1
00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:06,400
Speaker 1: Summertime and Georgia. I'm not I've been in Georgia since

2
00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:08,840
Speaker 1: I was twelve, and I'll tell you the two things

3
00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:16,200
Speaker 1: I like least in this world are humidity and boiled peanuts.

4
00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,560
Speaker 1: So I don't know what I'm doing here for so long.

5
00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,200
Speaker 2: The first one is, you know, every man for himself,

6
00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:25,479
Speaker 2: but boiled peanuts are good. You need to get your

7
00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:26,240
Speaker 2: shit together.

8
00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:28,720
Speaker 1: Okay, I'll say I will say this for boiled peanuts

9
00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:30,640
Speaker 1: and the people who love them out there. I can

10
00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,040
Speaker 1: totally understand if you like boiled peanuts. If you're someone

11
00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,880
Speaker 1: who would take, you know, a box from Amazon, soak

12
00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,360
Speaker 1: it in some hot water, add a little bit of

13
00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:44,000
Speaker 1: sea water for that salt. Actually not seawater, because that's

14
00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:49,520
Speaker 1: too much flavor. Just salty, just salty, soggy cardboard.

15
00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:52,839
Speaker 2: Whatever. Man, how you have the cage in style like

16
00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:54,640
Speaker 2: there's flavored a boiled peanut.

17
00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:59,440
Speaker 1: Sure, but your base is still something that is known

18
00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,080
Speaker 1: for its crunchiness. You know what, We're made soggy?

19
00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:04,520
Speaker 2: Where can we fight? Everyone?

20
00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,080
Speaker 1: Give it the first big ridiculous romance fight to have

21
00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,160
Speaker 1: a fight about on air right here. I'm ready. I'm

22
00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:12,399
Speaker 1: not going to give in on this one.

23
00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:14,440
Speaker 2: Well, at least it's something that doesn't really matter.

24
00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,000
Speaker 1: Well, some would say that it does. There's certain circles

25
00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,280
Speaker 1: in which I will not express that opinion.

26
00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:22,720
Speaker 2: Very true, you could get harmed physically.

27
00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:24,240
Speaker 1: It's tough, you know.

28
00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,360
Speaker 2: I think the boiled peanuts were a natural evolution of

29
00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,280
Speaker 2: the humidity problem. Everything is just a little wet, so

30
00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:32,559
Speaker 2: you have to get used to liking it that way

31
00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:35,800
Speaker 2: and in fact make it a virtue.

32
00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,240
Speaker 1: Let's lean into the fact that everything's a little hot

33
00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,679
Speaker 1: and soggy around here and do it with nuts.

34
00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,360
Speaker 2: I mean, that's better than complaining about it. Twenty four

35
00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:49,960
Speaker 2: to seven, which make it? Are you talking about hot

36
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:50,440
Speaker 2: and wet?

37
00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:54,360
Speaker 1: Who would do that? Well, summertime in Georgia, you know,

38
00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:56,600
Speaker 1: we're we're making it. It's all right. We've got a

39
00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,919
Speaker 1: roof over our heads, our air conditioning kind of works,

40
00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,880
Speaker 1: and we've we've we've been in a worse situations, so

41
00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:05,960
Speaker 1: we're doing all right. We're just sweating a little.

42
00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:10,040
Speaker 2: Bit, hopefully same to y'all. Just a little sweat, but nothing,

43
00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:11,160
Speaker 2: nothing too bad.

44
00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,960
Speaker 1: The problem is when we start recording, obviously we have

45
00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:15,639
Speaker 1: to turn off all the fans and the AC and

46
00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:19,840
Speaker 1: everything for sound purposes. So you know, being a podcaster,

47
00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:25,320
Speaker 1: it's a tough life. It's pretty that the conditions in

48
00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,639
Speaker 1: which we work, I would say, not far off from

49
00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,320
Speaker 1: like miners, oh wow, or.

50
00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,280
Speaker 2: Soldiers yeah, very trench like.

51
00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:38,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh very much. So I would say.

52
00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,240
Speaker 2: They're going to write an ode to us any day.

53
00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,639
Speaker 1: Now, hang on, the third pillow under my ass is

54
00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:48,480
Speaker 1: a little crooked, so let me just okay, I've got it.

55
00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,079
Speaker 2: That third pillows really giving me that trench.

56
00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:58,880
Speaker 1: But just like coal miners, it's my point. So hey everybody, Hey,

57
00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,000
Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. So excited to have you

58
00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,800
Speaker 1: as always. Yeah, yeah, you're right as I am always

59
00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:08,720
Speaker 1: excited to have you.

60
00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:09,280
Speaker 2: It really is.

61
00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,079
Speaker 1: It's not like specific to this episode.

62
00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,919
Speaker 2: No, it's just very exciting. Yeah, people listening to any

63
00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:14,480
Speaker 2: word you say.

64
00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,360
Speaker 1: Oh my god. If you told anytime she told sixteen

65
00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:19,480
Speaker 1: year old me that people are just going to shut

66
00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:21,359
Speaker 1: up and listen to you talk for an hour, oh

67
00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,400
Speaker 1: my god, I'd be like, yeah, but do I have

68
00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:25,800
Speaker 1: to share the mic with anybody?

69
00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,200
Speaker 2: Wow? Sixteen year old you?

70
00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,720
Speaker 1: You'd be like yeah, but yeah. He'd be like yeah,

71
00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,600
Speaker 1: but she's hot. Oh and he'd be like all right.

72
00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,560
Speaker 2: So we're ringing endorsement sixteen year old.

73
00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,280
Speaker 1: He didn't understand. He didn't know it works out.

74
00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:45,240
Speaker 2: He didn't know me yet.

75
00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, he did not. He was dreaming of you.

76
00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,000
Speaker 2: Oh I'm your dream girl.

77
00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:54,560
Speaker 1: Look there's you know that. My dreams have a lot

78
00:03:54,600 --> 00:04:00,560
Speaker 1: of girls, but you are the standout character.

79
00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:06,480
Speaker 2: Oh. Thanks, I guess I'll take that. Speaking of a

80
00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:07,400
Speaker 2: lot of girls.

81
00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,000
Speaker 1: Speaking a lot of girls.

82
00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got we got our subject today also dreamed

83
00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:17,839
Speaker 2: of many women. Yeah, we're finally getting to this. We

84
00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,240
Speaker 2: got real sidetracked off this topic right to tell you

85
00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:25,720
Speaker 2: about Isaac Singer and his multiple families in New York,

86
00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:29,360
Speaker 2: his like four or five families, then million children.

87
00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,520
Speaker 1: We were gonna tell the Winneretta Singer story, and then

88
00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,520
Speaker 1: you found her father, Isaac Singer, the creator of the

89
00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,760
Speaker 1: Singer Sewing Machine. Check that episode out if you hadn't

90
00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:39,480
Speaker 1: heard it yet, because it's a great predecessor.

91
00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,480
Speaker 2: Who really is. But now it is time to get

92
00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:46,880
Speaker 2: to our listener. Suggestion from Seth bats at Seth Sculptures

93
00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:52,200
Speaker 2: on ig of Winoretta Singer. This was Isaac's twentieth child

94
00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,279
Speaker 2: that he had with his second actual real wife that

95
00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:59,800
Speaker 2: he actually married, Isabella boy year and Whinneretta had two

96
00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:05,520
Speaker 2: case marriages and multiple lesbian love affairs, besides using her

97
00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:10,880
Speaker 2: fortune to fund and commission work from like now iconic musicians, painters,

98
00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,440
Speaker 2: and writers. Wow, they wouldn't have been anything without her.

99
00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:15,240
Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, so let's get.

100
00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,960
Speaker 2: Into Winnaretta singer who is also known as the Princess.

101
00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:22,880
Speaker 1: Let's go hey, their friends come listen.

102
00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,560
Speaker 3: Well, Eli and Diana got some stories to tell. There's

103
00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:31,279
Speaker 3: no matchmaking, a romantic tips. It's just about ridiculous relations ship,

104
00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:33,960
Speaker 3: a love. There might be any type of person at all,

105
00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,560
Speaker 3: an abstract concept or a concrete wall. But if there's

106
00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:42,760
Speaker 3: a story where the second glance ridiculous romance.

107
00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:43,880
Speaker 1: A production of iHeartRadio.

108
00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:47,760
Speaker 2: Before we get into this, I think this is relevant.

109
00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:52,640
Speaker 2: There's just this conversation on in like the theater world

110
00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:57,159
Speaker 2: about whether or not because somebody just got an Egot designation, Yeah,

111
00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:02,240
Speaker 2: which is the Emmy, Grammy Oscar designation. They won the

112
00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,960
Speaker 2: Tony just because they funded a Broadway show. We're not

113
00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,000
Speaker 2: in it or designed it in any way or creatively

114
00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,000
Speaker 2: in control at all. Right, they just funded it. So

115
00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,920
Speaker 2: people are questioning whether or not that counts because they're

116
00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:17,800
Speaker 2: like Oh, you did was pay for it, so.

117
00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,760
Speaker 1: You didn't really you're not a creator.

118
00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,799
Speaker 2: On the other hand, if there's no money, there's no project, right,

119
00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:25,760
Speaker 2: So there was kind of a big debate about that,

120
00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,080
Speaker 2: and I think that's very relevant to Winneretta's story.

121
00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,720
Speaker 1: I don't know if this funder had any input during

122
00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,159
Speaker 1: the show, but they at least had the mind an

123
00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,359
Speaker 1: impulse to say this is the one, this will work.

124
00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:40,440
Speaker 1: I'm choosing this show over others.

125
00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if there is something to be said for

126
00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:46,800
Speaker 2: the eye of that's good, even if nobody else sees it.

127
00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,120
Speaker 2: There's something there that I think will hit with people

128
00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,240
Speaker 2: whatever reason. So I don't know. That's just something I've

129
00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,320
Speaker 2: I've been thinking about a lot since researching Wineretta.

130
00:06:55,920 --> 00:07:00,120
Speaker 1: Since she is a money person for the arts. I

131
00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,680
Speaker 1: will say that if we really want to dig into

132
00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,560
Speaker 1: this debate, I am willing for a wealthy producer to

133
00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:08,919
Speaker 1: come in and fund some of our projects and we

134
00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:10,400
Speaker 1: will come back to you all and give a full

135
00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,480
Speaker 1: report as to whether or not they deserve, you know,

136
00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,960
Speaker 1: any sort of recognition for that, and I'll tell you

137
00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,280
Speaker 1: right now they do. So if you have a bunch

138
00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,720
Speaker 1: of money and want some recognition for anything we do.

