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Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never told You from how stupp

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Caroline and I'm Kristen. Um. I was contemplating my forehead

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Speaker 1: wrinkles this morning as we were preparing to come into

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Speaker 1: the studio to record this episode, because they are intense.

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Speaker 1: I'm wearing bangs today, so Kristen's just looking at my

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Speaker 1: bangs right now. I was about to say I can't

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Speaker 1: comment because I mean, your bangs look great, thank you,

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Speaker 1: thank you. I'm getting them trimmed tomorrow actually, because I'm

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Speaker 1: starting to not be able to see. But they hide

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Speaker 1: a dark secret, and that is that I have intense

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Speaker 1: forehead wrinkles. And part of this issue is that I

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Speaker 1: tend to make faces, and I tend not to know

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Speaker 1: how um strong and apparent my facial expressions are until

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Speaker 1: I'm in a meeting and people are like, oh, why

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Speaker 1: don't you tell it's what you think, because I've clearly

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Speaker 1: made a face that's like, oh, this is insane. Uh yeah.

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Speaker 1: And so in the course of this research, I've discovered

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Speaker 1: that repetitive facial expressions can contribute to wrinkles. And there's

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Speaker 1: all sorts of factors in terms of what gives you

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Speaker 1: wrinkles when you get them, how bad and severe they're

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Speaker 1: going to be. Um, I don't I don't say bad

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Speaker 1: because some people might love their wrinkles. I am not

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Speaker 1: a fan of my forehead wrinkles. I have considered botox, Kristen.

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Speaker 1: But here's the thing. I love moving my eyebrows too much. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the source of my power lies in my eyebrow expressions. Well,

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Speaker 1: and you can just keep rocking bangs? Yeah, why why

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Speaker 1: botox when you can bang? Can that that's going to

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Speaker 1: be our new or new thing? There we go? Well,

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Speaker 1: thanks or no, thanks to this research. I've had a

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Speaker 1: little trouble getting to sleep the past couple of days

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Speaker 1: because some of the articles that we read, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about how sleeping on your stomach and sleeping with your

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Speaker 1: face directly against your sheets, unless they're silk sheets, can

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Speaker 1: also lead to wrinkles because you stay in that position

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Speaker 1: all night. And I am a stomach sleeper to the max.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, I got up in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the night and when I got back into bed, it

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Speaker 1: was the first thing that I thought of as I

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Speaker 1: rolled over to get on my stomach in my like

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Speaker 1: weird burrito pillow over my head position that I prefer.

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Speaker 1: And it took me a little extra time to put

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Speaker 1: podcasts research out of my brain, and that is a hazard. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is, Well, you know, hearing about our wrinkle worries,

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Speaker 1: it's it's nothing new. We we've heard our mothers and

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Speaker 1: our grandmother's stress about their wrinkles. Well, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: maybe you haven't, I have, um, but this is some

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Speaker 1: thing that people have worried about and struggled with forever.

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Speaker 1: And this is gonna be one of those sminty episodes

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Speaker 1: where we do take it back to ancient Egypt and

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Speaker 1: ancient Greece and then we get to talk about the

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Speaker 1: Victorians too. But in response to that one listener who

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Speaker 1: months ago was teasing us about jumping from ancient Egypt

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Speaker 1: to the Victorians all the time, which we do because

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Speaker 1: those are our favorite people. There, there is a little

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Speaker 1: bit of stuff in between. Yeah, and really quickly, I

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Speaker 1: want to know that, Uh, I don't know that I

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Speaker 1: so much worry about my wrinkles as I worry about

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Speaker 1: worrying about my wrinkles, because I don't want to worry

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Speaker 1: about my wrinkles, Caroline. I don't want to care. I

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Speaker 1: want to accept my crow's feet and laugh lines and

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Speaker 1: not buy into all the marketing that we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about in the second half of the podcast. Um,

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Speaker 1: but one thing that is unabashedly delightful and all of

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Speaker 1: this are the lengths that we have gone to, especially

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Speaker 1: we wim men, have gone to to avoid and erase

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Speaker 1: wrinkles throughout time, oh forever. And I mean it's it's wrinkles,

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Speaker 1: it's aging. I mean, it's that fear of getting old

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Speaker 1: and dying. But it's more than that, it's the fear

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Speaker 1: of just appearing to get older. Yeah, I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: the whole longstanding patriarchal cultural issue of women being valued

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Speaker 1: for youth and fertility and youthful beauty especially well, so

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Speaker 1: let's dive into this timeline. A lot of it's coming

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Speaker 1: from both Marie Claire and into the Gloss, in addition

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Speaker 1: to a couple other sources. But let's travel back to

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Speaker 1: ancient Egypt. There were a lot of women who underwent

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Speaker 1: this super time intensive process to create oil out of

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Speaker 1: fine you Greek, which then they'd rub all over themselves

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Speaker 1: to try to keep themselves moisturized and glistening and wrinkle free,

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Speaker 1: and Cleopatra allegedly bathed in the milk of hundreds of

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Speaker 1: donkeys because I guess when you're Cleopatra you can do that.

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Speaker 1: You can have people go milks and donkeys. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure she smelled great, um, but you know she was

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Speaker 1: onto something because people the alpha hydroxy acids in milk

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Speaker 1: do actually have skin softening and potentially anti aging properties.

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Speaker 1: Like when you read about you know, there's so many

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Speaker 1: wrinkle treatments out there that don't work. They they're basically

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Speaker 1: snake oil. Alpha hydroxy acids are mentioned over and over

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Speaker 1: again is something that actually can help you fight physical

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Speaker 1: signs of aging. Now you say it's snake oil, but

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Speaker 1: if it's a Greek oil, then might it work. Possibly

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Speaker 1: if there we go, well, then if we jump to

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Speaker 1: the Greeks and Romans, they would mix mud and crocodile poop,

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Speaker 1: proving that you will do anything to fix your wrinkles

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Speaker 1: sometimes and in the Tang dynasty era in China, Empress

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Speaker 1: Wuzeschian created fairy powder so called fairy powder out of

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Speaker 1: mother Wart, which is an urban the mint family that's

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Speaker 1: also been you to treat and prevent uterine infections, so

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Speaker 1: it's multi purpose. Now, the next person we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about probably has the most intensive supposed uh skin

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Speaker 1: regimen that I've ever heard of. Yeah. Uh. Sixteenth century

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Speaker 1: Hungarian countess and serial killer Elizabeth Bathory Douix said supposedly

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Speaker 1: coded herself in the blood of hundreds of virgins. And

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Speaker 1: I say coded herself, not bathed in, because in the

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Speaker 1: comments under one of these articles talking about historical wrinkle treatments,

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Speaker 1: somebody was like, hello, in the time it would take

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Speaker 1: to bleed out hundreds of virgins, the blood would have

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Speaker 1: like clumped up and coagulated, and I'm like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: this is gross. So I think the more accurate phrase

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Speaker 1: would be to say that she coded herself in blood.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, this is a thing like Kim Kardashian

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Speaker 1: posted a photo of freaking social media getting a vampire

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Speaker 1: facial where they like, use your own blood and something

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Speaker 1: to like coat your face to use anti aging properties. Supposedly,

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Speaker 1: I'm horrified. Well, I super appreciate Mary, Queen of Scott's

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Speaker 1: bathing in white wine, which was said to improve complexion

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Speaker 1: and have antiseptic properties. And you know, if you want

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Speaker 1: to just relax, take a little sip of your bath

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Speaker 1: and there you go. Turn on some real housewives. Get

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Speaker 1: a real long crazy straw as you're sitting in the

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Speaker 1: tub human soup. Um. Well, Empress CC of Austria used

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Speaker 1: a cream that was a mix of spermacetti which n

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Speaker 1: b D. It's just the oil and the whale's head

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Speaker 1: U sweet almond oil and rose water on her face.

