1
00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:04,440
Speaker 1: Hello, friends, and welcome back to Behind the Bastards, the

2
00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:06,600
Speaker 1: show where we tell you everything you don't know about

3
00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:09,039
Speaker 1: the worst people in all of history. I'm your host,

4
00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,280
Speaker 1: Robert Evans, and this week my co host is Anna Hasnia,

5
00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:17,880
Speaker 1: producer extraordinaire, co host of the podcast Ethnically Ambiguous and

6
00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:21,959
Speaker 1: all around woman about Town. Anna, Today we are talking

7
00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:28,120
Speaker 1: about Harvey Weinstein. What. Yeah, I knew. Yes, my my

8
00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,319
Speaker 1: guests for this show come in cold, but this is

9
00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:33,640
Speaker 1: a case that it is impossible to come in entirely

10
00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,199
Speaker 1: cold on because his whole saga has been one of

11
00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,440
Speaker 1: the biggest stories in the last couple of years. Yeah.

12
00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:42,919
Speaker 1: I couldn't help myself. I had to read all those

13
00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,440
Speaker 1: Running Fair articles about him, some great articles. I'm a

14
00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,879
Speaker 1: huge black cute fan, so like I was deep in

15
00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,040
Speaker 1: there trying to get involved, a big fan of Israeli

16
00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,960
Speaker 1: aligned spy agencies. Yeah, what can I say, I'm a

17
00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,800
Speaker 1: massad head. Um. We'll be digging into some of that,

18
00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,040
Speaker 1: a lot of that. Actually, just as a heads up,

19
00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,000
Speaker 1: this is going to be a two part of episodes,

20
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:05,399
Speaker 1: So if you're one of those people who hates the

21
00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,399
Speaker 1: number two, you should be aware of that. Um. It

22
00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,280
Speaker 1: just wounded up being a lot longer in terms of

23
00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,440
Speaker 1: research than we had anticipated. It's one of those things

24
00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:15,800
Speaker 1: where every time I would finish reading an article and

25
00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,720
Speaker 1: set down to write, two new ones would pop up.

26
00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,120
Speaker 1: There's just so much on this case. I would go

27
00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,000
Speaker 1: so far as to say I can't imagine one person's

28
00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,840
Speaker 1: crimes being better reported than Weinstein's have. But it does

29
00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:30,920
Speaker 1: mean that there's a lot to talk about. So yeah,

30
00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,160
Speaker 1: we'll be dropping the second part of this on Thursday. UM.

31
00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,920
Speaker 1: I just kind of wanted to get what is your

32
00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:41,840
Speaker 1: understanding of the culpability of the people around Harvey Weinstein. Obviously,

33
00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,639
Speaker 1: Mr Weinstein has been accused at this point of dozens

34
00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,400
Speaker 1: of sexual assaults, multiple rapes, UH, spanning a period of

35
00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,160
Speaker 1: time from the nineties seventies until just a couple of

36
00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:55,120
Speaker 1: years ago, UM, and probably going on before and after that,

37
00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:57,720
Speaker 1: to be entirely honest, But what's your understanding of the

38
00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,200
Speaker 1: guilt of sort of the people around him? UM. I

39
00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:05,640
Speaker 1: do believe um his company with his brother was aware

40
00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,440
Speaker 1: of his behavior and use a lot of the resources

41
00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,440
Speaker 1: to cover it up. I don't think his wife knew

42
00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,480
Speaker 1: too much because I believe they lived somewhat separate lives

43
00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,520
Speaker 1: because people I feel like in that sort of industry,

44
00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,200
Speaker 1: we're so high up. You know, they spend a lot

45
00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,200
Speaker 1: of time traveling, moving around, and you know they have

46
00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,800
Speaker 1: busy lives and not a lot overlaps um. And I

47
00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:27,520
Speaker 1: think he he had a lot of money and power

48
00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,640
Speaker 1: to cover up a lot of things. So I do

49
00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:32,959
Speaker 1: think people knew, But I think it's also one of

50
00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:34,600
Speaker 1: those things where you just don't touch it because you

51
00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,359
Speaker 1: want to protect your own like interests, you know what

52
00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,280
Speaker 1: I mean. That's exactly in fact what we're going to

53
00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:41,200
Speaker 1: be talking about today. So for those of you who

54
00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,000
Speaker 1: are a little bit less up to date on things,

55
00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:45,000
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna give a brief overview the case. In

56
00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,600
Speaker 1: October of last year, the New York Times and The

57
00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:49,720
Speaker 1: New York Are both started publishing what would become a

58
00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,720
Speaker 1: long series of articles about sexual assaults by Mr Weinstein. Initially,

59
00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,079
Speaker 1: more than a dozen women accused him of sexual harassment

60
00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:00,160
Speaker 1: and assault. After the first New York Times article, more

61
00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,880
Speaker 1: and more accusations came coming in, including accusations of rape.

62
00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,239
Speaker 1: As of the recording of this podcast, at least eighty

63
00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,240
Speaker 1: five women have come forward with accusations uh he was

64
00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,760
Speaker 1: fired almost immediately from his job at the company that

65
00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,200
Speaker 1: bore his name, and he's just turned himself into the NYPD.

66
00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:17,760
Speaker 1: Which one of the things I thought was interesting about

67
00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,480
Speaker 1: him turning himself in is he was pictured with three books,

68
00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,600
Speaker 1: um which he was there for like two hours. You

69
00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,160
Speaker 1: don't bring three books to read to court where you're

70
00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,200
Speaker 1: waiting to be arraigned. So he's holding a number of books,

71
00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:32,320
Speaker 1: one of which was a biography of the director Elliott

72
00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,880
Speaker 1: kazan Um and I suspect he was trying to like

73
00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,040
Speaker 1: signal a message by the books he was carrying, because

74
00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:42,920
Speaker 1: kazan is or was a very popular and would regarded

75
00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,520
Speaker 1: director in like the forties and fifties whose career was

76
00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,680
Speaker 1: derailed by the Red Scare. He was a member of

77
00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:49,840
Speaker 1: the Communist Party. He was like taken in by the

78
00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,560
Speaker 1: House an American Activities Committee any named names, which like

79
00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,240
Speaker 1: further disgraced him. And so this biography is like someone

80
00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,920
Speaker 1: looking trying to evaluate his legacy now and sort of

81
00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,200
Speaker 1: demon because he made all these great movies and like

82
00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,600
Speaker 1: it's a tragedy that he was railroaded by this moral

83
00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,160
Speaker 1: movement that came around and wound up in the long

84
00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:13,160
Speaker 1: sweep of history being seen as like horribly immoral, which

85
00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,760
Speaker 1: is clearly how Weinstein views himself. That's his hope is

86
00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:18,760
Speaker 1: that he's going to get I think he's signaling by

87
00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,080
Speaker 1: carrying this book into court that in thirty or forty years,

88
00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:23,480
Speaker 1: people will look at me as a genius who was

89
00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:27,800
Speaker 1: unfairly railroaded by a movement that yeah, yeah, that's the message.

90
00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,039
Speaker 1: He's right. Why else would you carry that book? Would

91
00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,480
Speaker 1: argue not the same thing. Well, no, And also like

92
00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:37,800
Speaker 1: one of the things about it that is, like Eliah Kazan,

93
00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,640
Speaker 1: you can like say what you want about the morality

94
00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,320
Speaker 1: of turning in people during the Red Scare, but he

95
00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,560
Speaker 1: was like an actual creative person who made art. And

96
00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:47,680
Speaker 1: it's kind of the same thing with Roman Polanski. Like

97
00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,880
Speaker 1: Roman Polanski you can say, you know, the crimes he

98
00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:53,960
Speaker 1: committed weren't worth the movies we got out of him,

99
00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,159
Speaker 1: but he made movies. Weinstein was never anything but like

100
00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,640
Speaker 1: the money guy, Like he was good at picking scripts

101
00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:01,320
Speaker 1: and good it being like, oh yeah, I figured, like

102
00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,640
Speaker 1: this guy might be famous, but he didn't make any

103
00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:05,719
Speaker 1: of the stuff that he's famous for, So like that's

104
00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,480
Speaker 1: but I feel like this guy in fifty years. The

105
00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,520
Speaker 1: most notable thing about him in the annals of history

106
00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,960
Speaker 1: is that his the accusations against him, sparked this movement.

107
00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:17,040
Speaker 1: That's what he's going to be remembered for it. He's

108
00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,440
Speaker 1: gonna be remembered for anything he did as a producer,

109
00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,599
Speaker 1: not in the long span of time. Um. What a

110
00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:25,839
Speaker 1: piece of ship. He's a real piece of shit. Um.

111
00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,240
Speaker 1: And that's kind of why when we started working on

112
00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,160
Speaker 1: this episode, I thought it was going to be more

113
00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:35,920
Speaker 1: of a dive into Weinstein's life and uh, everything he'd

114
00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,159
Speaker 1: done and sort of cut it apart piece by piece

115
00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,560
Speaker 1: like that. But the more I've read about him, he's

116
00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,400
Speaker 1: not an interesting guy. Like he's a bastard, But he's

117
00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:47,359
Speaker 1: not an interesting bastard. He's a dull, gross, boring, little

118
00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:49,159
Speaker 1: puddle of a man. I feel like, you can't be

119
00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,840
Speaker 1: that interesting if you're that interested in like raping women. Yeah,

120
00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,240
Speaker 1: there's just not much to say about him other than

121
00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,480
Speaker 1: the crimes he committed, and a lot has been said

122
00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,719
Speaker 1: about that, um and so. And I also think this

123
00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,520
Speaker 1: is a case where he's going to get as much

124
00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:08,120
Speaker 1: justice as a rich, probable rapist can get in our society. Yeah,

125
00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,760
Speaker 1: he'll be playing tennis in prison. He'll be playing tennis

126
00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,120
Speaker 1: in prison. But also like, it's not like Cosby where

127
00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,440
Speaker 1: he's getting caught right as he's too old to really

128
00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,000
Speaker 1: understand what's going on, and he's not losing any productive years.

129
00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,200
Speaker 1: Harvey probably would have had another ten twenty years running

130
00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,279
Speaker 1: a studio or you know, running his company if he

131
00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,840
Speaker 1: hadn't gotten caught. So he's his career is being cut short,

132
00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,320
Speaker 1: and that's a good thing. This is all along with

133
00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,960
Speaker 1: me saying this episode of Behind the Bastards is not

134
00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,920
Speaker 1: going to focus on Harvey Weinstein. He's not the bastard

135
00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,640
Speaker 1: that I think we're interested in right here, because when

136
00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:42,960
Speaker 1: you read all the articles that have been published in

137
00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,440
Speaker 1: the the interviews with everybody who was around him, it

138
00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,480
Speaker 1: becomes clear that it took dozens, if not hundreds of people,

139
00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,880
Speaker 1: um and maybe even more to make his behavior possible.

