1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,240 Speaker 1: Just a note before we start that this episode contains 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: depictions of police violence. Please take care while you listen. 3 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: In twenty seventeen, developers announced plans to build on an 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: eighty five acre wild space in the middle of Atlanta. 5 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: The plans included a massive, ninety million dollar police training 6 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: facility that Atlanta residents started to refer to as cop City. 7 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: The forests, which people refer to either as the Atlanta 8 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: Forest or Walloni Forest, was full of trees that helped 9 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: to clean Atlanta's air and water and provide green space 10 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: for the surrounding neighborhoods, which are predominantly black and brown communities. 11 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: Activists also argue that reducing the city's tree canopy makes 12 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: it hotter, and that construction of the Cop City training 13 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: center is polluting local waterways and the reduction of green 14 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: space there will hurt nearby property values. That's all before 15 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: we get into the concerns about building a massive police 16 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: training center in the middle of a majority black and 17 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 1: brown community. Since the plan was announced, Atlanta residents have 18 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 1: been pretty outspoken in their opposition to it, but despite 19 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:20,479 Speaker 1: overwhelming public disapproval of the plan, the city went ahead 20 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: with it. By this point, this season, this pattern is 21 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 1: probably starting to sound pretty familiar. Concerned citizens avail themselves 22 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 1: of all the legal options they have to oppose a 23 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:35,639 Speaker 1: polluting project. They attend meetings, they write to politicians, they vote, 24 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: they hold rallies and marches. When none of it works, 25 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: some people go home, and some people build camps. In Atlanta, 26 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: opponents of Copsody began to organize under the slogan Defend 27 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: the Atlanta Forest. Some of the activists involved started to 28 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: camp out in the woods. Others brought food to the 29 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: campers or supported in other ways. Some protesters escalated things 30 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: a bit, damaging construction equipment, breaking windows, and guming up 31 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: the ATMs of the banks financing the project. The response 32 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: by local and state police surprised everyone. Beginning in December 33 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, authorities began aggressively cracking down on copcity protests. 34 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: They ultimately charged forty forest defenders, protesters and organizers with 35 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: domestic terrorism. In September twenty twenty three, the Georgia Attorney 36 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: General charged sixty one cop City opponents with criminal racketeering. 37 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: It was so over the tops that almost every media 38 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: outlet covered it, and when they did, most were more 39 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: critical of the police than they were of the protesters. 40 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: Here's a bit from NPR reporter Odette Yusef story. 41 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 2: For example, Alex Papali traveled to Atlanta in March. He 42 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 2: says he just wanted to learn firsthand about the movement 43 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 2: that has come to be known as Stopcop City. He 44 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 2: never expected to end up in jail for three weeks 45 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 2: and ultimately charged in a massive racketeering case. 46 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 3: It's absurd. 47 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 2: Papli is one of more than twenty people arrested after 48 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 2: attending an outdoor protest concert. He says he doesn't know 49 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 2: most of the others who were detained that night, or 50 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 2: the dozens of others who've been indicted along with him. 51 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 4: You know, I can say with certainty that I'm not 52 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 4: involved in any conspiracy of this kind. 53 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 2: But in its indictment, the State of Georgia claims that 54 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: the defendants were all part of a well organized conspiracy. 55 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 5: As the indictment asserts, members of Defend the Atlanta Forest 56 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 5: subscribe to a philosophy of anarchy that. 57 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: Was Georgia Attorney General Christopher Carr. You heard at the 58 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: end there talking at a press conference about the Rico 59 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: charges and that language he uses describing Defend the Atlanta 60 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: Forest as quote unquote having a philosophy of anarchy that 61 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: didn't just come from nowhere. Our senior editor, Allen Brown, 62 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: has been reporting on the criminalization of activism in the 63 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: US for about a decade. When she started to see 64 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: some of this type of language and certain tactics show 65 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: up in the Cop City crackdown, she wondered if and 66 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: how federal agencies were playing a role. So she submitted 67 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: some public records requests and what she got in response 68 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: was pretty eye opening. For months leading up to the 69 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: arrests of Cop City protesters, the Department of Homeland Security 70 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: was regularly sending out reports warning Georgia and Atlanta authorities 71 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:48,679 Speaker 1: about Defend the Atlanta Forest and their anarchist and extremist tendencies. 