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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stop Mom? Never told you?

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Speaker 1: From house Stop works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. This is Molly and I'm Kristen. And Kristen.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's kind of a bummer. We've started lots

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Speaker 1: of podcasts this way, but their session it's affecting everyone.

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Speaker 1: You know, you see all sorts of stories about it.

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Speaker 1: But I've been interested in this crop of stories popping

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Speaker 1: up about not how their session affects the workplace, but

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Speaker 1: how it reflects in the home, not just tighter spending,

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Speaker 1: not just cutting back at restaurants and grocery stores, but

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Speaker 1: actually the dynamics in the home, right Molly, I think

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Speaker 1: what you're referring to is is this kind of rash

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Speaker 1: of trend pieces about at home dads who were forced

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Speaker 1: out of their job because they re session and now

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Speaker 1: they are staying at home while the wife is out

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Speaker 1: working and is the new breadwinner. Um And I think

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Speaker 1: the most telling statistics to talk about is the fact

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Speaker 1: that of job losses from the recession have befallen men.

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Speaker 1: And that's according to the Bureau of labor statistics, and

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Speaker 1: to some extent, this is because men are in industries

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Speaker 1: that haven't really stood up on their session manufacturing, construction jobs,

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Speaker 1: whereas women are in uh, slightly more recession proof jobs

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Speaker 1: that involve education, healthcare, things that we can't really afford

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Speaker 1: to have cutbacks on. Right. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: you know, we still have the same kind of issues

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Speaker 1: with with female employment where uh we're working fewer overall

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Speaker 1: hours and more likely to have part time jobs without

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Speaker 1: health insurance or unemployment insurance, which is probably one of

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Speaker 1: the reasons another reason why they're more recession proof. Right.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of people are you know, looking at

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Speaker 1: these statistics and being like, oh, this is such, you know,

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Speaker 1: great news for women because they're finally closing the gender

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Speaker 1: gap in the workplace. There. You know, it's fifty split

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Speaker 1: in terms of men and women in the workplace. But

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Speaker 1: that's not really the whole story. It's you know, it's

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Speaker 1: a sad story for men. But there was sort of

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Speaker 1: hope that if you could find a silver lining in this,

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Speaker 1: maybe it was that men were staying home with the

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Speaker 1: kids more and it would help out sort of with

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Speaker 1: the genderal dynamic exactly. Um, because a lot of these

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Speaker 1: trend stories that we're talking about have have looked not

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Speaker 1: only at the number of men who are getting laid

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Speaker 1: off and are ending up at home, but actually how

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Speaker 1: they're spending their time at home. And I think that

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Speaker 1: if you look at that, just seuse anecdotal cases, um,

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Speaker 1: it says a lot about whether or not this is

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Speaker 1: gonna be a permanent shift towards more men taking um

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Speaker 1: more responsibility at home. Yeah, it's actually kind of troubling, Kristen.

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Speaker 1: You know, women might be the sole breadwinner, but they're

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Speaker 1: still remaining responsible for all the domestic responsibilities. For example,

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Speaker 1: here's a stat we got from the New York Times. Um,

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Speaker 1: when women are unemployed and looking for a job, they

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Speaker 1: still have to do all the work at home. They're

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Speaker 1: taking care of the children, housework, Their work at home

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Speaker 1: basically doubles, So it's not like they're unemployed per se.

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Speaker 1: But when a man is unemployed at home, his childcare

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Speaker 1: duties are virtually the same as when he was working

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Speaker 1: forty to sixty hours a week, And instead of spending

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Speaker 1: more time you know, with the kids are cleaning, they're

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Speaker 1: spending their time sleeping, watching TV. Looking for a job right,

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Speaker 1: they're more they're more apt to consider that process of

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Speaker 1: finding a job, hunting something down as their new full

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Speaker 1: time job at home, and might be um a little

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Speaker 1: less prone to taking out the trash more or cleaning

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Speaker 1: or whatever it is. And I thought one of the

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Speaker 1: most interesting parts about all this was reading the comments

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Speaker 1: that were attached to this New York Times article, because

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Speaker 1: it seemed like overwhelmingly like, uh, you know, there are

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Speaker 1: some women who were sticking up for their husbands and saying,

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Speaker 1: he's been great since he's been at home, I've been

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Speaker 1: a lot more stressed out, and he's really you know,

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Speaker 1: taking up more of the household duties. But by and large,

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Speaker 1: it was a lot of people complaining, like women complaining

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Speaker 1: that their men weren't doing enough at home and men

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Speaker 1: complaining that their wives were on their backs about finding jobs.

