WEBVTT - Love Unbroken 0:00:04.773 --> 0:00:11.213 Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio. 0:00:15.893 --> 0:00:19.053 Okay, welcome back everybody. We're here for another episode of 0:00:19.093 --> 0:00:23.413 Comeback Stories. And today we are here with Sybil Fox 0:00:23.653 --> 0:00:27.733 and Rob Richardson known as Fox and Rob, who are 0:00:27.813 --> 0:00:32.813 a New Orleans couple whose marriage survived despite years of incarceration. 0:00:33.293 --> 0:00:36.293 So their story was profiled in a documentary called Time, 0:00:36.333 --> 0:00:39.853 and then their book is called Time, The Untold Story 0:00:39.853 --> 0:00:44.453 of Love that held Us together when incarceration kept us apart. 0:00:44.853 --> 0:00:46.413 Welcome to the show, Fox and Rob. 0:00:47.613 --> 0:00:50.773 Oh, thank you so much for joining us. What a title, 0:00:50.853 --> 0:00:51.893 Comeback Stories. 0:00:53.093 --> 0:00:56.093 Hey, we all have one and we all love one. 0:00:56.213 --> 0:00:59.453 And I think we're about to hear another epic comeback 0:00:59.533 --> 0:01:02.093 story from the both of you. Dan, I don't know 0:01:02.133 --> 0:01:06.373 if we had a guest a duo ever. 0:01:06.173 --> 0:01:09.453 Before no I was going to bring up this is 0:01:09.493 --> 0:01:11.573 the first time we've ever had a duo. But I 0:01:11.613 --> 0:01:14.933 feel like as we dive deep in, we'll see how 0:01:15.093 --> 0:01:17.853 you know, just through you guys's love and the endurance 0:01:17.933 --> 0:01:20.693 of that love, how you guys are one. So it's 0:01:20.733 --> 0:01:22.573 really like we're interviewing one person, but. 0:01:24.693 --> 0:01:25.933 We received that one. 0:01:26.013 --> 0:01:26.333 Derek. 0:01:28.133 --> 0:01:30.253 Could you guys start and maybe just give us a 0:01:30.293 --> 0:01:34.013 little background how or of the two of you, and 0:01:34.053 --> 0:01:36.013 then how the two of you became one. 0:01:36.533 --> 0:01:40.253 Oh wow, I guess it will take us all the 0:01:40.293 --> 0:01:44.093 way back toneen ninety, nineteen eighty seven. Where we met 0:01:44.173 --> 0:01:47.173 is a high school sweethearts through a mutual friend of ours. 0:01:47.453 --> 0:01:49.453 Now depends on which one of us you ask this 0:01:49.493 --> 0:01:52.053 particular question as far as the answer that you get, 0:01:52.253 --> 0:01:54.853 because there's my version as to how we met, and 0:01:54.893 --> 0:01:57.613 then of course there's Fox's version as to how it 0:01:57.653 --> 0:01:58.973 is right the truth. 0:01:59.013 --> 0:02:00.253 None is care. 0:02:01.853 --> 0:02:06.493 So, so I'm gonna give my my version. But the 0:02:06.613 --> 0:02:10.933 version that that I hold to is Uh that Fox 0:02:10.973 --> 0:02:13.413 and I met while she had a girlfriend of hers, 0:02:13.853 --> 0:02:16.333 Uh was shooting hooky from school. 0:02:16.013 --> 0:02:18.173 One day we were taking a mental health day. 0:02:19.053 --> 0:02:22.133 And that's her story. She's sticking to it. And uh 0:02:22.373 --> 0:02:24.853 on say on said mental health day. 0:02:25.093 --> 0:02:25.773 Uh. 0:02:26.093 --> 0:02:28.973 The mutual friend that we shared needed a ride home 0:02:29.013 --> 0:02:31.653 and knew that I was home visiting from arow from 0:02:31.693 --> 0:02:35.173 the from the military all leave went by to offer 0:02:35.253 --> 0:02:35.933 them a ride. 0:02:36.293 --> 0:02:37.533 Fox answered the door. 0:02:38.013 --> 0:02:40.853 Uh. From the moment she answered the door, something came 0:02:40.933 --> 0:02:43.653 over me that I think some people may uh call 0:02:43.773 --> 0:02:47.533 the keen to our love at first sight, So it 0:02:47.613 --> 0:02:49.413 was gonna take maybe the rest of the day in 0:02:49.493 --> 0:02:51.413 order