1 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: Diversion audio. A note this episode contains mature content and 2 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: descriptions of violence that may be disturbing for some listeners. 3 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: Please take care and listening. It was a hot Arizona 4 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: afternoon in two thousand and four. A man named Robert 5 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 1: Ames walked out of a gas station with a bud 6 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 1: light and cut across the desert to get back to 7 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: the construction site where he'd been sleeping. He noticed a 8 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: futon about fifty feet off the road, so he sat 9 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: down on it to finish his smoke. Then he noticed 10 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: a piece of carpet wrapped around a fifty five gallon 11 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: rubber made tub. He thought it might have something in 12 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 1: it he could pawn, so he stuck his cigarette in 13 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: the corner of his mouth and he used a piece 14 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: of broken beer bottle to cut the tape around the container. 15 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 1: When he popped, the lid of foul odor seeped out. 16 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: As he pulled away the black trash bags and plastic sheeting, 17 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: the smell got so strong he gagged as soon as 18 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: he realized what he was looking at. He dropped everything, 19 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 1: ran back to the gas station and called emergency services. 20 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: He told them, I found a dead body or at 21 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: least parts of a dead body. Robert was still shaken 22 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: by his find a few hours later when detective David 23 00:01:55,000 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: Barnes questioned him. I saw the belt buckle and the 24 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: jeans and the belly. It was Harry, Ames, said, his 25 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: voice trembling. That's how I realized it was human, because 26 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: there was a belly button. Robert was never a suspect 27 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: of this crime. Everything at the scene corroborated his story, 28 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: a piece of broken bottle, a half drunk bud light, 29 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 1: and the partly smoked cigarette that had fallen from his 30 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 1: mouth when he gasped in shruck. That meant the police 31 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: had no suspects, they had no name for their victim, 32 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: and they had no idea why anyone would or how 33 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: they even could commit such a brutal murder. Welcome to 34 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: the greatest true crime stories ever told. I'm Mary Kay McBrayer. 35 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: I'm a writer of true crime. I'm constantly reading about crime, 36 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: but I'm not necessarily interested in the headline grabbing elements 37 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: like the blood and the gore. Despite the hellscape I 38 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: just told you about, I'm more interested in the people 39 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: behind these stories and what we can learn about society 40 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: by looking at their experiences. That's what I explore here. 41 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: Every week I dig into crimes where women aren't just victims. 42 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: They might be the detective, the lawyer, the witness, the coroner, 43 00:03:55,360 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: the criminal, or a combination of those roles. As you 44 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: probably already know, women can do anything. Today's episode we're 45 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: calling like a hot knife through butter. It's about the 46 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: murder of good guy Jay Orban. It's also about his wife, 47 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 1: the Vegas showgirl and stripper known by her stage name 48 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: Marjorie Marquis More after the Break. Here's the problem with 49 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: being a good person. You expect other people to be 50 00:04:54,000 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: good too. Good people find it especially difficult to accept 51 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: that someone they care about is bad. It's wild how 52 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: a good person will equivocate on behalf of a bad one. 53 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: For example, how many times has one of your friends 54 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: made an excuse for their partner, like, Oh, they just 55 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: lied to me because they thought they'd lose me if 56 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: they told me the truth. Bitch, are you hearing yourself? 57 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: They should have been lost you anyway, to find point 58 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: another problem, it doesn't get easier to accept when they 59 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 1: tell you that they're bad, and it doesn't always get 60 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 1: easier to accept when they show you how bad they are, 61 00:05:53,200 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: either because you don't want it to be true. Moral 62 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: of this story is best summed up by the poet 63 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: Maya Angelou. She said, when people show you who they are, 64 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 1: believe them the first time. I'd like to add to that, 65 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: if someone shows you they're bad, get out of there. 66 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: And of course it's never easy to get out, and 67 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: you normally can't even see the situation for yourself. You 68 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 1: usually need a very brave friend or mom to frame 69 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: out their badness for you. But good friends don't want 70 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 1: to shit talk someone you love, so it could take 71 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: a long time for the truth to reveal itself. Meanwhile, 72 00:06:55,240 --> 00:07:00,119 Speaker 1: you're just hanging out with a bad person thinking this 73 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: is normal. I think the second moral of this story 74 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,799 Speaker 1: can be summed up succinctly by my Jeddo, my grandfather. 75 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: I think it might be loosely translated from an old 76 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: Arabic idiom. It goes like this, When you hang around shit, 77 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:33,239 Speaker 1: you get shitited on you. Jay Orban was a good 78 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: dude who liked beautiful women. More specifically, he liked to 79 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: rescue beautiful women. Jay didn't look rich, he wasn't flashy 80 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: or especially handsome. He looked like a nice guy. He 81 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: wasn't the one that the dancers at Bourbon Street Circus, 82 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: Babes Cabaret, and Skin Cabaret with generally flocked to. Not 83 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: at first. Only after he became a regular at these 84 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: Phoenix strip clubs would they recognize that he was wealthy 85 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: and he was generous. The bartenders, managers, and even a 86 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:25,239 Speaker 1: lot of the patrons knew Jay. He met a lot 87 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: of his friends at strip joints. He also met a 88 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: lot of his girlfriends there. Jay's friend Mario put it 89 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: this way, there were so many girlfriends I can't remember 90 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: all their names. Jay heard about the dancer's debts, divorces, 91 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: and abusive relationships, and he wanted to help them out. 92 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:56,839 Speaker 1: So he did. He helped his girlfriends out financially. He'd 93 00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: let them move in while they got on their feet, 94 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: and then they'd inevitably break up a few months later. 