72 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 1: Alleen has written a couple of stories for us on 73 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: this and on those documents, including one we co published 74 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 1: with The Guardian, so we'll link to that in the 75 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: show notes. But today I asked her to come on 76 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,359 Speaker 1: to walk us through the history that the Cop City 77 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: crackdown is kind of the culmination of, and to share 78 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 1: some of her interviews with the folks caught up in 79 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: all of it, I Memi Westervelt and this is DRILLED 80 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: the real free speech threat after the break. Alian Brown 81 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: brings us the story of Cop City. 82 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 6: I'm Ellen Brown. I'm a senior editor for Drilled and 83 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 6: I'm an investigative reporter. 84 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 1: So for you, as someone who has looked into the 85 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: crackdown protest for a long time, what did you first 86 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: think when you started to see the crackdown on Cop 87 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: City protesters and what did it connect to for you 88 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: in terms of stuff that you'd seen before. 89 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 6: Yeah, when I first saw that so many ponents of 90 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 6: Cop City we're being charged with domestic terrorism in Georgia, 91 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 6: I mean, for one, I was really surprised because we've 92 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 6: seen lots of cases where prosecutors are using various kinds 93 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 6: of terrorism frameworks to go after protesters, such as terrorism enhancements, 94 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 6: which are a federal phenomenon which makes sentences longer if 95 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 6: they're considered to be associated with terrorism. You know, we've 96 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 6: seen the spread of critical infrastructure laws, which enhance penalties 97 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 6: for people trespassing on the property of a site where 98 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 6: polluting infrastructure is being built, for example. And then you know, 99 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 6: we've seen lots of counter terrorism funding going toward monitoring 100 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 6: people involved in property destruction related to their objection to 101 00:06:55,040 --> 00:07:00,080 Speaker 6: environmental harms. I'm not aware of other cases where so 102 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 6: many people have been charged explicitly with domestic terrorism using 103 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 6: a state law like this, the way we have with Copcity. So, 104 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 6: you know, I think it is distinct in a lot 105 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 6: of ways, but it's also an extension of this longer history. 106 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 6: And so one thing that I thought of immediately was 107 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 6: what's known as the Green Scare. So in the early 108 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 6: two thousands, after nine to eleven, there was this flood 109 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 6: of counter terrorism funding, you know, authorized by Congress, all 110 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 6: kinds of new agencies, the Department of Homeland Security, all 111 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 6: kinds of groups formed that were all focused on countering terrorism. 112 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 6: The FBI's focus also really shifted to counter terrorism, and 113 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 6: that meant a lot of new focus on people who 114 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 6: were engaged in sabotage in the name of protecting the environment. 115 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 6: Throughout the nineties, radical group like the Earth Liberation Front 116 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 6: Animal Liberation Front had carried out acts of sabotage that 117 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 6: never harmed any people, but did damage property and caused 118 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 6: a lot of concern for animal product industries, for example. 119 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 6: And these industries kind of got together and were really 120 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 6: pushing for the FBI and the federal government to approach 121 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 6: these cases of sabotage as terrorism. So that kind of 122 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 6: came to fruition after nine to eleven, and the Green 123 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 6: Scare was one of the results of that. The FBI 124 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 6: eventually declared that eco terrorism was its number one domestic 125 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 6: terrorism throughout ecoterrorism as well as I believe animal enterprise terrorism, 126 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 6: which targets businesses that harm animals. So all of these 127 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 6: resources were going into confronting that. There were a few 128 00:08:55,679 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 6: high profile cases where a large swath of active this 129 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 6: were arrested at once. One of these big cases is 130 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 6: known as Operation Backfire, you know, and people faced really 131 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 6: draconian sentences for engaging in property damage. And again a 132 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 6: lot of the resources that led to these prosecutions were 133 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 6: framed as counter terrorism resources. So now flashing to today, 134 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,439 Speaker 6: I think one of the things that has brought us 135 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:34,839 Speaker 6: to this moment in Atlanta is backlash to the movement 136 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 6: to stop the Dakota Access Pipeline. It's also backlash against 137 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 6: protests in the wake of George Floyd's killing by police 138 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 6: in Minneapolis. 139 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,959 Speaker 3: I think we increasingly see both. 140 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 6: Industry and government airing toward framing property damage related to 141 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 6: political demands as terrorism. 