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Speaker 1: Native Lampod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with

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Speaker 1: Recent Choice Media Native Land.

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Speaker 2: So grateful for y'all, especially happy to see Tiffany cross

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Speaker 2: Land in a good place. They used to follow her

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Speaker 2: on MSNBC as well as Joy Reid. I no longer

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Speaker 2: watch MSNBC since they ditched so many journalists of color

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Speaker 2: Katie Fang, Mini Assan. But that's not my question. My

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Speaker 2: question concerns the No Kings protests past and present. I

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Speaker 2: am part of the ninety two percent. My mother was

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Speaker 2: an activist in this civil rights era, so resistance is

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Speaker 2: in my DNA, and I wonder as far as the

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Speaker 2: No Kings protests, should we be involved, should we be

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Speaker 2: doing more as a community? Should we be doing more?

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Speaker 2: And what that more might look like? And I'm wondering

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Speaker 2: what your thoughts are on this.

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Speaker 3: Thanks welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome.

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Speaker 1: Welcome, welcome, welcome home, y'all. This is Native Lampid. It

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Speaker 1: is a mini pod for us, and today we are

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Speaker 1: going to talk a little bit about no Kings and

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Speaker 1: protests or not to protest? What do you feel called

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Speaker 1: to do? Bakari has to go to court. He got

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Speaker 1: another day job, so We're gonna let him go ahead

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Speaker 1: and jump in first.

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Speaker 4: Yes, thank you guys, and shout out to everybody who

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Speaker 4: shows up for jury duty. Jesus make sure y'all show

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Speaker 4: up juriy duty. When y'all get the notices, get that

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Speaker 4: thirty dollars a day until your boss. You gotta go

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Speaker 4: do God's work in the jury. So look, I don't

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Speaker 4: really know what the no Kings protest is all about.

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Speaker 4: And I have a problem with these protest marches because

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Speaker 4: I figured, if you don't have a goal, you just

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Speaker 4: getting your steps in. That's what I call these marches,

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Speaker 4: just out there getting your steps in. What do we

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Speaker 4: do afterwards? I need to call to action for afterwards.

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Speaker 4: I need people to be organized. I remember my dad

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Speaker 4: was somebody who actually fixed cheese sandwiches. That was his

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Speaker 4: job at Snick. He fixed cheese sandwiches for the march

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Speaker 4: on Washington. He wasn't in charge of the signs. He

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Speaker 4: was over there with John Lewis before he gave his speech,

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Speaker 4: which of course we know changed overnight. But then he

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Speaker 4: went out during the day and he made everybody cheese sandwiches,

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Speaker 4: cheese and mayonnaise sandwiches on white bread. That's what the

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Speaker 4: volunteers ate and the people who showed up to the march.

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Speaker 4: But when they left the march on Washington, they had

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Speaker 4: a goal of what they were going to do when

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Speaker 4: they left DC. And so look, if marches are your ministry,

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Speaker 4: and if the No Kings March moves your spirit, then

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Speaker 4: please participate. But make sure you're not just getting your

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Speaker 4: steps in. That is just to waste the time, and

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Speaker 4: we don't really have time to waste.

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Speaker 5: I love that, Bakari. Well, I think you're not alone

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Speaker 5: in that a lot of people don't really know what

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Speaker 5: the No King's protest is, even though many do so.

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Speaker 5: Right now, they're over twenty five hundred events planned, and

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Speaker 5: not just across every state here in the United States,

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Speaker 5: but worldwide. There are protests planned in Europe and Canada,

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Speaker 5: and people expect the number to grow even beyond twenty

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Speaker 5: five hundred events in these different places. Protest anchor events

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Speaker 5: will take place in Atlanta, Boston, Kansas City, New Orleans

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Speaker 5: and New Orleans as they say, San Francisco, Chicago, and

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Speaker 5: of course the nation's capital of DC. And I think

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Speaker 5: the reason why we're talking about this because on this

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Speaker 5: week's episode, our main episode of Native Lampod. We had

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Speaker 5: a wonderful viewer asked the questions should we be participating

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Speaker 5: in no Kings? And Andrew gave his thoughts and calls

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Speaker 5: to action, So please go be sure to check out

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Speaker 5: the main episode. And look, I think you know there

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Speaker 5: is some level of black people saying yeah, when it mattered,

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Speaker 5: we did what we had to do. We screened to

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Speaker 5: the mountaintops, don't vote for this man. We organized, we

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Speaker 5: did go GOTV efforts, get out the vote efforts for people.

