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Speaker 1: Yeah, can we all just tip really well in the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: So now you see when you order food in they'll

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Speaker 1: they'll say, that's what really only happens when you're in

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Speaker 1: a restaurant and someone brings food to your table, they're

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Speaker 1: actually working this. Usually a delivery person isn't getting the

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Speaker 1: same as a server who served your whole meal. Guess

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Speaker 1: what you gotta dig deep. Now's the time to tip.

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Speaker 1: I have been tipping forty and I know I'm wealthy.

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Speaker 1: I know it. It means it means more to them

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Speaker 1: than it does to me. So whatever you can do.

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Speaker 1: But some people are still going through that, you know,

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Speaker 1: fift mentality of tipping. Everybody's been through it. It's terrible

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Speaker 1: to get good staff now in restaurants and stores, it's impossible,

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Speaker 1: and everyone's just everyone's been through it. Just tip really

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Speaker 1: really well. Just understand that that's part of the whole program.

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Speaker 1: If you're leaving the house, if you're ordering food, no

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Speaker 1: matter where you are, what you're doing, if you're being

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Speaker 1: serviced in any way, grabbing your bag, getting your car,

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Speaker 1: helping you out, bringing something to a hotel room, bringing

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Speaker 1: you know, shoveling your snow, doing your landscaping. Whatever it is,

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Speaker 1: tip really really well, it's the time for it, and

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Speaker 1: people really do notice it, and some people really forget it.

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Speaker 1: Today's guest is Huma Aberdeen. She is a high profile politician,

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Speaker 1: most known for her role as vice chair for Hillary

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Speaker 1: Clinton's two thousand sixteen presidential campaign. She is a Muslim

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Speaker 1: American woman who spent much of her life in Saudi Arabia.

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Speaker 1: Her road to becoming a well known political staff or

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Speaker 1: has not been easy, from starting out with an internship

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Speaker 1: at the White House to becoming Hillary Clinton's right hand woman,

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Speaker 1: Whoma is a force to be reckoned with in the

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Speaker 1: political field. She is here to talk about it, go

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Speaker 1: there and explain her life and journey on her own terms.

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Speaker 1: She recently authored and published her memoir titled Both and

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Speaker 1: A Life in Many Worlds, a New York Times bestseller.

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Speaker 1: This book explores her personal and political life very intertwined.

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Speaker 1: Though she's been faced with hardship over the years, Huma

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Speaker 1: is able to rise through it all. Whoma's tale of

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Speaker 1: triumph is sure to inspire you all. So, um, you've

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Speaker 1: had an incredibly interesting life. I One of the first

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Speaker 1: things that jumped off the page is just growing up

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Speaker 1: and if you felt I spoke to um Bosama St.

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Speaker 1: John who was saying that she felt so different being

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Speaker 1: in this country and that her family ate different food

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Speaker 1: and that she always just felt a little bit different

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Speaker 1: and had to find a way to really shine and

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Speaker 1: be herself. And she walks in to Netflix meetings in

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Speaker 1: full sequence, and you know, she's totally owned who she is.

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Speaker 1: But I just wonder if being quote unquote culturally different,

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Speaker 1: how that has affected your life, your childhood, the way

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Speaker 1: you see things, the way you've acted, had to be strong,

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing, you know? For me, And first

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Speaker 1: of all, I love Bosama, She's a dear friend. And

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Speaker 1: I could totally I was nodding as you were describing

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Speaker 1: her that way because I have been in a meeting

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Speaker 1: and seeing her walk in and some beautiful, spectacular outfit

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Speaker 1: which she's always in and then has something brilliant to

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Speaker 1: say in every meeting. But you know, for me, I

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Speaker 1: think it's the way I was raised. My parents, both

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Speaker 1: you know, immigrants, raised us to come to this country.

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Speaker 1: And when they did this themselves, when they came to

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Speaker 1: this country, they kept their cultural traditions that were important

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Speaker 1: to them, but they really did believe in assimilating. They

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Speaker 1: did believe in reaching out to the local, the community

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Speaker 1: and feeling. And they raised us as Americans even though

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Speaker 1: I grew up in Saudi Arabia. The one identity my

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Speaker 1: parents that are primary identity was to be an American.

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Speaker 1: And so I had that confidence, um in me. And

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Speaker 1: I do think also a great gift I received from

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Speaker 1: my parents was traveling all over the world, just being

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Speaker 1: a little girl and going into other culture. As you know,

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Speaker 1: my son is now ten, and he brought me on

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Speaker 1: his iPad the other day, um uh, this story about

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Speaker 1: a tsunami in Asia, and and I was thinking, you know,

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Speaker 1: when I was your age, I was walking the streets

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Speaker 1: of Bangkok, I went to Jakarta, I went to Tokyo.

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Speaker 1: It was this, you know, in some ways where a

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Speaker 1: much more connected world, but in other ways we are,

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Speaker 1: you know, so so separated and far apart. I think

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Speaker 1: my parents exposing me to so many different cultures meant

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Speaker 1: that when I walked in to both University George Washington

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Speaker 1: University nine and then the White House in n I

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Speaker 1: kind of had a confidence. I liked the fact that

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Speaker 1: I was different. I had a different perspective. I knew

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Speaker 1: I was different. I kind of liked it. Um, that's

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Speaker 1: nice leaning into a hundred percent and leaned into it.

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Speaker 1: I embraced it, and in some ways I still do.

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Speaker 1: I'm just still in many ways often the only me

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Speaker 1: in the room, the only person who has that kind

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Speaker 1: of background and experience and cultural and language experience. And

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Speaker 1: so I've never it's never been negative, except for when

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Speaker 1: things got ugly, you know, during the kid Oh well,

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Speaker 1: then people go for the low hanging insult. So I

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Speaker 1: think it's great for us to be able to really

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Speaker 1: show our children how to be confident and lean into

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Speaker 1: whatever it is, you know, being just beautiful, being who

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Speaker 1: you are. It's easier said than done, but by leading

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Speaker 1: by example, you know, because your name alone is different,

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Speaker 1: you know, and probably was as a child. So I

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Speaker 1: just like that for the younger generation. But there are

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Speaker 1: some things the point that you just made about my name,

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Speaker 1: Like my little boy, his name is Jordan's and I

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Speaker 1: picked that name aside from the name of significance I

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Speaker 1: named after, you know, or he's named after the Jordan River.

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Speaker 1: But one of the reasons I chose that name is

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Speaker 1: that it's a simple name. I don't have to explain

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Speaker 1: to people what it means. And I am that person

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Speaker 1: who spent her entire life saying no h u m A.

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Speaker 1: And it's like Uma Thurman, but with an age and

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Speaker 1: you pronounced the age right. There are certain things I

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Speaker 1: mean you actually pick you're picking up on something very

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Speaker 1: uh I thought, very specific and right is that there

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Speaker 1: are certain things that you you know, you do negotiate on,

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Speaker 1: but other things that you know he I raised him

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Speaker 1: to be proud of his faith and cultural traditions. But

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Speaker 1: there there's some things we accommodate change on. Not yeah,

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Speaker 1: and but it has the meaning. So it's still the

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Speaker 1: meaning still there. Um. So you've managed many people and

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Speaker 1: had to interface. You're constantly interfacing with different types of people,

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Speaker 1: being very diplomatic, having to be that sort of hub

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Speaker 1: switchboard connector. Um, what's your work? What is your work style?

