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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am

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Speaker 1: Matt and today we're talking a guide for Life's Biggest

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Speaker 1: Decisions with Abby Davison. That's right at a time, you know,

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Speaker 1: when we might be experiencing one of the biggest shifts

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Speaker 1: in work life balance, like maybe since the Industrial Revolution. Um,

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Speaker 1: I think it's it's more important than ever to make

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Speaker 1: sure that we are making the best possible uh decisions.

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Speaker 1: Enter Abby Davidson and her new book that she's co authored,

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Speaker 1: Money and Love and Intelligent Roadmap for Life's Biggest Decisions.

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Speaker 1: And in the book, Abby she lays out a framework

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Speaker 1: to help empower folks to make the best strategic decisions

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Speaker 1: without having to sacrifice their careers or their personal lives.

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Speaker 1: It's the common nation of the rational with the emotional,

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Speaker 1: and that's what we're gonna be talking about today. Abby,

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Speaker 1: thank you for joining us. I'm delighted to be here.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, have you were glad to have

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Speaker 1: you and glad to get into touch an easy subject.

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Speaker 1: This must have been a quick book to write, taken

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Speaker 1: no time. Sounds like, you know, it's just one of

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Speaker 1: those things that's intuitive, right, just absolutely just back of

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Speaker 1: the napkin and a few meals. We're good. Yeah, by

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Speaker 1: the seat of your pants. With these big old decisions, right,

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Speaker 1: the ones that kind of make or break our lives,

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Speaker 1: to change us as people. But um, yeah, the first

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Speaker 1: question we ask people who come on the on the show,

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Speaker 1: we want to know what's your craft beer equivalent? What

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Speaker 1: do you suppore John while you're saving and investing for

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Speaker 1: your future. Well, funny story about that. When I was

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Speaker 1: growing up, my parents, who are big savers, you know,

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Speaker 1: both born and raised in the Midwest, spent money on

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Speaker 1: two things. One was experiences. They I joked that they

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Speaker 1: were like millennials without knowing it, so they we'd go

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Speaker 1: to restaurants, we'd see Broadway shows, we traveled, and and

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Speaker 1: books and my mom was trained as a librarian, and

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Speaker 1: I just couldn't get it. I was like, we you know,

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Speaker 1: we can get these for free, we can go to

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Speaker 1: the library. And I just didn't make sense to me

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Speaker 1: why we could cook meals at home but we would

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Speaker 1: spend money at restaurants. And fast forward now, the two

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Speaker 1: things that I splurge on our experiences and books. So

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Speaker 1: you know, the apple does not fall far from the tree,

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Speaker 1: even if you are a little skeptical when you are younger.

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Speaker 1: That's funny. Yeah, I feel like that's a response I

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Speaker 1: hear all the time from super intelligent folks. Are like,

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Speaker 1: I spare no expense on books, and I like to read.

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Speaker 1: I don't read as much as I would like to, though,

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Speaker 1: But I'm always amazed though that people don't utilize the

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Speaker 1: library as much as they can. I'm using Libby for

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Speaker 1: audio books all the time, but I get it, and

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Speaker 1: especially if you're like the iPhones, so it's always there.

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Speaker 1: But if you're the kind of person like your mark

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Speaker 1: those pages and you like to go back and you're

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Speaker 1: an avid reader, I mean a book is still well

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Speaker 1: worth the price, absolutely, And I have two little kids,

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Speaker 1: and so it's really fun to see. Actually I have

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Speaker 1: books that my mom wrote inscriptions to me in, you know,

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Speaker 1: Charlotte's Web when we read it together, And now I

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Speaker 1: get to read that to my kids and they see,

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Speaker 1: you know, the note that their grandma wrote in. So

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Speaker 1: I love that we we do something similar with with

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Speaker 1: every I guess of the more serious books that we read,

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Speaker 1: we always try to write our name and the date

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Speaker 1: on there as well. Same things sort of Joel like, like

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Speaker 1: like you and I do with our board games. Whoever,

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Speaker 1: it's a record of who who is one recently, it's

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Speaker 1: a record of who has held that copy and read it.

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Speaker 1: But I love that Abby. So speaking of of your book,

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Speaker 1: let's kind of like dive into money and love. What

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Speaker 1: was the impetus behind the book? Why did you and

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Speaker 1: your co author write it? Yeah? Well, I when I

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Speaker 1: was in my early to mid twenties, I really struggled

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Speaker 1: with how to make big life decisions. And you know,

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Speaker 1: like everyone, you know, you're making them a lot in

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Speaker 1: that stage. Right, Should I move to a new city

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Speaker 1: even if I don't have a job there, just because

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Speaker 1: I want to live there? Um, when I do get

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Speaker 1: a job, offer multiple offers if I'm lucky, you know

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Speaker 1: which one should I take? Is this person that I'm

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Speaker 1: dating the on? Um? Should I turn down a full

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Speaker 1: scholarship to one grade school to go to maybe your other?

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Speaker 1: Your top choice? And so these are all decisions I faced,

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Speaker 1: and but I just I didn't feel great about how

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Speaker 1: I was making them. It didn't stop me from making decisions,

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Speaker 1: but I just felt uncertain about my approach. And then

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Speaker 1: when I was in graduate school, I took a class

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Speaker 1: taught by my co author, Mirah Strober, and suddenly I

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Speaker 1: realized why this was so hard, and I you know

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Speaker 1: why I was going around about my decision making all wrong,

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Speaker 1: And it's because the conventional wisdom is that if you

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Speaker 1: have a money decision to make, think about it with

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Speaker 1: your head, look at the four one k off or

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Speaker 1: for the job, think about the salary, the career progression,

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Speaker 1: and if that front, yeah, And if you have a

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Speaker 1: relationship decision to make, you know, just follow your heart.

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Speaker 1: You know, how does that person make you feel? But

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Speaker 1: you know, in reality, money and love decisions are completely intertwined,

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Speaker 1: and if your process doesn't take this reality into account,

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Speaker 1: you're going to miss a critical part of the picture.

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Speaker 1: And so I took Myra's class and just this light

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Speaker 1: bulb went off, and I happened to be dating someone

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Speaker 1: at the time who was also in the class. We

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Speaker 1: had met at graduate school. We've been dating for about

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Speaker 1: a year, and we were in our second year, so

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Speaker 1: we were about to graduate, and we need to make

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Speaker 1: decisions like should we look for jobs and in the

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Speaker 1: same city, and if we end up in the same city,

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Speaker 1: should we move in together? And because of Myra's class,

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Speaker 1: we were forced into some really uncomfortable conversations that we

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Speaker 1: didn't feel ready to make um or feel ready for,

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Speaker 1: but it turned out to be so critical to building

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Speaker 1: the foundation of relationship. And we're fast forward today. We

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Speaker 1: have been married thirteen years, we have two kids, We've

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Speaker 1: navigated lots of job changes, and so we wrote the

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Speaker 1: book so that others would have access to the same information.

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Speaker 1: We didn't want it to be the best kept secret

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Speaker 1: of Stanford Business School. Yeah, no, I like that bringing

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Speaker 1: that to the masses. And it sounds like that class

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Speaker 1: was helpful to getting you both on the same page

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Speaker 1: with kind of so the ways you think about some

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Speaker 1: of these complex decisions. And one of the things you

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Speaker 1: mentioned that what you say, a big part of making

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Speaker 1: better decisions in this arena is to not make decisions

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Speaker 1: too hastily, right, So is part of the problem sometimes

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Speaker 1: that we're just we're rushing things absolutely. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: as humans do not like uncertainty, and so when we're

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Speaker 1: weighing multiple options, you're actually sitting in uncertainty or you're

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Speaker 1: kind of in this pause, and so our tendency, it's

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Speaker 1: human nature, is to just get to the other side

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Speaker 1: of the decision, like just just make a decision, and um,

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Speaker 1: it turns out while that make might make us more

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Speaker 1: comfortable in the moment, it could lead to some things

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Speaker 1: that we regret over the longer term. And so we

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Speaker 1: definitely advocate slowing down and not making certainly those big

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Speaker 1: decisions overnight. Yeah, I feel like and I mean, just

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Speaker 1: our world today, it seems is only encouraging us to

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Speaker 1: make those decisions incredibly quickly, just the amount of information

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Speaker 1: that we're inundated with. Right. But with that mind though,

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Speaker 1: you can plan things out perfectly, right, but the world

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Speaker 1: it likes to throw us curveballs, both personally but then

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Speaker 1: also just from a from a macro perspective. Just think

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Speaker 1: about everything that we've experienced over the past couple of years.

