1 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:10,399 Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcasts featuring conversations with 2 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of entertainment. I'm Cynthia Littleton, 3 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: business editor of Variety. Today. My guests in l A 4 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: are Ben Silverman and Howard Owens, co heads of the 5 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: content company Propagate. Benn and Howard have been partners on 6 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: and off for years, since their days in the nineteen 7 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: nineties working at the William Morris Agency. Today they have 8 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 1: big ambitions to build Propagate into a major player in 9 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: the global content arena. They spent most of two thousand 10 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,879 Speaker 1: and eighteen putting building blocks in place thanks to the 11 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: investment Propagate received from Rain Group. Here, Ben and Howard 12 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: discussed the economic landscape for content, wrestling over writes with fires, 13 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: and why their company is also in the talent management business. 14 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: And they also reflect on their past lives as network 15 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 1: executives and just how much those jobs have changed. Ben 16 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: Silverman and Howard Owns of Propagate Content. Thank you very 17 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: much for stopping by and joining us today. Absolutely in 18 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: the end, nice to be in the in the Variety 19 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: studios where it all happens in Los Angeles. Um, you 20 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: guys had a big two thousand eighteen, a lot of 21 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: things went down. You started the year with an investment 22 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 1: from Rain Group, and then you turned around and bought Electus, 23 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: Ben's previous company that he started in two thousand nine. 24 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: And by the end of the year you had recruited 25 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 1: Greg Lipstone, who had been running All three Media America 26 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: and is a veteran of the unscripted and talent agency world. 27 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: And Electus has also brought you a big position in 28 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: the talent management company Artists First. So how does all 29 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: this activity set you up for two thousand nineteen? What 30 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: are your big priorities for the year. Well, a lot 31 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: of retreats, you know, as we build culture and integrate 32 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: all the really incredible exacts across the companies. We love 33 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: Peter Principato and the Artist First business. They are so 34 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: impressive and have built an incredible organization and have amazing 35 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: produced sial ability as well as a deep, deep roster 36 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: of brilliant storytellers and artists. And we love the name too, 37 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: Artists First because we're very much artists driven in our 38 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: philosophy and um, two thousand nineteen is the year we gotta, 39 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: you know, really elevate it and make it all work. 40 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: We're not done in our acquisitions and ambitions for growth 41 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: in terms of the inorganic, but we also want to 42 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: now put the pedal of the metal and really turn 43 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: on the dynamics that had been kind of frozen between 44 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: artists first and um its ability to expand beyond because 45 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 1: they had been in the sales process with Electus and 46 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 1: so Howard and I are focused on continuing to up 47 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: the premium content that we are making at scale for 48 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: everyone from the History Channel to Netflix to Amazon, UM 49 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: to Apple to UM NBC, and we also are looking 50 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: to grow our premium scripted business. We're currently in production 51 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 1: on three big scripted series, Charmed, Jane the Virgin going 52 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: into its final year, and Blood and Treasure coming on CBS, 53 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: as well as a myriad of really great high end 54 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: development and we're looking to just grow all those businesses. 55 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: Were maybe build out our unscripted franchises and really um 56 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: you know, get back to the business of creating UM 57 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: you know, culture changing content. And you saw in January 58 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: with the launch a Mass Singer and and Tighten Games. 59 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: You know, those still the way and not only that, 60 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: those are still the shows that can move the needle 61 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: the fastest for big outlets and big Netford high concept 62 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: unscripted you still see. I mean, I know that was 63 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: one of the things that you guys both major you know, 64 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: major names on and there's been a lot of talk about, 65 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: you know, has that moment passed? Can anything breakthrough? And 66 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: clearly it can and it's all about originality. We have 67 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: an amazing h show at Fox that we're not allowed 68 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 1: to announce yet, but go ahead, they won't mind, you 69 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 1: know that we're in production on great Talent Auspices and 70 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 1: uh and it's one that Howard and I have believed 71 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: in for literally fifteen years, you know, kind of since 72 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 1: we started in this industry and built kind of the 73 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: reality business, you know, on the heels of the work 74 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: we did William Morris and Revel with the little show 75 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 1: called Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? Can you believe 76 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: it's been twenty years, you know, it's unbelievable and it's 77 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 1: still on the air, still on the air. But in 78 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: the wave of all of that, you know, there was 79 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 1: a moment and you you actually chronicled it, you know, 80 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: where if it had an accent, you know, we were 81 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: involved in its its translation to America and then the world, 82 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: and I think the areas that we have real kind 83 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: of continued first mover and separation from our competition is 84 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: we're super internationally oriented. We invested in a big international 85 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 1: company as well, called it Incomdo out of France. We 86 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: have a partnership in Brazil with Formata, and we are 87 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: growing our international UM platform. Were in production on Spanish 88 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: language series, on French series. We had the November thirteenth 89 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 