1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: Rivals as a production of I Heart Radio. Hello everyone, 2 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,240 Speaker 1: and welcome to Rivals, the show about music beefs and 3 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: feuds and long submarine resentments between musicians. I'm Steve and 4 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 1: I'm Jordan's and today we're gonna talk about Courtney Love 5 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 1: versus Dave Grohl. Now, this feud is a tendency to 6 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: get mischaracterized as basically what happens when you hate your 7 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: buddy's girlfriend. You know, it's the old, tired Yoko Ono myth. 8 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: But underneath that, it's a story of life after death 9 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 1: and the complications that arise when two people have very 10 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: different ideas about how to manage an artist's legacy, and 11 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: in this case, it is the legacy of Kurt Cobain 12 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 1: and Nirvana. We recently did an episode in which I 13 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,919 Speaker 1: called Jimi Hendrix's death at age seven the greatest tragedy 14 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: in rock history. I'm sure that there are people who 15 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: would make the same case for Kurt Cobain dying also 16 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: at the age of seven being an equally big tragedy. 17 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: You know, not only do we lose so much potential music, 18 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: but a wife lost a husband and a daughter lost 19 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: a father. And then you have these fights over legacy 20 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: that inevitably happened in cases like this. It's all just depressing. Really, Yeah, 21 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: to me, there's really a genuine sadness in this feud. 22 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: It's like a family that was torn apart by drama 23 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: and greed and petty squabbles after the patriarch died. But thankfully, 24 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: the Muppets make an appearance in this episode, so hopefully 25 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: that'll offset some of the darkness. Well, now that I 26 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: know that the Muppets are involved, I'm suddenly much less depressed. 27 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: So without further ado, let's get into this mess. According 28 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: to Lore, Kurt met Courtney at a club in Portland 29 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: in either or nineteen nineties sources very she teased him 30 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: saying that he looked like the singer from Soul Asylum, 31 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 1: and within minutes they were play wrestling on the floor 32 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: of the bar. And it feels like this is a 33 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: really appropriate way to start this entire story, wrestling on 34 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: the floor of a bar. Yeah, exactly. And you know, 35 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: Corney levin this era. It's funny because you know, we 36 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: all think of her as like this nineties icon, But 37 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: if you watch movies from the eighties, like the Alex 38 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: Cox movies, sitting Nancy and Straight to Hell. I remember, like, 39 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: the first time I saw those movies, I was like, 40 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:07,919 Speaker 1: what is Courtney Love doing here? Like she just shows 41 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: up in those movies and she wasn't famous yet, but 42 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: she was kind of like a scenster, like on the 43 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: fringes of like a lot of different things. Yeah, exactly. 44 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: Kurt definitely knew who she was, not only for her 45 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: role in the music scene, but for her role in 46 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: these movies too, And there was definitely a mutual traction 47 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: right off the bat that Kurt was still with his 48 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: longtime girlfriend Tracy Marander and uh, and it wasn't gonna 49 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: happen then. But there have been a lot of myths 50 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: about Courtney and her motives for wanting to get together 51 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: with Kurt, and you know, a lot of these have 52 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: been tuned with jealousy and sexism, but it definitely seems 53 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 1: like Courtney was the aggressor when it came to getting together. 54 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: She had a huge crush on him, and she started 55 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: following Nirvana's press coverage basically like an avid sports fan. 56 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: Although it's funny, she wasn't really all that sold on 57 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: their music. She was more in a mud honey but 58 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: about a year or two went by and the one 59 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: of Courtney's friends was dating Dave Grohl, and so that 60 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: was her end in the Nirvana camp. You know, when 61 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 1: you tell your your friend that you think that their 62 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: friend is cute, you know it's going to immediately get 63 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: back to him. It's a classic classic move. So she 64 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: told Dave about her crush on Kurt, and Dave told 65 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: her that Kurt was actually now single. So Courtney decided 66 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: to shoot her shot, and she sent Kurt a heart 67 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: shaped box filled with a tiny porcelain doll, dried roses, seashells, 68 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: and a miniature teacup which he rubbed with perfume like 69 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: a magical charm, which is a bit more Stevie Nixon 70 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: I would have expected from Courtney Love, but still very interesting. Yeah, 71 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 1: and of course heart shaped box that ends up being 72 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 1: the title of an iconic Nirvana song. So you can 73 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: already see that Courtney Love, like from the beginning, was 74 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: I think having a huge impact on Kurt Cobain. Yeah, 75 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: you said this thing earlier about how you know she 76 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: had been pursuing him for almost like two years. I mean, 77 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: she had crush on him. I wasn't sure about Nirvana's music, 78 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: but like thought Kurt Cobain was was really something else, 79 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: and they don't really hook up until the fall of 80 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: nine nine one. Now what else happens in the fall, Well, 81 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: that is the release of never Mind, which comes out 82 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: in September of that year, and that album, of course, 83 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: goes off like a rocket. And I remember, like when 84 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: Smells Like Teen Spirit, you know, that video hitting MTV, 85 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: And my memory of it is that like one day 86 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: there was no Smells Like Teen Spirit, and then the 87 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: next day that video was playing every fifteen minutes. I mean, 88 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: it just seemed like Nirvana took over the culture so 89 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: quickly in the fall of And I think for people 90 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 1: who are skeptical of Courtney Love or just flat out 91 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: dislike Courtney Love, they look at this timeline and it's 92 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 1: very easy to be cynical about this and say, well, 93 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: of course she is choosing this moment in time to 94 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: finally make her move on Kurt Cobain, because he is now, 95 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, a certifiable rock star, you know, 96 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: maybe the biggest rock star on the planet. And you know, 97 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: the thing with Courtney Love is, you know, I think 98 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 1: there's people that look at her as purely evil and 99 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 1: people that look at her as this misunderstood person that 100 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: is actually much better than like how she's perceived. And 101 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: my take on Courtney Love is that everything about Courtney 102 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: is messy and complicated and you can't really put her 103 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: like in any one slot. I do think that she's 104 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: a victim of sexism. I do think that she has 105 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 1: been treated unfairly in the media almost from the time 106 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: that she became famous. But I also think that she's 107 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 1: an opportunist who was very ambitious, and I don't think 108 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: that she pursued Kurt Cobain just to further her career. 109 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: I think she was generally interested in him, but I'm 110 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: sure the fact that he was now hugely successful was 111 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: not a turn off to her. I mean, don't you think, 112 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: I mean, am I being too hard on her? I 113 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: just feel like both things can be true at the 114 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: same time. Yeah, I was gonna say I think that 115 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: she was definitely in the Curt long before he could 116 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: have been any help to her career. I think so. 117 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: I think that's definitely genuine. But yeah, the monster levels 118 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: of fame that he now had certainly didn't hurt. I mean, 119 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: there was a great description of Courtney in a w 120 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: article where they described her as a dangerous combination of 121 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: flamboyant instability and focused ambition. I thought that was a 122 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: pretty good, like both sides of Courtney coin description right there, exactly. 123 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: I think that's totally right. I think it captures her 124 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 1: and that's why she's such a fascinating figure and I 125 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: think one of the great rock stars of that time. 126 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: Like I could just read any article written about Corney 127 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: Love in the early nineties. You know, she's just like 128 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: a fountain of quotes and uh, you know, crazy anecdotes, 129 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: and she's never a dull moment. With Courtney Love and 130 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: Kurt and Courtney you know, just like never mind ends 131 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: up being like a rocket. I mean their relationship is 132 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: also like a rocket. I mean they started dating in 133 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: the fall, and by the following February, you know, I 134 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 1: guess what, like four or five months later, they're already married. 135 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: They got married in Hawaii. Uh, and Courney Love, I guess, 136 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,359 Speaker 1: was pregnant already with Francis been at this time. And 137 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 1: you can already see that there's like dissension in the 138 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: Nirvana ranks about Courtney Love because I guess Krisha didn't 139 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: show up to the wedding. It was like a pretty 140 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: small ceremony. I don't think there were any family members 141 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 1: there either, but like eight people. But like, weirdly enough, 142 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: Dave Grol was at the wedding, and there's a photo. 