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Speaker 1: Where would she get the oil from a whale's head.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure her pet whale. Yeah, I mean, I guess

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Speaker 1: when you're an empress again, kind of like Leopatra and

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Speaker 1: her monkeys, right exactly. But don't worry, um, if you're

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Speaker 1: not into sper massetti and killing whales, you can just

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Speaker 1: use a mix like CC did of raw veal and

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Speaker 1: strawberries underneath the leather mast which sounds like she just puts,

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Speaker 1: which just sounds like a fancy cevich a, and then

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Speaker 1: get some tortilla chips. If you get your white wine

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Speaker 1: bath and your cevich a mask and cortina chips, I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you what you got it. You got yourself an afternoon.

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Speaker 1: I'm laughing, but I do honestly think it is fascinating

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Speaker 1: what people have done and still do in an effort

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Speaker 1: to retain a youthful appearance. And this leads us into

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Speaker 1: my favorite people, the Victorians. One of their tricks of

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Speaker 1: the trade was to use mercury to get rid of

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Speaker 1: wrinkles and blemishes. And it works. Is it destroys your skin,

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Speaker 1: It like peels it off and then it kills you.

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Speaker 1: So good job Victorians. Maybe they were like, well, at

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Speaker 1: least we'll go before you know. A lot of wrinkles

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Speaker 1: set in well, young um in the late eighteen hundreds, though,

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Speaker 1: the syringe is invented, and once we got the syringe,

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Speaker 1: we started deciding to try to fill the wrinkles on

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Speaker 1: our face with stuff such as paraffin ad idea. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is when we get the first chemicals being used

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Speaker 1: for face augmentation. Allah old school botox and paraffin was

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Speaker 1: the first one they used. And a German doctor was

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Speaker 1: the first person to take someone's own fat and injected

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Speaker 1: into their face to quote unquote correct quote unquote defects. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, early on medicine getting involved in the beauty market.

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Speaker 1: I just love that people were like, oh, we bet

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Speaker 1: a syringe, like, let's go wild with it. Well, we

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Speaker 1: can't forget Madam Rawley's toilet mask or face glove, which

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Speaker 1: horrifyingly much like CC's leather mask, you would strap to

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Speaker 1: your face and then sleep in. And according to the

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Speaker 1: advertisement that we looked at uh famous society ladies, actresses, bells,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. Use it. That's a quote, Bells, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: Are we the etcetera? Yeah, we're the we're podcasters. And

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Speaker 1: they also said, in order to convince you it is

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Speaker 1: recommended by imminent physicians and scientific men. Well, if men say,

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Speaker 1: it's okay, scientific men, Kristen. But I think my favorite

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Speaker 1: product out of all of these was developed in nine

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Speaker 1: by stage mom Margaret Crayson, who discovered that her daughter Alice,

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Speaker 1: who was a concert pianist, had developed frown lines from

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Speaker 1: staring at her sheet music, or at least so she

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Speaker 1: thought so. She developed in cardboard triangles that could be

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Speaker 1: glued over wrinkle prone areas overnight to smooth out those

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Speaker 1: creases and prevent your facial muscles from scrunching while you slept,

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Speaker 1: because I guess you grimace in your dreams. And they

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Speaker 1: were called frownies. Yeah I need these, and they still

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Speaker 1: make them. Frownies are on the market in and I

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Speaker 1: need them because here's the thing my mother and I

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Speaker 1: share are really unfortunate trait, and that as we frown

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Speaker 1: in our sleep. How do you know this? I just

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Speaker 1: told you. Okay, okay, So Exhibit A. When I was

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Speaker 1: home for Christmas, my mom has a tendency to fall

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Speaker 1: asleep in her chair. So I'm like on my laptop

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Speaker 1: and I look up and my mother is asleep, but

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Speaker 1: she's got her face all scrunched up, and she's like,

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Speaker 1: she's got a deep frown going on in the line

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Speaker 1: between the eyes her knit brow. Um. I fell asleep

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Speaker 1: in eighth grade Civics cloud us one time, leaning up

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Speaker 1: against the wall, and a friend of mine woke me

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Speaker 1: up and was like, are you upset? What's And I

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Speaker 1: was like, I'm asleep, what's going on? Sorry? My teacher

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Speaker 1: in eighth grade? Uh, And she was like, look, you're

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Speaker 1: like frowning. You look so pissed. That's Exhibit B. Exhibit

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Speaker 1: See the other morning, when I was contemplating my forehead wrinkles,

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Speaker 1: I was also also contemplating the lines between my eyebrows,

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Speaker 1: because I clearly like, I'm really concerned about things in

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Speaker 1: my sleep. Oh yeah, I have a huge furrow between

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Speaker 1: my between my eyebrows. I just it adds character. We're

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Speaker 1: working out problems in her sleep, that's fine. No, mine

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Speaker 1: is definitely from during my wakeful hours. Uh, either nervously

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Speaker 1: knitting my brows or scowling. Um. But Caroline, I really

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Speaker 1: hope that you have Amazon primed yourself some frownies. I will,

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Speaker 1: I need to. It'll be great. And then, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: we could think of all of the social media fun

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Speaker 1: we can have. Sorry, I'm just getting off track, or

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Speaker 1: even big frowning. Why now and then? But another resource

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Speaker 1: that I think would be helpful for us and our

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Speaker 1: listeners to pick up would be the Ladies Dressing Room

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Speaker 1: and eight book by Baroness Staff, which has a lot

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Speaker 1: of advice that sounds remarkably like stuff you'd see on

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Speaker 1: today's beauty blogs. It's it's everything, it's it's everything about

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Speaker 1: your appearance that you could possibly think of. But there

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Speaker 1: is a specific wrinkle section with lots of advice to

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Speaker 1: watch those facial expressions Ladies. She writes, there would be

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Speaker 1: fewer wrinkles if people would correct themselves of certain bad habits.

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Speaker 1: She lists repeated frowning, lifting the eyebrows at every movement

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Speaker 1: for nothing at all, stereotyped artificial smiles, and watch out

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Speaker 1: readers sitting up late at night reading novels is infallible

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Speaker 1: for drawing that terrible network of crow's feet around the eyes,

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Speaker 1: which disfigure was the prettiest face. Well, you know what,

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Speaker 1: Baroness staff, you know what I have to say to her.

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Speaker 1: She's also racist because in her beauty advice she also

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Speaker 1: talked about how white skin is the only attractive skin

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Speaker 1: out there. There were problems there, there were some issues.

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Speaker 1: Eight three was not the most progressive time for white

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Speaker 1: Baroness is out there. Um, But her flagrant racism aside.

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Speaker 1: She did have some tips for washing your face. Apparently

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Speaker 1: I've been washing my face all wrong because I just, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, do it all at once and swished my

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Speaker 1: hands all around my face, which I think I have

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Speaker 1: a problem now that I say it out loud. Um.

