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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. We've made it to Wednesday, July sixteenth,

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Speaker 2: and we have a stacked night of headlines. So we're

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Speaker 2: going to be digging into this alleged parent killer, Sarah

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Speaker 2: Grace Patrick. We spoke about her a little bit last night.

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Speaker 2: One of her family members, surviving family members, I might add,

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Speaker 2: is speaking out in her defense. Also, we're going to

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Speaker 2: be discussing the very tragic case of American Idol music

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Speaker 2: producer Robin Kay and her husband double murder in California,

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Speaker 2: and some new developments happening in that case.

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Speaker 3: And also we have award.

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Speaker 2: Winning Emmy Award winning journalist and legal analyst Michael Bryant

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Speaker 2: will be joining us to talk about our two favorite topics,

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Speaker 2: Epstein and Karen Reid.

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Speaker 3: So buckle up.

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Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Leidecker, and I head of f KT Studios

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Speaker 2: where we get to make true crime podcasts and documentaries

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Speaker 2: and I get to do that with Courtney Armstrong and

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Speaker 2: Body move in.

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Speaker 3: And we also want to make sure we're.

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Speaker 2: Hearing from you, so please, you've been so great about

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Speaker 2: calling in and leaving us talkbacks, keep them coming eight

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Speaker 2: eight eight three one Crime again, eight eight eight three

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Speaker 2: one Crime. And you could also hit us up on

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Speaker 2: our socials as always, at True Crime Tonight show on

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Speaker 2: Instagram and TikTok or at True Crime Tonight on Facebook.

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Speaker 2: And also you could leave us a talk back. You

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Speaker 2: guys are getting so good about doing this. Basically, you

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Speaker 2: download the iHeart app. It's free, top right hand corner,

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Speaker 2: press a button and you get to leave a little

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Speaker 2: voice memo and boom, you are on the show. So

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Speaker 2: please keep the conversation coming. So Body headlines they are

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Speaker 2: a buzz in tonight.

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Speaker 3: So they are.

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Speaker 4: But it's kind of hard to pick which one to

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Speaker 4: lead with. I don't know, So here's what we decided.

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Speaker 4: Here's what we decided on that Pam Bondie. She is

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Speaker 4: the United States Attorney General, and today she fired the

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Speaker 4: US prosecutor who put Jeffrey Epstein and Going Maxwell behind bars.

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Speaker 4: However failed to prosecute Diddy to the full extent.

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Speaker 3: So that's the number one headline right now. We're going

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Speaker 3: to get into that a little bit later, and.

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Speaker 4: Then additionally, we want to kind of go over the

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Speaker 4: metadata and the video and the absence of this client list.

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Speaker 4: It's kind of like the perfect storm of controversy. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 4: it's the United perfect story is So just a brief

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Speaker 4: quick summary before we bring our guest on board. The

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Speaker 4: Wired magazine initiated a forensic analysis, a digital analysis of

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Speaker 4: the video that the Department of Justice released. And the

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Speaker 4: video is basically the surveillance of Epstein's cell. Okay, so

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Speaker 4: the camera's kind of pointing into the shoe area, which

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Speaker 4: is where Epstein was housed, well, the exterior of the

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Speaker 4: cereal yes, yes, not the inside. You can't even really

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Speaker 4: see his door. It's kind of hokey, Okay, they call

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Speaker 4: it the shoe. That's so cool. The shoe so interesting.

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Speaker 3: I learned that from watching an HBO show. Anyway, So

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Speaker 3: the wire, the.

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Speaker 5: Wire, I was gonna say, are we on the wire?

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Speaker 4: No, it was actually called OZ but anyway, even SCARIERUS

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Speaker 4: was scary, Yeah, as was so good. Anyway, So it's

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Speaker 4: pointing at the shoe and there's obviously a minute missing

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Speaker 4: from the timestamp. They're so free it jumps from eleven

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Speaker 4: to fifty eight in fifty eight seconds to midnight, so

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Speaker 4: there's a minute and two seconds missing. Well, that set

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Speaker 4: up bread flags obviously, and there's also an aspect ratio change,

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Speaker 4: so the video kind of it's small and then it

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Speaker 4: gets a tiny bit bigger at the jump. So that

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Speaker 4: initiated an investigation from Wired magazine and they found that

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Speaker 4: actually three minutes are missing from this video and it

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Speaker 4: edited with something like twenty three times and saved over

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Speaker 4: a three hour period, and that kind of thing should

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Speaker 4: not be happening if and because the reason it's such

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Speaker 4: a big deal is the DJ said that this was

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Speaker 4: the raw footage. So if somebody says to me, raw footage,

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Speaker 4: I'm expecting an extraction from the surveillance system, unedited, uncut

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Speaker 4: on everything, That's what I'm expecting.

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Speaker 3: That's what it is. That's the term. Yeah, that is

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Speaker 3: exactly right.

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Speaker 4: Well, to give us some more insight, some expert insight

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Speaker 4: on this whole Jeffrey Epstein situation, we're bringing in Michael Bryant,

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Speaker 4: like Stephanie said, he is an Emmy Award winning legal

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Speaker 4: analyst and former trial attorney. You might have seen his

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Speaker 4: expert opinion on and commentary on LAWNG, Crime Court TV,

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Speaker 4: and his current streaming show Justice Served. Michael, Welcome so

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Speaker 4: much and thank you so much for being here. So

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Speaker 4: what do you think about all of this?

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Speaker 3: Yes, hi, Michael, we're so much.

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Speaker 6: Well, Hi, big guys. It's great to be which I

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Speaker 6: appreciate the in Bye. Here here's here's my in depth

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Speaker 6: legal analysis. First of just the video it's a joke.

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Speaker 6: I mean, come on, I don't know what's more embarrassing

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Speaker 6: the fact that they thought we would buy it, you know,

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Speaker 6: as is here it is, here's the row, or that

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Speaker 6: nobody would investigate the metadata. It just floors me that

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Speaker 6: they would think we're How stupid do they think we are?

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Speaker 6: By day? I mean the government, you think we're really stupid?

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Speaker 2: That the scariest part that they must just imagine us

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Speaker 2: to be such fools and lemmings in the most basic way.

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Speaker 2: I mean talk about not assuming that any of us

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Speaker 2: are sophisticated. I mean as a whole, which is I

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Speaker 2: think maybe you know the tip of the iceberg.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't know if it's naive or stupidity or arrogance.

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Speaker 6: You know, here we're the big bad government. We're going

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Speaker 6: to spoon feed you what we want and shut up

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Speaker 6: and we're moving on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I feel insulted, I feel gas lit, and it makes

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Speaker 4: me wonder, like what else they've been lying to us,

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Speaker 4: you know? And I'm not that person. I am not

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Speaker 4: a person that's like, we conspiracy. But this isn't even

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Speaker 4: a conspiracy. This is reality. This is actually happening. Right.

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Speaker 6: Here's the weird part because there could be absolutely nothing

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Speaker 6: to show and nothing to see here folks, right, that

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Speaker 6: could be the truth. But the fact that they give

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Speaker 6: us this massaged video of nothing, I mean, I'd rather

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Speaker 6: watch a painting and there's nothing there to be looking at.

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Speaker 6: And you mentioned the location of the cell. I'm going

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Speaker 6: to tell you, guys, the best reading you can do

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Speaker 6: is the one hundred and twenty two pages of the

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Speaker 6: Inspector General's report. It was done back in June of

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Speaker 6: twenty twenty three. The death was in twenty nineteen, very elaborate.

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Speaker 6: It has photos that for those who've seen the video

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Speaker 6: they can then put it together. Go oh okay, I

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Speaker 6: see that they have some diagrams. What they'll find is

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Speaker 6: from that platform, that second level that looks down into

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Speaker 6: that hole where the guards are across the other side

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Speaker 6: of the room. To the right, outside, far outside the

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Speaker 6: camera's eye is a short flight of stairs up to

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Speaker 6: the tier that actually has Epstein's cell. So you're seeing nothing.

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Speaker 6: We're seeing some people come and go, some blurs and

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Speaker 6: blogs coming and going. But it's useless. It's really useless.

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Speaker 6: You do see him the prior evening being walked back

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Speaker 6: to a cell. I think it's him. It's somebody with

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Speaker 6: gray hair. It could be my grandmother. I'm not sure,

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Speaker 6: but it's somebody being walked across the floor toward his cell.

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Speaker 6: Otherwise it's useless. But read that Inspector General report if

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Speaker 6: you really want some detail about the things that are

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Speaker 6: not visible from that right.

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Speaker 4: And I should note that that twenty twenty three report

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Speaker 4: that you're talking about, the dj I OIG report did

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Speaker 4: note that there were chronic camera failures at this facility,

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Speaker 4: including outages in the shoe area.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, right is shoe By the way, is the segregated

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Speaker 6: housing unit. It's full sound, but it's segregated housing unit.

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Speaker 6: I also could be Sacred Heart University, but it's not.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so here's a hoping.

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Speaker 6: So that's part of the deal with this, you know

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Speaker 6: this one minute or more that's missing. And Pam Bondi,

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Speaker 6: Attorney General Pam Bondi suggested, well, that's the way the

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Speaker 6: system worked. Let me get some older footage for you

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Speaker 6: to prove that's what happened. I mean, it sounds a

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Speaker 6: lot like the Karen Read case, which we may or

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Speaker 6: may not get into tonight, but oh we will.

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Speaker 3: Who are holding you hostage? Michael, buckle up.

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Speaker 6: We're gonna back to nineteen sixty eight. What kind of

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Speaker 6: equipment do you have that you know that it's so

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Speaker 6: beat up that you have to yell down the hallway

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Speaker 6: for a guy to bring another reel of videotape. Go on, Dad,

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Speaker 6: we need to change out that take nights. It's ridiculous

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Speaker 6: to suggest that, as a matter of course, the technology

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Speaker 6: required this one minute lapse in time.

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Speaker 7: Right.

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Speaker 6: But Michael, it may mean nothing, but it doesn't smell good.

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Speaker 5: No, it definitely doesn't. And listen, this is true crime tonight.

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Speaker 5: If you want to ask any questions to legal analyst

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Speaker 5: Michael Bryant, give us a call eighty eight three one crime.

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Speaker 5: My question is, Michael, you just mentioned how Pam BONDI said, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 5: it's the one minute lapse, and it happens every single night,

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Speaker 5: totally normal. And then you know, forty eight hours after

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Speaker 5: making that declarative statement, then obviously we learned it was

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Speaker 5: the extra three minutes. Do you think we'll even get

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Speaker 5: a further clarification or another step back or is it

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Speaker 5: just to be left alone.

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Speaker 3: At this point?

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Speaker 6: I doubt And to be honest, if I were in

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Speaker 6: their position, I'm glad I'm not, But if I was

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Speaker 6: in their position, I would be moving on. They're going

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Speaker 6: to get peppered with more questions and they can come

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Speaker 6: up with whatever answer they want, But I don't think

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Speaker 6: we're ever going to get anything definitive that'll be satisfying. Well,

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Speaker 6: I wonder government.

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Speaker 4: Is it possible that's one of the reasons they got

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Speaker 4: rid of Comy Mare and Kmy more in Kmy like

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Speaker 4: people are talking about that now instead of the video

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Speaker 4: and no clients.

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Speaker 6: Hard to tell, and to be honest, that yeah, don't

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Speaker 6: get me into that list thing. It's hard to tell

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Speaker 6: if that issue is directly related to this, because you know,

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Speaker 6: I'd have to know more about her history because they

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Speaker 6: have been gutting the agency of various difference to you know,

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Speaker 6: January sixth, and a number of other matters. So it

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Speaker 6: would have surprised me if it was related to this note.

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Speaker 6: But I just don't know for.

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Speaker 2: Sure, right like my Spidey sense, it's Steph, my spidy sense,

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Speaker 2: just reading from the top line, because this actually just broke,

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Speaker 2: you know, so recently before we started this show. Is

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Speaker 2: that Maureen Comy, who was you know, also was really

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Speaker 2: trying to get justice against you know, Sean Diddy Combs.

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Speaker 2: Also now this Epstein of long ago Geelane Maxwell Epstein's

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Speaker 2: you know air quotes right hand woman. You know, she

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Speaker 2: has been trying to get some hearings on the book

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Speaker 2: she wants to get released. You know, if there is

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Speaker 2: no client list, why is she behind bars? Does the

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Speaker 2: absence of Maureen Comy influence that in any way?

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Speaker 6: No, I don't think it means the thing. I think

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Speaker 6: she has a loser of a case anyway. She's trying

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Speaker 6: to get the Supreme Court to review her case. And

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Speaker 6: her argument is way back in two thousand and eight

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Speaker 6: in Southern Florida in federal court there, they gave Jeffrey

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Speaker 6: Epstein to pass, gave him the lightest possible sentence you

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Speaker 6: could get. And the deal included protection for any quote

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Speaker 6: co conspirators, So she's relying on that. But the fact

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Speaker 6: is Southern District in Florida is not going to do

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Speaker 6: anything to the district in New York. You don't get

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Speaker 6: to control the rest of the country from one district

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Speaker 6: with that agreement. And that's what's been failing as she's appealed,

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Speaker 6: appealed to appealed, And I don't even think the Supreme

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Speaker 6: Court is going to look at it. I guess how

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Speaker 6: many cases the Supreme Court is requested to look at

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Speaker 6: every year? Just pick a number. Come in.

