1 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:11,479 Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, 3 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyanton's episode number two hundred and sixty six, 5 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: and today on the show, we're joined by Kip Adams 6 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: of the Quality Deer Management Association for discussion of the 7 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: state of white tails in two thousand nineteen. All right, 8 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you 9 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: by Onyx. And today in the show, we've got Kip Adams, 10 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: the director of Conservation for the Quality Deer Management Association, 11 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: and we're gonna chat with Kip about the recently released 12 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: two thousand nineteen white Tail Report. Um. We've done this 13 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: almost every year since the beginning of the podcast. Each 14 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: year Quto made puts out this report and then we 15 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: kind of have this state of the white tail discussion 16 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: with Kip, kind of like the State of the Union address, 17 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: but this is like the state of the Union for deer. UM. 18 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: So that's what's gonna happen here shortly. But I do 19 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: have Dan the Man Johnson here uh for our pregame show, 20 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: which we haven't got to do in a few weeks so, 21 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: and this is future mark here. Quick heads up if 22 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: you do not care to hear about the random stories 23 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: and crazy thoughts and deer hunting and shed hunting plans 24 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: that Dan and I have that we discussed here in 25 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: our pregame show. If you just want to get to 26 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: the interview the kip, you can fast forward to maybe 27 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: like the seventeen and a half eighteen minute mark to 28 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: get right into that. But I highly suggest you stick 29 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: around for the weirdness. It's been too too long. Dan, 30 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:02,639 Speaker 1: and I've actually been thinking a lot about you lately. 31 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: I don't know if you could. I don't know if 32 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: you could feel that. And and I've been thinking about 33 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: you lately late at night while I've been laying in bed. 34 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: I think I've been feeling that same way too. More 35 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: don't want to, but it's for it's for very different 36 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: reasons that I imagine why you're imagining me is because alright, 37 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: just bit it out, start to watch. I'm actually reading 38 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: a book where the character's name is nine fingers. Really yeah, 39 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: guy's name is Logan nine fingers. And now just the 40 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: whole time, I've just been picturing you, know when you 41 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: I don't know. You don't read much, can you read? 42 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: So what I think when you when you read books, 43 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:45,919 Speaker 1: lots of times you imagine what the person, the character 44 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: might look like. So I just imagine this guy looking 45 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: exactly like you. So you are this character in this book. Um, 46 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: pretty badass character though. You You walk around with the 47 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: sword and you kill a bunch of people. So so yeah, 48 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: you're you've got a good character. Um, it's a good book. 49 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: It's called I think it's called By the Blade Itself 50 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 1: or The Blade Itself something like that, kind of like 51 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: a Game of Thrones type book. Kind of nerdy but 52 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 1: but gritty. I've been doing some Game of Throne in Yeah. 53 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: I like the show. Yeah, I just started watching it 54 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: last month. So how far are you into it? I'm 55 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: on season three right now. Season three okay, so no spoilers. 56 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: I won't tell you too much. But it's good. It's 57 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: really good, and it gets you thinking about Yeah, I've 58 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: been thinking about you. I'm glad you're you're watching Game 59 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: of Thrones now. And um, if you pick up reading 60 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: at some point and this will be a book, I'll 61 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: send you too as well. So so that's all I 62 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: got for the introd egge, folks, We're gonna go to 63 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: Kip Adams now Dan Johnson and then uh and then 64 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: you hang up all right like your style? How are you? Man? 65 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: It's been too long. I know, I know, I don't know. 66 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: Has uh your mouth been watering as much as mine 67 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: to get out and do some shed hunting. Yeah, man, 68 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: that is exactly what I was hoping we talked about, 69 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: because that's especially we just had. You know, I'm sure 70 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: you guys had the same thing. Tons of snow and 71 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: cold and then now this warm spell, so all the 72 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 1: snow has melted here, and um, it just looks like 73 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: prime as you would say, scooping. It looks like prime 74 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: scooping weather or scooping conditions, I should say, right, I'll 75 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: tell you what an Instagram. There's some guys are not 76 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 1: close to me, but in I guess in Iowa who 77 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: have been finding some good sheds already. So it makes 78 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 1: me want to get out even more. I know, I 79 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 1: am very tempted to go out and do like an 80 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: early walk, you know, at least for me. I never 81 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: want to go out too much too early and start 82 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: pushing things around before most of you have dropped at 83 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: the same time, though, like you said, there are antlers 84 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: out there, and you hate to have antlers laying around 85 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: and then get chewed up. You know, right right, when 86 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: do you think you're gonna start? When's your first shed plan? Well, 87 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: that's funny, you asked Mark Kenyon, because there is a 88 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 1: chance if I can swindle my mom into watching the kids, 89 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 1: I might go on a walk Saturday with the wife. 90 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: Nice main farm down south. Yeah, and not dig into 91 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: the timber at all, but probably just the field edges, 92 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: um where all the corn was this year, and we 93 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: had some late corn and I even think we had 94 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:32,679 Speaker 1: some snow on the ground before before the harvest. So 95 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: the last time I checked there was still I mean 96 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: this was December, but uh still a lot of corn 97 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: left on the ground from when they did the combining, 98 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: and uh the beans were standing late. So hopefully some 99 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: of the pods and stuff dropped off and um, hopefully 100 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: that just kept the deer in the area late season. 101 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 1: And I have kind of a repeat of late February 102 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 1: last year when I found it was nine in one day. 103 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: You know, what's the what's the situation in that little 104 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: honey hoole? Is that where you saw the good food 105 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 1: still on top of the ground. Right, it was the 106 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 1: same field, but the let's see, this year, the corn 107 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: was closer to the road as opposed to last year 108 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 1: it was closer to the back fence line. And I'm 109 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: not sure, you know, I don't know if you've ever 110 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: tried to shed hunt in corn stubble. Yeah, it's not easy. 111 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: And I felt like if I just go back and 112 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 1: forth every row, maybe i'd try to, you know, i'd 113 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: find some matching sets, but you know, try to match up, 114 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,039 Speaker 1: especially the big one. But you know I'm not going 115 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 1: to do that, just not enough time. So you know, 116 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: you hit the you hit the power places, and you 117 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: move on the buffer strips. Right, absolutely. Yeah. I um, 118 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: I'm a little concerned at least for my local shed 119 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 1: hunting because you know, on the main Michigan spot, I 120 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: have an average of one shed antler a year across 121 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 1: all the properties that can shed hunt in that area, 122 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 1: and I already have that one shed for year. So 123 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: I'm worried that I haven't even started shed hunting. I 124 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 1: have the one shed because I think I told you, 125 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: um neighbor shots that buck survivor, right, I told you 126 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: that story and he found a shed on the property 127 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: I can hunt while he was tracking the deer, so 128 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: he gave me that shed. Um. So I'm a little 129 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: worried that I haven't even started yet and my shed 130 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: ending is already maxed out. So traveling will probably be 131 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: the name of the game for me. But yeah, I 132 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: think probably mid February when I'll start maybe hitting it hard, 133 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: but I'm probably tempted to do a little edgewalking, maybe 134 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: even this weekend too. Yeah, it would have been nice 135 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: to get out there a little bit, even before the 136 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: snow melted, just to see their travel patterns through the 137 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: snow and see almost where you need to concentrate. But man, 138 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: a majority of the snow, I think like six of 139 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: the snow is already melted, and even down south is 140 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: even more so. Um. And it almost sounds like we're 141 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: gonna get some snow later tonight or in tomorrow a 142 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: little bit, and then it's gonna warm up again and 143 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: thaw again. So Saturday could just be a mud fest. Um, 144 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: speaking of snow coming in and melting off and then 145 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: getting poured down again. I am trying, well, it's hard 146 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: to say right now. In the past, I've always playing 147 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: my Iowa shed hunting trips based off of like when 148 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: the group's gonna go, and and kind of try to 149 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: coordinate things with some some of my buddies here in Michigan, 150 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: so we all drive out together. But I think this 151 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: year I'm gonna try to stay a little more flexible 152 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: and try to just make it out there when it 153 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: seems like you guys have a good snow melt and 154 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: just make sure that the conditions are right. Um. But 155 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to get out there for like a 156 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: week maybe and maybe early to mid March, depending on conditions. 157 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: So we'll have to see if your schedule lines up 158 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: at all to come do some walking with us again. Yeah. Absolutely. 159 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: I don't know, dude. I just the older I get, 160 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: the more I love hunting. I don't know what did it? Why? Really? 161 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: I mean I love doing all the other things like 162 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,679 Speaker 1: early season scouting and doing the tree stand work and 163 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: the running gun and the actual hunting, But there's something 164 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: about shed hunting that I just I don't know. I'm drawn, Tom, 165 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 1: I'm right there with you. Um. I know you don't 166 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: have a whole lot of flexibility and schedule and stuff sometimes, 167 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: but if you can somehow sneak away and you want 168 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: to do a long drive. I'm hitting out heading out 169 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: west again for some shed hunting in late March two. 170 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: And um, where are you thinking? Probably North Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, 171 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,439 Speaker 1: somewhere around there, um, give or take. I don't. I 172 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: have zero set plans yet, but I'll probably go to 173 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,839 Speaker 1: Montana for sure, because I'll go there for some media 174 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: related stuff and hit some of the properties I know 175 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 1: around there. Um, but I wouldn't mind trying to extend 176 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: it and hit some stuff on the way or something. Yeah. Absolutely, 177 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: And that's a good transition because as of right now, 178 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: other than thinking about shed hunting, I've all so been 179 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: doing a lot of thinking and early planning on what 180 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do for my Western trips next year. And 181 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: I'm going to do the elk hunt, right, and then 182 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: I've got the tentative. Right when I asked the wife, 183 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 1: she was in a good mood. So I might be 184 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: doing a second Western trip, a mule deer hunt in 185 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: South Dakota. So if I do make a like a 186 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: Western marchish type, you know, shed hunt thing, I think 187 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,199 Speaker 1: that what I'm gonna try to do is go to 188 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 1: some of the places that I've scouted through Onyx and 189 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: get you know, get some boots on the ground and 190 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: at least just get a lay of the land out 191 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: there and you know, call it shed hunting, but really 192 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: scouting without giving out too much detail. Are you talking 193 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: like southwest south central? Like it must be southwest right 194 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: for Mely's. Uh, well, they have Muley's all over South Dakota. 195 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: So I've there's basically if you cut the state in half, 196 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: east west. I've had people give me information all like 197 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: just all on the west west coast or west side 198 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: of the state. Yeah, so north or northwest, southwest? Um? North, 199 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: I think it's northeast of the Black Hills. Yes, so okay, yeah, 200 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 1: that whole I mean, that whole area is pretty awesome. 201 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: I mean you would you would love that terrain. I 202 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: drive through it a lot when I'm going back and 203 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: forth from Montana, and every time I drive through, I'm 204 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: just kind of salvating, just wondering why aren't I why 205 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: I'm not hunting here right right? And that's the you know, 206 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: I got, I got some good intel, I got some 207 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: good you know that I started doing my research. Um, 208 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: and now it's just a matter of making it happen. Uh, 209 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: I don't know. That's so I've been spending a lot 210 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: of time on on X lately. It's easy to get 211 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: sucked into that. Oh man, it's so easy to Yeah, 212 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: I got I've got like two different things that will 213 00:11:57,559 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: end up sucking my time in at night. If I'm 214 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: not geting a book, I'm either looking at on X, 215 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: looking at like public land stuff, trying to find different 216 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: places to hunt, look at river bottoms or scouting this 217 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: thing or that thing, or I'm looking online at properties 218 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 1: for sale. I'm doing like one of two different things, 219 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: either looking at properties I dream of buying, or looking 220 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 1: at d I Y stuff I want to dream of exploring, right, um, 221 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 1: and not sleeping. So we're both we're both inflicted in 222 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: that way. Um, how did you manage like this? Are 223 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 1: you cutting back on some of the rut stuff? No? Um, 224 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: I don't know yet, right, I mean, I don't know. 225 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:38,959 Speaker 1: I there, I'm to the point now with I think 226 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: I told you a little bit about this, But I'm 227 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: to the point now with the Sportsman's Nation that I 228 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 1: might be getting close to being able to step away 229 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: from it, right and step away from my job and 230 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: and potentially do this full time. Uh, you know, the 231 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: next two or three months, probably actually up until June 232 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: will tell me a lot. And if I can get 233 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: the things that need to be gotten done done, then 234 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 1: I'll be able to have a lot more freedom in 235 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: my schedule. A k A hunt in Michigan, All right, 236 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: I was just gonna say that was the next thing 237 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:19,199 Speaker 1: out of my mouth, right, so I would, Uh, I 238 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:21,959 Speaker 1: gotta make a lot of you know, some things happen yet, 239 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:23,959 Speaker 1: and if I can make that happen, you know, everything 240 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: becomes a lot more flexible. And um, I really want 241 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: to do I really want to do this mule to 242 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: your hunt, which I think I'll probably be doing any way, 243 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: regardless of if that happens. You know, my wife has 244 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: given me I'm in a good mood now approval. I 245 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: don't know if you know what that means. But when 246 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,439 Speaker 1: you take it and run though, right, that's right, that's right. 