95 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: There were definitely some transactional relationships, and Jay seemed mostly 96 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 1: alright with that. He didn't seem to hold any hard 97 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: feelings towards anyone when his relationships went out. Something else 98 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: his friend Mario shared was this, Jay wasn't so much 99 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: as a good guy who went and picked up strippers 100 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:37,079 Speaker 1: to keep a scorecard. Everyone was just friends. The whole 101 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: arrangement felt normal to Jay, if we want to go 102 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: meta with this interpretation, whether or not he totally understood this. 103 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: Jay's relationships were as capitalist as his actual business. Jay 104 00:09:55,240 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: had a wholesale Native American jewelry business. He was based 105 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: in Phoenix, Arizona, but he dealt all across the country, 106 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: driving the truck himself, staying in Lakinta Inns when he 107 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: traveled overnight wearing jeans and boots. He was rich, but 108 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 1: he really only stunted in the strip club and at 109 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:25,439 Speaker 1: the Bourbon Street Circus. He met Marjorie Marquis, the quote 110 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: unquote love of his life. When they met in nineteen 111 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: eighty five. Marjorie was quite a smoke show. She always 112 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:49,959 Speaker 1: had been. In her Orlando High school, she did all 113 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 1: the artistic athletic things. She was a ballet dancer and 114 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,839 Speaker 1: then she was a lead majorrette. And while she was 115 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 1: a full time student and waiting tables, she also danced 116 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: at a dinner theater on the weekends. Despite her undeniable 117 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:16,319 Speaker 1: beauty and fitness, she didn't have many high school boyfriends. 118 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: She preferred to date older men also and bear with 119 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: me here for this transition. Marjorie had a routine gynecological 120 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: visit in her teenage years where she was given the 121 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: diagnosis of endometriosis. For listeners who are not familiar with endometriosis, 122 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: it sucks. Basically, the tissue that normally lines the uterus, 123 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: the tissue that women shed during menstruation, grows in other areas. 124 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: It causes painful menstruation, irregular bleeding, and in Marjorie's case, 125 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: lots of scarring. The doctor told her that she was infertile. 126 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: For people who want to give birth, that's a hard 127 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: truth to accept. Marjorie was one of them. She started 128 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: living as though she was the only person she'd ever 129 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 1: be responsible for. That meant if she liked someone, she 130 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 1: jumped into that relationship with both feet full weight. Author 131 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: Shanna Hogan, who wrote the excellent book Dancing with Death 132 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: on this case, aptly describe those relationships this way. They 133 00:12:48,800 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: were quote always brief and often chaotic. He was nineteen 134 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: when she married Mitchell Marquis. His big legacy in her 135 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: life was that she kept using his last name Marquis 136 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: because she liked how it sounded. It is pretty, but 137 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: they were only together for a year and a half. 138 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 1: There was quickly a second husband, and then, before the 139 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:31,319 Speaker 1: divorce was finalized, a new guy in the picture, Luke Forrest. 140 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: Luke was a part time singer who sounded like the 141 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: famous performer Lou Rawls and I'm going to slow down 142 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: here a bit. Because of this, Luke insisted on quote 143 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:51,959 Speaker 1: managing their finances. That meant that Marjorie had to hand 144 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: over her entire paycheck to him the moment she got it. Y'all, 145 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: they weren't even married yet, and he was doing this unacceptable. 146 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: I mean, it's always wise for women to have some 147 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: money of their own in case of emergency, or like 148 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: the getaway bag that moore a Rose stashed for her 149 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: children on Shit's Creek. Even when you are married, it's 150 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: always a good idea to have something that's all yours 151 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: in case of emergency. It doesn't have to be a secret, 152 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: but if your partner thinks they're entitled to everything, danger 153 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: About a year after Luke and Marjorie started dating, her 154 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: car got towed for nonpayment. Luke had been using her 155 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: paycheck to gamble and had apparently neglected the car payments. 156 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: She was pissed she left him, He apologized, She took 157 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: him back tail as old as time. They'd been together, 158 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: right around a year when Luke suggested Marjorie pick up 159 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: some new work to help support them. She'd been a 160 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: dancer and a choreographer since her days as a high 161 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: school ballerina. Why not do the grown up version. That's 162 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: when she started stripping. Marjorie would keep stripping from then on, 163 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: and to paraphrase the Godfather, it don't make any difference 164 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: to me what someone does for a living, but your 165 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: business is a little dangerous, or at least it could 166 00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: lead to dangerous things. For now, though there were other 167 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: more immediate dangers, Luke started pushing to bring another woman 168 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: into their relationship. It made Marjorie miserable, but she didn't 169 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: actually leave him. She didn't have the means to strike 170 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: out on her own. Then she learned that he'd gambled 171 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 1: away her eight thousand dollars in savings. Staying with him 172 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: was starting to look more financially risky than literally starting 173 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: from scratch without a dollar to her name, So Marjorie 174 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: packed up and left to which I say yes? On 175 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: her way back home to Florida. Though Marjorie's car broke 176 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: down in Phoenix. She had no money for the part 177 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: to fix it, and no one to ask for it. 178 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: While she was hoofing it to a nearby hotel, she 179 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: passed the Bourbon Street Circus strip club. Inspiration struck. She 180 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: got a job there, and she started pulling in five 181 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: hundred to six hundred dollars a night in the eighties. 