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Speaker 4: Five thousand. Oh, I meant that they actually look at my.

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Speaker 6: Okay, okay, I'll give you a reset on that. So

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Speaker 6: five thousand are dumped on them to say, here, take

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Speaker 6: a look at this. How many do you think they

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Speaker 6: look at a five thousand a year? Give or ten

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Speaker 6: about one hundred round number. So that's some horrible odds.

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Speaker 6: They only are They only do two things at the

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Speaker 6: Supreme Court level. They decide issues that are in conflict

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Speaker 6: with different states. It's different jurisdictions, right. They need to

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Speaker 6: straighten things out and make a rule that everybody follows

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Speaker 6: or it's something of first impression. I guarantee a non

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Speaker 6: prosecution agreement from one district court being imposed or attempted

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Speaker 6: to be imposed in another is nothing new and exciting

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Speaker 6: to the Supreme Court. So this would be shocked if

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Speaker 6: they even look at it.

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Speaker 4: So this non prosecution agreement, that is the we won't

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Speaker 4: prosecute any of your co conspirators. That's that agreement, right, correct, Okay, correct?

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Speaker 6: I do want to make sure the same crimes, the

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Speaker 6: crimes in Florida, these are crimes in New York, different district,

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Speaker 6: different crimes. It's it's a loser, but I think I

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Speaker 6: applaud the zealous representation.

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Speaker 3: Of course.

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Speaker 4: Of course, so she didn't have a habeas corpus route

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Speaker 4: to go down.

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Speaker 6: Well, yeah, that's what she's been relying on. Is and now,

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Speaker 6: of course there is some coincidental connection to wait, there's

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Speaker 6: no list, Well, there's no list, how can I have

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Speaker 6: been convicted? Well, you don't have to have more than

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Speaker 6: one person to be convicted of transporting people across state

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Speaker 6: lines for prostitution minors, because they listed Jeffrey Edstein as

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Speaker 6: the recipient, right, Well, he's the recipient, then it doesn't

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Speaker 6: matter if there's no other people.

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Speaker 5: Oh man, thank you so much for that clarity. Listen,

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Speaker 5: keep it here. We have more with Michael Brian on Epstein.

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Speaker 5: We're going into Karen Reid Keep It Here, a true

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Speaker 5: crime tonight.

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Speaker 8: We're talking true crime all the time. We also have

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Speaker 8: a very special guest with us. He's by proxy KT Family.

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Speaker 2: Lisa Bryant, your lovely, incredibly smart wife, was joined you know,

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Speaker 2: joined us on Sunday to talk about Epstein. We're dying

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Speaker 2: to know what happens at the dinner table with you guys,

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Speaker 2: because it must be all crime, all the time. So

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Speaker 2: we're so happy to have you here. We're so happy

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Speaker 2: to have you back with us. And again you're a

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Speaker 2: legal analyst and also trial attorney and post of your

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Speaker 2: own show. So we're talking about seen in some of

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Speaker 2: these shenanigans that are happening right now. And of course

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Speaker 2: this Maureen Comy park Court. I know you had a

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Speaker 2: question first up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I have a question.

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Speaker 5: Actually it goes to the autopsy and what happened there.

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Speaker 5: This was a big topic that we had a lot

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Speaker 5: of callers call in yet last night and we were

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Speaker 5: hoping maybe for some clarity and our understanding is you

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Speaker 5: have kind of a unique connection because your co host

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Speaker 5: is Linda Kennedy Baden and her husband's doctor Baden, the

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Speaker 5: pathologist who we've all seen on TV. Do you have

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Speaker 5: any insight into he thinks about the autopsy.

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Speaker 6: Well, we know that he decided that in his opinion,

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Speaker 6: it wasn't suicide. And you know, I also educated both

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Speaker 6: by him, and I've known him for years, even before Linda,

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Speaker 6: his wife, became my co host, back in the day

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Speaker 6: when I worked at Extra and when I was at

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Speaker 6: Core TV. You know, anytime somebody was murdered when I

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Speaker 6: was an Extra, you know that hard hitting news program anytimes.

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Speaker 3: Don't knock it. I watch every I watched you on it,

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Speaker 3: that's the one.

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Speaker 6: But you know, anytime somebody died, let's get Bryan on that.

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Speaker 6: So I got a lot of experience with him and

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Speaker 6: with Cyril Weck, who was you know, kind of his colleague.

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Speaker 6: He just passed away at nineteen three a few months ago,

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Speaker 6: and so I always respected new Michael Boden, and so

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Speaker 6: you know he did the JFK review of that autopsy.

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Speaker 6: The guy's been around twenty thousand autopsies. So Mark Epstein,

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Speaker 6: who we interviewed the other night on TV. You can

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Speaker 6: see that on our YouTube channel. Sorry for the poor.

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Speaker 3: More and more and more.

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Speaker 6: Okay, so yeah, you guys will look it up in

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Speaker 6: the library. Fascinating interview and we'll get in some of

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Speaker 6: the details he told us. But that was the connection

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Speaker 6: because the family of Jeffrey Epstein, and that's really Mark

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Speaker 6: reached out to doctor Boden said hey, we want somebody

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Speaker 6: on our side watching this. So he attended the autopsy

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Speaker 6: so he was able. It wasn't just a lot of

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Speaker 6: times the forensic pathologists will look at photos, read reports

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Speaker 6: and you know, come up with an opinion that they

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Speaker 6: exec in court as a result. But when you're actually

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Speaker 6: in the room, it really adds, you know, some credibility

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Speaker 6: to the opinion. There's that, I'm sure everybody's learned the

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Speaker 6: anatomy now the neck better than they ever thought they'd

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Speaker 6: need to. There's the hyoid bone, which is that bone

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Speaker 6: that's kind of in the atoms apple regions, which virtually

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Speaker 6: all pathologists will tell you is not normally broken in

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Speaker 6: two places, especially as a result of hanging. It's normally

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Speaker 6: by strangulation. So I mean, in a nutshell, that's his conclusion,

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Speaker 6: and there's lots of others. There's petiquia in the eye,

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Speaker 6: which is little broken blood vessels. Those generally happen, again

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Speaker 6: from strangulation, not from hanging. And remember this, if it

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Speaker 6: was a hanging, was what's called an incomplete hanging. That

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Speaker 6: means you're not dangling from a rope off something ceiling.

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Speaker 6: You know, your feet are not touching the ground. You

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Speaker 6: are kind of leaning into the ligature, which is a

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Speaker 6: very different kind of hanging and less violent certainly, and

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Speaker 6: it has different characteristics. So all of those things together

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Speaker 6: told this guy who's done this before that no, this

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Speaker 6: was homicide, not suicide.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: I mean it seems like we keep hearing that time

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Speaker 2: and time and time again, which again goes back to

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Speaker 2: the initial thought of we're feeling sort of gas lit

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Speaker 2: in a little bit misled. Whether there is a client

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Speaker 2: list or there's not a client list. The lack of

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Speaker 2: transparency has just gotten under everybody's you know, under everybody's

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Speaker 2: skin in a very meaningful way.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's insulting, and I don't think we need to

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Speaker 6: get hung up on the list, you know, like, oh here, here,

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Speaker 6: I have it in my hand. Can you hear that?

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Speaker 6: I have in my hand the list. It says, you know,

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Speaker 6: Jeffrey Ebstein's lists of very bad men. Yes, I mean

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Speaker 6: that's not the list, you know, it's cording some memorialization

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Speaker 6: somewhere in digital form, whatever it may be. There's something

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Speaker 6: I know people talk about the flight logs, and that's

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Speaker 6: certainly some evidence of people going to, oh, we just.

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Speaker 2: Cut off a little bit, but we have a talk back.

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Speaker 2: We should go to that right now.

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Speaker 9: Well, what I find the most frustrating right now currently

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Speaker 9: about the stuff is now being told by this administration

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Speaker 9: that they're saying, why are we still talking about it?

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Speaker 10: This is so old?

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Speaker 3: This just needs to go away?

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Speaker 9: And that just makes me feel even more guess lit,

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Speaker 9: how can we say that something of this magnitude and

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Speaker 9: trafficking women all across the world is just no big deal,

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Speaker 9: nothing to see here, Let's move along. Why are we

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Speaker 9: still talking about it?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and this is something that a lot of people

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Speaker 4: think won a presidency, So this is not just you know,

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Speaker 4: something that we're being told to ignore now. And people

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Speaker 4: ran on this and I think you know, Donald Trump's

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Speaker 4: base is rightfully upset with him about this. And again,

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Speaker 4: presidencies are won and lost on things like this, and

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Speaker 4: they made such a big deal about this for what

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Speaker 4: the last five six year years, and now we're being told, eh,

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Speaker 4: it was a hoax, Like what, yeah, that's a hoping.

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Speaker 4: What else is a hoax?

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Speaker 6: Right?

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Speaker 2: So I guess that's the problem. The lie on top,

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Speaker 2: the lie on top, So the lie only makes it harder.

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Speaker 4: And the more they dig their heels into our talkback point,

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Speaker 4: the more I get angry, like, what do you mean?

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Speaker 3: It's very upsetting. So I completely agree. We have another

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Speaker 3: talkback right after.

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Speaker 10: Oh another word, Hello, this is Emil. And again I'm

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Speaker 10: curious what the protocol is when there's a suspected suicide

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Speaker 10: in prison or deaths in general. Because I know there's

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Speaker 10: protocol to try to avoid those things. What is the

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Speaker 10: protocol for when it happens. Is there pictures that are

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Speaker 10: taken of the scene, Does an emmy come out to

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Speaker 10: the scene. I'm curious about a lot of this with Epstein, such.

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Speaker 2: A great question. You know, I think we temporarily lost Michael.

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Speaker 2: He'll be joining us very shortly to probably weigh in

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Speaker 2: on some of this. Court's giving me the thumbs up.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Michael, we were debating this very question ourselves and

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Speaker 5: had no answer any inside information of it of if

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Speaker 5: an emmy actually came or if any prime scene photos

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Speaker 5: were take in with the actual body.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, there definitely were crime scene photos taken and they

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Speaker 6: looked kind of stagy. And I'm assuming that I was

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Speaker 6: my call was dropped from some government interference. That's my second. Yes,

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Speaker 6: me so. And these are some of the questions that

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Speaker 6: Mark Epstein had because he was told that there was

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Speaker 6: video of not just the cell, but of transporting Jeffrey

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Speaker 6: Epstein on a gurney from the cell to the infirmary

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Speaker 6: where the emmy ultimately body and began that process. So

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Speaker 6: he's asking, where is that? Why can't I have that footage?

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Speaker 6: There also was this story about how, remember they found

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Speaker 6: his body six thirty ish that morning, they were he

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Speaker 6: was still alive for a number of hours until I

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Speaker 6: guess maybe they got the story straight that they wanted

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Speaker 6: to tell. So what was that about? Who was in

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Speaker 6: the infirmary? Just give us, you know, the names, give

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Speaker 6: us talk about a list. Give us the names of

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Speaker 6: people that were in the infirmary. And what about there

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Speaker 6: were fourteen other detainees or inmates on that tier. Who

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Speaker 6: were they? And did you get statements from them? We

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Speaker 6: know that in that inspector General report there were a

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Speaker 6: couple of the inmates that did give statements. They were anonymous.

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Speaker 6: The two of them said very interesting things. We learned

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Speaker 6: that the guards were they're surfing the way, ever, sleeping,

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Speaker 6: not doing their job, and nobody did a walk around

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Speaker 6: after ten thirty. Two of these inmates said they saw

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Speaker 6: somebody on the tier at between twelve thirty and one

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Speaker 6: that is totally unidentified and could not have been the

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Speaker 6: guards who admit they didn't do their job. And if

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Speaker 6: you see that video, there's one point where there's somebody

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Speaker 6: in a hoodie that's on that tier that over Yeah,

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Speaker 6: hoodie guy. So they're just those kinds of questions make

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Speaker 6: you just wonder who's hiding what. And again, might be

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Speaker 6: perfectly innocent and just inept, but human beings are suspicious,

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Speaker 6: true crime. Human beings are really suspicious.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that is the truth.

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Speaker 5: I have actually a quick follow up, Michael, this is Courtney.

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Speaker 5: I'm not sure if I understood you correctly. Did you

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Speaker 5: say that Jeffrey Epstein was alive for X amount of

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Speaker 5: hours or did I misunderstand?

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Speaker 6: No, that's what we were led to believe that there

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Speaker 6: was a period of time when it's clear. Now we

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Speaker 6: know that he was dead when they found him, but

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Speaker 6: there was some early reporting still alive, and it was

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Speaker 6: hours later before he passed away in the infirmary. I

434
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 6: don't know why they would do that. Why were his

435
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 6: clothes changed? Why was he not in his jail clothes.

436
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 6: He was in some sort of like pajamas or something,

437
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:39,160
Speaker 6: a hospital going He.

438
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,680
Speaker 2: Was like in that weird hospital outfit. Yeah, like, why

439
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 2: was that? Who changed his clothes?

440
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, who's a dead body and you're changing his clothes?

441
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,879
Speaker 6: Because why? There's too many of those things that make

442
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 6: people who are far smarter than me wonder who's hiding what?

443
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,119
Speaker 6: And maybe it is at the highest levels, you know.

