1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: Body doctors with Joseph Scott more years ago, I was 2 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: on a task force that set up the national standards 3 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: for medical legal death investigations and it was a real 4 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: honor to be a part of that task force. But 5 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: as part of this we had to become proctors. And 6 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: not only did we develop the curriculum, but back then 7 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: you had to have proctery or test sites where you 8 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: would go and learn how to administer the test. And 9 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: this was all funded by the FEDS. During that period 10 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: of time, I had the privilege of going to the 11 00:00:53,440 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: State and Medical Examiner's office in Maryland, and there I 12 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: got to see the inner workings of an office that 13 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: has been in existence for many, many years, that has 14 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: quite the story history. As a matter of fact, it 15 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: was probably one of the first medical examiner, true medical 16 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 1: examiner systems in the nation. But they've seen a thing 17 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: or two over the years. But I got to tell you, 18 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 1: working at the Medical Examiner, particularly in a place is 19 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: busy as Maryland is, you never know what's going to 20 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: roll through the door, even if that body comes in 21 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: in multiple pieces. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is bodybags, Hey, Dave, 22 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: This case that has been in the news this past week. 23 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: It hadn't even really entered onto my radar, and I 24 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: was kind of shocked by it because it's so over 25 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,959 Speaker 1: the top relative to the forensic evidence and relative Well, 26 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: let's just start at the beginning. 27 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 2: Starting from the top. Here, it is Micheline A Goodwin 28 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 2: and James Nebord Check our boyfriend and girlfriend. They're in 29 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 2: a relationship and they're living together. A friend named Larry 30 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 2: Murphy is at their house when Michelina and James get 31 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 2: into a fight and an argument ended upstairs bedroom. Larry 32 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 2: Murphy tries to inner seed. They said, get out of here, 33 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 2: go downstairs, leave us alone. The argument continues, and then 34 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 2: while he's downstairs, Larry Murphy, here's a gunshot. What happens 35 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 2: next is why we're talking about this story. Micheline A 36 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:48,959 Speaker 2: Goodwin comes down the stairs. I just shot James. Now, 37 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 2: Larry Murphy, you've really got three choices. One, pick up 38 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 2: the phone and call nine to one one get help now. 39 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 2: Two call nine one one, tell the police. This woman 40 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 2: just killed her boyfriend. That's two and number three. Let 41 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 2: me grab my car keys, load him and let's go. 42 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 2: We're taking him to the hospital. We'll deal with the 43 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 2: consequences later. None of those choices seem good to Micheline, 44 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 2: a good one. Here's what she wants Larry Murphy to do. 45 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 2: I need you, Larry to help me cut up his body, 46 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 2: put it in bags, and let's go and get rid 47 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 2: of it in a couple of different counties in Maryland, 48 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 2: rural areas that nobody will ever find his body. And 49 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 2: that's what they do. They don't call for help, nothing 50 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 2: they do. It boggles my mind. And then the family 51 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 2: of James Aboard Chick, it's coming up on Christmas this 52 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 2: December twenty first, and the family realizes nobody has spoken 53 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 2: to or seen James in a while, and they're comparing 54 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 2: notes and realize, hey, last time we need to talk 55 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 2: to him was December seventh. Nobody knows where he is, 56 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 2: and it's December twenty first. So let's go to the police. 57 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 2: We haven't seen him in two weeks, we don't know 58 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 2: where he is. Help us find James Neboord Chick. And 59 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 2: that's where the missing person's case begins. Now where do 60 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 2: you think police going to go? First? Yeah, right back 61 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 2: to Michelin, A good one's house, because that's where James 62 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 2: was living with her now, Joe, I don't know what's 63 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 2: in the water. I don't know why. We've had so 64 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 2: many stories about people getting dismembered, but it seems like 65 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 2: a thing now. 66 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 1: You know, maybe it's just our perception, but this idea 67 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: of you know, scattering the remains, it actually reminds me 68 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: of a case. I think it was from back in thousand, 69 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: two thousand and sixteen, and there was actually a young 70 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: mother who was divorced. If I'm not mistaken, she was 71 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: a nurse and she had met a guy online and 72 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: while they were she's going out with a date with 73 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: this guy and he was like a homeless guy. I 74 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: remember her name was Ingrid Lynn. I don't know if 75 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: you remember that case. We covered it extensively. We you 76 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: know it was I was on with Nancy and then 77 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: back in the hl N days and all that. But 78 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: that individual actually took her out on a date, and 79 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: believe it or not, I know you're you're a big 80 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: baseball person, took her to a Mariner's game. That was 81 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: their first name. 82 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 2: Wow. 83 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, Actually, Kim and I are first date was 84 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: a Braves game. So you know you're thinking, wow, okay, 85 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: you're going to take her out to a ball game, 86 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: and then he takes her back to her home and 87 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 1: kills her in her home and then uses uses a 88 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: limb saw to dismember her in her bathtub. And what 89 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: it has in common with this is that he deposited 90 00:05:55,600 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 1: her remains in various locations around the city. I'll never 91 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: forget that the guy that found he went to pull 92 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: his recycling bin now back from the street back to 93 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: his house, and it felt heavy, and he looked down 94 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 1: in it and there was a bag and there was 95 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: a human footsticking about it. 96 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 2: And this is in Seattle. They really care. That's ecology. 97 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 2: You know, they made sure. And he's thinking, hey, who 98 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 2: put real trash. 