1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,160 Speaker 1: Even I grew up in South Texas, but in school 2 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: we're never taught that the underground railroad had a southern route, 3 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 1: or that June teenth has been celebrated in Nacimiento, a 4 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: community in northern Mexico, since eighteen sixty five. In this 5 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: special episode of Hungry for History, we'll talk about freedom, fighting, 6 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: June teenth, and a cookbook. We'll welcome doctor Madia Hammock, 7 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 1: a scholar and historian whose work bridges histories of liberation 8 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: and abolition, back to the show, along with Wendy Goodlow 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: and Corina too Raba of the Seminole Indian Scout Cemetery Association. 10 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 2: My name is Eva Longoria and I am mate Remezrajon, 11 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 2: and welcome to Hungry for History, a podcast that explores 12 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 2: our past and present through food. 13 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: On every episode, we'll talk about the history of some 14 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: of our favorite dishes, ingredients, and beverages from our culture. 15 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 2: So make yourself at home. I ween Brecho. Like we've 16 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 2: talked about many times here on the show, a cook 17 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 2: book can tell us so much about a community, and 18 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 2: might think you brought a new one that you wanted 19 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:04,039 Speaker 2: to share. 20 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: I came across the history that had never heard before. 21 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: And this is a story of the Black Seminoles and 22 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 1: their Mexican descendants, the Moscogos, and this really interesting cookbook 23 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: that Restario Moscowa so Guahilas is one of the states 24 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: that borders Texas. 25 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 2: And so who are the Black Seminoles. I've never heard 26 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 2: of the Black Seminoles because is it the Seminoles like 27 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 2: the Seminole Indians? But these are the Black Seminoles. Yes, yes, 28 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 2: they're related. So the Seminoles are the descendants of many 29 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 2: different Native Americans who lived in Florida and Georgia and Alabama, 30 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 2: parts of South Carolina and Tennessee and Mississippi for centuries. Right, 31 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 2: these are the Native. 32 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: Americans that lived in these areas for centuries and centuries, 33 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: and they lived as different tribes. When the Spaniards, who 34 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: were who the Spaniards were the first Europeans to enter 35 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: North America arrived in the early fifteen hundreds. These groups 36 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: of people share the same linguistic family and shared many 37 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: of the same belief systems, and so over the last 38 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: I don't know, five hundred years or so, the survivors 39 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: of all of these tribes grouped together in Florida, around 40 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: a core of sin Marones, which were refugees from the 41 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: Spanish Florida missions, and they are called Seminoles. The first 42 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,519 Speaker 1: English speakers, the first Anglos you know to this area 43 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 1: in Florida in the seventeen seventies called them seminoles. And 44 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: the word comes from the Spanish word cimron, which means 45 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: wild one. And so the black Seminoles or a group 46 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: of people with African and Native American ancestry that were 47 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 1: made up of free Africans, escape slaves and Seminole people. 48 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 2: So moscovo, which is a Spanish word for descendants of 49 00:02:54,639 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 2: black Seminoles who escaped the brutality of the Antebellum and 50 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 2: then they made their way into Mexico through this little 51 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 2: known southern route of the underground railroad, which was across 52 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 2: our beloved Rio Grande, and they created free communities in 53 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 2: northern Mexico. And this word Muscogo, it comes from Muscogi, 54 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 2: which was a language spoken by Seminoles and creeks in Florida. 55 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 2: And this is the crazy part that the Mexican government 56 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 2: gave them land and refuge in the state of Goahwila. 57 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 2: It's so crazy, I mean, that's amazing. It is. 58 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: It's amazing. So moscows are descendants of freedom fighters and 59 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: they have African, Mexican and indigenous roots. We had the 60 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: opportunities to speak with doctor Maria Stramac, a Mexican scholar 61 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: of Black liberation in North America. She gives us details 62 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: on what the journey across the Rio Grande River would 63 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: have been like and argues that every enslaved person was 64 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: a freedom fighter. 