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Speaker 1: Welcome to Out of Money. I'm Joel, I am Matt.

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Speaker 1: Today we're talking REFI Revival, Delay, Pay Disaster, and Landline.

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Speaker 2: Love Landlines Baby.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know we're gonna get nostalgic. I'm not talking

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Speaker 1: about love Line. The Doctor Drue show that I never watched.

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Speaker 1: That was him and Adam Krolla.

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Speaker 3: Didn't they have that? It was?

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Speaker 1: It was they were on n TV back in the day. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't remember that one take.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't. Well, that was a cultural moment. I feel like, well,

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Speaker 3: there are certain things. I was just talking to a friend.

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Speaker 1: I don't really watch it, but I know it exacts

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Speaker 1: about other.

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Speaker 3: Shows on MTV, like MTV Unplugged, like there are certain concerts,

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Speaker 3: certain sessions that stand out in my mind. I don't

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Speaker 3: remember the love Line.

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Speaker 2: Sorry.

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Speaker 1: MTV was such a culture generator and it's not it was.

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Speaker 1: You think the Celebrity Death Mat exhibit showed about my

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Speaker 1: ride road Rules. Yeah, I think that's basically what is

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Speaker 1: the first?

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Speaker 3: Reality TV fueled my desire to want to go see

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Speaker 3: the world to a certain extent. But no, we will

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Speaker 3: talk about ways to get in touch with other people,

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Speaker 3: but in an affordable way. This is our Friday flight.

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Speaker 3: We're going to cover the top stories, the ones that

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Speaker 3: impact your personal finance is the most.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of getting in touch with other people, Matt, we

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Speaker 1: got text messages this week, you and I did.

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Speaker 3: From talk about the coin Base. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering if other listeners got this text because you

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Speaker 1: and I both got it, which is rare that you know,

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Speaker 1: you and I both get the same scam text message.

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Speaker 1: And it was like, hey, your coin boat based account,

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Speaker 1: someone try to log in from this android phone in Sydney,

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Speaker 1: Australia or something like that. If this wasn't you call

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Speaker 1: this number? Of course, I don't have a coinbase account.

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Speaker 1: Complete attempt to get me to call a number, so

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Speaker 1: you weren't at all concerned, correct, Okay, but I'm sure somebody,

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Speaker 1: well here's a coinbas account might be freaked out.

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Speaker 3: Here's the deal. So, as you're saying and that, I

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Speaker 3: put my hand up and I pointed to myself because

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Speaker 3: I've got a coin Base account. I'm not that being said,

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Speaker 3: I wasn't too concerned because I have a small a

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Speaker 3: smaller amount of money over there, only a couple of

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Speaker 3: mill in, just a few couple ten thousand. But okay,

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Speaker 3: so here, okay, so here's the real question. Then what

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Speaker 3: if you had gotten a text from a company or

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Speaker 3: brokerage that you do do business with. Let's say it

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Speaker 3: was Fidelity reaching out to you R Vanguard. These are

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Speaker 3: two brokerages.

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Speaker 1: Never call that, even if you have a relationship with

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Speaker 1: that business, Never call them over. Go to the website,

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Speaker 1: login yourself.

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Speaker 3: But do you think you would have felt emotionally charged

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Speaker 3: a little bit more? Because coinbas You're like, Okay, that's

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Speaker 3: like telling me that my payless credit card, you know,

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Speaker 3: payless to the shoe store. That's like, that's where I

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Speaker 3: get all my shoes. Basically, it was the equivalent of

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Speaker 3: that for you because it's not not even on your radar.

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Speaker 1: But for me, I felt it a little bit. I thought,

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Speaker 1: But if it was like your Huckberry account's been compromised,

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Speaker 1: not that you would have been like, oh my Bucks.

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Speaker 3: By the way, if they don't call them Huckbucks, they

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Speaker 3: or they're missing out. We should be on their marketing team.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I think those are the instances they are

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Speaker 3: hoping to find folks who actually do have those accounts,

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Speaker 3: And so yeah, like, do you think you would feel

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Speaker 3: a little bit differently? If you had received a text

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Speaker 3: message saying, hey your Fidelity, Hey, there is an outgoing

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Speaker 3: wire from your Fidelity account. Yeah, if that wasn't you

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Speaker 3: call us number now to let us know that that

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Speaker 3: is not legit.

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Speaker 1: I would have for a split second, But then I

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Speaker 1: would have known, I know the rules because we do

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Speaker 1: this for a living and we talk about it. I

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Speaker 1: would have known to go to my account to log

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Speaker 1: in into check and to not call a number that

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Speaker 1: someone sends me on a text message, and also realize

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Speaker 1: the Fidelity isn't sending These companies are not sending text Typically,

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Speaker 1: they might send you a verification code via text when

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Speaker 1: you're trying to log in, but they're not going to

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Speaker 1: send you a text with the phone number to call.

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Speaker 1: That's just not how it works, That's true. It's like

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Speaker 1: the IRS scams, like very very very similar, where the

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Speaker 1: IRS sends paper notices in the mail exactly right, So

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Speaker 1: if everybody deals.

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Speaker 3: With the IRS, so that's an instance where it might

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Speaker 3: seem a little more plausible, right, Yeah. I was just

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Speaker 3: trying to paint a situation because like if what if

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Speaker 3: you were like out with your family eating dinner at

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Speaker 3: a restaurant, you got the kids, you're having a great

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Speaker 3: time and you happen to look down and you see

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Speaker 3: a text and you don't have the ability to immediately

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Speaker 3: hop on the computer or to log into your account.

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Speaker 3: That I think that's the kind of situation that folks

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Speaker 3: might find themselves in where they are a little tempted,

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Speaker 3: but like you said, don't do it, don't do it.

