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Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we're discussing why everything costs more than you think. Joel,

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Speaker 1: you and I are best friends, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: our new listeners may have heard that, but they don't

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Speaker 1: know how we got to be friends. How deep this

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Speaker 1: friendship runs? Do you do you remember when we first met? Honestly, dude,

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Speaker 1: I don't. It was it made that much of an

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Speaker 1: impression on you. If you remember our origin story, please

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Speaker 1: so honestly share. Yeah, honestly, I don't remember when we

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Speaker 1: actually met. The first memory, though, that I do have

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Speaker 1: is some friends of ours, mutual friends, had invited Kate

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Speaker 1: and I over to play some board games, and you

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Speaker 1: and Emily were also there, and I think we may

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Speaker 1: have been playing some original uh Settlers of Caitan. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's like that. That's not about right, It's like the

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Speaker 1: gateway drug for nerdy board games. Yeah, so I think

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Speaker 1: this is about eight years ago, and yeah, that's when

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Speaker 1: we that's when we first started hanging out. I don't

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Speaker 1: have anything specific about that night. I'm sure I whipped

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Speaker 1: your tail some Settlers, but unlikely. That is funny that

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Speaker 1: it started out with us playing board games because we're

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Speaker 1: both super into nerdy board games. We did a whole

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Speaker 1: episode on it back in the day, and we made

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Speaker 1: recommendations kind of for some of our favorites. But yeah, dude,

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Speaker 1: I think it's not a knock on you because obviously

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Speaker 1: we're best friends. But I barely remember, like the birth

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Speaker 1: of my first daughter. Now, I just feel like so

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Speaker 1: many five years have passed and that part of my

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Speaker 1: memory is just almost gone. I feel like the most

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Speaker 1: cemented memories I have of our friendship going back were

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Speaker 1: two times that we traveled together as couples. And the

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Speaker 1: first one was we left on Halloween like six years

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Speaker 1: ago and we went to Ireland together as a family,

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Speaker 1: and I think we mentioned that on the podcast at

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Speaker 1: one at one point. And then a trip that we

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Speaker 1: had to the Keys, which we kind of piggybacked on

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Speaker 1: you having a photo shoot a thing that you had

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Speaker 1: to shoot down there, and we kind of stayed together.

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Speaker 1: And that trip to the Keys, when we had our

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Speaker 1: our oldest daughters were only just a few months old.

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Speaker 1: I just distinctly remember that trip to Those are kind

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Speaker 1: of the memories that really are cemented from our early

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Speaker 1: friendship days. So basically you'll remember things where there's pictures

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Speaker 1: associated with it that you can go back and see

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Speaker 1: pretty much. Yeah, so it's interesting you mentioned that that

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Speaker 1: sort of Keys Florida Keys work photography trip because I remember,

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Speaker 1: actually before even Ireland, was one time when Kate and

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Speaker 1: I did some photography work for a restaurant and one

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Speaker 1: of the things that we negotiated with them was that

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Speaker 1: we got a sweet Fats get certificate. H that's right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that they paid us in food and this place is

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Speaker 1: really good. This is a really great restaurant here in Atlanta.

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Speaker 1: And that was super early on in our friendship, very

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Speaker 1: very early on. Yeah, you invited us to this fancy dinner.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I don't know him like that,

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Speaker 1: but well, the reason being because so, yeah, we got

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Speaker 1: this huge gift certificate and Kate and I looked at

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Speaker 1: each other and we thought, we can't this is a

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Speaker 1: lot of money and to be more fun if we

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Speaker 1: went with some friends. So we thought of you guys.

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Speaker 1: And what I really remember though, is that we hadn't

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Speaker 1: gone to a lot of nice restaurants at that point

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Speaker 1: in our lives. We totally novices nice restaurants, and I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty sure you had on a T shirt, but we

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Speaker 1: walked in and probably a band T shirt or something.

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Speaker 1: We were I think we were all a little under

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Speaker 1: underdressed backwards hat, yes, but we yeah, enjoyed a really

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Speaker 1: nice dinner. I do remember that. I remember getting some

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Speaker 1: awesome steak and maybe that was really what cemented it

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Speaker 1: for us, right, Yeah, bonding over meat? Yeah, why not?

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Speaker 1: I started all you vegetarians out there, But yeah, so

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Speaker 1: traveling together as friends and and a great meal sometimes

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Speaker 1: and and then nerdy board games. Man, I feel like

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Speaker 1: that kind of encompasses some of the things that we

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Speaker 1: enjoy the most and uh and still enjoy kind of

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Speaker 1: doing together when whenever we can, let's do it some more.

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Speaker 1: So that's uh for all you new listeners, that's kind

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Speaker 1: of how Matt and I became best friends. And then,

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Speaker 1: like you'll find out as you continue listening to this show,

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Speaker 1: we talked about the things on this show that we

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Speaker 1: care about that we already enjoy way discussing and and

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Speaker 1: we started this podcast because we love craft beer and

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Speaker 1: we love talking about money things that matter to us.

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Speaker 1: And so yeah, this podcast is really just kind of

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Speaker 1: an excuse for Matt and I to do what we

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Speaker 1: would be doing anyway, and we're having a blast doing it,

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Speaker 1: like drinking beer and talking about it too, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and today we are drinking a beer called Pretty Willie's

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Speaker 1: Imperial Stout by Against the Grain Brewery. This is a

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Speaker 1: beer that my real estate agent gave to me over

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Speaker 1: a year ago when I closed on a house. And this,

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Speaker 1: in particular is a beer that you're supposed to let

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Speaker 1: rest and evolve, and so we're gonna kind of see

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Speaker 1: how it's drinking. We'll do. Thanks so much for sharing

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Speaker 1: this one with me. Cheers, Bunny, cheers. All Right, Matt,

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Speaker 1: give me one word that describes how you feel about

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Speaker 1: this beer after just one zip, only one word. I

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Speaker 1: feel like this is gonna be harder for you than

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Speaker 1: me because I'm ver both. Yeah, Joel tends to be

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Speaker 1: the one that talks a little bit more on the show,

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Speaker 1: which is totally fine. If I had my own podcast

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Speaker 1: by myself, it might only be five minut it. But

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Speaker 1: if it was just you talking, who knows how long

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Speaker 1: you'd go. That's true, Okay, but back to you, so

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Speaker 1: one word. Okay, this is gonna be weird, but I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna say jacket, all right, that's weird. But I think

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Speaker 1: we've already mentioned, Jacket. I think we mentioned on the

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Speaker 1: show before that you have some odd taste buds and

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Speaker 1: some odd sensory abilities. You're like the beer somalier or

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Speaker 1: this podcast. You bring that to the table. I have

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Speaker 1: a much less developed palette. So my word, my one

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Speaker 1: word for this beer for right now is going to

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Speaker 1: be roasty. Nice. See roasty. That's I think everyone's gonna

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Speaker 1: understand that, Jacket. I think what happens is I overthink

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Speaker 1: stuff and now I'm just gonna have to actually explain myself.

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Speaker 1: But we'll say that for the end of the show.

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Speaker 1: Oh and by the way, Matt, since we're drinking a

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Speaker 1: big barrel aged Imperial stout and this is one that

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Speaker 1: it's meant to be kind of aged for a while

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Speaker 1: in the cellar and then you're supposed to drink it. Uh.

