WEBVTT - Why Juul's Co-Inventor Is Making a New E-Cigarette

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<v Speaker 1>There's been a huge surge of high schoolers using e

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<v Speaker 1>cigarettes or vaporing. There's breaking news in America's vaping crisis.

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<v Speaker 1>Late today, a death was reported in Georgia vaporing company

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<v Speaker 1>Jewel and some hot Water after the Food and Drug

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<v Speaker 1>Administration said the company illegally marketed it's nicotine vaping devices

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<v Speaker 1>as safe. Jewels, the maker of East Cigarettes, just might

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<v Speaker 1>be the most hated company in America right now. But

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<v Speaker 1>before it became so big and before it became so controversial,

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<v Speaker 1>Jewels co founders talked about a lofty mission to get

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<v Speaker 1>the world's one billion smokers to stop smoking. I would

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<v Speaker 1>tell people, you know, anyone who will listen, fifty years

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<v Speaker 1>from now, nobody's gonna be smoking cigarettes. They're gonna look

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<v Speaker 1>back and think, oh my god, I can't believe people

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<v Speaker 1>used to do that. What scientists Genuishing was there in

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<v Speaker 1>the startups early years, and she helped invent the technology

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<v Speaker 1>that later made Jewels such a big hit. Now, as

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<v Speaker 1>Jewel faces a storm of government investigations in lawsuits, she

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<v Speaker 1>thinks the answer to the industry's crisis is that somehow

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<v Speaker 1>better safer e cigarette. Today. In the show, reporters Shelly

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<v Speaker 1>Banjo and I visit this chemist news startup, Misslabs. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>you're listening to decryptin stay with us, Hey, Shelly, how's

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<v Speaker 1>it going good? How are you? It's good to see

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<v Speaker 1>you in person. It's good to be here. Do you

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<v Speaker 1>want to introduce yourself? Sure? So? My name is Shelly

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<v Speaker 1>Banjo and I'm a tech reporter, usually based out of

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<v Speaker 1>Hong Kong, where I cover technology in Asia. I think

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<v Speaker 1>he told me that this story started out as a

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<v Speaker 1>tip that you got six months ago. That's right. I

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<v Speaker 1>was having breakfast UM with a venture capitalist and he

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<v Speaker 1>was telling me about this hot new East cigarette company

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<v Speaker 1>that he was investing in. I thought, I have do

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<v Speaker 1>a story on this, this Chinese woman who was a

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<v Speaker 1>scientist who was striking out on her own after working

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<v Speaker 1>for Jewel and really creating the East Cigarette. There's got

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<v Speaker 1>to be a story there. So it took us a

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<v Speaker 1>while to figure out a date that worked for everyone,

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<v Speaker 1>but we finally got you out here to San Francisco. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>I picked you up and we drove down to San

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<v Speaker 1>Jose where we got her a few months earlier. And

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<v Speaker 1>I think this is a podcast. UM. I figured we

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<v Speaker 1>would just start with a little tour in the area.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course, john Way first took us around the coworking

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<v Speaker 1>space that they're in and then to a very small

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<v Speaker 1>lab which is where she and just a few other

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<v Speaker 1>scientists work out of I think this is where they

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<v Speaker 1>do their R and D right right. They have about

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<v Speaker 1>sixty employees and most of them are in China. And

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<v Speaker 1>the product was sitting on a shelf with some of

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<v Speaker 1>their other competitors products too. They don't look as fancy

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<v Speaker 1>as the other products are in the market. There are

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<v Speaker 1>basically more mature tomb one is the space gray and

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<v Speaker 1>the other ones the silver. Remember the formal name then,

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<v Speaker 1>but anyway, yeah, so, um, what's the reasoning there. We

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<v Speaker 1>believe that a secrette as a whole is designed for

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<v Speaker 1>adult and mature user smokers. And then we did notice

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<v Speaker 1>that many other products they use very fancy colors um

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<v Speaker 1>neon colors, and then or so they add a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of fancy flavors that their user. This is um lower edge,

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<v Speaker 1>which is what we really wanted to avoid. So like

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<v Speaker 1>that bright blue one for example, that one would be

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<v Speaker 1>something that's a lot of flashier and something. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>there were actually a lot of other products as even

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<v Speaker 1>more flashier than this. There is definitely a theme she

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<v Speaker 1>was trying to get across. Yes, she was really hammering home.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, this is for adults. This isn't for kids.

