1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: The Butcher of Moss is released weekly absolutely free, but 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: you can binge the entire season now with iHeart True 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: Crime Plus exclusively on Apple Podcasts. You'll also get ad 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 1: free listening and exclusive bonus episodes. So head to Apple Podcasts, 5 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 1: search iHeart True Crime Plus and subscribe today. 6 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 2: The views and opinions expressing this podcast are solely those 7 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,480 Speaker 2: of the podcast's author or individuals participating in the podcast, 8 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,239 Speaker 2: and do not represent those of iHeartMedia, Tenderfoot TV, or 9 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 2: their employees. This podcast also contains subject matter which may 10 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 2: not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. 11 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: It was November two thousand and six, approximately ten years 12 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: after the first victim of The Butcher of Moss was murdered. 13 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: Agent Mike Clarke and two profilers from the FBI's Behavioral 14 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:10,399 Speaker 1: Analysis Unit in Quantico, Virginia, found themselves thousands of miles 15 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: away from home in the eastern European country of Albania. 16 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: They were there to assist local authorities to investigate a 17 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: series of gruesome murders that they believed could be the 18 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 1: work of a serial killer. Weeks earlier, the torso of 19 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: a new Jane Doe victim was found floating in a 20 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: small lake near Tirana, the capital city of Albania. Police 21 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: had located several body parts, but the head was missing. 22 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: Shortly after arriving, the FBI agents found themselves standing over 23 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: a badly damaged corpse in the examination room of an 24 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: unrefrigerated morgue. They were shocked to find that doctors had 25 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: crudely stitched the body back together and incorrectly attached the 26 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: left leg to the right hip and the right leg 27 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: to the left. Properly examining the corpse and these conditions 28 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: was impossible, so they sealed the body into a lead 29 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: lined casket and shipped it back to Quantico. They had 30 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: no way of knowing this at the time, but the 31 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: gruesome discovery would soon lead them to Belgium to examine 32 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: the infamous unsolved case of the Butcher of Moss, a. 33 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 3: Mysterious sect of all the rest unity, the disappearance of 34 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 3: a woman from Mount Xa. 35 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 4: The condition of the victims was sickening. 36 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 5: And the question remains, where is the killer? 37 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: From Tenderfoot TV and Iheard podcasts, I'm your host Matt 38 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: Graves and this is le Monstre Season two, The Butcher 39 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: of Moss by the summer of nineteen ninety seven, women 40 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: in and around mass were being urged to avoid going 41 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: out alone, and any new female missing person's cases were 42 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: treated with urgency. It was against this backdrop that a 43 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: woman returned to her home near Moss after a vacation 44 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,279 Speaker 1: to notice that her neighbor, a woman named Boggia Valencia, 45 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: seemed to be missing. Begonia was thirty eight years old 46 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: at the time and lived a few doors down from 47 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: the neighbor in the municipality of Fremerie. It was a quiet, 48 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: working class suburb on the outskirts of Moss, the type 49 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: of street where neighbors knew each other and looked after 50 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: one another. She had already been worried about Begonia before 51 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: leaving on her vacation because she hadn't been well. Investigative 52 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: journalist Frederic Lau covered Bogoonia's disappearance in real time and 53 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: spoke with his neighbor. 54 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 5: So after her disappearance, I went to the neighborhood. I 55 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 5: had several contacts with the neighbors of Beagonia, and I 56 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 5: remembered that someone a woman who were living next to Bagonia, 57 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 5: and that neighbor told me that before, she used to 58 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 5: meet Beagoniac quite often. She had a quite good relationship 59 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 5: with her. She told me that she had changed at 60 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 5: that time, she was mentally unstable and she was afraid 61 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 5: of her because of her appearance physical appearance, because at 62 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 5: that time, she told me, Begonia was very kinney, she 63 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 5: had lots of spots in her face, and that neighbor 64 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 5: was afraid about our children. She didn't want our children 65 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 5: could meet Bagonia into the streets, and the situation was 66 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 5: all full. 67 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 1: At that time, Bogonia suffered from depression and serious mental illness, 68 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: often slipping in and out of psychotic episodes. Her husband 69 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: also suffered from mental illness and was in psychiatric care, 70 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: leaving Bogonia alone and in a deteriorating state. When family 71 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: members confirmed they hadn't seen Bogonia, the neighbor contacted the 72 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 1: police to report her missing. 73 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 6: A thirty eight year old woman disappeared two weeks ago 74 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 6: in Mon's Investigators are exploring a link with the butcher 75 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,119 Speaker 6: of Mon's case in so far as the missing woman 76 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 6: has a similar profile as other victims of the serial killer. 