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Speaker 1: Hike and everybody. I'm Dan Horde and this is the

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Speaker 1: Bengals Booth Podcast, You Don't Live in Cleveland Edition. If

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Speaker 1: we get you set for the next to last game

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Speaker 1: of the year between the six and eight Bengals and

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Speaker 1: the six, seven and one Browns in Cleveland's first Energy Stadium,

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Speaker 1: coming up, my broadcast partner Dave Laughham joins me to

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Speaker 1: discuss anything and everything Bengals related, including the team's biggest

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Speaker 1: needs going forward and an offensive lineman's explanation for why

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Speaker 1: Christian Westerman isn't playing. We'll hear what Drake Kirkpatrick had

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Speaker 1: to say when asked the following question, what does Brown's

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Speaker 1: quarterback Baker Mayfield do best? His answer made me laugh,

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Speaker 1: perhaps you will too. And this week's Know the Faux segment,

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Speaker 1: we'll get the lowdown on the Browns from one of

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Speaker 1: my favorite broadcasters in the league, Cleveland's excitable Jim Donovan.

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Speaker 1: And last, but not least, we'll talk to one of

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Speaker 1: the best national reporters covering the NFL, Alex Marvez from

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Speaker 1: Sirius XM NFL Radio. We'll discuss the Bengals coaching situation

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Speaker 1: and Alex will share his pick for who the Bengal

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Speaker 1: should hire if they elect to make a coaching change

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Speaker 1: at the end of the year. Emphasis on if all

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Speaker 1: of that is straight ahead. But first, here's a quick

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Speaker 1: reminder that you can have the latest edition of this

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Speaker 1: podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, or computer by

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Speaker 1: subscribing on iTunes, Stitcher, or pod Bean. It's the greatest

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Speaker 1: invention since the hang on the door basketball hoop. I

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Speaker 1: think I got my unofficial start as a play by

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Speaker 1: play announcer describing the make believe basketball games I played

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Speaker 1: in my childhood bedroom on one of those clip on

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Speaker 1: the top of the door basketball hoops. Many years later,

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Speaker 1: I hear my twelve year old son doing the same thing,

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Speaker 1: and one of the items on his Christmas list this

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Speaker 1: year is a version of one of those hoops with

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Speaker 1: what looks like a glass packboard. I hope Santa brings

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Speaker 1: them one. Let's get to football. After snapping a five

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Speaker 1: game losing streak by beating the Oakland Raiders last week,

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Speaker 1: the Bengals will look for their second straight win against

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Speaker 1: the no longer pitiful Cleveland Browns. Browns fans have suffered

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Speaker 1: through ten straight losing seasons, winning five or fewer games

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Speaker 1: in nine of those ten years. But Cleveland already has

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Speaker 1: six victories this season, including a thirty five to twenty

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Speaker 1: win over the Bengals just four weeks ago. The Browns

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Speaker 1: have a great young nucleus, led by the number one

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Speaker 1: pick in the draft each of the last two years,

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Speaker 1: pass rusher Miles Garrett and quarterback Baker Mayfield. But what

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Speaker 1: about the Bengals nucleus? Is it good enough to compete

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Speaker 1: for a title in the AFC North next year? That's

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Speaker 1: where I begin this week's conversation with my broadcast partner

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Speaker 1: Dave Lapham. The Bengals have officially been eliminated from the playoffs.

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Speaker 1: Their win last week hurt their draft position. They dropped

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Speaker 1: from eleventh to thirteenth. Here's my question, lap how good

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Speaker 1: is the roster for whomever is coaching this team next year?

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Speaker 1: I think it's good. You know, I'm going to go

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Speaker 1: buy what my sources that I trust around the league

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Speaker 1: that I talked to before the season. Everybody's saying, why

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Speaker 1: our coaching staff feels like we might have forty players.

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Speaker 1: They feel like you guys have forty seven. Our coaches

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Speaker 1: might feel like we have forty five. They feel like

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Speaker 1: you guys have fifty, So I mean, I think the players,

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Speaker 1: the roster depth, and the roster talent is good. Is good.

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Speaker 1: What did people think about Chicago before they made the

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Speaker 1: coaching change. What do people think out in LA with

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Speaker 1: the Rams before they made the coaching change. Basically the

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Speaker 1: same players. You're going to change some. There's gonna be

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Speaker 1: another draft, another free agency. But I think the core

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Speaker 1: of this football team when healthy, the biggest problem this

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Speaker 1: year is it's been decimated by injury. When healthy, pretty

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Speaker 1: good core. Lap give me their three biggest needs going forward.

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Speaker 1: Offensive line talent needs to be improved. I think, honestly,

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Speaker 1: Frank Pollock maximized the talent he did. They played as

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Speaker 1: well as they can play, and that's a tribute to

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Speaker 1: him for them still to be averaging, you know, during

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Speaker 1: the top ten in sacks allowed going into this Cleveland

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Speaker 1: game and sacks per pass attempt allowed going into this

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Speaker 1: Cleveland game, pretty darned good. And they're averaging four point

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Speaker 1: six a rush, still twelfth in the NFL. So their efficiency,

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Speaker 1: they're playing well some totally their parts is better than

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Speaker 1: any guy by far, and that's coaching. So they do

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Speaker 1: need to upgrade the talent there. They need to upgrade

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Speaker 1: the talent a linebacker. There's no question about that. In

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Speaker 1: today's NFL linebackers level is being attacked, and it's being attacked,

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Speaker 1: you know, multiple ways. And the Bengals right now are

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Speaker 1: hurting in that category being able to hold up in

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Speaker 1: that end of it. Those those are two big ones.

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Speaker 1: And I guess if I had another drug again, this

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Speaker 1: is all based on who comes back healthy and who doesn't.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't mind seeing another big bodied defensive tackle in

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Speaker 1: there as well in the rotation, just another guy to

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Speaker 1: add to the mix. You know, Ryan Glasgow is playing well.

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Speaker 1: You know, he went down two poles, starting to show

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Speaker 1: that he could play, he went down, So, like I said,

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Speaker 1: with injuries, may not be as big a need. But

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Speaker 1: you know, I think that their pass rush would look

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Speaker 1: a lot different if Carl Lawson were playing. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think I think a lot of things would look

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Speaker 1: a lot different if all their players were playing. But

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Speaker 1: during the course of the season, those are the three

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Speaker 1: areas in my mind that I would I would really target.