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Speaker 1: There was an article I read about barrel aged doubts

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Speaker 1: and kind of the cult behind barrel aged outs. Right now,

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Speaker 1: I find it fascinating that they've kind of become, um,

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Speaker 1: this thing that people hunt for and spend lots of

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Speaker 1: money on stouts like these. One of the things I

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Speaker 1: thought that was cool about that article. They were talking

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Speaker 1: about the costs associated with some of these beers where

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Speaker 1: they are aged and they take special bourbon barrels, uh,

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Speaker 1: and they actually take more material, like more ingredients to

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Speaker 1: actually make the beer, and more warehouse space oftentimes because

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Speaker 1: you're talking barrels. They mentioned in particular the Bourbon County

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Speaker 1: series by Goose Island. They have multiple people working year

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Speaker 1: round just to develop they can just maintaining that batch

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Speaker 1: just to develop those Bourbon County beers, and it's really

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Speaker 1: expensive to create, which leads to part of the reason

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Speaker 1: these beers can cost so much. Yeah, and not just

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Speaker 1: double the cost, but sometimes like quadruple the cost of

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Speaker 1: a typical beer like this that you can pick up

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Speaker 1: at your local grocery store. You get the special bourbon

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Speaker 1: barrel aged version of it or any kind of barrel

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Speaker 1: age typically and it's going to be a lot more

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Speaker 1: because yeah, like you said, it's gonna take a lot

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Speaker 1: more time, so a lot more manpower, but then also

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Speaker 1: to the ingredients that go into it and be twice

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Speaker 1: as much from a quantity standpoint. Yeah. So if you're

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Speaker 1: at your local grocery store or bottle shop and you

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Speaker 1: see a barrel aged down on the shelf and you

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Speaker 1: look at the price tag and you think it's ridiculous. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot that goes into that, and not all

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Speaker 1: of them are created equal. Some of them are better

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Speaker 1: than others. And we would recommend kind of researching these

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Speaker 1: beers before you spend twenty bucks on a bottle or

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Speaker 1: fifteen bucks even on a bottle. And Untapped is a

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Speaker 1: great resource to kind of look up what beer lovers

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Speaker 1: think about the beer. But there is a reason behind

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Speaker 1: the price tag, and so we want to go to

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Speaker 1: kind of share that. And and Matt and I've talked

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Speaker 1: about why we drink craft beer on the show every week.

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Speaker 1: It's important to us. It's something that we care about.

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Speaker 1: And we also want to encourage people to live a

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Speaker 1: life that reflects their values, and this is something that

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Speaker 1: we value. This is something that we place a high

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Speaker 1: priority on good beer, and we're willing to spend the

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Speaker 1: money for really good beer um and cut back in

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Speaker 1: other areas right in order to make that happen. Yeah, man,

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Speaker 1: that's right. Oh, before we move on, one other thing

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Speaker 1: I just thought of. We recently did an episode on

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Speaker 1: hedonic adaptation, right where you kind of get used to something,

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Speaker 1: whether it be because it's really good and you kind

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Speaker 1: of get used to that really good feeling and it

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Speaker 1: kind of becomes your new normal, or how you can

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Speaker 1: also get used to something that's kind of bad or

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Speaker 1: negative and you kind of get used to that that

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Speaker 1: becomes your new normal. Kate and I we've been out

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Speaker 1: of our kitchen right because we've been renovating our house.

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Speaker 1: We've been out of our kitchen for almost two months now,

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Speaker 1: and honestly, I don't feel like much has changed for us,

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Speaker 1: Like we've kind of gotten used to the fact that

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Speaker 1: all of our stuff is crammed into our dining room.

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Speaker 1: But I don't know, it just it just kind of

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Speaker 1: struck me as interesting because I haven't been focusing on

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Speaker 1: how terrible it's been. You just kind of roll with

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Speaker 1: it and move on with life and it becomes your

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Speaker 1: new normal. I'm surely the first two to three days

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Speaker 1: we're kind of shocking a little more painful, But what

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Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to is looking ahead and knowing that

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Speaker 1: eventually we'll be able to move back into our normal,

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Speaker 1: full space in our house, and certainly that's gonna be great.

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Speaker 1: But I'm kind of worried too because on the other

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Speaker 1: end of that, I think, well, it's gonna be really nice,

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Speaker 1: But how quickly is it going to be before I

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Speaker 1: get used to it? You know? Like it it took

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Speaker 1: me zero time almost to get used to this sort

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Speaker 1: of negative aspect of our lives, like being crammed into

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Speaker 1: this less than ideal dining room. And then it's not

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Speaker 1: gonna take you too much time to become used to

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Speaker 1: be in a fancy pants exactly. Yeah, And man, I

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Speaker 1: just don't want to become super fancy pants. That's not

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Speaker 1: who I want to be. So we will get to

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Speaker 1: why Matt's on one word for this beer was jacket. Uh,

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Speaker 1: leg get later on, but first let's get to the

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Speaker 1: topic of hand. Everything costs more than you think, and

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Speaker 1: what Matt and I wanted to talk about on the

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Speaker 1: show today is considering secondary costs. Anytime you make a purchase,

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Speaker 1: the price tag that you're paying up front on whatever

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Speaker 1: it is is not the only cost involved in making

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Speaker 1: a purchase, and we wanted to talk about the other

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Speaker 1: costs involved. Uh we're calling secondary costs, and those are

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Speaker 1: additional costs that you will or might end up paying

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Speaker 1: on a purchase that fall outside of that original purchase amount,

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Speaker 1: and we think it's really really important to consider those

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Speaker 1: things because it can be easy when you're budgeting or

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Speaker 1: when you're considering making a purchase or adding something into

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Speaker 1: your life to only consider that upfront price tag and

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Speaker 1: not think about all those other dominoes that fall when

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Speaker 1: it comes to the pricture of paying. And so, Matt,

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Speaker 1: this podcast is going to be dedicated to those other

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Speaker 1: dominoes that fall how that impacts like your wallet in

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Speaker 1: your life, that's right. Yeah, Folks tend to not consider

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Speaker 1: the sort of nickel and diming effect that happens after

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Speaker 1: you make a purchase. Whether it's a quality purchase or

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Speaker 1: a cheap purchase, it doesn't really matter. What we're talking about,

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Speaker 1: like those expenses that, like you said, you may or

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Speaker 1: may not pay, and let's start with the ones that

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Speaker 1: you will pay. Yeah, So we kind of divided this

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Speaker 1: up into two different kinds of secondary costs. One is

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Speaker 1: a hard secondary cost and the other is a soft

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Speaker 1: or lifestyle secondary cost. And so we'll kind of just

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Speaker 1: quickly run through the definition and describe what's different about each.

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Speaker 1: That's right, man. So hard secondary costs are what we're

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Speaker 1: considering to be costs that you have to pay because

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Speaker 1: it's either the law, right, so sales tax, like you

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Speaker 1: have to pay sales tax. Or these might be costs

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Speaker 1: that you have to pay because you signed an agreement

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Speaker 1: where you promise that you will And these can be

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Speaker 1: monthly fees or an h O a say in a

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Speaker 1: condo that you live in, or these are costs because

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Speaker 1: the item that you've purchased just requires it, you know,

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Speaker 1: this sort of basic maintenance. And I'm not talking about fancy,

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Speaker 1: high end maintenance or anything that kind of goes above

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Speaker 1: and beyond maintaining that item and allowing it to you know,

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Speaker 1: work and function like you wanted to. In these cases though,

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Speaker 1: you don't have a choice. And these are things that

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Speaker 1: you will have to pay. Yeah. So those hard costs, right,

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Speaker 1: they are there for a lot of purchases, and we'll

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Speaker 1: kind of go into some examples later on in the

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Speaker 1: show too, but there there no matter what, and there's

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Speaker 1: no getting around them. And they're also kind of easily

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Speaker 1: identifiable upfront, Right, you can do the research, you can

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Speaker 1: know the figures, and you can kind of know what

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Speaker 1: you're getting into when it comes to some of those

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Speaker 1: hard costs. But on the other hand, these soft secondary

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Speaker 1: costs that we're gonna talk about, Matt their costs where

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Speaker 1: you're likely going to feel pressured to pay because they

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Speaker 1: fit and complement that primary purchase. So these are ones

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Speaker 1: that you might not see you can't necessarily quantify upfront

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Speaker 1: unless you're really really thoughtful. And an example of that

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Speaker 1: would be if you get a new laptop, Oh, well,

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Speaker 1: guess what, I need a new backpack to carry that

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Speaker 1: laptop around in. And then you are like, well, you

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Speaker 1: know what, I'm one of this cool backpack. I need

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Speaker 1: a jacket to match or whatever it is, right, And

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Speaker 1: it's like that if you give the mouse a cookie syndrome,

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Speaker 1: where those are kind of what these soft secondary costs are.