for me to actually figure that part out and 0:02:51.493 --> 0:02:53.693 whether or not she had UH had me had me 0:02:53.773 --> 0:02:56.933 smitten in UH in such a way crazy enough, I 0:02:57.013 --> 0:02:59.533 ended up inviting my friend over. He came over with us, 0:02:59.893 --> 0:03:02.893 and then UH, long story short, he tried calling Fox 0:03:02.973 --> 0:03:06.173 later to no avail. And later on that night, I 0:03:06.213 --> 0:03:09.573 came back home realizing that I hadn't used the phone 0:03:09.653 --> 0:03:12.093 since the last time that a friend of mine made 0:03:12.133 --> 0:03:15.053 the phone called the Fox, and we had an old 0:03:15.093 --> 0:03:16.973 service that used to be in place back there called 0:03:17.013 --> 0:03:19.613 Start sixty nine, So I didn't Start sixty nine and 0:03:19.653 --> 0:03:22.613 then went right back to Fox's number, to which I 0:03:22.653 --> 0:03:25.973 started talking to him and she immediately stopped me and 0:03:26.013 --> 0:03:28.013 she says, wait a minute, She said, I thought that 0:03:28.093 --> 0:03:31.093 you were wonder as a man. Wanda is the mutual 0:03:31.173 --> 0:03:34.053 friend that I mentioned at the onset? Well, I said, well, 0:03:34.053 --> 0:03:36.013 no one and I just friends. She said, well, that's 0:03:36.053 --> 0:03:39.213 not what she told me. And I took the advantage 0:03:39.253 --> 0:03:41.573 of yet another service we used to have, called three Way. 0:03:41.933 --> 0:03:43.613 I said, well, won't we called all three way? That 0:03:43.693 --> 0:03:45.413 way we can hash all of this out. 0:03:45.613 --> 0:03:47.573 So she ended up calling it on three way, and 0:03:48.333 --> 0:03:51.053 probably about a few minutes into the into the conversation, 0:03:51.173 --> 0:03:55.053 I saw it in Wanda was continuously misrepresenting our relationships. 0:03:55.053 --> 0:03:57.533 So I cut in and I said, well, dam how 0:03:57.533 --> 0:03:59.133 do we get to this point? You know? 0:03:59.173 --> 0:04:01.573 Of course she was busted in the moment she conceded, 0:04:01.973 --> 0:04:06.493 and to say to say the least, there after Fox 0:04:06.533 --> 0:04:07.213 and I stayed home. 0:04:07.333 --> 0:04:09.173 I was at little was at that point, you know. 0:04:11.373 --> 0:04:15.493 But that was what nineteen eighty seven, And here we are, 0:04:15.533 --> 0:04:19.373 thirty six years later, twenty six years in matrimony, six 0:04:19.453 --> 0:04:22.733 sons that we have raised together after having served twenty 0:04:22.733 --> 0:04:26.453 one years as a formerly incarcerated couple in Louisiana before 0:04:26.493 --> 0:04:30.573 we received clemency from our governor in twenty and eighteen, 0:04:30.653 --> 0:04:33.693 and actually the only family in the state of Louisiana 0:04:34.013 --> 0:04:38.253 that received clemency out of over two thousand applicants in 0:04:38.333 --> 0:04:41.813 twenty and eighteen. So if that's not a comeback story 0:04:41.853 --> 0:04:43.533 for you, I just don't know what he is. 0:04:43.893 --> 0:04:46.853 So to answer your question, Darren, it was at that moment, 0:04:47.493 --> 0:04:51.053 after spending twenty one years separated and apart from one another, 0:04:51.613 --> 0:04:54.373 that Fox and Rob were born. It was a constant 0:04:54.373 --> 0:04:57.973 reminder to us to never do anything to our create 0:04:58.253 --> 0:05:00.373 that level of separation between us again. 0:05:00.733 --> 0:05:00.973 Hits. 0:05:01.013 --> 0:05:03.773 We spell our names as one Fox, A N D. 0:05:03.933 --> 0:05:08.093 Rob God like Paul to us all they all saw 0:05:08.213 --> 0:05:11.293 to Paul, it was a transformation moment. 