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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is guitarist extraordinaire Joe Satriani. Joe, you're

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Speaker 1: on a spring tour with Steve Vai. How did that

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Speaker 1: come to be?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Well, it started about a little over a year

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Speaker 2: ago when my son brought me this idea about doing

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Speaker 2: a documentary about himself growing up around the G three

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Speaker 2: concerts and the fact we had an anniversary that had

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Speaker 2: just come by, and we started with just doing the

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Speaker 2: film and it rolled into a G three tour and

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Speaker 2: then which we wrapped up in February, and then along

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Speaker 2: the way, territories were saying, well, I'd like to like

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Speaker 2: you to come here too, because it was really a

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Speaker 2: short tour, maybe just about eleven dates or something like that,

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Speaker 2: all West Coast, and so we thought, well, yeah, let's

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Speaker 2: just keep going. It's so much fun. Eric had other commitments,

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Speaker 2: so then we thought, well, maybe it's just me and Steve.

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Speaker 2: And then as soon as we agreed we thought that'd

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Speaker 2: be a cool idea, someone said, well, you guys would

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Speaker 2: be great if you had a track, And then so

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Speaker 2: I started to write some music and sent it to

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Speaker 2: Steve and then all of a sudden, it was like, hey,

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Speaker 2: you guys should do an album and keep this tour

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Speaker 2: going as long as you can. So here we are.

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Speaker 2: We're on the Satchfy tour, the first leg of it,

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Speaker 2: and we've got a song out and a video and

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Speaker 2: it's a reality. It's just so cool.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back. How many kids do you have?

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Speaker 2: I just have one, It's easy, Satriani. A lot of

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Speaker 2: people have been following me over the years. No him

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Speaker 2: from doing the podcast way back when and doing a

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Speaker 2: lot of videos for me, music videos and the documentary

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Speaker 2: Beyond the Supernova as well. So he's a young filmmaker

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Speaker 2: out of Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: So how old is he now?

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Speaker 2: Thirty one?

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Speaker 1: Thirty one? Is you off the payroll?

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Speaker 2: He's off and on I suppose. I mean I've got

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Speaker 2: to pay him for his work, right.

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Speaker 1: So okay, tell me more about this documentary to the

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Speaker 1: degree you know.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's interesting because G three the very first

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Speaker 2: G three tour we did in ninety six.

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Speaker 1: Not everybody who's listening maybe or not be familiar with

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Speaker 1: G three, So please explain the concept.

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Speaker 2: Okay. So, so back in ninety five, I walk into

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Speaker 2: the Bill Graham management office. I was managed by Bill

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Speaker 2: Graham and the team there, and I said to the guys,

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Speaker 2: I said, look, thank you very much. Everything's great touring

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Speaker 2: the world. I'm a solo artist. I can do whatever

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Speaker 2: I want. But how come I'm isolated from everybody? I said,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's just like to get together with another

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Speaker 2: guitar player. It seems like it's impossible. And when I

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Speaker 2: was a kid, that was the dream. I always thought,

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Speaker 2: when you got to be a famous rock star, you

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Speaker 2: could just hang out with your friends and play guitar

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Speaker 2: all the time and make music. But in fact it

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Speaker 2: was the opposite. The labels, the promoters, managers were very

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Speaker 2: protectable of their artists, and you just good luck trying

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Speaker 2: to stand next to another guitar player on stage, especially

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Speaker 2: if they did something similar to yourself. So I thought, well,

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Speaker 2: I just got to turn that upside down. So in

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Speaker 2: a moment of contrarian thought, you know, I said, what

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Speaker 2: if we just made our own festival where every night

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Speaker 2: I'd get to stand next to my favorite guitar players

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Speaker 2: and we would just try to I have fun, out

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Speaker 2: do each other, whatever you want to call it, but

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Speaker 2: we'd celebrate the guitar with the audience and everyone thought

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Speaker 2: it was a great idea. We had to figure out

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Speaker 2: how to get it down. You couldn't do it with

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Speaker 2: like twelve guitarists or so, because as you know, you

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Speaker 2: kind of rent the venue every night and there's a curfew.

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Speaker 2: You got to get in, do the show, and you

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Speaker 2: got to get out. So if I had even seven

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Speaker 2: guitar players, they wouldn't really have enough time to play

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Speaker 2: to feel like it was worth their while to come out.

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Speaker 2: So we eventually in that meeting after a few hours,

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Speaker 2: we whittled it down to three. If we could fit

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Speaker 2: three guys, we could get them, entice them with the

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Speaker 2: offer that they could come with their own band, play

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Speaker 2: for forty five fifty minutes, do their hit single, their

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Speaker 2: new music, whatever they want to do, as long as

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Speaker 2: they stick around for the end jam and we play

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Speaker 2: for a half hour, and we'd play not our own songs,

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Speaker 2: but we celebrate the music we grew up listening to.

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Speaker 2: So that took about a year to convince the promoters

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Speaker 2: and the managers that it was a good idea, And

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Speaker 2: it was my job to sell each package to the promoters,

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Speaker 2: which was also difficult. Some promoters would like one of

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Speaker 2: my choices and wouldn't like the other, you know, and

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Speaker 2: so that went back and forth, but I had it

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Speaker 2: set in my mind it had to be Steve and

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Speaker 2: it had to be Eric, and I just pushed that

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Speaker 2: and then come October of ninety six, it was our

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Speaker 2: first show. It just so happened that a few days

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Speaker 2: before then, it was my son's fourth birthday. We just

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Speaker 2: moved into a new house and we figured he's old

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Speaker 2: enough to travel now. So that was his first tour,

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Speaker 2: was the G three tour. So he joined us with

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Speaker 2: the bus and it was really fascinating, you know, for

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Speaker 2: all of us, I think for myself, my wife Robina,

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Speaker 2: having a child out on tour, that was something. For Zez,

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Speaker 2: of course, it was you know, life altering. But he

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Speaker 2: grew up, you know, hanging out with Robert Fripp and

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Speaker 2: Kenny wyn Sheppard and Steve I and Eric Johnson and

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Speaker 2: all the band members, and he just kept coming on

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Speaker 2: tour until about high school and the schools were like,

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Speaker 2: you can't just take your kid out, you know, all

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Speaker 2: the time. So we started changing the touring schedule to

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Speaker 2: work around that. And you know, he like any kid

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Speaker 2: growing up, when he did, he was really into making

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Speaker 2: skateboard videos and so he by default was handed the

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Speaker 2: camera half the time to film us. You know, his

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Speaker 2: dad and his buddies just goofing around trying to figure

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Speaker 2: out what to do with the Internet. And he brought

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Speaker 2: a lot of life into what was an unusual thing

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Speaker 2: for the rest of us, for us grown ups, you know.

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Speaker 2: So his history really was about growing up with a

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Speaker 2: very strange father who played rock guitar in the era

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Speaker 2: of hip hop and pop music, and his observations and

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Speaker 2: his life being the son of an almost famous guy.

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Speaker 2: And he wanted to make a film about that and

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Speaker 2: about G three and about guitar playing and what it

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Speaker 2: means to everybody involved. And so the movie has evolved

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Speaker 2: quite a bit, and he's interviewed, you know, Robert and

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Speaker 2: Brian May and Steve Miller and Steve VII and everybody

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Speaker 2: in between, maybe about thirty or forty different guitar players.

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Speaker 2: Since then, he came on tour with us on this

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Speaker 2: G three reunion tour and for the first time he

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Speaker 2: joined me on stage for a song and played a

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Speaker 2: song his mind blowing moment for us as Fall and Son.

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Speaker 2: But that I think that was a crucial thing in

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Speaker 2: the film for him to really experience that. After watching

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Speaker 2: from the sidelines for you know, three decades, he finally

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Speaker 2: got to figure out for himself what it really feels

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Speaker 2: like to walk on stage and play summer song. You know.

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Speaker 1: So it's not a typical rock documentary. It's through the

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Speaker 1: eyes of your son and what it's like to be

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Speaker 1: the son of someone who's a rock guitarist. As you say,

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Speaker 1: almost famous or semi four us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a funny genre. I exist in

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Speaker 2: instrumental rock. Right, it needs to be defined explained.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to G three. So a lot

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Speaker 1: of people think every famous person knows each other. That's

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Speaker 1: not necessarily true. And you live in the Bay Area,

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Speaker 1: so you start G three. Did you already know Eric Johnson?

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Speaker 1: And as you press, did you know these people or

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Speaker 1: did you have to call up and say, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm a big fan. How did it all work?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Well, I mean, first I have to say, in

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Speaker 2: case people don't know, I've known Steve I since he

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Speaker 2: was twelve. He came to my house when he was

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Speaker 2: twelve years old one afternoon, rang the doorbell, and he

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Speaker 2: had a pack of strings in one hand. And a

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Speaker 2: stringless guitar in the other and he said, can you

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Speaker 2: teach me how to play guitar? So we grew up

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Speaker 2: in the same town and went to the same public

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Speaker 2: high school, and I gave him guitar lessons three or

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Speaker 2: four or five years, and we became the best buddies,

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Speaker 2: comrade guitar players, and we've remained the closest friends. And

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Speaker 2: that's when we've toured together countless times, So we go

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Speaker 2: way back. I didn't know Eric Johnson at all, but

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Speaker 2: in the years leading up to that, I was really

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Speaker 2: a big fan, and we actually toured together and nineteen ninety.

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Speaker 2: But I have to say I didn't I wouldn't say

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Speaker 2: to you like we were best friends or something like that.

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Speaker 2: He was just a guy admired that was on a

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Speaker 2: tour with us for a few weeks in nineteen ninety.

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Speaker 2: I did twist his arm to do some jamming every night,

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Speaker 2: you know, when we completed our set. But he's a

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Speaker 2: much mellower guy than me and my buddies, I guess,

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Speaker 2: so sometimes he would he would decline. Other times I

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Speaker 2: just thought he was amazing, and at that time I

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Speaker 2: thought that he represented a really beautiful forward thinking way

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Speaker 2: of playing the electric guitar that a lot of people

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Speaker 2: didn't know was possible. He really had his own voice

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Speaker 2: and a unique set of influences, and he was so

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Speaker 2: different than Steve and I. We were just Long Island

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Speaker 2: kids listening growing up, listening to Hendrix and Zeppelin and

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Speaker 2: Sabbath and and Eric was exotic by comparison, you know.

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Speaker 2: So it did. Like I said before, it was arm twisting.

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Speaker 2: Because my manager would call their manager, and like just

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Speaker 2: about every other response, there's a there's a guarded response,

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Speaker 2: you know. Each manager is like, well, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know if my artist wants to be seen

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Speaker 2: in this light standing next to that person. And very

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Speaker 2: often the case, I'd reach out to two guitar players

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Speaker 2: and one of them would refuse to play with the

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Speaker 2: other for no reason, you know, stylistic, personal, I don't

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Speaker 2: know what. And I always used to tell them, look

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Speaker 2: that you know, the audience has already decided who their

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Speaker 2: favorite is, so you're not going to change your mind.

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Speaker 2: It's not a contest. It really isn't. You might think

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Speaker 2: it is because that's how we've been brought up in

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Speaker 2: the entertainment industry. But the audience is smarter. They've already

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Speaker 2: made up their mind. They don't really care. They just

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Speaker 2: there's so happy that we're playing together and that we're

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Speaker 2: playing songs that are not us selling like our latest

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Speaker 2: single or something like that. We're actually just relaxed, casually playing.

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Speaker 2: But they do get to see us push each other

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Speaker 2: to excel, and not everyone's comfortable with that. That's cool.

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Speaker 2: Not every artist has the same set of tools, you know,

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Speaker 2: and that's way cool. Steve and I were just so

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Speaker 2: comfortable with it. We just as soon as we're standing

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Speaker 2: next to each other with guitars, we just start seeing

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Speaker 2: how far we can go until someone, you know, taps

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Speaker 2: us on the shoulder and says, okay, that's enough. So

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Speaker 2: not every other guitar player gets that or feels that

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Speaker 2: way naturally, but most do.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So you come up with the idea, you sell

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Speaker 1: the idea, You have to sell promoters first G three

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Speaker 1: to work. What did you learn to actually do it?

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Speaker 1: It's totally different from what you think it might be.

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Speaker 2: Well, the thing that was confirmed was that Steve and

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Speaker 2: I don't need anything to just stand next to each

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Speaker 2: other and start playing. That was a beautiful thing. I

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Speaker 2: just always felt that, and I know that he felt

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Speaker 2: the same way. So there's a It's just the most

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Speaker 2: perfect comfort zone you can imagine. And I can't put

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Speaker 2: it into words. I just know that as soon as

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Speaker 2: we're standing extra other next to each other, when we

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Speaker 2: start playing, we just pick up where we left off.

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Speaker 2: And it's been that way since we were kids. So

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Speaker 2: that was cool. What the other thing that was confirmed

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Speaker 2: was that the audience felt exactly the way I did,

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Speaker 2: which is they really wanted to see this. They really

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Speaker 2: wanted to celebrate with us all the things about the

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Speaker 2: electric guitar that you could do. And let's face it,

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Speaker 2: when you're in a popular band and there's a lot

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Speaker 2: riding on the success of a new album or something,

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Speaker 2: you're guarded. You're putting on a show. You don't show

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Speaker 2: everybody everything. You just show them what you want them

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Speaker 2: to respond to. But this is different. This is a

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Speaker 2: G three tour. This is where you can play whatever

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Speaker 2: you want. It's the complete guitarist safe zone. You can

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Speaker 2: you can be demure, you can be way over the top.

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Speaker 2: Anything is acceptable as long as you do it sort

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Speaker 2: of within the brother and sisterhood of the band. You know,

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Speaker 2: and you know that you're including the audience, they're part

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Speaker 2: of the show. So those are the things that were confirmed.

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Speaker 2: The things that surprised me that the negative things were

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Speaker 2: how some people don't like to play with other people.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of is the thing you learn, like in

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Speaker 2: the in the playground, like when you're a little kid,

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Speaker 2: that there are some kids that love to play with

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Speaker 2: other kids and other kids don't you know, and you

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Speaker 2: just got to learn how to avoid them.

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Speaker 1: Now that you've done so many what have you I

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Speaker 1: learned over the course of all these years.

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Speaker 2: I've learned that it's good for me. Let's put it

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Speaker 2: that way. It is good for my playing, for my creativity,

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Speaker 2: for my continued interest in the electric guitar and in

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Speaker 2: music in general, and that just doing a rehearsed show

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Speaker 2: every night is nowhere near the same as exciting in

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Speaker 2: an almost frightening way that the G three shows are,

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Speaker 2: because well, first of all, you don't have two and

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Speaker 2: a half hours to play all the songs you know,

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Speaker 2: and there's no pacing. Really, you get fifty minutes to

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Speaker 2: go out there, so it's kind of a supercharge set

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Speaker 2: that you do. And then you get to this jam

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Speaker 2: and you if you really feel up to it. You

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Speaker 2: are pushed to your limit and you really don't know

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Speaker 2: what's happening. You just don't know what the guy next

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Speaker 2: to you is going to play. And that's happening here

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Speaker 2: right now on the sash By tour. Because Steve and

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Speaker 2: I are totally crazy. We just don't care if we

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Speaker 2: push ourselves to the brink and we fall off the edge.

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Speaker 2: We find it so much fun and so fascinating, and

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Speaker 2: we know that we've got each other to, you know,

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Speaker 2: to pick each other up if we kind of screw

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Speaker 2: up or go too far.

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Speaker 1: Now, some of the people you've worked with I know personally,

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Speaker 1: some of I don't. They all have different personalities. I

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Speaker 1: have to ask, even though you haven't worked with them

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Speaker 1: very recently. Robert Shripp is known as the guy who

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Speaker 1: loves to rehearse and likes things his way. What was

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Speaker 1: it like having G three with Robert Fripp?

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Speaker 2: It was so great. I mean, he joined us for

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Speaker 2: the first two runs and he insisted this is what

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Speaker 2: he insisted on, and the first time I heard it,

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Speaker 2: I thought it was really He goes, well, I'd like

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Speaker 2: to start the show before, you know, right before you

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Speaker 2: open the doors. I don't want to be lit. I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna set up behind the amp line, and I don't

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Speaker 2: want anyone to announce my name. And we thought, okay,

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Speaker 2: whatever Robert Fripp wants, we will acquiesce, you know. And

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Speaker 2: so sure enough people would come in and they'd be

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Speaker 2: finding their seats, and they'd be hearing this beautiful music soundscapes,

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Speaker 2: and people who knew about Robert Frip would immediately start

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Speaker 2: to look and go, hey, I think that's Robert Frip

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Speaker 2: up there playing, and other people wouldn't pay attention at

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Speaker 2: all if they weren't, you know, familiar with Robert's music.

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Speaker 2: And then the lights would go down and the show

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Speaker 2: would start, and you know, I think we had Kenny

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Speaker 2: Wayne Sheppard actually opening up. The first G three's actually

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Speaker 2: were like fives G fives in a way. But yeah, Robert.

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Speaker 2: You know what comes to mind is this photograph that

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Speaker 2: really stuck with me for years, which was I think

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Speaker 2: it was we were playing maybe Jones Beach or something

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Speaker 2: like that, and there's a picture of Robert Fripp by

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Speaker 2: his gear with his guitar on. Standing next to him

302
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Speaker 2: is a four year old ZZ holding a plastic pail

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Speaker 2: and shovel and to me, that was just like the

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Speaker 2: beauty of the tour is that it really was a

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Speaker 2: relaxed family atmosphere when it was at its best, everyone

306
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Speaker 2: was so happy to be on the tour and knowing

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Speaker 2: as I said before, it was a safe place for

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Speaker 2: guitar players. But it was just a really happy group

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Speaker 2: of musicians and crew, and almost all of them were

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Speaker 2: like that. We only had a few that had the

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Speaker 2: usual tensions here and there, but they and last you.

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Speaker 1: Know, okay, through the magic of the Internet setlist FM

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Speaker 1: one can look up because some of these dates have

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Speaker 1: already played that. After you and Steve do your independent performances,

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Speaker 1: you get together and you do covers, you do entersand me,

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Speaker 1: how did you decide on these covers?

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Speaker 2: Well, recently for this tour, I actually was leaning heavily

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Speaker 2: on my keyboard player, Ray Thistlethwaite. He was an amazing singer.

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Speaker 2: He's from the Australian band Thirsty Murk and he's just

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Speaker 2: a brilliant overall musician, just brilliant keyboard player, great singer,

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Speaker 2: frontman when he's in his own environment and he's even

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Speaker 2: I don't know how he puts up with me, but

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Speaker 2: he plays rhythm, guitar and keyboards for me, and occasionally

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Speaker 2: we lean on him to sing. So I thought I

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Speaker 2: should just check with Ray some of these weird ideas

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Speaker 2: I have. So we were just texting beforehand, like what

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Speaker 2: do you feel like singing? Can you sing this? Can

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Speaker 2: you sing that? And we just threw threw out some

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Speaker 2: silly songs, and at one point I thought, I want

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Speaker 2: to do a Metallica song. And I don't know why

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Speaker 2: it dawned on me. I just thought, you know, maybe

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Speaker 2: because he's he had just recently interviewed Kirk for the documentary,

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Speaker 2: but so Kirk was on my mind. So I just

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Speaker 2: I thought, what would be a fun song to do

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Speaker 2: where we could stretch somewhere, you know, we could stretch

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Speaker 2: it out and improvise around it. And I thought of

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Speaker 2: Enter Sandman. But when I texted it to Ray, I

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Speaker 2: was actually joking because he Ray's got a beautiful voice

339
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Speaker 2: and he doesn't sound like James Headfield at all. But

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Speaker 2: the response was positive and immediate from Ray. He was like, no,

341
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Speaker 2: we got to do that song. I want to do it.

342
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Speaker 2: So that's how that happened. And then I wanted to

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Speaker 2: balance it with something really old and so I picked

344
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Speaker 2: the Kinks. He really got me. I thought that would

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Speaker 2: be a really great one. And for the first time,

346
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Speaker 2: actually we're playing a song that's one of ours. So

347
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Speaker 2: the first piece of music that I wrote for our

348
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Speaker 2: collaboration is a song called the Sea of Emotion Part one,

349
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Speaker 2: and we decided to play that as our first song.

350
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Speaker 2: And it kind of makes sense since it's not a

351
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Speaker 2: G three, you know, it really is a satch by tour.

352
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Speaker 2: So and that's great because it has special meaning to

353
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Speaker 2: both Steve and I.

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Speaker 1: So, okay, let's go back to something earlier you said

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Speaker 1: about rock instrumentals. From your viewpoint, what is the state

356
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Speaker 1: of rock instrumentals? Verging into what is the state of

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Speaker 1: rock and roll? Because not only are you making this music,

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Speaker 1: you've made the music, you're seeing the audience live on

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Speaker 1: the road.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well know, everything is Brian Eno said, you know,

361
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Speaker 2: everything is context with music. It has grown over the decades,

362
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Speaker 2: over the centuries, So today everything is context. You can

363
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:20,199
Speaker 2: get music everywhere, and the context of at hand is

364
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Speaker 2: the most important thing. Not everything works in an elevator

365
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 2: or you know, Carls Junior, or in your car, at

366
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Speaker 2: a concert hall or at a convention, you know, in

367
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Speaker 2: the lobby of a hotel, a club. It's just there's

368
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 2: so many contexts where full fidelity modern music or recorded

369
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Speaker 2: music is perfect. So where does instrumental rock music belong.

370
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Speaker 2: I have no idea. All I know is that I

371
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 2: am a child of rock and roll. I love rock bands,

372
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 2: I love melody, I love harmony. I was taught music

373
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Speaker 2: theory in high school by a Julia graduate who was

374
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 2: a brilliant teacher that somehow got stuck in this teeny

375
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 2: little public high school in car Place. And so I've

376
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 2: got these influences from my older siblings. I'm the youngest

377
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:23,199
Speaker 2: of five and my parents were total jazz freaks, so

378
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 2: my influences are huge, and I love all of it.

379
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Speaker 2: I love dense harmony. I love complicated and simple, but

380
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Speaker 2: if it doesn't have a great melody, I don't really

381
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 2: like it. So I've never been into complicated music because

382
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Speaker 2: it's complicated. I see no charm in that whatsoever. And

383
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Speaker 2: I know that music is I mean, musicians are supposed

384
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Speaker 2: to make music for people. That's what we're supposed to do.

385
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Speaker 2: So we're supposed to make music to accompany life, and

386
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Speaker 2: life is crazy, and sometimes you need music to commiserate with,

387
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 2: sometimes to celebrate with everything in between. So when I

388
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 2: was a young kid, I realized that the intervals, the

389
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 2: space is between the notes and the relationship between the

390
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 2: melody and the harmony of the most important mood creators ever,

391
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:24,160
Speaker 2: that tells the story. And if you've got lyrics, then

392
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 2: you're telling the audience exactly what you want them to think.

393
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 2: And if you don't have lyrics, well then you've really

394
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 2: given them a gift where they can listen to Moonlight

395
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Speaker 2: Sonata and decide for themselves whether it's a happy song

396
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,640
Speaker 2: or a sad one, and they can use it as

397
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Speaker 2: they like. And I love that. So like when I

398
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 2: was a kid and I heard Third Stone from the

399
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 2: Sun by Hendrix, it was cathartic, it was beautiful, and

400
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 2: I thought, wow, this is amazing, this is like so powerful.

401
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 2: And I knew he was being funny at times with

402
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 2: the song, but to me, the music was so powerful.

403
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 2: It reminded me of listening to Miles Davis or West

404
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 2: Montgomery coming from my parents' living room.

405
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 1: Or.

406
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 2: Hearing classical music and just love feeling the power of

407
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 2: the music in an emotional way and how it stimulated

408
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 2: my mind thinking of new things, bringing back old memories,

409
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 2: things like that. But I was this rock kid. I

410
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 2: still love the Stones and the Beatles. I started out

411
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 2: as a drummer. I studied for three years until I

412
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 2: figured out I was going to suck, and I became

413
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Speaker 2: a Hendrix fanatic. And when he died, I decided that

414
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 2: very day I was going to pick up the guitar

415
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Speaker 2: and I was going to dedicate myself to playing the guitar.

416
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Speaker 1: But I wait, wait, wait, wait, wait wait wait, wait

417
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,719
Speaker 1: a little bit slower. You're growing up in Long Island. Okay,

418
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Speaker 1: what are your parents do for a living?