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Speaker 1: Those are we're calling them. And so if it's a

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Speaker 1: purchase that you make that then forces you to feel

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Speaker 1: like you need to upgrade something else in your life,

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Speaker 1: and that's one of those soft secondary costs. It's a

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Speaker 1: little harder to quantify up front, but we're gonna kind

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Speaker 1: of go through some ways to help you figure out

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Speaker 1: what those could be and how to decrease or maybe

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Speaker 1: eliminate them even in your life. That's right, man, it's crazy, right,

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Speaker 1: it's a little bit like lifestyle creep. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: funny hearing you talk about an example with like the

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Speaker 1: laptop with the bag and then the jacket, But it's

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Speaker 1: almost like anytime something touches something else, it's like it

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Speaker 1: getting gets infected with looking old, right, because you have

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Speaker 1: something like new and shiny, and then in relation to

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Speaker 1: the old stuff, you think it really would be nice

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Speaker 1: if that was kind of upgraded as well, And then

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Speaker 1: before you know it, where do you stop? Like, when

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Speaker 1: do you stop? Where do you draw the line? And

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Speaker 1: I think what's important to keep in mind, though, is

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Speaker 1: that you can draw that line. You can decide that

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Speaker 1: these are expense is that I'm not going to participate in,

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Speaker 1: and that you have control over. And that's the biggest

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Speaker 1: difference between a hard secondary cost versus the soft or

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Speaker 1: lifestyle secondary cost is that the soft secondary lifestyle costs

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Speaker 1: you just have control over, You have options. But either way,

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Speaker 1: it's yeah, like you said, it's good to be aware

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Speaker 1: of those and to know what steps you can take

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Speaker 1: to keep the expenses down. Yeah, And I think all

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Speaker 1: of us have experienced both ends of these, right, We've

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Speaker 1: experienced buying something and we didn't realize or we didn't

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Speaker 1: factor in those hard secondary costs. We made the purchase

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Speaker 1: or we made the leap into something, and we didn't

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Speaker 1: even take into consideration those costs that were inevitable, and

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Speaker 1: we bore the bront of them after we made the decision.

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Speaker 1: And maybe for some of us we had to put

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Speaker 1: that on a credit card or yeah, like you with gasoline,

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh man, this car takes gas. Totally forgot

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Speaker 1: except I drive an electric car, So jokes on you.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, there's all we've all been in that situation.

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Speaker 1: And also in regards to the soft or lifestyle secondary costs,

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Speaker 1: someone who is considering, let's say a bathroom renovation, well,

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Speaker 1: I want to reach out the floors and put in

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Speaker 1: a new toilet. Well, then you want a new tub

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Speaker 1: because a tub looks old and nasty exactly, and then

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Speaker 1: maybe a new vanity, and you know what, if the

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Speaker 1: bathroom is gonna look this good, I think I needed

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Speaker 1: to redo the kitchen at the same time. And so

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Speaker 1: we've all experienced this in our lives to one extent

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Speaker 1: or another, and it's just good to be aware of

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Speaker 1: as we go into making purchases. It can help us

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Speaker 1: to know when to say no. To things, and when

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Speaker 1: things are out of our budget, out of our range,

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Speaker 1: it gives us a better perspective and allows us to

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Speaker 1: go into purchases with a little more like wisdom and

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Speaker 1: knowledge behind us. And so we've been talking a lot

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Speaker 1: lately about spending and consumption. And you know, a huge

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Speaker 1: reason that Americans today are having issues with saving enough

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Speaker 1: a retirement comes down to their spending. It's not that

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Speaker 1: they're not making enough. More of it has to do

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Speaker 1: with the fact that folks aren't investing and using that

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Speaker 1: money that they've earned wisely, and that has led to

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Speaker 1: a lot of people feeling insecure about their futures. And

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Speaker 1: so right after the break, we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: why these secondary costs are so important, and then we'll

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Speaker 1: also give some exam amples, some specific real life examples

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Speaker 1: that will help you to see the difference between these

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Speaker 1: two types of secondary spendings and just how being aware

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Speaker 1: of these things can help you rain in your spending.

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Speaker 1: All right, Matt, back from the break, and let's talk

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Speaker 1: about why the secondary costs are so important, and it's

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Speaker 1: because there's this major problem in America. Four out of

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Speaker 1: five Americans are worried that they don't have enough in retirement, right,

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Speaker 1: they are spending too much. And I gotta tell you,

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Speaker 1: as we've been combing through this topic doing research for

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Speaker 1: the show, Matt, I gotta believe that much of this

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Speaker 1: is because of poorly thought out purchases, right, And those

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Speaker 1: poorly thought out purchases lead to these outrageous secondary costs

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Speaker 1: hard ones or lifestyle ones, either way, but they lead

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Speaker 1: to those secondary costs for people that weren't factored in,

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Speaker 1: and it leads to living a lifestyle where you're living

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Speaker 1: month to month, paycheck to paycheck, and you can't get ahead.

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Speaker 1: So I feel like that's the problem that we're trying

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Speaker 1: to address in this episode. That's a very good sort

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Speaker 1: of big picture as to why this is a problem,

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Speaker 1: and then diving down to more the specifics. Right, deciding

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Speaker 1: whether something is a solid purchase, right, can really only

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Speaker 1: be made when you consider these costs before taking that plunge.

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Speaker 1: And so if you jump into a purchase before crunching

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Speaker 1: the numbers and realistically considering the complete financial picture, you

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Speaker 1: could easily sink your budget. You need to do your homework,

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Speaker 1: like this is just part of the due diligence period

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Speaker 1: of making a purchase. You don't want to necessarily have

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Speaker 1: what's it called an analysis paralysis, where you don't make

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Speaker 1: a decision because you're so stuck on the numbers and

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Speaker 1: you're so stuck on optimizing it and making it perfect

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Speaker 1: that it keeps you from any action at all. But

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Speaker 1: you have to do your homework. You have to take

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Speaker 1: the steps necessary in order to make sure that you're

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Speaker 1: setting yourself up for the future. Yeah, Matt, I love

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Speaker 1: what you just said. They're due diligence. I feel like

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Speaker 1: that is a great kind of way to think about

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Speaker 1: the secondary costs of a major purchase or even a

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Speaker 1: minor purchase that you're just about to make. Due diligence.

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Speaker 1: When it comes to buying a house, is that seven

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Speaker 1: or ten day or whatever you negotiate. Really, it's that

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Speaker 1: period that you have after you're under contract on a

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Speaker 1: house but you're not obligated to buy it. You know

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Speaker 1: you want to, but you don't have to go exactly,

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Speaker 1: and so that period of time gives you the ability

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Speaker 1: to walk through their decide whether you're into it, get

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Speaker 1: an inspection, all that stuff. That due diligence period is crucial,

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Speaker 1: and so many people back out of that purchase during

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Speaker 1: due diligence, right, And so I think due diligence is

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Speaker 1: is probably the right phrase to use when we're talking

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Speaker 1: about secondary costs of purchases we make doing that due diligence,

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Speaker 1: taking that time period to factor in and to look

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Speaker 1: at those secondary costs, and then whether your purchase is

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Speaker 1: a wise one or not, whether you can afford it

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Speaker 1: or you can't, or whether it's worth it to you

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Speaker 1: or it isn't. Like that due diligence period is going

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Speaker 1: to tell you, you you know, whether that purchase with its

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Speaker 1: associated secondary costs is right for you. Let's give examples

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Speaker 1: of some of the hard secondary costs when it comes

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Speaker 1: to buying a house that will kind of help put

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Speaker 1: it into perspective. It's not just the hundred fifty or

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Speaker 1: two price tag that's associated with the home for most people.