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Speaker 1: Your organizational style? You're getting things done style? What? What?

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Speaker 1: What is that? Well, well, it's my book. I have

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Speaker 1: a little booklet and I put a little square, empty

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Speaker 1: square and with whatever the to do is, and that's

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Speaker 1: my bible. That's how I get That's how I get

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Speaker 1: things done. Because you often are juggling a million things

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Speaker 1: at least I am and I have been for a

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Speaker 1: long time, and so my lists. I live by my

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Speaker 1: lists and staying completely organized. And I've also felt like

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Speaker 1: as I've gotten older, I've gotten more O c D.

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Speaker 1: Like just everything in my my apartment needs to be

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Speaker 1: organized and my closet needs to be clean, and I

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Speaker 1: can't function. It's the only way to get so much,

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Speaker 1: like your condiments are organized and you you don't have

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Speaker 1: a junk drawer. And it's in my book that says

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Speaker 1: I don't have a junk drawer, like because I get

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Speaker 1: your your produce drawer. I know, because I think it's

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Speaker 1: probably because you've seen so much and had to organize

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Speaker 1: so many things in your life professionally that it just

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Speaker 1: you start to see it closer to home and with

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Speaker 1: the pandemic, but in your desk in the order means

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Speaker 1: you can get more things done. You're not like muddling

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Speaker 1: through what's in front of you. And I also feel

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Speaker 1: like so much of my life for many years I

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Speaker 1: was out of my control. Just things were happening to me.

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Speaker 1: Though that the things I can control and that I

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Speaker 1: can organize. I never thought we would have so much

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Speaker 1: in common that my childhood is why I'm so organized

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Speaker 1: now because I was moving everywhere and had none of

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Speaker 1: my pictures from my childhood. We just I just never

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Speaker 1: knew where anything was and I couldn't control that. But

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Speaker 1: and the same thing with work, that's amazing, Wow, that's wild.

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Speaker 1: So what um your parents? What was what was work

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Speaker 1: in your house? What was the What did the word

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Speaker 1: work or career or money mean as a child? Like

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Speaker 1: what what did what did you go into the world

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Speaker 1: wanting to do or thinking that that meant? I think

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Speaker 1: from my parents, you know, my from my far earliest memories,

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Speaker 1: I had to work in my dad's office. Both my

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Speaker 1: parents were academics. My mother was a sociology professor at

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Speaker 1: a girls college and my father was a political scientist.

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Speaker 1: And um and started a foundation and that produced an

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Speaker 1: academic journal twice a year that researched the Muslim minority

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Speaker 1: situation around the world. And so ever since I was

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Speaker 1: six seven eight, we the work ethic in our house

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Speaker 1: was such that it was you had to do the

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Speaker 1: work and then you could play. So it was it

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Speaker 1: was balanced, and it was a good balance. I would

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Speaker 1: sharpen the pencils in my dad's office, or I typed

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Speaker 1: up little index cards or help him with mailing. So

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Speaker 1: there was a sense of purpose, a sense of doing something,

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Speaker 1: and then we could still go out and play and

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Speaker 1: do things. It's just like the way we ate, you know.

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Speaker 1: Balance to me I was I could have ice cream,

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Speaker 1: but I always had to have my fruits and vegetables first.

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Speaker 1: And so my parents were always working. I felt as

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Speaker 1: though even at dinner, after dinner, i'd walk into the kitchen,

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Speaker 1: my mother would be grading papers, my dad would be

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Speaker 1: writing or reading. It was a very academically centered thing.

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Speaker 1: My parents traveled a lot for conferences, so I always

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Speaker 1: wanted to do something I thought was contributing to something.

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Speaker 1: I never thought very much about money. We were comfortable,

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Speaker 1: middle class family. We were growing. We lived in Saudi Arabia,

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Speaker 1: where you know the average You know, you could live

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Speaker 1: well because so many of your expenses were paid for

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Speaker 1: you because they wanted to have experts for an experts

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Speaker 1: come at the time, the country was really just newly

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Speaker 1: flushed for the oil money. So we had a good life.

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Speaker 1: I never worried about money, which is very funny because

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Speaker 1: I worry about money all the time now. Noise I

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Speaker 1: call it money noise. I have it too. It's this

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Speaker 1: constant concern that it's not gonna be enough. I'm not

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Speaker 1: being able to make enough and how do I do it?

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Speaker 1: And it's amazing because I did not grow up feeling

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Speaker 1: and secure about money at all. And I don't know

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Speaker 1: if it's a age thing, it's a cultural thing, if

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Speaker 1: it's something you know that uh happens as we get older.

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Speaker 1: But that's why when I saw Christian I'm on pour

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Speaker 1: on my TV and you know, uh two, I thought

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Speaker 1: I want to be her. She was out in the world.

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Speaker 1: It was the middle of the first was the first

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Speaker 1: Skulf four. She was reporting on the war in Rock

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Speaker 1: and I thought, she's a truth teller, She's powerful, she's fearless.

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Speaker 1: I want to be her. I had to see it,

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Speaker 1: and I had to see it to understand I could

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Speaker 1: be it. But do you feel like you have? I mean,

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Speaker 1: you've achieved so much, but in a different package. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And I still think I might want to become Christian

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Speaker 1: I'm on poor. I mean, you know, I was gonna say,

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Speaker 1: what do you want to be when you grow up?

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Speaker 1: I was going to ask you is one of my questions.

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Speaker 1: I say it all the time, Like what do I

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Speaker 1: want to be when I grew up. I was, actually,

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Speaker 1: that's so weird. I had that as a question. So

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Speaker 1: I've never asked that to anybody. I was gonna ask you,

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Speaker 1: you want to be when you grow up? No. I

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Speaker 1: I was talking to my friend Mike just before I

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Speaker 1: got on with you, and I said, I have to

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Speaker 1: figure out. He's like, how's it going, And I said,

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Speaker 1: I'm having the best time. I'm loving being on the

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Speaker 1: book tour. I love the interviews. But guess what, I

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Speaker 1: now have to figure out what I want to be

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Speaker 1: when I grow up. Because I have found, and you've

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Speaker 1: read the book, Bethany, that my entire professional life, somebody

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Speaker 1: has offered me something and I have said yes in

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Speaker 1: terms of a job. I have never asked for something.