65 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 3: My name is Marito sar Hammock, and I am a 66 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 3: scholar of a Mexican scholar of Black liberation in North America, 67 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 3: and I am trying to recover or help recover what 68 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 3: I argue is the experiences but also the legacies, the 69 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 3: intellectual and physical legacies of black women who engineered channels 70 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 3: of liberation to Mexican spaces. I always argue that everyone, 71 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 3: every person in slave, was a freedom fighter. Freedom seeking 72 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 3: implies something cyclical. Someone who's seeking for something may may 73 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 3: not find it. But people who were enslave were always navigating, 74 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 3: and if not navigating or finding, they were creating ways 75 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 3: to be free. At the very many levels that freedom 76 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 3: materialized for them in Mexico or the US, or across 77 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 3: the borderlands. So freedom seekers were freedom fighters as well, 78 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 3: and many of them did claim their freedom on Mexican soil. 79 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 3: So they were bringing stuff, they were planning their journeys, 80 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 3: they were tracing actually where they were going through who 81 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 3: they may encounter. And I encounter records where they are 82 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 3: bringing ham, they're bringing bacon, they're bringing fruits, peaches, so 83 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 3: they can sell them along the way if they need money, 84 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 3: or they can barter for safe passage. And so I 85 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 3: do find that through the records. But also other records 86 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 3: that I found once they crossed the river into Mexico. 87 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 3: So there is a record of a black Seminole woman 88 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 3: describing during the WPI narratives they were into a lot 89 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 3: of people, elderly people were interviewed and she describes crossing 90 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 3: the river with seven hundred other people. The women and 91 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 3: children cross first and the men cross after, and so 92 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 3: she describes that though the feeling, her feeling as she 93 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 3: was crossing on these flatboats across the Rio Grande, and 94 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 3: that you know, she kept hearing the children cry, and 95 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 3: it's a very powerful story. But once on Mexican soul, 96 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 3: you also get records where people were, you know, they 97 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,039 Speaker 3: made it there and they had no food, and so 98 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 3: so there is one record that I found were the 99 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 3: people in the town I think it was mont Globa, 100 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 3: or it must have been the town of Gerretro, one 101 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 3: of those two, when they arrived there. There's a group 102 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 3: of people that arrived and they didn't have any food. 103 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 3: They hadn't eaten in a few days, and so the 104 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 3: townspeople collected money to buy them food and buy them 105 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 3: shoes because they were also bare food, and give them 106 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 3: money to keep going because they didn't want to stay 107 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 3: in that town. They wanted to keep going further as 108 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 3: far away as they could so that slave hunters wouldn't 109 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 3: go and kidnap them, because that was also something that 110 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 3: was happening. 111 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: We always talk about how everything is intermixed, all of 112 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 1: these cultures that we all exist, you know, together, and 113 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: this cookbook is super interesting in that sense. It includes 114 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: food really commonly associated with Americans, how things like potato 115 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: salad and pasta salad, also typical Northern Mexican foods like 116 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: gaviriito and machacado, but lots of stews, lots of galdos, 117 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: lots of off The cookbook has three different kinds of 118 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 1: menudo there's chicharron like porkskin ti taron but also ti 119 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: taron de viceras, so internal organs of pigs and goats 120 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: and they and they make ti tarones out of these organs, 121 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: so they use every single part of the animal. 122 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 2: Oh wow. 123 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: So they use a wooden mortar and pestle, so instead 124 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: of the typical volcanic stone you know morcagete that we're 125 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: familiar with, they use like a big one, like it's 126 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: a huge wooden mortar that's carved from a trunk of 127 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: the tree, and then a really long pestle that's almost 128 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: like a baseball bat, and that's what they use as 129 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: a morteo. So they break down corn. 130 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 2: Seems very difficult because it's the volcanic stone that really 131 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 2: gets you to grind stuff. I don't know how they 132 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 2: could have done that with this wood wood. 133 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, there are women that have donated that have shared 134 00:07:55,720 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: their recipes. But they're two really interesting dishes is that 135 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: I've never heard of, I don't know, something called which 136 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: is this white corn at torle and te boon, which 137 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: is sweet potato bread. And these are traditional foods. 138 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 2: From the Afro Seminole culture. 139 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, the words themselves come from this Afro Seminole language. 140 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 2: But also sweet potato bread is not I've ever seen 141 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 2: that in Mexico either potato bread. I mean it would 142 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 2: be camote and I've never heard of me either. 143 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 1: No, it's like sweet potato. They mix it with larred 144 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: with sugar, with clove, and with wheat flour. But they 145 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: also they make it in a metate. 146 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 2: After the break, we hear from Windy Goodlow and Corina 147 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 2: Torobal Harrington of the Seminole Indian Scout Cemetery Association. 