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Speaker 1: When you buy a home, there are many other hard

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Speaker 1: costs associated with owning that right, So in particular, you

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Speaker 1: need to figure in closing costs, getting that home inspection,

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Speaker 1: which can be four or more potential repairs on the

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Speaker 1: home that you'll need to make immediately and over time, insurance.

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Speaker 1: The list just goes on and on and on of

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Speaker 1: the hard costs that you're gonna pay when you buy

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Speaker 1: a home. You're gonna have taxes annually on that home.

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Speaker 1: The hard costs that are associated with the home purchase

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Speaker 1: are real, they are lengthy, and they are necessary when

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Speaker 1: you're considering whether you can afford that home purchase or not.

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Speaker 1: And then in addition to this hard cost man, there's

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Speaker 1: the lifestyle or soft secondary costs. And these are things

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Speaker 1: like furniture. Right, you get that big empty house and

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Speaker 1: you've got all these extra rooms that you're so happy

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Speaker 1: to have, and the first thing that most people do

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Speaker 1: is they start buying furniture exactly. And then that's honestly

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Speaker 1: been one of the biggest problems Matt Is as home

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Speaker 1: tizes have grown in America, they've pretty much doubled in

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Speaker 1: the last thirty years. Certainly, the primary costs of more

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Speaker 1: building material, of higher mortgage costs, right, that those factor in,

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Speaker 1: But it's so secondary costs that really seen people so

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Speaker 1: much of the time that they just didn't factor in.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of it is these lifestyle secondary costs.

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Speaker 1: It's the furniture to feel the ten rooms in your

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Speaker 1: house versus the four rooms you would have had in

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Speaker 1: something smaller yeah, man it what's so crazy about something

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Speaker 1: like furniture, right, is that this isn't a hard cost

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Speaker 1: where it's it's one and done, like, this is something

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Speaker 1: that can change over time, and that can change with

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Speaker 1: your taste. Who knows how much you could actually spend

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Speaker 1: on furniture over the lifetime of a specific house because

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Speaker 1: you could change your mind every I mean, you could

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Speaker 1: change your mind every month. Right. That might be crazy,

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Speaker 1: but you could. And so that's what's so difficult about

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Speaker 1: these soft secondary costs, or these lifestyle costs, is that

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Speaker 1: it's kind of up to you as a consumer. And

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Speaker 1: as we know advertising in the way that's fashion and

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Speaker 1: just different needs air quote needs are marketed to us,

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Speaker 1: we feel convinced that we do need something different. We

431
00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 1: do need something that's fresher or a little slicker, or

432
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,960
Speaker 1: something that's a little more shiny. And that's what's so tricky, right, Like,

433
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,040
Speaker 1: that's the slippery slope of these lifestyle choices is that

434
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,680
Speaker 1: you have to keep yourself in check. And from most folks,

435
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,040
Speaker 1: it's not something that once you buy, once you're done,

436
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,119
Speaker 1: Like when you buy a couch. Most folks aren't thinking, cool,

437
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,560
Speaker 1: I'm done with buying couches for the rest of my life.

438
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:33,560
Speaker 1: They know that they'll probably be a new one or

439
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 1: a different one maybe in ten years or five or

440
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,080
Speaker 1: even like two or three years, which is crazy in

441
00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,760
Speaker 1: my book. Yeah, Matt, when you put into perspective the

442
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,040
Speaker 1: overall costs that you're going to bear when you buy

443
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,959
Speaker 1: a house, it completely changes the equation, right, And we've

444
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,000
Speaker 1: talked about in multiple episodes. We've talked about, you know,

445
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,760
Speaker 1: renting a house versus buying. We've talked about why your house,

446
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:55,960
Speaker 1: a primary house, is a bad investment, and some of

447
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,560
Speaker 1: these secondary costs are the exact reason why a primary

448
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,680
Speaker 1: home is not always a good investment, and it's because

449
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,399
Speaker 1: you overspend and it's a secondary cost that really turned

450
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 1: that home purchase from something that might be okay into

451
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 1: something that's terrible for your wallet. And honestly, like we

452
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:14,719
Speaker 1: touched on our home renovation earlier in the show, and

453
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,359
Speaker 1: that's something that Kate and I that we've struggled with.

454
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 1: You start making improvements on your house, and you start,

455
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 1: like you said, like the examples you gave those are

456
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 1: pretty close to home because they're happening in our home

457
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 1: right now. Bam. But yeah, you start making improvements, and

458
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 1: you have to make the decision where are we going

459
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 1: to draw the line because you think, okay, we've got

460
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 1: this wall open, why not why not go ahead and

461
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,719
Speaker 1: make this improvement, or let's go ahead and insulate this

462
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,200
Speaker 1: because you can justify it. You can say, oh, well,

463
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,479
Speaker 1: this is for energy savings. Oh, this is something that

464
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,920
Speaker 1: is gonna in the long term, it's gonna save us money.

465
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,080
Speaker 1: But eventually you're gonna run out of money and you're

466
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:49,720
Speaker 1: gonna have to say no, or you're not going to

467
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:51,960
Speaker 1: run out of money, and you just need to say no. Right,

468
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,679
Speaker 1: you have to decide this is enough, We're happy with this.

469
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,680
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter that this isn't quite as nice. It's

470
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 1: gonna be fine. The same thing I think applies to

471
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 1: to our rental properties. Man, You and I both have

472
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,760
Speaker 1: rental properties, we have investment properties, and time to time

473
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:10,920
Speaker 1: things need to be replaced or upgraded because it's just old, nasty,

474
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,679
Speaker 1: and you have to make those decisions of where are

475
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:15,440
Speaker 1: you gonna draw the line because you, like you said,

476
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 1: you you replace one item, say in the bathroom, and

477
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,160
Speaker 1: you think, okay, that's gonna look terrible if we leave

478
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 1: it like that. Let's just go ahead and revamp the

479
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,159
Speaker 1: whole bathroom. Well then you've got like a really nice bathroom,

480
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 1: but the kitchen looks kind of rough, like you said.

481
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 1: And so it's not necessarily only with consumption, but it

482
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 1: can also be with what most folks would consider an investment.

483
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:36,919
Speaker 1: Where is a smart line to draw? And honestly, like

484
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:38,880
Speaker 1: that's the toughest question, and that's why it comes down

485
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,680
Speaker 1: to you as an individual. So yeah, Matt, let's give

486
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,680
Speaker 1: a few more example. It's just kind of flesh this out,

487
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 1: because I feel like these examples really hammer home the

488
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:50,639
Speaker 1: reality of these hard secondary costs and the soft secondary costs,

489
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,159
Speaker 1: which can make a purchase that looks good on the

490
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 1: front end actually a bad one. And so let's take,

491
00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,239
Speaker 1: for instance, going to college, the hard secondary costs that

492
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: are taking out loans, and those loans have interest unless

493
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 1: you're this super uber smart person and you've got mad

494
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 1: mega scholarships or whatever it is, which is awesome. Most

495
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 1: people in America, I mean, obviously we all know the

496
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 1: student loan debt crisis in America. One point five trillion

497
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,239
Speaker 1: dollars in student loan debt. It's just out of this world, right,

498
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 1: It's crazy and it's ruined the lives of many, many people.