142 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: You spoke with some of the Cop City protesters who 143 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: got kind of caught up in this big roundup. Can 144 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: you talk a little bit just about what kinds of 145 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: things they are being charged with. 146 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 6: Yeah, more than forty people have been charged with domestic 147 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 6: terrorism in Atlanta related to their opposition to Cop City. 148 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 6: A number of the people facing those charges are accused 149 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 6: of little more than misdemeanor trespassing, or that's what's in 150 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 6: their arrest affidavits. Anyway, we haven't seen formal indictments or 151 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 6: a lot of these terrorism charges. 152 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 3: There's no cases where. 153 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 6: People are accused of seriously injuring anyone. A lot of 154 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 6: this is kind of alleged property crime, so you know, 155 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 6: the domestic terrorism charges are not associated with mass murder, 156 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 6: for example, or severe injuries. A lot of it's related 157 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 6: to property street protests, people who were camping in the 158 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 6: forest to prevent construction of this project, and the arrest 159 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 6: s efidavits say very little about what they are alleged 160 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 6: to have done that amounts to terrorism, although a number 161 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,559 Speaker 6: of them say that the Department of Homeland Security classified 162 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:22,959 Speaker 6: the movement. Defend the Atlanta Forest as a domestic violent 163 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 6: extremist group. You know, DHS has denied that they made 164 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 6: that classification, although we've reviewed all kinds of documents that 165 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 6: suggest they were finding many ways to tell Georgia that 166 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 6: they were facing domestic violin extremists. So there's a lot 167 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,719 Speaker 6: of confusion about what DHS meant. In addition to these 168 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 6: domestic terrorism charges, sixty one people have been charged under 169 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 6: George's Racketeer, Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act or RICO. 170 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 3: This is a law that is. 171 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 6: Designed to go after organized crime, but here we have 172 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 6: sixty one activists facing these charges. 173 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 7: You ever been in the forest. Organization is not the 174 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 7: word of it for it. 175 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 1: Vienna Forest is one of those activists. She spent about 176 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 1: three months camping out in the woods in Atlanta trying 177 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: to stop the construction of copp City. At first, she 178 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: describes it as a really joyous time. 179 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 7: I think in a lot of ways, action camps often 180 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 7: have this like matting pinetic pole to them, mainly just 181 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 7: because it's you're every day, you're living out our ideals. 182 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 7: We're taking care of each other, We're practicing and community 183 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 7: building and building each other's capacity, taking care of each other, 184 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 7: having communal meals and just being in a space where 185 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 7: y'all and we share all the same values is just 186 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 7: really powerful. And not to mention just being outdoors, especially 187 00:12:55,200 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 7: in such a beautiful forest. There's a certain energy to 188 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 7: a Laani that like, if you've ever been in that forest, 189 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 7: you can just it's it's thick. You can almost feel 190 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 7: the history of that place and all the trauma, but 191 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 7: all the joy as well that is in that place. 192 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 7: In Ulaani Dong Forrest. 193 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: Spent most of her time working as a medic, keeping 194 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 1: everyone fed and hanging out with her partner Manuel Paestan, 195 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: who went by Tortuguita. 196 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 7: Torti Ghita had this way about them. There's this one 197 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:35,839 Speaker 7: song that is really underplayed by Matt Rivers. So grows 198 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 7: the flame a ballot of torti ghita, and there's one 199 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 7: line that just really sums it up in such a 200 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 7: beautiful way. 201 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 5: The forest is freedom to I would say, with a 202 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 5: heartful of fire in a face full of play. 203 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 7: A heartful of fire and a face full of play. 204 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 7: They were a true radical, true revolutionary in the sense 205 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 7: of they literally lived out all their beliefs and they 206 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 7: were so well read and had so much passion to them, 207 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 7: but they never let the world get them down. They 208 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 7: were always so joyous and loved sharing with their community 209 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 7: their joy, and I think that's what really sold me 210 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 7: on them. My first interaction with police on the park 211 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 7: side when I was there, it was in September, like 212 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 7: when I first got back, and they didn't enter the 213 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 7: forest though they were just escorting some utility workers. Wasn't 214 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 7: until my arrest to my knowledge that the police were 215 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 7: actually in the forest on the park side, So I 216 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 7: didn't have too many interactions with them until I got arrested. 