148 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: We've got so much more, so don't go anywhere. Windy 149 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: god of the Seminole Indian Scouts Cemetery Association talks about 150 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: how Africans who were brought to America enslaved possessed a 151 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: wide range of engineering and scientific skills. 152 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 4: My name is Wendy Goodlow. I am the secretary of 153 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 4: the Seminal Indian Scouts Cemetery Association. Something that I wish 154 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 4: was taught though that within slavery there were certain people 155 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 4: that were targeted for their skills. People from West Africa, 156 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:33,679 Speaker 4: specifically Sierra Leona surrounding countries were rice growers, and they 157 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 4: weren't just simply growing rice. They were engineering rice. They 158 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 4: were figuring out conditions. If the conditions weren't good, they 159 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 4: would figure out how to make the conditions better so 160 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 4: if the rice would grow, and you know, their future 161 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 4: colonizers and slavers learned this, and so they specifically targeted 162 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 4: people from sier Leone to be brought to the low 163 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 4: country because the conditions were similar and they wanted rice 164 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 4: to be grown there. So these people were targeted, and 165 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 4: they had figured out methods to filter salt water in 166 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 4: order to make it, you know, where rest would grow. 167 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 4: But I think that's amazing. I feel like if I 168 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:17,479 Speaker 4: had learned that when I was a kid, my perspective 169 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 4: on what slavery was would have been so different because 170 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 4: we're given this picture of what an enslaved person was, 171 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 4: and it just blew my mind because these were highly 172 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 4: intelligent people, engineers, scientists, you know, not just you know, 173 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 4: someone's property. 174 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 2: For the National Geographic hundreds of enslaved people fled from 175 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 2: southern plantations to live among the seminoles in Florida Territory 176 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 2: during mid lighteen eighteenth century. Spain granted freedom to enslaved 177 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 2: people who escaped to Florida under their rule but the 178 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 2: US did not recognize this agreement. 179 00:10:56,040 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 4: The Black Seminoles descend from these people. Primarily, these people 180 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 4: who were taken from West Africa brought to the Low Country, 181 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 4: which is South Carolina, into Georgia. Instead of going north 182 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,079 Speaker 4: as we were taught in school, they went south into 183 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 4: what was at that time Spanish territory. The first earliest 184 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,719 Speaker 4: records of people running into Florida for their freedom was 185 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 4: around sixteen eighty seven. It was about sixteen ninety three 186 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 4: when the King of Spain issued an ed it saying, 187 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 4: you know, if you want freedom, come to Florida and 188 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 4: help us protect Florida. And what we'll do is we'll 189 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 4: give you arms, and all you have to do is 190 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 4: convert to Catholicism. And then after a while they didn't 191 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 4: even require them to convert because it was more important 192 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 4: for their to be bodies. The Seminoles are essentially creaks. 193 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 4: What it happened was there was a schism happening between 194 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:00,320 Speaker 4: two groups of Creeks, which are known as the Upper 195 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 4: and Lower Creeks. The Lower Creeks were taking on more 196 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 4: Eurocentric sensibilities, and one of those was slavery. They were 197 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 4: starting to enslave people the upper Creeks didn't agree with this, 198 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 4: so there was a fight. The lower Creeks pushed down 199 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 4: into Florida. So now we have that influx of Creeks 200 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 4: coming in and because of them running away from their group, 201 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 4: there was this word that came about. So linguists have 202 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:33,479 Speaker 4: said that the word for seminole comes from the Spanish cimarron, 203 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 4: and it was also applied to the Maroons. So from 204 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 4: this one word, it was a Spanish word that was 205 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 4: broken up and used in sort of bastardized into the 206 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 4: Creek language to become civiynol. And then it was also 207 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,319 Speaker 4: used to describe people who had run away who were 208 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 4: of African descent, and that's room. So essentially both groups 209 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 4: were seen as runaways and once they gain into Florida, 210 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 4: they learned to coexist with each other, and very soon 211 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 4: after that they will be fighting what's known as the 212 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 4: Three Seminal Wars. So the most significant war is the 213 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 4: Second Seminal War. And during that war, the United States 214 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 4: sees that they are fighting a very formidable opponent, and 215 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 4: General Thomas Jessup says, this is not an Indian war, 216 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 4: this is a Negro war because of how fiercely the 217 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 4: Black Seminoles and other Maroons, because there were other Maroons 218 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,079 Speaker 4: who didn't necessarily join the Black Seminoles because of how 219 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 4: fiercely they fought, and he realized that he needed to 220 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 4: divide and