99 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: In exactly, And so he's moving this thing around and 100 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: there it is. But you know, you think about this case. 101 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: They didn't just they didn't just deposit her remains in 102 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: Charles County. They actually went into did I say she? 103 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 2: Yeah you did. But it's okay. Look in the in 104 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 2: the game we played Joe, anymore, you might even insult 105 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 2: somebody that's a guy that you say, you know, we 106 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 2: can't say he or she. We're gonna have to come 107 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 2: up with they and them and stuff like that to 108 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 2: cover these I know this. 109 00:06:54,080 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: They deposited Jimmy's remains and not just uh in Charles 110 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: County but also St. Mary's County. 111 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 2: Are these far away you know a lot about it? 112 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: No, they literally bump up against one another. And where's Baltimore? Say, 113 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: is Baltimore in one of those counties? Yeah, it's like 114 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: primarily I think in Charles County, But you know, like 115 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: so many of these metroplex areas like this, it expands 116 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: out so far. You think about Atlanta, you think about 117 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: d C and Baltimore. It's really it used to be 118 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: where there was like this dividing line. And even to 119 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: and I'll probably get called out on this, but even 120 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: up to like Philly, it's almost like you kind of 121 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: bounce from one to another and you never really know 122 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: where you are, you know, other than you cross state 123 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: lines and whatnot, because it's just this continuous flow. But 124 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: if you're familiar with the area and you think about, well, okay, 125 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: I'm not just going to sit here and deposit remains 126 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: in one location. I think that what we ought to 127 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: do is make an initial deposition of remains and then 128 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: we're going to migrate over to an adjacent county and 129 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: deposit more there. I don't know, Davy. If let's try 130 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: to get inside the skin of somebody that's doing this, 131 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: what what do you think as the lay person here, 132 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: what do you think is the rationale for wanting to 133 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: do that? 134 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 2: You know, I thought about this, Joe, that you would 135 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 2: want to get you and the deceased parts as far 136 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 2: away as you can, right. You want them to be 137 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 2: hidden because you're going to so many these times when 138 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 2: we cover cases, people admit what they've done. As soon 139 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 2: as they get caught, they talk to the cops and 140 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 2: within a matter of minutes, there you know, here is 141 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 2: the truth, Here's what really happened. Why'd you bother doing it? 142 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: Then? 143 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 2: If you're going to give up the truth so fast, 144 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 2: why did you bother doing this? You take the person's life, really, 145 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 2: can't you? Anyway? 146 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: That's I'm guessing this is this is a lot of 147 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: work too. It is that I know that's very morbid, 148 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 1: but this is a lot of work, and I think 149 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,079 Speaker 1: you're right on the money here. Why you know, why 150 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: would you give up the information? So I asked, if 151 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: you've done it. 152 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 2: When you've spread them everywhere again, spread across two counties, 153 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 2: and actually two different states are involved here. You're dealing 154 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 2: with Maryland and Virginia. 155 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, well yeah, and it's spread out over 156 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: this huge area. Here's another thing too, for every And 157 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 1: I've always been fascinated by this, the idea, and you 158 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: had mentioned it just a second ago, and you've got 159 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: You've kind of got plus is uh as an upside 160 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 1: and a downside here. I found that with killers, many 161 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: times they keep remains near them in some instances. And 162 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: I think the reason that keep remains near them it's 163 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: a control issue. They want to know that the body 164 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: is where I put it, I have, you know. And 165 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 1: that's why I think some people bury bodies in yards 166 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: in their backyard, you know, because it seems counterintuitive, right, 167 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: I'm going to kill somebody, but yet I'm going to 168 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: hang on to the remains. I'm going to bury them 169 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: in the backyard. I had a case in in South 170 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: Louisiana that I consulted on at one point in time, 171 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:08,319 Speaker 1: and a guy had killed his wife and had buried 172 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: her in the backyard and had taken had gone to 173 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: Walmart and bought I think like fifteen rose bushes, and 174 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: the neighbors said later on, yeah, one night we heard 175 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: him working in the backyard. We got up the next 176 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: morning and looked over the fence and there's a rose 177 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: garden where one had not been. I mean the roses 178 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: were not blooming. Wow, but you know, the roses were there. 179 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: And it took them years years to decide. Well, first off, 180 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: he had the house. They couldn't get a search warrant 181 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: for it. And when the new people moved in that 182 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: he had sold it. I guess he thought that people 183 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: had forgotten about it. They go out there and they 184 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: dig up the rose garden. Sure enough, there she is. 185 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 1: And they went in and luminol them up. Best friends 186 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: did aluminol. Wow in the basement of this place, and 187 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: there was blood everywhere. He had painted, recarpeted, all this 188 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: sort of stuff down there, and he couldn't They still 189 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: show up, Yeah, yeah, yeah, And so they were able 190 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: to determine. They couldn't type it or anything, but they 191 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: knew something horrible it happened. 192 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 2: But it's okay. Where I always thought, they keep the 193 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 2: body closer, the body parts, because that way they know 194 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:26,959 Speaker 2: if anybody finds anything, they be like in Atlanta, where 195 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 2: we're dealing with Christopher Wolfenberger, you've got him murdering, allegedly 196 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 2: murdering his wife in nineteen ninety nine and cutting her 197 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 2: all up, and her skull shows up on this in 198 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 2: an industrial park area. Well if you actually think, and 199 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 2: then her other body parts show up a couple of 200 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 2: days later. 