143 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: I think if you google like Kurt Cobain wedding Dave Growl, 144 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: you will find this photo and google images where he's 145 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: like standing between them, I think holding both of their hands. Uh. 146 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 1: Courney Love is wearing this like white dress that used 147 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: to belong to the actress Fancis Farmer. Chris Cobain, of course, 148 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: is wearing green checkered pajamas in this photo, which which 149 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: are now an heirloom. By the way, Frances Being did 150 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: a whole photo shoot in him and then Dave Girls 151 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: in the middle, And like, what is how should we 152 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: read Dave girls facial expression here? Because I feel like 153 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: he's smiling and he's obviously at the wedding, But like, 154 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: should we read like awkwardness into this photo? Is he uncomfortable? 155 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: You know? We're not his state of mind at this 156 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: time to me is unclear? Right, I can't tell if 157 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: it's like staged funny, Oh, we're having an awkward family photo, 158 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: I'm gonna make an awkward family photo face, or if 159 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: he's genuinely like not sure how to react and not 160 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,679 Speaker 1: your feels about this, Uh my gut is leaning towards 161 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: the ladder because Courtney's had a hard time, I think 162 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: fitting into the Nirvana framework. I was watching um the 163 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: Montage of Heck documentary recently, and there's some really incredible 164 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: home movie footage that was taken when the band is 165 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: in the studio and and that rehearsals and stuff, and 166 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: you watch how the band talked to Courtney, and it 167 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: can be brutal. There's a shot of I think Steve 168 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: Albany just like yelling at Courtney behind the camera like 169 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: you're not on stage right now, you can't do that here. 170 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: And like another one where like Dave girls like making 171 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: fun of her hair is saying she's just like straighten 172 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: her hair because it makes her face look less round. 173 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: And I don't know, I mean maybe it's like good 174 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: natured like band like sibling, like you know, needling kind 175 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: of thing, but I don't know. There's definitely seems like 176 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: there's an edge to it, and then the edge comes 177 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 1: through in that photo and this dynamic between Nirvana and 178 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 1: Courtney Love. Again, I feel like any attempt to simplify 179 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: it doesn't quite tell the whole story. Because if you 180 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: just say that the guys in Nirvana were sexist, or 181 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,439 Speaker 1: you know, they were I guess expecting Courtney Love to 182 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: know her place. I think there's some truth in that. 183 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: But I also think there's some truth in the idea 184 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: that Courtney Love maybe was not a great influence on 185 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: Kurt Cobain at this time, and Kurt Courbain probably wasn't 186 00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 1: a good influence for her either. I mean, they were, 187 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: I think, very quickly ahead of mythology about them of 188 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: being like the new Sid and Nancy, And there was 189 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 1: that famous I think it was a Vanity Fair story 190 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: by Lynn Hirshberg that really fueled that impression that these 191 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,839 Speaker 1: two were basically, you know, just junkies who were also 192 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 1: parents and it just not fit to be in the 193 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: role that they were in. So it seems like there 194 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: was a very kind of complicated stew here going on, 195 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: like the guys in Nirvana being protected but then also 196 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: maybe not really respecting Courtney of Love the way they 197 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: should have. Yeah, I mean, they definitely viewed her as 198 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: a bad influence, and I think that they assumed that 199 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: she brought him deeper into his heroin addiction. A lot 200 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: of people in late ears would say that that was 201 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: not true. I think the biographer Charles Cross, who wrote 202 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: Heavier Than Heaven Um, I would say, like, Courtney apparently 203 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: had been cleaned for months when she first got together 204 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: with Kurt, and according to him, uh, she made a 205 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 1: conscious choice to to basically start using again because being 206 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: with Kurt in order to be with him meant drugs essentially. 207 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: So the whole sort of mythology of court me being this, 208 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: you know, lady macbeth figure who got Kurt hooked on heroin? 209 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: Everything is. It's patently untrue and and really unfair. But 210 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: that's not to say that they weren't horrifically codependent and 211 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 1: not exactly a good influence on each other too, And 212 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 1: I think the band picked up on that. In that 213 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: same Vanity Pair story, there's a moment when I guess 214 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: Dave Grohl calls their house and wants to talk to 215 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: to Kurt, and Courtney answers, and she passed the phone 216 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: over the Kurt and she rolls her eyes at the 217 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 1: author of the story and goes everyone hates my guts 218 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: in this band, like they all hate me. So I 219 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: think from very early on she picked up on that. 220 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: You know, have you ever had a friend who is 221 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: like dating someone and maybe like the individual people in 222 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: the relationship, they're both good people, but when they get together, 223 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: it's like two bad elements coming together and it just 224 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: creates a toxic sto and you're just like, that creates 225 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: a third element that's bad and like and you're just 226 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: like you're just telling your friend, like, dump that person, 227 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,559 Speaker 1: get away from them. This is like terrible for you. 228 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:56,839 Speaker 1: I feel like the sub degree, maybe the guys in 229 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: Nirvana were like that, because it's like, even if you 230 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: recogniz guys again, I think they were bad influences on 231 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: each other. I think Kurt Cobain, like you said, he was, 232 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: I think, probably just as destructive to Courtney Love as 233 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: as she was to him. But it was just like together, 234 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: maybe it just seemed like there was a weird mojo 235 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,839 Speaker 1: going on that maybe other people could pick up on. 236 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I think the other thing too, that like 237 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: you really can't downgrade, is that Courtney Love was also 238 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: a big instigator and changing the royalty agreement that the 239 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: guys in Nirvana had because I think originally, like, wasn't 240 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: it an even split between the three of them, and 241 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: then she was pushing for Kurt to get like a 242 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:34,719 Speaker 1: bigger piece of the pie. Yeah, there's been a lot 243 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: of debate on that. I mean, after never Mind went 244 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: through the roof, I guess Kurt supposedly threatened to quit 245 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: if his bandmates didn't agree to changing the split agreement 246 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: on the songwriting royalties. And yeah, they had divided it 247 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: evenly before, and I guess now Kurt wanted a a 248 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: seventy split for the music and then he was going 249 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:55,719 Speaker 1: to get of the lyrical cut, and Dave and Chris 250 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: felt betrayed, but you know, they didn't want to torpedo 251 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: this band and that was now, you know, the biggest 252 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: band in the world, So they went along with it. 253 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 1: But they blamed Courtney for this, and whether or not 254 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: that's right or wrong is up for debate again. Charles 255 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:11,559 Speaker 1: Cross again says that the decision was actually all Kurts. 256 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 1: It's impossible to note for sure, but the band at 257 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: least believed to be Courtney's doing. And in fairness, I mean, 258 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: Kurt Cobain was writing the songs I mean, so I 259 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: understand whether it was Kurt's idea to do that or 260 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: Courtney or them together, it's not outrageous for him to 261 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 1: ask for that. The argument for splitting things evenly is 262 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: that these sorts of arguments always derail bands. So there 263 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: are bands that will just split things evenly just to 264 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: take it out of the equation. But you know, if 265 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: you have someone who is coming up with all the material, 266 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: you know there's going to be some resentment probably on 267 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: his part, and he's gonna feel like he deserves more 268 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: of the money. Of course, you know, the irony of this, 269 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: if irony is the right word, is that, you know, 270 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 1: like you said, Groll and No Sala, they agreed to 271 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: this to keep Nirvana together. But then, of course Nirvana 272 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: didn't last much longer because Kurt Cobain takes his own 273 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: life in ninety four and now they have this, you know, 274 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: uneven split greatly in Kirk Cobain's favor, But now it's 275 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: going to be Courtney Love who's gonna have the advantage 276 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,679 Speaker 1: of that. So that's going to complicate things as we 277 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: move into this sort of post Kurt Cobain era. Yeah, 278 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: and I mean the late nineties. The feud doesn't really 279 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: erupt publicly because I think everyone is just so shocked 280 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: by by what had happened. Then it just would be, 281 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: you know, not a very good look for Kirk Colebain's 282 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: widow to be feuding with this former bandmates. But Dave 283 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: Grohl has been recording is Is Debbie with the Foo 284 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: Fighters in the wake of Kurt's death, and of course 285 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: Nirvana fans are listening really closely trying to hear any 286 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 1: kind of like lyrical clue to you know, what Dave 287 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: might say about Kurt's passing or something. And the one 288 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: song that really sticks out that these people are I'll 289 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 