444
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 6: I know you guys were talking about the Trump effect,

445
00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 6: and I think he's an idiot for continuing to talk

446
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,400
Speaker 6: about it. You know, it's you know, the Barber streisand

447
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,479
Speaker 6: effect where she complained about people flying drones over her

448
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 6: house and guess what people started doing flying drones over

449
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 6: her ass. So you know, by his continuing to talk

450
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 6: about it, from his perspective, it ain't going away. It's

451
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 6: not the right thing to do.

452
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally fair and I know, listen, you're also obviously

453
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 2: such a big expert on the Karen Reid developments too,

454
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 2: so we don't want to jump around too too much.

455
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 2: But we are hoping you're staying with us because we

456
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,199
Speaker 2: obviously want to be talking a lot about that as well.

457
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 2: That's another case that's got us all.

458
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,679
Speaker 3: You know, we're all spun up about the Karen Reid case. Twos.

459
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,719
Speaker 3: Oh you know, where do we go from there? Body?

460
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, there's a lot to go into with

461
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 4: Karen Reid. I don't know if we can get into

462
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 4: it before the commercial.

463
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,440
Speaker 3: But the reason teaser?

464
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 6: Do you have a teaser?

465
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,119
Speaker 4: Let's do a teaser. What do you know about this

466
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 4: federal grand jury? The juror pleading guilty to talking to somebody.

467
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:53,919
Speaker 4: Do you know anything about this?

468
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,119
Speaker 6: Yeah, so we do know that she was on the

469
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 6: grand jury at about the time they were looking into

470
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 6: the Karen Reid case. So remember this is a woman,

471
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 6: she's now she never got indeted. It was on an

472
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 6: information that she pled guilty to disseminating information about witnesses

473
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 6: or evidence or both that came before the grand jury.

474
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 6: And obviously that's not a good thing. And as she's

475
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 6: taking this plea deal. She's only accused until the plea

476
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 6: deal is accepted and to clap on the risk plea deal.

477
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 6: So we're trying to figure out what that means. The

478
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 6: question is, was she involved in the Karen Reid case's

479
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 6: decision making.

480
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 4: Well, let's stay tuned for that. This is True Crime

481
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 4: Tonight on iHeartRadio. I'm body movin and we're going to

482
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 4: be back with Michael Bryant on how the Karen readcase

483
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 4: is sparking larger conversations around.

484
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 3: The First Amendment.

485
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 4: Stay right here a True Crime Tonight where we're talking

486
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 4: true crime all the time.

487
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 3: It's kind of explosive right now.

488
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,440
Speaker 2: Our minds are getting blown by, of course Michael Bryant,

489
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 2: who is also a former trial attorney, and you know

490
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 2: he has been weighing in on some of these big cases,

491
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 2: Epstein being one of them, and also now Karen Reid. Michael,

492
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 2: welcome back. Thank you for sticking with us, because again

493
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 2: we have so much to get.

494
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 4: Too and we are obsessed with you, by the way, Yes,

495
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 4: thank you so much.

496
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 3: I wish you could hear us during the break. Thank

497
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 3: you for bringing all this down immediately.

498
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 4: Oh no necessary, Hey, it's my First Amendment right to

499
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 4: be obsessed with you.

500
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 6: Okay, I'm big on the first Amendment.

501
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 3: I know we're going to get into that a little bit.

502
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,919
Speaker 4: So I'm going to just give a brief overview of

503
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 4: Turtle Boy just very quickly. So Turtle Boy is a

504
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 4: independent like journalist, like kind of like boots on the

505
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 4: ground guy who's basically started ringing the alarm bells about

506
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 4: the possible corruption in Canton, Massachusetts in regards to the

507
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 4: Karen Reid case. And in doing so, he basically he's

508
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 4: being charged, by the way, and I should add real

509
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 4: quick that he's plugged, not guilty to these charges. He's

510
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 4: being charged with a couple felonies, and they're pretty serious, right,

511
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 4: Witness intimidation, bail violations, violating a restraining order, which I

512
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 4: believe he got acquitted of. Those charges have been dropped,

513
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,239
Speaker 4: I believe, and please correct me if I'm wrong. And

514
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 4: because he was basically harassing witnesses and intimidating witnesses and

515
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 4: he's so he's in some hot water. He just got

516
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 4: two additional charges and was in court I think on

517
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 4: July seventh of last week. So Turtle Boy is in

518
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 4: some hot water, But again he is pleading not guilty.

519
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:32,640
Speaker 4: He says he's not guilty of any of these things,

520
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 4: and he's staunchly defending himself. Well, just recently online he's

521
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 4: been kind of being accused by you know, social media

522
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,360
Speaker 4: people who are you know, anti Karen Reid, of being

523
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:47,479
Speaker 4: involved with this grand juror who was leaking information from

524
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,199
Speaker 4: the grand jury to someone. Now officially we don't know

525
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 4: who that someone is, and Turtle Boy is vehemently denying

526
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 4: that he's that person. So it's want of in defense

527
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 4: of him, I want to say that he is vehemently

528
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:03,400
Speaker 4: denying these these allec What do you think about all this, Michael.

529
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's been quite an adventure for him and for

530
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,199
Speaker 6: what he's done for the case. Aiden Carney which is

531
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 6: Turtle Boy's name, And I was up at that hearing

532
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 6: on the seventh, which was another journey through the circus

533
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 6: that is I call it the triangle of terror up

534
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 6: there Stoughton, Adam and Canton. It is just scary all

535
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 6: and the cops overlap the different jurisdictions and they're all

536
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 6: kind of they got issues on edge to Aiden. Yeah,

537
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 6: oh yeah. And for Aiden, you know, he came along

538
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 6: and started he's more like a gonzo kind of journalist,

539
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 6: Hunter S. Thompson, getting your face kind of So he

540
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 6: was going to people he felt were involved when he

541
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 6: started learning more about the case, and you know, confronting them, Hey,

542
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 6: you were involved with death with Karen Reid, weren't you?

543
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 6: And so they have a statue in Massachusetts. You know,

544
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 6: it's wrong to intimidate witnesses anywhere, not suggesting people should,

545
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 6: but generally you can't threaten them physically. You can't threaten

546
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 6: them financially, like I'm gonna ruin you early. But in

547
00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:00,479
Speaker 6: Massachusetts they've added emotional injury as an injury, and it's

548
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 6: it's based on the subject. So it's based on what

549
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 6: I think. So if you say something and my feelings

550
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 6: get hurt and that's my opinion, Hey there are my feelings,

551
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,679
Speaker 6: I can ask them to bring a charge against you

552
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,439
Speaker 6: for oh my gosh. So that is the thrust of

553
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 6: most of these charges seventeen. Originally he was just arraigned

554
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 6: on the just last week, the seventeenth charge, and I

555
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 6: happened to be in town that night when that happened.

556
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 6: It was an incident outside the dn E Pizza which

557
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 6: is owned by Brian Albert, Brian Chris Albert, the Alberton family.

558
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 6: I don't know if you've heard the phrase Mick Alberts,

559
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 6: which is Malcolm of Jen McCabe and Matthew McCabe and

560
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 6: then all these all these Alberts. So it was a

561
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 6: nothing thing. He was goofing around outside their pizza place,

562
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 6: and they had cameras and anyway, that was the seventeenth charge.

563
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 3: I've seen that video, right, yeah, oh yeah.

564
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 6: It's just him and another guy named Will just goofing

565
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 6: around and Will I was broadcasting live.

566
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 4: Well to be fair, called the murderers. Yeah, yeah, I

567
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 4: mean joking around. Yeah, but you're accusing somebody of murdering somebody.

568
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 6: Sure, not nice? Nice things?

569
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 3: Not nice?

570
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 6: I don't know, right, of course, of course it is.

571
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 6: You know, you can say it's defamation. That might be,

572
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 6: but that's not a criminal charge.

573
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 4: No, I agree, it's civil, right, I.

574
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 6: Totally agree, So you know, get over yourself. He also

575
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 6: was charged because he told people to tell the truth.

576
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 6: He was yelling at them when they went into a hearing,

577
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 6: tell the truth. That's intimidation right anyway, So well.

578
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 4: He's also being they're saying that he riled people up

579
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 4: to intimidate them too.

580
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 2: But again, had he not riled people up, Turtle Boy himself,

581
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 2: had he not done that, agree, Karen Reid would still

582
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 2: be sitting behind bars as we speak, potentially for life.

583
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 6: It's very possible, you know. And now he's the one.

584
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 6: He's looking at one hundred and five years.

585
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I didn't know.

586
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,239
Speaker 6: Doubt. I think the judge, Judge Doolan, who is now

587
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 6: handling this has I won't use the word that I

588
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 6: use on our show, but he realizes his first degree stupidity.

589
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 6: I use a different word, but I think he sees

590
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 6: that the charges are less than solid and so we'll

591
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 6: see how it plays out. There's another hearing up there

592
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 6: in another week or so, go up for that as well. So, yeah,

593
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 6: he's got his own issues and now the bullseye from

594
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 6: the Commonwealth has been trained on him.

595
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 4: Can you explain what the illegal wiretapping is about that

596
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 4: he's been charged with.

597
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 6: Well, it has to do with some of the phone

598
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 6: calls that he recorded.

599
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 3: Oh okay, that is silly.

600
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, And there's also remember in a one party state

601
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 6: is maybe more than people care about, but it's really

602
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 6: kind of important in a one party state, and that

603
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 6: would be like New York or Nevada. And I say

604
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 6: this because when I was at Extra, I did a

605
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 6: lot of undercover stuff. You know, one party state. I

606
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 6: don't need anybody's approval if I say it's okay to

607
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 6: record you and not tell you that's okay, because I

608
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 6: am the one party and I'm saying it's okay is

609
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 6: important for me. There you go, yeah, And we did

610
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 6: a lot of undercover stuff there. And there's you know,

611
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 6: California and many other states. Most states, including Massachusetts, there

612
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 6: are two party states. Which means unless you advise the

613
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 6: person that you're recording that you are recording and get

614
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 6: their approval, that's illegal wired tapping. So that's connected to

615
00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 6: the pizza place where they have cameras at the pizza place,

616
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 6: some of them record audio. So this allegation of wiretapping

617
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 6: goes both ways. The pizza owners and others that have

618
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 6: been recorded without quote without their permission.

619
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 4: So that's ceasing really overbroad in kind of an overreach

620
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 4: to charging with wire trapping for a CCTV camera.

621
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 6: The whole pile of charges, they really are ridiculous. When

622
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 6: I went into this, I was at Long Crime at

623
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 6: the time of the first trial, started learning about this.

624
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 6: I heard about this guy, Turtle Boy, and I'm like,

625
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 6: I'm not going down that hole. I don't care about

626
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 6: some social media guy. And then I started learning more

627
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 6: and more about it. At the same time, I'm learning

628
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 6: about solo cups and leaf blowers collecting evidence, like, oh,

629
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:43,959
Speaker 6: what's going on here? And so as I learned more

630
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 6: about the Karen Read case, I learned more about his

631
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 6: connection and the fact that he really brought it to

632
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 6: the public's attention. And on the day of the verdict,

633
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:53,719
Speaker 6: I'd like to take a touch of credit for this,

634
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 6: but on the day of the verdict, the fact that

635
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 6: place was packed with people is because he began the

636
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 6: process two years earlier. They were there because I and

637
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 6: a couple of other folks sued the massachusettsts Police for

638
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 6: violating our First Amendment rights by creating this buffer zone.

639
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 6: And the first few days it was a ghost town

640
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:13,719
Speaker 6: until we won in court and they had people had

641
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 6: to be two hundred feet on either side of the courthouse.

642
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 6: It was a joke and I was accosted by a

643
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 6: Massachusetts policeman and we filed the lawsuit as a result,

644
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 6: and we ultimately won and it was about a week

645
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 6: or so before the verdict. So for that last week

646
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 6: things kind of got a little more supportive for Karen.

647
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 6: I'll put that right.

648
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 4: So, is Turtle Boy's First Amendment basically being violated then?

649
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 6: Because he I mean, is that there he's a journalist, right?

650
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 6: You know, some folks have, you know, kind of an

651
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 6: old school definition for journalism. You know, if you don't

652
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 6: have a you know, like a fedora on with the

653
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 6: press card at the brim, you know you're not prep

654
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm a little tech you about that because

655
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 6: all the stuff I've done and I couldn't get a

656
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 6: press credential from Boston to do the Karen Read case.

657
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 6: Oh you're killing No, I'm just ridiculous. And then some

658
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 6: of the people that did it, I'm like, really, I

659
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 6: know this.

660
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 4: Is a criminal case, but there's no like anti slap

661
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 4: or you know, slap is strategic litigation against public participation

662
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 4: for those that don't know. So, is there any kind

663
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 4: of slap defense that Turtle Boy can bring up anything

664
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 4: like that.

665
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 3: That would help him?

666
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 7: Not?

667
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 6: Really, it's I think the First Amendment and any sort

668
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 6: of another thing they don't have in Massachusetts. They don't

669
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,239
Speaker 6: have a shield law there, so you know, reporters are

670
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 6: kind of more dangling. A shield law for those who

671
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 6: may know is very specific protection against journalists to identify sources.