140
00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,440
Speaker 1: Um So, my initial idea with this podcast was to

141
00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,440
Speaker 1: sort of catalog all the different people who helped him

142
00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:02,039
Speaker 1: hurt so many other people, um and it it. Over

143
00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:03,480
Speaker 1: the course of my research, I did find a lot

144
00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,520
Speaker 1: of enablers, like buildings filled with people who made this possible.

145
00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:08,719
Speaker 1: But I also found a sort of foggy layer of

146
00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,400
Speaker 1: doubt floating over everybody involved. That makes me kind of

147
00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:14,640
Speaker 1: uncomfortable and queasy. So it's one of I keep going

148
00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,720
Speaker 1: back and forth about whether or not this episode is

149
00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,240
Speaker 1: a good idea, but we're just going to dive into

150
00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:22,440
Speaker 1: it now. Um. That's interesting. It feels like when you're

151
00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:26,280
Speaker 1: that powerful, like God, the concept of power is one

152
00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,720
Speaker 1: of the most terrifying things you really think about it.

153
00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:31,680
Speaker 1: It almost feels like just doing something very normal, like

154
00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,480
Speaker 1: going to get coffee and and just hanging with your

155
00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,400
Speaker 1: friends is just it's not good enough anymore. Like once

156
00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:39,760
Speaker 1: you've lived that life, like the stakes have to be

157
00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,080
Speaker 1: raised and now it's you know, now, you know, for fun,

158
00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,000
Speaker 1: I invite women up to a hotel room and try

159
00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,040
Speaker 1: and get them to watch me shower naked. It's like,

160
00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,040
Speaker 1: so you're thinking about the the impact that the power

161
00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:56,120
Speaker 1: had on him, and I guess what I'm thinking about everyone? Yeah,

162
00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,080
Speaker 1: is that That's what I'm I'm interested in here. There's

163
00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,840
Speaker 1: a really famous Edmond Burke quote about the Nazis where

164
00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:03,840
Speaker 1: he says that you know, all that's necessary for evil

165
00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,200
Speaker 1: to thrive as for goodman to do nothing, And that's

166
00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,160
Speaker 1: a really famous quote. But I think that's almost comforting

167
00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,760
Speaker 1: to imagine that terrible people succeed because good people don't

168
00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:15,960
Speaker 1: do anything. The reality that you see in the Weinstein

169
00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,760
Speaker 1: case is that he succeeded for so long because a

170
00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,800
Speaker 1: lot of good people were willing to help him and

171
00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:26,640
Speaker 1: no new to an extent what they were doing. So, uh,

172
00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:31,360
Speaker 1: let's dig again. Harvey Weinstein was born on March nineteenth two.

173
00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,480
Speaker 1: He and his brother Bob co founded Miramax. Bob has

174
00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,640
Speaker 1: also been accused of sexual harassment. Together, they produced a

175
00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,560
Speaker 1: number of famous movies, including pulp fiction Goodwill, Hunting, The

176
00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,320
Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings in the King's Speech. In total

177
00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,840
Speaker 1: movies Harvey produced garnered more than three hundred Oscar nominations,

178
00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:51,720
Speaker 1: which is a lot of Oscar nominations. His earliest recorded

179
00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,280
Speaker 1: victim was Hope ex Dia More sometime in the seventies.

180
00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,280
Speaker 1: She was an employee of a concert production company that

181
00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,280
Speaker 1: he ran. At the time, they were doing a job

182
00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,040
Speaker 1: in Manhattan and staying in a hotel. Harvey allegedly told

183
00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:04,720
Speaker 1: her there'd been a booking mix up and they'd have

184
00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,480
Speaker 1: to share a room. Then he allegedly raped her. His

185
00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,640
Speaker 1: most recent reported assault was in March fifteen, when he

186
00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:16,600
Speaker 1: allegedly groped Ambro Battlana. That's the bird's eye view of

187
00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,600
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein's career as both a production guy and a rapist.

188
00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,560
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So in between those two assaults, possibly before

189
00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:27,280
Speaker 1: and after, there were dozens and dozens of other women.

190
00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,840
Speaker 1: Some claim they were groped, some claim they were raped.

191
00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,000
Speaker 1: The allegations of Lauren Seven are pretty standard. She's a

192
00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,840
Speaker 1: journalist who claims Weinstein lured her into an empty restaurant

193
00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,280
Speaker 1: he part owned and then hit on her. She says

194
00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,319
Speaker 1: that when she turned him down, he put his body

195
00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,040
Speaker 1: between her and the exit, told her to quote stand

196
00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,199
Speaker 1: there and shut up end quote, and then masturbated into

197
00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,600
Speaker 1: a potted plant. As you do, as you do because

198
00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,400
Speaker 1: one a woman turns you down. Yeah. So Arman and

199
00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,320
Speaker 1: Miriy was the manager of that restaurant at the time

200
00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,920
Speaker 1: when this happened, and when Seven came forward with her

201
00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,000
Speaker 1: story last October, he came forward to because Will he

202
00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,600
Speaker 1: hadn't seen that incident. He realized that he seems Harvey

203
00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,199
Speaker 1: do something similar. Um, it was a quote from him.

204
00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,440
Speaker 1: What I remember about this incident is that my sux

205
00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,160
Speaker 1: chef came into my office, furious telling me that quote

206
00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,560
Speaker 1: some fat fox saying he's an owner he didn't know

207
00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:16,320
Speaker 1: the name, had come into the kitchen with a woman

208
00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:18,040
Speaker 1: and shoved a hundred dollar bill at him and told

209
00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:22,360
Speaker 1: him to get out. So yeah, so even in kitchens

210
00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,400
Speaker 1: with people around, Yeah, yeah, yeah, God, Marvy, people cook,

211
00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,559
Speaker 1: people have to eat that food. Oh, it's about to

212
00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:30,960
Speaker 1: get where if that if that's if that's what's kicking

213
00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:36,280
Speaker 1: you out about this story, it's about to get even worse. Um. So,

214
00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,160
Speaker 1: according to Armand Armand hears this from the chef. The

215
00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:40,679
Speaker 1: chef is like, yeah, this fat fuck just gave me

216
00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:42,600
Speaker 1: a hundred bucks and shoved me out of the kitchen.

217
00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,720
Speaker 1: So he goes back into the kitchen with the chef

218
00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:50,520
Speaker 1: and he witnessed Weinstein quote fixing his belt. Um and

219
00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:52,840
Speaker 1: then said quote. The chef picks up a pot that

220
00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,559
Speaker 1: had been placed on the stove. It had been defiled.

221
00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:59,680
Speaker 1: It was so bizarre, we couldn't believe it happened. He like,

222
00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:04,760
Speaker 1: is he just did a pot and a potted plant

223
00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:09,439
Speaker 1: at the same restaurant. You. I hope they burn that

224
00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:14,440
Speaker 1: pot because that is the most unsanitary. I feel like

225
00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,520
Speaker 1: you burned the restaurant at this point, because if there

226
00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:21,640
Speaker 1: are two stories of him ejaculating into random objects at

227
00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:26,760
Speaker 1: this restaurant he owned, he came on every square, is

228
00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:31,319
Speaker 1: that is that come? This place is covered, These tablecloths

229
00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:37,040
Speaker 1: were black this morning. Everything. Yeah, I'm sorry. What's the

230
00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:41,480
Speaker 1: restaurant's name? Oh jeez, I I just forgever. I don't

231
00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:47,200
Speaker 1: think it's walk by operational anymore. So that's kind of

232
00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,800
Speaker 1: a good microcosm of the sort of things he got

233
00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:51,480
Speaker 1: up to. But it also gives you an idea of

234
00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,280
Speaker 1: how many people are involved when you start talking about complicity,

235
00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:58,680
Speaker 1: because is that sous chef a little complicit that particular case.

236
00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,080
Speaker 1: It doesn't sounds like it, because Harvey was just shoving

237
00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:02,920
Speaker 1: a money at him and saying, get the funk out

238
00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:04,640
Speaker 1: of here, right, But he if he didn't know that

239
00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:07,559
Speaker 1: the woman was dragged in there, because you don't really

240
00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,680
Speaker 1: know in a situation exactly exactly, it's really unclear, and

241
00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,000
Speaker 1: Armand said something like that, It's like I didn't say

242
00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,880
Speaker 1: anything about it because I didn't know anything about the

243
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,640
Speaker 1: woman involved. I had no idea what was going on.

244
00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:20,880
Speaker 1: It was just some rich guy paying a masturbate in

245
00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:25,560
Speaker 1: a pot that he technically owned, So yeah, it's a

246
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,120
Speaker 1: little messed up. Armand does claim that after Lauren sibbons

247
00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,439
Speaker 1: plant story went viral, Weinstein called him and asked him

248
00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,480
Speaker 1: to deny that he'd ever done anything like that. Of course,

249
00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,800
Speaker 1: by that point, the Harvey Weinstein name was as muddy

250
00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,679
Speaker 1: as name's get. Armand refused to do as he asked. Um,

251
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:42,480
Speaker 1: But that was the time when it was easy to

252
00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,240
Speaker 1: say that Harvey Weinstein because at that point he was

253
00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,680
Speaker 1: on his way down exactly, which is nothing against Armand

254
00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:49,120
Speaker 1: maybe he would have done the right thing if he'd

255
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,000
Speaker 1: known something was wrong in the moment. I don't know

256
00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,520
Speaker 1: the guy, but what is important is that for more

257
00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:57,200
Speaker 1: than thirty thirty years, almost everyone that Harvey Weinstein asked

258
00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:59,599
Speaker 1: to keep his secret was happy to help him do it.

259
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:04,040
Speaker 1: David J. Pecker is the CEO of American Media, Inc.