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Speaker 1: She suggests washing your face from the bottom up and

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Speaker 1: wash your eyes from the temple to the nose, and

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Speaker 1: then just missed with water. Yeah, if you're in a

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Speaker 1: dry environment, missed your face with water for an extended

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Speaker 1: period of time, Like some of the millionaires in New

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Speaker 1: York whose skins suffer from overheated rooms. Okay, but this

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Speaker 1: also reminds me of those beauty sections in women's magazines

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Speaker 1: that they offer like beauty regimens for celebrities and women

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Speaker 1: who travel all the time. And I forget which celebrity

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Speaker 1: it was, but she was talking about how her trick

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Speaker 1: when she is on a plane is to miss her

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Speaker 1: face because of the recycled dry air and the plane.

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Speaker 1: I see that all the time in those women's magazines,

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Speaker 1: and I mean they still sell all types of face

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Speaker 1: missing water in stores. Uh. You should also try sacrifices,

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Speaker 1: according to Lady Staff, be like the one lady that

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Speaker 1: she talks about, and you just stay in bed all

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Speaker 1: day until you feel better and your creases have relaxed.

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Speaker 1: I love that rather than frowning, if something is getting

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Speaker 1: you down, don't frown, get in bed until it goes away.

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Speaker 1: But she does allow a few laugh induced Yes, is

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Speaker 1: because she says it's better to have one wrinkle more

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Speaker 1: and acquire a good quality than a smooth forehead and

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Speaker 1: the faults of a child. That being said, she urges

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Speaker 1: a little rest for the face four or five times

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Speaker 1: a day, no big deal. By shutting the eyes and

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Speaker 1: remaining perfectly still for one, two or five minutes when

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Speaker 1: it can be done without neglecting anything important and listeners.

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Speaker 1: This is uh has been a little awkward a couple

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Speaker 1: of times when I look over at the standing decks

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Speaker 1: next to me and Caroline is standing with her eyes

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Speaker 1: closed stock still. Well, I know because I fail at

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Speaker 1: it every time because as soon as I close my

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Speaker 1: eyes I started to frown. So it's you know, there's

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Speaker 1: no winning. Well, then when she gets your frownies, I

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Speaker 1: know then it'll be off that We could also take

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Speaker 1: a tip from the nineteen tens through the thirties when

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Speaker 1: radioactive masks, straps, patches, and cosmetics were all the race. Oh,

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Speaker 1: this is such a fascinating period when people went lady

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Speaker 1: gaga over radioactive stuff, including chin straps. Tell me about

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Speaker 1: these radio or chin straps please, yeah, So, okay, you

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Speaker 1: have to keep in mind the context of the time.

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Speaker 1: So Murray and Pierre Curry had done all this stuff

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Speaker 1: with radioactive materials that you know, the world was amazed

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Speaker 1: by these advancements in science. And so you get the

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Speaker 1: radio or chin straps, which you would you know, strapped

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Speaker 1: your face and they supposedly provided a continuous, steady current

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Speaker 1: of energy flowing into the skin, and before long, the

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Speaker 1: wrinkles have disappeared, the nerves have become strong and energized,

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Speaker 1: and the tired muscles have become braced up and ready

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Speaker 1: for service. What service? I haven't the slightest idea. You

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Speaker 1: also had chemo lite radioactive beauty plasma, which was supposedly

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Speaker 1: volcanic mud from the Carpathian Mountains that was to be

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Speaker 1: used as the daily cream. Wow, yeah, I mean that

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Speaker 1: that doesn't sound too far away from the mud and

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Speaker 1: crocodile poop of the ancient Romans and Greeks, right right.

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Speaker 1: And then there was so Radia, which contained thorium chloride

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Speaker 1: and radium bromide, which are both horrifyingly radioactive ingredients ps.

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Speaker 1: And then as we continue our timeline, we see in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen forties that injectable silicone becomes a thing for

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Speaker 1: the first time. In the seventies and eighties, injectable bovine

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Speaker 1: collagen is developed and people are once again injecting their

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Speaker 1: own fat into their faces. In between two thousand and

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Speaker 1: two thousand, twelve, botox treatments rose six hundred eighty per cent. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there was some initial like battitudes about botox, you know,

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Speaker 1: being a neurotoxin, and so people weren't so into it.

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Speaker 1: But they've gotten over those, uh, those quibbles for sure,

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Speaker 1: and now botox is super common. It's even used in

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Speaker 1: your armpits if you have hyper hydro this there we go. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's people use it to help ease migraines. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they use it for everything, and it can even do

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Speaker 1: your laundry. Just just keep a jar of botox around. Well,

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Speaker 1: we've now arrived at our anti aging, anti wrinkle industry today,

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Speaker 1: and we've got lots to talk about, including how wrinkles

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Speaker 1: are actually formed scientifically, and we'll talk about that when

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Speaker 1: we come right back from a quick break. You know,

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Speaker 1: I feel like when I first attended to make a website,

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Speaker 1: things would have been easier if I'd had square Space

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Speaker 1: at my disposal instead of just putting pictures of Corgis everywhere,

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Speaker 1: which you know, I eventually did take it down. So

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Speaker 1: maybe now is the time to use square space to

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Speaker 1: build my personal website, corgy space dot com, right, Caroline, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: exactly what else would it be? The great thing about

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Speaker 1: square Space is that their sites look professionally designed regardless

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Speaker 1: of your skill level, and there's no coding required. They've

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Speaker 1: got intuitive and easy to use tools, and you can

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Speaker 1: get a free domain if you sign up for a year.

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Speaker 1: So you can start your free trial site today at

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Speaker 1: square space dot com. And when stuff mom never told

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Speaker 1: you listeners decided to sign up for squarespace, be sure

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Speaker 1: to use the offer code mom stuff to get ten

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Speaker 1: percent off your first purchase Squarespace. You should. So it

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Speaker 1: should come as no surprise to anyone listening that today's

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Speaker 1: anti aging business is booming at the plan words because

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Speaker 1: it's mostly thanks to the baby boomer generation. According to

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Speaker 1: Transparency Market Research in August, they predicted by twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 1: the anti aging market will be worth a hundred and

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Speaker 1: nine point seven billion dollars and for a little active

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Speaker 1: they valued it at a hundred and twenty two point

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Speaker 1: three billion dollars. In Granted, you will see different valuations

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Speaker 1: depending on what you include in the beauty and anti

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Speaker 1: aging market. If you're including just like creams and lisens

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Speaker 1: and potions, if you're including dermatological services and things like that. Um,

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Speaker 1: but that should just give you a little tip as

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Speaker 1: to how booming this business is. And a lot of that,

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Speaker 1: like you said, is thanks to the boomer generation, people

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Speaker 1: born between ninety six and nineteen sixty four are the

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Speaker 1: biggest consumers of anti aging products and services. But people

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Speaker 1: our age are all about this newer uh industry of

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Speaker 1: projuvenation treatments. Yeah. So, like you know, I've seen in

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Speaker 1: plenty of magazines that women in their early twenties should

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Speaker 1: start using anti aging products. And really, I think the

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Speaker 1: key is just to use sunscreen like our mothers did.

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Speaker 1: Tell us that that is like super key and and

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Speaker 1: um slowing down the aging process. But also I knew

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Speaker 1: a girl at my last job who in her early

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Speaker 1: twenties started getting botox in her forehead because she was like, well,

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Speaker 1: this is how you prevent wrinkles. You just keep the

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Speaker 1: muscles from moving. Oh, listen for a little bit of

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Speaker 1: sad news today. Before we came into the podcast, Studio

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Speaker 1: news broke that a beauty queen in Brazil named Raquel Santos,

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Speaker 1: who's twenty eight years old, die undergoing a wrinkle surgery.

