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Speaker 1: Lute force. If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to soft web Radio Special Operations Military Nails

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Speaker 1: on straight talk with the guys in the community.

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Speaker 2: Hey, what's going on? It's rad and welcome back to

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Speaker 2: another episode of soft rep Radio. But before I introduce

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Speaker 2: the guests that I have on today, I want to

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Speaker 2: let you guys know to go check out the mert

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Speaker 2: shop all right at soft rep dot com. Go check

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Speaker 2: out the merch store. Keep purchasing those cool things that

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Speaker 2: we've got coming out for you all the time, the

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Speaker 2: newest items. And then also soft rep dot com for

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Speaker 2: Slash book Club, so it's a book hyphen club. Just

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Speaker 2: go check out the Software book Club. Look that up,

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Speaker 2: Google it and who knows you might find this next author,

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Speaker 2: Curtis Fox and his book Hybrid Warfare, who we have

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Speaker 2: on the show today in our book club. Welcome to

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Speaker 2: the show, Curtis.

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Speaker 3: How's it going ra nice to be here.

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Speaker 2: Hey, it's going great, Curtis. You've got me five y five?

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Speaker 2: I do okay, wonderful. Well, welcome. You wrote a book

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Speaker 2: called Hybrid Warfare. Because you're a former Special Operation Special

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Speaker 2: Forces soldier, I believe you're like tenth group, Is that correct?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it came from tenth Group, first fourth Battalion, and

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Speaker 4: then second Battalion. So I got out in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 2: Oh, no, twenty sixteen. What I was going to say

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Speaker 2: is what did you enlist as? Like usually you know

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Speaker 2: how old were you when you did enlist if you

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Speaker 2: don't mind, and then what did you go in initially?

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Speaker 2: As was it a Bravo eleven bravo or.

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Speaker 4: So I came in as an eighteen X ray And

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Speaker 4: so the default m O if you were to fail

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Speaker 4: out of any part of that pipeline process is leven Bravo.

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Speaker 4: But they stood up the eighteen X ray program as

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Speaker 4: a means of bringing civilian talent into the special forces community.

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Speaker 4: Prior to the War on Terror, you had to be

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Speaker 4: an E five before you could even put in a

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Speaker 4: packet to go to Special Forces selection. And then I

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Speaker 4: believe in two thousand and three or two thousand and four,

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Speaker 4: they decided that they would try to open it up

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Speaker 4: to the civilian world for people they felt were qualified.

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Speaker 4: There were a couple of key indicators that let recruiters

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Speaker 4: know they were talking to somebody who would possibly be

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Speaker 4: a qualified candidate. But I mean, there are a lot

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Speaker 4: of guys that start the eighteen X ray pipeline. They

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Speaker 4: played some call of duty and that's what they know

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Speaker 4: about it, and those guys don't do particularly well. But

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Speaker 4: there's also a lot of guys like myself that had

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Speaker 4: college degrees or maybe they'd run small businesses, and those

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Speaker 4: guys are the ones that end up doing very well.

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Speaker 4: They've they've had experiences that teach them how to think

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Speaker 4: long term, and so what they're going through in the

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Speaker 4: present is, you know, it's something that they're willing to

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Speaker 4: make the sacrifice for for a long term goal, and

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Speaker 4: those are those are usually the folks that do pretty well.

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Speaker 4: So you go through basic ait Airborne school and then

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Speaker 4: they send you to a to a preparation and conditioning course,

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Speaker 4: and then after that you go to Special Forces Assessment

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Speaker 4: selection and then if you get selected, you run the

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Speaker 4: Special Forces pipeline and you get mixed in with, you know,

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Speaker 4: all the guys that came from the army. If not,

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Speaker 4: you go to Needs of the Army. Most of those

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Speaker 4: guys are airborne qualified for that point to the eighty second.

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Speaker 4: Airborne's a pretty common place to go.

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Speaker 2: Sure, because they're already, like you know, right up their alley.

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Speaker 2: So really the eighty second, it's like if you're in

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Speaker 2: the eighty second, then you have a couple steps up

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Speaker 2: to try to go through a selections process. If you're right,

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Speaker 2: like that's a good place to be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's in.

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Speaker 4: The airborne infantry too. I mean, the the Army genuinely

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Speaker 4: can considers them to be a cut above the rest

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Speaker 4: because they're they're double volunteers in a sense. They volunteered

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Speaker 4: for the Army and then they volunteered for airborne duty,

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Speaker 4: and then they actually have to volunteer multiple times to

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Speaker 4: jump out of the plane you know, every however often

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Speaker 4: that is to stay to stay airborne qualified exactly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So they.

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Speaker 4: The Army, they treat the airborne Infantry is as you know,

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Speaker 4: an elite unit unto itself. And so when you have

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Speaker 4: somebody that's gone especially through the preparation and conditioning course

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Speaker 4: for special forces, if for whatever reason they fall out

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Speaker 4: of the pipeline, you know, maybe it's just a maturity issue,

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Speaker 4: or maybe it was an injury and they need to

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Speaker 4: they need to get fixed up before they come back.

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Speaker 4: The eighty seconds a pretty intuitive home for them and

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Speaker 4: a lot of those guys.

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Speaker 3: You know, what they need is a sergeant.

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Speaker 5: They can just sit down with them and teach them

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Speaker 5: a little while how to be a soldier, and once

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Speaker 5: they're part of that fire team or that squad for

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Speaker 5: a while, then they might think about coming back.

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Speaker 2: Do you know I of any like? Can I ask

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Speaker 2: you an off tough question about who's in SF? Like,

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Speaker 2: do you have any idea of any females that have

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Speaker 2: Is there a female SF? I know there's like some

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Speaker 2: other people who are clandestine. I guess, you know, I

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Speaker 2: don't know if they're quite SF. You know, is there

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Speaker 2: anybody who has put on the Green beret as a

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Speaker 2: female candidate? Yet?

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Speaker 4: If there's more, you know, congratulations to them. I do

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Speaker 4: expect that to be relatively rare, simply because of the

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Speaker 4: physical requirements to go through Special Forces training. My understanding

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Speaker 4: issues this individual was an Olympian level athlete in her

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Speaker 4: own right. You will, I think it will be relatively

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Speaker 4: uncommon to see women go through, you know, the Special

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Speaker 4: Forces training pipelines simply be because of the physical demands

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Speaker 4: of the pipeline. But there will always be one or two.

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Speaker 4: They're very far out on the distribution, and if you

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Speaker 4: just think about it. In terms of a basic statistical analysis,

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Speaker 4: there are always going to be you know, a few

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Speaker 4: individuals who are several standard deviations ahead of the mean,

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Speaker 4: and because of that, I mean, they're you know, those

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Speaker 4: people are out there. Just to give you an idea

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Speaker 4: of how common that can be. My understanding is when

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Speaker 4: they opened Ranger School for women, they took a selected

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Speaker 4: group of ladies in ROTC and ROTC candidates and they

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Speaker 4: put them about six hundred of them through a special

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Speaker 4: six month preparation course to get them ready physically for

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Speaker 4: Ranger School. Out of that six hundred, I think there

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Speaker 4: was like twenty five or thirty that were given the

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Speaker 4: green light to move forward, and then they were rolled

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Speaker 4: into this pre Ranger School that I think was run

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Speaker 4: by the eighty second Airborne and from pre Ranger maybe

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Speaker 4: only about half of that thirty we're given the green

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Speaker 4: light to move on to Ranger School. And then of

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Speaker 4: those fifteen to eighteen women, three graduated Ranger School. So

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Speaker 4: you know, if you simply look at that, you know,

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Speaker 4: and I may have that wrong, two hundred original it

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Speaker 4: may have been. It may have been two hundred original applicants,

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Speaker 4: but that means one, about about one and a half

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Speaker 4: percent out.

