WEBVTT - Ben Silverman and Howard T. Owens: Building a Startup with Scale 0:00:06.320 --> 0:00:10.399 Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcasts featuring conversations with 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:14.360 industry leaders about the business of entertainment. I'm Cynthia Littleton, 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:18.040 business editor of Variety. Today. My guests in l A 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:21.599 are Ben Silverman and Howard Owens, co heads of the 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:25.880 content company Propagate. Benn and Howard have been partners on 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:28.520 and off for years, since their days in the nineteen 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:32.120 nineties working at the William Morris Agency. Today they have 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:35.199 big ambitions to build Propagate into a major player in 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:38.880 the global content arena. They spent most of two thousand 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:41.879 and eighteen putting building blocks in place thanks to the 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:46.400 investment Propagate received from Rain Group. Here, Ben and Howard 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:51.320 discussed the economic landscape for content, wrestling over writes with fires, 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:54.640 and why their company is also in the talent management business. 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:58.080 And they also reflect on their past lives as network 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:04.319 executives and just how much those jobs have changed. Ben 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:07.800 Silverman and Howard Owns of Propagate Content. Thank you very 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:11.160 much for stopping by and joining us today. Absolutely in 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:13.640 the end, nice to be in the in the Variety 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:18.280 studios where it all happens in Los Angeles. Um, you 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:20.280 guys had a big two thousand eighteen, a lot of 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:23.360 things went down. You started the year with an investment 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:27.040 from Rain Group, and then you turned around and bought Electus, 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:30.240 Ben's previous company that he started in two thousand nine. 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:32.720 And by the end of the year you had recruited 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:36.399 Greg Lipstone, who had been running All three Media America 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:40.440 and is a veteran of the unscripted and talent agency world. 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:44.360 And Electus has also brought you a big position in 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:48.120 the talent management company Artists First. So how does all 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:50.600 this activity set you up for two thousand nineteen? What 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:53.160 are your big priorities for the year. Well, a lot 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:58.480 of retreats, you know, as we build culture and integrate 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:02.520 all the really incredible exacts across the companies. We love 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:06.800 Peter Principato and the Artist First business. They are so 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:13.360 impressive and have built an incredible organization and have amazing 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:18.200 produced sial ability as well as a deep, deep roster 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:23.040 of brilliant storytellers and artists. And we love the name too, 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:27.000 Artists First because we're very much artists driven in our 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:31.760 philosophy and um, two thousand nineteen is the year we gotta, 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:34.160 you know, really elevate it and make it all work. 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:38.960 We're not done in our acquisitions and ambitions for growth 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:42.200 in terms of the inorganic, but we also want to 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:45.200 now put the pedal of the metal and really turn 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:49.200 on the dynamics that had been kind of frozen between 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:54.400 artists first and um its ability to expand beyond because 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.520 they had been in the sales process with Electus and 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:01.800 so Howard and I are focused on continuing to up 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:06.800 the premium content that we are making at scale for 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:10.720 everyone from the History Channel to Netflix to Amazon, UM 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:15.880 to Apple to UM NBC, and we also are looking 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:20.160 to grow our premium scripted business. We're currently in production 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:25.520 on three big scripted series, Charmed, Jane the Virgin going 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:28.720 into its final year, and Blood and Treasure coming on CBS, 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:32.000 as well as a myriad of really great high end 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:37.800 development and we're looking to just grow all those businesses. 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:42.360 Were maybe build out our unscripted franchises and really um 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:46.080 you know, get back to the business of creating UM 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:50.480 you know, culture changing content. And you saw in January 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:53.640 with the launch a Mass Singer and and Tighten Games. 