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Speaker 1: It was called a Chinese mustache and it is supposed

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Speaker 1: to remove the wrinkles like around your your mouth years old.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I've never heard of that procedure, and

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Speaker 1: that's so tragic and apparently mean. She'd apparently undergone lots

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Speaker 1: of you know, plastic surgery and procedures like that. But listen, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that it's not worth it. Nope, yikes, um,

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Speaker 1: But it is interesting to see I did not reel

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Speaker 1: eyes that this market, the anti aging market, is actually booming.

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Speaker 1: The biggest in the United States. It's huge in North America, Europe,

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Speaker 1: and the Asia Pacific region, but super big among American women,

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Speaker 1: who lead the way in those anti aging facial skincare

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Speaker 1: products when compared to women in Germany, France, in the UK.

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Speaker 1: So we know that we've spent a ton of time

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Speaker 1: throughout history worrying about wrinkles, and we spent a ton

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Speaker 1: of money today worrying about wrinkles. But what causes them? Anatomically?

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Speaker 1: What is going on? Because I mean probably every single

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Speaker 1: listener has heard the connection to the sun. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you're likeliest to form wrinkles on your face, neck, hands,

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Speaker 1: and arms because those are the most exposed to the sun.

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Speaker 1: But what's going on to to make our wrinkles? Well,

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Speaker 1: we looked at this interesting bit of research coming out

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Speaker 1: of Brown University that was looking at this theoretical model

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Speaker 1: of our wrinkles form in a bunch of different materials.

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Speaker 1: They weren't necessarily writing about human skin, but they were

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Speaker 1: arguing that their same logic could possibly hold true for skin.

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Speaker 1: So basically, when something wrinkles, you have a stiff surface,

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Speaker 1: which is called the stiffness boundary layer with softer sub layers.

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Speaker 1: But when you compress it, it begins to buckle and

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Speaker 1: form patterns on the surface. And as that compression increases,

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Speaker 1: groups of ripples then become a single crease where the

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Speaker 1: surface dips down to the sub layers. Is it just

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Speaker 1: making me think of ruffles potato chips? Well, but at

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Speaker 1: least those are salty and delicious, I know, potato chips. Well,

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Speaker 1: so you mentioned the sun, Kristen, what else can cause

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Speaker 1: those wrinkles as pesky wrinkles? Well, first of all, we've

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Speaker 1: got our jeans, I mean before we even get into

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Speaker 1: the sun, obviously when we're given jeans in the womb,

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Speaker 1: and your genes determine your skin structure and texture. But

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Speaker 1: the biggest wrinkle maker really is the sun because of

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Speaker 1: that U V exposure and that accelerates aging and is

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Speaker 1: the primary cause of early on set wrinkles because those

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Speaker 1: UV raised break down our skins connective fibers, collagen, and elastin,

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Speaker 1: which means that our skin loses strength and flexibility, which

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Speaker 1: leads to that premature sagging and wrinkling. Man, I'm telling

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Speaker 1: you go get some self tanner cream. Like, as much

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Speaker 1: as I love being in the sun, I am I,

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Speaker 1: it's just so bad for you. It's so bad for

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Speaker 1: your skin and your body, and just don't do it.

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Speaker 1: And of course age obviously ages a factor. As you age,

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Speaker 1: your skin becomes less elastic and more fragile. It also

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Speaker 1: produces less oil, which makes it appear more wrinkled. You

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Speaker 1: have your deeper down fat diminishing, which contributes to saggy

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Speaker 1: or skin and therefore more pronounced wrinkles. And for anyone

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Speaker 1: who's ever flipped through a woman's magazine probably knows, diet

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Speaker 1: contributes to it as well. You have sugary and starchy

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Speaker 1: foods that promote inflammation and accelerate aging because they're associated

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Speaker 1: with again that collagen and alassin becoming stiff and less springy.

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Speaker 1: And the chemicals in foods like say white bread and

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Speaker 1: my beloved potato chips helped make us even more susceptible

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Speaker 1: to sun damage. And if you're not getting enough good

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Speaker 1: fats think avocados, think salmon to keep those skin that

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Speaker 1: skin looking supple, that could contribute to wrinkles as well.

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Speaker 1: You need to get all of those good veggies. The

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Speaker 1: vitamins in them promote collagen and protein. Not getting enough

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Speaker 1: protein means that you're going to have more cracks and

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Speaker 1: wrinkles in the skin. And in case you needed more

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Speaker 1: of a reason, you should also be drinking plenty of water, which,

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Speaker 1: even though that's not going to be some miracle cure,

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Speaker 1: all we your skin is nicely moisturized, whether that is

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Speaker 1: through drinking a ton of water or actually using lotion,

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Speaker 1: just the appearance of wrinkles will not be as obvious.

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Speaker 1: And stress is a major culprit as well, because stress

424
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: triggers the release of the hormone cortisol, which causes cell damage,

425
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 1: and so that inflammatory response isn't good for our skin either.

426
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: And if you're really stressed, you probably aren't getting great sleep,

427
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 1: and that's going to exacerbate the problem as well, because

428
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: sleep helps counteract the effects of stress because that's when

429
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,479
Speaker 1: our growth hormones are released, right, So human growth hormone

430
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: basically works with your collagen to maintain skin and muscle composition.

431
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: But as you age, your body's production of collagen slows,

432
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 1: which leads to that looser and thinner skin. And then

433
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: there's the basics that we say in almost any health episode,

434
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 1: you need to be getting enough exercise, not drinking excess alcohol,

435
00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: not smoking. Studies have found that exercisers skin is actually

436
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: thicker and has more healthy collagen. Exercises. Also, as you've

437
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 1: probably read, two, an anti inflammatory wonder drug, and for

438
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: anyone who has tied one on, you probably know the

439
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: next morning your skin is so so so dry. I mean,

440
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: in addition to the inflammation response to alcohol triggers and

441
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 1: the broken capillaries and cell damage that it can cause

442
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 1: as our bodies metabolize it, it dehydrates us and leaves

443
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 1: us prone to fine lines, dullness, and enlarged pores. And

444
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: I can firsthand tell you the horror of looking at

445
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: hangover face skin. It's different in your thirties, that's for sure,

446
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: Ever even times in the twenties. Well, also, everybody please

447
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: quit smoking today right now, because smoking reduces blood and

448
00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: nutrient supplies and that alarates aging. Not to mention that

449
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: repeated kissy face you're making when you're sucond on a

450
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: cigarette is part of the whole Victorians being right about

451
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: not making repeated facial expressions. So those repeated facial expressions

452
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: end up causing those creases. They get compressed over and

453
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: over again. So don't squint. People wear sunglasses where your

454
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: moisturizing I cream with peptides. Those are proteins. Don't worry

455
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: about it, just google it. Repetitive smiling, although come on, like,

456
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: let's let's have our laugh lines. These quote unquote injuries

457
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: are what cause fine lines. That repeated use of facial

458
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: muscles causes grooves to form beneath the skin, and as

459
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 1: you age, there's less ability to bounce back. And I

460
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: really enjoyed us speaking of grooves the description in a

461
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: study in the British Journal of Dermatology, which said that

462
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: a wrinkle isn't really different from the rest of your skin.