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Speaker 1: That's where they get people too, with utility scams, like

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Speaker 1: small business owners and they're like, hey, we're gonna shut

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Speaker 1: your electricity off if you don't pay this fine and

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Speaker 1: you have to do it with a one of those

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Speaker 1: you know, gift cards, prepaid gift cards, and man, your

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Speaker 1: business like people are people are going to come into

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Speaker 1: lights out, like your restaurant is shut down for the

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Speaker 1: evening if you don't pay up. And it feels like this,

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Speaker 1: like because they put a time limit on it, and

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Speaker 1: there's a necessity, a quick necessity. You don't have time

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Speaker 1: to log in, check your account and actually verify the

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Speaker 1: emotional state.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you're a heightened emotional state and you might do anything,

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Speaker 3: but don't actually call the number that you're texting. But Joels,

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Speaker 3: this is something that we haven't said in a long time.

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Speaker 3: A lot of the home owners out there are refinancing.

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Speaker 3: There's been a pretty significant increase in refis new mortgage

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Speaker 3: applications over the past year. Interest rates have ticked down slightly,

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Speaker 3: and folks who bought when rates were like peaking above

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Speaker 3: seven percent, they are seeing rates now in the low sixes.

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Speaker 3: They're ready to pounce.

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Speaker 1: Even in this just last week or so, we've seen

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Speaker 1: a bunch of bunch more refis than we've had in

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Speaker 1: recent memory.

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Speaker 3: And adjustable rate mortgages, so arms, they are becoming even

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Speaker 3: more popular as well. So roughly ten percent of all

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Speaker 3: refis right now are arms, and this is in part

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Speaker 3: because they've I think they've sort of lost their Great

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Speaker 3: Recession stigma, where back then it's just like, well, you'd

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Speaker 3: be a fool to go with an ARM when you're

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Speaker 3: at like historical lows. We haven't been at historical lows

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Speaker 3: these days.

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Speaker 1: Well, And like we've talked about arms, were there were

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Speaker 1: a lot worse ARM product ARM products back then, and

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Speaker 1: they've improved significantly. And there are some arms, like we

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Speaker 1: talked about our credit union, a fifteen year arm where

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Speaker 1: the interest rate only changes one time, and so for

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Speaker 1: a lot of people giving that lower rate makes a

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Speaker 1: lot of sense.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, and with rates likely to drop an arm

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Speaker 3: might you know, might mean less need to refinance in

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Speaker 3: the future as well. That being said, you are subject

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Speaker 3: to greater levels of risk if they don't if we

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Speaker 3: don't see seat rates take down. But still I think

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Speaker 3: a question worth asking, as folks are I don't know,

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of it seems like there's a whole

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Speaker 3: lot of refinancing chum in the water. So I think

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Speaker 3: some folks might be saying, well, how often should I

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Speaker 3: be refinancing? Because oftentimes it's not like a helock. A

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Speaker 3: helock is free, that's an easy way. The race is

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Speaker 3: going down. If the rates are going down.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but when it comes to refinancing, they cost some money.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: So you know, I think you and I, Matt, we

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Speaker 1: used to kind of say, well, you probably need to

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Speaker 1: drop your interest rate by about a point to make

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Speaker 1: it worth it. But really that's a rule of thumb,

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Speaker 1: and it's hard to say that. That's not like a

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Speaker 1: hard and fast rule because it depends on a lot

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Speaker 1: of things. Right, Either might will to refit into a

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Speaker 1: lower rate, even if you can't quite save a full

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Speaker 1: point or you might want to hold off even longer

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Speaker 1: in hope, in hopes the rates go down even further

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Speaker 1: so that you're not refinancing multiple times, because it costs

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Speaker 1: money to refinance so much. Really depends even on how

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Speaker 1: long you plan to stay in the home, because if

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Speaker 1: you're like I'm probably only gonna be here for a

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Speaker 1: few more years, refinancing probably doesn't make much sense. And

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Speaker 1: the key I think is to figure out your break

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Speaker 1: even point. So will the refinance save you enough in

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Speaker 1: monthly payments to pay for those closing costs in less

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Speaker 1: than two years. If so, it might make sense. Even still,

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Speaker 1: you might want to chill for just a second and

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Speaker 1: see if rates drop a little bit lower so that

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Speaker 1: you're not kicking yourself wishing you'd waited four or five

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Speaker 1: months to refinance. And then if a refinance is right

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Speaker 1: for you, shop around. That is super key because you

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Speaker 1: can save maybe an extra eighth of a point quarter point.

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Speaker 1: Compare apples to apples and see what other lenders are

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Speaker 1: offering so that you get the best rate around, not

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Speaker 1: just a better rate.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'm with you all back you on the

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Speaker 3: two years two years time frame, because I think.

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Speaker 1: Outside of that so much of your life.

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Speaker 3: Can change, right, Like you're just guaranteeing yourself even less time,

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Speaker 3: or you're guaranteeing yourself that you've got to stay in

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Speaker 3: the house for a longer period of time, and like

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Speaker 3: in two years, man, I don't know. I think a

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Speaker 3: lot of individuals can find their life situation changing pretty

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Speaker 3: drastically within that sort of time period. Let's talk about investing, because.

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Speaker 1: Even better if you can make it payoff in a

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Speaker 1: shorter time.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, even sooner. Yeah, it makes it even more

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Speaker 3: of a slam dunk decision. But the irs, man, they

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Speaker 3: have released updated retirement account contribution limits for twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 3: Que the air horns. I'm all about this, man. Next year,

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Speaker 3: we're gonna be able to stick more money into our

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Speaker 3: workplace retirement accounts in four one ks if we're so inclined.

