WEBVTT - 2024: A Year to Remember 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:06.200 Welcome Attrillians. 0:00:06.240 --> 0:00:09.600 I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric bell Cheerness. 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:13.760 We're almost there. It's almost twenty twenty five. 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:15.480 Yeah, but is it. 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:18.360 But before we do anything about twenty twenty five, we 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:20.000 have to do a year in review episode. 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.200 Yeah, especially this year. It was unbelievabe. 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:27.720 Up, this is the most interesting, exciting, best year ever 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:30.000 for ETFs. I'm just saying that right now. 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:32.800 There's never been a better year ever. Twenty twenty one 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:34.400 was right up there. This was better. 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:38.840 This is remember that movie as good as it gets. Yeah, 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:41.159 this is as good as it gets. So everybody, just 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:44.279 take a deep breath, savor it. 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:46.000 It just can't be this good every year. 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:48.720 Okay, that makes me really worried about twenty twenty five, 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:50.960 but right now maybe feeling Okay. 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:52.480 Listen, the key to life is to enjoy the good 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:54.680 times and don't have your mind somewhere else. 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:56.880 Okay, all right, live in the moment. I like it. 0:00:57.080 --> 0:00:59.680 So to help us process the moments that made up 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:02.360 the year, we're going to be joined by Vildona Hirich 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:06.720 of Bloomberg News. She's a cross asset reporter, also a 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:11.240 frequent guest on Trillians. Todd Rosenbluth, an ETF analyst at Vetify, 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:15.160 also a frequent guest on Trains and rounding out our panel, 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:20.479 Athanasio ser Vegas, an analyst with Eric at Bloomberg Intelligence, 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:30.080 this time on Trillions a Year to Remember Dona Todd, Athan, 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:33.640 Welcome back to Trillians. Nice to see you, Thanks for 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:34.080 having us. 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:35.120 It's great to be back. 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:38.199 All right, Well, we've got a format for this round robin. 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:41.679 We're gonna go around. We're gonna hear everybody suggest a 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:44.000 theme that they want to talk about that they think 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:48.800 distinguishes this year. Athan, you're in London right now. Good 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:51.480 to see you on our screen. Talk to us about 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:54.400 what is your number one theme for the year. 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:58.040 Oh, it's I guess the most obvious, but probably the 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:02.200 most important, and that's just record flows US past the 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:05.040 trillion and inflows. I think we just have to appreciate 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:07.720 that number, right, Like when you say a trillion in 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:10.560 inflows this year, I think it was like high nine 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:14.000 hundreds and twenty twenty one. Obviously we had the market 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:17.840 participated in that, but what I thought was even more fascinating. Yeah, 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:20.720 so trillion in the US, but every region hit a 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:25.120 record this year. Europe Canada, Asia Pacific. So it's just 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:27.360 this amazing. What I love about the ETF is that 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:31.600 it's just hitting all over the world. It's like transcending geography. 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:34.720 So that I think was by far the most Probably 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:36.679 the biggest thing to take away from this is that's 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:38.440 just been a record all over the world. 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:41.000 And let me add to that with some numbers. Eight 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:43.560 and I agree, that's the story of the year. The 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:46.160 record was nine hundred and ten billion, give a ticket 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.040 called a billion depending on what data service you ask, 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:51.280 So a trillion is ninety you know, almost ten percent 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:55.560 over the record obviously, but here's also something interesting. If 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:59.359 you look globally, as Athan was alluding to, the assets 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:02.720 went from at eleven trillion to fifteen trillion. That is 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:06.480 a thirty two percent growth rate for an industry that's 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:09.359 thirty plus years old. Now, the growth rate when ETF 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:12.040 started out was twenty five percent because it was small 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:15.720 assets easy to grow those numbers when you're small. The 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:21.240 next decade was seventeen percent, and so we're predicting ten 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:23.160 percent a year going forward to get to thirty five 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:26.600 trillion in twenty thirty five. Well, thirty two percent is 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:29.920 so beyond what I would ever assume now of that 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:34.120 thirty two percent number, about four tenths is from the flows, 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:38.320 six tenths is from the market, So the market won't 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:40.000 be this good. As I said, this is as good 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:42.960 as it gets probably, but the flows, being that big 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:47.080 of a contributor, is really strong. That thirty two percent 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:50.280 number again astonishing if you had asked me again. We 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:52.400 predict ten percent a year going forward, so thirty two 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:53.040 is ridiculous. 