139
00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,880
Speaker 1: You know, shoot us an email. That's right, We're ready

140
00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:25,200
Speaker 1: for you.

141
00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:26,240
Speaker 2: At gmail dot com.

142
00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. Thanks to iHeartRadio for this one so far.

143
00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,760
Speaker 2: Huh. But we're open to other sponsors.

144
00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,600
Speaker 1: We've got a lot more projects ready to go and

145
00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:37,679
Speaker 1: the only thing we're missing is the money.

146
00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, we need a win Aretta of our own. So

147
00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:45,240
Speaker 2: win Aretta Singer was born in Yonkers, New York in

148
00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:49,040
Speaker 2: eighteen sixty five. Now, after the Civil War ended, the

149
00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,040
Speaker 2: Singer family moved to Paris until the outbreak of the

150
00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,080
Speaker 2: Franco Prussian War in eighteen seventy and then they moved

151
00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:59,320
Speaker 2: to Devonshire and Isaac bought the giant Old Way mansion

152
00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,520
Speaker 2: and he built the Wigwam on that estate. That's that

153
00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,800
Speaker 2: building with like the fully equipped theater where he had

154
00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,120
Speaker 2: the full circus come through and all that stuff that

155
00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,520
Speaker 2: we kind of talked about in the Isaac Singer episode.

156
00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,080
Speaker 2: But that is where Winneretta kind of grew up for

157
00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:15,720
Speaker 2: the first part of her life. Okay, pretty dope place

158
00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,280
Speaker 2: for a kid to grow up. Then, in eighteen seventy five,

159
00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,720
Speaker 2: Isaac Singer died and we told you then too that

160
00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:26,120
Speaker 2: his second wife Isabella Boyere remarried to a Dutch virtuoso

161
00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:30,840
Speaker 2: violinist named Victor Rupsat in eighteen seventy nine. Okay, now,

162
00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:32,640
Speaker 2: this guy was the son of a shoemaker, but he

163
00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:36,560
Speaker 2: pretended to be nobility to help him get gigs, basically

164
00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:40,880
Speaker 2: a con man for music gigs. But his fake nobility

165
00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,200
Speaker 2: became real in eighteen eighty one when he was gifted

166
00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:44,440
Speaker 2: the title of Duc.

167
00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:48,520
Speaker 1: De Campos els Now using Isabella's money, which of course

168
00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:52,000
Speaker 1: she inherited when Isaac died. All that singer sower money.

169
00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:58,760
Speaker 1: Victor collected rare stringed instruments, including this one called Vitomps

170
00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:03,080
Speaker 1: Guarini Jasu, which is built in seventeen forty one and

171
00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:07,240
Speaker 1: it's considered to be one of the finest violins ever made.

172
00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:11,959
Speaker 1: I'm so fascinated by these individual instruments having names. It's

173
00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,439
Speaker 1: like it's like fantasy character swords. Yeah, you know, Oh,

174
00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,240
Speaker 1: this is Sting, this is gleam Dring, this is the

175
00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:23,320
Speaker 1: sar Jess. That's so cool that this one thing, you know,

176
00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,000
Speaker 1: you could track its movements around the world. Yeah.

177
00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:27,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, have you ever seen the red violin?

178
00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:29,880
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it, but I remember that I.

179
00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,600
Speaker 2: Think it's about a stratavarius. It it's also like it's

180
00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:36,400
Speaker 2: the other best instrument ever is that one violin? But

181
00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,240
Speaker 2: it's so funny to think about how these fine instruments

182
00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,959
Speaker 2: they're so good that you can't play them, Like you're

183
00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:43,079
Speaker 2: not supposed to ever touch that.

184
00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:43,800
Speaker 1: I ever play that.

185
00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:45,959
Speaker 2: But they are apparently like sound amazing.

186
00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:50,080
Speaker 1: So I'm like like putting plastic on your furniture, like exactly,

187
00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,840
Speaker 1: if you keep it, you're you're eliminating its purpose by

188
00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:53,839
Speaker 1: keeping it pristine, you.

189
00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:55,760
Speaker 2: Keep all your action figures in the box. Come on,

190
00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:57,320
Speaker 2: I gotta play game.

191
00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:02,719
Speaker 1: Well, this particular violin is now also one of the

192
00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:06,240
Speaker 1: most expensive instruments in the world. It was last sold

193
00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:12,440
Speaker 1: to an anonymous bidder for sixteen million dollars. I gotta

194
00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,400
Speaker 1: say it's smart to say anonymous, because I got a

195
00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,080
Speaker 1: problem with you if you dropped sixteen million on one

196
00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,559
Speaker 1: violin but you can't even touch Come.

197
00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:24,400
Speaker 2: On, apparently it's gifted to like this top violin player

198
00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,040
Speaker 2: for her use for the rest of her life.

199
00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:27,360
Speaker 1: Oh okay, why they bought it?

200
00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,720
Speaker 2: I guess I would be like, damn, I must be

201
00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,080
Speaker 2: a violinist. They want me to play this or at

202
00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,000
Speaker 2: least hold onto it, because I don't think she's allowed

203
00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:35,400
Speaker 2: to play it.

204
00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,959
Speaker 1: Victor and Isabella they turned the grand salon of their

205
00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,319
Speaker 1: Parisian mansion into a musical salon, and some of the

206
00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,520
Speaker 1: best musicians of the day would come over and put

207
00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,160
Speaker 1: on concerts right there and there. They used to have

208
00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:52,120
Speaker 1: those living room concerts, you know, sixteen to thirty people

209
00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,480
Speaker 1: would come in and sit down with their little fans

210
00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,439
Speaker 1: and golf clap for the most beautiful music probably anyone's

211
00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:02,600
Speaker 1: ever heard in Western culture. Now. Winneretta, of course, Isabella's daughter,

212
00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:07,120
Speaker 1: the last daughter of Isabella and Isaac Singer. She never

213
00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:11,000
Speaker 1: received a formal music education, but she was passionate about music,

214
00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,360
Speaker 1: and she attended most of the concerts that her mom

215
00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,360
Speaker 1: and stepdad held in this musical salon. And for her

216
00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:22,079
Speaker 1: thirteenth birthday, she requested a performance of Beethoven's Opus one

217
00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:26,160
Speaker 1: thirty one string Quartet as a gift. And that, my friends,

218
00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,720
Speaker 1: is the gift of a child of privilege. Okay, I

219
00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,400
Speaker 1: was like thirteen, Like when I was thirteen, I wanted

220
00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,559
Speaker 1: a forty five dollars Lego set, and that was asked

221
00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:36,600
Speaker 1: a you.

222
00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:38,120
Speaker 2: Know, well, she already had a pony.

223
00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:39,640
Speaker 1: So yeah.

224
00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,160
Speaker 2: But a lot of people point this out as like

225
00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,319
Speaker 2: showing like what a musical mind she really had, because

226
00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,800
Speaker 2: I guess the Opus one thirty one, or all of

227
00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:52,360
Speaker 2: Beethoven's later work at the time was considered kind of incomprehensible.

228
00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:54,800
Speaker 2: So like the average listener like they were like, this

229
00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,880
Speaker 2: is complicated and artistic. Oh wow, So it was like

230
00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,320
Speaker 2: a sign of what a great year she had that

231
00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:02,880
Speaker 2: she liked. This was her favorite quartet and I really

232
00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:03,200
Speaker 2: liked it.

233
00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,120
Speaker 1: Or she was a show off and with music nerd

234
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,120
Speaker 1: and she's like, actually I like Beethoven's later's Probably she's

235
00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:13,480
Speaker 1: like a lot of people think it's too complicated, but

236
00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:14,320
Speaker 1: I prefer it.

237
00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:18,560
Speaker 2: Oh you like O to joya cute So a fair

238
00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:20,000
Speaker 2: weather fan, that's what.

239
00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:24,359
Speaker 1: I'm hearing, fair Weather Beethoven.

240
00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:29,960
Speaker 2: Hey, they all had their heyday, but all was not

241
00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,400
Speaker 2: well in the roops at home. Oh no, Because many

242
00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:39,080
Speaker 2: sources refer to Victor's quote unquote violent behavior. Oh though

243
00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,440
Speaker 2: not many details are given, so unclear if you just

244
00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:44,880
Speaker 2: was like someone who shouted a lot, if he actually

245
00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:49,000
Speaker 2: hit people, if there was any kind of sexual element, no, no,

246
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,440
Speaker 2: no details, just that he was kind of a violent man.

247
00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,080
Speaker 2: But it seems safe to say that Winneretta suffered some

248
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,000
Speaker 2: kind of abuse in this household, because as soon as

249
00:12:58,040 --> 00:12:59,719
Speaker 2: she came of age at twenty one years old and

250
00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,480
Speaker 2: was able to control her inheritance, she took her money

251
00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,680
Speaker 2: and ran. Yeah, she got the buck out of there. Unfortunately,

252
00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,000
Speaker 2: she could run as far as she wanted because Isaac

253
00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:12,640
Speaker 2: Singer left her a little over nine hundred thousand dollars,

254
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:18,520
Speaker 2: which is hers from here twenty four point eight million

255
00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,319
Speaker 2: dollars today. Geez, she couldn't really go anywhere she wanted.

256
00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:24,920
Speaker 1: I'd be happy enough if I had nine hundred thousand

257
00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:29,520
Speaker 1: dollars already, but it's actually work twenty five times that.

258
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,440
Speaker 2: Seriously, Manipulation's a bitch, let me tell you.

259
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:39,400
Speaker 1: Well, look these rich teenage girls with their Beethoven quartets

260
00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:43,880
Speaker 1: on their birthdays and then just oh, here's twenty five

261
00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:45,400
Speaker 1: million dollars. Geez.

262
00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,520
Speaker 2: All right, Well, but even a woman of privilege had

263
00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,920
Speaker 2: a limited life at this time. Whenneretta went to Paris,

264
00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:55,000
Speaker 2: she set herself up. She bought this large hotel to

265
00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,760
Speaker 2: live in, but she knew there was not really a

266
00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,800
Speaker 2: place in society for an unmarried woman. Okay, she's just

267
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,920
Speaker 2: the maid, right, nobody wants her around, right, right.

268
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:06,040
Speaker 1: And she also.