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Speaker 1: Two weeks ago, Christian Westerman played forty two snaps against

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Speaker 1: the Chargers and it was clearly pushing people around in

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Speaker 1: the running game last week, not a single snap against Oakland.

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Speaker 1: Explain why you great phraseology pushing people around the running game.

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Speaker 1: I mean he and Billy Price had some legendary double

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Speaker 1: team blocks. I mean they were knocking the defensive lineman

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Speaker 1: back five yards. You couldn't even fall down. I mean

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Speaker 1: he was pushed back so quickly, couldn't even fall in

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Speaker 1: the ground. That's only one part of the game. And

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Speaker 1: Westerman is as good as there is in my mind,

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Speaker 1: and almost anybody's guard play in terms of guy on

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Speaker 1: him boom, knocking him off the football and driving him

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Speaker 1: down the field. They play him goal line defense because

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Speaker 1: he's a load. You can't move him. He moves people.

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Speaker 1: He moves people against their will. He doesn't let them

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Speaker 1: move him. That's Christian Westerman. The problem is they move.

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Speaker 1: Guys will move around, guys will slant, twist, stunt, and

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Speaker 1: that's not His strength is picking up that movement. I

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Speaker 1: mean he's great with you know, something right in front

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Speaker 1: of him, and he knows he has to go destroy that.

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Speaker 1: See can destroy boom. I'm going to get that. But

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Speaker 1: there's a lot more to it, and that's where he

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Speaker 1: struggles a little bit. Same in pass protection. You know,

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Speaker 1: like a guy that's a quick interior defensive tackle. It's

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Speaker 1: got you know, a quick rip, rip, quick swim, quick whatever.

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Speaker 1: You can't bull rush him. Anybody that tries to bull

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Speaker 1: rush from shame on you. You're not going to move

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Speaker 1: the guy an inch. So to me, the fact that

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Speaker 1: he's their other defensive lineman when he's active to be

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Speaker 1: in the goal line defense tells me exactly what his

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Speaker 1: strengths are. And then of course his weaknesses are that that,

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Speaker 1: you know, the movement stuff. Plus the other part of

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Speaker 1: it is you have to be really up to speed

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Speaker 1: mentally on the simons. If you're blocking a guy five

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Speaker 1: yards down the field, but it's the wrong guy and

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Speaker 1: the guy you're supposed to be blocking is involved making

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Speaker 1: a play because the teammates couldn't adjust quickly enough, you

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Speaker 1: know that hurts you. And really in the next two

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Speaker 1: games Cleveland and Pittsburgh they run million fronts. The biggest

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Speaker 1: thing that you have to have as a guy like

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Speaker 1: Clint bull and who's seen it before, can recognize communicated

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Speaker 1: to other teammates. Corty Glenn a new, you know, new

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Speaker 1: guy to the franchise at left tackle, where at left

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Speaker 1: guard and Billy Price att center on the road against

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Speaker 1: those two defenses, crowd noise could have bowling in there

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Speaker 1: to kind of, you know, be a traffic cop. That's

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Speaker 1: that's that's the big thing right there. You know what

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Speaker 1: it sounded like to me, It sounded like you were

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Speaker 1: describing a baseball player that couldn't hit a curve. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: one trick, pony. You know. It's like, you know, you

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Speaker 1: have to you have to be able to do a

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Speaker 1: lot of things. That's I know, I know that's what

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Speaker 1: put me to the shot putting the discus. I got

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Speaker 1: my first good Uncle Charlie, that old doucer who baby

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Speaker 1: I could turn a fastball. But man, once they started

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Speaker 1: that old kneed beender, it's like, Oh, throw the shot

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Speaker 1: put throw the discus, let's go. Jeff Driscoll got his

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Speaker 1: first to win as a starting quarterback last week, but

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Speaker 1: he also had his worst game at least statistically, completing

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Speaker 1: just forty two percent of his throws with a passer

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Speaker 1: rating at fifty one point three. Was it Oakland's defense

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Speaker 1: or just a lousy day for a young quarterback making

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Speaker 1: his third NFL start? You know, I think it's always

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Speaker 1: a combination of both a little bit. But I think

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Speaker 1: I think it might have been, you know, a bad

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Speaker 1: day and day for Jeff. I think the worst thing

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Speaker 1: that could have happened to him was turning it over

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Speaker 1: on that very first deep ball attempt. Because you don't

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Speaker 1: have a whole lot of history, you don't have a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of snaps, and you know, you're a human being.

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Speaker 1: It's like, oh man, that was a shot. I had

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Speaker 1: an opportunity there. He just didn't see that safety. He

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Speaker 1: tried to lead John Ross to the middle of the

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Speaker 1: field more and didn't see that safety coming over and

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Speaker 1: under threw it as well. So that one, you know,

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Speaker 1: you have to bounce back from. I do think though,

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Speaker 1: and I asked him about this because teammates mentioned this

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Speaker 1: to me after the game that you know, during the

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Speaker 1: week of practice he was struggling with the right shoulder injury.

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Speaker 1: He got blasted in that football game against the Chargers.

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Speaker 1: He get hit, really, he got stung pretty well, and obviously,

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Speaker 1: you know, his answer to me was exactly what I

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Speaker 1: expect from a pro like him. I was able to practice,

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Speaker 1: I was able to play. No, it wasn't a problem.

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Speaker 1: I've been hitting the shoulders and even blocking people. It's

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Speaker 1: like when you normally you just can extend and really

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Speaker 1: jam and free movement, but when you have a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a shoulder problem, feels like they're standing the joint.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's just that little grinding sense. It's not

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Speaker 1: like it's just not right. And it was a throwing shoulder,

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Speaker 1: so you know, not all of a sudden when you're

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Speaker 1: ripping it. It just doesn't feel it just doesn't feel right.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that that was the reason that

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Speaker 1: he was high and incomplete on a lot of his throws.

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Speaker 1: Might have been a little bit of a factor, though,

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Speaker 1: So I'm hoping maybe with another week under his belt

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Speaker 1: of healing and all that he'll throw the ball a

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Speaker 1: little bit better, because I've been impressed with his accuracy overall.

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Speaker 1: You know, hopefully that was just you know, an outlier

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Speaker 1: and maybe you know, there are multiple reasons, maybe just

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Speaker 1: a little bit off physically, you know, he just wasn't accurately.