499
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,479
Speaker 1: You have to factor in as you are going off

500
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,479
Speaker 1: to college, as your kids are going off to college,

501
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,680
Speaker 1: those hard costs, the loans and interest, and what that's

502
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:33,639
Speaker 1: gonna do to you over the long haul, and you

503
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: have to compare it to the usefulness of that college

504
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: degree for you over the long haul, especially in a

505
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 1: changing economy where requirements of individuals in the workforce are

506
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 1: changing almost daily, not just every decade, right, but but

507
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 1: almost daily that the requirements for young people coming to

508
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: the workforce is changing. So if you have a college

509
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 1: degree that you think today is going to be useful

510
00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 1: for the next thirty years, I mean, there's a small

511
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: chance that you're right, but there's a big chance that

512
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: you're wrong, and that those costs that you incurred actually

513
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 1: aren't going to pay off in the way that you

514
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 1: thought they were. Yeah, man, and even room and board, like,

515
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 1: if you're going off to college, it costs some money

516
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 1: to survive. It costs some money to have a place

517
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 1: to sleep and to live, and you got to feed

518
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 1: yourself even in college. But yeah, those are some of

519
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 1: the hard secondary costs associated with college, and so some

520
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: of the lifestyle secondary cost man associated with college are

521
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: what sort of revolve around the experience, what people think

522
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:32,640
Speaker 1: of when they go off to college and they want

523
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,439
Speaker 1: to have this sort of best four years of their life.

524
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 1: You're talking about keggers, right, Yeah, kiggers, I mean like

525
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:43,120
Speaker 1: literally partying, but folks oftentimes will say instead traveling abroad

526
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: or spring break. But all that sort of plays into

527
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: the American mentality of like the college experience and even

528
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: going out to you with friends, Like it doesn't have

529
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 1: to be something that where it's this huge, big ticket item,

530
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,360
Speaker 1: but just the sort of daily lifestyle thing this aspect

531
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,439
Speaker 1: that people associate with college. Yeah, or going on a

532
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 1: spring break trip with your friends, right, those are the

533
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,439
Speaker 1: kind of things that come up when you're in college.

534
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: That are these lifestyle secondary costs, right, that you're going

535
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,479
Speaker 1: to incur if you can't keep it under control. Right

536
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 1: and and like we said at the beginning of the

537
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 1: of the show, some of these are controllable. Some of

538
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 1: these are under your control. You can decide to back up,

539
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,479
Speaker 1: hit the brakes on that spring break trip, and with

540
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: that control, you're able to save yourself some money. Right.

541
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: You could say no to eating out, even though all

542
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: your friends are doing it. We're just saying, think about

543
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 1: these things, think about these costs that are likely to occur,

544
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 1: because saying no in the moment can be really hard.

545
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: Because there are ways, especially with these lifestyle secondary costs,

546
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: to actually cut down on those expenses. But just be

547
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: aware that they are likely to at minimum tempt you

548
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: to spend money on those things that other people around

549
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: you are spending money on. Just know that some of

550
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: those hard secondary costs are immovable when you make that choice.

551
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 1: And then some of those lifestyle secondary costs, they're either

552
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 1: likely that you're going to make that choice or it's

553
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: gonna take some resolve in order to make sure that

554
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: you don't incur those costs. Yeah, that's right. At the

555
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: very least, it's gonna be very tempting to also want

556
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 1: to go on that trip. Yeah. And so another example,

557
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: let's talk about cars or transportation, and so it's not

558
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,719
Speaker 1: just the cost of the car, right, there are a

559
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: lot of hard secondary costs associated with vehicles, things like

560
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 1: gas or insurance and repairs. Right. These are all things

561
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: that you know in your head mentally that these are

562
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 1: things I'm gonna have to pay, but it's not until

563
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: you actually go to the mechanic and you get that bill,

564
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: or you start receiving that insurance bill, the rubber hits

565
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 1: the road, exactly, you're gonna have to get new tires.

566
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: This is when you're gonna realize how much owning a vehicle,

567
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: owning a car is actually going to cost you. Yeah,

568
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,959
Speaker 1: the full amount of that original expense. Right. And so

569
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: if you buy a new car forty dollars or a

570
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 1: used car for five thousand dollars, there are secondary costs

571
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: that are immovable to a large extent, right, Uh, And

572
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 1: knowing that before you make the plunge is huge. So,

573
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 1: for instance, in our state, matt when you buy a

574
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: used car or a new car, you pay this. You

575
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:05,160
Speaker 1: pay the sales tax upfront day one, right. Well, and dude,

576
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,479
Speaker 1: in specific to Georgia, you don't even have to have

577
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 1: purchased the vehicle. Even if you bring that vehicle from

578
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: out of state into our state, you have to pay

579
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,719
Speaker 1: that tax. I know, I feel insane. I feel so

580
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 1: bad for anyone moving from another state, having bought a

581
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 1: new car recently and having potentially paid sales tax in

582
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 1: their home state, moving here and then paying it again. Honestly,

583
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: it's highway robbery. It's it's not right that. Tell you

584
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: about my buddy Cal that moved from New York. He's

585
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: got a great job, makes makes a good amount of money.

586
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: But he had recently purchased a Beamer fancy you know,

587
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: fancy BMW. Yeah, and it was only a couple of

588
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 1: years old, and he moved back to Atlanta, and dude,

589
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 1: he got hit with like a five over five thousand

590
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 1: dollar bill, not because he purchased it, but because he

591
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: is registering and transferring that vehicle to the state of

592
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: Georgia that he got nailed with that like, welcome to Georgia, dude,

593
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: pay up. Yeah, it's not right, it's rough. But those

594
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: are the kind of costs, right, So if I know

595
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: that ahead of time, I can pack her in. Well,

596
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: you know what, if I buy a thirty thousand dollar car,

597
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 1: I'm going to be hit with a multi thousand dollar

598
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 1: tax bill. If I buy a four thousand dollar car,

599
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: I'll be hit with a multi hundred dollar tax bill.

600
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 1: And that's a big difference. Right when we're factoring in

601
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,239
Speaker 1: those secondary costs, it massively influences the decision that we

602
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 1: make on that primary purchase. Right, And so directly in

603
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: a car or a home. Those secondary costs should have

604
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 1: a major overriding influence, I would say, on whether we

605
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,479
Speaker 1: make the primary purchase to begin with, or whether we

606
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 1: choose to make do with what we have or off

607
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: for something maybe a little less fancy. You know, this

608
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: actually makes me think of when you're purchasing a home

609
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: and if you're actually well, if you're not paying cash,

610
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 1: if you're getting a loan, which is I guess people

611
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: out there and you get that. Actually, actually I think

612
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: it's only seventy isn't that crazy? People pay cash for houses,

613
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: let's ball, or not pay cash for houses but own

614
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: their homes at least in full. Okay, so, but that

615
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 1: would be interesting to know how what plands people pay

616
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 1: cash for houses. It's fascinating. I'm curious. But either way,

617
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: the Truth and Lending Statement, you know, I'm talking about

618
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: the Truth and Lendings closure statement, Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And

619
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: it's got the chart and it's broken down by say

620
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 1: you're getting a thirty year mortgage. It's got you know,

621
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: the year that you're currently living in all the way

622
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: out thirty years, and it has the tally of the

623
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: full amount that you're actually paying an interest. That way,

624
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: you actually know how much it's costing you to finance

625
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: that house and to go ahead and get a mortgage

626
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: on it. It's like, we need that but on everything

627
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: in our life. Dishwasher, truth and lending statement, well except

628
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: that you're not getting alone on your dishwasher hopefully, And

629
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: to be honest, we actually have like some of those

630
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: things in some regards, right, We've got like the energy Yeah,

631
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: that's what I was thinking, the energy smart stickers on

632
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: like a TV or a washing machine, or let's say,

633
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: on a credit card statement. There's a law that required

634
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: credit card companies to put on their your statement you

635
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: know how long it would take you to pay off

636
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: your credit card bill if you're only to pay the

637
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: minimum exactly. And that's just so helpful for a consumer

638
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: to see, because it's freaky enough to see the balance

639
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: and the interest rate. But when you know that if

640
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: you only pay the minimums, you're gonna be paying for

641
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: thirty seven more years, I mean insane. Yeah, that a

642
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: lot of fire under you, right. But back to a

643
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: car mat Yeah, Like the biggest costs actually that people

644
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: don't factor in at all is depreciation, especially if you're

645
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: buying new right. That tax bill can be hard to handle.