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Speaker 1: So how would you recommend for folks to factor in

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Speaker 1: the inevitability of uncertainty when it comes to their decision

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Speaker 1: making processes. Yeah? Absolutely, I mean, if if nothing else,

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Speaker 1: the last few years has taught us that you can

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Speaker 1: make plans. But you know, the saying is, uh, you

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Speaker 1: people plan and God laughs right. Yeah, Um, so we

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Speaker 1: certainly aren't saying, oh, if you follow this process, it

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Speaker 1: will just be like clockwork. But what we do believe

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Speaker 1: and we've road tested what we call our five Seas

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Speaker 1: framework over the past several years, and not this has

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Speaker 1: not been a smooth, you know, paved road, right. We've

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Speaker 1: been like in a jeep with potholes and mudslides and monsoons.

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Speaker 1: Like it's been very uncertain, tricky terrain. And we we

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Speaker 1: know that even when those inevitable curve balls get thrown

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Speaker 1: at us, if you're following a says that you are

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Speaker 1: aware of that you are intentional about that, you feel

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Speaker 1: more confident on the other side, regardless of of the outcome,

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Speaker 1: and you feel like you've actually approached it in a

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Speaker 1: thoughtful way, and no matter what happens that you didn't expect,

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Speaker 1: you can't say that you didn't do your best in

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Speaker 1: terms of actually approaching it. Yeah, that's a good point.

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Speaker 1: I think even if you end up getting down the

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Speaker 1: road and you're like, man, I kind of wish I'd

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Speaker 1: gone the other route, at least you put it through

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Speaker 1: a rigorous process, right, And it's tougher to beat yourself

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Speaker 1: up endlessly because you went through some sort of framework.

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Speaker 1: And you talk about the five Seas framework in the book,

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Speaker 1: Can you give us a brief overview of what that

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Speaker 1: looks like we're going to talk about in a bit

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Speaker 1: some of the major decisions that you cover and how

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Speaker 1: to think through them. But I think the framework could

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Speaker 1: be helpful to kind of get to that. Now. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: i'll give you, I'll give you kind of a high

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Speaker 1: level of the five season. Then I'll just go deeper

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Speaker 1: into one that I think your listeners will especially be

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Speaker 1: interested in. So the first is clarify what's important to you.

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Speaker 1: The second is communicate with the people who are involved

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Speaker 1: in the decision. The third is choices, evaluate all the

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Speaker 1: possible choices, the fourth is check in with friends, family,

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Speaker 1: trusted resources, and the fifth is consequences. And I want

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Speaker 1: to just touch on this consequences step because you know,

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Speaker 1: I imagine people listening to the show are thinking a lot,

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Speaker 1: particularly about the financial consequences of decisions, and just hypothetically

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Speaker 1: so um by a house. It's way outside my proctory.

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Speaker 1: It's one of the consequences of that. Yeah. So I

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Speaker 1: think again, human nature is that we think a lot

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Speaker 1: about the near term consequences. We actually overweight Research shows

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Speaker 1: the near term consequences of decisions, and so when you're

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Speaker 1: making a big life decision, it's important to make yourself

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Speaker 1: think about all the different time horizons, right, not just

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Speaker 1: the short term, say like between now and six months,

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Speaker 1: but the medium term, say, you know, six months to

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Speaker 1: a couple of years, and then you know, what's the

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Speaker 1: long term consequences beyond a couple of years and and

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Speaker 1: those it's important to overcome that UM near term bias

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Speaker 1: by by tricking our brains and to plane out those consequences.

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Speaker 1: And you can certainly do things like assigned possible outcomes

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Speaker 1: to positive and negative consequences. You can, you know, get

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Speaker 1: nerdy like my husband and I did and assigned probabilities

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Speaker 1: and create decision trees. UM. Talk about that if you're interested.

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Speaker 1: But UM, you know it, just making sure that you've

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Speaker 1: sort of played things out, not just what you can

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Speaker 1: kind of imagine you're going to be faced with in

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Speaker 1: in kind of the next couple of months, but further

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Speaker 1: down the road can be really helpful to UM. Examining

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Speaker 1: the possible consequences of your actions. Yeah, I like that,

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Speaker 1: and I think one of the things that it makes

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Speaker 1: me think about is even just the first question we

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Speaker 1: asked you out of the gate, what's your craft beer equivalent?

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Speaker 1: Because I think it's important for people to identify that, like,

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Speaker 1: what is it that you want to spend money on

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Speaker 1: right now, even while you're being smart with your money

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Speaker 1: for the future, Because if you don't have that outlet,

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Speaker 1: if you don't have that release valve, there are consequences

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Speaker 1: to that too, right to not enjoying at least some

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Speaker 1: of the money that comes into your life. So I

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Speaker 1: think even a question like that is important for helping

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Speaker 1: fuel the money decisions that we make, because there are

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Speaker 1: long term and short term consequences that we bear, and

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Speaker 1: if we don't, you know, use our money proactively in

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Speaker 1: ways that are going to make us happy in the

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Speaker 1: here and now, it's the investing for the long term

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Speaker 1: might be short lived. So those are I think that

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Speaker 1: thinking about it in terms of different time periods for

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Speaker 1: the possible consequences is really wise. So I was actually

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Speaker 1: I was curious which of the five sees that you

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Speaker 1: thought might be most consequential to our listeners, avvy, But what, like,

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Speaker 1: what is it about like long term thinking versus short

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Speaker 1: term thinking? Like is it just because we experience the

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Speaker 1: short term most immediately most directly, that we're only thinking

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Speaker 1: about the here and now and oftentimes we're not thinking

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Speaker 1: about our future selves. Like it makes you think about

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Speaker 1: how like we we've recommended before Joel and I to

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Speaker 1: like mess around with the face app even and it's like,

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Speaker 1: let's see what you might look like in fifty years

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Speaker 1: with future you, because oftentimes I think we do have

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Speaker 1: a tough time thinking that far off in the future.

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Speaker 1: But I'm I guess I'm curious to hear your thoughts

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Speaker 1: as well as to why it is that we do that. No,

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Speaker 1: that's exactly right, and I think there have been studies

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Speaker 1: showing that when you do see renderings of yourself in

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Speaker 1: the future, you do make better decisions for the long term.

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Speaker 1: It's actually one of the reasons I love having a

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Speaker 1: co author who's in her eighties, because she's seen so

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Speaker 1: many decades of life that I haven't yet, and so

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Speaker 1: it's very helpful when there is a um something that

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Speaker 1: happens right like a pandemic, to say, Okay, well, I

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Speaker 1: haven't quite seen this before, but I do know that

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Speaker 1: we're going to come out of this, and so that

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Speaker 1: long term perspective is so helpful. And you can't get

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Speaker 1: that unless you've lived it in a lot of ways,

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Speaker 1: but you can sort of trick your brain UM into

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Speaker 1: thinking that by playing out the longer term consequences over decades.

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Speaker 1: And you can do that with your budget, right your

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Speaker 1: financials and UM certainly before you make big decisions like

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Speaker 1: buying a house, people do that, but you don't always

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Speaker 1: do that with UM relationship decisions right with UM. You know,

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Speaker 1: getting married, you might do a budget for a wedding,

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Speaker 1: but maybe you're not UM modeling out what it would

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Speaker 1: look like to combine debt over time. And those are

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Speaker 1: some things that is really a really important to think

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Speaker 1: about in the long term. Yeah, well, I like what

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Speaker 1: you said to age group, Like I feel like we

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Speaker 1: we are. We tend in modern America to silo amongst

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Speaker 1: age groups. And there is something massively beneficial about having

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Speaker 1: a relationship with your grandparents, about having an older neighbor

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Speaker 1: next door that you look in on, take and from them,

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Speaker 1: you know, like, yeah, we we are are we We

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Speaker 1: value youth in our Yeah, and in many ways to

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Speaker 1: our detriment. Um. I want to nail in on one

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Speaker 1: of the other sees for a minute, Abbey before we

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Speaker 1: kind of get into some of the specific topics you

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Speaker 1: cover in the book. Communication right easier said than done.