77 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 1: For the first time, an active missing person was a 78 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: suspected victim of the butcher of Moss. 79 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 6: Bogonia Valencia disappeared during the month of July. She lived 80 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 6: in a small working class home with her husband. Plagued 81 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 6: by depression, the young woman had changed recently. At the 82 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 6: time of her disappearance, she only weighed around seventy pounds. Apparently, 83 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 6: she also frequented the area around the Mons train station, 84 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 6: from where the four other victims of the serial killer disappeared. 85 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: Police discovered that Bogunia Valencia was often seen around the 86 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: train station, the epicenter of the killer's hunting ground, and 87 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 1: like other victims, Madame Gange, the owner of the Hotel Metropol, 88 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: also knew Bogunia. 89 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 4: I knew Bogonia. She had a lot of blemishes on 90 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 4: her face, so she was easy to recognize. She came 91 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 4: to La Metropol from time to time with friends. She 92 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 4: would come at night to have a drink. 93 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: Summer turned into fall with no sign of Bogognia Valencia. 94 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: It had been three months since her disappearance when some 95 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: local kids playing in the woods stumbled across skeletal remains. 96 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: It was a human skull found just off of Bethlehem Road, 97 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: next to a small river named Feer Creek. Police searched 98 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: the area closely and found fragments of vertebrae. They concluded 99 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: that the head had been decapitated with a handsaw. Further 100 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: tests were able to identify the victim as Bogugnia Valencia. 101 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: Saw marks were identical to those of the other women 102 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: who had been dismembered. She was confirmed as the fifth 103 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: victim of the butcher of Moss. Hopes that the serial 104 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: killer had either stopped or moved elsewhere were immediately crushed. 105 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: The fact that Pagonia was murdered at the height of 106 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: the then sprawling investigation proved that the killer was unfazed 107 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: by the increased police presence and media attention. The end 108 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety seven was the beginning of a long 109 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: period of frustration. Police were furiously working the case, but 110 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: no new arrests were made. I was able to track 111 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: down the clerk of the investigating judge overseeing the entire 112 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: case when it started. Alain Cardon was right there from 113 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: the beginning, visiting each of the gruesome dumb sites as 114 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: they were discovered, and coordinating the entire judicial investigative process. 115 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: He sat down with me for an interview. 116 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 7: I was the clerk of the investigating judge who attended 117 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 7: the scene on Saturday, the twenty second of March nineteen 118 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 7: ninety seven during the discoveries of the first thrashbags. I 119 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 7: remember it very well. It was a Saturday and we 120 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 7: had already had a busy morning in an affair or 121 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 7: norm The scene was completely out of the ordinary and 122 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 7: we had to move quickly and try to determine who 123 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 7: was in the trash bags. We noticed that there were 124 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 7: multiple victims and that there were women. It's certain that 125 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 7: for me and many others there was a before and 126 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 7: after the twenty second of match, because to be confronted 127 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 7: with a scene like that, with body parts that had 128 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 7: been cut up. 129 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 5: The complete himselt from a man. 130 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 7: Arms, legs, hands. We never found the heads. It's traumatizing. Afterwards, 131 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 7: we spent thousands of hours on the case. In the days, 132 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 7: weeks and months that followed, we spent ninety percent of 133 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 7: our time on it. You have to understand that this 134 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 7: was one of one hundred thirty active cases we were 135 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 7: working at the time, and it happened at the same 136 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,599 Speaker 7: time as the dou Treux affair, and police officers, investigators, 137 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 7: forensics experts, and generally the whole judiciary was focused on 138 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 7: the Dutra case, which is normal, but the extra reinforcements 139 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:13,439 Speaker 7: we would have needed never arrived. I can't share the details, 140 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 7: but after Le Paul Bogaert was arrested, charged and then 141 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 7: later released, there were several other lines of investigations that 142 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 7: were analyzed, and there were suspects who were interesting, even disturbing, 143 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 7: but not enough to make an arrest. Over the years, 144 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 7: we continued to work on the case and interviewed over 145 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:38,319 Speaker 7: one thousand people America, and then at one point we 146 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 7: were contacted by the Americans. 