646
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: It can be many thousands of dollars in lots of

647
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: states in one lump sum. But on top of that, man,

648
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: your depreciation costs are out of this world, and your

649
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: car driving it off the lot is worth less than

650
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: the day you bought it, and a few years in

651
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: is worth less. So make sure you factor that in.

652
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: Being someone the factors in secondary costs into the equation

653
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: is being the opposite of a payment buyer. A payment

654
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: buyer is what you don't want to be, right, You

655
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: want to be the buyer. That is being a smart

656
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: purchase and that includes factoring in all those secondary costs. Yeah, man,

657
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: But then even on top of that, there are the

658
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: lifestyle secondary costs. And I mean it kind of sounds

659
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: silly to day, but just like car accessories, anything from

660
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: tensing your windows to like getting a trailer hitch for

661
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: those spinny rims like you got on your van. They

662
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: look amazing though, so my friends Steve totally had like

663
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: the fake cub cap spinners he watched he'd watched too

664
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 1: much by ride on MTV. Oh gosh, what was his name?

665
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: Exhibit exhibit that's right, Exhibit No. He really did watch

666
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: that show, and he went to Auto Zone and bought

667
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: the plastic rims slapped him on his red ninety seven caravan,

668
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: and it was pretty awesome. That's a good look, I

669
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: will say that the an even better look, though, was

670
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: the fact that he had to tie his spinners down

671
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: because when he got above like sixty miles per hour,

672
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: they would like vibrate and make a loud racket, and

673
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: he was afraid they're gonna fall off, So he take

674
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: some string and he would he I mean, no joke,

675
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: He tied his spinners to themselves so that they wouldn't spin.

676
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: It sounds like there were some secondary cost to steve

677
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: the reputation while doing this as well. And so those

678
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: are silly sort of lifestyle choices. But even up to

679
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: feeling like you have to now have a garage because

680
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: you've got a new vehicle, dude, I'm gonna admit that

681
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: this is something that I personally felt somewhat of a

682
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: temptation to to do, not to necessarily get a garage,

683
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: but to want to keep my new vehicle clean. So

684
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: katon I bought a somewhat late model Honda recently, and

685
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: we just wanted that thing to look good. You know,

686
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: we dropped all this money on it, and I felt that,

687
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: you know what, we're gonna have the nice, newer vehicle.

688
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: I want to make sure it looks good. And because

689
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: of that, I was taking it to the car wash,

690
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: like the five dollar car wash where you just zip

691
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: through it real quick and it's so fast and easy

692
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: and I don't have to do anything. But I was

693
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: spending more money because I thought, Okay, I've got a

694
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: new vehicle, I've got to keep it clean. I didn't

695
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: have to keep it clean. That was just for me.

696
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: That was my ego. I didn't wanted to have a

697
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: shiny ride. And so as silly as it is to

698
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: say that that's just something I did, I was falling

699
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: into that trap. And part of me did think, man,

700
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: this is this is why people do have garages, because

701
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: they don't want the tree sap falling on their on

702
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: their nice vehicle that they just spent money on. And

703
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: the fact is, though it doesn't matter, because like you said,

704
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: it drops in the first five years of owning a

705
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,479
Speaker 1: new vehicle, and so it's not in an investment. This

706
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: is pure consumption, and these lifestyle secondary costs are are

707
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 1: nothing but consumption. Man. I feel like the perfect example

708
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: of kind of like what we were just talking about,

709
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: how you have actually a lot of control over these

710
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: costs is the example of expensive hobbies. So, for example,

711
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: golf golf can become either a ridiculously expensive hobby or

712
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: it can be a relatively cheap one. You can travel

713
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: all over the world to play the finest golf courses,

714
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: pay enormous greens fees, pay for a caddy, pay for

715
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: lodging while you're there, all those things, fancy clubs, nucleats, pants,

716
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: all the works, right, or you can be the guy

717
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: that goes to the Part three course three miles down

718
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: the road, plays once a week. The greens fees are

719
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: eleven dollars. There's such a range of options in there.

720
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: When you're talking about a hobby we've talked about before

721
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: in the show that I love to play disc golf.

722
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: You love to play disc golf. We play together, you know, rarely,

723
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: because we don't have them at a time, but when

724
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,959
Speaker 1: we do, it's amazing and there's almost no cost. Right,

725
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: courses are free. You need one, maybe two discs to

726
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: get started, and those are pretty cheap. Yeah, I've got three,

727
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: but I only used to. I've got like eight and

728
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,879
Speaker 1: I only used to so but so many of these

729
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: hobbies that you could potentially devote a lot of time

730
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: and energy to, well, the actual cost that you will

731
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: incur depends on you and not the hobby itself. That

732
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: makes me think of like college football specifically, and you

733
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: can be a college football fan and it can cost

734
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 1: you pretty much nothing. Right. You can just read the

735
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,879
Speaker 1: articles online, keep up with what's going on, and then

736
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: you could pick up a six pack and then take

737
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 1: it over to your friend's house who has cable. He

738
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: or she is stoked that you brought over some beer

739
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: this time. They'll be the cheap guy, and and then boom,

740
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: you're enjoying the game. You're hanging out with your friends.

741
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 1: It's cost you virtually nothing, right, Like, that's one end

742
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: of the spectrum. Or you can be on the other

743
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: end of the spectrum, right where you are forced to

744
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: make these mandatory contributions to your school because they happen

745
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: to have an awesome football program, and that gives you

746
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 1: the option to then buy football tickets, right like the

747
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,800
Speaker 1: season tickets, which costs thousands of dollars. Sounds like a

748
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: rackett to me. Dude, it is a rackett. And then

749
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:06,760
Speaker 1: on top of that, parking and then the parking passes

750
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 1: cost thousands of dollars, and and then on top of

751
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: that we were just talking about cars, like a lot

752
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: of people buy vehicles specifically for tailgating. Like how many

753
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: car commercials do you hear where they talk about tailgating?

754
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: Or that's the scene, right, there's some guys and they've

755
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: got to pick up truck or the STUV and they're

756
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 1: in the parking lot at a major stadium. Yeah, major

757
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: stadium or or or a college football stadium. Either way.

758
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: There are just so many expenses that can go towards

759
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: an interest or a hobby like that, but it doesn't

760
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 1: have to It comes down to you. There's a reason

761
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 1: why personal finance is personal. It depends on what you

762
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: see as being a priority in your life. And we

763
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: are here just to say be aware of these expenses.

