1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class A production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy B. 3 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. Uh. If you're brand new 4 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: to the show, Friday's or when we talk about a 5 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: little bit of behind the scenes, whether it's the research 6 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: process for a particular episode, or how you and I 7 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: personally have connected with it, things like that. For the 8 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: drey Fist affair, this turned out to be way harder 9 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: than I was expecting it to be. Uh, it's frustrating, 10 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: lee hard information to like sit with. Yeah, and in 11 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: addition to them, you know, the fact that anti Semitism 12 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: is definitely not over. It is still a major problem. 13 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 1: There were also a lot of things that were part 14 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: of the context for it that I don't think we 15 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: have ever discussed on the show. Like we have covered 16 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: other sub objects that happened during the French Third Republic, 17 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: but we had never really given an overview of the 18 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: French Third Republic. So it was like I had to 19 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: get a lot more versed in the specifics of the 20 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: Third Republic. And then also the Boulange scandal and the 21 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: Panama Canal scandal. At it was like I felt like 22 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: I wound up needing to research three additional episodes in 23 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: addition to the Dreyfus affair to have the context make sense, 24 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: which turned out to be a lot. Um. We had 25 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: to postpone our recordings this week because of construction that 26 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 1: was happening in my backyard, and that was the only 27 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,759 Speaker 1: thing that allowed me to finish it in time to record. 28 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: Sometimes things that seem like a setback are actually a 29 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: great help. Yeah, I just find myself every time we 30 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: were talking about, um, the acquittal or the the appeals 31 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: in particular, even though I had had read through all 32 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: of this before, Like, as we sat here saying the words, 33 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: I just found myself getting like red, rage angry when 34 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: it was like and he was once again found guilty 35 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: and I'm like what yeah, yeah, Um. That's also one 36 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: of the reasons that I wanted to take some more 37 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: time talking about the contextualizing of this because, um, like 38 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: I said at the very top of the very first episode, UM, 39 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: this comes up a lot as an example of anti 40 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: Semitism in France and uh, just the persecution of Jewish people, 41 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: and that is absolutely a huge part of this story. 42 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: But then there are also all these other elements that 43 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: still seem really relevant today. Two things that are going on, 44 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: like like newspapers picking out a couple of villains and 45 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: just focusing on demonizing them regardless of what they've actually 46 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: done or whether that accurately represents the whole situation. Uh, 47 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: we have you know, we've just been through a whole 48 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: pandemic mich that is still going on, where people's opinions 49 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: on whether this was a serious problem and is still 50 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: a serious problem are influenced by news coverage, some of 51 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 1: which is just not accurate and some of it is 52 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 1: intentionally not accurate. And it's like that kind of stuff 53 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: was also a huge part of the Dreyfus affair. So 54 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: I kept having these moments where I was like, this 55 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: just happened. This just I just watched a replay of 56 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: this happening in current life of this event from you know, 57 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: more than a hundred years ago. Yeah, I mean, my 58 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: hope would be that that that will remind people to 59 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: always be very very careful about what they believe in media, 60 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: regardless of what your position is, um to always just 61 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: be really critical of what you're taking in and what 62 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: its intent. Maybe, but I don't know it seems like 63 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: we never learned. We just keep doing the same stuff 64 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: over and over. So of my hopes maybe dashed, but 65 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: I will just throw a nod to There is a 66 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: Crash course, which is a series on YouTube. There is 67 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: a Crash course on media literacy UM and on like 68 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 1: how to evaluate sources and figure out if the information 69 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: that they're sharing is correct or you know, whether it's 70 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: effectively propaganda, which so much of what was written during 71 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 1: the drapast Fair really was. There are just piles and 72 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: piles and piles of caricatures and articles and all of that, 73 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:46,119 Speaker 1: uh that you can you know, page through and see 74 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: just this enormous volume of of material that was generated 75 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 1: about this one thing, some of which very accurate, some 76 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: of which not accurate. There are lots of different books 77 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: on this um and one of the ones that I 78 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 1: read that I found really interesting is called Dreyfus A 79 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: Family Affair by Michael Burns, And that's not the newest 80 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: work on this um, but it looks at all of it, 81 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 1: like through the lens of the Dreyfuss and what they 82 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: were going through, what Lucy and Matthew were doing to 83 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: try to to try to exonerate Alfred, which I honestly 84 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 1: found to be a refreshing approach because so many books 85 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: about incidents like this are so focused on like the 86 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: timeline and the context, all of which is really important. 87 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: But I felt like taking a look at it through 88 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 1: the Dreyfuss and really being focused on them and what 89 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 1: how it was affecting them moment to moment made it 90 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: a lot more of a human story, uh, than feeling 91 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: like it was sort of um an event that happened 92 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: without really connecting to actual people who were involved. Yeah, 93 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: it's also fascinating to me to think about it in 94 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: that context, remembering the Dreyfus himself had no idea that 95 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: a lot of that was going on. Yeah, he had 96 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: no idea at all. His all of his mail was 97 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: being censored and he wasn't allowed to have newspapers, so um. 98 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: It was really after he got back to France then, 99 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 1: like there's a mob scene and he's like why, I 100 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,679 Speaker 1: don't understand, Like in his mind it was his wife 101 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: and his brother were trying to get his name cleared 102 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: as this sort of like private just the two of them, 103 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: lonely effort um, really having no idea that there was 104 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 1: this you know, giant, enormously internationally publicized schism happening in France, 105 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: having no idea that people like Emil Zolau were on 106 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: his side writing his Jacques letter like he was totally 107 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: not aware of any of that while he was in prison. 108 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: I can only imagine how shocking that must be, especially 109 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: when the conditions he was being held in are designed 110 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: to make someone kind of mentally not in a good place, 111 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: and you know, intended to break someone. So of course 112 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: he probably felt so utterly helpless and alone at a 113 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: level that is hard to even consider if you don't 114 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: live through something like that. To then realize that, in fact, 115 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: a whole lot had been done in his name by 116 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: a whole lot of people, that has to be like 117 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: a weird gear change to deal with, both intellectually and emotionally, Like, 118 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: I don't I don't know how someone could handle something 119 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, that's one of the reasons why they 120 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,679 Speaker 1: first when he got back and when he had been freed, 121 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: they went to a place they had previously vacationed and 122 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: they had fond memories there and then knew it was 123 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: going to be kind of a quiet and RESTful place. Uh. 124 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: Like that was one of the reasons to like just 125 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: sort of try to get back to any sense of 126 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: what was real and normal. Um, and then they wound 127 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: up having to go to Switzerland because there were they 128 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: kept attracting attention of both like anti Drapassard's and well meaning, 129 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: well wishing people who were coming to wish him well 130 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: when really he was like I just I would like 131 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: to be left alone for a while quiet. Yeah. So, uh, 132 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: this episode turned out to just be a lot more 133 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 1: complicated than I was expecting it to be said, but 134 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: I'm glad I managed to dive into it, managed to 135 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 1: get it done for us to record it, thanks thanks 136 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: to loud work being done outside my house. Thank you 137 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: loud work. Yeah. So, if you'd like to send us 138 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: a note, were at History Podcast at i heeart radio 139 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: dot com. If you have not subscribed to the show, 140 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: we're on basically every podcast player that there is. Whatever 141 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,559 Speaker 1: is on your plate for the weekend, I hope it 142 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: is great. We'll be back tomorrow with a classic and 143 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: then Monday with a brand new episode. Stuff you Missed 144 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 1: in History Class is a production of I heart Radio. 145 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i 146 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: heart Radio app Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to 147 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.