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Speaker 1: Most of us were not great at it. Uh, And

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Speaker 1: so can you give some advice on when and how

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Speaker 1: to communicate effectively when you're kind of talking through some

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Speaker 1: of these major decisions. What does communication look like? Kind

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Speaker 1: of broadly speaking. Yeah, well, so the first thing to

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Speaker 1: keep in mind before you communicate is knowing where you stand,

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Speaker 1: what you want and so that's hopefully what you've done

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Speaker 1: in the first step. So when you get to the

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Speaker 1: communicate step, this is you know, communicating with anyone who's

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Speaker 1: involved in a big decision, so not making an assumption

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Speaker 1: of what that person might value or or find important.

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Speaker 1: You know, the biggest thing to keep in mind when

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Speaker 1: you're starting a conversation is when to do it right,

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Speaker 1: especially if you're talking about these big meadia topics. Don't

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Speaker 1: do it as you're you know, starting the morning rush

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Speaker 1: to get the kids out the door for school and

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Speaker 1: you're trying to remember all the backpacks and homework folders

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Speaker 1: and lunches, right, that's not an excellent time to make

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Speaker 1: sure that you're able to be calm and keep keep

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Speaker 1: your head about you. So, you know, I personally what

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Speaker 1: works for me is to do it on hikes. My

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Speaker 1: husband and I are big hikers. And so we'll just

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Speaker 1: kind of get out of our daily you know, all

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Speaker 1: the piles of laundry and and the dishes that need

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Speaker 1: to be done, go out on a hike, let our kids,

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Speaker 1: you know, run up ahead, and then have a conversation

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Speaker 1: about some of these bigger topics when we're just kind

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Speaker 1: of in neutral territory, when we're in nature. Um, that

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Speaker 1: can be really helpful because you're not surrounded by the

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Speaker 1: stressors of day to day life. So thinking about the

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Speaker 1: setting of where you communicate is equally, if not more

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Speaker 1: important than thinking through what you're going to communicate. And certainly,

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Speaker 1: you know, let's say, the last thing I want to

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Speaker 1: share about this is is listening. Right, So many of us,

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Speaker 1: when we're talking, especially about big things that make us anxious,

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Speaker 1: we try to just get our thoughts out as quickly

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Speaker 1: as possible and just you know, make sure that the

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Speaker 1: other person has heard us. But but really, when you're communicating,

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Speaker 1: it is a conversation, and you want to make sure

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Speaker 1: you're listening just as much as um as you're talking,

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Speaker 1: if not more. Right, the whole old adage about like

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Speaker 1: the two ears one mouth, and that's about the amount

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Speaker 1: of time that you should be spending, and I think

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Speaker 1: it's true, especially about these big decisions. I love it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Now I love in particular that you you and your

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Speaker 1: husband do that while you're hiking, just as a way

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Speaker 1: to kind of diffuse the situation, especially if it's something

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Speaker 1: that's uh a topic that might come with heightened emotions.

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Speaker 1: And Okay, so along these lines in your book, you

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Speaker 1: reference the Gottman's who there are there these relational experts,

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Speaker 1: but you lay out the negative communication styles that they mentioned,

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Speaker 1: Like what do we need to avoid when it comes

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Speaker 1: to comes to these kinds of interaction besides just having

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Speaker 1: it uncomfortably in the morning at a terrible time, Like,

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Speaker 1: what are the other negative communication methods that we can sidestep. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: they say that they can predict within like fifteen seconds

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Speaker 1: of a conversation whether a couple is going to get

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Speaker 1: divorced just based on their communication styles. So I think

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Speaker 1: that's fascinating. But yeah, I mean, certainly, um, what they

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Speaker 1: do not like is people who are who just shut down.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's called stonewalling, right you you, Um, one

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Speaker 1: person introduces a topic and the other person just refuses

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Speaker 1: to engage. I mean, that is definitely a recipe for

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Speaker 1: disaster because you might try to turn a blind eye

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Speaker 1: to these conversations, but life is going to happen whether

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Speaker 1: you're you know, engaged with them or not. And so

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Speaker 1: if you can, you know, have the conversation with your partner,

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Speaker 1: even tried to do it on neutral territory as possible

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Speaker 1: and diffuse a situation certainly, making sure that you're you're engaging,

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Speaker 1: that you're you know, thinking about yourselves sitting on the

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Speaker 1: same side of the table against the problem as opposed

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Speaker 1: to it's me against you. It's like, no, the problem

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Speaker 1: is you know, we have our kids going to college

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna have to save for that. Not oh,

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Speaker 1: you're spending this much and you're spending that much. It's

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Speaker 1: like no, Actually, let's be a united front against the problem.

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Speaker 1: And the more you can sort of think of the

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Speaker 1: discussion like that, the better off you'll be. Like that

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Speaker 1: that are We've got more to get to including we

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Speaker 1: just want to really dive in now on those additional

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Speaker 1: chapters where you literally give people frameworks for how to

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Speaker 1: think through the biggest love and money decisions in their lives,

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Speaker 1: dating and marriage. We're talking about uh prenups, about having kids, Uh, insurance,

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Speaker 1: things like that, where you choose to live. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: get too questions on all of the above right after this.

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Speaker 1: All right, we are back from the break talking with

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Speaker 1: Abby Davison. Let's talk about some of the I guess,

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Speaker 1: the major decisions that relate to love and money that

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Speaker 1: a lot of folks encounter just throughout their lives, Like

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Speaker 1: what should folks consider when it comes to dating and

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Speaker 1: when it comes to marriage, because you know, these are

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Speaker 1: some pretty big decisions. These are choices that are going

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Speaker 1: to have massive, a massive impact in both realms when

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Speaker 1: it comes to your money and when it comes to

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Speaker 1: relationships and love. Yeah, I mean, money is such a

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Speaker 1: big topic and we are so strongly influenced by our

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Speaker 1: own money stories and and so it's really important to

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Speaker 1: tell them to each other early and just get that

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Speaker 1: baggage out on the table so that you know what

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Speaker 1: you're dealing with. And you know, one of the things

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Speaker 1: that my husband and I talked about early on was debt.

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Speaker 1: Actually I had taken on student debt to go to

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Speaker 1: grad school, but I knew I was going to work

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Speaker 1: for a nonprofit after I graduated, and so um My

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Speaker 1: Stanford was going to pay back my loans. That was

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons I chose to attend there is

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Speaker 1: that they had that policy. But I knew that if

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Speaker 1: we did get married. Once we got married, they were

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Speaker 1: going to take both of our assets into account and

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Speaker 1: I would have had I had to disclose his assets

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Speaker 1: in addition to mine. And so we talked about that.

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Speaker 1: This was like even before you know we uh we

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Speaker 1: be proposed and we got engaged, we talked about how

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Speaker 1: after that happened, you know, what would happen to my debt?

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Speaker 1: You know, would he help me pay back my loans

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Speaker 1: because he was certainly going to prevent me from getting

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Speaker 1: Stanford to pay it back and so, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: just just talking a out things that we have, like debt.

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Speaker 1: But also, you know, I love the question that you

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Speaker 1: start out with, you know, what budget item do you

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Speaker 1: spend reckless amounts of money on? Because we don't want

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Speaker 1: someone to say, like, oh, no, that thing that brings

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Speaker 1: you joy, like you can't do that anymore exactly, no

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Speaker 1: more craft beers for the rest of the table. Get

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Speaker 1: the run away. Yeah, okay, So when you say get

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Speaker 1: it on the table, I am curious, like you're probably

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Speaker 1: not talking about bringing your budget and all the dead

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Speaker 1: dead bodies in your closet to the first date, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: how do you have a formula? How do you suggest

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Speaker 1: people actually do that? Yeah, well, actually in the book,

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Speaker 1: we do have exercises that we have at the end

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Speaker 1: of each chapter, and so there is one at the

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Speaker 1: end of the dating chapter. And it could be an

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Speaker 1: easy way in to be like, hey, I just read

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Speaker 1: this book and they have some questions that they suggest

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Speaker 1: couples talk about when they're you know, they think they

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Speaker 1: want to spend more time together. And that was the

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Speaker 1: thing about the timing of this class for me. It was,

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Speaker 1: like I said, not the type of converse aations I

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Speaker 1: would want to have after you know, a year, let

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Speaker 1: alone like one or two dates. But because we were

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Speaker 1: forced to have these conversations as part of the class,

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Speaker 1: we were really well served by it. So I would say,

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Speaker 1: before it feels comfortable, and so your definition of comfortable

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Speaker 1: might be like after three dates. Um, you know, if

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Speaker 1: you know you want to spend more time with this person,

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Speaker 1: it's better to get these questions on the table. The

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Speaker 1: diving board is not going to get any lower. It's

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Speaker 1: always going to be scary to have these conversations, and

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Speaker 1: so better to find out early that the person that

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Speaker 1: you are interested in grew up moving every few months

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Speaker 1: because their parents couldn't pay their rent and and and

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Speaker 1: so that's actually going to influence some of the decisions

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Speaker 1: you make together. And so, you know, trust is such

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Speaker 1: an important part of relationships. Um, in order to communicate

430
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:52,680
Speaker 1: well with each other, you have to trust each other.