0:05:11.013 --> 0:05:14.973 For us, you know, you know, coming from you talk 0:05:15.013 --> 0:05:19.653 about not wanting to create that separation ever again. And 0:05:20.373 --> 0:05:23.333 I feel like it's important to highlight how that separation 0:05:23.493 --> 0:05:26.933 came about because I feel like there are certain people 0:05:26.973 --> 0:05:30.013 in America that may see as somebody that may have 0:05:30.053 --> 0:05:33.453 committed a crime, and it's like, you know, they don't 0:05:33.533 --> 0:05:35.493 know the story behind it, they don't know the human 0:05:35.573 --> 0:05:40.253 experience behind it. Could you enlighten us on what may 0:05:40.293 --> 0:05:42.533 have led you to do what you had to do, Like, 0:05:42.533 --> 0:05:45.933 what was your human experience and your story that led 0:05:45.973 --> 0:05:47.973 you up to feel like that was a decision that 0:05:48.053 --> 0:05:50.173 you had to make just for your own life. 0:05:51.133 --> 0:05:53.253 Well, I think one I have to say thank you 0:05:53.293 --> 0:05:56.853 for explaining it is such. It was a human experience 0:05:56.933 --> 0:05:59.053 and as long as we keep living, we're going to 0:05:59.133 --> 0:06:03.013 have just those human experiences is what makes us human. 0:06:03.333 --> 0:06:05.053 And for us, after the six. 0:06:04.933 --> 0:06:07.813 Months of being married, Rob and I had launched our 0:06:07.853 --> 0:06:11.013 first business, had finally put our family together after ten 0:06:11.093 --> 0:06:13.133 years of dating off and own again. 0:06:13.493 --> 0:06:13.573 And. 0:06:15.093 --> 0:06:18.973 In the midst of launching our first business, our investor 0:06:19.013 --> 0:06:24.293 pulled out on us without without any type of answers. 0:06:23.853 --> 0:06:27.373 As to why or what changed or any of that. 0:06:27.733 --> 0:06:32.413 And we panicked between the investor pulling out on us 0:06:32.853 --> 0:06:36.133 the new home we had purchased as our first family home, 0:06:36.453 --> 0:06:40.013 we discovered it had a crack foundation and a bad 0:06:40.093 --> 0:06:40.693 leak in the. 0:06:40.693 --> 0:06:44.573 Roof, with the whole thicken edition of the house was faulty. 0:06:45.013 --> 0:06:45.133 Uh. 0:06:45.253 --> 0:06:47.333 In the midst of that, if that wasn't enough, the 0:06:47.413 --> 0:06:51.133 department that I was teaching in full time ended the 0:06:51.213 --> 0:06:54.053 division in which I was teaching, so I lost my job. 0:06:54.493 --> 0:06:57.333 And if that wasn't enough, our youngest son started having 0:06:57.413 --> 0:07:00.613 seizures that they couldn't diagnose, landing us with a ton 0:07:00.653 --> 0:07:04.133 of medical bills. And so, if there is a place 0:07:04.213 --> 0:07:06.773 in the life that is called the end of your rope, 0:07:07.413 --> 0:07:10.613 we found ourselves there in nineteen ninety seven. And when 0:07:10.613 --> 0:07:12.613 you're at the end of your rope, I think one 0:07:12.613 --> 0:07:16.933 of those things that holds us grounded is our moral compass. 0:07:17.213 --> 0:07:19.973 And depending on how far you go down that rabbit 0:07:20.013 --> 0:07:22.573 hole or how dark you allow things to get for you, 0:07:23.293 --> 0:07:26.253 Darren and Donnie, it depends on the decisions that you 0:07:26.373 --> 0:07:29.213 make at your lowest points. I've heard it said that 0:07:29.293 --> 0:07:33.373 circumstances don't reveal the man a woman, don't make the 0:07:33.413 --> 0:07:36.413 man a woman, They reveal them to themselves. And so 0:07:36.613 --> 0:07:41.573 in that moment, with our faith being tested, our moral 0:07:41.613 --> 0:07:43.773 compass got off and we figured if we couldn't get 0:07:43.773 --> 0:07:47.213 it the right way, we would succeed at any by 0:07:47.253 --> 0:07:51.933 any means necessary. And it was that mentality of what 0:07:52.013 --> 0:07:55.213 we call