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:56.000 If there's something can add to that too, just at 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:58.520 the issuer level, right, Yeah, while it's a record for 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:01.320 the whole industry, it's not just Black Rock and Vanguard, 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:03.440 but like seventy percent of the firms have had their 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:06.520 best year ever this year, so it's the breath is 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:10.720 winding out. So you have several issuers all hitting records 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:12.560 this year, which I thought was also really impressive. 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:14.800 And do you want to know, I'm gonna I'm it's 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.640 gonna quiz you guys, what percentage of ETFs in the US. 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.479 There's thirty eight hundred, what percent saw inflows this year? 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:24.080 Get it between five percent and I'll give you a prize. 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:30.320 I'll go with eighty seventy five sixty six, So you 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:33.760 don't get the prize, but I was the prize, one 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:36.839 of the one of those gold coins that Todd brought 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:38.280 I was gonna give you. 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:40.839 We haven't even had a chance to introduce what I 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:41.320 brought it. 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:44.600 Todd. I noticed that you brought some gold coins, chocolate 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:46.320 gold coins, trying to sway favor. 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:49.120 Listen, I don't think there's a judge and jury on this. 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:51.599 The audience is going to decide which of us does 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:52.280 the best job. 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:55.480 I'm gonna sample your the chocolate you should. 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:57.320 So this is an early Honkka present for those that 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:00.840 can't see this very visual podcast. I have a basket 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:04.200 of delt chocolate covered coins. 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:06.400 You talked about everything as baskets when you're in the 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:09.360 ATF world. This is just a little bag of chocolate. 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:12.400 It is when it's closed up, it is a basket. 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:12.680 Okay. 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:16.320 Is that Is that a store of value? It is? 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:16.880 It is. 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:20.000 There's tangible diminishing because I'm eating the chocolate. 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:23.839 There is tangibility behind this. But I would note these 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:26.320 come from Trader Joe's not a sponsor, I don't think. 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:28.800 But they're called coins of the world because we are 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:30.240 taking it. 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:33.000 Okay, Todd, let's do you next, what's your your theme 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:33.440 of the year. 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:38.479 Well, mine piggybacking on what Athan said, but it's VU 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:42.599 crossing the one hundred billion dollar marked with assets for 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:47.600 or inflows for one individual ETF and IVV, which actually 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.640 got passed by VU in terms of total assets briefly 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:53.600 had sixty billion dollars. That would have been a new 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:56.640 record on its own if it wasn't for Vanguard five 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:59.920 hundred ETF. So those two ETFs just setting a record 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:05.280 is tremendous, is a great sign. Most investors probably start 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:09.560 their their ETF journey with a core S and P 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:11.560 five hundred based products, so that I think that sets 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:14.559 the stage for the next thirty plus years for people 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:17.039 who are going to add additional products. So one hundred 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:20.279 billion dollars sixty billion dollars, that's amazing. 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:21.360 Think about that. 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:26.360 That's two billion dollars a week into one fund. Two 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:28.480 billion for a firm after five years. 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:29.839 On the market. Is good. 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:32.720 So Vanguard again, we just get so bored of Vanguard, 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:34.400 we get numb to it. But the numbers they put 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:38.200 down are still just absolutely astonishing. Vanguard as a whole 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:41.000 company is taking in a billion a day into their ETFs, 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:43.880 VU at one hundred. Again, that's doubling a record. I 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.440 had the meme of Wilt Chamberlain hold up that one hundred, 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:49.040 which to me, this is as hard to think this 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:51.599 will get broken, you know, like Wilt Chamberlain's record. The 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:53.679 only ETF I could see doing it is VU again, 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:57.480 but absolutely extraordinary. And it reminds us that as much 0:06:57.520 --> 0:07:00.440 as we give attention to this sort of hot sauce, 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:06.560 shiny objects stuff, some of us most tooche no names, yeah, Eric, 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:09.840 the bulk of the blob of money still goes to 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:11.720 cheap beta que beta is. 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:15.160 What is the margin between VU and the runner up 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:15.840 and it's runner up? 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:18.640 Well, it's current runner up right now is IVV, which 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:20.000 is roughly sixty billion dollars. 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:24.520 Now it's fifty four, okay, so it's fifty billion dollars. 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:27.840 It's double the number two basically, I mean that's it's insane. 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:28.960 Yeah. 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:35.240 Why well, mostly because Vanguard's brand for fifty years has 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:37.600 been cheap, so they have this strong brand, trusted brand. 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:39.760 They're a boy scout in an industry that's seen a 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:42.800 lot of corruption. Number two, it's dirt cheap. Three basis 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:45.400 points for the entire SMP the S and P kicks 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:48.360 so much butt and to get that for like basically 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:52.040 no fee and the frictionlessness of it. You just click 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:54.920 a button. You own the entire us capitalism in one shot. 