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Speaker 3: Four one K and four or three B contribution limits

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Speaker 3: have been bumped up by one thousand bucks, so it's

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Speaker 3: going from twenty three five hundred dollars to twenty four thousand,

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Speaker 3: five hundred dollars. The additional and roth IRA max contributions

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Speaker 3: have gone up from seven thousand dollars bumped up five

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Speaker 3: hundred bucks to seventy five hundred dollars. HSA limits went

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Speaker 3: up as well by a couple hundred bucks for couples,

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Speaker 3: And this is great news. And so I think one

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Speaker 3: of the reasons I'm so excited about this is because

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Speaker 3: I think what this demonstrates to me is that there

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Speaker 3: is a shift in our culture and the expectations surrounding

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Speaker 3: a retirement.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: And so back in the day, there were many more workplace,

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Speaker 3: workplace sponsored retirement plans, government sponsored pensions. Right, So like you,

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Speaker 3: you're talking about more defined benefit plans as opposed to

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Speaker 3: defined contribution plans. And by seeing this uptick, it shifts

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Speaker 3: the responsibility slightly to individuals and companies as well, right,

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Speaker 3: because we are seeing the uptick when it comes to

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Speaker 3: four to one k's as well. But you might say, well,

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Speaker 3: it also has to do with inflation. And I got

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Speaker 3: curious and dug into the numbers a little bit, and

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Speaker 3: I was super shock to see that the limits back

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Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy five, let's say, on an IRA, was

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Speaker 3: fifteen hundred bucks. It took twenty five years to get

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Speaker 3: from nineteen seventy five the fifteen hundred dollar limit there

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Speaker 3: to the year two thousand, where the limit increased only

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Speaker 3: by guess one thousand dollars five hundred bucks. Wow, it

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Speaker 3: was only two thousand dollars in the year two thousand,

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Speaker 3: and then between two thousand and twenty twenty five it

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Speaker 3: increased from two thousand to seven thousand dollars, a massive uptick, right,

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Speaker 3: And if you're only looking at inflation, you might say, well,

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Speaker 3: wait a minute, guess what we had a lot of

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Speaker 3: between nineteen seventy five and the year two thousand. We

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Speaker 3: had a ton of inflation and very little inflation between

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Speaker 3: the year twenty twenty I'm sorry, between twenty and twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty five.

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Speaker 1: And so my hypothesis is that what COVID blip in there.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, but what took place more within that period

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Speaker 3: of time was just an expectation as to who was

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Speaker 3: a little bit more responsible for their retirement dollars. It's

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Speaker 3: just something I can totally get excited and be appreciative of.

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Speaker 1: So, if you're looking to figure out how much should

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Speaker 1: you should contribute to your IRA every single month in

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Speaker 1: order to max that puppy out, Matt the math says

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Speaker 1: six hundred and twenty five dollars a month.

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Speaker 2: Ooh, I like it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so nice. Nice.

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Speaker 1: Need even start setting that John calen adopilot come January

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Speaker 1: and then you'll you'll max it out by the end

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Speaker 1: of the year. So we would love ideally everyone listening

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Speaker 1: to the sound of our voices to max out there

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Speaker 1: Rath every single year. The other thing they got update

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Speaker 1: because everything's getting updated by the IRS this time of year,

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Speaker 1: was the capital gains taxes and at what levels you

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Speaker 1: pay zero, fifteen and twenty percent?

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Speaker 3: And I didn't see that.

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Speaker 1: You can make almost one hundred thousand dollars a year

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Speaker 1: now and pays zero in capital gains taxes.

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Speaker 3: Used to be like was it ninety two thousand?

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Speaker 1: And I think it's like ninety eight nine hundred? Al right,

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Speaker 1: I should have written still never down. Still glad to

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Speaker 1: see that increases.

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Speaker 3: So all the frugal, frugal early retirees out there, they're

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Speaker 3: fist pumping your.

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Speaker 1: Taxbile broker's account can be away to you might be

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Speaker 1: able to avoid the fifteen percent capital gains tax if

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Speaker 1: you're smart, If you're savvy, So should you stick more

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Speaker 1: in a low cost s and P five hundred ETF

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Speaker 1: because you have the ability to stock more into those

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Speaker 1: workplace retirement accounts. Historically it's been a pretty fantastic choice.

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Speaker 1: Even recent history has proven it to be a super

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Speaker 1: smart bet. Returns this year actually set to crush every

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Speaker 1: projection from Wall Street firms for the third year in

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Speaker 1: a row. Met Those projections continue to fail consistently, often

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Speaker 1: on the underside, sometimes on the over. But the experts

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Speaker 1: in this CNBC article experts, I should probably put that

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Speaker 1: in quotation marks. They're saying that this strategy, it's not

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Speaker 1: looking as smart moving forward, is not diversified enough, they say.

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Speaker 1: And to be honest, I think these these experts make

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Speaker 1: some reasonable points, Like one is that while you own

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Speaker 1: five hundred companies in an S and P five hundred fund,

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Speaker 1: your eggs are in fewer baskets to a certain extent

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Speaker 1: because or at least maybe like a couple of your

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Speaker 1: eggs are gargantuan and a lot of the other ones

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Speaker 1: are super duper tiny because of the massive market cap

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Speaker 1: that AI companies like Microsoft and then Video hold, So

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Speaker 1: just a few stocks really make up something like twenty

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Speaker 1: percent of your SP five hundred fund, which.

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Speaker 3: Those max seven eggs are quite large. The rest of

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Speaker 3: them are like little jelly bean eggs. It feels a

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Speaker 3: little risky.

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Speaker 1: It does feel a little risky, So I get that,

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Speaker 1: And then you know, when returns have been significantly higher

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Speaker 1: than average for many years now, a reversion to the

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Speaker 1: mean is likely. Like when you've seen outsize gains and

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Speaker 1: that historical average is something closer to ten percent. Well,

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Speaker 1: what should you expect in coming years? Well, you should

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Speaker 1: probably expect the average to level out at some point.

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Speaker 1: So should you change your strategy? This is something we

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Speaker 1: talk about regularly here on the show. We talked about

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Speaker 1: it with a Nick Majulia article that was written not

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Speaker 1: too long ago.

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Speaker 3: I think so much.

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Speaker 1: Depends on your goals, and it depends on your risk tolerance.

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Speaker 1: Those are the things you have to assess. So for

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Speaker 1: some people out there, they might say, I am too nervous.

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Speaker 1: I can't stomach the potential volatility coming down the pike.

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Speaker 1: I should make some changes. You should know yourself emotionally.

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Speaker 1: There are other solid approaches, but I think to investing.

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Speaker 1: But a knee jerk response to articles like this, that's

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Speaker 1: the thing we want people to avoid. That would be

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Speaker 1: on wise.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And in addition to that, it's been a glorious

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Speaker 3: time to be a diversified investor, but it could get

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Speaker 3: a little harder in the coming years. And also, so

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Speaker 3: like you're saying, just don't expect these incredible returns in perpetuity.