the American dream syndrome, when you're willing to 0:07:55.293 --> 0:07:58.053 do whatever you got to do to succeed or to 0:07:58.093 --> 0:08:02.693 obtain the American dream. It took over us and landed 0:08:02.773 --> 0:08:05.813 us to making a decision that we would end up 0:08:05.813 --> 0:08:09.653 regretting for the rest of our lives. So, in nineteen 0:08:09.693 --> 0:08:12.933 ninety seven would facebook financial challenges to spill it all 0:08:12.973 --> 0:08:16.293 out for you. We tried to regain financial solvency by 0:08:16.293 --> 0:08:17.893 taking money from a credit union. 0:08:19.733 --> 0:08:23.893 I've heard you use the quote desperate people do desperate things, 0:08:24.533 --> 0:08:26.933 and I could relate so much to that, and Darren 0:08:26.973 --> 0:08:31.253 and ize our backgrounds come from addiction and we're currently 0:08:31.253 --> 0:08:34.773 in recovery. And when I heard that quote from you Fox, 0:08:35.053 --> 0:08:38.013 it just made me think about all of the desperate 0:08:38.053 --> 0:08:41.533 things that I did in the depths of my addiction, 0:08:41.733 --> 0:08:44.773 and in so many cases just really didn't get caught, 0:08:46.453 --> 0:08:48.853 or if I did get caught, the consequences it just 0:08:48.933 --> 0:08:51.533 it's looked it looked different. But I can relate so 0:08:51.693 --> 0:08:55.173 much because at my rock bottom, I mean, the decisions 0:08:55.413 --> 0:08:59.173 that I was making were out of complete desperation and 0:08:59.213 --> 0:09:01.173 they were not wise decisions at all. 0:09:02.133 --> 0:09:04.773 But I think that's where the power lies, isn't it. 0:09:04.933 --> 0:09:07.533 I Mean, when we hit rock bottom, like Rob and 0:09:07.573 --> 0:09:09.773 I have a quote where we say one thing about 0:09:09.893 --> 0:09:12.453 rock bottom is once you reach it is nowhere to 0:09:12.493 --> 0:09:13.613 go from the butt up. 0:09:17.213 --> 0:09:20.413 I mean, you know, like Donnie said, as being a 0:09:20.413 --> 0:09:24.093 former addict and talking about that human experience, I always 0:09:24.093 --> 0:09:27.053 try to let people know and inform them that I 0:09:27.093 --> 0:09:29.413 didn't just want to become a drug addict just because 0:09:29.413 --> 0:09:31.493 I wanted to run my life into the ground, or 0:09:31.533 --> 0:09:34.453 I wanted to make poor decisions, or I wanted to 0:09:35.373 --> 0:09:37.773 have this be my legacy. I was just somebody that 0:09:38.053 --> 0:09:40.733 wanted to change my circumstance, wanted to change how I 0:09:40.773 --> 0:09:45.213 was feeling, and ultimately those small decisions lead to a 0:09:45.253 --> 0:09:47.373 place where yeah, your moral compass is off. But at 0:09:47.413 --> 0:09:49.813 the end of the day, it's about trying to get 0:09:50.053 --> 0:09:53.693 people to see people like us as people and not 0:09:53.853 --> 0:09:57.453 as our mess because our mess may be where we're 0:09:57.493 --> 0:10:00.333 currently at, but that's not who we ultimately are. 0:10:00.973 --> 0:10:02.293 And let's try. 0:10:02.573 --> 0:10:04.933 That's a message that we have to keep pushing because 0:10:05.613 --> 0:10:09.053 it's so easy to just stereotype somebody or you see 0:10:09.093 --> 0:10:10.773 something go across the TV and be like, oh man, 0:10:10.933 --> 0:10:13.013 what was he doing, Like he's tripping, Like why would 0:10:13.013 --> 0:10:16.373 he make that decision? But it's way more uncomfortable to 0:10:16.453 --> 0:10:19.613 get into sit down with that person, sit across from them, 0:10:19.733 --> 0:10:22.133 talk to them, get to know them, and see like, hey, 0:10:22.133 --> 0:10:24.293 we all people that are really just trying to you know, 0:10:24.653 --> 0:10:28.133 that's right, avoid our fear, get over our fears, you know, 0:10:28.173 --> 0:10:30.133 step into a life that we want to live and 0:10:30.173 --> 0:10:32.893 provide and protect and all these things. We all have 0:10:32.933 --> 0:10:34.733 the same goals and we all have the same heart 0:10:34.773 --> 0:10:36.213 posture at the end of the day if we can 0:10:36.413 --> 0:10:37.453 allow ourselves to get there. 