431
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,960
Speaker 1: And so we we believe that these questions can actually

432
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 1: help build trust and that can lead to more success

433
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 1: over time. Yeah, I mean you kind of talked about timeline, right,

434
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 1: so oftentimes it might be sooner, it might be before

435
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 1: you actually feel comfortable. Um, you know, you might be

436
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,359
Speaker 1: having these conversations earlier on. And as far as the

437
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 1: actual topics you mentioned, you and your husband, you'll you'll

438
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 1: talk a decent bit about debt. What other sort of

439
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,640
Speaker 1: topics do you think couples should kind of delve into

440
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,160
Speaker 1: when it comes to some of these some of these questions, Yeah,

441
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,959
Speaker 1: some of these ways that money is going to impact

442
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,640
Speaker 1: a relationship like that. Yeah, so we certainly your approach

443
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,680
Speaker 1: to combining your money, right, So, there are i'd say

444
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,360
Speaker 1: three options. You can pool everything, you can pull some

445
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:40,199
Speaker 1: things or you can keep entirely separate accounts and UM

446
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,439
Speaker 1: those You know, people are very influenced by what they

447
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 1: see their parents do, maybe what they're seeing their friends do.

448
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 1: Especially if you're making different amounts of money, it's important

449
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,679
Speaker 1: to get on the same page about you. How are

450
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 1: you going to approach your your financial combination UM formula

451
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 1: and what might that look like over time? And so

452
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 1: Ross and I had approach that was we at the beginning,

453
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 1: before we were engaged, we had a certain percentage of

454
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 1: our salaries because I was working for a nonprofit he

455
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,199
Speaker 1: was working for a hedge funds who were making wildly

456
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 1: different amounts. That first year after business school, we contributed

457
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 1: the same percentage of our salaries into a shared at

458
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 1: pool that we then used to pay rent, groceries, things

459
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 1: like that. And then we actually increase that percentage over time,

460
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 1: right we when we got engaged, we bumped it up

461
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,360
Speaker 1: a bit more. When we got married, bumped it up more.

462
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: And then we had kids and we're like, okay, there's

463
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 1: no like. I mean, we do have a very small

464
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: separate account that we used to pay for gifts for

465
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,359
Speaker 1: each other or if I go on a girls weekend, UM,

466
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 1: just because we don't, you know, want to have to

467
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 1: check with each other about everything, and we don't anymore,

468
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: but in those early years we did. We said, like

469
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,400
Speaker 1: over a hundred dollars um, we will check with each

470
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 1: other before we spend it, and and that really helped

471
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 1: us again build that financial trust that you know. Now

472
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 1: you know we we don't check in on those things,

473
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 1: but it's important early on to layout what might your

474
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 1: approach be? Very cool? Yeah, I like that yelled at

475
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 1: percentages because it's like, well we got this them aout

476
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,400
Speaker 1: a buying even though the dollar amount looks different. Yeah,

477
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,959
Speaker 1: for sure, and that can hold up when people make

478
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,959
Speaker 1: radically different amounts for sure. Yeah. You talk about pre

479
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: nups to you get into that authority question, and I

480
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 1: know it can be an emotionally charged topic. How how

481
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: do you think couples should discuss whether or not they

482
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 1: should go that route, because sometimes even just putting the

483
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: prenup concept on the table can cause hurt feelings. It's true,

484
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 1: it's a it's a very charged issue. But actually prenups

485
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: are on the rise. And you know, millennials who have

486
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: seen uh their parents get divorced, they are delaying, you know,

487
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 1: waiting longer to get married, So there have more assets

488
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 1: that have accumulated than maybe their parents did. UM. More

489
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 1: and more are actually going the prenup route. What we

490
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,880
Speaker 1: think can be really valuable is doing all the steps

491
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,679
Speaker 1: that you would take to create a prenup, but stopping

492
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 1: short of creating the document itself. And so that same

493
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: level of UM disclosure, that same talking about UM what's

494
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: important to me, can accomplish this same thing as the

495
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 1: certainly doesn't accomplish it legally, but it forces you to

496
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,400
Speaker 1: have the same conversations, which we think are just good conversations.

497
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,360
Speaker 1: It's just good hygiene. UM. And then you know, actually,

498
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: my co author, with her second husband, hired one attorney

499
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: to create a prenup and the attorney said, but wait

500
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: a minute, this is usually not how it works. You

501
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: you have your attorney and my then your husband has

502
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: his attorney. And they said, no, we know. We we

503
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 1: just were approaching this together and the relationship is the client,

504
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 1: which I thought was a really interesting approach. Yeah, usually

505
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 1: the lawyer's fight to the death, and you know, you

506
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: see what shakes out in the end, then it already

507
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 1: feels like a battle at that point. So the ability

508
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: for you to come in together. I think that is

509
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 1: so important, Abby, and like it kind of takes me

510
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: back to just what you're talking about. Wh it comes

511
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 1: to communicating about your finances, like your five c's knowing

512
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: what it is that you want. How that is so important,

513
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,199
Speaker 1: And like you said, going through the motions, going through

514
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: the steps can help you to just to communicate and

515
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: to kind of get on the same age without even

516
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 1: technically creating a prenup. I think that's that can be

517
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: incredibly valuable. All Right, So let's say you you're dating,

518
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,640
Speaker 1: you have the prenup, you get married, and then kids

519
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: are on the table. That's another question that you tackle

520
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 1: in this book, which is I think it's amazing like

521
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 1: to to actually have some concrete ways to help people

522
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: walk through a big old life decision like this is

523
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: really helpful. But uh, it can also be a really

524
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 1: difficult financial decision. When you look at the stats, something

525
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 1: what like three thousand dollars is what it's predicted to

526
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: cost to raise a kid from the age of zero

527
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: to eighteen. So it's it's not just like, hey, this

528
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: is going to change our lives. It's like, hey, this

529
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: might change our whole financial trajectory as well. So how

530
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: do you suggest couples discuss that major topic? Yeah, it's

531
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 1: it's so material, um, but it is something that I mean,

532
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: I certainly didn't know even though I took the class,

533
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: Like what what would the cost that the money costs be? Um?

534
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: I mean I'm sure it was covered in the class,

535
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 1: but I didn't like pay attention because that was so

536
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: far um in the future for me, right, Like I

537
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: was just trying to decide if this guy that I

538
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,239
Speaker 1: was dating was the one who was going to end

539
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 1: up with and so, UM. What I love about the

540
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: way that you know we wrote this is that, like

541
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 1: that's a separate chapter. So if you're not ready to

542
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: even go there yet, like just you know, don't don't

543
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: look at it. But when you're ready, then yes, you

544
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: can kind of go in with your eyes wide open

545
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: because it's three dollars through through eighteen and then you

546
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 1: know another two hundred for college. Right, so you're looking

547
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: at half a million dollars to raise, um, and send

548
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: a kid one kid to college. Um. I think you know,

549
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: the the other important costs that you need to think

550
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: about is time, right, because the money is one thing.

551
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: But I'm sure you know, you're both parents. Um, it

552
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: is tremendously time intensive, especially today given the expectations of

553
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: what parents are involved with with their kids to raise

554
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: a kid, and so before you you know, make those decisions,

555
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: it's it's talking through how do we anticipate spending our time? Right?