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Speaker 1: Every quarterback has games like that. Maybe a little bit

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Speaker 1: about what Paul Gunther was doing, but hopefully the accurate

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Speaker 1: accuracy is back. Because Greg Williams this week up in Cleveland,

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Speaker 1: He's going to see things he hasn't seen before. And

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Speaker 1: you know the biggest challenge for him this week is

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Speaker 1: being mentally sharp. Physically sharp will help, obviously, but man,

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Speaker 1: he's got to see it before it happened. Really. Lap

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Speaker 1: four weeks ago, the Browns beat the Bengals thirty five

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Speaker 1: to twenty at Paul Brown Stadium, and it really wasn't

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Speaker 1: that close. It was twenty eight nothing Cleveland in the

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Speaker 1: second quarter before the Browns got conservative on offense and

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Speaker 1: tried to run out the clock instead of run up

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Speaker 1: the score. How do the Bengals give the Browns a

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Speaker 1: game or even pull off the upset this Sunday. Well,

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Speaker 1: two things that Cleveland did in that first game was

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Speaker 1: did not allow a quarterback sack and had no turnovers.

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Speaker 1: When you go post a goose egg and both of

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Speaker 1: those departments, you have a chance to win big, and

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Speaker 1: they did. I also think Dan the defense is much

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Speaker 1: different than when the Cleveland Browns saw in that encounter

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Speaker 1: because they just the New Orleans game was atrocious and

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Speaker 1: they fired their defensive coordinator, but it had been building.

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Speaker 1: They go to Baltimore very unusual. It's a college type offense.

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Speaker 1: They're playing cover two against a quarterback that's running it

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Speaker 1: down their throat with a running back. Didn't make quick

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Speaker 1: enough adjustment while you're playing cover two against that kind

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Speaker 1: of an offense. It was just it wasn't a good fit,

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Speaker 1: and they were highly criticized for it. So the next

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Speaker 1: game was Cleveland, and I think that they were staggered.

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Speaker 1: You know, they were taking a ten count standing ten count.

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Speaker 1: Now they've put together some pretty good a lot better

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Speaker 1: defensive performances. I think they're feeling much better about themselves

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Speaker 1: defensively in terms of players and confidence in what the

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Speaker 1: coach is presenting and simplification of their assignments and rules.

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Speaker 1: So I think they'll see a different Cincinnati Bengal defense

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Speaker 1: than they saw when they came out and went four

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Speaker 1: wide receivers, and the Bengals were like acted like they'd

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Speaker 1: never seen four wides before. It runs four wide receivers,

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Speaker 1: and I mean they did. They went through them like

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Speaker 1: a hot knife through butter. I remember one drive was

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Speaker 1: twelve or thirteen plays ninety six yards. Come on, now,

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Speaker 1: it was ridiculous. Every drive they had one short field

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Speaker 1: like for fifty one yard touchdown, one for ninety six

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Speaker 1: and everything in between. So I think they'll see a

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Speaker 1: different defensive performance. Hopefully the Bengals will build off that

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Speaker 1: pass rush they were generating. But this offensive line is

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Speaker 1: light years better than what the Oakland Raiders presented. The

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Speaker 1: Raiders didn't even have their starters in there. They had

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Speaker 1: two replacement guards. I mean it was pedestrian and Gino.

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Speaker 1: Atkins had a fourth quarter for the ages, three quarterback

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Speaker 1: sacks and nine snaps. That's ridiculous. After winning one game

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Speaker 1: over the last two years combined, the Browns could finish

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Speaker 1: with a winning record this year. If they beat the

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Speaker 1: Bengals this week and then win in Baltimore next week,

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Speaker 1: the Browns a Super Bowl contender as soon as next year.

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Speaker 1: I'll pump the brakes on that. I'll give them playoff

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Speaker 1: contender for sure, because they're contending now. You know, with

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Speaker 1: two weeks left in the season, they aren't eliminated. They've

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Speaker 1: lasted longer than the Bengals have in that process of elimination,

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Speaker 1: so obviously they're on the rise. And they have a quarterback.

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Speaker 1: I thought their roster was pretty good the last couple

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Speaker 1: of years. They just didn't have a quarterback. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it was it was a joke. How it wasn't just music,

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Speaker 1: cool chairs, it was a merry ground that was you know,

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Speaker 1: going at overdrive. It was ridiculous at the quarterback position.

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Speaker 1: Now they got one and amazing how it makes everybody

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Speaker 1: else around that quarterback better and the players list a boat.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Baker Mayfield's lifted everybody else's performances and that's

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Speaker 1: what it's all about. So I think they've tasted the

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Speaker 1: sweet nectar of victory more times obviously this year than

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Speaker 1: they have in the past few recently. But I think

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Speaker 1: they have to experience making the playoffs first. I think

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Speaker 1: it's very tough after what they went through, and if

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Speaker 1: they don't qualify the playoffs this year, which is probably

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Speaker 1: going to happen, I don't happen after send them when

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Speaker 1: the Bengal spank them and make restitution for the game

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Speaker 1: down here in Cincinnati. But you know they've taken another step.

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Speaker 1: I think the next step would be qualified for the

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Speaker 1: playoffs and then very rarely after what they went through

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Speaker 1: to the first time you qualify the playoffs, you make

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Speaker 1: the run to the final. Thanks Lap, Baker Mayfield was

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Speaker 1: extremely impressive in his first start against the Bengals, going

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Speaker 1: seventeen for twenty two for two hundred and forty five

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Speaker 1: yards and three touchdowns. In the first half after building

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Speaker 1: a twenty eight nothing lead, Mayfield only attempted four passes

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Speaker 1: in the second half, and one of them was his

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Speaker 1: fourth touchdown. This week, Bengals cornerback Drake Kirkpatrick was asked

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Speaker 1: what Mayfield does best. Now, he's cool. You know, I'd

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Speaker 1: like to see that out of young guy. Man. He

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Speaker 1: definitely gets in guy's heads. And you know, now that's

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Speaker 1: what this game was about. You know, everybody is so

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Speaker 1: straight with the rules and stuff like that, but this

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Speaker 1: is a competitive game, you know, man, it is to

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Speaker 1: you know, it's a competitive nature to you know, just

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Speaker 1: to be aggressive and things like that. So you know,

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Speaker 1: he does a lot of good things getting out of pocket.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's short, so he's not it's gonna make

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Speaker 1: the best throws in the pockets or we know, we

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Speaker 1: know what we gotta do is all about. It is

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Speaker 1: going out there and doing it. You guys were able

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Speaker 1: to be playoffs spoilers in the last two weeks last year.

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Speaker 1: Is that a motivating thing at all this year? No?