672
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 6: They don't have to do that. There's no such law

673
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 6: in Massachusetts. It's whatever the court thinks at a given time,

674
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 6: and so that makes it a little more dangerous for

675
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 6: journalists because they can go to jail more easily. So

676
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 6: I think he's relying primarily on the First Amendment because

677
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 6: it's pretty solid footing.

678
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, it stood for the test of time. So yeah,

679
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 4: that is the best argument to make. I just wasn't

680
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 4: sure if he could invoke the strategic law in his favor.

681
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 3: I wasn't sure, but I know that's normally a civil thing. Yeah.

682
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 2: We're also so curious with the latest with the what

683
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 2: did you call them, the mcabes, mcalts, the mcalberts, the

684
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 2: mcal You know, there's been such you know, conversation about

685
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 2: them post to the verdict. Have there been any developments

686
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 2: on that front that you're aware of.

687
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 6: No, not yet. You know, this theory about the grandeur,

688
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 6: you know, maybe there's some connection there, maybe there's some

689
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 6: something to spiral out out of that. Well, the thing is,

690
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 6: you know, they gave her she was sentenced or will

691
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:29,879
Speaker 6: be when she takes the plea deal to one day

692
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 6: one day time, served, one hundred dollars administrative fee, and

693
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 6: two years of supervised probation, far less than what you

694
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 6: could get. So I'm thinking, why do they even bring

695
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 6: that up to give her a slap on the wrist. Well,

696
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 6: maybe it's because she's got some deal. Maybe there's something

697
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 6: working in the background that may involve others that we

698
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 6: hear so much about, but nothing has happened. Just don't know.

699
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 6: It's premature. We just don't know yet.

700
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 3: And that's what everybody's speculating.

701
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 4: Everybody's saying she's got some kind of deal to work

702
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 4: with the investigators. On what side, We don't know, but

703
00:34:58,120 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 4: it's very interesting.

704
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, definitely something that we're all going to be following.

705
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 5: It's so I know, it just happened to think yesterday

706
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 5: and cannot.

707
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 6: Wait, and it's happened so fast. I mean, she was

708
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 6: on the grand jury up until March of twenty twenty threes.

709
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 6: I think she began on there in August twenty two,

710
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 6: so she was right there in the heart of the

711
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 6: Karen Reid case. Again. We don't know for sure that

712
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 6: this is related, but the things are starting to kind

713
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 6: of line up.

714
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, something to watch and listen. Everyone needs to be

715
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 5: watching you, Michael. Everyone should be catching currently streaming show

716
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 5: Justice Serve TV with our award winning legal analyst former

717
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 5: trial attorney Michael Bryant.

718
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 3: You have been so great.

719
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:41,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, pleasure.

720
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 3: And love to your wife. We love her very very much.

721
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 3: So again, you guys are a dynamic duo.

722
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 5: I'll set up with her for a little bit longer, honestly,

723
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 5: hopefully you'll come back. We'll talk more inside Jury Duty

724
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 5: Grand Jury.

725
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 2: Thank you again to Michael Bryant for joining us earlier

726
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 2: in the show. If you've missed any of the show,

727
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:01,879
Speaker 2: by the way.

728
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 3: It's all good.

729
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 2: You can catch us right after as a podcast. And

730
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 2: we also want to keep hearing from you, so call

731
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 2: us at eight eight eight three one Crime, or you

732
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 2: could always leave us a talk back by downloading the app,

733
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 2: pushing the right hand corner button and boom you're on

734
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 2: the show. Speaking of which, we have a talkback right now.

735
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 9: Hey, ladies, love the show. I listen every day since

736
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,760
Speaker 9: the beginning. I just want to say on the Epstein stuff.

737
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 9: I've been following it for several years. You know, with Biden,

738
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,839
Speaker 9: he never interjected himself with DJ stuff. You really try

739
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 9: to remain impartial. So I kind of understand that backlash there.

740
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 9: But with Trump, I mean he ran on it. He

741
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 9: interjected himself with a partner with Bonnie to release this thing.

742
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 9: But my question is, do we think that Maxwell is

743
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 9: still on suicide wash it, especially with all this picking up?

744
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 9: I hope, so, Hi, this is Kim again. I looked

745
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 9: it up and yes, that we deal was originally in

746
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 9: two thousand and eight for Epstein. So if Galamb participated

747
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 9: in any of this poor behavior after two thousand and night,

748
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 9: then she is indeed guilty and woe indeed need to

749
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:08,320
Speaker 9: stay in prison.

750
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 11: Right?

751
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 3: How smart are ore?

752
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 4: I know?

753
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 2: Crime crewers here, I thank you so much for those talkbacks.

754
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 2: They were like back to back episodes of greatness, and

755
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 2: they were so start first, go ahead.

756
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 4: The first one spoke about Gallaine being on suicide Watch,

757
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 4: and I understand she was on suicide Watch in twenty

758
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 4: twenty twenty two, and I just found a photo of

759
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,439
Speaker 4: her from July tenth of this year, so just what

760
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 4: six seven days ago and she's out in the yard

761
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,839
Speaker 4: at the prison, so she can't so she's not on

762
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 4: suicide watch.

763
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 3: No, she's getting exercise.

764
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 4: In fact, she was getting exercised, so she's not currently

765
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 4: on suicide watch. But her family says she's pretty despondent

766
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 4: because she does believe she did not get a fair deal.

767
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 4: So but again that's you know who knows.

768
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 3: Says it, every inmate behind bars.

769
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,879
Speaker 2: I was just gonna say, everybody says that, right, Yeah,

770
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 2: I have an idea. How about you don't aid in

771
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 2: a bet this second trafficking of underage girls or any

772
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 2: girls for that.

773
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 3: Matter, Yeah, how about that? Then you don't need to

774
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 3: worry about it. And then the second talk back, I'm sorry, Courtney,

775
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 3: did you want to say.

776
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 5: Oh, I was gonna say a not just aid to

777
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:16,280
Speaker 5: help out, totally participate in and she was a participant absolutely,

778
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,760
Speaker 5: and she was even in some cases the soul abuser

779
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 5: of some victims.

780
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:23,399
Speaker 3: So in any case, and.

781
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 4: Then the second talkback was talking about the non prosecution agreement,

782
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 4: and of course the Florida ruled that Ebstein has plea

783
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 4: they would not prosecute anybody that was affiliated. But as

784
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 4: we just learned, it doesn't apply to the District Court

785
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 4: in New York from our wonderful friend. That was just

786
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 4: on Michael Bryant, the attorney formal triantal attorney, amazing expert

787
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 4: that knows the stuff way better than us, right, and

788
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 4: he just said it doesn't apply, so that that argument,

789
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 4: according to him, with the Supreme Court is moot and

790
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 4: she won't have an abas corpus route to go.

791
00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 3: We'll see always forget.

792
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 2: I don't know abeas corpus means, is anyone to have

793
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 2: like the layman's version of that.

794
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 4: I'm going to pull it up right now so it's useful.

795
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 4: In fact, the Menenta's brothers are using hypeous cord.

796
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,359
Speaker 2: Yes, we're mailing it up right now because I use

797
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 2: that word and I don't exactly know what it means,

798
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,439
Speaker 2: and I want to make sure that I don't ever

799
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 2: do that.

800
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 5: It literally means like of the body or you what

801
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 5: is it you have the body?

802
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 3: I can't even spell it.

803
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm sorry everybody, but I could just if I

804
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 2: don't be.

805
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 3: Sure I'm not the only one.

806
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 5: But basically what it says is you shouldn't have my

807
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 5: I shouldn't be in detention.

808
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 3: Right my body is being unlofty held cat.

809
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 2: That's correct, what goes to market. But are you two lawyers?

810
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 2: It is the Latin term meeting of quote. You shall

811
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 2: have the body end quote.

812
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 4: Very good, all right, So you're detaining me illegally my body.

813
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 4: I don't want to be here. If I have autonomy

814
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 4: over my body, I should not be here.

815
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 3: Fair enough, and listen, we're gonna come right back because

816
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 3: we also.

817
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 2: Want to get to Luigi. Also this alleged parent killer.

818
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 2: We're talking true time tonight. It's been kind of an

819
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,479
Speaker 2: explosive night so far, talking a lot of things about

820
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 2: Epstein and of course Karen Reid. So if you've missed

821
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 2: any of the show, no worries, just catch us right

822
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,240
Speaker 2: after as a podcast. But the phones have been ringing

823
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 2: and the talkbacks have been coming, so please join the conversation.

824
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 2: Eight eight eight three one Crime again eight eight eight

825
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 2: three one Crime. Later in the show, we're also a

826
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 2: little bit of an update on Luigi behind bars in

827
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 2: New York. We're getting some details from his former cellmate,

828
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 2: and also this insane story of this young girl who's

829
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 2: now been accused of killing her mother and her stepfather.

830
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 2: So we're going to start unpacking that as well, but

831
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 2: first we have a talkback. A.

832
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 12: Hi, this is Sarah that left the talk back about

833
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 12: grooming and Audie. No, I don't disagree with you. I

834
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 12: think you're right. I think that miners should have their

835
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 12: own designated term for it. I'm just wondering if maybe

836
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 12: that means we need to add a new term something

837
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,439
Speaker 12: that all of these other things fall under that really

838
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 12: they're downright brainwashing of vulnerable people.

839
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 11: Right, yeah, hello ladies, my name's Amanda. And on the

840
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 11: subject of grooming, how I think it's different from manipulation

841
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 11: and coercion is like when you're manipulating somebody, you're trying

842
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 11: to coerce them, You're holding something over their head, you're

843
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 11: threatening them, you're in their ear, trying to get them

844
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 11: to do something. Well, when it comes to grooman, I

845
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 11: think you're trying to mold them. You're trying to shove

846
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,359
Speaker 11: them into the ideal of how you want them to do,

847
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 11: versus you know, trying to get them to do something.

848
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 3: I love it.

849
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 2: This is the best when the community is weighing in.

850
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 2: Thank you, Crime Crew Club. I don't know, we need

851
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 2: to get a name for you. We need to foremost

852
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 2: so let's.

853
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:51,760
Speaker 4: Get your crime tonight, botties.

854
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah, exactly, thank you, ladies.

855
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,439
Speaker 2: And by the way, I guess it we should kind

856
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 2: of try to think of that even now, because you're right,

857
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 2: the coercion part of it is very big piece. And

858
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 2: maybe if body, I guess, what would you call this

859
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 2: other version of adult grooming and manipulation?

860
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 3: You know that is just plain coercion.

861
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 4: No, I think it is heavier than just coercion andtional coercion.

862
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 4: I think the way the second talk back, by the way,

863
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 4: I loved her accent.

864
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 3: I'm obsessed with it.

865
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 4: The molding.

866
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 3: That's what they're what groomers are doing.

867
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 4: They're molding these children and manipulating them to do something

868
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 4: they want. Now, I don't know what the word is,

869
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 4: but maybe we do need another term. As the first

870
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 4: talkback said, I think they combined those two.

871
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, those are two really smart thoughts, really smart. I

872
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 3: just don't know the word.

873
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 7: I don't know.

874
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 5: And I actually I thought about this quite a bit

875
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 5: after our conversation yesterday, and I pushed back pretty hard bodies. Okay, no, absolutely,

876
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 5: but may have more thoughts, and you know, thinking about

877
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 5: an adult with full capacity and everything else, you know, yeah,

878
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 5: what is the line? And I don't know, maybe it

879
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 5: shouldn't be like how much people do it all time?

880
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:04,320
Speaker 5: Of course, you know, we just spoke recently with Andrea,

881
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:08,800
Speaker 5: the host of Betrayal, which ps is a fabulous, staggeringly

882
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 5: wonderful podcast and the stories feature adult women who end

883
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 5: up and maybe some men in future series in future seasons,

884
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 5: but and women who end up turning their lives just

885
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 5: bit by bit and changing themselves. And listen, I think

886
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 5: we've all seen it either in our own lives or

887
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 5: our friends' lives or our friends friends lives. So I

888
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 5: don't know, I might be loosening my thought on the

889
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 5: grooming for adult.

890
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 2: Like my brain goes to, yeah, maybe this is you know,

891
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 2: I'm answering the question for all of us here. So

892
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 2: like my brain went to remember that documentary The Tinder Swindler,

893
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 2: when like somebody was like the end of being like

894
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 2: swindled from a distance over love and suddenly is like

895
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 2: emptying their cash accounts. And these were smart women, like

896
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 2: very very clever women. So yeah, maybe there's an adult

897
00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 2: and a young child version. Because even sex trafficking sometime

898
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 2: times falls under a different category. If you're talking about

899
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 2: adults who are you know, sex workers by trade?

900
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 3: Is crossing a line or state line?

901
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 2: Is at the same as you know what we're hearing

902
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 2: about in the Epstein case, where it's you know, girls

903
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 2: as young as twelve thirteen years old that are being

904
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 2: you know, shipped to an island in a helicopter by

905
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 2: Gilaine Maxwell, having their passport taken away and you know,

906
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 2: left there against their will.

907
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 3: Perhaps right that you know, what's the line?

908
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I feel like this crime club

909
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 2: could probably come up with some suggestions.

910
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 4: So let's start studying some lat Let's get it going, everybody.

911
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 4: Let's start studying some Latin and come up with a

912
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 4: proper term. Yeah, because it is bad, it's not and

913
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 4: I'm not you know, my whole point with that wasn't

914
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,839
Speaker 4: it that you know, these women it's their fault or

915
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 4: you know, by any start.