1: documentary series on Netflix this summer with the Not Day 90 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: Brothers Indian series and based on a format that's about 91 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: to be made in India going in production. I just 92 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: heard this morning I sighting in Brazil as well the 93 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 1: second season in Portuguese. So what you know is for 94 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 1: like Netflix or for streaming there for all different kinds 95 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: of outlets. So the Indian one is for Amazon, the 96 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: French one was for net Likes, the Spanish language one 97 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: is for Netflix, and the Brazilian one was for Brazilian 98 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: broadcast television actually, And so we're scaling our international and 99 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: coupled with that, we're going to be accelerating the growth 100 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: for artists first internationally and that model of UM talent 101 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: lead UH production orientation we believe in completely and UM 102 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: and so that's another element as well as all the 103 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 1: i P that we're able to drive out of the 104 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: global markets, you know, just like Jane the Virgin and 105 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: Ugly Betty before that. We're from Colombia and Venezuela. We 106 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: have a string of great new i P in development, 107 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: including Strong Girl UM with CBS and CW based on 108 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 1: the hip hot Korean format, and we continue to kind 109 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: of identify I think the best of the international market 110 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: for translation, but also as we did in selling our 111 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: shows internationally, are doing it in reverse. But the key 112 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: answer to your you know question is in acquiring Electus Notional, 113 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: the big breakfast franchise which makes Adam Ruins everything and 114 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: artists first, as well as a minority stake in Authentic, 115 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: the management company in New York, which hasn't been reported on. 116 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:20,239 Speaker 1: We want to integrate these into a you know, creative led, 117 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: talent led global studio model for the future. How we 118 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: can control rights and battle to UM you know, retain 119 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: as much as possible in a world of accelerated vertical 120 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: integration remains the biggest challenge UM, and we're looking at 121 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: ways to do that and to accelerate those opportunities you know, 122 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: we have used advertisers a great deal in the kind 123 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: of previous decade to to align with around that, and 124 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: we're still wide open to and interested in figuring out 125 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: how they come back to the table in terms of 126 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: bringing them in as financing partners from the get go. 127 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: The shore co producers are finance and they are clamoring 128 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: because for re entry into a system that's kind of 129 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: been closing them out on in Netflix, Apple and Amazon's 130 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: ecosystems where they're not invited or welcome at the table, 131 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: and so we think there's opportunity there as well. And 132 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: with Greg lipstones arrival, you know, having another senior level 133 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: executive to support Howard and I and help really you know, 134 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: run the run the day to day operations while we're 135 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 1: building it out. And also the brilliant executives we've brought 136 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: in from Electus Drew Buckley who's done a great job 137 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: at Electus and is now part of the organization also 138 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: and seeing Matthew and then the incredible capacity of the 139 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: executives inside um artists first, you know, we don't just 140 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: think of them as managers. We think of them as 141 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: executive talent. And and Dobbins and David Gardner and Joel's 142 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: Zaidak and Peter Principato across the board, you know, have 143 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: such deep relationships, access and insight into the industry, and 144 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: that's something we're excited to unlock more than they're kind 145 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 1: of quotitian, you know, business of the generation before in 146 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: the management side, the percentage business represented talent exactly. Um. 147 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: Let me I ask all the producers that I talked 148 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 1: to these days this question. Clearly, the the you know, 149 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: the business models and the industry are are changing seismically. YouTube. 150 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 1: We're both so far ahead of how the business was changing, 151 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: you know, going on twenty years ago. But now it 152 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: really feels like it is becoming a business of upfront 153 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: money as opposed to back in success. How does that 154 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: change the way you guys go about doing your business. 155 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: Is television becoming a cost plus business for producers making 156 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: money independent producers such a yourselves? Yeah, I mean, you know, 157 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: obviously because of the trend. We want to take advantage 158 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: of that trend. You know, we want to sell series 159 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: and get multiple seasons and get as much um, you know, 160 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: upfront and um as much revenue and money as possible 161 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: in the series that we're committed to in selling, but 162 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: I think our artists first, our entry, our relationships with 163 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 1: artists first, and our management talent relationships as well as 164 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: our international production platforms as well as our ability to 165 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: work with brands and advertisers are all different ways that 166 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: we're looking to, as we like to say, form a 167 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: quicker and more efficient path to production, but also opportunities 168 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: to create different in emerging business models, you know, on 169 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 1: one level and on a big macro level. For us, 170 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: we've always believed in international you know, as our conversation 171 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: is already UM alluded to UM, but we believe there's 172 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: an opportunity to be making programs globally around the world, 173 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: and as part of that, there are rights positions and 174 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,439 Speaker 1: not you know in countries that we're dealing with has 175 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 1: been referenced, you know, Brazil, where we're in business with 176 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: a