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Speaker 2: Of about six hundred original applicants. That's almost, according to

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Speaker 2: the song, one out of let's see it. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's think a song where it says, you know, one

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Speaker 2: hundred middle tests today only three. So let's look at

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Speaker 2: the percentage there. So at three percent rate will pass

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Speaker 2: females coming two hundred applicants, let's go at that number

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Speaker 2: three of them qualifying, I'd say they're above the grade

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Speaker 2: of the song. That's awesome, now, I'd be really you

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Speaker 2: know if you think about the song, right, Barry Sadler, Well,

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Speaker 2: that's super awesome. I want to let my listener know

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Speaker 2: that like being a United States Special Forces Green Beret,

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Speaker 2: you know, is something that it's an Olympian athlete in itself.

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Speaker 2: Like you said she was an Olympian athlete. Well, you know,

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Speaker 2: growing up with the father who was SF, it was

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Speaker 2: always like, hey, come on, Aaron, we're gonna go I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna go run. And so I would ride my bike

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Speaker 2: while dad would go rock run around hill Air Force

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Speaker 2: Base in Utah here and airman would We were running

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Speaker 2: up this hill and it's kind of a big incline

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Speaker 2: and we were just going up at and it's a

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Speaker 2: normal thing for him. And someone pulled over and said

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Speaker 2: you need to ride up onto the base and he's like, no,

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Speaker 2: I'm good. He's just chugging right along up this hill

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Speaker 2: to go around and go back home because he's Army

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Speaker 2: and we were outside of an Air Force base, and

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Speaker 2: so everybody was thinking he was probably Air Force running

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Speaker 2: to the base with this. I don't know. It is

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Speaker 2: an interesting you know. I always walked around with him

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Speaker 2: holding his hand, thinking how come everybody doesn't have a

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Speaker 2: green beret at the base, especially at the Air Force base.

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Speaker 2: I was like, Dad, how come these guys don't have

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Speaker 2: a beret like you? And they'd walk out and put

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Speaker 2: their trucker cap on. I'm like, why are they putting

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Speaker 2: a trucker cap on? I don't understand what all these

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Speaker 2: big letters on there. It was just a different world

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Speaker 2: for a kid raised under the Green Beret flag, right.

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Speaker 2: So I just want to let you know you're you

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Speaker 2: guys are athletes. You're extream athletes. You guys are drinking

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Speaker 2: liquid protein to keep your bodies moving forward, and like

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Speaker 2: doing all of the hard marathons and you're out there,

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Speaker 2: you know, just breaking your feet and not saying nothing

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Speaker 2: about it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I tell you what, the people that might really

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Speaker 4: get my admiration are the guys that stick with it

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Speaker 4: and do it for twenty or thirty years, and you

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Speaker 4: know when they get out, Man, the amount of abuse

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Speaker 4: that your body is taking, when you're pushing at that

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Speaker 4: in your late thirties and early forties and even going

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Speaker 4: into your fifties. The guys there are guys, man, that

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Speaker 4: they will still blow you away, you know. And how

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Speaker 4: quick they can crush a you know, five mile run

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Speaker 4: at fifty five years old. Serious, and you know, I

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Speaker 4: can't believe that some guys can perform at that level

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Speaker 4: that late in life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a mind game. They just know it.

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Speaker 2: They just got it. They're just made to walk in

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Speaker 2: the boots that they wear. And you know, there's a

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Speaker 2: story out here of a guy that was retired, but

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Speaker 2: for like three four months he was still shuffling up

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Speaker 2: to jump, but he had retired, but no one said nothing.

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Speaker 2: They're like, didn't so. And then finally the what I

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Speaker 2: understood from the colonel was someone said, didn't so and

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Speaker 2: so retire like three months ago? Man? And they're like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: so he had to go approach him and say, hey,

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Speaker 2: you keep shuffling up to go jump on drills, But

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Speaker 2: these guys are just living that life. What do you

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Speaker 2: do with a guy like that, you know who his

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Speaker 2: whole life is, you know, Dale Pressel, to free the oppressed,

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Speaker 2: to like have this teacher mindset, to teach others to

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Speaker 2: be you know, free for themselves, free thinking. How where

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Speaker 2: does that guy go who's still try to shuffle up?

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Speaker 4: Well, I tell you who who snatches up a lot

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Speaker 4: of them when they get out of service is professions

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Speaker 4: that have a they're very high stress, and they require

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Speaker 4: individuals that are okay with working unorthodox hours. Is the

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Speaker 4: first one that comes to mind is investment banking. So

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Speaker 4: you know, when I got out, the first place I

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Speaker 4: went was to do my NBA at Georgetown and then

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Speaker 4: you know, I specialized in financial services. The number of

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Speaker 4: guys I knew that were in there from the soft community,

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Speaker 4: or from the Marines, or you know, actually they're even

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Speaker 4: a couple of you know, silent service, you know, Navy

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Speaker 4: submariners in there.

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Speaker 3: These guys are.

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Speaker 4: Very used to working weird hours under an enormous amount

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Speaker 4: of stress. And you know, if you're working in investment banking.

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Speaker 4: You can be working eighty to nine hours a week

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Speaker 4: on a regular basis for you know, and the burnout

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Speaker 4: rate is very.

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Speaker 3: Very high.

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Speaker 4: And you know they're looking for people that fit the

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Speaker 4: the exact same personality bill it as a lot of

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Speaker 4: these you know, elite special operations communities, so you know

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Speaker 4: there there are places for them to go.

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Speaker 2: You're right, you know, Like I was thinking about my dad.

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Speaker 2: He went through his MBA in business and finance and communications,

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Speaker 2: so it's in human resources, right, So again you're you're

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Speaker 2: exactly Yeah, I know it's true. Yeah he did. He

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Speaker 2: was working on his doctor until his heart really started

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Speaker 2: to stop that process. Yeah, heart surgeries and everything, but

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Speaker 2: he was chasing his degree up to his doctorate until

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Speaker 2: he passed.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, hardcore, very cool.

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Speaker 4: I tell you what, Man, in my heart of hearts,

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Speaker 4: I really really want to run into like a mall

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Speaker 4: cop one time that was like, you know, an airborne

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Speaker 4: ranger and like he's he's you know, driving around in

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Speaker 4: a golf cart now chasing kids when they mess up

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Speaker 4: with Macy's or something like that, and that person must

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Speaker 4: be out there, but I've never he's just.

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Speaker 2: Trying to hold onto that uniform and that gigline and

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Speaker 2: just make sure that everything's still good to go. Hey,

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Speaker 2: we need that guy on the front lines of the

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Speaker 2: malls these days. That's the guy I want to driving

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Speaker 2: the golf cart. Give me Chuck Norris, Holy cow, Oh

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Speaker 2: my gosh. Now your book Hybrid Warfare. But writing a

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Speaker 2: book seems kind of what I get to interview you

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Speaker 2: guys about. There's a lot of you know, special operations

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Speaker 2: and veterans who are into writing their thoughts and bringing

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Speaker 2: out what their knowledge is. And it's like, I should,

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Speaker 2: you know, make a legacy, continue on with what I

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Speaker 2: know and put it somewhere in a book. Whatever your

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Speaker 2: thoughts may be, right, people can read it and understand

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Speaker 2: it for their own words, and then of course fact

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Speaker 2: check anybody's book out there, right, whatever you read, just

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Speaker 2: just go read a book, right, I'm all about that.