269
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,760
Speaker 2: Didn't want just any old place in society. We're talking

270
00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:10,800
Speaker 2: about a privileged woman here. She wanted to be part

271
00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,480
Speaker 2: of the aristocratic society of arts. And that's kind of

272
00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,840
Speaker 2: one thing that your money cannot buy you unless you,

273
00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:19,600
Speaker 2: you know, give a large sum to the king or

274
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:22,480
Speaker 2: something like that. But you know, that's kind of an

275
00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:26,120
Speaker 2: inherited thing. So she said, what do I gotta do?

276
00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,360
Speaker 2: What do I get it? Marriage boom, the solution to

277
00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:33,360
Speaker 2: so many problems in the ridiculous Romance universe. And so

278
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,880
Speaker 2: Whenneretta accepted the very first man to ask her to

279
00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,320
Speaker 2: marry him, and that was a prince named Louis Vilfred

280
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:42,359
Speaker 2: d'escay mont Belliard.

281
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,200
Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, lot of name. Yeah, he's got enough names

282
00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:45,560
Speaker 1: that you.

283
00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,280
Speaker 2: Know he's can borrow one of these.

284
00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:52,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. But on their wedding night, according to Sylvia Kahan's

285
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,760
Speaker 1: biography of Winneretta, which is called Music's Modern Muse, this

286
00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,480
Speaker 1: guy entered his bride's bedroom only to find Winneretta perched

287
00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:04,800
Speaker 1: on top of the bureau swinging an umbrella, yelling quote,

288
00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,880
Speaker 1: if you touch me, I'll kill you, damn, which I'd

289
00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,160
Speaker 1: be like, well, okay, I'm sorry. I thought we were

290
00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:16,280
Speaker 1: getting married here. I didn't realize I was under violent.

291
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:17,640
Speaker 2: Threat sad I do earlier?

292
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:19,640
Speaker 1: Huh, I guess you do not.

293
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,600
Speaker 2: I'm picturing him in like a frog, you know, dressing

294
00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:27,080
Speaker 2: gown sure, feeling himself. Yeah, now he's got a fight

295
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:27,600
Speaker 2: on his hand.

296
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,080
Speaker 1: Married this beautiful woman. She said yes so quickly when I.

297
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,640
Speaker 2: Proposed to her, I thought she was in love with me.

298
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,480
Speaker 1: So, you know, kind of an inauspicious start to this

299
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:42,720
Speaker 1: blissful married life. But Winneretta wasn't kidding here. She was

300
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:46,200
Speaker 1: a lesbian and she had zero interest in, you know,

301
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:50,480
Speaker 1: whatever Louis had going on under those dressing gowns. There's

302
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,040
Speaker 1: not really a lot of detail out there about Louis himself,

303
00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,400
Speaker 1: but it's likely that the two of them led just

304
00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:00,000
Speaker 1: completely separate lives. Yeah, total marriage of what he called

305
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:01,400
Speaker 1: marriage of convenience.

306
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:02,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

307
00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:07,520
Speaker 1: But as she was now the Princess de guy mont Balliard,

308
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,400
Speaker 1: she established her own first musical salon, and she hosted

309
00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:16,160
Speaker 1: orchestral concerts ell as well as chamber music and composers

310
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:20,880
Speaker 1: like Forret or Chabrier or Dandee and Moore performed there

311
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,240
Speaker 1: at her own salon, and this helped them find fans

312
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:28,400
Speaker 1: and patrons. She also rented a palazzo in Venice, and

313
00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,200
Speaker 1: she sent Forret there for a vacation, and that's where

314
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:36,120
Speaker 1: he started composing. Sank Melodi de Venice now Whinneretta also

315
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,960
Speaker 1: studied painting, and she was very accomplished. She studied with

316
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:46,040
Speaker 1: Felix Baret and spent time in Eduard Manet's studio. Wow, yeah,

317
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:47,120
Speaker 1: one of the greats.

318
00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,840
Speaker 2: Apparently he never really took students, he only had one

319
00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,680
Speaker 2: like formal student. But I guess she went to his

320
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,480
Speaker 2: studio and yeahs you know, but it wasn't anything like

321
00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:57,000
Speaker 2: he took her under his winger.

322
00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,080
Speaker 1: You can watch it, no questions.

323
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:01,760
Speaker 2: You are lucky to be in my prison.

324
00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:04,360
Speaker 1: Can I audit that class.

325
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:06,920
Speaker 2: One auditing of Mane studio people?

326
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,240
Speaker 1: Well? In fact, when Aeretta did so well, she exhibited

327
00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,480
Speaker 1: her work at the Chicago World's Fair in eighteen ninety three,

328
00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:18,520
Speaker 1: but according to Palazzo Contorini Polgna dot com, her paintings

329
00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:25,080
Speaker 1: were even mistaken for mayonnaise creation. She really must have

330
00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,040
Speaker 1: learned quite a bit from watching him. A funny story.

331
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,800
Speaker 1: Some of my paintings have been misconstrued for mayonnaise.

332
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:34,480
Speaker 2: Oh wait a minute, in the past, hang on.

333
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,760
Speaker 1: Blaba, white paint. Gross, it's deep, it's tangy.

334
00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,920
Speaker 2: Well, of course this marriage could not last, all right,

335
00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,840
Speaker 2: I'm sure Old Louis from the moment she started trying

336
00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:48,800
Speaker 2: to swing an umbrella at him, trying to get out

337
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:48,960
Speaker 2: of this.

338
00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:49,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

339
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,200
Speaker 2: So in eighteen ninety two, the Vatican annulled the scay

340
00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:57,359
Speaker 2: Montbelliard marriage since it had never been consummated. But you know,

341
00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,520
Speaker 2: we all know by now that society, especially at that point,

342
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,280
Speaker 2: hates a divorcee. Right, So when Aretta kind of lost

343
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,160
Speaker 2: her place in society that she had been building so much,

344
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,560
Speaker 2: particularly in the elevated circles that she'd been moving in,

345
00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:12,320
Speaker 2: she was sort of a persona and on grad it

346
00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:16,040
Speaker 2: was very scandalous, interesting forced. So near the end of

347
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:20,199
Speaker 2: the year, her friends Count Robert de Montesquieu, who is

348
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,080
Speaker 2: like a well known dandy and es fete. He was

349
00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:27,240
Speaker 2: one hundred percent the model for Marcel Proust's dandy Baron

350
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,480
Speaker 2: de Charlis. In this book In Search of Lost Time,

351
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,600
Speaker 2: the remembrance of things passed depending on which translation. You see,

352
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,200
Speaker 2: he might even have inspired Dorian Gray Oscar Wilde story

353
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,199
Speaker 2: and Gray, oh kidding, butte that's how well known of

354
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,600
Speaker 2: like a dandy he was. Everybody was like, this guy's

355
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:47,800
Speaker 2: really handsome, very effeminate, kind of mean perfect, this is

356
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:48,600
Speaker 2: my guy?

357
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,560
Speaker 1: Did he did he inspire Dorian Gray because he was

358
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,960
Speaker 1: like Paul Rudd and he just never seemed to age,

359
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,479
Speaker 1: never aged, And so Oscar Wilde is like, man, this

360
00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:00,200
Speaker 1: guy year after year was going on Oscar wild like,

361
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,560
Speaker 1: I bet there's a painting in the basement somewhere.

362
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:09,439
Speaker 2: Hella pakmarks ravage well. Count Robert Demontesque and his cousin,

363
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:15,639
Speaker 2: the Countess Elizabeth Grefeu, approached her, urging Winneretta to remarry.

364
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:17,560
Speaker 2: They were like, girl, all you got to do to

365
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,200
Speaker 2: get yourself re established is to find you a good man, right,

366
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,760
Speaker 2: And they even had the guy in mind. It was

367
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,040
Speaker 2: a friend of theirs name Prince Edmund de Paulaignac. Now

368
00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,280
Speaker 2: he's twenty years older than Winneretta, but he had a

369
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,440
Speaker 2: lot to recommend himself as a husband. Okay, first of all,

370
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,600
Speaker 2: he's a prince, so Winneretta could have that title. She's

371
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:41,600
Speaker 2: looking a princess. Secondly, he was broke. He had lost

372
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,000
Speaker 2: a lot of money on some get rich quick schemes,

373
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,480
Speaker 2: so he really needed a rich wife. Okay, so he'd

374
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:50,520
Speaker 2: be yeah, he'd be open to it. Thirdly, and best

375
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,800
Speaker 2: of all, Edmund de Paulaignac was gay.

376
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:55,840
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Count Robert.

377
00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:57,159
Speaker 2: May even has been a former lover of his.

378
00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:01,800
Speaker 1: Oh, the perfect husband, The perfect husband. Winneretta's perfect husband

379
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:03,760
Speaker 1: is a lot different than most people. She's like, Okay,

380
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:05,439
Speaker 1: he's a prince, A lot of people are good with that.

381
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,760
Speaker 1: And he's broke, and he's gay. That's the the all

382
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,120
Speaker 1: three boxes I was looking for. Check check, check.

383
00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,600
Speaker 2: A rich lesbian woman has a different checklist than most

384
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:15,359
Speaker 2: of us, I suppose.

385
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:16,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fair.

386
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, Winneretto could just put her umbrella away and.

387
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,840
Speaker 1: Relax, you know. Yeah, he was not coming after her.

388
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,720
Speaker 1: So Winneretta and Edmund were married in eighteen ninety three,

389
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,720
Speaker 1: and she became the Princess da Polignac, and these two

390
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:34,200
Speaker 1: actually had an amazing marriage. Edmund was a talented composer.

391
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,760
Speaker 1: He'd actually won several prizes, and he was also very

392
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,879
Speaker 1: passionate about music and art and literature, just like Winneretta.

393
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:45,280
Speaker 1: So they found really a kindred spirit. Like you know,

394
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,040
Speaker 1: you like art, I like art, You like music, I

395
00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,800
Speaker 1: like music. You like people of your same sex, I

396
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:52,320
Speaker 1: like people like this.

397
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 2: Was great, This is all working out so well.

398
00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,240
Speaker 1: So they ended up really kind of loving each other

399
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,120
Speaker 1: in that way, and they support or to each other constantly.

400
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:02,960
Speaker 1: I mean, that's you got to say, that's a really

401
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:03,760
Speaker 1: good partnership.

402
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 2: Absolutely, if you can call it a bond of true love.

403
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 2: Even though it's fully platonic, they were truly in love

404
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 2: with one another. They got each other really well. So

405
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:16,159
Speaker 2: this was kind of a masterpiece in matchmaking from Robert

406
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:17,919
Speaker 2: de montesque. Great job, Robert.