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Speaker 5: And there are some people who are a little protested out,

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Speaker 5: which I completely understand that, and I'm not here to

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Speaker 5: criticize anybody's way of functioning h and surviving the times.

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Speaker 5: So I applaud everybody around who does choose to participate

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Speaker 5: in the Noah King's March, wherever you may be. Michael

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Speaker 5: Harriet and I had a good conversation about it, and

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Speaker 5: he was saying, it's kind of like people in the

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Speaker 5: NBA when they're ride and by and they look at

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Speaker 5: dudes playing pickup basketball and they're like, oh, okay, that's cool,

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Speaker 5: Like dude made a good jump shot. And that's how

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Speaker 5: black people look at protesting.

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Speaker 2: Because we have been.

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Speaker 5: We are pros at it. We have been protesting and

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Speaker 5: doing organizing work for so long. So I can't tell

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Speaker 5: somebody rather they should or should not participate. But I

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Speaker 5: am happy to see some pushback on this administration. I

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Speaker 5: just don't know what it stops, but I do know

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Speaker 5: we have to do something. Angela, you going Danny's in Seattle.

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Speaker 1: No, I don't feel called to protest or march, but Andrew,

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Speaker 1: I want to come to you on this too, because

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Speaker 1: I do think it's important for people to understand there

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Speaker 1: are a variety of tactics that we can and should

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Speaker 1: engage in people. I think people should go where they

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Speaker 1: feel called. What do you think rather?

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Speaker 3: I mean I tend to agree. I mean by all means,

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Speaker 3: if you're feeling the itch to get out there, but

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Speaker 3: you're trying to uphold this banner of the ninety two

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Speaker 3: and I did my part, and so am I being

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Speaker 3: a sucker if I get involved in something else. No,

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Speaker 3: I mean you live in the society. Society, you breathe

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Speaker 3: in it, you exist in it. We're not immune to

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Speaker 3: its impacts. In fact, we're at the epicenter of its impacts.

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Speaker 3: So for folks to take a unilateral. Look, hey, I

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Speaker 3: did my voting and I'm out. When has voting ever

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Speaker 3: been enough in this process? It's never ever been enough.

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Speaker 3: We've voted, we've voted for a long time, we've voted

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Speaker 3: since we've had the opportunity to do so. And yet

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Speaker 3: it's called for lawsuits, it's called for protests, it's called

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Speaker 3: for sit ins and sit outs, teach ins and teach outs.

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Speaker 3: It's called for us as a community, as society, having

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Speaker 3: to show up whatever the opportunity, for our voice to

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Speaker 3: be heard, for us to get a message across. We

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Speaker 3: got that message across. So I really, you know, I

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Speaker 3: don't I don't believe that there is some sacred space

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Speaker 3: where we get to retreat to and say I've done

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Speaker 3: my part, I'm tired, my feet of swollen, you go

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Speaker 3: do yours. If if the impact of the decisions on

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Speaker 3: the other side had that kind of a rollout, that'd

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Speaker 3: be one thing. Oh, the Blacks went out and they voted,

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Speaker 3: and so they don't get they won't get the tranche

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Speaker 3: of this to the third tranch around. That's not how

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Speaker 3: it works. We get the first of the negative tranch

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Speaker 3: and we're impacted all the way through the thing, and

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Speaker 3: so I'm not going to get up here and preach

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Speaker 3: and admonish people to go and do a thing. I'm

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Speaker 3: I'm not doing that. But I don't think that any

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Speaker 3: of us should decide that it is safe enough territory

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Speaker 3: that we went and voted, and therefore we did our thing,

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Speaker 3: and now we don't have another thing to do. I

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Speaker 3: don't think that makes sense, and that's not rooted in

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Speaker 3: any any part of our history. That's never been true.

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Speaker 3: Don't let other people confuse us about its truthfulness. And

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Speaker 3: at the same time, don't let anybody embarrass you or

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Speaker 3: or whip you into thinking that you've got to go

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Speaker 3: out and do a thing that you don't feel called

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Speaker 3: to do. But if it is hitting you this way,

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Speaker 3: and you recognize that the fight in human struggle towards

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Speaker 3: what's right is one that is continual, then you got

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Speaker 3: to do what you know you need to do. And

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Speaker 3: if no Kings is how it's formation, you know, coming

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Speaker 3: into formation for you, then no Kings it is. As

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Speaker 3: far as I'm concerned.