463
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: It's just what they call a figuration change quote like

464
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: the grooves worn in an old glove. Thanks yeah, thanks,

465
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: thanks a lot. But okay, so we we've been talking

466
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: about all this stuff about how aging accelerates. What we're

467
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: doing to ourselves that could be contributing to the natural

468
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: aging and wrinkling process. And beyond just sheer like human vanity,

469
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: there are other reasons that maybe we should be concerned

470
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: about wrinkles and how we perceive them. Uh. There was

471
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: this one study that found that steady participants rated the

472
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: faces of older adults as sadder and angrier, even though

473
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: their expressions were neutral, basically because their facial wrinkles were

474
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: causing the mouth to drop and the forehead to crinkle,

475
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: features that other people often perceive as anger or sadness.

476
00:30:52,800 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: So basically all old folks have resting bitch face according well, sad,

477
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: resting sad bitch base. Yeah. Yeah. And the implications for this,

478
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: I mean, this sounds like, oh, that's too bad, but

479
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: their actual implications for this because it could affect, the

480
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: study author said, how older adults are treated in medical

481
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: settings and in a time when people of a certain

482
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: age are maybe losing people in their social and family groups,

483
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: if they look negative, angry, and sad, they are less

484
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: likely to be considered approachable, so it might be even

485
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: harder to form new connections with new people. And this

486
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: also echoes previous research which found that whipper snappers like

487
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 1: us have a hard time determining older people's emotions from

488
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: their faces because, as they say, wrinkles muddle expression. Yeah,

489
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: and so there was, um, there was some reading that

490
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: we did where older women were interviewed, and we'll talk

491
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: about this in a little bit, but a lot of

492
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: them said, you know, I'm just tired of people assuming

493
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: that I'm tired and angry all the time, Like I

494
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: don't feel that way, but people look at me. It's

495
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: like when I fell asleep in eighth grade? Are you

496
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: angry about your sleeping? What's going on? He so angry

497
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: about civics? No, I'm just I frown and then it

498
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: makes a wrinkle. Sorry, but here's a question pertinent to

499
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: stuff I've never told you. How do we talked about

500
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: age a lot, but what about sex? Do guys and

501
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: gals experience wrinkles differently physically and culturally? The answer is

502
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: the yeah. Yeah. So there was a Japanese study that

503
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: found that in general, men had more severe wrinkles than women.

504
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: But but this trend reverses or completely disappears once you

505
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: get up into the oldest groups that they surveyed. So

506
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: in all of the age groups they looked at men

507
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: showed increased forehead wrinkles compared with women. So maybe I'll

508
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: have to do some forehead wrinkle comparison with some guys. Um.

509
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: But there were no gender dependent differences found in upper

510
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: eyelid wrinkles. As my mother would tell you, because she

511
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: wants to. She literally talks all the time about how

512
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 1: she wants to go get a couple's eye lift with

513
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: my father. Why what does that do? Well, obviously it

514
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: lifts your eyes, but it makes you look younger, it

515
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: gets rid of the wrinkles and folds over your eyes. Yeah,

516
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: she's positively gleeful that her eye doctor told her that

517
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: because her upper lid drooped so much, it could be

518
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: considered a medically necessary procedure for her vision. It sounds uncomfortable. Oh,

519
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 1: but there was another study I was looking at, So

520
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: be careful if you go in for an eyelift, because

521
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: they looked at they showed basically ie and facial expressions

522
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:53,479
Speaker 1: to study participants, and before the eye lift, the person

523
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: was judged as being you know, angry, negative, tired. But

524
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: when they did some computer magic and made the person

525
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: look as if she'd had an eye lift, the study

526
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: participants again thought she looks angry, negative and unapproachable because

527
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,839
Speaker 1: it had been so severe that now the eyebrows were

528
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: way up and people were like, she looks like she's

529
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 1: mad at me. So there is that sweet spot. So

530
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 1: if you're planning to make an eyelift appointment, tell your

531
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: doctor not to go nuts moral the story, just leave

532
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 1: your face alone or or that. Yeah. I was really

533
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: fascinated though, by a study from two thousand nine in

534
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: the journal Aesthetic Surgery, which found that women tend to

535
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: develop laugh lines more because we have fewer sweat glands

536
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:47,800
Speaker 1: around our mouths compared to men, and having fewer sweat

537
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,439
Speaker 1: or sabacious glands mean that we produce less oil, which

538
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: protects our skin and keeps it soft. Yeah. We also

539
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 1: have fewer blood vessels, and so that means less blood

540
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: flow to the mouth re gen, which is interesting because

541
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: it's that blood flow that like keeps you looking all

542
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: peppy and unwrinkled. Might be like lessened blood flow to

543
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 1: the mouth region. Like, yeah, that does sound like it

544
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 1: goes back to that Hungarian countess, doesn't it. Um, But

545
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: women also have uh muscles around our mouths that are

546
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: closer to the skin, which might pull the skin and tighter,

547
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: causing more wrinkles and hormones because hormones. Hormones do everything right, Yeah,

548
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: I mean, at first, estrogens are helpful. They promote healing,

549
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: and that actually means this is pretty cool. Women tend

550
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 1: to heal from wounds faster. But when menopause hits, your

551
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: blood flow is reduced again contributing to lines and furrows,

552
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: and you have that drop obviously in estrogen going on,

553
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: not to mention the decrease in fat or sea bum

554
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: secreted by our sweat glands, which of course is compounded

555
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 1: by our lower concentration of sweat glands. Right. Meanwhile, I mean,

556
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:07,760
Speaker 1: women who have done hormone replacement therapy reportedly have fewer

557
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: wrinkles than those not taking any hormones at all, which,

558
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 1: so I mean there's another thing to think about. But

559
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: the thing that compounds all of this too, especially for women,

560
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 1: is the culture how we perceive and treat women with

561
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: visible signs of aging. Yeah, we puilled some interesting information

562
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: from Laura heard Clark's book Facing Age, Women, Growing Older

563
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: and Anti Aging Culture. Uh So, she talked to a

564
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 1: whole bunch of doctors and plastic surgeons and dermatologists. She

565
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: also talked to a large group of aging women, and

566
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: one doctor she talked to said that overall, they're seeing

567
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 1: a lot more both men and women coming in earlier,

568
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: earlier being ages thirty five to fifty, wanting more subtle

569
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: results through non surgical interventions, because it used to be

570
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 1: you didn't have such a broad availability of you know,

571
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: the botox and the all the different types of fillers

572
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: and things like that that you have now. But now

573
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: that they're available, we're seeing more younger people, both men

574
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: and women, coming in and saying, oh, well, since it's

575
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: not a drastic surgery, like I feel more comfortable with it,

576
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: so yeah, let's just pump some stuff into these wrinkles. Yeah.

577
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: Whenever I go to my dermatologist's office, whenever I'm waiting

578
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: in the room, the exam room for her to come in,

579
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: I always look at the men's botox brochures because it's

580
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 1: just fascinating to even see that advertisement targeted at older gents.