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Speaker 3: But I wanted to talk about target date funds because

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Speaker 3: they can be a really good choice for many folks

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Speaker 3: out there if you are looking for more bond exposure,

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Speaker 3: if you're looking for more international exposure. The abilit want

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Speaker 3: to be so us heavy, and yeah, I get that

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Speaker 3: desire that there's a decent argument to be made there,

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Speaker 3: but one of the things we might be seeing is

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Speaker 3: private equity it might be forcing its way into target

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Speaker 3: date funds soon, which is no bueno. And so instead

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Speaker 3: of just having the option to invest in alternative assets,

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Speaker 3: you would now be forced to own them in various

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Speaker 3: target date funds that you might own if companies like

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Speaker 3: Blackstone and Apollo have their way. There's conversations evidently that

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Speaker 3: are happening on Wall Street about including those in some

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Speaker 3: of these target day funds.

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Speaker 1: And you and I we've kind of talked about how

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Speaker 1: we don't like the idea of even alternative assets being

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Speaker 1: widely available in retirement accounts gives people maybe too much choice,

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Speaker 1: and choice it's not even really helpful for the average investor.

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Speaker 1: I think it feels even more nefarious to have them

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Speaker 1: inside of a target date fund because target date funds

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Speaker 1: feel like this set and forget its strategy for a

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Speaker 1: lot of people. Yeah, and to have you who don't

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Speaker 1: those the average investor doesn't need exposure to alternatives. If

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Speaker 1: they end up in target date funds, I think they

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Speaker 1: actually could ruin something that serves a lot of people.

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Speaker 3: Pretty well. Sure, Yeah, I don't know if I would

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Speaker 3: agree with you and say there's too much freedom. I

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Speaker 3: think you can. You should be allowed to invest.

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Speaker 1: The paradox of choice whatever anti Aldy.

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Speaker 3: Sure, But that being said, if you want the choice,

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Speaker 3: there is still another store that you can go to.

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Speaker 3: It's not forcing everybody. I don't want to force everyone

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Speaker 3: to go to ALDI because I think that they should

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Speaker 3: limit their choices, but you should have the option to.

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Speaker 3: But I do agree with you one hundred percent. The

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Speaker 3: fact that if there's private equity getting sort of like

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Speaker 3: shoved into this porkage, but they're still maintaining the target

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Speaker 3: date fund, That's where it feels it just backwards, you know,

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Speaker 3: like you know, like this feels like an instance to

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Speaker 3: where like like oil and water doesn't mix, and it

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Speaker 3: feels like they're trying to mix the two. Things like

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Speaker 3: target date funds are known for being affordable, relatively affordable

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Speaker 3: private equity, isn't.

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Speaker 1: You can see the expense ratios taking up on some

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Speaker 1: of those funds.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it does not seem like it's a good match.

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Speaker 3: And so that's an instance. It's just something that we're

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Speaker 3: going to keep an eye on because hopefully this is

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Speaker 3: an instance where we see some of the better brokerages

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Speaker 3: out there, like Vanguard and Fidelity holding the line. But

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Speaker 3: if they don't, we're going to call them out on it. Well,

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Speaker 3: but we will talk about it. And it just feels

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Speaker 3: like another way for private equity to get their hands

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Speaker 3: on your dollars. Like it used to be the rock

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Speaker 3: star fund managers it's like, Oh, that's how we can

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Speaker 3: that's how we can garner more in expenses. Now it

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Speaker 3: feels like private equity. It's like, oh, you need to

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Speaker 3: pay more for access to this opportunity to potentially experience

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Speaker 3: outside returns, just a higher.

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Speaker 1: Level of risk, or at least they had to go

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Speaker 1: court accredited investors, people who had enough income or enough

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Speaker 1: net worth and say and sell them on investing in

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Speaker 1: their scheme. And now if they're inside of target date funds,

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Speaker 1: they're getting every day people to invest in their schemes

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Speaker 1: instead of having to sell the people who really do

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Speaker 1: have the investing knowledge and ability. Because I don't feel

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Speaker 1: bad for a credit I mean I feel bad sometimes,

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Speaker 1: but I don't feel too bad for credit investors who

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Speaker 1: lose money because they invested in alternative investments. That's something

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Speaker 1: that I got into with eyes wide open, play at

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Speaker 1: your own risk. Every day investors who kind of unwinningly

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Speaker 1: are investing in alternative assets. That feels a little different

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Speaker 1: to me. Let's talk about the comeback of student loan payments.

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Speaker 1: Matt that the of those have been widely documented and

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Speaker 1: they have put many Americans between what I would call

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Speaker 1: maybe a rock and a hard place, choosing between paying

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Speaker 1: your student loans and your credit cards. It's not easy,

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Speaker 1: right if you have limited funds. And so there was

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Speaker 1: this new TransUnion survey which found that borrowers are ranking

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Speaker 1: their student loan payment ahead of their credit card payment,

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Speaker 1: which makes sense because the stakes are higher with that

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Speaker 1: student loan, especially given the wage garnishment threats that are

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Speaker 1: likely to come about the administration is set. We're even

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Speaker 1: going to hay take money out of your tax refund

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Speaker 1: if you're not paying your student loans, So the money's

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Speaker 1: gonna come out and find its way to pay off

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Speaker 1: your student loan servicer. Either way, it sounds like I

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Speaker 1: guess if you find yourself in the position where you

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Speaker 1: can't pay your debts, it's crucial to talk to a

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Speaker 1: professional at like a nonprofit. We would suggest a place

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Speaker 1: like Money Management International. They have the power to help

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Speaker 1: where other folks truly can't. There are a lot of

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Speaker 1: people purporting saying that they can help you if you

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Speaker 1: are in debt that's over your head. Most of them

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Speaker 1: will take your money and not do much help. But

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Speaker 1: the nonprofits are the way to go. Yeah, and actually, Matt,

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Speaker 1: I've heard from the folks that MMI recently, and they

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Speaker 1: told me that AI many of those AI systems like

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Speaker 1: chatchpt are recommending MMI. So, hey, chat GPT is getting

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Speaker 1: it right. People are going there and droves because they're

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Speaker 1: turning too AI for some of these questions.