201 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's only arms and legs. We still don't 202 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: know what happened to her, torso, but then they go away. 203 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: I got to say this right now, tip of the cap, 204 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: Tip of the cap to my good friend Cheryl McCollum. 205 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, she spent a lot of time on 206 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 2: this case. 207 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: She sure did. And I recommend to anybody at this point, 208 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 1: if you get a chance, you need to go listen 209 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 1: to his own seven. It was absolutely amazing, great work 210 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: on Cheryl's part. 211 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 2: Well, you know that Wolfenberger case, Joe, he actually Christopher Wolfenberger, 212 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 2: the husband of Melissa. Yeah, that was a road that 213 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 2: he drove every day to work. He worked right there. 214 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 2: So you've got him basically putting her body in an 215 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 2: area that he. 216 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: Knows, right, And that's one of the things that's interested 217 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: me about that case in particular, is that he worked 218 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: at a glass shop. Well, what do they use at 219 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: glass shops. People don't think about this. They actually use 220 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: cutting tools and they're very fine cutting tools. And so 221 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: you think about our case today with Jimmy, and you 222 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: think about this idea. Did who had access to tools, 223 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: who had the knowledge in order to actually take him apart? 224 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: And where could you do it? Sequestered like this? But 225 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 1: back to the idea of the deposition or remains, Dave, Okay, 226 00:12:59,360 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: if you're. 227 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 2: Did the opposite of what we were talking about, well. 228 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: I think percentage wise, percentage wise okay, if you're thinking, 229 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: because the only thing I could think of is that 230 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: if you're if you're going out to deposit human remains, 231 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 1: dismembered human remains, by the way, in various locations like this, 232 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: you're now upping the probability that you're going to get 233 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:28,319 Speaker 1: caught because you have these things dispersed and so if 234 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: some citizen just comes walking by, you might find one here, 235 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: you might find one there. And I you know, and 236 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: I think, well, maybe the rationale was, well, if we 237 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: put him out all over the place, if we put 238 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: him out all over the place, perhaps they'll think that 239 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:47,319 Speaker 1: these things are not related in some way. And what 240 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: they don't count on, and what many don't count on 241 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: is that in the end, science always tell us the truth. 242 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: Here's the weird thing, Dave. And going back to this 243 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: kind of point of order you brought up a few 244 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: moments ago. If if you go to all the trouble 245 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: to first off kill someone and then go to a 246 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: lot of trouble to dismember them, why are you going 247 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: to roll over on it? And from what you're telling me, 248 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: that's essentially what this woman did. Am I correct? 249 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 2: I'm so amazed at again the effort, the effort it 250 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 2: takes to do everything that Michelina Goodwin did, along with 251 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 2: help from Larry Murphy, apparently that they did to James 252 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 2: and bod Chick. They a gun accidentally fires and kills 253 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 2: the man and he's missing. Those are two separate things. 254 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 2: One we know he's dead, two we know he's missing. 255 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 2: So you got two groups of people, the people who 256 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 2: did the killing. Well, the person who did the killing, 257 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 2: she knows he's dead, and the guy that helped her 258 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 2: with them, he knows he's dead. But you know what 259 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 2: everybody else, James is missing. His family thinks he's missing. 260 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 2: That where did he go? Now? First thing, police do 261 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 2: they pull backgrounds on everybody. They know if you're not 262 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 2: just lost stuff, not just booking in jail and things. 263 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 2: They know. They talk to friends, they talk to relatives. 264 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 2: They know if you have a drug problem, they know 265 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 2: if you have a gambling problem, they know who you are. 266 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 2: The people that are closest to this case, they know 267 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 2: what they're dealing with, and they use this information because 268 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 2: they don't believe what they're being told. Grown people don't 269 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 2: just go missing and drop off the face of the 270 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 2: earth for no reason. If it's out of care. There 271 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 2: are some people who do leave. There are some people 272 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 2: who do not maintain regular contact with their family, and 273 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 2: their family doesn't report them missing. 274 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: There have been a few times in my life when 275 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: I have felt about this. It felt like disappearing, but 276 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: not chosen to do that. 277 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 2: I gotta get away, gotta get away. But in this case, 278 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 2: the family does have contact with James and Borchick on 279 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 2: a fairly regular basis, So when they realize they haven't 280 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 2: talked to him in several days, they've tried to find out. 281 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 2: So they go to his girlfriend Michelina. Where is he 282 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 2: don't know? Haven't seen him? Have you reported him missing? 283 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 2: Have you tried to find him? Nah, we were arguing, 284 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 2: he split up, We were breaking up, any number of things. Okay, 285 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 2: we were breaking up. Oh wait a minute, I remember 286 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 2: he took his work truck. See I told him I 287 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 2: was going to break up with him. So he took 288 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 2: his work drug and he drove off to West Virginia 289 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 2: singing a John Denver songs. He's over there somewhere working. 290 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 2: Look for the work truck. 