247 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: So she'll be mad at me then, But right now 248 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: she said, yeah, that's you know, she said, yeah, that's okay. 249 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: But you're you're gonna do what you want anyway. So 250 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know what that means. That 251 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: means you're setting proper expectations. Dan, that's good. Exactly What 252 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: a sound like though, is like you're taking this week 253 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: long trip to Colorado for elk. You're gonna spend however 254 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: long it's gonna be out hunting mule deer. I'm gonna 255 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: draw an Iowa white tail tag this year. It sounds 256 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: like someone should be watching over your Iowa ground, taking 257 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: care of it, monitoring trail cameras, taking a deer too, 258 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: to make sure it's being properly managed. I know a 259 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: guy that might help you with that. How many points 260 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: do you have? I think all three. I don't know 261 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: if that'll get you in my spot, but it might. 262 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm in I'm in the zone south 263 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: of where you typically hunt. Yes, yeah, so yeah usually 264 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: I think that from what I've always heard that that 265 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: was like a three or four point zone probably so, 266 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: um so yeah, it's that's definitely not sure thing. I'll 267 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: probably apply for the usual spot I do, um because 268 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: it should be a sure thing there. But um well, 269 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: that'd that would be. That's something we need to talk 270 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: about a little further afterwards, because if you have enough 271 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 1: points to draw my zone, I might be able to 272 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: find some spots for you that you know they would, 273 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: they'd be better than anything. Probably you hunted up in 274 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: that north zone. But you might have to fight some 275 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: fight with some other people. But you're doing that already. Yeah, 276 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: a bunch of people. Is it like when you say 277 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: fight stuff? Is it like arm wrestle? Is it? I mean, 278 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: what kind of fight are we talking? Because I'm not 279 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: well equipped for nest arm wrestles, but I'm kind of quick. 280 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: I'm slightly surprising in certain ways. I might be able 281 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: to take a guy. Yeah, you're tall, you're lanky. The 282 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: lanky guys always seemed to get it done long arm, 283 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: long arms arms right, so at least when you're trying 284 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: to slap them to get away from you, you can 285 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: keep the distance. And that's my style too, lots of slaps. Um. Yeah, dude, 286 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: we should talk about it some more. Um My buddy 287 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: Dustin was supposed to co out in hunt, Iowa this year. 288 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: Corey hunted last year. He's not coming. Josh was talking 289 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: about coming hunting in this year, but all of them are. 290 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: They're all bailing. So now I'm the probably only one 291 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: coming out, So my my plans are very much up 292 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: in the air. But Um, it's all exciting. I'm already 293 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: fully gung ho for shud hunting and it's before you 294 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: know it, we'll be out there hold the bows again. 295 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: So absolutely, And that's one thing, man, I'm so freaking 296 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: busy right now that just with work and everything and 297 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: family and and planning, and it's like I get to 298 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: bed and my brain is not shut off because I 299 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: know I need to be, you know, shooting my bow 300 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: or doing something bow related, and I'm not and I 301 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: need I need to be. So it's almost like I 302 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: need to spend an hour at the end of the day, 303 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: even if it's just drawing my bow back ten times. 304 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: I need to be doing it. But I've been a 305 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: I've been a bum when it comes to that. Yeah, 306 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: I I admittedly have not been doing very well the 307 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: last month either. But one thing I did do, which 308 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: I need to do it again, but I set up 309 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: a very short range archery range in my office. Literally 310 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: it's just ten yards through a closet, but that's just 311 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: enough where you can just practice like your release, you know, 312 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: draw back and just focus on a perfect surprise release. 313 00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: And that was something that helped me all out last year. 314 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: Um that you know, when you can't get outside. It's 315 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 1: just a nice way you can get you know, a 316 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: few shots and every night, just to keep that form. 317 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,880 Speaker 1: And I don't know, just work on some of your fundamentals. 318 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: That probably helps better than nothing, right, Right, My luck 319 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: is I'd probably blow through the target and put it 320 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,439 Speaker 1: ahole in my dry wall, or worse yet, like hit 321 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 1: something electrical and it just like the worst case scenario 322 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 1: happens and I burned my whole house down. Uh. I 323 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: can't remember who this was. It might be our buddy, 324 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:34,439 Speaker 1: I don't want to a friend of ours. Um once 325 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: was doing this inside of his house, shooting at a 326 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 1: target inside the house, trying to practice during the offseason. 327 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: And if I remember correctly, he missed the target, went 328 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: through the drywall and burst a waterline. No ship, yeah, 329 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: burst of waterline. So really be careful about how you 330 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 1: set up your indoor range, right, absolutely, absolutely? Oh man, well, 331 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: um we probably should. We probably should wrap this one 332 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: up and get kiped on here. But um, let's chat 333 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: more soon about shed hunting and uh impossible, Iowa double 334 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 1: teams and and maybe Michigan. There you go. I like 335 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: it all right, Let's take a quick break here, So 336 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: we want to thank our friends at Morton Buildings for 337 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: their support of this podcast. And Morton Buildings are the 338 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 1: builders of wood frame, steel covered buildings that can be 339 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: used for all sorts of different things related to what 340 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: I think you and I probably want to do with 341 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 1: a hunting property or a home or a storage facility. 342 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,959 Speaker 1: They can they can build pull barns, they can build garages, 343 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: actually Paul Barn houses all sorts of different types of 344 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: storage facilities, Lots of options out there, very customizable, and 345 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 1: as I've mentioned over the past couple episodes, I've kind 346 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: of been dreaming about having a Poul Barn house of 347 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 1: my own someday. I imagine one where you've got maybe 348 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: a quarter of it is a large open garage area, 349 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 1: and then the other three cors of the building are 350 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: this really open space. I imagine vault ceilings, very high ceilings, 351 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: with a big open area that includes like your living room, 352 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,959 Speaker 1: your kitchen, your dining area. That's all kind of one 353 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: big opening, and then there's gonna be aloft where a 354 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 1: couple of bedrooms are gonna be. That's kind of like 355 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: my dream little home that maybe if I someday can 356 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: can afford to get a little hunting property or by 357 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 1: a little spot maybe out in Montana. Someday I want 358 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 1: to put that pol barn house on it. And Morton 359 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:27,879 Speaker 1: Buildings they seem to be the ones to do this 360 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: kind of job. They have several things that make them 361 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: particularly an interesting option. They've got some exclusive energy Performer 362 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: installation which is gonna help make for more efficient heating 363 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: and cooling. They have high ribs steel that requires almost 364 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 1: no maintenance at all. And now through February two, nineteen, 365 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 1: there are some special promotional prices for Morton Buildings, so 366 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: you can learn more about that at Morton Buildings dot com. 367 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: All right here with me on the line now is 368 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: Kip Adams. Welcome back to the show. Kip, Hey, thanks 369 00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: for having me Mark always going to talk to you. Yeah, 370 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: I agree. I feel like somehow I left the ball 371 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: drop last year because every year since we've had the podcast, 372 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: I believe we've had you on the show to do 373 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: kind of a state of the white Tails address, as 374 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: you kind of each year do your white Tail report 375 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: and kind of share your fightings here with us, and 376 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: somehow I forgot to get ahold of you do that 377 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,199 Speaker 1: last year. So I'm glad that we're back on it. Um, 378 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: I know there's will be a lot of interesting stuff 379 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: to dive into. But before we get to that, kid, 380 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: I actually wanted to um to to to poke and 381 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: pride you to tell a story, at least at least 382 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: one story. Here, Kip, I saw you killed an awesome 383 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 1: buck out in North Dakota, and I haven't got to 384 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 1: hear what happened. Could you tell us that story? I 385 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 1: sure can. And uh, and yes, that's correct, Mark. I 386 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: was very fortunate and got to shoot a really nice 387 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: dear on my friends land in North Dakota. And uh, 388 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: there's actually a kind of two unique parts about that. 389 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: Is one, Um, I met this guy through q d 390 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 1: m A a number of years ago with a dear 391 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: Stewart class and we we've remained very close friends since 392 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: and hunting together numerous times. So it's it's always nice 393 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: to get to go there. And uh, you know, the 394 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,959 Speaker 1: real value was just being with him and seeing him 395 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: in the hunt. But Uh, I was very lucky this 396 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 1: this past November, actually, my friend's young son was hunting 397 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 1: and we were a few days into the hunt. My 398 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 1: friend's young son had not shot a buck yet, and uh, 399 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: and I was joking with my friend, said, hey, you 400 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,479 Speaker 1: got to take a selfie while you're in the stand. 401 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 1: You know that'll bring your son good luck. Every time 402 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: I take my daughter or my young son hunting, the 403 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: first thing we do is again to stand, we take 404 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: a selfie of ourselves, and you know that that's supposed 405 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: to be good to the dear gods and bring us luck. Really, 406 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: the the morning that I shot this deer, it was 407 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 1: it was less than an hour after late, and I 408 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: was in the stand, and uh, my buddy, I knew 409 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: my buddy and his young son were in the stand 410 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: several miles away, and uh and I had texted him. 411 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 1: And I'm normally very vigial when I'm on stand. You know, 412 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: I may check a text or whatever, but I'm I'm 413 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: mostly impredator mode at that point, and you know, I'm 414 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: w any. I text him and said, hey, you need 415 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,880 Speaker 1: to send me, you know, a selfie for good luck. 416 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: And uh so I'm watching and I'm having I'm sitting 417 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: above with this river, real thick right parient habitat kind 418 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,159 Speaker 1: of open around it, but clumps of trees. So the 419 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 1: spot that I thought I would have the most like 420 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: most likely to see deer was. It was a very 421 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,360 Speaker 1: narrow crossing, so I had to be on guard for sure, 422 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: because when something came in it could get out of 423 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: it very quickly, and then I likely would never see 424 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,719 Speaker 1: it again. And uh so, anyway, I just text my body, said, hey, 425 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 1: you need to send me a picture, you know, to 426 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 1: bring Hunter good luck today. That's his boy's name, and 427 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: uh so I set my phone down and watching, and 428 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 1: literally a minute later it buzzes and I look and 429 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: I can see a picture, so I know it's my 430 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 1: buddy sending and I literally picked my phone up smiled 431 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: because a there's a dad, you know, proud bad and 432 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 1: his young son. And I started to respond and thank 433 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: Gosh Mark for whatever reason. I look back up and 434 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: this deer that I shot had busted into this narrow 435 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: opening and was quickly closing the I set the phone 436 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: out quickly through my binoculars up and saw that he 437 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 1: luckily had he had stopped momentarily, had this big heavy 438 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 1: chest and he turned his head and I saw that 439 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: one of his uh tailer has had a big heavy 440 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,239 Speaker 1: blade on it, and I knew this year is at 441 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: least four years old, certainly well than what my buddy 442 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: would want us to shoot on his land. You know, 443 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 1: I grabbed my rifle and immediately safety off, and so 444 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: actually seeing the deer to pulling the trigger happened very 445 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: very quickly. Literally got at the deer, just ran a 446 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: few steps and dropped, and then you know, and then 447 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: the real nerves hit you. And I looked back down 448 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: and my I had just started to compose the text 449 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: back to my buddy, telling him this will bring luck today, 450 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: and at the smile of myself and saying, oh my gosh, 451 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: you know it did bring you luck for me, not 452 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: necessarily for him. So I responded to his text and said, great, 453 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: you know that's a great picture. You know today is 454 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 1: going to be the day. I can feel it thinking 455 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: you don't talk about him, but you know I would 456 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: tell them later how the whole sequence of events worked out. 457 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 1: So so I guess the self he was good luck, 458 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 1: but I turned out to be good luck for me. 459 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 1: That the second part of that that actually it was 460 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: uniquely so anybody turned out to be what I thought 461 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,160 Speaker 1: initially was it was a four and a half year 462 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: old deer. After I got the jaw out and got 463 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 1: a good look at it, it actually was five and 464 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 1: a half and the incisors to Matson's lab. So those 465 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: will come back here in a couple of months and 466 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 1: I'll know for sure, but at least by tooth were 467 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 1: it was five and a half. But I posted that 468 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 1: on my Instagram page later. And I'm not one to 469 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 1: share oh look what I shot, like, I've never done that, 470 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: but I will always share information, you know, to try 471 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 1: to help others be more successful hunting. And uh that 472 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: what I was stating with this was, you know, it 473 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: was mid November. My friend and his father had thousands 474 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,679 Speaker 1: and thousands of trail camera pictures of deer in their farm. 475 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: You know, they scoured all the time. They had never 476 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 1: seen this, dear. So what I had said was, you know, boy, today, 477 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: you know I was blessed to get this. Here's the 478 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: point of this. You know they had all his intel 479 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,959 Speaker 1: never see us. So you know, even if you're not 480 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: seeing what you want, it's made November. Just go hunting. 