broadcaster. UM. There are still businesses that rely on 177 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: co production models, and still businesses that rely on partnerships 178 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: where there are ownership opportunities and where they're legally regulated 179 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: to force ownership onto the independent sector, something that we 180 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: think should happen in America, you know, as I wouldn't 181 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,439 Speaker 1: hold your breath in this political environment, you never know. 182 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: Usually you never know. I'm with you, just because of 183 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: the hatred he has for all of the big malforms 184 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 1: and the fact that he doesn't feel his voice gets 185 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: hurt as the president. You know that. I think it's 186 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: actually shocking that under a republican regime you could potentially 187 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:59,199 Speaker 1: see that emerge. But regardless, there is a moment in time. 188 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: I think with the conversation ongoing about the consolidation now 189 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: affecting what consumers see and the clear directive of all 190 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: these media platforms to kind of come out with one 191 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: version of a conversation, it is going to be a 192 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: moment where we need to go backwards and create independent 193 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: sector and independent voice again. And we we believe in 194 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: that from the success of how content can develop and 195 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: arrive and connect with an audience that it can't just 196 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:36,239 Speaker 1: all be two edited babies fed from the same machinery 197 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 1: companies that are going to control. And it's so dramatically different. 198 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 1: In the UK were literally by law there is there's 199 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: very strict rules like the United States had thirty We 200 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: were as agents in helping develop path strategy back twenty 201 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: plus years ago to get a quota of percent fed 202 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: through the independent sector where they were owning the rights. 203 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: Part of it is based on the fact that the 204 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: BBC was funded by the government and the net result 205 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: of it was though that those companies became so successful 206 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 1: and export market developed because they cared about every penny 207 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: more than a large conglomerate wood holding onto multiple rights 208 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 1: that it may not exploit. And then those companies drove 209 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: value on the alternative investment market, which is you know, 210 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: kind of the nas deck of London, and billions of 211 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: dollars of wealthware created, jobs were built and there's a 212 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: real narrative to that that has worked in other markets. 213 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: So we continue to invest in those markets as well, 214 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: because there are places where the rights disposition is better 215 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: suited for producers. But I think, to answer your question directly, 216 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: it's requiring us to think a little differently. It's requiring 217 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: us Howard said that creativity around business models. Yes, but 218 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: we need to get more volume on one hand, because 219 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: it's the only way that it can equal what we're 220 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: losing on the back end. And we still need to 221 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: play the game for the big hits, and we need 222 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: to take risk upfront, spend more money on development, build 223 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: bigger packages, in house so that we can leverage the 224 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: marketplace to retain rights where we can. Do you find 225 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: I mean the sense, my sense is that it's it's 226 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: becoming a very monolithic business. And you go into Netflix, 227 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: and you go into CBS, you going to NBC Universal 228 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: and they say, great, we'd like that. We'll pay you. 229 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: We'll pay you this, and we'll pay you can take 230 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: your or on top and we'll take everything. But is 231 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: there more negotiating room if you if you walk in 232 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: the door with I P well, it really want I 233 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: was gonna actually uh then I played phone tag on 234 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: the way over here. So I'm on the way over here. 235 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: I'm on the phone with the UK partner who's in 236 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: production on a series for us in the UK making 237 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: here right, and so it's a great format. It's on 238 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: broadcast network here and he got a multi episode order 239 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: and it's a big priority for us to show. So 240 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: we're obviously taking out our big new projects now at 241 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: the top of the year. We've been working and developing 242 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: and packaging and doing all that and so on the 243 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: big project that one of the big ones that we have. Um, 244 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: we have a UK in a French partner who want 245 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: are desperate to take it out and I you know, 246 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: we need to figure out it's probably these are ones 247 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: broadcast and ones not. We need to figure out whether 248 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: we want to. Traditionally, five years ago, we would of 249 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: course had them go at the same time, because if 250 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: they sold it in France or if they sold them 251 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: in the UK, that would be better for us across 252 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: the board. Now, if we want a Netflix or an 253 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: Amazon purchase, we may not want those rights off the table, 254 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: right So that definitely change the way we're thinking. Doesn't 255 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: mean we won't do it though, But if you have 256 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: the right leverage, our ability or partnership approach to the network, 257 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: you can still retain rights. And the studios are still 258 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: trying to monit ties rights all the way down the 259 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: revenue stream. We make a lot of programming for the 260 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: c W and CBS studios and Warner Brothers make their 261 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: money off the network. That's why they keep it in 262 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: business and off the shows and exploiting it off of 263 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: the c W and c W made a really strong 264 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: Netflix deal that also benefits studio partners and therefore it's 265 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: rights participants and the most money um most people