182 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: That's where she met Jay Orbin for the first time. 183 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: He slapped one hundred dollars bill on the bar and 184 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: offered to buy her a drink. Marjorie smiled at the 185 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 1: chance to get off her high heels, and Jay was 186 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: immediately smitten. Marjorie was not smitten with his thinning hair, 187 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 1: belly boots, tight jeans, and belt buckle. Jay looked, she said, 188 00:17:54,240 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: like a used car salesman. But he was nice and charming, 189 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: and he always paid for her company. After a while, 190 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: she told him about her husband and the chaos she'd 191 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: been through. Shanna Hogan's book Dancing with Death notes that 192 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: Marjorie already knew about Jay from another dancer. He was, 193 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 1: as she puts it, known to find girls who were 194 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: in trouble or had a problem with an abusive guy, 195 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 1: and offered to help them out financially. They would usually 196 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 1: be his girlfriend for a few days. Before long, Marjorie 197 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 1: had moved into Jay's spare bedroom. She said he never 198 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 1: gave her cash and she never asked for it. Meanwhile, 199 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: she became pretty fond of him. They went on a 200 00:18:54,640 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: date dinner and dancing. Then they kissed and things related 201 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 1: to intimacy. That's when they faltered. When she told Jay 202 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: she was moving back to Florida, he asked her to stay. 203 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 1: I love you, He told her we can build a 204 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: life together. Marjorie couldn't set Although as sweet and secure 205 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: as Jay was, she wanted something more like the excitement 206 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: she felt with her more dangerous lovers. So she went 207 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: back to Luke for a while, but this time she 208 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: didn't stay long. Eventually, she did make her way back 209 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: to Florida and into the classy strip joints of local 210 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: owner Michael J. Peter, where she started doing more behind 211 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: the scenes work as well as dancing. She helped develop 212 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: the Platinum Doll Strip Show, a troop that saw some 213 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: real success. She even started making their costumes to cut costs, 214 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 1: and they did well. They booked venues across the country, 215 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 1: Marjorie was actually in Motley Cruez Girls Girls Girls music video, 216 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 1: but she didn't stick to this girl boss approach for 217 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: very long. While on tour, she met her next husband, Ronald. 218 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 1: Ronald owned his own excavating business in New Jersey, and 219 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:47,680 Speaker 1: he changed the name to Marco, as in Marjorie's company. 220 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: He even brought her to his attorney's office to sign 221 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: the company into her name. She thought it was very 222 00:20:55,040 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: sweet at the time because Ronald swept Marjorie off her feet, 223 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: He bought her gowns, fur jewelry, and he'd take her 224 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: in his Ferrari into Manhattan for Broadway shows. All of 225 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: this so far is very cool on the surface, but 226 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 1: the thing is in New Jersey, where Ronald's business was, 227 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: companies were required to fulfill a certain minority quota. With 228 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: Marjorie listed as the head of the company, Marco was 229 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 1: now a certified women's business, so it could overbid other 230 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:45,360 Speaker 1: contractors and still win jobs. So that's gross. I mean, 231 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,479 Speaker 1: it would be different if Marjorie was a real owner. 232 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 1: That'd be dope. But unfortunately there's even more to why 233 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: I think this identity you politics underhanded move is gross. 234 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty nine, the new bookkeeper, Gilda, asked Marjorie 235 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: some important questions. The main one was, did Ronald tell 236 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 1: you why he put the company in your name? He hadn't. 237 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: To sum it up, Ronald wasn't paying any taxes on 238 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,679 Speaker 1: the business. By the time he and Marjorie divorced in 239 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine, he owed tens of thousands of dollars 240 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: to internal revenue, or rather Marjorie did a few months later, 241 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:58,719 Speaker 1: Marjorie fled Ronald and his debt for Florida and Michael J. 242 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: Peters Clubs. This time she dated the wealthy strip club 243 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: owner Michael, but the relationship fell apart thanks to his 244 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: playboy ways. Marjorie once again moved on. She was traveling 245 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: from geg to gig Out West again when she got 246 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: a phone call. Remember me, asked the voice on the 247 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: other end, Jay, Jay, Orbin, I have been looking for 248 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: you for ten years. It was true. He had All 249 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,639 Speaker 1: along his route in and out of many strip joints 250 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:44,239 Speaker 1: he frequented, he always scanned the names for Marjorie Marquis. 251 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: He'd finally found her face on the billboard for Las 252 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:52,360 Speaker 1: Vegas Club Paradise Dancers, and when he looked her up 253 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: in the Vegas phone Book. There she was. Marjorie did 254 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 1: remember Jay, and by now the qualities of sweet and 255 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 1: secure were starting to sound a lot more appealing. She 256 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: met up with him at the Rio Bar, and when 257 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,479 Speaker 1: Jay returned to Phoenix, they talked on the phone for 258 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:21,920 Speaker 1: hours every night. Still, the way he finally really won 259 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: her over was just as transactional as the way he'd 260 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: won over his past girlfriends. Because he knew about her endometriosis, 261 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,199 Speaker 1: he told her he'd pursue fertility treatments with her to 262 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: have a child together. She counteroffered by saying they'd try 263 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 1: the treatments for two years and if that didn't work, 264 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: she would leave. And Jay said, Okay. The thing about 265 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: Jay is it just doesn't seem like he ever did 266 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: anything Dishonest. Business was kind of his language, but he 267 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 1: conducted his business Jayhawk Trader, in an understanding and generous way. 268 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 1: He was known for giving his customers extra time to 269 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: pay up, or sometimes waving their debts completely. Marjorie must 270 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: have sensed that he was an actually good guy, and 271 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 1: she'd always wanted a child. It was time to put 272 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: her thrilling, sometimes dangerous past behind her. She married Jay 273 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 1: at the Little White Wedding Chapel on Las Vegas Boulevard 274 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 1: just a few months later, on July twenty second, nineteen 275 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: ninety five. As a fun little aside, that place is 276 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: really cute. Famous couples like Frank Sinatra and Mia Farrow, 277 00:25:54,119 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez and Judy Garland and somebody 278 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: got married there too. Anyway, fertility treatments are no joke 279 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: even now. They are rough, physically painful, emotionally racking. You 280 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: have daily injections which cause wild mood swings and physical pain, 281 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: not to mention the results can be emotionally devastating, and 282 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: it's very expensive. In the nineteen nineties, when Marjorie started them, 283 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:37,160 Speaker 1: the situation was worse. Marjorie had the daily injections, which 284 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: caused her ovaries to swell, leaving her nauseated and hot flashing. 