Speaker 1: Hey, everyone. In honor of small business month, I sat down with Ben Walter, the host of The Unshakeables podcast and the CEO of Chase for Business. Ben came to us for advice on how small business owners can improve their mental health and build resilience over the long run. And I wanted to hear in return the stories he's gathered over the years of small business owners who've had their own slight change of plans. I hope the takeaways from this conversation are helpful for anyone who's looking to cultivate a bit more resilience when it comes to the changes we all face at work. Ben and I started by talking about some of the unique challenges that small business owners face.
Speaker 2: The most important thing to keep in mind is that
Speaker 2: when you're a small business owner, you are the everything.
Speaker 2: You are the custodian, you are the CEO, you are
Speaker 2: the floor manager, you are the customer relations professional. If
Speaker 2: there's a hat you can wear, you wear it. You know,
Speaker 2: if you work for a big company and something comes
Speaker 2: up in your personal life, you can say, can someone
Speaker 2: cover that for me? And in this case, there's often
Speaker 2: no one to cover that for me, So that's one
Speaker 2: angle is just how broad your responsibilities are relative to
Speaker 2: a bigger business. And then the second way is the
Speaker 2: amount of accountability and responsibility you take for everything that
Speaker 2: happens in that business because it's yours. If you make
Speaker 2: a bad decision in a small business and it goes poorly,
Speaker 2: it can put that business out of business, and that's
Speaker 2: a worry that you carry all the time. I can't
Speaker 2: tell you how many small business owners I meet who
Speaker 2: who feel deeply personally responsible for their employees' livelihoods, and
Speaker 2: how fundamental that obligation is to their personality and their character.
Speaker 2: And that doesn't mean that people like me who work
Speaker 2: for big companies don't take their job seriously and don't
Speaker 2: feel any level of stress or accountability in life. Of
Speaker 2: course they do. But if you think about the CEO
Speaker 2: of a public company, that CEO is responsible for a lot,
Speaker 2: but with a whole bunch of infrastructure to go along
Speaker 2: with it, and shareholders and governance and a lot of
Speaker 2: that just doesn't exist in a small business. It all ends,
Speaker 2: starts and ends with you.
Speaker 1: Sure. Ben, you host a podcast called the Unshakeables where
Speaker 1: you actually talk to small business owners about how they
Speaker 1: have navigated some of the most difficult moments they faced
Speaker 1: when it came to building their businesses. Can you think
Speaker 1: of an example of someone who found a way through
Speaker 1: a difficult challenge, maybe related to one of the constraints
Speaker 1: you just mentioned.
Speaker 2: On our very first episode, we had a coffee company
Speaker 2: who their entire warehouse burned down, most of their inventory
Speaker 2: gone overnight, and they had to figure out what to do.
Speaker 2: They had built a strong support system that was not
Speaker 2: only the traditional centers of influence that a small business
Speaker 2: would have, an accountant, a lawyer, and an insurance agent,
Speaker 2: all those kinds of things. They had also built deep
Speaker 2: connections into their coffee community, including with competitors. And it's
Speaker 2: not the way you would normally think that this would go,
Speaker 2: but because they had built such deep mutual respect, they
Speaker 2: were actually storing some of their coffee supplies with a competitor.
Speaker 2: and the competitor let them use their equipment at night
Speaker 2: until they could get their factory rebuilt. That's an example
Speaker 2: of something where a little bit of foresight and a
Speaker 2: little bit of networking and a lot of goodwill was
Speaker 2: able to pull them through.
Speaker 1: Hm. I love that story, and what a beautiful example of
Speaker 1: humanity shining through in a difficult time. What lessons do
Speaker 1: you think we should learn from that example?
Speaker 2: We should learn a couple of things. One is we
Speaker 2: build our networks that matter when things are fine, not
Speaker 2: when things aren't fine. Invest in those things when you
Speaker 2: are not asking for anything, because nobody likes to be
Speaker 2: asked for the first time when they've never seen you
Speaker 2: and they've never met you and you need help. So
Speaker 2: that's one is build those networks then, and two is
Speaker 2: really do some contingency planning. I talked about the many
Speaker 2: responsibilities of a small business owner. One of them is
Speaker 2: to think through what could go wrong, and think about
Speaker 2: what could go wrong that you could survive, and what
Speaker 2: could go wrong that you might not survive, and what
Speaker 2: am I going to do to manage that risk.