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Speaker 1: I have never been ambitious about something. And in fact,

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Speaker 1: one of the stories that got cut from the book

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Speaker 1: was actually maybe I did leave it in. There was

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Speaker 1: being offered a position when I worked in the Obama administration,

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Speaker 1: and they asked if I wanted uh to be considered

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Speaker 1: for a position me or this other man. And we're

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Speaker 1: sitting in the same room and I said, oh, no,

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Speaker 1: you should hire him. The first thing I said was

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Speaker 1: hire him, because I just assumed he was going to

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Speaker 1: be better than me and smarter than me and more

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Speaker 1: qualified than me. And he didn't get the job, and

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Speaker 1: he was an amazing, huge job and he did do

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Speaker 1: a great job. And I think now me at forty six,

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Speaker 1: I have to shift the way I think and go

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Speaker 1: out into the world and say I want this and

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Speaker 1: I could do it really well, and I have to

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Speaker 1: figure out what that is. I mean, this is my

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Speaker 1: year of saying yes. I've stolen that from Shonda Rhymes,

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Speaker 1: but saying yes also meet I have to ask, and

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Speaker 1: I think that's something I've really only learned the last

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks, Like this book tour has just blown

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Speaker 1: my mind in terms of how intense it's been for

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Speaker 1: my schedule. But I have to make that shift, and

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Speaker 1: so I'm beginning to think through that and figuring out

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Speaker 1: what it is I want to do. And it might

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Speaker 1: be something in the media space, but I know it's

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Speaker 1: not going to be, you know, public office. But I

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Speaker 1: gotta do that. And you know it's not going to

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Speaker 1: just come right because you got too off on the

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Speaker 1: most incredible, magical, crazy track but you didn't go exactly

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Speaker 1: to where you said you wanted to go, so maybe

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Speaker 1: you'll end up there. Now. That's very interesting. It's at

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Speaker 1: Maria Schweverer had said to me because it sounds like

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Speaker 1: your childhood that her family what was expected of her

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Speaker 1: was that you were going to have purpose like you

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Speaker 1: would you would be contributing to the world. And I

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Speaker 1: don't know that that many people talk in that way

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Speaker 1: to their kids. Were also worried about our kids being emotionally, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, use your inside voice, and how are you feeling?

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Speaker 1: And everybody needs to get in a medal and whatever,

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Speaker 1: but we don't talk that much about like, no, you're

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Speaker 1: you're here to contribute something to the world. No one

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Speaker 1: ever told me that. No one ever told me that.

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Speaker 1: It's just so I think that that's something that a

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Speaker 1: lot of the people who have been on the show,

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Speaker 1: who are very successful and kind have really had compelling lives,

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Speaker 1: have had families that instilled that into them. You you're

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Speaker 1: you know, some people have said use me, meaning how

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Speaker 1: how can I be used of use? It sounds like

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Speaker 1: you've definitely done that, but how to really contribute It's

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Speaker 1: such a simple thing, absolutely, you know, I opened the

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Speaker 1: book with a letter. I found that my dad had

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Speaker 1: written this sort of diary page. I found it after

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Speaker 1: he'd passed away. He died when I was seventeen, and

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Speaker 1: I found it twenty years later. Twenty six years later,

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Speaker 1: I found this letter and a bas sickly said, you know,

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Speaker 1: let others say what they will or do what they will.

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Speaker 1: You are responsible in the first instance, to yourself, your

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Speaker 1: principles and values, and ultimately to your higher power, following

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Speaker 1: whatever it is that makes you feel as though you

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Speaker 1: were doing good purpose in the world. My parents showed

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Speaker 1: us by example. They didn't often say you have to

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Speaker 1: do this, you have to do that. All they said

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Speaker 1: was we require you to be educated. What you do

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Speaker 1: with that education is your choice, but it should be used,

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Speaker 1: you know, you should be used for good. And when

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Speaker 1: I walked into the White House, you know, I wasn't

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Speaker 1: even a Democrat when I went to go work in

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Speaker 1: the Clinton administration. It wasn't about that. It was feeling,

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Speaker 1: to use the word you use, feeling purposeful, feeling like

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Speaker 1: you were helping people, and it does something here And

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Speaker 1: even now I find it very hard to explain to

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Speaker 1: people that feeling of walking into a gymnasium during a campaign,

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Speaker 1: into somebody's living room, into into a you know, a

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Speaker 1: hospital when you're on a mission, and you know that

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Speaker 1: if this mission is successful, you are carrying this person's hopes, dreams, fears, aspirations.

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Speaker 1: That's your responsibility, and if your candidate wins or your

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Speaker 1: mission wins, you can maybe help that person. There is

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Speaker 1: nothing as good as that feeling. Yes, that's so true.

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Speaker 1: It's funny because I learned something today. I want we

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Speaker 1: all say I just want my kids to be happy,

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Speaker 1: and I say to my dad, I want you to

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Speaker 1: be happy, and we do. But I don't say I

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Speaker 1: want you to be purposeful, probably because I'm so intentional

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Speaker 1: about everything that I don't think about drilling that into her.

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Speaker 1: And she's also eleven. But I just like that as

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Speaker 1: a thread for us all to sort of think about,

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Speaker 1: because that's a good just change, a little shift in

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Speaker 1: the way we think about how we're messaging them because

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Speaker 1: I tell her I wanted to help people, and we

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Speaker 1: do charity and you don't know what it's like x

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Speaker 1: because she hasn't seen all these people that live in peril.

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Speaker 1: But that's just a nice way to to frame it.

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Speaker 1: I want to know what it was like just every

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Speaker 1: day working at the White House. Does it feel like

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Speaker 1: every other workplace environment or is there a sense of pride?

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Speaker 1: And does it feel elevated and more important every day?

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Speaker 1: You know, workplace antics, water cooler conversation, does everybody just

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Speaker 1: sort of you know, is the game just moving a

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Speaker 1: little more quickly? And does it seem a little more

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Speaker 1: elevated day to day? Working in the White House was

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Speaker 1: nothing less than inspiring. I write in the book and

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Speaker 1: detail about what it felt like walking up to those

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Speaker 1: black wrought iron gates, walking down the driveway into these

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Speaker 1: historic buildings, the White House, the residents, the White Building

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Speaker 1: everyone's familiar with. But I worked in the old Executive

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Speaker 1: office building now called the Eisenhower Building, which is this

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Speaker 1: French Empire style, very large, grand structure that I described

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Speaker 1: as looking very much like a wedding cake in an

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Speaker 1: old wedding cake. Um. But it was nothing less than

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Speaker 1: just thrilling, and you were grounded in that sense of

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Speaker 1: history walking down those marble hallways, walking down that red

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Speaker 1: carpet and up those steps, you know, bent by years

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Speaker 1: of people walking up and down them, and this sort

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Speaker 1: of hushed silence that you felt when you walked through

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Speaker 1: the State floor and the residents. It felt almost otherworldly.

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Speaker 1: It felt um in some ways sacred because it was

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Speaker 1: a space that not a lot of people had an

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Speaker 1: opportunity to live, work and operate in. So every day,

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Speaker 1: you know, that was my first job, and so I

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Speaker 1: had nothing really to compare it to. Um. It felt

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Speaker 1: a lot more elevated than your average experience. And you

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Speaker 1: saw it in the daily work. You saw it in

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Speaker 1: the people coming in from around the world. You saw

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Speaker 1: it in the press conferences and the ribbon cuttings and

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Speaker 1: the signing ceremonies and the announcements that there was important

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Speaker 1: work happening every day that affected not just our country

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Speaker 1: and the people in it, but around the world. And

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Speaker 1: because it was an administration so actively involved in both,

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Speaker 1: you know, domestic policy and foreign policy, it wasn't overwhelming experience,

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Speaker 1: and and and the number of pinch me moments I

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Speaker 1: had I cannot even count. So it felt like a

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Speaker 1: tremendous privilege to be, in some small way a representation,

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Speaker 1: a representative of this administration as it tried to do

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Speaker 1: the work. And there's nothing like it. I bet everybody

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Speaker 1: remembers their very first job. So for me at one

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Speaker 1: for this to be the experience, um, I couldn't even

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Speaker 1: you know, write a better fictional story. It was really amazing.

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Speaker 1: So how do you navigate all of these treacherous waters,

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Speaker 1: like how it seems like has it all been worth it?