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:58.320 That's why I'm so bo bearish on this direct indexing 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:01.520 and tokenization that it's the best, that's the deal of 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:03.640 the century. You're not going to disrupt that. 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:04.080 For a while. 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:06.800 But to me again, I got a reporter on an 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:09.680 editor in the room. To me, the story is in 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:13.560 VU over IVV by doubling. It's that both of them 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:15.680 crossed the fifty billion dollar mark. 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:17.320 So that's it. It's been a success. 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:20.880 I'm going tension todd like, you know, let's talk about tension. 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:24.480 That's a little too kumbaya. I'm with you. 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:26.360 Where's where was Spy on that list? 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:28.360 By the way, Well, okay, so Spy has these big 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:30.880 decembers because it taxles Harving. So it's rising quickly. It's 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:33.920 number five with thirty billion, but by the end of 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:37.240 the month it could be fifty sixty. It's possible. It's 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:41.600 VU Spy IVV all above the last year's record. I 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:44.440 called them three amigos because they're like always they're like 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:46.680 the three that are tracking the S and P. But 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:48.600 I could see that, but then SPY would lose some 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:50.160 of that in the first quarter because it tax has 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:52.800 harvest thing. But okay, but by the way, one thing 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:56.800 to watch next year, VU and IVV, probably both around 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:59.040 the same time, are going to pass by then it's 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:00.800 like which one of those two will be the new king. 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:03.560 I think VU separates itself in the year after that, 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:05.680 So I think two years from now we're having VU as. 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:06.880 The the undisputed king. 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:07.839 That'll be a big moment. 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:10.160 Black Rock's not gonna let that happen easily though. 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:14.240 Yeah, okay, tensin fil done well. 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:17.120 I was going to add to this, you know, list 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:21.480 of great things for ETFs overall, which is that there 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:24.200 were five hundred and thirty nine active ETF launches, which 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:26.600 is eighty percent of the overall and it was a 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:29.520 year of record launches, right, so active, It was a 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:30.800 big year for active. 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:32.880 Is that your stat because no, it's not. It should be. 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:34.840 I was you should use that. 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:37.000 I have some really good other stats. 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:39.920 Okay, well, yeah, how about that'll be mine. Six hundred 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:44.000 and sixty launches. That's record launches, Joel eighty percent of 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:47.600 them active. The reason launches matter, and it's part of 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:50.319 our support for the thirty five trillion prediction, is that 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:53.920 the more launches you have, the more good ideas you have. 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:57.760 If everybody is here launching products, one of those or 0:09:57.800 --> 0:09:59.880 two of those is going to be the next big idea. 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:03.320 So the innovation factor is at a record pace. And 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:07.760 this year we have an interesting group of big names 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:11.040 coming in. You know, Phil Back said ETFs go Hollywood. 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:11.679 I agree. 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:15.480 We had Noriel Rubini launch a ETF, Tom Lee Rick 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:20.080 Reader late in twenty three but close enough, Jeremy Grantham, 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:23.440 and this Treasury Secretary Scott the Scent is supposed to 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:25.520 have an ETF coming out, but he might withdraw because 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:27.960 he's Treasury secretary, but he was going to launch one. 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:29.640 And I think we could see Bill Ackman at some 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:30.440 point launch one. 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:31.600 Here's the deal. 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:34.560 You know, there was a quote in the nineties Michael 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:37.880 Jordan was asked about like Utah and this other team. Oh, 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:40.000 you're scared it UTA. He's like, look, you could hype 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:42.560 them up. Still got to come through Chicago. Still got 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:45.880 to come through Chicago. If you want a ring badass, right, 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:49.360 that's ETFs. You want the assets you want, flows you want, 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:52.160 customers got to come through ETFs, still got to come 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:54.880 through ETF. So everyone's going to have to come through 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:57.280 ETFs for the most part, minus maybe some hedge funds 0:10:57.360 --> 0:10:59.280 or private equity if they want to be where the 0:10:59.320 --> 0:10:59.720 people are. 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:01.400 When you said big names, I thought you were talking 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:04.880 about acid managers, I mean those big individual names. But MFS, 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:08.280 which launched the first mutual fund ever, or has the 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:12.360 oldest mutual fund entered the ETF marketplace a week or 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:16.200 so ago, oak Mark, which is a proven manager, so 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:18.439 it's hard to count. In fact, I'm not sure I 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:21.480 can even name an active manager that doesn't have in 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:24.520 the ETF presence, either directly or from a subadvisories. 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:27.800 I can name one Ron Baron, and they're thinking about it. 