419
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Speaker 2: My father was an engineer. He was super smart. He

420
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 2: got out of college maybe three years ahead of time,

421
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 2: went to work for Sperry Gyroscope. I think they eventually

422
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 2: were called Sperry. He was there for maybe thirty years,

423
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 2: and then he moved on to Raytheon or a few

424
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 2: other companies until he retired. My mother was a school

425
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 2: teacher her whole life. And my three sisters, older sisters

426
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 2: and one older brother, all smart. None of them is

427
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 2: silly enough to take up a career in music. But

428
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,239
Speaker 2: I have to say growing up on Long Island was

429
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 2: at that time was the best thing ever, I mean

430
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 2: the freedom. First of all, my parents were tired by

431
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 2: the time I came around, so I benefited from my

432
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 2: siblings breaking them down continually for years and years, and

433
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 2: then I came along and they're like, okay, whatever you know,

434
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 2: do whatever you want. Plus the sixties happened, right, So

435
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 2: I turned fourteen in nineteen seventy and as you well know,

436
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 2: from fifty nine to sixty nine, all hell breaks loose

437
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 2: in America, and so I just you know, I mean,

438
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 2: my rock band practice in the basement, and my parents

439
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 2: would woo.

440
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: A little bit slower. Okay, you're the fifth of five children.

441
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: You're the parents are not in the house all day

442
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 1: because they're working. Are you a goodie goodie getting good grades?

443
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: Are you someone who's dedicated to baseball? What's your life

444
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: like before this music thing becomes an obsession?

445
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,360
Speaker 2: You know? I started out as a good kid, and

446
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 2: I was on all the teams. I played football and baseball,

447
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 2: and I was on the wrestling team. I was on

448
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 2: the fitness team until they tried to get me to

449
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 2: cut my hair, which was extremely long at the time.

450
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 2: But I was also in a band, so I should

451
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 2: point out the car place one national championships four years

452
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 2: in a row, when my brother and I were on

453
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 2: the team. But that's you say, the fitness team. People

454
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 2: don't even know what that means anymore. That's like saying

455
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 2: music theory classes in public high school. People don't know that.

456
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 2: But back then in New York there was a board

457
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 2: of regents. Education in public schools was actually really good.

458
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,400
Speaker 2: So I didn't do well. I was in Catholic school

459
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 2: for the first five years and got in trouble all

460
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 2: the time, until both my parents and the nuns and

461
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 2: the priests decided that kids got to go.

462
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: He said, wait, wait, wait, what kind of trouble were

463
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: you getting into.

464
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 2: Well, I, first of all, I couldn't believe anything they

465
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 2: were trying to teach me. I'm and I made a

466
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 2: point of raising my hand and saying, well, that can't

467
00:28:54,400 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 2: be right. How does that work? And yeah, so I

468
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 2: you know, I've always had a problem with that. So

469
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 2: when I got to public school, it was like I

470
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 2: could exhale finally, you know, I felt so free. All

471
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 2: the kids were different, You could express yourself, and there

472
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 2: were music classes, I mean, that's crazy. And there were

473
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 2: sports classes, so I mean, you could physically exert yourself.

474
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,719
Speaker 2: And I, you know, I'm not a big guy or anything,

475
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 2: but when you're that young, most everyone's the same size.

476
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 2: And by the time I got around to quitting the

477
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,479
Speaker 2: football team was the right time because at that age,

478
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 2: big guys are going to start getting big and if

479
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 2: you're not one of them, you're going to get creamed

480
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 2: on the football field. And so it turned out that

481
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 2: the timing was right for me to move on and

482
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 2: to become a full time musician. By then, though, I

483
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 2: benefited from the fact that I had a good upbringing

484
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 2: about exercising in health and whatnot. So I think that

485
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 2: I I mean, when I walked out of the coach's office,

486
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 2: I was standing up straight. I was a strong kid,

487
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 2: not very big, but very strong and healthy, and I

488
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 2: knew what I was doing. So I felt really good,

489
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 2: even though I was traumatized by the death of Jimmy Hendrix.

490
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: Okay, what inspired you to pick up drums? And what

491
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: was that three years like?

492
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 2: Oh, it was seeing the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan Show.

493
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 2: As soon as I started to hear Dave Clark five Beatles,

494
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 2: the Stones, all the British invasion stuff that my older

495
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 2: siblings were listening to it just transformed my life. I

496
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 2: would just spend hours in front of a little portable

497
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 2: record player they had, and I just destroyed those LPs

498
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 2: and singles. I just played them hours and hours until

499
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 2: they made me stop. It was a beautiful world. And

500
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 2: when I got to see Ringo and Charlie Watts playing

501
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 2: on television, that's you know, I mean, what kid doesn't

502
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 2: want to make a lot of noise? And drums make a.

503
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: Lot of noise.

504
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 2: So I actually took lessons for three years from a

505
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 2: guy I realized I never knew his first name. I

506
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 2: always knew him as mister Patricuz. I don't know where

507
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 2: my parents found him, probably in some jazz club because

508
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 2: he'd always show up in a sharkskin suit. Very cool character.

509
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 2: You know. He'd sit in the in the kitchen and

510
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 2: have coffee with my parents and then he'd go down

511
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 2: to the basement and he teached me for a half hour.

512
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 2: And that went on for a couple of years, and

513
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 2: you know, I learned how to read and to play

514
00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 2: all the all the stuff, and he would, you know,

515
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 2: teach me the beatles and stones, all the stuff I

516
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 2: was into. But ultimately, I mean I didn't know it

517
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 2: at the time, but now I can look back and

518
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 2: say I was a bit too spacey to be a drummer,

519
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 2: because a drummer has to be attentive to every millisecond

520
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 2: of a song. They are, they're responsible for keeping it.

521
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 2: You know, they're driving the bus. Basically everyone else is,

522
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 2: especially guitar players, are changing seats all the time on

523
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 2: the bus. But the drummer is driving the bus. And

524
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 2: I started not to realize that I wasn't cut out

525
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 2: for that. I wanted to float on top. And when

526
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 2: rock music really became rock music what sixty six maybe,

527
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 2: you know, when there was a shift from rock and

528
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 2: roll to like rock songs that weren't about boys and

529
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 2: girls and stuff, and you start to hear different sounds

530
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 2: coming out of the guitars. I started to feel like

531
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 2: I was, you know, playing the wrong instrument. And my

532
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 2: older sister's boyfriends were fascinated by the fact that I

533
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 2: loved anything that they would bring over. So they'd bring

534
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 2: over the latest Who record or Hendrix or anything, and

535
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 2: they'd play it for me just to look at my reaction.

536
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 2: And of course I was enthralled by all of it.

537
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 2: But Hendricks changed my DNA. As soon as I heard

538
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 2: the first song, I just my whole life was different,

539
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 2: and I knew that that was a path. I just

540
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 2: couldn't intellectually understand what it was going to do to

541
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 2: me until until I found out that he died, and

542
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 2: then I knew exactly what I was going to do.

543
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: Okay, you're living in Westbury? Are you going to shows

544
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: Westbury Music Fair?

545
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 2: Yeah? My very first two shows I saw Chicago when

546
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 2: they were called Chicago Transit Authority. They're absolutely amazing. Terry

547
00:33:55,240 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 2: cath On guitar. Wow, fantastic. That's a funny place, I

548
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 2: mean because it's in the round, so that you know,

549
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 2: right the stage spins. I got to play there for

550
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 2: the first time ever back in twenty nineteen with Kenny

551
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 2: and Doug. We were on the Experience Hendricks Tour. What

552
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 2: a trip. And then about a week later I went

553
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,800
Speaker 2: to see Jethro Tull there. They were absolutely fabulous, just amazing,

554
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 2: so two completely unique bands for the time. It was

555
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 2: just fantastic. I absolutely loved it, and I'd go to

556
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 2: the film more. I remember seeing Steve Miller at the

557
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 2: fillmore that I think the week that Hendricks died, it

558
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 2: was the first time I went to the Fillmore East

559
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 2: and saw Steve play. You know, he tells me a

560
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 2: funny story about that, because I remember I was sitting

561
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 2: in the balcony with all the grown ups. You know,

562
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 2: I was just a little kid, and I just the

563
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:55,240
Speaker 2: whole thing was magic, just like this is. I remember thinking,

564
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 2: this is when I grow up. This is what I

565
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 2: want to do. I want to hang out to rock music.

566
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 2: And I remember the first time I got to play

567
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 2: with Steve. I told him the story about what a

568
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 2: magical show that was, and he said to me, his

569
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 2: perspective was totally different. Whereas Mungo Jerry was on that

570
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 2: show and they had hit at the time in the summertime,

571
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 2: and Bill innocently had given out plastic red plastic clown

572
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,240
Speaker 2: noses to the audience for some reason to celebrate this song,

573
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 2: I guess. And so when Mungo Jerry played, and I

574
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 2: think there's another band called Clouds that played as well,

575
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 2: you know, they played the hit and everyone was happy

576
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 2: and everything was fun. And then Steve comes out, and

577
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 2: of course it's kind of somber because Hendricks has just

578
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 2: died and Steve wants to come out and play a

579
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 2: set playing tribute to Jimmy Hendricks, except that everyone's got

580
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 2: these clown noses and they start throwing them on stage.

581
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 2: And I don't remember that I was sitting in the balcony.

582
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 2: I don't remember that aspect of it, maybe because I

583
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:07,439
Speaker 2: was getting high from all the smoke. But anyway, Yeah,

584
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 2: we used to go there, Gaelic Park, Academy of Music.

585
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 2: I mean, there's so many places, even out to the island,

586
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 2: like to Coomac and watch all the bands touring.

587
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: Okay, let's reel it back. I remember where I was

588
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 1: when I heard Hendricks died, so literally, how did you hear?

589
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 1: And there was a schism? And then how long until

590
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 1: you took this left turn and started to play the guitar?

591
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 2: Oh wow. I was all suited up for football practice

592
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 2: at Carplace High School. I was right outside the gym

593
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 2: and a teammate said, Hey, I heard that guy that

594
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 2: you really liked died, Jimmy Hendrix. And see what was

595
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 2: Uh I'm trying to I can't remember his name, but

596
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,280
Speaker 2: I I just stood there and I looked at myself,

597
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 2: you know, in this cheap football outfit that the high

598
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 2: school could afford, and I just thought I can't do

599
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 2: this anymore. This is this is you know, I can't

600
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 2: do it. I don't love and I know, And right

601
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 2: then I knew what I really wanted to do, so

602
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 2: I just turned around. I went inside. I went into

603
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 2: coach Redden's office and I said something like, Jimmy Hendricks

604
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 2: has died, and I'm gonna you know, I can't be

605
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 2: on the football team because I'm going to devote my

606
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 2: life to the guitar. And I maybe, I mean most

607
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 2: likely because I wasn't such a valued team member. He

608
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 2: probably didn't put up much of a fuss, but he went, okay,

609
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 2: I take off your stuff and you know, put it

610
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 2: in the locker. So I walked home that night, and

611
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 2: over a typical Italian American dinner, I stood up and

612
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 2: told everybody that Jimmy Hendricks had died and I was

613
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 2: going to be a guitar player. And then there's a

614
00:37:55,520 --> 00:38:00,760
Speaker 2: lot of yelling and screaming, but eventually worked out.

615
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,439
Speaker 1: Okay, first and foremost, you need a guitar. So where

616
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:05,240
Speaker 1: do you get a guitar?

617
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 2: Well, you know, there's a little bit of backstory to that,

618
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 2: which is that my sister Marion was a folk guitar

619
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 2: player growing up, and I actually got to see her

620
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,760
Speaker 2: perform at her school a few times, and of course

621
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 2: i'd witness her playing in the backyard, playing in the

622
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 2: corner of her room, very quietly, not bothering anybody. And

623
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 2: it wasn't lost on me that it was a more

624
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 2: personal instrument, that she could really enjoy music and express

625
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 2: herself without announcing it to the entire house, like if

626
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 2: you're a drummer, you know where everybody hears everything you do.

627
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 2: And I hadn't really thought very much about that, you know,

628
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 2: bringing that into my life until that moment when over dinner,

629
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:57,720
Speaker 2: I announced I was going to be a guitar player,

630
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 2: and my sister Marian said, well, you can borrow them

631
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 2: on you can start with that. And then my other sister, Carol,

632
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 2: who had just started teaching at art at Westbury High School,

633
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 2: said that she would donate her first week's paycheck for

634
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,959
Speaker 2: an electric guitar, which was at Roosevelt Field. I don't

635
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 2: know if you remember Roosevelt Field in the Island, the

636
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 2: first shopping malls, and Matthew's music was there, and they

637
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,359
Speaker 2: had a guitar that I had that I had been

638
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 2: looking at because it kind of looked like Jimmy's white stratocaster.

639
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 2: But I think in my little brain at the time,

640
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 2: I didn't know there was Fender Gibson or in this

641
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 2: case Hackstrom. But this was one hundred and twenty dollars

642
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 2: Hackstrom three guitar, a low cost Swedish guitar. And so

643
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 2: we went there about a week or so and she

644
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 2: was kind enough to purchase the guitar for me. And

645
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:57,359
Speaker 2: I had a My family had a woolen sack tape

646
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 2: recorder that they used to use to record or Jesuit

647
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 2: speeches all the time. And so since my parents had

648
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 2: already gone through the drum face and I didn't have

649
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 2: a big drum kit, it took years, you know, to

650
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 2: pay off, like getting each little piece. I started with

651
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 2: a pad, and then a snare drum, and then this

652
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 2: and that. You know, they were a little skeptical and

653
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 2: they weren't about to go out and get me an amplifier.

654
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 2: So they said, well, maybe you can use this, And

655
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 2: so for I don't know, six months, i'd plug into

656
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 2: this woolen sack tape recorder and the only way I

657
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 2: could hear myself would be to record, and I would

658
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 2: record over the jesuit speeches, sorry Jesuits, and then I'd

659
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,840
Speaker 2: listen to myself. And this was key to my development

660
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 2: because usual beginners, they you know, the moment passes and

661
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 2: they don't know how much they suck, you know. But

662
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 2: I knew because I realized when I'd finished playing for

663
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 2: ten minutes, I go, oh, I can listen to myself

664
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 2: back now, and I'd play it back and I'd go like,

665
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 2: oh my god, I'm the worst. How am I going

666
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 2: to get better? So it was it was a good

667
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 2: tool actually, because I started to realize, you know, you

668
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 2: got to play in tune, you got to play in time.

669
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 2: There's such a thing as tone. There's a lot to

670
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 2: work on.

671
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: Okay, are you taking lessons? How are you're learning out

672
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: of play?

673
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 2: No? I had a magic chord sheet that was in

674
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 2: my sister's guitar case, the Nylon. She played a Nylon

675
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 2: acoustic and she was the one who said, you know,

676
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 2: you have to learn chords, so here take this sheet

677
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,399
Speaker 2: and it was about seventeen twenty chords. So that's how

678
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 2: I started, and I started to realize that I moved

679
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 2: my If I took one finger off a chord, the

680
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 2: sound was somewhat similar to what i'd heard on the

681
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 2: radio or on a record, and I found that really fascinating.

682
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 2: So I just thought, well, I'll memorize these and then

683
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 2: I'll make a sort of a mental note that when

684
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 2: I lift off my third finger, it's this extra version

685
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 2: of this chord. And later on I learned I was

686
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 2: doing suspensions what we call in music suspensions, and changing

687
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 2: thirds to fourths or thirds to seconds and things like that.

688
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 2: But I would because I couldn't. I wasn't taking lessons

689
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:29,280
Speaker 2: from somebody who was teaching me songs. I just started

690
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 2: writing my own songs and I thought, well, somewhere the

691
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 2: on line, i'll just get better. And so a lot

692
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 2: of what I learned in the first six months or so,

693
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 2: I was just learning how to write it with my

694
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 2: limited vocabulary.

695
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: Okay, it's not a heavy lift to learn a few

696
00:42:56,280 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: chords play song, as you know, but from there to

697
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 1: a level of facility is unbelievably frustrating.

698
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, did you.

699
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 1: Ever vary in your dedication? Did you ever say, well,

700
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: maybe the guitar is not for me. How did you

701
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: deal with the frustration of gaining your skills?

702
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 2: Well, there are two things that I would point to

703
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 2: number one. I realized early on that I had the

704
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 2: ability to play a song from start to finish, and

705
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 2: I knew, you know, deep inside, I knew this was

706
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 2: an important thing because I had been playing drums, and

707
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 2: although I was never in a band, we used to

708
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 2: play my friends and I and I realized you got

709
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 2: to start, keep going, don't stop, and then end. That's

710
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 2: what playing music for people is all about. So that

711
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 2: became a skill that I just assumed you got to

712
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 2: have that, that you got to do that. You may

713
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 2: not be the fastest drummer, the loudest drummer, or the

714
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,800
Speaker 2: the most complicated, but once you start, you got to

715
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 2: keep going until the song is over. So I applied

716
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 2: that to the guitar. And then after a number of months,

717
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 2: some older kids in the school must have heard me

718
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 2: playing somewhere at high school, they invited me into the

719
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 2: band and they were fascinated with the same thing that

720
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,320
Speaker 2: I could just sit there and hang with them without

721
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 2: being given direction. They'd start a you know, some Joe

722
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 2: walshong or something, you know, and they and I'd say, well,

723
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 2: what are the chords, and they say, well, it's just

724
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 2: kind of like does this thing at a minor, and

725
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 2: I'd be comfortable with that, and I could hang with

726
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 2: that and go back and forth and play things around it,

727
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 2: because that's how I taught myself, which is to to

728
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 2: build a personal vocabulary around chords as a way of

729
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 2: making music. And so they asked me to join the

730
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 2: It was fascinating because I really did not have the

731
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 2: technique like what you're talking about, but I could carry

732
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 2: a song with the limited technique that I had, and

733
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,359
Speaker 2: I just learned not to show people what I couldn't do,

734
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 2: just focus on what I was capable of doing and

735
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 2: get the song finished. And I found that there was

736
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 2: so much to share with the bass player, the drummer

737
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 2: and the other guitar player on a musical level. It

738
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 2: was like you started speaking a foreign language that you

739
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 2: were really good at that you didn't know you were

740
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,839
Speaker 2: good at, and other people in your band knew that

741
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 2: language too, and you would converse during a song and

742
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 2: you would throw things back and forth and have some fun.

743
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 2: And I thought, wow, this is the most important technique

744
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 2: because we would be doing this at a party in

745
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 2: a backyard or at a high school dance where your

746
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 2: peers were ruthless. If you didn't play well, they'd let

747
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:08,240
Speaker 2: you know right away. But I learned the importance of

748
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 2: being able to play music first and foremost, rather than

749
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:18,760
Speaker 2: acquiring technical skills. It was, in fact that the best,

750
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 2: the most important umbrella of technical skills. But it just

751
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 2: didn't have They didn't have names, you know what I mean.

752
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 2: They weren't written down in books, you know, like chapter one, Start,

753
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 2: don't stop, finish you know number two. Pay attention to

754
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 2: the audience. Lift them up when they want to be

755
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:37,400
Speaker 2: lifted up, bring them down when they want to go down.

756
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,800
Speaker 2: These are the things you learn only by playing for people,

757
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:46,839
Speaker 2: your siblings, your parents. You play in a kindergarten, you

758
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 2: play in a club, you play in an arena. It

759
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 2: doesn't matter where you're playing. You still got to make

760
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 2: it work for the audience. So that was part of

761
00:46:55,600 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 2: my earliest instruction was playing for people. And I loved it.

762
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 2: I was terrified. I'm still terrified, but I love it

763
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:10,319
Speaker 2: as well. But on the other side of it, I

764
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 2: had a hunger for music. I really wanted to understand

765
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 2: the mystery of music. When I heard Beethoven, I thought,

766
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 2: this is so beautiful. What does he know? How does

767
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:28,800
Speaker 2: he put that together? I remember sitting in my bedroom

768
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:33,839
Speaker 2: one afternoon and Roundabout came on the radio, and I

769
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 2: remember staring at the radio and I admitted to myself,

770
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 2: I don't know what is going on, Like, what are

771
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 2: they doing? How do they know how to put this

772
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 2: all together and play together? It sounds so complicated to me,

773
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 2: but deep inside I knew it was. I bet there's

774
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:52,760
Speaker 2: an e minor chord in there somewhere. They're just doing

775
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 2: it better than the way.

776
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 1: I do it.

777
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:59,319
Speaker 2: And just about that time, the music teacher at my

778
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 2: high schools offered a music theory class and I just

779
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 2: jumped on it. And it was fascinating because he just

780
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 2: opened up the world of music to me and he

781
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 2: answered all those questions. He taught me ear training, taught

782
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 2: me every scale, every mode, taught me how to write

783
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:22,280
Speaker 2: a cantata theme in variations, every trick that every composer

784
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 2: had used for the last four hundred years. We went

785
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 2: over it in school and I loved it. And he

786
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:33,919
Speaker 2: didn't care that I played Black Sabbath really loud most

787
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 2: of the time when I wasn't at school. He would

788
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:38,399
Speaker 2: just sit down and show me, like, you know, this

789
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 2: is just music and you can apply it to any style,

790
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 2: and so it was a wonderful time, very fruitful learning

791
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:47,240
Speaker 2: experience that I had in high school.

792
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 1: Okay, this band that you joined, how old are you

793
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 1: when you joined that band?

794
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 2: I was still fourteen and I'd been playing less than

795
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 2: a year. The name of the band was pronounced Mishwa Khan,

796
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 2: but it was really Mohakan. Of course we didn't know that.

797
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 2: I think they named it after some weed that they

798
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 2: had purchased from somebody. And I'm still friends with all

799
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 2: of them. I just saw the bass player and the

800
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 2: drummer just two days ago, and all still playing to

801
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 2: some degree. But they had the good sense to develop

802
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 2: professional lives, real jobs. But I love that experience. And

803
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 2: you know the difference when you're fourteen and you're playing

804
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 2: with a sixteen year old, that's like they're really old.

805
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 2: And so I paid attention and I learned every moment

806
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 2: that I was playing with them about, you know, how

807
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 2: to play music with people and how to play music

808
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:54,720
Speaker 2: for people, And those two things were the I always

809
00:49:54,880 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 2: realized were the foremost. It's not about achieving a technical

810
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 2: level for yourself or for itself. I don't know if

811
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 2: I'm expressing myself correct. Yeah, you know what I mean.

812
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 2: You can get fascinated with just sitting there and playing

813
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 2: something just a little faster, a little bit more compliment.

814
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 2: Maybe it's because I loved simple music as much as

815
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,320
Speaker 2: I loved complex music. To me, it was just music.

816
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:29,320
Speaker 2: And I used to watch my parents with the jesuits,

817
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 2: you know, drinking scotch, smoking cigarettes, playing folk music on

818
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 2: my sister's guitar, having a great time. I used to

819
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 2: watch them have parties listening to jazz. I watched my

820
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 2: sisters dancing to motown music, funk music, my brother playing

821
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 2: harmonica to Muddy Waters music. And it always seemed to

822
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:54,760
Speaker 2: me the music was something that accompanied us in our lives.

823
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 2: It was part of the expression of being alive. That

824
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 2: was the most important part. And so how could you

825
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:06,360
Speaker 2: how could you rate you know, Beethoven, Miles, Muddy Waters,

826
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 2: Pete Townsend. I mean, you can't say one's better than

827
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 2: the other. These are giants. They've learned how to transcend

828
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 2: their instruments and make life, you know, with sound. It's

829
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 2: just I was fascinated with that.

830
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 1: Okay, so you join this band when you're fourteen. Musicians

831
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 1: all have different experiences, some have one band they go

832
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 1: from band to band others. You know, they're out till

833
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: one in the morning, playing three sets. Their schools suffers.

834
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 1: So you're fourteen, that's about the time you're freshman in

835
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 1: high school. What is your band situation in playing out?

836
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 1: While you're in high school? We do.

837
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 2: High school dances, backyard parties in the summer, we do

838
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 2: Battle of the Bands, lots of that. Within about a year,

839
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 2: our drummer decides he's going to go to Cornell. He

840
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:09,959
Speaker 2: was smart, Tom Gar very smart, still a very smart guy,

841
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 2: teaches economics and in Atlanta right now. And then there

842
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 2: was some rumblings about, you know, we should get this

843
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:20,839
Speaker 2: guy in the band, that kind of man. Typical high

844
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 2: school stuffs as the social scene changes, and then we

845
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 2: wind up with a different drummer, and then it's some

846
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 2: So if Mishwa Khan becomes Tarsus and Tarsus becomes a band,

847
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 2: that's I'm in for a good year and a half,

848
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 2: two years. We have two singers. At one point I

849
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 2: meet some crazy you know this boy that era, that

850
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 2: period from fourteen to twenty one is insane. It's just

851
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 2: if you can get through it, God bless you. You know,

852
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:54,360
Speaker 2: I don't know how we get through those those years,

853
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 2: but so much fun, so much drama, but through it

854
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 2: all well, you know, I moved on from that hackstrum.