have 266 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: made is being a participant on a studio's exploitation of 267 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: a big time broadcast show that is definitely under threat, 268 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: but you would still rather be participating in the big 269 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: bang theory than owning, you know, a big Netflix, Apple 270 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: premium show. And we're just trying to have the right 271 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: mix of those shows. Will there be a place that 272 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: actually exploits those We just saw a hundred plus million 273 00:16:56,080 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: dollars being spent on the Friend renewal twenty plus years 274 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: off after it exited its primary distribution. And you know, 275 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 1: as producers of the Office, I was gonna say, how 276 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:13,360 Speaker 1: fast did you called tent sorrendos. It's less ted sorrendous 277 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: than the clear reality that that show has found in 278 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 1: the Office has found a new audience, has grown in 279 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 1: its importance not only to Netflix but to Comcast. Over 280 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: time after it's gotten off the air, it's found a 281 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: younger you generate more like, yeah, more passionate audience even 282 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 1: than when it was on air, and has been reported 283 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: is the number one show on Netflix. And so when 284 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: that contract is up, I've got to assume Apple, Amazon, 285 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: Comcast itself, you know, are going to want to get 286 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 1: those rights and use them for their own services. Now, 287 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: how transparent will those transactions be and how will those 288 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: um questions be viewed? And is self dealing now something 289 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: that's accepted where it wasn't before. You know, those are 290 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: all things that as participants we have to really look 291 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 1: at closely and ensure that we're being protected in that process. 292 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: So many, so many moving parts there does does the 293 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 1: coming together of Disney Fox and Disney's goal of launching uh, 294 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 1: not only the Disney Plus service, but a suite of services? 295 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: Does that? Is that energizing or does that give you pause? Oh? 296 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: My god, here's another vertically integrated walled garden that Disney 297 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: is going to want to do so much of the 298 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: programming all themselves so that they can own every stitch 299 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: of it. We hope they all want to kill each 300 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: other as as long as as long as they're as 301 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: able to sustain and support the investment, which Bob Iger 302 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,479 Speaker 1: has said he will, which the Burke is that he will, 303 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,959 Speaker 1: which clearly testsorad Us and Rehastings have said they will, 304 00:18:56,080 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: and um, then we want them in the strong is 305 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: shape to be able to invest at scale. Now, will 306 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 1: we be able to monetize those the same way? It's 307 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: unclear because we haven't yet seen it launched. The merger 308 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: hasn't even formally been uh completed, so it's not they're 309 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: not like kind of telegraphing it out. But I imagine 310 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 1: if you have the right compelling content, they will be 311 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: bidding against each other to to ensure that that content 312 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 1: is on their service and that they're going to then 313 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: drive the subscription revenue that will make it worthwhile for 314 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: them to invest against that content. And as new players 315 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: enter the market, you see business models change and you 316 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 1: see people taking risks. As Ben said, competition breeds um opportunity. 317 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: And we still like broadcast television a ton, and we 318 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: still like cable telling. You know, these things haven't yet 319 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,880 Speaker 1: fallen off the cliff. It's clearly going down every year 320 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: in terms of absolute ratings. But um, the moment right 321 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: now is still the past and in the future, I 322 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 1: think we're anticipating that this future arrives quicker and quicker 323 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: and Netflix kind of shifting how it does deals. Was it, 324 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: you know, rude awakening I think for many people in 325 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: the business. Yeah, you reversing what their initial structures were. 326 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,120 Speaker 1: You guys, I have to ask you, you guys were 327 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,439 Speaker 1: very early in on Apple. You did one of their 328 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: first original shows, Planet of the Apps. Do you have 329 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,680 Speaker 1: a sense of what's going on there when we're gonna 330 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,360 Speaker 1: see when we're going to see something official from them 331 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: on what well what their video division has been cooking 332 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: up for the last eighteen months. They're making bets and 333 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: I think that they obviously need to figure out their 334 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: distribution strategy. Anybody killed us some Plant of the Apps 335 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: because they didn't have it in place, you know, and 336 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: and that was really disappointing for us because it's still 337 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: one of the shows that we made that which is, yeah, 338 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 1: that's so qualitative. But if you build it in the 339 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: middle of the artist and no one sees it doesn't matter. 340 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: Do you own that show? Do you do you with 341 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 1: the Apple who controls its exploitation? Unfortunately for us, because 342 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,360 Speaker 1: otherwise you would be seeing it all over all over 343 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: the world with UH with Apple among others. Though it 344 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: needs to play out like it's not clear yet. You know, 345 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: they're obviously investing in development and executives, but it's not 346 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 1: yet a transparent strategy. It's not something that is you 347 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: bring them content, they're explaining to you how they're going 348 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: to exploit or distribute it. I think they get away 349 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: with a lot with the halo of the brand having 350 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 1: some kind of equity in our community, not just not 351 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: just in the technology tech community. Um, but I'm and 352 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: Howard are really excited that Disney Comcast, the traditional guys 353 