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<v Speaker 1>We don't have the fruity flavors and the candy colors.

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<v Speaker 1>This is really for people in their forties who have

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<v Speaker 1>been smoking for a really long time. Do you want

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<v Speaker 1>to walk us through chin Ways Bio sure. So. Chin

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<v Speaker 1>Way grew up in China, and then she decided to

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<v Speaker 1>follow in her parents footsteps and moved to the US

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<v Speaker 1>to do her pH d in chemistry and chemical engineering,

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<v Speaker 1>and she started at Janentech and then went over to

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<v Speaker 1>matt Pharmaceuticals, which eventually was acquired by Allergan, the the

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<v Speaker 1>botox maker. While she was there, she was working mostly

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<v Speaker 1>on drugs that you would hail so think of asthma

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<v Speaker 1>and hailers. So she had really you know, she was

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<v Speaker 1>this very serious student that translated into a serious scientist,

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<v Speaker 1>very goal oriented, and out of nowhere. She was cold

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<v Speaker 1>call by this recruiter who was working for the company

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<v Speaker 1>that developed jewel. So jewels had a few names Plume

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<v Speaker 1>Packed Labs. Now it's jewel just for the sake of simplicity.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just gonna refer to them as as Jewel. Initially, UM,

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<v Speaker 1>I have to. I had to admit that I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>very familiar with this new company. So so they were

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<v Speaker 1>a strong team with make kind of continuing background and

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<v Speaker 1>product design, but they didn't have anybody with chemistry training.

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<v Speaker 1>Um so, and that's why they had this opening. So

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<v Speaker 1>she goes in. She says, Okay, I have an open mind.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to keep an open mind. I told specifically

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<v Speaker 1>to the recruiter in the beginning that I was not

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<v Speaker 1>a smoker and I don't plan to start smoking. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>And then they said it's not a requirement, even though

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<v Speaker 1>even though many of their team, um, they are smokers.

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<v Speaker 1>When I actually went to interview, they were puffing on

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<v Speaker 1>their product back there. Um, it was not as annoying

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<v Speaker 1>at all as um, somebody smoking next to you. She

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<v Speaker 1>was one of those people that hated secondhand smoke, and um,

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<v Speaker 1>she was pretty attracted to the mission. Like the way

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<v Speaker 1>they definitely sold it to her and the way they

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<v Speaker 1>needed to to attract a scientists who had a farm

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<v Speaker 1>of background that you know, we're creating an alternative cigarettes.

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<v Speaker 1>This could be a way to get millions of not

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<v Speaker 1>billion people off of combustible cigarettes. You know, so struck

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<v Speaker 1>by the symbolism of her going from these inhalers that

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<v Speaker 1>deliver medicine right to these inhalers that deliver nicotine. But

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<v Speaker 1>she didn't seem to see that much of a distinction. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>she had this really straight faced thing about her. It

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<v Speaker 1>was very scientist like, you know, very matter of fact.

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<v Speaker 1>They did mention that some other health care professionals they

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<v Speaker 1>might be hesitant to, you know, do anything related tobacco related,

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<v Speaker 1>But um, I actually hold different views on that because

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<v Speaker 1>I think being body develops medications right of drugs, it's

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<v Speaker 1>actually to treat sickness. But I do see um smoking

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<v Speaker 1>as a behavior causing a lot of health problem and

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<v Speaker 1>then causing a lot of stress on public health space

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<v Speaker 1>in general. She had spent all her of her career

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<v Speaker 1>up to that point working on caring illnesses, and she

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<v Speaker 1>thought to herself, why am I carrying illnesses? Why don't

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<v Speaker 1>I stop the thing that's causing these illnesses in the

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<v Speaker 1>first place, which were cigarettes. Okay, so in Chinway starts

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<v Speaker 1>working at Jewel She really likes the fast pace people

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<v Speaker 1>are working around the clock. They're really excited about what

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<v Speaker 1>they're doing. They're young. They you know, there's beer and

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<v Speaker 1>stuff at the office and um, you know, her job

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<v Speaker 1>as a chemist is to make the liquid formulation that

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<v Speaker 1>goes into the Jewel pod. So basically figuring out how

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<v Speaker 1>to deliver that kind of nicotine hit to give you

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<v Speaker 1>that buzz in a few uh in a few minutes.