855
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 2: I was able to We used to have classified papers

856
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:09,760
Speaker 2: back then, and you'd be able to find people selling stuff.

857
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 2: I wound up buying a telecaster, sixty eight telecaster, and

858
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:18,319
Speaker 2: then I traded it for a Less Paul a little

859
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 2: bit later. And I think this is because the other

860
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 2: guitar player, John Ricchio, it was really brilliant guitarist. I

861
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,800
Speaker 2: learned so much from him. He was really into the

862
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 2: James Gang. And when when Joe Wall switched to less Paul,

863
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:38,799
Speaker 2: I was unaware of this. John eventually said, you got

864
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:40,479
Speaker 2: to get rid of that Telly and get a less Paul,

865
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 2: and so I moved into the less Paul thing. Never

866
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 2: stayed in tune God Almighty those late sixties less Pauls,

867
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:52,760
Speaker 2: and didn't really move on to playing like a Fender

868
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 2: Stratu till I moved out to Berkeley, California. But we

869
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 2: had so much fun. I mean, just the craziest of

870
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 2: times that you know, I mean, when you're doing that,

871
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:10,719
Speaker 2: when you're playing, when you're when you're playing bars and

872
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 2: you're fifteen years old. You're living a life that you know,

873
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 2: you thought only grown ups lived, you know, but you

874
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 2: see just the craziest part of life. You know, people

875
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 2: are smoking and drinking and getting in fights and getting

876
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 2: in trouble, and there's basically sex, drugs and rock and roll.

877
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 2: But you still have to go back to school, you know,

878
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 2: at when Monday morning comes. And we used to you know,

879
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 2: sometimes I remember, for a good long time, I must

880
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:47,760
Speaker 2: have been in tenth or eleventh grade at the time,

881
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:51,880
Speaker 2: we drove out to the Hamptons and found a gig.

882
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 2: I'm not even sure how we got this gig, but

883
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:56,799
Speaker 2: we found a weekend gig and we started to go

884
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 2: out there and do these little road trips. And my parents,

885
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 2: as I said before, had kind of given up trying

886
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 2: to raise me as a normal person. Had let me

887
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 2: go with the guys and hang out. And there would

888
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:14,319
Speaker 2: be like twelve of us in one bedroom cabin in

889
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:17,760
Speaker 2: the back of a club somewhere, staying for the weekend.

890
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 2: But it was fun. I mean, I just learned so

891
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 2: much about playing music for people during that, because you know,

892
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 2: when you're on stage and you're playing, even if you're

893
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 2: in the corner of a little club. You're observing people

894
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 2: when they don't think anybody's watching. You just see their

895
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 2: lives play out. They're just they're getting loose and they're

896
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 2: doing everything right in front of you, and they don't

897
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 2: think you're watching, but you are. And it made a

898
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 2: big impression on me, not only the reaction to the

899
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:52,320
Speaker 2: way that I played in the songs that we played,

900
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 2: but I just learned by watching, just like you would

901
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 2: watch if you were if you were into baseball, and

902
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 2: you're watching a baseball game and someone does something good,

903
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:08,560
Speaker 2: you say, I should try to do that, and then

904
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 2: when you see somebody screw up, you go, I should

905
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:13,839
Speaker 2: make sure I don't do any of that. So that's

906
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 2: what I would see night after night, even though I

907
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 2: was just a teenager.

908
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:20,839
Speaker 1: So you graduate from high school then what.

909
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 2: I graduate early. Actually, there was about six of us

910
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 2: that we had good grades at that point and they

911
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 2: felt better if we left, and so they allowed us

912
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:40,799
Speaker 2: to take two of every subject for the first half

913
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 2: of the year, so that we graduated in January. And

914
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:45,880
Speaker 2: I loved it. I just thought that was the greatest

915
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:50,760
Speaker 2: thing ever. So myself, I think my girlfriend at the time,

916
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 2: and a few other friends. I didn't know them too well,

917
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:56,960
Speaker 2: so we I mean, it was heaven for me because

918
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 2: I took two music theory classes and that's what I loved,

919
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 2: and the other classes are okay. I mean it was

920
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:09,959
Speaker 2: a bit simpler back then. I was taking French and humanities.

921
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 2: I think they called it something that was the offshoot

922
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:13,879
Speaker 2: of geography and math.

923
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:14,960
Speaker 1: And social studies.

924
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 2: Social studies, Yes, yeah, that's right. So yeah. So in

925
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 2: January I was out and I thought I'm just going

926
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 2: to start working full time. It was kind of rough.

927
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 2: I didn't really land the gig until I started at

928
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 2: Five Towns Music College the following September, which didn't last

929
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 2: long at all. It was an absolute joke. I knew

930
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 2: way more than every teacher in the school that they

931
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 2: had at the time. The college has turned into a

932
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 2: really great school, but that first year, that was their

933
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:56,520
Speaker 2: first year and they had some different ideas about what

934
00:57:56,600 --> 00:58:00,480
Speaker 2: teachers could be. And I mean Bill Wescott, music teacher

935
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 2: at high school. He gave us a university level education.

936
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 2: So I went in there knowing everything, and every time

937
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 2: they would play a wrong scale, I'd raise my hand

938
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 2: and go, you know, that's not what you just said.

939
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 2: You did, and so I didn't make friends there either.

940
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 2: But two things happened that were important, which is I

941
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:22,360
Speaker 2: got introduced to someone who was playing in a disco

942
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 2: band and they put guys on salary, and this was

943
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 2: important for a young kid looking for a job. And

944
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:34,919
Speaker 2: so I joined this disco band and I actually got

945
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 2: I made money every week, I got a paycheck. And

946
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 2: at the time, they didn't call it disco. They called

947
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 2: it progressive dance music. How's that for euphemism. I didn't care.

948
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 2: I was just like, I want to play music. I

949
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 2: need a paycheck. I got to pay for gas oil embargo.

950
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 2: You remember those times it was tough to drive her

951
00:58:55,120 --> 00:59:00,200
Speaker 2: around New York to gigs. And the other thing was

952
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 2: one of my schoolmates introduced me to Lenny Tristano. I

953
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 2: don't know if you know who Lenny Tristano was, but

954
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 2: he was the father of cool jazz. He was the

955
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:15,840
Speaker 2: inventor of free form music, really first guy to ever

956
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 2: record it for Capital, even though they shelled the record

957
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 2: for nine years until after the Birth of Cool came out.

958
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:25,080
Speaker 2: I didn't know who this guy was at all. And

959
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:29,640
Speaker 2: one of my fellow students at Five Towns was more

960
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 2: of a jazz head than I was. And he said

961
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:34,920
Speaker 2: when I was told him, I'm looking for like the

962
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:39,080
Speaker 2: guy I need, like you know, I need the wizard.

963
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:41,280
Speaker 2: There's got to be somebody out there who could teach

964
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 2: me the true nature of music. And he said, you

965
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:49,760
Speaker 2: have to go see Lenny Tristano. And I said, well,

966
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 2: who is this guy? Where is this guy? And he's like,

967
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 2: he's in Queens, He's like twenty minutes from where I live. So,

968
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:58,640
Speaker 2: I mean, I could go on about this, but I mean,

969
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 2: if you're not interesting, going, yeah, yeah, you going so Lenny.

970
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 2: I mean, at that time, Lenny was kind of retired.

971
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:09,560
Speaker 2: He was teaching out of his Victorian house there in Queens.

972
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 2: He was blind since a very young age, and he

973
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:20,320
Speaker 2: was eccentric by anyone's standards. You know. He dressed only

974
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 2: in full length leotards and would walk around the room

975
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:26,600
Speaker 2: and he kind of talk like this all the time,

976
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 2: like hey, Joey, what the fuck are you playing? You know,

977
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:31,960
Speaker 2: that kind of thing right right to your face, you know.

978
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 2: And but he was the greatest teacher. He changed my

979
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 2: life because he kind of went to like the heart

980
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 2: of what it is to be a musician, Like if

981
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:49,320
Speaker 2: you think you're a musician and you haven't done these things,

982
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 2: then you're completely lying to yourself. And so, you know,

983
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:56,480
Speaker 2: after I basically had been a musician all my life

984
01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 2: that I could remember, but I realized that I hadn't

985
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:04,440
Speaker 2: really addressed me you know, what are my skills? What

986
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 2: am I avoiding learning and simple things? You know, even

987
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:13,280
Speaker 2: though I'd been teaching guitar to kids and some grown

988
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:16,200
Speaker 2: ups for a good three years by then, there were

989
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:20,880
Speaker 2: still these big empty places in my knowledge of music

990
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:25,400
Speaker 2: that really bothered me. And I think the dissatisfaction with

991
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 2: the professional music world was putting me off to working

992
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:35,880
Speaker 2: harder on my own musicianship. But so in a practical sense,

993
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:39,880
Speaker 2: he give you things like learn this scale everywhere, you know,

994
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 2: and he's a blind piano player, so he doesn't give

995
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 2: you doesn't tell you where to put your fingers. He

996
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 2: just say, if you don't know how to do it,

997
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:47,920
Speaker 2: go out there and find out how to do it,

998
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:49,920
Speaker 2: and just come back next week play it for me.

999
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:54,400
Speaker 2: You know, every note, every fingering in every key, no

1000
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 2: matter what it was, you know, huge lessons. These things

1001
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 2: were daunting for me at the time, you know, And

1002
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 2: then there'd be a harmonic section of the lesson where

1003
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 2: you'd be playing these chords. Then you had to memorize

1004
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 2: and scat sing along with a melody and solo. And

1005
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:17,440
Speaker 2: he didn't care if it was Coltrane or Tony Iomi

1006
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 2: he'd made. No, he wasn't biased against any form of music.

1007
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 2: He just wanted to hear you nail every note. His

1008
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 2: whole thing was the music's got to come from inside

1009
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:30,200
Speaker 2: of you. He could care less about sight reading. He

1010
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:32,600
Speaker 2: just got to be in here before it can come out.

1011
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:35,920
Speaker 2: His other thing was, you know, if you made a

1012
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 2: mistake during those parts of the lesson, the lesson was over,

1013
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:42,680
Speaker 2: he'd walk over to his Grail accounting book and he'd

1014
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:44,160
Speaker 2: just sit there and you'd have to give him twenty

1015
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 2: bucks and split. But if you did good, the lesson

1016
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:50,960
Speaker 2: could go on for two hours, and he'd leave everybody

1017
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 2: else in the waiting room. You know, But I'll tell

1018
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:58,479
Speaker 2: you the one, the funniest, greatest story ever from him

1019
01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:02,680
Speaker 2: was he said, after I had been doing this improv

1020
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 2: for a really long time, He's walking around the house.

1021
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 2: I'm left in the room. I'm still playing. I don't

1022
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:10,680
Speaker 2: know what to do. I keep playing. He finally comes

1023
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 2: back in and he goes, oh, that's pretty good. What

1024
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 2: do you think about that? And I use the word

1025
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:18,640
Speaker 2: could or should in my description of my playing, and

1026
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:20,680
Speaker 2: he really went off on me, and he said, you know,

1027
01:03:20,760 --> 01:03:24,919
Speaker 2: you kids from the suburbs have the subjunctive disease. You're

1028
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:27,080
Speaker 2: always worrying about what you should have played, what you

1029
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:29,080
Speaker 2: could have played, what you would have played, and you

1030
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 2: never play what you want to play, only play what

1031
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:36,080
Speaker 2: you want to play. And it was like, you know,

1032
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:40,400
Speaker 2: a zen lesson. You realize I'll be working on this forever.

1033
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:45,080
Speaker 2: But it was a great lesson because I understood what

1034
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 2: he meant. He would say like, if you don't if

1035
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:52,760
Speaker 2: you don't know what the next note is, don't play it.

1036
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 2: If you don't want to play the next note, then

1037
01:03:56,600 --> 01:04:00,800
Speaker 2: don't play it. So it was so foreign to me

1038
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:04,280
Speaker 2: as a rock and roll kid. Everything he was saying,

1039
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 2: don't put vibrato on a note until you've played the

1040
01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 2: note perfectly, and then you've decided vibrato is going to

1041
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 2: make it better, because that's how you feel in the moment.

1042
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 2: He was like a supreme improviser, like improvising was a

1043
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:28,560
Speaker 2: way of life and it required like a super discipline

1044
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 2: that was like, I don't know, the only thing I

1045
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 2: could relate to it was like someone devoting their life

1046
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:38,560
Speaker 2: to being a yogi or a zen master or something

1047
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 2: like that. You know, it's just like a total way

1048
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:47,240
Speaker 2: of life. But it really it forced me to work

1049
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 2: harder and to admit to myself when I didn't know

1050
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 2: something that that's what I should work on, like right away.

1051
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:56,720
Speaker 2: Like if you don't know that scale, sit down right now,

1052
01:04:57,120 --> 01:05:03,240
Speaker 2: memorize it everywhere. Don't kid yourself. You know that's that

1053
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 2: was tough. That was tough, and he was fascinating, just

1054
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:08,240
Speaker 2: a fascinating human being.

1055
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 1: Well, since you were essentially self taught, did you learn

1056
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:22,480
Speaker 1: any mistakes? You know, when you go through lessons, people say, well,

1057
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:24,400
Speaker 1: put your fingers here and do this. Whatever.

1058
01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:31,520
Speaker 2: Did you get into any bad habits? I'm sure I did.

1059
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:36,200
Speaker 2: The thing with guitar playing is that you can get

1060
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:39,880
Speaker 2: together let's say, all the top ten greatest guitar players

1061
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:43,920
Speaker 2: that you see on all the lists, and then you

1062
01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:47,480
Speaker 2: see pictures of them playing. You'll notice like, let's see

1063
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:52,640
Speaker 2: if I have a guitar pick here, you know, like

1064
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:54,880
Speaker 2: somebody will will hold a pick in it.

1065
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:57,760
Speaker 1: Oh wait, wait, wait, wait, this is audio only so described.

1066
01:05:57,840 --> 01:05:59,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm going to describe it to you. But

1067
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:02,480
Speaker 2: that typical thing is you see a guitar player. Their

1068
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:05,440
Speaker 2: arm is coming down over the guitar, they're holding it

1069
01:06:05,560 --> 01:06:11,240
Speaker 2: pick and the angle is elbow straight down, the wrist

1070
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:14,120
Speaker 2: is straight and they're picking. Most guitar players play like that.

1071
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:16,840
Speaker 2: But then you'll see other guitar players like Jimmy Hendrix

1072
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:21,800
Speaker 2: where or Neil Sean where it bends and the wrist

1073
01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:27,000
Speaker 2: is coming up from underneath the strings and they're picking

1074
01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:31,160
Speaker 2: in what seems like a really awkward position. You'll see

1075
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:33,840
Speaker 2: some guitar players where their wrist of their picking hand

1076
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 2: is anchored and never moves at the base of the guitar,

1077
01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:41,640
Speaker 2: which we call the bridge. And then other guitar players

1078
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:46,760
Speaker 2: their hand and their wrist never touches the guitar. It floats,

1079
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:51,520
Speaker 2: and it's the elbow that provides all the movement, or

1080
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:54,920
Speaker 2: their elbow stays completely still and only their wrist moves,

1081
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:58,320
Speaker 2: or even that the thumb and the first finger that

1082
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 2: are holding the pick, those are the only things that move.

1083
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:07,160
Speaker 2: It's it's insane how personal it is, and the one

1084
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:11,560
Speaker 2: of the difficulties of getting through the period of beginner,

1085
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:18,720
Speaker 2: intermediate and advanced player is deciding which position fits my

1086
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:21,920
Speaker 2: anatomy because the guitar is awkward as soon as you

1087
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:25,280
Speaker 2: put it on. If you're a beginner, you go like, wow,

1088
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:28,280
Speaker 2: how do I hold this thing? My fingers hurt? How

1089
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:31,000
Speaker 2: can I possibly stretch? How can I play this? And

1090
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:33,080
Speaker 2: you know, my right hand and my left hand at

1091
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:36,680
Speaker 2: the same time. When I when I was teaching a lot,

1092
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:41,040
Speaker 2: I very often, almost once a day, would I'm right handed.

1093
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:43,440
Speaker 2: I'd pick up the guitar and I'd put it the

1094
01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:45,960
Speaker 2: wrong way around, and I'd remind myself, this is how

1095
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:48,920
Speaker 2: it feels to the beginner student when they come in

1096
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:51,040
Speaker 2: and I try to get them to play a decord

1097
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:53,880
Speaker 2: or something. This is how awkward it feels. You know,

1098
01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 2: I can't play left handed at all. And it's a

1099
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:02,560
Speaker 2: good reminder that that journey out of being a beginner

1100
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:07,960
Speaker 2: is one of understanding what your body can do and

1101
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:11,000
Speaker 2: what it feels comfortable doing, and how are you going

1102
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:17,120
Speaker 2: to have to work around your anatomy? Again, if I

1103
01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 2: drawn analogy, you look at the Olympics, you look at sprinters.

1104
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:25,840
Speaker 2: You see some of the funniest variations of a very

1105
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:29,559
Speaker 2: specific thing. I mean sprinting is like super specific, right,

1106
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 2: but still not all sprinters hold their arms and move

1107
01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:37,639
Speaker 2: them in the same way. Why is that what you'd

1108
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:40,160
Speaker 2: think they'd all do it the same, right? Is just

1109
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:42,759
Speaker 2: that we're all so different and we have these little

1110
01:08:43,240 --> 01:08:46,759
Speaker 2: quirky gifts that make us excel in a certain way.

1111
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:49,760
Speaker 2: If in this case, we hold the pick like this

1112
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:53,080
Speaker 2: and the guitar like that, and you know, Jimmy Page

1113
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:56,720
Speaker 2: played the guitar really low and John McLaughlin plays it

1114
01:08:56,800 --> 01:09:01,120
Speaker 2: really high. I wouldn't want them to trade positions. I

1115
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:03,439
Speaker 2: just love the way that both of them play. But

1116
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:05,439
Speaker 2: isn't that weird? You know? So if you're a student

1117
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:08,400
Speaker 2: and you're trying to figure out, like how am I

1118
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:11,920
Speaker 2: supposed to hold this? You know, how do I which

1119
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:15,800
Speaker 2: which fingers? Van Halen very often would he'd hold the

1120
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:21,240
Speaker 2: pick between his thumb and his middle finger, which is

1121
01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:23,559
Speaker 2: really awkward to me, but it allowed him to use

1122
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:27,280
Speaker 2: his first finger for tapping, you know, brilliant idea.

1123
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:30,800
Speaker 1: And what about fingering with your other hand?

1124
01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:38,679
Speaker 2: That is again, everybody's hand is a unique size, and

1125
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:43,559
Speaker 2: there's you know, we could we could really get into

1126
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:48,760
Speaker 2: the minuti here about tendons and muscles and flexibility. You know,

1127
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:52,439
Speaker 2: Segovia had teeny little hands that if you met him

1128
01:09:52,479 --> 01:09:54,960
Speaker 2: on the street, you never say, oh, there's a guitar player.

1129
01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:58,519
Speaker 2: But the guy was brilliant and he got around the

1130
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:01,680
Speaker 2: guitar just fine. And and just because you're long and

1131
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:07,400
Speaker 2: lanky doesn't really give you any edge, you know, precision

1132
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:10,639
Speaker 2: is you just don't know. It's very much like dancing.

1133
01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:13,880
Speaker 2: Like if you think there's a body type for dancing,

1134
01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:19,719
Speaker 2: you're dead wrong. Just anybody can have that wonderful gift

1135
01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:22,879
Speaker 2: of being able to move, to connect their inner feelings

1136
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:25,479
Speaker 2: to every part of their body and just surprise you

1137
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:28,479
Speaker 2: with how great they are dancing. And so I think

1138
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:32,200
Speaker 2: music playing instruments is pretty much the same way. You cannot,

1139
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:35,880
Speaker 2: you know, judge the book by the cover. In this case,

1140
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:39,000
Speaker 2: I hope I'm not mixing metaphors her analogies.

1141
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:44,040
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're living in Westbury. Do people know, Oh,

1142
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:48,080
Speaker 1: that's Joe Satriani, He's the hot guitarist. Were you just

1143
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:50,559
Speaker 1: another guy playing guitar on the island.

1144
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:54,519
Speaker 2: I think a mixture of both. There were plenty of

1145
01:10:55,640 --> 01:11:00,880
Speaker 2: great guitar players at the time, but very often, you know,

1146
01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:04,320
Speaker 2: to give you a start. Sometimes it helps in your

1147
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:07,800
Speaker 2: own little microcosm to be the superstar, you know, for

1148
01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:10,720
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks. It just helps you try to.

1149
01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:14,320
Speaker 2: It gives you that extra energy to pick it up,

1150
01:11:15,080 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 2: the instrument up and practice just a little bit more.

1151
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:21,800
Speaker 2: We all need encouragement, you know. I learned that from

1152
01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:26,920
Speaker 2: years of teaching. There's no point getting on someone's case

1153
01:11:27,439 --> 01:11:29,640
Speaker 2: about what they can't do. Is you really do have

1154
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:33,040
Speaker 2: to focus on their gifts. And that's what we all

1155
01:11:33,080 --> 01:11:35,920
Speaker 2: need to carry us through life in general. You know,

1156
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:39,679
Speaker 2: just focus on the gifts, everything else will fall into place,

1157
01:11:40,120 --> 01:11:43,120
Speaker 2: you know, again, if you if you keep the you know,

1158
01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 2: when I was young, and even when I was teaching

1159
01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:52,840
Speaker 2: in a guitar store in the eighties and in Berkeley,

1160
01:11:53,040 --> 01:11:55,519
Speaker 2: and I had students that were, you know, eight year

1161
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:58,800
Speaker 2: old kids. I had race car drivers, lawyers, doctors. I

1162
01:11:58,840 --> 01:12:01,479
Speaker 2: had you know, all kinds of peace people who had

1163
01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:06,160
Speaker 2: real lives outside the guitar store. And you know, people

1164
01:12:06,160 --> 01:12:09,679
Speaker 2: would come in and the young kids, the little kids

1165
01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:13,680
Speaker 2: just thought I was some weird old guy, you know,

1166
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:16,760
Speaker 2: in his twenties teaching guitar and their parents made them

1167
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:19,720
Speaker 2: come and learn how to you know, play guitar. They

1168
01:12:19,800 --> 01:12:21,880
Speaker 2: come in and put their plastic toys on the amp.

1169
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:24,679
Speaker 2: And then they were great though, because they'd learned so fast.

1170
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:28,360
Speaker 2: And you'd have teenagers who just really wanted to be

1171
01:12:28,439 --> 01:12:31,160
Speaker 2: rock stars, you know, and you had to figure out

1172
01:12:31,200 --> 01:12:33,200
Speaker 2: like do they really want to be rock stars they

1173
01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:35,519
Speaker 2: really or do they want to play their instrument really well?

1174
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:40,280
Speaker 2: And then you had professional people who just wanted some relief.

1175
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:43,200
Speaker 2: You know. They'd come in for a lesson and they'd say,

1176
01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:45,400
Speaker 2: can you just teach me how to play this Creeden song?

1177
01:12:45,479 --> 01:12:48,479
Speaker 2: So after I have a hard day, I can come

1178
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:51,160
Speaker 2: home and just you know, have a glass of wine

1179
01:12:51,200 --> 01:12:54,200
Speaker 2: and play a song with my partner some And so

1180
01:12:54,280 --> 01:12:57,760
Speaker 2: you have to focus on, you know, how can you

1181
01:12:57,840 --> 01:13:00,439
Speaker 2: get that to how can you help them achieve that

1182
01:13:00,600 --> 01:13:03,840
Speaker 2: whatever it is they want. And so, like when I

1183
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:09,439
Speaker 2: was teaching Kirk Khmid, he had a real job. After

1184
01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:12,519
Speaker 2: the first year, he went from being an exodus into

1185
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:15,560
Speaker 2: Metallica and he had a serious job and some requirements,

1186
01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:18,800
Speaker 2: and he had to learn really fast. The great thing

1187
01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:21,840
Speaker 2: was he was dedicated. He had his own opinions about

1188
01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:24,479
Speaker 2: what he thought was great, and he was super hungry,

1189
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:27,439
Speaker 2: and you know, started taking two lessons a week. That's

1190
01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:32,479
Speaker 2: how dedicated he was. And so you And again, even

1191
01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:35,479
Speaker 2: if it's someone like Kirk, or if it's just the

1192
01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:38,240
Speaker 2: race car driver who comes in after a crazy day

1193
01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:41,479
Speaker 2: on the track and he just wants to play some music,

1194
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:44,559
Speaker 2: you know, you just focus on the positive and the

1195
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:47,160
Speaker 2: strengths that everybody has. He don't worry about the little

1196
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:49,680
Speaker 2: you know, where you put your finger and stuff like that.