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Speaker 2: I like to read books. Now, I'm going to keep

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Speaker 2: kind of talking here about Hybrid Warfare The Russian Approach

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Speaker 2: to Strategic Competition and Conventional Military Conflict by Curtis L. Fox,

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Speaker 2: who is now author former Green Beret Olympian athlete. In

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Speaker 2: my mind, okay, I'm just going to give him that credit.

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Speaker 2: So what the book Overview says, here is dive into

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Speaker 2: the shadowy world of Russian military strategy in hybrid warfare.

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Speaker 2: In hybrid warfare, the Russian approach to strategic competition and

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Speaker 2: conventional military conflict, you are not just reading a book.

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Speaker 2: You're embarking on a gripping journey through the dark corridors

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Speaker 2: of Russian military strategy, where intrigue and danger lurk at

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Speaker 2: every turn, From the enigmatic Little Green Men to the

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Speaker 2: chilling echoes of poisoned doorknobs. This book unveils the cloak

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Speaker 2: of mystery shrouding Russians approach to the global power. Authored

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Speaker 2: by Curtis L. Fox. Our guest here are a former

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Speaker 2: Green Beret, Russian Speaker, tenth Special Forces Group alumni. Book

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Speaker 2: is a masterclass in strategic analysis. Fox skillfully connects the

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Speaker 2: dots here from the era of Peter the Great to

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Speaker 2: the modern day. Is it what is it? Machinations of

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Speaker 2: Vladimir Putin?

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Speaker 3: Yep, that's yep, you got it.

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Speaker 2: You know he's a dick. Okay, I'm just gonna say

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Speaker 2: how it is.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: I grew up in a warsaw family, you know, growing

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Speaker 2: up in the eighties and nineties. My dad being all

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Speaker 2: Green Beret and learning all the tanks and all the

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Speaker 2: different weaponry, and the Cold War doesn't ever have seemed

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Speaker 2: to have stopped. It still seems it's the same weaponry,

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Speaker 2: same aks, same you know, cold furry hats on their heads,

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Speaker 2: standing in the you know, red square with you know,

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Speaker 2: saluting one guy who has the power over all the people.

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Speaker 2: An auto cross auto autoocracy, I believe, where he's just

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Speaker 2: the guy in charge with a few other people who

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Speaker 2: are running the town. Let's talk about it.

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Speaker 4: Sure, and well, you know, the first thing the Russians

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Speaker 4: would say, you know, is who told you that the

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Speaker 4: Cold War was over? They see the Cold War as

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Speaker 4: unfinished business in a lot of ways. But it actually

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Speaker 4: runs deeper than that the Russians are pursuing. It wouldn't

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Speaker 4: It wouldn't matter who is in power in the Kremlin,

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Speaker 4: even if the Russia was a democracy, which I don't

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Speaker 4: think is ever going to be on the table, at

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Speaker 4: least not in my lifetime. The Russians, by their geographic

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Speaker 4: location and the nature of the land that they sit on,

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Speaker 4: have always needed to expand in order to survive, and

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Speaker 4: so the rut of ethnicity when it emerged in the

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Speaker 4: ninth century has only ever been doing that. And when

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Speaker 4: it runs into another neighboring tribe or people, they either

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Speaker 4: you know, subsume them or subordinate them, or conquer them

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Speaker 4: in one form or another until the empire can expand.

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Speaker 4: And that's when you're located on the vast flat northern

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Speaker 4: Eurasian step, that's really the only options. There are no

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Speaker 4: geographic barriers like the Alps, there are no major bodies

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Speaker 4: of water that really separate you from the neighboring peoples.

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Speaker 4: And so they pursued that strategy for you know, hundreds

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Speaker 4: and hundreds of years. And during that process there were

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Speaker 4: there were times where the Russian people themselves were conquered.

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Speaker 4: They were conquered by the Mongols. And what merged under

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Speaker 4: Peter the Great when he came to power was a

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Speaker 4: strategy where Russia was finally large enough to start trying

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Speaker 4: to plug the holes on its periphery, and so it

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Speaker 4: had gotten big enough where you could expand and to

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Speaker 4: hit those hard geographic barriers, whether that's the Caucasus Mountains

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Speaker 4: in the south, or the Baltic Sea or the Black Sea,

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Speaker 4: or you know, even pushing more eastward you could or

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Speaker 4: more westward, you could look at the Carpathian Mountains, you

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Speaker 4: could look at the what is the Vulgar, the Vogelsberg Mountains.

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Speaker 4: You know, once you're in eastern Germany, you know their

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Speaker 4: strategy by the end of the Cold War was to

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Speaker 4: forward station heavy ground forces there alongside tactical nuclear ordinance.

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Speaker 4: They had successfully condensed many, many thousands of miles of

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Speaker 4: borders down to just several hundred miles of terrain where

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Speaker 4: they needed to be able to station military forces to defend.

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Speaker 4: When you have blockades like the Gobi Desert in the

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Speaker 4: far east and then the Caucasus Mountains in the south,

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Speaker 4: you know that you can't march an army across. And

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Speaker 4: so that's how the Russians kind of play the game.

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Speaker 4: That entire security environment and it reached its apoge under

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Speaker 4: Joseph Stalin. But that entire security environment collapsed in nineteen

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Speaker 4: ninety one. All of the Warsaw packed states and the former

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Speaker 4: Soviet republics all broke off. They had what the Russians

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Speaker 4: would call color revolutions, which basically means that some sort

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Speaker 4: of a populist sometimes liberals, sometimes not, but some form

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Speaker 4: of a populist government came to power, you know, and

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Speaker 4: they basically, you know, mobilized, you know, a plurality of

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Speaker 4: the people to overthrow the standing communist regime which was

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Speaker 4: favorable to Moscow. Once that happened, they lost all of

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Speaker 4: that defense in depth. And Sivladimir Putin is he's pursuing

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Speaker 4: that strategy again and trying to restore those that the

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Speaker 4: Russian He's trying to restore the Russia's traditional definition of security.

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Speaker 3: And what should really keep us awake.

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Speaker 4: At night is that in order for the ethnicity to

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Speaker 4: really feel secure, they have to dominate a collective peoples

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Speaker 4: in Eastern Europe that are about twice as large or

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Speaker 4: twice as numerous as the roof ethnicity itself, and that

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Speaker 4: that is the Russian definition of security.

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Speaker 2: Say that in a in a like, explain that just

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Speaker 2: a little bit more in layman's term, they want to

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Speaker 2: dominate a whole more, a bigger chunk than what they

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Speaker 2: are right is out you're trying to tell me, is

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Speaker 2: what you're saying.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, maybe twice as large. You know, all

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Speaker 4: of these former Soviet republics Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, you know,

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Speaker 4: you know, look down at Ukraine and what they're doing

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Speaker 4: in Ukraine right now, you know, and then former FORESAW

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Speaker 4: members like Poland and Romania, or Czechoslovakia or what became

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Speaker 4: the Czech Republic in Slovakia. You know, these are all

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Speaker 4: countries that they would like to be able to put

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Speaker 4: into a client state status at the minimum. Georgia, you know, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: Moldova actually, and that that's another A lot of analysts

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Speaker 4: that I hold in high regard believe Moldova's next if

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Speaker 4: the Russians successfully annex Ukraine as they're trying to do

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Speaker 4: all those was the next on the menu. And it's

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Speaker 4: the low hanging fruit because it's not a NATO. It's

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Speaker 4: not a NATO, right.