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:29.240 Well about time. 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:32.240 Yeah that's a fifty fifty some billion matager. 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:33.920 You know, you earn yourself a gold coin, Thank you 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:34.360 so much. 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:37.360 MFS interesting because they launched the first ever mutual fund 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:40.880 back in like nineteen twenty three or something. So for 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:44.360 them to finally, you know, come in is I think. 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:47.440 I think everybody is pretty much surrendered at this point. 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:50.200 There's a couple hold out's no doubt, but Morgan Stanley 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:51.080 to me was the big one. 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:52.000 That was last year. 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:54.959 All right, Vildan, if that was your your that was 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:58.080 my extra nonstat stat bring the hammer. Let's hear the 0:11:58.120 --> 0:11:58.480 real one. 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:01.560 Okay. So it was a really big gear for levered 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:05.000 single stock ETFs. I can't believe they haven't come up yet. 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:09.040 This is the hot sauce or the super spicy hot sauce, 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:11.199 the Ghost Pepper hot sauce. 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:13.800 Right, well, they're all flavors. 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:16.280 The Ghost Pepper is the two X micro strategy because 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:20.640 that broke the volatility record. It's the two x micro strategy. 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:22.480 JROL has a volatility of run. 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:23.440 Three hundred percent. 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:27.120 That's a rolling twenty year t QQQ, which is triple leverage. 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:32.080 QUES is a fifth of that, so it's five times 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:35.200 more volatile than three xq's think about. 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:37.600 That's the Ghost Pepper's like a new strain of ghost. 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.760 Well, to step back, there's two of them, right, there's 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:44.640 two of them. There's there's one from Defiance, there's one 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:48.640 from Tuttle and Rex Chairs and they were so big 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:52.480 that they were growing by billions in like days basically, 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:56.520 where at one point I think Tuttle's was over three 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:59.440 point five billion dollars, and that was partly because micro 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:02.400 Strategy going up so much post election, but also people 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:06.240 are adding tons of money. But then overall for levered 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:10.400 single stock ETFs, we had forty five new launches, which 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.559 is a record, although they've only really been in the 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:15.640 US market for a couple of years, but forty five 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:18.920 new ones. Now we're starting to see fee wars there 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:19.520 as well. 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:20.400 That's crazy. 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:22.640 So it's really it's just I think that was one 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:24.840 of the really big stories of the year. 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:27.680 At the beginning of this year, single stock lever gtfs 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.680 had one billion dollars one point three they have twenty 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:34.440 now and like an NVDL two x, Navidia's six billion, 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:38.360 that's will ryan from granite shares. That generates like fifty 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:40.040 million a year in revenue for them because these all 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:43.160 charge one percent, so these are lottery tickets for the issuers. 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:45.920 And not only that, Let's say you get a little 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:47.720 bit of flows like I don't know, one hundred million, 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:50.360 and you're in a stock like Navidia or micro Strategy 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.840 two x, the asset accumulation starts to grow even if 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:56.080 you get no new flows. So the fact that the 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:58.880 stocks are going up a lot. These managers are getting 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:02.520 paid even with no new customers. It's it's really gonna 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:06.960 draw a lot more uh competition. Now we got uh part. 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:11.000 The guy was gonna call them parlay shares, whereas you go, 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:13.839 you get two x coin plus. 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:16.400 Two x Navidia, two x m M micro. 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:20.080 Strategy plus two x u Tesla, so you could like 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:22.000 match these up. And then they have ones that battle 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:24.680 each other, so they got battle shares and like parlay shares, 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:26.000 it's gonna get crazy. 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:26.320 Cotrol. 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:29.880 This is going to yeah when they launch. 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:32.400 I know from a guy who likes the GARP. The 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:35.720 garb bts you both, you guys, listen and tom this is. 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.000 Look, there's a reason one hundred billion dollars went into 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:43.600 one ETF because people like simple, low cost boring. 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:44.240 That's why we. 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.400 See in the team sometimes it's no industry for old 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:50.720 analysts droll, Tod and tom Athan. They're they got like 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:53.920 they like the large cap growth at a reasonable price stuff. 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.400 They this is all like crazy to them. 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:58.600 And I understand that. 