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Speaker 1: I hate that. It gets on my nerves, you know,

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Speaker 1: I hate being spoilers or dispoiler that now I want

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Speaker 1: to make the playoffs and we didn't make it this year,

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Speaker 1: and you know there's something that I gotta go home

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Speaker 1: with another year without going to the playoffs. So that's

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Speaker 1: what it's about me. I don't care about spoiling nobody nothing.

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Speaker 1: I don't care about getting wings and none of it.

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Speaker 1: You don't mean none of me, and they don't help

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Speaker 1: me pay my bills. So went into So that's why

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Speaker 1: I'm doing to win and get to the playoffs. The

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Speaker 1: mansion of wings was a reference to last season, with

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Speaker 1: the Buffalo Bills sent the Bengals one hundred twenty dozen

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Speaker 1: chicken wings. Has it thank you for beating Baltimore in

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Speaker 1: the final game of the season to help Buffalo make

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Speaker 1: the playoffs for the first time in seventeen years. And

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Speaker 1: even if Drey doesn't want them, I'm hoping that the

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Speaker 1: Bengals beat Pittsburgh the final game of the season to

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Speaker 1: help Baltimore make the playoffs and that the Ravens send

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Speaker 1: a truckload of crab cakes to Paul Brown Stadium as

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Speaker 1: a thank you. Now, time for this week's No the

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Speaker 1: Faux segment. As we take a closer look at the

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Speaker 1: upcoming opponent. And this week our expert is the longtime

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Speaker 1: radio voice of the Cleveland Browns, Jim Donovan, who joined

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Speaker 1: lapping Me on the Bengals Game Plan Show. We've had

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Speaker 1: you on the show in the past when the Browns

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Speaker 1: were awful, and I always complimented you for never losing

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Speaker 1: your enthusiasm. I've said many times, if I ever teach

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Speaker 1: a course on broadcasting, you are going to be my

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Speaker 1: guest to talk about how to handle a team that

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Speaker 1: is struggling. But now that the Browns are really playing well,

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Speaker 1: how much fun are you having, Dah, I gotta tell

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Speaker 1: you it's a lot of fun, and it still is.

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Speaker 1: It's new for us. So even when you say setting

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Speaker 1: up the game on Sunday, the six seven and one

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Speaker 1: Cleveland Browns, I kind of flinch a little bit because

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Speaker 1: it's been so long since we've had that kind of

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Speaker 1: win total at this point this season. But it's been

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Speaker 1: a lot of fun. It really has. Everybody's having a

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Speaker 1: lot of fun. You know. People are you know, can't

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Speaker 1: wait till Sunday now to get down to the stadium

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Speaker 1: to see them play, and to see Baker Mayfield play

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Speaker 1: at quarterback. So there are a lot of things going

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Speaker 1: in the right direction right now for them, and it's

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Speaker 1: good to see. Question. You've putten around the Browns organization

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Speaker 1: a long time, been around the game of football for

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Speaker 1: a long time. I've been had a relationship with many

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Speaker 1: many players. Baker Mayfield is a natural born leader. Is

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Speaker 1: there anybody in your past that you've dealt with that

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Speaker 1: is similar in terms of the leadership and what they've

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Speaker 1: done for their football team than Baker Mayfield? Well, I

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Speaker 1: think the you know, Dave Um and you're right, he

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Speaker 1: really is. It's amazing to see how quickly everybody gravitated

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Speaker 1: to him, and it wasn't you know, there was nothing

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Speaker 1: fake about it. I mean it was very natural. And

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Speaker 1: people follow him and and he's so new to the league,

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Speaker 1: and he's so young to the position, at least at

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Speaker 1: the NFL level. It's been amazing to watch, you know.

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Speaker 1: I go back to when Cozar really had, you know,

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Speaker 1: was run on the Browns situation, but it was kind

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Speaker 1: of different because I'm sure you remember, I mean, Bernie

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Speaker 1: had Gary Danielson. They kind of led him into the

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Speaker 1: league at that time. But once Bernie got into when

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Speaker 1: he finally played in his first year late in the year,

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Speaker 1: and they made the run to the playoffs, and they

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Speaker 1: had Matt and Biner. You know, really there's the staple

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Speaker 1: of their offense that year. Bernie spoke out after they

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Speaker 1: lost the playoff games down in Miami and said, hey, listen,

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Speaker 1: the offense here is archaic. We have to learn to

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Speaker 1: throw the ball. And two weeks next, the next two

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Speaker 1: weeks they had Linda and Fodi came in to run

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Speaker 1: the offense as the offensive coordinator, and everything kind of

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Speaker 1: took off. But I would compare it to the way

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Speaker 1: Cozar came in and people so wanted to have a

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Speaker 1: quarterback that, you know, kind of took the Browns by

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Speaker 1: the rains and led them, And I kind of compare

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Speaker 1: what Mayfield's doing. I think Bill Baker's got a lot

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Speaker 1: more kind of natural athletic ability than Bernie did. Sure,

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Speaker 1: but the leadership skills are kind of the same. We

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Speaker 1: are talking to the radio voice of the Cleveland Browns,

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Speaker 1: Jim Donovan. I want to talk about Freddie Kitchens, the

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Speaker 1: offensive coordinator for the Browns after they fired Hugh Jackson

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Speaker 1: and Todd Haley. Every time I watched the Browns, I'm like, Wow,

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Speaker 1: that's creative. Where'd they come up with that? Have the Browns,

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Speaker 1: I mean, he'd never been an offensive coordinator before. Have

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Speaker 1: the Browns stumbled into like the next great offensive mind

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Speaker 1: in the NFL? Well, I don't know, Dan, That's a

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Speaker 1: really good question because when you asked Freddie Kitchens about it,

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Speaker 1: Freddie Kitchens was brought here by Todd Haley to run

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Speaker 1: that offense, and he's he really is a believer in

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Speaker 1: the offense that Todd Haley was bringing to the Browns,

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Speaker 1: And so I was I kind of wonder the same

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Speaker 1: thing that you're saying, is, you know, did he put

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Speaker 1: his own thumb print on this once he took over

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Speaker 1: or was It's just an evolution thing that maybe if

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Speaker 1: Todd Haley had continued on week by week, we would

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Speaker 1: have seen this thing grow. But it's been instantaneous since

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Speaker 1: he came in. Now, he's been very open minded with

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Speaker 1: the players. I mean, he kind of welcomes you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not like he has a formal suggestion box in

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Speaker 1: front of his front of his office, but he does

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Speaker 1: go to them, and I know he goes to Mayfield

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Speaker 1: and that's the relationship that has really clicked and You

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Speaker 1: can see it that they have a lot of fun

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Speaker 1: with each other. And you know, he says, hey, listen,

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Speaker 1: I go to Baker and say, hey, what do you

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Speaker 1: want to do? What do you what do you like here?