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Speaker 2: And so you know we're here. This is the current

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Speaker 2: thing he wants. And when I say he, I'm talking

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Speaker 2: about the current you know, person in charge of Russia,

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Speaker 2: of the dictator of Vladimir Putin. You know, he is,

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Speaker 2: you know, trying to go back to Peter the Great,

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Speaker 2: trying to get you know, McDonald's has left. Okay, places

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Speaker 2: have left. The things that came in in the late

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Speaker 2: eighties early nineties when Gorbachev tear down this wall was happening,

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Speaker 2: is leaving he's coming back with you know, he's imprisoning

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Speaker 2: you know, his political rivals like Nolvanney's still in prison.

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Speaker 2: No one's heard from him for a minute. You know.

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Speaker 2: Pussy Riot they opposed him and said a prayer on

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Speaker 2: stage at a concert and they were in prisoned for

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Speaker 2: multiple years because they're you know, a female band that

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Speaker 2: opposes Putin and his autocracy. And then there's you know,

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Speaker 2: just simple people who want to say something. And then

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Speaker 2: when you go and see some type of documentary where

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Speaker 2: they're talking to the doctors over there, and the doctor

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Speaker 2: lives in some type of little apartment with a bathtub

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Speaker 2: in this in his kitchen, and then he puts his

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Speaker 2: tabletop on the bathtub to eat his dinner. And he

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Speaker 2: is a doctor. And then the other people don't even

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Speaker 2: have that much and he's living in a kitchen with

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Speaker 2: a bathtub with a table that he has to make shift.

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Speaker 2: And he's one of the most educated people in Russia.

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Speaker 2: So it's like, you know, when do the Russian you know,

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Speaker 2: young Russians, the thirties, the forty year olds, when are

401
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Speaker 2: they going to say, hey, enough is enough? What's your

402
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Speaker 2: thought on that? Uh?

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Speaker 4: I don't think that points out there at least. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I don't think that point will be out there in

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Speaker 4: my lifetime. Or maybe maybe the better way to say

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Speaker 4: it is.

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Speaker 3: The people.

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Speaker 4: Vladimir Putin is not the return of Joseph Stalin. He's

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Speaker 4: not that powerful. He's Russia's most important power broker, and

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Speaker 4: he rose to power mostly by playing off a lot

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Speaker 4: of the different factions against one another. He knows how

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Speaker 4: to grant favors, he knows how to discreetly handle problems.

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Speaker 4: And when he was, you know, deputy mayor St. Petersburg,

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Speaker 4: and then when he moved to Moscow, and one of

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Speaker 4: the very first things he became responsible in Moscow under

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Speaker 4: Boris Jeltzen was taking former Soviet state assets and trying

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Speaker 4: to figure out how to privatize them. And he collected

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Speaker 4: an enormous number of IOUs and favors in that process.

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Speaker 4: And it's no coincidence that he jumped rapidly up to

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Speaker 4: being director of the FSB and then he was tapped

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Speaker 4: to be prime minister. I don't think he was even

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Speaker 4: in charge of the FSB for a full year before

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Speaker 4: he jumped to being prime minister. And then when Yeltsin retired,

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Speaker 4: he became the acting president until he was formally elected

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Speaker 4: in two thousand. But there are power brokers within his

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Speaker 4: party who he has to maintain faith with. One of

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Speaker 4: those people is Serga Shorgu. So and currently the current

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Speaker 4: name of Russia of Plutin's party is United Russia, and

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Speaker 4: Serga Shorgu is one of the most important power brokers

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Speaker 4: within the party itself. And Putin would never have gotten

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Speaker 4: his shot for president without Shoygu. So when you look

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Speaker 4: at all these really incompetent things that have happened in

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Speaker 4: Ukraine under Shorgu's watch as Defense minister, you know, one

434
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 4: of the things you have to keep in mind is

435
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 4: he's in the inner circle and there's no replacing him.

436
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 3: And you know, you can't.

437
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,440
Speaker 4: Putin can't get rid of him anymore than I could

438
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 4: get rid of my mother, not that I would, I

439
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 4: love my mother. But you know, their family and they're connected,

440
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 4: actually their kit I think Putin's daughter is married to

441
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 4: his son. Actually, so that's who that's who runs Russia.

442
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 4: It's a click of about one hundred and fifty to

443
00:24:55,640 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 4: two hundred former they call themselves, you know, the world

444
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 4: calls them Slovaki, but their former national security professionals, whether

445
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 4: they came from the intelligence community and the KGB, or

446
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 4: whether they came from the Foreign service like Sergei Lavrov,

447
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,439
Speaker 4: or whether they came from the military. They consider themselves

448
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,919
Speaker 4: national security experts and they they are the individuals in

449
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 4: Russia who really have the education and the background and

450
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 4: the experience and the multiple languages to be able to

451
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 4: run Russia's institutions. The problem is they run it kleptocratically.

452
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 4: They run it mostly for themselves in this closed circle oligarchy.

453
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 4: Now the young people, there's this hope in the West

454
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 4: that you know, the youth of Russia are going to

455
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 4: eventually resent this and they are going to fight against it.

456
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 4: And I think, you know, they have always resented it

457
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 4: and they've always fought against it. But it's not really

458
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 4: that unique in Russian history. There's always been this kind

459
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 4: of a kleptocratic regime in Moscow. You know, Communism made

460
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 4: it worse, but and Stalin made that system work by

461
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 4: pretty much guaranteeing that anybody who opposed his regime would

462
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 4: be arrested and executed or at minimum sent off to

463
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 4: the Siberian Gulags. But under the Tsarist regime and the

464
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 4: old you know, the Tzar had the you know, the

465
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 4: the old Cheka. You know they this is very normal.

466
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 4: Russia has always, uh had a you know, a relatively

467
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 4: despotic regime and power, and some of that's kind of

468
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 4: owed to their geography as well. If you have a

469
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 4: regime in you know, Saint Petersburg, which is, you know,

470
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 4: the historical capital of Russia, but you have a you know,

471
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 4: a populist in Keemchatka or of Vladivolstock, you know, that

472
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 4: is string the pot. The best way to deal with

473
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 4: that person is to have the secret Service arrest him

474
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 4: and disappear him. It takes you know, years to marginal

475
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 4: army all the way out that far. So the best

476
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 4: way to hold the empire together is to, you know,

477
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 4: make sure every town has you know, a local chapter

478
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 4: of your selected special security service that's listening in on

479
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 4: all the conversations and has a has an eye in

480
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 4: eyes and ears in the room of pretty much any

481
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 4: private conversation. And that that's a legacy in Prussia. And

482
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 4: that's a legacy that Putin fell into right.

483
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 2: And then you know, he's always seemed to have dabbled

484
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 2: with the leadership, whether he was prime minister or somehow

485
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 2: put into be prime minister and now he's the president

486
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 2: of Russia or he's at the head of you know,

487
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 2: like you said, the FSB or his the KGB or whatever.

488
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,679
Speaker 2: You know that. Growing up with my father, he was

489
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 2: just always saying, you know, the thing you got to

490
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 2: think about is just submarines, right, it's not so much

491
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 2: like Russia's, you know, not around us as as a nation.

492
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 2: You know, he'd always say, you know, it's the it's

493
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 2: the subs off the coast you got to think about.

494
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 2: And so, you know, I hear, I don't know if

495
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 2: I'm just spreading rumors. I'm gonna call it a rumor

496
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,120
Speaker 2: instead of fake news. So I might spread a rumor.

497
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 2: I hear there might be a submarine at the bottom

498
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 2: of the ocean that they command that has all of

499
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 2: the cable in its like little snips that connects the

500
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 2: underwater connectivity of all the you know, Internet and everything.