285 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: She also underwent seven different surgeries for egg retrieval. Twice 286 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,199 Speaker 1: she hyper stimulated and had to be rushed to the 287 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: er for doctors to drain the fluid from her abdomen. 288 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: Jay spent over sixty thousand dollars on the treatments. He 289 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: also attended to her every need. He was great, and 290 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: he was great when he had to be great, which, 291 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:16,120 Speaker 1: as we know from Lizzo, is very uncommon. Marjorie realized 292 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 1: what a huge git she had on her hands. After 293 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: several failures to conceive, Marjorie said, I'm sure we're going 294 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 1: to get pregnant, and if we don't, it doesn't matter. 295 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 1: I'll stay. But finally they did conceive, and on August 296 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: twenty sixth, nineteen ninety six, Marjorie gave birth to a 297 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 1: little boy. Both parents doated on their son, Noah. Life 298 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:53,719 Speaker 1: was good. Marjorie, after a long difficult road, had a 299 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:59,239 Speaker 1: financially stable, comfortable home and the miracle child she had 300 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,400 Speaker 1: been told was impossible when she was just a teenager. 301 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: She'd made it. That's when her bank account was seized 302 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: and Marjorie realized she was fifty thousand dollars in debt 303 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: to the irs. Yep, her former husband's debtors came back 304 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: to collect. Marjorie had already told Jay about the issues 305 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: with Ronald, but she'd also explained that in their divorce, 306 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: she'd signed the company back into his name. She thought 307 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: that meant she was out of the whole mess. When 308 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 1: they went to Jay's attorney, the next day, they learned 309 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: that was not the case, and even worse, because Jay 310 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: and Marjorie were married, Jay would also be held responsible 311 00:28:55,880 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: for the debt. Was at a loss. So Jay took 312 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: control of the situation. He got them a divorce and 313 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: took control of all their family assets. If you're thinking 314 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: what I was thinking, this looks like we're going right 315 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: back into the issues Marjorie had with Luke. Jay could 316 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: totally deprive her of everything and gain control over everything 317 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: she did, because money gives you choices, and now she 318 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: didn't have any. And I do wonder how Marjorie felt 319 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: about that, if maybe it triggered something in her, some 320 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: of that survival instinct that got her through the difficult 321 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: early years. But Jay loved his family, he loved Marjorie, 322 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: and this was a solution he saw to protecting his family. 323 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: If they weren't married, the irs couldn't hold him responsible 324 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: for Marjorie's debt, and if all their assets were in 325 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: his name, she simply wouldn't have anything to pay them with. 326 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: They'd have nothing to collect. Marjorie could no longer even 327 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: be a signer on Jay's credit cards. But Jay did 328 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: everything he could to give Marjorie a sense of security. 329 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: He set up a bank account for her and deposited 330 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: five hundred dollars a week like clockwork. He paid all 331 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: the bills directly, and if she needed more money at 332 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: any time, he'd give it, no questions asked. He also 333 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 1: went on to purchase two insurance policies that added up 334 00:30:54,680 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: to nearly a million dollars. Marjorie was the sole benefit fisiary, 335 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: and he wrote out his in case of plan. It 336 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: was a letter that gave Marjorie explicit instructions on what 337 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: to do if he died. Everything from the house, to 338 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: the car to his business was detailed. He even backed 339 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: this plan up by entrusting one of his business associates 340 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: to help her if she got confused, and arranged for 341 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 1: him to be paid for his efforts. That certainly sounds 342 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: like security. Jay was really a solid dude. Now Marjorie 343 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: would never have to worry about stability again, right, not 344 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: even if Jay was dead. Jay and Marjorie's son Noah, 345 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: was eight years old in September of two thousand and three. 346 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: Because anyone could tell he was carrying valuable car, he 347 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,640 Speaker 1: usually packed a thirty eight in his beat up Louis 348 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: Veton briefcase. He never revealed his full route either, just 349 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: in case someone might have a carjacking plan. When Jay 350 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: was on the road, he'd call his friends and family 351 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 1: to catch up, whether it was just checking in on 352 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 1: his buddies or discussing politics with his mom Joanne. He 353 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: talked to Marjorie and Noah two or three times a 354 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: day too. The only reason he didn't answer the phone 355 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: when he was on the road was bad cell service. 356 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: He was typically only gone for two weeks at a time, 357 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: but because he was headed all the way to Florida 358 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: this time, he'd be gone for nearly a month. At 359 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: least that was his plan. Then he turned on his 360 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 1: radio and he heard about a tropical storm rolling in. 361 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: Midway through the trip, he had to turn the truck around. 362 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: He called Marjorie and told her the situation. He was 363 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 1: coming home, he said, if you don't mind, She said, actually, 364 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: Noah and I are sick with strapped throat. That might 365 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 1: have been true, but what was definitely true is that 366 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: in recent years Marjorie started exhibiting some strange behaviors. For starters, 367 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 1: she worked out constantly. That is admirable, but four or 368 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: five hours in the gym every day seems a little excessive. Second, 369 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: she was obsessive over Noah. One of her friends said 370 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: Noah was like her little fashion accessory. I mean, that's 371 00:33:55,080 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: kind of cute up to a point. Matching outfits. Fine. Ever, 372 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: letting a child out of your sight, even with other 373 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 1: family members is too far. And then there were the affairs, 374 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: one of them with her close friend's boyfriend. When the 375 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: boyfriend wouldn't leave Marjorie's friend to be with Marjorie, Marjorie 376 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 1: got mean, violent and manipulative. She stalked the woman and 377 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:28,240 Speaker 1: harassed the boyfriend, ultimately pitting them against each other. Marjorie 