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Speaker 1: And it's not just Mayfield, it might be Landry or

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Speaker 1: it's Nick Chubb. What kind of runs do you like?

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Speaker 1: I think there's been kind of an open form and

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Speaker 1: I can imagine that that's a little bit more of

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Speaker 1: Freddie than it would have been Todd Haley, just knowing

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Speaker 1: a little bit about Todd Haley through his short stay here,

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Speaker 1: in his long stay in Pittsburgh and another spots. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's a real dilemma right now. We are

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Speaker 1: always worrying about something in Cleveland, Okay, even when the

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Speaker 1: Browns are starting to win. Now we're worried about, Hey,

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Speaker 1: what do we do with Freddie Kitchens? What do you

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Speaker 1: do with this head coaching situation here? You know, the

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Speaker 1: interim situation of both Kitchens and even above him in

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Speaker 1: Greg Williams. And you know, what, what do you do

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Speaker 1: now these guys are winning? Do you go out and

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Speaker 1: bring new people in? And if you bring new people in,

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Speaker 1: do you try and marry Kitchens? And Williams into their staff.

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Speaker 1: So it's you know, that is probably for the next

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks, after these next two games. But boy,

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Speaker 1: Freddie has done a great job. And the offense looks

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, exclusive, and they've never looked that

428
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,000
Speaker 1: way in a long time. Well, they came out and

429
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 1: a four receiver set down here in Cincinnati, and the

430
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,400
Speaker 1: Bengals acted like they'd never seen one before. And when

431
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 1: I twenty eight nothing quickly. I mean, they hadn't shown

432
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 1: that look very much. And they came out and caught

433
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 1: the Bengals with their pants down on that bad boy

434
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 1: John Dorsey, John Dorsey is going to be the guy

435
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,919
Speaker 1: making some of those decisions you're talking about. And this

436
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,400
Speaker 1: guy is a blue collar, you know, green bay Ron Wolf.

437
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 1: Discipul Rebuild the Sleeping Giant was his motto as mantra.

438
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 1: And how about his first draft, Baker Mayfield, Denzel Ward's

439
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:10,919
Speaker 1: a little nicked up right now. And Nick Chubb, how

440
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 1: do you like me so far? I mean not bad?

441
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 1: Huh yeah, I mean as good a draft as I've

442
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 1: ever seen them have. Uh. And and that goes even

443
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 1: you know, old Browns, New Browns, uh, you know. And

444
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 1: and the new Browns since ninety nine, Dave. I mean,

445
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:29,360
Speaker 1: they've had amazing and you know, amazingly high draft choices

446
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,360
Speaker 1: that have just bombed out. And so I mean, he

447
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 1: really hit it out of the park here, he really did.

448
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 1: I mean, their their draft is coming up big. I

449
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 1: think you're gonna see Ward play on Sunday. He's back

450
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,159
Speaker 1: in there after having a concussion and being out the

451
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 1: last couple of weeks. But I think he's gonna play

452
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 1: this Sunday. But I mean, you know, he's a terrific player.

453
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: Uh Nick Chubb has just been I mean sensational, and

454
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 1: they made the right move. It looks like, you know,

455
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 1: Dorsey was very frustrated that they were, you know, that

456
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 1: they were using Carlo's hide so much and that they

457
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 1: weren't using Chubb. He was only getting a couple of

458
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 1: charries a game, and so he moved Hide and is

459
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 1: in the trade and then put you know, that elevated Chubb.

460
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,880
Speaker 1: And Chubb's been sensational, he really has. I mean, he's

461
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: a blend of power and yet he's got very very

462
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 1: breakaway speed in the middle of runs. I mean he

463
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 1: can just run away from people. The only pick that

464
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,360
Speaker 1: right now is a question mark. Is the and this

465
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 1: would really make it a BOFO draft is if this kid,

466
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,199
Speaker 1: Austin Corvitt, who they took out a Nevada, if he

467
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,360
Speaker 1: can come in and get a spot on the offensive

468
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: line because he was the first pick in the second round,

469
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: he was thirty third overall, and the offensive line just

470
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: hasn't been able to accept him yet. He is projected

471
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 1: down the road when everything kind of plays itself out,

472
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 1: maybe as early as next year, that he would be

473
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: their next center, and that they're trying to get him

474
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 1: ready to play center. But that's the only pick right

475
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 1: now that It has not really you know, been a

476
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: big big, you know, been a big hit. But up

477
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: at the top, it's been great, and Mayfield was John

478
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 1: Dorsey was totally committed to Mayfield even when he was

479
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 1: unemployed after he had left Kansas City. He said, boy,

480
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm really fixated on this kid, and and

481
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 1: it's been a it's been just a franchise changer for them.

482
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 1: He knew what he was talking about there. Chub made

483
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: as good a catch on that touchdown catch against the

484
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: Bengals as I've seen. I mean, you know, control the

485
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: ball on the helmet and that was a hell of

486
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 1: a play by that kid. Yeah, it was David Tyreelay,

487
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 1: wasn't it a little? It was super cool. It was

488
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: I don't think that they knew that he was, you know,

489
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: as a depth catching the ball out of the backfield

490
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: as he has been. But he's been very, very good

491
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: at that. And you know, he's he's totally different than Mayfield.

492
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: Mayfield is. You know, he's a talker. Chub is not

493
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 1: a talker. He lets the talking going room on the field.

494
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: And they're a good blend. Their roommates on the road,

495
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: they were roommates at training camp, and it's night and

496
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: day their personalities. A couple more questions for the voice

497
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 1: of the Browns, Jim Donovan. As we mentioned at the top, Clive,

498
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: it is six seven and one, still mathematically alive for

499
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: the playoffs, but it would take a miracle to get in.

500
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: But as you go back and look at the course

501
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 1: of the season, Week one had a field goal to

502
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: beat the Steelers, blocked finishing in time. Week two against

503
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: the Saints, two miss field goals, two miss pats, or

504
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: you would have won in New Orleans. A couple of

505
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: weeks after that against the Raiders. Oakland gets a touchdown

506
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: in a two point conversion with thirty seconds to go

507
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 1: to four so OT and wins the game in overtime.