481 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: You never know what could happen. So I post that literally, 482 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: you know, an hour later, I get a message from 483 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: somebody that I do not know through Instagram that they said, hey, 484 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: you know, where are you hunting? Intrth Dakota and they 485 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: sent me a picture. Uh. Anyway, it turns out there 486 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 1: was a picture of the buck that I shot. They 487 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: had trail camera pictures of it. They had actually watched 488 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: it h during the summer, had seen it alive, had 489 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: trail camera pictures. The rack was very unique, so there 490 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 1: was no doubt it was the same deer. Long story short, Uh, 491 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: these people are from North Dakota. UM. The wife's father 492 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: is a friend of my friend's father who from out there, 493 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: and they know each other. It turns out they had 494 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 1: land pretty close together. So I mean, we're lucky. I 495 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: shot an incredible deer. I made some new friends out 496 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: of it. Um. It was just a really really special 497 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: deer and special story all the way around. That's great. 498 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,919 Speaker 1: That is awesome to see. Um all that all that 499 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: great camaraderie with your buddy there you're hunting, and then, 500 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: like you said, having someone kind enough to reach out 501 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: and share pictures of you. That's that's kind of the 502 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: you sometimes hear about the the downside of people taking 503 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: deer hunting so seriously, and people getting jealous and and 504 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: letting deer get in the way of friendships and things 505 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 1: like that, And this is the exact opposite of that, 506 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,719 Speaker 1: the very um, the very best of what we can 507 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: be as deer hunters. And I think that's a a 508 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 1: great example of that. Oh, I agree, I agree, that's terrific. Um. 509 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: So it sounds like where you set up in that spot, 510 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,360 Speaker 1: it was. It kind of sounds like a great kind 511 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: of pinch point type situation for cruising buxs during the rut. 512 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: Was that the setup, and it really was. It was 513 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,879 Speaker 1: you know, rivers tend to, as you know, tend to 514 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,120 Speaker 1: be great movement corridors anyway, you know, and a lot 515 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: of deer coming in into and out they'll use those 516 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: to travel long distances. And just the way that the 517 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: brush patches were arranged, you know, it was kind of 518 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 1: going from cover piece of cover to cover and because 519 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: you know, it's perfect place for those to be in 520 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 1: there and lay in bed, and so I think he 521 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: was taking advantage of the train to make it most 522 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: likely to be able to get from one point to another, 523 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,479 Speaker 1: but then hitting those brush patches on the way just 524 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,400 Speaker 1: to see if any other deer were laying there or betted. So, um, 525 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 1: they really worked that well for me that morning. I'm 526 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: very lucky for sure. Yeah, that's a that's a great 527 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: kind of spot to be in in mid November, no 528 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 1: doubt about that. UM. We'll congrats, Kip. That's a beautiful, 529 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: beautiful deer awesome story too. Thank you very much, Mark, 530 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,479 Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Yeah. So so let's let's get right 531 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: into I guess the meat and potatoes here, though you 532 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 1: and and I think Matt Ross still is involved with 533 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: the white Tail Report to you guys put out a 534 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,880 Speaker 1: heck of a document every year. UM. For those who 535 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: aren't familiar with this, can you give us a quick 536 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: rundown of what the white Tail Report is, um, and 537 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: why you guys do that every year? Sure? The white 538 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: Tail Report is a really a state of the Union 539 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: look at what's going on in the white tails world. 540 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: And we started this just over a decade ago to 541 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: provide today's information on deer harvest age structures, the biggest 542 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: concerns impacting deer herds, big regular regulation changes of that 543 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 1: kind of thing for for deer hunters and for natural 544 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,920 Speaker 1: resource professionals and deer managers and in the media all 545 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: throughout the white tails range. You know, there was no 546 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: one consolidated source for all of this information. So every 547 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: fall we survey every state and provincial WALEFE agency and 548 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 1: UH and get information from them on the prior years 549 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 1: deer harvest age structure, that harvest, timing of the harvest, 550 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: and then the biggest issues impact in deer management in 551 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: their state or profits. And then we put all this 552 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: data together, compile it, and then go through and analyze 553 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: it and see what we think will be most important, 554 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: are most meaningful and helpful for deer managers and hunters, 555 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: and then we put it together in this document that 556 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: includes three parts. Part one is a deer harvest information 557 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: state by state and province by province information on a 558 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: number of antlerd buck seter shot and then uh, you 559 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 1: know how many bucks are killed per square a mile 560 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: per one deer hunters, how this compares to prior years. 561 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: So it's a nice way to be able to look 562 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: at how your state compares to other states in your 563 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: region or other states in the country, just to see 564 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: what's going on within the deer hunting world. And we 565 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: find it very helpful. I literally have every one of 566 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: these on my desk and use them on a regular basis. 567 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: It's a it's a great source of information and UH, 568 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: I tell folkus you know, if you're a deer nut. 569 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: You want to get your hands on one of these 570 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: just to see this kind of information and kind of 571 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 1: how your state pairs to to others. Yeah, it really 572 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: is fascinating information, and it's it's available for free to download. Right, folks, 573 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: just need to go to the cut May website and 574 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: you can get the whole document this year, in all 575 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: the previous years still too, right, that's scratch up all 576 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: free downloads and they're all listed right at our website. Yeah, 577 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: it's it's great. I'm kind of cure. As you mentioned, 578 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,239 Speaker 1: this is about ten years guys have been doing it. 579 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: Have you seen any changes in the quality of reporting 580 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: and tracking from the state agencies? Have Have they started 581 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: to track more things and provide more data now that 582 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: there's people like you asking for this stuff? Have you 583 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 1: noticed anything on those lines? We have had noticed a 584 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: big difference in the two thousand and nineteen report that 585 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: we just published, as is the eleventh annual copy of it. 586 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: So back in two thousand and nine when we first 587 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: did it, UM state WALRT agencies get asked or get 588 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: provided surveys from you know, outdoor writers and different folks. 589 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: Throughout the course of the years, and I remember when 590 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 1: I was in New Hampshires, dear by, I'll just not 591 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: remember those. And at times it can be a little overwhelming, 592 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: you know, asking for all this information. So the very 593 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: first year we did this, um it was met with 594 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: some resistance by some agencies that you know, I handle 595 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: a lot of the stuff. I don't have time for 596 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: this or um. But I kept egging them and pushing 597 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: them and hey, you know, can we please get this 598 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: you know, this is what we're doing. But you know, 599 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: we certainly get information from all the agencies then and 600 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: we still go now, but we get it from the 601 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 1: vast majority now. So in the early years we had 602 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: to pay teeth from some of them to try to 603 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: get information. But then over the course of time we 604 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: found out that, you know, they started using it as well, 605 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 1: and it was useful for them and helpful for them. 606 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: So as soon as they realize, well, yeah, this is 607 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: good and helpful, then we can get the data a 608 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: little easier, which is good. And and I tell every 609 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: state's dear biologists each year when we send the survey, hey, 610 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: you know, we want this to be helpful to you. 611 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: If there's any questions that you would like to include 612 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: on here that you think would be helpful or help 613 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: you in your job, you know, let me know, and 614 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: we're glad to include those. So over the other last 615 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: eleven years we've we've had several questions that were um 616 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: asked by State Wilife Agency biologists such as you know 617 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: it it would be nice to know, you know whatever, 618 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: you know this is around the country. So uh yeah, 619 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: so it's nice to put those in. We try to 620 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 1: make it helpful to them. Today, it's a lot easier 621 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: to get it's a much better cooperation between us and 622 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: the agencies, you know, with them submitting this information. So yeah, 623 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: that's a good thing, a very good thing. Yeah, that's great. 624 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: So that being the case, you're getting more data than ever, 625 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: higher quality data than ever. And you've been doing this 626 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: for eleven years now, you've seen kind of some ups 627 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: and downs. I remember, gosh, I don't remember if it 628 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: was two in fourteen or fifteen, or somewhere between thirteen 629 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 1: and fifteen in that ballpark, I remember we kind of 630 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: had a little bit of a rough patch as far 631 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: as um harvest trends and disease, and there was there 632 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 1: was some concern within the white tailed world are the 633 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: good old days behind us. Maybe, Um, there's some sense 634 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: of concern if you look at things at a very 635 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: high level right now, Kip, how what's your sense of things? 636 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: What what is the state of white tails today in 637 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 1: two thousand nineteen. Well, there's a lot of really positive 638 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 1: trends in the white tailed world. Um, I'm an optimist, 639 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: so I tend to see things with a glass half 640 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: fool anyway. But there are some some really positive trends 641 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: such as things like, uh, what you we talked about, 642 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: we had two thousand and fourteens kind of a year 643 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: or wild things were just really not good from a 644 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 1: harvest end from a disease end um, but certainly from 645 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: the buck harvest side, we have really recovered from that. 646 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: And uh, we're are buck harvest rates are getting up 647 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: to some pretty historic numbers. Or we've returned to killing 648 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: a lot of bucks, which hunters certainly like. And uh, 649 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: the one thing about it that that's very different from 650 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: the past is that the age structure of those bucks 651 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: is considerably older today. So you know, we're we're killing 652 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 1: some really high numbers, but rather than the majority of 653 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: them being one and a half, you know, today we 654 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: have a very balanced age structure in the harvest where 655 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: only about a third of them are are yealing bucks 656 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: about another third or two and a half years old, 657 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 1: and full third today are at least three and a half. 658 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 1: You know, so we're killing a pile of dear today 659 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 1: bucks that are three and a half, four and a half, 660 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: five and a half are older. And so that's pretty special. 661 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: And man, that really gets to two hunters excited. Yeah. Absolutely, 662 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 1: And kind of along those lines, I saw an interesting 663 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: thing kind of speaking to the tracking, the new tracking, 664 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 1: I saw that you're also now able to get some 665 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,359 Speaker 1: dough age structure data, which I thought was was something 666 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: I hadn't remember seeing in past years. I thought that 667 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 1: was interesting. I'm correct me if I'm wrong here, but 668 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 1: I think I saw the the largest group of dough 669 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 1: harvested across the nation war three and a half or 670 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,840 Speaker 1: older as well. Is that is that correct? That is correct? 