378 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: also struck things up again long distance with Michael J. Peter, 379 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: the Miami nightclub owner. And then, or maybe at the 380 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: same time, knowing Marjorie, she started seeing Larry, a sixty 381 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 1: year old bodybuilder at her gym. In Larry's defense, he 382 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 1: had no idea that she was married. Marjorie straight up 383 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: lied to Larry about being married. She told him that 384 00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 1: Jay was her ex husband. Even though Jay's were at 385 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 1: the house they shared, Jay didn't live there. He was 386 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: always on the road, she said, and he just hadn't 387 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: made the time to buy a house and move out. 388 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 1: Larry bought it. In fact, it was Larry whom investigators 389 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:47,360 Speaker 1: suspected the most when Jay Orbin never returned home. After 390 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,799 Speaker 1: Jay Orbin heard about the storm blowing his way, he 391 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: turned his truck around. He was scheduled to arrive back 392 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 1: in Phoenix on the day he turned forty. He was 393 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: still on the road when he got a birthday call 394 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 1: from his brother Jake at about eight thirty am. He 395 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,280 Speaker 1: told his mother Joanne that he was just outside Tucson. 396 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: She said, you'll be home to celebrate with your son. 397 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 1: Jay said he wasn't sure that Marjorie and Noah had 398 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: strapped throat, but at least he was heading back towards them. 399 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: Those birthday calls were the last time Jay would talk 400 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:33,239 Speaker 1: to his family, but they weren't the last calls his 401 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: family received from his phone. These ones were odd. It 402 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 1: seemed like someone was on the line, but all the 403 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 1: Orbans heard was background noise. It sounded like Rush Limbaugh 404 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:56,280 Speaker 1: blasting on the car radio. Then there were the calls 405 00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 1: to eight year old Noah that Weekend's voice played on 406 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:09,400 Speaker 1: the line, but they weren't really conversations. Jay kept repeating himself. 407 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 1: He'd say, good, will you take care, I'll talk to 408 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 1: you later. Noah, clearly terrified, told his uncle it was 409 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 1: like a take being played or something. Marjorie, meanwhile, didn't 410 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 1: seem concerned. She told Jay's family that Jay did make 411 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 1: it home on his birthday, just to you turn out 412 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:44,240 Speaker 1: on another trip. They were needlessly worrying. Then she spent 413 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 1: the weekend on a home improvement project, epoxy coating the 414 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 1: garage floor. It wasn't until no one had heard from 415 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:58,720 Speaker 1: Jay for a whole week that Marjorie finally reported him missing. 416 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,319 Speaker 1: This is the point in our story when we get 417 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 1: a badass woman on the case Missing persons Detective Jan Butcher. 418 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 1: Detective Butcher immediately found Marjorie's behavior odd. There was a 419 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 1: story about Jay's arrival home and the U turn right 420 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 1: back out onto the road for his birthday. She couldn't 421 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 1: corroborate that with any of Jay's clients, because Jay did 422 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 1: often tell them he was going a different direction than 423 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:38,960 Speaker 1: he was actually heading. After all, he was carrying valuable cargo. 424 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,920 Speaker 1: But no one else had seen or heard anything indicating 425 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,400 Speaker 1: that Jay made it home that Friday, much less that 426 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:54,439 Speaker 1: he then hit the road afterwards. Then, only a few 427 00:38:54,520 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: days after she reported Jay's disappearance, Marjorie told Detective Butcher, 428 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:07,360 Speaker 1: I'm past being emotional about Jay. What kind of wife 429 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 1: would be over her husband's disappearance after just a few days, 430 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 1: So Detective Butcher started looking into everything Marjorie had claimed 431 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 1: since Jay's disappearance. First, there was that story about strep throat, 432 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,360 Speaker 1: which she and Noah had apparently had a week prior. 433 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:39,959 Speaker 1: But when Detective Butcher checked school attendance records, she saw 434 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:47,839 Speaker 1: that Noah was at school. She called Marjorie to confirm. 435 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:52,800 Speaker 1: Marjorie was immediately defensive and rude. Here's a snippet of 436 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:56,520 Speaker 1: the police recording of that conversation from the podcast This 437 00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:00,319 Speaker 1: Is Monsters. I kind of gets sing that you're really 438 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 1: not available and willing to help us out try to 439 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:04,560 Speaker 1: locate Get. 440 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:12,240 Speaker 2: That feeling, huh you mostly h that's the I'm surprised 441 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,319 Speaker 2: you say that I had called you earlier this afternoon, Right, 442 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 2: I'm not knowing that and I just got home. Oh white, 443 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:20,839 Speaker 2: you know what, I'm already feeling like I am having 444 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 2: to defend myself here. Okay, Well, I don't mean to 445 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 2: make you feel on expensive or anything. 446 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 1: Like that. When Detective Butcher tried to coordinate a meeting 447 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,960 Speaker 1: time with Marjorie, again, Larry was in the background where 448 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:38,319 Speaker 1: she called, and when Detective Butcher asked who Larry was, 449 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 1: Marjorie says something stunning. Aside from identifying Larry as quote 450 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,520 Speaker 1: a friend of mine that I met at the gym, 451 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:50,920 Speaker 1: she also said this. 452 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 2: Jay and I are not married. You're not married though, No, okay, 453 00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,360 Speaker 2: we have been divorced for a number of years, and 454 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:04,000 Speaker 2: you remained together livington other for reasons that were between us. 455 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:06,759 Speaker 2: And if you think that that's something sneaky and you 456 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:08,360 Speaker 2: need to need to think you need I need to 457 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:12,160 Speaker 2: know about something from five six years ago. Perhaps we'll 458 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:13,880 Speaker 2: get into that if you feel at some point you 459 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,520 Speaker 2: need to know. So you worked divorced five or six 460 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,360 Speaker 2: years ago, and we went in between us have an 461 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,640 Speaker 2: agreement to continue living together as husband and wife. I 462 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,359 Speaker 2: have his will and I have him. 463 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,560 Speaker 1: Marjorie was making whited to do about her and Jay's 464 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 1: divorce when the divorce had always been an act of 465 00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:38,440 Speaker 1: love on Jay's part, not separation. She might not have 466 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:43,239 Speaker 1: been his wife on paper, but Jay had certainly never 467 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:52,400 Speaker 1: planned to date other women. Meanwhile, an apparent unconnected case 468 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:56,759 Speaker 1: was unfolding. Robert Ames, the guy I told you about 469 00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,440 Speaker 1: at the beginning of this episode, found that plastic tub 470 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,960 Speaker 1: while he was taking a smoke break out in the desert. 