1: stick Around, which features the line I'm the only one 290 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: who sees you're rehearsed insanity, which many took to be 291 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: about Courtney, which you're not the only one who sees that, 292 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: by the way, Dave Grohl, I think a lot of 293 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 1: other people saw that. But you know, be that as 294 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:56,959 Speaker 1: it may. I guess there was gonna be a video 295 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: too that was supposed to like have a floating vision 296 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: of this like bloated inflatable girl that was supposed to 297 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 1: represent Courtney, but Dave's management was like, yeah, you don't 298 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: want to do that. You don't want to go down 299 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: that road. Please don't do that. Yeah, that would have 300 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,599 Speaker 1: been underlining it. Probably a little bit too much. I 301 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: mean that comes out on the first Food Fighters record, 302 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:18,079 Speaker 1: which drops in and you know, is really I mean 303 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: that record did really well, and then the next bunch 304 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: of records did even better, really establishing Dave Grohl as 305 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: like a viable solo artist. I think of that song 306 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: Stacked Actors that appeared on the third Food Fighters record, 307 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: There's nothing less left to lose, where he's saying stacked 308 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: dead actors, stacked to the rafters, lineup, you bastards. All 309 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: I want is the truth. They all die blond, which, 310 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: you know, the thing with that song, I think the 311 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: context of that, and I feel like people forget this 312 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: that there was this period in the nineties like where 313 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: Courtney Love was like a really viable, like yeah, movie star, 314 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: almost like an A list star. She was like in 315 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: The People versus Larry Flint, she was in A Man 316 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: in the Moon, the English Foreman, Adie coppin Bio Pick, 317 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: and she had this makeover where you know, she went 318 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: from being this you know, very aggressive punk rock woman 319 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: in the early nineties to being this like beautiful, glamorous 320 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: movie star Marilyn Monroe stuff. Yeah, it was an incredible 321 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: transformation that happened after Kurt Cobain died. And again, I 322 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: think for cynics looking at this, it was very easy 323 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,479 Speaker 1: to look at Courtney Love and say she is parlaying 324 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: the notoriety that she got from Nirvana and Kurt Cobain's 325 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: death and just she's like parlated into this very sort 326 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: of conventional Hollywood stardom. And you know, again, as with 327 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: all things with Courtney Love, I think that is on 328 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: one hand, horribly unfair, But on the other hand, it's 329 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: like not totally untrue either, like there is an element 330 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: of truth there that it just makes it, I think, 331 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: really fascinating to talk about Courtney Love and also difficult 332 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: because you can't really put her in anyone box, right. 333 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: I mean, Dave Is has been very wary of of 334 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: confirming what that song is about, but I'll stick around. 335 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: He's definitely said, he confirmed his biographer that you know, 336 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: I don't think it's any c scurt that will stick 337 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: around about Courtney of denied it for fifteen years, he said, 338 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: always back, but I'll just come out and say I 339 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: just read the words. Yeah, it's like, just just admit 340 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: that Stacked Actors is too. I feel like that is 341 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: a pretty direct hit at Courtney Love, especially considering that, 342 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: like a n I think that was the year of 343 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: like his big Howard Stern interview, like where we went 344 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: after Courtney Love, because I feel like that's the moment 345 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: where this feud kind of goes from being like a 346 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: behind the scenes thing to like going full out in 347 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: the public. Yeah, this is when the flames first start 348 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: to appear. There was smoked before, but this is when 349 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: it gets This is when it gets hot. Dave Girl 350 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: goes on Howard Stern and uh, he's asked what his 351 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: favorite whole song is, what his favorite song in the 352 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: whole discography, and he starts teenage Whore and he says 353 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: it's because I know she she being Courtneys, because I 354 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: know she wrote it, and which is an apparent in 355 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: situation that other people, specifically Kurt helped her pad out 356 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: holes breakout album live through this, which there's corneal truth 357 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: to that, as with most of rumors, did sing backing 358 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: vocals on two songs, asking for It and Softer Softest, 359 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: and he also wrote a B side, old Age, but 360 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: I don't think he was credited on that, and he uh, 361 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: given that the album came out a week after Kurt's death, 362 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: Kurt really wasn't able to rebuke any of these rumors himself. 363 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: But aside from just pure sexism in general dislike of Courtney, 364 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: listeners kind of observed that the sound was very different 365 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: from Hole's first album, Pretty on the Inside, and you know, 366 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 1: they're marriage is a creative partnership, especially there's and I'm 367 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: sure they inspired one another, just like Courtney inspired a 368 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:31,400 Speaker 1: lot of stuff on in Utero to. I mean, Kurt 369 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: started writing differently on that too. But but yeah, those 370 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: rumors have been persisting for years that Kurt was really 371 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: sort of a ghostwriter of Lived Through This. Well, there's that, 372 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: and there's also the album's celebrity skin that Billy Corgan 373 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: was a big contributor to, and I think he's actually 374 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: credited as a co writer on like four or five songs, 375 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: including the single Malibu, So it's not like that was 376 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: some sneaky thing. But yeah, that's always been the thing, 377 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 1: Like with the two most successful Whole records, that Courtney 378 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: Love was basically relying on the men in her at 379 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,880 Speaker 1: that time to write songs and and and to prop 380 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: her up artistically, which ye, it's a very sexist thing 381 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: to say, because I think clearly those records like Hole 382 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,679 Speaker 1: Lived Through This there is like a Nirvana like element 383 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: to it, but there's also a very sort of strong 384 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: Courney Love element to that record too. I would say 385 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: that Lived Through This is actually an even more scathing 386 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: record than in Euro is like the Courtney Love like 387 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: goes like another step farther, and I think Celebrity Skin 388 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,199 Speaker 1: is a record that, like, you can hear some of 389 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 1: the Billy Corgan influences, but it's like, it doesn't sound 390 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 1: like Smashing Pumpkins. It sounds like an like an l 391 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: A rock record. It sounds like her version of like 392 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: a Fleetwood Mac record, which Courtney Love has always been 393 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: very upfront about that being an influence on her, and 394 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: it seems more Courtney than it would be Billy Corgan. 395 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: But you know, Courtney Love, she's not gonna take this 396 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 1: lying down that Dave grol is accusing her of, you know, 397 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: being artistically illegitimate. She goes on Howard Stern herself, and 398 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: she says, one Kurt hated Dave grol and like wanted 399 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: him out of the band. I think she says, like 400 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: he hated his guts. She like sang a song that 401 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: she made up a song on the spot, just basically 402 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 1: consisting of the words like he hated just brutal. And 403 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: then she says that, you know that Dave Roll stood 404 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: out in Nirvana because he was like this nice guy, 405 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: almost like a jock type person, you know, next to 406 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 1: Kurt and Chris, who are more of these you know, 407 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: sort of sensitive art weirdo types. And it's fascinating to 408 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: me because like, if you look at these dueling interviews 409 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: that they're doing, they're basically calling each other posers, you know, 410 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: which is like the most punk rock of all insults, 411 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: you know, because like Dave is saying that Corney Love 412 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:33,719 Speaker 1: is artistically a poster, that she's not really writing her 413 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: own songs, whereas Courtney is saying that Dave is like 414 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: a lifestyle poser, that like he's this rock guy, but 415 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: he's really just sort of like, you know, like this 416 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: lame dude who uh ended up in Nirvana, but he 417 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: really wasn't of Nirvana. He didn't really represent the spirit 418 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: of the band. One thing that she said that I 419 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,919 Speaker 1: thought was funny was that she says that like whenever 420 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: Dave role like goes after her, that he doesn't like 421 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: attack her directly, he implies it, which she says is 422 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: even lamer, you know, which is very Courtney Love thing 423 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,679 Speaker 1: to do, because Courtney Love, you know, he goes with 424 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: the judge. She jumps into the mosh pit, you know, 425 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: she will throw punches. And Dave Growl is this sort 426 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 1: of like teflon rocker in a lot of ways. He's 427 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 1: I mean, like now he's like the mayor of rock 428 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: and roll essentially, Like he's like this. Everyone loves Dave Brol. 429 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: I love Dave Rol. I think you love Dave Grol. 430 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: He's the Tom Hanks of rock. He's very charming and 431 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: he's and he's done a lot of great things in music. 