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:56.440 You know, those still the way and not only that, 0:03:56.520 --> 0:03:58.400 those are still the shows that can move the needle 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:02.800 the fastest for big outlets and big Netford high concept 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:05.360 unscripted you still see. I mean, I know that was 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:07.360 one of the things that you guys both major you know, 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:10.520 major names on and there's been a lot of talk about, 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:14.040 you know, has that moment passed? Can anything breakthrough? And 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:17.400 clearly it can and it's all about originality. We have 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:21.560 an amazing h show at Fox that we're not allowed 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:24.719 to announce yet, but go ahead, they won't mind, you 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:30.360 know that we're in production on great Talent Auspices and 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:33.159 uh and it's one that Howard and I have believed 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.039 in for literally fifteen years, you know, kind of since 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:40.359 we started in this industry and built kind of the 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:43.640 reality business, you know, on the heels of the work 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:47.279 we did William Morris and Revel with the little show 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:49.919 called Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? Can you believe 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:52.720 it's been twenty years, you know, it's unbelievable and it's 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:55.720 still on the air, still on the air. But in 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:57.760 the wave of all of that, you know, there was 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:00.279 a moment and you you actually chronicled it, you know, 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:02.800 where if it had an accent, you know, we were 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:06.680 involved in its its translation to America and then the world, 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:10.520 and I think the areas that we have real kind 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:15.479 of continued first mover and separation from our competition is 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:19.880 we're super internationally oriented. We invested in a big international 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:23.279 company as well, called it Incomdo out of France. We 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:26.680 have a partnership in Brazil with Formata, and we are 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:31.880 growing our international UM platform. Were in production on Spanish 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:35.320 language series, on French series. We had the November thirteenth 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:38.840 documentary series on Netflix this summer with the Not Day 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:44.000 Brothers Indian series and based on a format that's about 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:46.040 to be made in India going in production. I just 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:49.920 heard this morning I sighting in Brazil as well the 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:52.479 second season in Portuguese. So what you know is for 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:56.279 like Netflix or for streaming there for all different kinds 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:58.760 of outlets. So the Indian one is for Amazon, the 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:01.320 French one was for net Likes, the Spanish language one 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:04.560 is for Netflix, and the Brazilian one was for Brazilian 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:09.240 broadcast television actually, And so we're scaling our international and 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:13.039 coupled with that, we're going to be accelerating the growth 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:17.640 for artists first internationally and that model of UM talent 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:23.960 lead UH production orientation we believe in completely and UM 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:26.400 and so that's another element as well as all the 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:28.920 i P that we're able to drive out of the 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:32.240 global markets, you know, just like Jane the Virgin and 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:35.800 Ugly Betty before that. We're from Colombia and Venezuela. We 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:38.880 have a string of great new i P in development, 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:42.680 including Strong Girl UM with CBS and CW based on 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:46.720 the hip hot Korean format, and we continue to kind 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:50.200 of identify I think the best of the international market 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:53.640 for translation, but also as we did in selling our 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:58.400 shows internationally, are doing it in reverse. But the key 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:03.200 answer to your you know question is in acquiring Electus Notional, 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:08.839 the big breakfast franchise which makes Adam Ruins everything and 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:12.120 artists first, as well as a minority stake in Authentic, 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:15.840 the management company in New York, which hasn't been reported on. 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:20.239 We want to integrate these into a you know, creative led, 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:25.800 talent led global studio model for the future. How we 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:30.800 can control rights and battle to UM you know, retain 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:34.520 as much as possible in a world of accelerated vertical 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:39.640 integration remains the biggest challenge UM, and we're looking at 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:44.360 ways to do that and to accelerate those opportunities you know, 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:48.240 we have used advertisers a great deal in the kind 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:52.440 of previous decade to to align with around that, and 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:55.400 we're still wide open to and interested in figuring out 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:57.840 how they come back to the table in terms of 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:00.640 bringing them in as financing partners from the get go. 