556
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: Do you want to continue your career? How do you

557
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: feel about that? You know? How about you know the

558
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: other person in the relationship? Right, It's it's I think

559
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: we are living in a time where the percentage of

560
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: couples who have two careers is higher than ever. It's

561
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: it's increased, you know, so significantly over the last you know, um,

562
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: several decades. And there was a little blip in COVID,

563
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: but you know, I think we're mostly back and so UM,

564
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 1: I think it's important for people to be thinking about

565
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:24,199
Speaker 1: how they want having a child to affect or not

566
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 1: their ability to pursue a career. And then that means childcare, right, Um,

567
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: so who is going to care for that child? Um?

568
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 1: While if we're both pursuing careers, what type of childcare

569
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 1: do we want? Can we afford it? Um? Is it

570
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: available where we live? Um? Is it high quality? And

571
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: so all of these things are important to go in

572
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: with your eyes wide open about um. If you if

573
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: you assume that, oh, you know, my parents are just

574
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: going to take care of our kids when we have one.

575
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: Have you talked to your parents about whether that's something

576
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: they want to do? Sometimes grandparents are like, no, I

577
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: did that. This is your turn. I just want to

578
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: play with them on the weekends. Right, you might need

579
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: to figure that one on. Sorry about that, right? So

580
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: that's the communicate stuff, right, and make sure you talk

581
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 1: to the people involved. Yeah, I mean I like that

582
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: you brought up choldcare because it is so incredibly expensive

583
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: and I mean families today, like especially ones with with

584
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: two or more kids, they just have you know, more

585
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: difficult decisions ahead, uh to make on that front. So

586
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: I mean, do you have specific tips for folks like

587
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: as they're trying to determine, like, all right, are we

588
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: going to pursue the career? Are we gonna pay for childcare?

589
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: How do you recommend for folks to talk through that

590
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: difficult decision? Yeah, well we have another exercise about it.

591
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 1: And this is the thing, right, it's it's UM can

592
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: feel a little bit like you're in school again going

593
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: through and like working on a worksheet. But I mean,

594
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: at least for me, it's helpful to have that intentionality

595
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: because I mean, once you have the kid, like, you know,

596
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: you aren't thinking very clearheadedly in those first two months,

597
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: right as you're like trying to you know, up at

598
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: all hours. And so for a few years, Okay, I'll

599
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: go long, fair fair. I mean my oldest I did

600
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: not um. But uh, you know, we actually did have

601
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: some help with our kids overnight because we knew. I

602
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: knew I do not do well on sleep. And so

603
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: this is the thing about clarifying what's important or I

604
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: did not do well on no sleep. I do very

605
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: well on sleep. Uh. And that's the thing about the

606
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: clarify step, right, it's just like knowing what's important to you.

607
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 1: I I knew from like just the history of being

608
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 1: me that if I don't sleep, I am a disaster.

609
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: And so like that was a way that we chose

610
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: to spend some money. Actually it was a gift, a

611
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: financial gift from our parents, who weren't able to be

612
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: helpful for various reasons, but they actually paid help to

613
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 1: pay for someone to be in our home and take

614
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: care of our kids, um overnight for some nights a

615
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: week because it was so important to to us to

616
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: have that kind of help and we couldn't get it

617
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: through family. So um, but yeah, I think I think

618
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: having the ability to zoom out before you're in the

619
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 1: thick of it, clarify what's important to you, community ate

620
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: with each other about, you know, your career, aspirations, your

621
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: other things that are important for you to accomplish alongside

622
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: having children can really set you up well for then

623
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: when you're in the thick of it and you you know,

624
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: so sort of like building that foundation, right, if you've

625
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: built your house on a solid history of being able

626
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,719
Speaker 1: to communicate about tricky topics, then what you're you know,

627
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 1: kind of building the upper floors. Once you have maybe

628
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: one two, I know you have more than that kids,

629
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: then then you know it's it's even if the wind

630
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: is blowing and the house is swaying, like it's it's

631
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: on solid ground. Yeah. I like that. You also you

632
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: document the rise of Dad's staying at home in the book,

633
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: which he's so true. I'm the traditional fifty eras model

634
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,239
Speaker 1: fortunately is no longer the norm in our society. How

635
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: do you encourage folks to think about gender roles when

636
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: it comes to work, family, and chores, as those gender

637
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: roles are changing, like it, it makes some of those

638
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: discussions based on how you're raised, based on what you

639
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: saw growing up, based on kind of expectations that you have.

640
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 1: Because of that, it can make some of those conversations

641
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: a little more difficult, right, absolutely, Yeah, I think, Um,

642
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: the stats are pre COVID, but it's a little less

643
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: than of dad's are staying at home and people are

644
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: trading off over time, right, I think that that is

645
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: uh an interesting phenomenon and actually, you know, really gives

646
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: people flexibility to not feel like they're locked into one

647
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 1: role over time. Right, Like I am always going to

648
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: be the breadwinner no matter how much I hate my job,

649
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: I have to stay in it because I'm the one

650
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: who brings home a salary. I mean that that is

651
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: very freeing to both people. UM, in a relationship, if

652
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: you are clear on what people want and not to

653
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: make assumptions based on generals. I mean, there's so much

654
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: research that same sex couples actually have more equitable distribution

655
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: of labor because they have to talk about it, because

656
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,479
Speaker 1: they can't default to what a society think, you know,

657
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 1: I should do based on my agenda, and so we

658
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: certainly think that you know, dividing household chores, childcare responsibilities

659
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: are is, you know, same approach as everything else. Right,

660
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: be intentional, UM, clarify what's important, to clarify what parts

661
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: of UM, what parts you hate doing UM, and make

662
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: sure that you're you know, you're you're talking about what

663
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: each person will do and what you will outsource. And

664
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: you know that outsource piece comes with the financial implication, right,

665
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: so so how do you you know budget for that?

666
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: And that's UM. And I remember actually in Myra's class,

667
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 1: we had an exercise where we had to get with

668
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: a pretend partner. I did not actually work with Ross

669
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: for this, but we uh, you had to say like, okay,

670
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: here are all the things involved in running a house

671
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: and having kids, like what is PERSONET going to do?

672
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: What does person be going to do? And what are

673
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 1: you going to outsource? And you've got assigned different salaries

674
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 1: and you had to observe like where the power dynamics

675
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: fell based on you know, those salaries and and through

676
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: that you know, negotiation exercise. It was fascinating. No, that's good.

677
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: It makes me think of like I've always sworn that

678
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: at no time in my adult life will like break

679
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: leaves because I was so scarred by all the leaves

680
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: I had to rake as a child. That's that's why

681
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 1: you have kids. I know, yeah, but it's they're yeah,

682
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: they're getting there there, but it's it's one of tho

683
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:13,879
Speaker 1: things where I have outdoor sat and I know it's

684
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 1: not the most frugal choice, but it's one of those

685
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 1: things where like for me, it's worth the money. And

686
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: that's something we had to talk through. Similar to getting

687
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: our house clean once a month, We're like, Okay, we

688
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 1: kind of want to do it more, but no, we're

689
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: gonna stick to once a month. But at least that

690
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: gives us like a baseline cleaning once a month, and

691
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 1: we're willing to pay for that. But those are conversations

692
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 1: that we had to have, like do we feel comfortable

693
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: spending the money? How important is this to us? I also,

694
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 1: I love that thing that you said about It can

695
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: go back and forth, like in the beginning days of

696
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: building this business, my wife took on more responsibility. And

697
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: now my wife she's in grad school and she's gonna

698
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: start going into her career and I'm I'm going to

699
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: take on more responsibility at home for a time, and

700
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,240
Speaker 1: so I think knowing that it can be a pendulum

701
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: that's swinging and not just like hey, you just have

702
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 1: to eat it and sacrifice what you want for the

703
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: greater good of our family or for us financially. That's

704
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: a really helpful way to think about it. Um, Abby,

705
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: we have a couple more questions we want to get to.

706
00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: We want to talk about how to choose where to

707
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: live in steely enough there's like a personality component to that,

708
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 1: and then careers, how you think through career stuff. We

709
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about both of those things. Will get

710
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: to that right after this. All right, we are back

711
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: from the break talking through a guide for life's biggest

712
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: decisions with Abby Davison uh Abbey. Before we we talk

713
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,879
Speaker 1: about careers, we're gonna talk about geography, because I mean,

714
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 1: where we choose to live like that's another decision that

715
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: affects our entire lives. We know that very well because

716
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: we actually we moved our our families earlier this year.