432 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: But to me, like, I think what is compelling about 433 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 1: these interviews is that they both I think draw blood 434 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: in their comments. I think there's I think that they're 435 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: hitting each other's soft spots because there's a lot of truth, 436 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: I think, and what each of them are saying not 437 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 1: so much. I don't think it's true necessarily that Dave. 438 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,360 Speaker 1: What Dave said about Courtney Love you know, sort of 439 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: not writing her own songs, but like the idea of her, 440 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,400 Speaker 1: I guess just being an opportunist or someone who puts 441 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: herself in the right position. There's a ring of truth 442 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: to that, just as it is with Dave Role that 443 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: he is maybe the jockeyest guy in Nirvana, Like there's 444 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: some truth to that. So yeah, they're both drawing blood 445 00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: with these interviews big time. All right hand, We'll be 446 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:10,479 Speaker 1: right back with more rivals. So this is now out 447 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 1: in the open. The feud has erupted, and it goes 448 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:19,360 Speaker 1: absolutely next level. In UH two thousand one, when Nirvana 449 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: plans to release a tenth anniversary box set of rarities 450 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: and it would include a new Vana song, you Know 451 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: You're Right, which is one of the last things the 452 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: band ever recorded, and UH Courtney blocks its release, and 453 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:33,639 Speaker 1: she said that the song would have been wasted on 454 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 1: a box set and would be better suited to a 455 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 1: singles collection, kind of like the Beatles one, which had 456 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 1: just gone you know, multi multi multi platinum, which is 457 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 1: not a bad that that makes a lot of sense. 458 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, people are gonna buy fifteen dollars 459 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: on a on an album for a new Nirvana song 460 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,399 Speaker 1: versus shelling out, you know, like a hundred bucks for 461 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: a box set. It's a good business decision for sure. 462 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:54,919 Speaker 1: Maybe it's a better fan decision to put it on 463 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: a box set because you're getting all this other stuff. 464 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: But like, if you want to squeeze money, how to 465 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: people and forced them to buy songs? They already have 466 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 1: put it on the Greatest Hits album because people are 467 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 1: definitely gonna buy that, right, So she bars their use 468 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:11,199 Speaker 1: of this song. And this sparks an enormous legal feud, 469 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: and not to get too granular about it, basically about 470 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: their legal partnership of Nirvana, and the thumbnail version is 471 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 1: a few years after Kirk died, um Groll, Nova, Salage, 472 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: and Love all came together in a business partnership, and 473 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: Courtney in later years would say that she was sort 474 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,159 Speaker 1: of coerced into this, that she'd gotten bad advice from 475 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: her lawyers, and that they surviving Nirvana band members. She 476 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: was grief stricken and not in a good headspace, and 477 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: they basically forced her to sign this document that would 478 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: make them all partners and uh, and so now she 479 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 1: wants out. She wants to control Nirvana's legacy completely. She 480 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: thinks that Dave and Chris have interfered with poor stewards 481 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: of her husband's legacy, and have interfered with a Kurt 482 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: Cobain movie and prevented all sorts of Nirvana releases, and 483 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: apparently she says that they even threatened us destroying Nirvana recordings, 484 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 1: which is crazy if true, I mean it doesn't. I 485 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 1: can't imagine that's true. So she wants to dissolve this 486 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: partnership because she basically says, you know what this it 487 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: was never a partnership in life. Kurt was Nirvana. Nirvana 488 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: was Kurt's songs, and so Kurt was Nirvana. She had 489 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: a great quote from a lawsuit which just said this 490 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: could never be a partnership because it was the living 491 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: manifestation of the creative vision, personal will, and life force 492 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: of a single, unique individual. Basically, Nirvana was a young 493 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 1: one man show, and Dave and Crisper Sideman, especially Dave, 494 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: who was she basically wrote off as being like the 495 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,239 Speaker 1: band's sixth drama here right. Uh So that's where she 496 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,719 Speaker 1: was at with that. She wanted to break the partnership up. 497 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: Now this might surprise you, but Dave and Chris didn't 498 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: agree with this assessment they thought we are not sidemen, 499 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: that Nirvana was a band, and that they basically painted 500 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: Courtney Love as again this person who was using the 501 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: legacy of Nirvana to further her own ends. And they 502 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 1: go into all these like crazy accusations against Courtney Love, 503 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: Like they said that she allowed Smells like teen Spirit 504 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: to be in the bos Lerman movie Mulan Rouge because 505 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: she wanted to be in the movie, uh, and that 506 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: the role that she wanted actually went to Nicole Kidman ultimately. 507 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: And again this is like the whole idea that she 508 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 1: is just leveraging all of the credibility that Nirvana has, 509 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: like to lend her own pockets. And I think that 510 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: was their argument in favor of the box set, like 511 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 1: they felt like this was the best way to represent 512 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: their legacy and that she was holding a hostage. They 513 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: end up countersuing Courtney Love because they wanted to like 514 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: basically get her out of the partnership, right. They wanted 515 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: like basically Frances when she came of age, somebody was 516 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: a little less combative to be in the in the 517 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: Nirvana partnership because they just didn't want to deal with 518 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: Courtney anymore. I I think they settled out of court 519 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 1: in around sometime in two thousand two for I assume 520 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: a gazillion dollars. I have no idea how much, but 521 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 1: it's not been made public. But yeah, so Courtney ends 522 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: up still staying part of the partnership. You know, there's 523 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: another issue at this time too, that when Kristen Dave 524 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,400 Speaker 1: were responding to like the Courtney Love accusations, they talk 525 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: about how, you know, they both made a point to 526 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 1: not talk about Kurt Cobain after he died, like they 527 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: didn't do any interviews about him, and they didn't like 528 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: the fact that Courtney Love would sort of freely talk 529 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: about Kurt all the time and interviews. They felt that 530 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: she was basically misrepresenting his death and and what his 531 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 1: intentions were in the band. And clearly like these, you know, 532 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: these comments about how you know, Kurt didn't really respect 533 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: his bandmates and that he looked at as as as 534 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 1: like a one man show. Essentially, I mean that stuff 535 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: must have especially rankled his bandmates in Nirvana. But again, 536 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 1: it's just like it's interesting because like, on one hand, 537 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,199 Speaker 1: you I can see their perspective, but it's also like 538 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: Corny loves his wife, Like, you know, that's that's her husband. 539 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: I feel like there's a different standard there in terms 540 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: of like what she's allowed to talk about in an interview. Uh. Again, 541 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: it's just like part of the messiness of these types 542 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 1: of situations because you're dealing with Kurt Cobain as basically 543 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,679 Speaker 1: as a product on one hand, like the most valuable 544 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: product of this company that they formed, but he was 545 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 1: also a human being, you know, and like how do 546 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: you grieve a human being but also preserve the financial 547 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: viability of the product at the same time. I mean 548 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: it seems like that's a big tension right here. Yeah, 549 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 1: it's such a testament to how they all dealt with 550 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: grief too. I mean, you know, I guess Courtney sort 551 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: of outranked the other two because as his wife rather 552 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: than band members. But I don't know. But Chris to, 553 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: I mean they were high school friends together with childhood 554 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: friends and everything too. Yeah, It's I can definitely see 555 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: how they would think it would be really disrespectful for 556 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: her to sort of be as open as she was 557 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: about their their relationship and dirty laundry. But um, yeah, 558 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: I guess at the end of the day, it comes 559 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,400 Speaker 1: down to like different people grieve differently and accepting that 560 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,479 Speaker 1: I suppose, But yeah, the whole lawsuit didn't really do 561 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 1: much for their interpersonal relationships too, And in Courtney ended 562 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: up getting her own way, And there was a single 563 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 1: disc Greatest Hits Uh compilation that came out with the 564 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: unreleased Nirvana song and Christmas two thousand two, and things 565 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: kind of quieted down for a few years with the 566 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: few between Dave and Courtney, and then the Food Fighters 567 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: released Echoes, Silence, Patient and Grace in two thousand seven, 568 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 1: and it has the song let It Die, which many 569 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: assumed was a sketch of Kurt and Courtney. The lyrics 570 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: depict a simple man in his blushing bride intravenous intertwined 571 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: you're so considerate? Did you ever think of me? Which 572 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: I mean you've got Heroin references in there, and I 573 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,639 Speaker 1: always wondered if the did you ever think of me? 574 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: It was his sort of plea to Kurt, sort of 575 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 1: not to go um. And Davis has addressed this, and 576 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: he's kind of been really enigmatic about what the song 577 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: was about. He said he was written about feeling helpless 578 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: to someone else's demonitors, which I think there you go, right, there. Yeah, 579 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: well then he actually just fled out called her and 580 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: pardon me for saying this an ugly fucking bitch. At 581 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: one point, didn't he like during a concert around this time? 582 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 1: That is true, Yes, I think it was around that time. 583 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: That's a little less a little less poetic, I guess. Yeah, 584 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: it's like, if you're going to say that on stage, 585 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: like why all the sort of coy answers about the song, 586 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: I mean, if you're gonna be I mean, because that's 587 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 1: a pretty brutal thing to say about the widow of 588 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 1: your former bandmate. I mean, that's, uh, that's not the 589 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: dave girl, nice guy that we're used to talking about. 