260
00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,240
Speaker 1: They are you know, okay, what does that mean? You're

261
00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,560
Speaker 1: with him? I'm familiar that he's also on Trump's team

262
00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:12,880
Speaker 1: and has some friends in Saudi Arabia. He's got friends

263
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,120
Speaker 1: in Saudi Arabbi. He's on Trump's team, and he is

264
00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,959
Speaker 1: American Media, Inc. Is the company that's responsible for a

265
00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,559
Speaker 1: number of magazines, including the National Inquirer, which it just

266
00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:25,880
Speaker 1: so happens that the studio we're in has a lot

267
00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:27,840
Speaker 1: of issues of The Inquirer, and the one I'm looking

268
00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,040
Speaker 1: at right now, the big title of the story is

269
00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:35,200
Speaker 1: Exhumed John Bennet's Body. Now, so that's they're classy people

270
00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,839
Speaker 1: to the Inquirer. Yeah. So David J. Pecker is the

271
00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,000
Speaker 1: CEO of American Media, Inc. Uh. They own the National Choir,

272
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,120
Speaker 1: Weekly World News, etcetera. Harvey Weinstein and Pecker have been

273
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,839
Speaker 1: good friends for years. Their friendship was so deep that

274
00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,439
Speaker 1: Harvey became known as an f o P or friend

275
00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:57,560
Speaker 1: of Pecker, which they're not not great at acronyms. Uh.

276
00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,000
Speaker 1: Itsually have been friend of Penis, fread of Pain. I

277
00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,920
Speaker 1: mean that's basically what friend of Pecker means, friend of David, Like, like,

278
00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,839
Speaker 1: why why white Pecker? Um? Yeah, that's a status he

279
00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,200
Speaker 1: apparently shared with President Trump. Uh. And when you are

280
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,959
Speaker 1: a friend of Pecker, you get special treatment from not

281
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,719
Speaker 1: just The Inquirer and the Weekly World News, but the

282
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,400
Speaker 1: whole tabloid industry. Um. So I'll be listing all the

283
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:25,560
Speaker 1: sources for this this podcast on our website, this info

284
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:27,960
Speaker 1: right now, comes from a New York Times article entitled

285
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:32,880
Speaker 1: Weinstein's complicity machine. Um quote. American media was known to

286
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,600
Speaker 1: sometimes help out allies and trouble with a strategy known

287
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,600
Speaker 1: in tabloid newsrooms as catch and kill, acquiring exclusive rights

288
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,640
Speaker 1: to damaging stories and then not publishing them. So basically

289
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,200
Speaker 1: like this is the first in the clearest case of

290
00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,520
Speaker 1: another person involved who's definitely a bastard, because fucking pecker.

291
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,160
Speaker 1: That's not helping Harvey for money. It's not helping him

292
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,560
Speaker 1: because you're afraid he'll funk up your career. It's helping

293
00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:57,120
Speaker 1: him because he's your buddy and you want him to

294
00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:01,000
Speaker 1: keep his sexual assaults under wrap. Rodan Pharaoh and The

295
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,800
Speaker 1: New Yorker laid out a very active relationship between the

296
00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,880
Speaker 1: Inquirer and Weinstein. He talked to a woman named Elizabeth Avalon,

297
00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,920
Speaker 1: who is the former wife of Robert Rodriguez. Rodriguez left

298
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,480
Speaker 1: her for Rose McGowan. UM, So obviously there's understandable kind

299
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:18,040
Speaker 1: of bad blood between the two ladies. Uh. Rose claims

300
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,080
Speaker 1: that Harvey Weinstein raped her in his hotel room during

301
00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:25,680
Speaker 1: the Sundance Festival. UM and inquires reporter figured Evalon might

302
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:27,560
Speaker 1: have some dirt on Rose McGowan, and of course it

303
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:29,960
Speaker 1: was his job as an inquiry reporter to dig up

304
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,440
Speaker 1: dirt on anyone accusing anything of Harvey Weinstein to try

305
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,600
Speaker 1: to discredit them. So he started calling Avalon. He called

306
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,520
Speaker 1: her over and over and over again. Uh. And then

307
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:39,920
Speaker 1: he started reaching out to people she knew, like friends

308
00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,560
Speaker 1: and family, um, just kind of harassing them until she

309
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:46,080
Speaker 1: agreed for an interview. So Avalanne sits down for an

310
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,720
Speaker 1: interview with this reporter and he repeatedly pushes her to

311
00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:52,440
Speaker 1: say bad things about Rose McGowan. Um. She wanted to

312
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:54,080
Speaker 1: make sure that the call was off the record and

313
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,400
Speaker 1: only for deep background, and the reporters said that it was,

314
00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,160
Speaker 1: but he recorded the whole thing and afterwards he handed

315
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,520
Speaker 1: according to a mayor Can Media's chief content officer, Dylan Howard,

316
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,920
Speaker 1: who emailed it to Harvey Weinstein and said, quote, I

317
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:10,560
Speaker 1: have something all caps amazing. Eventually she laid into Rose

318
00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:14,120
Speaker 1: pretty hard, which again that's a that's American Media's chief

319
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:18,120
Speaker 1: content officer talking. Weinstein replied to him, quote, this is

320
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,480
Speaker 1: the killer, especially if my fingerprints are just the letter

321
00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:25,120
Speaker 1: are not on this end? Quote. Howard assured him that

322
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:28,480
Speaker 1: the fingerprints weren't on it and said, this conversation is

323
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,200
Speaker 1: all caps recorded. Okay, I'm sorry he wrote just a

324
00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:36,560
Speaker 1: letter R. Yeah, my fingerprints are not on this. That's

325
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:41,320
Speaker 1: more yet the whole word fingerprints and but you don't

326
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,240
Speaker 1: have time for the R. That's stupid. I know. There's

327
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:47,960
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons to hate the man. Um Howard's

328
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,320
Speaker 1: definitely culpable here um Like, that's that's gross behavior and

329
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,200
Speaker 1: for what it's worth, Like Avalon during the call said

330
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,880
Speaker 1: some not pleasant things about Rose McGowan because understandably, like

331
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,600
Speaker 1: they had, they had a history. She has expressed a

332
00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,880
Speaker 1: lot of regret about it and is obviously as solidarity

333
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,880
Speaker 1: for her for the whole being horribly abused by Harvey

334
00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,719
Speaker 1: Weinstein thing. So yeah, that's that's like, that's sucked up

335
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,280
Speaker 1: for a lot of reasons, because you're not just trying

336
00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,840
Speaker 1: to bury the accusations of a woman who was harmed.

337
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:20,320
Speaker 1: You're like playing on somebody's heartbreak and pain in order

338
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,120
Speaker 1: to like it's just it's almost impossible to like look

339
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,080
Speaker 1: at something like a sexual assault and be like how

340
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,159
Speaker 1: can I make this worse? But use a bunch of

341
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,200
Speaker 1: women and dry them out, and then I hope it

342
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:35,240
Speaker 1: helps protect a man who yeah trash. Yeah, it's almost

343
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,600
Speaker 1: like a work of art in terms of being shitty

344
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,160
Speaker 1: people like it took a lot of garbage all coming

345
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,080
Speaker 1: together to make this landfill. So yeah, Pecker and Howard

346
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,439
Speaker 1: are both pieces of crap, as well as the reporter

347
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,800
Speaker 1: who did that hatchet job. I feel like that's that's

348
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,359
Speaker 1: also a bad guy. They're gonna be a lot of

349
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,560
Speaker 1: terrible reporters in this story. But so we're already up

350
00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,880
Speaker 1: to at least three or four other complicit people. Plus

351
00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,960
Speaker 1: was this reporter someone who worked for like Inquiry, Yeah,

352
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:05,960
Speaker 1: it was an Inquirer reporter? Would she ever talk to

353
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,600
Speaker 1: an inquire reporter? Because he kept calling her family and friends.

354
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,000
Speaker 1: So she finally was like, fine, talk if you won't

355
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:14,800
Speaker 1: talk to anyone else, I will talk to you like that.

356
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,760
Speaker 1: That's that's like where it got um. So yeah, there

357
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,560
Speaker 1: there are just when we're talking about just the press,

358
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,600
Speaker 1: there are dozens of people implicated in keeping Harvey's secrets.

359
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,920
Speaker 1: And we're going to get into another one of those

360
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,160
Speaker 1: stories in a minute, but right now, we gotta sell

361
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:36,040
Speaker 1: some stuff. You like stuff right hugely. You got wallets

362
00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:41,280
Speaker 1: and money, anyway, go grab some money, Grab as much

363
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,520
Speaker 1: money as you can and then tune into these ads.

364
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,960
Speaker 1: We're back and we are talking about Harvey Weinstein, or

365
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,280
Speaker 1: rather the people who enabled him to do the things

366
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,520
Speaker 1: that he did. All of the other bastards and the

367
00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:02,240
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein story. We just talked about two guys, Pecker

368
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:07,000
Speaker 1: and Howard, who both ran the company that owned the

369
00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:11,120
Speaker 1: National Inquirer, and the Inquirer essentially helped dick up dirt

370
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,359
Speaker 1: on Weinstein's accusers. Now we're gonna talk about another story

371
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,280
Speaker 1: in that vein. UM. In two thousand fourteen, Emily Nestor

372
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,040
Speaker 1: was working as a temporary employee for the Weinstein Company.

373
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:22,880
Speaker 1: She'd been there a day when Weinstein promised to help

374
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,840
Speaker 1: her career if she fucked him. Um. Well, yeah, the

375
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,960
Speaker 1: old classic I'll help your career if you fuck me.

376
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,600
Speaker 1: I mean he waited a good three or four hours,

377
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,719
Speaker 1: which is a lot of restraint for Rvy Weinstein. Uh.

378
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,560
Speaker 1: She turned him down. Um, and then he made her

379
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,080
Speaker 1: keep turning him down for more than an hour. Um.

380
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,040
Speaker 1: Emily complained to her coworkers and they did the right thing.

381
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,840
Speaker 1: They reported it to management in a formal complaint thing.

382
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,399
Speaker 1: And this is the company he owned. Just means nothing. Really, well,

383
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,760
Speaker 1: there's other people. It's a big company, like there are

384
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,040
Speaker 1: other people and as well, we'll get into there was

385
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,119
Speaker 1: some resistance from within the corporates structure to Harvey, like

386
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,159
Speaker 1: the company bore his name, but he was not in

387
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:06,800
Speaker 1: absolutely was too big a company to be an absolute

388
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:11,000
Speaker 1: control of UM, although obviously he had a lot of power. Anyway,

389
00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 1: other people reported a formal complaint. Thing is made, and

390
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,200
Speaker 1: eventually the matter does get to Harvey. Uh. He invited

391
00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,720
Speaker 1: Nestor to breakfast right after that, and I'm going to

392
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 1: quote from another Running Pharaoh New Yorker article here. Throughout

393
00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,640
Speaker 1: the breakfast, she said, Weinstein interrupted their conversation to yell

394
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:28,879
Speaker 1: into his cell phone and raged over a spat that

395
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,400
Speaker 1: Amy Adams, a star in the Weinstein movie Big Eyes,

396
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,440
Speaker 1: was having in the press. Afterward, Weinstein told Nestor to

397
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,320
Speaker 1: keep an eye in the news cycle, which he promised

398
00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:38,680
Speaker 1: would be spun in his favor. Later in the day,

399
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,520
Speaker 1: there were indeed negative news items about his opponents, and

400
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,760
Speaker 1: Weinstein stopped by Nestor's desk to be sure she'd seen them.