147 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: At the top of the episode, he heard about FBI 148 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: agents investigating a mysterious case in Albania. They were assisting 149 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: local authorities so file a potential serial killer who was 150 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: murdering and dismembering women. So they transported the latest victim's 151 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: remains to the United States for examination. When the FBI 152 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: agents returned to Quantico, they learned that their colleagues in 153 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 1: New York were also working on a case from the 154 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: region from which they just returned. They were searching for 155 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: a man who they believed was responsible for the murder 156 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: and dismemberment of a woman on us soil. The forensics 157 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: of this American case were eerily similar to the Jane 158 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: Doe from Albania, whose autopsy had revealed that she was 159 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:37,079 Speaker 1: murdered and then dismembered with a sharp instrument, likely a handsaw. 160 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: Could this just be a coincidence The suspect they're pursuing 161 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: for the murder and dismemberment of an American woman happens 162 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,199 Speaker 1: to hail from the same region from where another woman 163 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: was found murdered and dismembered in almost the exact same way. 164 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: Coincidence or connection, they had to look into it. The 165 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: problem was that the suspect had apparently fled from the 166 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: United States dates to Belgium. To understand this complicated international 167 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,959 Speaker 1: investigation and how it relates to the butcher of Moss, 168 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: we have to go back to the year of nineteen ninety. 169 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:19,359 Speaker 1: In Brooklyn, New York. On the morning of September fifteenth, 170 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety, a woman spotted a black garbage bag on 171 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: the sidewalk near her office in the Vinegar Hills section 172 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: of Brooklyn, New York. When she picked up the bag 173 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: to move it off the sidewalk, it seemed to be 174 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:35,839 Speaker 1: leaking blood, so she called the police. The trash bag 175 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: contained human remains. Within hours, two more trash bags containing 176 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: body parts were found in the same area. The remains 177 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: belonged to the same female victim, and the dismemberment appeared 178 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,119 Speaker 1: to have been carried out using sharp instruments, including a handsaw. 179 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: Her head was never found. A week later, police received 180 00:12:57,679 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: a tip about a woman who went missing on the 181 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: same day the bags were found. Her name was Mary 182 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 1: Beale from the Bronx. Here's a clip from a nineteen 183 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: ninety news interview with one of Mary's neighbors. 184 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 8: She always thought that you know that she was being 185 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 8: harassed by someone. I don't know that someone was, I 186 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 8: can really tell you, and she went out. She always said, 187 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 8: if I'm not back in my store by two days, 188 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 8: come up for me. 189 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 1: Police use Mary's medical records to compare X rays from 190 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: a previously broken ankle to the recovered remains. 191 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 9: Police are now confirming that the body, cut into pieces 192 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 9: and stuffed into two plastic garbage bags found in this 193 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 9: lot near the Brooklyn Navy Yard last month, is indeed 194 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 9: that of sixty one year old Mary Beale. 195 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: It didn't take long for police to identify a prime suspect. 196 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: Mary had been seeing a man named Smayo Jerlik. Smayo 197 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 1: was originally from the former Yugoslavia near the Albanian border, 198 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: but had been living in New York for over twenty 199 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: years working as a taxi driver. He was fifty years 200 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 1: old at the time. At under five feet tall, with 201 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: a pudgy frame and balding sma Yo didn't seem threatening, 202 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: but he had a rap sheet with violent offenses, including 203 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 1: a case where he beat a man in Midtown with 204 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: a night stick because the man banged on the roof 205 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: of his taxi. Police found several lewde messages from Smayu 206 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: on the victim, Mary Beale's answering machine, and several people 207 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,239 Speaker 1: who knew her confirmed that she was seeing him romantically, 208 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: despite him being married to another woman who was his 209 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: third wife. They also confirmed that Mary had complained that 210 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: Smayo was manipulative and that he constantly harassed her. After 211 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: acquiring a warrant, authorities went to his residence only to 212 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: find it empty, with a stack of unopened mail at 213 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: the entrance. When they carried out a search, they found 214 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: a knife on the breakfast table and blood was detected 215 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: in his residence that was consistent with Mary Beale, Smayo 216 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: had apparently skipped town with his wife. It would be 217 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: years before authorities would find any trace of him. In 218 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four, they tracked down his then estranged wife, 219 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: who was living in Belgium, and confirmed that she had 220 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: moved there from New York with Smayo, but she claimed 221 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: that she didn't know where he was. Just over a 222 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: year later, the gruesome murders of the butcher of Moss 223 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: would begin. We now know that Smayo was living in 224 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: Belgium in nineteen ninety six and nineteen ninety seven. The 225 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: striking similarities of the murder, dismemberment, and disposal method of 226 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: body parts gave pause to both American and Belgian investigators. 