217 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 7: Most of the interactions I had, they were just outside 218 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 7: of the forest and I just had to stay in 219 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 7: the tree line and I'd be fine. 220 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 6: When was the first time domestic terrorism or eco terrorism 221 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 6: applied to. 222 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 3: You know, this forest offense work. 223 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 7: The first time I heard of it was from someone else, actually, 224 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 7: it was another forest defender was talking about how they 225 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 7: heard them calling as terrorists. That just seemed like a 226 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 7: joke to us at that time. It wasn't. I never 227 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 7: really considered the possibility of getting charged and that in 228 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 7: the way I have until my arrest and I was 229 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 7: in holding and they hit me a piece of paper 230 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 7: that said a terroristic acts no bond and gave me 231 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 7: my first appearance date. At that point, I think I 232 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 7: still thought it was a joke, kind of hysterically trying 233 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 7: to like laugh at the darkness, but I didn't really 234 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 7: know what to expect. I didn't know what they were 235 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 7: accusing me of that at that time. I didn't know 236 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 7: what they thought I did until I heard the warrants 237 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 7: read out to me by a public defender. 238 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 5: Very mrslne so Bruise. 239 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 7: A Flame. 240 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 1: Forest was released with bond conditions that said she wouldn't 241 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: use social media to contact members of Defend the Atlanta Forest. 242 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: She couldn't go into the forest either. 243 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 7: Torta Gita stepped in to make sure I wasn't feeling 244 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 7: left behind because so many other people in the movement 245 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 7: and just didn't want to talk to me really and 246 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 7: for fear of the bond conditions, and so Torti Gito 247 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 7: had just like popped by the house at random times. 248 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 7: I remember and being out and doing errands and coming 249 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 7: back and just seeing tork Gita sitting at the kitchen counter. 250 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 7: Oh hi. The last time I saw tort Tiquita. They 251 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 7: took me and two friends to get Vietnamese and Mexican 252 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 7: food and just like getting really full and lots of 253 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 7: get food in US as we went to this drive 254 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 7: in movie theater and watched a really shitty horror movie. 255 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 7: Watched that the Starlight Drive In, which was Tortikita's first 256 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 7: time going to the Starlight which meant a lot to 257 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 7: me because when they had didn't mention is Tortikita never 258 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 7: really liked leaving the forest. They loved that place so 259 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 7: much and they didn't want to leave it, but they 260 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 7: left it for me and I will always thank them 261 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,959 Speaker 7: for that, because they knew I couldn't go there, so 262 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 7: they came to me. Yeah, that Starlight drive date was 263 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 7: the last time I saw them, and that was Monday, 264 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 7: and they were murdered on Wednesday. 265 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: When police raided the forest in January twenty twenty three, 266 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: they shot Tortugita, who was just twenty six years old, 267 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: and killed them. Police claimed that Tortuguita fired first, although 268 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: neither bodycam footage nor physical evidence from the autopsy ever 269 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: backed up that claim. The autopsy did confirm, however, that 270 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: tor Duguito was shot fifty seven times. It's impossible to 271 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: know exactly what constellation of factors drove police to such extremes, 272 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: but getting regular reports on how these people in the 273 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 1: forest were anarchists and violent domestic terrorists could certainly have 274 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,880 Speaker 1: set them on edge. Here's Allen again. 275 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,199 Speaker 6: So when I started to review the results of this 276 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,199 Speaker 6: public records request I did, there was kind of this 277 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 6: mystery in my mind, like DHS claims that they didn't 278 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 6: designate any group domestic violent extremists, and yet we have 279 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,399 Speaker 6: these Georgia officials claiming that they did. So what did 280 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 6: DHS actually say? 281 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 7: You know. 282 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 6: Two of the most interesting documents to me were these 283 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 6: open source intelligence reports from the Department of Homeland Securities 284 00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 6: Office of Intelligence and Analysis. These were sent in the 285 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 6: summer of twenty twenty two, so several months before we 286 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 6: started seeing these domestic terrorism charges, and we see Department 287 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,360 Speaker 6: of Homeland Security characterizing acts of. 288 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:15,439 Speaker 3: Basically property damage. 