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Speaker 1: You know, I I do feel really strongly about people

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Speaker 1: doing what they feel called to do. Every time we

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Speaker 1: had a new volunteer join us on state of the people,

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Speaker 1: and they were like, well, what what what do you

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Speaker 1: all need? What do you want me to do? And

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Speaker 1: I would always say, what do you feel called to do?

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Speaker 1: And it's I think that's important one because normally, where

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Speaker 1: you feel called or pulled or led, it is in

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Speaker 1: alignment with your gifts, it is in alignment with your experience,

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Speaker 1: and it's in alignment with where you feel most comfortable,

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Speaker 1: which means you'll be able to present the best version

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Speaker 1: of yourself on the thing. I grew up with a

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Speaker 1: perpetual protester, a proud agitator. We got more, you know,

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Speaker 1: signs in the garage for causes.

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Speaker 3: Then you know, my mom.

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Speaker 1: Certainly would like for there to be, but my dad

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Speaker 1: keeps him in case he got to run that thing back.

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Speaker 1: I guess, I don't know. And he I used to

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Speaker 1: joke all the time and say, he has a bullhorn

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Speaker 1: in the car, you know, in the trunk, and sometimes

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Speaker 1: a battery might be there, but the bullhorn is present.

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Speaker 1: And so I used to frown upon that is a

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Speaker 1: tactic because I felt like they expected us to do that.

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Speaker 1: And I tend to agree with what Bakari was saying about.

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Speaker 1: You know what happens when the march is over, like

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Speaker 1: what is the next step? And I do think we

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Speaker 1: often get, you know, so focused on raising the money

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Speaker 1: and building the budget around that action, but there is

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Speaker 1: less of a strategy around what happens after that action.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm not poopo on pop a rye, but I

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Speaker 1: am saying that too often we have we have spent

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Speaker 1: so much energy just trying trying to raise the consciousness

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Speaker 1: and the awareness around whatever the activity is that we

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Speaker 1: often lack. How we build in an infrastructure and a strategy,

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Speaker 1: end goals and objectives that support our liberation. And so

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Speaker 1: what I'm choosing to do in this moment is not

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Speaker 1: to lean into reactive activity, to not lean into you know,

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Speaker 1: he's doing these eighty five things sus this week, and

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Speaker 1: here's my reaction to those things. I'm really trying to

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Speaker 1: deepen into what are re sponse looks like, what a

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Speaker 1: response feels like, and can it be something that includes

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Speaker 1: a solution for our people? And I just feel like

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Speaker 1: sometimes those things don't always include that. Now, I will

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Speaker 1: say my ignorance here.

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Speaker 3: No, I don't want to interrupt, I just wanted to

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Speaker 3: respond to upon it.

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Speaker 1: My ignorance here is that I have not studied no kings,

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Speaker 1: so they may have that and I'm just not aware

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Speaker 1: of that. But I know they've done some really big activations,

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Speaker 1: and I will say I've been encouraged by the numbers

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Speaker 1: of people who are showing up, but I would be

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Speaker 1: remiss if I didn't say that there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of folks who don't look like us who are participating.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that there are no black led orgs

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Speaker 1: or no black leaders involved, but we are overwhelmingly not present.

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Speaker 1: And I think if I were those organizers, I would

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Speaker 1: want to ask people, why, you know, what does solidarity

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Speaker 1: look like in this moment for the whole of us,

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Speaker 1: so that people feel like they should show up.

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Speaker 3: I didn't get to hear all of Baccari's message around

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Speaker 3: the phases and strategy here, but I will just say

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Speaker 3: this because I think I think we sometimes get a

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Speaker 3: little bit top heavy and sort of what's the zero

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Speaker 3: to one hundred approach on this thing? When I think

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Speaker 3: some things just serve that purpose. And I'll just say,

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Speaker 3: as it relates to Marsh's and just physical forms of resistance,

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Speaker 3: I probably have as a person who likes to think

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Speaker 3: of myself on the thinking, you know, what's the full

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Speaker 3: throttle piece of this, like, once we've done with this,

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Speaker 3: what is then to that? And then once we're done

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Speaker 3: with that, what's the strategy than this? And where I

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Speaker 3: have been most encouraged, where when I can't get the

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Speaker 3: satisfaction I want, on what the policy agenda is going

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Speaker 3: to look like in polate formation, where I have found

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Speaker 3: strength and in a reservoir of hope and a reservoir