581
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 1: But still though women do make up the bulk of

582
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 1: the demand for both surgical and non surgical cosmetic procedures,

583
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: and the explanations provided by the doctors that Clark talked

584
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 1: to I had a lot to do with stuff that

585
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 1: we talked about on the podcast all the time. The

586
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 1: doctors acknowledged the pervasiveness of media messages about women's attractiveness

587
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: and said that this whole like surgical or non surgical

588
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,399
Speaker 1: intervention thing might just be an extension of their other

589
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 1: quote beauty work efforts like trying to wear the right

590
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 1: clothes and makeup and hair to be the most flattering

591
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: to your age figure, et cetera. But they also acknowledge

592
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: that there's just a lot of pressure on women to

593
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 1: look good versus men. One even said, yeah, there's this

594
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: attitude that women get old and men just age. Yeah,

595
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:29,919
Speaker 1: I mean it's the whole thing. If we talk about hair,

596
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 1: when our hair turns gray, which mine has started to do,

597
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: it is a bit more daunting for women because guys

598
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: turned into silver foxes and women just start looking kind

599
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 1: of old. Well, men, I think are more valued for

600
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 1: being like, oh, a distinguished older man who probably has

601
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: accumulated more wealth and power, whereas a woman tends to

602
00:38:53,680 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: be valued in her younger years for her beauty and fertility. Fertility. Yeah, yeah,

603
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 1: it all goes back to sex and babies. But it's

604
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: not necessarily just to turn back the clock and look young.

605
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: More commonly, people have been telling their doctors that they

606
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: just want their outsides to match their insides and get

607
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 1: rid of this whole haggard, tired, negative look. And some

608
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: doctors even framed it when they spoke with Clark, like,

609
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 1: it's just part of a health regimen with appearance and

610
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: psychological benefits, that women who simply want to look natural

611
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,759
Speaker 1: and be healthy, and they just want their faces to

612
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: reflect that. And that's something that I hear echoed from

613
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 1: my mom increasingly as she's gotten older, her being vocally

614
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 1: insistent with how young and vibrant and healthy she feels,

615
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 1: and that she never wants to look old and it

616
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: is and and so that that idea of matching the

617
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 1: inside to the outside definitely resonated. And I can understand that,

618
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: especially if there's an assumption other people if you're perceived

619
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: to look tired and upset, whereas you're you're just you

620
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,240
Speaker 1: and you feel totally fine. Yeah. And so Clark argues

621
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 1: that these sort of casual attitudes about what I just

622
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 1: want to look how I feel have led to increasingly

623
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: unattainable appearance demands for women in later life. These are

624
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,879
Speaker 1: costly procedures. They are they can be time consuming, and

625
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 1: she had interviewed a whole bunch of women in the

626
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:36,800
Speaker 1: late nineties before Botox super took off, before the mediorc

627
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,320
Speaker 1: rise of all of these non surgical interventions, and across

628
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: the board a dent unanimously, they all had strong negative opinions,

629
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 1: everything from sadness to shock to dismay about their wrinkles.

630
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 1: They all expressed the desire to eliminate them, and Clark

631
00:40:52,920 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 1: calls this the internalization of ages, conceptualizations of physical attractiveness. Yeah,

632
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: I mean, women looking at themselves in the mirror describe

633
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:11,280
Speaker 1: themselves looking crabby, grouchy, withered, miserable. And the older they were,

634
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 1: the stronger their reactions were because they interpreted their wrinkles

635
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:20,399
Speaker 1: as signs of deterioration and of course a sign that hey,

636
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: you know what, at some point you're gonna die. And

637
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 1: culturally too, it goes to the whole thing of like,

638
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 1: not only do aging men become distinguished, but for many

639
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: aging women, as we talked about a lot during our

640
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 1: episode on Women of a Certain age, it's a process

641
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 1: of feeling like you are disappearing. Yeah, exactly, so you know,

642
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 1: these women expressed the desire to have their wrinkles disappear.

643
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 1: Can we should? We like? What are what are the

644
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 1: options that are out there that people think actually work well?

645
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,240
Speaker 1: You have the injections, which thankfully are no longer limited

646
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: to paraffin. You know, have safer things like botox and

647
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 1: restalan and other kinds of fillers. And then, of course

648
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 1: you've got other medical and spat treatments like laser and

649
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 1: light resurfacing, chemical peels, dermibration. I've had dermibration done. It

650
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 1: feels real weird, like a like a robot cat is

651
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 1: licking your face. It's real weird. Have you had it done?

652
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 1: I've had micro demibration. I'm sure it's the same thing. Um.

653
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: Of course, there's all the inside out stuff that we

654
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: already talked about, eating plenty of healthy fats, fruits, vegetables,

655
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: getting all of that good hydration, all of those good

656
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 1: vitamins to keep your blood pumping. Does lacroix count as

657
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 1: hydration because I drink so much of it? Totally right? Sure,

658
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: kind of water, it's a liquid um. And then little

659
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: tricks like sleeping on your back, don't squint, moisturized and

660
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 1: don't overwah either. You know, we've talked a lot about

661
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 1: oils being stripped away or the underproduction of oil contributing

662
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 1: to that dried, wrinkled appearance. Don't get too crazy with

663
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 1: your face wash if your skin can't handle it. Yeah, listen,

664
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 1: I'm all on board for not ever washing and for moisturizing,

665
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna sleep on my stomach and squint if

666
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 1: the sun is in my eyes or if I'm incredulous

667
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 1: like you are at the advice to sleep on your back. Indeed,

668
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 1: I am not a back sleeper either. I don't like it,

669
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 1: and I think that but that might be a psychological thing.

670
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. But then there are lots of topical aids.

671
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: I don't want to say cures or fixes, but we

672
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 1: mentioned the alpha hydroxy acids, which are natural fruit acids

673
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 1: that can help get rid of that top layer of

674
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: skin and might help boost collagen. You've got retinoids uh

675
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:46,280
Speaker 1: trent nowhen which is like a it's a vitamin A product,

676
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 1: is the only f d A approved topical rankle treatment.

677
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: It can help reduce those fine lines and even repair

678
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: sun damage. I am on Tretton Owen slather my face

679
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 1: with it every night. Nice. I mean, I guess, I

680
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,919
Speaker 1: guess it's nice. I guess it's nice. My dermatologist tells

681
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 1: me it's it's smart for it for me to do.

682
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:11,399
Speaker 1: So we'll see. Well, another dermatologist recommended UH product would

683
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 1: be vitamin C, which can increase collagen production, protect against

684
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: sun damage, correct pigmentation problems, and improve inflammation. There's the

685
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,280
Speaker 1: powerful antioxidant i'd a bin own which can reduce roughness

686
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 1: and dryness. And you know we talked about human growth factor,

687
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 1: and then penta peptides, which are apparently these are a

688
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 1: type of protein, but it's apparently a super product that

689
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 1: can help boost collagen production. Just it's just making me

690
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 1: think about how how simple it was in my grandmother's

691
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 1: day when they just put on some vasoline, which, f y,

692
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 1: I is not a moisturizing ingredient. It is a barrier

693
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: product that locks moisture in. So apply your moisturizer and

694
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 1: then your vasoline. Yeah, it's not non chromogenic, right, it

695
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 1: can clog your pores. I think so. Um, but yeah, no,

696
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: I mean your note about our grandmother's I mean I

697
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,760
Speaker 1: was looking at a picture of my grandparents who died

698
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,840
Speaker 1: very young. They died in their sixties or late sixties,

699
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 1: and um, they look so old. And I don't mean

700
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: that as a judgment. I just mean that culturally, it

701
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:23,320
Speaker 1: seems like there's more of this embrace of the look

702
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: as young as you feel. Whereas with my grandparents, for instance,

703
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 1: at the age of you know, sixty eight, they already

704
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 1: looked the way that I just picture someone who's eighty five.