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Speaker 1: So of course they're not going to be you know, vacuuming.

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Speaker 1: They're gonna be online posting their resume and looking for

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Speaker 1: job openings. And overall, most people were saying that they

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Speaker 1: have not reduced the amount of out of home childcare

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Speaker 1: that they paid for, which I thought was pretty telling.

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Speaker 1: So even though we have all these articles about how

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Speaker 1: the number of stay at home dad's h skyrocketing. We're

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Speaker 1: really not seeing that at home it's making that big

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Speaker 1: of a difference. Right, There's still a pretty pretty large

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Speaker 1: complain about um from women saying that, you know, we're

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Speaker 1: still having that quote unquote second shift of after work.

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Speaker 1: We we have to come home and take care of

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Speaker 1: the household duties. But by the same token, um, some

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Speaker 1: of these articles are also reporting that maybe women just

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Speaker 1: aren't giving men enough leeway to take more control. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The more I read these articles about stay at home

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Speaker 1: dads in this new trend, the more it seemed like women,

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Speaker 1: even though they're in the workplace more, are very hesitant

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Speaker 1: to give up this role of being sort of the

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Speaker 1: maternal primary caregiver. Uh. There was a Forbes article that

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Speaker 1: had an anecdote about a man who took his child

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Speaker 1: to the doctor, Um, you know, got a diagnosis, got

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Speaker 1: a prescription, took the child home, and he just felt

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Speaker 1: great because he'd been there for his kid. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: he'd really been able to figure out what was wrong

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Speaker 1: and care from And when the mom got home, she's

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Speaker 1: kind of you know, u's lack of a better term,

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Speaker 1: she kind of flipped out took the kid to a

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Speaker 1: different doctor, I got a different diagnosis, got a different prescription,

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Speaker 1: and sort of, you know, the anecdote kind of implied

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Speaker 1: that she was uncomfortable letting go that control of her child.

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Speaker 1: It definitely seems like we're having a new challenge to

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Speaker 1: these stereotypical gender roles, like women might be out in

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Speaker 1: the workplace. According to that same Forbes article, um it

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Speaker 1: said that women are now the primary breadwinners in nearly

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Speaker 1: a third of double income homes in the United States,

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Speaker 1: but there's still a lot of stigma surrounding um women

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Speaker 1: out in the workplace, uh, bringing home the bacon and

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Speaker 1: the men at home cooking it. Yeah, and even with

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Speaker 1: um you know, like let's say the stay at home

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Speaker 1: dad takes his kid to carpool lane. He's not amilia

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Speaker 1: being accepted by all the other moms who are in

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Speaker 1: the same position. He's being viewed with suspicion. A lot

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Speaker 1: of these art close talk about men who aren't invited

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Speaker 1: to play groups. Say, you know, when they're just picking

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Speaker 1: out clothes for their kids at stores, they get looks like,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, it's a child predator. Like women are

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Speaker 1: not willing to sort of accept that men can be

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Speaker 1: in this role. Um. And a lot of this discussion

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Speaker 1: has has focused on like the dual parent households. But

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Speaker 1: there is an interesting stat also from the Bureau Labor

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Speaker 1: Statistics that said that at least two million dads in

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Speaker 1: the US take primary responsibility for taking care of that

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Speaker 1: their children. And that takes into account a lot of

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Speaker 1: single dads who are fighting for more paternity rights in

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Speaker 1: divorce cases, who are shouldering not only the role of

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Speaker 1: being the breadwinner, but also being the primary caregiver as well.

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Speaker 1: So I think that indicates that if you do it

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Speaker 1: a certain way, it can be done correctly. An article

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Speaker 1: in the Monitor on Psychology from the American Psychological Association

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Speaker 1: agrees with that fact, Molly Um. According to the Monitor

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Speaker 1: on Psychology from the American Psychological Associate Asian Um, in fact,

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Speaker 1: some stay at home fathers can actually make for a

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Speaker 1: better marital relationship aside from the stigmas that they have

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Speaker 1: to face. Um. These studies that they have done said

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Speaker 1: that the relationships between husbands and wives are actually benefiting

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Speaker 1: from uh from these well planned at home dad's. Now,

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Speaker 1: maybe those are stats from males who chose to stay

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Speaker 1: at home as opposed to males who have been forced

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Speaker 1: home by this recession, which is how we sort of

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Speaker 1: started this topic. But whether it's by choice, whether it's

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Speaker 1: not by choice, it seems that the tip to success,

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Speaker 1: based on these articles we've read, and you know, Christ

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Speaker 1: and I spent some time prusing a few daddy blogs,

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Speaker 1: there's a ever increasing community of stay at home dad

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Speaker 1: online networks. But the key to this into marital happy

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Speaker 1: really seems to be that you do not adopt the

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Speaker 1: philosophy that a stay at home dad is Mr Mom. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That was something that that popped up in a few

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Speaker 1: articles said just don't call him Mr Mom. And it

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Speaker 1: was kind of that thing that we were talking about before,

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Speaker 1: where this is challenging stereotypical gender roles a little bit.