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:07.640 The shore co producers are finance and they are clamoring 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:11.240 because for re entry into a system that's kind of 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:14.560 been closing them out on in Netflix, Apple and Amazon's 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:18.880 ecosystems where they're not invited or welcome at the table, 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:21.680 and so we think there's opportunity there as well. And 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:26.720 with Greg lipstones arrival, you know, having another senior level 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:31.600 executive to support Howard and I and help really you know, 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:34.920 run the run the day to day operations while we're 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:38.199 building it out. And also the brilliant executives we've brought 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:41.760 in from Electus Drew Buckley who's done a great job 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:46.440 at Electus and is now part of the organization also 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:52.360 and seeing Matthew and then the incredible capacity of the 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:55.760 executives inside um artists first, you know, we don't just 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:58.120 think of them as managers. We think of them as 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:01.880 executive talent. And and Dobbins and David Gardner and Joel's 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:06.360 Zaidak and Peter Principato across the board, you know, have 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:10.400 such deep relationships, access and insight into the industry, and 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:14.520 that's something we're excited to unlock more than they're kind 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:19.079 of quotitian, you know, business of the generation before in 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:23.720 the management side, the percentage business represented talent exactly. Um. 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:26.040 Let me I ask all the producers that I talked 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:30.320 to these days this question. Clearly, the the you know, 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:34.120 the business models and the industry are are changing seismically. YouTube. 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:37.680 We're both so far ahead of how the business was changing, 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:40.720 you know, going on twenty years ago. But now it 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:44.560 really feels like it is becoming a business of upfront 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:48.600 money as opposed to back in success. How does that 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:51.920 change the way you guys go about doing your business. 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:58.240 Is television becoming a cost plus business for producers making 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:02.160 money independent producers such a yourselves? Yeah, I mean, you know, 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:06.480 obviously because of the trend. We want to take advantage 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:08.720 of that trend. You know, we want to sell series 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:12.280 and get multiple seasons and get as much um, you know, 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:16.760 upfront and um as much revenue and money as possible 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:19.120 in the series that we're committed to in selling, but 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:23.280 I think our artists first, our entry, our relationships with 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:27.679 artists first, and our management talent relationships as well as 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:32.160 our international production platforms as well as our ability to 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:35.360 work with brands and advertisers are all different ways that 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:38.480 we're looking to, as we like to say, form a 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:43.640 quicker and more efficient path to production, but also opportunities 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:46.360 to create different in emerging business models, you know, on 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.559 one level and on a big macro level. For us, 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:53.440 we've always believed in international you know, as our conversation 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:57.800 is already UM alluded to UM, but we believe there's 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:01.560 an opportunity to be making programs globally around the world, 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:04.400 and as part of that, there are rights positions and 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:07.439 not you know in countries that we're dealing with has 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.679 been referenced, you know, Brazil, where we're in business with 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:15.760 a broadcaster. UM. There are still businesses that rely on 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:19.280 co production models, and still businesses that rely on partnerships 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:24.040 where there are ownership opportunities and where they're legally regulated 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:29.600 to force ownership onto the independent sector, something that we 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:32.480 think should happen in America, you know, as I wouldn't 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:35.439 hold your breath in this political environment, you never know. 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:38.480 Usually you never know. I'm with you, just because of 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:42.120 the hatred he has for all of the big malforms 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:46.079 and the fact that he doesn't feel his voice gets 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:49.680 hurt as the president. You know that. I think it's 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:54.400 actually shocking that under a republican regime you could potentially 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:59.199 see that emerge. But regardless, there is a moment in time. 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:04.000 I think with the conversation ongoing about the consolidation now 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:09.640 affecting what consumers see and the clear directive of all 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:13.320 these media platforms to kind of come out with one 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:18.760 version of a conversation, it is going to be a 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:22.400 moment where we need to go backwards and create independent 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:26.200 sector and independent voice again. And we we believe in 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:29.960 that from the success of how content can develop and 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:32.760 arrive and connect with an audience that it can't just 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:36.239 all be two edited babies fed from the same machinery 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:40.320 companies that are going to control. And it's so dramatically different. 