291 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: You know. 292 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 2: That was the story. We had an argument, we broke up, 293 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 2: he took his work trug and left the state. So 294 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 2: that's what the investigators are left with. They have Micheline, 295 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,360 Speaker 2: a Goodwin and Larry Murphy who were there, and then 296 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 2: they have the missing man, James, the bor chick. The 297 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,880 Speaker 2: story they're told us he is not believable in reality 298 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 2: because you'd be able to find him. If that was 299 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 2: the case, he would be talking to family. If that 300 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 2: was the case, you guys broke up and he left, 301 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 2: the family would know they talked to him. So he 302 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 2: ain't talking to anybody. So the police are going to 303 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 2: look at it a little bit closer, so they start 304 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,239 Speaker 2: leaning on him. Now we're talking about last time he's 305 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 2: seen December seventh, Reported missing December twenty first, right before Christmas. 306 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 2: That's a special time for every family in one way 307 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 2: or another. And they don't know where he is. So 308 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 2: here we are. By the time police have had their 309 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 2: fill of following the false leads and they sit down 310 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 2: with Micheline a goodwin, they're gonna hit her hard. They're 311 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 2: going to really lean because they're not believing her story. Joe, 312 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 2: Can they go into the house and find out out 313 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 2: of a gun's been fired? 314 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: Can they go into a house and find out if 315 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: a gun has been fired? I think that you would 316 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 1: have to be adjacent. Let me put it to you 317 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: this way. Let's say, for instance, and here here's a 318 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 1: good example. If you were standing adjacent to a let's 319 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 1: say a set of curtains, for instance, and you had 320 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 1: an idea that maybe the weapon was a discharged there, 321 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,439 Speaker 1: Maybe some circumstantial evidence came up, maybe some kind of 322 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: spontaneous comment came up. Maybe if it's a discharged there 323 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: and it has gotten into the fabric of the curtain, 324 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: or maybe adjacent to a bed where there's a comforter 325 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: and you knew where to look, maybe you could find 326 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: some remnant. But if a weapon is just merely fired, 327 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 1: it would be really hard to say, yeah, well a 328 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 1: weapon has recently been fired here. 329 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 2: You know, I'm just trying to think of what they 330 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 2: would be saying to her, because a lot of us 331 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 2: know of DNA. We know that this science of the 332 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,160 Speaker 2: forensic sciences have gotten to the point where you feel 333 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 2: like if you were in an elevator and somebody, you know, 334 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 2: somebody disturbed the ambiance, you know, you would be able 335 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 2: to figure out who did it, and by the odor, 336 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 2: I mean you would think these anymore. That's what I 337 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 2: kind of believe when I watch television and movies, It's 338 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 2: like they can figure everything out. They know I was there. 339 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, there are there are certain limitations scientifically, you know, 340 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: but over a period of time, you know, and when 341 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,959 Speaker 1: I say period of time, I'm talking about in pretty 342 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 1: short order. If you're just simply talking about a weapon 343 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: being discharged, it would be very difficult to go back 344 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: and say, yes, a weapon has been discharged in this room. 345 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: You have to have some kind of soot or well 346 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: powdered deposition on the person on clothing, that sort of 347 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,719 Speaker 1: thing to go back and say that, yes, a weapon 348 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:03,120 Speaker 1: was fired, Now, which what weapon was it? And that 349 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: that's key because even you know, you can say that 350 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. You can say I work 351 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: in a munitions factory or something, and you're still going 352 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: to get some kind of residue on you perhaps, And 353 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 1: so it's all relative to the circumstances in that immediate moment. 354 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,679 Speaker 1: But I could have sworn that at some point in 355 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 1: tom this person actually stated that there was an accidental 356 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: discharge of the weapon. 357 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 2: Is that I took them to January eighteenth. They leaned 358 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 2: on her, That's what I was saying. I was thinking 359 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 2: of the things police could tell her. You know, Michelina, 360 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 2: you know we have ways of finding out a gun 361 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 2: was fired here. You know, we know all this. They 362 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 2: knew they had a really good idea, but they didn't 363 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 2: have any proof. They didn't have a body, they didn't 364 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 2: have any evidence, they didn't have anything. Joe, So they 365 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 2: bring her in, they sweat her, and MICHELINI go went 366 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 2: on January eighteenth, th admits here's what happened. We were 367 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,400 Speaker 2: having an argument. Larry tried to involve himself. We told 368 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:12,199 Speaker 2: him to go back downstairs, get away, and so he 369 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 2: knows nothing to tell you. And I was threatened, so 370 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 2: I grabbed a gun. I wasn't gonna shoot him or anything. 371 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 2: I was just doing it to protect myself and I 372 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 2: accidentally the gun went off. I mean, it was just 373 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,199 Speaker 2: such an accident, Joe, I didn't mean to do it. 374 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 2: I'm really sorry. Really well, where did you shoot him? 375 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,120 Speaker 2: Did you hit him in the face? Did you wing him? 376 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 2: Did you you know, oh, I shot him in the back. Okay, 377 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 2: you accidentally shot him in the back and he died 378 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 2: one shot. Did you call nine one one if it 379 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 2: was an accident? Did you pick up the phone and 380 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 2: ask for help? Did you take him to the hunt? 381 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 2: Is an accident? It was an accident. Why didn't you do? 382 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 2: What did you do? 383 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,120 Speaker 1: Because why do you take measures you know, to try 384 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: to say, because that goes to what do they call 385 00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: it a gross indifference or whatever it is, that callous indifference. 386 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: I'm sorry where you just you don't care. You're just 387 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: going to let them, you know, suffer, you know, lying there. 