227 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: I spoke with the award winning journalist Nicholas Schmidtl, who 228 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: reported extensively on the Smayo Jurlik case in the New 229 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: York Times. 230 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 10: I was writing for the New York Times magazine. And 231 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 10: we know when you're into a story and you realize 232 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 10: that no one else has that story, and it's something 233 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 10: that it feels like you could really sink your teeth 234 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 10: into it. Schmeo Deserlich. This individual who had been identified 235 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 10: as the probable killer of this woman in I believe 236 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 10: in nineteen ninety in New York. And then there was 237 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:13,119 Speaker 10: this string of murders that bore a very similar signature 238 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 10: to the New York murder that took place in Belgium 239 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 10: in the mid nineties at the time that that Schmeo 240 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 10: was living there. 241 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: And then you have at least. 242 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 10: One, but maybe more murders in Albania in two thousand 243 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 10: and six, and Smeo de Gerlich was living in New 244 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 10: York and was ultimately convicted of the murder in nineteen ninety. 245 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 10: He was living in Belgium around the time of the 246 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 10: unsolved murders in Moms, and he was living in southern Montenegro, 247 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 10: not far from the site of these other murders. It 248 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 10: took place in two thousand and six. So there was 249 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 10: from an investigative perspective, at least one constant to all 250 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 10: of these murders, and that was the style of which 251 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 10: these bodies were dismembered, and the fact that Smeo de 252 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,199 Speaker 10: Gerlich was living in or near these places when they 253 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 10: took place. I remember the type of saw that was 254 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 10: used to dismember the body's post mortem appeared to be 255 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 10: the same kind of saw. You likely know the details 256 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:16,679 Speaker 10: of the Mons murders better than I do, but there 257 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 10: there were similarities to the style. And because Smeo once 258 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 10: he had been implicated and was about to be charged 259 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 10: for the murder of Mary Beale, he fled the country 260 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 10: and went to Belgium. And so the fact that he 261 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 10: was in Belgium around the time of the Mons murders, 262 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 10: which remained unsolved but bore many of the same hallmarks, 263 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,640 Speaker 10: if you will, kind of macabre hallmarks of the Mary 264 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 10: Beeal murder, I think, left many to suspect that he 265 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 10: may have been involved in those as well. 266 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 1: Nicholas was able to interview the FBI agent Mike Clark extensively, 267 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: and he even traveled to Belgium and Albania to investigate 268 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: this Smyoerlic case. 269 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 10: So I went up to New York and some time 270 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 10: with the New York Police Department detectives who worked in 271 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 10: that case, and then I went to Belgium and spoke 272 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 10: to authorities there in Mons. And it was an interesting 273 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 10: conversation because I think the FBI agents whom I spoke 274 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 10: with felt that the Belgian authorities were convinced that Smeo 275 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 10: de Zerlik was not the butcher of Mons, but they 276 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 10: were in the minds of the FBI agents sort of 277 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 10: insufficiently curious upon subsequent evidence, which was the two thousand 278 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 10: and six murder, that maybe he was involved. 279 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: After reviewing the case in detail, authorities in Belgium were 280 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 1: not convinced that Mayo Jerlik was the butcher of Moss. 281 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,640 Speaker 1: He could never be placed in Moss at the time 282 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: of the murders, and police believed he'd been outside of 283 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: Belgium when some of the crimes were committed. No proof 284 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 1: of this was ever shown to the FBI, leading them 285 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 1: to still question Smayo's involvement. In our extensive review of 286 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: the case, it seems highly unlikely that Smayo Gerlik is 287 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: the butcher of Moss. Not only are police confident that 288 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 1: he wasn't there when some of the murders took place, 289 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 1: but as you've heard, we believe the perpetrator spent time 290 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 1: around the central station area of Moss, and that he 291 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 1: must have been known by or was familiar to the victims. 292 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: Smayo had never been identified as someone who knew any 293 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: of the victims. Alain Cardon, the Clerk of the investigating 294 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 1: judge in Belgium who I spoke to earlier, explains. 