508
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 1: The Browns probably should be nine and six and in

509
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: first place. I mean, is there is there an element

510
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: of man, this is good. Six seven one is a

511
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: big improvement. But we should be making playoff plans. Yeah,

512
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: you're you know, you're right. I mean, I win as

513
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 1: your details. You're right, you know, yes, there's no doubt

514
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,199
Speaker 1: about it. You look back on it right now, and

515
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 1: at least in those first couple of weeks, I mean,

516
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,679
Speaker 1: you know, and it was it was really kind of

517
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: the line by Hugh Jackson that he had to say

518
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 1: all too many times was, I mean, we just don't

519
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 1: know how to finish. And that happened in the Steeler game,

520
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 1: and definitely down to New Orleans. I mean, they played

521
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: when you look at what New Orleans has done this

522
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: year and especially in the superdown right, I mean, and

523
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: the way that Brons played, I mean, and believe me

524
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: it was legit. They had played very well and defensively

525
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: they were magnificent. They really had Drew Brees guessing that

526
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: day and to let that one off the hook and

527
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,959
Speaker 1: then the one in Oakland. I mean that was not

528
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: only the touchdown, the two point conversion. Yeah, but they

529
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: had a fourteen point lead, you know at the start

530
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: of the fourth quarter going into that game on the

531
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: road with Mayfield really, you know, in his first real

532
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 1: start in the NFL. Yeah, you look at that, and

533
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: I have to be honest. There's another game too, Tampa Bay.

534
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: They kind of let one get away and overtime there

535
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: they came up with an interception on the buccaneer side

536
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: of the field, and overtime that they just needed one

537
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: first down. They did a field goal try and win

538
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: that game. So, you know, I think it's all a process,

539
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 1: and you know, I think that I think a lot

540
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 1: of people around here though right now need to just

541
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: take a deep breath enjoy the ride. It's been amazing

542
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: after going you know one and fifteen, oh and sixteen

543
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,959
Speaker 1: in the last two years. And I think that the

544
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: next big thing now will be to make this thing

545
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: continue to roll the right way. There'll be a lot

546
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: expected of them now next year. They won't be a

547
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 1: surprise to anybody, and the improvement is going to have

548
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: to continue for them because there's still a lot of

549
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,400
Speaker 1: work to do. The Browns do a really fun thing

550
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: with Jim Donovan. They have a camera on him in

551
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: the booth, I think, at all times, and will often

552
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: tweet out video of him calling big plays so that

553
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: you can see just how excited he gets. He is

554
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: a fantastic broadcaster. Last, but not least, we also had

555
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: the opportunity this week to visit with Sirius XM NFL

556
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: radio host Alex Marvez. Alex, how are you? I'm doing

557
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: bet in the Bengals. I think you got you gotta

558
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: like the Raiders win. I mean, listen, that's encouraging and

559
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: stop some of the bleeding for right now. But guys,

560
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: disappointing season unfortunate, especially after such a good start. We

561
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: go limping into the new year with the same questions

562
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: as we did at the end of twenty seventeen. What

563
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: direction is this franchise headed? Who will be the head

564
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: coach next season? Yeah, that's obviously the big elephant in

565
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: the room. You know, you're right. I mean, the Bengals

566
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: are four and one, a minute and fifteen seconds away

567
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: from going five and one, two and on the division,

568
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: in control of everything, and have spiraled to this situation.

569
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: And you know, injuries are always people think, oh that's

570
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 1: an excuse. There are a fact, there are reasons, but

571
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: it's not just all injuries. There's there's a bunch of things.

572
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: The thing to me is how poorly the defense played

573
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: for such a prolonged period of time. If anybody told

574
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: me that the Bengals defense was going to be this

575
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: horrific before the season started in training camp, I would

576
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: have said, what are you smoking? Right exactly? I mean,

577
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: thing that's so mystifying that Tarrell Austin, despite his departure

578
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: in Detroit, you know you talked that one up to Hey,

579
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: new administrations coming in. Matt Patricia is a defensive oriented

580
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: head coach. He's going to be the one who is,

581
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: you know, handling that part of everything, right, so you

582
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: understand if he moves on from Tarrell Austin, so okay,

583
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: we roll on from there. But then, you know, you

584
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: just get some some things, just the bleeding against New

585
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: Orleans and you know, just some things that you scratch

586
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: your head. Again. I get it with the injury part,

587
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: especially at the linebacker position. Losing Nick Vigil was a

588
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: big deal. But you know what teams adjusted. There's a

589
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 1: Look at the Washington Redskins right now. They just want

590
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: to end with Josh Johnson as a quarterback. Are you kidding?

591
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 1: Nobody cares how you win, just win. And unfortunately, this

592
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: Bengals team never came up with answers. And while the

593
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: defense is doing a little bit better now, too little,

594
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: too late. And look, the Bengals put themselves a little

595
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,719
Speaker 1: bit in this position as well. You know, why are

596
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,239
Speaker 1: you sticking with Vant's perfect? I mean, I get it.

597
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: And I've talked to Marvin Lewis about this, and I'm

598
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: sure he's answered the question the same way to folks,

599
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: because you know, Vantes knows this defense. There's an intensity.

600
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: I mean, the guy's a tail kicker, right, I mean,

601
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,239
Speaker 1: and he adds a ferocity to this defense. I get it.

602
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: But if you can't count on the guy, whether it's

603
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 1: because of injuries or whether it's because he does himself in,

604
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: you know, you know, in terms of his behavior on

605
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: the field, well what are we doing here? You know?

606
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 1: And it's just sort of the same old, same ol

607
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: And it gets a little bit tired after a while, unfortunately,

608
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:16,719
Speaker 1: And listen, it breaks my heart to say all this,

609
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: quite honestly, because as you know, I have such an

610
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: affinity for this organization, the people on top, all the

611
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: way down. But man, you know, look, you know, at

612
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: some point you got to ask yourself enough enough. Yeah,

613
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: the best ability is availability, and he had not been available.