388 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: But love I love it when people say things like, yeah, 389 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 1: the weapon went off by accident. I love that. No. 390 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: And and listen, there there are we're talking about forensics 391 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: relative to this. You know, there are a couple of 392 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: kind of tests that we in the lab not me, 393 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:32,360 Speaker 1: but my colleagues at work in fireums examination otherwise known 394 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: as ballistics. In those sections of crime labs, they will 395 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: actually do test on weapons, uh, to determine the plausibility 396 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: of any particular weapon accidentally discharging. And do you mind 397 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: if I break these down for you, because I'll tell you, 398 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 1: I think people, I think people will be kind of 399 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: interested in it. Uh. And it's it's kind of wild 400 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: stuff when you because we hear these stories all the time, 401 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: and most of the time you hear them associated with 402 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 1: suicides because, as I've mentioned on many occasions, the suicides 403 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 1: outpaced homicides. You know, so you're going to get more 404 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 1: self inflicted gunshot wounds than you will gunshot wounds inflicted 405 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 1: by another. And people will try and families many times say, well, 406 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: he accidentally shot himself. Okay, well how does that happen. Well, 407 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: there's a couple of different tests that are done. First off, 408 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 1: there is a drop test that's actually done so if 409 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: you have a weapon where it is charged, and charging 410 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,400 Speaker 1: a weapon can be safe. For instance, if you think 411 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: about a handgun that has a semi automatic with a 412 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,120 Speaker 1: slide on it. Okay, so you see it on television 413 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:01,639 Speaker 1: where people racked the slide back and it's it's off safety, 414 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: so it's red as dead. Remember, so if the safety 415 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: is red, it means dead. So what they will do 416 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: is they will take the question weapon and they will 417 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: drop it from a height. If the weapon is charged, okay, 418 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: and they will see if merely by dropping that weapon, 419 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: if the firing pin, if the firing pin releases and engages, okay, 420 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: And they'll do that. 421 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 2: In the very time Alec Baldwin testing when he said 422 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 2: the gun just fired, he didn't touch the trigger. They 423 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 2: dropped that gun. 424 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they did a drop test on it, and 425 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: what and so the chances of that happening, they're they're outliers. 426 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 1: It just it doesn't happen. Now, Listen, every weapon, you 427 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 1: can have a production line of weapons. Okay, let's just 428 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: say ABC Gun Corporation makes a particular type of handgun 429 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: platform and they do a run of, say two hundred 430 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,400 Speaker 1: weapons at one time. You can have I have one 431 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: in there that might have a faulty trigger mechanism. You 432 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: might confine it, okay, But nine times out of ten, 433 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: this is just not going to happen. So with that said, 434 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: With that said, the other thing that we that we 435 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: think about traditionally also is trigger pull. So if everybody 436 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: will think about your if you're left or right hand, 437 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: to use your index finger to place it on. You 438 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 1: put your finger pad the end of your index finger, 439 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 1: your finger pad on the trigger itself. And how many 440 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: times do you watch movies and whatnot, Particularly people in military, 441 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: they'll talk about your handling the weapon unsafely if you 442 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: have your finger inside the trigger housing. People that know 443 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 1: how to handle weapons keep their finger outside the trigger housing. 444 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: All right, So you're ready to shoot. And so what 445 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: we do there is actually a weight test. This is 446 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: pretty fascinating. You take the weapon and you charge it. Okay, 447 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: Then you hang the weapon, all right, and you place 448 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: weight on that weapon. And have you ever heard the 449 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: term certain amounts of pounds of pressure that it takes 450 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 1: to engage that trigger. Well, you add weight and that 451 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 1: gives you the number of pounds okay, I won't take yeah, 452 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,640 Speaker 1: that takes to engage the trigger. And so you've heard 453 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: the term say, for instance, a hair trigger, Well, hair 454 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,879 Speaker 1: trigger is not. I think people say that about individuals 455 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: who who will say they're going to fire a weapon, 456 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: and maybe they fired weapons and they'll say the person 457 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: has a hair trigger. It's not the person that has 458 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: a hair trigger in the literal sense, it is the weapon. 459 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,120 Speaker 1: So does it have a light touch? And weapons can 460 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: be actually adjusted to that. You can adjust weapons so 461 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: that it takes less pounds of pull in order to 462 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: initiate that firing sequence. So the lighter the touch, the 463 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: lighter the touch, the fewer pounds it takes to initiate 464 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 1: that firing sequence. So they run through all of these tests. 465 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,919 Speaker 1: So in this particular case, if you have an individual 466 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 1: who states, well, yeah, the weapon accidentally discharged, you've got 467 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: three choices here. Okay, we can say she dropped the 468 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: weapon and the weapon accidentally discharged. Okay, did that happen 469 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: not that we know of. Okay, does the weapon have 470 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: a hair trigger? Well, we would go back and we 471 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: would test the number of pounds of pressure it would 472 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: take being applied to the trigger to get that sequence going. 473 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: Or did she accidentally put her finger inside the trigger guard? Okay, 474 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: after the weapon is charged and then happen to pull 475 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: the trigger initiate the firing sequence. Oh and by the way, 476 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 1: score a lethal shot in his back. And that's dynamically, 477 00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: that's what they're looking at and kind of that's what 478 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: they have to understand and see if that actually works. 