1197
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:50,559
Speaker 2: Everyone's different.

1198
01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:55,719
Speaker 1: So how do you become the teacher to the stars.

1199
01:13:55,800 --> 01:13:57,559
Speaker 1: How does Kirk kamide find you?

1200
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:02,439
Speaker 2: I don't really know how that happened. I mean, it's

1201
01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:06,519
Speaker 2: really freaky that so many of those players were in

1202
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:09,599
Speaker 2: that area that wasn't my hometown. You know. I went

1203
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:13,160
Speaker 2: out to Berkeley, California, because my older sisters had moved

1204
01:14:13,160 --> 01:14:15,719
Speaker 2: out to the Bay Area, and they said, this place

1205
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:17,840
Speaker 2: is nothing like Long Island. You'll love it. You can

1206
01:14:17,880 --> 01:14:20,840
Speaker 2: do whatever you want. Nobody cares. You know. That's a

1207
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:24,599
Speaker 2: typical reaction to California. Oh yeah, from New York, you know.

1208
01:14:25,080 --> 01:14:28,360
Speaker 2: So and I did like it. And I just happened

1209
01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:32,080
Speaker 2: to move into this little bungalow across the street from

1210
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:35,080
Speaker 2: a guitar store, and I used to go in there

1211
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:38,639
Speaker 2: and play all the guitars all day long and never

1212
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:42,120
Speaker 2: buy anything. And one day, the owner, Jim Larson, he

1213
01:14:42,160 --> 01:14:44,479
Speaker 2: says to me, you know what, if you're just gonna

1214
01:14:44,479 --> 01:14:47,360
Speaker 2: sit here and play all day long and not buy anything,

1215
01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:49,439
Speaker 2: you might as well give lessons. And I said, oh, man,

1216
01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:51,800
Speaker 2: I gave lessons on Long Island. I don't want to

1217
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:56,160
Speaker 2: give lessons. But anyway, I realized that there was very

1218
01:14:56,240 --> 01:14:59,479
Speaker 2: little in the form of work for me out there

1219
01:15:00,320 --> 01:15:02,640
Speaker 2: because I didn't know anybody. I had no contacts in

1220
01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:07,160
Speaker 2: the Bay area. So I started teaching and I had

1221
01:15:07,240 --> 01:15:12,000
Speaker 2: no I mean, I have no idea why I wound

1222
01:15:12,040 --> 01:15:16,240
Speaker 2: up seeing guys like Larry Lalande and Alex Skolnik, and

1223
01:15:16,320 --> 01:15:20,080
Speaker 2: Kirk Hammett and David Bryce and Kevin Cadogan. I was

1224
01:15:20,120 --> 01:15:24,160
Speaker 2: just like the luckiest guitar teacher ever that all of

1225
01:15:24,200 --> 01:15:26,639
Speaker 2: these very different kids would come in and they were

1226
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:34,120
Speaker 2: so motivated to learn, and they were so different. Perfect

1227
01:15:34,120 --> 01:15:37,600
Speaker 2: example would be like one of one of the luthiers

1228
01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:46,040
Speaker 2: who worked for the store. She had a little kid, Charlie,

1229
01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:49,679
Speaker 2: and so one day she comes in and she's like, Joe,

1230
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:52,920
Speaker 2: Charlie's driving me crazy. You just could you just teach

1231
01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:54,800
Speaker 2: him how to play guitar. So he's you know, he

1232
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:59,280
Speaker 2: leaves me alone. So this little Charlie comes in, and

1233
01:15:59,360 --> 01:16:02,320
Speaker 2: Charlie's like not even though he's growing, he's growing up

1234
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:05,840
Speaker 2: right alongside all these what are going to become thrash

1235
01:16:05,880 --> 01:16:08,519
Speaker 2: metal players and metal players, he has no interest in

1236
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:10,800
Speaker 2: any of it. And so teaching him was a lot

1237
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:13,200
Speaker 2: of fun because he was just into anything that was

1238
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:17,880
Speaker 2: against what was trending. And of course he becomes the

1239
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:22,479
Speaker 2: Charlie Hunter that's just preeminent funk, jazz, whatever you want

1240
01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:26,400
Speaker 2: to call. He just created his own genre and he

1241
01:16:26,439 --> 01:16:31,760
Speaker 2: grew up to be just an amazing man and just fantastic,

1242
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:34,599
Speaker 2: just you know. But at the same time, like I said,

1243
01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:39,120
Speaker 2: they would, there would be Kirk and who had a

1244
01:16:39,160 --> 01:16:43,679
Speaker 2: gig that was extremely important and he was making history

1245
01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:48,240
Speaker 2: like with every album, and then like right after him,

1246
01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:50,840
Speaker 2: it would be like David Brison from County Crow's who

1247
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:53,040
Speaker 2: was like, you know, he said, look, I don't care

1248
01:16:53,080 --> 01:16:56,920
Speaker 2: about soloing, I don't care about shredding. He said, how

1249
01:16:57,880 --> 01:16:59,920
Speaker 2: how do you write songs? How do you change keys?

1250
01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:04,200
Speaker 2: What chords go with this? How many different ways can

1251
01:17:04,240 --> 01:17:07,320
Speaker 2: I give this feeling? And then shift into that feeling.

1252
01:17:07,320 --> 01:17:10,920
Speaker 2: It was really fascinating for me as a teacher to

1253
01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:16,280
Speaker 2: have this unique variety walking through the door every day.

1254
01:17:16,320 --> 01:17:17,840
Speaker 2: And I did that for about ten years.

1255
01:17:19,640 --> 01:17:23,400
Speaker 1: And what was the dream other than teaching guitar, which

1256
01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:25,920
Speaker 1: wasn't the dream? What did you want to actually do

1257
01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:27,960
Speaker 1: other than be free in the Bay Area.

1258
01:17:29,120 --> 01:17:32,240
Speaker 2: Oh, I think it never really changed. I always thought

1259
01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:34,960
Speaker 2: I'd be like a Jimmy Page figure, I'd be in

1260
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:39,080
Speaker 2: a fourth piece band with a singer. I still really

1261
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:43,920
Speaker 2: love rock music in general, just the attention to songwriting

1262
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:49,200
Speaker 2: is I really love that, and that the bands can

1263
01:17:49,240 --> 01:17:53,400
Speaker 2: be unique, that each band member can be celebrated for

1264
01:17:53,479 --> 01:17:56,439
Speaker 2: their uniqueness in the band. You know, it's just to me,

1265
01:17:57,160 --> 01:18:00,760
Speaker 2: that's what's different than pop music or other forms of

1266
01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:03,519
Speaker 2: music that are really strict. You know, like blues is

1267
01:18:03,560 --> 01:18:08,320
Speaker 2: really strict. You got to basically quote every cool blues

1268
01:18:08,320 --> 01:18:10,559
Speaker 2: player in the world to be accepted by the audience.

1269
01:18:11,439 --> 01:18:16,639
Speaker 2: They don't celebrate originality, you know, it's weird. But rock music,

1270
01:18:16,720 --> 01:18:21,600
Speaker 2: I thought, well, it's so inclusive. They celebrate everyone's originality

1271
01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:23,639
Speaker 2: and they just want you to keep writing great songs.

1272
01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:26,880
Speaker 2: And I just thought this is really great, you know, so,

1273
01:18:27,840 --> 01:18:33,160
Speaker 2: but along the way I started. I was in this

1274
01:18:33,240 --> 01:18:35,759
Speaker 2: band called the Squares for about four and a half years.

1275
01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:39,320
Speaker 1: A little bit slower. How many bands you in before

1276
01:18:39,400 --> 01:18:42,080
Speaker 1: the Squares? And how did you join the Squares?

1277
01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:46,400
Speaker 2: So I wasn't. I did not find in the whatever

1278
01:18:47,120 --> 01:18:51,679
Speaker 2: year and a half that I was there floundering around,

1279
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:57,519
Speaker 2: you know, just enjoying the northern California lifestyle. I started

1280
01:18:57,560 --> 01:19:00,599
Speaker 2: a band because my ex brother in law moved out

1281
01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:03,719
Speaker 2: there as well, and he was nine years ten years

1282
01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:06,920
Speaker 2: older than me, very smart guy, worked for Cutter Laboratories.

1283
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:08,880
Speaker 2: But he had always been a guitar player and a

1284
01:19:08,920 --> 01:19:13,720
Speaker 2: singer songwriter back in his days at Villanova and Harvard.

1285
01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:13,920
Speaker 1: And.

1286
01:19:16,479 --> 01:19:20,080
Speaker 2: So we were writing songs together when we were when

1287
01:19:20,120 --> 01:19:22,799
Speaker 2: I was really young, when he was still dating my sister,

1288
01:19:23,479 --> 01:19:25,960
Speaker 2: and when he moved out, we got the idea to

1289
01:19:26,080 --> 01:19:28,759
Speaker 2: start a band, a rock band, and he would manage

1290
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:31,439
Speaker 2: and write lyrics. I would write the music. We just

1291
01:19:31,439 --> 01:19:34,400
Speaker 2: needed to find some people to play us. I found

1292
01:19:34,840 --> 01:19:39,120
Speaker 2: Jeff Campitelli on drums, Andy Milton on bass, guitar and

1293
01:19:39,200 --> 01:19:42,559
Speaker 2: lead vocals, and we were kind of like a not

1294
01:19:42,760 --> 01:19:46,960
Speaker 2: good version of Green Day and Blink one two. The

1295
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:51,000
Speaker 2: only way I can describe it. We were very dedicated,

1296
01:19:51,040 --> 01:19:53,360
Speaker 2: but I have to admit we were not as good

1297
01:19:53,640 --> 01:19:57,479
Speaker 2: as those guys, so no wonder we didn't get anywhere.

1298
01:19:57,479 --> 01:19:59,920
Speaker 2: But we practiced like crazy and we were as pro

1299
01:20:00,240 --> 01:20:03,680
Speaker 2: as you can get. And during that time I was

1300
01:20:03,880 --> 01:20:06,280
Speaker 2: always teaching, so my day job was teaching at the

1301
01:20:06,320 --> 01:20:08,960
Speaker 2: guitar store, and then we would either rehearse or gig

1302
01:20:08,960 --> 01:20:13,599
Speaker 2: at night. And somewhere along the line, I really wanted

1303
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:19,920
Speaker 2: to produce our own record, but our manager and our

1304
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:22,960
Speaker 2: agent at the time, Neil and Kevin, they just they

1305
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:25,200
Speaker 2: were saying, no, we should just keep trying to go

1306
01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:30,080
Speaker 2: down to LA and ironically try to get John Carter

1307
01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:33,840
Speaker 2: at Capital to signs to a label. I see, I didn't.

1308
01:20:33,880 --> 01:20:37,320
Speaker 2: I mean I could jump ahead and say the first

1309
01:20:37,320 --> 01:20:41,200
Speaker 2: time I met Carter again, we laughed about he was

1310
01:20:41,400 --> 01:20:43,879
Speaker 2: how he was my nemesis because he turned the squares

1311
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:51,280
Speaker 2: down so many times. That was was, Oh, anyway, I

1312
01:20:51,320 --> 01:20:58,639
Speaker 2: love John, But anyway, so, uh, I on a break,

1313
01:20:59,160 --> 01:21:01,320
Speaker 2: this is really I mean, you'll be editing all this out.

1314
01:21:01,360 --> 01:21:05,280
Speaker 2: But so we rehearsed down by Seventh Street in the

1315
01:21:05,320 --> 01:21:08,479
Speaker 2: Berkeley Flats area, in a warehouse that was part of

1316
01:21:08,479 --> 01:21:11,719
Speaker 2: the NOLO Press publishing company, and they had a dumpster

1317
01:21:11,840 --> 01:21:15,320
Speaker 2: right outside where we rehears, so when we go out

1318
01:21:15,320 --> 01:21:18,040
Speaker 2: there to have a cigarette and a drink between songs,

1319
01:21:19,520 --> 01:21:23,200
Speaker 2: there'd be this dumpster overflowing with their books. So they're

1320
01:21:23,280 --> 01:21:25,519
Speaker 2: how to books, you know, like how to get a divorce,

1321
01:21:25,800 --> 01:21:27,960
Speaker 2: how to start a bakery, how to do this, and

1322
01:21:28,040 --> 01:21:30,920
Speaker 2: inside the books were tear out sheets. So one day

1323
01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:34,160
Speaker 2: we're out there, we're going nowhere, you know, with this band,

1324
01:21:34,280 --> 01:21:37,599
Speaker 2: and I'm looking at I'm looking through the dumpster and

1325
01:21:37,640 --> 01:21:40,160
Speaker 2: I see how to start a company, how to do

1326
01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:43,240
Speaker 2: your own books. And I take this book back to

1327
01:21:43,280 --> 01:21:45,519
Speaker 2: my apartment and I go, you know what, I'm going

1328
01:21:45,600 --> 01:21:49,479
Speaker 2: to start my own publishing company, my own record company.

1329
01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:52,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to make a recording. I'm going to put

1330
01:21:52,040 --> 01:21:55,160
Speaker 2: it out when the band takes their Christmas break, and

1331
01:21:55,200 --> 01:21:56,920
Speaker 2: I'm going to bring it to the band and show

1332
01:21:57,000 --> 01:22:00,320
Speaker 2: them that it can be done. So that's what I did.

1333
01:22:01,240 --> 01:22:06,479
Speaker 2: And it was a very weird, avant garde EP that

1334
01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:09,920
Speaker 2: I recorded in late eighty four. And you know, I

1335
01:22:09,960 --> 01:22:12,960
Speaker 2: went down to the courthouse. I started Strange, beautleful Music.

1336
01:22:13,040 --> 01:22:16,400
Speaker 2: I started Rubina Records. I was the president. I was

1337
01:22:16,439 --> 01:22:21,879
Speaker 2: also the first client, and I got this record pressed.

1338
01:22:23,040 --> 01:22:26,320
Speaker 2: I brought it to the band and no one, no

1339
01:22:26,320 --> 01:22:28,919
Speaker 2: one really liked it. I did it. Jeff was intrigued

1340
01:22:28,920 --> 01:22:33,679
Speaker 2: by it, you know, and the reaction made me realize

1341
01:22:34,200 --> 01:22:35,840
Speaker 2: this is going nowhere. I got to get out of here,

1342
01:22:35,960 --> 01:22:38,320
Speaker 2: you know. I started the band, but I just said, look,

1343
01:22:38,479 --> 01:22:40,920
Speaker 2: I'm quitting this band. You guys could do whatever you want,

1344
01:22:41,600 --> 01:22:44,439
Speaker 2: but this obviously you've got to do it yourself now.

1345
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:48,400
Speaker 2: So I just thought, the next thing I'll do is

1346
01:22:48,880 --> 01:22:51,200
Speaker 2: I have to do an album with drums and bass

1347
01:22:51,200 --> 01:22:52,679
Speaker 2: and keyboards that people.

1348
01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:56,280
Speaker 1: I mean, just for one second. That was the Squares.

1349
01:22:57,680 --> 01:23:01,519
Speaker 2: The Squares that yeah, from in nineteen eighty late late

1350
01:23:01,560 --> 01:23:04,559
Speaker 2: seventy nine to very early eighty five.

1351
01:23:04,600 --> 01:23:07,520
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so you leave the Squares continue?

1352
01:23:08,240 --> 01:23:11,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I leave the Squares. I'm teaching. I'm trying

1353
01:23:11,920 --> 01:23:14,520
Speaker 2: to play with some other bands, not really going anywhere.

1354
01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:20,080
Speaker 2: I get a credit card offer in the mail with

1355
01:23:20,640 --> 01:23:25,280
Speaker 2: checks totally five thousand dollars, which I go back second

1356
01:23:25,400 --> 01:23:28,200
Speaker 2: round to all studios and engineers and I say, look,

1357
01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:30,920
Speaker 2: what if I paid you in advance, would you give

1358
01:23:30,920 --> 01:23:34,400
Speaker 2: me a break? And I got like the fifty percent break,

1359
01:23:34,680 --> 01:23:37,519
Speaker 2: you know, discount if I paid everybody ahead of time

1360
01:23:37,560 --> 01:23:41,000
Speaker 2: to do this album. I finished the album. I'm in

1361
01:23:41,080 --> 01:23:45,240
Speaker 2: debt for just under five grand. I'm really struggling to

1362
01:23:45,439 --> 01:23:47,519
Speaker 2: pay this thing off. And I get a call my

1363
01:23:47,680 --> 01:23:51,000
Speaker 2: second call from a local band do a great kin

1364
01:23:51,160 --> 01:23:54,840
Speaker 2: band who once again having guitar player problems, and they

1365
01:23:54,920 --> 01:23:57,120
Speaker 2: want me to come to the studio like that day

1366
01:23:57,320 --> 01:24:00,360
Speaker 2: because I have to finish their album Love and Rock Role,

1367
01:24:01,200 --> 01:24:04,559
Speaker 2: And there was no argument. I was like, I need

1368
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:07,840
Speaker 2: cash like today, you know. So I went down there

1369
01:24:08,680 --> 01:24:13,080
Speaker 2: to Fantasy Records. They literally recorded me just like listening

1370
01:24:13,120 --> 01:24:15,760
Speaker 2: to music for the first time. I'd like, tune up

1371
01:24:15,760 --> 01:24:18,160
Speaker 2: and they'd play something and I'd just play along and

1372
01:24:18,200 --> 01:24:20,160
Speaker 2: they'd say, we got it, Joe, all right, let's move

1373
01:24:20,200 --> 01:24:23,640
Speaker 2: on to the next song. And by the end of

1374
01:24:23,680 --> 01:24:28,000
Speaker 2: the early evening they handed me ten thousand dollars cash

1375
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:30,360
Speaker 2: and they said there's more money coming just you know,

1376
01:24:30,400 --> 01:24:32,880
Speaker 2: give us twelve months. And I was like, you got it,

1377
01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:35,920
Speaker 2: no problem. You know. I really did like the band,

1378
01:24:35,920 --> 01:24:38,200
Speaker 2: and we played with them a lot. Greg was a

1379
01:24:38,240 --> 01:24:41,559
Speaker 2: fantastic singer in front Man, and I didn't know the

1380
01:24:41,560 --> 01:24:44,479
Speaker 2: guys in the band that well, but I knew from

1381
01:24:44,520 --> 01:24:47,519
Speaker 2: opening up for those guys for years that they were

1382
01:24:47,520 --> 01:24:50,080
Speaker 2: the real deal. It was like a cool not my

1383
01:24:50,160 --> 01:24:52,479
Speaker 2: style of music, but I recognized that they were really

1384
01:24:52,479 --> 01:24:56,880
Speaker 2: good at it, and so that what followed was well.

1385
01:24:57,160 --> 01:25:00,200
Speaker 2: First of all, I paid off the credit card, and

1386
01:25:01,280 --> 01:25:06,960
Speaker 2: because about the same time, I'd sent a cassette of

1387
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:09,240
Speaker 2: it to Steve vi Iika. Steve and I were always

1388
01:25:09,240 --> 01:25:12,000
Speaker 2: trading cassettes of stuff we were working on, and he

1389
01:25:12,120 --> 01:25:16,759
Speaker 2: had just signed with Relativity Records out of Jamaica Queen's

1390
01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:21,080
Speaker 2: for his Flexible album. And the way Steve put it was,

1391
01:25:21,439 --> 01:25:24,439
Speaker 2: he goes, Joe, my record is so much weirder than yours,

1392
01:25:24,439 --> 01:25:29,000
Speaker 2: and they signed me. They gotta sign you. So I said, okay,

1393
01:25:29,040 --> 01:25:31,360
Speaker 2: you can to send them the cassette. I don't care.

1394
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:34,800
Speaker 2: I wasn't even thinking that I get anywhere with it,

1395
01:25:35,640 --> 01:25:40,720
Speaker 2: but Clifficaltrairie at Relativity Records liked it. We met and

1396
01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:43,960
Speaker 2: it took about twelve months, but eventually a P and

1397
01:25:44,040 --> 01:25:47,160
Speaker 2: D deal was struck while I was just finishing my

1398
01:25:47,280 --> 01:25:51,280
Speaker 2: year with Greg Kin, and in November of eighty six,

1399
01:25:51,360 --> 01:25:53,240
Speaker 2: they released Not Out of This Earth, which was my

1400
01:25:53,320 --> 01:25:57,439
Speaker 2: first full length LP that I had produced and played on,

1401
01:25:57,520 --> 01:26:02,760
Speaker 2: and that was probably the strangest instrumental album I'd done

1402
01:26:02,760 --> 01:26:05,439
Speaker 2: outside of the EP, which was certifiably weird.

1403
01:26:05,600 --> 01:26:18,040
Speaker 1: But okay, you're playing with Greg Kidd. You get the

1404
01:26:18,080 --> 01:26:21,280
Speaker 1: money to pay off the credit card. Everything was slowly.

1405
01:26:21,920 --> 01:26:24,720
Speaker 1: It takes you twelve months to make the deal. The

1406
01:26:24,840 --> 01:26:27,280
Speaker 1: record is released, and then what.

1407
01:26:28,520 --> 01:26:32,840
Speaker 2: I go to New York because Barry Kober and the

1408
01:26:32,880 --> 01:26:37,439
Speaker 2: president of the company, is not convinced that they that

1409
01:26:37,479 --> 01:26:40,320
Speaker 2: I have the goods, you know, to do an instrumental record,

1410
01:26:41,400 --> 01:26:44,120
Speaker 2: and they booked this sort of like a showcase at

1411
01:26:44,160 --> 01:26:47,200
Speaker 2: the China Club. I don't know any musicians in New

1412
01:26:47,280 --> 01:26:51,480
Speaker 2: York anymore, but I had just played with Danny Gottlieb

1413
01:26:51,520 --> 01:26:59,160
Speaker 2: in Sweden along with Jonas Hellborg, Swedish fusion bass player,

1414
01:26:59,800 --> 01:27:02,240
Speaker 2: and so I called him up and I said, Hey,

1415
01:27:02,560 --> 01:27:05,560
Speaker 2: would you do this one thing for me at the

1416
01:27:05,640 --> 01:27:09,559
Speaker 2: China Club. You know, there's no rehearsal, just show up.

1417
01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:13,280
Speaker 2: The songs are so easy, you know, and you know,

1418
01:27:13,280 --> 01:27:15,840
Speaker 2: because Danny's a great jazz drummer. And I said, you know,

1419
01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:17,040
Speaker 2: all you have to do is just play a little

1420
01:27:17,040 --> 01:27:20,280
Speaker 2: heavier than usual, don't worry about it. And I didn't

1421
01:27:20,280 --> 01:27:22,360
Speaker 2: know a bass player, so he said, well, you know

1422
01:27:22,439 --> 01:27:26,439
Speaker 2: Mark Egan. Let's get Mark. And I thought Mark's amazing.

1423
01:27:26,439 --> 01:27:28,479
Speaker 2: It's like, why would he be playing, you know, satch

1424
01:27:28,479 --> 01:27:31,479
Speaker 2: Boogie and stuff like that. But I needed somebody. So

1425
01:27:32,080 --> 01:27:35,760
Speaker 2: we met, we set up, we played, and when we

1426
01:27:35,800 --> 01:27:39,400
Speaker 2: got done with satch Boogie, the deal was made. Barry

1427
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:42,960
Speaker 2: heard something in what I was doing, because I when

1428
01:27:42,960 --> 01:27:44,680
Speaker 2: he asked me what I wanted to do, I said, look,

1429
01:27:44,720 --> 01:27:48,200
Speaker 2: I want to make an album that celebrates everything I

1430
01:27:48,240 --> 01:27:50,799
Speaker 2: love about guitars. And I said that means Chuck Berry,

1431
01:27:51,280 --> 01:27:54,960
Speaker 2: that means Hendrix, that means some fusion stuff, some classical stuff.