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Speaker 1: All the craziness, like that you've been through the mud,

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Speaker 1: all of it. I mean, it sounds like it's can't

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Speaker 1: the good can't outweigh it by a mile. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like it's been pretty brutal. And you also

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk about it in this book. Did you

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Speaker 1: when you finished did you forget anything? Did you say damn,

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Speaker 1: I should have talked about that, or did you get

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Speaker 1: it all out? And then in thinking about it, how

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Speaker 1: did you do it? And was it worth it? It It

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Speaker 1: was absolutely worth it? And for me writing it was therapy.

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Speaker 1: And actually one of the things that I've learned since

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Speaker 1: the book has been out is that you know, to

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Speaker 1: process it is one thing, but I'm going to be

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Speaker 1: working on myself and working on, you know, all the

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Speaker 1: things I went through for the rest of my life.

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Speaker 1: It's like a it's a it's a journey, it's not.

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Speaker 1: But I'm glad to have closed that chapter of my life,

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Speaker 1: you know, in terms of my marriage, which did fall

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Speaker 1: apart on national TV. And in one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: it was so hard because I was in this what

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Speaker 1: I believed was a perfect relationship. I had a man

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Speaker 1: who loved me. I thought I was living a fairy tale.

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Speaker 1: I opened a chapter in my book about waking up

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Speaker 1: a bucking and palace, you know, finding out you know,

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Speaker 1: I knew I was pregnant. I was carrying the secret pregnancy.

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Speaker 1: I was thirty six, he was forty seven. No one

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Speaker 1: ever thought, you know, back then, at least they would say,

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Speaker 1: and you're a You're never gonna get pregnant, You're you know,

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Speaker 1: you're both old. And so we just had this gift.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I cherished that year and a half of just,

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Speaker 1: you know, absolute happiness that I had with him, and

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Speaker 1: I would I can't even say that I regret being

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Speaker 1: with him, because he gave me my son, He gave

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Speaker 1: me the thing I live for now and um And

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Speaker 1: if I did not believe that Hillary Clinton would not

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Speaker 1: have been an incredible president, it would have been a

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Speaker 1: little bit different. But the mission was worth it. The

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Speaker 1: mission in two thousand and eight was worth it. To me,

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Speaker 1: the mission in two thousand and sixteen is worth it

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Speaker 1: to me, so I can't look back on any of

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Speaker 1: it and say that I regretted it. I also want

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Speaker 1: to know something that I'm sure so many people have

410
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Speaker 1: thought about and asked and reflected on in their own relationships,

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Speaker 1: and it is what what exactly if you could? It's

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Speaker 1: probably not just one thing, but what made you stay

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Speaker 1: and what made you for Unless you just stayed but

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Speaker 1: you didn't forgive. So did you stay and then learn

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Speaker 1: to forgive? Did you stay for other people and factors

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Speaker 1: besides yourself, and you regret staying to choose to stay

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Speaker 1: and to choose to forgive? For me, we're actually not

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Speaker 1: the same thing and didn't happen at the same time.

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Speaker 1: I've stayed after Anthony's first revelation, uh in large part

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Speaker 1: because I was a newlywed. I loved my husband. I

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Speaker 1: had made a commitment um to be in a relationship

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Speaker 1: with him for the rest of my life. I was

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Speaker 1: madly in love. I thought I was living a fairy tale,

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Speaker 1: and I was carrying his child. I was not even

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Speaker 1: twelve weeks pregnant when the story broke of his betrayal,

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Speaker 1: and so I was, you know, just living in shock

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Speaker 1: and anger, and and you know, slowly, over time a

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Speaker 1: fair amount of bitterness and resentment towards him. But it

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Speaker 1: it wasn't It was a choice I made, and with

430
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,679
Speaker 1: a choice I made was to stay UM. And the

431
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 1: fiveness took a while, I have. The forgiveness came after

432
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,919
Speaker 1: a period of time where we went, we had to

433
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,120
Speaker 1: go into therapy, we had to work on our marriage.

434
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:13,439
Speaker 1: He had to show that UM, he had you know,

435
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:20,919
Speaker 1: learned something from his transgression and and frankly, it felt

436
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 1: as though to meet it was two different people. The

437
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,399
Speaker 1: person I read about in the paper, I had heard

438
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 1: about in the paper was not the person I was

439
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 1: married to in my mind and my experience that I had,

440
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 1: And I had a very hard time reconciling that over

441
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 1: periods of time. It's just a very different, two different,

442
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 1: you know people. And the forgiveness came over a long

443
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 1: period of time. And then to truly forgive, we had

444
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 1: to actually go through an even harder time in our

445
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 1: marriage several times, two more times, and I had to

446
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,360
Speaker 1: learn that the marriage was not salvageable. We just couldn't

447
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: survive as a married couple. And we had to go

448
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 1: through this very painful process called a disc closure process,

449
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,479
Speaker 1: which we did and came out on the other side

450
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,920
Speaker 1: and are better for it. But it's work, and it's

451
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 1: something you work on when you're in a relationship with

452
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 1: somebody who you share a child with, whether you're married

453
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: or not, you have to work on that relationship for

454
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 1: the rest of your lives. And we will continue to

455
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,439
Speaker 1: do that. And some days are easier than others, some

456
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,640
Speaker 1: days are hard, some days are impossible, and some days

457
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:28,399
Speaker 1: are great. Um, But to forgive it was really a

458
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 1: gift I gave myself because otherwise I was suffering with

459
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,160
Speaker 1: all of the anger and the bitterness and the resentment

460
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: and the confusion. And I'm glad I did, and I'm

461
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 1: glad I had helped getting there. Well, it's come to

462
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 1: me in therapy and different people who have what I

463
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,919
Speaker 1: call quote unquote successful relationships. It doesn't mean they're perfect.

464
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 1: It just means that if they've sustained and they have tools.

465
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 1: Is that we don't work on the other person. We

466
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 1: work on ourselves. So whoever your partner is and whatever

467
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 1: you went through like, you can't quote unquote fixed another person.

468
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:03,919
Speaker 1: You can't work on the other person, you can just

469
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 1: work on yourself. And it's funny because I guess it's

470
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 1: it's so obvious to everyone and they're been documentaries, but

471
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 1: I didn't really think about it until today, about what

472
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: support you and Hillary must have been for each other,

473
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 1: and what a mentor and advice and as women supporting

474
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 1: men publicly for their own reasons. I mean, I said

475
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,880
Speaker 1: to her, like a whole however, many years they've been

476
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 1: married isn't defined by headlines. But you know, just like

477
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: every everybody's relationship isn't defined by Valentine's Day, it's define

478
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: fined by a million stories that no one ever hears.

479
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 1: I don't think your entire relationship is what we read

480
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: about in the paper. So because my assistant, I said,

481
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know if they're still together. I

482
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: know they are good co parents about you, And she said, well,

483
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 1: that that's good night. I like that that she supports

484
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: you know, she supports him, meaning that you're It seems

485
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 1: to me from the very little that I know, that

486
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,360
Speaker 1: you're a support system for your ex regardless of what

487
00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: you've been through, and you're working on yourself and you're

488
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: hoping that he's working on himself doing your own journey. Well,

489
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 1: you know, Bethany, that is something that I had to

490
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: learn the hard way. I mean, at the beginning, when

491
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,439
Speaker 1: our marriage first fell apart, all I could think of

492
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 1: was I have to fix it. I have to fix

493
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 1: my family. And so for me it was, let's we

494
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: went to therapy in Texas and then you know it

495
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: had obviously it happened again and again with him. I

496
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 1: didn't understand addiction. I didn't understand the mental health challenges.