916
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 3: Of the imagination.

917
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,280
Speaker 4: I just think that you know, children and vulnerable people

918
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 4: need a little bit more protection than fully capable adults.

919
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 4: And I think grooming, whether it's not that word or

920
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 4: I just think it should.

921
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 3: Be reserved for the vulnerable. Yeah, I think that's interesting,

922
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 3: and I think that you make a really fair point.

923
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 4: And shout out by the way to Felicity Morris, the

924
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:11,360
Speaker 4: director of Tinder Swindler. She was my producer on donov

925
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 4: l Katz.

926
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 7: Oh.

927
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:12,799
Speaker 3: I loved it.

928
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought it was so interesting because again, it

929
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 2: just shows how somebody of sane, great mind could really,

930
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 2: you know, could really be turned upside down, just a

931
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 2: great choss of you know, love. Yeah, that was a

932
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,399
Speaker 2: great show anyway. Yeah, not that I'm making those two

933
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 2: assertions that you know, young girls being essentially sexually assaulted

934
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 2: has anything to do with losing your money and falling

935
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:33,919
Speaker 2: in love.

936
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 3: But yeah, there's there's a line. Yeah.

937
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 4: So now we're going to be turning though to a

938
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 4: really tragic headline that has said in us all. An

939
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 4: arrest has been made in the fatal shooting of Robin Ka.

940
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 4: She was the longtime music supervisor for American Idol and

941
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:54,439
Speaker 4: her husband, musician Thomas de Luca, in Therencino, California home.

942
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 3: The suspect is a.

943
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:59,359
Speaker 4: Twenty two year old Raymond Bouderian, and he was apprehended

944
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 4: after allegedly burglarizing the residents and fatally shooting the couple

945
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 4: during a confrontation. So authorities believe the killings were a

946
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 4: random act, and the case remains under investigation.

947
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really tragic, beyond because that's a beautiful area.

948
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 2: If you don't know, in Sino California, it's you know,

949
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 2: it's very safe, or at least it used to be

950
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 2: very safe, right, And there's you know, these beautiful, big

951
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:26,720
Speaker 2: homes and you know, it's neighborhoods, people with families, et cetera.

952
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 2: It's not sort of it's like Hollywood adjacent a little

953
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 2: bit kind of the suburbs, if you will. I worked

954
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 2: on American Idol season one, and although I didn't have

955
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 2: actual crossover with Robin during my time there, I have

956
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:43,280
Speaker 2: met her many times, and she's really beloved in the industry,

957
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 2: and it's an incredible loss.

958
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 3: Well, she's been a long time, right, she's been with

959
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 3: the American Idol.

960
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 2: For a really long yeah, since two thousand and nine,

961
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 2: I believe. And you know, that's an incredible staff too.

962
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:55,359
Speaker 2: If you're a fan of the show, they know how

963
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 2: to do it. You know, they run a really tight

964
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,439
Speaker 2: ship there and it's a real family affair. So many

965
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 2: people that work there have been there since the very

966
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,880
Speaker 2: very beginning, so you're not just losing even a coworker,

967
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 2: you know, it's really like losing a family member. So

968
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 2: you know, genuinely our hearts go out to Robin and

969
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 2: her family and obviously her husband's family. You know, there

970
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 2: were seventy year old couple that are at the time

971
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 2: of their lives and you know, built such a beautiful

972
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 2: life together and it shouldn't be this way.

973
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:26,760
Speaker 4: Right, So surveillance footage and forensic evidence led to his arrest,

974
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 4: while his identification and arrest and the LAPD had previously

975
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 4: responded to a possible burglary at the address, but no

976
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:38,360
Speaker 4: signs of force entry, so there is no evidence to

977
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 4: suggest that he was involved in any like massive burglary ring.

978
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 4: But the front door apparently was unlocked.

979
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 2: The front door is unlocked, right, I guess that's the lead.

980
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 2: You know, we don't live in a time or a

981
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,919
Speaker 2: place any longer where doors can be unlocked, And even

982
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 2: if you think you're in the corner of the world

983
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 2: where that doesn't happen, lock your doors, close your windows,

984
00:47:58,040 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 2: and look out for your neighbors.

985
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 3: Right.

986
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 4: So you're listening to true crime tonight on iHeartRadio where

987
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 4: we talk true crime all the time. I'm Buddy movin

988
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 4: And I'm here with Stephanie and Courtney and we're talking

989
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:13,240
Speaker 4: about the tragic death of an American idol producer, Robin

990
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 4: And now we're going to be moving into Luigi.

991
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 3: Courtney, what do you have for us?

992
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 5: So, Luigi Mangione, he's been out of the news for

993
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:23,800
Speaker 5: a minute. We can all recall that there was nothing

994
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:28,439
Speaker 5: but Luigi when he was arrested and charged with first

995
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 5: degree murder as an act of terrorism for allegedly killing

996
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:37,959
Speaker 5: United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson. So about a month ago,

997
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 5: the New York Post released a video and it was

998
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 5: on X by Michael Dadia, and he says that he

999
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 5: quickly became friends with Mangeo and while they were both

1000
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 5: at the MDC Brooklyn, while they were both imprisoned there

1001
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 5: being held, and he shared a bunch of details about

1002
00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 5: Mangione's daily life. And apparently Michael said to Luigi and

1003
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 5: I quote, Yo, it's an honor to meet you, and

1004
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 5: Luigi said he was one of the first kids who

1005
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:12,800
Speaker 5: came in here and knew who I was or even cared.

1006
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 5: And also that Luigi had a job and he was

1007
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 5: cleaning showers as his job. So just little sort of tidbits.

1008
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 5: But another thing he did say, which is interesting, and

1009
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 5: we've heard this in many, multiple of the cases we followed,

1010
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 5: in Coburger and in pikes In and many others, that

1011
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 5: when Luigi isn't cleaning showers or running laps, allegedly he

1012
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:39,839
Speaker 5: is scouring the news for his name.

1013
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,359
Speaker 2: Oh really, Well, wouldn't you do the same thing if

1014
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 2: you're behind bars and you're trying to get out. I

1015
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,360
Speaker 2: don't necessarily think that's so surprising.

1016
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 3: It's true, you.

1017
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 2: Know, Like, honestly, they have a lot of time on

1018
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 2: their hands and they're fighting a federal case. By the way,

1019
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:53,839
Speaker 2: what a who's who is in that prison? That's where

1020
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 2: Diddy is being haused obviously, Sam Bankman. Now, Luigi, that's

1021
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 2: a real Brooklyn spot. Nothing to be excited about. I

1022
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 2: hear the conditions are, you know eh, But yeah, I

1023
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,280
Speaker 2: don't find that so surprising. Of course he's watching everything

1024
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 2: and anything about him.

1025
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess I would too, I guess.

1026
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 5: And Luigi himself had posted an electronic communication from jail

1027
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 5: and he listed things he was thankful for, so if

1028
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 5: you are curious, those things include the Bureau of Prisons

1029
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 5: Music catalog, chicken Thursdays and sweet Baby raised barbecue sauce,

1030
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 5: and the thousands of books and letters people have mailed him.

1031
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, he's really quite the sensation, right. I

1032
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:41,720
Speaker 4: feel so divided about it so closely at the beginning.

1033
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 4: And you know, what was interesting about Luigi I think

1034
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 4: we could all agree, is that he was so popular

1035
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 4: and beloved.

1036
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 7: Right.

1037
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 2: He came from a huge Italian family. You know, we've

1038
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 2: seen photographs with him and all of his cousins. You know,

1039
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 2: they have that magnanimous smile, as does he. And you

1040
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:01,840
Speaker 2: know he was popular in high school, you know, valedictorian

1041
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 2: and you know, went to Ivy League schools. He was, like,

1042
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:08,240
Speaker 2: you know, beloved and had a ton of friends. Unlike

1043
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 2: a Brian Coburger in the Idaho case, who was you know,

1044
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:15,439
Speaker 2: sort of an odd outcast. This guy was living the life, right.

1045
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 2: So this is a real left turn for him. You know,

1046
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 2: there's been a lot of speculation, and it's merely a speculation.

1047
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 2: We do not know this for a fact, that maybe

1048
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 2: there was a psychotic break of sorts, or yes, he

1049
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 2: had had some a back injury that may have led

1050
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 2: him to find healthcare as.

1051
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 3: His big cause.

1052
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 2: But he didn't even have United Healthcare and kind of

1053
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 2: bums me out because you know, he's kind of being

1054
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 2: applauded for murdering somebody regardless of the healthcare stuff.

1055
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 3: And I know we're going to get into that deeper.

1056
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 2: I just don't think like the Timothy Shallomey lookalike contests

1057
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 2: and things, and you know, free Luigi is really helping.

1058
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 2: You know, I feel for his family. I feel for

1059
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 2: him now he's stuck behind bars till the end of

1060
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:59,759
Speaker 2: days with a back ache and a bad bed, and

1061
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 2: I'm glad he's you know, cleaning up around himself in

1062
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 2: the prisons. But like what a waste and like, what

1063
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 2: can we possibly take from this case that's positive?

1064
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 5: Well, there a playwright in San Francisco took from him

1065
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 5: the fact that Luigi the Musical should be a thing

1066
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:22,279
Speaker 5: put on stage, and well, yeah, it's a satirical comedy.

1067
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 5: It discusses themes of violence. It's also joined by versions

1068
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 5: of Diddy and Sam bankmin Freed. All of them were inmates.

1069
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 5: As you pointed out Stephanie at the very popular MDC Brooklyn.

1070
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 2: And listen, we really appreciate you calling in eight eight

1071
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 2: eight three one crime and for leaving your talkbacks. In fact,

1072
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 2: we have one.

1073
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 3: Now, Hey, lady is My.

1074
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 13: Name's Brittany from Canada. I just want to say that

1075
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 13: I love what you do. I'm a huge true crime

1076
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 13: fan and I always look forward to new episodes. I've

1077
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 13: listened to the Piked and Massacre and of course the

1078
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:54,760
Speaker 13: Idaho murders.

1079
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 3: Body.

1080
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 13: I love your documentary on Luca Magnotta. My sister was

1081
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 13: actually on the jury, so I got to hearing. Oh

1082
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 13: my god, bonus points because you girls have Joseph Scott

1083
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 13: morian on often love him and his podcast. Anyway, keep

1084
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 13: it up.

1085
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:09,359
Speaker 3: Can't wait to see what's to come.

1086
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 13: Bye.

1087
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:12,760
Speaker 4: I did not pay her to do that. I didn't

1088
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:14,719
Speaker 4: pay her to do that either, but I love her.

1089
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,840
Speaker 4: She seems awesome. I was gonna say, I mean, I

1090
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:20,240
Speaker 4: think that's.

1091
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 3: So that's so like.

1092
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 4: I love that and I love Canada obviously, I love Canada. Wow,

1093
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 4: thank you so much. That was so nice. That's so

1094
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 4: interesting that she was actually in the hearing. I thought

1095
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 4: her sister was on the jury. That's crazy.

1096
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:33,800
Speaker 3: It's a small world.

1097
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 2: What a small or not so small world. So she's

1098
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 2: hat to thank you book interesting.

1099
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:40,239
Speaker 3: Why do we have another talkback? Right now.

1100
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 7: Bye, Hey, y'all, I just kind of want to get

1101
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 7: y'all's perspective and thoughts on these violent criminals being able

1102
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 7: to change their names and kind of form these new identities.

1103
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:54,239
Speaker 7: Lock with the Hillside strangler, and we saw this in

1104
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 7: other cases too. Luck with Carla Hamulke, Canada's most hated woman,

1105
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 7: kind of just has a disservice to the victims, in

1106
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 7: my opinion, and it can kind of put the community

1107
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 7: in a bad position.

1108
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 13: What are y'all thoughts?

1109
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 4: You know, the fact that Karla Homolka is out walking

1110
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 4: around and you know she's working at like a school

1111
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:12,839
Speaker 4: or something like.

1112
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 3: Which is.

1113
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 4: Why are you kidding me? I do actually, but I

1114
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 4: want you to explain. We're going to get into it.

1115
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:22,839
Speaker 4: We have to cover this case. But just to start

1116
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:26,759
Speaker 4: this case, so her and her husband killed basically a

1117
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:29,759
Speaker 4: bunch of girls in Canada and one of them was

1118
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 4: her sister, and she basically lied about her involvement, and

1119
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 4: then after she was basically acquitted of the crime, they

1120
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 4: found video of her doing the killings.

1121
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:42,960
Speaker 2: Can you imagine, And by the way, as a result,

1122
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 2: she can't be tried again because that would be double

1123
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 2: jeopardy I'm it's that's accurate because it's in Canada, not

1124
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 2: the y.

1125
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,239
Speaker 4: Yes, they have similar things. Yeah, there's similar things there. Yeah,

1126
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 4: that's very much.

1127
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 2: Like that movie that I always get the wrong name

1128
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:56,760
Speaker 2: for Usual Suspects or Primal.

1129
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 3: I love this game.

1130
00:54:58,080 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 6: I get this.

1131
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 3: This game never gets old, the one with Ed Norton.

1132
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 2: But yeah, where he tricks them and then gets off

1133
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 2: and then after we see the video of her and

1134
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 2: she's like, yeah, sorry, and then she changes her identity.