0:10:38.613 --> 0:10:41.973 I like that heart posture so true. 0:10:42.573 --> 0:10:47.133 So can you walk us through what the sentence scene was, 0:10:47.533 --> 0:10:51.293 what the criminal system looked like back then? And then 0:10:51.333 --> 0:10:53.213 what came up for the both of you as you 0:10:53.253 --> 0:10:55.133 were faced with that sentence. 0:10:57.333 --> 0:11:00.013 I think it's important to know for people that are 0:11:00.053 --> 0:11:02.533 listening in that the time that I was sentenced was 0:11:02.613 --> 0:11:06.253 nineteen ninety seven, and this was just at the point 0:11:06.333 --> 0:11:09.613 that the Clinton Crime Bill that kicked in. At that moment, 0:11:10.253 --> 0:11:12.733 the Clinton Crime Bill created a thing called Truth and 0:11:12.853 --> 0:11:17.533 Sentencing that required states who received federal funding from the 0:11:17.573 --> 0:11:21.933 federal government to sentence people are convicted of crimes to 0:11:21.973 --> 0:11:24.813 serve out. Eighty five percent of the Senates that had 0:11:24.853 --> 0:11:27.933 been handed handed doubt as a result of those moneys 0:11:27.973 --> 0:11:31.693 that states had taken for you know, people are committing crimes. 0:11:32.293 --> 0:11:35.133 With that being said, I've received, as a first offender 0:11:35.253 --> 0:11:38.693 a sixty year sentence, my nephew received a forty five 0:11:38.773 --> 0:11:41.853 year sentence, and my wife to seven year sentences and 0:11:41.933 --> 0:11:46.773 a five year sentence, you know, all as first offenders 0:11:47.293 --> 0:11:51.733 in a crime that no one received. No one died 0:11:51.773 --> 0:11:55.413 from the crime, no one was hurt physically hurt from 0:11:55.493 --> 0:11:57.853 the crime in any and by no stretch of the 0:11:57.893 --> 0:12:02.773 imagination do I b rate the trauma that takes place 0:12:02.813 --> 0:12:07.013 when someone takes something of value from you, whether by note, 0:12:07.053 --> 0:12:10.573 by firearm or whatever it may be. Uh, the fact 0:12:10.613 --> 0:12:13.013 still remains is that it's a traumatic moment for you. 0:12:13.693 --> 0:12:16.333 But what was equally as traumatic for us on the 0:12:16.373 --> 0:12:20.693 other side of that was the the heavy sanctions that 0:12:20.773 --> 0:12:23.613 had been handed out to us, especially when he kind 0:12:23.613 --> 0:12:25.733 of looked out over the landscape as far as what 0:12:25.893 --> 0:12:30.813 the national average was for people committing similar acts, as 0:12:30.853 --> 0:12:34.373 well as a parish average for the parish where the 0:12:34.533 --> 0:12:36.373 where the crimes themselves were committed. 0:12:36.813 --> 0:12:39.573 Uh So, these sentences were really. 0:12:40.653 --> 0:12:44.413 Outside of the social norms for what had been happening, 0:12:44.453 --> 0:12:46.853 both in the nation as well as in the in the. 0:12:46.813 --> 0:12:48.093 Parish that had happened there. 0:12:48.413 --> 0:12:51.333 Uh So to say that we were bewildered, uh that 0:12:51.413 --> 0:12:52.533 we were flabbergacied. 0:12:52.613 --> 0:12:53.373 We were floored. 