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Speaker 3: Yeah to chat GPT on that one. Hey, it's not

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Speaker 3: all badge, all right. Although I've got a story here

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Speaker 3: that actually points to ALI use in a more inifarious way.

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Speaker 3: We're sadly seeing a rise in debt collection lawsuits right now.

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Speaker 3: There's some experts who are interviewed by the Times, and

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Speaker 3: they suggest that AI has made it easier for companies

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Speaker 3: out there to file a large number of these suits

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Speaker 3: and courts around the country. There's not hard evidence, but

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Speaker 3: they're pointing, certainly pointing to correlation, and they're hoping the

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Speaker 3: research will follow soon. But debt collectors are often able

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Speaker 3: to buy pass due debt for pennies on the dollar.

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Speaker 3: They file a suit and they get a judgment. This

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Speaker 3: is why it is so crucial to respond to any

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Speaker 3: legal notice that comes your way, even if you don't

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Speaker 3: think you've ever done business with that company, that particular company,

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Speaker 3: because guess what, well, it's already been sold. That's been

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Speaker 3: what's it called when they when the creditor where they

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Speaker 3: market is something that is not collectible or they think.

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Speaker 1: It's they write it off basically and they sell it

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Speaker 1: for again. The company contacting you could be the most

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Speaker 1: likely the debt collection agency. And yeah, you didn't new

437
00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,120
Speaker 1: business with them. You did this with a hospital group

438
00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,400
Speaker 1: who sold this debt to them and that's why they're

439
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 1: in possession of that debt. Now, that's why they're reaching

440
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,080
Speaker 1: out to you, even though you haven't heard their name. Yeah,

441
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:08,560
Speaker 1: and which makes it Yeah, I get it's weird as

442
00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:09,280
Speaker 1: it could.

443
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,960
Speaker 3: Be, could be totally legit though, but if you don't

444
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,040
Speaker 3: even show up to defend yourself, though, you may lose

445
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,359
Speaker 3: by default. If you do show up, even just being there,

446
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,880
Speaker 3: the debt collectors, they can easily lose. They had an

447
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,320
Speaker 3: example of that just because they don't have the right paperwork.

448
00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,320
Speaker 3: They can't support because they're not organized enough. And this

449
00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:32,199
Speaker 3: happens regularly and they don't have a case because they

450
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,840
Speaker 3: don't have any evidence. You win and you didn't have

451
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,240
Speaker 3: to do much. Yeah, you just have to know your rights.

452
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,000
Speaker 3: And a lot of this comes down to what the

453
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,919
Speaker 3: laws are in the state where it is that you reside.

454
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,760
Speaker 3: Because let's say this does good to court, you're not showing.

455
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,119
Speaker 3: I mean, they could garnish your wages in some states.

456
00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,320
Speaker 3: They there can like if you're a no show in

457
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,160
Speaker 3: some states, you can even be arrested. And I don't

458
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 3: think that's likely. And this isn't legal advice because I

459
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 3: don't think that they would do that because then you're

460
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 3: even less likely to be able to pay fay that debt.

461
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,399
Speaker 3: Put in my high art. We don't have debtor's prisons,

462
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,000
Speaker 3: but that is a possibility, So you need to know

463
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 3: the laws of your state.

464
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're actually going to talk a little bit more

465
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:14,720
Speaker 1: about AI and chatbots in just a bit. But Matt,

466
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:16,399
Speaker 1: there was a new story about buy now, Pay later.

467
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,159
Speaker 1: Let's talk about that one when we get back from

468
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:26,359
Speaker 1: the breaks.

469
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 3: All right, buddy, we are back from the break and

470
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 3: everyone knows that this is typically What if we switched

471
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,399
Speaker 3: it up and decided to move the ludicrous headline of

472
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 3: the week from our Friday flight? People would revolt? Would they?

473
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:37,919
Speaker 3: That's exactly what I was gonna say.

474
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 1: What if we instituted a new segment that was more

475
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,360
Speaker 1: happy and shiny? Oh you think, like, what were those

476
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,600
Speaker 1: websites in back in the day and they only had

477
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:46,680
Speaker 1: good published good news?

478
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 3: They probably did they fold? Because yeah, unfortunately, yes, yeah,

479
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 3: if it doesn't bleed, it doesn't lead. No. The lucris

480
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 3: of the ludicrous headline of the Week came from The

481
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 3: Times and listener Dan He actually sent this one our away.

482
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:03,880
Speaker 3: I think he said he was getting just stressed out,

483
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 3: just reading it and so much of.

484
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,440
Speaker 1: It, it was tough, man, These individual lives ruined because

485
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 1: of buy now, Pay later.

486
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:13,239
Speaker 3: Also, whoever did the photography for the story too, Like

487
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,640
Speaker 3: they're showing people with all the stuff that they purchased.

488
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 3: This is this is a buy now, pay later story,

489
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 3: But they're just surrounded by all their stuff and even

490
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 3: just being surrounded by that much stuff that you know

491
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 3: is financed. I think maybe I started to feel it too,

492
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,639
Speaker 3: started getting a little sweat eazy. Yeah, But the headline

493
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 3: it read they got to live a life of luxury.

494
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 3: Then came the fine print. More folks are they're facing

495
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 3: the music after embracing buy now, pay later, full on klarna,

496
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,919
Speaker 3: after pay their ilk, they are more than happy to

497
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,360
Speaker 3: oblige with limits that far surpass what most credit card

498
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 3: issuers will give you and what seems like a harmless

499
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,159
Speaker 3: way to buy stuff that you want. Man, they can

500
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 3: be far worse if you can't pay the bill. You know,

501
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 3: it seems like such an easy, innocent way to do

502
00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,199
Speaker 3: the pay in for it's free and so easy, so

503
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 3: chill well could go wrong. It's such a slippery slope

504
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 3: because the interest fees are much worse than credit cards

505
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 3: up to thirty six percent they can accrue if you

506
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 3: can't make the payments on time, and then the late

507
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 3: the late fees they can pile up as well. And

508
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:16,360
Speaker 3: I don't want to be those guys, Joel, but we've

509
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,640
Speaker 3: been we've been warning folks about buy now, pay later,

510
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,639
Speaker 3: basically since they came on the scene, and it feels

511
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 3: like we're this is a case of I told you so.