401
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,359
Speaker 1: By that point, Nestor recalled, I was very afraid of him,

402
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,199
Speaker 1: and I knew how well connected he was and how

403
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:51,879
Speaker 1: if I pissed him off then I could never have

404
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:56,360
Speaker 1: a career in that industry. That's heartbreaking. Well, yeah, it's

405
00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:02,080
Speaker 1: it's heartbreaking, And I wonder how knowledgeable the people who

406
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 1: are so like I feel like a guy like Howard,

407
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,000
Speaker 1: who owns American or who who's the CEO of American Media,

408
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,960
Speaker 1: has to know with this because because obviously if he's

409
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,360
Speaker 1: helping his buddy out with this, he's used his organs

410
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,960
Speaker 1: of press for the same sort of purposes. He knows

411
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:17,680
Speaker 1: what this looks like on a human level, and he

412
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:19,920
Speaker 1: probably gets off on the power of that too. I

413
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,720
Speaker 1: don't know about a guy like Howard who directs the

414
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:24,920
Speaker 1: reporter to like find the dirt. I don't know about

415
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,600
Speaker 1: the reporter like if they really like maybe you don't

416
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,199
Speaker 1: let yourself think about it, like what you're up. I'm

417
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 1: sure there's some level of disassociation from what you're really

418
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 1: doing in order to get your job done. But even so, like,

419
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 1: I couldn't imagine working a job like that. It just

420
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,159
Speaker 1: seems like so like you would be dead on the inside,

421
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,960
Speaker 1: so crushing to know that what you're doing, you're interviewing

422
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,879
Speaker 1: someone not even for an article. You're viewing someone so

423
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 1: that some like greasy fuck in a suit can exercise

424
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 1: his power over what twenty year old woman who has

425
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,159
Speaker 1: a one billionth of the wealth that he has, So

426
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,200
Speaker 1: this guy can feel powerful in front of her, Like

427
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 1: that's that's what you're putting in eight hour days for?

428
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,680
Speaker 1: Is so some dirt bag you've never met can feel powerful?

429
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 1: Like how do you do that? And like is that

430
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:18,639
Speaker 1: when it comes to like what would be justice is

431
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 1: the fact that you had to be that guy and

432
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,919
Speaker 1: probably have to drink being that guy away every night

433
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 1: of your life. Is that punishment? I don't know, I

434
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 1: wonder or I don't know. Maybe they just hire like

435
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 1: a group of like sociopaths who don't feel empathy to

436
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,720
Speaker 1: work for them. Like in the interview, they just ask

437
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 1: you a series of questions to kind of nail down

438
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 1: the type of person you are and if you're willing

439
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,119
Speaker 1: to do the work that needs to be done to

440
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 1: get the information that needs to be gone. Well, and

441
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 1: as I look at this National Enquirer article in front

442
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 1: of me, one of the other article titles is I'm

443
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 1: not your real father. Harry Prince Charles drops a wedding bombs. Actually,

444
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 1: if you look deep into that, there are some points

445
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 1: they make that are quite convincing. So I mean it

446
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 1: is one of those things though, like obviously anyone these

447
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 1: these people were calling them reporters, but you should put

448
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 1: quotation marks around the word reporter because they work for

449
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,439
Speaker 1: the Inquirer. But like, I don't know, maybe maybe part

450
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 1: of the mistake is with me and feeling like the

451
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 1: fucking ship in these rags was ever kind of lighthearted,

452
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,119
Speaker 1: like you think about like, oh, bat boy, you know

453
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,920
Speaker 1: they're talking about cookie fun like it's that was my

454
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 1: mom's explanation to me as a kid when I would

455
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 1: see these in the sane things and I'd be like, Mom,

456
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 1: is Saddam Hussein really going to murder our president? And

457
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 1: you think, no, it's the National inquir everything, and it

458
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 1: is a lie. Why does it exist because people think

459
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 1: it's fun to read? Yeah, now, I guess. Yeah. When

460
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 1: I was young, they used to have a lot of

461
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 1: like Catwoman on Yeah, that would be wacky stuff. Yeah, yeah,

462
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 1: fucking moon Nazis um So Nestor you know, took a

463
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 1: settlement and left the company and didn't didn't pursue the

464
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 1: matter any further because she was like, if I make

465
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 1: a deal about this, then Harvey Weinstein is going to

466
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 1: drag my name through the mud and the press. Right

467
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: did they make her taken or sign an Ndia? Yeah,

468
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 1: I'm sure they did. This story is full of India's.

469
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 1: Like almost everybody that you're going to run into he

470
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: had a settlement or even who's speaking out now had

471
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: an India at one point, Like I, I guess it's

472
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 1: one of those things that at this point the Indias

473
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: aren't worth that much. But they clearly held the damn

474
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: together for a while. Yeah. Um So, Weinstein had with

475
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: The New York Times described as a network of friendly journalists,

476
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 1: gossip columnists, magazine writers, editors and authors that he knew

477
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 1: would help him by publishing articles that attacked his enemies.

478
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 1: These aren't are all all through the National Enquirer. They're

479
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 1: not all through Howard Like he he's he's a high

480
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 1: placed guy in the film industry. So he's dealing with

481
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 1: press all the time because that's an important part of

482
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 1: his legitimate job, is like building up interest and whatnot

483
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 1: in the projects he's working on. Um So, he just

484
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: knew a lot of people that he could call and

485
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 1: plant stories to like if he if he wants to

486
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 1: make someone look bad, whether because they're accusing him or

487
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 1: because he just wants to punish them. Well, he's got

488
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 1: probably hundreds of guys on the line, and you have

489
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:00,439
Speaker 1: to wonder how many of them even knew what they

490
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 1: were a part of. Like Harvey Weinstein calls you and

491
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 1: he's got a legitimate scoop about another famous person. Do

492
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: you think, why is he leaking this to me? Or

493
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 1: do you just run with a story? Hobby's on the line. Yeah,

494
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 1: Harvey's on the line. He's got another scoop about Rose McGowan.

495
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 1: People want to read about Rose McGowan doing something like

496
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 1: maybe yeah, crazy somewhere, but not whatever he's made up. Yeah,

497
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: So do you even like? That's where the complicity gets

498
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: hard for me? Like, it's easy in a case like

499
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 1: the the email exchange between the Inquirer guys that we

500
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: talked about, where it's someone being like, go after this person,

501
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 1: get dirt on Rose McGowan, bring it back so that

502
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: we have something to hold over her head. That seems clear.

503
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: But a lot of these there's probably people who are

504
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 1: right now journalists and gossip writers who are just figuring like,

505
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 1: oh my god, how many of the stories that I

506
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 1: wrote based on scoops that here is people gave me

507
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 1: were part of this? And that's why I don't understand.

508
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: It's like, I mean, maybe I didn't know about it,

509
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: because I don't in my life, I have not ever

510
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 1: come across Harvey Weinstein outside of just knowing he's a

511
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 1: movie producer. But I don't understand how if anyone even

512
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 1: heard rumors about him being like a creep and a

513
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: rapist and just like overall power mongering psycho. I don't know.

514
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 1: It's hard for me to understand like not stepping away

515
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: and be like, oh, I've heard a lot of bad

516
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: things about this person, like maybe I shouldn't be involved.

517
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: And I guess that's what you're talking about. It's like

518
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: because I feel like if you're so far removed from him,

519
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: like you're working at a paper and Harvey calls and

520
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 1: these whatever, Yeah, yeah, like there's doesn't feel like he

521
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: could affect you that much. I mean, maybe he can,

522
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 1: but I feel like you should be able to just

523
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 1: step away and be like, you know what, this is

524
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 1: not a story I'm gonna work on, but maybe you

525
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: don't like He's not coming to you saying like, hey,

526
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: I need to make this lady look bad. Here's here's

527
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: some dirt on her. He's saying like, hey, you want

528
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,120
Speaker 1: a story, and as yeah, you're always like that's your job.

529
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 1: You're always short on stuff to write about. You're always

530
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: looking for the next thing to cover. This well connected

531
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: guy comes to you with a story. But even if

532
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: you've heard the rumors, I mean, but what are the

533
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: rumors you're hearing, they're they're probably not Harvey Weinstein's a rapist,

534
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: Especially if you're a male reporter, That's probably not what

535
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: you're hearing. You're hearing Harvey Weinstein's a womanizer. Harvey Weinstein's

536
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: an asshole with a temper. Maybe I'm just maybe I

537
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 1: just hate men. So I'm just out here. I'm not

538
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 1: trying to help anybody. Well, this story, this, this is

539
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: not a story that will increase your faith in men

540
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: or your faith in journalists. Um. So Weinstein owned a

541
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: publishing house. Uh. And one of the things you run

542
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 1: across in just sort of the stories of how he

543
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: would manipulate people is he offered and in some cases

544
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: gave shiploads of people book deals like that was a

545
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: common way if you were a reporter that he really

546
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 1: wanted to get to do some work for him, and

547
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: the work that was definitely going to be questionable. This

548
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 1: is how he would get over your professional scruples or

549
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 1: over your reticence to work with him. So, like, it's

550
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: one thing for Harvey to give you a call, uh

551
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: and be like, hey, I got this story about so

552
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: and so you maybe you write it. And it's another

553
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: thing for him to be like, I want you to

554
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: help me gather dirt on this person, which is what

555
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 1: happened to a New York Daily News columnist named A. J.

556
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: Bens Up. So Weinstein invited Ben's out to dinner in

557
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: West Hollywood and told him, in short, that he needed

558
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: help in keeping his mistress secret when he divorced his wife.

559
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 1: Benza was on board for this and recalled to The

560
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: New York Times that Harvey had said, quote, I could

561
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 1: supply your pr or that he said to Harvey. So

562
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: this is Harvey's like, Hey, I've got I'm divorcing my wife,

563
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:31,959
Speaker 1: but it's not set up yet. I've got a mistress.

564
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 1: I need to keep this ship on the down low.