1432
01:27:55,600 --> 01:27:57,960
Speaker 2: You know. I said, that's that's who I am, you know.

1433
01:27:58,680 --> 01:28:03,320
Speaker 2: And I should point out that earlier, a couple of

1434
01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:08,200
Speaker 2: days earlier, when I went out to the company the record,

1435
01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:11,559
Speaker 2: I'm standing in the middle of their their main room,

1436
01:28:12,080 --> 01:28:14,400
Speaker 2: all the employees around, and Barry's looking at me, and

1437
01:28:14,400 --> 01:28:17,600
Speaker 2: he's very uncomfortable and he goes, you don't look like

1438
01:28:17,640 --> 01:28:21,599
Speaker 2: a rock star. And I was just thinking, like, oh,

1439
01:28:21,640 --> 01:28:25,479
Speaker 2: this is really embarrassing. I got it was like, sorry, Barry,

1440
01:28:25,479 --> 01:28:28,400
Speaker 2: but this is what I look like. But you know,

1441
01:28:29,080 --> 01:28:31,320
Speaker 2: I kind of knew it, you know, and I understood

1442
01:28:31,320 --> 01:28:33,320
Speaker 2: where he was coming from. Because he had he had

1443
01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:36,240
Speaker 2: just signed Steve I and Steve looks like a rock star,

1444
01:28:36,360 --> 01:28:38,479
Speaker 2: you know, he was a rock star. But he looked

1445
01:28:38,479 --> 01:28:42,120
Speaker 2: a part and I didn't, and and and he was

1446
01:28:42,160 --> 01:28:44,240
Speaker 2: about to sink some money into me. So I totally

1447
01:28:44,240 --> 01:28:48,599
Speaker 2: got it. So it's him being nervous. But it turned

1448
01:28:48,600 --> 01:28:52,639
Speaker 2: out all right because they did give me complete freedom

1449
01:28:52,680 --> 01:28:55,479
Speaker 2: to do what I wanted. And that album was Surfing

1450
01:28:55,479 --> 01:28:59,240
Speaker 2: with the Alien, and thank god that people like that one,

1451
01:28:59,240 --> 01:29:04,320
Speaker 2: because that one really reflected my true nature. So you

1452
01:29:04,360 --> 01:29:06,360
Speaker 2: know that thing where bands that they get famous for

1453
01:29:06,439 --> 01:29:09,800
Speaker 2: the wrong song and it destroys the band or you know,

1454
01:29:09,880 --> 01:29:15,200
Speaker 2: they it's the single that killed the band. But in

1455
01:29:15,280 --> 01:29:18,400
Speaker 2: terms of that album, Surfing was the best of all

1456
01:29:18,439 --> 01:29:21,720
Speaker 2: the albums of mine that could have got that kind

1457
01:29:21,720 --> 01:29:25,280
Speaker 2: of embrace, you know, from a world audience, because that's

1458
01:29:25,320 --> 01:29:27,040
Speaker 2: exactly who I am, you know.

1459
01:29:27,479 --> 01:29:30,400
Speaker 1: Okay, a little bit slower the album you make by

1460
01:29:30,439 --> 01:29:33,280
Speaker 1: yourself with the five thousand dollars from the credit card.

1461
01:29:33,720 --> 01:29:36,080
Speaker 1: Relativity does put that record out.

1462
01:29:36,760 --> 01:29:39,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it took a long time, but they put it

1463
01:29:39,439 --> 01:29:42,160
Speaker 2: out in November of eighty six. By then, I'd already

1464
01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:47,080
Speaker 2: started working on Surfing. I'd already recorded a couple of

1465
01:29:47,120 --> 01:29:48,559
Speaker 2: demos that went oh okay.

1466
01:29:48,600 --> 01:29:52,720
Speaker 1: But even though that record was out, Very still wasn't convinced.

1467
01:29:53,040 --> 01:29:55,040
Speaker 1: It was after that record that YE had to do

1468
01:29:55,120 --> 01:29:55,679
Speaker 1: the audition.

1469
01:29:56,520 --> 01:29:59,599
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that's crazy, isn't it.

1470
01:29:59,640 --> 01:30:03,560
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're some guy from the Island living in Berkeley.

1471
01:30:04,040 --> 01:30:07,799
Speaker 1: You're with Relativity, which is independent, although not that small

1472
01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:11,519
Speaker 1: at that particular time. Yeah, a lot of people find

1473
01:30:11,560 --> 01:30:12,559
Speaker 1: out about the music.

1474
01:30:15,840 --> 01:30:22,120
Speaker 2: Terresta radio was really important. I can't really tell you

1475
01:30:22,200 --> 01:30:26,720
Speaker 2: how it was done. I do know that some of

1476
01:30:26,760 --> 01:30:31,000
Speaker 2: the most colorful people worked radio. I guess you call

1477
01:30:31,040 --> 01:30:36,519
Speaker 2: it in the companies and in you know, the parent

1478
01:30:36,560 --> 01:30:40,519
Speaker 2: company was called Important Record Distributors, and they had a

1479
01:30:40,520 --> 01:30:43,960
Speaker 2: couple of labels. They had Combat, Relativity, and maybe something else.

1480
01:30:44,800 --> 01:30:48,200
Speaker 2: But I was on Relativity. And so between the office

1481
01:30:48,240 --> 01:30:53,799
Speaker 2: in Torrance, California and Jamaica, Queens, they had radio people

1482
01:30:53,840 --> 01:30:57,960
Speaker 2: whose knew other radio people and they knew disc jockeys.

1483
01:30:58,200 --> 01:31:04,200
Speaker 2: And I did IDs for hundreds of stations. I visited

1484
01:31:04,280 --> 01:31:07,560
Speaker 2: hundreds of stations. I played guitar at hundreds of stations,

1485
01:31:08,200 --> 01:31:13,360
Speaker 2: and stations like wherever Redbeard was in Texas at the time,

1486
01:31:13,479 --> 01:31:20,920
Speaker 2: and Chicago, the Loop and La Boston, unbelievable support. When

1487
01:31:20,920 --> 01:31:24,320
Speaker 2: that record came out, they would just spin it and

1488
01:31:24,520 --> 01:31:27,559
Speaker 2: I was, you know, klex. They would they would play

1489
01:31:27,600 --> 01:31:32,280
Speaker 2: the whole record on Sunday twice, you know, top to bottom.

1490
01:31:32,640 --> 01:31:35,559
Speaker 2: The record that I thought was so completely out of time,

1491
01:31:36,400 --> 01:31:40,439
Speaker 2: the one that both myself and my co producer John

1492
01:31:40,479 --> 01:31:44,200
Speaker 2: Kuniberty thought would definitely seal our fate as never being

1493
01:31:44,280 --> 01:31:48,280
Speaker 2: hired again, turned out to be the one that got

1494
01:31:48,320 --> 01:31:49,599
Speaker 2: embraced by the fans.

1495
01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:50,240
Speaker 1: It was.

1496
01:31:50,360 --> 01:31:52,760
Speaker 2: The trick was to get the radio station to play it,

1497
01:31:53,080 --> 01:31:55,639
Speaker 2: and in pre internet days, that that was it. If

1498
01:31:55,680 --> 01:31:58,360
Speaker 2: you couldn't get it on the radio, you were dead

1499
01:31:58,400 --> 01:31:58,880
Speaker 2: in the water.

1500
01:31:59,560 --> 01:32:03,080
Speaker 1: Okay, you're the guitar teacher to the stars. You have

1501
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:06,280
Speaker 1: a band that can't get signed by a major label.

1502
01:32:08,120 --> 01:32:10,679
Speaker 1: You know right now, I wouldn't quite call it sonny,

1503
01:32:10,680 --> 01:32:16,240
Speaker 1: but an upbeat disposition. You go from being completely unknown

1504
01:32:17,400 --> 01:32:22,360
Speaker 1: to having traction. What was the experience emotionally.

1505
01:32:22,880 --> 01:32:29,280
Speaker 2: That was It's really hard to describe the depth of

1506
01:32:29,439 --> 01:32:38,320
Speaker 2: despair in like early December eighty seven, like the or

1507
01:32:38,760 --> 01:32:44,519
Speaker 2: more like more like October of eighty seven. I just

1508
01:32:44,600 --> 01:32:47,280
Speaker 2: really didn't think there was I didn't I was getting

1509
01:32:47,320 --> 01:32:50,200
Speaker 2: feedback from the world, only from the people I knew.

1510
01:32:50,680 --> 01:32:53,240
Speaker 2: And I thought, it's okay, the recor will come out

1511
01:32:53,280 --> 01:32:56,200
Speaker 2: and I'll just teach and I'll just keep going and

1512
01:32:56,400 --> 01:33:00,200
Speaker 2: I won't think about what I can't imagine or it's

1513
01:33:00,240 --> 01:33:02,400
Speaker 2: not happened yet, and I'm not going to fear and

1514
01:33:02,479 --> 01:33:07,240
Speaker 2: imagine future, you know. And then Barry called me one

1515
01:33:07,320 --> 01:33:11,639
Speaker 2: day and he said, you know, you're one eighty seven

1516
01:33:11,680 --> 01:33:15,960
Speaker 2: on Billboard. And I was shocked that even was on

1517
01:33:16,000 --> 01:33:20,519
Speaker 2: the Billboard charts. And I said, wow, what does that mean,

1518
01:33:20,680 --> 01:33:22,120
Speaker 2: you know? And he said, well, it means you got

1519
01:33:22,120 --> 01:33:25,840
Speaker 2: to put a band together. And I said, Barry, I've

1520
01:33:25,880 --> 01:33:28,719
Speaker 2: never played instrumental rock in front of an audience before.

1521
01:33:29,080 --> 01:33:31,360
Speaker 2: I said, there is no band. It's like, what do

1522
01:33:31,439 --> 01:33:34,519
Speaker 2: I do? You jump around? You're serious, like, you know,

1523
01:33:34,760 --> 01:33:36,400
Speaker 2: do you need lights, smoke bombs?

1524
01:33:36,400 --> 01:33:36,880
Speaker 1: What do you do?

1525
01:33:38,720 --> 01:33:40,880
Speaker 2: And he said no, just put a band together and

1526
01:33:42,080 --> 01:33:45,080
Speaker 2: you got to go out and play. And so after

1527
01:33:45,120 --> 01:33:48,400
Speaker 2: that phone call, I was like really wondering, like really,

1528
01:33:48,640 --> 01:33:51,960
Speaker 2: like as a career, I mean, I always thought you

1529
01:33:52,040 --> 01:33:54,800
Speaker 2: put out an album and it might be embraced by

1530
01:33:54,840 --> 01:33:59,000
Speaker 2: a small group of people, but as a viable touring act,

1531
01:33:59,040 --> 01:34:01,679
Speaker 2: I thought, well, no one that anymore. Jeff Beck maybe,

1532
01:34:01,920 --> 01:34:06,320
Speaker 2: you know, but even he would intersperse working with big

1533
01:34:06,439 --> 01:34:09,719
Speaker 2: vocal stars, you know, you know, because the genre didn't

1534
01:34:09,720 --> 01:34:15,160
Speaker 2: exist anymore really outside of Jeff and so but I thought, okay,

1535
01:34:15,560 --> 01:34:18,479
Speaker 2: I have to I'm going to have to figure this out,

1536
01:34:18,520 --> 01:34:24,360
Speaker 2: you know. And so I called ste and Jonathan Jonathan

1537
01:34:24,400 --> 01:34:27,599
Speaker 2: Moover drummer and Stuart Ham bass player who we had

1538
01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:31,519
Speaker 2: played just briefly in the summer at a NAM show,

1539
01:34:32,400 --> 01:34:37,000
Speaker 2: and I said, well, you know, they record company wants

1540
01:34:37,000 --> 01:34:39,840
Speaker 2: a tour, so we put a tour together. I gave

1541
01:34:39,880 --> 01:34:43,760
Speaker 2: my last guitar lesson to Kirk Hammett in early January

1542
01:34:43,880 --> 01:34:49,479
Speaker 2: of eighty eight, and we're all excited, Wow, going on tour.

1543
01:34:49,520 --> 01:34:52,400
Speaker 2: And I go out on this tour. I'm playing two

1544
01:34:52,400 --> 01:34:56,080
Speaker 2: shows a night, six seven nights a week. We're out

1545
01:34:56,080 --> 01:34:59,439
Speaker 2: there for about three weeks. Maybe it was awful. It

1546
01:34:59,560 --> 01:35:03,680
Speaker 2: was just so hard. You know. There's as you know,

1547
01:35:03,960 --> 01:35:05,720
Speaker 2: just because you have a record doesn't mean you can

1548
01:35:05,760 --> 01:35:08,840
Speaker 2: sell a ticket. Some people have tickets and they don't

1549
01:35:08,880 --> 01:35:10,920
Speaker 2: they can sell tickets and they don't have record sales

1550
01:35:11,000 --> 01:35:14,680
Speaker 2: or whatever. So it's a funky business, right. So but

1551
01:35:14,800 --> 01:35:17,080
Speaker 2: I was in that position where I was unknown, I

1552
01:35:17,160 --> 01:35:20,840
Speaker 2: was untested, Promoters didn't know how to pronounce my name,

1553
01:35:20,880 --> 01:35:24,560
Speaker 2: you know that kind of thing. And and I was

1554
01:35:25,200 --> 01:35:28,200
Speaker 2: projected to lose about maybe eight grand a week, which

1555
01:35:28,240 --> 01:35:31,000
Speaker 2: I didn't have at the time. And I remember we

1556
01:35:31,000 --> 01:35:34,160
Speaker 2: were in Boston staying at some awful motel and my

1557
01:35:34,280 --> 01:35:36,920
Speaker 2: tour manager gave me the news of how much money

1558
01:35:36,960 --> 01:35:40,840
Speaker 2: we're going to be losing. And a little while after that,

1559
01:35:41,080 --> 01:35:44,919
Speaker 2: one of my former agents, Kevin Burns, calls me from

1560
01:35:45,680 --> 01:35:48,840
Speaker 2: the Bill Graham management office and he says, you're not

1561
01:35:48,880 --> 01:35:51,439
Speaker 2: going to believe this. How would you like to audition

1562
01:35:51,520 --> 01:35:54,800
Speaker 2: for Mick Jagger? And so we both laugh for about

1563
01:35:54,800 --> 01:35:57,320
Speaker 2: a minute because we knew I was the worst guy

1564
01:35:58,120 --> 01:36:00,320
Speaker 2: to audition for Mick Jagger, like, you know, I didn't

1565
01:36:00,320 --> 01:36:02,840
Speaker 2: look right and I haven't been playing the Stones songs

1566
01:36:02,840 --> 01:36:06,640
Speaker 2: for ages. But we both said, you're going, like you

1567
01:36:06,760 --> 01:36:09,280
Speaker 2: have to go and then report to the rest of

1568
01:36:09,320 --> 01:36:12,640
Speaker 2: us how funny it was. So I go down, I

1569
01:36:12,720 --> 01:36:17,080
Speaker 2: do the audition, I get the gig. It's like really

1570
01:36:17,280 --> 01:36:21,000
Speaker 2: fun and Jagger is like the funnest guy ever. Plus

1571
01:36:21,000 --> 01:36:25,720
Speaker 2: he sings amazing. The band is amazing, and suddenly my

1572
01:36:25,880 --> 01:36:29,439
Speaker 2: problem with the tour vanishes because I've got to stay

1573
01:36:29,439 --> 01:36:31,920
Speaker 2: in New York City whehearse with Jagger and then go

1574
01:36:31,960 --> 01:36:37,559
Speaker 2: off to Japan. So this is this is like all

1575
01:36:37,600 --> 01:36:41,200
Speaker 2: part of this explanation because during that those few weeks

1576
01:36:41,240 --> 01:36:45,920
Speaker 2: and then getting in Jagger's band, getting in Rolling Stone magazine,

1577
01:36:46,520 --> 01:36:50,280
Speaker 2: seeing the chart number just go up and up and

1578
01:36:50,400 --> 01:36:53,080
Speaker 2: up and it lands at twenty nine, stays there for

1579
01:36:53,120 --> 01:36:57,519
Speaker 2: like six weeks. It was life changing because wherever I went,

1580
01:36:58,360 --> 01:37:00,439
Speaker 2: people knew how to pronounce my last name all of

1581
01:37:00,520 --> 01:37:06,400
Speaker 2: a sudden, and Mick was great wherever anytime I was

1582
01:37:06,439 --> 01:37:08,679
Speaker 2: with Mick, Mick would make sure that I could take

1583
01:37:08,720 --> 01:37:11,000
Speaker 2: advantage of any of this because he knew it was,

1584
01:37:11,479 --> 01:37:13,240
Speaker 2: you know, one of those things that only happens once

1585
01:37:13,280 --> 01:37:14,920
Speaker 2: in a while and you just got to do all

1586
01:37:14,960 --> 01:37:17,960
Speaker 2: of it. So he was always saying, if you need anything,

1587
01:37:18,000 --> 01:37:20,599
Speaker 2: you need a room, you need transportation, you need time

1588
01:37:20,680 --> 01:37:23,400
Speaker 2: to do an interview, let me know, I'll take care

1589
01:37:23,400 --> 01:37:26,160
Speaker 2: of it. And it was fabulous the help that he

1590
01:37:26,200 --> 01:37:31,800
Speaker 2: gave me. But it was a whirlwind. What other words

1591
01:37:31,880 --> 01:37:35,760
Speaker 2: can you use to describe the change of fortune in

1592
01:37:35,840 --> 01:37:39,720
Speaker 2: such a short amount of time. It's just great and

1593
01:37:39,800 --> 01:37:42,679
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, it's March. I'm at the Tokyo

1594
01:37:42,800 --> 01:37:45,680
Speaker 2: Dome and I'm playing satch Boogie where it's just a

1595
01:37:45,720 --> 01:37:48,840
Speaker 2: couple of months ago, you know, I was at the

1596
01:37:48,920 --> 01:37:52,920
Speaker 2: China Club trying to cue the guys where the bridge is.

1597
01:37:55,920 --> 01:37:59,080
Speaker 1: Just to be clear, well, was the success of the

1598
01:37:59,160 --> 01:38:03,120
Speaker 1: album driven it all from the press in the fact

1599
01:38:03,240 --> 01:38:06,519
Speaker 1: you were working with Mick or was it just the

1600
01:38:06,640 --> 01:38:08,200
Speaker 1: record caught on with the audience.

1601
01:38:09,320 --> 01:38:13,200
Speaker 2: Oh, I think it's you know, it's everything. You can't

1602
01:38:13,240 --> 01:38:18,439
Speaker 2: really discount any little thing that might happen that might

1603
01:38:18,560 --> 01:38:21,880
Speaker 2: introduce you to the to the the group of people,

1604
01:38:22,040 --> 01:38:24,800
Speaker 2: or that right person who was just waiting to hear it.

1605
01:38:26,479 --> 01:38:29,400
Speaker 2: There were plenty of times where people would say to me,

1606
01:38:30,360 --> 01:38:32,519
Speaker 2: you know, you're playing with Mick Jagger, you know, like

1607
01:38:32,560 --> 01:38:35,240
Speaker 2: they didn't get the connection because they knew me as

1608
01:38:35,760 --> 01:38:39,360
Speaker 2: surfing with the Alien guy. And just just like you know,

1609
01:38:39,439 --> 01:38:45,439
Speaker 2: when a fan becomes a fan at your fifth album

1610
01:38:45,520 --> 01:38:48,839
Speaker 2: and has no idea that you had four other albums,

1611
01:38:48,840 --> 01:38:50,200
Speaker 2: and they go back and they listen to it and

1612
01:38:50,240 --> 01:38:52,360
Speaker 2: they're like, I don't know that guy. I only know

1613
01:38:52,479 --> 01:38:56,880
Speaker 2: this guy album number five, you know. So, But there

1614
01:38:56,880 --> 01:39:01,120
Speaker 2: were other people who obviously most of them Let's say

1615
01:39:01,320 --> 01:39:03,160
Speaker 2: you playing at the Tokyo Dome. They don't know who

1616
01:39:03,200 --> 01:39:07,080
Speaker 2: you are, and Mick would let me go out and

1617
01:39:07,120 --> 01:39:10,280
Speaker 2: play two songs. I'd play Midnight all by myself. That

1618
01:39:10,400 --> 01:39:14,080
Speaker 2: was so frightening on such a huge stage in front

1619
01:39:14,120 --> 01:39:18,479
Speaker 2: of ninety thousand people. A little delicate, two hand tapping

1620
01:39:18,560 --> 01:39:26,040
Speaker 2: classical piece. What a crazy idea. But you know, everything

1621
01:39:26,080 --> 01:39:28,439
Speaker 2: is everything, you know. Just that one article in Rolling

1622
01:39:28,439 --> 01:39:32,200
Speaker 2: Stone doesn't mean anything to people who don't read Rolling Stone.

1623
01:39:32,479 --> 01:39:35,400
Speaker 2: But if you read Rolling Stone, then you go, well,

1624
01:39:35,439 --> 01:39:38,040
Speaker 2: this must be really happening, because I read this magazine

1625
01:39:38,080 --> 01:39:41,400
Speaker 2: and I trust it. You know. The most important element

1626
01:39:41,400 --> 01:39:44,400
Speaker 2: of all, though, is if people don't like what they

1627
01:39:44,479 --> 01:39:48,080
Speaker 2: hear you know you, As Glenn Johns once told me,

1628
01:39:48,120 --> 01:39:50,400
Speaker 2: he said, it's not your job to decide what people

1629
01:39:50,439 --> 01:39:52,960
Speaker 2: are going to like. It's your job to play your guitar.

1630
01:39:54,040 --> 01:39:57,400
Speaker 2: So if you people will decide what they like you

1631
01:39:57,479 --> 01:40:00,840
Speaker 2: just you can't make them like you. And there isn't

1632
01:40:00,960 --> 01:40:04,080
Speaker 2: any press or any bit of good luck that is

1633
01:40:04,120 --> 01:40:08,360
Speaker 2: going to make that happen. They really have to like

1634
01:40:08,479 --> 01:40:11,200
Speaker 2: listening to your music, to put it on day after day,

1635
01:40:11,240 --> 01:40:14,439
Speaker 2: week after week, year after year, and to take a

1636
01:40:14,520 --> 01:40:17,080
Speaker 2: chance on your follow up album and the next one

1637
01:40:17,120 --> 01:40:17,640
Speaker 2: and the next one.

1638
01:40:17,720 --> 01:40:21,200
Speaker 1: Well, that begs the question of as the guitarist, to

1639
01:40:21,280 --> 01:40:24,160
Speaker 1: what degree do you feel pressure to deliver what you

1640
01:40:24,200 --> 01:40:25,160
Speaker 1: think people will like.

1641
01:40:27,360 --> 01:40:34,280
Speaker 2: I don't know what people like, and I mean, you

1642
01:40:34,400 --> 01:40:36,599
Speaker 2: just can't tell what people are going to like, and

1643
01:40:36,640 --> 01:40:39,320
Speaker 2: so you got to let that go, you really do.

1644
01:40:40,600 --> 01:40:47,400
Speaker 2: I can say that sincerity is important, and when somebody

1645
01:40:48,120 --> 01:40:54,240
Speaker 2: is up on stage doing, you know, doing what they

1646
01:40:54,240 --> 01:40:57,200
Speaker 2: believe in, you have the best shot of reaching somebody.

1647
01:40:57,840 --> 01:40:59,920
Speaker 2: But if you're being false, I don't think you have

1648
01:41:01,240 --> 01:41:07,040
Speaker 2: as much of a chance to find your audience. And

1649
01:41:07,080 --> 01:41:11,880
Speaker 2: that's as important to embrace as the fact is. You

1650
01:41:11,920 --> 01:41:15,080
Speaker 2: can't make people like you. You just can't. They're just

1651
01:41:15,120 --> 01:41:17,720
Speaker 2: gonna either like it or they won't. I mean, just

1652
01:41:17,800 --> 01:41:22,200
Speaker 2: look at like fans who love one particular band more

1653
01:41:22,240 --> 01:41:25,400
Speaker 2: than any other band but still will say, oh, album

1654
01:41:25,479 --> 01:41:29,880
Speaker 2: number three is just the worst to the artist's face,

1655
01:41:29,960 --> 01:41:34,120
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So people it's their prerogative

1656
01:41:34,200 --> 01:41:36,280
Speaker 2: to like or not like, so you might as well

1657
01:41:36,320 --> 01:41:37,160
Speaker 2: just you.