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:43.480 In the UK were literally by law there is there's 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:47.400 very strict rules like the United States had thirty We 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:52.240 were as agents in helping develop path strategy back twenty 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:57.240 plus years ago to get a quota of percent fed 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:00.920 through the independent sector where they were owning the rights. 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:02.520 Part of it is based on the fact that the 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:07.520 BBC was funded by the government and the net result 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.720 of it was though that those companies became so successful 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:14.080 and export market developed because they cared about every penny 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:18.040 more than a large conglomerate wood holding onto multiple rights 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:21.199 that it may not exploit. And then those companies drove 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:25.120 value on the alternative investment market, which is you know, 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:28.600 kind of the nas deck of London, and billions of 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:32.280 dollars of wealthware created, jobs were built and there's a 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:36.480 real narrative to that that has worked in other markets. 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:39.200 So we continue to invest in those markets as well, 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:43.160 because there are places where the rights disposition is better 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:47.120 suited for producers. But I think, to answer your question directly, 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:51.400 it's requiring us to think a little differently. It's requiring 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:56.120 us Howard said that creativity around business models. Yes, but 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:59.360 we need to get more volume on one hand, because 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:01.840 it's the only way that it can equal what we're 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:04.280 losing on the back end. And we still need to 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:06.000 play the game for the big hits, and we need 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:09.760 to take risk upfront, spend more money on development, build 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:13.360 bigger packages, in house so that we can leverage the 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:16.440 marketplace to retain rights where we can. Do you find 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:19.360 I mean the sense, my sense is that it's it's 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:22.080 becoming a very monolithic business. And you go into Netflix, 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:24.800 and you go into CBS, you going to NBC Universal 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:27.000 and they say, great, we'd like that. We'll pay you. 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:28.840 We'll pay you this, and we'll pay you can take 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:32.960 your or on top and we'll take everything. But is 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:35.720 there more negotiating room if you if you walk in 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.160 the door with I P well, it really want I 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:41.400 was gonna actually uh then I played phone tag on 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:43.160 the way over here. So I'm on the way over here. 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:45.920 I'm on the phone with the UK partner who's in 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:49.480 production on a series for us in the UK making 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:52.600 here right, and so it's a great format. It's on 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:56.880 broadcast network here and he got a multi episode order 0:14:57.000 --> 0:15:00.200 and it's a big priority for us to show. So 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:03.360 we're obviously taking out our big new projects now at 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:06.080 the top of the year. We've been working and developing 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.480 and packaging and doing all that and so on the 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:12.640 big project that one of the big ones that we have. Um, 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:14.640 we have a UK in a French partner who want 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:18.200 are desperate to take it out and I you know, 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:21.080 we need to figure out it's probably these are ones 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:23.640 broadcast and ones not. We need to figure out whether 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:26.920 we want to. Traditionally, five years ago, we would of 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:29.960 course had them go at the same time, because if 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:31.680 they sold it in France or if they sold them 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:34.160 in the UK, that would be better for us across 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:38.040 the board. Now, if we want a Netflix or an 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:42.120 Amazon purchase, we may not want those rights off the table, 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:46.320 right So that definitely change the way we're thinking. Doesn't 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:48.560 mean we won't do it though, But if you have 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:54.560 the right leverage, our ability or partnership approach to the network, 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:59.000 you can still retain rights. And the studios are still 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:02.560 trying to monit ties rights all the way down the 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:05.080 revenue stream. We make a lot of programming for the 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:09.560 c W and CBS studios and Warner Brothers make their 