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:00.440 That said, I think a lot of this is a 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:03.680 result of the boringness of people's core. The more you 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:05.800 just marry passive and you're like, oh, I'll just wait 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:08.040 thirty years. The more you're like, all right, well, I 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:09.600 don't want to sit there and watch paint try for 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:11.920 thirty years. I want to have a little fun. We'm 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:13.760 not going to mess around with some you know, large 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:15.960 cat manager because I already owned those stocks. I want 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:18.960 something really crazy, something to get my juices flowing. And 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:21.520 that's why I think hot Sauce is an ironic byproduct 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:24.160 of the rise of boring passive. 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:34.240 Build on it. When you take away micro Strategy and Nvidio, 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:39.080 what was the next single stock etf that Tesla? 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:40.960 Definitely, Well, you want something the. 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:43.800 Whole suite, right, It's just like anything that can pop. 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:45.600 That moves a lot, Yes, which is why it was 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.280 so interesting that somebody filed. Actually I think two issuers 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:52.840 filed for Berkshire Hathway, which barely moves, but they filed 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:54.320 for two x h. 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:55.560 Does that make it more fun? 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:58.240 No, it makes it way less fun. So you know, 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:01.360 the question is who if you're wanting the adrenaline, do 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:03.840 you really want to go for something to moose point five? 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:04.560 Yeah? 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.560 And also two x micro Strategy in a way is 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:10.680 four x Bitcoin, so they which you can't do because 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:12.080 micro strategy is two x bitcoin. 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:12.880 These are two x that. 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:15.520 So that's why I also think people are trading it 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:18.040 because there's two x bitcoin ets, But why do two 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:20.200 x when you can do four? And I'll go to 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:24.360 Ethan on this, They've got three x micro strategy. In Europe, 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:26.400 They've got crazier stuff there, but nobody cares. 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.080 Right, Yeah, it's just that they don't have that sort 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:31.880 of gambling culture that they have in They. 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:33.880 They don't like potentially losing money. 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:35.680 There's not many Degen products there. 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:38.080 There's by the way, five x Nasdaq here that no 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:40.920 would They've been around for years with no as. 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:42.560 If that was here, it'd be a jillion dollars. 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:46.320 Could you imagine five x Nasdaq? I was salivating. 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:49.160 I was touring around Switzerland this year and like Europe 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:51.240 and stuff, and when I went over the hot Sauce part, 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:53.040 I was like, so, like, you know, you know how 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:55.360 you guys like have like a sports gambling account and 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:55.960 like nothing. 0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:58.360 I'd see like one young dude maybe. 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:00.440 Smile and I was like, all right, maybe you that's it, 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:02.800 but like there was no, it did not resonate there. 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:03.920 People are not into that. 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:07.200 Speaking of the crypto stuff. This is also part of 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:09.520 this you know, biggest stories of the year. Eric and 0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:14.920 James were named coin Desk's Crypto People of the Year, 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:19.120 James James Seffert from from Blooming Intelligence and it's just you. 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:22.840 Know a moment I think, so, yeah, they made you know, 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:25.280 those penguin NFTs. They made a penguin n FT of 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:27.360 my face that was kind of cool. 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:28.159 But did you buy it? 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:30.439 I mean they called us the etf Bros. And I 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:30.840 like that. 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:34.119 I've enjoyed my time there. It's an interesting crowd. Like 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:35.560 I said, I'm a true Bogel head, so I can't 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:38.639 go fully into it, but it's a little you know, 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:42.720 there's it's a controversial area still, it's not something that's 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:46.160 fully accepted everywhere. But for the most part, I think 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:48.480 what was interesting about this year. I was going to 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:53.280 bring up a bitcoin but is just the Larry Fink Fidelity. 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:57.080 You know, these are people who have a lot of 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:01.159 trust and credibility and for them to get behind this 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:05.440 with products on their name is it definitely has brought 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:10.360 it more mainstream and made it more acceptable and exciting 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:12.480 for me and James to be part of that. But 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:15.040 I'd say a year ago. It was still kind of 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:17.880 getting rid of that SBF stench. 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:23.400 I mentioned it because the bitcoin ETFs were huge, really 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.960 so huge. I bit the I shares one it had 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:28.760 it got over fifty billion. 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:29.679 Right, yeah, that's an info. 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:31.360 It's a crazy. 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:32.040 Less than a year. 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:34.840 Actually, yeah, let me drop a number on this. I'm 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:36.080 gonna blow your mind. 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:38.800 Fifty billion dollars in two hundred and twenty one days 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:42.320 on the market. The next fastest ETF to fifty billion 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:46.080 dollars was thirteen hundred and twenty nine days, so one 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:49.000 year versus four years, and that was I E MG. 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:52.240