1135
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 3: What a great question, by the way, great talk back.

1136
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, so they were but you know they were called

1137
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:16,760
Speaker 4: the Kenon Barbie Killers.

1138
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,920
Speaker 3: Oh they're so disgusting. Are so disgusting?

1139
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, so, but back to her original question, was the

1140
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:25,360
Speaker 4: name changing, And yeah, they shouldn't be allowed to do that.

1141
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 4: You know, they shouldn't be allowed to assume a new identity,

1142
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 4: especially somebody like you know, Ken Bianki, which I'm not

1143
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 4: going to call him his actual name, screw the call.

1144
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 4: It's Ken Byanki, and he should not be allowed to

1145
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 4: change his name. I completely agree with our talk about.

1146
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 2: By the way, that Kenon Barbie case. It is and

1147
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:45,840
Speaker 2: I say this so very rarely. I think it is

1148
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 2: one of the most gruesome, hideous cases of all time.

1149
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 2: And I'm really glad that you alerted that to us

1150
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:53,320
Speaker 2: because we should do a full night shoa.

1151
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:56,359
Speaker 3: That case is really believable.

1152
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 4: Luca took a picture with his mother, who is a

1153
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,400
Speaker 4: blondehaired woman, and it was kind of like far away

1154
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 4: and he pretended he was dating Karla Hamolka.

1155
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:07,759
Speaker 2: Oh, what a bunch of sickos. Yeah, isn't that like

1156
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 2: in the basement of the house on Thanksgiving? And it

1157
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 2: was it was so too much. Yeah, that's a tale

1158
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 2: for a different time. If you're not familiar with that case,

1159
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 2: I have to, you know, not eat that day because

1160
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:20,799
Speaker 2: it's so incredibly nauseating. But yeah, they were just like beautiful,

1161
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:22,800
Speaker 2: beautiful couple air quotes.

1162
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 3: I say that in air quotes. Yeah, great question. I agree.

1163
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 3: They should not be allowed to change their names and

1164
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:27,439
Speaker 3: she did.

1165
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 2: Did they change their physical identity? Which she's working at

1166
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:32,719
Speaker 2: a restaurant locally and like a school or something. I

1167
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 2: haven't checked in on her like a long time. It's

1168
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:39,319
Speaker 2: been like five or six years since I checked up

1169
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 2: on her.

1170
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 3: I thought I was sure she was in prison.

1171
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 2: No what, I don't know why I thought that, because

1172
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 2: I do know the video after the fact was sort

1173
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 2: of like a big jaw dropping moment in that Yeah,

1174
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:51,720
Speaker 2: she couldn't be prosecuted in the same way again.

1175
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot the revisisting. Yeah, it's been a long

1176
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 4: but good talk back. Thank you so much for that.

1177
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:01,320
Speaker 5: Wow, and good for us to cover since I didn't

1178
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 5: even remember by name.

1179
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it was a really big, big block about

1180
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:06,760
Speaker 3: It's so gruesome. Yeah.

1181
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:11,920
Speaker 5: So back on the Luigimian June train for a moment.

1182
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:15,839
Speaker 5: United Healthcare has been back in the news and there

1183
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 5: was a really big article and then a bunch that

1184
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 5: followed the one in particular that struck a nerve with me.

1185
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 5: It was a New York Times this a guy named

1186
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 5: David Enrich, and United Healthcare has been using these really

1187
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 5: aggressive legal tactics and intimidation in order to silence critics.

1188
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 5: This includes journalists, activists, and investors. And they are justifying

1189
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 5: the censorship by citing concerns about safety following the murder

1190
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 5: of Brian Thompson by Luigiman Gione.

1191
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 4: Oh so they're saying, you're putting us in danger by

1192
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 4: criticizing us publicly.

1193
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 3: Yes, but aren't they I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

1194
00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:57,440
Speaker 3: The play along.

1195
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:01,120
Speaker 2: A man was murdered in it's the streets of New

1196
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 2: York City, and everybody, there's a big part of our

1197
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 2: country that has applauded that and this, regardless of the

1198
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 2: healthcare stuff. And I don't begin to know the ins

1199
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 2: and outs, and I'm glad we're discussing it.

1200
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 3: It was in a cold blooded.

1201
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 2: Kill, and he did have a family and two sons,

1202
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:21,440
Speaker 2: and you know that should not be applauded as an

1203
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 2: in general note my humble opinion. But that said, I

1204
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 2: know the healthcare system specifically does need everything.

1205
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 5: I just think it's such a wildly dangerous precedent to set.

1206
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 5: And of course, Stephanie, I underline that no nobody should

1207
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 5: be murdered for any reason. However, I do not think

1208
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:46,000
Speaker 5: that multimillion and billion dollar companies like as I see it,

1209
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 5: I see it ethically the opposite way that they are

1210
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 5: using this death of Brian, this murder of or killing

1211
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 5: of Brian Thompson, in order to keep everyone quiet about

1212
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:01,960
Speaker 5: what their industry is actually doing. So that's my problem

1213
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 5: with it.

1214
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:06,200
Speaker 2: So the whole breakdown of the I know you're following

1215
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 2: this very closely, is Luigi Mangione was all worked up

1216
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 2: because he felt as though this particular healthcare company was

1217
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 2: basically employing bots AI to very quickly dismiss health care

1218
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 2: claims that in some cases were life and death right.

1219
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 2: So imagine you're on dialysis and you really need that

1220
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 2: medicine or you need a life saving surgery that now

1221
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 2: suddenly AI is deciding you're not able to get despite

1222
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 2: the fact that you have health insurance and despite the

1223
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 2: fact that you pay your probably very high premium like the.

1224
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 3: Rest of us. It's absurd.

1225
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 2: So he was very worked up about this cause although

1226
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:46,760
Speaker 2: he didn't have this particular health care plan, which I

1227
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 2: find interesting and comes from a pretty affluent family, but

1228
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 2: that's not here nor there. So okay, two problems exist.

1229
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 2: One right in healthcare, we need to adjust. It seems

1230
00:59:56,360 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 2: incredibly dangerous to just be having bots in I dismissing

1231
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:06,240
Speaker 2: life saving care in so many cases, and that seems.

1232
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 3: To be there was a big uptick of that.

1233
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 2: So yeah, this is kind of opening the door to

1234
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:13,080
Speaker 2: that larger conversation where do we go from here?

1235
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:14,000
Speaker 3: Like what is the solve?

1236
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 5: Well, I do not think the solve is shutting down documentaries.

1237
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 5: Like one example, there was this docuseries Modern Medical Mafia,

1238
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 5: and in it, United Healthcare was criticized for their pharmacy

1239
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 5: benefits managers and accused them of literally operating like organized

1240
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 5: crime to raise prescription drug prices.

1241
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:37,720
Speaker 3: Oh wow, it's true. True.

1242
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:40,480
Speaker 2: We were looking closely to this well, working on something

1243
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 2: that I also got kabashed.

1244
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:46,640
Speaker 5: Really yes, so and that video here's where I think

1245
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:51,440
Speaker 5: it gets so dangerous. So that docuseries was removed from Amazon,

1246
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:56,720
Speaker 5: Prime Video and Vimeo after United Healthcare sued and sent

1247
01:00:56,800 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 5: warm and Warm legal warnings defamation and violation of the

1248
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:07,439
Speaker 5: platform policies. Oh my gosh, Now we all know what

1249
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 5: the legal vetting that you need to go through to

1250
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 5: get a documentary onto air, and how they can really

1251
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 5: help expose stuff that's going on Alah Epstein as a

1252
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 5: prime example right now. But that's the problem is that

1253
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 5: United Healthcare is using the death of Brian Thompson to

1254
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:34,680
Speaker 5: stop they Also they've targeted so many critics, you know,

1255
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 5: journalists like I said, Oh, the surgeon from Texas, doctor

1256
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:42,240
Speaker 5: Elizabeth Potter. They literally called her in the middle of

1257
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:47,760
Speaker 5: a breast reconstruction surgery, and so obviously she thought it

1258
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:51,920
Speaker 5: was incredibly urgent and it was about covering the insurance,

1259
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 5: and she said, you know, she let this be known publicly,

1260
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 5: said insurance is out of control in a video. I

1261
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:01,760
Speaker 5: have no other words. We can all agree getting a

1262
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 5: call when you're midcut and you're a surgeon to stop

1263
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 5: it is something you should be allowed to say. Yeah,

1264
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 5: United Healthcare differed. So I don't know, Boddy, what do

1265
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 5: you think.

1266
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:16,560
Speaker 4: I'm just disgusted. Actually they okay. First of all, they

1267
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:19,280
Speaker 4: called her in the middle of surgery and to make

1268
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:21,960
Speaker 4: that call, So she stopped the surgery to take this call.

1269
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:25,240
Speaker 4: I don't understand how that works. Well, doctor calls and like.

1270
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 5: Well, having watched Dr and I know you watched Gray's Anatomy,

1271
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:33,520
Speaker 5: but having watched R yes, you can step out if

1272
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 5: it's something incredibly urgent and take a call. And this

1273
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 5: doctor thought it was incredibly urgent.

1274
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 4: So did they send Okay, So she made a video

1275
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:45,400
Speaker 4: and I guess she talked about her concerns about this happening. Yeah,

1276
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 4: something happened. Did she see me or something like? What happened?

1277
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:52,920
Speaker 5: So she was sent a defamation letter. And after that,

1278
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:56,760
Speaker 5: and after the video and the defamation letter, any attempts

1279
01:02:56,800 --> 01:03:00,840
Speaker 5: on her part to negotiate in network status were stalled

1280
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:03,320
Speaker 5: after that point, after that video.

1281
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:05,120
Speaker 4: Okay, well, I don't want to say. What I'm really

1282
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:06,560
Speaker 4: thinking is I don't want to get my own letter.

1283
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:08,320
Speaker 3: No, I know, let me just say the same.

1284
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 2: We had a scenario too, Courtney and I right when

1285
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:14,440
Speaker 2: this all broke. We were like really rushing on something

1286
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:17,560
Speaker 2: that seemed extremely timely and you know, we don't need

1287
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 2: to go super into it, but it did get kabashed.

1288
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,880
Speaker 2: And by the way, you know, look, you think about it,

1289
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 2: the amount of money and time it takes to you know,

1290
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:31,120
Speaker 2: squash stories and put out, you know, information to make

1291
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:34,560
Speaker 2: you know, a certain company look better, like a healthcare company,

1292
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:37,400
Speaker 2: why not just take that same time and resource and

1293
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:40,560
Speaker 2: put it toward making the company more efficient. And I'm

1294
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 2: sure the shared goal for everybody is for health, right,

1295
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:48,480
Speaker 2: Like you need some life saving efforts, you need some

1296
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:53,440
Speaker 2: life saving surgeries, medicines, you're paying for it. Like it

1297
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 2: does seem like a broken system in that regard. I

1298
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 2: know that's like a wishful thing, but it's bummer.

1299
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 4: I mean, I think if you're doing things that are critical,

1300
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:03,600
Speaker 4: you should be open to criticism.

1301
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm.

1302
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:08,520
Speaker 2: And right, it wasn't, like, you know, a cosmetic lip job,

1303
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 2: but you know this was something. If I'm not mistaken,

1304
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 2: it was a misectomy that was required for something cancerous.

1305
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 3: Even think about that, I like that. I really don't know.

1306
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:18,439
Speaker 3: This is really sad.

1307
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 4: But next we're going to be digging into the deeper

1308
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:24,200
Speaker 4: into why relatives of Sarah Grace Patrick believe she's been

1309
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:26,560
Speaker 4: wrongly accused of her parents' murder.

1310
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:28,840
Speaker 3: And later we're turning the mic over to you.

1311
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:30,640
Speaker 4: Give us a call at eighty eight eight thirty one

1312
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 4: crime on your thoughts on any of tonight's.

1313
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:34,440
Speaker 3: Stories, keep it right here, true crimes.

1314
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 2: And we have a couple of crazy cases about parents side.

1315
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 2: We will get into that in a moment, but we

1316
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:53,080
Speaker 2: also have a talkback, so let's go to that real quick.

1317
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:58,680
Speaker 14: Kiff from Kentucky, do you think that the Menindez brothers

1318
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 14: will get proba instead of just going free for a while,

1319
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:05,800
Speaker 14: or do you think they'll be free and clear or

1320
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:08,680
Speaker 14: remain in prison for good. I personally think they should

1321
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 14: be out, but I'm great to hear your take.

1322
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 3: Have a good night. Yeah, that's a hate, great question. Yeah,

1323
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:17,440
Speaker 3: I think they'll go on parole. I think they'll be

1324
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:20,240
Speaker 3: on parole, So you think they'll be released within the

1325
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:20,880
Speaker 3: next month.

1326
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:25,720
Speaker 4: Well, their hearing isn't until August twenty first, so I

1327
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:28,120
Speaker 4: don't necessarily think they're going to get habeas corpus relief

1328
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:31,600
Speaker 4: as the requesting. I think that that will eventually be

1329
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:33,360
Speaker 4: denied and they're going to have their parole hearing on

1330
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:35,400
Speaker 4: the twenty first and the twenty second, and I think

1331
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:38,240
Speaker 4: they'll be granted parole and be out by September.