590 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:06,679 Speaker 1: But I think it really speaks to I guess the 591 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: frustration of this time, you know, just kind of going 592 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 1: through that lawsuit and everything that they had been through 593 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: up to that point. Yeah, it's like a hard time 594 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 1: believing it. Like I was like really trying to like 595 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 1: find a video of it or something like it seems 596 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: like really a character But yeah, apparently hopefully it's not true. 597 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 1: We'll just put it out there. But it's been often 598 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 1: reported that he said that around that time, and of 599 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,679 Speaker 1: course Courtney Love, she hears about this, she's not a 600 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,679 Speaker 1: fan of this song. She goes after Dave Grohl, and 601 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 1: I don't know if she took this tack before in 602 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: her attacks on Dave Growl, because like at this point 603 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: she's basically saying that like he's talking about me all 604 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: the time because he's actually like attracted to me, or 605 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: like he actually wanted to go out with me. I guess. 606 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: She goes like on my Space. That's how long ago 607 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: this was. By the way, she does a MySpace post 608 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: where she says basically that like, like you're so obsessed 609 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: with me, you write all these songs about me all 610 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: the time, You've like hit on me, you know, like 611 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: when we've been to other And she has this quote 612 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: that's pretty funny. She says, he's just a sub mediocre 613 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: kind of guy who does this nice guy nonsense nice 614 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: guys and quotes. There isn't a word that he could 615 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: say that would ruffle my feathers. Honestly, anyway, what a fun, 616 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: fabulous special evening. H sub mediocre kind of that that's 617 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: up there with Bill Murray calling Chevy Chase a medium 618 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: that's like an incredible insult. So again, you know, she's 619 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: saying that you know he's a phony essentially that he 620 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: is actually not that nice of a guy, but he 621 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: has this nice guy image and then also insinuating that 622 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: like he's actually into her and and that's why he 623 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: keeps talking about her all the time. So, yeah, things 624 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: have really reached another like new low at this point. Yeah, 625 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: but then we get to probably my favorite wrinkle in 626 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: the Day of Kurtney feud, which is in two thousand nine, 627 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 1: uh Day have licensed Kurt Cobain's likeness to Guitar Hero 628 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: video game Guitar Hero and uh and you can play 629 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: Kurt Cobain playing smells like teen Spirit, he's dressed and 630 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: just like video which, okay, that's fine, but there's a 631 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: bonus feature in this game where you could make Kurt 632 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: play all the other available songs in this game, which 633 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: means that there are scenes where Kurt Cobain could be 634 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: seen rocking out Till You Give Love a Bad Name 635 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: and Billy Idol tracks and those clips of this on 636 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: YouTube and it is actually genuinely jarring and shocking to see. 637 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: It's really weird, and fans of course were up in 638 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: arms over this. And then both Courtney and the surviving 639 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 1: members of Nirvana basically point their fingers at each other, 640 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: saying it was them, was their fault. Yeah, Courtney. She 641 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: goes on this basically just tear on Twitter two tweets 642 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: about this guitar hero thing, and one of the more 643 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: memorable tweets, she says, you can ask rape Dave. He 644 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: was always a bad seed. And it is still reading 645 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: the ship while I take bullets. If there's a hell 646 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: he's going, I'm not, Um, I feel like there should 647 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: be some punctuation in there. It's a little hard to 648 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 1: read for me. Um. Look, I have to say, like 649 00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: this is repulsive to me that like you can sell 650 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: the likeness of someone who's no longer living and put 651 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: him in a video game and just make him do 652 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: like whatever you want. Like it just seems so wrong 653 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: to me. I guess, like like David Chris, like they 654 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: basically said, like, well, we didn't know that they were 655 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: going to do this, And I think they asked a 656 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: guitar hero to basically like lock the image so that 657 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 1: he can only play Nirvana songs. But even then I 658 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: just find that so weird, Like why would you do that? 659 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 1: I just think there's like something really wrong about let's 660 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,719 Speaker 1: gonna get worse with all the all the deep fakes 661 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: and all the hologround. It's gonna get so much worse 662 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: man like in the coming years. But yeah, they basically 663 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: were like, we just said that you could use the music. 664 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: Like the likeness and stuff was all Courtney. That's all 665 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: you know, she is the head of his estate. That's all. 666 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: That's all her doing. I mean, did anyone to own 667 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: up to this. Did anyone ever say like, oh, this 668 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: is my fault or did they just say like, no, 669 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 1: it was the other person? Is that how that ended? 670 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: I think the video game company was like, no, we 671 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 1: worked really closely with Courtney. She like chose what alfab 672 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 1: he was going to wear and everything, and she was 673 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: actually really great to work with. It sounds like, I mean, 674 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: she was the one who was actually the point of 675 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: person with the video game company. And my guess is 676 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: that she just wasn't aware of the stuff she was signing, 677 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: which I mean, you know, sounds that that holds water 678 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: that she wasn't sure that it was actually going to 679 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: be this like special feature where you could play all 680 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 1: these other songs that Kurt would never be never be 681 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: cut in a million years playing. So it seems like 682 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: the pattern that we've had so far is that Dave 683 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: Grohl will write a song in which he vaguely refers 684 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 1: to Courtney Love, or you have the instance of the 685 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: Howard Stern interview where he's directly impugning her artistic contributions 686 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 1: to her own records. But the next step in this 687 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: battle occurs, and now it's Courtney Love being the instigator. 688 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this is brutal. It's mid concert at the 689 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: SWU festival in Brazil and a fan holds up a 690 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: picture of Kurt Cobain in front of Courtney, which I 691 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: guess could be triggering. I mean, you know, it's it's 692 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: probably still upsetting. I imagine. Yeah, that's not a cool 693 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: thing to do. It's like her husband, You don't need 694 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: to bring it to a show. What are you doing? 695 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: Absolutely yeah. However, this provoked a very lengthy tirade from Courtney, 696 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: who said it was stupid and rude, which it was, 697 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: and that she has to live with his ghost every day, 698 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 1: which is horrible, and that she was going to beat 699 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: the funk out of the dude if he held up 700 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: that picture. Again. Very Courtney Love. By this point, she 701 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 1: was rolling and she just really started to unload. You know, 702 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 1: you weren't looking married to him. I was. But then 703 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: this all scans to this point. But then she rounds 704 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: on Dave. You weren't kicked out of a band by him, 705 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 1: like Dave. It's just an amazing way to segue into 706 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: an insult by telling a crowd that, like Kurt Cobain 707 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: kicked Dave Grol out of Nirvana, She's to go see 708 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 1: the fucking Foo Fighters and do that ship. I don't 709 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: care what you listened to at home, but if a 710 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 1: guy takes money off my kid's table, fuck him. So 711 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: I don't know how Dave Grol got in the middle 712 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: of that. It was just sort of like a she 713 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: was just like a stream of consciousness rant and all 714 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: of a sudden she's taking shots at Dave Grohl. But 715 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: I mean, this is a narrative in the in the 716 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: Nirvana story, this idea of like if Nirvana had somehow 717 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: carried on, would Dave Grohl have you ether been fired 718 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 1: from the band or if he would have left the band? 719 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: And look I am of I'm of the opinion that 720 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: like Nirvana became the world conquering Nirvana when Dave Grohl 721 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: joined that like if he hadn't been the drumaly, I 722 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 1: don't think that never Mind would have been as successful 723 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: as it was. Like if you listen to some of 724 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 1: those songs played like with different drummers, like, it doesn't 725 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: sound like the record, it doesn't sound like I mean, 726 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: there's still good songs. It's and I love Bleach, I 727 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 1: love you know, the songs Zone and Sesticide. But there's 728 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 1: no question that like the arena rock Nirvana, you know, 729 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 1: the pop rock Nirvana just gained so much from the 730 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 1: power and precision that Dave grol brought to the proceedings. 