479 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 1: But as we know, in most cases like this, a 480 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 1: case of a weapon accidentally discharging is a red herring 481 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: at best. All right, Dave got a proposition for you. 482 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: All Right, I'm game, be very careful before you make 483 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: that statement, particularly in regardless to what I'm about to say. 484 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: What would it I'll say? Okay, let me bear the 485 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: burden here. Okay, I'm the perpetrator, all right, your old 486 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: buddy Joe Scott, I'm the perpetrator. If I'm the perpetrator 487 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: and you're aware that I have just quote unquote accidentally 488 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: shot somebody. First off, two part question here might be 489 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: a two part with multiple subsections. Hang on, you know me, 490 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: I'm rather verbose. So okay, so let's say I accidentally 491 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: shoot somebody. All right. First off, if you're in the 492 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: same structure with me and you hear the report of 493 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: a firearm going off and you rush upstairs, it's not 494 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: just me, it's you, and we've got a person on 495 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: the floor, either dead or dying. Why aren't you saying 496 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: we got to call an ambulance and get somebody over here. Secondly, 497 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 1: you've bought into the idea that maybe he's dead. I 498 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: don't know, can't confirm it, or maybe us maybe it's 499 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: an accident. We got to call the cops. He's dead. 500 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: We can prove this. Or hey, Dave, will you go 501 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: out to the shed and grab the axe, the hatchet, 502 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 1: maybe a soft I need one, and help me take 503 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: a part this person's body. Oh and by the bye, 504 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: help me deposit it over a two county area. Are 505 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: you a game? I think that's the question. What what? 506 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 2: What? My response is, Okay, Joe, it's an accident. Let's 507 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 2: just call the police and get them over here and 508 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 2: let them deal with the poor old James here, because 509 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 2: you know James is dead. He's he's your boyfriend. But anyway, 510 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 2: the bottom line here is that you got a dead 511 00:30:57,920 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 2: guy on the floor. You were the two people in 512 00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 2: the room, and I was downstairs because you wouldn't let 513 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 2: me help in the argument. And now you want me 514 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 2: to go and chop up the body with you. Okay, sure, no. 515 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 1: I gotta This is the thing I've got to ask 516 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: in regards to Mitchellina good ones and then Larry Murphy, right, 517 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: how how committed of a friendship do you have to 518 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: be in just go with me here. How committed of 519 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: a friendship do you have to be in here to say, yeah, man, 520 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: I'm all on board for this task. I will sit 521 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 1: here and I will undertake this gruesome duty with you 522 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: to make sure what you know, what kind of reward 523 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: are you offering this man that he is literally going 524 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 1: to run the risk of spending the rest of his 525 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 1: life in prison? I mean, what do you have over 526 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: his head? And also, are you in pair in some manner? 527 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: Are you mentally impaired? Are you maybe uh drug addled 528 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: in some way? I don't. 529 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought that. 530 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 1: Curious about that. 531 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 2: We find all this out by going back a minute 532 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 2: when we were talking about Micheline A. Goodwin sits down 533 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 2: with the police. They've gotten no information really because there's 534 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 2: only two people that know where James uh Narbacheck is Nabucheck. 535 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 2: They are only two people and that is Micheline A. 536 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 2: Goodwin and Larry Murphy. There are only two people that know. 537 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 2: All the police know is the guy's missing. That's and 538 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 2: he's an adult. The Michelina said he grabbed the company 539 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 2: truck and went out of state. We were breaking up. So, 540 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 2: based on that limited information that the police have, they 541 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 2: really only can go after these two individuals, and they 542 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 2: break Michelina first, and that's how they find out. It's 543 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 2: not like the police were investigating and knew that his 544 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 2: body was somewhere other than the house. Police didn't know that. 545 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 2: They just knew they couldn't find him anywhere. And so 546 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 2: it's Michelina Goodwin who actually then tells police, okay, we 547 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 2: cut him up. Wait a minute, we you and mister Murphy, 548 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 2: you chopped him up. Where's his body? And so she 549 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 2: takes them to the body parts and that's where we know. 550 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 2: They're strewn in remote areas of two different counties, which 551 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 2: leads you to believe they chopped him up in small 552 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 2: enough bags like doggie bags. I'm guessing. I'm not thinking 553 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 2: that they didn't roll them up in a piece of carpet. 554 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 2: And you know, do those they put him in bags? 555 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 2: I guess, Joe, Yeah. 556 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: Generally what will happen is that they will be placed 557 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: into individual bags like this, or wrapped in in some 558 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: type of sort of paper. And on a side here, 559 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: I got to tell you this, many people might not 560 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: be aware of this. Did you know that years ago 561 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:05,719 Speaker 1: back in a morgue, we didn't use body backs in 562 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: many cases. I know the first morgue I ever worked in, 563 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,800 Speaker 1: we actually used butcher paper. You remember a butcher paper. 564 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 1: It is brown and it was on a huge role 565 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,839 Speaker 1: and we would wrap bodies in it. And it's made 566 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: in such a manner. I'm not a paper expert, but 567 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,280 Speaker 1: it's made in such a manner that it would absorb blood. 568 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: And so I've had body parts that have been wrapped 569 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: actually in newspaper, and I've had body parts that are 570 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 1: wrapped in plastic over the course of my career, or 571 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 1: I have seen them as a result of cases that 572 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 1: I was assisting in our autopsy in where they're brought. 