471 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,920 Speaker 1: I didn't go into grizzly detail before because that's not 472 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,799 Speaker 1: really what we're about here, but there are a few 473 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,000 Speaker 1: facts that are important to tell you. Bear with me 474 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:20,120 Speaker 1: through this. It gets pretty gross. So the tub was 475 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:24,760 Speaker 1: not that big. Although the tub was full of fluid, 476 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:31,360 Speaker 1: only the man's torso was present. He had been sawed 477 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:38,360 Speaker 1: through at the chest and above the knees. That meant 478 00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:47,160 Speaker 1: the head, hands, and feet were all missing. There wasn't 479 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 1: enough of the body to be able to identify the 480 00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:59,239 Speaker 1: victim except the torso still had the upper part of 481 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:03,880 Speaker 1: the legs above the knees, and it was wearing a 482 00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:08,800 Speaker 1: pair of jeans, and there was a set of keys 483 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:14,000 Speaker 1: in the jeans pocket. After the autopsy in which those 484 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:18,080 Speaker 1: keys were discovered, Detective David Barnes, that's the man who 485 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,840 Speaker 1: questioned Robert Ames at the scene, he took the evidence 486 00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:26,600 Speaker 1: to the station, not the remains, but things like the clothes, 487 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:34,040 Speaker 1: the plastic sheeting, and those keys. It smelled so bad 488 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 1: that in the room next door, police officers were throwing 489 00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:45,479 Speaker 1: up police The tough guys were vomiting, so Barnes took 490 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:51,040 Speaker 1: everything to the basement of the homicide impound lot. While 491 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:57,120 Speaker 1: he was hanging up the wet plastic sheeting, Barnes chatted 492 00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:02,000 Speaker 1: with another detective. When Barnes mentioned the car keys, it 493 00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,360 Speaker 1: reminded the other detective of a Bronco that had recently 494 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:10,200 Speaker 1: come into police possession. It belonged to a missing person, 495 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:15,399 Speaker 1: jay Orban. Y'all are not going to believe this shit, 496 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,799 Speaker 1: but it's true. Mark Twain said it right. The thing 497 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,880 Speaker 1: about fiction is that it has to be believable. The 498 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:29,279 Speaker 1: truth doesn't. So what happened next is truly unbelievable. On 499 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,520 Speaker 1: a hunt they had to think was too good to 500 00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:36,360 Speaker 1: pan out, Barnes wipes the blood off the keys in evidence. 501 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:41,239 Speaker 1: He walked a few yards to the bronco. The key 502 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:48,920 Speaker 1: unlocked the car door, and then miraculously, the car cranked. 503 00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:57,160 Speaker 1: The other detective literally yelled unbelievable. That is when Jay 504 00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:02,400 Speaker 1: Orban was connected to the plastic tub. Jay's missing person 505 00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:14,040 Speaker 1: case had just become a homicide detective. Butcher wanted to 506 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,120 Speaker 1: be the one to solve the case, but because it 507 00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,880 Speaker 1: now had to be investigated as a murder, she relinquished 508 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:24,600 Speaker 1: her files to Detective Barnes. He invited her to stay on, 509 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,880 Speaker 1: but she knew that two lead detectives on this case 510 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,359 Speaker 1: was a bad idea. Still, she agreed to help out 511 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:36,600 Speaker 1: with the research, and she's the one who found a 512 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:41,239 Speaker 1: big clue. While she was going through Jay's credit card statements, 513 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,839 Speaker 1: she saw a charge for almost five hundred dollars at 514 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:49,720 Speaker 1: the Orban's local Target the day after Jay went missing. 515 00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:58,640 Speaker 1: The purchase included cleaning products mops, buckets, rags, scrub brushes, 516 00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:04,120 Speaker 1: and more. When Butcher showed the itemized receipt to Barnes, 517 00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,920 Speaker 1: he said, it sounds like the kind of stuff you 518 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:12,600 Speaker 1: need to clean up a murder scene. Butcher did the 519 00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:17,359 Speaker 1: due diligence. She called the credit card company and made 520 00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:21,680 Speaker 1: sure there was only one card on the account. There was, 521 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:27,720 Speaker 1: so Butcher went to Target. She had the manager gather 522 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:31,480 Speaker 1: all the merchandise that had been purchased. It was an 523 00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:40,000 Speaker 1: astonishing quantity. Evidence technicians photographed it. Then Butcher had the 524 00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,880 Speaker 1: target staff pull up the security footage. She needed to 525 00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:48,640 Speaker 1: know who had made this purchase, and there it was 526 00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,960 Speaker 1: all on tape, buying the supplies to clean up a 527 00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,520 Speaker 1: murder scene with the credit card of the murdered man. 528 00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:11,960 Speaker 1: That's Marjorie, but yelled, we got her as soon and 529 00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:16,840 Speaker 1: as delicately as possible. Detective Barnes broke the news to 530 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:22,920 Speaker 1: Jay's parents their son's body had been found. Jake Senior 531 00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:29,800 Speaker 1: and jo Anne understandably wanted to bury his remains. Detective 532 00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,879 Speaker 1: Barnes had to tell them they couldn't be released yet 533 00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:43,640 Speaker 1: because he said he was decapitated. Jay's parents were aghast 534 00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:52,120 Speaker 1: who would do that? Who could do that? The autopsy 535 00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:57,440 Speaker 1: had determined that the body had been frozen before it 536 00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:03,520 Speaker 1: was dismembered, and the method wasn't some kind of frenzied 537 00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:09,239 Speaker 1: axe chop. Someone had done this in cold blood with 538 00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:16,680 Speaker 1: an electric saw and chilling precision. The police, at this point, 539 00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:21,520 Speaker 1: with the target security footage in hand, were sure that 540 00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:27,480 Speaker 1: Marjorie was involved, but violent deaths like this one were 541 00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:33,719 Speaker 1: typically committed by men. They suspected Marjorie's boyfriend Larry had 542 00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:39,200 Speaker 1: done that actual deed, They filed warrants to search both 543 00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:43,239 Speaker 1: Marjorie and Larry's homes as well as the warehouse for 544 00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:50,000 Speaker 1: Jay's company, Jayhawk International. All they found at Larry's home 545 00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:54,600 Speaker 1: was evidence confirming his relationship with Marjorie in the form 546 00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:59,360 Speaker 1: of love notes, which neither denied. But Larry's home was 547 00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:05,200 Speaker 1: clean as far as evidence of murder. He later confirmed 548 00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,880 Speaker 1: through his attorney that he had never even met Jay Orbin. 