731 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,240 Speaker 1: And I mean he's really like one of my favorite 732 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: drummers of all time. I Mean the downside to me 733 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: of the Food Fighters is that Dave Grohl doesn't play 734 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 1: drums that much anymore. And I just love him as 735 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 1: a drummer. But it does seem like there was some 736 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 1: truth to the idea that Dave Grohl was considering leaving 737 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: because Kurt Cobain would make disparaging comments about his drumming. 738 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 1: There's a story from Dave Girl's biography where I guess 739 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 1: Dave roll overheard uh Kurt Cobain complaining about Dave's shitty drumming, 740 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,439 Speaker 1: which is insane to me that you called Dave Girl 741 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: a shitty drummer, but like he wanted a girl to 742 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: play more like Dan Peters from Mud Honey, basically to 743 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,359 Speaker 1: be more of like a punk rock drummer. I think, really, 744 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 1: Kurt Cobain, I think his problem with Dave girls drumming 745 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 1: wasn't that it was shitty is it was that it 746 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,479 Speaker 1: was too slick probably or it was like too good. 747 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,840 Speaker 1: I think he actually wanted a shitty drummer and he 748 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 1: was mad that Dave Row actually wasn't shitty. Um. But 749 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean, I don't know how you 750 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: feel about this. I think this is like a thought 751 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,759 Speaker 1: experiment that all Nirvana fans play that if Nirvana had 752 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 1: continued with Dave Roll stay in the band, Because obviously 753 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 1: he was already writing the songs that would be on 754 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 1: the first Food Fighters record, and he had a much 755 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 1: different sensibility from Kurt Cobain. It's hard for me to 756 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: imagine that he would have stayed. I mean, because he 757 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 1: was writing great songs, I don't think they would have 758 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,919 Speaker 1: really fit in the context of Nirvana. I just feel 759 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: like he probably would have been out like in a 760 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 1: university of Nirvana stays together in the nineties, I feel 761 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 1: like would have been out by Like, yeah, it's so 762 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 1: interesting because it's like you can't really trust what he 763 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 1: says now because it's just the revisionism and everything is 764 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: so strong. Given what happened to Kurt. He gave an 765 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 1: interview to Howard Stern a couple of years ago where 766 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: he was basically asked this was and he said, yeah, 767 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,360 Speaker 1: I was writing songs, but Nirvana was great. I was 768 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,360 Speaker 1: happy just being a drummer, and I didn't want to 769 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: interfere with what Kurt was doing, which I just I 770 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 1: find that impossible to believe. I don't know, I just 771 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: see him as like this George Harrison figure of like 772 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:35,359 Speaker 1: bursting with ideas and potential, being stuck in this thing that, yes, 773 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,880 Speaker 1: is hugely successful, but really doesn't allow him any kind 774 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 1: of outlet whatsoever. I mean, maybe he would start contributing 775 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 1: songs to Nirvana. Maybe he would have his own side 776 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: project as the Food Fighters, which you know, I think 777 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,840 Speaker 1: then would definitely be you know, second Banana to Nirvana, obviously, 778 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,919 Speaker 1: uh and probably way less. You know, he probably would 779 00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 1: would put out a quarter or the number of albums 780 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 1: that he's released, because I imagine energy would go to 781 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,840 Speaker 1: Nirvana all that time. Uh yeah, it's tough to say. 782 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 1: I can't imagine he would stick around. Yeah, and if 783 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: there was already negativity anyway coming from Kurt about his playing, 784 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,360 Speaker 1: it just seems like, I don't know, it's hard for 785 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: me to imagine Dave doing that. But getting back to 786 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,719 Speaker 1: that Brazil show where Courtney just went off about, you know, 787 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,800 Speaker 1: sparked by the Kurt Cobain photo. She didn't interview after 788 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,879 Speaker 1: that concert where she picked up the attack on Dave 789 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 1: Grohl like she went after him again. Yeah, she just 790 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 1: keeps rolling. She says that Dave didn't write a single 791 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:35,760 Speaker 1: note for the band, and she said, I wasn't in Nirvana. However, 792 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,839 Speaker 1: I do own Nirvana, which is such an amazing mic 793 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: drop with my daughter, she adds um and then she 794 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 1: starts complaining about how it's not fair that that Dave 795 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 1: has a Nirvana Inc. Credit card that he can buy 796 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,319 Speaker 1: you know, acid, Martin's on and stuff. And meanwhile he's 797 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 1: getting five million dollars a show that you know, why 798 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,720 Speaker 1: is he such a big player in the Nirvana legacy 799 00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 1: when he didn't write anything and Kurt owns a d 800 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,239 Speaker 1: percent of the published was her? Was her? So yeah, 801 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,319 Speaker 1: we're in the era now where you know, we've moved 802 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,240 Speaker 1: out of the era where Dave Grol was writing veiled 803 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: insults at Courtney Love, and now we're in the era 804 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,879 Speaker 1: where Courtney Love is just doing both barrels at Dave 805 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: Grole seemingly in every interview. And we get to and 806 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, we've talked about you know, 807 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 1: this ribbalty reaching like new lows at every step of 808 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 1: the way. This is the lowest of the low, I think. 809 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 1: At this point, so Courney Love, she goes on another 810 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,759 Speaker 1: like multi tweet thread just railing at Dave Role, where 811 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: she accuses Grole of hitting on Francis Bean. I mean, 812 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 1: did she say that it went beyond that? I think 813 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:41,200 Speaker 1: she said it went beyond that, Yeah, I think so. 814 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 1: I think the word used was seduced, I believe man. 815 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 1: So that's implying that there was some sort of physical 816 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: relationship between Dave Grohl and Kurt Cobain's very young daughter, 817 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: And of course Dave Growl immediately denies this, as does 818 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:58,640 Speaker 1: Francis been. Francis Bean actually has like the most devastating 819 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,680 Speaker 1: response to this where she says Twitter should ban my mother. 820 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 1: After this, I think she says, like, you know, I 821 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:07,799 Speaker 1: have never been approached by Dave Row and more than 822 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 1: a platonic way, I'm in a monogonous relationship and very happy, 823 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,399 Speaker 1: and just refers to her as my biological mother, which 824 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,440 Speaker 1: I think is a pretty devastating term. And I think 825 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: Cortney Love eventually retracted that, but that's like another thing 826 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 1: where I wonder where that came from. It just seems 827 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 1: so random, like to bring that up just purely to 828 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 1: hurt I don't know. And then like that's what's so 829 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 1: terrible with these kind of like social media accusations. I mean, 830 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,359 Speaker 1: you can retracted, but you know it's still out there, 831 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 1: like you still Google that, and that's still a thing 832 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:40,920 Speaker 1: that comes up, like it's still in people's heads and everything, 833 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,560 Speaker 1: and the retraction is almost beside the point too. You know, 834 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 1: that's definitely too little, too late, especially in like the 835 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 1: digital social media age too. Is Yeah, I can only 836 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,480 Speaker 1: imagine it's purely just to lash out. So now that 837 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:55,520 Speaker 1: we're at the lowest point of this episode, it's time 838 00:39:55,520 --> 00:40:00,120 Speaker 1: to bring up the Muppets. Yes, here we go. This 839 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,040 Speaker 1: is the same year. This is Courtney hits out at 840 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 1: Dave for letting smells like teen Spirit be used in 841 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 1: the Jason Segel Muppet movie that I never asked for, 842 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,560 Speaker 1: I want ever asked for. She was talking to the 843 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,480 Speaker 1: Daily News and she said, we got no money from 844 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,760 Speaker 1: the Muppets. We got nothing. It made Jason Segel feel special. 845 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,320 Speaker 1: But Dave knows Kurt wouldn't have wanted to be a Muppet. 846 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 1: Let's have a little fought experiment for a moment, Stephen. 