497
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 1: I mean, as somebody and you and I talked earlier

498
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 1: about control, and I was somebody was so controlled my

499
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 1: whole life. I could manage everything. And so for me,

500
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 1: I thought, my god, we're doing the most important work

501
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 1: in the world. You're doing this destroy deeply destructive, ridiculous,

502
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: juvenile behavior. Just knock it off, just stop. And so

503
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 1: I did think I could fix him. And if I

504
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 1: could fix him, that fixed our marriage, and that fixed

505
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 1: our relationship. It took me a few years to understand

506
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,199
Speaker 1: that I could not. And then meanwhile, here I was

507
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: enduring suffering from PTSD, suffering from the betrayal that I mean,

508
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 1: even now as I'm approaching new relationships, I realized that

509
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 1: there is something that's very tender and vulnerable of like

510
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 1: am I am I really ready to have my heartbroken

511
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 1: again because it was shattered in a million pieces in

512
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: front of the entire world. And that's the point I

513
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 1: was making it. We're constantly, you know, working on ourselves,

514
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 1: but we're you know, we're not together as a couple,

515
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: but we will be cool parents forever. And I realized

516
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: I share a story in the book about when he

517
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: was away in prison and my son. You know, I

518
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: was so angry. I had so much bitterness towards him

519
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 1: for so long, for everything he lost because of his behavior,

520
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 1: and realized that my son was actually suffering by not

521
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: seeing his dad. And so for me, it's I mean,

522
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 1: my my the father of my child, to be strong

523
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: and healthy mentally and emotionally and physically so we can

524
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 1: be a good dad, because ultimately it's all about the

525
00:26:53,520 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 1: next generation in my opinion. I was talking about it

526
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: recently with people um in divorces and custody struggles. Judge

527
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: said to me, a custody battle is watching your child

528
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 1: drowning on the end of the dock, swimming begging for

529
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 1: help and you can't rescue them. Like and I almost cry.

530
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: It's it's it's about then, it's whatever's best for them,

531
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: and having a positive relationship with the other parents is

532
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 1: what's best for them. It definess future relationships in every area. Um,

533
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,919
Speaker 1: so how much do you what percentage of anger do

534
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 1: you still have? If any? Because they say holding onto

535
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: anger is drinking poison and hoping the other person dies.

536
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: So how much. The last chapter of my book is

537
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 1: called suffering as optional, And it is because I do

538
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: think I lived for many years a lot of anger

539
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: and a lot of interests, particularly towards Anthony and generally

540
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,360
Speaker 1: at the world. And why is I did a lot

541
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 1: of why is this happening? And why is this happening

542
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: to me? And it was only when I realized that,

543
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: And that's the you know, that's saying, which is whatever

544
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 1: a lot of credit to a lot of people, including Roomy,

545
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: that pain might be necessary, but suffering as optional that

546
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: I had been in pain. I had suffered pain, but

547
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: I was suffering. It was I was suffering, and it

548
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: was only hurting me. It wasn't hurting any of the

549
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 1: external exact it was actually slowly killing me. And I,

550
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: you know, I had to get the lowest, lowest point

551
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: you know I got. I had very frankly, just suicidal

552
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,679
Speaker 1: thoughts and uh. And as somebody who has faith and

553
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: had family and you talked about my relationship with Hillary

554
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: has a incredibly supportive group of female friendships. I will

555
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: tell you even when I'm struggling now, I will always

556
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: go back to those core places. I go to my faith,

557
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: I go to my boss, I go to who is

558
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: my mentor as well. But I go to my girlfriends

559
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: also and realize that that's where um I got a

560
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: lot of strength. But we had to go get professional

561
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: help when I realized I started having very bad thoughts

562
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: about doing something to myself. I needed help. I needed

563
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: help getting out of this hole. I could not do

564
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: it alone. It was brutal the process we went through.

565
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 1: It was so hard. But what I learned, and this

566
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: is what I get up every single day that I

567
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: feel sorry for myself. We were in Paris over the

568
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: weekend for work and I was having really rough time

569
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 1: and and but I still get up every single day

570
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: and think, if I have it bad, somebody has it worse.

571
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: And for me, that is always what gets me to

572
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: the other side. And I went through an almost ten

573
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: year divorce process on a two year marriage and a

574
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 1: custody battle. And I thought of it like golf, I'm

575
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: at the first hole, I'm at the fourth, and then

576
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: I went back to the second because I thought I

577
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: was at the twelfth and I was really at the ninth.

578
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 1: Like you know when you drag back, you thought you

579
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: were out and you're on the way out and you

580
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: were really only half. Okay, you've been there. Um. And

581
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: that helped me, but also probably you know, you know,

582
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: having a public voice, knowing that I would be able

583
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 1: to eventually hopefully I didn't know I would survive thing

584
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: and then have a story to tell, which is what

585
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: you're doing in this book like that you at least

586
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: it's not for you to just tell one girlfriend. You

587
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: get to tell millions of people your story that on

588
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: the other side and how to deal with it, um,

589
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: And how when you're going through such personal pain that's

590
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: not even all of it's not even rational, you know,

591
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 1: you're having very negative, artful, harmful thoughts. How do you

592
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: do that for people going through that with a son?

593
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: How do you compartmentalize? How did you manage that? Because

594
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: I've done that too, What was your coping mechanism? To compartmentalize,

595
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: you're suffering, and then your son. I was lucky that

596
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: I managed to show up for him. I mean, you know,

597
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: and he was five at the time. So I think

598
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: when you have an especially have a child who needs

599
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: literally needs you to to be fed and to be

600
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: bathed and all that, it was a number one. It

601
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: was a great distraction from thinking I've always been very

602
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: good at compartmentalizing. Um, I think it's how I made

603
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: it through. I mean, even you know, when everything fell

604
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: apart in my marriage, I was working at the stage department.

605
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 1: So the idea of feeling sorry for myself and then

606
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: going to you know, the Middle East or Asia and

607
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: Africa working on these really important diplomatic missions, I immediately

608
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: turned on the switch, saying, okay, I have to do

609
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: my work. With Jordan, it was very similar. I would

610
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: come home and just wrapping him in a hug just

611
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 1: made me feel like that was therapy for me under yeah,

612
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: needed it just And there were nights and I write

613
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: about this, I would just crawl into his bed with

614
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: him and just cuddle because I needed that for me

615
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: and I got something. I get that so much. It's

616
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: like feeding. It's so good it's so true. So, um,

617
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: I spoke to Cheryl Sandberg here, who is the number

618
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: two to Mark Zuckerberg, as you know, and she described

619
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: the job description and yours is more of an evolution.

620
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: But when she was talking to him about she said,

621
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: I want to do everything you don't want to do.

622
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: That's my job to do what you don't want to do.

623
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 1: Not not like she has a terrible job, she's a

624
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: pretty great job. But um, being the number two, I

625
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: wonder what exactly, how do you describe what your job

626
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: and your purpose is and was for Hillary? And do

627
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: you ever feel like you're in the shadows and like

628
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: you you have you know, not not for anyone's fault,

629
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,479
Speaker 1: but when you're constantly trying to support and take care

630
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: of someone else, where does that leave you? Where's your

631
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: own identity separate from hers? Well, the mental I mentally

632
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: was in the shadows for a long time. I liked it.