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 1: who speak our language, who work in our business, are 354 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: are going to be inside the inside the same race. 355 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: Because I was worried for a while they were just 356 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: absconding and now they're going time out. We're going to 357 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: do this too. Yeah. Yeah, Now it's a two nineteen 358 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: should be. It'll be very interesting to see, you know, 359 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: how the landscape has changed. Just in and I just 360 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 1: taking something like Mary Poppins, which my children discovered through 361 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: the Linen Manuel version. And then you're back at home 362 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: and we're buying and ordering the Dick van Dyke version, 363 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: and you know that's a pretty valuable uh property, you know, 364 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: and you start to think, okay, and now if you 365 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: close it in and for one fee instead of having 366 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: to buy it twice, which we did over the holidays, 367 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 1: you could be getting it all. Um, we'll be paying 368 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: for that, you know, and as a family. And so 369 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 1: there's a lot and you can't you know, discount Star 370 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 1: Wars and other things and with Universal and NBC and Comcast, 371 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: and there's some amazing assets. And then you know, I 372 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: wouldn't undercut the value and the opportunities with Showtime and 373 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 1: CBS all Access. You know, even the small players have 374 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: audience and relationship and dynamic and you know they're Let's 375 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: talk about the talent representation business because there's been a 376 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: lot of activity lions Gate about three arts. You guys 377 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 1: are now the majority owner of Artists First. Um, you 378 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: know that Anne of the US says a partnership with 379 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,119 Speaker 1: Paramount and Lorraine Jobs as an investor. Endeavor's got silver 380 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:38,679 Speaker 1: Lake and they're doing a production company. Paul Lee's working 381 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: for CIA trying to you know, produce package backed by TPG. 382 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: You know. So it's all all the mrc as overall 383 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: deals with U t A and in three sixty you know, 384 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: so yeah, there's a there's a lot of coming together here. 385 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 1: But do you for Artists first? Was there is there 386 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: just the the pure traditional representation business? Is that still 387 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 1: a business? Is that is that something that gives you 388 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: a nice foundation? Completely? Like the value of talent in 389 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 1: this next iteration is not going down, it's going up, 390 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,199 Speaker 1: and you've seen it in some of the mega deals 391 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 1: that some of the platforms are making to secure talented 392 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: Key Barris, who is represented by Artists First UM and 393 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:33,120 Speaker 1: so so the actual value proposition for these brilliant creators 394 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 1: has gone up in terms of how they participate and 395 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: are compensated. So we completely believe in that and also 396 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 1: how they can be unlocked into these new businesses, you know, 397 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,959 Speaker 1: whether it's Kate Hudson doing Letica, you know, or whatever. 398 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:53,640 Speaker 1: Those kind of partnerships are in brand building. I think 399 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: we've also witnessed the past ten fifteen years this kind 400 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: of age of celebrity is entrepreneur and so three sixty 401 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: approach exactly to these really connective talent and celebrities who 402 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: actually have this direct consumer relationship that's opened up through 403 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: social media and active Instagram and conversation of their consumer 404 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: and audience and fans and all of that is super 405 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 1: interesting to us inside the talent business, as the talent 406 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: business separate from the talent business as a place to 407 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: build productions and content. How did the Rain relationship come about? Um, 408 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 1: we knew Joe Ravage a very long time and he 409 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: had pursued doing a deal with me for years and 410 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 1: after Howard had made do you want to talk about 411 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: the and he came in, you know first, and UM 412 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,919 Speaker 1: I had had we have had a long relationship with UM, 413 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: you know, Nancy and Paul team, and so they came 414 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: in and Ben consulted me through that process. And that 415 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: was in two thiften when you were launching the company. 416 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: Partnered with any network. I partnered with Any Networks and 417 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: UM thankfully had my concibiliary and mentor. UM advised me 418 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,160 Speaker 1: through that process. But I had thought of the time, 419 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: as did been, that it was smart to have a 420 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: distribution partner. It was smart to have a partner who 421 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,880 Speaker 1: was in the UM you know, content distribution game. Who 422 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: needs producers, creative producers in deeds you know, UM great, 423 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: I p and that was a real so that that 424 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 1: was the first kind of peg of the building of 425 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 1: the company and UM as as Ben joined formally and 426 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 1: came in, we we UM. We had proved to ANY 427 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 1: pretty quickly that we were a growth opportunity for them, 428 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: you know, and they at the time we're investing in 429 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 1: in addition to advice, we're investing in a lot of 430 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: different creative producers in different types of businesses. Ours. I 431 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: think transcended pretty quickly, and um, with that, they wanted 432 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: to grow and we had often you know, thought that 433 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: that was just the beginning. And I think Ben had 434 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,640 Speaker 1: been hit on by a lot of people to begin organizations, 435 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:25,439 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of big multimedia international UH media 436 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: players had been pursuing Ben, and I think that, um, 437 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: my relationship with him, I think that he saw a 438 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 1: friend and familiar believer in the business and how we 439 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: want to grow it. And Ben, you know, you talked 440 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: about Rain because that was really Joe and Ben had 441 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,239 Speaker 1: had a longstanding relationship and as much as we did 442 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 1: want to grow, we were not pursuing once you joined us, 443 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: we were not pursuing opportunities. We were kind of growing 444 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 1: and organically and the business was sustaining and quickly you know, evolving. 