512
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:26,679
Speaker 3: But I think a lot of it just has to

513
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 3: do with the fact that there are folks who just

514
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 3: haven't learned their lessons yet when it comes to buy now,

515
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 3: pay later, because it's novel, it's new, you know, like it.

516
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 1: Makes sense, it was attractive and that people were like, yeah,

517
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 1: I'll give it a shot, whereas like.

518
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 3: Credit cards, they don't feel as attractive anymore. Like people

519
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,640
Speaker 3: who have used credit cards, I think maybe they've learned

520
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 3: their lesson, they've gotten they've gotten burned, right, And so

521
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 3: you've got like I'm thinking of the stories have been

522
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,120
Speaker 3: around for decades. Next, you've got a millennials, older millennials,

523
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 3: and they're like, Okay, if they've gotten burned, they noticed

524
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 3: it's shy away from that, or they've learned that they

525
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,239
Speaker 3: can handle it. Well, that's my hope at least, And

526
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 3: it seems like gen Z in particular, they maybe haven't

527
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 3: learned that lesson quite as much, and there's more or

528
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 3: folks flock into the binyl.

529
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: Payment and I hope, I hope that they can learn

530
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 1: the lesson the easy way by hearing us rail against

531
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: the buy now, pay later companies and how nefarious they are.

532
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: And even though it seems it seems like they're trying

533
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 1: to be trying to be helpful, it's a behavioral nightmare

534
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 1: for people. So again, a world where you can delay

535
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: paying for anything human behavior to consume is like kicking

536
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,400
Speaker 1: into another gear, just causing people to be like give

537
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 1: me myself, yeah, I'll take it and lay away. Back

538
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: in the day. At least you used to have to

539
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 1: like wait to get your item, so you paid the money,

540
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 1: are you paid in installments and then finally you got

541
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: your item at the end of it. But when you

542
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: get your item first and then you're like, oh, that

543
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: was easy, I didn't even have to pay for the

544
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,919
Speaker 1: full price yet, Yeah, let me go do that again,

545
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: And it just creates a six cycle. At least it's

546
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,360
Speaker 1: for a lot of people where they buy so much

547
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 1: stuff that they can't afford. It's true, it's tough to watch,

548
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: and it just I think part of it is like

549
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 1: feels like fake money. That's what it feels like when

550
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 1: you use buy now, pay later and you just keep buying,

551
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: but not in like the nick Maduli just keep buying

552
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: sense of the phrase. And that can wreck your finances, right,

553
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 1: That spending hangover can leave this emotional and financial scars

554
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 1: for people. And at the end of the day, you

555
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: limit your choices because you've spent money that you don't have.

556
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: It flies in the face of personal finance one oh one.

557
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 1: And not to be too drastic, Matt, but this to

558
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: me kind of feels like we're creating a generation of alcoholics,

559
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: but binge buyers instead, which is like less stigmatized. I

560
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: want to add more stigma to the binge buying thing

561
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: because it's so detrimental to human flourishing and to your

562
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: ability to have money in the bank account. We've even

563
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: seen people make it steam like it's empowering, but I

564
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 1: think the opposite is true. By now, paid later is

565
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 1: disempowering to individuals.

566
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, and here's some basic old school advice, just don't

567
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 3: buy it if you can't afford it, because unfortunately, we've

568
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 3: got one more story that we want to get to

569
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 3: where buy now, Pay later has found its way into

570
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 3: paying for travel.

571
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: The many tentacles of buy nowaylater.

572
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 3: Nerd Wallet they found that one in five travelers are

573
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 3: planning to use buy now, pay later to spread out

574
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 3: their payments for the next trip, the next vacation that

575
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 3: they're looking to take, and almost half of travel providers

576
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 3: offer that ability.

577
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 1: Now see it on your friendly Airline website instead of

578
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: aware Everywhere Airline credit card. You can also pay in

579
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 1: easy installments.

580
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, but of course buying travel via by not pay later,

581
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 3: it creates even more problems because if there are issues

582
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 3: with your travel itinerary, you're going to have far less recourse.

583
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 3: And you know, we're just talking about credit cards. This

584
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 3: is an instance where credit cards actually shine because there

585
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 3: will rewards and the benefits that you receive, the protections

586
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,360
Speaker 3: that you receive if that just mentioned trip gets canceled

587
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 3: or delayed. You can get rental car insurance, you can

588
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 3: get travel insurance. There are all of these different travel

589
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 3: benefits that you receive if you use the right card,

590
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:55,439
Speaker 3: especially when it comes to travel. That's one of the

591
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 3: still one of the silver linings of credit cards in

592
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 3: the travel space, Specifically, if you have a travel card

593
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 3: and you are using it for a whole lot of travel,

594
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 3: and that is not the case with buy now, pay later.

595
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 3: All you're getting there is just the ability to not

596
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,199
Speaker 3: pay for it like right then, right, Like you just

597
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 3: have the ability to pay for it in the for

598
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 3: easy installments, just to.

599
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: Delay, that's all. But yeah, you're right. When you use

600
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: the credit card, there's a whole lot else you get

601
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:21,719
Speaker 1: with it. Yeah, we still want you to use it wisely,

602
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 1: and we only want you to use it if you

603
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: have the money in the bank account. We don't want

604
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 1: you to go into debt for a trip, whether it's

605
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: with buy now, pay later or a credit card. Yeah,

606
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: but the credit card is at least an understandable way

607
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: to purchase something, and buy now, pay later, to me,

608
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 1: is not Matt. The Washington Post had an article about

609
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: landlines making the comeback, and at first I was like,

610
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 1: what please say so? Partly because land lines can be expensive,

611
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 1: like something like thirty to forty bucks a month if

612
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,719
Speaker 1: you get a landline through the local phone company. I

613
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 1: just didn't realize people did that anymore, and if you are,

614
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 1: if you do still pay for a landline, strongly reconsider it.