764
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: Be aware of yourself because you know what, if you're

765
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 1: not gonna be able to resist not getting the parking

766
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: pass because you want to be able to hang out

767
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 1: with your friends and throw that awesome tailgate, just know

768
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: that it's going to cost you another three grand for

769
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: that parking pass. In addition to the tickets. Right, yeah, man,

770
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 1: it kind of makes me think. I think recently on

771
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 1: an episode, I mentioned how if I kind of came

772
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: into some money, I might consider buying another bike. And yeah,

773
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: right now where I'm at, I totally would not buy

774
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 1: another bike. But I'm viewing my bike in a super

775
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: utilitarian way right now, and I actually calculate how much

776
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 1: my bike is saving me over using the car. So

777
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,760
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about it actually as not just a purchase

778
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: that is for fun, but as something that can save

779
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: me money over the long haul. But if I was

780
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: thinking about it in a different mindset, in this kind

781
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,839
Speaker 1: of like the I want this mindset, Yeah, the I'm

782
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: a huge football fan. How much money can I spend

783
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: on this mindset? Right? Then I would have four or

784
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: five different bikes and I would be getting them maintained

785
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,240
Speaker 1: regularly by a local bike shop where it costs money,

786
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: right and instead of like do it yourself little tweaks

787
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:49,879
Speaker 1: and fixes there. It's just a different mindset that goes

788
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: into play when you're making a purchase like that. And

789
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: so whether you're a college football fan or a fan

790
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: of golf or disc golf, whatever it is that you're into,

791
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: there are ways to pursue that passion, and you know,

792
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: keeping those secondary costs in mind at the forefront of

793
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,399
Speaker 1: the decisions you make and how you pursue that passion. Yeah,

794
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 1: that's right. You don't have to get the whole kitten

795
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: caboodle to enjoy something that you have a passion for. Honestly,

796
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 1: this makes me think of photography because for a lot

797
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: of people, a lot of folks enjoy photography and they

798
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: get a camera, and so a hard cost for photography

799
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 1: might be the camera, because you've gotta have a camera

800
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: if you are into taking pictures, right, But then there's

801
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 1: all these lifestyle secondary costs associated with it that people

802
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: kind of get roped into, especially with photography because a

803
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: lot of times, if you're into photography, you're into the gear,

804
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,320
Speaker 1: and so you get the bag to protect the camera

805
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: and you get the lens flashes. I know all this

806
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 1: from experience. But if you're doing it as a hobby, right,

807
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: if you're doing it just as something that you're interested in,

808
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 1: you can enjoy photography on the cheap by just sticking

809
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 1: with some of the basic stuff, or you can go

810
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: freaking crazy and get all the stuff and before you

811
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: know it, You've got like ten in glass alone, and

812
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: that's photography speak for lenses, right, because but it's called

813
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: glass because that's what you're paying for it. Like, it's

814
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: just expensive, expensive glass, and a lot of times it's

815
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: so silly. And even photographers that do professionally, man, they

816
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: get caught up in this sort of gear mentality and

817
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 1: and just collecting and they just want to have everything

818
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: match and for everything to all be the same. And

819
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: it's not about function, it's not about the utility that

820
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,399
Speaker 1: it provides. It's it's more about emotions and what they

821
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: feel they need. And so being aware of that again

822
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,280
Speaker 1: is something that is important because it does not cost

823
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 1: a lot of money to be in a photography It

824
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: costs a lot of money to collect photography gear. Yeah,

825
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: that's a big difference. So after the break, there's just

826
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: a few steps, a few simple steps that people can

827
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 1: take in order to make a wise choice when they're

828
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 1: making a purchase so that secondary costs don't sink that

829
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: purchase and make it a dumb one. We'll talk about

830
00:38:54,160 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 1: that in just a second. Let's get to the helpful

831
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: and specific tips. Is it gonna be the things to

832
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: remember when you're making these different purchases or some of

833
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: these financial decisions, Joel, why you kick it off? Yea, So, Matt,

834
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 1: I think the first thing to do is to have

835
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: a little brainstorm session, right. You want to try to

836
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 1: come up with as extensive of a list as you

837
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: can of what cost you might incur based on that

838
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 1: new purchase or decision, So home car, right, Like, some

839
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: of those things are straightforward. Some of those things aren't straightforward.

840
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: The hard secondary costs are pretty straightforward when it comes

841
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 1: to taxes on a tun Or house first, a Hudd

842
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:40,800
Speaker 1: fifty dollar house. Before the purchase. You have control over

843
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: both the hard and the soft secondary costs once you

844
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: make the purchase, right, those hard costs are baked in.

845
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: You can't really change them. So brainstorming and knowing what

846
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: they are ahead of time will help you make an

847
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: informed decision so that you don't take on more than

848
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 1: you can handle. That's right, man. That's like the research

849
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 1: and information gathering step, right exactly, that's right man. And

850
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: so after you've gathered that information, the next step that

851
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 1: you want to take is to evaluate yourself. You need

852
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: to ask yourself, will I be able to say no

853
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 1: to these secondary lifestyle costs that are associated with the

854
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,359
Speaker 1: initial purchase, with the primary purchase. And what's helpful I

855
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: think too, man, is we've recently talked about talking with

856
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: your friends about money, and we talked about the impact

857
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 1: that your friends have on you when it comes to

858
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: expenses and spending, because it's natural that you want to

859
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 1: hang out with your friends, right, You want to be

860
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: in community, you want to feel like you're known, and

861
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 1: so you're naturally going to spend the same amount that

862
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 1: they spend. And so if you know all of your

863
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 1: friends when they become uh SEC football fans, you know

864
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: what that means to them, right, You know whether they

865
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 1: go over boarder, whether they're super chill about Yeah, exactly.

866
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: And so are you willing to say no, sorry, I'm

867
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 1: gonna just show up for a couple of games. I

868
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: keep saying football, right, I keep saying college football being football,

869
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: That's what I mean, Right, I mean, you're being in

870
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 1: football because we're Atlanta United fans and so and even

871
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: with us, Man, it's a temptation. That's the question I

872
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 1: asked myself, and so for Kate and I that was

873
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: a tough discussion and we talked about this on the

874
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: Couples and Money episode where we had our wives on.

875
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: But again just no, no, yourself, know your friends, and

876
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: just to be aware of the temptations and just be prepared. Yes,

877
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: so you really do have to kind of know yourself

878
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 1: and your tendencies and whether if you make the primary

879
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: purchase you will be able to restrain yourself on those

880
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: secondary costs, and then you need to do a cost

881
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: benefit analysis. I think it's really important, right, Well, this

882
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 1: purchase with all the primary costs and then all these

883
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 1: secondary associated costs return what I'm looking for, what I want.

884
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: Something as simple as additional sales tax on a purchase

885
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,359
Speaker 1: of a television, or as large as an interest rate

886
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 1: on a home or student loan can help you make

887
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 1: the decision to buy it, to go to school, right,

888
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,839
Speaker 1: or to not do that. College is great, But if

889
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 1: you have to pay interest on a student loan, like

890
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,359
Speaker 1: purely hypothetical, right, there's a much smaller chance that you're

891
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: going to go to school. And in the same way.

892
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 1: For instance, recently on a TV mat it was Black

893
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 1: Friday and there was this great deal. I've had the

894
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 1: same TV for twelve years. I thought, you know what,

895
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 1: maybe it's time for me to get a new TV.

896
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 1: I saw the price. It was great. I factored in

897
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 1: sales tax and just maybe it means I'm cheap. I

898
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: don't know. We talked about frugal versus cheap, but in

899
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 1: my mind it just didn't move the needle enough for

900
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 1: me after sales tax to make the purchase. So I

901
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: declined and I said, I'm gonna stick with my TV

902
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 1: for another year. And so a cost benefit analysis can

903
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 1: just really help hammer home whether a purchase or a

904
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 1: decision is worth it or not, and whether the benefit

905
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 1: you're going to receive is equivalent to the outgoing costs

906
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 1: associated with that move. And then finally, once you have

907
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: all that information, once you've gathered that information, and then

908
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 1: once you sort of analyze what kind of benefit is

909
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: this going to bring to me? Is it going to

910
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 1: be worth the cost? Once you have all the information together,

911
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: you need to act on that information. You do not

912
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 1: need to sweep that sort of under the rug just

913
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 1: because you want to emotionally make purchase that you know

914
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 1: you shouldn't. Yeah, And that's the great thing about this matter,

915
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 1: I think, is having numbers, having this process right so

916
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: that you can't just emotionally sweep that something under the

917
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 1: rug in order to make the decision that you want

918
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 1: to in your heart. These steps kind of help quantify

919
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 1: it so that you're not doing that. Let's right. Knowledge

920
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: is power, right, and having that information will help you

921
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 1: to make a better decision. You don't need to be

922
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: sticking your head in the sand and just ignoring all

923
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: that's around you just because you want to do what

924
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 1: you want to do. Having that information helps you to

925
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: make an informed decision. All right, Joel, let's go ahead

926
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 1: and get back to the beer. This is pretty Willie's

927
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 1: Imperial Stouts, and this is by against the Grain. Yeah,

928
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: so this is part of their Staved For later series,

929
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: you would explain what staves are. So staves are the

930
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: wooden pieces in a barrel that's made so like the

931
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:50,760
Speaker 1: individual wooden slats that come together to form an entire barrel.