549 00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,800 Speaker 1: Marjorie had told him that Jay was her ex husband, 550 00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:18,520 Speaker 1: and Jay didn't even live at their home anymore. Even 551 00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:22,800 Speaker 1: though the jealous boyfriend fit the police's knee jerk suspect profile, 552 00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:28,799 Speaker 1: Larry was almost off the hook. It was hard to 553 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:32,080 Speaker 1: be a jealous boyfriend when you didn't know you had 554 00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:40,000 Speaker 1: any competition, and as you know, women can do anything. 555 00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,840 Speaker 1: At the urban house, there was no trace of blood 556 00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:53,520 Speaker 1: in the garage, which is where the police expected it. 557 00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:59,840 Speaker 1: In fact, the garage was cleaner than most people's kitchens. 558 00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:05,560 Speaker 1: The walls and ceiling had been freshly painted, and the 559 00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:12,840 Speaker 1: floor had a fresh epoxy coat. When they searched the 560 00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:19,479 Speaker 1: Jayhawk warehouse, detectives found several incriminating pieces of evidence. One 561 00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:23,440 Speaker 1: was an open pack of jigsaw blades, and two of 562 00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:28,360 Speaker 1: the sixteen blades were missing. They also gathered duct tape, 563 00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:32,360 Speaker 1: plastic and garbage bags to test against the evidence of 564 00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:37,560 Speaker 1: the scene. Meanwhile, they analyzed Jay's phone logs and called 565 00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:41,480 Speaker 1: the service provider. They learned that a new phone had 566 00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:44,800 Speaker 1: been purchased after Jay's death and Jay's number was given 567 00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:48,400 Speaker 1: to it. They tracked the cell tower data for the 568 00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:50,520 Speaker 1: phone calls that had come from Jay's number to his 569 00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:53,800 Speaker 1: friends and family, the weird ones with Rush Limbaugh in 570 00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:58,600 Speaker 1: the background, the ones that had terrified Little Noah. All 571 00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:02,200 Speaker 1: the cell towers that had pinged were around the Orban 572 00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:07,200 Speaker 1: home and Larry's house. They might have to try Marjorie 573 00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:13,120 Speaker 1: on circumstantial evidence alone, but that circumstantial evidence was definitely 574 00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:18,120 Speaker 1: stacking up. When investigators called Marjorie's friends to attest to 575 00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:23,000 Speaker 1: her character, the reviews were mixed. They all said she 576 00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:28,000 Speaker 1: had nothing really good to say about Jay. In her 577 00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:32,240 Speaker 1: book Dancing with Death, Shannahgan quotes Marjorie as saying things 578 00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:36,080 Speaker 1: like quote, Jay is so lucky that nothing has ever 579 00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:41,239 Speaker 1: happened to him, like an accident, a robbery. Someone has 580 00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:47,600 Speaker 1: to cut that fucker's brake sooner or later. When detectives 581 00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:51,239 Speaker 1: asked Larry how that made him feel, he answered that 582 00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:56,120 Speaker 1: it made him very uncomfortable. I would hope so At 583 00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:59,920 Speaker 1: this point, Larry and Marjorie didn't know that the police 584 00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:04,960 Speaker 1: discovered Jay's body, but to his credit, Larry cut things 585 00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:08,720 Speaker 1: off with Marjorie immediately when he found out about the murder. 586 00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:11,759 Speaker 1: Larry is a real one. He was down to help 587 00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:14,359 Speaker 1: when he thought his girlfriend needed to help, but when 588 00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:18,239 Speaker 1: he saw the truth, he got out fast. He lawyered up, 589 00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:22,279 Speaker 1: cooperated with the police, and extricated himself as well as 590 00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:43,840 Speaker 1: he could. Meanwhile, police came after Marjorie with the charge 591 00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:49,279 Speaker 1: they could get together fastest attempted fraud thanks to her 592 00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:53,359 Speaker 1: financial arrangement with Jay. She didn't have authority to use 593 00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:59,880 Speaker 1: Jay's cards, but she had been using them while she 594 00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:04,120 Speaker 1: in custody. Detective Barnes broke the news that Jay's body 595 00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:09,040 Speaker 1: had been discovered. He told her that only part of 596 00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:15,920 Speaker 1: his remains were found. His head was missing. She didn't 597 00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:20,600 Speaker 1: show any real emotion until he notified her that because 598 00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:25,839 Speaker 1: of the fraud, all of Jay's accounts were frozen. That 599 00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:31,520 Speaker 1: is when she went hysterical. Police released Marjorie that night. 600 00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:36,800 Speaker 1: They weren't really concerned about fraud. They wanted her from murder, 601 00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:43,279 Speaker 1: but they kept scouring the financial records. They noticed a 602 00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:46,680 Speaker 1: purchase at a Lowe's hardware store and drove up to 603 00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:52,799 Speaker 1: get an itemized receipt. They confirmed Marjorie's presence with surveillance footage, 604 00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:58,160 Speaker 1: and there they saw her buying a rubber made plastic tub. 605 00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:04,240 Speaker 1: They matched the upc at the store to the one 606 00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:10,080 Speaker 1: on the tub j was found in. They also found 607 00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:17,400 Speaker 1: two jigsaws in the urban garage. Now the evidence was 608 00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:21,440 Speaker 1: really stacking up. In addition to buying the tub, it 609 00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:25,200 Speaker 1: turned out the duct tape detectives found in Marjorie's house 610 00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:28,760 Speaker 1: was the same as the tape found with the body parts, 611 00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:33,400 Speaker 1: and detective Barnes had tested the jigsaw blades missing from 612 00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:38,080 Speaker 1: the warehouse package. He said, the blades that were missing 613 00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:42,239 Speaker 1: from that jigsaw package were the only two blades in 614 00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:46,440 Speaker 1: that whole package that could cut through bone. It was 615 00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:51,240 Speaker 1: like a hot knife through butter. To be fully sure, 616 00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:55,240 Speaker 1: the medical examiner compared the bone pattern on the test 617 00:54:55,760 --> 00:55:02,160 Speaker 1: to that found on j Orban's bone under the microscope. 618 00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:10,200 Speaker 1: The cut pattern was exactly the same. Detectives called Jay's 619 00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:15,279 Speaker 1: family to inform them they would be arresting Marjorie. The 620 00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,520 Speaker 1: family was at the station when they brought her in, 621 00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:29,680 Speaker 1: mostly to take custody of eight year old Noah. In 622 00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:33,319 Speaker 1: the first few weeks of taking care of Noah, the 623 00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:40,320 Speaker 1: Orbans realized something strange. Noah's hair was growing in brown. 624 00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:47,520 Speaker 1: They realized that Noah had never been blonde. Marjorie had 625 00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:53,480 Speaker 1: been bleaching his hair his whole life. There's nothing illegal there, 626 00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:57,120 Speaker 1: but isn't that a strange thing to do with a 627 00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:02,440 Speaker 1: little kid? The decision of someone who's thinking is off. 628 00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:06,920 Speaker 1: The Orbans had plenty of time to stew on that 629 00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:13,360 Speaker 1: over the three years they waited for Marjorie's trial. In 630 00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:17,279 Speaker 1: the interim, nothing of Jay's business could be sold or 631 00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:22,520 Speaker 1: collected on, not even on Noah's behalf, not until they 632 00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:28,080 Speaker 1: had a conviction. His merchandise sat on the warehouse shelves. 