0:12:54.813 --> 0:12:57.693 Man we uh we we I thought for sure that 0:12:57.773 --> 0:13:02.213 maybe he was reading from someone else's sentencing transcript uh 0:13:02.293 --> 0:13:05.053 in our particular matter. But it wasn't until we got 0:13:05.053 --> 0:13:07.653 the paperwork ourselves and we realized that, okay, there was 0:13:07.693 --> 0:13:11.333 no mistake made here. This was just flat out injustice, 0:13:11.413 --> 0:13:14.413 you know, at a whole other level. So all probably 0:13:14.573 --> 0:13:17.973 their end began began our fight of coour. 0:13:19.413 --> 0:13:22.573 So Fox, I like to know when at what point 0:13:22.813 --> 0:13:27.693 did it go from Okay, like this is unacceptable, this 0:13:27.773 --> 0:13:32.093 needs to change, to you wanting to step in and 0:13:32.093 --> 0:13:33.973 be like, okay, like I'm gonna do something about this, 0:13:34.053 --> 0:13:37.293 or I'm gonna do my part in seeing change come about. 0:13:38.773 --> 0:13:40.813 Probably the first night I went to prison. 0:13:42.413 --> 0:13:44.413 It was one thing to be housed in the in 0:13:44.533 --> 0:13:48.373 the jail in the parish, but when I actually was 0:13:48.853 --> 0:13:52.773 remanded to the Department of Justice for me, it was 0:13:52.853 --> 0:13:55.733 in that moment of seeing how they were, how we're 0:13:55.813 --> 0:13:59.013 housing human beings, and how it was that. 0:14:01.373 --> 0:14:01.973 Man just the. 0:14:01.933 --> 0:14:07.373 Deplorable conditions that they had US citizens living in state side, 0:14:07.493 --> 0:14:10.613 not in a third world country, and the treatment of 0:14:10.653 --> 0:14:14.653 those human beings. And I honestly thought that as an 0:14:14.653 --> 0:14:19.093 American citizen, when we were casting our citizens into incarceration, 0:14:19.613 --> 0:14:22.173 that we were doing so to rehabilitate them and make 0:14:22.213 --> 0:14:25.093 them come out better citizens like they do in other 0:14:25.253 --> 0:14:26.813 industrialized nations. 0:14:27.053 --> 0:14:29.413 But I did not realize how. 0:14:29.613 --> 0:14:34.693 In entrench slavery still is currently in the United States, 0:14:34.773 --> 0:14:38.693 and that our prison system is a slave system by 0:14:38.733 --> 0:14:42.733 a new name. And so my prayer when I got 0:14:42.773 --> 0:14:45.613 to prison was Lord, just let me use my voice 0:14:46.493 --> 0:14:47.973 for the voiceless. 0:14:47.413 --> 0:14:49.773 That are here. I had a master's degree by. 0:14:49.613 --> 0:14:54.573 The time I went to prison, and what I learned 0:14:54.653 --> 0:14:57.573 while I was there was I met the first adult 0:14:57.733 --> 0:15:00.893 in my life that could not read or write. And 0:15:00.973 --> 0:15:03.773 not was it just one, it was many of them 0:15:04.573 --> 0:15:09.373 striving to get just a literacy education in jail, in prison, 0:15:10.173 --> 0:15:14.253 less and lonely, a ged while they were incarcerated. And 0:15:14.333 --> 0:15:17.533 so I understood that I had a responsibility, that maybe 0:15:17.693 --> 0:15:20.413 it wasn't just my action or me losing my moral 0:15:20.533 --> 0:15:24.413 compass that got me here, but that I could use 0:15:24.533 --> 0:15:27.653 this for the greater good of mankind and take my 0:15:27.773 --> 0:15:33.413 transgressions and transform them to really become a voice for 0:15:33.493 --> 0:15:36.413 the voiceless Darren, because we've all got a calling. And 0:15:36.533 --> 0:15:39.813 sometimes we can let our downfalls in life be our 0:15:39.893 --> 0:15:42.453 kid falls and we stay there, or we can let 0:15:42.453 --> 0:15:44.973 them be our springboards for the work that was supposed 0:15:45.013 --> 0:15:45.333 to do. 0:15:45.293 --> 0:15:45.933 In this life. 0:15:46.173 --> 0:15:48.653 And that's what Rob and I and our entire family, 0:15:48.893 --> 0:15:53.373 our six sons, they bought in as well, to understand 0:15:53.373 --> 0:15:55.973 that this system had done an injustice to our family. 