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:12.560 money off the network. That's why they keep it in 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:15.720 business and off the shows and exploiting it off of 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:18.480 the c W and c W made a really strong 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.400 Netflix deal that also benefits studio partners and therefore it's 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:26.960 rights participants and the most money um most people have 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:30.800 made is being a participant on a studio's exploitation of 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:36.520 a big time broadcast show that is definitely under threat, 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:40.480 but you would still rather be participating in the big 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:45.400 bang theory than owning, you know, a big Netflix, Apple 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:48.720 premium show. And we're just trying to have the right 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:52.200 mix of those shows. Will there be a place that 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:56.080 actually exploits those We just saw a hundred plus million 0:16:56.080 --> 0:17:01.560 dollars being spent on the Friend renewal twenty plus years 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:06.600 off after it exited its primary distribution. And you know, 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:08.639 as producers of the Office, I was gonna say, how 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:13.360 fast did you called tent sorrendos. It's less ted sorrendous 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.480 than the clear reality that that show has found in 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:19.679 the Office has found a new audience, has grown in 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:23.680 its importance not only to Netflix but to Comcast. Over 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:26.720 time after it's gotten off the air, it's found a 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:31.840 younger you generate more like, yeah, more passionate audience even 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:35.679 than when it was on air, and has been reported 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:39.280 is the number one show on Netflix. And so when 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:42.840 that contract is up, I've got to assume Apple, Amazon, 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:47.000 Comcast itself, you know, are going to want to get 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:50.120 those rights and use them for their own services. Now, 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:55.200 how transparent will those transactions be and how will those 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:59.800 um questions be viewed? And is self dealing now something 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:03.560 that's accepted where it wasn't before. You know, those are 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.720 all things that as participants we have to really look 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:11.920 at closely and ensure that we're being protected in that process. 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:16.600 So many, so many moving parts there does does the 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:21.680 coming together of Disney Fox and Disney's goal of launching uh, 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.639 not only the Disney Plus service, but a suite of services? 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:28.320 Does that? Is that energizing or does that give you pause? Oh? 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:32.080 My god, here's another vertically integrated walled garden that Disney 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:34.080 is going to want to do so much of the 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:37.080 programming all themselves so that they can own every stitch 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:39.960 of it. We hope they all want to kill each 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:44.520 other as as long as as long as they're as 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:49.960 able to sustain and support the investment, which Bob Iger 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:52.479 has said he will, which the Burke is that he will, 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:55.959 which clearly testsorad Us and Rehastings have said they will, 0:18:56.080 --> 0:19:00.119 and um, then we want them in the strong is 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:05.000 shape to be able to invest at scale. Now, will 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:09.480 we be able to monetize those the same way? It's 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:13.240 unclear because we haven't yet seen it launched. The merger 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:18.520 hasn't even formally been uh completed, so it's not they're 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:22.720 not like kind of telegraphing it out. But I imagine 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:26.919 if you have the right compelling content, they will be 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:30.840 bidding against each other to to ensure that that content 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:33.400 is on their service and that they're going to then 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:37.000 drive the subscription revenue that will make it worthwhile for 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:39.800 them to invest against that content. And as new players 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:42.280 enter the market, you see business models change and you 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:48.120 see people taking risks. As Ben said, competition breeds um opportunity. 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:51.240 And we still like broadcast television a ton, and we 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:53.960 still like cable telling. You know, these things haven't yet 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:57.880 fallen off the cliff. It's clearly going down every year 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:02.840 in terms of absolute ratings. But um, the moment right 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:06.399 now is still the past and in the future, I 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:10.680 think we're anticipating that this future arrives quicker and quicker 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:14.600 and Netflix kind of shifting how it does deals. Was it, 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:17.840 you know, rude awakening I think for many people in 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:23.040 the business. Yeah, you reversing what their initial structures were. 