407
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,400
Speaker 1: I wonder if there's something there where, let's say they're

408
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 1: out having their little flings, their little same sex flings

409
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:28,119
Speaker 1: on the side or whatever, is there still a little

410
00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 1: bit of jealousy. It's like, even though we're not sexually bonded,

411
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,480
Speaker 1: I just don't like you spending intimate time with someone else.

412
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 1: You and I are right thing.

413
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,560
Speaker 2: Right, listen. I don't think with these two, but yes,

414
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 2: it definitely happens. There's a few of her lovers that

415
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,359
Speaker 2: were married to gay men as well. In like Mariage

416
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 2: blanc or lavender marriages halls a lot because they were

417
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 2: each other's beards essentially. Where Yeah, they would get jealous

418
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,399
Speaker 2: of one another all the time, even though I'm not

419
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:56,439
Speaker 2: interested in what you got, but that's my wife or

420
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 2: that's my husband. Yeah, you know, I still feel a

421
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,440
Speaker 2: sense of possession. Very interesting people.

422
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 1: I mean, jealousy is really complicated.

423
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 2: We'll get into that a little bit.

424
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:09,199
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So Winneretta produced Edmund's concerts multiple times. All

425
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 1: of his compositions got to be heard. But the first

426
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 1: thing they did was set up one of those, of course,

427
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 1: incredible artistic salons in their Parisian music room and they

428
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 1: would debut performances of works for musicians like Debussy, Ravel,

429
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: Fouret and Chabrier, just huge names in French composition. Beautiful

430
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 1: little concerts.

431
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 2: I would totally go to one of these nights.

432
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. They also would have authors like Marcel Proust

433
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 1: and crossover alert Oscar Wilde and Collette would come by

434
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 1: all the time and give little readings of their works. Amazing.

435
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 1: Also additional crossover alert, the Polignacs hosted our friend BDSM

436
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 1: connoisseur Percy Granger, who dedicated some of his folk song

437
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 1: compositions to winner Retta.

438
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 2: How crazy is this?

439
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 1: I mean, like, go figure that all the same names

440
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,199
Speaker 1: are the ones that got written down and recorded and

441
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:08,920
Speaker 1: were rich. It was a small circle.

442
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 2: Belle Epoch Paris is up insane. Like the amount of

443
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 2: people American, British and English and French that were all

444
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 2: in these salons ended up being amazing together. Pretty crazy.

445
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 2: Apparently Marcel Proust came to the salon because of Robert

446
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 2: Montesquieu introduced him, and Marcel got a lot of his

447
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 2: like observations of society that he became famous for writing

448
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 2: in those salons. So kind of Winneretta salon was sort

449
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 2: of his, like what he was writing about.

450
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:44,640
Speaker 1: Wow.

451
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 2: In fact, Marcel Proust wrote that before they had ever

452
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 2: met in person, Winneretta and Edmund de Paulagnac had bid

453
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 2: against one another at an art auction trying to win

454
00:23:54,760 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 2: a Monet Claude Monet's Champe de tulip Wow, full painting

455
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:00,959
Speaker 2: of Julip.

456
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 1: I mean, look, if you want a beautiful painting of tulips,

457
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: you call Claude Monette. I tell you that.

458
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 2: Well, of course, you know we already know Edmund was

459
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 2: having money troubles, so of course Winneretta won this. Yeah,

460
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 2: and at the time, Edmund was apparently enraged to have

461
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 2: been outbid by an American woman. Oh real snobby about it.

462
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 2: But then he later joked, quote, I married the American

463
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 2: and could look at the painting as often as I like.

464
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: I wonder if that was like the cinch for him

465
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: in this marriage. She's like, oh, it's a woman. I'm

466
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: not into that. She likes music. Okay, she's rich, that's good.

467
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: She's got my painting.

468
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 2: That's probably. Robert was apparently like, hey, man, you should

469
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 2: marry Winnetta singer. Dude, like, you'll solve all your problems.

470
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

471
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 2: Probably say she's got that monet, you can hang it

472
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 2: right in your room.

473
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 1: I said, whatever I have to do to get that painting,

474
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 1: I will, I will marry a woman.

475
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 2: In fact, also Monette himself would hang out at the

476
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 2: Polyniac salon all the time. He also became friends with

477
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 2: actual pain Oh my god, pretty dope.

478
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's better than just buying the painting.

479
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 2: He could be like, drum me another tulip?

480
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,479
Speaker 1: Why well, yeah, why why buy the milk you can

481
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 1: get for free?

482
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 2: For free for dinner the price of dinner.

483
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 1: Why by the tulips when you can just befriend Claude Monette.

484
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: That's the other version of that saying.

485
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 2: For real, uh Whinneretta also introduced Edmund to Polignac, to

486
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 2: Venice because remember she already like going there, Oh sure,

487
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 2: and it soon became one of his favorite places. He

488
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 2: particularly loved this palace on the Grand Canal. It was

489
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 2: called the Palazzo Contari ni dal Zaffo. And one day

490
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 2: in nineteen hundred, they're having dinner with some rich friends

491
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 2: and he kind of saw it, you know, the corner

492
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 2: of his eye, and he spontaneously exclaimed, quote, ah, that

493
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 2: is the place to live in. We must manage to

494
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 2: get it, one way or another. And apparently this kind

495
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 2: of amazed Whineretta because Edmund rarely asked for anything for himself,

496
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 2: like he didn't really take advantage of this rich white

497
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,159
Speaker 2: he had. So when Iaretta decided, you know what, I'm

498
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 2: gonna buy him that palazzo, thanks so much. And it

499
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 2: took her a few months of like real estate wrangling.

500
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 2: We all know it takes a while to close on

501
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 2: a house, but she got it and it became the

502
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 2: Palazzo Contarini Polignac.

503
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,479
Speaker 1: What I will say, I just looked it up at

504
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 1: the Palazzo Contorini dal Zafo aka Contorni Polignac. It's beautiful.

505
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 1: It is beautiful, beautiful. I would totally buy it if

506
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 1: I had the money'sta it's It's a private residence today

507
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: still apparently for the Polignac family, and they do a

508
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: frequent art events.

509
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 2: The foundation that she sets up inherited it, so they

510
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 2: do a lot of concerts. Let's go, ready, go. We

511
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,439
Speaker 2: haven't been to Venis though, No, we'll record an episode.

512
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 1: Well, I've been to visits on my study abroad and

513
00:26:55,160 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: wasn't my favorite. Damn sorry, Well, sadly for a big

514
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: tone shift here. Her husband, Edmund, had never really been

515
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 1: in great health. I remember he was twenty years older

516
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 1: than her as well, and he died just seven months

517
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 1: after she bought him the palazzo, shortly after his sixty

518
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,679
Speaker 1: seventh birthday, and Winneretta basically spent the rest of her

519
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: life honoring him in the best way that she knew.

520
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: How artistic patronage leading to some of the most beloved

521
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 1: artistic works of our time, and we have barely even

522
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: scratched the surface on all of her lesbian love affairs.

523
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: So we're going to talk about that right after this break.

524
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 1: Welcome back, everybody, now.

525
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 2: Winneretta and Edmund both had affairs during their marriage. That

526
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,479
Speaker 2: was sort of part of the the deal, right, Neil, Right,

527
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 2: was that we get to each do our own thing. Yeah,

528
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 2: but most of Winneretta's most famous relationships seemed to have

529
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 2: started after Edmund died. Okay, So I don't know why,

530
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 2: speculation station. Maybe she felt like she could be more

531
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 2: out and proud as a widow than as a married woman.

532
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 1: Oh sure.

533
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 2: Maybe she's just a little more private about who and what.

534
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 2: Or maybe they both just kind of went for people

535
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 2: that weren't names, or.

536
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 1: They're just like they seem to really enjoy spending time together.

537
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: Maybe they just devoted a lot of their time together

538
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: and she wasn't that often out there looking you know, Yeah,

539
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: or she was just so busy with her art she

540
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: didn't have a lot of time for those flings.

541
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 2: Right, Very true. That sounds like or maybe like he's

542
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 2: you know, such a shield in a way that like

543
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 2: her female friendships weren't as remarked on. Sure, and then

544
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 2: after he's gone, everyone's like, well, she's spent ten years

545
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 2: with this one, lady. Oh you know what I mean, Like,

546
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 2: I don't know for sure, but just saying. And you guys,

547
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 2: Winneretta picked some amazing women to have affairs with, like

548
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 2: of course, because her circle is incredible.

549
00:28:58,080 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: Yeah right, just scratching.

550
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 2: The surface here. One of her lovers was Olga Demeyer,

551
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 2: who was an artist, muse and model. She was a

552
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 2: champion fencer, and she was an opium addict. They were

553
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 2: together from nineteen oh one to nineteen oh five.

554
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: Quite a comboat, uh huh.

555
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 2: She also had a relationship with the composer Ethel Smith

556
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 2: in nineteen oh three, Big Suffragists. She wrote like the

557
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 2: Suffragette Anthem and was this amazing composer she fell deeply

558
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 2: in love with, Winneretta started writing an opera about her.

559
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 2: Winneretta also had an affair with the painter Romaine Brooks

560
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 2: starting in nineteen oh five, and fans of our Collette

561
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 2: series might remember Romaine Brooks. We've brought her up before

562
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,719
Speaker 2: because she had a fifty year menage with Natalie Clifford Barney,

563
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 2: who was another famed Parisian lesbian. She was actually an

564
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 2: American expat like Winneretta. She was a big proponent of

565
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 2: non monogamy. And apparently Winneretta did not like Natalie Clifford. Oh,

566
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 2: I thought they would have been total broski too similar.

567
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 2: Winneretta was like acted like she didn't even know her

568
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 2: something like she were like, I don't know what that is.

569
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 2: That so I think I think Wheneretta was a little

570
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 2: more conservative than Natalie Clifd Barney, Natalie Clifford Barney's like

571
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 2: non monogamy just set her apart. I think because she

572
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 2: was just like, there's no reason to tie yourself down

573
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 2: or whatever, even though Winneretta's totally got a lot of

574
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 2: overlap too, right. Winneretta also had a playing with the

575
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 2: pianist and singer Renata Burgatti in the early nineteen twenties,

576
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 2: the socialite Violet Trifuses for ten years from nineteen twenty

577
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 2: three to nineteen thirty three, and the landscape expert and

578
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 2: garden designer al Veiled Chaplain from nineteen thirty eight to

579
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 2: nineteen forty three. It's a big name, a lot of

580
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 2: big names and kind of long relationships. A lot of them.