705
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 1: There was no like, I'm just you know, my grandparents

706
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 1: were very like, I'm just not gonna mess with any

707
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: of that stuff. Well, I wondered though, generationally, if it

708
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 1: has to do with even just basic things like a

709
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: lot more smokers, a lot less sunscreen. Yeah, my mom

710
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: was known to lie out in the yard with baby

711
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:59,760
Speaker 1: oil on. So yeah. And and her mom was a heavy,

712
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 1: heavy chain smoker and a daily Scotch drinker, and that

713
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 1: is what killed her. There you go, not to be

714
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 1: too depressing, just keep moisturizing people and drink lots of

715
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 1: water and quit smoking. But what do you think though

716
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 1: about our concern over wrinkles, especially at our age, because

717
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: this is something that I've noticed as I you know,

718
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 1: my my twenties closed out and into my thirties. Wrinkles

719
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 1: are a common topic of conversation with my girlfriends and me,

720
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,279
Speaker 1: and so many times when it happens, I'll stop and

721
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 1: be like, wait, what are we talking about? This is ridiculous?

722
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: Should we be caring about this? Well, I I am

723
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,759
Speaker 1: often mistaken for someone much younger than my age, which

724
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 1: I appreciate, which made it even more upsetting when I

725
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:48,479
Speaker 1: did look in the mirror the other day after having

726
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 1: I hadn't slept well, I was dehydrated, so like that

727
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:53,879
Speaker 1: does mess up your skin, but I had like all

728
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: sorts of lumpiness under my eyes. I've got the intense

729
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 1: ripple between the eyebrows, I've got the ripples on the forehead.

730
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 1: I was just like, oh my god, am I just

731
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,320
Speaker 1: gonna look like a super aging college student here in

732
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 1: a minute? Like I don't. I don't want to look old.

733
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: I don't want to be wrinkled. And then I felt

734
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 1: that feeling come over me of I just want to

735
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 1: look how I feel. I don't want to look wrinkled,

736
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 1: and so then I was like, oh, boy, okay, I

737
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 1: need to be like thinking about my my mental status

738
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 1: when it comes to wrinkles and aging because I feel like,

739
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,720
Speaker 1: I'm on the precipice of not accepting it very well.

740
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: I'm so curious, especially if there are older listeners listening, UM,

741
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:44,319
Speaker 1: to know whether this is something unique to say older millennials,

742
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: like we are of worrying about our wrinkles earlier because

743
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 1: there's so many options now, Um, we are told, you know,

744
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,280
Speaker 1: about all of the prejuvenation steps we should be taking.

745
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: Whether it was something when they were thirty that all

746
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:01,879
Speaker 1: them and all their girlfriends were talking about, or if

747
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: this is this is a byproduct, you know what I mean.

748
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm really curious to know that that kind

749
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:13,439
Speaker 1: of generational cultural issue too, because I just again, I,

750
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 1: like I said at the top of the podcast, I

751
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: worry more about worrying about it because there's there's so

752
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 1: much other stuff in my life to manage. It's like,

753
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 1: I don't want to worry about crowsfeet. I just I

754
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 1: really don't. But it's hard not to when you look

755
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 1: in the mirror and you have those days where your

756
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:35,719
Speaker 1: face looks bizarre and unfamiliar, because that happens partially due

757
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 1: to hormones and and it is it's tough to fight

758
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 1: that those little voices in your head that start piping in,

759
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: especially when you're looking in the mirror and you're like,

760
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: oh good, more fine lines under my eyes and a

761
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 1: new ZiT. And then you see a photo of yourself

762
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 1: in your early twenties and you see how young you looked.

763
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: That's a strange sensation too, and the realization of why

764
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:07,359
Speaker 1: didn't I notice how amazing my skin looked when I

765
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 1: was twenty two? Why wasn't I wearing more sunscreen? Yeah?

766
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 1: Why wasn't I more comfortable? And how I was? Yeah?

767
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, seriously, that's the thing. I mean, thirty is

768
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 1: amazing because you know, at least in my experience, I'm

769
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 1: more comfortable in my skin literally and figuratively than I

770
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:27,799
Speaker 1: ever have been in my life. And I'm like, but man,

771
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,399
Speaker 1: if we could just pare that with my twenty two

772
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 1: year old face, what a combo aging. So, before we

773
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 1: get a listener mail, Caroline and I have a very

774
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: special guest to introduce. Who was hosting your new favorite podcast?

775
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:50,240
Speaker 1: Oh nice, Thank you, Julie Douglas, host of Stuff of Life. Welcome,

776
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: Thank you, thanks for having me, Thanks for letting me

777
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: like invade the podcast room and hang out here in

778
00:49:56,600 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: the corner and makesmores and then all this little other

779
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 1: weird rattley things I was doing. You're an amazingly quiet

780
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 1: s'more maker. I mean, we just did that whole episode

781
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 1: with you making like hundreds of them and we didn't

782
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 1: hear anything. Why is the marshmallows really and then cushion, Yeah,

783
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 1: they do cushion, and I mean you've got the Graham

784
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 1: crackers snap, but then the marshmallows really do buffer that,

785
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,320
Speaker 1: And that is not what the podcast is about to

786
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 1: for wondering, It's not the stuff of s'mores, the stuff

787
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 1: of smores, the stuff of although earlier we were talking

788
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 1: about candy, and there's there's a possibility that candy could

789
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 1: make its way as a topic. So tell us about

790
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 1: the stuff of life. What can we expect to learn about? Well,

791
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:40,759
Speaker 1: let me tell you, um, it is a podcast that

792
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 1: really centers on kind of picking apart a certain story

793
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 1: or a topic. Um. For instance, we have one on

794
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 1: emergencies and fear and how they seize us and how

795
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 1: we react to them. And we talked to a couple

796
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 1: of experts. Um. One of them is a former firefighter

797
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: and the other one as a squat team member, and

798
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:04,760
Speaker 1: so they kind of have like their boots on the ground,

799
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: and they talk about how to deal with the fear

800
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 1: that you're experiencing during some sort of crazy emergency or such.

801
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 1: And then, um, we talked to a couple of how

802
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:18,799
Speaker 1: Stuff Works folks about their own experiences and how they've

803
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: dealt with it. So the podcast really kind of takes um,

804
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:26,280
Speaker 1: you know, the expert voice, but also all of the wonderful,

805
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 1: amazing talented folks here and it kind of gets them

806
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,840
Speaker 1: in on the game. And uh, and then we have

807
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 1: some wonderful sound design by Noel Brown, our producer also

808
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 1: Stuff One Ever told you producer extraordinary. Yeah. Well, and

809
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 1: for people who are familiar with How Stuff Works podcasts,

810
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:51,319
Speaker 1: the Stuff of Life is a different audio experience. And

811
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 1: by different, I mean it's such a Richard soundscape. Uh yeah,

812
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: and Noel is amazing. I mean that's he's got original

813
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 1: composition in there and he makes at all sound beautiful.