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:25.120 You guys, I have to ask you, you guys were 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:27.439 very early in on Apple. You did one of their 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:30.320 first original shows, Planet of the Apps. Do you have 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:32.680 a sense of what's going on there when we're gonna 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:35.360 see when we're going to see something official from them 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:38.640 on what well what their video division has been cooking 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:43.040 up for the last eighteen months. They're making bets and 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:45.320 I think that they obviously need to figure out their 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:48.840 distribution strategy. Anybody killed us some Plant of the Apps 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:51.000 because they didn't have it in place, you know, and 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:53.720 and that was really disappointing for us because it's still 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:56.280 one of the shows that we made that which is, yeah, 0:20:56.320 --> 0:20:59.439 that's so qualitative. But if you build it in the 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:02.359 middle of the artist and no one sees it doesn't matter. 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:07.280 Do you own that show? Do you do you with 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:11.920 the Apple who controls its exploitation? Unfortunately for us, because 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:14.360 otherwise you would be seeing it all over all over 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:20.720 the world with UH with Apple among others. Though it 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:23.840 needs to play out like it's not clear yet. You know, 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:28.200 they're obviously investing in development and executives, but it's not 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:33.359 yet a transparent strategy. It's not something that is you 0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:37.280 bring them content, they're explaining to you how they're going 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:41.080 to exploit or distribute it. I think they get away 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:45.320 with a lot with the halo of the brand having 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:49.120 some kind of equity in our community, not just not 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:53.520 just in the technology tech community. Um, but I'm and 0:21:53.640 --> 0:21:57.240 Howard are really excited that Disney Comcast, the traditional guys 0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:00.399 who speak our language, who work in our business, are 0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:05.480 are going to be inside the inside the same race. 0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:08.040 Because I was worried for a while they were just 0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:11.480 absconding and now they're going time out. We're going to 0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:16.240 do this too. Yeah. Yeah, Now it's a two nineteen 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:19.000 should be. It'll be very interesting to see, you know, 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:21.520 how the landscape has changed. Just in and I just 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:25.200 taking something like Mary Poppins, which my children discovered through 0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:28.760 the Linen Manuel version. And then you're back at home 0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:33.119 and we're buying and ordering the Dick van Dyke version, 0:22:33.400 --> 0:22:39.520 and you know that's a pretty valuable uh property, you know, 0:22:39.600 --> 0:22:41.480 and you start to think, okay, and now if you 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:43.680 close it in and for one fee instead of having 0:22:43.720 --> 0:22:46.359 to buy it twice, which we did over the holidays, 0:22:47.000 --> 0:22:50.440 you could be getting it all. Um, we'll be paying 0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:53.280 for that, you know, and as a family. And so 0:22:53.520 --> 0:22:56.640 there's a lot and you can't you know, discount Star 0:22:56.680 --> 0:23:02.200 Wars and other things and with Universal and NBC and Comcast, 0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:05.520 and there's some amazing assets. And then you know, I 0:23:05.560 --> 0:23:09.359 wouldn't undercut the value and the opportunities with Showtime and 0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:13.359 CBS all Access. You know, even the small players have 0:23:13.960 --> 0:23:19.040 audience and relationship and dynamic and you know they're Let's 0:23:19.040 --> 0:23:21.960 talk about the talent representation business because there's been a 0:23:22.000 --> 0:23:24.720 lot of activity lions Gate about three arts. You guys 0:23:24.720 --> 0:23:28.639 are now the majority owner of Artists First. Um, you 0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:30.720 know that Anne of the US says a partnership with 0:23:30.760 --> 0:23:34.119 Paramount and Lorraine Jobs as an investor. Endeavor's got silver 0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:38.679 Lake and they're doing a production company. Paul Lee's working 0:23:38.960 --> 0:23:45.040 for CIA trying to you know, produce package backed by TPG. 0:23:45.320 --> 0:23:48.960 You know. So it's all all the mrc as overall 0:23:49.040 --> 0:23:52.560 deals with U t A and in three sixty you know, 0:23:52.760 --> 0:23:55.800 so yeah, there's a there's a lot of coming together here. 0:23:56.160 --> 0:23:59.439 But do you for Artists first? Was there is there 0:23:59.640 --> 0:24:03.240 just the the pure traditional representation business? Is that still 0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:05.399 a business? Is that is that something that gives you 0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:10.119 a nice foundation? Completely? Like the value of talent in 0:24:10.640 --> 0:24:14.119 this next iteration is not going down, it's going up, 0:24:14.280 --> 0:24:16.199 and you've seen it in some of the mega deals 0:24:16.400 --> 0:24:19.360 that some of the platforms are making to secure talented 0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:25.800 Key Barris, who is represented by Artists First UM and 0:24:26.000 --> 0:24:33.120 so so the actual value proposition for these brilliant creators 0:24:33.280 --> 0:24:37.440 has gone up in terms of how they participate and 0:24:37.520 --> 0:24:40.680 are compensated. So we completely believe in that and also 0:24:40.800 --> 0:24:43.879 how they can be unlocked into these new businesses, you know, 0:24:44.880 --> 0:24:48.959 whether it's Kate Hudson doing Letica, you know, or whatever. 0:24:49.119 --> 0:24:53.640 Those kind of partnerships are in brand building. I think 0:24:53.680 --> 0:24:57.000 we've also witnessed the past ten fifteen years this kind 0:24:57.040 --> 0:25:01.240 of age of celebrity is entrepreneur and so three sixty 0:25:01.400 --> 0:25:08.000