581
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 2: They were together for a while, and.

582
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: Some people even say that she had an affair with

583
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: author Virginia Wolf, although some people think that they were

584
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: just friends, and in fact, Virginia Wolf did throw some

585
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: shade on Winneretta. At one point, she wrote to a friend, quote,

586
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: to look at her, You'd never think she ravished half

587
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: the virgins in Paris. Yeah, it's like she's not. I

588
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: don't know for all that, damn Virginia Wolf noted for

589
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: her wicked burns.

590
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 2: Virginia Wolf almost be roasted by Virginia Wolf.

591
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: But look, I know, we just rattled off a lot

592
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: of like and she did this, she did that, And

593
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: you're like, but what tell me more? I know, But

594
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: all these women were so accomplished and talented, with so

595
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: much story of their own, that were actually going to

596
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: do a whole separate episode dedicated just to the lesbian

597
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: lovers of Winneretta Singer.

598
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 2: Every one of them is so cool, you guys, right

599
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 2: there really are.

600
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: There's a ton of crossover. Some of these lesbians had

601
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: affair with each other, some of their gay husbands were

602
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: having affairs with each other as well. Just a real,

603
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: real spider web of relationships and stories. So so stay tuned.

604
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: You know, we've got a lot more to talk about

605
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: with Winnaretta right here. But then next episode we're going

606
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: to go through all.

607
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 2: These individuals lovers and all their lovers.

608
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, it's gonna be chaos, but we will talk

609
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: about one well known story about Winneretta. She was in

610
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: Venice at one point and she invited a married woman

611
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: that she had a crush on to dinner. The husband

612
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: of this woman, who had not been invited himself, got

613
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: super jealous and drunk, and he came in. He pushed

614
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: his way past the servants and he was in the

615
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: dining room and he yelled at Winneretta quote.

616
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 4: If you're half the man you pretend to be, come

617
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 4: and fight a duel tomorrow at the lead o the

618
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 4: fighting bit for the honor of my wife.

619
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: Then he threw a bunch of place settings and candlesticks

620
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: into the grand canal. Then he got escorted out. All

621
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 1: the items were recovered. Feel sorry for those divers because

622
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 1: the Venice Grand Canal is not one i'd want to

623
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: swim in. That's sure, in a.

624
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 2: Gondola with like a net, you know, like.

625
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: Scooping out of man.

626
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 2: But they had to be heavy, right, they must have dove.

627
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: To the ball. It was. Yeah, that was a lot

628
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: of work for this. Oh of course, of course, so

629
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: you know, damage undone. But surely a lot of gossip

630
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: going around this story for months. Seriously, did you hear

631
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: what this Beauci did?

632
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 2: That's Beaucci.

633
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know what his name was.

634
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 2: No one does. The woman is not named, so yeah.

635
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: She was like you keeping my name out of the

636
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 1: history books for these ones.

637
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 2: But yeah. One of the gossips that was probably dining

638
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 2: out in this story for a long time was Winneretta's matchmaker,

639
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 2: Count Robert de Montesquieu, because after their marriage, Robert felt

640
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 2: like he had done Edmond and Winneretta a huge favorite

641
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 2: getting them together, and he didn't think they showed enough

642
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 2: gratitude for it. Oh well, they should be bound and

643
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 2: scrape a little more.

644
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: We're my finder's feet exactly, maybe a.

645
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 2: Hand for some ship that they don't want to pay for.

646
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 2: He also claimed he was not invited to the wedding.

647
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 2: Edmund de Polignac always said that was not true. He's like,

648
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 2: none of that is true. But Robert basically broke off

649
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 2: their friendship, and then he spent as much time as

650
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 2: he could spreading rumors about the couple, and he would

651
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 2: rag on Winneretta for her neu veau riche background, so

652
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 2: just being kind of a bitch. So he probably loved

653
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 2: this story and talked about it everywhere he went, like, Oh,

654
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 2: did you hear the one about Winneretta. She's probably still

655
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,240
Speaker 2: getting her candlesticks out of the canal.

656
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:27,800
Speaker 1: Damn.

657
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 2: Also, this is something of a tangent, but it's such

658
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,280
Speaker 2: a fun story. Conspiracy lovers might be interested.

659
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: Oh do you mean here's where it gets crazy.

660
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 2: Yes, this is where I wanted to across there with

661
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 2: stuff they don't want you to know. Yes, But in

662
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 2: nineteen oh one, there were two women named Charlotte Anne

663
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 2: Moberly and Eleanor Jordaine, and they went to visit the Petit,

664
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 2: which is three Antoinette's palace rights.

665
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, her own separate little quarters, right.

666
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 2: And so they're wandering around in nineteen oh one, and

667
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:03,839
Speaker 2: they claim that they actually traveled back in time or

668
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 2: experienced a haunting because they said they saw Marie Antoinette

669
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,720
Speaker 2: and members of her court and servants like doing stuff

670
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 2: in the and they said they described kind of a

671
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 2: spooky vibe. So they published an account of this incident

672
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 2: in nineteen eleven. It's now called the Moberly Jordaine Incident,

673
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 2: and it caused a huge sensation. It was like the

674
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 2: Bigfoot of its time, right, it was a big deal. Yeah,

675
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 2: but it's like captured imaginations allway.

676
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 1: Sure. Sure, But in the nineteen.

677
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 2: Sixties it was suggested that these two women had actually

678
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 2: stumbled on one of Count Robert de Montesque's party where

679
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 2: his avant garde friends dressed up and performed tableaux vivant

680
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 2: or living pictures in period costume, and then Marie Antoinette

681
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 2: they saw may even have been a cross dress all,

682
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 2: oh my god. And so they're like these Edwardian spinsters

683
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 2: seeing an avant garde party would have probably seemed very

684
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 2: spooky and so real to them. So they actually saw

685
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 2: some gay party and oh my godd thought they traveled

686
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 2: back in time.

687
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: They're probably tripping on mushrooms too. I mean, that's like

688
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 1: me walking into Dragon Con and being like, oh my god,

689
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: the ghosts from the future have come back. It's just

690
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 1: like Star Trek exactly, posing for pictures with each other.

691
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 2: So that account was accepted, and there was no no

692
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 2: more publications here. Their story was allowed to be printed

693
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 2: after that.

694
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: Gotcha. They put a stamp on it and said no,

695
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: this was one of his parties.

696
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 2: They're pretty sure that that's incredible.

697
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: That's crazy. They were tripping so hard they thought they

698
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: were in that they were being surrounded by ghosts. You

699
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: wonder if they're like poking party guests and being like,

700
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: are you real poking my face a ghost?

701
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 2: I'm supposed to be posing right now? Kind of ruining it.

702
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 2: I do love too. They saw a man in address

703
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 2: and they were like.

704
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 1: Haunting. Well, anyway, let's get back to a Winnaretta singer.

705
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: She is a widow now. She chose to show her

706
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 1: love for Edmund to Polignac by supporting the artists and

707
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: musicians that they had loved together. My poor long lost husband,

708
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: let me preserve his legacy here through art.

709
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 3: Right.

710
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 1: She created a fund for a yearly Wagner concert, because

711
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: Wagner had been Edmund's favorite composer, and in fact, for

712
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 1: Edmund's funeral. She rented out this palazzo in Venice, where

713
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 1: the composer Wagner had frequently stayed, and she had musicians

714
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: playing Wagner in his honor, and all the palazzo owners

715
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: along the Grand Canal hung these banners in tribute to Edmund.

716
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's nice.

717
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: That's beautiful.

718
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 2: It kind of shows to that Edmund. You know, it's

719
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 2: really easy to kind of write off Edmund is like

720
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 2: Winneretta's husband or whatever. But he was clearly a very

721
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 2: important member of this team, Like be brought in as

722
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 2: many artists as she did, you know, to their salon.

723
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 2: He was as much of a connection point for all

724
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 2: these iconic people as she was. So right, it's just

725
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 2: easy to forget that. But he actually had a lot

726
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:05,879
Speaker 2: of these contacts as well.

727
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: And I'll say, and I'm the half joking but half

728
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 1: serious here, if you're someone with money looking to invest

729
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 1: it somewhere and you throw it into the next tech

730
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 1: trend fad, you know that can fizzle out, yep, business,

731
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 1: startup whatever, Like you're trying to make a lot of

732
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: money and maybe works. But if you want your name

733
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: celebrated in the streets long after you're dead and one

734
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 1: day people you know, give a podcast talking about how

735
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 1: great you were, you throw your money to artists, that's right, right,

736
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 1: And you support culture absolutely in your area, and you

737
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,240
Speaker 1: know people are going to celebrate you when you're alive

738
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: and after your death, right.

739
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:45,800
Speaker 2: Because you're literally bankrolling beauty and expression and some things

740
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 2: that people can't do without.

741
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:48,479
Speaker 1: Things that there last.

742
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 2: You can do without things that last that last. Exactly.

743
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 2: Not every artist is going to hit every time, but

744
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:56,240
Speaker 2: it's still worth your money.

745
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: Yep. No, every artist hits, you know, so give them money.

746
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: Don't think about that. It's not about well and kind

747
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: of seriously, it's not about whether or not it's successful.

748
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: You're not investing like an investor, like, let me take

749
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 1: a gamble in this artist and hope I make a

750
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: ton of money, like you're just That's the thing with

751
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: art is that it doesn't operate on the same commercial

752
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: spectrum as every other business. Its value is different than dollars,

753
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,879
Speaker 1: and it has tremendous value. That's not wi wu, it's

754
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: not hippie dippy, it's not ignorable. It's actually super important

755
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: literally every culture through history. Anyway, get your minds out

756
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 1: of the bank for one minute to please everybody. Oh

757
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: my god, there'll be time for that later anyway. Winneretta

758
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:45,839
Speaker 1: also created the Edmund de Polignac Prize for Writing, which

759
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 1: was awarded annually to British authors. And she was a

760
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 1: patron of people like Collette and Marcel Proust, and Jean Cocteaux,

761
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 1: who is one of the leaders of the Surrealist and

762
00:39:56,080 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: Dadaist movements, and poets like Anna de Noilli and Paul Valeri.

763
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,320
Speaker 2: That's right, and names. Knowing that she knew Marcel Proust

764
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 2: and Jean Cocteau. I can imagine this is never written anywhere,

765
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 2: but I can't imagine that she probably crossed paths at

766
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 2: some point with Claude Cahoun and Marcel Moore. I really

767
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 2: hope so.