717
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: Those are difficult decisions with a bunch of factors to consider.

718
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 1: But how do you recommend folks sort through just the money,

719
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: the relational that the lifestyle factors when it comes to

720
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 1: choosing a place to put down roots. Well, it's so

721
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: interesting because when we were researching this book, we surveyed

722
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 1: hundreds of people. We send out a survey to lots

723
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: of folks, and where to when to move and where

724
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 1: to live was the number one topic that people wanted

725
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 1: to talk about on the survey. And I think it's

726
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 1: because that, um, well, part of it was we sent

727
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: it out during COVID, so people were in their homes

728
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: more than ever before. It gave us a lot more

729
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: of an imagination to think about changing where we live,

730
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 1: Like I hate this place. Yes, so no matter how

731
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 1: much space you had, it was not enough. Um But

732
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 1: I think, you know, it really did give us a

733
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 1: moment to kind of step back and say, like, hey,

734
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: what's important to me? And people talked about, you know,

735
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 1: some of the ways that they had made the decisions

736
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,959
Speaker 1: before being about where the job prospects were the best

737
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 1: for their particular career. Suddenly, when remote work opened things up,

738
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 1: people had an opportunity to reassess and say, actually, it's

739
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: important to be close to my family or you know,

740
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: we saw a lot of people actually comment on how

741
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: issues of identity factored into their decisions, right, Um, maybe

742
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 1: they're in a mixed race couple and in certain places

743
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: they you know, they didn't want their kid to have

744
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: like an eyebrow raised and people let's say like no,

745
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: but what are you right, And so they wanted to

746
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: be in a place with lots of mixed race couples

747
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: and so, UM, the vibe, if you will, of a

748
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: place is is very important, you know, in addition to

749
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: all of those the financial and the career and the

750
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,879
Speaker 1: you know, the family pieces. UM. I think there's an

751
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: interesting book that we read as part of the research

752
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 1: by Richard Florida that talks about the personality traits of

753
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: different parts of the United States and how um they've

754
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: done surveys and they discovered that traits like neuroticism, UM

755
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 1: are concentrated in the New York metro area and the

756
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 1: Midwestern Heartland, and and traits like agreeableness and conscientiousness is

757
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,399
Speaker 1: like the Big five personality types they call it, are

758
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 1: concentrated in the Eastern sun Belt. So there could be

759
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,919
Speaker 1: you know, places that have a dominant personality if you will,

760
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 1: that that might be a good fit for you based

761
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: on your specific personality traits, which I think is fascinating.

762
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: I thought that was fascinating too. That was the most

763
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 1: one of the most interesting parts that I picked up on,

764
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: And I was like, makes sense that I'm in the

765
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 1: sunbelt now, kind of agreeable? Yeah, I think so well,

766
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 1: And so yeah, that was really interesting, And I think

767
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: that's a good point, like when it comes to those

768
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,399
Speaker 1: external factors of what you're looking for, but then there's

769
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: also a money aspect too, because if you're like I

770
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: really want to live in a high rise condo in

771
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 1: a downtown city it's like a major metropolitan area specifically,

772
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: if you want to live in a place like New

773
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: York City or San Francisco, that comes with significant money

774
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: trade off. So the vibe might be exactly what you're

775
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: looking for, but the reality is on the money front,

776
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 1: you might not be able to afford it. So those

777
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 1: are really difficult topics to cover as well, because the

778
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: money can vary so wildly between places that you might

779
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 1: want to live. If you want to live in you know,

780
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 1: even a downtown Birmingham, right, that's going to be a

781
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: very different money commitment than living in New York City. Absolutely,

782
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 1: And I think along with those conversations and you know,

783
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 1: the career impact conversations are important to have to write.

784
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: It takes a lot of effort and commitment to make

785
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,800
Speaker 1: sure that you know, if if both people in a

786
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 1: relationship want to advance their careers, that to make sure

787
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: a move isn't going to hurt someone's career, right. So

788
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: UM kind of like a hippocratic oath, if you will,

789
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: for people couples moving to say like, first, do no harm. UM.

790
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:26,879
Speaker 1: It's it's certainly important to go in UM intentionally with

791
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: career moves because if you're you know, and I think

792
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 1: lots of professions, you don't have a whole lot of control.

793
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 1: I think of UM academics, I think of you know,

794
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 1: doctors that get matched to certain residency programs, right. But

795
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,720
Speaker 1: but having those conversations before you go through that matching

796
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: process or before you apply to certain universities for tenure

797
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,919
Speaker 1: track positions, UM, just to get on the same page

798
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,479
Speaker 1: about what you're both hoping for over the long term

799
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: career wise, financially, UM. Kind of the other pieces of

800
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 1: the picture that are important to you. I mean, when

801
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,280
Speaker 1: Ross and I were deciding where to move after grad school,

802
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: we based on the industries that we were pursuing new

803
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 1: York City would have been a top place for us

804
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: to look, right. He was interested in in finance, and

805
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: I was interested in social innovation and impact, and I

806
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 1: knew there would be amazing career prospects for us in

807
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: New York City. But I also knew because I lived

808
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 1: there before grad school, that people work all the time,

809
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 1: and so you know I, I said. We we had

810
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 1: a conversation about it, and we said, yeah, we'd have

811
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 1: amazing jobs, we'd never see each other, and so we

812
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 1: actually crossed New York City off the list because we

813
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: valued all the things outside of our jobs in addition to,

814
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 1: you know, our career ambitions and so a lot different

815
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: in New York City. Exactly. Well, that's true, that's true.

816
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:44,840
Speaker 1: It was something that's one of our top things that

817
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: we love to do. She didn't want those neurotic vibes, Like, well,

818
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:52,839
Speaker 1: I grew up with the neurotic vibe, so I take

819
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: them with me, but it's better if I don't have

820
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: them all around me. Considering that your specific location. When

821
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 1: when it's you by yourself, you can make oftentimes the

822
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: it's an easier decision, but certainly when you bring somebody

823
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 1: else into the mix, that is a conversation that's worth having.

824
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 1: And you know, like, like, how do you encourage folks

825
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 1: then to to kind of find the balance between finding

826
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 1: fulfilling work that they're passionate about and then at the

827
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 1: same time, like you got folks who are looking to

828
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,919
Speaker 1: pursue a career that might allow them to achieve their

829
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 1: financial goals. Like there it seems like oftentimes those two

830
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,399
Speaker 1: things are sort of that odds with with each other.

831
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: And so how do you recommend for folks to kind

832
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 1: of reconcile those two things. Yeah, well, I go back

833
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 1: to the five c's right, Um, what's important to you?

834
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: Is it important to make it as much as possible,

835
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 1: as quickly as possible. Is it important that you have

836
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,439
Speaker 1: a career that gives you the flexibility to kind of

837
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 1: have periods of intensity, but then also be able to

838
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 1: like go see your kids school play, um, and not

839
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: feel like you're chained to you know, your email all

840
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 1: the time. So I think once you, once you have

841
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,959
Speaker 1: that clarity, you can then have those conversations too, because

842
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 1: it's all about tradeoffs. It's not we can't we can't

843
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: do everything, and so being able to say okay, I'm

844
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 1: okay with driving a ten year old car. I'm okay with,

845
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 1: you know, living in a house that's not you know,

846
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: hasn't doesn't have the fanciest new kitchen. Right. I don't

847
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: need you know, fancy brands. What I do want is

848
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,359
Speaker 1: to be able to take three amazing vacations every year. Right.