0:15:56.133 --> 0:16:00.053 Certainly we deserved to be chastised for our transgressions, but 0:16:00.133 --> 0:16:03.733 we did not deserve the treatment that our state sanctioned 0:16:03.773 --> 0:16:07.813 against us. And sometimes when these systems don't do right 0:16:07.893 --> 0:16:12.293 by the people it represents, it is the people's responsibility. 0:16:12.413 --> 0:16:15.533 It is our duty to address the system. 0:16:15.813 --> 0:16:18.773 It is our duty to fight for our freedom, brother dere, 0:16:19.493 --> 0:16:22.773 it is our duty to win. And so we set 0:16:22.813 --> 0:16:25.293 out to win. We set out to show them that 0:16:25.413 --> 0:16:27.933 you do this to me. Then, as I say in 0:16:28.013 --> 0:16:30.693 Time movie, if you haven't seen it, check it out 0:16:30.733 --> 0:16:34.973 on Amazon Prime. Nominated for an Oscar in twenty twenty one, 0:16:35.053 --> 0:16:39.253 the most honored documentary of twenty twenty and that is. 0:16:39.213 --> 0:16:41.093 I say, success is the best revenge. 0:16:41.413 --> 0:16:43.173 How do we get back in a system that was 0:16:43.213 --> 0:16:46.693 intentional about destroying us and our family? 0:16:46.933 --> 0:16:48.093 We succeed anyway. 0:16:48.973 --> 0:16:51.533 Rob, I've heard you say. So you're faced with this 0:16:51.693 --> 0:16:54.053 sentence and you say, if I'm going to get through this, 0:16:54.413 --> 0:16:56.493 I'm going to have to use some of those core 0:16:56.613 --> 0:17:00.853 principles that you know to be true. What were those 0:17:00.933 --> 0:17:05.013 core principles for you that you had to put into 0:17:05.053 --> 0:17:07.173 practice when you were incarcerated. 0:17:08.213 --> 0:17:10.933 Probably some of the ones that stand out most was 0:17:11.293 --> 0:17:15.533 from a from my uncle. Uh yeah, given me some 0:17:15.533 --> 0:17:18.853 some rules to live by when I first went off 0:17:18.853 --> 0:17:23.253 to prison. And those rules are basically consistent of For one, 0:17:23.813 --> 0:17:25.533 I knew that I had to I had to stand 0:17:25.573 --> 0:17:26.053 like a man. 0:17:26.613 --> 0:17:26.773 Uh. 0:17:26.813 --> 0:17:28.893 I knew that I had to speak truth to uh 0:17:28.973 --> 0:17:29.773 to falsehood. 0:17:30.173 --> 0:17:32.453 And I knew that if I was ever going to 0:17:32.493 --> 0:17:34.373 get through this, I knew that in order for me 0:17:34.413 --> 0:17:36.373 to get through it, I had to come into it 0:17:36.453 --> 0:17:38.373 with an attitude that I would never give up, that 0:17:38.413 --> 0:17:42.613 I would not allow uh defeat UH to be to 0:17:42.653 --> 0:17:45.213 be the end uh the end result of my fight. 0:17:45.693 --> 0:17:45.973 UH. 0:17:46.013 --> 0:17:48.213 So it means that I had to fight tooth and nail. 0:17:48.293 --> 0:17:51.453 And so with that being said, I started, you know, 0:17:51.573 --> 0:17:54.373 redirecting my energy. 0:17:54.573 --> 0:17:54.693 Uh. 0:17:54.693 --> 0:17:56.493 I started redirecting my thoughts. 0:17:56.973 --> 0:17:57.093 Uh. 0:17:57.253 --> 0:18:00.773 I started learning how to read the law because you know, 0:18:00.813 --> 0:18:03.693 one of the things that you realize is that when 0:18:03.693 --> 0:18:05.613 you're in a fight, no was gonna fight as hard 0:18:05.653 --> 0:18:07.613 for you as you're willing to fight for yourself. 0:18:08.133 --> 0:18:08.413 Uh. 0:18:08.453 --> 0:18:11.013 And with that being said, I knew that it wasn't 0:18:11.053 --> 0:18:13.653 necessarily gonna be a lawyer that was gonna get me out, 0:18:13.693 --> 0:18:15.573 because at the end of the day, lawyers go home 0:18:15.613 --> 0:18:18.893 and they go to soccer meetings and pta meetings with 0:18:18.933 --> 0:18:21.253 their kids, and they hang out with their wives and 0:18:21.293 --> 0:18:23.853 their friends. You know, between work hours and those things. 