671 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,799 Speaker 1: And yeah, the dough age structure is different in the 672 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:40,399 Speaker 1: box um in, but it was different in that by 673 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 1: far the biggest segment of those are three and a 674 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: half or older. And we started that a few years 675 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 1: into this, probably just to see, hey, what what percentage 676 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 1: of all the analysts you're taking our bonds. Um, that's 677 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,439 Speaker 1: always interesting for hunters. And then uh, we started looking 678 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,399 Speaker 1: at that data and realize, now this is really good. 679 00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: You know, we need to incorporate this annually. So we 680 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,399 Speaker 1: have included that the last few years, and it is 681 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,479 Speaker 1: good to watch, hey, percentage of all the ant lost 682 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,319 Speaker 1: harvests that are fonds, you know versus yearlings and then 683 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: those hitting that older stage class. So if for nothing else, 684 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 1: it's it's pretty apparent in some stage, you know, the 685 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,320 Speaker 1: difference between percentages of those that are three and a 686 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: half and older versus percentages of bucks that make it 687 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 1: to the overage class. It's pretty eye opening for for 688 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,799 Speaker 1: some hunters and and even some some wilife agencies. Yeah, 689 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 1: I imagine. So going back to the buck side of 690 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 1: things on the age structure, Um, when we chatted two 691 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 1: years ago during our last podcast like this, I remember 692 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 1: that we talked about how the the number or the 693 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: percentage of bucks that are three and a half are older, 694 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 1: that number had I think was the highest that had 695 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 1: ever been and I think you had said something along 696 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 1: the lines of we expect that it will probably just 697 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 1: stay around here. We don't think it's gonna keep trending up. 698 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 1: This is probably like the natural UM, the natural point 699 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,279 Speaker 1: that it's going to fluctuate around, give or take. It 700 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: seems like that it's kind of been the case now. 701 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 1: It's kind of been around that, give or take one 702 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: third or so. UM. As you look at our our 703 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 1: breakout of age structure harvest across the nation, do you 704 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,840 Speaker 1: feel like we're kind of reaching the equilibrium across the 705 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 1: board or do you see any dramatic changes coming in 706 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 1: the future. I think that we have probably hit a 707 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 1: very good point from from a health standpoint, both from 708 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 1: a herd health and UH and hunter opportunities point UM. 709 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 1: What I do foreseeing the future is I am guessing 710 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,760 Speaker 1: you're gonna start seeing an increased number of yearling bucks 711 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 1: again and in a decreased number of older bucks UM 712 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,800 Speaker 1: directly as a result of the increased bread of c 713 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 1: w D. So I think that for a while we 714 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,880 Speaker 1: will see some change, not a huge change, but but 715 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 1: some And I think there's really two parts of that mark. 716 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 1: One is you have some states that once they find 717 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 1: out the f c w D, they are encouraging hunters 718 00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: to reverting to shooting yearling bucks UM, which has met 719 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,759 Speaker 1: with some disapproval from from some hunters. Um, not all 720 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: states are doing that, though my home state of Pennsylvania 721 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:11,319 Speaker 1: is Is is firmly supportive of maintaining the antler restrictions 722 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 1: and UH and keeping those in place and making sure 723 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 1: that they provide some additional harvest effort to the antalist side, 724 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 1: you know. So, So I don't think Pennsylvania's age structure 725 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: is going to change a lot anytime soon. But we 726 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,239 Speaker 1: have seen that in some states that the find c 727 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 1: w D and start encouraging hunters to shoot yelling bucks again. 728 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 1: So I think it will change a little because of that, 729 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,320 Speaker 1: and then long term, I think it will change. And 730 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,399 Speaker 1: we're starting to see this, uh in the endemic area 731 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,879 Speaker 1: of Wisconsin right now. Um, when c w D has 732 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,839 Speaker 1: been in an area for a long time and uh, 733 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,239 Speaker 1: you just start seeing that age structure there start to 734 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 1: decline because you're just not ending up with a lot 735 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 1: of bucks getting it into those real advanced age classes. 736 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,959 Speaker 1: So so I think that what we have right now 737 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: from a national harvest a structure for bucks is probably 738 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 1: as good as it's going to get. And we might 739 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 1: start seeing a slip here in a little bit in 740 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 1: the coming years. Yeah, I definitely want to dive into 741 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 1: excuse me, I want to dive into the questions around 742 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 1: managing in c w D areas and age structure and 743 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: should you be just killing every buck or should we 744 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: still be trying to manage for older age classes? Um. 745 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,839 Speaker 1: But I guess before I go down that wormhole, because 746 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,439 Speaker 1: imagine that will take us further and further down. UM, 747 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,320 Speaker 1: I want to stick just to the generic harvest questions. 748 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: One one more thing here, and that is around doe harvest. Um. 749 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,000 Speaker 1: Because you mentioned that buck harvest is up, but I 750 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,800 Speaker 1: saw that doe harvest is down, and it's down quite 751 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 1: significantly over the last ten years. What do you make 752 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,799 Speaker 1: of all that? How you're write it is down, it's 753 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: down close during the last ten years. And I think 754 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,759 Speaker 1: there's a couple of things for that one. Um. As 755 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,879 Speaker 1: the cd M movement really has been going to pass 756 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: two decades, you know, just like anything, a pendulum kind 757 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,000 Speaker 1: of swings both ways, and a while back we kind 758 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 1: of had the pendulum swinging all the way over to 759 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 1: really aggressive dough harvest, and right now I think it's 760 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:13,719 Speaker 1: just kind of swinging back the other way a little bit. 761 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,360 Speaker 1: Because there are a bunch of analyst harvest opportunities and 762 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,720 Speaker 1: numerous states the hunters just are not taking advantage of. 763 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,600 Speaker 1: Your home state of Michigan is a perfect example, you know, 764 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 1: in parts of southern Michigan, where the hunters routinely take 765 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 1: a lot more bucks than they do antlaist deer, even 766 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,759 Speaker 1: though the DNR is begging them to shoot more deer. 767 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:34,719 Speaker 1: So so I think there's a little bit of that 768 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 1: mark where you have some folks just unwilling uh to 769 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 1: to shoot enough ant li list deer um. And also 770 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,399 Speaker 1: there are places where we just simply can shoot doesn't 771 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: many analysts dear anymore? Um. During the last decade, you know, 772 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,279 Speaker 1: we had some really aggressive antalyist harvest where states were 773 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,880 Speaker 1: trying to balance deer herbs with a habitat, you know, 774 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 1: and and hunters responded to that challenge and did that. 775 00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:59,280 Speaker 1: So there are some agencies and now just provide fewer 776 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,359 Speaker 1: antalysts others opportunities because they don't need to shoot as 777 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,279 Speaker 1: many analysts here. So that's playing into it a little 778 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 1: bit as well as faon recruitment rates continue to decline 779 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:14,719 Speaker 1: and particularly throughout the Southeast, mostly from prenation concerns. So 780 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,759 Speaker 1: when you have you know, a much higher mortality rate 781 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,360 Speaker 1: on phones, and you're just not bringing as many phones 782 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 1: into those populations just simply can't withstand the same analyst 783 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 1: harvest as the past. So it's it's not a one 784 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: size fits all answer everywhere, but that there are I 785 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 1: think those are the three primary reasons that are causing 786 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 1: this big reduction and antalysts harvest, and you just kind 787 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 1: of have to look at whatever states specific situation they're 788 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 1: in to figure out, you know, which of those main 789 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,600 Speaker 1: three are most applicable. Yes, it seems like this is 790 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,800 Speaker 1: kind of to your to your point about the pendulum, 791 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 1: this is a little bit of us seeing the results 792 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,440 Speaker 1: of some of the changes coming from those years of 793 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: two thousand thirteen fourteen fifteen, where there was concerned about 794 00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 1: you know, populations and issues with disease and issues with 795 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 1: all these different worries we had at that point, and 796 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: into what you alluded to, A bunch of states did 797 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 1: change their regulations there that next year. I remember Ohio 798 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 1: cut back on dough tags a lot, a whole bunch 799 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,280 Speaker 1: of states cut back a little bit. So we're probably 800 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,080 Speaker 1: we're still seeing some of that today. But you mentioned 801 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 1: faun recruitment too, and I recall back in two thousand 802 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,200 Speaker 1: and seventeen, that was again one of the things we 803 00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:23,480 Speaker 1: talked about how we're seeing a little bit of a 804 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:27,239 Speaker 1: negative trend with faun recruitment. Um, can you for those 805 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,160 Speaker 1: who aren't familiar with what faun recruitment is, can you 806 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 1: just explain that once and then just elaborate a little 807 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,799 Speaker 1: bit more on what that trend is we're seeing, um, 808 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,320 Speaker 1: and and a little bit more about predation versus habitat 809 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 1: and how those things might impact it. Sure. The fawn 810 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:46,560 Speaker 1: recruitment rate is the number of fons that survives their 811 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,719 Speaker 1: first about six months of life and uh and are 812 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:54,279 Speaker 1: alive day one of your hunting season. So, and it's 813 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,640 Speaker 1: expressed as the number of fawns per adult dough in 814 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,279 Speaker 1: the population. So the obviously a lot more fonds that 815 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 1: hit the ground in the spring that die to predation, disease, cars, etcetera. 816 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,600 Speaker 1: So the fon recruitment rate is a measure of the 817 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:13,640 Speaker 1: number that are born but also then survive to be 818 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 1: eligible for harvest on day one of a hunting season. 819 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,239 Speaker 1: So it's essentially a measure of those that lived to 820 00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,160 Speaker 1: be about six months of age. And that is an 821 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,000 Speaker 1: important statistic because it's a it's a big measure of 822 00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 1: how productive that deer herd is. You know, how many 823 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:33,000 Speaker 1: phons are being recruited. Um, that's directly impacted by habitat 824 00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:38,520 Speaker 1: quality and predation rate, etcetera. So that as much as anything, 825 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,239 Speaker 1: gives you a good feel for how many analysts deer 826 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,000 Speaker 1: can we take from a population to keep it healthy 827 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,719 Speaker 1: and sustainable? Uh, you know, and it also means about, 828 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:48,160 Speaker 1: you know, how many bucks are we going to be 829 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,920 Speaker 1: recruiting into these deer herds because about every other phon 830 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 1: born as a butt fond so fon recruitment rate is 831 00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:57,280 Speaker 1: a very important measure for deer managers to to monitor, 832 00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,360 Speaker 1: and we do that in this report that just to 833 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,000 Speaker 1: keep track over time of how that changes on the 834 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,560 Speaker 1: state by state basis, because that gives you a lot 835 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 1: of information on numbers of antilists deer that you should 836 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,960 Speaker 1: be harvested annually. So, so would that being the case 837 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,720 Speaker 1: you mentioned that fawn recruitment rate has been dropping, especially 838 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,799 Speaker 1: in the southeast. I think I remember you saying, Um, 839 00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,920 Speaker 1: how dramatic has this been? And is it to a 840 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:27,799 Speaker 1: point of alarm? Is it something to be expected? Um? 841 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,479 Speaker 1: What do we make of that. Well, over the last 842 00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 1: few years, it does seem to have bottomed out, so 843 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 1: we've kind of hit I think, as low as we're 844 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,440 Speaker 1: going to go, which which is a good sign. But 845 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,600 Speaker 1: to give you an idea, we've been monitoring this since 846 00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:45,080 Speaker 1: two thousand. Uh and in two thousand, across the US, 847 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:49,840 Speaker 1: the average of fawn recruitment rate was point eight one 848 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,560 Speaker 1: falls per doe, so you know, for every adult go 849 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,960 Speaker 1: out there, they recruited point eight falls into the deer. Now, 850 00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,080 Speaker 1: the first thing listeners who aren't familiars will say, it's 851 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,120 Speaker 1: wait a minute. You know those have twins, and that 852 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,200 Speaker 1: is true, but you know, less than half of those 853 00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:09,160 Speaker 1: twins survived to be six months of age, so point 854 00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,600 Speaker 1: eight one falls per dough back in two thousand. Today 855 00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:16,680 Speaker 1: that has dropped to point six five fons per dough, 856 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,480 Speaker 1: so esventially what that means is, you know today it 857 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 1: takes three dos to to recruit two fonds, so that 858 00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:28,440 Speaker 1: is very different from the past. And uh. In fact, 859 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,160 Speaker 1: this past year there's only two states in the entire 860 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:35,839 Speaker 1: country that recruit at least one faon per bell. Uh 861 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:39,880 Speaker 1: that those being Illinois and Kentucky. To a very productive 862 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:43,480 Speaker 1: states obviously, so the farm recruipver rates are always lower 863 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,439 Speaker 1: than many people think, but they have they have changed 864 00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,799 Speaker 1: dramatically since two thousand and but it does appear over 865 00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,279 Speaker 1: the last few years they have kind of plateaued, which 866 00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,000 Speaker 1: hopefully means they're not going to go any lower and 867 00:44:55,360 --> 00:45:00,279 Speaker 1: we can start managing more effectively at those levels. So 868 00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,319 Speaker 1: is there uh? I imagine it's probably a combination of 869 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,600 Speaker 1: all the above. But from your perspective, what would you 870 00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,640 Speaker 1: would you point to any one thing that you already 871 00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,360 Speaker 1: mentioned that being predation or would you say it's something 872 00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,960 Speaker 1: like predation and habitat and any other factors that have 873 00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,960 Speaker 1: led to this decline since two thousand and and then 874 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:24,040 Speaker 1: the fall up to that question would be, then what's 875 00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,840 Speaker 1: our response moving forward? Is there? What would you recommend 876 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,080 Speaker 1: we as managers be thinking about to try to move 877 00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:32,239 Speaker 1: that number back up in the right direction. Um. I 878 00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:36,160 Speaker 1: think the biggest reasons for this are predation as one 879 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:41,280 Speaker 1: of them. Habitat is a big one. Um over throughout 880 00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:45,440 Speaker 1: the Midwest, much of that particularly agricultural Midwest, you know, 881 00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:49,360 Speaker 1: the most limiting habitat component already is covered for deer 882 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,080 Speaker 1: and with loss of CRP during the big corn years. 