501
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 2: It could just like snip it. There's a huge underwater cable.

502
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 2: And my understanding is that just sit they sit there

503
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 2: ready for the go. You know what do you think?

504
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, Submarine engineering has been a it's been a high

505
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 4: priority for the regime. In Moscow for the last seventy years.

506
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 4: They realized that the U boats allowed Germany to go

507
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 4: toe to toe with the world's two most powerful navies,

508
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 4: you know, in World War Two, and I mean in

509
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 4: World War One as well, and they identified it early

510
00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 4: on as a tool that they need to adapt.

511
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 3: And so they've they've always they've always.

512
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 4: Had, you know, a high priority on you know, submarine

513
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 4: technology and the old Soviet vessels they weren't afraid to

514
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 4: make them big and because of that, you could have

515
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 4: a double hole whole format, and so the outer hole

516
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,479
Speaker 4: is your pressure hole in the inner hole. Uh, you know,

517
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 4: it simplifies internal design. It gives you all of this

518
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 4: extra space to really you know, create these you know,

519
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 4: much more functional and much more lavish living spaces and

520
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 4: so like you know, the old Typhoon class boats had

521
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 4: like a sauna and a you know and a and

522
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 4: a hot tub and stuff and swimming pools inside of them.

523
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 4: In the modern era, they you know, they still have

524
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 4: you know, it's a part of their nuclear triad. Is

525
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 4: they call them the was it the Berete class nuclear subs.

526
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 4: And then they still have the Delta Force that are

527
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 4: online and those are most of those were made in

528
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 4: the Soviet era, but they still have the delta force.

529
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 4: So the Berets have the what is it, the be

530
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 4: Lava ICBM, and then I think the old delta forges

531
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 4: are still using the R twenty nine and those are

532
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 4: both effective ICBMs. You know that that's something that should

533
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 4: give us real pause. You know, they have that technology

534
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 4: available and they could fire on anywhere. They could fire on,

535
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 4: you know, the United States, from anywhere in the world,

536
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 4: including their home port.

537
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 3: They don't really need to be parked off the coast.

538
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 4: So the Soviet strategy for years was actually to take

539
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 4: one of these subs and park them underneath the the

540
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 4: Arctic ice cap, where they'd be relatively hard to find,

541
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 4: and they were just supposed to sit there and then

542
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 4: in the event of war, they could surface, burst through

543
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 4: the ice cap, and fire off a couple of rockets,

544
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,959
Speaker 4: and then go back down again. So the sub that

545
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 4: you're talking about, they are making a number of special

546
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 4: missions submarines. There's some details about this on the book website.

547
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 4: I didn't include these in the book because it's interesting information,

548
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 4: but it doesn't doesn't quite tie into the thesis of

549
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 4: hybrid warfare. But yeah, they want to be able to

550
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 4: interfere with the with the fiber optic trunk cables that

551
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 4: are running under a lot of the world's oceans. They

552
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 4: want that as an option, and they have engineered a

553
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 4: number of specialist submarines that are that are designed for

554
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 4: those kinds of special missions.

555
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 3: And they don't even have to be able to dive

556
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 3: that deep themselves.

557
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 4: They can always just launch an underwater autonomous vehicle and

558
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 4: that that robot will go down there and do the

559
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 4: dirty work for them. But they're also incapable of taking

560
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 4: like a you know, a SPETSNAS detachment from the Russian

561
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 4: Naval Infantry. They call them, uh you know, uh, you know,

562
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 4: reconnaissance teams, and they could, you know, they can offload

563
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 4: them onto you know, a battlefield the same way our

564
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 4: Navy seals would come out of a Virginia class sub

565
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 4: And those are all capabilities they keep and the Russians

566
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 4: have from the Akula classes forward, and to be specific,

567
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 4: what we called the Typhoon class submarine, you know, the

568
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 4: classic hunt for Red October. Those are very actually but

569
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 4: called the Akula class by the Russians. Akula means shark.

570
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 4: What we call the Acula class and NATO parlance is

571
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 4: an attack submarine that was meant that was meant to

572
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 4: be at parody or better with our Los Angeles class

573
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 4: submarines in the United States. Now, whether they are at

574
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 4: parody or not, I don't I don't know. And we've

575
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 4: faced out the Los Angeles class and we're in the

576
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 4: Virginia's and my understanding, the Virginias are extremely good. The

577
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 4: Russians have moved their Coula classes forward. They still have

578
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 4: the aculism Solves are very venerable boats as attack submarines,

579
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 4: but they don't do those kinds of special missions, even though.

580
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 3: They're very quiet.

581
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 4: But they have developed what they're calling the Yasin class

582
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 4: submarines attack and these are from the open source information

583
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 4: that we have about the Yas attack submarine. It's probably

584
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 4: the best and the most quot submarine the Russians have

585
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 4: ever fielded, and NATO analysts have stated publicly they're very,

586
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 4: very impressed with it. It's also extremely expensive. The first one,

587
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 4: with the first one, I think it is called the severe,

588
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 4: the sevierro Dvinsk, came off the line at something like

589
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 4: two billion dollars, which for the Russians is not pocket change.

590
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 4: They don't have that kind of money lying around, so

591
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 4: each subsequent boat is supposed to be another billion dollars

592
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 4: out of pocket. And so we'll see if they can

593
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 4: maintain production.

594
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 2: No, they don't even really even have like aircraft carriers

595
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 2: comparatively speaking with a budget. I don't even john that.

596
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 2: I know, we're kind of like a little delay. I

597
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 2: just wanted to get in there. Like the Russian Navy,

598
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 2: they do focus so much energy on their sub mariners,

599
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 2: you know, and the navy itself, right, Like one of

600
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,959
Speaker 2: the most disciplined militaries in the Russia is the navy,

601
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 2: which is why they're Spetsna's where with the blue stripes

602
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 2: are more revered than the other stripes of Spetsna's. But again,

603
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 2: the thing is is that they only have a few

604
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 2: aircraft carrier, right, They're not very like robust on that, right.

605
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,240
Speaker 3: They have one aircraft carrier.

606
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:17,280
Speaker 4: It's a Kuznetsov class carrier, and it's it's it's pretty worthless.

607
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 4: It's they had during the Soviet Union in the eighties.

608
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 4: They had they started off with the Kiev class carriers,

609
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 4: which I think they made three of, and that was

610
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 4: meant to give them a fast ground attack capability against

611
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 4: NATO surface ships, and they realized that their subs would

612
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 4: be very vulnerable with that air cover, and so they

613
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 4: wanted to try to be able to project some degree

614
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 4: of air power.

615
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 3: Even though they knew they could never have parody.

616
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 4: With with you know, the United States, the UK and France.

617
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 4: But the Kuznetsov class was meant to be the next

618
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 4: four A forward and they're about you know, the boat

619
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 4: itself is about twenty f five thousand tons. It had

620
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 4: a sister ship that was actually after the class of

621
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 4: the Soviet Union was left in Ukraine and the Ukrainians

622
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,479
Speaker 4: first turned it into a casino and then they sold

623
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 4: the hull to the Chinese and that is what became

624
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,320
Speaker 4: the li and Ying in China. But the Kuznetsov class,

625
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 4: at about forty five thousand tons can support something like

626
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 4: a squadron of twenty five planes. I think they were

627
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 4: running the mid twenty nine K. I don't know, I

628
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 4: can't remember what it's been upgraded to at this point.