1332
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:41,320
Speaker 5: Why do you think the habeas corpus, which if you

1333
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:44,920
Speaker 5: were listening earlier, we actually literally just define habeas corpus

1334
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:47,360
Speaker 5: It means you shouldn't have my body in this prison

1335
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:49,120
Speaker 5: right in their basic translation.

1336
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 4: And they're asking for that relief because of that letter

1337
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:54,080
Speaker 4: that was not allowed to be presented in court.

1338
01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 3: Am I correct about that?

1339
01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 10: So?

1340
01:05:56,240 --> 01:05:59,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, So this letter was written before the murders to

1341
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:03,720
Speaker 4: cousin of the brothers, and this letter was I think

1342
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:08,000
Speaker 4: Lyle explaining to his cousin about the abuse that they

1343
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 4: were suffering. And so it's documented before the murders and

1344
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:15,560
Speaker 4: it wasn't allowed to be presented at trial, and they're

1345
01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:18,400
Speaker 4: saying basically that it had if it had been allowed

1346
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:21,160
Speaker 4: at trial then they would never have been convicted.

1347
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:24,040
Speaker 2: However, if even if they had been convicted, it would

1348
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:27,280
Speaker 2: have been time served by now, So regardless, they should

1349
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 2: be out. Here's my only like other side to that.

1350
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:32,560
Speaker 2: And I get really conflicted on this one because I do.

1351
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:36,280
Speaker 2: I feel a lot of compassion for them and their circumstances. Yeah,

1352
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:39,520
Speaker 2: I also just feel like the origin story of them

1353
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:42,400
Speaker 2: and the sexual abuse that they endured by their dad,

1354
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 2: by their account, and of course this letter would reinforce that.

1355
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:48,480
Speaker 2: You know, does everybody get that same look? You know,

1356
01:06:48,560 --> 01:06:51,800
Speaker 2: there are many, many, many many prisoners that are serving

1357
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:56,880
Speaker 2: very scary sentences for doing very dastardly horrible things and

1358
01:06:57,000 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 2: have maybe a similar origin story. And that's just makes

1359
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:03,080
Speaker 2: me feel like it's a little unfair because the Menanda's

1360
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:06,640
Speaker 2: brothers were so sensationalized, and maybe for a good reason

1361
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:09,640
Speaker 2: in the Ryan Murphy scripted series, which was you know,

1362
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:13,760
Speaker 2: of course very good obviously a very good documentary made

1363
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:15,960
Speaker 2: about them that I think really shed a light on

1364
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:19,200
Speaker 2: these new developments. Probably and I believe it was Campfire

1365
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:22,520
Speaker 2: that made that documentary. Had they not, chances are this

1366
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:25,200
Speaker 2: wouldn't have seen the light of day. And are we

1367
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:28,720
Speaker 2: cherry picking because of fame a little bit, and I

1368
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:31,760
Speaker 2: feel bad for those who are also not going to

1369
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:34,760
Speaker 2: get that same luxury. And frankly, we can't give that

1370
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:36,480
Speaker 2: to every behind.

1371
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:39,040
Speaker 4: Bars, but maybe this is a good start, fair, right,

1372
01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:41,480
Speaker 4: So I agree with you. I do think that the

1373
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:45,240
Speaker 4: Menanda's brothers are getting a little bit of fair treatment,

1374
01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:48,480
Speaker 4: let's say, But I do think that we can't overlook

1375
01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:49,400
Speaker 4: it just because of that.

1376
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:51,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's totally fair.

1377
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:53,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's At the same time, I do agree with

1378
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:55,920
Speaker 4: you that there's I'm sure there's plenty of women and

1379
01:07:56,080 --> 01:08:01,520
Speaker 4: men in prison who have suffered abuse and murdered their spouse, husband, wife,

1380
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:05,560
Speaker 4: you know whatever, parents, cousins, I don't know, and are

1381
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:08,960
Speaker 4: dealing with similar situations that aren't getting that treatment, right,

1382
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:11,240
Speaker 4: But I don't think we should overlook the Menendez brothers

1383
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:13,720
Speaker 4: just because they are famous.

1384
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:15,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, that's fair.

1385
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 5: And of the multitude, which is it's very sad. There is,

1386
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:22,360
Speaker 5: of course a multitude of people who suffer extreme abuse.

1387
01:08:23,280 --> 01:08:26,599
Speaker 5: How many of them get the kind of attention that

1388
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:30,080
Speaker 5: they got before the initial trial, when the empire world

1389
01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:35,240
Speaker 5: was looking at them and painting them as rich party boys,

1390
01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:37,960
Speaker 5: and so it's kind of both sides of the coin

1391
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:39,960
Speaker 5: in this and looks.

1392
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:43,040
Speaker 2: It also does show the importance of content, right, you know,

1393
01:08:43,320 --> 01:08:46,640
Speaker 2: looking at cases through a fresh lens, you know, is

1394
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:50,160
Speaker 2: sometimes extremely meaningful, and you know this would be an

1395
01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:53,599
Speaker 2: example of that. Obviously kind of gets me divided though,

1396
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:55,280
Speaker 2: so but yeah, it's such a great question, but.

1397
01:08:55,240 --> 01:08:57,680
Speaker 4: It's a slippery slope too, Like if you look at

1398
01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:00,760
Speaker 4: who's in prison, did you know somebody who maybe got

1399
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:04,400
Speaker 4: addicted to crack cocaine killed the gas station attendant? Well,

1400
01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:06,519
Speaker 4: did he get addicted to crack cocaine because he was

1401
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:07,400
Speaker 4: abused by his parents?

1402
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:09,000
Speaker 3: Like, however, do you know what I mean? Like, it's

1403
01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:11,320
Speaker 3: a what is the chain of events? You know, like

1404
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:14,160
Speaker 3: murder to some degree? I mean I don't know.

1405
01:09:14,200 --> 01:09:16,000
Speaker 2: I don't know the end the minute I say it,

1406
01:09:16,040 --> 01:09:18,280
Speaker 2: I like unsay it in my head, in my heart.

1407
01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:20,680
Speaker 2: So it's a great talk back though, and a really

1408
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:23,120
Speaker 2: great question. We're seeing this a lot in the news

1409
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 2: right now too, because you know, Courtney, you're following this

1410
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:28,600
Speaker 2: new case of course of Sarah grayce Patrick.

1411
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:31,200
Speaker 3: And that's a tough one. Body. Do you want to

1412
01:09:31,280 --> 01:09:31,599
Speaker 3: jump in?

1413
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 2: I see you pointing out yourself right now. Let's go, yo,

1414
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:37,639
Speaker 2: got tied up and put in the corner.

1415
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:43,000
Speaker 4: Courtney, I'm still on my brain, ye body, Courtney and

1416
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:46,400
Speaker 4: I both talking about this one actually, But yeah, so

1417
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:49,960
Speaker 4: this is about Sarah Grace Patrick. Of course we started

1418
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:53,960
Speaker 4: talking about her earlier this week. She was arrested for

1419
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:57,559
Speaker 4: being a suspect in the murder of her mother, Kristen Brock,

1420
01:09:57,560 --> 01:10:00,720
Speaker 4: who was forty one, and her stepfather, James Brock, who

1421
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:03,600
Speaker 4: is forty five. They were found shot to death in

1422
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:06,519
Speaker 4: their bed. Their five year old daughter, who is Sarah

1423
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:11,760
Speaker 4: Grace Patrick's half sister, found them. Sarah Grace Patrick herself

1424
01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:14,240
Speaker 4: made the nine one to one call to report the incident,

1425
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:17,120
Speaker 4: claiming she and her younger sister found the bodies. So

1426
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:21,959
Speaker 4: after the murders, Sarah posted, you know, multiple emotional TikTok

1427
01:10:22,160 --> 01:10:25,479
Speaker 4: you know videos mourning her parents, describing her life as

1428
01:10:25,479 --> 01:10:28,559
Speaker 4: a horror movie in dealing with this, which of course

1429
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:29,720
Speaker 4: you know would.

1430
01:10:29,479 --> 01:10:33,080
Speaker 2: Be no matter how or didn't kill them.

1431
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:35,520
Speaker 3: It's a horror show, yeah, exactly, exactly.

1432
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:38,680
Speaker 4: And she was expressing feelings of like missing her, you know,

1433
01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:41,719
Speaker 4: her mom, and you know, having to go to the funeral,

1434
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:43,960
Speaker 4: and like she can't believe this is her life now.

1435
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:46,880
Speaker 4: And she was also reaching out to I know of

1436
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:50,080
Speaker 4: at least two TikTokers that she reached out to that

1437
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:53,720
Speaker 4: create true crime content on that platform, asking them to

1438
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:58,080
Speaker 4: cover this case. And the authorities say they have a

1439
01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:01,439
Speaker 4: mountain of evidence against her, but have not disclosed any

1440
01:11:01,479 --> 01:11:03,320
Speaker 4: of those details to the public, so we don't know

1441
01:11:03,360 --> 01:11:06,639
Speaker 4: what the evidence is. The sheriff office has not ruled

1442
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:09,920
Speaker 4: out additional suspects or arrest either, which makes it even

1443
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:13,960
Speaker 4: more complex, right, And they encourage the public to send

1444
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:16,599
Speaker 4: in public tips, so it tells me, yeah, they have

1445
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:18,800
Speaker 4: a lot of evidence, but they are also suspect that

1446
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:21,879
Speaker 4: there might be other people involved, but they don't.

1447
01:11:21,680 --> 01:11:24,840
Speaker 3: Have enough to arrest somebody. That's what it tells me.

1448
01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:29,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like again, I know her father, living father

1449
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:32,680
Speaker 2: and his wife are kind of standing up for her

1450
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:35,120
Speaker 2: right so they have a very different opinion on it.

1451
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:36,000
Speaker 3: They do.

1452
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:39,160
Speaker 4: In fact, they just spoke with the Daily Mail on

1453
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:44,840
Speaker 4: the internet and an article yesterday details how the biological

1454
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:47,840
Speaker 4: father again it was her stepfather that she killed, her

1455
01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:54,080
Speaker 4: stepfather and her biological mother, her biological father of Sarah,

1456
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:57,200
Speaker 4: is basically saying that he doesn't think that she's capable

1457
01:11:57,280 --> 01:11:58,519
Speaker 4: of doing something like this now.

1458
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:01,360
Speaker 3: Of course every parent is going.

1459
01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:03,400
Speaker 4: To say something like this, that's you have when I'm

1460
01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:05,320
Speaker 4: reading this article, That's what I'm thinking in my head.

1461
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:09,080
Speaker 4: He has largely maintained, you know, his silence around this arrest.

1462
01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:10,840
Speaker 4: But he is the one that actually drove her to

1463
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:12,639
Speaker 4: the police station to turn herself in.

1464
01:12:12,920 --> 01:12:14,000
Speaker 3: Which is a tough spot.

1465
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:17,559
Speaker 7: You know.

1466
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:21,439
Speaker 4: We talk about this a lot. YEA his girlfriend because

1467
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:25,320
Speaker 4: his name is Donnie. I can't He's got to. It's strange,

1468
01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:29,200
Speaker 4: it's hard to pronounce. It's d O N I E L.

1469
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:30,240
Speaker 3: Donnelle.

1470
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:34,360
Speaker 4: His girlfriend, her name is Katie Okay, And she said

1471
01:12:34,520 --> 01:12:38,599
Speaker 4: this is in quotes, Sarah Grace maintains her innocence. We

1472
01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:43,160
Speaker 4: believe her, meaning the girlfriend and the dad, we believe her.

1473
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:46,400
Speaker 4: We are all supporting her. It's a very difficult time.

1474
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:49,360
Speaker 4: After that, we will speak to the press to make

1475
01:12:49,400 --> 01:12:52,400
Speaker 4: sure we advocate for Sarah Grace. For now, we are

1476
01:12:52,400 --> 01:12:54,160
Speaker 4: going to sit back for a second, just to make

1477
01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:57,040
Speaker 4: sure everything is in her benefit and not in her hindrance,

1478
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:00,479
Speaker 4: and added that Sarah is due to meet with her

1479
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:03,240
Speaker 4: lawyers this coming Monday, and of course I think that's

1480
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:07,280
Speaker 4: actually really smart of them not to speed your things

1481
01:13:07,479 --> 01:13:10,000
Speaker 4: get twisted and you didn't say that this time. Why

1482
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:12,240
Speaker 4: didn't you say this? So I think it's probably smart

1483
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:13,120
Speaker 4: for them to be quiet.

1484
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:16,400
Speaker 5: I totally agree and listen, we'd love to hear your

1485
01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:19,719
Speaker 5: thoughts on this case. It is a tragedy. No matter

1486
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:23,840
Speaker 5: what happened, two people are dead. A now seventeen year

1487
01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:28,639
Speaker 5: old girl, Sarah Grace Patrick, is in a lot of trouble.

1488
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:31,439
Speaker 5: Whether he tried as an adult, she will be tried

1489
01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:34,000
Speaker 5: as an adult. We want to hear your thoughts on that.

1490
01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:36,400
Speaker 5: I mean, what do you think should she be tried

1491
01:13:36,479 --> 01:13:39,559
Speaker 5: as an adult? Assuming we get to the court case

1492
01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:42,559
Speaker 5: eight at eight to three to one crime. But I

1493
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:45,880
Speaker 5: do think body, you are totally correct that I don't

1494
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:49,559
Speaker 5: feel like the pictures painted because that's really two rather

1495
01:13:49,680 --> 01:13:52,320
Speaker 5: disparate things. One mountain of evidence.