0:18:23.853 --> 0:18:26.293 And I'm not on their mind me or none of 0:18:26.293 --> 0:18:30.133 their other clients. But for me, uh and our family, 0:18:30.173 --> 0:18:34.533 you know, we breathe, we sleep out, we we ate, 0:18:34.693 --> 0:18:40.053 we walked, we talked law all day long. And it 0:18:40.093 --> 0:18:44.373 wasn't until I started practicing law or learning law on 0:18:44.413 --> 0:18:47.133 my own that I even started to see breakthroughs in 0:18:47.173 --> 0:18:50.533 my case. And that was after countless lawyers and and 0:18:50.613 --> 0:18:54.373 uh and oh man, thousands to my tens of thousands 0:18:54.373 --> 0:18:58.093 of dollars that had been spent, All lawyers that you know, 0:18:58.173 --> 0:19:00.973 that had no clue as to how it is that 0:19:01.013 --> 0:19:03.613 they were going to get me out. Uh, let alone 0:19:04.213 --> 0:19:07.453 the fol of representation, you know, like cars and like 0:19:07.533 --> 0:19:09.613 medicine and those kinds of things. You come to find 0:19:09.613 --> 0:19:12.013 out that there are people that are specialized. People that 0:19:12.053 --> 0:19:13.933 know how to work on engines, don't necessarily know how 0:19:13.973 --> 0:19:16.813 to work on breaks. Those work on breaks don't necessarily 0:19:16.853 --> 0:19:20.933 know how to work Transition doctors all don't work on brains. 0:19:20.933 --> 0:19:22.813 They are not all heart surgeons, you know, and some 0:19:22.893 --> 0:19:25.973 of them are just general practitioners. Well, in a lot 0:19:26.013 --> 0:19:29.093 of this, I realized that a lot of lawyers, you know, 0:19:29.133 --> 0:19:31.013 when you talk about your pre trial lawyers. 0:19:31.013 --> 0:19:33.613 Most of them are general practitioners of the field. 0:19:34.133 --> 0:19:35.973 They do a lot of deal cutting and that kind 0:19:36.013 --> 0:19:38.813 of stuff that happens on the front end of sentencings. 0:19:38.853 --> 0:19:40.973 But what I was in need of was a special 0:19:41.133 --> 0:19:44.693 was a specialist, and specialists in this particular field are 0:19:44.693 --> 0:19:45.733 hard to find. 0:19:46.173 --> 0:19:47.093 When you start. 0:19:46.973 --> 0:19:49.693 Studying case law on those things, you start realizing that 0:19:49.733 --> 0:19:53.413 the specialists is the person that's locked up. You know, 0:19:53.533 --> 0:19:57.733 you think about precedents and laws that change, that change 0:19:57.733 --> 0:20:00.573 the momentum or the direction of where we go in 0:20:00.653 --> 0:20:03.773 terms of how the pendulum of justice swings. It doesn't 0:20:03.773 --> 0:20:05.693 happen as a result out of an argument that took 0:20:05.693 --> 0:20:08.533 place that some fancy lawyer made. 0:20:08.333 --> 0:20:09.653 Inside of the court system. 0:20:09.973 --> 0:20:12.853 It happens from some jail house attorney that set up 0:20:14.093 --> 0:20:16.453 in the wee hours of the night on the poor lighting, 0:20:16.933 --> 0:20:19.853 that read between the lines where the right was not 0:20:19.933 --> 0:20:23.733 necessarily written in order to you know, carve out an. 0:20:23.773 --> 0:20:27.213 Argument for fundamental justice and uh, and they. 0:20:27.173 --> 0:20:29.693 Prevailed on those matters, and as a result, we get 0:20:29.733 --> 0:20:31.333 a change, or we get to a bend at our 0:20:31.413 --> 0:20:33.133 laws that you know, kind of move us in a 0:20:33.173 --> 0:20:36.653 different direction. And that didn't start happening for me and 0:20:36.773 --> 0:20:40.533 my family until I started to take responsibility for the 0:20:40.573 --> 0:20:44.133 situation that I had put myself in through my own choices. 0:20:47.653 --> 0:20:49.973 For real, No, for real, man, I think it's beautiful 0:20:50.093 --> 0:20:54.973