573 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: You know, they're brought in one of my colleagues work 574 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:50,720 Speaker 1: case as the investigator, and so you you think about 575 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: this and how does that conversation go in the vehicle 576 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 1: as well? You know, so you're writing about all through 577 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 1: the countryside a place that you're fromailiar with. Remember you're 578 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 1: not going they're not driving down to the shore, you 579 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: know in Maryland where you know in an environment, say 580 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 1: if you go to a watery environment and up there, 581 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 1: what are they really known for in Maryland and grotesque here. 582 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,839 Speaker 1: But you've got a lot of wetlands. But you've also 583 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,839 Speaker 1: got blue crabs. We have them in South Louisiana. Guess 584 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 1: what they love. They're scavengers. And so you're going to 585 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 1: deposit body parts all about the place like this, and 586 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:43,280 Speaker 1: you're riding around trying to make this decision. Well, gee, 587 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,400 Speaker 1: that looks like a good spot. Let's drive on a 588 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,839 Speaker 1: little further. That looks like a good spot. And how 589 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 1: long would this take? How long would it take? Because 590 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,359 Speaker 1: you know, this victim is not a small man. He's 591 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 1: not a small man. And so once you get passed 592 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: and I go back to to this case involving Melissa Woffenberger, 593 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: the you know, they still don't have her torso. Torso 594 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 1: is the most difficult element of the body to get 595 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: rid of, and particularly if you're trying to dissect it out. 596 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,759 Speaker 1: If I don't know if folks know this, did you 597 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 1: know that your body, particularly torso, is broken down into quadrants. 598 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 1: So when you're you have quadrants that are generally on 599 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 1: the front of your body, and if you take an 600 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: anatomy clash, you know you look at say the top 601 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 1: left quadrant, top right quadrant, bottom right quadrant, bottom left quadrant, 602 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 1: and you can also break that down abdominantly, so you 603 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,839 Speaker 1: have to factor that into the equation as well as 604 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:57,800 Speaker 1: how are you going to essentially parse the body up? 605 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: And it becomes a g when undertaking where they did, 606 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: this would have been super saturated with blood. 607 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 2: Okay, let me stop you there, because that's what I 608 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 2: had to ask Joe. We have this, We have the 609 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 2: police with no information until they sit down with Mischelina 610 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,879 Speaker 2: Goodwin and she admits to what they've done. They were 611 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 2: not you know, the police are not allowed to just 612 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,919 Speaker 2: come in your house on a fishing expedition, and there's 613 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 2: a real good reason for that, okay, But in this case, 614 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:32,880 Speaker 2: they could not come up with a good reason to 615 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 2: get a search warrant to go into that house because 616 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 2: they obviously would have been able to find blood based 617 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 2: on where she said he was shot. 618 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, and hopefully Nancy doesn't get mad at me about this, 619 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 1: and you know she calls me up saying, Joe, Scott, 620 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:54,960 Speaker 1: just Scott. But do you know constitutionally, the Supreme Court 621 00:37:55,040 --> 00:38:01,440 Speaker 1: has ruled there is no exception, there is no exception 622 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: to your right's privacy even when it comes to homicide investigation. 623 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 1: The only time okay, this is how this would work. 624 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,879 Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought this up. So the only time that, say, 625 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 1: for instance, you can't go searching in what to refer 626 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,800 Speaker 1: to as hidden places. You have to have a specific 627 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 1: search warrant. So if a police officer walks into a 628 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: house to ascertain the safety, almost like a welfare check, 629 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:32,399 Speaker 1: like you're walking into a house, if they see blood, say, 630 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: seeping out from beneath the bottom of a closet, they 631 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:41,879 Speaker 1: can open that door for the purposes of seeing if 632 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 1: anyone is in there they need help, And if they 633 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 1: find a dead body, they still cannot They still cannot 634 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: begin to work the scene. They have to back out 635 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 1: of the house after it's secured and made safe and 636 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 1: make sure no one else is you know, in harm's way, 637 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,400 Speaker 1: search one, and then go back in and process the scene. 638 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 2: Okay, because if they start searching right then. 639 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,719 Speaker 1: It's all it's all thrown out. Yeah, it's you have 640 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 1: to have a good And there's multiple court cases that 641 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,839 Speaker 1: go to this point, and I could rattle them off. 642 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,520 Speaker 1: I actually teach them at the police cademy every year 643 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 1: about this. Particularly. There's really no exceptions. 644 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,080 Speaker 2: Whenever I get into an argument with somebody about this 645 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,880 Speaker 2: and I'm was like, look, the reason the law is there. 646 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:33,439 Speaker 2: What if there's a police officer that doesn't like Dave 647 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 2: mac yep and he just decides I don't like what 648 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 2: he says on the show I'm and he comes into 649 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:44,400 Speaker 2: my house finding a reason to arrest me. They can't 650 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,560 Speaker 2: do that. That's why it's not a reasonable thing. You 651 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:49,280 Speaker 2: have to go before a judge. You have to write 652 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 2: down probable cause, what do you think you're going to find? 653 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 2: Where do you think you're going to find it? Where 654 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 2: you're going to look? The judge reads all that and 655 00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:59,719 Speaker 2: based on the evidence, that's where they say, Okay, go ahead, 656 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 2: off are going there and get what you got to get. 657 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,560 Speaker 2: But in this case, yeah, that's what I'm saying, they 658 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 2: didn't have it. They could not until Michelini Goodwin sat 659 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,960 Speaker 2: down with Police Joe. They couldn't go in there apparently 660 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:15,240 Speaker 2: because they didn't know. They had assumptions. That was about 661 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:16,960 Speaker 2: all they had for a month. 662 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 1: Well, what's fascinating about this case, Dave, is that does 663 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,239 Speaker 1: that rule apply to the body parts? Where she is 664 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 1: taking you out to a location and let's just say 665 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,920 Speaker 1: they they threw one of the elements of the body 666 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:38,240 Speaker 1: into the ditch. Okay, immediately adjason. It's in a public area, 667 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,560 Speaker 1: it's in plane view, which is there's actually a plane 668 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 1: view doctrine. They're not going into someone's house. You've got 669 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,719 Speaker 1: an alleged perpetrator who's confessing to this. They said, Yeah, 670 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,920 Speaker 1: that's the foot right there, that's the hand right there. 671 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,040 Speaker 1: You know, that's the head right there. Do they need 672 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,400 Speaker 1: a warrant to collect that? Probably not. They're going to 673 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,920 Speaker 1: process and just to be safe, they might get a 674 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 1: warrant at that point in time. But if you're talking 675 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,880 Speaker 1: to like a physical structure where the dismemberment actually took place, 676 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:14,480 Speaker 1: then that that's a completely different kettle of fish because 677 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:19,040 Speaker 1: you have you have an expectation of privacy within your 678 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 1: own home. So they would if they're developing this information 679 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,280 Speaker 1: and her confession would be enough to develop a warrant 680 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,240 Speaker 1: off of and they could go back and process the scene. 