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<v Speaker 1>And so it's kind of the core of this produc

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<v Speaker 1>act And and she does, she figures it out, she

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<v Speaker 1>gets a patent, and um, it's a big accomplishment. Do

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<v Speaker 1>you remember that moment when it worked for the first time,

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<v Speaker 1>when those volunteers, um came to you and say that

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<v Speaker 1>they haven't touched the air a secret pack for a while,

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<v Speaker 1>right for so um from a pack of day down

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<v Speaker 1>to maybe a pack of months and then later to zero.

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<v Speaker 1>And when what do you think when they told you that, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I do think that we have a great product and

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<v Speaker 1>we should let more people try it. And in June

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<v Speaker 1>they decide to launch the jewel product. They get four

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<v Speaker 1>people packed into this swinky Manhattan event hall and there's

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<v Speaker 1>models and there's music and it's really exciting. There's build

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<v Speaker 1>up and and then nothing happens. You know, like they

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<v Speaker 1>don't make this big impact. Sales are not really booming

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<v Speaker 1>or anything like that. And this is when Jules Founders

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<v Speaker 1>start thinking about out marijuana the recreational uses is not

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<v Speaker 1>legal yet in California, but it's becoming clear that it

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<v Speaker 1>will be. People have been using jewels products for for

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<v Speaker 1>smoking pot, and you know, they clearly see that there's

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<v Speaker 1>going to be a market there, big market there, especially

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<v Speaker 1>if pockets legalized in certain cities around the country. And

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<v Speaker 1>Chinway really disagrees with that. You know, she has these

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<v Speaker 1>cultural hesitations. She comes from China where marijuana and pot

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<v Speaker 1>use is not really accepted. Although there are quite many

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<v Speaker 1>UM articles or scientific publications talking about the benefit it

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<v Speaker 1>could do to certain disease or symptoms. I do think

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<v Speaker 1>the risk is a bit too high compared to the

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<v Speaker 1>potential benefit it will have. So I think, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>as a scientist, to myself, I would have to be

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<v Speaker 1>convinced to develop something. What were some of the risks

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<v Speaker 1>that you were thinking about? UM, I think, unlike nickting Um,

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<v Speaker 1>it is still impacting your your acute behavior at the moment,

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<v Speaker 1>So I do worry more people get d U I

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<v Speaker 1>once this is too convenient. I still see it may

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<v Speaker 1>be a gateway drug. Of course there's debated on it,

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<v Speaker 1>but I mean it's just my personal opinion. Yeah, Based

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<v Speaker 1>on that direction, she decides to quit in and goes

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<v Speaker 1>back to the farmer world fast fort a year or so,

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<v Speaker 1>and Jewel becomes a huge hit, and Chinway starts to

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<v Speaker 1>see it everywhere. Jewel markets itself as an alternative to

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<v Speaker 1>traditional cigarettes. Jewel is everywhere on city streets, in offices,

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<v Speaker 1>even in classrooms. You know, everybody's vaping. Jewel has become

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<v Speaker 1>a verb. And you know, she's really proud of what

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<v Speaker 1>she's done and frankly surprised. She said that she expected

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<v Speaker 1>it to be a hit, but not that much of

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<v Speaker 1>a hit. She didn't think it was gonna really revolutionize

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<v Speaker 1>um the industry as much as it did. And she

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<v Speaker 1>starts getting calls from people, you know, old school cigarette companies,

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<v Speaker 1>new startups saying, hey, do you want to launch another product?

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<v Speaker 1>You want to come work for us? And then she

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<v Speaker 1>starts talking to her college friend Thomas, who we met earlier,

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<v Speaker 1>and he says, why are you going to go work

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<v Speaker 1>for another company? Like, let's start our own company, and

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<v Speaker 1>let's start it in China. We'll be right back. In

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<v Speaker 1>the meantime, all these stories start coming out about Jewel,

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<v Speaker 1>about how teens are starting to get addicted, and Jewels

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<v Speaker 1>really at the center of all this controversy. The Surgeon General,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the America's doctor comes out and says, we

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<v Speaker 1>must protect our nation's young people from a lifetime of