633
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: I was not, you know, I didn't. I didn't like

634
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: being the center of attention. I share a story in

635
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: the book that even on my wedding day when I walked,

636
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: when I started walking down the aisle, I realized, oh

637
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: my god, everyone's looking at me and I hated it.

638
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: I actually did not like so and maybe that's just

639
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 1: my genetic makeup. I was fine being in the shadows.

640
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: But it's funny that you talk about Cheryl because I

641
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: do think I had a very similar The role that

642
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: I had and have with my boss is I often

643
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: am a bad guy. I mean, people come with all

644
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: kinds of crazy ideas we should do this, and we

645
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: should launch this, and we've got this project, we should

646
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: explore that, and I, you know, I I would say

647
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: sometimes my office is often where dreams come to die.

648
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: I'm the no person and it is that you need somebody,

649
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: and especially when you're at that operating at that level,

650
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: as you know, the job that Cheryl has are the

651
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: job that you know Hillary has had over the years.

652
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 1: You need that person who can be the bad guy,

653
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: the person who's managing, Okay, how do we actually use

654
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: our time, What is the way to help more people?

655
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: What is the smart thing to do? And a lot

656
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: of it's managing. A lot of it's just you know,

657
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: as you said, I think we meant this earlier, is

658
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: just the diplomacy and figuring out how to talk to

659
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: people and deal with people and to be able to

660
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: look forward, not to be so in the nitty gritty,

661
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: but to think about the chess board, not checkers. Are you? Um?

662
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 1: So you say are a workaholic, And I want to

663
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: know what the definition of a workaholic is because I

664
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: knee down time I take it. I stack and stack,

665
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: so it's so crazy, so I then can take it.

666
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: But then maybe it's two feast or famine. So I'm

667
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: curious what your definition of workaholic is. So my dad

668
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: always told me when I was growing up that a

669
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: good life is a balanced life, but I did not

670
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 1: follow that advice at all. I, in fact, you know,

671
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:16,280
Speaker 1: recounts so clearly being at a family wedding and getting

672
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: a call from the White House saying do you want

673
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: to go to Argentina for the first lady? And I

674
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 1: left the wedding, I immediately said yes. Like I called

675
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 1: that my fork in the road moment, where on the

676
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: one hand, right in front of me was one path

677
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 1: getting married, family, community, just having this wonderful weekend, and

678
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 1: the other was jumping on a plane to Buenos Aires.

679
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: I jumped on the while married. No, No, this is

680
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: when I when I was a twenty two year old

681
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: young staff person. Oh, because I was going to ask

682
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: about that personality in a relationship. Well, let me that

683
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: that had to Okay, let me tell you what I'm

684
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: now realizing. One of the things about what was unique

685
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: about my relationship with Anthony was that he had the

686
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: same job that Hillary had and that he was a

687
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 1: member of He got it, and that is hard. It's

688
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,399
Speaker 1: hard in relationships. It was hard when I was dating

689
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 1: before I married Anthony. It's hard now when people are like, wait,

690
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: you're going off to what where? What? You know? I'm

691
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:12,280
Speaker 1: sure you've you know, we can be intimidating women for uh,

692
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 1: you know, somebody who's ask out or do something, you know,

693
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: ask God on a date. And I get all that.

694
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 1: But I chose going to work. And for me it

695
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: was constantly. My days would start five six am and

696
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: they would go till midnight. I never stopped. I would

697
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: I would fall asleep responding to emails. I'd get up

698
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night responding to emails. I

699
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: mean that is how I functioned. I didn't. I get it.

700
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 1: Nobody functions like that anymore. By the way, It's not

701
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,399
Speaker 1: the Lord life balance and does it's not. I know,

702
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: it's it's really a breed and you would love many

703
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 1: of the people I speak to here Ian Traeger, He's like,

704
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:50,359
Speaker 1: it's in me, it's in my blood. It's twenty four

705
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: a day. It's very It's like this is like a

706
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,439
Speaker 1: support group of people like us to understand each other.

707
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: Because I get it. I've done it all from the

708
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: bottom to the top. I fully get it. But I'm

709
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 1: wondering as you get into the dating pool and date

710
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 1: just because Anthony got it, doesn't mean that's good for

711
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: a relationship. Just because you're both talking about the thing

712
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 1: the whole time in the business, you could be sucking

713
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: the life out of the relationship without even realizing it.

714
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: There has to be a balance there, so so so true.

715
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 1: I mean I did find that, you know that certain

716
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 1: people it was hard. You know. I would be at

717
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: events too late at nights, and I said, you want

718
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: to just come to the dinner? Do you want to

719
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: just come to the fundraiser? Do you want to just

720
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,479
Speaker 1: come to the cocktail party? And the first couple of times,

721
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 1: the guys that always say sure, and then after a

722
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: few times they say, why don't you call me when

723
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: you're done? And we could yeah, like it's a and

724
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: I would and I write about this in the book

725
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: that my male colleagues never seemed to have this problem.

726
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: Like the women who were their dates at the hot

727
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: amorous parties in New York back in the nineties and

728
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: the two thousand's, they loved being at these receptions, and

729
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 1: I felt like it was a very guy girl thing.

730
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: And maybe that's just me, but that was certainly my

731
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: experience that it was. It was. It was much harder

732
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 1: for me to date just you know, somebody who didn't

733
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: understand um, understand that world. And I'm trying to figure

734
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: it out. I have found balance, though, I mean now,

735
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 1: and my millennial staff remind me of it all the time.

736
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: I'll say, let's do a call on Saturday, and they'll say,

737
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: we're not doing a call on Saturday. You know that's hilarious. Well,

738
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 1: the guys, the guys who would want to be there,

739
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: that's red flags because sometimes you I bet, don't you

740
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: have to know, don't let everybody, don't give up any

741
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: the keys to the kingdom until they've earned them, because

742
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:32,879
Speaker 1: you're gonna bring him into these events. These people you know,

743
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: you know by their first names to them would be

744
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: their millennium, you know what I mean, so you have

745
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 1: to be careful because you don't want to give them

746
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 1: the keys of the kingdom until they deserve that's a trust,

747
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 1: well said, you know. Um, uh, so is there anything

748
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 1: good about Hillary not winning? Has there anything been positive

749
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: overall for both of you? For her, for the whole experience? Uh?

750
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 1: In learning, it's such a about her not winning. You know.

751
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 1: I get up every and it's not an exaggeration. Every

752
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: day I think about how I believe the world would

753
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,720
Speaker 1: have been a better place if she had won. In um,

754
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:10,760
Speaker 1: I think the only good thing about her not winning

755
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 1: is that she's been able to spend quality time with

756
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: her family, in particularly her grandchildren, and she seems to

757
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 1: really not scenes she revels in it. I mean, just

758
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: to see the joy on her face when we were traveling,

759
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 1: uh and one of her grandchildren or her daughter facetimes her.