1658
01:41:37,120 --> 01:41:40,760
Speaker 1: Know, Okay, so you cut a record, it's ready to

1659
01:41:40,800 --> 01:41:45,479
Speaker 1: come out. What do you feel inside? Are you super anxious?

1660
01:41:46,400 --> 01:41:51,360
Speaker 2: Yeah? Because you didn't finish it. The whole idea of

1661
01:41:51,400 --> 01:41:55,360
Speaker 2: finishing an album that you abandon it. You are forced

1662
01:41:55,400 --> 01:41:58,479
Speaker 2: to abandon it because you've run out of time and money.

1663
01:41:59,000 --> 01:41:59,839
Speaker 2: That's the reality.

1664
01:41:59,880 --> 01:42:00,519
Speaker 1: You know that.

1665
01:42:02,560 --> 01:42:05,160
Speaker 2: Every artist wishes they could just keep working on it,

1666
01:42:05,320 --> 01:42:08,759
Speaker 2: keep working on it, and you know, thank god there's tours,

1667
01:42:08,840 --> 01:42:12,200
Speaker 2: because that's where you get to work on it. Like, yeah,

1668
01:42:12,400 --> 01:42:15,600
Speaker 2: here's a perfect example. Like when we recorded Surfing with

1669
01:42:15,640 --> 01:42:18,320
Speaker 2: the Alien. I went in. I left my apartment that

1670
01:42:18,439 --> 01:42:21,879
Speaker 2: morning to do that session. I'm looking around the apartment.

1671
01:42:21,920 --> 01:42:24,120
Speaker 2: I'm going, what you like, you know, like what I

1672
01:42:24,200 --> 01:42:28,040
Speaker 2: need something, And there's a Wahwa pedal sitting in the corner,

1673
01:42:28,240 --> 01:42:31,360
Speaker 2: dust on it. I purposely did not play it for years.

1674
01:42:31,439 --> 01:42:33,600
Speaker 2: I just sort of like made a rule like do

1675
01:42:33,720 --> 01:42:36,400
Speaker 2: not plug that thing in, Joe, you know. So I

1676
01:42:36,479 --> 01:42:38,720
Speaker 2: just thought, on a whim, I'm going to bring that.

1677
01:42:39,000 --> 01:42:41,639
Speaker 2: So I bring it. I plug it in. I remember

1678
01:42:41,720 --> 01:42:44,360
Speaker 2: John looking at me like, Wowa pedal, Like I thought

1679
01:42:44,400 --> 01:42:47,600
Speaker 2: you'd like swore those things off, you know, And I'm like, oh,

1680
01:42:47,680 --> 01:42:51,240
Speaker 2: let's just try it, you know. And we get around

1681
01:42:51,240 --> 01:42:54,680
Speaker 2: to getting a sound late in the day, it's just

1682
01:42:54,720 --> 01:42:57,360
Speaker 2: about four o'clock. We're supposed to be out of the

1683
01:42:57,439 --> 01:43:00,200
Speaker 2: room studio see at Hyde Street in San francisc Go.

1684
01:43:00,720 --> 01:43:03,599
Speaker 2: The other clients are at the door. They're literally looking

1685
01:43:03,640 --> 01:43:06,719
Speaker 2: at me, like, you know, with their arms folded, like hey,

1686
01:43:06,760 --> 01:43:09,040
Speaker 2: it's four o'clocket out of here. And I'm like, just

1687
01:43:09,120 --> 01:43:13,800
Speaker 2: let me do a pass, you know. And so I

1688
01:43:13,840 --> 01:43:17,960
Speaker 2: hadn't played the melody yet or it's melody solo section

1689
01:43:18,120 --> 01:43:21,799
Speaker 2: melody and then solo at the end with the melody guitar,

1690
01:43:21,840 --> 01:43:24,200
Speaker 2: and that was the one we had set up. So

1691
01:43:24,840 --> 01:43:28,120
Speaker 2: I do this one long take. Guitar is not entirely

1692
01:43:28,160 --> 01:43:31,800
Speaker 2: in tune. The even type processor that we're plugged into,

1693
01:43:32,560 --> 01:43:36,639
Speaker 2: you know, is not working that great. And I get

1694
01:43:36,680 --> 01:43:39,760
Speaker 2: through the end of the piece, all the way to

1695
01:43:39,800 --> 01:43:43,639
Speaker 2: the very end of the song where the fade out

1696
01:43:43,640 --> 01:43:46,680
Speaker 2: would have happened, and that's it, and we have to

1697
01:43:46,720 --> 01:43:49,960
Speaker 2: turn everything off, break everything down, no chance of fixing,

1698
01:43:50,640 --> 01:43:53,639
Speaker 2: you know, like coming in a day later and changing

1699
01:43:53,640 --> 01:43:56,360
Speaker 2: a note because we had to strike the amp and everything.

1700
01:43:57,080 --> 01:43:59,840
Speaker 2: And I just I remember my heart sunk because I thought,

1701
01:43:59,880 --> 01:44:03,240
Speaker 2: oh man, it's like it's so promising. I think I'm

1702
01:44:03,280 --> 01:44:07,280
Speaker 2: onto something right. So, as fate would have it, we

1703
01:44:07,320 --> 01:44:10,760
Speaker 2: could never do anything better to it. So that's what's

1704
01:44:10,800 --> 01:44:14,200
Speaker 2: on the album, and thank god people liked it, you know,

1705
01:44:14,760 --> 01:44:17,400
Speaker 2: but every time I play that on stage, I'm like, Okay,

1706
01:44:17,520 --> 01:44:21,760
Speaker 2: now is Joe, now's your chance to fix that, you know,

1707
01:44:21,880 --> 01:44:25,920
Speaker 2: bar sixty three, to make this in tune and maybe

1708
01:44:25,920 --> 01:44:28,519
Speaker 2: you should try this on the B string instead of

1709
01:44:28,520 --> 01:44:31,120
Speaker 2: the G string. And I'm still working on it, and

1710
01:44:31,200 --> 01:44:36,280
Speaker 2: that alleviates that anxiety of having to abandon a piece

1711
01:44:36,280 --> 01:44:36,799
Speaker 2: of music.

1712
01:44:37,280 --> 01:44:43,000
Speaker 1: You know, Okay, you go work with Mick Jagger, your

1713
01:44:43,040 --> 01:44:46,479
Speaker 1: record moves up the chart, you're done with Mick Jagger.

1714
01:44:46,560 --> 01:44:47,000
Speaker 1: Then what.

1715
01:44:50,360 --> 01:44:55,440
Speaker 2: I wanted to do an entirely different kind of album.

1716
01:44:57,080 --> 01:45:02,640
Speaker 2: I was so satisfied with the way that surfing was embraced.

1717
01:45:02,840 --> 01:45:04,879
Speaker 2: I guess it was the way that it was embraced,

1718
01:45:04,880 --> 01:45:10,120
Speaker 2: you know, like it's not like people focused on one song.

1719
01:45:12,720 --> 01:45:16,080
Speaker 2: What I gathered from touring in all of eighty eight

1720
01:45:16,320 --> 01:45:21,120
Speaker 2: was that people really liked the ballads, the melodies, the

1721
01:45:21,160 --> 01:45:26,160
Speaker 2: guitar magazines like the pirate techniques and the flashy bits,

1722
01:45:26,240 --> 01:45:34,000
Speaker 2: and people that wouldn't normally interview me, like the upbeat,

1723
01:45:34,400 --> 01:45:36,880
Speaker 2: fun attitude of the album. All these things. I thought, well,

1724
01:45:36,880 --> 01:45:39,600
Speaker 2: this is great. If they liked that part of me,

1725
01:45:41,040 --> 01:45:42,800
Speaker 2: then there's no reason for me to try to do

1726
01:45:42,840 --> 01:45:48,479
Speaker 2: this again that I want to keep going in my quest,

1727
01:45:48,800 --> 01:45:52,400
Speaker 2: you know, with guitar playing and so Flying in a

1728
01:45:52,439 --> 01:45:57,599
Speaker 2: Blue Dream was born the idea, and I shocked everyone

1729
01:45:57,840 --> 01:46:00,519
Speaker 2: by saying, look, I want to sing, because what people

1730
01:46:00,560 --> 01:46:04,439
Speaker 2: did know is I'd been in the Squares for five

1731
01:46:04,520 --> 01:46:06,720
Speaker 2: years and I was one of the lead singers. So

1732
01:46:06,920 --> 01:46:09,120
Speaker 2: and as I said before, I always thought i'd be

1733
01:46:09,120 --> 01:46:13,320
Speaker 2: in a vocal rock band, and I realized that after

1734
01:46:13,439 --> 01:46:17,799
Speaker 2: touring with instrumentals in eighty eight and having two tours

1735
01:46:17,800 --> 01:46:20,080
Speaker 2: with Mick Jagger, that there was this real benefit for

1736
01:46:20,600 --> 01:46:24,360
Speaker 2: having vocals because you could really reach people, you know.

1737
01:46:25,280 --> 01:46:31,320
Speaker 2: And the question was would people accept me being in

1738
01:46:31,479 --> 01:46:35,040
Speaker 2: character because I don't have a lead singer's voice. I

1739
01:46:35,040 --> 01:46:39,599
Speaker 2: don't have that talent, you know, but I could hit notes.

1740
01:46:40,200 --> 01:46:43,160
Speaker 2: And I thought, well, if I can get into a

1741
01:46:43,280 --> 01:46:47,519
Speaker 2: character and sing rough for Big Bad Moon and sing

1742
01:46:48,160 --> 01:46:53,519
Speaker 2: in a very heartfelt, demure version of myself where I

1743
01:46:53,600 --> 01:46:57,479
Speaker 2: believe and you know, have these different vocals and try

1744
01:46:57,520 --> 01:47:00,479
Speaker 2: to sing like prints for strange, you know that people

1745
01:47:00,520 --> 01:47:03,559
Speaker 2: would get the joke and they say, yeah, he's not

1746
01:47:03,560 --> 01:47:06,040
Speaker 2: trying to it's just Joe, just Joe having fun in

1747
01:47:06,080 --> 01:47:10,320
Speaker 2: the studio. But it was a big album, eighteen tracks,

1748
01:47:11,200 --> 01:47:18,320
Speaker 2: lots of crazy two hand tapping, harmonica playing. It had

1749
01:47:18,320 --> 01:47:21,479
Speaker 2: a lot of things that I was so excited about

1750
01:47:21,560 --> 01:47:23,519
Speaker 2: that I was just dying to bring out on tour.

1751
01:47:24,280 --> 01:47:30,320
Speaker 2: And again we were really fortunate. I mean those each

1752
01:47:30,360 --> 01:47:33,880
Speaker 2: time I've released a record, it's the records have found

1753
01:47:33,920 --> 01:47:38,920
Speaker 2: their audience, which is just mind blowing, you know. And

1754
01:47:39,000 --> 01:47:41,280
Speaker 2: so I still on this tour right now. I'm singing

1755
01:47:41,320 --> 01:47:45,360
Speaker 2: Big Bad Moon and playing harp and it's so much fun.

1756
01:47:45,400 --> 01:47:47,200
Speaker 2: You know, people get it. They know I'm not a

1757
01:47:47,240 --> 01:47:47,759
Speaker 2: real singer.

1758
01:47:49,800 --> 01:47:53,479
Speaker 1: Let's jump forward. How do you meet Sammy Hagar?

1759
01:47:54,800 --> 01:47:58,920
Speaker 2: I meet Sammy Hagar taking a piss in the men's

1760
01:47:59,000 --> 01:48:03,040
Speaker 2: room of the one of the bammis that's taking place

1761
01:48:03,080 --> 01:48:04,160
Speaker 2: in the Bay Area.

1762
01:48:04,040 --> 01:48:06,040
Speaker 1: The Bay Area Music Awards when there used to be

1763
01:48:06,120 --> 01:48:08,240
Speaker 1: a magazine BAM.

1764
01:48:08,720 --> 01:48:12,880
Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah, and he and I were both up for awards.

1765
01:48:13,400 --> 01:48:16,599
Speaker 2: I was jamming with Ronnie Montrose that night and playing

1766
01:48:16,600 --> 01:48:20,439
Speaker 2: some songs myself. We were both giving awards out, you know,

1767
01:48:21,520 --> 01:48:25,360
Speaker 2: and I knew I'd known who Sammy was. But you're

1768
01:48:25,400 --> 01:48:28,519
Speaker 2: not if if you've never met Sammy Hagar, You're not

1769
01:48:28,560 --> 01:48:33,679
Speaker 2: prepared for the actual event that is being in his presence.

1770
01:48:33,880 --> 01:48:37,400
Speaker 2: Man is like twenty men in one body. You know,

1771
01:48:38,160 --> 01:48:42,439
Speaker 2: he's hysterical, he's so funny, full of energy, even in

1772
01:48:42,479 --> 01:48:47,240
Speaker 2: the men's room in an semi awkward moment. But I

1773
01:48:47,240 --> 01:48:49,240
Speaker 2: guess we hit it off. I don't think because it

1774
01:48:49,280 --> 01:48:51,840
Speaker 2: was the men's room. I'm just saying we hit it off,

1775
01:48:51,880 --> 01:48:54,559
Speaker 2: and then we wound up just bumping into each other

1776
01:48:54,800 --> 01:48:58,439
Speaker 2: at different things like rehearsals or something like that. A

1777
01:48:58,479 --> 01:49:02,040
Speaker 2: gig here, a gig there, and but we didn't really

1778
01:49:02,080 --> 01:49:07,599
Speaker 2: formalize a relationship until he and Neil Neil Sean invited

1779
01:49:07,600 --> 01:49:10,240
Speaker 2: me to join the band Planted Us a few years later.

1780
01:49:11,080 --> 01:49:15,280
Speaker 2: And you know, I was really right in the middle

1781
01:49:15,280 --> 01:49:17,960
Speaker 2: of making an album and booking a tour, and I

1782
01:49:18,000 --> 01:49:20,320
Speaker 2: wasn't quite sure how that was going to work. We

1783
01:49:20,400 --> 01:49:23,559
Speaker 2: did one live radio show and when and then I

1784
01:49:23,600 --> 01:49:25,800
Speaker 2: went on tour, and when I came back, the band

1785
01:49:25,800 --> 01:49:28,720
Speaker 2: had broken up before I had a chance to just

1786
01:49:29,040 --> 01:49:31,479
Speaker 2: even figure out what I was supposed to do in

1787
01:49:31,520 --> 01:49:34,120
Speaker 2: the band, Like, how do you play in a band

1788
01:49:34,120 --> 01:49:36,280
Speaker 2: with Neil Sean? I don't know. He just he's amazing.

1789
01:49:36,320 --> 01:49:41,160
Speaker 2: He covers all the bases, you know. But and then

1790
01:49:41,320 --> 01:49:45,479
Speaker 2: Sam came around again and called me to do chicken

1791
01:49:45,520 --> 01:49:52,160
Speaker 2: Foot back in two thousand and eight, and yeah, one

1792
01:49:52,160 --> 01:49:52,960
Speaker 2: thing led to another.

1793
01:49:53,280 --> 01:49:57,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, how was the experience with chicken Foot? You

1794
01:49:57,800 --> 01:49:58,960
Speaker 1: put out two albums?

1795
01:50:00,640 --> 01:50:06,920
Speaker 2: That's so great. I mean, the x, the palpable excitement

1796
01:50:07,240 --> 01:50:11,920
Speaker 2: in the studio, Sam's Little studio, bringing in a song.

1797
01:50:12,760 --> 01:50:15,080
Speaker 2: You know, I'd email like a song to the guys

1798
01:50:15,960 --> 01:50:19,080
Speaker 2: and someone would say, like, okay, three weeks from now,

1799
01:50:19,520 --> 01:50:23,799
Speaker 2: we got two days at Sam's studio and we arrive,

1800
01:50:24,479 --> 01:50:27,160
Speaker 2: they'd say, oh, yeah, that that that thing you sent us, Joe, Yeah,

1801
01:50:27,200 --> 01:50:30,559
Speaker 2: let's do that right now. And you know, as a band,

1802
01:50:30,600 --> 01:50:32,600
Speaker 2: we'd sort of chop it up and rearrange it, and

1803
01:50:32,600 --> 01:50:35,160
Speaker 2: then we recorded and that would be on the album.

1804
01:50:35,640 --> 01:50:38,240
Speaker 2: I was like stunned that they would want to record

1805
01:50:38,280 --> 01:50:41,080
Speaker 2: that way, but that's how they wanted to record. And

1806
01:50:42,320 --> 01:50:45,519
Speaker 2: so a lot of the first album was done right there,

1807
01:50:45,560 --> 01:50:48,360
Speaker 2: maybe half of it in Sam's little place, the rest

1808
01:50:48,360 --> 01:50:56,560
Speaker 2: of it at Skywalker. And it was always fun, always dangerous,

1809
01:50:57,160 --> 01:51:02,800
Speaker 2: that first tour with Chad destroying drums every night and

1810
01:51:03,800 --> 01:51:06,479
Speaker 2: is so much fun. It was really like it was

1811
01:51:06,560 --> 01:51:10,800
Speaker 2: like being fourteen years old and you know, totally losing

1812
01:51:10,840 --> 01:51:14,280
Speaker 2: control at a high school dancer or someone's backyard party

1813
01:51:14,920 --> 01:51:18,400
Speaker 2: and doing a professional gig all at once. It had

1814
01:51:18,439 --> 01:51:23,360
Speaker 2: that insanity to it and that love of you know,

1815
01:51:23,479 --> 01:51:27,720
Speaker 2: trying to create a true rock and roll moment on stage.

1816
01:51:29,479 --> 01:51:30,360
Speaker 2: Just tons of fun.

1817
01:51:31,360 --> 01:51:34,639
Speaker 1: So what's this tour you're going on with essentially chicken

1818
01:51:34,720 --> 01:51:36,759
Speaker 1: Foot with a different drummer this summer?

1819
01:51:38,760 --> 01:51:41,639
Speaker 2: You know, my perspective of it is so different because

1820
01:51:42,640 --> 01:51:45,720
Speaker 2: Sam called me and he said, I want to do

1821
01:51:46,360 --> 01:51:52,959
Speaker 2: a career retrospective tour where we play Montrose and Hagar

1822
01:51:53,280 --> 01:51:56,160
Speaker 2: and chicken Foot and a couple of your songs and

1823
01:51:56,200 --> 01:51:59,439
Speaker 2: a lot of Vhalen songs, even some roth era songs.

1824
01:52:00,080 --> 01:52:02,560
Speaker 2: And I thought, well, there's no way I'm missing this.

1825
01:52:02,560 --> 01:52:06,479
Speaker 2: This is like my friend, my buddy's having a career

1826
01:52:06,560 --> 01:52:10,920
Speaker 2: retrospective and I'm part of it. I'm lucky enough to

1827
01:52:10,960 --> 01:52:14,080
Speaker 2: be actually part of his career. And so I wanted

1828
01:52:14,080 --> 01:52:16,040
Speaker 2: to do it, and I think I agreed before I

1829
01:52:16,120 --> 01:52:19,519
Speaker 2: really thought the weight of it when it came to

1830
01:52:19,520 --> 01:52:24,120
Speaker 2: the Van Halen stuff, but it was, you know, he said,

1831
01:52:24,120 --> 01:52:26,360
Speaker 2: well it'll be at that time, you know, next summer,

1832
01:52:26,400 --> 01:52:29,840
Speaker 2: and I thought, Okay, I've got these other projects, but

1833
01:52:29,880 --> 01:52:32,400
Speaker 2: I'll have a couple of months to sit down and

1834
01:52:32,439 --> 01:52:35,880
Speaker 2: try to figure out all this Edward van Halen stuff

1835
01:52:35,920 --> 01:52:39,240
Speaker 2: that I avoided learning on purpose all these decades, you know.

1836
01:52:40,760 --> 01:52:42,400
Speaker 2: And then of course he calls me and he says, oh,

1837
01:52:42,400 --> 01:52:45,200
Speaker 2: by the way, we're doing this Howard Stern thing. And

1838
01:52:46,200 --> 01:52:51,080
Speaker 2: at the time, I'd been painting canvases and guitars for

1839
01:52:51,120 --> 01:52:53,759
Speaker 2: three weeks. I was literally I had no callouses left.

1840
01:52:54,200 --> 01:52:57,920
Speaker 2: I hadn't been playing. I was trying to cram for

1841
01:52:58,000 --> 01:53:01,240
Speaker 2: this art show at the Wentwer Gallery that was happening

1842
01:53:01,280 --> 01:53:04,960
Speaker 2: the same week as the Stern show. And so I

1843
01:53:05,000 --> 01:53:06,840
Speaker 2: explained to him myself, well, we can't do it. You know.

1844
01:53:06,880 --> 01:53:10,400
Speaker 2: It's just I'm not gonna play Eddie van Halen music

1845
01:53:10,400 --> 01:53:15,040
Speaker 2: at six in the morning, and besides, I'm painting, you know. Anyway,

1846
01:53:15,240 --> 01:53:19,160
Speaker 2: long story short, they twist my arm. We wind up

1847
01:53:19,200 --> 01:53:23,160
Speaker 2: doing this show and they were great, and they were

1848
01:53:23,520 --> 01:53:26,200
Speaker 2: I mean, Jason, Mike and Sam have been doing these

1849
01:53:26,200 --> 01:53:29,120
Speaker 2: songs for decades now, so they were totally. I just

1850
01:53:29,280 --> 01:53:31,800
Speaker 2: was sort of trying not to screw up too much,

1851
01:53:32,640 --> 01:53:36,160
Speaker 2: remembering each bar as it was coming in front of me.

1852
01:53:36,360 --> 01:53:40,320
Speaker 2: You know, luckily, I'm a big fan of the Van

1853
01:53:40,360 --> 01:53:44,040
Speaker 2: Halen music. So that's that's the memory I was drawing upon,

1854
01:53:44,160 --> 01:53:48,600
Speaker 2: not rehearsal memory, which you know there was none, but

1855
01:53:49,040 --> 01:53:52,240
Speaker 2: now it's the set list that Sam was put together.

1856
01:53:52,520 --> 01:53:55,879
Speaker 2: Is really a lot of fun. It's and super challenging

1857
01:53:56,240 --> 01:53:57,120
Speaker 2: for me for sure.

1858
01:53:59,160 --> 01:54:00,880
Speaker 1: Okay, tell us about the painting thing.

1859
01:54:03,000 --> 01:54:06,760
Speaker 2: So about I mean, I've been drawing ever since I

1860
01:54:06,800 --> 01:54:09,599
Speaker 2: was a little kid, but I didn't really get into

1861
01:54:09,720 --> 01:54:16,760
Speaker 2: painting until about eight years ago. My wife, Rabinis, got

1862
01:54:16,960 --> 01:54:19,679
Speaker 2: a degree in graphic arts. My son wound up getting

1863
01:54:19,680 --> 01:54:21,960
Speaker 2: a degree in art as well, and so there was

1864
01:54:22,000 --> 01:54:26,720
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff around the house begging me to

1865
01:54:26,760 --> 01:54:28,960
Speaker 2: test it out. So I asked my wife, you know, look,

1866
01:54:29,120 --> 01:54:32,720
Speaker 2: I just get me going. When do I use this brush?

1867
01:54:32,720 --> 01:54:34,240
Speaker 2: When do I use this one? Do I have to

1868
01:54:34,280 --> 01:54:37,040
Speaker 2: do something to the canvas before I put on the

1869
01:54:37,080 --> 01:54:39,960
Speaker 2: acrylic or the oil and whatnot? So she gave me

1870
01:54:40,000 --> 01:54:42,080
Speaker 2: a crash course, and I took all the stuff that

1871
01:54:42,120 --> 01:54:45,480
Speaker 2: I had been doing with pen and pencil and with

1872
01:54:45,560 --> 01:54:48,720
Speaker 2: the computer, and I thought, okay, now it's time to

1873
01:54:48,760 --> 01:54:52,520
Speaker 2: get your your fingers dirty, you know, And I found

1874
01:54:52,600 --> 01:54:55,560
Speaker 2: I really loved it, and then I started doing some

1875
01:54:55,600 --> 01:55:00,480
Speaker 2: more guitars as a test. Now I'd done illustrating guitars,

1876
01:55:00,520 --> 01:55:04,160
Speaker 2: you know, with pen just drawing goofy figures, but hadn't

1877
01:55:04,160 --> 01:55:07,840
Speaker 2: done real works of art that stand on their own

1878
01:55:08,760 --> 01:55:12,320
Speaker 2: until I started down this process. And I wasn't thinking

1879
01:55:12,360 --> 01:55:16,200
Speaker 2: of selling them or becoming an artist, so to speak,

1880
01:55:16,760 --> 01:55:20,960
Speaker 2: until I was invited by Corey and Robbiet Scene for

1881
01:55:21,480 --> 01:55:25,400
Speaker 2: Art Collective to do these time laps photography pieces in

1882
01:55:25,480 --> 01:55:28,720
Speaker 2: the dark where you wear led lace gloves and you

1883
01:55:29,000 --> 01:55:32,080
Speaker 2: play your instrument, and then they create these photographs and

1884
01:55:32,160 --> 01:55:36,760
Speaker 2: manipulate them in the in the computer and then print them.