Speaker 1: That's such an excellent point. It's what you're doing when
Speaker 1: things are going right.
Speaker 2: I tell my kids that all the time. I'm like,
Speaker 2: you make friends when things are good, you don't make
Speaker 2: friends when things are bad.
Speaker 1: There are so many stories of small business owners making
Speaker 1: huge personal sacrifices in order to guarantee that their staff
Speaker 1: and their company thrive. For example, CEOs shop owners going
Speaker 1: an entire year or two without a proper salary to
Speaker 1: ensure that their staff gets paid. Just chatting with you
Speaker 1: now about the incredible demands that are placed on small
Speaker 1: business owners. Should we revere this trade as much as
Speaker 1: we do? And is there an alternative path to success
Speaker 1: in which business owners are able to more effectively balance
Speaker 1: caring about their staff and caring about themselves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think the ones, maya who do it
Speaker 2: really well sort of have a mental line drawn in
Speaker 2: their mind and they try as much as they can
Speaker 2: despite the fact that the business is you and you
Speaker 2: are the business to separate them. I talked about Quanetta McNeal,
Speaker 2: the woman we had on our show who she built
Speaker 2: a business called Haus of Logistics, really interesting business distributing
Speaker 2: goods for a large e-commerce retailer. She lost her marriage
Speaker 2: during the business, and she did a great job, I think,
Speaker 2: managing the two things in as separate a way as
Speaker 2: you can, because she knew deep down that keeping her
Speaker 2: employees happy, satisfied and productive was the key to her
Speaker 2: business thriving, and that if her business was doing well,
Speaker 2: she would be able to deal with the things she
Speaker 2: needed to deal with in her personal life. And I
Speaker 2: have a lot of respect for that.
Speaker 1: You mentioned earlier that one reason small business owner's mental
Speaker 1: health might be compromised is because they really do feel
Speaker 1: a huge responsibility to care for their employees right that
Speaker 1: it rests on their shoulders. And one scientist I spoke
Speaker 1: with on the show a professor from Stanford named Jamil Zaki.
Speaker 1: He actually studies the science of empathy, and there are
Speaker 1: three kinds of empathy. The first type is called emotional empathy,
Speaker 1: the kind of visceral experience we have when we literally
Speaker 1: feel someone else's emotions right, our facial expressions change, we
Speaker 1: might have a tear form in our eyes. The second
Speaker 1: is cognitive empathy, which is simply recognizing what it is
Speaker 1: that might make the other person feel better. And then
Speaker 1: the third type of empathy is empathic concern, so the
Speaker 1: ability to want to help the other person, to actually care.
Speaker 1: What Jamil says is that emotional empathy is the kind
Speaker 1: of empathy that's most associated with burnout, and so sometimes
Speaker 1: people feel like, well, I don't want to do away
Speaker 1: with my empathy altogether, because I want to be the
Speaker 1: type of CEO that cares about my employees. And he
Speaker 1: offers an alternative, which is maybe you just switch the
Speaker 1: kind of empathy that you feel in that moment, so
Speaker 1: rather than channeling it towards that visceral physical feeling in
Speaker 1: your body, you channel it to words actually coming up
Speaker 1: with constructive solutions. And so they found that with for example,
Speaker 1: healthcare workers, when they focus more on empathic concern and
Speaker 1: more on cognitive empathy, they're much less likely to experience burnout.
Speaker 2: And how actively can someone make that decision? Can can
Speaker 2: someone make a conscious choice? I feel so awful, I
Speaker 2: want to cry for this person. The tear is going
Speaker 2: down my cheek, but I'm not going to cry. That
Speaker 2: tear I'm going to focus on is that a real
Speaker 2: thing people can do.
Speaker 1: Different types of empathy are things that we can cultivate.
Speaker 1: So in the person that can't resist the tears, we're
Speaker 1: not saying stifle them. We're saying, then try to channel
Speaker 1: your effort and focus and attention on the cognitive empathy
Speaker 1: side of things. Right, So it's not necessarily one empathy
Speaker 1: displacing another one, as much as grabbing the bulk of
Speaker 1: your attention in that moment which we think can help
Speaker 1: prevent burnout. Or for people who are accused by their
Speaker 1: staff of not being empathetic enough. Right, they might say, like, look,
Speaker 1: I can't force tears when they're not there, but you're
Speaker 1: allowing people to understand there's actually a richer landscape of
Speaker 1: possibility when it comes to empathy. And so yes, maybe
Speaker 1: that kind of visceral empathy doesn't come to you naturally,
Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean you're not an empathetic person or
Speaker 1: that you're not capable of cultivating other kinds of empathy.