629
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 4: But it breaks down all the time, and the fumes

630
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:42,280
Speaker 4: from the motor runs on this kind of it's almost

631
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 4: a tar. It's meant to run off a very low

632
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 4: refined petroleum derivative you could almost call tar and they're

633
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 4: just a very poorly constructed boat. They suffocate the people

634
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 4: that operate inside of them. They tried to bring it

635
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 4: down for the war in Syria. They had to have

636
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 4: it paced by an ocean going tug boat in case

637
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 4: it broke down, which it did multiple times. And then

638
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,959
Speaker 4: when they started actually releasing planes to conduct combat operations

639
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 4: in Syria, they had to close all air ops for

640
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 4: the boat itself and then have all the planes land

641
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 4: at their at their Hyinenem air base in Syria and

642
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 4: just fight from a from an airfield on the ground

643
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 4: because the carrier was, you know, it was prohibiting their

644
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 4: their success. They haven't retired it because simply having an

645
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 4: aircraft carrier is a is a point of national pride

646
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 4: and it should be retired. It's caught on fire multiple times,

647
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 4: but they just won't let it go. The issue is

648
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 4: they don't have the existing naval facilities enable shipyards to

649
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 4: actually build a boat of that size right now, and

650
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 4: certainly not staffed with the subject matter expertise it would

651
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 4: take to build a boat of that size. So until

652
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 4: they until they update their infrastructure in their workforce, you know,

653
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 4: having a real aircraft carrier is probably not going to

654
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 4: be on the table for them.

655
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. Really that is a big deal. I mean with

656
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 2: considering you know, air superiority and having aircraft that can

657
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 2: just like be right off the coast or take off

658
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 2: and you know, just dominate the airspace within landing back

659
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 2: on its carrier group right, let alone just their carrier,

660
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 2: which I understood was also like you said, I think

661
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 2: sold over to China and it's a nineteen fifties fifty

662
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:32,320
Speaker 2: five version aircraft carrier that they've modeled their aircraft carrier

663
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 2: off of, which has like that lip at the front

664
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 2: of it when they try to take off so they

665
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 2: can fall or something. I don't know. I mean, why

666
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 2: is it that I feel like when I think of

667
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 2: Russia equipment, it's frozen cold and not functional.

668
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 4: Well, that's a common problem. The Russians inherited the Soviet Arsenal,

669
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 4: and when Russia collapsed or what let's say, and the

670
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 4: Soviet Union collapsed, Moscow went from having an economy that

671
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 4: was maybe half the size of the United States.

672
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 3: They always fudged.

673
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 4: Their numbers, so we don't really know exactly how large

674
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,280
Speaker 4: the Soviet economy was because the data that they created

675
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 4: around this is always very inflated. But by nineteen ninety three,

676
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 4: the Russian economy was about half the size of the

677
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 4: United Kingdom, and those are numbers that we can trust.

678
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 4: And so with an economy half the size of that

679
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 4: of the United Kingdom, they were trying to maintain an

680
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 4: armed forces that could compete not just with the United

681
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 4: States but with the entire NATO alliance, and maintaining that

682
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 4: equipment is physically impossible. They simply didn't have the resources,

683
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 4: and so this was all put in. It was all,

684
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,720
Speaker 4: you know, it was put in dock, and the ships rusted,

685
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 4: and the tanks were put into you know, storage storage yards,

686
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 4: and they you know, they had weeds grow into the tracks,

687
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,919
Speaker 4: and that's what's happened ever since. They didn't really start

688
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 4: modernizing and updating their armed forces until the mid two thousands.

689
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 2: Right after other countries had already had a run in

690
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 2: the game trying to get up on them. Now they're

691
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 2: trying to catch up, so they are. And in the meantime,

692
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 2: you know, in the nineties, they did sign that agreement

693
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,800
Speaker 2: to like you know, allow Ukraine to be its own

694
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 2: self with the nuclear proliferation act red or where they

695
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,240
Speaker 2: got rid of all their nukes and quote unquote said, okay,

696
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 2: you get to have your own sovereign nation. You're now Ukraine.

697
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 2: And then, you know, two thousand and twelve jumps up

698
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,879
Speaker 2: and they start to attack into Crimea and then they

699
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 2: putin says don't fly your civilian airliners in the airspace

700
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 2: or it will be shot down. You know, it's a

701
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 2: war zone. But they shot down the airliners of the

702
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 2: civilians that were just flying over. And you know, so

703
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 2: now he's trying to say that it's annexed. He's like,

704
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 2: this is ours now because we went in and fought

705
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 2: on it, and you've got you know, Zelensky, President Zelenski

706
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:05,919
Speaker 2: of Ukraine trying to you know, keep it together, keep

707
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 2: a positive mission for his troops who are either in

708
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 2: their fifties and have old Russian experience or they're in

709
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 2: their twenties and they have airsoft wargame experience. And so

710
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 2: you have this war going on right now over there

711
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 2: where it's needed to be defended because Ukraine is its

712
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 2: own stone state. Okay, I recognize Ukraine, and just because

713
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 2: they attacked in February of twenty twenty two doesn't mean

714
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 2: that it's not been going on for some time, and

715
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:39,800
Speaker 2: for him to want to go back to the Peter

716
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,800
Speaker 2: the Great, the Peter of the Vlatimir the Great, whatever

717
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 2: he wants to be thought of, I don't think it's

718
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 2: quite doing it because you know, my understanding is they've

719
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 2: lost around three hundred thousand plus Russian soldiers since that

720
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 2: February initial invasion of Ukraine. You know what is Putin's end.

721
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 3: Game, well, you know his endgame.

722
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 4: His endgame is to restore the former buffer states to

723
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 4: their subservient position. I don't think that that full game

724
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 4: is in the cards in the next five years for certain.

725
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 3: But what he can do.

726
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 4: With Ukraine, even though they've floundered so badly on the

727
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 4: war when it started in February of twenty two, what

728
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 4: they can do at this point is wade out Western support.

729
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 4: The Ukrainians rely on foreign donated weapons, they rely on

730
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 4: foreign financing, and increasingly they rely on foreign fuel and

731
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 4: foreign food. The Russians will attack the Ukrainian economy and,

732
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 4: wherever possible, the Ukrainian population itself. If they can destroy infrastructure,

733
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:53,320
Speaker 4: the power grid, the port facilities, the railroads that are needed,

734
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 4: you know, Ukrainian grain is you know, it's an important

735
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 4: staple in the world, you know, food supply chain. Right,

736
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 4: they're the fifth largest grain producer. That's a backbone of

737
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 4: the Ukrainian economy keeping them from exporting those things. First off,

738
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,839
Speaker 4: that increases the price of wheat, and that's you know,

739
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:15,240
Speaker 4: Russia is the world's largest grain producer, and that creates

740
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 4: demand for their own produce, but that destroys the capacity

741
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 4: of the Ukrainian economy to support the government. And it

742
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,359
Speaker 4: the more you attack the power grid and the more

743
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 4: you attack the water supply, the more you tend to

744
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 4: create refugees, you know, especially in you know, as you

745
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 4: do this in heavy population centers, and refugees have a

746
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 4: number of characteristics, but one of the big ones is

747
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 4: that they don't fight back, at least not in an

748
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 4: organized way. They tend to drift into Europe and they

749
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 4: become the European Union's problem, which is absolutely okay with

750
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 4: the Russians, and that means that they can slowly roll

751
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 4: the ball forward so they don't necessarily have to conduct

752
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 4: you know, the bold Heinz Guderian style, you know, armored

753
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 4: spearheads into Ukraine and surround Ukrainian forces and defeat them,

754
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 4: you know, in a chest like victory on the battlefield.