conquer. So this war took place between eighteen 221 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 4: thirty five and eighteen forty two, so we've skipped, you know, 222 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:48,719 Speaker 4: a lot ahead in history. But he realized that if 223 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 4: he didn't come to some kind of peace agreement with 224 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,199 Speaker 4: the Black Seminoles, that the war would never end. So 225 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 4: he negotiated with three of the Black Seminole leaders, one 226 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 4: of them was John Horse, and they eventually agreed that 227 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 4: if they would be promised freedom when they got to Oklahoma, 228 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 4: that they would go. But the problem is, and you know, 229 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 4: it's a sad refrain within the Black Seminoles story, that 230 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 4: they will honor whatever promise they have to make, but 231 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 4: the entity making the promise to them doesn't ever honor 232 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 4: their side of the agreement. So the Black Siminals agree 233 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 4: to surrender, but there is a third semental war that 234 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 4: happens with the remaining people there in Florida, and they 235 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 4: continue to fight and eventually, you know, won their freedom. 236 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 4: They are unconquered, and that's the Seminole trid that we 237 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 4: know today. So there was a group that stayed in Florida, 238 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 4: and in eighteen twenty one there was actually a group 239 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 4: that went into the Bahamas. So this there was a 240 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 4: separate group that went straight into the Bahamas. So there's 241 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 4: a group of black seminals in the Bahamas as well. 242 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 4: So this group led by John Horset, they'd go into Oklahoma, 243 00:14:58,040 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 4: and as soon as they get there, they realized that 244 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 4: they were promised wasn't going to happen. They were first 245 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 4: of all, they were rice growers. They grew corn, they 246 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 4: had access to wild game. You know, Florida was its 247 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 4: own paradise for them. Oklahoma was a dust bowl. It 248 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 4: was barren. You couldn't grow anything. You had to rely 249 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 4: on rations from the government to eat and they weren't 250 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 4: used to that. So already just their food ways had 251 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 4: completely changed. On top of that, there were slave catchers 252 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 4: that were in the territory that were a constant threat. 253 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 4: On top of that, there were the creeks who they 254 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 4: didn't get along with all those decades ago, who were 255 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 4: their neighbors now. So the conditions were not favorable for them. 256 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 4: This was not going to be a place that they 257 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 4: could call home. So while some of them stayed, there 258 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 4: was a group in eighteen forty nine that decided the 259 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 4: best course of action if they wanted to survive was 260 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 4: to leave Oklahoma and take a seven hundred mile year 261 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 4: long trip our journey trek into Mexico. And that's what 262 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 4: they did. It took them a whole year, and the 263 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 4: group was led again by John Horst, and this time 264 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 4: by Wildcat, who was the leader of the Seminoles. So 265 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 4: there was a group of Cinnamols and black Seminoles that 266 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 4: went and they arrived in Mexico and they presented themselves 267 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 4: to the Mexican government. Their exploits in Florida had already 268 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 4: preceded them, so they would become what was essentially Mexico's 269 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 4: first border patrol. They would help to keep the border safe. 270 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 4: And Mexico is actually the only government or entity that 271 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 4: actually kept their promise. In exchange for their service, they 272 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 4: were given land that they still own today, which is Nacimento. 273 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: So Mexico had officially abolished slavery by this time. Yeah, 274 00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: in eighteen twenty nine, and in eighteen fifty seven, Mexico 275 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,640 Speaker 1: amended its constitution to reflect that all people are born free. 276 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: So this cookbook, the Mescogo Cookbook, it was written authored 277 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: by a woman named barlinad Moral that there's a part 278 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: of the cookbook where she mentions John Horse Huanga Bay, 279 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,439 Speaker 1: the historical leader of the Moscovos. It is said to 280 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: have been very kind and generous and would sometimes kill 281 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 1: a cow or a pig, cook it and invite the 282 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: community to eat. And he is said to have said, 283 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: you were all my children. So he was a good guy. Wow, 284 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: he was a good guy. But he was a black 285 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: Seminole leader and one of the most successful freedom fighters 286 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: in American history. He was born into slavery in Florida 287 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: in eighteen twelve, and he was an African American, Native 288 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: American and Spanish descent. John Horse led enslaved people to 289 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 1: freedom on the underground railroad to Mexico, and so in 290 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: his lifetime he fought as a sub chief during the 291 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: Second Seminole War. He served as a decorated officer in 292 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: the Mexican military. He met to president, and he spent 293 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: most of his life on a quest to secure a 294 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 1: free homeland for his people. In Mexico. 