768
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: I hope so right.

769
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 2: But she might have been a little too They might

770
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 2: have been too out there for her, because again we

771
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 2: found out she is a little more conservative than maybe

772
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,839
Speaker 2: her Her life seems to be taxed now. But I

773
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 2: hope so. I think that would be cool, that's cool

774
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 2: if she if Claude was at one of the salons.

775
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,800
Speaker 2: Of course, Winderette is still bankrolling musicians as her favorite.

776
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 1: Right.

777
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:41,240
Speaker 2: She was honoring Edmund to Polognac's memory by commissioning several

778
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 2: compositions that are still well loved today, including the opera

779
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 2: Renard by Igor Stravinski, Concerto's by Poulan kurt Vile's Second Symphony,

780
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,439
Speaker 2: and Eric Satis Socrates. She actually even intervened to keep

781
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 2: Eric Setti out of jail while he was writing Socrates,

782
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 2: like a libel suit was brought against him or something.

783
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 2: She's like, hang on, let him finish this shit that

784
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 2: I paid for already.

785
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: He's busy. You don't have time for jail. He's busy

786
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 1: right now.

787
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 2: He was like, okay, here's the commission fee, and here's

788
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 2: for your bail. And she kept up her weekly concerts

789
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 2: at her house. She was hosting the first performances of

790
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,760
Speaker 2: many of these pieces, in addition to performances from names

791
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 2: like the dancer Isidora Duncan, the composer Nadia boulangeres Armand

792
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 2: de Paulagnac, cole porter Darius Milhoude. She also bankrolledge Diagilev's

793
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 2: Ballet Rouss on several occasions, and apparently got very jealous

794
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,359
Speaker 2: of the money that she spent on Stravinsky. He said,

795
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 2: quote Renard is just some scraps he found in his

796
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:43,959
Speaker 2: dresser drawer.

797
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: Wow, man, artists are so petty, they're so Petty.

798
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 2: Ay, this is another reason why I would be so

799
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 2: fun to go, because you just like listen to these

800
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 2: bitches complain about each other. Apparently also went to another

801
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,959
Speaker 2: of his great supporters, who was Coco Chanel.

802
00:41:57,800 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 1: Oh famed Nazi.

803
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 2: Famed Nazi sympathizer col Kerschannel, and he told her that

804
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 2: Winneretta had given him seventy five thousand francs, but he

805
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 2: was still broke and the Belly Roost needed some support

806
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 2: or whatever. And Chanelle, speaking of Petty, grabbed her check

807
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 2: book and replied, quote, the Princess de Polagnak is a

808
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 2: grand American lady. I am only a steamstress. Here is

809
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:25,399
Speaker 2: two hundred thousand. Wow, what a bitch?

810
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: Well, I who am I? I'm just a poor seamstress.

811
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 1: Here's okay, here's more than double what she gave you.

812
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 2: Rescribe the aglae though, because he knew exactly what to say,

813
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 2: like you knew he said that, I'll put huh. Definitely,

814
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,359
Speaker 2: I didn't get enough from Winneretta. Who can I.

815
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: I know, see, he's Petty knows Petty, Petty knows, he

816
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 1: sees it, he knows it, he sees it, and he

817
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 1: uses it.

818
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 2: Let me fan the spite from Coker channel to fund

819
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:50,320
Speaker 2: my ballet.

820
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Well, also, if y'all like Vivaldi, oh

821
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:59,320
Speaker 1: the four Seasons you're hearing now. In Winneretta's time, Vivaldi

822
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 1: was well known to classical music connoisseurs. It was a

823
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: very particular, you know, it was the Vivaldi was the

824
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: punk rock of his dad. You only knew if you

825
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 1: were really in.

826
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 2: It, if you were like music, you got it.

827
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 1: But he actually might have faded into obscurity over time

828
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:22,320
Speaker 1: if it weren't for Winnaeretta and her friend Olga Rudge.

829
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,879
Speaker 1: Olga Rudge was a violinist and actually Ezra Pounds long

830
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 1: term mistress, speakingism and and Olga was also a frequent

831
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: collaborator with the pianist and singer Renata Borgatti, who we

832
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier. Renata Borgotti had a fling with Winneretta. More

833
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:43,320
Speaker 1: spiderweb here, Yeah, exactly right now. According to the Lotsa

834
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 1: Contorni Polignac dot com, Olga was researching early music in

835
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,720
Speaker 1: Dresden in the nineteen thirties and she found a pile

836
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:56,839
Speaker 1: of Vivaldi manuscripts, mostly a violin concerti, and she transcribed

837
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:00,359
Speaker 1: these manuscripts. She brought them back to Venice. I think

838
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 1: there's something here. It's Vivaldi violin hello, and Winneretta like, yeah,

839
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 1: this looks good to me, opened up her pocketbook for

840
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: Olga and Ezra pound to fund a publication of these works. Now,

841
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 1: most of the work Olga discovered hadn't been played in

842
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 1: the public for over two hundred years, so Winneretta started

843
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 1: to include them in her concerts, and of course this

844
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 1: just contributed to this overall revival of appreciation for Vivaldi.

845
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 1: And now every time a fancy rich people seen comes

846
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 1: on a TV show, you're going to hear this right exactly.

847
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 1: It is synonymous with high culture, right.

848
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 2: And how funny is it that Vivaldi needed a patron

849
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 2: in his time and then two hundred years later it

850
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 2: required another wealthy person to keep his music relevant. I'm like, like,

851
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 2: just to back to our conversation about egots or whatever.

852
00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:58,760
Speaker 2: The money really does matter.

853
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: It does? It does, It does, and again.

854
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 2: It's frustrating, but it does.

855
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 1: If you right now want to contribute to art, we

856
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 1: will take your contributions. And if you are listening to

857
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 1: this episode two hundred years from its publication day. You

858
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:18,879
Speaker 1: can still fund our work, that's right, you know, revive it,

859
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 1: bring it back, and then find us. Use your future

860
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: life phrase to bring us back. If it's a good future.

861
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 1: If it's not, y'all, y'all, y'all can have it. But

862
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 1: if we fixed all these problems, I'd love to see.

863
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 2: It, uh huh, Yeah, back these our brains or whatever.

864
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: And yeah, and we'll can upload us or we'll bring

865
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 1: you more ancient art from the twenty first century.

866
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 2: Yeah it's vintage, thank you.

867
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 1: Ye. Yeah.

868
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 2: But Winneretta did not just spend her money on music

869
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,879
Speaker 2: and painting. Sure, however important that is. When the Great

870
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 2: War broke out in nineteen fourteen, when pretty much every

871
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,319
Speaker 2: nation was plunged into an economic depression after it, and

872
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 2: during the Second World War, Winneretta spent her money where

873
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,760
Speaker 2: she thought it was needed the most, on the poor.

874
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 2: Imagine that, and we'll hear all about her public service

875
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:11,280
Speaker 2: right after this break.

876
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: Welcome back, everybody.

877
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 2: So Winneretta singer Paula yak knew that a lot of

878
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,839
Speaker 2: people were not as lucky as she was in her

879
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 2: financial situation, but instead of turning her back on them,

880
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 2: she chose to help.

881
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 1: Look, there's a lesson in somebody who knows how to

882
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: use their money, right, all right, And I tell you

883
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 1: what she helped. She funded a ton of arts, she

884
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: funded a ton of poor people. And you know what,

885
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: she was still rich, Hella rich, You can still do

886
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: it rich.

887
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, she had no second mortgage on her palazzo.

888
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,720
Speaker 1: She was doing all right, you can fund the arts

889
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:53,879
Speaker 1: and feed the poor and still be rich.

890
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,320
Speaker 2: You can still be Hella comfortable. So in nineteen eleven,

891
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 2: Winneretta funded the building of a housing project for the

892
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,720
Speaker 2: working poor, and it actually became a model for future

893
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:07,799
Speaker 2: affordable public housing projects because when Auretta included things like

894
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 2: modern appliances indoor plumbing, she made sure the building had

895
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 2: a lot of natural light and safety features for children.

896
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 2: Like she was thinking about human beings living there, yeah,

897
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,800
Speaker 2: instead of just like, let's make the most uncomfortable prison

898
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 2: cell looking place dang and dark that we can. Now.

899
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 2: During the Great War, she went to all her rich

900
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 2: friends and she's like, you ain't driving it, And she

901
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:34,919
Speaker 2: amassed a fleet of limousines, oh that they all had,

902
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:39,799
Speaker 2: and she funded their conversion into ambulances and mobile radiology

903
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,800
Speaker 2: units and the guidance of none other than Madam Marie Kirie.

904
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness.

905
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,360
Speaker 2: So these limos end up rumbling to the front lines

906
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 2: to help wounded soldiers.

907
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Cool. Well, after the war, Winneretta collaborated

908
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 1: with another wealthy American expat, Consuela Vanderbilt, the Duchess of Marlborough.

909
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 1: They constructed a three hundred and sixty bed hospital in

910
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:06,720
Speaker 1: a suburb of Paris, specifically to treat middle class workers.

911
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 1: It's called the Fush Hospital, and it is still in

912
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:14,800
Speaker 1: operation today. In fact, it's rated the top hospital in France,

913
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 1: especially if you need a kidney transplant. So maybe one

914
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 1: day I'll be swinging by there, I.

915
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 2: Know, right, I hope not. I was thinking to you though, Look.

916
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,840
Speaker 1: I just get kidney stones a lot. It's true, probably

917
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:31,280
Speaker 1: partly because a particular period of my life where I

918
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: almost exclusively drank energy drinks. So please PSA for the day,

919
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 1: get away from that poison.

920
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 2: It's not good for you.

921
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 1: The worst.

922
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 2: I are you back.

923
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 1: I think they're sponsors that I didn't say any names.

924
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:49,840
Speaker 1: You didn't. Well, this hospital also includes a nursing school,

925
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: so a bunch of really great stuff happening here because

926
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 1: of Winneretta and Consuelo. She was also a patron of

927
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:00,760
Speaker 1: the scientist Eduard Branlee, who was the first to invent

928
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:06,320
Speaker 1: a wireless telegraph. Winneretta also kept up her public housing projects.

929
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 1: She commissioned the modern architect Le Corbusier to build or

930
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 1: reconstruct several shelters for the homeless, as well as shelters

931
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 1: for battered or abandoned women and children for Paris's Salvation Army. So,

932
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,760
Speaker 1: just a lot of really good She's just like, I

933
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: need to do good things. I mean, I've been leaning

934
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 1: good life. I got a lot of money and just

935
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: handed to me and kind of because my dad made

936
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 1: a sewing machine. Okay, uh, time to start doing some

937
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 1: good in the world.