1496
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:53,439
Speaker 3: We have her.

1497
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:57,200
Speaker 5: Maybe there's something else and we really want all your tips.

1498
01:13:57,680 --> 01:13:57,960
Speaker 3: Right.

1499
01:13:58,479 --> 01:14:01,720
Speaker 2: It's also it is following the same logic that you

1500
01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:05,080
Speaker 2: guys just we just were talking about with the Menendez brothers.

1501
01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:09,960
Speaker 2: Is there something more sinister behind the scenes in Sarah

1502
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:14,719
Speaker 2: Grace Patrick's life that maybe would inform the why even

1503
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:17,280
Speaker 2: if she did and if there was a why, would

1504
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:19,960
Speaker 2: you guys care. Why do we care so much about

1505
01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:23,679
Speaker 2: the Menendez because they had a very difficult origin story.

1506
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:25,479
Speaker 3: What if she does too, what.

1507
01:14:25,760 --> 01:14:28,679
Speaker 4: Do I care? Yes, we don't know, and I hate

1508
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:31,280
Speaker 4: to go there because you know, these are victims of

1509
01:14:31,320 --> 01:14:33,759
Speaker 4: a murder and I don't want to know without any

1510
01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:34,519
Speaker 4: evidence at all.

1511
01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:37,040
Speaker 3: Also, a seventeen year old girl, and I was sixteen

1512
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:37,559
Speaker 3: at the time.

1513
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:40,919
Speaker 4: It was sixteen. Now here's the other thing. This happened

1514
01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:43,920
Speaker 4: in February. And if they have a mountain of evidence,

1515
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:46,280
Speaker 4: why did it take five months to arrest her. I

1516
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:48,240
Speaker 4: think there's a lot of things we just don't know

1517
01:14:48,320 --> 01:14:50,680
Speaker 4: yet about this, And I think that that's one thing

1518
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:53,479
Speaker 4: that makes it really intriguing for me at least, is

1519
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:57,200
Speaker 4: there's just what's missing? And I love that question what's missing?

1520
01:14:57,360 --> 01:15:00,439
Speaker 4: So her public defender filed the motion for bond just

1521
01:15:00,479 --> 01:15:02,320
Speaker 4: so we all know, to be set so that she

1522
01:15:02,360 --> 01:15:04,120
Speaker 4: could be really some bailed, but a hearing has not

1523
01:15:04,240 --> 01:15:07,679
Speaker 4: been scheduled for that yet. Multiple family members has said

1524
01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:12,080
Speaker 4: that the home has been searched, with Dennis Nolan, who

1525
01:15:12,160 --> 01:15:16,360
Speaker 4: is Sarah's maternal grandfather, and speculating they were looking for

1526
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:19,720
Speaker 4: the missing gun. Apparently there's a missing gun, So we're

1527
01:15:19,720 --> 01:15:23,719
Speaker 4: going to probably hear more about that soon. Now. Sarah's

1528
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:28,160
Speaker 4: grandmother on her father's side, Donna Arnette, told a Daily

1529
01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:30,800
Speaker 4: Mail of her son's part break and worry over her

1530
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:33,880
Speaker 4: granddaughter's arresting. All he can do is cry. I mean

1531
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:36,640
Speaker 4: this podcast, not this part of dad. And what is

1532
01:15:36,680 --> 01:15:38,559
Speaker 4: Sophie's choice to have to make? You know, we talk

1533
01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:40,760
Speaker 4: about this offline all the time. What would you do

1534
01:15:40,960 --> 01:15:44,320
Speaker 4: if your favorite family member, your child, your sibling, your

1535
01:15:44,479 --> 01:15:48,120
Speaker 4: parent committed a vicious crime and you were told they

1536
01:15:48,160 --> 01:15:49,280
Speaker 4: did you know?

1537
01:15:49,320 --> 01:15:51,800
Speaker 2: Would you hide them? Would you you know, ate in

1538
01:15:51,880 --> 01:15:54,920
Speaker 2: a bait, bet them? And I think he handled equally

1539
01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:58,559
Speaker 2: as perfectly as you can, assuming she's you know, driving

1540
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:01,599
Speaker 2: your loved one to turn himself in, to stand with

1541
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:05,479
Speaker 2: them and stand behind them with love. But still, you know,

1542
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:07,639
Speaker 2: they have to face the piper. You if you take

1543
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:11,519
Speaker 2: somebody's life, there is real recourse for that and period

1544
01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:14,719
Speaker 2: the end, And it just seems very difficult for all involved.

1545
01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:17,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, it is, and we'll obviously be following this as

1546
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:19,320
Speaker 5: new information comes out.

1547
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:21,840
Speaker 3: And what a night it has been. And I'm just

1548
01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:23,200
Speaker 3: saying this was your favorite show.

1549
01:16:23,479 --> 01:16:27,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is my Alaric my friends, and we haven't

1550
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:30,240
Speaker 4: even talked about Idaho and it's been my favorite, my

1551
01:16:30,240 --> 01:16:31,080
Speaker 4: favorite show so far.

1552
01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:32,799
Speaker 3: Sorrow.

1553
01:16:33,240 --> 01:16:36,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, the hearing for tomorrow the Idaho student murders will

1554
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:40,160
Speaker 2: be pretty explosive, So we'll obviously be following that very closely,

1555
01:16:40,320 --> 01:16:43,040
Speaker 2: and we'll updating you tomorrow. And yeah, we're going to

1556
01:16:43,080 --> 01:16:45,719
Speaker 2: get into Gary Coleman later in the week. We also

1557
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:48,439
Speaker 2: are going to continue to follow this this particular case.

1558
01:16:48,520 --> 01:16:50,880
Speaker 2: I mean, I just think there's probably a lot more

1559
01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:52,080
Speaker 2: context to this.

1560
01:16:52,439 --> 01:16:54,360
Speaker 3: Sarah Sarah Grace Patrick case.

1561
01:16:54,600 --> 01:16:57,799
Speaker 2: And also we haven't even got to the potential serial

1562
01:16:57,880 --> 01:17:00,240
Speaker 2: killer in Maine that keeps getting pushed and how at

1563
01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:03,400
Speaker 2: the dentist who allegedly has killed his wife with you know,

1564
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:04,160
Speaker 2: eye drops.

1565
01:17:04,280 --> 01:17:05,519
Speaker 3: There's more on that to come.

1566
01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:09,479
Speaker 2: So the night just kind of got stacked this evening,

1567
01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:13,000
Speaker 2: so definitely tune in tomorrow. Reminder, we're gone on Friday,

1568
01:17:13,080 --> 01:17:16,479
Speaker 2: but we are back on Sunday, So Sunday through Thursday

1569
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:19,160
Speaker 2: live two hours and if you missed any of the show,

1570
01:17:19,280 --> 01:17:20,480
Speaker 2: just catch it as a podcast.

1571
01:17:20,720 --> 01:17:22,479
Speaker 3: We actually have a talkback right now.

1572
01:17:23,000 --> 01:17:26,200
Speaker 15: Hey, if y'all are looking for another case to cover,

1573
01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:32,400
Speaker 15: there's the James Craig a Colorado dentist who poisoned his wife.

1574
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:35,519
Speaker 15: His trial is starting shortly, and I think it might

1575
01:17:35,520 --> 01:17:38,840
Speaker 15: be interesting to dive deep.

1576
01:17:39,320 --> 01:17:44,320
Speaker 3: Yes, are we being tapped? Are we being tapped right now?

1577
01:17:44,360 --> 01:17:46,240
Speaker 3: That is so opening statements.

1578
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:48,759
Speaker 4: And just began, and we're learning through these opening statements,

1579
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:52,320
Speaker 4: so kind of using this Bowden defense, which basically is

1580
01:17:52,360 --> 01:17:56,000
Speaker 4: that the cops jumped the gun and without really they

1581
01:17:56,200 --> 01:17:59,280
Speaker 4: Basically what it means is they had their suspect in mind,

1582
01:17:59,400 --> 01:18:04,120
Speaker 4: him the husband, and did the investigation based around the

1583
01:18:04,160 --> 01:18:06,599
Speaker 4: fact that he did it instead of investigating the murder.

1584
01:18:06,920 --> 01:18:10,000
Speaker 4: And they're saying in their opening statements that she was

1585
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:11,120
Speaker 4: suicidal and she.

1586
01:18:11,160 --> 01:18:14,040
Speaker 5: Probably did it herself, and that she poisoned her own

1587
01:18:14,120 --> 01:18:20,200
Speaker 5: protein shakes with eye drops and arson arson that he

1588
01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:21,719
Speaker 5: sent to himself.

1589
01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:26,559
Speaker 2: Excuse me, Yeah, this is a troubling one because yes,

1590
01:18:26,800 --> 01:18:29,160
Speaker 2: does the you know, he's really leaning into the idea

1591
01:18:29,160 --> 01:18:31,599
Speaker 2: of tunnel vision. By the way, great talk back. You

1592
01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:34,800
Speaker 2: are definitely in our heads, howe. You are a part

1593
01:18:34,840 --> 01:18:38,240
Speaker 2: of the crew, and yeah, you are officially on the team.

1594
01:18:38,560 --> 01:18:40,879
Speaker 2: But yeah, we're doing a deep dive into that case tomorrow.

1595
01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:44,080
Speaker 2: We were planning on starting it today actually, and Frankly,

1596
01:18:44,120 --> 01:18:45,840
Speaker 2: the night just got away from us, he did.

1597
01:18:45,880 --> 01:18:47,400
Speaker 3: So yeah, much more on that to come.

1598
01:18:47,439 --> 01:18:49,759
Speaker 2: We'll be curious to hear more of your thoughts because

1599
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:51,840
Speaker 2: that's a trial that is about to heat up in

1600
01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:52,800
Speaker 2: a very real way.

1601
01:18:53,000 --> 01:18:54,639
Speaker 3: So yeah, thank you for the tip.

1602
01:18:54,840 --> 01:18:58,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely, And then don't forget tomorrow the gag order.

1603
01:18:58,200 --> 01:19:00,559
Speaker 4: We just kind of touched on that briefly. I wanted

1604
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:02,679
Speaker 4: to mention real quick there was a motion file today

1605
01:19:02,720 --> 01:19:06,360
Speaker 4: by the state in this state of Idaho versus Brian Koberger,

1606
01:19:06,720 --> 01:19:10,439
Speaker 4: the Idaho student murderers, and they are saying in this

1607
01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:13,519
Speaker 4: motion that they are not going to object to the

1608
01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:16,559
Speaker 4: gag order being lifted early, which.

1609
01:19:16,439 --> 01:19:18,760
Speaker 2: Is ridiculous if they even have a gag order. But

1610
01:19:19,040 --> 01:19:22,400
Speaker 2: nonetheless my two cents, but yes, we will be We

1611
01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:25,679
Speaker 2: will be there and reporting all the ins and outs

1612
01:19:25,720 --> 01:19:28,559
Speaker 2: tomorrow night. So yeah, thank you for the great show.

1613
01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:33,200
Speaker 2: And also again to Team Bryant, to Michael Bryant of

1614
01:19:33,200 --> 01:19:35,479
Speaker 2: course and his wife who was you know, who also

1615
01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:38,879
Speaker 2: made the documentary Filthy Rich that we talked to on Sunday.

1616
01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:41,599
Speaker 2: It's a family affair there. They're all undercover.

1617
01:19:41,680 --> 01:19:44,360
Speaker 4: All I want to go to their dinner parties yeah, exactly.

1618
01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:45,559
Speaker 3: That's the TV show.

1619
01:19:45,600 --> 01:19:47,880
Speaker 5: And Michael Bryant really, if you haven't seen it, you

1620
01:19:47,920 --> 01:19:52,200
Speaker 5: should catch his show Justice Serve TV. It's excellent.

1621
01:19:52,880 --> 01:19:55,479
Speaker 2: Great, well, listen, We're going to be here tomorrow night,

1622
01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:58,360
Speaker 2: same time, same place, and again we want to hear

1623
01:19:58,360 --> 01:20:00,680
Speaker 2: from you, so please hit us up. Make sure you

1624
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:02,920
Speaker 2: leave us those talkbacks. It could be at any time

1625
01:20:02,960 --> 01:20:05,920
Speaker 2: of day. Just download the iHeart app, pushed a little

1626
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:09,080
Speaker 2: right hand button in the top corner and boom, your

1627
01:20:09,160 --> 01:20:12,040
Speaker 2: opinion will be heard. Do we have any more talk

1628
01:20:12,080 --> 01:20:13,959
Speaker 2: box to go to or none? Not anymore?

1629
01:20:14,040 --> 01:20:16,880
Speaker 3: We don't rap. The music's playing us out. We don't

1630
01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:19,639
Speaker 3: even have Oh my goodness, we listen. Goodbye.

1631
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:22,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, time to say goodbye. You're listening to True Crime Tonight.

1632
01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:25,360
Speaker 2: It's been a great one. This is True Crime Tonight,

1633
01:20:25,439 --> 01:20:28,880
Speaker 2: All crime, all the time. Listen you guys, stay safe

1634
01:20:28,920 --> 01:20:30,439
Speaker 2: out there. Good night, Thank you everyone.

1635
01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:31,280
Speaker 3: Good night,