883 00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:55,440 Speaker 1: You know, we lost a quarter of all of the 884 00:45:55,520 --> 00:46:00,360 Speaker 1: land that was enrolled in CRP programs UM through you know, 885 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,839 Speaker 1: that's the most successful habitat program from through the federal 886 00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,120 Speaker 1: gund we've ever had. And there was millions and millions 887 00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,960 Speaker 1: of acres lost front of our great cover that we're 888 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,960 Speaker 1: put back into road crop productions. So that's a huge 889 00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,120 Speaker 1: loss for you know, for those deer and uh that 890 00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,080 Speaker 1: was kind of through the Midwest and much of the 891 00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:22,280 Speaker 1: forested parts of the country. We have forces that are maturing, 892 00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,920 Speaker 1: so a mature fourth don't provide anywhere near the fawning 893 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,200 Speaker 1: cover that young force do. So so that's the habitat 894 00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:33,560 Speaker 1: component kind of outside the Midwest. So yeah, increased predation, UM, 895 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,759 Speaker 1: loss of habitat, and I think in some places um 896 00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,600 Speaker 1: uh nutrition was playing a factor. You know, we have 897 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,880 Speaker 1: rising deer herbs again in many areas, and if as 898 00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:44,960 Speaker 1: soon as you end up with the more deer than 899 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,520 Speaker 1: you really should have in a certain area, um, first 900 00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,040 Speaker 1: thing that gets impacted as their health and then fawning. 901 00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:52,840 Speaker 1: So UM, I think those are the big three measures 902 00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,600 Speaker 1: with with predation and habitat lost by far being the 903 00:46:55,600 --> 00:47:01,160 Speaker 1: biggest two. Yeah, you referenced the CRP issues over the 904 00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:06,319 Speaker 1: past few years, how they've they've been reducing the maximum 905 00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:09,600 Speaker 1: number of acres eligible to be part of the conservation 906 00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:14,600 Speaker 1: reserve program and a new farm bill just got approved recently. Um, kid, 907 00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,080 Speaker 1: are you familiar with the details of that new bill 908 00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,799 Speaker 1: and and are you aware of how that looks as 909 00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,080 Speaker 1: far as conservation measures for deer and deer hunters? Is 910 00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:23,840 Speaker 1: it is? It looks like a good farm bill for 911 00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,080 Speaker 1: for what we're up to. Um, what are your thoughts 912 00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:29,160 Speaker 1: on that. I am not familiar mark with all of 913 00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:31,239 Speaker 1: the ins and outs of that then Uh, Um, I 914 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,680 Speaker 1: need to become familiar with it. I just haven't since 915 00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,000 Speaker 1: that thing finally got signed. Yeah, it was. It was 916 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,160 Speaker 1: a lengthy process from what I want I understand. I 917 00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,320 Speaker 1: haven't got to dive into it too much myself, either, 918 00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:45,920 Speaker 1: But I did see um that the max limit for 919 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,360 Speaker 1: CRP was raised a little bit over what it was 920 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,200 Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, UM, but not very significantly. 921 00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:54,880 Speaker 1: So I have heard that some folks in the conservation 922 00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,920 Speaker 1: in the wildlife space, we're a little disappointed with that. Um. 923 00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,200 Speaker 1: But that's as That's as far as I went on 924 00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,080 Speaker 1: that front. But I'll be interested to see. I definitely 925 00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:04,720 Speaker 1: think to your point, it's been such a successful program, 926 00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,120 Speaker 1: so helpful to wildlife out there. Um, we need that, 927 00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:12,400 Speaker 1: we need that crap. Um. You mentioned maturing forests. Something 928 00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,680 Speaker 1: in the White Tail Report, UM that I found interesting 929 00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,839 Speaker 1: was what you guys are calling the Young Force initiative, 930 00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,400 Speaker 1: which seems to be an effort to try to um 931 00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,000 Speaker 1: address what you talked about with it, with the challenges 932 00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:26,680 Speaker 1: of maturing force. Is that something you can speak to 933 00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:28,840 Speaker 1: a little bit and and what's going on there and 934 00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:32,680 Speaker 1: why that's a concern for for deer and dear owners. Absolutely, 935 00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:36,120 Speaker 1: we are huge supporters of the jung Force initiative, and 936 00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:40,080 Speaker 1: we're fortunate enough to have an employee based out of 937 00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:44,200 Speaker 1: New York who works specifically with landowners to help encourage 938 00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:48,200 Speaker 1: them and then help them get more young forest on 939 00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:51,240 Speaker 1: their properties. And essentially, we know from from a deer 940 00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:55,400 Speaker 1: habitat perspective that mature forest provide very little food and 941 00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:58,480 Speaker 1: cover for deer. Somewhere between fifty and a hundred pounds 942 00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:02,200 Speaker 1: of browse barakers, that's it. And uh, young forests can 943 00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:06,120 Speaker 1: provide upwards of seven hundred and fifty two thousand pounds 944 00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,600 Speaker 1: of food Baraker, and they provide tremendous cover, you know, 945 00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,920 Speaker 1: the cover that farms need to survive, cover that adults 946 00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:17,400 Speaker 1: need UH to feel secure on properties. So young forest 947 00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,920 Speaker 1: and that's essentially you know, forested area that is anywhere 948 00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:24,799 Speaker 1: from zero to about ten years of age. So think 949 00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,759 Speaker 1: of you know, those thick areas that we're just you know, 950 00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,279 Speaker 1: you can't see film, it's hard to walk film. You know, 951 00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:33,759 Speaker 1: those places are perfect for deer from a food and 952 00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:37,360 Speaker 1: cover perspective. But unfortunately, you know, many of the forests 953 00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:39,799 Speaker 1: in the United States, as they mature, you know, they 954 00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:43,560 Speaker 1: just have become far less valuable for deer. So this 955 00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:48,720 Speaker 1: initiative helps provide information for landowners of the benefits of 956 00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:52,600 Speaker 1: having young forests on their property for not just deer, 957 00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:54,880 Speaker 1: but there's a whole suite of wall like species that 958 00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:58,719 Speaker 1: really benefit from that component of the habitat component. So 959 00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:02,399 Speaker 1: our guy works every day with folks, shows them what 960 00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:04,680 Speaker 1: they can do to get that, how that will benefit them, 961 00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,560 Speaker 1: how help them meet their personal goals on their property, 962 00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:09,840 Speaker 1: and then UH helps walk them through the process to 963 00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:13,360 Speaker 1: actually make that happen. And this is a really really 964 00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,359 Speaker 1: good program for deer and a whole host of other 965 00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,279 Speaker 1: wildlife species. Yeah, I thought that was really interesting and 966 00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,480 Speaker 1: it's funny. I you know, came from a family who 967 00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,839 Speaker 1: kind of was of the old guard when it came 968 00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:26,640 Speaker 1: to trees. You know, I always thought you had a 969 00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:28,839 Speaker 1: plant trees, you don't want to cut down trees. So 970 00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:31,200 Speaker 1: my my grandpa was always planting trees and all of 971 00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:33,160 Speaker 1: our old fields on our on our deer farm, our 972 00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:36,359 Speaker 1: dear property of north And it was sacrilege to cut 973 00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:38,640 Speaker 1: down a tree that was living, because that just seemed 974 00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:40,160 Speaker 1: like not the right thing to do, right. You want 975 00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:45,480 Speaker 1: to help grow things, um, not kill unnecessarily. And you know, 976 00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:47,520 Speaker 1: he we had no idea back at the time that 977 00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:51,160 Speaker 1: oftentimes setting things back is actually the very best thing 978 00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:52,840 Speaker 1: you can do for wildlife. But I think there are 979 00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,440 Speaker 1: a lot of well meaning people out there who care 980 00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:59,359 Speaker 1: about conservation, care about wildlife and wild places, and they 981 00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,399 Speaker 1: see a tim or harvest or something they think that's 982 00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:04,200 Speaker 1: a bad thing. And there I think I think it's 983 00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:06,839 Speaker 1: fair say in some cases maybe certain ways that can 984 00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:08,640 Speaker 1: be done isn't as as good as possible, but there 985 00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:12,560 Speaker 1: certainly are very uh, there are plenty of positive things 986 00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:16,160 Speaker 1: that timber harvests done in a sustainable way can do. Um, 987 00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,200 Speaker 1: just a lot of a lot of folks maybe don't 988 00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,080 Speaker 1: realize that. So there's a little bit of a pr problem, 989 00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:24,160 Speaker 1: I think, don't you think absolutely no, there definitely definitely is. 990 00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,080 Speaker 1: And I grew up in very much the same way 991 00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:30,040 Speaker 1: as you described, with you know, protecting trees and not cutting, 992 00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:33,080 Speaker 1: and so we kind of loved our wild life to death, 993 00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:36,000 Speaker 1: I guess from that perspective, and the mature trees are 994 00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:39,080 Speaker 1: certainly needed and particularly feel like where you do, or 995 00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:41,160 Speaker 1: even farther north where I do. You know, we need 996 00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:43,759 Speaker 1: some of that cover for for winter, covering that. But 997 00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:46,280 Speaker 1: you know there's a lot of tree, a lot of deer, 998 00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:48,800 Speaker 1: you know, they live their entire life, you know, and 999 00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:51,440 Speaker 1: never see a mature tree. You know, think of South 1000 00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,239 Speaker 1: Texas and you know Western Kansas, places that donors would 1001 00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,520 Speaker 1: love to go. You know, there's no huge trees there. 1002 00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:00,279 Speaker 1: So there don't need them nearly as much as as 1003 00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:03,160 Speaker 1: we think they do. Yeah, they certainly, they certainly appreciate 1004 00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:07,719 Speaker 1: diversity and habitat and edge and openings, um, all those 1005 00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:11,000 Speaker 1: things that are so crucial for We're not like you said, 1006 00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:13,080 Speaker 1: deer can survive in a whole lot of different situations, 1007 00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,040 Speaker 1: but they certainly do better with some things present. And 1008 00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:18,160 Speaker 1: um I was I was reading a recent issue of 1009 00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:21,440 Speaker 1: Quality White Tails, and there was an article talking about 1010 00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,560 Speaker 1: this on public lands and how many many of our 1011 00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:28,480 Speaker 1: national forests, especially in the southeast and northeast of the country, 1012 00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:32,080 Speaker 1: are reaching a high level maturity and and then just 1013 00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:36,240 Speaker 1: there's there's very little active management happening. You get out west, 1014 00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:38,720 Speaker 1: there's there's a little more management going on. There's certainly 1015 00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:42,160 Speaker 1: a lot of fire out there that is naturally setting 1016 00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:44,960 Speaker 1: things back and opening things up on the understory and 1017 00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:48,719 Speaker 1: revitalizing um kind of the the younger growth. But that's 1018 00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:51,440 Speaker 1: not happening on the eastern side of the country. So 1019 00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:53,640 Speaker 1: we're getting many of these same issues that you just 1020 00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:55,719 Speaker 1: talked about, not just on private lands, but also on 1021 00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:59,480 Speaker 1: public lands, these very large pieces of public land, and 1022 00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:02,160 Speaker 1: the whole pr issue. I just brought up the fact 1023 00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:04,120 Speaker 1: that a lot of people that are probably well meaning, 1024 00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:06,319 Speaker 1: they don't want timber harvest because they think that's going 1025 00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:09,759 Speaker 1: to be bad for wildlife, um or for you know, 1026 00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,959 Speaker 1: the natural landscape. But many cases right there actually loving 1027 00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:15,719 Speaker 1: it to death by not allowing active management. And in 1028 00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,399 Speaker 1: this article, um I thought the author did a nice 1029 00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:21,160 Speaker 1: job of talking about the fact that this is an 1030 00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:24,719 Speaker 1: opportunity where we can actually help as deer hunters and 1031 00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:27,400 Speaker 1: deer managers. We can actually help with a public resource 1032 00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:31,279 Speaker 1: by getting involved in meetings and making our voices heard 1033 00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:33,520 Speaker 1: and start spreading the good word about Hey, like, there 1034 00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:35,520 Speaker 1: are some positive things that can be achieved with some 1035 00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:38,680 Speaker 1: active management in these places that can help benefit all 1036 00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:41,840 Speaker 1: of us, whether you hunt or hike or whatever. Um 1037 00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,880 Speaker 1: are you familiar with with what Bruce was writing about 1038 00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:49,120 Speaker 1: in that National Forest article, Kip, Are you talking about 1039 00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:52,040 Speaker 1: Bruce Ingram? Yes? Yes, Yeah, I thought that he did 1040 00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:54,560 Speaker 1: a very good job of that, a very good job. Yeah. 1041 00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:56,480 Speaker 1: I think that just as a great reminder for any 1042 00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,080 Speaker 1: of us, even if you don't own land, UM, you 1043 00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,720 Speaker 1: certainly can find in a way to make a positive 1044 00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:04,600 Speaker 1: difference by just getting your voice out there locally. There's 1045 00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:07,320 Speaker 1: lots of different meetings going on around public management of 1046 00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:09,880 Speaker 1: some of these national forests and larger, larger public places, 1047 00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:13,279 Speaker 1: and that's a great chance to get involved and um 1048 00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:15,520 Speaker 1: share share this kind of information because a lot of 1049 00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:19,040 Speaker 1: people don't realize it. UM. So I thought that was 1050 00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:21,759 Speaker 1: that was worth noting. Yeah, I thought he did a 1051 00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,319 Speaker 1: good job in along those lines. That's why I'm so 1052 00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:26,920 Speaker 1: proud of one of our new five year goals at 1053 00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,200 Speaker 1: Q and May you knows to double the number of 1054 00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:33,200 Speaker 1: habitat projects that are volunteers do on public lands. And 1055 00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:35,359 Speaker 1: we have so many branches that like to do that. 1056 00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:37,560 Speaker 1: And you know, as an organization, we don't have the 1057 00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,600 Speaker 1: ability to purchase a bunch of lands to then open 1058 00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:42,759 Speaker 1: them up to hunting, but that doesn't mean we can't 1059 00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,919 Speaker 1: help public lands. And so that's the niche that we've taken. Hey, 1060 00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:47,799 Speaker 1: you know what, we may not be able to buy them, 1061 00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:50,000 Speaker 1: but we absolutely can help make what we have now 1062 00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:53,759 Speaker 1: better for folks, and uh so, particularly the North. More 1063 00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:57,080 Speaker 1: of our northern branches get involved with the habitat enhancement 1064 00:54:57,080 --> 00:54:59,360 Speaker 1: of public lands, and our southern branches to this point, 1065 00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:01,600 Speaker 1: but we look forward to having a lot more of 1066 00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:03,480 Speaker 1: our folks are doing that. And man, I think that 1067 00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:07,480 Speaker 1: is great for everybody all the way around. Agree. I 1068 00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:09,400 Speaker 1: think that's so great that I've been seeing some of 1069 00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:11,800 Speaker 1: that happened here in Michigan, and um, I'd like to 1070 00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:13,879 Speaker 1: personally get involved with some more of it because I think, 1071 00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,120 Speaker 1: you know, I know that you guys, a QT May, 1072 00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:20,120 Speaker 1: you're working hard to make sure that deer hunters out 1073 00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:22,200 Speaker 1: there know that you guys are representing not just people 1074 00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:24,279 Speaker 1: that manage deer on their own land, but but all 1075 00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:26,960 Speaker 1: deer hunters. And I think this is a really great way, 1076 00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:29,920 Speaker 1: um that you know, members of this organization are stepping 1077 00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,640 Speaker 1: up and doing that very thing, you know, helping improve 1078 00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:34,600 Speaker 1: the quality of hunting, whether you own land or not, 1079 00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:37,239 Speaker 1: and helping our entire herd, whether it's on private land 1080 00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:40,120 Speaker 1: or public land. Um. I think that's that's really walking 1081 00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:41,680 Speaker 1: the walk. And I was I was glad to see 1082 00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:45,840 Speaker 1: that happening. All right, let's take one last quick break 1083 00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:48,799 Speaker 1: to think our partners at Onyx. And Onyx is the 1084 00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,960 Speaker 1: producer of the Onyx Hunt app, which is just about 1085 00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:56,080 Speaker 1: the most handy and useful mobile application I know as 1086 00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:59,280 Speaker 1: a deer hunter, constantly using this thing that provides aerial 1087 00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:03,000 Speaker 1: view maps, topographic maps. It shows you property lines, public 1088 00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:06,160 Speaker 1: land borders, you can mark waypoints, you can share way points, 1089 00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,279 Speaker 1: you can see weather data. It's uh, it's it's kind 1090 00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:12,239 Speaker 1: of always in my rotation of tools. I'm using an 1091 00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:14,480 Speaker 1: actually an interesting use case of it that I just 1092 00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,480 Speaker 1: was working with yesterday I think it was driving down 1093 00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:21,000 Speaker 1: the road head to the grocery store and I see 1094 00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:23,840 Speaker 1: a field just full of deer, I mean thirty forty 1095 00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:26,400 Speaker 1: deer all feeding out there on some corn stubble, and 1096 00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:28,520 Speaker 1: I'm thinking to myself, man, I'd love to shed hunt 1097 00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:31,560 Speaker 1: that adjacent timberlot. What do I do in that case? 1098 00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:33,960 Speaker 1: I just pulled out my Onyx hunt app on my phone. 