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Speaker 1: And uh, men who are staying at home, especially by choice,

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Speaker 1: don't just want to be considered like male nanny's right, you.

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Speaker 1: They want to maintain sort of that you know, stereotypical

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Speaker 1: masculine attribute. They're more likely to probably parent their children differently.

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Speaker 1: And I want to be seen as like a dad

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Speaker 1: at home as opposed to a Mr Mom. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: there was an interesting point raised in UH an article

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Speaker 1: in the Boston Globe, and it's said that what children

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Speaker 1: need are adequate financial and emotional resources in short, stable

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Speaker 1: environments that is not contingent on gender or biology. And

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Speaker 1: I think that that's that's a pretty important part of

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Speaker 1: this whole whole debate. Right, we don't necessarily need a

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Speaker 1: mom at home, We just need a good parent at home.

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Speaker 1: So to answer a question, m hm. So to answer

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Speaker 1: our question, Kristen, I don't really know that the recession

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Speaker 1: is going to change gender roles long term domestic dynamics

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Speaker 1: long term, because it seems like you're still going to

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Speaker 1: come home from work and been into a certain box. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And and it's that whole issue of men who are

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Speaker 1: being forced out of their job. They weren't electing to

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Speaker 1: quit their job, as you know, a high ranking executive

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Speaker 1: and come home and be being at home father. They

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Speaker 1: were they lost her job because of the recession. And

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Speaker 1: chances are if when the economy rebounds, those men are

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Speaker 1: going to find jobs again and they're going to to

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Speaker 1: leave the home. But I think that what we can

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Speaker 1: hope comes out of this is just sort of a

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Speaker 1: greater awareness of the domestic experient in general. You know,

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Speaker 1: I was reading an article about how you know, without work,

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Speaker 1: these men were sort of you know, becoming more involved

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Speaker 1: in schools and running for school board, and the administration

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Speaker 1: was expressing hope that you know, once these men went

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Speaker 1: back to the workplace, they still kept, you know, the

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Speaker 1: issues of schools in their mind. And there might actually

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Speaker 1: be something called the daddy tracks similar to the mommy track,

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Speaker 1: except you know, it's affecting obviously, like more men who

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Speaker 1: are choosing, like you said, if the if their wife

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Speaker 1: is making a significantly greater amount of money, these men

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Speaker 1: might choose to um, to stay home. And uh, it's

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Speaker 1: kind of similar. Penalties are are coming up for men

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Speaker 1: who are choosing to do that and then go back

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Speaker 1: into the workforce after their kids are school aged. Um

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Speaker 1: that women have had to face for so many years now, right,

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Speaker 1: So maybe if you have someone who was forced out

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Speaker 1: due to a recession, he comes back, he's a little

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Speaker 1: more accepting. If a guy comes to him and I

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Speaker 1: was like, hey, you know, I want to I want

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Speaker 1: flex time to stay at home with my kids. Um.

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Speaker 1: And and overall, I think that we can say that,

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Speaker 1: you know, there has been a trend outside of the recession.

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Speaker 1: There has been a growing number about home dads UM

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Speaker 1: and that Monitor on Psychology article, it's said that the

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Speaker 1: numbers about home dads have grown more than six since

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Speaker 1: two thousand four, So it can't just be linked to

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Speaker 1: the recession. Obviously there are a lot more men at

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Speaker 1: home because the recession, but this has been a building

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Speaker 1: trend for a while, right, So just just to cover

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Speaker 1: our backs, we do want to know note that the

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Speaker 1: thing to keep in mind about trends as they do

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Speaker 1: not tell every individual story. You know, we may have

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Speaker 1: some stay at home dad's out there who have heard

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Speaker 1: view at all that maybe they do, you know, participate

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Speaker 1: in the housework. So we're just throwing that out there.

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Speaker 1: So we don't have lots of angry emails, but we

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