295 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 4: I think where we're so lucky to have this time. 296 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 4: You know, we've been very lucky to have our ancestors 297 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 4: who left behind, even though we won't ever know everything 298 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 4: about them, they left little nuggets, and we've been very 299 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 4: lucky to be able to have the desire to want 300 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 4: to know more about who we are, where we come from. 301 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 4: And you know, I'm just excited about what more time 302 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 4: will give us. You know, what other answers and people 303 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 4: will rEFInd with the time that we have. And I think, 304 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,439 Speaker 4: you know, anybody who was afraid of, you know, being black, 305 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 4: we're in a whole different time now. People are proud 306 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 4: of their mixture who they are, So I think it'll 307 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 4: only you know, I just hope it gets better with time. 308 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 2: Don't go anywhere. History will be right back after the break. 309 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: This community where the all of the recipes are from, 310 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 1: the Recitaria Moscogo is from a community called Nacimiento de 311 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: los Negros, which literally it's sort of the birth, and 312 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 1: this community is where many of these Moscogos settled in. 313 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: This area of Nasimiento de los Negros has been celebrating 314 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: Juneteenth since eighteen sixty four and the sosq and the 315 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: te tepun. These are festive foods that are served at 316 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: the June teenth festival. It's been a federal holiday in 317 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: the US since twenty twenty one, but June Teeth has 318 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: been celebrated since eighteen sixty five in Nasimiento. And so 319 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 1: here is Corinat hearing the treasure of the Seminole Indian 320 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 1: Scout Cemetery Association and founder of La Casa Lauta Black 321 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 1: Seminoles and Nacimiento reminiscing of our trips to Nacimento every 322 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: summer to celebrate La Fies. The food's consumed and also 323 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,439 Speaker 1: how the Moscow was are about much more than their food. 324 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 5: I've been going back and forth to Mexico since I 325 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 5: was little. That's you know, that's where we had our 326 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 5: summer vacations. And so our vacations were going back to Mexico, 327 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 5: especially June nineteenth for the Negro or the Los Negros 328 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 5: that we caught it. And I never knew that that 329 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 5: was due nineteenth here in Texas. I learned that until 330 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:49,360 Speaker 5: I got older. So when people were going to Disneyland 331 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 5: and you know other places, we're going back to you 332 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 5: know where we were from. 333 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,640 Speaker 1: June teenth is celebrated in solidarity with the African American 334 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: community in Texas, and it's a symbolic remembrance of their 335 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: own fight for freedom. So there are celebrations that take 336 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:11,439 Speaker 1: place in Brackettville, Texas and on a much larger scale 337 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: in Nasimiento. So families from both sides of the border 338 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: that come together. There's a parade, there's music. Neighboring Kickapoo 339 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: tribes come over and are part of the celebration. But 340 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: this is where we see things like the soske and 341 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,199 Speaker 1: the te tepun and the chicharon and the manulo and 342 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: you know, potato salad and all of this stuff. 343 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 5: We are more than food in Natimiento. And that's why 344 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:44,439 Speaker 5: I like to I opened up a there, and you know, 345 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 5: I like to take back everything that I've learned that 346 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 5: I've learned here in the books and reading, and you know, 347 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 5: teach it to the to the women that want to 348 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 5: know the history, to the kids and the young adults 349 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 5: that are interested. But food is very important for us. 350 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:08,360 Speaker 5: I mean, like I said, the soke, the tapoon and 351 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 5: those foods like connect us with you know, Oklahoma. It 352 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 5: connects us with Florida, It connects us with you know, 353 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 5: South Carolina, Georgia. 354 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: In twenty seventeen, the then Governor of Guahuila, Mexico, Ruen 355 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 1: Morera Aalez, signed a decree that recognized the Moscogos as 356 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,640 Speaker 1: indigenous people of Guahuila. A huge thanks to our special 357 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: guest doctor Maria Hammock, Wendy Goodlow, and Griina Torralba for 358 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 1: sharing their time, memories and expertise. You can find links 359 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: to their work in the episode description. 360 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 2: As always, thank you all for listening and joining us today. 361 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: If you have any dishes or foods you want to 362 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 1: hear about on the show, please send us a message. 363 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 2: Thank you. Bye. Hungary for History is a hyphen media 364 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 2: production in partnership with Iheart's Michael Bura podcast network. 365 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: For more of your favorite shows, visit the iHeartRadio app, 366 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.