681 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 1: They're going to be looking for remnants of blood, maybe 682 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 1: impact areas that keep using the term which is horrible 683 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,279 Speaker 1: chopping shopping in this case before Joe ye know and 684 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,440 Speaker 1: it's it's it's stated over and over that. If you're 685 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:47,640 Speaker 1: facilitating chopping up a body per se, are there going 686 00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:49,799 Speaker 1: to be underlying strike marks, Say, if you're doing it 687 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,760 Speaker 1: on a floor, whether it's a wooden floor, stone floor, 688 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,960 Speaker 1: vinyl floor, whatever, is there associated blood? Blood evidence is 689 00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,560 Speaker 1: left behind with this as well, and that's certainly something 690 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,640 Speaker 1: to consu or in this particular. 691 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,440 Speaker 2: Case, you know, we had the case out in California, 692 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:07,120 Speaker 2: have the agent son, you know, the super powerful agent 693 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:11,160 Speaker 2: guy whose son is accused of killing his wife and 694 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:15,759 Speaker 2: dumping her torso in the trash dumpster, and that you know, 695 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:17,759 Speaker 2: he had some he had hired some workers to take 696 00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:21,040 Speaker 2: these bags away and they like they opened it up 697 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 2: and like there's body parts and he's lots a mannequin. 698 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:28,520 Speaker 2: It's Halloween. In this case, the police get the information 699 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:32,600 Speaker 2: from Michelini goodwhen she tells them we took care of this. 700 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,000 Speaker 2: Now they go to these different areas and get the bag. 701 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:40,080 Speaker 2: She leads them to these remote areas. Yes, when because 702 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,800 Speaker 2: when we look at a map and you see a line, 703 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:49,440 Speaker 2: here's x Y's here's Charles County, here's Mabel County, they 704 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,359 Speaker 2: mean something because they're different jurisdictions. For police oftentimes do 705 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:55,440 Speaker 2: you have to like go out there and you know, 706 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,839 Speaker 2: bring out the compass and you know, a road crew 707 00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,480 Speaker 2: to determine is this in the right this county or not? 708 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:03,520 Speaker 2: I mean if it crosses over into a different county, 709 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,400 Speaker 2: I got a bag, I got a foot over here, 710 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 2: and I've got an arm over here in a different county. 711 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 2: Do I have to call the police in all these 712 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:10,800 Speaker 2: different areas? 713 00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,120 Speaker 1: Well? It's advisable, and sheriffs were out there. However, do 714 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,200 Speaker 1: you know who actually processes scene? The Maryland State Police. Okay, 715 00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:21,160 Speaker 1: so they have state they have statewide jurisdiction. Okay, But 716 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,120 Speaker 1: to your point, and I think this is kind of fascinating, 717 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,200 Speaker 1: what they would do in a case like this is 718 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:33,200 Speaker 1: that they're going to put markers down with every bit 719 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:39,000 Speaker 1: of evidence. It's particularly in the deposition areas, and they're 720 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,840 Speaker 1: going to geographically map this area. And it's you know, 721 00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,319 Speaker 1: it's quite striking. You know. I think I think any 722 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,319 Speaker 1: of us can identify with this if you're just say 723 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,920 Speaker 1: you're looking, I don't know. I think I hate to 724 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,600 Speaker 1: reduce it down to this, but say you're trying to 725 00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,480 Speaker 1: buy a new home and you go to one of 726 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,319 Speaker 1: these things like Zillow, or one of these things, and 727 00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:01,960 Speaker 1: you're looking, well, what area of this particular geographic location 728 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,160 Speaker 1: our most houses selling in and you look for that 729 00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:10,000 Speaker 1: concentrated area. Take that and apply it to deposition of 730 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:14,319 Speaker 1: body parts, or if you're looking at serial killer, which 731 00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,719 Speaker 1: this has been done for a long time. Wow, you 732 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,160 Speaker 1: look at where bodies have been deposited all of the place, 733 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:22,239 Speaker 1: and people try to find these patterns and things, and 734 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:26,400 Speaker 1: sometimes they marry up with common thoroughfares that a suspect 735 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,040 Speaker 1: might take to go do things, say if you're going 736 00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:33,000 Speaker 1: grocery shopping, or if the person is dealing drugs, for instance, 737 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,560 Speaker 1: areas that you would might have some kind of peripheral 738 00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:41,080 Speaker 1: knowledge of. But you know, Dave, it's this case is 739 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,880 Speaker 1: certainly different in the fact that you've got two perpetrators 740 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:50,440 Speaker 1: in this case and they essentially both roll over. What 741 00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:58,080 Speaker 1: exactly was Larry Murphy his part to this? Did he 742 00:44:58,239 --> 00:44:59,680 Speaker 1: wind up being charged? 743 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,440 Speaker 2: He was charged, Joe. He was charged with first degree murder, 744 00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:07,200 Speaker 2: second degree murder, burial or disposal of a body in 745 00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:11,520 Speaker 2: an authorized place, and accessory after the fact, murder. And 746 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,400 Speaker 2: one thing that came out of all of this, and 747 00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:19,399 Speaker 2: I'm still a little stunned the mess, just that they 748 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:21,840 Speaker 2: had it left behind me. I know they tried to 749 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,759 Speaker 2: clean it up to cover their tracks, but Joe, it 750 00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,720 Speaker 2: had to just have been horrible. Is there any way 751 00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,080 Speaker 2: to get yes it clean after that? 752 00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:34,080 Speaker 1: You can't. You can't get rid of it. In totality. 753 00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:43,400 Speaker 1: You can't make it disappear, no matter how much scrubbing 754 00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:49,200 Speaker 1: you do, no matter how much raking of dirt, no 755 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,359 Speaker 1: matter how much painting you do, perhaps or laying down 756 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:59,560 Speaker 1: of carpet. But I do know this, I do know this. 757 00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:07,839 Speaker 1: Both Goodwin and Murphy have, at least for the time being, 758 00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:18,600 Speaker 1: disappeared from freedom. They're now incarcerated Mitchellina Goodwin was actually 759 00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:24,319 Speaker 1: charged and convicted and is now currently serving sixty one 760 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:31,720 Speaker 1: years in the Maryland State Penitentiary. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, 761 00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,560 Speaker 1: and this is Bodybacks here.