938
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love that she didn't turn her back on

939
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 2: people like that, right, she really she was like, I

940
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 2: have all this money and no one to spend it on.

941
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 2: She didn't have kids of her own or anything like that.

942
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 2: She's just like, what am I supposed to do? But

943
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 2: to make the world around me a better place.

944
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 1: And then she's like, I ha done, snatched up all

945
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 1: the buildings on land that I can. So she bought

946
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 1: a barge that La Corbusierre remodeled into a floating homeless

947
00:49:56,040 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 1: shelter in the winter. Oh so now it's like, not

948
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 1: only can this can I house the homeless on land?

949
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 1: I can also do it on sea.

950
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 2: Listen, you gotta use whatever space you.

951
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 1: Got, right, And this also became a children's camp in

952
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 1: the summer, and it was moored on the sand river.

953
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 2: That's right. Apparently in like twenty eighteen they were like

954
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:21,359
Speaker 2: historic rain there in France and it got brought on floodwaters.

955
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 2: And so now that barge is at the bottom of

956
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 2: the seind Oh, and they're trying to pull it back up.

957
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 2: I don't know if they have or not.

958
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 1: Sure, let's go.

959
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 2: It's very interesting that he because he apparently look for

960
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,760
Speaker 2: Corbisier was like, I thought it was a really cool challenge.

961
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,479
Speaker 2: He was, you know, a very limited space. You can't

962
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,839
Speaker 2: add on a lot to a barge, so he's trying

963
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:44,240
Speaker 2: to fit as many beds and it as possible and stuff.

964
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:46,839
Speaker 2: So he probably really enjoyed that commission, which is kind

965
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 2: of cool.

966
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:50,360
Speaker 1: See it could be fun to help people too.

967
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 2: What a thing.

968
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 1: It just really in a philanthropy this episode.

969
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 2: No, right, Well, it's hard not to be inspired by

970
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 2: winterreda if I had a lot of money, I hope

971
00:50:57,719 --> 00:50:58,359
Speaker 2: I would be a winner.

972
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,400
Speaker 1: Retto, Yeah, yeah, let's find out. If anybody wants to

973
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 1: give us a lot of money, we'll show you what

974
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 1: kind of people we are.

975
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 2: You don't want to be Winnaretta, yourself, Let me be

976
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 2: with your money now. In nineteen thirty nine, when the

977
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 2: Second World.

978
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 1: War broke out, the sequel nobody wanted.

979
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 2: Exactly, a horrible sequel. Winneretta was actually back in Devonshire

980
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:23,280
Speaker 2: because her younger brother had died, and because of travel

981
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 2: embargoes and stuff like that, she never really got to

982
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,399
Speaker 2: return to her beloved parish. Sure, but you know, our

983
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 2: girls stayed active. She organized concerts and charitable events for

984
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 2: the Red Cross. She made friends with big British music

985
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 2: names of the day, Palazzo Contarini. Poliniac says that she

986
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 2: frequently considered actually going home to America, but she just

987
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 2: could not bring herself to get on a plane. She

988
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 2: did not have the courage to get on an airplane.

989
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:49,840
Speaker 1: Oh yes, sure, sure so.

990
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 2: In nineteen forty three, during a bombing in London in

991
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 2: the Blitz, Winneretta died of a heart attack at the

992
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 2: age of seventy eight aw Man. She was buried in

993
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 2: the family crypt in Turkey, England, and the newspaper Le

994
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 2: Figaro in Paris published her obituary a year later, and

995
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 2: they kind of explained the gap in coverage, writing quote,

996
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 2: the events and subjugation of free speech in France made

997
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 2: it impossible to speak in a manner befitting the Princess

998
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 2: Edmond de Polignac and the homage she deserves. It is

999
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 2: impossible to write a chronicle of the twentieth century without

1000
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:32,400
Speaker 2: including the salon on Avenue Henri Martin and the Palazzo

1001
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 2: on the Grand Canal.

1002
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, for real, which is so true.

1003
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:37,760
Speaker 2: I think we talked about that a little in Colette

1004
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 2: as well. Yeah, not that she died in forty three,

1005
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:42,839
Speaker 2: but that just it was nobody could say anything because

1006
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 2: it was occupied France, so you couldn't really talk about

1007
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 2: all of the amazing homosexual people that made France so

1008
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:51,800
Speaker 2: incredible and unique in the twenties.

1009
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 1: It's trying not to get bogged down in it, but it's

1010
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 1: heartbreaking to me that she died in forty three. France

1011
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 1: was liberated in forty four, so she did not get

1012
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 1: to see and know that Paris was returned. You know

1013
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 1: that it didn't stay. You know, you only hope that,

1014
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know what kind of foresight do

1015
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 1: you have during a war to know what's going to

1016
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 1: happen at the end of it. But yeah, true, But

1017
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: it is sad to me that she died while Paris

1018
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 1: was occupied by the worst people of all time, you know.

1019
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 2: So I do wonder if she thought, well, will we

1020
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 2: ever get out of this? Was never ending? Is Germany

1021
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 2: going to win? I mean, forty three is a pretty

1022
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:31,720
Speaker 2: low point.

1023
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, but I'm but you can't see why it

1024
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:37,759
Speaker 1: took them until after forty four to be able to

1025
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 1: say anything about it. But I'm glad that they they

1026
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 1: did loudly. Yeah, you know, they really came out and

1027
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 1: were like, let me wait, we didn't drop the ball

1028
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 1: on this, y'all. We got something to say. Yeah, you

1029
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 1: know that's great. Now today, Winnoretta's good work is still

1030
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 1: being carried on by the Foundation singer Paulagnac that she

1031
00:53:57,080 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 1: had in Doubt in nineteen twenty eight, which they are

1032
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 1: dedicated to funding science, literature, the arts, culture, and French

1033
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 1: philanthropy through gifts and travel scholarships and the foundation inherited

1034
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:12,960
Speaker 1: Winnaretta's mansion and they still hold concerts there today. They

1035
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 1: elevate the next generation of French music. Yeah.

1036
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,239
Speaker 2: I looked at the artists that I don't they're no

1037
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 2: one I've heard of but for a while, right, Yeah,

1038
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 2: they seem very cool. A lot of trios and cool

1039
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 2: like class musicians. Yeah.

1040
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 1: Now, look, Winneretta. This is a woman obviously who had

1041
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:35,840
Speaker 1: an incredible eye and ear for the unique, you know,

1042
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 1: just stuff you hadn't really thought of much before. She

1043
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:39,720
Speaker 1: wanted to put it front and center.

1044
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:40,400
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1045
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,240
Speaker 1: And and the fact that she continues to shape arts

1046
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 1: and culture even after her death. It's pretty incredible, right

1047
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,359
Speaker 1: for real. I mean that's the thing is like part

1048
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:53,240
Speaker 1: of that, Like we were talking about earlier funding the arts,

1049
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 1: it's going to have an impact long beyond your time here,

1050
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 1: Like stuff you don't even It's like planting a tree

1051
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: that you know you're never going to see it its

1052
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 1: full height, but you also know that it one day

1053
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 1: will be at that full height. And that's something special, I.

1054
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 2: Think, and it's a special mind. Yeah, you can think

1055
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 2: of that. I think we talked about that with Olmsted,

1056
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 2: the park designer. He designed Central Park, Yeah, and also

1057
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 2: Piedmont Park here in Atlanta. Yeah, but he always talked

1058
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 2: about that. He's like, if you're a landscape architect, you're

1059
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:24,800
Speaker 2: picturing a park that is full grown, but you're building

1060
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 2: a park that is new, and it don't look like

1061
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 2: your mind's eye and you might never see your mind's

1062
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 2: eye vision because it's supposed to be fifty one hundred

1063
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 2: years from now, which I think just that kind of

1064
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 2: long term vision is such a unique skill set. Like

1065
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's just a fascinating.

1066
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:43,959
Speaker 1: Right, and that's a harp on it, but it's so

1067
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 1: important this idea, especially that, like I don't know, if

1068
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 1: you have any sort of inkling about whether or not

1069
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 1: you have an existence after death, you know, and then

1070
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:57,799
Speaker 1: does the state of the world matter to you in

1071
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 1: that existence wherever you are, then you might want to consider, right,

1072
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:05,880
Speaker 1: you know, also just consider what you know is happening

1073
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:08,240
Speaker 1: to your name. Do you want to be the most

1074
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 1: hated person or a forgotten person or a person who

1075
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 1: is hundreds of years later being celebrated. Yeah, they were

1076
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:16,799
Speaker 1: the wonderful things they.

1077
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:20,879
Speaker 2: Did and associated with so many like beautiful works of art,

1078
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 2: I mean, insanely beautiful compositions. I was listening to a

1079
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:27,560
Speaker 2: lot of these. I'm not a classical music connoisseur by

1080
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:30,240
Speaker 2: any means, right, so I was like, who's Poolong, Who's

1081
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 2: Eric Seti? And I listened to a lot of these

1082
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 2: while researching this, and they're all incredible, of course they are,

1083
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 2: but like, right, I don't know, It's just it's just

1084
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 2: amazing to have that kind of heart and that kind

1085
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 2: of ear for those whotch of things and know what's

1086
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 2: going to touch people insane so intensely that we are

1087
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:52,760
Speaker 2: still listening to Seti and still go into the Lincoln

1088
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 2: Center and stuff to hear the string quartet opus one

1089
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:58,799
Speaker 2: three or whatever, Like she knew what would stick.

1090
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 1: And I think that's the thing too, is that we

1091
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:03,080
Speaker 1: talked about funding a work of art and it's the

1092
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 1: work or if you're saying, like, imagine, you know, being

1093
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:09,319
Speaker 1: part of this one particular thing, but you also have

1094
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:11,759
Speaker 1: to consider that art is yeah, like a string in

1095
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 1: a tapestry, right, like it is part of a larger

1096
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 1: culture and that culture we live in, like regardless, So

1097
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 1: each piece of art, right, and each conversation, each thing

1098
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 1: that happens is obviously part of a larger hole that

1099
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 1: we have to live in. How people are being influenced

1100
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:31,480
Speaker 1: to what their behavior is like. You know, are you

1101
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 1: in a miserable hell hole or are you in kind

1102
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:39,080
Speaker 1: of a golden age? And that often comes from people

1103
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:43,920
Speaker 1: supporting art with money, And there's just it's so like

1104
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 1: winter at a show in here. It's not hard to

1105
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 1: have a lot of money and spend a lot of

1106
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 1: money on stuff. That's not a financial investment return, but

1107
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 1: it's a cultural investment return. The world you live in

1108
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 1: is better. And guess what, most of the time you

1109
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 1: still have a lot of money. There aren't a lot

1110
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 1: of wealthy donors and patrons out there who are like, well,

1111
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 1: I used to be rich, but then I funded the arts,

1112
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 1: so now it's gone. There's plenty. Uh huh, you got plenty.