1885
01:55:36,880 --> 01:55:38,800
Speaker 2: And so during a break of the one of the

1886
01:55:38,800 --> 01:55:41,680
Speaker 2: photo sessions, I took up my phone and I said,

1887
01:55:41,720 --> 01:55:43,839
Speaker 2: you know, I've been I've been checking out this stuff.

1888
01:55:43,880 --> 01:55:48,080
Speaker 2: What do you think about oil versus acrylic? You know?

1889
01:55:48,160 --> 01:55:51,480
Speaker 2: And I was just asking art questions, you know, and

1890
01:55:51,600 --> 01:55:54,200
Speaker 2: they got really interested in what they saw and they

1891
01:55:54,240 --> 01:55:58,040
Speaker 2: wanted to collaborate. So we started to do these collaborations

1892
01:55:58,080 --> 01:56:04,800
Speaker 2: with my artwork, getting going into into the computer, using

1893
01:56:04,880 --> 01:56:09,640
Speaker 2: it as backgrounds, adding the images that we were photographing

1894
01:56:09,640 --> 01:56:14,360
Speaker 2: of me playing. Uh. And then one thing led to another,

1895
01:56:14,600 --> 01:56:22,040
Speaker 2: and Corey Denzigers said he wanted to introduce me to

1896
01:56:22,200 --> 01:56:25,440
Speaker 2: Christian O. Mahoney at Wentworth Gallery and he was like,

1897
01:56:25,760 --> 01:56:28,880
Speaker 2: would you paint a lot if people liked it? You know,

1898
01:56:29,440 --> 01:56:32,640
Speaker 2: It's kind of a funny question. And I thought, well, yeah,

1899
01:56:33,280 --> 01:56:35,800
Speaker 2: I would. I think, like, what's a lot? You know.

1900
01:56:36,920 --> 01:56:40,880
Speaker 2: And so once I start talking to Christian, you know,

1901
01:56:41,000 --> 01:56:44,120
Speaker 2: he's like, well it you know, I mean minimum, we'd

1902
01:56:44,160 --> 01:56:46,600
Speaker 2: love to have three hundred pieces. And I'm like, oh,

1903
01:56:47,040 --> 01:56:50,720
Speaker 2: I'd never painted, you know. It was just like, oh

1904
01:56:50,720 --> 01:56:52,720
Speaker 2: my god, Like how does an artist do that? So

1905
01:56:54,320 --> 01:56:57,520
Speaker 2: but I thought it was a really great thing to

1906
01:56:57,560 --> 01:57:02,960
Speaker 2: try and and it has been so wonderful for me

1907
01:57:03,280 --> 01:57:06,760
Speaker 2: just to be able to have the opportunity to express

1908
01:57:06,840 --> 01:57:10,360
Speaker 2: myself not only on the canvas, but also on the guitars.

1909
01:57:11,160 --> 01:57:15,720
Speaker 2: And it's when when I walk into one of the

1910
01:57:15,800 --> 01:57:19,840
Speaker 2: Wentworth galleries and I see nothing but my paintings, it's

1911
01:57:19,920 --> 01:57:22,320
Speaker 2: like hearing your song on the radio for the first time.

1912
01:57:22,840 --> 01:57:26,960
Speaker 2: It's that crazy. It's just it's a bizarre experience. It's

1913
01:57:27,080 --> 01:57:31,600
Speaker 2: very difficult to explain because it's something that you know,

1914
01:57:31,760 --> 01:57:35,120
Speaker 2: it came from inside, that was very personal and all

1915
01:57:35,160 --> 01:57:37,080
Speaker 2: of a sudden, it's in the real world and people

1916
01:57:37,080 --> 01:57:39,440
Speaker 2: are seeing it and commenting on it and buying it

1917
01:57:39,480 --> 01:57:41,560
Speaker 2: and taking it home and looking at it every day.

1918
01:57:41,640 --> 01:57:45,240
Speaker 2: It's just it's It's like when someone says I use

1919
01:57:45,320 --> 01:57:47,760
Speaker 2: your song to get married or at a funeral or

1920
01:57:48,200 --> 01:57:50,560
Speaker 2: at you know this thing. I listen to it every

1921
01:57:50,600 --> 01:57:53,480
Speaker 2: day when I'm on my bike or whatever. It's it's heavy.

1922
01:57:53,880 --> 01:57:54,400
Speaker 2: It's heavy.

1923
01:57:55,040 --> 01:57:59,520
Speaker 1: So you said earlier about music, the public either likes

1924
01:57:59,520 --> 01:58:03,880
Speaker 1: it or does the public like your art so far?

1925
01:58:04,040 --> 01:58:07,760
Speaker 2: Yes, you never know what people are going to like,

1926
01:58:07,880 --> 01:58:10,560
Speaker 2: and that again, this is a perfect example of that.

1927
01:58:10,600 --> 01:58:14,320
Speaker 2: Where I'll do a painting of the moon, I'll do

1928
01:58:14,360 --> 01:58:19,120
Speaker 2: a painting of flag, I'll do painting of guitars, alien,

1929
01:58:19,240 --> 01:58:21,880
Speaker 2: a beautiful woman, and a Drodyn his figure. I don't

1930
01:58:21,880 --> 01:58:23,640
Speaker 2: know what people are going to like. I don't even

1931
01:58:24,280 --> 01:58:28,760
Speaker 2: stop myself, and Christian never stops hanging whatever it is

1932
01:58:28,800 --> 01:58:31,680
Speaker 2: I send him because I think he realizes the same

1933
01:58:31,760 --> 01:58:36,040
Speaker 2: thing is that someone will walk by the shop one

1934
01:58:36,120 --> 01:58:38,720
Speaker 2: day and they'll see a painting of something that I

1935
01:58:38,760 --> 01:58:42,760
Speaker 2: did that we never thought twice about, and they'll say,

1936
01:58:42,800 --> 01:58:45,200
Speaker 2: this means so much to me. And that's what I

1937
01:58:45,280 --> 01:58:48,880
Speaker 2: learned at the art shows. It's really fascinating how it works.

1938
01:58:48,880 --> 01:58:54,680
Speaker 2: So I go there. I spend about twenty minutes with

1939
01:58:54,880 --> 01:58:57,040
Speaker 2: each person that buys a piece of art, and I

1940
01:58:57,080 --> 01:59:00,400
Speaker 2: get to hear from them what they like about it.

1941
01:59:00,440 --> 01:59:02,840
Speaker 2: They want to know all about why I created it.

1942
01:59:03,360 --> 01:59:05,880
Speaker 2: And then at the end of the day I play

1943
01:59:06,080 --> 01:59:08,720
Speaker 2: for about forty five minutes to an hour. If somebody

1944
01:59:08,720 --> 01:59:10,920
Speaker 2: buys one of the painted guitars, we get up and

1945
01:59:10,960 --> 01:59:14,240
Speaker 2: we jam together they if they play guitar. So it's

1946
01:59:14,280 --> 01:59:17,840
Speaker 2: really a fun personal experience, and it's small, you know,

1947
01:59:17,920 --> 01:59:20,520
Speaker 2: it's what fifty people or something like that. It's not

1948
01:59:20,640 --> 01:59:23,560
Speaker 2: like doing a concert at the Beacon Theater or something

1949
01:59:23,600 --> 01:59:27,560
Speaker 2: like that. It's very personal and you really do spend

1950
01:59:27,640 --> 01:59:30,680
Speaker 2: a lot of time with people and the stories that

1951
01:59:30,720 --> 01:59:36,080
Speaker 2: they tell me about how they feel when they look

1952
01:59:36,080 --> 01:59:40,360
Speaker 2: at the painting. It's really touching. It's a profound experience.

1953
01:59:40,880 --> 01:59:42,360
Speaker 2: I have to like get ready for it.

1954
01:59:43,280 --> 01:59:46,280
Speaker 1: I know everything has a different price, but approximately how

1955
01:59:46,360 --> 01:59:49,880
Speaker 1: much does a painting or a guitar or retail for.

1956
01:59:50,120 --> 01:59:53,360
Speaker 2: The guitars are hanging up for about eighteen to twenty

1957
01:59:53,600 --> 01:59:59,320
Speaker 2: thousand dollars the paintings, depending on the size. Maybe I

1958
01:59:59,320 --> 02:00:04,480
Speaker 2: don't know, fifteen to eighteen for a forty by forty canvas,

1959
02:00:05,960 --> 02:00:09,920
Speaker 2: and I know that recently they've done a series of

1960
02:00:10,040 --> 02:00:15,760
Speaker 2: prints on canvas as well as metal. Really beautiful process.

1961
02:00:16,200 --> 02:00:18,280
Speaker 2: I don't really know how they do it, but they

1962
02:00:18,320 --> 02:00:23,160
Speaker 2: transfer the photographs I take of the artwork to this

1963
02:00:23,320 --> 02:00:28,560
Speaker 2: metal medium and it adds this dimension, especially the psychedelic

1964
02:00:28,640 --> 02:00:32,360
Speaker 2: city scapes that I've done blown up, you know, forty

1965
02:00:32,440 --> 02:00:37,880
Speaker 2: or fifty by forty on metal. It's wow, really cool looking.

1966
02:00:38,920 --> 02:00:42,440
Speaker 1: Switching gears totally once again, to what degree are you

1967
02:00:42,480 --> 02:00:43,200
Speaker 1: a gear ahead?

1968
02:00:45,120 --> 02:00:50,400
Speaker 2: Oh? Well, I love gear I mean this is the

1969
02:00:51,240 --> 02:00:56,320
Speaker 2: how far I'll go. When Sam called me for this

1970
02:00:56,440 --> 02:01:01,040
Speaker 2: summer gig, right, the best of all worlds gig, you know,

1971
02:01:01,400 --> 02:01:03,480
Speaker 2: after I said yes and I started to play some

1972
02:01:03,560 --> 02:01:06,800
Speaker 2: van Halen through my amp, I realized my amp is

1973
02:01:06,920 --> 02:01:11,400
Speaker 2: not the proper amp to do the songs properly, you know,

1974
02:01:12,160 --> 02:01:15,280
Speaker 2: and that put me on this quest of you know,

1975
02:01:15,280 --> 02:01:19,960
Speaker 2: I had to put the gearhead hat on and figure out, like,

1976
02:01:20,000 --> 02:01:23,760
Speaker 2: how am I going to represent decades of this genius's work,

1977
02:01:23,840 --> 02:01:26,680
Speaker 2: and because he was a gearhead, you know, how am

1978
02:01:26,680 --> 02:01:29,320
Speaker 2: I going to condense it down into something that's manageable

1979
02:01:29,360 --> 02:01:32,520
Speaker 2: that I can play every night. I went through every

1980
02:01:32,800 --> 02:01:37,600
Speaker 2: manufacturer that made an AMP that could really scream that way,

1981
02:01:38,280 --> 02:01:43,600
Speaker 2: and eventually landed a third power and guitar player designer

1982
02:01:43,600 --> 02:01:48,879
Speaker 2: and owner Delana Scott totally got what I was asking

1983
02:01:49,040 --> 02:01:52,800
Speaker 2: her to do and everything, all the teeny little things

1984
02:01:52,800 --> 02:01:55,320
Speaker 2: that bug guitar players when they're trying to pull things off.

1985
02:01:55,960 --> 02:01:59,240
Speaker 2: And she made me this amp called the Dragon, which

1986
02:02:00,200 --> 02:02:02,880
Speaker 2: blew everybody away. When I showed up at the satch

1987
02:02:02,960 --> 02:02:06,600
Speaker 2: Vi tour and at the very first one and only

1988
02:02:06,640 --> 02:02:09,720
Speaker 2: rehearsal we had in Orlando with this new amp, and

1989
02:02:09,760 --> 02:02:11,760
Speaker 2: I said, I've never played this before, but I want

1990
02:02:11,760 --> 02:02:15,200
Speaker 2: to start playing this thing right now. And I plugged

1991
02:02:15,240 --> 02:02:18,160
Speaker 2: into this thing. I didn't even set the controls. Delana

1992
02:02:18,200 --> 02:02:22,000
Speaker 2: had set all the controls up herself, after you know,

1993
02:02:22,080 --> 02:02:26,520
Speaker 2: weeks of describing things over the phone, email, text and everything,

1994
02:02:27,920 --> 02:02:31,560
Speaker 2: and I haven't touched the dial since. And every night

1995
02:02:31,600 --> 02:02:37,120
Speaker 2: that app sounds so amazing, it's so inspiring, and so

1996
02:02:37,440 --> 02:02:40,120
Speaker 2: to that degree that would that would be a good

1997
02:02:40,120 --> 02:02:45,200
Speaker 2: example of how far I'll go to achieve the right sound.

1998
02:02:45,240 --> 02:02:50,880
Speaker 2: Just for one tour, I will commission a special amp

1999
02:02:51,120 --> 02:02:54,560
Speaker 2: and just dive right in and start using it in

2000
02:02:54,560 --> 02:02:57,640
Speaker 2: front of my audience who's heard me play Marshals forever.

2001
02:02:57,760 --> 02:02:58,040
Speaker 1: You know.

2002
02:03:00,120 --> 02:03:03,600
Speaker 2: But gear is important. It's you know, it's the thing

2003
02:03:03,720 --> 02:03:07,360
Speaker 2: that is going to set you free so that you

2004
02:03:07,440 --> 02:03:10,000
Speaker 2: can be inspired and that the audience can tell if

2005
02:03:10,000 --> 02:03:13,000
Speaker 2: you're inspired or not. They don't care so much about,

2006
02:03:13,520 --> 02:03:16,440
Speaker 2: you know, mistakes like if your strap breaks or your

2007
02:03:16,480 --> 02:03:20,360
Speaker 2: antlows up. That's kind of cool for them because they go,

2008
02:03:20,480 --> 02:03:24,400
Speaker 2: I remember that show that's where his trap broke, his

2009
02:03:24,480 --> 02:03:27,080
Speaker 2: amp blew up, and and he talked to the audience

2010
02:03:27,080 --> 02:03:30,280
Speaker 2: for twenty minutes while they fixed it. You know. But

2011
02:03:30,440 --> 02:03:32,360
Speaker 2: if you go and you do a show and it's

2012
02:03:32,440 --> 02:03:35,840
Speaker 2: lackluster because you're not inspired by your gear, that's the

2013
02:03:35,960 --> 02:03:38,320
Speaker 2: kind of memory you don't want your fans to have.

2014
02:03:38,520 --> 02:03:42,800
Speaker 2: So the gear is there to inspire the artist and

2015
02:03:42,840 --> 02:03:43,440
Speaker 2: the musician.

2016
02:03:44,000 --> 02:03:46,120
Speaker 1: And then how did you decide to play the brand

2017
02:03:46,160 --> 02:03:50,440
Speaker 1: of guitar that you do? That took a long time.

2018
02:03:50,520 --> 02:03:55,960
Speaker 1: I mean, wow, not to bore or your non guitar

2019
02:03:56,000 --> 02:03:59,120
Speaker 1: playing audience. But if I had to whittle it down,

2020
02:03:59,120 --> 02:04:01,520
Speaker 1: I could say, you know, there's Fender, and there's Gibson,

2021
02:04:02,360 --> 02:04:08,600
Speaker 1: there's single coils, and there's humbucking pickups. There's the scale length,

2022
02:04:09,400 --> 02:04:12,640
Speaker 1: tight and snappy of a Telecaster and a Fender, and

2023
02:04:12,680 --> 02:04:16,400
Speaker 1: then there's the warm, fat sound of the Gibson scale

2024
02:04:16,480 --> 02:04:21,040
Speaker 1: length which is shorter Les Paul's three thirty five sgs,

2025
02:04:22,720 --> 02:04:28,040
Speaker 1: and guitar players struggle with that. If they're lucky enough

2026
02:04:28,040 --> 02:04:31,520
Speaker 1: to own two guitars, they'll probably wind up getting one

2027
02:04:31,560 --> 02:04:34,880
Speaker 1: of each. So they're prepared if they're going to do

2028
02:04:34,960 --> 02:04:35,800
Speaker 1: session work.

2029
02:04:35,680 --> 02:04:37,960
Speaker 2: Or they're going to be playing in a cover band

2030
02:04:37,960 --> 02:04:41,480
Speaker 2: and they've got a switch between imitating Hendricks or Jimmy

2031
02:04:41,520 --> 02:04:45,320
Speaker 2: Page or whatever you know. But fast forward to this

2032
02:04:45,440 --> 02:04:48,520
Speaker 2: modern world. There's other things that guitar players do now

2033
02:04:48,600 --> 02:04:51,840
Speaker 2: that are expected, and it has to do with the

2034
02:04:51,920 --> 02:04:55,280
Speaker 2: vibrato bar and then the amount of frets on the guitar.

2035
02:04:55,600 --> 02:05:00,200
Speaker 2: So the early guitar, I mean Fender and Gibson, we're

2036
02:05:00,240 --> 02:05:05,760
Speaker 2: talking guitars that were designed late forties, early fifties, brilliant guitars.

2037
02:05:06,720 --> 02:05:09,000
Speaker 2: They're so brilliant most people still play them. I mean,

2038
02:05:09,360 --> 02:05:11,800
Speaker 2: you just can't do that any better, but you can

2039
02:05:11,920 --> 02:05:17,560
Speaker 2: do something different that gives you more tools, more frets.

2040
02:05:17,680 --> 02:05:21,320
Speaker 2: Most of us play twenty four frent guitars now. It

2041
02:05:21,360 --> 02:05:24,920
Speaker 2: does allow us to play higher, but it also gives

2042
02:05:25,000 --> 02:05:27,520
Speaker 2: us access to what used to be difficult to play

2043
02:05:27,560 --> 02:05:31,520
Speaker 2: in the normal high range. We also have these vibrato

2044
02:05:31,640 --> 02:05:33,560
Speaker 2: bars that allow us to change the picture of the

2045
02:05:33,600 --> 02:05:38,040
Speaker 2: strings in a radical way, and that's become totally accepted

2046
02:05:38,040 --> 02:05:41,920
Speaker 2: now to hear guitars screaming super high and doing dive

2047
02:05:41,960 --> 02:05:48,360
Speaker 2: bombs super low. It's just like normal. So I play

2048
02:05:48,880 --> 02:05:55,280
Speaker 2: a guitar that has been carefully and slowly meticulously fashioned

2049
02:05:56,600 --> 02:05:59,160
Speaker 2: to help me do what I love to do, which

2050
02:05:59,200 --> 02:06:04,320
Speaker 2: is to play beautiful melodies, appropriate solos, memorable chre progressions

2051
02:06:05,520 --> 02:06:09,120
Speaker 2: and makes a lot of strange noises when the time

2052
02:06:09,200 --> 02:06:14,520
Speaker 2: is right, and the thing stays in tune and is

2053
02:06:14,640 --> 02:06:17,640
Speaker 2: just rock solid, you know. And and it's a team

2054
02:06:17,640 --> 02:06:21,560
Speaker 2: effort because you know, the strings from the Dario and

2055
02:06:21,600 --> 02:06:25,760
Speaker 2: the pickups from Demarzio, I mean, everybody, all these companies

2056
02:06:25,880 --> 02:06:29,000
Speaker 2: chip in to help me feel comfortable every time I

2057
02:06:29,080 --> 02:06:32,160
Speaker 2: hit the stage or I'm in the studio and.

2058
02:06:32,160 --> 02:06:33,920
Speaker 1: You go out on the road. Now, how many guitars

2059
02:06:33,960 --> 02:06:36,680
Speaker 1: do you bring with you?

2060
02:06:36,720 --> 02:06:40,240
Speaker 2: No more than ten? I always try to keep it,

2061
02:06:40,880 --> 02:06:46,640
Speaker 2: you know, six, you know, one on the bus, one

2062
02:06:46,720 --> 02:06:51,600
Speaker 2: for backstage, and then I hate the idea of making

2063
02:06:52,040 --> 02:06:55,040
Speaker 2: you know, my tech change strings like four hours every

2064
02:06:55,120 --> 02:06:57,400
Speaker 2: day on every guitar. You know, And so the reality

2065
02:06:57,560 --> 02:07:00,560
Speaker 2: is why so we always try to trim down. If

2066
02:07:00,600 --> 02:07:03,160
Speaker 2: I can get through a show with three guitars, I'll

2067
02:07:03,160 --> 02:07:06,320
Speaker 2: do it. If I've got a couple of songs that

2068
02:07:06,360 --> 02:07:08,760
Speaker 2: have weird tunings, then we're kind of stuck. We have

2069
02:07:08,800 --> 02:07:12,800
Speaker 2: to have them there. But I don't like having to

2070
02:07:12,880 --> 02:07:16,840
Speaker 2: relate to a lot of guitars on a physical level,

2071
02:07:17,080 --> 02:07:18,680
Speaker 2: you know, because they're all different, they all feel a

2072
02:07:18,680 --> 02:07:21,760
Speaker 2: little different. If I could get through a show with

2073
02:07:21,880 --> 02:07:24,960
Speaker 2: one guitar, that would be great, But I abuse them

2074
02:07:25,000 --> 02:07:28,840
Speaker 2: so much. You know, after three songs they need a

2075
02:07:28,840 --> 02:07:32,800
Speaker 2: little tuning up. And this is not the seventies anymore,

2076
02:07:32,840 --> 02:07:34,960
Speaker 2: So you can't do that while people are watching. So

2077
02:07:35,480 --> 02:07:36,920
Speaker 2: you got to hand it off and get a new

2078
02:07:36,960 --> 02:07:38,840
Speaker 2: one and keep the show rolling, you.

2079
02:07:38,760 --> 02:07:46,200
Speaker 1: Know, Okay, and your three favorite rock guitars. Don't put

2080
02:07:46,200 --> 02:07:48,560
Speaker 1: a lot of time and effort on it, just you know,

2081
02:07:49,440 --> 02:07:50,920
Speaker 1: give me off the top of your head.

2082
02:07:51,680 --> 02:07:55,120
Speaker 2: Top of my head, I would really say, Jimmy Hendrix

2083
02:07:56,040 --> 02:08:01,000
Speaker 2: is my all global god of all time. H an

2084
02:08:01,120 --> 02:08:09,560
Speaker 2: innovator to two above all innovators, and uh, it's oh yeah,

2085
02:08:09,800 --> 02:08:14,800
Speaker 2: I mean I can't. I'd have to say I'm going

2086
02:08:14,880 --> 02:08:18,400
Speaker 2: to leap ahead from the guys who I mean everybody,

2087
02:08:18,800 --> 02:08:22,400
Speaker 2: uh influenced somebody else. But I mean I still hear

2088
02:08:22,640 --> 02:08:26,640
Speaker 2: and rely on the pacing and the ingenuity of George

2089
02:08:26,640 --> 02:08:30,640
Speaker 2: Harrison and Keith Richards. I know they don't fit with Hendricks.

2090
02:08:31,520 --> 02:08:34,360
Speaker 2: People expect me to say, you know, Jeff Beck and

2091
02:08:34,600 --> 02:08:37,760
Speaker 2: out in the Holdsworth and stuff like that, but uh,

2092
02:08:38,920 --> 02:08:44,480
Speaker 2: those those three guys, they really laid down some stuff.

2093
02:08:44,880 --> 02:08:50,600
Speaker 2: I mean, they it's just it transcended their technique. They

2094
02:08:50,600 --> 02:08:53,920
Speaker 2: weren't neither of them could play everything, you know, even

2095
02:08:53,960 --> 02:08:59,800
Speaker 2: Hendricks he was not like McLaughlin or Holdsworth. He certainly

2096
02:08:59,800 --> 02:09:03,560
Speaker 2: won't like a Segovia or Christopher Parkning or something like that.