849
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,479
Speaker 1: And so I guess having that the ability to get

850
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:27,320
Speaker 1: so clear, you know, specifically financially on what financial freedom,

851
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: if you will, means to you, and then you know,

852
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: how do yeah, and then how do you craft your

853
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,840
Speaker 1: your life and career around that, not be a slave

854
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: to kind of what what someone else told you was,

855
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 1: you know, a prestigious career. I mean, that's what's so

856
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: tricky about so many people who are achievement oriented, right,

857
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 1: and go through, um, checking off boxes for so many years,

858
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden they get out and

859
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 1: they're like, wait a minute, I've checked all these boxes

860
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 1: off and I'm miserable. Um. Yeah, So so not allowing

861
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,720
Speaker 1: other people's ambitions to get on your life list, um,

862
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 1: And that just takes a lot to discipline and a

863
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,399
Speaker 1: lot of self awareness to be able to sort those

864
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,839
Speaker 1: things out. Yeah, and you said checking boxes, it's it's

865
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: almost like it's a worksheet and like everybody is doing

866
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: the same things, and truly what it does, like me,

867
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 1: what we're talking about here is like being creative. It

868
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 1: takes pausing and thinking and being creative and imagining and

869
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 1: sort of uh like casting a vision of what what

870
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:20,879
Speaker 1: you want your life to look like. That is knowing

871
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: yourself right, knowing what you want and not just falling

872
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 1: blindly what everyone else wants. And I think, yeah, I

873
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 1: guess last question for you here, Abby, Like I feel

874
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 1: like a lot of what's being sold to us when

875
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: it comes career wise, He says, it's like your career

876
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,399
Speaker 1: should be incredibly fulfilling, should be deeply meaningful to you.

877
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 1: And the reality is are a lot of people who

878
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: are incredibly happy folks who don't have that relationship to

879
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 1: their job. So do you feel like that's oversold and

880
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: that maybe we should learn to divorce meaning from the

881
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 1: work that we do a little bit more. If we're

882
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 1: able to, like you said, be untethered from our email.

883
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 1: If he gives us copious amounts of free time to

884
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 1: do things that we actually love, how should we think

885
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 1: about that dichotomy? Yeah, I mean I absolutely think that

886
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,959
Speaker 1: um My father in law says like it's a job.

887
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: That's why they call it work, right, It's not supposed

888
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: to fulfill everything. But I think, you know, my generation

889
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: was certainly told that your job, you know, your career

890
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 1: should be everything to you. And um, you should find

891
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: something that you know gives you passion and meaning. And

892
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: I certainly think passion and meaning are critical, but I

893
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 1: think there are places to get them other than you know,

894
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 1: your your job, and so um, I think zooming out

895
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: and and not just allowing your job and what you

896
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 1: do for pay to to have so much weight put

897
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 1: on it can be very freeing and and um, and

898
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 1: I think having you know, certainly in this in this

899
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,359
Speaker 1: day and age, as we're hearing about layoffs, and we're

900
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 1: hearing I mean, we've been through so many trends, right,

901
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:48,720
Speaker 1: We've had the great resignation and then we had quiet

902
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:52,240
Speaker 1: quitting an hour into layoffs. And I think, you know, really,

903
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: despite whatever we call it, I think people are looking

904
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 1: for more purpose and meaning in their lives. And so

905
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 1: hopefully there is a component your job that gives that

906
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: to you. But knowing what those other big rocks are,

907
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: if you will in your life that you want to

908
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 1: make sure you have room for um is as you know,

909
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 1: it's even more important so that then you can um

910
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 1: shape your life around those big rocks and not assume

911
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 1: any one of them is going to be your be

912
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 1: all and end all. Right, I mean, I I adore

913
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:22,840
Speaker 1: my husband. He is not going to fulfill every single

914
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:24,839
Speaker 1: need I have, right, I mean it's just like that,

915
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: right for a job, It's like it's not fantastic. Um,

916
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: I adore him and when I want and heat, but

917
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: he's an introvert, right, And so like we recharge our

918
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 1: ballot batteries really differently. When I want like a great

919
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 1: gossip session and a good conversation, I'm going to go

920
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:41,879
Speaker 1: have a drink with a girlfriend And that's totally fine.

921
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: So it's the same thing with your job. It's like,

922
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 1: you know what you're going to get out of it,

923
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 1: be eyes wide open about that. But then make sure

924
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 1: that there are other elements in your world, in your

925
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 1: life that are going to meet those other needs that

926
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: you have. I love it. I love the framework that

927
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 1: y'all have presented here in your book, Money and Love.

928
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 1: It's going to be available next month in January. But

929
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 1: working folks learn more about what y'all are up to

930
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 1: and specifically, I guess to where to purchase that book. Yeah.

931
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: So we have a website, Money Love Book dot com

932
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 1: that has links to places to purchase it, including where

933
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 1: people can get signed copies if they wanted. It has

934
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 1: a fun quiz on um that can help people learn

935
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: more about their money and love decision making type, and

936
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: all of our social media channels are on there too.

937
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:29,359
Speaker 1: Great way to combine money and relationship advice, which is

938
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 1: tough to do, but you guys, I feel like pulled

939
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 1: it off really well in this book. So, Abby, thank

940
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us on the podcast today.

941
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having me. It was really fun.

942
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 1: All right, man, that was a super fun conversation with

943
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:42,760
Speaker 1: it was Abby Davidson. I feel like just a way

944
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 1: to kind of think through the biggest life decisions that

945
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: you have, and they often involve both those things love

946
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 1: and money, right, and they feel sometimes at odds. So

947
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 1: I don't know, I guess my first question for you is,

948
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 1: as always, like, what was your big takeaway from this combo?

949
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 1: My big takeaway well, and one of the things she

950
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: said is that these two things aren't at odds. Oftentimes

951
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:03,879
Speaker 1: we have too there's elements of both that we need

952
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 1: to tap when it comes to any decision that that

953
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 1: we're making. Uh, we can't just completely turn on robotic

954
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,879
Speaker 1: rational mats when it comes to business decisions and then

955
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: only save emotional, you know, decisions for like the family

956
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: or things that you know that I'm personally interested in

957
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,320
Speaker 1: from like a emotional like love standpoint, when it, I

958
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: guess comes to relationship, I enjoy the work I do.

959
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: I don't want to make it sound like that, why

960
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: do you hate me? Man? That the work we do

961
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,919
Speaker 1: is only its business only? But yeah, there's a lot

962
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 1: of different aspects that we need to take into account

963
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 1: well as we're making these big decisions. But my big

964
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 1: takeaway came, I guess maybe kind of early on in

965
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 1: the conversation and Abby mentioned how hard And I mentioned

966
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: this at the time because it stood out to me,

967
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 1: But Abby heard her, hasn't They go on these hikes

968
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 1: and they have some of these bigger, harrier conversations while

969
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 1: they are on their hikes. And I loved her too

970
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 1: about letting the kids run up ahead, because there, you know,

971
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:56,360
Speaker 1: there's there's times when it's just like, all right, the

972
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,240
Speaker 1: kids don't need to hear us talking about this particular topic,

973
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 1: but I really like how it allows you both And

974
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 1: she kind of was talking about this as well, like

975
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: she's like imagining, imagine both of you on the same

976
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 1: side of the table and you're working against sort of

977
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 1: like the problem, whatever the problem is. We're both looking

978
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: at it as opposed to looking at each other. And

979
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 1: you kind of do that when you are doing an activity,

980
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:17,399
Speaker 1: when you're participating in something, when you're hiking, you're both

981
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: hiking alongside each other, uh, and you're able to have

982
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: that conversation that way. And plus it just makes it

983
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,720
Speaker 1: so much more fun. Right, Like we we talked about

984
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: couples going on like money dates. It's like, okay, don't

985
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 1: make your budget meeting. This like face to face conference

986
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: room like spreadsheets, printingdal like pencil sharpened sort of events.

987
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:39,360
Speaker 1: It's like man like crack open a bottle of wine,

988
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 1: go to a brewery, sit down, talk about money in

989
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 1: that kind of environment. And and that's why, you know,

990
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 1: we think that us going to lead to much more

991
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: successful conversations as opposed to the nose and knows we're

992
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:53,840
Speaker 1: gonna duke this thing out right, Yeah, what about you?

993
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 1: What was your big dick away. I think towards the

994
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: end of the conversation actually which she said, it's all

995
00:48:57,480 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: about trade offs, and it made me think of this

996
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: Toma soul quote, who is my favorite economist. He said,

997
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 1: there are no solutions, only trade offs, and that is

998
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 1: the reality of human life, is that so much of

999
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 1: the time there is no right way. It's to choose

1000
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 1: your own adventure book. And so you are talking about tradeoffs.