814
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 1: And that's the really cool thing is that, you know,

815
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 1: I kind of cobbled together some voice over and try

816
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,760
Speaker 1: to make sense of the story and all the different

817
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:13,240
Speaker 1: clips that we bring in. And this guy Nol whom

818
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:16,879
Speaker 1: I'm staring at right now. Yeah, we're all looking real

819
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 1: hard at you know, go hard that guy we're right there. Um,

820
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 1: like he's listening sort of for the emotional soundscape. I

821
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 1: don't want to get to ethereal here, but he really

822
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 1: does listen for that, And so I think it's really

823
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,359
Speaker 1: interesting because it kind of melds those two different kinds

824
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:34,839
Speaker 1: of understandings that we get both of the spoken word

825
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:38,799
Speaker 1: but also through through sound cues. Well, what inspired you

826
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:44,320
Speaker 1: to create this new podcast? You know? I just um,

827
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 1: I'm an editor at heart, I think, and so I

828
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 1: just thought to myself, I really would like to play

829
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,319
Speaker 1: in this form, and I'd like to be able to

830
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 1: take in all these different voices, particularly here at how

831
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 1: stuff works, because I feel like but here has an

832
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 1: amazing base of knowledge to work off of and has

833
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 1: really interesting perspectives. Let's try to bring all that together

834
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:13,359
Speaker 1: into one podcast. Is there something that you've learned so

835
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 1: far in your research that has just let your brain

836
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,319
Speaker 1: on fire? I don't know if I should reveal it here,

837
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 1: and I'm not sure how Josh Clark of Stuff You

838
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 1: Should Know feels about revealing this. But he was a

839
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 1: b boy, like like he won competition since he was

840
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 1: in his paper and yes, yes, I seeing Josh walk

841
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 1: through the halls low these many years, I would not

842
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 1: that he was a break dancer and his button up

843
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 1: plaid shirt. That's amazing. That is the stuff of life

844
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 1: that I can't wait to learn about, Julia well, and

845
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 1: I'm hoping that that we get to even you alls

846
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 1: find voices as well, because that will be an episode

847
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 1: on men dancing and in particular why men don't dance

848
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: and Caroline by Caroline doesn't dance either, but yes, men too,

849
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,480
Speaker 1: definitely men. I think I saw you dance at the

850
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:12,399
Speaker 1: company dance company dance party in our house. That works

851
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:18,360
Speaker 1: prom I might have uh shaken a leg or two. So, Julie,

852
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 1: where can people go to listen to stuff of life?

853
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:23,719
Speaker 1: I'm glad you asked. Um. You can go to many

854
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 1: fine purveyors of podcasts, including iTunes. And the first episode

855
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 1: will be published on January twenty seven, and then it'll

856
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 1: be a weekly podcast. And so what should expect is

857
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 1: like the first one will be a little bit more

858
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 1: around the meat side, and then the second one that

859
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 1: follows will be more of a companion piece too, and

860
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 1: sett'll be a little bit shorter and sometimes lighter. Well Julie,

861
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:48,839
Speaker 1: we can't wait to tune in and stuff Mom never

862
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 1: told you, listeners, be sure you tune into the Stuff

863
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 1: of Life hosted by Julie Douglas because it's gonna be fantastic.

864
00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me on. Guess Well, listeners, we want

865
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 1: to hear from you younger, older our age. Do you

866
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 1: feel this aging angst and the wrinkle and crow sweet

867
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 1: and laugh lines angst as well? And also fellows too.

868
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 1: We want to hear your voices on it as well,

869
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:18,760
Speaker 1: because you're being marketed to more than ever before about

870
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:21,839
Speaker 1: your wrinkles. So right to us mom Stuff at how

871
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 1: stuff works dot Com is our email address. You can

872
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:28,360
Speaker 1: also tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or messages on Facebook.

873
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:30,520
Speaker 1: And we've got a couple of messages to share with

874
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:39,359
Speaker 1: you right now. So, Kristen and I have a set

875
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 1: of letters here in the wake of our two parter

876
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 1: with a practical wedding founder, Meg Keen. And these are

877
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:50,359
Speaker 1: both about name changes. Uh so, Michelle writes in your

878
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 1: recent podcast on a Feminist marriage, the topic of changing

879
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:56,919
Speaker 1: your last name was discussed. When I'm married almost six

880
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:00,040
Speaker 1: years ago, i changed my last name. I received a

881
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 1: lot of sideways looks from friends and co workers when

882
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 1: they asked if I would be changing my name or not.

883
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:07,840
Speaker 1: I was shocked at the amount of negative feedback and

884
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 1: what I felt like was judgment for changing my last name.

885
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 1: It was a huge bummer during an exciting time in

886
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 1: my life. It was treated as if I was making

887
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:19,880
Speaker 1: some kind of anti feminist statement. In reality, the reason

888
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:22,240
Speaker 1: why I changed my last name was because my maiden

889
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:24,759
Speaker 1: name was actually my dad's last name. My dad was

890
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 1: never really in my life, so I took this opportunity

891
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 1: to take a last name that actually meant something to

892
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,840
Speaker 1: me during casual conversations with co workers. This type of

893
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 1: reasoning wasn't really something I wanted to bring up or

894
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:38,319
Speaker 1: felt like I needed to justify. In the end, it

895
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 1: was my decision and I feel as though I made

896
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:42,840
Speaker 1: the right one. Anyways, it was an interesting time in

897
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:44,839
Speaker 1: my life and I thought i'd share the perspective from

898
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:48,400
Speaker 1: someone who did change their last name. Well, So thank you, Michelle.

899
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:50,640
Speaker 1: I appreciate it, and I feel like this is excellent

900
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:53,360
Speaker 1: encouragement for all of us, regardless of how you feel

901
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 1: about any aspect of wedding or marriages, to maybe keep

902
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 1: your opinions to yourself when someone else is telling you

903
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:01,840
Speaker 1: what they're planning to do with their lives. I've got

904
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 1: a let her here from Courtney, and she writes. My

905
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:06,840
Speaker 1: husband and I got married a few years ago on

906
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: a Saturday. I had until noon the following Monday to

907
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:13,319
Speaker 1: add him to my health insurance at work. I ran

908
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 1: into the HR office right after they opened that day,

909
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 1: marriage license in hand and asked lady working there to

910
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,560
Speaker 1: add my husband as a dependent. I bet you haven't

911
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 1: had a chance to get your new Social Security card

912
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 1: or driver's license made with your new last name on

913
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 1: it yet, so there's nothing I can do for you,

914
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 1: she said, pushing the license forward. I told her I

915
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 1: wasn't changing my name and to add my husband immediately.

916
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 1: I wish I could say this was the last time

917
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 1: people have had issues with me not changing my name.

918
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 1: There are friends and family who insists on addressing me

919
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 1: by my husband's last name or using mrs. When I

920
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 1: prefer miss. However, there's one person in my life who

921
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:53,960
Speaker 1: was pushed in the opposite direction of everyone else. My

922
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 1: sister in law tried really hard to convince my husband

923
00:57:56,960 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 1: to take my last name because it's the cooler us name.

924
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 1: We both liked the idea, but we're pretty sure his

925
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,479
Speaker 1: parents would be extremely upset. In the end, we both

926
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 1: kept our own names. Thanks for the awesome shows and

927
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:13,600
Speaker 1: good luck wedding planning well, Thanks Courtney, and thanks everybody

928
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 1: who's written into us mom stuff at house. Stuff works

929
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 1: dot Com is our email address and for links to

930
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:20,160
Speaker 1: all of our social media as well as all of

931
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 1: our blogs, videos, and podcasts with our sources, including this one.

932
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 1: So you can learn more about Wrinkle's head on over

933
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 1: to stuff mom Never Told You dot com for more

934
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:37,440
Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics. Is it how

935
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:46,280
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com