614
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: Alex Marvez is our guest. You can follow him on

615
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,479
Speaker 1: Twitter at Alex Marvez mr v e Z. While you

616
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: were on the Bengals beat, Alex, you developed a great

617
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: relationship with Mike Brown. Would you be surprised if he

618
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: retained Marvin Lewis again or replaced him with Hugh Jackson? Neither,

619
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: you know. But the question is who's calling the shots

620
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: in the organization. As Mike going have passed the torch

621
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: to Katie Blackburn and try Blackburn, are they going to

622
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: be the ones making decisions moving ahead? And do they

623
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: share Mike Brown's vision? You know that that's a fair

624
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: question asked because I really believe that, you know, Mike

625
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: Hugh Jackson's retention after last season was based upon Mike

626
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: Brown wanting that familiarity. And you know, when I saw

627
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: earlier this season that Katie and Troy, you know, were

628
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: like sort of designated to speak to the media instead

629
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: of Mike. You know about the direction of the franchise

630
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: and some other things. It makes me, it makes me wonder,

631
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: is Mike going to be stepping away from the day

632
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: to day operations of this team, you know, and Willie

633
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: just you know, is that baton going to be passed

634
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 1: to Katie and Troy? And of course Mike would still

635
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: be around, but Mike would acquiesced to how they want

636
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: to run the franchise. And I think so much of

637
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: it is that, Listen, Mike is in his early eighties

638
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 1: right now. Does he really want to learn a new coach?

639
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: Probably not. That's why you have that Hugh Jackson factor.

640
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: And if there's any place that Hugh Jackson, the one

641
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: place I would say that Hugh Jackson could potentially get

642
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: a job again would be with the Cincinnati Bengals. You know.

643
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: The one thing too, with the Bengals, it doesn't seem

644
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: like they really care too much about public response. I mean,

645
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: that's been Mike Brown's you know, modus operandi ever since,

646
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: you know, the early nineteen nineties, when he took control

647
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: of the team following the passing of his father Paul.

648
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you think about it that, you know,

649
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,959
Speaker 1: and listen, the fact that they're drawing what forty eight

650
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: thousand fans a game. I mean, that's you know, pretty

651
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: horrific by NFL standards, just one of the worst attendance figures.

652
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: It's just it doesn't it doesn't make Mike doesn't influence him.

653
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: You know, He's going to do what he thinks his

654
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: best to win games the way that he thinks that

655
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: these games can be won. So, you know, putting Hugh

656
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: Jackson in whill you know, everyone around the NFL would

657
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: roll their eyes. You know, for the Bengals, this may

658
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: make sense because of his relationship with Mike and maybe

659
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: they feel that Hugh in this environment where he probably

660
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: have a little bit of a bigger say in personnel

661
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: than what he had with the Browns, where he was

662
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: clearly you know, clashing with Sashi Brown on the group

663
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: that was running things there. I mean, look, and I

664
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: don't even want to talk about John Dorsey because by

665
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: that point, you know, we knew that the clock was

666
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: taken on Hugh and it was going to take almost

667
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: a miracle, you know, for this Browns team to keep

668
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: him in twenty nineteen. But that being said, you know,

669
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: can Hugh Jackson in an environment where he's saying, Okay, this,

670
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: these are the things I want personnel wise, Let's get

671
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: him done. Can he win? Maybe it's something that Mike

672
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: Brown considers because Marvin Lewis does have significan can input

673
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: in the personnel decisions based on this team. But is

674
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: Hugh Jackson really after three thirty six and one in

675
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 1: the way that the Browns have responded following his dismissal.

676
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 1: Is this the right direction to the Cincinnati Bengals. I'm

677
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: not so sure about that, my guy, By the way,

678
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: who I really think the Bengals should hire if they

679
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 1: make a coaching move, and I'm not advocating that they do,

680
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,280
Speaker 1: but if they do, if you don't get Mike Munschak

681
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 1: on that first interview, I tell you, I think you're

682
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: making a big mistake. I think Mike Munchak could work

683
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 1: within the framework of this team. You wouldn't have to

684
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: worry about the offensive line anymore. It would become a

685
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 1: strength rather than what's obviously become a weakness for this team.

686
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,919
Speaker 1: There'd be a certain type of mental toughness that comes

687
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 1: with this group, and I think that Mike Munchak would

688
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 1: be an unbelievable hire for the Bengals. And I'm just

689
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: going on record as saying that, not saying it's going

690
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: to happen, not pushing forward. I'm just saying that I

691
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,240
Speaker 1: think Mike Munchak would be unbelievable in that job. Alex Marvez,

692
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: I didn't know that Dave Lapham could still do a

693
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: cart wheel until you said that. Yeah, this has been

694
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 1: discussed with Dahona and multiple things. Weaken the Pittsburgh Steelers

695
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: because that offensive line has become dominant since he's been there.

696
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: He's the best line coach in the league. It would

697
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 1: weaken them. The only thing, the only fly in the

698
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 1: ointment is he's you know, sixty ish and they want

699
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 1: the young, offensive minded, you know, they want to find

700
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: the next McVeigh. They want to find the next guy.

701
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 1: Everybody does. I guess that would be the only fly

702
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 1: in the ointment. But here here's Mike munch But Mike

703
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 1: Munchett thinks young. That's the thing too. If you if

704
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:25,879
Speaker 1: you've been you've been around Mike, and I think listen,

705
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: we've seen Bruce Harians. If that were the case, the

706
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 1: Arizona Cardinals would have never had that run of success.

707
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,240
Speaker 1: I mean, people looking for the next great offensive mind.

708
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 1: I mean, are really going to be disappointed this year?

709
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Like, because there just isn't

710
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: that guy out there right now? There isn't that Sean mcvagh.

711
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,720
Speaker 1: This turning heads. You know, everyone was pumping up John D. Filippo.

712
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: He's got his buddies in the media. You know. And

713
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: by the way, when you listen to a lot of

714
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 1: this stuff, please you of a lot of this, you

715
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. I mean, it's it's it's media

716
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 1: quote insiders that have friends, have relations with the agents,

717
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: and they start to promote like a John D. Philippo. Well,

718
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: what was John D. Philippo in Minnesota? It was awful? Okay,

719
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 1: it was just terrible. I mean I think that you know,

720
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: and listen, I'm not saying that there haven't been new

721
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: ideas in Cincinnati. Bill Laser had a different way of

722
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 1: doing things. Clearly, Terrell Austin tried and failed. But when

723
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 1: it comes to age, Mike Munchack is still a very

724
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 1: young guy. He looks fantastic. I don't think Mike Munchack

725
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 1: looks any different from ten twelve years ago. If you

726
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: put up a mug shot of him to where he

727
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 1: is today. He's full of energy, he's full of enthusiasm

728
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: and listen, he would have been the coach of the

729
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,280
Speaker 1: Arizona Cardinals last year had he not had a family

730
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 1: situation come up that where he just thought, I cannot

731
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: leave the Pittsburgh area. But I do think he'll be

732
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,439
Speaker 1: a head coach again. And when he does, I really

733
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,399
Speaker 1: hope that the Cincinnati Bengals, if they make a move,

734
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 1: what's strongly consider hiring him. And you know, fans are

735
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: going to be like, oh, what did he do in Tennessee? Well,

736
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 1: what did Belichick's do in Cleveland? And to me, and

737
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: here's my take on Mike Brown right now, Like you said,

738
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 1: he's in his eighties, Mike Brown had an issue and

739
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 1: was called Sam White. Great success, but volatility and it

740
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: was peaks and valleys in terms of huge mood swings,

741
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: volatility and all that, and it ended poorly. Did you

742
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: get fired? Did you quit it? And then the league

743
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: had to say, you know, the league had to determine

744
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: what went on there and go through this whole process.