1099 00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:37,040 Speaker 1: I look to see who the landowners were, and I'm like, okay, 1100 00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:39,799 Speaker 1: I can go see where that person lives. Go walk 1101 00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:41,600 Speaker 1: up to the door, knock on it, try to get 1102 00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:43,759 Speaker 1: shed hunting permission. So I haven't done that yet, but 1103 00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:45,799 Speaker 1: I do know who I need to talk to, and 1104 00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:48,520 Speaker 1: that is one of my favorite things to do with Onyx. 1105 00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:50,280 Speaker 1: So if you would like to learn more about Onyx 1106 00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:52,160 Speaker 1: or try it out your own, you can go to 1107 00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:54,880 Speaker 1: your mobile app store of choice and download it, or 1108 00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:59,520 Speaker 1: head over to onyx maps dot com. I want to 1109 00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:02,839 Speaker 1: ask about something we brought up a little bit ago, though, Kip. 1110 00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:05,040 Speaker 1: I want to rewind the tape just a little bit 1111 00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:08,080 Speaker 1: and get back to c w D because I feel 1112 00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:10,160 Speaker 1: like if if I were taking the temperature of the 1113 00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:12,719 Speaker 1: white tail hunting community and asking them, you know, what 1114 00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:14,919 Speaker 1: do you think the state is of of white tail 1115 00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:18,720 Speaker 1: these days, whether it be the quality of hunting or 1116 00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:20,880 Speaker 1: or just what's kind of bubbling into the surface as 1117 00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:24,360 Speaker 1: far as tensions or questions or debates. And it's been 1118 00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:27,240 Speaker 1: around for quite a while now that the talk around 1119 00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,120 Speaker 1: c w D, but I do feel like more recently 1120 00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:33,040 Speaker 1: there's been there's been a little bit more of a 1121 00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:38,960 Speaker 1: vocal pushback on c w D management, on c w 1122 00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:42,800 Speaker 1: D as an issue at all, um some some kind 1123 00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:49,919 Speaker 1: of somewhat prominent voices dissenting on the public the most 1124 00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:52,640 Speaker 1: common opinions on it. So I guess that's a long 1125 00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:55,720 Speaker 1: winded way of me saying, Kip, where do you feel 1126 00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:57,800 Speaker 1: we stand right now with c w D as far 1127 00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:01,040 Speaker 1: as the threat it poses, as far as our reaction 1128 00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:04,000 Speaker 1: to it, And what are your thoughts on some of 1129 00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:06,840 Speaker 1: the I don't know if you want to call them 1130 00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:09,840 Speaker 1: deniers or the naysayers on how we're trying to manage 1131 00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:11,520 Speaker 1: c to B Where where are you at on all 1132 00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:13,280 Speaker 1: this and where do you feel like when we look 1133 00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:14,640 Speaker 1: at the state of things, which do we stand as 1134 00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:19,440 Speaker 1: a whole? H I've either been conducting research on deer 1135 00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:22,960 Speaker 1: or managing deer hunters for for over twenty five years now, 1136 00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,400 Speaker 1: and c w D is by far the single biggest 1137 00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:30,520 Speaker 1: issue that has arisen during my career and I'm guessing 1138 00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:34,160 Speaker 1: will be for for the remainder of my career. C 1139 00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:37,440 Speaker 1: w D is is very important. UM. I think that 1140 00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:40,400 Speaker 1: is a huge issue. But I also think that's one 1141 00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:44,160 Speaker 1: of the most complex and most misunderstood issues UM, partly 1142 00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:47,920 Speaker 1: because of the way that it attacks a deerheart. UM. 1143 00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:51,200 Speaker 1: If you take a look at the wildlife experts today, 1144 00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,520 Speaker 1: who are who are researching this and who are are 1145 00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:57,120 Speaker 1: studying this UM, there's a lot we don't know about 1146 00:58:57,120 --> 00:58:59,680 Speaker 1: the disease. UM. You know, when we've put millions of 1147 00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:02,360 Speaker 1: ours and then a lot of time into it. Uh, 1148 00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:04,400 Speaker 1: there is a lot we do know, but there's still 1149 00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:07,120 Speaker 1: a lot we don't know. And because of that, that 1150 00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:10,680 Speaker 1: creates room for a lot of people to argue or 1151 00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:16,680 Speaker 1: you know, dismiss a management technique strategy that somebody else 1152 00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:20,320 Speaker 1: has suggested. So there's there's no doubt that we have 1153 00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:23,040 Speaker 1: a lot yet to learn. However, if you take a 1154 00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:25,920 Speaker 1: look at the vast majority of the people who are 1155 00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:31,160 Speaker 1: really studying this UM, the by far most of them 1156 00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:34,760 Speaker 1: side on this side that hey, you know, this is 1157 00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:38,440 Speaker 1: a really big issue and something that has warmed and uh, 1158 00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:41,720 Speaker 1: the attention that it's getting. Um, there are certainly some 1159 00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:44,280 Speaker 1: who don't believe that, some wildlife experts that that are 1160 00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:46,960 Speaker 1: on the other side of the issue. Um. If you 1161 00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:49,240 Speaker 1: take a look though, that the number of folks on 1162 00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:51,640 Speaker 1: who don't think this is a big deal and that 1163 00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:55,080 Speaker 1: this is all blown smoke, the number is is very 1164 00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:58,240 Speaker 1: small and uh. And I think one big difference between 1165 00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:00,840 Speaker 1: the two sides is the side that tends to say 1166 01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:03,000 Speaker 1: that this is not a big deal and hunters don't 1167 01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:06,080 Speaker 1: need to be concerned. Um. Almost all the folks on 1168 01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:09,640 Speaker 1: that side worked primarily with captive deer hurts. Um, and 1169 01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:12,680 Speaker 1: this is nothing negative at all to captive deer or 1170 01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:15,480 Speaker 1: deer farmers. That's not what I mean. I share that 1171 01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:19,400 Speaker 1: to say, the vast majority of deer researchers and managers 1172 01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:21,840 Speaker 1: who work with wild deer with free range and deer 1173 01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:24,640 Speaker 1: think that this is a really big issue. And I 1174 01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:26,840 Speaker 1: think it's important for the hunter to understand that when 1175 01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:29,400 Speaker 1: when they hear, you know, all this is an issue 1176 01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:31,080 Speaker 1: or this is not, I think they really need to 1177 01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:33,320 Speaker 1: take a look at who's saying that you know, and 1178 01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:36,520 Speaker 1: what what side of the fence are they coming from? 1179 01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:39,400 Speaker 1: And uh, So I think there are certainly some things 1180 01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:41,640 Speaker 1: that we know with regard to c w D that 1181 01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:45,080 Speaker 1: can help. From the captive side. For instance, you know, 1182 01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:47,080 Speaker 1: there's the one genotype of deer that appears to be 1183 01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:50,200 Speaker 1: a little more resistant to the disease and uh and 1184 01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:52,840 Speaker 1: captive folks are you know, are breeding that to help them, 1185 01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:54,960 Speaker 1: And I think that's great, uh for us. On the 1186 01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:57,320 Speaker 1: free ranging side, that doesn't really help us though, because 1187 01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:00,560 Speaker 1: that genotype does exist in the wild, but it doesn't 1188 01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:03,360 Speaker 1: do very well with mother nature. She reads them out quickly, 1189 01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:05,920 Speaker 1: so you know, unless you can take care of that 1190 01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:08,080 Speaker 1: animal and then from an animal husbandry and like you 1191 01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:11,480 Speaker 1: can inside offense, it doesn't really help us. So I 1192 01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:14,240 Speaker 1: think it's very important for hunters to just realize, you know, 1193 01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:17,280 Speaker 1: who is given them information, you know, and what what 1194 01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:20,280 Speaker 1: animals are manage it. So we've fall on the side 1195 01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:22,840 Speaker 1: of we're taking care of free ranging deer and this 1196 01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:25,160 Speaker 1: is a really big issue for them, but by far 1197 01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:27,640 Speaker 1: the biggest issue of my time and then probably yours 1198 01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:33,720 Speaker 1: as well. So I think that states have tried a 1199 01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:37,160 Speaker 1: few different things. M I'm very encouraged to see states 1200 01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:40,440 Speaker 1: like Pennsylvania now actually trying something different, you know, an 1201 01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:43,760 Speaker 1: alternative management strategy, which I think is very good because 1202 01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:45,760 Speaker 1: we don't have a lot of success stories what we've 1203 01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:48,720 Speaker 1: done so far. However, what we do know is that 1204 01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:52,440 Speaker 1: if we don't uh find a success story or change 1205 01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:54,760 Speaker 1: what is going on, you know, the future of deer 1206 01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:58,080 Speaker 1: hunting is not good for any of us. And we 1207 01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:00,080 Speaker 1: have so many hunters that say, well, I'm not in 1208 01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:02,320 Speaker 1: all these dead deer. You know, it's just really a 1209 01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:05,120 Speaker 1: big deal. It really is, because even though we don't 1210 01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:08,160 Speaker 1: find a lot of dead deer from it, the research 1211 01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:11,080 Speaker 1: shows that do with c w D die at three 1212 01:02:11,120 --> 01:02:13,680 Speaker 1: times the rate that those that don't. They just end 1213 01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:16,080 Speaker 1: up dying to predators or guns or cars or something 1214 01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:19,040 Speaker 1: else first. So we don't see that oh yeah, this 1215 01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:21,920 Speaker 1: was impacted by c w D. So since hunters don't 1216 01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:23,280 Speaker 1: see it and they think it's not a big deal. 1217 01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:26,000 Speaker 1: But but that's not true, that's not true at all. 1218 01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:29,440 Speaker 1: So ut I think it's a huge deal. Um. I 1219 01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:31,360 Speaker 1: think that it warrants the attention that we give it. 1220 01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:35,000 Speaker 1: And man, I really wish that from the wildlife community side, 1221 01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:36,520 Speaker 1: you know, we could be a little more on the 1222 01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:40,040 Speaker 1: same page with what we are actually saying or what 1223 01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:43,480 Speaker 1: information we're sharing, because it doesn't do any of us 1224 01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:48,040 Speaker 1: any good to spread, you know, inaccuracies like we don't 1225 01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:49,640 Speaker 1: know if it's a disease or it's just a condition. 1226 01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:51,560 Speaker 1: That that's not true at all. We know absolutely it's 1227 01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:53,840 Speaker 1: a disease, but hunters are kind of scared of it. 1228 01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:56,160 Speaker 1: So if they hear somebody say what they want to hear, boy, 1229 01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:59,080 Speaker 1: they really gravitate to that and then hope the problem 1230 01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:01,400 Speaker 1: is going to go away. But that's not the case 1231 01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:02,840 Speaker 1: of this, and Mark, this is not going to go 1232 01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:05,880 Speaker 1: away with us without us alt. Are there any other 1233 01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:10,240 Speaker 1: common inaccuracies that you hear getting put out there today 1234 01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:12,320 Speaker 1: that every time you hear it makes you cringe? Like, 1235 01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:15,400 Speaker 1: are there any other like very popular inaccuracies that you 1236 01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:18,640 Speaker 1: want to correct? Your real quick the big ones you know, 1237 01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:20,680 Speaker 1: I often hear as well. We don't find dead deer 1238 01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:23,640 Speaker 1: all over the place. So these deer, even if they 1239 01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:26,120 Speaker 1: have c w D, you know, they're still reproducing. So 1240 01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:31,480 Speaker 1: we're okay, Um, that's that's not true because since they 1241 01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:34,480 Speaker 1: die at three times the rate of other deer, you know, 1242 01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:36,640 Speaker 1: at some point, when you get enough of that deerhood 1243 01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:39,280 Speaker 1: that is CWD positive, they are going to be dying, 1244 01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:41,880 Speaker 1: you know, quicker than they can reproduce themselves. So our 1245 01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:45,360 Speaker 1: deer herbs start dropping and dropping. And you take any 1246 01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:47,360 Speaker 1: deer head right now, all of a sudden, you add 1247 01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:50,040 Speaker 1: you know, a twenty or thirty percent mortality rate on 1248 01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:53,120 Speaker 1: top of that. That is very quickly you can realize, wow, 1249 01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:54,840 Speaker 1: I'm going to have a lot less deer to shoot 1250 01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:57,800 Speaker 1: in the future. I'm gonna see a lot fewer deer um. 1251 01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:00,480 Speaker 1: So that that is a big one part. Because a 1252 01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:03,560 Speaker 1: c w D insultrates a deer herd. You know, we 1253 01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:06,760 Speaker 1: don't really notice any difference until it gets to the 1254 01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:10,240 Speaker 1: point where it has affected a large portion of it, 1255 01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:13,840 Speaker 1: and then we are going to see dramatic population to clients. 1256 01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:16,360 Speaker 1: If the thing is though, once it gets to that point, 1257 01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:18,560 Speaker 1: you know, we have no way of stopping it. So 1258 01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:20,840 Speaker 1: we need to stop it right now, or at least 1259 01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:24,040 Speaker 1: slow the spread. While there's only you know, one or 1260 01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:26,560 Speaker 1: two or maybe even five percent of a deer herd 1261 01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:29,640 Speaker 1: is uh impacted. You know, once we get to what 1262 01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:34,920 Speaker 1: we're seeing in Wisconsin, now, you know we're or CWD positive. 1263 01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:37,720 Speaker 1: You know, we're gonna start seeing major changes in that 1264 01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:41,240 Speaker 1: Wisconsin deer heard in the near future, and unfortunately we 1265 01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:43,720 Speaker 1: can't stop it. So we need all these other states 1266 01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:46,720 Speaker 1: need to stop in their place before they get to 1267 01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:50,120 Speaker 1: what was consint is about to experience. Yeah. So so 1268 01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:52,880 Speaker 1: that brings us to the next big point of contention 1269 01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:55,960 Speaker 1: for a lot of people, which are the management strategies 1270 01:04:55,960 --> 01:04:58,480 Speaker 1: in places where they do find CWD. So a lot 1271 01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:01,400 Speaker 1: of people point to, you know, one of the commonly 1272 01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:03,720 Speaker 1: held grapes is that while we found out we had 1273 01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:06,920 Speaker 1: c w D, and then you know, then the agencies 1274 01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:08,440 Speaker 1: just kill all the deer or they come and they 1275 01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:10,960 Speaker 1: wipe out the deer herds. They kill way more deer 1276 01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:13,120 Speaker 1: than the disease does. Um, so there's a lot of 1277 01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:19,080 Speaker 1: concern around that. Um, where do you feel like things? 