565
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: And A J. Benza says to him I could supply

566
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:37,719
Speaker 1: your pr girls with a lot of gossip, a lot

567
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: of stories, and if people come at them with the

568
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: Harvey's having an affair story, they can barter. Mr Benza says,

569
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: Weinstein replied a J it's got to be good stories,

570
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: and a J said, don't you worry about it? So

571
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: that's like, that's how these conversations are apparently, so they're

572
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: basically like, hey, instead of publishing this, why don't you

573
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: look at this here? Wow? So it's a lot of like,

574
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: is red herring the correct Yeah? Yeah, I think that's

575
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: the correct term. So it's a lot of yeah. And

576
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: so he's finding people who are well connected because like

577
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: a guy like Benza, he knows what people in the

578
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: daily news, and he probably his friends at other rags

579
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: of similar so he knows, oh, this guy's working in

580
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: a story that might implicate Weinstein in an affair or

581
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: some other bad behavior. What if I promised to give

582
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 1: him two or three stories about somebody else, Like that's

583
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: the That's what Ben's is offering to do for Weinstein,

584
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: and that's how a lot of this gets done. Now.

585
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: Benza claims he didn't know about any of the rape

586
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: backs accusations or the sexual assaults, and that that's possible. Um,

587
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: most of the people in this story who enabled Weinstein

588
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: in one way or the other are folks like Ben's

589
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: that they're people whose defense to moral culpability is that

590
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: they just thought Harvey Weinstein was a gross person, not

591
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: a rapist. So and Ben's again, there was like a

592
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: book deal on the line, like that was that was

593
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: what Harvey was giving him, is he was like, I'm

594
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: gonna get you like a fucking book out of this,

595
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: which I can say when I think about like what

596
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: I would do in his situation, it's easy to say, like, no,

597
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: of course I wouldn't take that deal. But back before

598
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: I'd had a book deal, like part of me wonders,

599
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: if I just thought this guy was trying to keep

600
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: his affair and they're under wraps, maybe you do it.

601
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: Maybe you do it and you cringe and you tell

602
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: yourself that getting the book out will make it okay

603
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: because you've got something to say or what it would

604
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: always be this achiness in the back of your mind

605
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: thinking you didn't fully get it from your own worth. No,

606
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: And that's that's what I wonder with. And we'll talk

607
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: about ben Affleck and a little bit but about the

608
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: people who legitimately have to credit a lot of their

609
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: fame and success to Harvey Weinstein and they really is

610
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: like how they because a lot of them knew something

611
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: was up and didn't do it. And again, like is

612
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: there that feeling of like is that why Ben Affleck

613
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: has a terrible back tattoo and drinks too much because

614
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: he knows that he's he's a ben Affleck knows a

615
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: lot of things that are slowly killing him. Man. That

616
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: actually does make him a great candidate to play Batman

617
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: Dark Pass. Yeah, he might be the most appropriate casting

618
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: of Batman that we could have gotten poor Benny. Yeah,

619
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: well no, not not in any way, shape or form. Um. Okay,

620
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: now that we've talked about A. J. Benza, So yeah,

621
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: I don't know like what you're viewing on Benza's moral

622
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: culpability here, Like is that how gross is that? If

623
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: if he really just thought he was helping a man

624
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: hide an affair. I mean that's something I would not

625
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: be interested in. So it's hard for me to separate

626
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: my own like dislike of that kind of situation from him.

627
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: So that that's my problem, is like taking this book deal.

628
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: You know why you got that book deal. It's not

629
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: because you're the like someone wanted you because you're so

630
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: great at yeah you have this story or whatever. It's

631
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: because you helped a man cover up an affair. Like

632
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: that doesn't feel right to me, doesn't sit right. Okay,

633
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: what do you have any student loans? No? Okay? Did

634
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: you ever at some point was that like a thing

635
00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: that was that like a cross you had to bear? No?

636
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: I parents do well for themselves. Okay, sorry, I didn't

637
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: mean to get super I had a bunch of student

638
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: loans that were cleared off when I got a book deal. Um,

639
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: And so it was one of those things there was

640
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: like a there was obviously like a creative like that's

641
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: something I always wanted to have a book in the library.

642
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:16,959
Speaker 1: That was a huge thing for me from like a kid.

643
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: But it was also like I can get under the

644
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: weight of this crushing debt in one fell swoop if

645
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: I get someone to buy my book. I don't know

646
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: that Benza had something like that going on, but I

647
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: can see how that would be almost impossible to When

648
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: you put it that way, it's like, my that's what

649
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: I'm saying. It's like it's hard for me to put

650
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: myself in that person's position. So immediately I have this disdain,

651
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: like why would you do that? But of course I

652
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: don't know where that person's background is. I don't know

653
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: if he had a mother in the hospital. I don't

654
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: know anything about who he had. Maybe he had to

655
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: pay medical bills for someone or for himself, like I

656
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: I can say, I can say in a J benses defense,

657
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: and I don't know if he actually knew about the

658
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: Maybe he knew more than he says he did, but

659
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: if he didn't know about the assaults in the rapes,

660
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: I can imagine myself being in a situation where I

661
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 1: would help a creepy guy cover up an affair for

662
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: enough money to pay for my romantic partner to get

663
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: healthcare or whatever kind of ship, like deal with some

664
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: crippling Like I want to condemn him and like, to

665
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: an extent, you got it. Because Harvey Weinstein raped, does

666
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: his people? Probably um problem. It's like in the long run, though,

667
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: things that came out would weigh heavy on him, if

668
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: it must. He feels empathy, Yeah, he is. He does

669
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: work for the New York Daily News, so maybe he's

670
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: had the empathy burned out of him by this point. Um,

671
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: but I don't know. Yeah, I like I said, I

672
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 1: got into this one, and you just condemn a whole

673
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 1: list of people, and it's it's hard with almost every

674
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: one of these, which brings me organically to Harvey Weinstein's

675
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: co workers at the Weinstein Company, or I should say employees. Um.

676
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,959
Speaker 1: So in two thousand four, Lucia Stoler now Lucia Evans. Uh,

677
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: no relation to does she change her name or she

678
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: just get married. She got married. I'm gonna call all

679
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: her Lucia Evans just because that's what she goes by

680
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: now less confusing. She met Harvey Weinstein at a club

681
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: when she was a sophomore in college. Uh. He called

682
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 1: her in the middle of the night and suggested that

683
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,919
Speaker 1: she meet him in his office to talk about her career.

684
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: She did the very savvy smart thing and said she

685
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: only did readings during the day and for a casting director. Right,

686
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: So she's she's making all her round moves at this point.

687
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: So Harvey has his assistant call her and set up

688
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: a daytime meeting, first with Weinstein and then with a

689
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 1: female casting director who worked for him. So this assistant colleges. Okay,

690
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: you're gonna have a meeting. You're gonna come and you're

691
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: gonna talk to Harvey, and then you're going to talk

692
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: to some so and so this lady who was a

693
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: casting director, which seems legitimate. Um, and that's what she

694
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 1: was like, Oh a woman, Great, I feel safe. Like

695
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: you're not just meeting with Harvey. This isn't. He wants

696
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,439
Speaker 1: you privately in his room, like he's going to talk

697
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 1: to you, probably to let you know how the process works.

698
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: And then he's gonna put you with a casting director

699
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: who's a lady. This all feels legit. I feel so nervous.

700
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: So she arrives at the meeting and it's just Harvey

701
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: Weinstein alone in a room full of exercise equipment and

702
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: take out food boxes, which I'm assuming didn't smell great. Um,

703
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: just looking at Harvey Weinstein the world you just eat

704
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 1: and then maybe work out, but maybe it's just there

705
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: to look out, so you think at some point you'll

706
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: work out. I feel like most of that equipment never

707
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 1: got used. Yeah, but that's the kind of thing you

708
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 1: can do when you're that rich. In addition to having

709
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: people cover up your solitary bring the exercise bike into

710
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 1: the meeting room. I'm gonna I'm gonna get in shape.

711
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 1: Fucking Harvey Weinstein go on a jog, asshole. So she

712
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: gets into this creepy room, and Weinstein immediately starts alternating

713
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 1: between praising and insulting her. He'll make comments like, you know,

714
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: you'd be great for this role if you'd lose some weight,

715
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. So he's like he's doing the dropping,

716
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: the negging, or whatever you call it. He told her

717
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 1: that he had two projects in mind for her, and

718
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,839
Speaker 1: then he forced her to give him oral sex, overpowering

719
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,760
Speaker 1: her physically. When she told him to stop, Harvey acted

720
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: like the encounter was no big deal. Evans wondered how

721
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: was other employees could not know what was going on.

722
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: After that meeting, she did meet with a female casting

723
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,839
Speaker 1: director who center scripts and watched her do a read

724
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 1: several weeks later. Evans doesn't think the casting director was

725
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: in on it, but it's hard to say. Um so, yeah,

726
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: like that's one of those things like she might not

727
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: have She might have been helping him do this without

728
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: even knowing it, because she wasn't in that initial meeting.

729
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: She was just being used. Essentially, as cover and he

730
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: had her do the work, got the casting director. That's

731
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: too hard to believe that they have no sense of

732
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,320
Speaker 1: what's going on, you know, because when people exit and

733
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,399
Speaker 1: look frazzled, like yeah, and there must have been people

734
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: who saw her. And that's why I assume she says

735
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:35,800
Speaker 1: she can't imagine they didn't know what was going on,

736
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 1: because she probably walked out of that room horrified and

737
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 1: traumatized and like people wouldn't meet her eye. But it's

738
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: one of those the sheer weight of encounters like this,

739
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: and it sounds like there might have been hundreds over

740
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:50,959
Speaker 1: the time that he was you know, over the twenty

741
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 1: or thirty years. And I'll say this from everything I

742
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:55,399
Speaker 1: can read, there's a couple of things you find out.

743
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: Number one, a good number of them would have been consensual.

744
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 1: You know. Obviously there's the fund up power dynam Meca.

745
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: He's got a bunch of money and he holds the

746
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 1: key for to your career. But he didn't have to

747
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 1: physically force them. They were they There were a lot

748
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: of them where people who are like, Okay, the deal is,

749
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 1: I fuck you and then I get a part in

750
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: the movie. And there are people who were down for that.

751
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: Um So that happened. I think a lot of this

752
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: would be telling yourself that that's what's happened in order

753
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 1: to feel better about it. But you work for Harvey,

754
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 1: you don't say, oh, he's assaulting another woman. You say,

755
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,839
Speaker 1: that's Harvey Weinstein. He's sleeping with somebody else and she's

756
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,479
Speaker 1: going to get a role doing something. Um So, maybe

757
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: that's part of what was going on in their head.