615
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: But they've talked about actually a new startup though, is

616
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: really interesting called tin Can, which is offering eighties looking

617
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: telephones that run over Wi Fi then cost ten bucks

618
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 1: a month, which sounds reasonable. It's got the curly cord

619
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: and everything. Yes, it does, Oh my gosh.

620
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 3: It's the real question is can you can you get

621
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 3: an aftermarket super long curly cord that can stretch all

622
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 3: the way across the kitchen? Yes, that's right, that's the eighties.

623
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: I'm sure some people are back that I love who

624
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: are listening to this just don't know what we're talking about.

625
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 1: So you should go to that website and.

626
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 3: Check it out. We'll link to it. No, they've watched movies,

627
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 3: they if they haven't experienced it themselves, you're.

628
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 1: Probably right and so but tin Can's kind of cool,

629
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: Like I get what people are going after. They're what

630
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: they're trying to do is to break the smartphone addiction.

631
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: And so if your kid, if you've got a kid

632
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: who you want to be able to talk to their

633
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: friends and stuff like that after school, but you're not

634
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: ready for them to have a smartphone, and not even

635
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: from a cost perspective, because Matt, you and I we've

636
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: talked about how cheap it can be, like US Mobile

637
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: has eight dollars a month plans for like unlimited talk

638
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: and text and two gigs of data. That's cheaper than

639
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: ten can. But it does doesn't matter because for a

640
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 1: lot of parents it's more about it's a protectionary mechanism

641
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: to not bring the smartphone into their lives. And I

642
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: think something like this could make a lot of sense.

643
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: Allow your kid to feel like they kind of like

644
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: we were able to do back in the day in

645
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: middle school, call our friends and chit chat and stuff,

646
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: but without some of the downsides of full on smartphone exposure.

647
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, for that reason, this is an argument I can

648
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 3: get behind. This is the case that Jonathan Heights making

649
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 3: and the Anxious Generation. If you have a child and

650
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 3: you have not yet read that book, I think we

651
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 3: would both. Would you recommend it as well? I haven't

652
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 3: read it.

653
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: You haven't know well, I've listened to him interviewed, you know,

654
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: you know the Prince. I know the principles and I

655
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: am pretty darn aligned exactly.

656
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 3: But it's also hard for me to face the idea

657
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 3: because the phone, even though it is retro cool looking,

658
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,479
Speaker 3: it's still seventy five bucks. Yeah, which I'm like, come on, like,

659
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 3: I would still rather just put that seventy five bucks

660
00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 3: towards me upgrading my iPhone and let it one of

661
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 3: the kids, you know, be able to use that, like

662
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 3: to have their own phone that they can do a

663
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 3: Wi Fi based call. But I think there is something.

664
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 3: What is here is the fact that you're kind of

665
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 3: encouraging or I guess in this case, you're not giving

666
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 3: your kid another option to communicate with your friends other

667
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 3: than to talk, which is something that I can totally

668
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 3: get behind. I've not thought about that. I've not thought

669
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 3: about how when we were literally talking with our friends,

670
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 3: there weren't texting, There weren't emojis that were dropping into

671
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 3: the text, or dropping the dookie emoji on someone's head

672
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 3: like on the like in the video chat. All these

673
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 3: dumb things that can just undermine the quality of the conversation.

674
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 3: And it really does make me want to say to

675
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 3: our seventh grader the next time that she says, hey,

676
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 3: can I get on the phone, because we've got a

677
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 3: little dumb down cell phone that we keep in the

678
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 3: kitchen when she says, hey, can I get on there?

679
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 3: Because she normally gets on there to check messages, I

680
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 3: think I'm going to encourage her and say, hey, you

681
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 3: can get on there, but only if you are looking

682
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 3: to call on you one of your friends to talk

683
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 3: with them. And maybe this is a conversation I have

684
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 3: with other parents too, because I want the kids to

685
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 3: be doing that more more of that, because one of

686
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 3: the things on the I talks about is asynchronous communication,

687
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 3: and so there's something that you lose when you send

688
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 3: a message and then you don't have to respond in

689
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 3: real time as opposed to the like what you and

690
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 3: I are having right here, just the ability to end

691
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 3: real time sorry what you say communicate to each other

692
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 3: is so important.

693
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: Well, it makes me I think, especially for girls in

694
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: this age, in this age range too, that our oldest

695
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: where our oldest are, those group texts can feel like

696
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: like almost like an at home form of bullying. It

697
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: can be a really tough thing to experience there, some

698
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 1: of those girl group chats. I just know from hearing

699
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: my daughter talk about it and hearing some of the

700
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: other parents for some of them suck. Yeah, it can

701
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: be really tough and so having a one on one

702
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: conversation with a friend feels very different.

703
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 3: You're not gonna get doesn't it nay feel humanizing? Yeah,

704
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,479
Speaker 3: Like just even talking about it, I can. It just

705
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 3: sounds so much more relatable, more humanizing. And that's I

706
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 3: think what we're looking and for when it comes to

707
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 3: our technology.

708
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: And I love the meta thing we're doing right now.

709
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: We're just talking about talk talking about My son asked

710
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: me about He literally prompted the conversation about conversations, and

711
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: I thought it was like, I love having that.

712
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 3: I love having that child.

713
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: All right, buddy, we're about to go do He was like, Dad,

714
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: tell me more about conversations and let's talk about that.

715
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: And it was like it was super fun, just like

716
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: what gives a conversation? Meaning he's six and he's asking

717
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: questions about this man, that's fun. Maybe we should offer

718
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: one more morning, Matt, because like for parents with kids,

719
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: depending on your kids ages, you might want to also

720
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: rethink how much accent and how much accent they have

721
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: to a laptop and a computer as well, because there

722
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: are a million ways to get in trouble online. I

723
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: will not tell you what my child googled at school.

724
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: The principle reached out to us, was like, she misspelled it,

725
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: which is funny and it is a body part.