1278 01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:21,120 Speaker 1: I know you mentioned that we haven't really found a 1279 01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:25,120 Speaker 1: great successful example yet of the right management or reactive 1280 01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:28,040 Speaker 1: strategy is to c w D. But the Pennsylvania is 1281 01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:32,280 Speaker 1: trying something different. Um, can you speak to what Pennsylvania's 1282 01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:35,960 Speaker 1: trying and or where you and qtm A see the 1283 01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:39,080 Speaker 1: best opportunities lying as far as the next thing to 1284 01:05:39,160 --> 01:05:43,440 Speaker 1: try sure. I think that that there has never been 1285 01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:47,320 Speaker 1: an issue that's going to require more cooperation and partnership 1286 01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:50,600 Speaker 1: between the state wilife agencies and hunters than this. Never 1287 01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:54,120 Speaker 1: before we needed to work more closely together. So we 1288 01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:57,560 Speaker 1: encourage agencies to reach out and partner with hunters and 1289 01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:02,640 Speaker 1: unprecedented levels share information, um, you know, do everything possible 1290 01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:06,960 Speaker 1: to provide multiple, multiple opportunities for the information why this 1291 01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:10,000 Speaker 1: is important, how this can help? So I think that 1292 01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:12,680 Speaker 1: is what has to happen. And from the hunters, they 1293 01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:14,800 Speaker 1: need to engage the agency, you know, and ask questions, 1294 01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:16,920 Speaker 1: ask how they can help, you know, how they can 1295 01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:19,880 Speaker 1: be a part of the solution for this. So a 1296 01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:22,520 Speaker 1: good example about it right now, what's going on in Pennsylvania, 1297 01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:26,040 Speaker 1: And this certainly is not without convention. Here there's a 1298 01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:28,880 Speaker 1: lot of hunters very upset. But in one of our 1299 01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:33,240 Speaker 1: disease management areas of two counties of Bedford and Blair Counties, 1300 01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:36,360 Speaker 1: the Game Commission has been monitoring the prevalence rate to 1301 01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:38,720 Speaker 1: c w D since two thousand and twelve when I 1302 01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:41,480 Speaker 1: was first identified there. And essentially what's happened has that's 1303 01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:43,080 Speaker 1: gone from you know, less than one percent of the 1304 01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:45,800 Speaker 1: deer habit and it's climbed right up now to about 1305 01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:48,120 Speaker 1: five percent of the deer habit and if you take 1306 01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:50,600 Speaker 1: a look at that, it's following the same c w 1307 01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:54,640 Speaker 1: D prevalence rate trajectory that Wisconsin and West Virginia have. 1308 01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:57,680 Speaker 1: So if we continue what we're doing right now, which is, 1309 01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:00,320 Speaker 1: you know, trying to manage it and shoot some extra deer, 1310 01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:04,400 Speaker 1: it's very realistic market in the next decade that prevalence 1311 01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:06,320 Speaker 1: rate is going to go from five percent of the 1312 01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:10,520 Speaker 1: deer to the deer so not good. We know if 1313 01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:13,840 Speaker 1: what we're doing right now continues, the future is very bleak. 1314 01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:15,840 Speaker 1: That's not going to be good. So with the Game 1315 01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:18,680 Speaker 1: Commission said, hey, let's do this. We want to reduce 1316 01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:21,520 Speaker 1: the number of deer in that area to a certain level. 1317 01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:25,040 Speaker 1: And the good thing is they feel that looking at 1318 01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:29,120 Speaker 1: data from Colorado and Illinois, they both have some success 1319 01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:32,840 Speaker 1: stories of doing what are doing something very similar to 1320 01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:35,160 Speaker 1: what the Pennsylvania Game Commission is going to try. Now 1321 01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:39,400 Speaker 1: by reducing those numbers, they can maintain the prevalence rate 1322 01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:41,520 Speaker 1: where it is and not allowed me to climb. And 1323 01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:43,400 Speaker 1: that's really what we need to do is slow the 1324 01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:46,120 Speaker 1: spread of this disease until the science can catch up 1325 01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:49,760 Speaker 1: and you know, and help us solve this problem. So 1326 01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:51,640 Speaker 1: what the Game Commission said is, we know, if we 1327 01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:54,800 Speaker 1: continue what we're doing now, the future is not good. However, 1328 01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:57,880 Speaker 1: let's go in reduce the number of deer and try 1329 01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:00,600 Speaker 1: to hold this rate right at this five cent level. 1330 01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:04,920 Speaker 1: So to do that, they increase the antalyst tags for 1331 01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:07,880 Speaker 1: that area. They increased our d map coupons, which is 1332 01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:12,040 Speaker 1: Deer Management Assistance Program coupons, which allow landowners to harvest 1333 01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:14,840 Speaker 1: additional antalysts deer. You know, we want to take this 1334 01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:19,680 Speaker 1: deer level down to what they're saying, there's two thousand 1335 01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:23,519 Speaker 1: deer in this study area. So hunters got the first 1336 01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:27,080 Speaker 1: chance to do that, and they certainly took some. They 1337 01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:30,000 Speaker 1: didn't take as many as a game commission wanted. So 1338 01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:32,960 Speaker 1: here in the very near future, Wildlife Services is going 1339 01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:34,800 Speaker 1: through the U. S d A. It's going to go 1340 01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:38,840 Speaker 1: in and sharp shoot some additional deer to bring that 1341 01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:43,360 Speaker 1: deer herd down to about two thousand. They think that 1342 01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:46,760 Speaker 1: they can hold the level there. Well, what's going to 1343 01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:48,760 Speaker 1: happen is, you know, hunters here, Oh my gosh, they're 1344 01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:50,639 Speaker 1: killing all these deer. You know, and then you see 1345 01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:53,240 Speaker 1: the size. It's a deer slaughter, it's a dearer eradication, 1346 01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:55,439 Speaker 1: and those are the things that we really have to 1347 01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:58,479 Speaker 1: guard against because, yes, they are taking some there, they're 1348 01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:02,200 Speaker 1: probably going to shoot about two thousand deer in there. However, 1349 01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:05,120 Speaker 1: they're not eradicating the deer. There's still going to be 1350 01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:08,920 Speaker 1: a very honorable population left. And what the deer bods 1351 01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:11,600 Speaker 1: from the Game Commission estimate is once they reach that 1352 01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:15,280 Speaker 1: target goal, the deer density in that area is still 1353 01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:18,320 Speaker 1: going to be equivalent to the average deer density in 1354 01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:23,240 Speaker 1: every state that surrounds Pennsylvania. So there'll be fewer deer, yes, 1355 01:09:23,320 --> 01:09:26,720 Speaker 1: but still a very honorable population, you know, and in 1356 01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:30,599 Speaker 1: the name of protecting our future. So that is very good. 1357 01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:34,160 Speaker 1: So we support that. Now, what really needs to happen 1358 01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:37,080 Speaker 1: is better messaging from the Game Commission to just be 1359 01:09:37,120 --> 01:09:40,639 Speaker 1: out talking to hunters everywhere saying we're not eradicating deer. 1360 01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:43,240 Speaker 1: We're not, you know, eliminating your dear herd. You know, 1361 01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:45,640 Speaker 1: we are reducing it, but you're still gonna have a 1362 01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:49,439 Speaker 1: very honorable population, and kind of explain all that. You know. 1363 01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:52,559 Speaker 1: Messaging I think is key on this because you know, 1364 01:09:52,920 --> 01:09:55,519 Speaker 1: a lot of hunters don't hear from the game commissioner, 1365 01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:57,800 Speaker 1: hear what's happening, and as soon as their body tells 1366 01:09:57,840 --> 01:09:59,760 Speaker 1: them all they're gonna wipe all the deer out, Well, 1367 01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:04,040 Speaker 1: then they are just a bad trash and then that's 1368 01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:08,280 Speaker 1: not good for anybody. Yeah, it seems like so much 1369 01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:14,000 Speaker 1: of c w D management is hunter management, and that 1370 01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:16,200 Speaker 1: you have to find a way to address the disease 1371 01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:20,720 Speaker 1: concerns while also maintaining collaboration with the hunting public right 1372 01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:22,680 Speaker 1: and I feel like that's where we're losing in some 1373 01:10:22,800 --> 01:10:27,760 Speaker 1: areas in some states, there's a lot of nectivity around it. One, um, 1374 01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:30,840 Speaker 1: one aspect of this in which I know that I've 1375 01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:34,840 Speaker 1: read some stuff from you guys where you've specifically that 1376 01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:37,559 Speaker 1: it's really important to try to address c w D 1377 01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:39,920 Speaker 1: in a way that still maintains hunter engagement. And one 1378 01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:42,360 Speaker 1: of the things you talked about was maintaining the ability 1379 01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:46,559 Speaker 1: for hunters to still managed for older age class box 1380 01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:48,479 Speaker 1: and hunt older age class box if they if they 1381 01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:51,040 Speaker 1: choose to do so, because that's obviously been something that 1382 01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:53,200 Speaker 1: a lot of hunters are interested in doing these days. 1383 01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:55,839 Speaker 1: Um So this brings us to one of the management 1384 01:10:55,880 --> 01:10:59,120 Speaker 1: strategies c w D. You, here's some folks saying, well, 1385 01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:02,320 Speaker 1: Buck are if I if I get if you've got 1386 01:11:02,320 --> 01:11:04,240 Speaker 1: this ratio right, correct me if I'm wrong, But I 1387 01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:07,840 Speaker 1: believe that on average two out of three c w 1388 01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:11,000 Speaker 1: D positives are Bucks, So Bucks, for whatever reasons, seem 1389 01:11:11,040 --> 01:11:13,880 Speaker 1: to have it more often. And then also I think 1390 01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:17,400 Speaker 1: I remember reading that older age class Bucks tend to 1391 01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:20,519 Speaker 1: have it more often. Um, if I'm wrong there too, 1392 01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:23,120 Speaker 1: But all that's to say that I've heard some people 1393 01:11:23,160 --> 01:11:25,479 Speaker 1: say that some people that are very aggressive with managing 1394 01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:27,400 Speaker 1: c w D has said we gotta kill them all, 1395 01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:31,080 Speaker 1: like kill or sorry. They want to kill Bucks right away. 1396 01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:33,599 Speaker 1: So they're saying, no more managing for older age class Bucks. 1397 01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:35,840 Speaker 1: We're gonna kill them in a year and a half old. Um, 1398 01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:38,800 Speaker 1: while I've heard others say, well, does that mean you 1399 01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:41,479 Speaker 1: can't have any kind of quality deer management anymore? While 1400 01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:45,240 Speaker 1: also caring about c w D. What what is your 1401 01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:47,400 Speaker 1: take on that? Kip? And I know that QDA may 1402 01:11:47,479 --> 01:11:49,920 Speaker 1: has has kind of shared some thoughts on that as well. 1403 01:11:49,960 --> 01:11:55,360 Speaker 1: Can you elaborate? Sure? There's really two different main strategies 1404 01:11:55,400 --> 01:11:58,160 Speaker 1: of agencies have taken with regard to managing c w D, 1405 01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:00,880 Speaker 1: you know, focus on harvest effor really on the buck 1406 01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:07,559 Speaker 1: side to drive that age structure young. And many states 1407 01:12:07,560 --> 01:12:09,759 Speaker 1: have followed that. Those are the states that then remove 1408 01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:12,400 Speaker 1: the ant the restriction on yearling bucks and you try 1409 01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:15,160 Speaker 1: to kill those years before they can disperse, because you 1410 01:12:15,240 --> 01:12:17,880 Speaker 1: have bucks tend to have a higher prevalence rate than 1411 01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:21,200 Speaker 1: those and then as they get older, that prevalence rate increases. 1412 01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:24,559 Speaker 1: So on paper, it says, you know what the best 1413 01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:27,760 Speaker 1: way to fight this disease is to keep populations low 1414 01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:31,720 Speaker 1: and to keep age structures very young. And U That 1415 01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:35,000 Speaker 1: works great on paper, but that's not the real world. 1416 01:12:35,160 --> 01:12:37,360 Speaker 1: And you know, in the in the real world, you 1417 01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:40,360 Speaker 1: need hunters to execute your plan. So you can have 1418 01:12:40,439 --> 01:12:43,880 Speaker 1: the best CWD plan from your state Wilde agency, but 1419 01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:46,559 Speaker 1: if hunters don't support it, they're not going to execute it. 1420 01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:47,920 Speaker 1: And if they don't execute it, you know it's not 1421 01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:51,280 Speaker 1: gonna work. So what we have said is sure we 1422 01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:54,880 Speaker 1: understand that oldest bucks tend to have a higher prevalence 1423 01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:58,479 Speaker 1: rate to c w D. However, for hunters to want 1424 01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:01,240 Speaker 1: to stay engage and in you to be supportive of 1425 01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:04,680 Speaker 1: agency programs and harvest analyst, dear, you know, they need 1426 01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:07,599 Speaker 1: to be motivated, and in many cases that motivation comes 1427 01:13:07,640 --> 01:13:11,639 Speaker 1: from the opportunity to photograph and hunt older bucks. So 1428 01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:14,880 Speaker 1: we feel this far better to have some older bucks 1429 01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:18,160 Speaker 1: in the population if that keeps hunters engaged and then 1430 01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:22,240 Speaker 1: keeps them supporting the agency harvesting at Lewis deer and 1431 01:13:22,560 --> 01:13:25,960 Speaker 1: supporting overall wildlife programs. So that that is our take 1432 01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:29,000 Speaker 1: on it, and partly that comes from research out of 1433 01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:33,080 Speaker 1: Wisconsin that shows that, uh, from the dough side, if 1434 01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:36,960 Speaker 1: for an adult dough is CWD positive, uh, any of 1435 01:13:37,040 --> 01:13:40,840 Speaker 1: her relatives nearby are ten times more likely to be 1436 01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:43,680 Speaker 1: c w D positive than another dough in area that's 1437 01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:46,680 Speaker 1: not related to her. So essentially what happens is, you 1438 01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:50,640 Speaker 1: know these aunt Lewis dear they can become reservoirs of 1439 01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:52,680 Speaker 1: c w D. You know that we may never get 1440 01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:55,360 Speaker 1: rid of. So we don't think that you should allow 1441 01:13:55,400 --> 01:13:57,519 Speaker 1: all these bucks to become fully mature. That's not it 1442 01:13:57,600 --> 01:14:00,320 Speaker 1: at all, But we think it's far it are to 1443 01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:03,120 Speaker 1: allow some of them to do that, to keep those 1444 01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:06,000 Speaker 1: hunters hunting and keep those ant lists, deer herbs or 1445 01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:09,200 Speaker 1: anti aside, you know, trimmed down, so the deer herds 1446 01:14:09,280 --> 01:14:11,840 Speaker 1: don't grow, you know, to be far too high and 1447 01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:14,639 Speaker 1: then spread it from the antles side as well. And 1448 01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:17,680 Speaker 1: that's really the tax that Pennsylvania has taken. You know, 1449 01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:21,759 Speaker 1: they maintain their antly restrictions. They are really focused on effort, 1450 01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:25,000 Speaker 1: harvest effort on the antlest side and UH and Q 1451 01:14:25,240 --> 01:14:27,920 Speaker 1: and ay's opinion, and in my professional opinion, that is 1452 01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:32,200 Speaker 1: a better tax to take. And then partly because UM 1453 01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:37,200 Speaker 1: with regard to UH sex ratio differences in CWD prevalence, 1454 01:14:37,680 --> 01:14:40,599 Speaker 1: some states tend to be you know, a lot more 1455 01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:44,800 Speaker 1: positive in bucks. As you said, nationally, about two thirds 1456 01:14:44,840 --> 01:14:49,080 Speaker 1: of vologer that a CW deposit that we've identified our bucks. 