295 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 7: He was a serious person of interest. This line of 296 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 7: investigation followed a certain amount of time until the points 297 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 7: that after all of the investigations possible, we concluded that 298 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 7: it couldn't be him. We had to verify everything, including 299 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,679 Speaker 7: his timeline in Belgium because it traveled a lot, but 300 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 7: he was eliminated because of lack of proof. 301 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: Nonetheless, Smayo Jerlik was eventually tracked down and and arrested 302 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: for the murder of Mary Beale in Brooklyn. 303 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 10: Schmeda moves from Belgium in the mid nineties, I think 304 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 10: ninety six ish and he returns to his ancestral home 305 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 10: in the former Yugoslavia, and the authorities in Montenegro, working 306 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 10: very closely with the FBI, arrested Smandriashrlik and tried him 307 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 10: remotely for the murder of Mary Beale in New York 308 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 10: in nineteen ninety and ultimately convicted him for that murder, 309 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 10: and he was sentenced to twelve years in prison. And 310 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 10: through a extraordinary fixer who I've worked with on multiple 311 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 10: stories in the former Yugoslavia and in that region, was 312 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 10: able to gain access to the prison and with a 313 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 10: New York Times magazine photographer and this fixer, and the 314 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 10: three of us went into the prison and interviewed Schmeo 315 00:20:55,119 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 10: for about an hour. And it was eerie and very 316 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 10: very unsettling experience because at this point I knew that 317 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:10,160 Speaker 10: he had already been convicted, even though he denied it, 318 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 10: of murdering Mary Beale, and not just murdering Mary Beale, 319 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 10: but and dismembering her body. And then, you know, I 320 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 10: ultimately asked him what no one had asked him before, 321 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 10: which was as to whether he was also responsible for 322 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 10: these other murders in Belgium and Albania. And I asked 323 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 10: him and he denied it, and he said that that 324 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 10: it was destiny. And I was like, you know, what 325 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 10: do you mean destiny. He's like, well, it's my it's 326 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 10: my destiny to be accused, and he, you know, he 327 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 10: was dismissive, but like I said, in the most vacuous 328 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 10: and unconvincing of manners. And I do remember when we left, 329 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,640 Speaker 10: the photographer who I was with, who has photographed some 330 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,119 Speaker 10: of the most awful war zones in the nineties, and 331 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 10: he just said that was among the most terrifying conversations 332 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 10: that I've ever witnessed. We felt like we were in 333 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 10: the presence of someone who was going to the grave 334 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 10: with with nightmarish secrets. 335 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: Smaiyo Jerlik may not have been the Butcher of Moss, 336 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 1: but his known and suspected crimes earned him a different moniker, 337 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: the Bronx Butcher. Our team investigating the case holds regular 338 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: zoom calls to divide up work and follow up on 339 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: various leads. This week, Fred provided an update on what 340 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: he's learned about the DNA that was extracted from a 341 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,640 Speaker 1: strand of hair from one of the trash bags and 342 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: partially matched to Shesai. Okay, so Craig, could you say 343 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 1: that in English real quick? Please? 344 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 5: Yes, this simple was entered into the DNA database for 345 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 5: compar reason that no direct match was phoned. 346 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: So just the other day we weren't even sure if 347 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: it was tested against gizls DNA specifically. Do you know 348 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 1: if it was. 349 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,640 Speaker 5: Yes, they didn't find any direct match. 350 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 11: God, that's such a bummer because I really thought we 351 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 11: had something there. What I don't understand is that if 352 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 11: you if you find an unidentified DNA profile that could 353 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 11: be anyone anywhere in the world technically, and it hit 354 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 11: on this woman living in most in nineteen ninety six, 355 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,919 Speaker 11: actually very close to where the crime scenes took place. 356 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 11: Also kind of in a strange circumstances, you know. So 357 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 11: I just don't understand. It just seems too strange to 358 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,439 Speaker 11: me that they thought it was a match, they had 359 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 11: a partial match, and then suddenly it's not a match. 360 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. 361 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 5: But when they carried out this research resulting in a 362 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 5: list of one hundred and fifty genetic profiles. 363 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 11: Right, so they weren't searching, they weren't searching like everywhere. 