760
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 1: It's just lights up her life. And if she were

761
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 1: president right now, she just would not have had that

762
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,919
Speaker 1: time and capacity to be doing all these things with them,

763
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,839
Speaker 1: to plant a garden with them, to go on these

764
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 1: long walks and hikes and family vacations. So if you're

765
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 1: asking me, which no one's asked me, by the way,

766
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,919
Speaker 1: the one thing that's it for her. And I say

767
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 1: that for her, I think that is something that you

768
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 1: know she's gotten. I still think, you know, she had

769
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 1: so much to offer the world in the country. Um,

770
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,720
Speaker 1: but you know she she is a glass half full person.

771
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: I'm often the glass half empty, but I'm trying to

772
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 1: try to be better about it. Um. I would say,

773
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 1: that's what it is. And what about for you? Um wow,

774
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,879
Speaker 1: working on yourself writing the book? Yeah, I think I

775
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 1: think working on a Look. If she'd want I obviously

776
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 1: would not have written the book. I wasn't sure what

777
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: I was gonna do if she'd won. I had was

778
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: sort of agnostic about going back to Washington, had been

779
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: I'd worked in the White House, I'd sort of to

780
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 1: some extent, been there, done that. I didn't know what

781
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: my job. All these people who thought, oh my god,

782
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: you must have been for yourself, your ambitions, it's like, actually,

783
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 1: wasn't my ambition. I I did that for her. I

784
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 1: did that campaign because she asked me to work on it.

785
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: I didn't know what I would have done if she

786
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 1: had won. Um, but I guess if it allowed me

787
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 1: to become emotionally and mentally healthy, you're right, I don't.

788
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 1: I don't know what I would have done. Maybe Anthony

789
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: and I would have never you know, I don't know.

790
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: It's such an I don't know what I maybe the book, Yes,

791
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 1: the book, for sure. It's been good therapy. And and

792
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: every time I get a message, you know, I'm not

793
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 1: big on social media, but I've had to be on

794
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: because of the book tour. And when I get messages

795
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: from people, especially women, talking about what the story has

796
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,839
Speaker 1: done for them or you know, meant to them. I mean,

797
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: I ran into a woman the other day. It just

798
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 1: happens constantly where they just you know, either break down

799
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: in tears or say I've gone through this, and when

800
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: I read your story helps me get through mine, I thought,

801
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 1: all right, that's a little service. Oh my god, you

802
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 1: needed to go. You can't be half pregnant. Yes, you

803
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 1: needed to go all the way to help other people,

804
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,399
Speaker 1: not just for the sake of being salacious and just

805
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: to you know, but you sometimes you need to say

806
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,359
Speaker 1: something to to help somebody. You know, you really need

807
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: to explain the story and how you feel in the truth.

808
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: And uh, it's obviously easier with wisdom and hindsight, you know,

809
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 1: and looking at looking behind you, Um, what do you

810
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: can have? What percentage lucky? What percentage smart are you?

811
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 1: I would say fifty fifty. I would say it's a

812
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 1: combination of fate, luck, hard work. UM. I never believed

813
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 1: I was the smart even when I started to the

814
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: White House. I was not the smartest. I was not

815
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:03,839
Speaker 1: the prettiest. I was not any of this. However, I

816
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 1: was prepared to outwork everybody, and that is one of

817
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: the reasons I got um I and I was open

818
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 1: to different things. Even now when I go to college

819
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 1: campuses and young people say, how did you How did

820
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 1: you know you're gonna be so successful? I didn't know.

821
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 1: I know you didn't. I had no idea. What I

822
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: did know was that I was prepared to put in

823
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 1: the work. I was prepared to do the work, and

824
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 1: I was prepared to try different things. I mean, I

825
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:28,399
Speaker 1: was at a university the other day and this young

826
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:30,800
Speaker 1: man says, I'm setting engineering, but I, you know, I

827
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: really liked theater. I said, we'll take a theater class.

828
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,919
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't just do journalism. I did other things,

829
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 1: and look where I ended up. And so I applied

830
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 1: for a White House internship, even when I never thought

831
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: I'd get it, and I got it. Yeah, but yes,

832
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: but it's funny you say that. So people asking they

833
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: think that you sort of or I knew we'd be successful,

834
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 1: like what And you knew that you'd work hard, but

835
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,399
Speaker 1: you didn't know how much other people don't work hard,

836
00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: so you didn't know even then. So for people, listen,

837
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people that work really hard

838
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 1: and are smart. There are a lot of people that

839
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: don't work really hard, and there's so for the people

840
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,240
Speaker 1: that are willing to work hard, you have no shot

841
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 1: if you're not willing to really go all the way in.

842
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 1: So if deciding whether to have a business or not

843
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 1: or go for it, you've got to know what you're

844
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: made of and if you're going to, you know, go

845
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 1: through pain, not suffering, but you really it's if you

846
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: gotta it shows you what you're made of being successful. Well, look,

847
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 1: you're you're a look of the inspiration you are to

848
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: so many people. I mean, what you have done with

849
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 1: your life and that is a good model for the

850
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,359
Speaker 1: rest of us. And you can't just expect things are

851
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 1: going to happen to you, no way to not even

852
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 1: help and get it. And even now you asked me

853
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 1: earlier about what I want to do when I grew up.

854
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: I've been wandering around for two months saying, this is

855
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 1: an amazing opportunity, and I'm, you know, open to all

856
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 1: kinds of okay, but now I gotta go and do

857
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 1: something about it now, and they might not see you

858
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 1: in that space. You're gonna have to recreate yourself. I

859
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 1: walked into philanthropy a nobody that couldn't get flip flops.

860
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,760
Speaker 1: I swear and rain boots for Hurricane Harvey in Texas.

861
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 1: Nothing And I was a nobody after I had been

862
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 1: successful in other things. But what the hell are they

863
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 1: gonna give me their money? In another world of philanthropy,

864
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 1: I had to start from the beginning, and now it's

865
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 1: like several hundred million dollars. It's crazy. So yeah, you

866
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 1: got it just but that's the same thing as that

867
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 1: marathon one ft in front. Do the best you can

868
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: in the moment, do it to the best of your ability,

869
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: or don't do it at all. What is your rose

870
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: and your thorn of your career? I wrote a book

871
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 1: called Businesses Personal. Your business is very personal too. They've

872
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: been very unintentionally intertwined. I just thought about a lot

873
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 1: of blend there. So what's your rose in your thorn

874
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 1: of your career? Well, my rose and my thorn of

875
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 1: my career, and I will start with the rose. And

876
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: it's not talked about very often, but it really was

877
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: that um January night in New Hampshire in two thousand

878
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 1: and eight when Hillary Clinton won the New Hampshire primary

879
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 1: after several days of people telling us it could not

880
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,360
Speaker 1: be done, and her being down on the polls, and

881
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 1: she had lost Iowa to Barack Obama and everyone had

882
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: expected her to win. And it was a time when

883
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 1: and I would I argue that things have not changed

884
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 1: very much, but it was very hard for women in

885
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,800
Speaker 1: politics and the sex of them, and the blatant people

886
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 1: making comments like, oh, Hillary Clinton comes on TV. I

887
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 1: want to involuntarily cross my legs and everyone would laugh.