758
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: But I do feel like some of these women clearly

759
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 1: came out looking trauma, died a little. Yeah, it's it's rough,

760
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: and it's another one of the like it obviously is

761
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 1: messed up, like asking random people to meet you in

762
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 1: hotel rooms and apartments, But people who were just legitimate

763
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 1: business partners of Harvey's who condemn him and stuff right

764
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 1: now now also say like, that's what he did with everybody,

765
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 1: Like if you were working with Harvey, you would meet

766
00:37:58,360 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: with him. It ran the hours of the night in

767
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: his hotel or his apartment. That was just like the

768
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:04,959
Speaker 1: style of predator he was. But I'm going to guess

769
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: that evolved naturally out of the kind of person he was,

770
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: rather than he's not just inviting these people because obviously

771
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 1: he's willing to assault them at the office. But that's

772
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: also camouflages it because then nobody thinks it's weird that

773
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: Harvey has these young actresses meeting him at whatever hotel,

774
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: because everybody meets him at the hotel. Um, there's not

775
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: too much suspicion. There's not too much suspicion. Although again,

776
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 1: like it happened so often that at some point they

777
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: had to know they were lying to themselves a little bit.

778
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 1: And uh, speaking of lying to yourselves a little bit,

779
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 1: it's time to break for ads. Uh. And So rather

780
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: than ranting about the evils of money, which is really

781
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: easy to do on a podcast about Harvey Weinstein, a

782
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: man who bought his way into raping dozens of people,

783
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 1: I would like to sell you, guys and cool products,

784
00:38:54,080 --> 00:39:04,800
Speaker 1: so smooth, Okay. So we just talked about how Lucia

785
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: Evans met him in two thousand four. Uh, and he

786
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: tricked her into meeting her alone in a conference room

787
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 1: and then forced her to give him oral sex. Uh.

788
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: And we're kind of wondering about complicity because there was

789
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: part of why she felt safe and going there as

790
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 1: a female casting director was promised to be there. So

791
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 1: it's hard to say if that casting director knew what

792
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: was going on. Evans doesn't think she did. Um, but

793
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 1: it's definite that some of his assistance. Weinstein's assistants were

794
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 1: complicit and knew more or less what was going on.

795
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,879
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote here from the New York Times article

796
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein's complicity machine. Quote some low level assistance were

797
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: pulled in. They compiled bibles that included hints on facilitating

798
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 1: encounters with women, and were required to procure his penile

799
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 1: injections for rectile dysfunction. End quote. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did

800
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: these assistants know Harvey was a rapist? It's hard to say. Uh.

801
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 1: Most of the Weinstein company people who have talked will

802
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: insist that they just thought Harvey was an abusive creep

803
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 1: and not a sex predator. A group of like thirty

804
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: of them sent a statement into The New Yorker, which

805
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to read now. We all knew that we

806
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 1: were working for a man with an infamous temper. We

807
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:14,240
Speaker 1: did not know that we were working for a serial

808
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: sexual predator. We knew that our boss could be manipulative,

809
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 1: We did not know that he used his power to

810
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,320
Speaker 1: systematically assault in silence. Women. We had an idea that

811
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: he was a womanizer who had extra marital affairs. We

812
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: did not know he was a violent aggressor or an

813
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: alleged rapist. So that's kind of their defense to moral culpability.

814
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:32,879
Speaker 1: It's again, it's the same as benz As. I knew

815
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: he was a piece of ship. I didn't think he

816
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,760
Speaker 1: was raping women, right, because I guess once that door closes,

817
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 1: your position in the company doesn't really allow you to

818
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 1: know too much more. But still, it's just God, I

819
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 1: would lose my mind if I was one of those

820
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 1: assistants today. Well, and some of them definitely knew what

821
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 1: was going on behind that closed door. There is a

822
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 1: story in a New Yorker article by Dana Goodyear that

823
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,320
Speaker 1: makes me heavily doubt that they weren't sure what was

824
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: going on. Um. It's from a woman who went to

825
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,240
Speaker 1: work at the Weinstein Company and applied for a position

826
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 1: that would have put her very close to Harvey. I

827
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: think she was going to be one of his assistants

828
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 1: if she did this job. Um. And she recalled to

829
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: The New Yorker that a female executive took her aside

830
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: and said that she was too pretty to work for

831
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 1: Weinstein because she would embarrass him. Um, she continued to

832
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 1: push for the job, and so a former Weinstein assistant

833
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: took her to lunch and said, quote, do not take

834
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 1: this job. You will see things you will never be

835
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 1: able to unsee, and you will do things you will

836
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: never forgive yourself for. Wait, so what's she kind of

837
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: being like, you're too pretty for him, You'll embarrass him.

838
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 1: To just be like that was like an excuse to

839
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: be like just don't Yeah, that was the executive trying

840
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: to try to nicely keep her away from this job.

841
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 1: And then when that didn't work, they were like, Okay,

842
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 1: get the lady who had the job and have her

843
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: be like don't pretty, he will come for you. Yeah.

844
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 1: That is terrifying. So it's clear from that that the

845
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: people who worked with Harvey both knew he was a

846
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 1: predator and and we're aware enough of how dangerous he

847
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 1: was that they would protect people when they could, or

848
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 1: if they if they liked you and knew you, they

849
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 1: would try to keep you away from him. And that

850
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 1: I mean, it's nice that this lady was saved from

851
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: a bad situation, but it's kind of damning for a

852
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: lot of these people on a moral level, because then

853
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,919
Speaker 1: they weren't unsure of what was happening mine. You don't

854
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: warn someone away from a job like that unless you know, oh,

855
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 1: you're gonna get fucking assaulted if you get close to

856
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 1: That is the word that they really that's the unfortunate thing.

857
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,439
Speaker 1: I wish they'd use that language instead of trying to like, yeah,

858
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 1: protect this situation. Just be like, honey, to take this job,

859
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 1: he will try and have sex with you. And that

860
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 1: is that not he will try. He will find a

861
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: way to have sex with you if any means holding

862
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: you down. That's what he does. We all know it,

863
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 1: and we still work here. Please don't judge it. Which

864
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: is that's a harder conversation to say, Yeah, there's a

865
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: lot of people in this story who I have to

866
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,320
Speaker 1: assume have spent the last twenty years drinking themselves to sleep.

867
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 1: In his first big article on Weinstein running, Pharaoh noted

868
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 1: that sixteen former and current executives and assistants who had

869
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: worked with or for Weinstein had told him about quote

870
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 1: unwanted sexual advances and touching unquote that they'd witnessed at work.

871
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 1: So again, that's not closed door stuff. That's people telling

872
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 1: a journalist like I saw him touch a lady and

873
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 1: she wasn't having it. She did not want it. It

874
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: was clearly not okay. That number included employees who were

875
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 1: quote enlisted in a subterfuge to make the victims feel safe. Uh.

876
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: These are referred to and a lot of the reporting

877
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 1: as honey pots, which is like a spy term for like,

878
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 1: I feel like that this is running Pharaoh is great,

879
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 1: U incredible journalism deserves the Pulitzer and all that. I

880
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 1: feel like honeypot is the wrong term for this, because

881
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 1: that's the term you use for like a sexy lady

882
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,320
Speaker 1: spy and she like seduces the guy to get him exactly.

883
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 1: And these the women that Harvey uses to lure other

884
00:43:55,320 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: women into feeling safe of getting close to heart honeypots. Um,

885
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:05,320
Speaker 1: I don't know what terms just like emotional manipulation using women.

886
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: It's camouflage, it's rapist camouflage, Like, look, you can trust

887
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 1: another one. There's another lady in here. Nothing's bad has

888
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 1: ever happened in a room with two ladies in a

889
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 1: creepy man. Uh. Several female employees, assistants, and executives would

890
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 1: sometimes join meetings with Weinstein and a woman he was

891
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 1: interested in. Uh, and then at some point midway through

892
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 1: the meeting, Weinstein would dismiss them and they would all

893
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:30,240
Speaker 1: leave him alone with his victim. One female executive explained quote,

894
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: there was a large volume of these types of meetings

895
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: that Harvey would have with aspiring actresses and models. He

896
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,280
Speaker 1: would have them late at night, usually at hotel bars

897
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: or in hotel rooms, and in order to make these

898
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 1: women feel more comfortable, he would ask a female executive

899
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 1: or assistant to start these meetings with him. So, um,

900
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 1: that's so at one point they would just excuse themselves, yeah, exactly,

901
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 1: or Harvey would make it clear that it was time

902
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: for them to excuse themselves, and then they'd all leave. Um.

903
00:44:56,160 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: Which that's culpability right there. Your party to a crime. Um.

904
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: Not that I think any of these people ever gonna

905
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: get charged, but if they were, they deserve it. I guess, Like,

906
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:14,839
Speaker 1: I don't even feel good, like I wanna even They

907
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: could have just walked behind him and like, oh god, yeah, okay. Um. So,

908
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 1: the woman who related that last quote insisted that she

909
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 1: never participated in any of these honeypot meetings, although she

910
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 1: said she was asked to do so, but at least

911
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: one former employee did come forward to Ron and Pharaoh

912
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 1: to admit to being used as a honeypot um. She

913
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: reported that in one of these meetings, like she would,

914
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: she was sitting down at a meeting with Weinstein and

915
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: some lady Weinstein wanted to get with uh, and midway

916
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 1: through the meeting, Weinstein turned to her while he'd been

917
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 1: flirting with this lady and said, tell her how good

918
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: of a boyfriend. I am so like, that's that's again.

919
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,879
Speaker 1: It's it doesn't sound like these were just we're being camouflage.

920
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,359
Speaker 1: It's we're being camouflage and we're trying to help our

921
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 1: boss hit on strangers like wingman him. They had, they're

922
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 1: like wingmanning him into sex crimes. And so again, I

923
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 1: really want to get judgmental about these people, and maybe

924
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: I should be really like I came into this podcast

925
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,839
Speaker 1: wanting to do that, but they all when you when

926
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:18,240
Speaker 1: you read anyone who worked with him now their comments

927
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 1: on it, they all seemed like they were so scared,

928
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: which makes it harder for me to have that kind

929
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:25,800
Speaker 1: of righteous anger you want in a story about a

930
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 1: bunch of people enabling a mass rapist. That former employe,

931
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:31,359
Speaker 1: the one who was a honey pot, said that he's

932
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: been systematically doing this for a very long time. Uh.

933
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,919
Speaker 1: And she said that she often thinks about one time

934
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: when Harvey whispered to himself as far as she could tell,

935
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: after he like shouted at a bunch of people and

936
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 1: you know, just had one of his like temper tantrums.