289 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 6: There was some tree spiking where copsity opponents put spikes 290 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:25,400 Speaker 6: into trees to make them difficult to cut down, and 291 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 6: I believe a construction vehicle was set on fire. Those 292 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 6: two actions were framed as consistent with anarchist violent extremism 293 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 6: and environmental violent extremism. Which are the categories that DHS 294 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 6: uses to describe what maybe would more commonly be considered 295 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 6: eco terrorism or domestic or terrorism. These reports were sent 296 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 6: to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation. That's the same agency 297 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 6: that was putting together these arrests affidavits that described Defend 298 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 6: the Atlanta Forest as a domestic violent extremist group. So, 299 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 6: you know, it looked like a clear line between these 300 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 6: reports and what Georgia law enforcement eventually used to justify 301 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 6: domestic terrorism charges. 302 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 3: I think we'd already seen some. 303 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:25,919 Speaker 6: Reports after those domestic terror arrests began where DHS was 304 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:30,399 Speaker 6: using that language to reference Copcity, but this was, you know, 305 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:35,719 Speaker 6: a DHS officer sending this information directly to Georgia and saying, 306 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 6: here's how you should think about these guys. One other 307 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 6: thing that was really on my mind as I was 308 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 6: going through this material was the police killing of Manuel 309 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:52,640 Speaker 6: Payez Tedan Tortuguita, who you know, was killed as they 310 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 6: were occupying the forest where the project is to be built. 311 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 6: They were in a tent when law enforcement came into 312 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 6: a the people occupying the forest, and law enforcement shot 313 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:09,199 Speaker 6: and killed them. They claimed that Tedan fired first, but 314 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 6: there was no one to witness what happened. We only 315 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,919 Speaker 6: have police accounts, So you know, there had been some 316 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:21,360 Speaker 6: reporting indicating that the Georgia Bureau of Investigation had briefed 317 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 6: officers that they would be facing domestic violent extremists or 318 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 6: domestic terrorists, and I was really curious to know how DHS, 319 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 6: how the federal government was fueling that kind of terrifying framework. 320 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 6: Another thing that was really interesting in this trove of 321 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 6: documents was that Atlanta police officers were kind of receiving 322 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 6: the steady stream of material sort of debating and talking 323 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 6: about what the environmental violent extremist threat looked like, what 324 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 6: eco terrorism looked like. One of the most interesting reports 325 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 6: there was actually a school paper that a Homeland security 326 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:13,160 Speaker 6: officer for the Atlanta Fire Department had written where his 327 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 6: research question was should defend the Atlanta Forest be designated 328 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 6: the next domestic terrorist group? His school program, as well 329 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 6: as a lot of the agencies that were generating these reports, 330 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 6: from academic institutions to federal agencies, were all ones that 331 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 6: were created in the wake of nine to eleven. So, 332 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 6: you know, we see when there's this big push to 333 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 6: look at everything as terrorism, suddenly everything looks like terrorism. 334 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 6: When that money is there, it sort of shifts the 335 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 6: way that folks from academia to federal government to local 336 00:22:54,680 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 6: law enforcement think about these things. The last thing I'll 337 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 6: mention is civil liberties organizations recently sent a letter to 338 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 6: congress members urging them to investigate this DJs agency that 339 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 6: was creating the open source intelligence reports. You know, the 340 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 6: civil liberties organizations flagged to additional reports. 341 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,400 Speaker 3: Including one that claimed that. 342 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 6: Animal rights slash, environmental violent extremists, and anarchist violent extremists 343 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 6: were inspiring criminal acts around the US. This intelligence report 344 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 6: even includes a map of all of the alleged extremism 345 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 6: inspired actions around the US. The Brendan sent Center for 346 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 6: Justice took a close look at these this list of 347 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,959 Speaker 6: cases and found that the ones that they could identify 348 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:56,360 Speaker 6: were vandalism. So, you know, we have one chart tracking 349 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 6: these incidents where the agency used the symbol of a 350 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 6: bomb do label sabotage that appears to involve activists damaging 351 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,439 Speaker 6: ATM card readers with super glue. So, you know, I 352 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:13,239 Speaker 6: think that symbol really kind of illustrates the discrepancy that 353 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 6: is raising a lot of concerns associating super glue on 354 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 6: ATM card readers with a bomb, you know, environmental sabotage 355 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 6: with terrorism, which a lot of people associate with nine 356 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 6: to eleven or mass shootings. 