888
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 1: And you know, no one called out the comments. No

889
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: one said, don't comment on her clothes or you know

890
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 1: how she talks. But to have lost and then in

891
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 1: there's three days and I remind people and I just

892
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 1: tell the story in the book of you know that

893
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 1: was the experience where men were holding up sign saying

894
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 1: iron my shirt, iron my shirt. And we lived in

895
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: this cauldron of negativity and everyone thinking that we were

896
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: about the whole campaign was about to fall apart, and

897
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 1: here was this one woman who made history for your daughter,

898
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:01,800
Speaker 1: for women girls in this country. And so I write

899
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: about that moment looking at her and thinking wow, you know,

900
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 1: and and the reason I mentioned it is because it's

901
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: talked about so little. No one has done since then

902
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 1: what she's done. That was a long time ago, Bethany.

903
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 1: No one has, not a single woman has won a

904
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 1: presidential primary or a caucus in this country. And it's

905
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 1: two And what does that say to me? That was

906
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,879
Speaker 1: a wow? Was that a rose? That was your dude,

907
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 1: you're my hero moment? That was a dude, you here,

908
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: and that we've achieved something together, that this was worth it.

909
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: And then obviously my thorn was the election night in

910
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 1: sixteen and the comey letter and and that and the

911
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:43,399
Speaker 1: experience of having to carry that with me every day,

912
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 1: feeling some sense of responsibility in her loss in And

913
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 1: that's been very hard. Yeah, that the phrase the emails

914
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 1: must make you like shut well, but not any more

915
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,720
Speaker 1: now I'm all in. It's like, bring it on, because

916
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:01,880
Speaker 1: I feel that when you then see what happened afterwards,

917
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: when you then realize there was another investigation going on

918
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 1: at the same time about the other side that was

919
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: kept private. Then when you realize that we were you know,

920
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 1: there's oh, there's nothing to see here, that it really

921
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: was the story. You could just use the word emails,

922
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: and that was the bad word, and it was an

923
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: effective tool and it worked against her. Um even you know,

924
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 1: when you have somebody every day saying multiple times a day,

925
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 1: lock her up, lock her uplocker up, even if you're

926
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 1: somebody who knows nothing. Yeah, it's in the middle. You know,

927
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 1: maybe huh, maybe she did something. I don't know what,

928
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 1: but you don't even know what you're talking exactly. It's

929
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 1: just programming. It's so true. Do you um are you

930
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: teflon now? Do you even care what people think anymore?

931
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 1: You must have cared so much and you had to

932
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 1: live it every day and pulls and you being part

933
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 1: of it. And you don't like attention. You don't like

934
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 1: a good or bad. You're at least one of these

935
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:52,800
Speaker 1: people that doesn't want to relish in the positive but

936
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 1: then hate the negative. You don't want it either way.

937
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: So you had it. But do you now just feel like,

938
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 1: who gives a shit, like what they think. I've been

939
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 1: through everything. I've been through the mud. Here we go.

940
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 1: I'm teflon now, yes, yes, I don't you know even

941
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: I've I've even found it at dinner parties. Uh in

942
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: the well pre COVID obviously, um, but post and before,

943
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 1: you know, even when I was a diplomat, and you know,

944
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: people would say, oh, well, if only Hilary had done this,

945
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: So only if you guys did this, if you do that,

946
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 1: And I would say, very politely, like just sit and listen.

947
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 1: And now I just go right at it and say,

948
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,359
Speaker 1: all right, let's unpack this. What's your argument why I

949
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 1: have No, I don't care about the negative I I um,

950
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 1: I think that my boss could wander around and say,

951
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 1: I told you said a lot of people these days

952
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 1: and she'd be right. Um, So it doesn't bother me

953
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:42,720
Speaker 1: at all. I think, you know, I think I still

954
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,320
Speaker 1: have a little bit of of trauma over my personal

955
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,399
Speaker 1: sort of you know, I'm trepidacious on the personal front

956
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: a little bit. I meant that too, No, I meant

957
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: in general. Yeah, I meant just like if you're written

958
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:55,880
Speaker 1: about do you care? Does it still hurt your feelings

959
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:57,760
Speaker 1: or you've been through the war at that, I thought

960
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,919
Speaker 1: I would imagine it's because I I not to that level.

961
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 1: But I know what that feels like, and it's a

962
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: good feeling. I know you don't care. The first time

963
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: you read your name in print, you what do they?

964
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 1: And then you just get who cares? Keep going? You

965
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 1: know it's nothing, it's it's day ending and why So

966
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,359
Speaker 1: I was just wondering how that was with you. Yes,

967
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 1: one of the things that is for a mental hell,

968
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 1: I don't I don't read the tabloids. I just don't.

969
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not thankfully in the in the in

970
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 1: them anymore. But although it was a regular occurrence, and

971
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 1: and I would you know, I immediately tense up with me.

972
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 1: I know, you get an email from a publicist and like,

973
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 1: what someone's been through my purse? I have a keylo

974
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 1: of cocaine and I've never done like You're just like,

975
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: what's wrong with me? Something's in my trunk. There were

976
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 1: always for the and the book at one point was

977
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,280
Speaker 1: called racing. I spelt so much in my life racing

978
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 1: for what you know, white knuckling the whole thing. Yes,

979
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 1: all right, so tell the listeners give the name of

980
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 1: your book and just simply why you wrote it, which

981
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,359
Speaker 1: I think is clear already. But my memoirs called both

982
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 1: and A Life in Many Worlds, And I wrote it

983
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: because I wanted to share my story. I was tired

984
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:00,320
Speaker 1: of everyone else to the point we we were just

985
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: having a conversation about people telling our truths, and I

986
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 1: wanted to tell my own truth, reclaim my story. And

987
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 1: and it's a It's been an amazing experience to be

988
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:11,320
Speaker 1: able to share with the world. And it's got everything

989
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,280
Speaker 1: from faith to family, to friendship, to love and heartbreak

990
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 1: and how to make it in this world. And it's

991
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:18,879
Speaker 1: a coming of age story in a way that I'm

992
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: so proud to be able to share with the readers. Well,

993
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 1: I am so honored to have met you. I was

994
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 1: such a great conversation. I'm so surprised at the commonalities

995
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 1: that I'm a little you know, I just didn't think

996
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:34,879
Speaker 1: i'd have anything in common with you necessarily. I'm you're

997
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 1: a strong woman, smart, But this is amazing. Wow, Thank

998
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: you so much. I really appreciate the conversation. I feel

999
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 1: exactly the same way. I've been such a fan and

1000
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 1: admirer of yours from Afar. I was thrilled to be

1001
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 1: asked to be on this podcast, and I would love

1002
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 1: to maybe have a chance to, you know, have another

1003
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 1: conversation with you sometimes I've loved We'll get together, have

1004
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 1: a great day, and good luck and congratulations, and I'm

1005
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 1: happy for you. That was whom I avidan. She's amazing,

1006
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 1: she was interesting. I love the conversation. She's telling us

1007
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 1: her story and her own words without just being judged

1008
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 1: by headlines. And you're just trying to trigger her and

1009
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 1: get her to say things that can be picked up

1010
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 1: in the press. It's just not what we do. I

1011
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 1: just told her, it's not a gotcha conversation. I just

1012
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 1: want to talk and hear who she is, because she's

1013
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 1: an interesting, fascinating person who's seen a lot, and I

1014
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: think you'll enjoy the conversation, regardless of your political views

1015
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 1: or mine. I have everyone on this show, and I

1016
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: don't care if someone is a Republican or a Democrat

1017
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: or who they work for. I care about what they

1018
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 1: have to say and what they've been through. So remember

1019
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 1: to rate, review, and subscribe, and have a wonderful day.