726
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 3: Tell me the spelling after we stopped recording.

727
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: Oh well, but so this happened at school under supervisions

728
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: and she didn't get into too much trouble and then

729
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: you know, the filter blocked it out. But this, like,

730
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 1: kids are curious about stuff. I don't even think it

731
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 1: was in the farious things she was trying to do.

732
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: She's just curious because kids are curious. So obviously, what

733
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: does that look like she did in trouble we had,

734
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: we had to have a chat. But let's add maybe

735
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: something else that you want your kids to avoid, which

736
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: is chatbots. And not just because we don't want your

737
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: kid to have fake digital friends, although I still put

738
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: that in the weird camp. I don't I personally don't

739
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: want any fake digital friends, but also because you're delivering

740
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: more personal information into the hands of advertisers when you

741
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: strike up more conversations with chatbots online. The Verge had

742
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: an article documenting how Meta is going to use your

743
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: AI chats to personalize your feed, serving you have advertisements

744
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: based on your interactions with those said chatbots. You cannot

745
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: opt out of this, and Matt, this is just another

746
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: kind of check in the Brave New World camp. What

747
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 1: have we entered into?

748
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:55,719
Speaker 3: I am uh.

749
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: It makes me want to stay away because I don't

750
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 1: want to deliver any information that the chatbots are going

751
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: to recognize. And then every Facebook esque product they own,

752
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: whatsapped too, is going to serve me up ads based

753
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: on personal interactions I've had with the chatbot where I

754
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: kind of thought they were off limits to advertisers. But no,

755
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: of course they're not.

756
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 3: You didn't you weren't expecting all the chatbot to go squealing.

757
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: People are using chatbots for relational purposes, more, for therapy purposes, more,

758
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: They're giving away more personal information on these things, And

759
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: I think you just have to be wary from the

760
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: get go about how much it's different to ask a

761
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: question about a research paper you're writing. Right, that seems

762
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 1: like less potentially harmful to you, but if you are

763
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 1: using it for some of those other more highly relational purposes,

764
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,959
Speaker 1: you might find it super creepy what you get served

765
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 1: up in the aftermath.

766
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 3: Okay, So all on that note, our last related story here,

767
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 3: did you see the story about verb dot verb ai? Oh? Yeah,

768
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 3: which is a basically a data harvester. You download it, it

769
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,720
Speaker 3: puts a tracker on your device, and you get paid

770
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 3: for letting them track you.

771
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 1: Thoughts, what do you think for letting them watch everything

772
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: you do on your smart Well, you search.

773
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 3: Where you go, your browsing habits, I mean, how long

774
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 3: you stay on certain apps? Literally everything?

775
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess the only thing they're not supposedly scraping

776
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: is what's taking with your.

777
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 3: Bank exactly that bank information. I don't know. Man.

778
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 1: That creased me out too. And it feels really different

779
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: than going to donate plasma for money.

780
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 3: Well that was okay, so yeah they actually, yeah you

781
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 3: heard the story. They've actually got that there in the story.

782
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 3: And like that's an instance where it feels like the

783
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 3: equivalent isn't that you are going to donate plasma. It's

784
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 3: it's almost as if the equivalent would be that our

785
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 3: like our current data scraping industry is sort of like

786
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,479
Speaker 3: you going to your doctor and them running a check

787
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,240
Speaker 3: on you. You know, you're there for you're annual physical

788
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 3: and they say, oh, you know what, we need to

789
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 3: actually sample some of your blood and you're sitting there

790
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 3: and you're hooked up for like thirty minutes and you're like,

791
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 3: what are you guys doing? Yeah, and they're like, oh, nothing,

792
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 3: and they're like secretly harvesting your blood. That's what it

793
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 3: feels like now versus going to a plasma center where

794
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 3: you are knowingly sitting down yours. Yes, where it feels

795
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 3: intentional And so me personally, am I gonna do this?

796
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 3: Am I gonna download this app? And you know, they're

797
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 3: calling it like a new gen Z side gig where

798
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,879
Speaker 3: you can make fifty bucks a month. I don't think

799
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 3: I'm gonna do it, but I think there's a there's

800
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 3: a younger map that would have considered, like seriously considered it,

801
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 3: maybe checked it out and seeing to see how it

802
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 3: would have interfered. Because it feels like it's bringing that

803
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 3: selling of personal information out into the open, I think,

804
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 3: and that's the kind of transparency that I can get behind.

805
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 3: I think that's a great point. I think, especially if

806
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 3: you're alright, if you're using social media apps and you're

807
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 3: not asking it to track you, they've already got your information.

808
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 1: And you're just not getting paid for right when you

809
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: when the product that you're using is free, then you're

810
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 1: the product and you just kind of don't know all

811
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: the ways they're accessing your personal data. At least this

812
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: is a voluntary exchange and you're getting paid for your data. Still,

813
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: this is something I wouldn't participate in because I don't

814
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,280
Speaker 1: want some app sitting in the background on my phone

815
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 1: checking out every single thing I do. And you know,

816
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: I don't know what percentage of the profits I'm getting

817
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: as the product that they're mining. But it doesn't seem

818
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: like it's enough to compel me to sign up.

819
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm with you. I'm not gonna do it, but

820
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 3: it's interesting to know that there is an option. There's

821
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 3: somebody out there who thinks that this could be something

822
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 3: that would succeed, no doubt.

823
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 1: All Right, that's gonna do it. We'll put links to

824
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: in the show notes to some of the websites and

825
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 1: resources we mentioned on thebuarries. The website, of course, as

826
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 1: you all know, is howtomoney dot com. If you want

827
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: to get in touch with us, if you want to

828
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,760
Speaker 1: send Matt an email, how to moneypod at gmail dot com.

829
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 1: Tell Matt how.

830
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 3: Call me out. I'll get back to you.

831
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 1: Excellent you think he is. Or if you've had something

832
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 1: dumb that you didn't agree with today, let me know

833
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: that too.

834
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 3: Don't holler me though, just kidding. You can email with you.

835
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 1: Oh, I have a great weekend. Until next time, best

836
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: friends out, best friends Out,