847 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:25,480 Speaker 1: Do you think that Kurt would ever have wanted to 848 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:27,680 Speaker 1: be a Muppet? You know, I think he probably would 849 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:29,920 Speaker 1: have liked that. Actually, you know, and again he was 850 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,919 Speaker 1: in the Weird Owl exactly. He let Weird Owl do 851 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,399 Speaker 1: the was I smells like Nirvana parody? Yeah, I think 852 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: he would have looked at the Muppets as being this 853 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: sort of lovable product of his youth, you know, which 854 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,279 Speaker 1: I think is different than the guitar hero thing that 855 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,360 Speaker 1: was a little more crass to me, whereas the Muppets, 856 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,239 Speaker 1: like everyone loves the Muppets, there was a childlike thing 857 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,600 Speaker 1: to Kurt Cobain too. I think he appreciated, you know, 858 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,560 Speaker 1: like kids and and kid culture. So I have no 859 00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:57,799 Speaker 1: idea how he would have felt, because again, this was 860 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 1: what I think twenty years after he died. So we're 861 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 1: all speculating on what deceased Kurt Cobain would think of 862 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,240 Speaker 1: the Muppets. But I'm I'm going on the pro side 863 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 1: for that. Um, this is for those of you just 864 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,239 Speaker 1: joining us, we're speculating on weather Cobain would like to 865 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,480 Speaker 1: have been in the Muppets. Uh. This all is leading 866 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:17,400 Speaker 1: up to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction 867 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:21,000 Speaker 1: which occurs, and it seems like, you know, after all 868 00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,200 Speaker 1: of this negativity that's been going on for for twenty years, 869 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,719 Speaker 1: that there's a fairly sudden like about face, like for 870 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,240 Speaker 1: all the parties involved. Like Courtney Love tells a story 871 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,840 Speaker 1: about how you know, she was there at the ceremony 872 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,360 Speaker 1: with Francis Been. She said that she hadn't even like 873 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 1: seen or talked to Dave or Chris in twenty years, 874 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 1: and apparently they didn't even talk at the funeral, which 875 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:45,120 Speaker 1: seems really sad crazy to me. But apparently everyone they 876 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,919 Speaker 1: ran into each other, as these things often happened there 877 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,480 Speaker 1: there by the bathroom, and they run into each other 878 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 1: and they just decide to suddenly put aside all this 879 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,080 Speaker 1: bad blood and they hug it out and they end 880 00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: up having like a really nice night at the Rock 881 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,040 Speaker 1: and Roll Hall of Fame and Auction, And it seems 882 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:04,719 Speaker 1: like that is the turning point of this relationship, like 883 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,040 Speaker 1: where after just sniping at each other for so long, 884 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,240 Speaker 1: everyone all of a sudden is putting the guns down 885 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,960 Speaker 1: and deciding to be friends again twenty years. I mean, 886 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,319 Speaker 1: do you really think that it was just purely I'm 887 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,239 Speaker 1: tired of carrying this around anymore. I'm we're all about, 888 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,520 Speaker 1: you know, in our fifties now, like about to be 889 00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 1: I just I can't handle this anymore. Let's just let's 890 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:24,320 Speaker 1: just end it. Or do you think that there was 891 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,040 Speaker 1: some kind of like other more not to be cynical, 892 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:32,239 Speaker 1: but more business minded reason why things were untangled? You know, 893 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,880 Speaker 1: I mean it's impossible to say. I mean, I I 894 00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,040 Speaker 1: do think that there is something when you get older 895 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,640 Speaker 1: where if you're carrying around all this negative bag, it's 896 00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,399 Speaker 1: just not good for you. I mean, I think any 897 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,400 Speaker 1: psychologists would say that you know these things can only 898 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:48,160 Speaker 1: you know they can hurt your health. They can hurt 899 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,360 Speaker 1: your mental health. So there may have been an instinct 900 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,640 Speaker 1: there to just like like bygones, be bygons and move forward. 901 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,640 Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, all the parties involved must realize 902 00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,799 Speaker 1: that Nirvana to this day, I mean, they are this 903 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,719 Speaker 1: incredibly profitable brand, and for all of the weird things 904 00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:06,560 Speaker 1: that have happened with Nirvana over the years, you know, 905 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,280 Speaker 1: like not even the guitar hero thing could really detract 906 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,360 Speaker 1: from the credibility that Nirvana has. You know, they're like 907 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,120 Speaker 1: the rare, like nineties alt rock band that I feel 908 00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,880 Speaker 1: like younger generations embrace. Like each new generation of kids, 909 00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,640 Speaker 1: it seems like, gets into Nirvana. So yeah, maybe on 910 00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:23,759 Speaker 1: some level they all realize, like we're going to have 911 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:25,960 Speaker 1: to deal with each other for a long time, like 912 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:27,759 Speaker 1: let's make this good. Yeah, let's work together and make 913 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:29,719 Speaker 1: up a jillion dollars. You know, like what do we 914 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:31,960 Speaker 1: have to be upset about at this point. That's pretty 915 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:33,839 Speaker 1: much where it's at now. I mean, they're they're they're 916 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,200 Speaker 1: joint custodians of Kurt's legacy, and they're defending it from 917 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,760 Speaker 1: the likes of I guess like KFC and board Games 918 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,200 Speaker 1: another corporate interests, and I guess in Courtney and the 919 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:48,280 Speaker 1: surviving members of Nirvana fouled a joint lawsuit against Mark Jacobs. 920 00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,600 Speaker 1: So now there, as is so often the case in 921 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:55,560 Speaker 1: music industry, awards, ceremonies and lawsuits, made friends of foes. Yes, 922 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,799 Speaker 1: so heartwarming. We're gonna take a quick break and get 923 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,040 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor when we get to more rivals. 924 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:12,400 Speaker 1: All right, we've now reached the part of the episode 925 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,640 Speaker 1: where we give the pro side for each part of 926 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,800 Speaker 1: the rivalry. Let's talk about Dave Grol. First. Look, Dave Grohl. 927 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,320 Speaker 1: You can't dispute the success that he's had both in 928 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,239 Speaker 1: Nirvana and and Food Fighters. And I mean we take 929 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,040 Speaker 1: it for granted now that Food Fighters are just like 930 00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:29,480 Speaker 1: this stadium rock band, like the I think, the epitome 931 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:32,279 Speaker 1: of mainstream rock at this point. But you know, it 932 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:37,000 Speaker 1: seemed pretty unlikely Dave Role would have a thriving solo career. 933 00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:38,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like there were a lot of 934 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 1: doubters at that time that you know that the drummer 935 00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 1: of this band would end up being a huge rock star. 936 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,160 Speaker 1: And Grol has proven all the skeptics wrong. I mean, 937 00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,919 Speaker 1: he's had an incredible career. Like I said before, he 938 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,839 Speaker 1: is the mayor of rock music. You know, he does 939 00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:54,799 Speaker 1: have this status. You call him that the Tom Hanks 940 00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,880 Speaker 1: of rock music. He does have this status of everyone 941 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,440 Speaker 1: liking him, even though you might make jokes about always 942 00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:02,960 Speaker 1: seeing him on awards shows. It seems like whenever an 943 00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:07,319 Speaker 1: award show needs like a token rocker, they call up 944 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,640 Speaker 1: Dave Grohl, and Dave Roll shows up five minutes later 945 00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,839 Speaker 1: with a guitar. He's always down. He's always down. Uh, 946 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:14,560 Speaker 1: you know, we can make jokes about that, but you know, 947 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,480 Speaker 1: he is an ambassador for rock music and I appreciate 948 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,400 Speaker 1: that about him, And he does seem like a genuinely 949 00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:21,920 Speaker 1: good guy. And he's a member of two of the 950 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,279 Speaker 1: most successful rock bands of the last thirty years, So 951 00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:26,920 Speaker 1: to me, his legacy seems pretty air tight. Yeah, he 952 00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:28,440 Speaker 1: seems to be one of those, like one of the 953 00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:33,200 Speaker 1: few rock stars who seems to get genuinely touched by fans. 954 00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:35,879 Speaker 1: Like I feel like that just comes across in because 955 00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,600 Speaker 1: he's famous for for being, you know, nice guy, Dave Grohl, 956 00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 1: And uh, there is millions of examples of like a 957 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,000 Speaker 1: garage band and some small town some they broke some 958 00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,319 Speaker 1: noise ordinance and then Dave Grohl wrote a letter to 959 00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,319 Speaker 1: the local town council begging them to let these young 960 00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,640 Speaker 1: young musicians practice because this is their workspace, because you know, 961 00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,040 Speaker 1: young artists starting out. Every not everybody can afford a 962 00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,279 Speaker 1: soundproof studio. We need this for music. I mean just 963 00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,160 Speaker 1: things like that. And like when the there was a 964 00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,319 Speaker 1: mining disaster and I guess some of the miners that 965 00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,440 Speaker 1: were trapped down the mine wanted an iPod filled with 966 00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:08,520 Speaker 1: Food Fighters songs that kind of helped them through. And 967 00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:12,160 Speaker 1: Dave heard about this and invited them backstage to the 968 00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:14,840 Speaker 1: next Food Fighters show when they got out for multiple 969 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,560 Speaker 1: beers and became friendly with him, and then even immortalized 970 00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:19,840 Speaker 1: them in the track The Bottle of the Beaconsfield Miners. 971 00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,120 Speaker 1: I just, I don't know, I feel like the authenticity 972 00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,279 Speaker 1: to him is just off the charts. I feel like 973 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,480 Speaker 1: he gives this like sort of I would die for 974 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,960 Speaker 1: rock and roll feeling, which is you know, maybe you 975 00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:32,960 Speaker 1: could say it's Naiven kind of corny, but it just 976 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,440 Speaker 1: seems so so true and real. It's heartening. Yeah, I'm 977 00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:40,560 Speaker 1: totally I buy into the Dave Grohl like charisma, mr. 978 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,160 Speaker 1: Nice guy thing. I think he's the best. And you 979 00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,960 Speaker 1: know I've said this before, and I really mean it that. 980 00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,200 Speaker 1: You know, as much as I appreciate the albums that 981 00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:49,840 Speaker 1: he's made with Food Fighters, I do get said that 982 00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,359 Speaker 1: he's not playing drums in a rock band right now. 983 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,200 Speaker 1: I mean, like when he was with Queens of the 984 00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,640 Speaker 1: Stone Age, I thought that was incredible. Like I wish 985 00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:58,480 Speaker 1: he just would have stayed with there, or like make 986 00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,799 Speaker 1: another Them Good Vultures record. You know, you can just 987 00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,240 Speaker 1: wail on drums. I mean, he really is a monster 988 00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:06,800 Speaker 1: of the drums are just a monster musician in general. 