1113
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 2: And back to the foundation that she ended out, uh

1114
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 2: huh has no other funding source than her endowment. So today, wow, Wow,

1115
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 2: she had enough money that that foundation is going strong.

1116
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, very credible, incredible And she never suffered for cash,

1117
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 1: not at all, you know, not a once, not a once.

1118
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 1: Just incredible. Uh. The American diplomat Moral Cody said it

1119
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 1: best about Winneretta. He said, quote Winneretta Singer was the

1120
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:44,440
Speaker 1: woman among us who decisively shaped and directed and nourished

1121
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 1: the social and artistic and literary life of the young. Yeah.

1122
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 1: I mean again, just setting up the present and the future. Yeah.

1123
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:59,920
Speaker 1: I think it's really amazing stuff. It's so absolutely vital

1124
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:04,560
Speaker 1: to a healthy society. Sorry, it just is. We got

1125
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:07,840
Speaker 1: tens of thousands of years of evidence to pull from.

1126
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 2: So true.

1127
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 1: So stop being dumb and der money on artists. Georgia

1128
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:18,320
Speaker 1: the lowest arts funded state in the country, Throw some

1129
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 1: cash out there to make it work. I know we

1130
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 1: don't need to get you started. We don't, miss Queen

1131
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 1: of the nonprofits. Huh.

1132
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:27,320
Speaker 2: But I just you know, I love to you that

1133
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:32,600
Speaker 2: She never she never commissioned Stravinsky or anything thinking oh

1134
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:33,440
Speaker 2: this is gonna hit.

1135
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1136
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 2: She commissioned him because she liked it. Yeah, she thought

1137
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 2: it sounded good. And she's like, you know what, hey,

1138
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:40,960
Speaker 2: I write something else. I'm going to give you enough

1139
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:43,479
Speaker 2: money that you don't have to work or run around

1140
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 2: or worry about your rent or whatever. All you need

1141
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 2: to be doing is working on your music. The same

1142
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 2: with Faret when she gave him her palazzo in Venice

1143
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 2: for a minute, go take a load of like you're tired, man,

1144
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 2: like go, which is the other thing is so frustrating.

1145
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 2: Everyone's supposed to do art as there like hobby or

1146
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:04,160
Speaker 2: second thing, and like also be supporting their life.

1147
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

1148
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and how many how many artists can't right now

1149
01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 2: listening to this say, oh, if I just had time

1150
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 2: off where you don't have to worry about anything, not

1151
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 2: a pause because there's a pandemic going on, but like

1152
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 2: just a forced vacation where all my whole thing is

1153
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:22,680
Speaker 2: to sit and create.

1154
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 1: Well, and again even that it's not really vacation, because

1155
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 1: we talk about a lot, you know, you and I

1156
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:31,200
Speaker 1: talk about how when you're creating it often looks like

1157
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 1: time off and it's not. It's work, right, and it yeah,

1158
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:37,120
Speaker 1: it's time off if I'm just kicking back and being like, oh,

1159
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 1: right later, I'm gonna play some video games for a while.

1160
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:42,480
Speaker 1: But sitting there with the blank page in a quiet

1161
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:45,200
Speaker 1: space with some music on, you know, with a window

1162
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 1: by the sea or whatever, it doesn't even have to

1163
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 1: be that that's work, and it's that it's hard work,

1164
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 1: and it's frustrating work, and it's challenging work. And also

1165
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:57,240
Speaker 1: I was going to say that she likely did that

1166
01:00:57,320 --> 01:00:59,240
Speaker 1: for lots of people whose names we don't know too

1167
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 1: about exactly, because she didn't. It wasn't like everyone I

1168
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 1: fund is a hit. She was like, I'm throwing money

1169
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 1: out to a bunch of stuff, and some of these

1170
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 1: people are gonna be really impressive.

1171
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, are they gonna last as long as they last

1172
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 2: like the ballet roost or something like, They're gonna do

1173
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 2: whatever they can do and whatever time they have, and

1174
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 2: that's okay, Like they don't have to be you know,

1175
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 2: still going on.

1176
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And a lot of artists exist within their

1177
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:30,040
Speaker 1: own time with with great importance and skill and you know,

1178
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:33,960
Speaker 1: incredible works and that's all they are, and that's that's great.

1179
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:37,680
Speaker 1: Too much needed, And also to your point about just

1180
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 1: being able to go do your work without him a

1181
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:44,120
Speaker 1: worry about it. Bob Dylan retired, he was like, I'm

1182
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 1: done making music. I'm gonna go sit in a cabin

1183
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:49,840
Speaker 1: by myself fair a while. And he went there. He

1184
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:54,440
Speaker 1: sat down and something like night two, he's like he

1185
01:01:57,240 --> 01:02:00,800
Speaker 1: didn't you And he's like, wait a second, and he

1186
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:06,360
Speaker 1: wrote like a rolling stone because he was just away.

1187
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 1: He's just got to separate himself for a minute. He

1188
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:10,919
Speaker 1: wrote like a rolling Stone, like one of the most

1189
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 1: epic poems. Yes, the music of all time.

1190
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:16,680
Speaker 2: I really think that is what happened with Fret. I

1191
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 2: think she was really like, you are burnt out, go relax.

1192
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:25,120
Speaker 2: But while he's relaxing, he's inspired and regenerated. He's like

1193
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 2: in Venice, it's beautiful, there's music and art all around him.

1194
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 2: He's got something to be inspired by. He strolls by

1195
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:33,920
Speaker 2: the canal every day, sees the gondolas. He's like thinking

1196
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:36,880
Speaker 2: about something that strikes a chord. Next thing you know,

1197
01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:39,720
Speaker 2: you're writing sonk melody, Like you know what I mean

1198
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 2: of Venice, Like he couldn't have written that Venus. So

1199
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:47,360
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's just something to be said about. Like,

1200
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:50,840
Speaker 2: like you said, a lot of creativity and creation can

1201
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:56,360
Speaker 2: look like idleness or oh you're walking around looking at

1202
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:59,680
Speaker 2: the freaking stars or nature or something, and it looks

1203
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 2: like you're just indulging yourself, and in a way, you are.

1204
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:07,440
Speaker 2: Because art is about taking in and reflecting and expressing.

1205
01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:09,520
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that is what it is. So if

1206
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:11,280
Speaker 2: you lived in a little cave your whole life, what

1207
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:13,480
Speaker 2: kind of art could you really make you have to

1208
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:17,520
Speaker 2: go out and experience and react to things around you,

1209
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:21,320
Speaker 2: and exactly so, I just I just love that she's

1210
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:23,400
Speaker 2: straight up like, you know, Gabriel, you look in a

1211
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:28,200
Speaker 2: little worn. Let's just give you a wonderful vacation and

1212
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 2: guess what happened. You're gonna make something great. But even

1213
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:32,440
Speaker 2: if he hadn't, that's not why she sensed it.

1214
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:34,840
Speaker 1: Exactly Exactly what I'm trying.

1215
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 2: To say is I need a vacation and I will

1216
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 2: write sunk melody to buddies.

1217
01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:44,680
Speaker 1: Look, and one last point here that I think is

1218
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 1: really important to once again a massive cultural influence, a

1219
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:56,320
Speaker 1: massive period of history and a surge in in just

1220
01:03:56,480 --> 01:04:01,080
Speaker 1: in cultural benefit that we owe all to the let's right,

1221
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 1: you know, that's right. It just keeps happening.

1222
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:03,880
Speaker 2: That's right.

1223
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:07,720
Speaker 1: They're great people and just the LGBT crowd in general.

1224
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 1: Of course, I am also very amen, very good at contributing,

1225
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 1: very true.

1226
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:17,320
Speaker 2: Dioga liv also homosexual. We had plenty of homosexual affairs

1227
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 2: as well.

1228
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 1: So this one goes out to the lesbians.

1229
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:23,640
Speaker 2: This one is for the lesbians of bellipowk Paris and

1230
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:25,160
Speaker 2: also today.

1231
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:28,560
Speaker 1: Yea, yep, yeah, oh what a great story.

1232
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:29,760
Speaker 2: I Loretta.

1233
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:32,080
Speaker 1: I love Winneretta, and we've got more to tell of

1234
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:35,040
Speaker 1: Winneretta because we're going to get into those lesbian relationships

1235
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 1: more specifically next time.

1236
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:39,760
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but everyone I looked up, I was just like, what,

1237
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:43,080
Speaker 2: they all have some crazy shit going on with their romances,

1238
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 2: So we're going to try to condense them all under

1239
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 2: one episode's stay tuned, It's coming back true. So got

1240
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 2: to say thanks again to Seth Bats at Seth Sculptures

1241
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 2: for this wonderful suggestion, because we got three episode actually

1242
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:02,439
Speaker 2: and it's been really fun. So thank you so much

1243
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:05,760
Speaker 2: to Seth. And if you have any suggestions or anything

1244
01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 2: you'd like to say about Winneretta or a show or us,

1245
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:12,000
Speaker 2: or just you know, I don't know. If you have

1246
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:14,560
Speaker 2: some bank roll and you want to give us some

1247
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 2: money for our next amazing projects or vacation or whatever,

1248
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 2: please reach out. It's ridict Romance at.

1249
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:21,920
Speaker 1: Gmail dot com, that's right, or you can find us

1250
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:22,880
Speaker 1: on Instagram as well.

1251
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 2: I'm at O Great as Elive, I'm at Dianamite Boom.

1252
01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:29,200
Speaker 1: And follow the show at ridict Romance Great.

1253
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 2: I love hearing from y'all always, so wonderful.

1254
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 1: Thanks for tuning in, We love you, Catch you next

1255
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:35,320
Speaker 1: time Bright.

1256
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:40,080
Speaker 3: So long friends, it's time to go. Thanks for listening

1257
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:44,120
Speaker 3: to our show. Tell your friends names uncles, and to

1258
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:46,400
Speaker 3: listen to a show Ridiculous Rollmans