755
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:15,720
Speaker 4: They can simply slowly advance the ball on each front

756
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 4: and slowly chip away at Ukraine as a whole until

757
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 4: there's simply isn't a population left to defend it, and

758
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 4: there's no economy to support. And you know, it's becoming

759
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 4: a very expensive endeavor for the Western Allies to invest

760
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 4: in Ukraine's continued independence, and that seems to be the

761
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 4: strategy that they're pursuing right now, and that it's a ruthless,

762
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 4: ruthless calculus that they're going through. It's what's going to

763
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:49,800
Speaker 4: be done to the Ukrainian people over the next five years,

764
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 4: is it? Well, we've gotten a sample of it. We

765
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 4: got a sample of it, you know, and the war

766
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 4: crimes that we saw in Bhucha and a number of

767
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 4: other places around the the occupied areas.

768
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 3: In northern Ukrain and you know that they have absolutely yeah.

769
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 2: You know, I talked to some people who have been

770
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,280
Speaker 2: over there. I've talked to a guy who got captured

771
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 2: by Ukrainian forces. He was with a guy that had

772
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 2: a Russian passport. It was very hairy, you know. They

773
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 2: were like, look, look, look, this is why he has

774
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 2: a passport. It was just like in the beginning of it,

775
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,439
Speaker 2: he was just trying to get some folks out right,

776
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 2: and boy, you know, it is a thing I don't

777
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 2: want here. You know. I've said it on previous episodes

778
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 2: where I was talking to my oil changed homie over

779
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 2: here at my local oil change place and we were

780
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 2: just bsing about an episode and I said, yeah, we

781
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 2: were talking about are you ready for a hypersonic missile

782
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 2: to blow up the grocery store across the street just

783
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 2: out of nowhere? Bro? I said, are you ready for

784
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 2: that right now? Because that's what's happening over there in Ukraine?

785
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 2: And he looked at me. I said, are you really

786
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 2: ready to go bandage your neighbors blown up children because

787
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 2: their houses got blown up out of nowhere like like

788
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 2: these things. And he looked at me. I said, are

789
00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 2: you ready for that? And He's like no. I was like, no, no, bro,

790
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 2: these that's what's happening over there. And if if we

791
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,439
Speaker 2: let it happen and fight it over there, it doesn't

792
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,319
Speaker 2: happen here, right if we can help prevent it and

793
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,800
Speaker 2: thwart it and maybe help fight that battle and get

794
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 2: Congress to you know, see the need to do that

795
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 2: and not maybe sympathize, you know, like World War two.

796
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 2: Let's let world War two Congress. Some people in Congress

797
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 2: sympathized with with Hitler. Okay, they were sympathizers. There was

798
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 2: German sympathizers that were involved in politics that were like,

799
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 2: what's the big deal, He's just doing it. He just

800
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,800
Speaker 2: let him do it. What's the big deal. It's his country,

801
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 2: it's his place, nah man, Look what happened. Right. History

802
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 2: books are written based off of exactly all that stuff.

803
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 2: So if we continue to let this guy do the

804
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:49,240
Speaker 2: same thing, are we just like what? You know, what?

805
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 2: What do you think of that?

806
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 4: There is definitely something to be said for maintaining the

807
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 4: status quo internationally. It's not acceptable to be in the

808
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 4: Community of Nations and to be integrated into the global

809
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 4: economy and to just invade your neighbors because you want

810
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 4: something that they have and that the United States and

811
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 4: NATO and the European Union have a that is our

812
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,839
Speaker 4: defined interest in Ukraine that I think is absolutely one

813
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 4: hundred percent right and absolutely one defensible. There is an

814
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 4: added component that I think NATO really needs to keep

815
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 4: in mind, and that is that they do not want

816
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 4: Russia butting up directly against NATO allies.

817
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 3: We would also be better off with a.

818
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,720
Speaker 4: Buffer between US and Russia, because the Russians if they're

819
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 4: if they butt up against the country like Poland or Romania.

820
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 4: There's a historian I really like named Victor Davis Hansen

821
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 4: who talks about deterrence as the principal reason why people

822
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 4: go to war. He makes the argument that it's, you know,

823
00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,839
Speaker 4: World War One and World War Two, you know, these

824
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 4: effectively laboratories of national power that kind of revealed to

825
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 4: us through a very ruthless and brutal process what we

826
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:11,240
Speaker 4: should have known at the beginning. Right, So, if Germany

827
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,720
Speaker 4: had looked at the number of countries that would be fighting,

828
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 4: you know, in nineteen forty five, before they invaded Poland

829
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 4: in nineteen thirty nine, they would never have done it.

830
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 4: They would never they would never have the generals and

831
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 4: I don't even think Hitler would have been crazy enough

832
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 4: to believe he could fight the United Kingdom and the

833
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 4: Soviet Union and France and the United States all at

834
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 4: the same time. But it's the loss of deterrence that

835
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 4: makes them believe that they can do these things that

836
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 4: at the end of World War One, the Allies were

837
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 4: absolutely certain that they never wanted to fight a brutal, ruthless,

838
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 4: industrialized conflict like that. Again, whereas the Russian excuse me,

839
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 4: the Germans came out of World War One and they said, oh,

840
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 4: we almost won that. I mean, we were like this

841
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 4: close if the Americans hadn't come into the keep making cars, right,

842
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 4: you know, So there's this. You know, Adam Hitler took

843
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 4: all of Czechoslovakia. You know, he remilitarized the Rhineland, and

844
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 4: he took the the Starland and took you know, in

845
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 4: the Anslas he took he took Austria, he took the

846
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:27,439
Speaker 4: Sudate Land and Czechoslovakia then and he was a peace

847
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 4: at he was pointing in that process. And so the Germans,

848
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 4: both from political leadership in the West and then just

849
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,880
Speaker 4: from a cultural sense, they read weakness in the United

850
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 4: Kingdom and France particularly, and that's what motivated them to

851
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 4: do what they're going to do. If Vladimir Putin is

852
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 4: you know, he's got forces stationed on the border of

853
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:46,959
Speaker 4: Ukraine or.

854
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 3: Belarus, and they're.

855
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 4: On the border of Poland or Romania, you know, then

856
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 4: we start getting into a world where they might think

857
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,280
Speaker 4: that they can conduct military operations in a NATO country

858
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 4: because they read that NATO won't do anything about it.

859
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:07,919
Speaker 4: And that's a real nightmare scenario. We do not want

860
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 4: them ever thinking that they could start sending you know,

861
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 4: spetsnazed troops across the border to you know, you know,

862
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,760
Speaker 4: conduct false flag operations in a place like Poland.

863
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 3: Or something like that. That's how world wars get started.

864
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 4: That's how that's that's how you risk something like a

865
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:32,839
Speaker 4: general nuclear exchange. So the Western Allies have a definitive

866
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 4: interest in making sure that the Russians do not conquer Ukraine. Now,

867
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 4: the one thing I'll say, and this is this is

868
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 4: something for our domestic politicians to meditate on, is I

869
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 4: have not heard that case clearly articulated to the American people.