937
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: There are things I've done that nobody knows. Like he

938
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 1: started like shouting and screaming and the like. At the

939
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 1: end of it was just like repeating that to himself

940
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 1: if I heard that, that's a rap, that is a rap,

941
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 1: that's a crazy person. He's saying that after you know

942
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 1: some of the things he's done, like you're if you

943
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 1: don't know every word, you know that team self awareness

944
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 1: that he knows god damn well that he is ruining people. Yeah,

945
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: and he does not give a fuck, and then that

946
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,959
Speaker 1: that that's saying that to almost be like, don't funk

947
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: with me. I've done things. That's yeah, you well, and

948
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 1: he there's stories he's threatened to kill people. Um I

949
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: and I. In fact, I think it was Selma Hayak

950
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:27,839
Speaker 1: who said that he made like some sort of comment

951
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 1: like I could have you killed during an argument because

952
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,399
Speaker 1: she stood up to him. Yeah, she wouldn't have sex

953
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 1: with him to make the Freedom Callo movie. Um, And

954
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 1: he made like a bunch of ridiculous demands and he

955
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 1: was like, well, okay, well, if we're still going to

956
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 1: make this, you have to find ten million dollars in

957
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 1: funding on your own and this, and she like met

958
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 1: all of these demands and so then he made her

959
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,879
Speaker 1: do a topless sex scene with another woman in the movie,

960
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 1: which she said she did because she didn't want to

961
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 1: see everybody else's work put away. Um, because you know,

962
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: but anyway like that, and he would regularly when you

963
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 1: read uh, any of these articles about him, there's people

964
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: will talk about the threats he would make. And it

965
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 1: was most more common for him to make threats like

966
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 1: I can destroy your reputation, I can get like I

967
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 1: know people, I can get you in the news like

968
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 1: this will be We've already covered a lot of that.

969
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 1: So these women who are acting as honeypots, who knew

970
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:21,800
Speaker 1: that they were luring other women into a dangerous man's embrace,

971
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 1: were also like terrified of him. And I don't know

972
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 1: how much that reduces their guilt. It doesn't make it

973
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 1: fun to judge them. You just have no choice or

974
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 1: your life will be over. And that's what sucks. It's

975
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 1: like you can't you can't judge him because because of

976
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 1: his power, But part of you also kind of wishes

977
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 1: they did a little bit more to make it clear,

978
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 1: like they certainly had a chance to be heroes and

979
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 1: they didn't take it. I don't know how much of

980
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:49,359
Speaker 1: a villain that makes them, but people got hurt because

981
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: of their actions. One of the women. It's probably worth

982
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,839
Speaker 1: noting that The New York Times interviewed who want Seeing

983
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 1: had assaulted Ashley math Ow. She was a dancer in

984
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:00,280
Speaker 1: one of his films, and she said that his aston

985
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: kind of pushed her into a car and told her

986
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 1: that she was going to have a meeting with Weinstein

987
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: for business purposes in a hotel room, and when she

988
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 1: got to the room, Weinstein pushed her on a bed

989
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 1: and masturbated on her um. She has a much colder

990
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: picture of how all of the people around him acted.

991
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 1: Let's think I feel like they're so disassociated. Yeah. She

992
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 1: says that she was crying and the his female assistant

993
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't even acknowledge her um and that it all seemed

994
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 1: like a well oiled machine. So when you dark, yeah,

995
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 1: and again when you when you listen to these women

996
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 1: are in a lot of them women, But like any

997
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:38,839
Speaker 1: of the people who worked with him, they all point

998
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 1: out how scared they all were. But then you talk

999
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 1: about the experiences the women that heart be assaulted, who

1000
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 1: were on the other end of this machine that he constructed,

1001
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:49,320
Speaker 1: and it seemed to him and just a bunch of

1002
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 1: people following orders coldly, not willing to look you in

1003
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 1: the eye, which again makes me think, yeah, and I'm

1004
00:49:56,600 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: too sympathetic for these people willing to do this. Um,

1005
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 1: that's so evil to not even acknowledge a woman crying

1006
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 1: that you clearly put in that situation is God, Yeah,

1007
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 1: I deserve nothing. That's so terrible. And again you might

1008
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:12,880
Speaker 1: come back around here with I'm about to talk to you.

1009
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 1: Because some of Weinstein's assistants did resist. Michelle Franklin confronted

1010
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 1: Weinstein about his behavior, He told her that her opinion

1011
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: didn't count, and he fired her. It seems like most

1012
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 1: of the employees who went along with Harvey's behavior did

1013
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 1: so out of a mix of a need and a

1014
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:28,759
Speaker 1: desire for money. And I feared that he could destroy

1015
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 1: their career forever. A good case study in this is

1016
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 1: an assistant named send Deep with a Hall. Part of

1017
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 1: her job was to keep him supplied with the injectable

1018
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:41,800
Speaker 1: erection drugs cabbaget and i'll prostadil so you can just

1019
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 1: shoot up real quick. You got to shoot him. Most

1020
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: of these I think you have to shoot into yours.

1021
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 1: I know that some of them. I've talked to a

1022
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 1: lot of porn industry people who will use Trimex, which

1023
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 1: is a jail that you shoot right into your dick,

1024
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: because it's like it's it's like guaranteed, like if you

1025
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 1: have to perform for a camera, like it'll make it happen.

1026
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 1: And if I'm remembering correctly, one of his initial defenses

1027
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:03,359
Speaker 1: to why he couldn't have raped some of these women

1028
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:05,440
Speaker 1: as that like, well, I'm not in good health. It's

1029
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 1: I can't even get irrect. I was like, you people

1030
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 1: paying you to shoot your different Yeah. So anyway, getting

1031
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: Harvey his dick drugs was part of Ms. Ro Hall's

1032
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: unofficial duties, and when she talked to The New York Times,

1033
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 1: Mr Hall recalled that Harvey had an in depth knowledge

1034
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 1: of her personal life. He'd regularly bring up her student loans.

1035
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 1: He mentioned that he knew her younger sister where she

1036
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 1: went to school and that he could have her kicked

1037
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:28,839
Speaker 1: out of that school. Uh, and he offered her an

1038
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: extra five dollars every time she's applied him with his

1039
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 1: erection drugs. So he really he had info on everybody. Yeah,

1040
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: and it's it's entirely possible. Mr ra Hall was I

1041
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 1: don't I don't know how the time frames link up,

1042
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 1: but she would have been one of these women, probably

1043
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 1: not looking in the eyes of another woman who Harvey

1044
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 1: had just assaulted. Does the fact that she thought, like

1045
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 1: her sister might get kicked out of school or Harvey

1046
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 1: could funk up her financial life like see, And then

1047
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:58,760
Speaker 1: I come back around to like there are obviously more victims.

1048
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: I guess the question is like how much? How bad

1049
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:03,360
Speaker 1: are they too? That's the thing is they're victims of

1050
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 1: the industry of like a system that is uncontrollable. Yeah,

1051
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 1: and that's part of Weinstein's evil was building a machine

1052
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 1: to help him do this. Rather than like Cosby, there

1053
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:16,280
Speaker 1: were some people who sort of helped keep it under wraps,

1054
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 1: but it wasn't anything like this, like for the most

1055
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:21,360
Speaker 1: part it was one guy and some fucking rufi's assaulting

1056
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:25,880
Speaker 1: a ton of women. Weinstein built an engine, but also

1057
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 1: the pieces of that engine are culpable. Yeah, it feels

1058
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:32,319
Speaker 1: like almost every part of that engine could have fallen

1059
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 1: apart at any point though, because people were probably losing

1060
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 1: their mind. Yeah, And Mr Hall says that, like part

1061
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 1: of her job was to clean semen stains off his couch,

1062
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 1: and he would grope her constantly. Like while she would

1063
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 1: do pretty much anything, she's i think suing him now,

1064
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 1: so she's clearly a victim, but like she's also helping this, Like,

1065
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,840
Speaker 1: what do you that's so crazy to me. Yeah, it's fucked.

1066
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:58,240
Speaker 1: It's totally fucked. Anyone ever touched me in the workplace.

1067
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: And make it very clear right now, all my coworkers

1068
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 1: are listening, I will burn this place to the ground.

1069
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 1: That's crazy to me. Cleaning cement that is, oh my god. Yeah,

1070
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 1: and think about like I'm trying not to delve too

1071
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 1: much into Harvey's mind in this, because funk that guy.

1072
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 1: But like the kind of entitlement it is to get

1073
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 1: cum stains on a couch and then make your employee

1074
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 1: clean them. Yeah, Jesus christ Man it's super gross. So

1075
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 1: now that we've entered the realm of really unclear bastards,

1076
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 1: let's swing back to somebody who is clearly a bad

1077
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 1: person in this or a bad group of people. I

1078
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 1: should say, the Manhattan District Attorney's office. Oh yeah, yeah,

1079
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 1: the whole d a's office. Well, everyone who's involved in

1080
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:42,919
Speaker 1: this part. So in the Bill Cosby podcast, we talked

1081
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 1: about how Bill status is America's dad and most beloved entertainer,

1082
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,239
Speaker 1: probably contributed to the police I think also in New

1083
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 1: York choosing to ignore early reports of predatory behavior about

1084
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: him just because they were like, no, we're not gonna

1085
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 1: go after Bill Casby. Harvey Weinstey is kind of the

1086
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: opposite case. Um, He's always had a reputation and as

1087
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 1: being a rich sleeves bag liberals to the police were

1088
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:05,720
Speaker 1: happy to go after him. Um. In March two fifteen,

1089
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:09,280
Speaker 1: Harvey invited Amber Battellana to his office in Tribeca. Ambra

1090
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:11,839
Speaker 1: is a model and Miss Italy finalist who was at

1091
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:14,239
Speaker 1: that point twenty one and looking to start an acting career.

1092
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 1: She met with Weinstein and surprise surprise, claims he lunged

1093
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 1: towards her, grabbed her breasts, demanded to know if they

1094
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 1: were real, and tried to put his hand up her skirt.

1095
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 1: Then he gave her tickets to a Broadway show and

1096
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 1: told her he'd meet her that evening. Uh, which, there

1097
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 1: you go. Um. She was angry like you'd like you'd be,

1098
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:35,360
Speaker 1: and she went immediately to the n y p D.

1099
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 1: And the NYPD was great about it. They said, yeah,

1100
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:41,439
Speaker 1: that sounds like a fucking crime. Let's do some police ships.