445 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: UM I think that Rain proved to us to be 446 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: long term players versus traditional kind of bankers, you know, 447 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: looking tom to come in and exploit an opportunity. I 448 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: think they're they're long term growth players, and we look 449 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: at this as an opportunity to grow a long term 450 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: business and something that you know, we can believe in 451 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: and stay a part of and grow and with, you know, 452 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 1: the people who work for us and even you know, 453 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: our children, you know, to be part of it. And 454 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: I think Rain has that kind of similar sensibility. They 455 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: believe in content. Yeah, and clearly by way that where 456 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 1: they have parked some of their money with I Magine 457 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: Magin and Matt and Trey, Matt Parker and Trip, Trey 458 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: Parker and Matt Stone and so had a long standing 459 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: relationship and was actually sitting down with Joe prior and 460 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: concurrently to Howard setting up to talk about potentially trying 461 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: to buy elect this from I see, which didn't want 462 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: to sell at the time, and I realized I wanted 463 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: to exit, to go do something bigger and a scale 464 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: with more support, and was talking to Joe about all 465 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: the various players who were chasing me at that time 466 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: and UM and through that process He's like, well, we 467 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: want to do this. You know, we've now started primary 468 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: investments and a fund beyond our previous UM investment banking role, 469 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:31,719 Speaker 1: marching banking role, and Joe Rabbage, Jeff sign, Eric Hodge, 470 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: Heather Stein in the people we met there were all 471 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: just so intelligent and great. We love that they were 472 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: so internationally oriented themselves. They have LPs from all over 473 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: the world, from Mobable Law in Abu Dhabi to WPP 474 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: in New York and London, and offices all over the 475 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: world as well, with people who are not only supporting 476 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: our business but are actually out there every day thinking 477 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: about it as as investors in the business. And they, 478 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: as Howard said, really get the business. This wasn't going 479 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: to a company that its assets or entires or or 480 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: um you know, or non media or content related. These 481 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: are people who knew intimately the way that our business operated, 482 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: and their philosophy around this is there's this arms race 483 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: going on and you guys are bullet makers. Imagines a 484 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: bullet maker, and Matt and Trey are bullet makers, and 485 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: if and if we can thrive, you know, there's going 486 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: to be a need for the product you create. And 487 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: what was also great is the senior management hitting any 488 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: when we had come in, knew that we were going 489 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: to bring in another partner, and so having to minority 490 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: investors is so different than the way Howard and I 491 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: had worked previously, where we basically had majority owners like this, 492 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: you know, and with Shine, you know, being kind of 493 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: more owned than than invested on a certain level. And 494 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: this now kind of fully liberated us to be in 495 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: charge of our own destiny. And as Joe, Jeff and 496 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: Eric said to us so many times, like this is 497 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: you need to do this now, like this is your 498 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: moment to go build this and run it on your 499 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: own and see it through and build something up scale. 500 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: And they they were the ones who approached us on electists, 501 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 1: they said, because I didn't want to feel like we 502 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: were going after it for some vanity or to kind of, 503 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: you know, close off some story. You know, they really 504 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: were the ones coming us saying, hey, they're in this process, 505 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: and I think there may be a moment where we 506 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: can enter this process. And you guys would say that 507 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: I had to kind of been I said Ben, you know, 508 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: because again he was a little he had done the 509 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: electist thing, right. I mean, that's what I feel like. 510 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: It was like someone, you know, do I need to 511 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 1: go back to that. I thought that Ben knew that 512 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: business better than anyone, and if anyone could drive drive 513 00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: value out of it, it was you know Ben, and 514 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: our team is a Andy still an investor, Yeah they are. 515 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: And I will just go back and say it help 516 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 1: that a Andy and Rain had a great rapport Nancy 517 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: and Joe served together on the vice board, the vice board, 518 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: and they had a real familiarity and David Glamville Smith 519 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: who's the CEO, and Paul Boucherry the CEO, where people 520 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 1: we had worked with forever, and Paul had done all 521 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,719 Speaker 1: that i TV roll up and knew our in our 522 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: business inside and out world and so so there were 523 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: such a shorthand between Paul Digger Us and UH and 524 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: the Rain team. Both sets are minority investors in the 525 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: business and both are super supportive of the business um, 526 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: but neither one can trump the other. So it's really 527 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 1: great to have people who are honest, and we're thrilled 528 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: that our board is comprised of the senior leadership at 529 00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: those companies. To having Paul, Digger, Eric and Joe on 530 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: our board is also unlocked so much intellectual