357 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 3: So these civil liberties organizations. 358 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 6: Have really pushed for DHS to rein in this kind 359 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 6: of communication because they say that it has led to 360 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 6: inappropriate law enforcement actions against political activists. 361 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: I think you mentioned in one of the conversations we 362 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,199 Speaker 1: had about like one of the people that was just 363 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 1: like walking in the forth. 364 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 8: Yes. 365 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 6: Just looking at one of these arrest affidavits, I'll just 366 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 6: read it because I think it kind of illustrates it's 367 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 6: just how little there is here. It says the accused 368 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 6: affirmed their cooperation with Defend the Atlanta Forest by criminally 369 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 6: trespassing on posted land. 370 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 3: Okay, criminal trespass. 371 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 6: Sure, during a standoff with another defendant who's occupying an 372 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 6: elevated treehouse, said accused then fled upon being in contact 373 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:27,439 Speaker 6: with law enforcement. The defendant was wearing camouflage clothing and 374 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,479 Speaker 6: carrying a backpack with a climbing harness and rope. So 375 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 6: you know, we have alleged criminal trespass. Apparently there's someone 376 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 6: there in a treehouse and the person's fleeing law enforcement. 377 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 6: Allegedly they're wearing camouflage clothing and carrying a backpack with rope. 378 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 6: This is what Georgia was using to arrest people as 379 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:58,679 Speaker 6: domestic terrorists. So I think about nine of the arrest 380 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 6: affidavits from December twenty two in January twenty twenty three 381 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 6: were alleged to have committed no specific illegal actions beyond 382 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 6: misdemeanor trespassing. So a lot of these churches are not 383 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 6: even linked to serious property damage according to these arrest affidavits. 384 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 1: In many cases, people swept up in the forest raids 385 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: seemed to legitimately think there had been some sort of mistake. 386 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: That's how little they were doing. One person Ellen spoke with, 387 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: who goes by Lucky, had never even participated in a 388 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: protest before in his life. 389 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 4: In the beginning, I wasn't sure what was happening, but 390 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 4: I was like, okay, honest, mistake, you guys. You guys 391 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 4: can just like let me go. 392 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 1: But they did not let Lucky go. Instead, they held 393 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: him in jail for three months and denied him bond 394 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: four times. This is how he talks about it now. 395 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 4: So I was involved in a dragnet arrest during a 396 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 4: stopcop City Week of Action in the Wheel Forest in 397 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 4: Atlanta last March. I was unconstitutionally arrested, denied bond four times, 398 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 4: and incarcerated a total of three months on what I 399 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:16,439 Speaker 4: consider and many consider bogus domestic terrorism allegations in that 400 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,679 Speaker 4: original warrant, and I was recently wrongfully indicted on RICO 401 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,880 Speaker 4: charges in Fulton County, Georgia. There isn't a warrant out 402 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 4: for my arrest for that, but that's coming out. 403 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: Lucky initially went to Atlanta to help with mutual aid 404 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: efforts in the forest, not so much to protest. 405 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,959 Speaker 4: I heard that people were sleeping in tents and they 406 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 4: felt like they needed to do that or I don't remember. 407 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 4: I wasn't going to sleep in a tent, but I 408 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 4: just wanted to go help, and I served on a 409 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 4: mutual aid basis, and unfortunately that ended up changing my life. 410 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 4: I did not know what I was walking into. I 411 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 4: didn't know that there was risk to be arrested. It 412 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 4: was mostly just a really nice like it was the 413 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 4: biggest garden party I've ever been to. 414 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: Lucky was surprised to see something that he'd experienced as 415 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,959 Speaker 1: being so beautiful and innocent criminalized. 416 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 4: Even somebody who might have shown up that day out 417 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 4: of curiosity, or someone like me who saw a week 418 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 4: of action as an opportunity to volunteer those people's curiosity 419 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 4: has been made illegal in practice. 420 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 3: I don't think anyone. 