1101
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:43,360
Speaker 1: So the Special Victim Squad took the case and they

1102
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 1: asked Amber if she'd be willing to do what's called

1103
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 1: a controlled call. That's where the victim calls the suspect

1104
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:52,920
Speaker 1: or whatever and um talks to them on her accorded

1105
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 1: line and the hopes that they'll confess to whatever it

1106
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:57,840
Speaker 1: is that they did. They never got a chance to

1107
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 1: do a controlled call because while she was talking to

1108
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 1: the cops, Weinstein called Ambra. He apologized for his behavior

1109
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 1: and then asked her to meet with him again in

1110
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:11,760
Speaker 1: his hotel room. Um. So the s VU guys convinced

1111
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 1: her to meet with him again, and she was kind

1112
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 1: of freaking out about this. She didn't really want to

1113
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 1: meet with him, but they were able to convince her

1114
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: to do it, and they gave her I think two

1115
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:21,759
Speaker 1: cell phones to record the conversations with Um. They met

1116
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 1: at the bar in the Tribeca Grand Hotel and Weinstein

1117
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 1: told her about all the women whose careers he'd helped

1118
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 1: an offered to pay for a dialect coach. Then he

1119
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 1: asked her to go up to his room while he showered.

1120
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 1: She said no one number of times and want up

1121
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 1: like going to the bathroom and talking with the cops,

1122
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:37,359
Speaker 1: and they convinced her to go up with him. Um

1123
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:40,839
Speaker 1: still recording, but then she stopped outside of the door

1124
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:42,880
Speaker 1: to his room and refused to go any further. And

1125
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 1: that's where this conversation happened. And you can find the

1126
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 1: tape on the New Yorker. But this is an NYPD tape,

1127
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:50,360
Speaker 1: so UM, we're just gonna play that in full. It

1128
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:52,920
Speaker 1: will give you a chance to hear what Harvey Wanton

1129
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:54,880
Speaker 1: actually sounded like when he was trying to get a

1130
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 1: woman into a room with him. I'm telling you right now,

1131
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 1: what do we have to do being I an't gonna

1132
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 1: take a shower. You sit there and have a drink water,

1133
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 1: don't drink, and I stay on the bar. No, you

1134
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:09,840
Speaker 1: must come here now. Please, I don't want I'm not

1135
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 1: doing anything you like embarrassing. I'm sorry. I think yesterday

1136
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:17,719
Speaker 1: I was kind of aggressive for I need to know

1137
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 1: a person. I want to do a thing. I don't

1138
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 1: I would think. Please, I swear I won't just sit

1139
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:24,719
Speaker 1: with me. Don't embarrass me in the hotel. Here all

1140
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 1: the time to promise to please sit there. Please one

1141
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 1: minute go to the bathroomlease. I don't want to do something.

1142
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:34,560
Speaker 1: I don't want to go to the pack. Come here,

1143
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 1: listen to me. I want to go downstairs. I'm not

1144
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 1: going to do anything. You'll never see me again. Acts

1145
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 1: if you if you embarrassed me in this hotel, I'm

1146
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:44,799
Speaker 1: not embarrassing you. It's just that I don't I don't

1147
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:48,360
Speaker 1: feel comfortable. I mean, you don't have a thing with me. Please,

1148
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:50,720
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do anything. I swear my children,

1149
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:54,359
Speaker 1: please come in on everything. I'm a famous guy. You're

1150
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 1: being very uncomfortable. He's coming now and one minute and

1151
00:56:58,080 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 1: if you want to leave when the guy comes with

1152
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 1: my used today you touch my grace. Please, I'm sorry.

1153
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 1: Just come on. I'm used to that. Are you're used

1154
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:12,879
Speaker 1: to that? No? But I'm not used to that if

1155
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 1: you please, no, I don't want to do you'll call

1156
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 1: me again. I'm sorry, I know, but yes, there was

1157
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 1: too much. I mean, I will never do another thing

1158
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 1: to you five minutes. Don't ruin your friendship with me

1159
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 1: for five minutes. I know, but it's kind of like

1160
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 1: it's too much for me. I kind of please. You're

1161
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 1: making a big scene here, but I want to fun

1162
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 1: thank you. Yeah, that was terrifying. Yeah, it's horrifying. And

1163
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:49,920
Speaker 1: you heard that line where he says, I swear in

1164
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 1: my children's lives. I was just reading again another article

1165
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: today where someone pointed out I think it was one

1166
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 1: of his assistants actually was being interviewed, and she said

1167
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 1: that was his go to line if need to bring

1168
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:03,080
Speaker 1: his kids up well, to to say whenever he wanted

1169
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:04,960
Speaker 1: someone to trust him that he hadn't meant something or

1170
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 1: that he hadn't done anything bad, I swear on my

1171
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 1: children that I would never do anything. They would never

1172
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:12,120
Speaker 1: do it. Like that was, like she said, he was constant,

1173
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 1: like that was. There was so much to unpack on that. Yeah,

1174
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:18,680
Speaker 1: like one five minutes, I won't do anything, Like clearly

1175
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 1: you're just a crazy You're lying. I can't even the

1176
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 1: police wanted to go in and basically catch him on

1177
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:29,240
Speaker 1: tape trying to assault her. Yeah. Yeah, they want to

1178
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:31,040
Speaker 1: get as much as they can on to which is

1179
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 1: which is a little messed up on their end too,

1180
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:35,880
Speaker 1: because like, I feel like they probably had enough at

1181
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:39,520
Speaker 1: that point, because how would she escaped, you know, like,

1182
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:41,720
Speaker 1: what were they planning on busting through the door and

1183
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: stopping it? I don't think So. There's so much there

1184
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 1: that it's just so fucked up, it's about to get

1185
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 1: fucked her. Uh So, Amber had had too much at

1186
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 1: that point. She left immediately after that call. She didn't

1187
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 1: go into the room with him. The police felt like

1188
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 1: they had enough evidence to press charges, so they pressed charges.

1189
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 1: They took it to the Manhattan d A's office. The

1190
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:03,440
Speaker 1: d a's office spent two weeks, which is a really

1191
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:06,120
Speaker 1: long time for this sort of thing, investigating the case,

1192
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:09,920
Speaker 1: and then decided not to prosecute. Now, this may have

1193
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:11,960
Speaker 1: had something to do with the avalanche of articles that

1194
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 1: came out in the meantime. So as soon as about

1195
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 1: Ambra yep in a bunch of magazines. Yeah, yeah, it

1196
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 1: turned out she'd be in a witness in a bribery

1197
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 1: case against Italian President Silvio Berlisconi and an unwitting invatide

1198
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 1: to one of his Bunga Bunga parties. You've heard of

1199
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:32,959
Speaker 1: that part. Silvio Berlusconi is a creepy funk who would

1200
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 1: have sex parties. She wound up at one of those,

1201
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 1: not knowing what it was and I think like left,

1202
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:39,280
Speaker 1: but anyway, she was like a witness in a bribery

1203
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 1: case against him. Um. She had also previously accused an

1204
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 1: Italian businessman who she had had a relationship with, I

1205
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:48,320
Speaker 1: think of sexual assault, and I guess the d A

1206
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:51,439
Speaker 1: decided she wasn't credible enough, that it was just beyond

1207
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 1: the pale that an Italian supermodel would have had three

1208
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 1: inappropriate interactions with men in her life, which is like,

1209
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 1: it seems like if those are the only three times

1210
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:06,439
Speaker 1: that she's been around creepy guys, I'm surprised. Oh God,

1211
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:09,480
Speaker 1: people really don't get a ship about women. No, And

1212
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 1: it's likely that the d A probably got cold feet

1213
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 1: because of a prior profile case where Dominic Strauss Khan,

1214
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:17,160
Speaker 1: who was a big wig with the I m F

1215
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 1: and a French politician guy had gotten charged with the

1216
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 1: rape of a Hotel maid Um. They had to drop

1217
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:27,440
Speaker 1: the charges against him because of issues with the witness's credibility.

1218
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 1: It's an interesting story, you should read into it, but

1219
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 1: for this our purposes, the d A was scared of

1220
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:34,680
Speaker 1: a repeat um and so, like everybody else in this

1221
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 1: story who enabled Harvey Weinstein, they were frightened for what

1222
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 1: going up against him could do to their careers, and

1223
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 1: so they backed down. Ambra understandably lost any kind of

1224
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:47,480
Speaker 1: faith in the American legal system. She settled privately with Weinstein.

1225
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 1: As part of the settlement, she was acquired to hand

1226
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 1: all of her personal electronic devices over to a company

1227
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 1: called Kroll. Now. Kroll is a security services company. Their

1228
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 1: website claims that they're the quote leading global provider of

1229
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 1: risk solutions. Before Yeah, what they are is rent of spies,

1230
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:07,520
Speaker 1: and that brings us to the end of today's podcast

1231
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:10,040
Speaker 1: and is where we're going to start at part two,

1232
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 1: which is the army of spies that Harvey Weinstein hired

1233
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 1: and utilized in order to keep his secrets. These are

1234
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:20,840
Speaker 1: probably the clearest monsters other than some of the people

1235
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 1: at the inquirer of this story, outside of Harvey Weinstein,

1236
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 1: and it is um. It is quite a thing to unpack.

1237
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 1: So if you want to join us on Thursday, we'll

1238
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:32,160
Speaker 1: be getting into all that and finishing up the saga

1239
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 1: of all the mini bastards of Harvey Weinstein. Until then,

1240
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:39,000
Speaker 1: I am Robert Evans and my guest has been I

1241
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:42,360
Speaker 1: am an a host nan I am horrified. You want

1242
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 1: to tell the people where they can find you on

1243
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 1: the interweb. Sure, you can follow me on Twitter at

1244
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 1: at anna host n A N N A h O

1245
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:53,120
Speaker 1: S S N I e H. You can listen to

1246
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 1: my podcast Ethnically Ambiguous on Apple podcast or wherever you

1247
01:01:56,640 --> 01:01:59,240
Speaker 1: find your podcasts, and you can follow my podcast on

1248
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:02,440
Speaker 1: Twitter at A Nickelly am a m B on Twitter,

1249
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 1: where we post a lot of information about Middle Eastern news.

1250
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:07,720
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at at I right okay,

1251
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 1: where I also post a lot about Middle Eastern news. Uh.

1252
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 1: You can find this podcast on Twitter at Bastard's pod.

1253
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 1: You can find our website at behind the Bastards dot com,

1254
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:21,200
Speaker 1: which we'll have some terrible pictures of Harvey Weinstein looking

1255
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 1: like a schlub and as well as the sources if

1256
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 1: you want to do more reading for yourselves. So until Thursday,

1257
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 1: I'm Robert Evans, please keep feeling like you're covered in grease,

1258
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:36,480
Speaker 1: because that's how I feel right now. M