633 00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:34,160 Speaker 1: When forensic testing was complete on Jay's vehicles, though his 634 00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:37,120 Speaker 1: brother Jake was able to pick up his white cargo truck, 635 00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:42,840 Speaker 1: the one Jay took on trips. Then the front tire 636 00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:49,720 Speaker 1: started squealing. Jake stopped. When he looked at the vehicle, 637 00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:55,200 Speaker 1: the front tire was facing sideways. He called the police, 638 00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:59,319 Speaker 1: and when detectives re examined the truck, they saw his 639 00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:04,120 Speaker 1: brakes had been cut. If the person who cut them 640 00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:07,640 Speaker 1: had done a better job of cutting them. It would 641 00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:14,239 Speaker 1: have likely caused an awful crash. Meanwhile, the cellmate of 642 00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:19,800 Speaker 1: Marjorie's came forward. Marjorie had made a jailhouse confession. She 643 00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,920 Speaker 1: told me that she did it. Sophia Johnson said bluntly, 644 00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:31,360 Speaker 1: she murdered him. She told Sophia that Jay had been shot, frozen, decapitated, dismembered. 645 00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:37,200 Speaker 1: She said, not a single person knows where the rest 646 00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:42,600 Speaker 1: of his body is. They put Sophia on the witness stand. 647 00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:48,880 Speaker 1: After nearly a year of trials, Marjorie was convicted. She 648 00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:54,800 Speaker 1: stood to receive a lethal injection. The Orbans, however, said 649 00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:58,400 Speaker 1: they'd rather she spent her whole life in prison. That 650 00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:03,640 Speaker 1: would be a worse punishment. Back when I hosted a 651 00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:07,720 Speaker 1: podcast with other women of color about horror movies, we 652 00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:12,520 Speaker 1: have this system of gauging a film scariness. Basically, if 653 00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:16,120 Speaker 1: I could never be in that situation, the movie's not 654 00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:20,480 Speaker 1: scary to me. For example, if the premise was that 655 00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:22,520 Speaker 1: a bunch of men went on a four day trip 656 00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:25,520 Speaker 1: hiking off the map and got abducted into a Nordic 657 00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:29,440 Speaker 1: cult ritual, I mean I'd watch it, but that scenario 658 00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:31,960 Speaker 1: doesn't really apply to me because I just don't go 659 00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:35,720 Speaker 1: off the grid, so it wasn't scary to me personally. 660 00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:40,520 Speaker 1: I think we tend to do the same for true crime. 661 00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,240 Speaker 1: Some people do the thing of, well, she shouldn't have 662 00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:48,560 Speaker 1: been walking alone at night, slash wearing that outfit, Slash 663 00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:51,200 Speaker 1: gone to a second location with a stranger, so it's 664 00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:54,680 Speaker 1: her fault. But I'm not talking to victim blamers here. 665 00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:58,919 Speaker 1: That's not what this podcast is about. What I mean 666 00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:03,280 Speaker 1: is well, one reason why I follow true crime is 667 00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:05,760 Speaker 1: because I need to know all that shit so I 668 00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:12,120 Speaker 1: can avoid it. This story, I don't really know what 669 00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:16,240 Speaker 1: Jay could have done differently to me. That makes it 670 00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:20,320 Speaker 1: a real nightmare. It's the kind of case that's really 671 00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:22,880 Speaker 1: hard to write off as that could never happen to me, 672 00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:27,680 Speaker 1: because we can't even really pinpoint a motive. I mean, 673 00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:31,640 Speaker 1: for the insurance money, yes, but she already had access 674 00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:37,640 Speaker 1: to so much money. Marjorie started developing some odd behaviors 675 00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:41,640 Speaker 1: after she'd settled down with Jay and her son, sort 676 00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:45,000 Speaker 1: of like she couldn't take the comfort of that quiet 677 00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:50,600 Speaker 1: life after so many years of less stable living. But honestly, 678 00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:54,520 Speaker 1: I wouldn't have looked at any of it and thought 679 00:59:55,200 --> 01:00:00,880 Speaker 1: that woman is capable of a heinous violent crime. So 680 01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:04,040 Speaker 1: there's no moral here. I mean, there's never a moral 681 01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:07,720 Speaker 1: in a true crime story. There are things you can learn, sure, 682 01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:15,200 Speaker 1: but never ever a tidy takeaway this story, though, this 683 01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:20,120 Speaker 1: one illustrates just how ubiquitous evil is, and that even 684 01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:23,400 Speaker 1: if you try, even if you are a good guy 685 01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:26,520 Speaker 1: who looks out for others and keeps all your wits 686 01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:44,479 Speaker 1: about you, man, it's still out there. Join me next 687 01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:47,720 Speaker 1: week on the greatest true crime Stories ever told. For 688 01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:51,280 Speaker 1: a very special case, I'm heading back to the eighteen 689 01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:54,760 Speaker 1: nineties to introduce you to Jane Toppin, the subject of 690 01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:59,120 Speaker 1: my book, America's First Female serial Killer, Jane Toppin and 691 01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:03,120 Speaker 1: the Making of them On. I'd also like to shout 692 01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:05,480 Speaker 1: out some key sources that made it possible for me 693 01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:10,600 Speaker 1: to tell this story. First off, Shanna Hogan's book Dancing 694 01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:14,280 Speaker 1: with Death, the true story of a glamorous showgirl, her 695 01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:19,320 Speaker 1: wealthy husband, and a horrifying murder. Shanna died in an 696 01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:23,080 Speaker 1: accident in twenty twenty. If it was possible to interview 697 01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:26,040 Speaker 1: her about this case, I would have loved to do that. 698 01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:31,120 Speaker 1: Hopefully this episode does her work justice even in her absence. 699 01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:35,320 Speaker 1: I also have to credit the podcast This Is Monsters, 700 01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:40,960 Speaker 1: which included the interview tapes between Marjorie and detectives. For 701 01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:43,800 Speaker 1: more information about this case and others we cover on 702 01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:48,720 Speaker 1: the show, visit diversion Audio dot com. Sign up for 703 01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:52,080 Speaker 1: Diversion's newsletter and be among the first to hear about 704 01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:55,240 Speaker 1: special behind the scenes features with hosts and actors from 705 01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:59,480 Speaker 1: diversions podcasts, more shows you'll love from Diversion in our partners, 706 01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:04,640 Speaker 1: and other exclusive tidbits you can't get anywhere else. That's 707 01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:08,760 Speaker 1: Diversionaudio dot com to sign up for the newsletter. The 708 01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:12,240 Speaker 1: Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told is a production of 709 01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:17,200 Speaker 1: Diversion Audio. I'm Mary Kay mcbraer. I wrote this episode 710 01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:21,440 Speaker 1: and our editorial director is Nora Battel. Our show is 711 01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:25,720 Speaker 1: produced and directed by Mark Francis. Our development team is 712 01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:30,880 Speaker 1: Emma Dumouth and Jacob Bronstein. Theme music by Tyler Cash. 713 01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:36,160 Speaker 1: Executive producers Jacob Bronstein, Mark Francis, and Scott Waxman. 714 01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:46,040 Speaker 2: Diversion Audio