421 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 6: Anticipated that they would end up facing these really severe charges, 422 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 6: and some of them doing jail time on charges that 423 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 6: still haven't even been linked with a formal indictment. Lucky 424 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 6: really had not participated in a protest before. He was 425 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 6: sort of there to see what was going on, and 426 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 6: you know, in another case, a legal observer was charged 427 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 6: with domestic terrorism. Hannah Cass is a researcher who went 428 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 6: to see what was happening in Georgia with movement to 429 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 6: stop Coop City and ended up leaving with terrorizing charges. 430 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: To be clear, Hannah wasn't charged with domestic terrorism like 431 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: some of the others. Her charge was making terroristic threats. 432 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 6: She spent a little bit of time in jail and 433 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:36,959 Speaker 6: just ended up kind of experiencing a lot of unexpected. 434 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 3: Backlash related to that arrest. 435 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 6: At one point, Hannah's university called her in for a 436 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 6: disciplinary hearing because they'd received complaints related. 437 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 3: To these charges. 438 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 6: She also learned that this think tank that's part of 439 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,959 Speaker 6: the Atlas network, which we have discussed here in the past, 440 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 6: had filed a record it's request related to Hannah and 441 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 6: her work at the university because she's a student at 442 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 6: a public university. 443 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 3: These are just some examples of the. 444 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 6: Creeping impacts that a charge like this can have on 445 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 6: someone's life, even if the charges are ultimately dismissed. I mean, 446 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 6: she of course was among the sixty one people caught 447 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 6: up in this rico case, so you know, her life 448 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 6: continues to be sort of in this offended place, along 449 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 6: with all of the other people involved in that case. 450 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 8: If this case were to be successful, like everyone is 451 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 8: in danger. 452 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 7: This is. 453 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 8: Fascism, and I just hope, I guess my greatest hope 454 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 8: is that people understand what the stakes are. 455 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: You also spoke with attorney Lauren Reagan, who's defending several 456 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: of the Copsity defendants, and I know I spoke with 457 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: her as well about you know, just how novel this 458 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: type of RICO charge is. I've been defending activists for 459 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: over twenty five years now, and I know of only 460 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: one other criminal rico prosecution. 461 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 7: That was in the. 462 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 9: Early two thousands in Indiana, there were two activists that 463 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 9: were part of a campaign to fight a highway expansion 464 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 9: for the I sixty nine highway, and they were charged 465 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 9: with criminal rico among other things. But ultimately a plea 466 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 9: bargain was reached in those cases prior to trial, and 467 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 9: the rico charges were neither litigated nor were there any convictions. 468 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 9: So this is certainly the largest and broadest attempt at 469 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:59,239 Speaker 9: using criminal rico against movement participants. To my knowledge, I 470 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 9: don't know of any any activists, certainly environmental or climate activists, 471 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 9: that have ever been convicted of criminal reco. 472 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, I've spoken to Lauren Reagan a number 473 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 6: of times in the years of reporting that I've done 474 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 6: on criminalization of land and water defenders. She's someone who's 475 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 6: been doing this kind of work since the Green Scare. 476 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 6: So she also really underlined that the framework of eco 477 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 6: terrorism it's a political framework, something to use to sort 478 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 6: of slander political opponents as criminals, as dangerous. You know, 479 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 6: she and others really question whether eco terrorism is a 480 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,280 Speaker 6: useful term at all for anything. 481 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 10: Well, I mean, to me, eco terrorism is extractive industries 482 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 10: and corporations that are destroying the environment and the planet 483 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 10: and thus basically threatening all life on the planet. That 484 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 10: I believe is the true definition of an eco terrorist, 485 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 10: you know, someone that is causing widespread, devastating harm to 486 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 10: humans and non humans alike. 487 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 9: For private profit. 488 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 10: However, in this context, far right extremists and. 489 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 3: Their water carriers have. 490 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 10: Used that phrase for just an incredibly wide swath of 491 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 10: anything that they don't like. Really, any kind of activism, 492 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 10: whether it is very traditional civil disobedience or whether it 493 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 10: engages in economic sabotage where property is damaged but there 494 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 10: is no harm to human life, is all being dumped 495 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 10: into this label called eco terrorist, which is basically just 496 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 10: meant to attempt to discredit and align political opponents. When 497 00:33:55,080 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 10: they cannot win the argument based on fact, real reality, 498 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 10: and public opinion, they attempt to undercut that by using 499 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 10: the media and public forum to create a false, inflammatory narrative. 