1001
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:15,319
Speaker 1: No matter which direction you go in. Living in New

1002
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:17,319
Speaker 1: York City might be the time of your life. It

1003
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: might be worth also from from a career, sah all

1004
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: the money and the connections and the fund that you have,

1005
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 1: but you also might realize, wait a second, that training

1006
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 1: my bank account, and you know what, I don't like

1007
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:28,879
Speaker 1: being surrounded by a ton of neurotic people. So it's

1008
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 1: it's not the best choice for me. But there are

1009
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 1: these are trade offs, and so especially when you're having

1010
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 1: this conversation with a significant other, even if you're not

1011
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 1: in a relationship, that's totally fine. Even making this decision individually,

1012
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 1: there are going to be trade offs with every decision.

1013
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 1: You might have to move further from family, or you

1014
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 1: might opt for a career that's more fulfilling but pays

1015
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:50,400
Speaker 1: less money. Uh, And yeah, finance has come into play

1016
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 1: with all of these decisions. But I guess just to say,

1017
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,799
Speaker 1: there is no perfect and you're just you're hopefully trying

1018
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 1: to find the best solution for you, and that involve

1019
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: saying no to something good in hopes that something better

1020
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:06,359
Speaker 1: comes along in the future. I love how Abby talked

1021
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 1: in the beginning about how these five sees how this

1022
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 1: intentional process it's not always going to land you in

1023
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,279
Speaker 1: the best possible outcome, but at least you can point

1024
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 1: back and say, hey, I went through a lot of

1025
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: work to come to this decision, and I can feel

1026
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: secure and happy knowing that I did the work to

1027
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,879
Speaker 1: arrive here. It's it's doing the due diligence, basically, And

1028
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,360
Speaker 1: we don't want the whim exactly. You don't want to

1029
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:30,320
Speaker 1: at the end of the day to realize, well, I

1030
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 1: don't even know how we really got here, and you

1031
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 1: don't want to just leave it a chance as to

1032
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:36,359
Speaker 1: whether or not it's a good outcome. Hopefully you've done

1033
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 1: and put in all of the work possible in order

1034
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 1: to achieve what hopefully is a good result, but it

1035
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 1: may out always be a good result, and I want

1036
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 1: to say it too. Sometimes it can be something kind

1037
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 1: of off the wall, but still take that possibility and

1038
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:49,719
Speaker 1: put it through this framework. Makes me think, three of

1039
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 1: the best months of my life. We're traveling around this

1040
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,439
Speaker 1: great country of ours, Matt quitting my job after six

1041
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 1: months and just spending time getting to know the landscape

1042
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 1: and visiting some great national parks kind of thing. So

1043
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: it's you know, that doesn't sound like the best long

1044
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 1: term option, right to make no money and to quit

1045
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 1: a career route that you're embarking on early on, But

1046
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:13,479
Speaker 1: for me, it was well worth it, and I think, yeah,

1047
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 1: you can still come up with a decision like that,

1048
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 1: but putting it through some sort of framework to make

1049
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: sure that, hey, this is really what I want right here,

1050
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 1: right now, and I'm never gonna be able to have

1051
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 1: this opportunity again. It's worth leaving something good for something better,

1052
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 1: and I can always come back and get today job

1053
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 1: later on a bit. But yeah, I think this framework

1054
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: is going to be really helpful for people to make

1055
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 1: better decisions when it comes to those biggest uh question

1056
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 1: marks that come along in our lives. Yeah, yeah, dude,

1057
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:38,880
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it so much because, like

1058
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 1: as an individual, if if you know a lot, I

1059
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,160
Speaker 1: guess a lot of this episode we did talk about relationships,

1060
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:44,799
Speaker 1: but what we're also talking about, like what we're talking

1061
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 1: about right now is the process. And basically, if you

1062
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 1: are making a decision on your own, what we're saying

1063
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 1: is to think about it. But if you're making this

1064
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,839
Speaker 1: decision with somebody else, if you have a significant other,

1065
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: a partner, what we're saying then is to think about

1066
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 1: it and then talk about it, right, Because I think

1067
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 1: that's one of the other things that Abby said that

1068
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 1: was so good, is that you need to know what

1069
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 1: it is that you want first in order to communicate

1070
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 1: clearly with your partner when it comes to making some

1071
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 1: of these large, big, huge life decisions together. I think

1072
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 1: if we don't take the time to have actually thought

1073
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 1: through what it is that we're looking for, you might

1074
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 1: make a decision as a couple, but then two years

1075
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 1: into it you're like, oh, wait a minute, I don't

1076
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:22,839
Speaker 1: really like this. And of course we can all change

1077
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:24,760
Speaker 1: our minds at some point down the road, but again,

1078
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:26,879
Speaker 1: you want to have done the work, like you said,

1079
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 1: you want to put in that due diligence. For sure,

1080
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 1: all right now, let's get back to the beer that

1081
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 1: we had on this episode. This was Narwhale. It's an

1082
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 1: Imperial Stout by Sierra Nevada version. This is actually, uh

1083
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 1: this this is a beer that we've had on the

1084
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 1: show before, but it's a previous years and so they

1085
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 1: you know, they it changes slightly. So this is the

1086
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:45,839
Speaker 1: one that I was okay us revisioning. This is one

1087
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 1: of my favorite widely available stouts. It's comes into six pack.

1088
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:51,799
Speaker 1: It's Sierra Nevada, which means I think they're distributing all

1089
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:54,319
Speaker 1: fifty states at leastffordable at least most of them, as

1090
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 1: evidenced by the fact that it comes in six packs exactly.

1091
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 1: But this is this is a delicious one, like roasted

1092
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,799
Speaker 1: cough fee. It's definitely dark, right, it's black, it's dark

1093
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,319
Speaker 1: rosy toast. Yeah. So if you if you like the

1094
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 1: sweeter milk stylets, this probably isn't your jam. But if

1095
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:10,359
Speaker 1: you like kind of bitter coffee not a little more

1096
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 1: a little more smack in the face, yeah, this one

1097
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 1: is going to be for you. I I really like this.

1098
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 1: This is one where I was like, I thought they

1099
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 1: stopped making it, and when I saw this, it put

1100
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 1: us on my face on the shelf. I was like, yes,

1101
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 1: they're still making it, so this is this is a

1102
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 1: really good one. I like it a lot in the

1103
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 1: wall with its crazy tooth on its head. Yeah, this

1104
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 1: is more's uh, this is more of like an espresso

1105
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: style coffee as opposed to like the milk styles are

1106
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 1: very much more like that fall into that flat white category.

1107
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 1: But if this sounds like something you'd be interested in,

1108
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 1: check it out in our wall. It's an Imperial stout

1109
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 1: that you can find most likely wherever it is that

1110
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 1: you purchase your craft beer and j We forgot to

1111
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 1: mention this at the beginning of the episode, but listeners

1112
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 1: will have a chance of getting a free copy of

1113
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:54,360
Speaker 1: Abby's book, Money and Love. We're gonna give away five copies.

1114
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 1: We're partnering with her publisher, and so what you need

1115
00:53:57,120 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 1: to do to ensure that you are entered into win

1116
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: a copy of Abby's book is just leave us a

1117
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 1: review over at Apple Podcasts or wherever it is that

1118
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 1: you listen to your podcasts and then send us. Just

1119
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 1: send us an email over at how to Money pod

1120
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:12,960
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com, do a screenshot, send us a

1121
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 1: screen name, and by the way, if you've left or

1122
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:17,319
Speaker 1: even just you know, I don't know, Oh you're gonna say,

1123
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:20,839
Speaker 1: just reply to previously emails you when you've entered will

1124
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:22,239
Speaker 1: include you as well, So there's a lot of folks

1125
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 1: who do that. If you're reviewed on day one, you

1126
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 1: still deserve a shout of playing this book. Absolutely, Yeah,

1127
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 1: if you if you haven't yet left review, please leave

1128
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 1: us a great review in on Spotify, whether it's just

1129
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 1: a star rating or an actual written review on Apple Podcasts,

1130
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,759
Speaker 1: we appreciate it. Yeah, and hopefully yeah, you can win

1131
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 1: a copy of this really fascinating new book. But just

1132
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 1: leave that review by by Thursday at noon and send

1133
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 1: that email over our way so we can get you

1134
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: in and we'll announce the winners on Friday's episode on

1135
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 1: the Friday flight. That's right, buddy, all right, Well, that's

1136
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 1: gonna be it for this episode until next time. Best

1137
00:54:53,520 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 1: Friends Out, Best Friends Out. M