932
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 1: And so this is a barrel aged Imperial Stout that

933
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: the brewery wants people to age for a certain period

934
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: of time. And so I got this beer over a

935
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 1: year ago from my awsome I'm real estate agent, and

936
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: our mutual friend Matt Helen, both of our real estate agent. Yeah.

937
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: Actually I was gonna say so in my story earlier

938
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 1: where we met. It's coming full circle. Man, this wasn't

939
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: at her house, Yes, yeah, that's Helen and Lee invited

940
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 1: both you and Emily and me and Kate over to

941
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 1: their house and we played. We played nerdy board games,

942
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: and little did you know that was gonna be the

943
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: beginning of how to money of a beautiful friendship, a

944
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: fun podcast, and an amazing real estate agent Helen. And

945
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 1: so she's supersweet. She knows you know, our love for

946
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: craft beer, my love for craft beer. And she gave

947
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 1: me this fantastic bottle of beer as a closing present,

948
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 1: and I have let it age for over a year

949
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 1: because that's the intent behind this beer. And so we're

950
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 1: drinking it now, excited to finally have pretty Willie's Imperial Stout.

951
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: And Matt, both of us right at the beginning of

952
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 1: the show, we each gave kind of one word to

953
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 1: describe the beer, and this is a big beer. It's

954
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 1: a huge stout. Yeah, I'm feeling it for sure, and

955
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 1: I'm not even done with mine. So the word I

956
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 1: used to describe it was roasty. Yeah, you said roasty,

957
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 1: And honestly, now that I've had a little more, I

958
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 1: don't think it's like the best word. I don't think

959
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 1: it's the best word to begin with. I felt like

960
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 1: an idiot sending it, but I said it. That's a

961
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: good word, So it's But I bet you're wishing you

962
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: would have said jacket. Definitely not wishing that, definitely not

963
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 1: feeling that even at this point in time. But please

964
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: tell us why you said jacket. Well, I mean I

965
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 1: said jacket because as soon as I drank it, I

966
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: felt like the texture of the beer before I tasted it,

967
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,320
Speaker 1: and it just felt like it was wrapping my tongue

968
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: and like this nice winter coat full of like boozy warmth,

969
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Like, when you have a

970
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: bigger beer like this, you can kind of feel the

971
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 1: booze on your tongue before you actually even taste it

972
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 1: with your I don't know your taste beds. And so

973
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:40,919
Speaker 1: for me, it was more of a texture thing because

974
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 1: it's an Imperial stout, so it's a little bit thicker

975
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: and it's got all the roasted and multi chocolate flavors

976
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: in it, Which is funny because I think right after

977
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 1: I said roasty, like an idiot, and the next word

978
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 1: that came to my mind was warming, Yeah, because it

979
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: truly does. It's bourbon barrel aged. It has a nice

980
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: bourbon flavor going on, and it almost warms you, like

981
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 1: on a cold day when you have a sip of

982
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 1: Scotch or bourbon. It almost kind of warms your insides

983
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 1: just a little bit, sort of like you're wearing a jacket,

984
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 1: sort of like a jacket touche. You win this one, sir,

985
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: you win this battle, but you will not win the war.

986
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 1: I guess jacket makes a little more sense now, um, awkwardly. So, Yeah,

987
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 1: this was a delicious beer. And we always mentioned untapped

988
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 1: on there though. You can kind of rank and rate

989
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 1: the beers that you get to enjoy, and for us,

990
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: it's a great way to keep up with the different

991
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 1: beers that we've had. Yeah, and so out of five stars, role,

992
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,399
Speaker 1: what would you give this beer? The great thing about

993
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 1: on Tap two is that I feel like I can

994
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,720
Speaker 1: research beers to see what other people rank them before

995
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 1: I make a purchase. And so you got pulled up.

996
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:46,399
Speaker 1: Don't tell me, don't tell well, let me rank mine.

997
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 1: Let me rank it first. Okay, for me, this is

998
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 1: a great imperial style. I think I might dude, I

999
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 1: would even give this a solid four and a half stars. Yeah.

1000
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 1: For me, it's a foreign a quarter, solid Foreign a quarter.

1001
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 1: It's a really good beer. It's solid, dude, I really

1002
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 1: like it. But there's nothing that stands out to make

1003
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: it epic, but truly refined. Very nice, Glad, I laid

1004
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 1: it down, Glad. We got to drink this together. Nice

1005
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,879
Speaker 1: Foreign a quarter and the average untapped rating four point

1006
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 1: to eight. Oh perfect, We're right on the money. All right,

1007
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 1: Enough about the beer, Joel, It's time now for some

1008
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 1: final thoughts. Kick it off, all right, Matt. So, just

1009
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 1: a reminder to everyone there are secondary costs involved with

1010
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 1: almost any purchase or decision that you make in life,

1011
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 1: and it is important to consider both the hard secondary

1012
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 1: costs that are immovable that are there no matter what

1013
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 1: once you make that purchase or decision, and also the

1014
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 1: soft oral lifestyle secondary costs that follow a purchase or

1015
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 1: decision that you make. These costs to fall outside of

1016
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: the original purchase amount, right, and they can turn what

1017
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 1: seems like a good purchase on the front end into

1018
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 1: one that does not work well for you or your budget.

1019
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 1: That's right, man. And the process of the things that

1020
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 1: you want to remember when you're making these purchases or

1021
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 1: financial decisions. First of all, brainstorm, you want to come

1022
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 1: up with a lists of all the different costs, all

1023
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 1: the different secondary costs associated with that purchase. Next, you

1024
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:07,800
Speaker 1: need to know yourself, how are you going to respond

1025
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:12,360
Speaker 1: to the soft or lifestyle secondary costs associated with that?

1026
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 1: Will you be able to say no when you feel

1027
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: those cultural pressures to get the next piece that matches

1028
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 1: whatever it is that you just got. Next, you want

1029
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 1: to do an analysis. You know, will the purchased item

1030
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 1: bring the joy, bring the benefit and the utility that

1031
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 1: you're expecting it to bring in your life? And then lastly,

1032
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 1: you need to take all that information and you need

1033
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 1: to take action on what you've learned and what you've gathered.

1034
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:36,400
Speaker 1: You don't want to sweep it under the rug. You

1035
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: don't want to stick your head in the sand. You

1036
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 1: want to take the next steps to either make that

1037
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 1: purchase or to not make that purchase based on what

1038
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 1: you've decided. So everyone, we appreciate you listening to this

1039
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 1: episode of the podcast. Be sure to check out our website,

1040
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 1: how to money dot com up there. As always, we

1041
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 1: will have some show notes with some additional links and

1042
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: some more information that we discussed in this episode. Yeah,

1043
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 1: if you like what you here let us know. In particular,

1044
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: please leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're

1045
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 1: listening to the show. We really appreciate it, and don't

1046
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 1: forget to hit the subscribe button while you're there. All right, buddy,

1047
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 1: Until next time, Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out, Man