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Speaker 3: of okay, we can do this thing. I don't know

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Speaker 3: why this feels so crazy, but it's when I looked

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Speaker 3: up and looked out and see that there were people

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Speaker 3: who had my back. I didn't even think they did,

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Speaker 3: just by their physical presence, the fact that they thought

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Speaker 3: enough to show up to stay in there, literally in

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Speaker 3: the gap. They didn't have to write a letter to

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Speaker 3: the paper, they didn't have to make a speech, but

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Speaker 3: their physical bodies gave me what I needed to just

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Speaker 3: get through that next thing. So I don't think we

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Speaker 3: should under underprize, underestimate, under calculate, under index what it

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Speaker 3: means to just be that force in the gap. And no,

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Speaker 3: I don't have the policy agenda. No I don't have

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Speaker 3: the total strategy I cannot satiate your need for a

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Speaker 3: policy paper, but I got my body, and right now

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Speaker 3: my body is standing right here in this moment in

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Speaker 3: resistance to what's going on. So I just I say

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Speaker 3: all that to say, do not for those of you

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Speaker 3: who physically take your bodies, who physically take yourselves down

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Speaker 3: to a No King's protest or to a movement for

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Speaker 3: black lives, or whatever the cause may be. I don't

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Speaker 3: want you to ever think that you're selling yourself or

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Speaker 3: the movement short because you didn't arrive there with a

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Speaker 3: complete plan in mind. Maybe what maybe was needed of

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Speaker 3: you in this moment is your physical self, so that

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Speaker 3: the person who is writing the policy paper or the

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Speaker 3: person in the in the will of the Senate trying

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Speaker 3: to move that policy thing to a vote and to action,

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Speaker 3: knows that they have people names that they can't call them,

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Speaker 3: faces they can't recognize outside this building, or holding it

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Speaker 3: down for them. When it feels like you can do

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Speaker 3: it all by yourself, and it finally hits on you

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Speaker 3: that you can't do this by yourself, that you can't

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Speaker 3: stand here alone and get what you want from and

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Speaker 3: that you need those bodies outside who are holding you

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Speaker 3: down to be right where they are. That's what your

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Speaker 3: contribution is in the moment. And I think what I

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Speaker 3: was envisioning that I think made me emotional as I

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Speaker 3: was thinking back to my trial, and I thought about

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Speaker 3: the speech of Letitia James at the top of our

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Speaker 3: show this week, and I was thinking about all these

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Speaker 3: people who will finding themselves in the legal cross hairs

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Speaker 3: of the system. While while many of us are opining

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Speaker 3: that ohe a judge and a jury and a whatever,

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Speaker 3: we'll see right through this and that there'll be vindication

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Speaker 3: on the other side, Well before you ever get to vindication,

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of sleepless nights and worry. And so

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Speaker 3: where my prayers go to for Letitia James and for

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Speaker 3: so many others is for their mental and spiritual health

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Speaker 3: and well being. What they're going through, something that they

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Speaker 3: don't deserve, and that many of us are believing that

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Speaker 3: on the other side of this will be justice. My

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Speaker 3: prayers go to their mental and spiritual health right now,

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Speaker 3: and that they'll have the fortitude to push through it

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Speaker 3: when everybody else is considered this a pretty drawn out conclusion,

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Speaker 3: it'll be okay, a judge, jury, and people of decent

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Speaker 3: and common sense will see the ridiculousness of this all

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Speaker 3: and they'll be fine. On the other side, well, every

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Speaker 3: night and every day, and every night and every day,

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Speaker 3: they still have to question will I have enough to

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Speaker 3: make mortgage? Will I be able to pull down enough

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Speaker 3: to ensure to my kids' colle you know, fund and

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Speaker 3: so on and so forth. I don't want to go

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Speaker 3: down the list of it, but just know there are

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Speaker 3: humans on the other sides of these titles. There are

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Speaker 3: humans on the other side of these charges. There's doubt,

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Speaker 3: there's fear, there's confusion, there's all other sorts of things.

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Speaker 3: When the leader of the free world is the on

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Speaker 3: the is on the up, you know, the opposite side

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Speaker 3: of you in this fight.