Speaker 1: So I think it's like, in the same way that
Speaker 1: people have different love languages, they have different empathic languages,
Speaker 1: and that kind of diversity can help people thrive.
Speaker 2: That's really interesting. I've never heard that framework.
Speaker 1: I want to know whether you have advice for people,
Speaker 1: for listeners of this show who are just struggling with
Speaker 1: their well being generally at work, whether they work for
Speaker 1: a small business or not. They're just like Ben, work
Speaker 1: is hard. Give me some techniques to help me get
Speaker 1: through this challenging time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say, for you know, having done a
Speaker 2: lot of stressful jobs myself. If I'm honest, I think
Speaker 2: there are two or three things that can really help.
Speaker 2: The first one I would say is understanding the purpose
Speaker 2: and being really clear in your own mind about why
Speaker 2: you do what you do, because when you lose your why,
Speaker 2: it gets exponentially harder to cope with whatever things throw you.
Speaker 2: It's like for anybody who's listening who has kids, you know,
Speaker 2: the minute you have that child, you're very clear on
Speaker 2: why that child matters to you. And when you're up
Speaker 2: late at night doing what you know, you cope because,
Speaker 2: because you see the bigger picture. Maintaining that bigger picture
Speaker 2: in that why, so that it's always there in the
Speaker 2: front of your mind, I think is really helpful. The
Speaker 2: second is, and I have had to learn this the
Speaker 2: hard way, is that organization will set you free. There
Speaker 2: is the rare bird who can flit from thing to
Speaker 2: thing in a completely disorganized way and hold it all together.
Speaker 2: Most people can't. So being incredibly intentional about how you
Speaker 2: spend your time, what you spend your time on, and
Speaker 2: critically what you won't spend your time on, and so
Speaker 2: you're okay if it doesn't get done because you are
Speaker 2: choosing not to spend your time time on it. You
Speaker 2: own your calendar or it will own you no matter
Speaker 2: what you do. And then the third is whether you
Speaker 2: work for a company or you are a small business owner,
Speaker 2: or you're a CEO or what, it doesn't matter. You
Speaker 2: need trusted outlets. You need people who you can talk
Speaker 2: to and tell anything to, and most importantly, you need
Speaker 2: truth tellers. You need people who will be brutally honest
Speaker 2: with you and who will tell you well. The reason
Speaker 2: that you're not coping well is because you're focused on
Speaker 2: the wrong things, or you're chasing something down a rabbit
Speaker 2: hole that you shouldn't. You know, it's okay to go
Speaker 2: people for comfort, but I think having a you know,
Speaker 2: one or two people in your life who you go
Speaker 2: to who you know will just let you have it
Speaker 2: in all honesty, good or bad. In a completely trusting scenario,
Speaker 2: I think is super helpful for people trying to cope
Speaker 2: at work.
Speaker 1: Hey, thanks so much for listening. If you're a fan
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Speaker 1: for you and join me next time when world renowned
Speaker 1: rock climber Beth Rodden tells her side of the story,
Speaker 1: the one that put her name in headlines all over
Speaker 1: the world. That's next time on A Slight Change of Plans.
Speaker 1: See you then. A Slight Change of Plans is created, written
Speaker 1: and executive produced by me Maya Shankar. The Slight Change
Speaker 1: family includes our show runner Tyler Green, our senior editor
Speaker 1: Kate Parkinson Morgan, our producers Britney Cronin and Megan Lubin,
Speaker 1: and our sound engineer Erica Huang. Louis Scara wrote our
Speaker 1: delightful theme song, and Ginger Smith helped arrange the vocals.
Speaker 1: A Slight Change of Plans is a production of Pushkin Industries,
Speaker 1: so big thanks to everyone there, and of course a
Speaker 1: very special thanks to Jimmy Lee. You can follow A
Speaker 1: Slight Change of Plans on Instagram at doctor Maya Shankar.
Speaker 1: See you next week.