745
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 1: Mike Brown does not want to deal with anybody that

746
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: has volatility. That's why Marvin Lewis is so even keel.

747
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: He's not too high with the highs, not too low

748
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 1: with the lows. He and Mike Brown have become like

749
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 1: like family, it is, and they meet every more, and

750
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: he is totally comfortable with Marvin Lewis. I think that

751
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: Marvin Lewis almost is gonna have to say to Mike,

752
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 1: you know what, Mike, I'm done. I don't want to

753
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: do it anymore. I honestly believe it because Mike Brown

754
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 1: is so so comfortable with the fact that he will

755
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 1: never have to worry about Marvin Lewis doing what Sam

756
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 1: did to him, or anybody that has that type of volatility.

757
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: And that's what he's looking for somebody. And after Sam

758
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: think about it, he brought in Dave Shula, He brought

759
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 1: in you know, these Bruce Castle, these guys that he knew,

760
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: that he had familiarity with. And that's why, you know,

761
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 1: you think, boy Marvin might be back. Hugh Jackson. Uh,

762
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 1: you know what if Mike Zimmer it ends in Minnesota,

763
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 1: which you think, why and how could that happen? But

764
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 1: all those people that Mike Brown has familiarity with and

765
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: has a comfort of dealing with, those people are all candidates.

766
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: Anybody that is not in that arena if Mike still

767
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: making the call. And here's the other question, when is

768
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: it time to name Duke Tobin GM? You know, they

769
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 1: do not they do not want to have a general manager.

770
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: Duke Tobin is basically general manager without title. But do

771
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 1: you let Duke Tobin do the coaching search? You know,

772
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: I mean, do you really shake things up? Do you

773
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 1: do that? All these are interesting dynamics as as the

774
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: next ten days. I'm fuld here. It's gonna be it's

775
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,399
Speaker 1: gonna be crazy, it's gonna be fascinating. I don't see

776
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 1: the Bengals going that radical as far as that goes.

777
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 1: And you're right, listen, I think too. There was a

778
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,439
Speaker 1: thought thinking with Marvin Lewis and Mike Brown that let's

779
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: give this two years to get this together. And I

780
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: understand that's been reported that there's an option year right

781
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 1: in marvin contract of Mike. It very easily pick up

782
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: that option. But there's a biout. It's a it's a buyout.

783
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: There's a buyout from Marvin's he could buy him out

784
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 1: of the last year. Yeah, I mean, do you think

785
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 1: Mike's gonna be buying out Marvin? I mean, you know,

786
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. It's like, you know, I don't. I

787
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 1: don't think if you're not the full it's not the

788
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: full salary. There's you know, there's lesser amount, right right,

789
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: and Wilson Marvin may have an offset where if he

790
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: went on to another team and had another position, that

791
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: that team would start picking up his salary in the

792
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,879
Speaker 1: Bengals would have to pay less. I you know, listen,

793
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 1: if Mike gave Marvin another shot and said, I get it.

794
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: You know, look, you added some real good things. We

795
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: have some real good young players here. I think that

796
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:18,879
Speaker 1: you're the right guy for us. Let's give it one

797
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: more try. While Bengals names don't want to hear what

798
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 1: I'm saying, I wouldn't be surprised. I think that maybe

799
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: it was even a two year commitment that Mike gave Marvin, like, look,

800
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to be doing this for two more years.

801
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: You may be doing this for two more years and

802
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 1: then we're done. Let's see what we can get done

803
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 1: over the next two years. This is year one of that.

804
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 1: If that was indeed the program when Marvin Lewis was

805
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: given that extension, then year two, same as it ever was,

806
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,439
Speaker 1: Marvin Lewis is back, and you just hope for better

807
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,439
Speaker 1: things on the defensive side of the football, You hope

808
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,439
Speaker 1: for better health, and you just hope that a winning

809
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 1: culture can be re established. Well, you are on record

810
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: with the following. If the Bengals make a change, they

811
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: should consider Pittsburgh Steeler's offensive line coach Mike Munchet makes sense.

812
00:39:58,120 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: By the way, different deal in Tennessee. I just want

813
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: to point out real quick, you're talking about an owner

814
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 1: who was really on his last legs and Bud Adams

815
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,280
Speaker 1: and you know, I know he's passed. I'm not speaking

816
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: ill of the dead, but he wasn't even around the franchise.

817
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 1: I mean, there was no guidance, no leadership in Tennessee,

818
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: and Mike was forced to basically almost you know, it

819
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 1: was like the team president would fly in once a

820
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 1: week from Houston because Bud Adams kept everything very different organization. Now,

821
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 1: and look, guys, like you mentioned with Belichick, we can

822
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 1: go Tom Coffin. I mean, how many two times failures,

823
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: Pete Carroll, you know, you know, three times as an

824
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: NFL head coach finally got a right in Seattle. Guys grow,

825
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 1: And I think that Mike Munch Mike Munchak has experienced

826
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 1: tremendous personal growth and listen, he knows this division as well.

827
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: It's not like you need him to reinvent the wheel

828
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 1: and learn a bunch of new guys. He knows how

829
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: where you know how to beat the Steelers. He knows

830
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 1: how to beat the Ravens. He knows how to beat

831
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: the Browns, which by the way, is not going to

832
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: be easy and years to come. Our thanks to Alex Marvez.

833
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 1: And that's going to do it for this episode of

834
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: the podcast. If you haven't done so already, don't forget

835
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 1: to subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher, or pod Bean. And if

836
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 1: you have a minute, please give it a rating or

837
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: leave a comment. Your feedback is always appreciated, and so

838
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,720
Speaker 1: are five star ratings. They help more Bengals fans find

839
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: this podcast. I'm Dan Horde, and thanks so much for

840
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: listening to The Bengals Booth Podcast