2097
02:09:04,080 --> 02:09:08,520
Speaker 2: So each these were individual human beings that somehow use

2098
02:09:08,640 --> 02:09:13,280
Speaker 2: their bodies to produce music that is so memorable and

2099
02:09:13,320 --> 02:09:17,480
Speaker 2: so loved and so solid and so enduring. They were

2100
02:09:17,480 --> 02:09:23,440
Speaker 2: so inventive all the time, and I rely on that.

2101
02:09:23,520 --> 02:09:27,520
Speaker 2: I feel that, Like every time I'm playing something in

2102
02:09:27,560 --> 02:09:32,840
Speaker 2: me says that's enough, that's not interesting. You know, it's

2103
02:09:32,960 --> 02:09:36,680
Speaker 2: I refer back to the great things that they recorded

2104
02:09:37,440 --> 02:09:43,200
Speaker 2: and and and I'm lucky that they were part that

2105
02:09:43,240 --> 02:09:45,000
Speaker 2: they've been part of my foundation, I think.

2106
02:09:46,080 --> 02:09:48,040
Speaker 1: And if you listen to Hendricks, what do you listen to.

2107
02:09:51,400 --> 02:09:55,040
Speaker 2: Everything? Uh? You know, he was I'm a moody person,

2108
02:09:55,120 --> 02:09:57,960
Speaker 2: and he was very moody, and he produced music that

2109
02:09:58,120 --> 02:10:01,840
Speaker 2: could really make you forget every other song I ever did.

2110
02:10:02,320 --> 02:10:05,280
Speaker 2: So nineteen eighty three, I Meerman and I should turn

2111
02:10:05,320 --> 02:10:08,640
Speaker 2: to be like, that's like four guitar players. I don't

2112
02:10:08,640 --> 02:10:12,440
Speaker 2: know how he did that. That's like so intense, that

2113
02:10:12,560 --> 02:10:17,120
Speaker 2: song so beautiful, and again you get I would say

2114
02:10:17,600 --> 02:10:19,680
Speaker 2: one of the things about Hendricks is that you never

2115
02:10:19,880 --> 02:10:22,720
Speaker 2: got the sense that he practiced or that he was

2116
02:10:22,800 --> 02:10:26,240
Speaker 2: showing you something that he practiced or he learned from

2117
02:10:26,240 --> 02:10:32,440
Speaker 2: a book. It just didn't Nothing was methodical, nothing was didactic.

2118
02:10:32,560 --> 02:10:37,240
Speaker 2: Nothing sounded like I practiced this scale for twelve years

2119
02:10:37,280 --> 02:10:40,400
Speaker 2: and now I'm demonstrating, which a lot of guitar players

2120
02:10:40,400 --> 02:10:44,720
Speaker 2: they you know, they use that for effect. And that's cool.

2121
02:10:44,960 --> 02:10:48,040
Speaker 2: But that's what's so beautiful about what Hendricks did. He

2122
02:10:48,280 --> 02:10:52,200
Speaker 2: just transcended it. I mean a machine gun from Live

2123
02:10:52,200 --> 02:10:55,880
Speaker 2: at the Fillmore, that's the greatest live performance ever. It's

2124
02:10:56,000 --> 02:10:57,680
Speaker 2: just you can't touch it.

2125
02:10:59,440 --> 02:11:04,240
Speaker 1: Okay, you said that you're moody. Listening to you today,

2126
02:11:05,680 --> 02:11:09,600
Speaker 1: I would not have guessed that at all. So am

2127
02:11:09,680 --> 02:11:12,120
Speaker 1: I just getting one aspect of your personality?

2128
02:11:13,040 --> 02:11:16,520
Speaker 2: Well, I'm trying to be a professional musician giving an

2129
02:11:16,520 --> 02:11:20,000
Speaker 2: interview to a very professional person who I respect, and

2130
02:11:20,040 --> 02:11:23,440
Speaker 2: so I don't want to waste your time. But if

2131
02:11:23,480 --> 02:11:25,720
Speaker 2: I was deep in songwriting, if I was writing a

2132
02:11:25,760 --> 02:11:28,360
Speaker 2: sad song, I'd be so deep in it.

2133
02:11:28,960 --> 02:11:33,240
Speaker 1: And well, let's pull it back from music. Are you

2134
02:11:33,320 --> 02:11:38,000
Speaker 1: the type of person who gets depressed? Are you an introvert? Extrovert?

2135
02:11:38,040 --> 02:11:41,280
Speaker 1: Who's the Who's the Joe Satriani behind the curtain?

2136
02:11:43,720 --> 02:11:47,240
Speaker 2: Oh wow, you'd have to ask my wife and son

2137
02:11:47,280 --> 02:11:57,160
Speaker 2: about that. But I think I enjoy diving deep into

2138
02:11:57,920 --> 02:12:02,280
Speaker 2: a mood, uh, you know, to write music, to paint,

2139
02:12:02,880 --> 02:12:08,640
Speaker 2: just just to feel it. And and if I if

2140
02:12:08,680 --> 02:12:12,200
Speaker 2: I something's bothering me about something like you know, let's

2141
02:12:12,200 --> 02:12:14,720
Speaker 2: say I'm looking at the I pull up a CNN

2142
02:12:14,800 --> 02:12:17,160
Speaker 2: and I see a report about something I wasn't thinking

2143
02:12:17,160 --> 02:12:21,240
Speaker 2: about and it shocks me. I'll dive deep. I'll keep

2144
02:12:21,280 --> 02:12:25,240
Speaker 2: researching that story. And you know, most people will go, oh,

2145
02:12:25,280 --> 02:12:27,760
Speaker 2: you know, I don't want to read about that tragedy

2146
02:12:27,840 --> 02:12:30,960
Speaker 2: or that horrible thing. You know, I will. I'll go

2147
02:12:31,280 --> 02:12:33,240
Speaker 2: all the way deep into it. I want to know

2148
02:12:33,400 --> 02:12:39,560
Speaker 2: about that and and and it's different, it's separate from

2149
02:12:39,560 --> 02:12:41,760
Speaker 2: that part of me that just would do that to

2150
02:12:41,800 --> 02:12:44,600
Speaker 2: write a song. Although that's how I write songs. I

2151
02:12:44,600 --> 02:12:49,400
Speaker 2: can't write songs for order, you know, Like if you

2152
02:12:49,480 --> 02:12:52,840
Speaker 2: ask me, you know, Joe, I need a song for

2153
02:12:53,000 --> 02:12:54,880
Speaker 2: my podcast, you know, I'd be like, oh God, this

2154
02:12:55,000 --> 02:12:59,200
Speaker 2: is work, you know, But I will write it. I

2155
02:12:59,240 --> 02:13:01,120
Speaker 2: will write a few songs by the end of the

2156
02:13:01,120 --> 02:13:05,040
Speaker 2: week about what I've seen, experienced and felt, what I dreamt,

2157
02:13:05,600 --> 02:13:09,000
Speaker 2: something real, something imagined, because that's the way I write.

2158
02:13:09,040 --> 02:13:11,560
Speaker 2: I just write about real experience, which means I have

2159
02:13:11,640 --> 02:13:17,320
Speaker 2: to go deep and like find out what the real

2160
02:13:17,400 --> 02:13:20,240
Speaker 2: truth is about this feeling that I have. And that's

2161
02:13:20,240 --> 02:13:23,800
Speaker 2: the only method I have to edit myself. And you know,

2162
02:13:23,840 --> 02:13:26,240
Speaker 2: when you're writing music, you have to edit. You got

2163
02:13:26,280 --> 02:13:29,120
Speaker 2: to take out all the notes that mean nothing to

2164
02:13:29,200 --> 02:13:33,360
Speaker 2: get down to the notes that mean everything, so that

2165
02:13:33,400 --> 02:13:36,960
Speaker 2: the song is specific about this story you're trying to

2166
02:13:37,000 --> 02:13:41,360
Speaker 2: reach people with, you know. So that's when the mood thing,

2167
02:13:42,680 --> 02:13:48,080
Speaker 2: my moodiness is beneficial, so I can really turn it

2168
02:13:48,120 --> 02:13:51,320
Speaker 2: on and I don't mind wallowing in it or brooding.

2169
02:13:51,680 --> 02:13:54,720
Speaker 2: That said Michael Tilson. Thomas said to me once he

2170
02:13:54,800 --> 02:13:57,560
Speaker 2: was listening to my catalog and he wrote me an

2171
02:13:57,600 --> 02:14:00,600
Speaker 2: email and he said, brooding, brooding is good.

2172
02:14:03,200 --> 02:14:06,360
Speaker 1: Okay, As someone who has worked as a musician for decades,

2173
02:14:06,960 --> 02:14:10,040
Speaker 1: did you ever sew your wild out? So you're basically

2174
02:14:10,120 --> 02:14:13,360
Speaker 1: the guy from Westbury, Long Island, not drinking and drug

2175
02:14:13,520 --> 02:14:15,480
Speaker 1: and going back to the room or back to your

2176
02:14:15,480 --> 02:14:16,640
Speaker 1: bunk after the show.

2177
02:14:18,800 --> 02:14:23,480
Speaker 2: I was famous for delaying going to the party during

2178
02:14:23,560 --> 02:14:27,000
Speaker 2: high school because they'd say, come on, we're leaving. It'd

2179
02:14:27,000 --> 02:14:29,880
Speaker 2: be like eight, you know, we're going out to so

2180
02:14:30,000 --> 02:14:31,720
Speaker 2: and so place is going to be insane, and I'd go,

2181
02:14:31,800 --> 02:14:34,520
Speaker 2: I'll meet you there at eleven thirty, you know. And

2182
02:14:34,560 --> 02:14:38,720
Speaker 2: because if I hadn't done every scale at every metronome

2183
02:14:38,920 --> 02:14:42,000
Speaker 2: level whatever, I just couldn't live with myself. So I

2184
02:14:42,040 --> 02:14:45,000
Speaker 2: would practice and practice and practice, and then i'd meet

2185
02:14:45,000 --> 02:14:47,120
Speaker 2: them later and I'd arrive at the party and everyone

2186
02:14:47,160 --> 02:14:49,760
Speaker 2: would be totally wasted and so and I'd go like, oh,

2187
02:14:49,800 --> 02:14:53,400
Speaker 2: this doesn't look very cool. So I mean, I did

2188
02:14:53,440 --> 02:14:56,240
Speaker 2: my share of partying but it never took over my life.

2189
02:14:56,280 --> 02:15:02,800
Speaker 2: It never confused me. It never took the place of

2190
02:15:02,840 --> 02:15:07,080
Speaker 2: connecting with my friends or the people I fell in

2191
02:15:07,120 --> 02:15:09,520
Speaker 2: love with, and certainly never got in front of the music.

2192
02:15:09,920 --> 02:15:15,280
Speaker 1: You know, how'd you meet your wife?

2193
02:15:15,680 --> 02:15:18,760
Speaker 2: Okay, let's see if I can do this sinkly as possible.

2194
02:15:19,160 --> 02:15:24,560
Speaker 2: My older sister's current boyfriend at the time had a daughter,

2195
02:15:25,680 --> 02:15:30,760
Speaker 2: and the daughter had a roommate, two roommates. One of

2196
02:15:30,760 --> 02:15:35,200
Speaker 2: the roommates was my future wife. And I had moved

2197
02:15:35,480 --> 02:15:39,160
Speaker 2: to Berkeley and I'd been practicing like twelve hours a

2198
02:15:39,240 --> 02:15:42,440
Speaker 2: day for like two months, and I was living with

2199
02:15:42,480 --> 02:15:46,000
Speaker 2: my sisters at the time. And one night, my sister

2200
02:15:46,120 --> 02:15:48,360
Speaker 2: Jones said, you have to get out of the house,

2201
02:15:48,640 --> 02:15:51,840
Speaker 2: like you cannot just you know, be a hermit with

2202
02:15:51,880 --> 02:15:54,640
Speaker 2: the guitar. And I was like, okay, okay. She said,

2203
02:15:55,200 --> 02:15:59,360
Speaker 2: you know, my boyfriend's daughter is having a birthday party.

2204
02:15:59,560 --> 02:16:01,880
Speaker 2: You're a wich want don't you just come? And I

2205
02:16:02,000 --> 02:16:04,360
Speaker 2: just said, okay, I just gave up. You know, I

2206
02:16:04,400 --> 02:16:07,040
Speaker 2: was tired from practicing. So I went there and there

2207
02:16:07,080 --> 02:16:09,360
Speaker 2: she was. That's how we met.

2208
02:16:10,120 --> 02:16:13,200
Speaker 1: And was it an instant romance for me?

2209
02:16:13,600 --> 02:16:17,839
Speaker 2: It was. It took a lot of work to convince

2210
02:16:17,880 --> 02:16:20,440
Speaker 2: my wife because I was unemployed. I kind of looked

2211
02:16:20,520 --> 02:16:23,640
Speaker 2: like Cat Stevens when it was Maybe I shouldn't have

2212
02:16:23,640 --> 02:16:26,760
Speaker 2: looked like Cat Stevens at the time, you know, long hair, beard,

2213
02:16:27,600 --> 02:16:30,240
Speaker 2: wearing clothes that were maybe a couple of years too old.

2214
02:16:33,080 --> 02:16:37,720
Speaker 2: But that was nineteen seventy seven, so we've been together

2215
02:16:37,760 --> 02:16:38,280
Speaker 2: ever since.

2216
02:16:39,760 --> 02:16:43,000
Speaker 1: And when you're off the road, are you the type

2217
02:16:43,040 --> 02:16:46,600
Speaker 1: of person who's deep into your mood or you're burning

2218
02:16:46,720 --> 02:16:49,840
Speaker 1: up the airways on the phone, whether it be text, email,

2219
02:16:50,200 --> 02:16:52,680
Speaker 1: actual phone calls.

2220
02:16:53,320 --> 02:16:58,720
Speaker 2: Uh? Well, you, I mean, there's so much business that

2221
02:16:59,200 --> 02:17:03,160
Speaker 2: is on the artists today. You know that there there

2222
02:17:03,400 --> 02:17:07,800
Speaker 2: there's no more staff at the label to handle things.

2223
02:17:07,920 --> 02:17:11,080
Speaker 2: You know, it's just the artist has to be online

2224
02:17:11,160 --> 02:17:15,960
Speaker 2: every day keep things going. So I'm not obsessive about it.

2225
02:17:16,280 --> 02:17:18,720
Speaker 2: I don't. I never post about private things. I don't

2226
02:17:18,760 --> 02:17:20,879
Speaker 2: show people what I'm meeting for lunch or dinner or

2227
02:17:20,879 --> 02:17:25,480
Speaker 2: any of that kind of stuff. I keep that part private.

2228
02:17:25,640 --> 02:17:29,200
Speaker 2: And I focus on the music and you know, the

2229
02:17:29,200 --> 02:17:33,959
Speaker 2: the albums and the and the tours. But I I

2230
02:17:34,000 --> 02:17:43,680
Speaker 2: always find that I have to structure practice for the

2231
02:17:43,760 --> 02:17:47,280
Speaker 2: next project. I have to carve out time to be

2232
02:17:47,360 --> 02:17:51,160
Speaker 2: left alone to write. I like writing alone. I love

2233
02:17:51,200 --> 02:17:55,520
Speaker 2: having two months to brainstorm and to collect all the

2234
02:17:55,560 --> 02:17:58,640
Speaker 2: materials that I write. I write a lot, you know,

2235
02:17:58,720 --> 02:18:01,800
Speaker 2: and only use a third maybe or a quarter for

2236
02:18:01,840 --> 02:18:08,359
Speaker 2: an album. But I think in the last twenty years

2237
02:18:08,480 --> 02:18:11,640
Speaker 2: it seemed like there's been more randomness. I mean, the

2238
02:18:11,879 --> 02:18:16,840
Speaker 2: album cycles have changed. Social media has completely upended the

2239
02:18:16,920 --> 02:18:19,840
Speaker 2: old model of how to deal with press and going

2240
02:18:19,879 --> 02:18:23,040
Speaker 2: away and coming back, you know, that that whole routine

2241
02:18:23,080 --> 02:18:26,400
Speaker 2: of trying to maintain an audience, you know, presence through absence,

2242
02:18:26,440 --> 02:18:30,560
Speaker 2: that kind of thing, and so you were always kind

2243
02:18:30,560 --> 02:18:34,480
Speaker 2: of like doing something, you know, but then having the collaboration,

2244
02:18:34,720 --> 02:18:40,040
Speaker 2: especially with Sam and Chickenfoot, was quite unique, and then

2245
02:18:40,240 --> 02:18:44,560
Speaker 2: the cycle of the G three's, and it's just it's been,

2246
02:18:46,320 --> 02:18:48,800
Speaker 2: I want to say, more different. It sounds kind of weak,

2247
02:18:48,920 --> 02:18:51,320
Speaker 2: but it just seems like it's been a little bit

2248
02:18:51,360 --> 02:18:54,640
Speaker 2: more random the last fifteen or twenty years than the

2249
02:18:54,720 --> 02:18:57,439
Speaker 2: previous fifteen or twenty which were a little bit more streamlined.

2250
02:18:57,720 --> 02:19:01,520
Speaker 1: Well, hanging on that same point, if one talks to

2251
02:19:01,560 --> 02:19:05,840
Speaker 1: someone who's a professional sideman, professional studio musician, to the

2252
02:19:05,879 --> 02:19:10,400
Speaker 1: degree they still have those they're really big networkers Okay,

2253
02:19:10,720 --> 02:19:12,560
Speaker 1: I'm not saying this is the way, it is, just talking.

2254
02:19:12,600 --> 02:19:15,400
Speaker 1: You know. Well I was doing this and this person

2255
02:19:15,520 --> 02:19:20,600
Speaker 1: called me here and I was driven, you know, who

2256
02:19:20,640 --> 02:19:20,920
Speaker 1: are you?

2257
02:19:21,920 --> 02:19:25,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't network. I don't. Yeah, I don't. As

2258
02:19:25,600 --> 02:19:28,640
Speaker 2: people call me, I guess they reach out or they

2259
02:19:28,680 --> 02:19:33,840
Speaker 2: reach out to my manager, and you know, eventually, if

2260
02:19:33,879 --> 02:19:37,039
Speaker 2: they know that it's okay to call me in a

2261
02:19:37,080 --> 02:19:40,480
Speaker 2: particular week or something, they'll say, hey, you interested in this?

2262
02:19:40,560 --> 02:19:42,880
Speaker 2: I just got this from so and so. You know,

2263
02:19:44,640 --> 02:19:48,600
Speaker 2: but I, yeah, I don't do that. I you know,

2264
02:19:48,760 --> 02:19:53,680
Speaker 2: back in eighty eight, I signed to oh this company,

2265
02:19:53,680 --> 02:20:00,760
Speaker 2: gour Vain and Schwartz down in La to do soundtracks.

2266
02:20:01,280 --> 02:20:03,560
Speaker 2: Everyone was, oh, you're going to be doing soundtracks. Everyone

2267
02:20:03,640 --> 02:20:08,080
Speaker 2: loves the Sincerenrato music. I had this deep u suspicion

2268
02:20:08,520 --> 02:20:11,560
Speaker 2: because right away they thought, oh, they don't want to

2269
02:20:11,560 --> 02:20:13,560
Speaker 2: listen to my music as it is. They have to

2270
02:20:13,600 --> 02:20:17,120
Speaker 2: see something in order to accept music. But you know,

2271
02:20:17,200 --> 02:20:20,119
Speaker 2: it's just like work. You know, you spend enough decades

2272
02:20:20,160 --> 02:20:23,320
Speaker 2: not working as a musician. You never snicker at the

2273
02:20:23,400 --> 02:20:27,600
Speaker 2: offer of employment, you know. So I thought, okay, I'll

2274
02:20:27,640 --> 02:20:31,119
Speaker 2: try it, and then then I you know, they were

2275
02:20:31,160 --> 02:20:33,480
Speaker 2: sending scripts that were horrible, and then there were all

2276
02:20:33,480 --> 02:20:37,080
Speaker 2: these you know, invitations, Oh, you should go lunch with

2277
02:20:37,120 --> 02:20:38,920
Speaker 2: this guy, you should go, you know, And I kept saying,

2278
02:20:39,200 --> 02:20:42,280
Speaker 2: you realize I live in San Francisco. I'm not in Hollywood,

2279
02:20:42,280 --> 02:20:44,879
Speaker 2: you know, and you should move to Hollywood, you know.

2280
02:20:44,920 --> 02:20:46,520
Speaker 2: And because you got to hang out with this these

2281
02:20:46,560 --> 02:20:49,480
Speaker 2: people know those people, and I just said no, and

2282
02:20:49,560 --> 02:20:52,080
Speaker 2: I that was the end of that contract, and I said,

2283
02:20:52,080 --> 02:20:53,800
Speaker 2: I don't want to be bothered by any of this.

2284
02:20:54,480 --> 02:20:59,920
Speaker 2: It's like I can't write music while I'm I'm prefer

2285
02:21:00,360 --> 02:21:04,080
Speaker 2: people not to be their friends, but to get work.

2286
02:21:04,160 --> 02:21:08,040
Speaker 2: I just didn't seem sincere at all. And so I

2287
02:21:08,120 --> 02:21:11,440
Speaker 2: mean there are I mean, you know, I gave up

2288
02:21:12,640 --> 02:21:15,879
Speaker 2: doing drugs because I realized that people who were making

2289
02:21:15,959 --> 02:21:19,720
Speaker 2: money making and selling drugs were people that I wouldn't like,

2290
02:21:20,520 --> 02:21:26,320
Speaker 2: So why would I help them? You know? And I

2291
02:21:26,360 --> 02:21:29,920
Speaker 2: thought the same thing, like why would I be insincere

2292
02:21:30,240 --> 02:21:35,200
Speaker 2: in friendships when I don't believe in being insincere. So

2293
02:21:35,640 --> 02:21:38,920
Speaker 2: that was easy for me just to tell management, like, no,

2294
02:21:39,000 --> 02:21:41,120
Speaker 2: I'm not going to do that. I'm just going to

2295
02:21:41,800 --> 02:21:44,360
Speaker 2: keep doing what I'm doing. And if people like the music, great,

2296
02:21:45,040 --> 02:21:47,320
Speaker 2: if they invite me to go on tour. Great. If

2297
02:21:47,320 --> 02:21:51,720
Speaker 2: they don't, I'll take my lumps when they come. But

2298
02:21:52,000 --> 02:21:53,440
Speaker 2: I'm not going to be fake. I'm not going to

2299
02:21:54,240 --> 02:21:56,879
Speaker 2: you know, move where I don't want to live and

2300
02:21:57,200 --> 02:21:58,680
Speaker 2: go to lunch with people I don't like.

2301
02:22:00,200 --> 02:22:02,640
Speaker 1: Well, you know that brings up so many questions, but

2302
02:22:02,879 --> 02:22:04,800
Speaker 1: I think we've come to the end of the feeling

2303
02:22:04,840 --> 02:22:10,400
Speaker 1: we've known for today. Joe, You've been so sincere, so upfront.

2304
02:22:10,760 --> 02:22:13,320
Speaker 1: I can literally continue for hours. There's so much more

2305
02:22:13,360 --> 02:22:16,160
Speaker 1: stuff I wanted to ask, but I wanted it the highlights.

2306
02:22:16,760 --> 02:22:20,160
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for taking the time to

2307
02:22:20,240 --> 02:22:21,600
Speaker 1: talk to me and my audience.

2308
02:22:22,280 --> 02:22:25,400
Speaker 2: Oh this has been wonderful. I love your newsletters. They're

2309
02:22:25,440 --> 02:22:27,240
Speaker 2: really great. Don't stop.

2310
02:22:28,560 --> 02:22:30,360
Speaker 1: I won't and I know you won't either.

2311
02:22:32,920 --> 02:22:35,920
Speaker 2: Fantastic And the podcast are just that's really great that

2312
02:22:36,320 --> 02:22:40,120
Speaker 2: you do this a voice of reason and insight that

2313
02:22:40,720 --> 02:22:42,840
Speaker 2: people need and I enjoy.

2314
02:22:43,120 --> 02:22:46,600
Speaker 1: Well. Thank you, Joe. In any event, till next time,

2315
02:22:47,200 --> 02:22:48,720
Speaker 1: This is Bob left Sense