power, right 531 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: plus opportunities that I'm sure you know and has quite 532 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: has very big international reach and it all seems to 533 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: feed into what you're trying to do completely. And so 534 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: when they have networks overseas and they domestically, they need hits, 535 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 1: you know, and hopefully we are hit makers. What's I 536 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: didn't realize just how much international activity you have going on. 537 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: What is the hardest thing about producing a show outside 538 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: of the US is it? Is it navigating the local 539 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: orting to be there, getting on a plane every every 540 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 1: other day, right part of well, um, you know, it's 541 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: not as hard making them. For Netflix and other US 542 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: based companies that are entering international markets, it is, um 543 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: sometimes a little tricker, trickier, you know, knowing how format delivery, 544 00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: UM act break down and just some of this stuff 545 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: that works inside the mechanics. But a show is a show, 546 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: you know, it's not It's not that far off from 547 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: how we do it here. You know, cash flow issues, 548 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,760 Speaker 1: payment issues, you know, things like that require local partners. 549 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: And that's why everything we've ever done The Naughty Brothers 550 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,280 Speaker 1: are French, and we've brought in a brilliant French producer 551 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: to work under us on that, a woman named Marie 552 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 1: and uh, and what we're doing in Mexico for Netflix 553 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: involves Mexican production partners, you know, and so those kind 554 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 1: of and what we're doing in France involves people that 555 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: we've both worked with over twenty years. Yeah, these are 556 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 1: people internationally oriented, like Eduard Debazine ran Europa Corp. And 557 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,400 Speaker 1: was a producer on English language global shows out of 558 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 1: France and addition to local French movies. I think we 559 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,879 Speaker 1: believe there's great opportunity unlock French and German and Francophone 560 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: and Portrague ease and talent as well. And I think 561 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 1: that's a new migration. If before Howard and I looked 562 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,400 Speaker 1: to the international market for I p to replicate and 563 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 1: remake here that could then travel back around the world, 564 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,280 Speaker 1: now we're also looking for the voices and the talent 565 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 1: that can work on global content. And I think you're 566 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 1: seeing more and more the strength of the founder creators 567 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: and writers who are representative artists first are equal to 568 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 1: the talent that is inside Hollywood m I think that 569 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: has very much with the internationalizations. It opened up the 570 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,840 Speaker 1: eyes and you think about how you know Pada, and 571 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: you think about you know, you think about all these shows. 572 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: People want the creators of those shows, uh creating other 573 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: shows you know. So, um so that's that's something we're 574 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,400 Speaker 1: excited about unlocking because we have a lot of those relationships. 575 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,839 Speaker 1: Um you both had, at various times had stints as 576 00:35:55,920 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: executives in more traditional television companies. It feel like, you know, 577 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,399 Speaker 1: many centuries ago in some ways, when you think about 578 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 1: how much has changed. But what would you say for 579 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,320 Speaker 1: both of you? How are you were at National Geographic Television, 580 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: ven you were at NBC, what would you what? What 581 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 1: would you say that your experience at those companies, running 582 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 1: those at a high level? What did you learn not 583 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 1: to do when you went into your entrepreneurial modes. I mean, 584 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,399 Speaker 1: I feel like I learned a ton. You know, you're 585 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: inside that you're inside the factory, you're inside the system, 586 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: and as an agent and as some and then as 587 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,400 Speaker 1: a producer selling to those people and wanting to, you know, 588 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 1: make sure that they loved your product and wanted to 589 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 1: make sure that they positioned it at the right night, 590 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,840 Speaker 1: and wanted to make sure they marketed coming out of 591 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: the right show and all those things. But not really knowing, 592 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,279 Speaker 1: you know, until you're in there. How it gets down. 593 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:50,840 Speaker 1: The first thing I would say is I did know 594 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 1: a lot of it, Like I knew more than I thought. 595 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,800 Speaker 1: When I came into Natchie, I'm like, oh, this is 596 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,320 Speaker 1: actually how I thought it would work. Um, there weren't 597 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,839 Speaker 1: a ton of sur rises, but I think you know, Um, 598 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,760 Speaker 1: what I saw in Nago was the value of a brand, 599 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 1: a global brand like national geographic channels that could launch 600 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: shows day and date in the United States, in Germany, 601 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 1: in you name it right. You know, it's a complete 602 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,839 Speaker 1: global channel. And I thought the opportunity to tap tap 603 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 1: into global stories. I mean, I think when I was 604 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 1: at Nagio, that was when UM, you know, Netflix was 605 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 1: gaining prominence and you could see international global creators creating 606 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: content that UM, you know, was popular not only the America, 607 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: but in Germany and other places simultaneously. UM, you know 608 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 1: me personally there. I also, you know, we always had 609 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: a love for documentary storytelling UM. One of the first 610 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: shows that we UM we produced coming out of UM 611 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 1: starting Reaveli, was the nine eleven documentary with the naw 612 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 1: Day Brothers and UM having always been a fan of 613 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 1: it but not having done a ton of it at 614 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,239 Speaker 1: Reabeli when the market was a little more commercial, UM 615 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,880 Speaker 1: format driven, UM, I got a chance to work with 616 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: some of the best documentary filmmakers and creators tell stories 617 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: about natural history, tell stories about UM things that science 618 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 1: and UM that I was totally passionate about. So in 619 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 1: that regard, I'm not sure that's the question has but 620 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,440 Speaker 1: that's kind of what I really enjoyed UM and what 621 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 1: I took with me, you know, leaving that GM and 622 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 1: I think taking out of those organizations in applying it 623 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,880 Speaker 1: into an entrepreneurial environment. One of the key elements is 624 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 1: understand your buyer, you know, and that total of knowledge 625 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,360 Speaker 1: we have around their issues, their needs and their accounting, 626 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 1: you know, very simple things that are kind of behind 627 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 1: the curtain to most suppliers and producers. And how a 628 00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 1: broadcaster or a studio does its accounting, does its budgeting, 629 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 1: does it assignments stuff? You know, all of those things 630 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,560 Speaker 1: help us be better sellers and know where we can 631 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 1: kind of position something for the long haul for a partner. 632 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 1: It's one of the reasons that I had such a 633 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 1: shorthand with Mark Petowitz at the CW because I recognized 634 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 1: how his ad sales matrix worked. I knew the importance 635 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,279 Speaker 1: of that Netflix partnership. I knew that his studios were 636 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,439 Speaker 1: actually his bosses and you know, and ways in which 637 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 1: you can help navigate that and deliver on that is 638 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:37,080 Speaker 1: is something that we brought to our entrepreneurial side and UM, 639 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 1: and then I think there's also ways in which you 640 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,720 Speaker 1: can call bullshit on somebody sitting in the other seat, 641 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,640 Speaker 1: because you know that's actually not the way it is, 642 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,840 Speaker 1: and no, you do have pressure to do this, and 643 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,759 Speaker 1: we can kind of shortcut a lot. Having been in 644 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:59,360 Speaker 1: those jobs and recognizing both the needs, the challenges and 645 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,760 Speaker 1: the lies that are sometimes told to be told told 646 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:05,920 Speaker 1: to you on the outside, we were always kind of 647 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: we were always very prepared in when we were going 648 00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,840 Speaker 1: to sell a show and produce a show for network. 649 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,840 Speaker 1: We knew the network. I will say, as a buyer 650 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,239 Speaker 1: and sitting in the chair, it's shocking how many people 651 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 1: come and pitch you who've never watched your channel, who 652 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,960 Speaker 1: are bringing you something. And so I think part of it, think, 653 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,320 Speaker 1: I think, and I think part of what's challenge like 654 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,600 Speaker 1: we don't quite understand everything going on at Netflix, we 655 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:34,359 Speaker 1: don't quite understand everything going on in some of these 656 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:38,840 Speaker 1: other new emerging platforms because they don't know, you know. 657 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:42,200 Speaker 1: And that's and that's part of it in how you 658 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:47,640 Speaker 1: think about something or anticipate, you know, where somebody will 659 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:52,839 Speaker 1: buy or um support your content. It's hard when they 660 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,960 Speaker 1: don't actually have those answers themselves, and they're trying to 661 00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,560 Speaker 1: figure it out as they go. Anyway, as show by 662 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 1: show is it where. Yeah, is there anything out there? 663 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,359 Speaker 1: I know this is a tough question, but I'm gonna 664 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 1: throw it out anyway. Is there anything out there that 665 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,560 Speaker 1: would entice either of you to go back to a 666 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 1: traditional media company, to run a traditional channel or a 667 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,920 Speaker 1: studio or do you just love being entrepreneurs from the 668 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:23,720 Speaker 1: hit list list? Um, I think there, Like I wish 669 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,960 Speaker 1: when I was at NBC it had been Comcast who 670 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: owned NBC and not an NBC built for sale. Um, 671 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:38,680 Speaker 1: I think that there are some opportunities to really invest 672 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,759 Speaker 1: a ton in content that are appealing. Like it frustrates 673 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,320 Speaker 1: us a lot that ideas we know will work. I 674 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 1: have to sometimes hit a wall that you know, we're 675 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:53,600 Speaker 1: not in control of opening. Um. That being said, neither 676 00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 1: Howard or I want to go uh work in that 677 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 1: kind of rigorous, you know, regimented, closed environment. There's something 678 00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 1: so liberating that we can wake up in the morning 679 00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:12,719 Speaker 1: and talk about a documentary, a drama series of French 680 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,440 Speaker 1: production a and now we're show you know, and and 681 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:20,280 Speaker 1: able to kind of go wherever your creativity and ambition 682 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 1: takes you. Or in the talent business, you know, most 683 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,880 Speaker 1: of those conglomerates, it's got scared about being in the 684 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,160 Speaker 1: talent business, you know. So those are all things that 685 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,160 Speaker 1: are liberating on our side. And I don't think either 686 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:36,160 Speaker 1: of us would want to have to be inside one 687 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,399 Speaker 1: of those organizations. I know I would never do it again, 688 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 1: but both of our But you raise a great point. 689 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,959 Speaker 1: Both of our organizations got huge cash infusions after we left. 690 00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:48,480 Speaker 1: Nice to have that, I hear you wonderful. Thank you 691 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:50,520 Speaker 1: both so much for your time and talking through this 692 00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:52,880 Speaker 1: is really interesting and good luck to you in twenty 693 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,120 Speaker 1: We'll check in with you maybe halfway through the year. 694 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:57,759 Speaker 1: We'll see how things are going to do. Would thank you, 695 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,640 Speaker 1: thank you for It's really great to see Cynthia, thank 696 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:06,080 Speaker 1: you so much. Thanks Howard, thanks for listening. Be sure 697 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,360 Speaker 1: to tune in next week for another episode of Strictly Business. 698 00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:12,320 Speaker 1: M