500 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,760 Speaker 6: According to DHS, for something to be quote unquote domestic terrorism, 501 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 6: which they usually call domestic violent extremism or environmental violent 502 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 6: extremism if it has to do with environmental stuff. For 503 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 6: something to be domestic terrorism, the DHS definition says that 504 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 6: it needs to be one dangerous to human life or 505 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 6: two potentially destructive of critical infrastructure or key resources. So 506 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 6: that is quite broad to begin with, and action also 507 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 6: has to be politically motivated or has to advance an 508 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:54,759 Speaker 6: ideological cause. But you know, where it comes to environmental issues, 509 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 6: that term critical infrastructure is part of what's so dangerous 510 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,760 Speaker 6: in the US pipeline, for example, an oil pipeline. Energy 511 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 6: infrastructure is often framed as critical infrastructure, and that becomes 512 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 6: a problem when there's a growing movement that seeks to 513 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 6: halt the construction of this same type of infrastructure that 514 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 6: is also pushing US faster and faster toward a cliff 515 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,280 Speaker 6: that leads to climate chaos, that leads to mass suffering 516 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 6: and death. So I think there's a lot of question 517 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 6: about what should be considered critical infrastructure. And you know, 518 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 6: like in some of these documents I've reviewed, we see 519 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:43,240 Speaker 6: all kinds of things being called critical infrastructure, like financial institutions, 520 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 6: energy infrastructure. It just seems to be a label that 521 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 6: can be applied to all kinds of things. And now 522 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 6: it appears that DHS is also looking for things that 523 00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 6: might be inspired by domestic violent extremism, So that just 524 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 6: broadens that already broad definition even further and leaves a 525 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 6: lot of people vulnerable to be to being framed as 526 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 6: in kahoots with domestic terrorists. 527 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 5: Yeah the round people, I'll sing you song about brave 528 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 5: Tortuguita Inui Laani don say. 529 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 6: Drilled is an original Critical Frequency production. This episode was 530 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 6: reported by me Ellen Brown. I'm also the senior editor 531 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:32,880 Speaker 6: for this series. 532 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Martin Zaltz Ostwick. 533 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 11: Sound design and scoring also by Martin Saltz Austwick who 534 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 11: composed much of the music in this episode. 535 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:44,880 Speaker 7: Mixing and mastering by Peter Duff. 536 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,240 Speaker 6: Thanks to Matt Rivers, who wrote the song so Grows 537 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 6: the Flame the ballad of Tortugita would. 538 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 5: Say with a heartful of fire in a faceful of play. 539 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 6: You can find more of his music at mattrivers dot 540 00:36:58,520 --> 00:36:59,760 Speaker 6: bandcamp dot com. 541 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,759 Speaker 11: A theme song is but in the Hand by four Known. 542 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:04,720 Speaker 7: Our artwork is by Matt Fleming. 543 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 6: Our first amendment attorney is James Wheaton. 544 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: This show was created by Amy Westervelt. 545 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 6: Check out my print stories on Copcity and access all 546 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 6: of the DHS documents mentioned in this episode on our 547 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:18,840 Speaker 6: website at Drilled dot media. 548 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,879 Speaker 1: You can also subscribe to our newsletter there. It comes 549 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:23,759 Speaker 1: out once a week and includes a little bit of 550 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 1: analysis on what's happening in climate, plus a roundup of 551 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 1: the top five stories or studies to check out each week. 552 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 1: It's never more than a ten minute read, and people 553 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,839 Speaker 1: tell us it helps them stay on top of all 554 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:36,880 Speaker 1: things climate. 555 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:39,800 Speaker 6: If you want to support our work, you can also 556 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 6: leave us a rating or review. It genuinely helps us 557 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 6: find new listeners. 558 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: And finally, if you would like to fund more climate 559 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 1: accountability reporting, you can sign up for a paid subscription 560 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: to either the newsletter or the podcast. 561 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 11: For access to add free early release episodes and bonus content. 562 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 1: Every dollar you can tribute goes toward more reporting and 563 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:02,880 Speaker 1: more stories. 564 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 6: Thank you for that support, Thanks for listening, and we'll 565 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 6: see you next week. 566 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,839 Speaker 5: Will they go? Thanks to Brave dorth to get the now, 567 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:16,720 Speaker 5: the whole damn world knows for every tree that's fell, 568 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 5: here's a coup that's gone the hell forevery mar slain 569 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:27,719 Speaker 5: so throws the flame