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Speaker 1: You know, ag I just want to thank you. You

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Speaker 1: know I had intended in our main episode. I just

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Speaker 1: wish we had more time because I really wanted to

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Speaker 1: hear from you about you know, every time you see

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Speaker 1: another one of these cases drop if it's triggering for you,

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Speaker 1: and so I even appreciate like the connection drawn to

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Speaker 1: like the no King's protests, and you've seen it as

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Speaker 1: a sign of solidarity with folks who are on the

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Speaker 1: other side of a vast abuse of power by this administration,

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Speaker 1: including the targeting and the selective prosecution of his political enemies.

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Speaker 1: So I I'm really grateful for you sharing that, and

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Speaker 1: I hope we can get this to Tish so that

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Speaker 1: she can see that she's certainly not forgotten, and in fact,

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Speaker 1: you see, the opposition of the people is something that

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Speaker 1: is deeply supportive of folks like you, and folks like

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Speaker 1: Tish and Marilyn and Lisa Cook and Fannie Willis who

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Speaker 1: have all been on the other side of this man

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Speaker 1: who wishes you were king, and people who are over like, folding, over,

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Speaker 1: bending over, taking a knee bow and whatever it is

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Speaker 1: to give him exactly what he wants. But we're not

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Speaker 1: always as clear about the people who are on the

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Speaker 1: other side of that and who have survived it, and

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Speaker 1: the long term impacts of having to find the strength

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Speaker 1: and the wherewithal to survive it. So I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to say thank you.

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Speaker 3: Oh I wish I could have given it without so

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Speaker 3: many tears. I don't even know. I think I feel

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Speaker 3: pheel bottled up probably on this, but you're right, every

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Speaker 3: time you see it, it is a revisiting of it.

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Speaker 3: For me, it's sort of like, you know, I hate

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Speaker 3: listening to the folks. Oh well, comment and decent people

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Speaker 3: will know that this is just such and such and such,

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Speaker 3: And I'm thinking you all are miscalculating the impact of

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Speaker 3: this wildly for people who are enduring it.

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Speaker 1: Your family's the cost, like the actual like we're talking

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Speaker 1: about the emotional cost. We talked about that too, and

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Speaker 1: the financial cost. Right Tis, James is in a slightly

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Speaker 1: different position because there's a legal defense fund that's being

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Speaker 1: raised for there are folks like Andrew who did not

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Speaker 1: have that at least not you know, to the full extent.

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Speaker 1: So I just think it is so important for us

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Speaker 1: to consistently revisit that and good brother, where you're feeling

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Speaker 1: bottled up, I hope that you see this as a

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Speaker 1: safe space to not only share, but also to offer

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Speaker 1: folks like tishan others a blueprint for how to navigate

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Speaker 1: it and do so successfully. Tif, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you have anything none.

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Speaker 5: No, I don't really have a lot to contribute except

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Speaker 5: to say thank you Andrew for your humanity and what

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Speaker 5: you shared, because even people whose case I know, we're

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Speaker 5: going to try to get this statist James and others,

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Speaker 5: but there are so many people whose cases do not

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Speaker 5: elevate to national news, who could be facing federal or

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Speaker 5: local charges because they're ensnared in a very punishing and

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Speaker 5: racist criminal justice system that does not prioritize our humanity

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Speaker 5: at all. So just thank you for sharing that. I

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Speaker 5: also want to say I have not yet watched, but

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Speaker 5: I want to encourage our viewers. I'm planning on watching

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Speaker 5: right now the conversation with Janney Nelson, who just argued

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Speaker 5: before the Supreme Court this week, And I just feel

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Speaker 5: touch that there's a black woman who made the argument

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Speaker 5: on behalf of voting rights and the first person she

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Speaker 5: left the Supreme Court and the first person that she

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Speaker 5: chose to sit down with was Angela and so I

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Speaker 5: just think that is a testament to who Angela Ria

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Speaker 5: is and what this Native Land platform means. So I

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Speaker 5: hope our audience will help elevate this very important interview

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Speaker 5: and show why Native Land Pod is such an important platform.

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Speaker 5: So if you like anything you heard in this conversation,

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Speaker 5: please share it, and if you do tune into the

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Speaker 5: Jennae Nelson interview, please share that. Not only is it informative,

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Speaker 5: but it certainly helps us be able to secure more

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Speaker 5: timely interviews like that where we're so often ignored and

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Speaker 5: discarded by white run newsrooms and legacy media that is

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Speaker 5: increasingly a dying force as they continue to fill us

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Speaker 5: every day. So thank you, guys.

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Speaker 1: Well, welcome home, y'all. Native Lamb Pod is a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and partnership with Rezent Choice Media. For more

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Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

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Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.