989 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,400 Speaker 1: So that's David probably with the flip side of that too, 990 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,480 Speaker 1: and the fact that he plays everything, I mean every 991 00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,040 Speaker 1: every instrument on that first Food Fighters record, I think 992 00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,279 Speaker 1: that needs to be recognized to I mean that's insane. 993 00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:17,840 Speaker 1: I mean that's in a class with like, you know, 994 00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,680 Speaker 1: McCartney and you know, maybe not Prince level and Stevie 995 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,120 Speaker 1: wanted for virtuosity, but still that that level of talent 996 00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:25,880 Speaker 1: to be able to play everything like that is is nuts. 997 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,040 Speaker 1: I's want to shout that out too. So moving over 998 00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,279 Speaker 1: to the pro Courtney Love side, and you know, we 999 00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:32,680 Speaker 1: haven't explored this a lot in this episode, but like 1000 00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:36,120 Speaker 1: these two really are such great contrast. Even if you 1001 00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:39,680 Speaker 1: remove the Nirvana element, because I think Dave Role has 1002 00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:42,200 Speaker 1: an image that I think is like pretty carefully curated. 1003 00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:44,680 Speaker 1: You know, I do agree with you that I think 1004 00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:47,200 Speaker 1: he's authentically a nice guy and authentically loves rock and 1005 00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:50,000 Speaker 1: roll and all those things. But I think he does 1006 00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:52,160 Speaker 1: care about what people think about him, and he acts 1007 00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:55,000 Speaker 1: a certain way in public to you know, never show 1008 00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,840 Speaker 1: his dark side. Really, you know, he's pretty unflappable in 1009 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:00,160 Speaker 1: his image. And then you have Courtney Love, who is 1010 00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,479 Speaker 1: the opposite of that, and she lets it all hang out. 1011 00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:07,520 Speaker 1: She is proudly a mess. She proudly shows off her contradictions, 1012 00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,319 Speaker 1: and I love that about her. I really respect that, 1013 00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:13,439 Speaker 1: And to me, she's like a throwback to the old 1014 00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,480 Speaker 1: school type of rock star, the rock star that you 1015 00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,120 Speaker 1: really don't see all that much anymore because we live 1016 00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:21,400 Speaker 1: in a more sort of socially media sanctioned age, like 1017 00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,000 Speaker 1: where people are analyzing everything you do and you kind 1018 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,759 Speaker 1: of have to be more perfect, and Courtney Love is like, 1019 00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,800 Speaker 1: I am going to show you all my flaws, and 1020 00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,120 Speaker 1: as we've talked about in this episode, I think it's 1021 00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,200 Speaker 1: really hard to just put her in anyone's slot. I 1022 00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:37,480 Speaker 1: think it's definitely true that she was a victim of 1023 00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,800 Speaker 1: sexism in her career and also in her dealings with Nirvana. 1024 00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,600 Speaker 1: And I also think it's true that she was a 1025 00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,000 Speaker 1: very ambitious person who sees an opportunity to put herself 1026 00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:49,360 Speaker 1: in the spotlight, and she's done that throughout her career, 1027 00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:51,879 Speaker 1: and I don't criticize her for that. I actually think 1028 00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:56,440 Speaker 1: she's always been pretty canny and I always appreciate seeing 1029 00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,280 Speaker 1: her in the spotlight. I will read any Courtney Love interview, 1030 00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,320 Speaker 1: I will watch any televised appearance that she's on, because 1031 00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,439 Speaker 1: she is going to be interesting, even when she's infuriating, 1032 00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,560 Speaker 1: you know, she's never boring. So I really tip my captor. 1033 00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:11,200 Speaker 1: And also, I mean it must be said that she 1034 00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,360 Speaker 1: was Kurt Cobain's wife, and she's the mother of his child, 1035 00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:17,120 Speaker 1: and I think in the context of Nirvana, that does 1036 00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:20,319 Speaker 1: give her a considerable stature that should be respected. You know, 1037 00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:22,239 Speaker 1: even if she wasn't in the band. You know, as 1038 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:25,120 Speaker 1: far as we know, you know, Kurt Cobain would have 1039 00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:27,320 Speaker 1: wanted her to be in this position in his place. 1040 00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,799 Speaker 1: So I think if you respect Kurt Cobain, you have 1041 00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:33,360 Speaker 1: to also afford that respect to Corney Love. That's really 1042 00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:35,560 Speaker 1: well said. I mean, and I also feel like she's 1043 00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:37,080 Speaker 1: acted out in all the ways that a lot of 1044 00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:40,640 Speaker 1: her male music will counterparts are romanticized for. But instead 1045 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,680 Speaker 1: of that, she's been you know, miscast is a sort 1046 00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:46,080 Speaker 1: of caricature, which I think is a disservice to her music, 1047 00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,480 Speaker 1: which is, you know, incredibly strong. And she's such an 1048 00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:54,440 Speaker 1: inspiration to generations now of of women in music who 1049 00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,880 Speaker 1: were looking for, you know, a strong, decisive, confident woman 1050 00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:01,880 Speaker 1: who unapologetically challenges the notion of what femininity is in music. 1051 00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:04,919 Speaker 1: And I think that she's such an important figure for that. 1052 00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:07,839 Speaker 1: And you know, even her dark sides, you really got 1053 00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:09,799 Speaker 1: to wonder how much of sort of the chip on 1054 00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:11,719 Speaker 1: her shoulder was born from just all the ship that 1055 00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:15,200 Speaker 1: she got from Nirvana fans. I mean, she was not 1056 00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,560 Speaker 1: exactly embraced not only by the band but by fans 1057 00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:19,319 Speaker 1: with open arms. And you almost have to wonder how 1058 00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:22,640 Speaker 1: much she just self reflexively just put up this like 1059 00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,040 Speaker 1: rock hard front of just you know, fuck you to 1060 00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:28,640 Speaker 1: the world. Uh, as a result of that, because I'm 1061 00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,480 Speaker 1: sure all those things. There's the scene in the montage 1062 00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:34,560 Speaker 1: of Heck when uh, when she's reading an angry letter 1063 00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:38,359 Speaker 1: from a Nirvana fan after she was on the cover 1064 00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:41,800 Speaker 1: of some magazine with Kurt about how, oh yeah, that dirty, 1065 00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,520 Speaker 1: nasty Courtney woman running her big fat mouth makes me 1066 00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:46,680 Speaker 1: want to puke. I mean, just having to deal with 1067 00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,239 Speaker 1: that for years and years. You really gotta wonder how 1068 00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:51,480 Speaker 1: much of that factored into sort of the you know, 1069 00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:53,319 Speaker 1: all the acting out that she would do in later 1070 00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,920 Speaker 1: years too. So when we talk about these two together, 1071 00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:59,640 Speaker 1: I mean, look, they're stuck together. Okay, they are both 1072 00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:03,920 Speaker 1: uh you know, in charge of this again very successful brand, 1073 00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:08,040 Speaker 1: you know, that people still care about, and after fighting 1074 00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:11,160 Speaker 1: for so long, it seems like they finally just accepted 1075 00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,480 Speaker 1: that we're going to be together whether we like it 1076 00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:15,200 Speaker 1: or not, so we might as well figure out a 1077 00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:18,200 Speaker 1: way to get along. And uh, you know, it seems 1078 00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:20,640 Speaker 1: like they're friendly making it work. Yeah. I always kind 1079 00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:22,680 Speaker 1: of think of it as, uh, you know, like parents 1080 00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,200 Speaker 1: who went through really bad divorce but now are actually 1081 00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:29,080 Speaker 1: able to put on like a good face for the kids. Uh. 1082 00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,080 Speaker 1: In this case, ust the Neirvana fans are kids in 1083 00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:35,400 Speaker 1: this metaphor, I guess. But it's it's good that she 1084 00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,080 Speaker 1: made a joke on on some interview where she was saying, like, 1085 00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:39,640 Speaker 1: all right, maybe me and Dave will do a do 1086 00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:41,719 Speaker 1: it on Islands in the Stream or something like that. 1087 00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:43,319 Speaker 1: Like I don't think there's ever gonna be any kind 1088 00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:44,960 Speaker 1: of musical union, but the fact that they can at 1089 00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,239 Speaker 1: least be in a room together and not uh not 1090 00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:50,640 Speaker 1: flip the table, I think is I'm thankful for that. Well, 1091 00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:53,600 Speaker 1: Jordan's I'm always thankful that we can talk about Rivals 1092 00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:55,239 Speaker 1: on this show. We can both come as we are 1093 00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,920 Speaker 1: if we will, as Rivals fans and and talk about 1094 00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,360 Speaker 1: all these beefs and the delvi into it for people's enjoyment. 1095 00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:04,360 Speaker 1: Each week. These puns are getting better and better. At 1096 00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:07,160 Speaker 1: the end of every episode, I gotta I feel like 1097 00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:09,560 Speaker 1: I was stretching on this pond. But that's okay because 1098 00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:11,720 Speaker 1: we've reached the end of the episode. Leave us a review, 1099 00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:13,400 Speaker 1: let us know if you like the ponds or not. 1100 00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,360 Speaker 1: If actually, if you don't like the ponds, we're probably 1101 00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,080 Speaker 1: going to continue to do them anyway, So just the 1102 00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:21,080 Speaker 1: warning there, but thank you again for joining us on 1103 00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:23,200 Speaker 1: this episode of Rivals. Will be back with more beefs 1104 00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:31,880 Speaker 1: and feuds and long swimming resentments next week. Rivals is 1105 00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,319 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. The executive producers are 1106 00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:37,160 Speaker 1: Shawn ty Toone and Noel Brown. The supervising producers are 1107 00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:40,240 Speaker 1: Taylor chi Con and Tristan McNeil. The producer is Joel 1108 00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:43,239 Speaker 1: hat Stat. I'm Jordan run Talk. I'm Stephen Hyden. If 1109 00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:45,040 Speaker 1: you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave us 1110 00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:47,919 Speaker 1: a review. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit 1111 00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,799 Speaker 1: the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 1112 00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:52,000 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.