364 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 11: They were kind of narrowing their search on us. 365 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 10: Yeah. 366 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the investigators were based on what we've learned, 367 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: it was a restricted search of profiles, meaning that they 368 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: weren't searching for partial matches everywhere in the world, but 369 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: rather casting a targeted net. On one hand, it's disappointing, 370 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: but on the other hand, I'm encouraged that police were 371 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: able to isolate and test the strand of hair from 372 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 1: the gruesome evidence of thirty seven different body parts and 373 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: fifteen different trash backs, and it means that they have 374 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: at least one unidentified profile mixed with the remains. Any 375 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: future match of this profile could lead to a number 376 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: of avenues, ranging from another victim, to an accomplice or 377 00:24:51,240 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: even the perpetrator. The Gounia Valencia was the as confirmed 378 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,399 Speaker 1: victim of the Butcher of Monts. Apart from her skull 379 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 1: and pieces of vertebrae, the rest of her remains were 380 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: never found. The murder stopped after mid nineteen ninety seven. 381 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 1: To this day, there's only been one arrest in the case, 382 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: that of Leopold Bogart discussed in the previous episode, who 383 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: is cleared and released shortly after his apprehension. According to 384 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: Belgian law, statute of limitation for murder is thirty years. 385 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: If charges are not laid in the next fourteen months 386 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: from the time of this recording, the Butcher of Man's 387 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: case will be closed indefinitely. This means that even if 388 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 1: the perpetrator were to come forward and confess after the fact, 389 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: he could not be charged. Technically, the investigation by Belgian 390 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: authorities is never stopped and is still active today, but 391 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,919 Speaker 1: as far as we know, there's very little activity on 392 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: the file. However, thanks to Morgan's painstaking work, we've identified 393 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: a new person of interest. You'll recall that the first 394 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: victim we covered in this series was Jacqueline Leclaire, who 395 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: went missing just before Christmas in nineteen ninety six. Shortly 396 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 1: before her murder, she'd mentioned to her sister that she 397 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: kept bumping into a mysterious man randomly, and that she 398 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,439 Speaker 1: thought he might be following her, or at least finding 399 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: excuses to bump into her. And off the record discussions 400 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: with former police officers, we learned that this man was 401 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 1: never identified. Our team has spent countless hours trying to 402 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 1: put a name on this mystery man, and just recently, 403 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,919 Speaker 1: Morgan made a breakthrough, sending us down a path of 404 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:01,120 Speaker 1: unexpected connections and coincidence is so good, Larry that they're 405 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: impossible to ignore. Next time on season two of La 406 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: manstre I'm always suspicious of people who are a little 407 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: too clean, too polished, and you don't really know who 408 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 1: they are. 409 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 3: He was someone who was always very well dressed in 410 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 3: his early sixties. He spoke eloquently and his French was impeccable. 411 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,199 Speaker 3: He calls himself a medium, and it's true that he 412 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,360 Speaker 3: was able to gain the trust of the people who 413 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 3: knew him and consulted with him, And we know that 414 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,360 Speaker 3: he knew several of the victims. 415 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 5: Jacqueline. 416 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 3: We already know that he knew Jacqueline. 417 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 4: Without a doubt. The man that she had met several 418 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 4: times is the man who killed her. Mister, but it's 419 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 4: not Do you understand lidipussy to kill five women and 420 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 4: cut them up? Do you realize he had to have 421 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 4: a special place to do that. 422 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,120 Speaker 12: So the perpetrator is inserting himself in an investigation when 423 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 12: he's looking for controlling the narratives and monitoring progress. This 424 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 12: is really important for him because then he can adapt. Yeah, 425 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 12: for example, the BTK got involved in the investigation. 426 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: Le Montre is a production of Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts, hosted, written, 427 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: and executive produced by me Matt Graves, Donald Albright, and 428 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: Payne Lindsay are executive producers on the behalf of Tenderfoot TV, 429 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: with producer Makeup and Vanity Said. Matt Frederick and Trevor 430 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: Young are executive producers on the behalf of iHeart Podcasts. 431 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: Originally music by Jay Ragsdale, sound design and master by 432 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: Cooper Skinner, Cover design by Byron McCoy and Trevor Eiler. 433 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: La Monstre includes archival audio from Sonema RTBF Archives. Special 434 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: thanks to Aren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, the 435 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: Nord Group and our active investigation team Morgen van Lehrberg, 436 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: Fredrich Lauer, xervid Com and Annan Gardon, as well as 437 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 1: the teams at iHeart Podcasts and Tenderfoot TV. Find us 438 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: on social media at Monster Underscore pod For more podcasts 439 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: like Lea Monstre, search Tenderfoot TV in your podcast app 440 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: or visit Tenderfoot TV. Ready to keep listening, remember you 441 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: can binge the rest of the season right now with 442 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Plus. 443 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: You'll get exclusive bonus episodes and ad free listening. So 444 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: head to Apple Podcasts, search iHeart True Crime Plus and 445 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: subscribe today.