870
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 4: And that is the And if you if you're to

871
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 4: go back to nineteen thirty eight, thirty nine, nineteen forty,

872
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 4: nineteen forty one, leading up to per Harbor, Roosevelt, he

873
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 4: is he's very sympathetic with the isolationist views that were

874
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,399
Speaker 4: in the United States at the time, especially after World

875
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,360
Speaker 4: War One, and he sees, you know, getting involved in

876
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 4: the European conflict, as you know, a, we don't want

877
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 4: to do that. This is Europe's problem. But be this

878
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 4: distraction from my domestic initiatives, right like we're in the

879
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:29,720
Speaker 4: Great Depression stole. But a number of his core advisors,

880
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 4: and the big one being George C. Marshall, with his

881
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 4: in conjunction with Roosevelt, Secretary of the Treasury, and for

882
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 4: the life of me, I'm struggling to remember that man's name,

883
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:44,439
Speaker 4: but he was one of Roosevelt's closest confidants. They make

884
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 4: a case to Roosevelt that, hey, look that the United

885
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 4: States military only has you know, two hundred and fifty

886
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 4: three hundred thousand soldiers in the US Army. We're across Europe,

887
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 4: everyone is fielding an army of two to five million

888
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 4: men minimum. We're are at the beginning of World War Two.

889
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 4: Our army was smaller than the army of Portugal. We

890
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 4: are hopelessly and hilariously outgunned. And if we get into this,

891
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 4: you know we're going to lose badly. We need to

892
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 4: arm and you need to take this seriously. And Roosevelt too,

893
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 4: he he you know, he's a political grand master and

894
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 4: he knew how to listen to his advisors and make

895
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 4: the case to the American people that this was in

896
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:31,359
Speaker 4: the national interest. He got the American people's he got

897
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 4: Congress to vote for a peacetime draft. And you know,

898
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:39,759
Speaker 4: there's no such case that's been made. And you know,

899
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 4: we we get told that this is important by a

900
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 4: lot of the core figures, but you know, it's it's

901
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 4: not nearly at the same level, on the same scale

902
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 4: as Roosevelt's you know, attempt to communicate with the American

903
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 4: people about the issues at the time.

904
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 2: I would love to hear the case be made on

905
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:58,839
Speaker 2: behalf of what you just said, just like how Roosevelt

906
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 2: came out and said, here's the case, you know, listen

907
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:05,839
Speaker 2: to his trusted advisors. Are I like how you said,

908
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 2: you know, our national politicians need to like you know,

909
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 2: meditate on that, you know, and like think about it,

910
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 2: you know, and find their inner self and you know

911
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 2: whatever they pray to and just come to terms with,

912
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 2: you know, being bipartisan and just seeing the greater need

913
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 2: of the good of the situation here. And that's it

914
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,319
Speaker 2: and for all of us, you know, really represent us,

915
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 2: really represent what they're there to do, and and and

916
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 2: swing the bat and hit it out of the park.

917
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 2: We want to believe in that system. So I do

918
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 2: as an American. I want the world to believe that

919
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 2: we believe in that. My listeners that listen in the

920
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:43,279
Speaker 2: UK and everywhere else, I want them to feel that

921
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 2: I have the confidence that we can overcome anything that's

922
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 2: between ourselves too, for the greater good of mankind. Right,

923
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 2: war is all you know, there's no peace without the

924
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 2: word war. Right, I hear that, but I mean, damn,

925
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 2: let's have some peace.

926
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 4: Yes, And you know, to Roosevelt's credit too, he respected

927
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:06,440
Speaker 4: the isolationist position.

928
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 3: And there were a lot of.

929
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 4: Luminaries, uh, you know, in American society. Charles Lindberg was

930
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:15,919
Speaker 4: one of the big ones who were isolationists or even pacifists,

931
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:21,240
Speaker 4: and there, you know, the Midwest especially was very isolationist.

932
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 4: And in all of his speeches he absolutely there was

933
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 4: not this kind of down finger wagging and shame on

934
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 4: you, you need to tone my position or else you're bad.

935
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 4: It was explaining to them that yes, that's noble, and

936
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 4: I agree with you, and I see your point. There

937
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 4: are some things to consider here that that change the math.

938
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 4: And that's the way the case was made, and you

939
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 4: know they are these these makes the notable speeches when,

940
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 4: especially when he introduces the draft, he starts the speech

941
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 4: by saying, I hate war, and uh, the people in

942
00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 4: our time now that do not want to be in

943
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 4: broiled in Ukraine are worried that US troops are going

944
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 4: to be committed on the ground in the Ukraine. They

945
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 4: have a point, and it's a point that I think

946
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:12,879
Speaker 4: we should all really pay attention to. And those those

947
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:14,840
Speaker 4: we do not want to go to war with Russia,

948
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 4: but we do need to maintain deterrence, and we do

949
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 4: need to make sure that this country that wants to

950
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 4: maintain its independence can because it is in our absolute

951
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 4: national interest to do so. We just have to communicate

952
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 4: to the American public. White it's international.

953
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:31,880
Speaker 2: Interest, it's a global interest that it stays.

954
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:34,760
Speaker 3: And that's you know, that's a job for our political class.

955
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and we're just stewards in our country to

956
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 2: do the best we can. Uh, what we have as

957
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 2: others around the world are stewards and theirs and together

958
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 2: they all seem to like steward together for the most part. Okay,

959
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 2: everybody seems to try to get along for the most

960
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:52,919
Speaker 2: part that there's just these actors out there launching things

961
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 2: into space, setting them up all this different stuff. I'm

962
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 2: gonna go do this. You can't tell me what do

963
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 2: the Internet belongs to U? Look, I think you've been

964
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:05,760
Speaker 2: a great guest on our podcast here at Soft Rep Radio,

965
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:08,720
Speaker 2: and I've really it's really been awesome to have you on, Curtis.

966
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 2: I just want to say thank you for just going

967
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 2: back and forth about Russia and all of your knowledge.

968
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:16,840
Speaker 4: Hey, thank you for having me on. It's been great.

969
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:19,919
Speaker 4: And man, I can talk about this stuff all day.

970
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 4: It's been it's been fantastic to speak with you.

971
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 2: Well. I appreciate the objectivity you bring to the conversation.

972
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 2: And you know, I am going to also be a

973
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 2: better person and say I want our politicians to meditate more. Okay,

974
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 2: find it on the inside. And I also want to.

975
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:45,279
Speaker 4: Pitch certainly, couldn't hurt a little objectivity and a.

976
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 2: Little a little exactly and hybrid warfare right on Amazon right,

977
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 2: Please leave a comment and a review once you go

978
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 2: check out his book, read it, leave a comment down there,

979
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 2: let him know that you're reading his book. It really

980
00:55:57,400 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 2: makes authors feel really good when they see somebody leave

981
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:02,800
Speaker 2: a re spons anywhere that you are picking up his book,

982
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:04,840
Speaker 2: if it's at the local mom and pop shops or

983
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 2: if it's at the airport. But Hybrid warfare the Russian

984
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:10,840
Speaker 2: approach god to conflict. Hold on, you do have a

985
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:12,759
Speaker 2: long title. One second, let me get it right. Hold on,

986
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:17,360
Speaker 2: hold on, hold on, hold on those Russians. Hybrid warfare

987
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 2: the Russian approach to strategic competition and conventional military conflict

988
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:26,400
Speaker 2: by yours right here, Former Green Beret Curtis L. Fox,

989
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you, Red. And with that, that's Rad saying,

990
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 2: don't forget to go to the merch store. Keep that going.

991
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 2: And also check out the book club book hyphen Club,

992
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 2: soft rep dot com, Forward slash book hyphen Club making

993
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:44,319
Speaker 2: a song, sing it all day long, go to it,

994
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:46,440
Speaker 2: check it out, and I appreciate it. And this is

995
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 2: Rad saying happy holidays. It's probably twenty twenty four by now, Peace,

996
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:56,239
Speaker 2: you've been

997
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 1: Listening to Sink Rep Radia