1457 01:14:49,080 --> 01:14:51,320 Speaker 1: Some of that's a little bit of a sampling bias though, 1458 01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:53,800 Speaker 1: where we just sample a lot more bucks, because you 1459 01:14:53,880 --> 01:14:58,400 Speaker 1: have some states like Pennsylvania and Illinois and Texas that 1460 01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:01,400 Speaker 1: of all the deer they found it CBD positive, it's 1461 01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:05,200 Speaker 1: a lot closer to fifty bucks and does so so 1462 01:15:05,400 --> 01:15:08,040 Speaker 1: it's not always just the bus um. We have to 1463 01:15:08,120 --> 01:15:10,640 Speaker 1: really do a good job to manage both sides of 1464 01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:14,520 Speaker 1: the deer population to be effective at this. Yeah. So 1465 01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:17,400 Speaker 1: so everything you just said there I think supports what 1466 01:15:17,439 --> 01:15:19,559 Speaker 1: I'm next going to say, and you set it yourself 1467 01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:22,040 Speaker 1: a few minutes ago. That being that, a lot of 1468 01:15:22,080 --> 01:15:24,720 Speaker 1: what we're trying to do, it seems from a management 1469 01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:27,960 Speaker 1: side of things with c w D is simply stem 1470 01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:30,559 Speaker 1: the stem, that stem the tide a little bit, slow 1471 01:15:30,600 --> 01:15:33,080 Speaker 1: things down enough so that the research and science can 1472 01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:37,200 Speaker 1: catch up until we can find real concrete solutions. Um, 1473 01:15:37,320 --> 01:15:39,479 Speaker 1: is there anything on the research side over the last 1474 01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:42,280 Speaker 1: year or two and anything positive that's worth sharing? Have 1475 01:15:42,400 --> 01:15:45,000 Speaker 1: we learn anything new that's substantial? Have have there been 1476 01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:49,840 Speaker 1: any advances or anything encouraging that's that's worth the mentioning? Well, 1477 01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:52,880 Speaker 1: there there's always continue to try to develop a better 1478 01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:56,479 Speaker 1: live animal test, which is very good. Um, we don't 1479 01:15:56,520 --> 01:15:59,120 Speaker 1: have a great one yet, but just the fact that 1480 01:15:59,160 --> 01:16:02,400 Speaker 1: we continue to try to find one is very good. Uh. 1481 01:16:02,439 --> 01:16:05,720 Speaker 1: They're recognizing the need to have a quicker and more 1482 01:16:05,720 --> 01:16:10,680 Speaker 1: reliable field test for hunters as more hunters now have 1483 01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:12,960 Speaker 1: to hunt in these areas you know, as you know 1484 01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:15,080 Speaker 1: in Michigan where if you shoot a deer in the 1485 01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:18,519 Speaker 1: c deer you have it tested. Anyway, you will have 1486 01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:21,840 Speaker 1: it tested. And then Uh, Michigan last year said a 1487 01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:25,080 Speaker 1: goal of having the fastest turnaround time in the country 1488 01:16:25,240 --> 01:16:28,120 Speaker 1: hunter turns that test in, they get the results within 1489 01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:31,800 Speaker 1: two weeks. And for hunters who are not impacted by 1490 01:16:31,800 --> 01:16:33,200 Speaker 1: as I think two weeks, you have to wait two 1491 01:16:33,240 --> 01:16:36,400 Speaker 1: weeks to know. Um that is much clearer than others. 1492 01:16:36,400 --> 01:16:38,640 Speaker 1: So that's a long time to have to wake. So 1493 01:16:38,680 --> 01:16:41,320 Speaker 1: if we had a more quicker test, you know, the 1494 01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:44,360 Speaker 1: hunters could find out you know, within you know, a 1495 01:16:44,479 --> 01:16:47,479 Speaker 1: day or an hour or something. You know, we're not 1496 01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:49,840 Speaker 1: there yet, but that would be so helpful. And at 1497 01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:52,759 Speaker 1: least people are looking to try to do that. UM 1498 01:16:52,800 --> 01:16:55,320 Speaker 1: So no success story there yet, but the fact that 1499 01:16:55,400 --> 01:16:57,960 Speaker 1: we are looking and trying just lets us know that, 1500 01:16:57,960 --> 01:17:00,200 Speaker 1: you know, we are one step closer to the up 1501 01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:02,599 Speaker 1: and and that's very important. Yeah. I actually just saw 1502 01:17:02,640 --> 01:17:06,559 Speaker 1: an article yesterday, I think UM talking about a new 1503 01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:09,519 Speaker 1: test that they're working on over in Minnesota. I think 1504 01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:12,280 Speaker 1: the University of Minnesota is is seeking some funding for this. 1505 01:17:12,400 --> 01:17:14,679 Speaker 1: I think they just asked for a two million dollar 1506 01:17:14,760 --> 01:17:17,280 Speaker 1: grant from the state legislature to to look at something 1507 01:17:17,320 --> 01:17:20,720 Speaker 1: that it's I can't remember exactly how this works, but 1508 01:17:20,760 --> 01:17:23,599 Speaker 1: there's a way that they're able to take samples from 1509 01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:26,800 Speaker 1: even something like saliva or deer droppings and they can 1510 01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:29,360 Speaker 1: test it and instead of a two week turnaround period 1511 01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:32,040 Speaker 1: on getting that positive result back or whatever result back, 1512 01:17:32,360 --> 01:17:35,040 Speaker 1: they can now see a positive or negative result back 1513 01:17:35,040 --> 01:17:37,639 Speaker 1: and just hours with this new tool they have kind 1514 01:17:37,640 --> 01:17:40,920 Speaker 1: of it's more of a camera based tool. UM. So 1515 01:17:41,240 --> 01:17:42,800 Speaker 1: I don't I don't know if that's gonna end up 1516 01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:45,000 Speaker 1: being something that ends up being the solution, but it 1517 01:17:45,040 --> 01:17:48,559 Speaker 1: was interesting to see something new being tried there, and UM, 1518 01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:51,120 Speaker 1: like you said, we we certainly need some some wins 1519 01:17:51,160 --> 01:17:53,719 Speaker 1: on that front. I also saw um and wrote about 1520 01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:56,519 Speaker 1: this late last year. There's been a handful of different 1521 01:17:56,560 --> 01:18:00,679 Speaker 1: bills introduced nationally to try to increase funding for new 1522 01:18:00,760 --> 01:18:05,280 Speaker 1: research UM and an additional testing and science done around this. 1523 01:18:05,360 --> 01:18:07,200 Speaker 1: I think that's that's an easy thing that we as 1524 01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:09,400 Speaker 1: deer hunters can do is kind of get behind some 1525 01:18:09,439 --> 01:18:12,880 Speaker 1: of those things, right kick and encourage our lawmakers to 1526 01:18:12,880 --> 01:18:15,519 Speaker 1: to to appropriate some funding to that research, to to 1527 01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:19,040 Speaker 1: prioritize that kind of stuff. UM. Is there anything on 1528 01:18:19,080 --> 01:18:21,800 Speaker 1: that front that you think is worth us mentioning and 1529 01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:25,800 Speaker 1: touching on? Absolutely? And you are exactly right. You know. 1530 01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:29,280 Speaker 1: Back in another early two thousand's one CWD was first 1531 01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:33,000 Speaker 1: identified in Wisconsin and uh, there was a fair amount 1532 01:18:33,040 --> 01:18:35,320 Speaker 1: of federal funding funding I'm sorry, you know, close to 1533 01:18:35,320 --> 01:18:39,400 Speaker 1: twenty million dollars a year to provide help and information 1534 01:18:39,439 --> 01:18:42,519 Speaker 1: on that. And really once they decided that, you know what, 1535 01:18:42,920 --> 01:18:46,559 Speaker 1: this probably cannot impact humans, almost all of that federal 1536 01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:49,280 Speaker 1: funding dried up. So because of that, there's a real 1537 01:18:49,439 --> 01:18:53,599 Speaker 1: lack of funds for research today on this. So yeah, 1538 01:18:53,720 --> 01:18:56,639 Speaker 1: those bills that you mentioned, there's actually three main bills 1539 01:18:56,960 --> 01:19:00,439 Speaker 1: that would all help tremendously from from the government and 1540 01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:04,240 Speaker 1: with regard to funding for research and funding for state 1541 01:19:04,280 --> 01:19:09,080 Speaker 1: agencies to try alternative management strategies. Um, those are really big. 1542 01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:11,360 Speaker 1: So yeah, that's something every hunter can do is let 1543 01:19:11,360 --> 01:19:13,680 Speaker 1: their his or her legislator no, you know what, I 1544 01:19:13,760 --> 01:19:16,639 Speaker 1: support these, you know, please you support them as well, 1545 01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:19,719 Speaker 1: and they'll take a big sportsman's push to make that happen. 1546 01:19:19,960 --> 01:19:22,040 Speaker 1: But that would that would be a huge step forward 1547 01:19:22,120 --> 01:19:24,760 Speaker 1: in the battle against c w D. Yeah, I'll make 1548 01:19:24,800 --> 01:19:28,839 Speaker 1: sure to include in the links on this podcast post 1549 01:19:29,120 --> 01:19:32,519 Speaker 1: the names of those specific bills and and how you 1550 01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:34,640 Speaker 1: can take some action on that and let your lawmakers know, 1551 01:19:34,680 --> 01:19:37,240 Speaker 1: because I think that's that's a simple thing we can 1552 01:19:37,240 --> 01:19:39,760 Speaker 1: do that could really help whether you. You You know, and 1553 01:19:39,840 --> 01:19:42,360 Speaker 1: I mentioned this last December when I wrote about this, 1554 01:19:42,439 --> 01:19:45,919 Speaker 1: whether you believe everything we're talking about here that CWD 1555 01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:48,559 Speaker 1: really isn't a big issue, or even if you are 1556 01:19:48,720 --> 01:19:50,200 Speaker 1: on the other set of issue and you think it's 1557 01:19:50,240 --> 01:19:54,200 Speaker 1: all overblown. Either way, both all of us want answers, right, 1558 01:19:54,240 --> 01:19:58,000 Speaker 1: We want more research to clarify whatever position is, and 1559 01:19:58,080 --> 01:20:01,799 Speaker 1: so getting funding for that additional research UM is crucial. 1560 01:20:02,240 --> 01:20:04,760 Speaker 1: And we all want answers, whether that's going to agree 1561 01:20:04,760 --> 01:20:07,519 Speaker 1: without our preconceived notions or not. We need answers, and 1562 01:20:07,560 --> 01:20:09,280 Speaker 1: I think this is one way to do that. So 1563 01:20:09,800 --> 01:20:12,160 Speaker 1: highly recommend everyone, if you've got an extra five minutes 1564 01:20:12,160 --> 01:20:14,439 Speaker 1: to just send a quick email to your senators or 1565 01:20:14,439 --> 01:20:17,280 Speaker 1: your representatives and UM and ask them to focus on 1566 01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:19,439 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff and keep I know you're you're 1567 01:20:19,479 --> 01:20:22,200 Speaker 1: coming up on time here, So I guess I kind 1568 01:20:22,200 --> 01:20:25,280 Speaker 1: of just want to give you an opportunity to to 1569 01:20:25,439 --> 01:20:27,400 Speaker 1: a share if there's if there's anything else to top 1570 01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:29,599 Speaker 1: of your mind as far as what's encouraging or what's 1571 01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:33,479 Speaker 1: concerning moving forward. UM would love to hear any final 1572 01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:35,960 Speaker 1: other points you think are worth mentioning, and if not 1573 01:20:36,040 --> 01:20:38,600 Speaker 1: anything on that front, just what call to action you 1574 01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:40,920 Speaker 1: might have for all of us as far as UM 1575 01:20:40,960 --> 01:20:42,880 Speaker 1: what we use deer hunters can do moving forward to 1576 01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:45,400 Speaker 1: make sure the state of white tails is even more 1577 01:20:45,439 --> 01:20:49,760 Speaker 1: positive in two thousand twenty got you. Well, there's a 1578 01:20:49,800 --> 01:20:52,759 Speaker 1: tremendous amount of other information in the white Tail Report 1579 01:20:52,840 --> 01:20:55,519 Speaker 1: that the hunters would be interested in, such as where 1580 01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:58,599 Speaker 1: you can use tracking dogs to to locate multi big game, 1581 01:20:59,160 --> 01:21:03,080 Speaker 1: UM do processors, what states you what do wildlife surveys 1582 01:21:03,400 --> 01:21:05,920 Speaker 1: or habitat surveys, and a whole host of other things. 1583 01:21:06,200 --> 01:21:07,960 Speaker 1: But the one point that I will end with and 1584 01:21:08,600 --> 01:21:11,040 Speaker 1: in action market. This is the first time that I 1585 01:21:11,080 --> 01:21:14,000 Speaker 1: have shared this data because I just found this out 1586 01:21:14,360 --> 01:21:17,400 Speaker 1: and uh it actually every year in the report where 1587 01:21:17,400 --> 01:21:19,519 Speaker 1: I said we have the total number of antlid bucks 1588 01:21:19,520 --> 01:21:23,479 Speaker 1: harvest and anatalists deer harvested UM this year that that 1589 01:21:23,680 --> 01:21:27,240 Speaker 1: total list actually lacks one state, which is Alabama, because 1590 01:21:27,280 --> 01:21:30,160 Speaker 1: there was an issue with their deer harvest numbers that 1591 01:21:30,320 --> 01:21:33,920 Speaker 1: wasn't resolved by the time we published our report. So 1592 01:21:33,960 --> 01:21:37,280 Speaker 1: we published the data from everybody accept them. Well, now 1593 01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:40,360 Speaker 1: I have their data. So this literally is the first 1594 01:21:40,400 --> 01:21:43,200 Speaker 1: time that I have shared this information with anybody. So 1595 01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:48,759 Speaker 1: you you have to sell ss of this um last 1596 01:21:48,840 --> 01:21:52,720 Speaker 1: year to the two thousand seventeen hunting season, uh is 1597 01:21:52,760 --> 01:21:57,559 Speaker 1: the first time since, so it's been a long time. 1598 01:21:58,240 --> 01:22:01,920 Speaker 1: The season was the first season since the season that 1599 01:22:02,120 --> 01:22:05,840 Speaker 1: hunters in the US shot more antler bucks than antalyst deer. 1600 01:22:07,800 --> 01:22:11,320 Speaker 1: There's a big deal, you know, in the first time ever, 1601 01:22:11,439 --> 01:22:13,840 Speaker 1: we shot more analysts deer and then got on the 1602 01:22:13,920 --> 01:22:16,360 Speaker 1: road to really balance and deer hers of habitat and 1603 01:22:16,400 --> 01:22:20,760 Speaker 1: being good deer stewarts, and uh, following that, we had 1604 01:22:20,840 --> 01:22:23,000 Speaker 1: big gaps. You know, we shot way more analysts in 1605 01:22:23,040 --> 01:22:25,960 Speaker 1: the bucks. But the last few years that's been getting 1606 01:22:25,960 --> 01:22:28,960 Speaker 1: closer and closer and closer together for the reasons that 1607 01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:31,479 Speaker 1: we talked about early in this show, where we're just 1608 01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:34,360 Speaker 1: not shooting as many analysts deer as the past, and 1609 01:22:34,600 --> 01:22:37,600 Speaker 1: now that we have Alabama's data, and last year, for 1610 01:22:37,680 --> 01:22:41,680 Speaker 1: the first time since, we shot more antler bucks than 1611 01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:45,679 Speaker 1: analysts deer. So that's a milestone, you know, in waite 1612 01:22:45,680 --> 01:22:48,960 Speaker 1: tail deer management in the United States. So you're gonna 1613 01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:51,720 Speaker 1: hear a lot more about it, and you literally have 1614 01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:55,400 Speaker 1: the data first. So so what do you take from that, kid, 1615 01:22:55,479 --> 01:22:57,200 Speaker 1: when you say it's a milestone, do you view as 1616 01:22:57,240 --> 01:23:01,599 Speaker 1: a positive milestone as a negative milestone as Uh, I'm 1617 01:23:01,600 --> 01:23:03,240 Speaker 1: not sure. I mean, we talked a little bit about 1618 01:23:03,280 --> 01:23:05,439 Speaker 1: this earlier, like, what does it mean that dope antlers 1619 01:23:05,479 --> 01:23:07,400 Speaker 1: doe harvest has been going down? But when you see 1620 01:23:07,439 --> 01:23:11,200 Speaker 1: this kind of shifting of the equilibrium at a high level, 1621 01:23:11,960 --> 01:23:14,720 Speaker 1: what does that mean? I don't see it as a 1622 01:23:14,760 --> 01:23:18,839 Speaker 1: positive thing. Uh. And partly because in the vast majority 1623 01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:21,880 Speaker 1: of deer management programs, we need to harvest more ant 1624 01:23:21,880 --> 01:23:24,680 Speaker 1: lily list deer than antler bucks annually to have a 1625 01:23:24,680 --> 01:23:28,840 Speaker 1: healthy situation. Now, there are certainly some states that should 1626 01:23:28,840 --> 01:23:31,800 Speaker 1: shoot more bucks annually than than analysts here, places like 1627 01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:35,040 Speaker 1: northern New England. Um. And there are some states like 1628 01:23:35,120 --> 01:23:39,160 Speaker 1: even Nebraska, that aren't as productive as much of the country, 1629 01:23:39,200 --> 01:23:42,960 Speaker 1: so they just simply can't sustain h harvesting as many 1630 01:23:43,000 --> 01:23:46,599 Speaker 1: analysts here as bucks annually. However, for the vast majority 1631 01:23:46,640 --> 01:23:49,920 Speaker 1: of states, we absolutely should be shooting more does than 1632 01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:52,960 Speaker 1: bucks on it in any given year. Um So, the 1633 01:23:53,000 --> 01:23:56,360 Speaker 1: fact that last year we shot more antler bucks than 1634 01:23:56,360 --> 01:23:59,320 Speaker 1: does is not a positive sign for us. For a 1635 01:23:59,320 --> 01:24:03,120 Speaker 1: handful of state that's okay, but big scale across the US, 1636 01:24:03,439 --> 01:24:06,160 Speaker 1: that is not a good thing. And uh, even you know, 1637 01:24:06,200 --> 01:24:08,679 Speaker 1: we don't have to be shooting twice as many analyst 1638 01:24:08,720 --> 01:24:12,120 Speaker 1: deist bucks nationally, but the total at the end of 1639 01:24:12,120 --> 01:24:15,160 Speaker 1: the year. Uh, we're focused on too much effort on 1640 01:24:15,200 --> 01:24:17,320 Speaker 1: the buck side of up and not enough on the 1641 01:24:17,360 --> 01:24:22,160 Speaker 1: anialist side and too many states. Interesting. Well, UM, that 1642 01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:25,360 Speaker 1: is that is very interesting to hear, and to your point, 1643 01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:27,439 Speaker 1: it's probably something that we need to talk about more 1644 01:24:27,439 --> 01:24:30,040 Speaker 1: about why that's happening and what weice hunters need to 1645 01:24:30,040 --> 01:24:32,320 Speaker 1: be thinking about moving forward and making sure that we're 1646 01:24:32,360 --> 01:24:37,080 Speaker 1: not um getting too tied up in in targeting big 1647 01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:39,920 Speaker 1: mature bucks and big antlers and and forgetting about the 1648 01:24:39,960 --> 01:24:43,639 Speaker 1: management responsibilities really that we have to um. But that's 1649 01:24:43,680 --> 01:24:46,759 Speaker 1: probably a conversation for another day. So kip. For folks 1650 01:24:46,760 --> 01:24:48,960 Speaker 1: that want to find the White Tail Report who want 1651 01:24:48,960 --> 01:24:51,519 Speaker 1: to learn more about the Quality Deer Management Association and 1652 01:24:51,640 --> 01:24:55,280 Speaker 1: become members, um, where can they find that stuff? That's 1653 01:24:55,320 --> 01:24:58,800 Speaker 1: all our website market QDMA dot com And uh, and 1654 01:24:58,800 --> 01:25:00,320 Speaker 1: we'd love to say that that q d m A 1655 01:25:00,439 --> 01:25:03,599 Speaker 1: is where deer hunters belong. So anybody's deer hunter would 1656 01:25:03,600 --> 01:25:05,479 Speaker 1: love to have them be a member and help support 1657 01:25:05,520 --> 01:25:08,760 Speaker 1: the future of hunting excellent. Well, I can't, um, I 1658 01:25:08,800 --> 01:25:11,479 Speaker 1: can't recommend what you guys are doing enough to other 1659 01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:12,960 Speaker 1: folks out there if you're not a member of the 1660 01:25:13,000 --> 01:25:15,800 Speaker 1: q D may yet. It's really a terrific organization. As 1661 01:25:15,840 --> 01:25:17,880 Speaker 1: you can see from what Kip has shared, just the 1662 01:25:18,280 --> 01:25:20,559 Speaker 1: knowledge and resource of data they have out there for 1663 01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:24,519 Speaker 1: hunters is is is second to none, and they're doing 1664 01:25:24,560 --> 01:25:27,000 Speaker 1: a lot of great things for what we care about 1665 01:25:27,080 --> 01:25:30,400 Speaker 1: as well. Not to mention, they're keeping Further employed. And 1666 01:25:30,600 --> 01:25:33,280 Speaker 1: if Further is not employed, what's the wire tup podcast? 1667 01:25:33,439 --> 01:25:37,920 Speaker 1: So very good. So Kip, thank you so much for 1668 01:25:37,920 --> 01:25:40,800 Speaker 1: taking the time to be with your day. Absolutely, it's 1669 01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:42,280 Speaker 1: always good to talk to you my friends. You have 1670 01:25:42,320 --> 01:25:44,840 Speaker 1: a good day too, And there you have a guys 1671 01:25:44,880 --> 01:25:48,599 Speaker 1: another podcast in the books. I think the only thing 1672 01:25:48,640 --> 01:25:51,920 Speaker 1: worth mentioning right now is just I mean, you know, 1673 01:25:52,280 --> 01:25:54,000 Speaker 1: I say it all the time, but it's one of 1674 01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:56,240 Speaker 1: those things where I tell my wife you know, I 1675 01:25:56,280 --> 01:25:57,840 Speaker 1: love you. I tell her that all the time, but 1676 01:25:57,880 --> 01:26:00,000 Speaker 1: sometimes maybe I wonder that I tell her too many 1677 01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:02,400 Speaker 1: any times, and now she doesn't it doesn't mean anything. 1678 01:26:02,439 --> 01:26:04,640 Speaker 1: She just heard me say it so many times that 1679 01:26:04,720 --> 01:26:07,840 Speaker 1: now it's just kind of an assumed deal. Um. So 1680 01:26:07,920 --> 01:26:10,479 Speaker 1: maybe I'm making a mistake here by thanking you guys 1681 01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:12,519 Speaker 1: every week on the podcast, because maybe you just here 1682 01:26:12,560 --> 01:26:14,800 Speaker 1: and you don't even think twice about it. But I'm 1683 01:26:14,840 --> 01:26:16,880 Speaker 1: just gonna keep on doing it because it's not something 1684 01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:19,040 Speaker 1: I'm just thrown out there. It really is the truth. 1685 01:26:19,160 --> 01:26:21,320 Speaker 1: Every morning, I wake up and I go to my 1686 01:26:21,400 --> 01:26:23,960 Speaker 1: office and I start working on a podcast or an 1687 01:26:24,040 --> 01:26:27,080 Speaker 1: article or an Instagram story or whatever is I'm doing 1688 01:26:27,120 --> 01:26:29,360 Speaker 1: that day, and I have to pinch myself and I 1689 01:26:29,400 --> 01:26:32,320 Speaker 1: have to remind myself how nuts it is that I 1690 01:26:32,400 --> 01:26:35,840 Speaker 1: get to talk about deer hunting in the outdoors and 1691 01:26:35,840 --> 01:26:38,960 Speaker 1: and write about it and share my thoughts and experiences 1692 01:26:39,000 --> 01:26:40,800 Speaker 1: about it. I get to do that every day. It's 1693 01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:43,080 Speaker 1: such a blessing. It's something that I I do not 1694 01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:45,840 Speaker 1: take for granted, and I find it to be a 1695 01:26:45,880 --> 01:26:48,280 Speaker 1: responsibility that I take very seriously to us. Isn't just 1696 01:26:48,320 --> 01:26:49,920 Speaker 1: something I'm doing for myself. I'm trying to find a 1697 01:26:49,920 --> 01:26:52,240 Speaker 1: way to do something that that's helping and serving people too. 1698 01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:54,720 Speaker 1: And uh, and I thank you because you guys are 1699 01:26:54,760 --> 01:26:58,080 Speaker 1: the ones who make all that possible. So thank you 1700 01:26:58,360 --> 01:27:02,800 Speaker 1: for listening to this podcast. And I think I will 1701 01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:06,800 Speaker 1: just wrap it up by saying until then, until next time, 1702 01:27:07,520 --> 01:27:12,640 Speaker 1: stay wired to huh.