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<v Speaker 1>nicotine addiction and associated problems. This is an epidemic. Vaping

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<v Speaker 1>for teens has become an epidemic. We have been talking

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<v Speaker 1>about this story all week because so many parents of

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<v Speaker 1>teens are concerned about this. Let's talk about the teenage

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<v Speaker 1>brain and how vaping affects it. Our teens more susceptible

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<v Speaker 1>to addiction. Absolutely they are, and we have to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about chinwey. You know, she presses ahead. They start this

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<v Speaker 1>new company called Missed Labs. So um in July, they've

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<v Speaker 1>released two products, one which is pretty much like a

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<v Speaker 1>Jewel product, which is called the P series, and one

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<v Speaker 1>which is a G series, which is a disposable e

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<v Speaker 1>cigarette for one time use. You know, as it got hot,

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<v Speaker 1>it also got more controversial. Um, would you make of

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<v Speaker 1>the controversy around around Jewel. They did make it very

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<v Speaker 1>specific that it was for adult smoker, but it just

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<v Speaker 1>because you know, the marketing campaign were on the social

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<v Speaker 1>networks and then um, young people are the major users

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<v Speaker 1>on the social networks, so then they got exposed to

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<v Speaker 1>the information. Right, So it sounds like what you're saying

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<v Speaker 1>is that you think Jewel made a mistake in marketing

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<v Speaker 1>on social networks like Instagram, and you think it also

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<v Speaker 1>made a mistake and making it look appealing to young people.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that right? I don't think they necessarily made the mistake.

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<v Speaker 1>It was to me, in my opinion, it was an

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<v Speaker 1>accident because you know, any new products, they all use

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<v Speaker 1>social network channels. So and then jewics device. It's never colorful, right,

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<v Speaker 1>it's also space gray. So I just think it is

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<v Speaker 1>an unfortunate accident. Um. And then they tried to correct

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<v Speaker 1>once they seas the problem. But where you upset? I

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<v Speaker 1>mean like you spent this big part of your career

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<v Speaker 1>to create this you know, um new device. So like personally,

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<v Speaker 1>like where you're like, oh, you know, like I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>want to do that. I think I'm upset in a

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<v Speaker 1>way that now the whole focus um, not just Jewel,

0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:25.520
<v Speaker 1>but also all the cigarettes. Right, the whole focus is

0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:29.680
<v Speaker 1>on how it costs under age by being problem. So

0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:36.440
<v Speaker 1>there are a huge um smoker community that they actually

0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:41.760
<v Speaker 1>benefit from the cigarettes, but they're kind of ignored. It's

0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:45.160
<v Speaker 1>interesting because the wag and We talks about her startup

0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:48.640
<v Speaker 1>does seem to be very much in recognition of all

0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:52.640
<v Speaker 1>of the criticism that's been lodged against Jewel. She talks

0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:54.520
<v Speaker 1>about how miss isn't going to sell any of these

0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.720
<v Speaker 1>sweet dessert like flavors. She talks about how they're designing

0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:01.320
<v Speaker 1>it in this really understated way, in this true way,

0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:05.120
<v Speaker 1>but at the same time, she's completely unwilling to criticize Jewel.

0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:08.320
<v Speaker 1>Would you make of that? You know, I don't think

0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:10.720
<v Speaker 1>that she sees it as her fault. You know, you

0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:14.200
<v Speaker 1>would think, you know, I created this monster of a

0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:18.640
<v Speaker 1>product that has hooked a generation of kids on nicotine

0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:22.640
<v Speaker 1>addicted them, And she doesn't see that as as something

0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.680
<v Speaker 1>that she did. You know, in her mind, she sees

0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:29.160
<v Speaker 1>a product that she created to help people stop smoking.

0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:32.800
<v Speaker 1>So I don't know if she really feels that sense

0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:37.680
<v Speaker 1>of responsibility or anything like that. And it sounds like

0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:40.480
<v Speaker 1>what she wants to do in future iterations of their

0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:44.960
<v Speaker 1>product would further separate them from Jewel. Yeah, So right

0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:48.560
<v Speaker 1>now with the current products that they pushed out this summer,

0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:51.040
<v Speaker 1>they're very similar to Jewel. I think that they really

0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:53.800
<v Speaker 1>tried to solve some of the low hanging fruit problems,

0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:56.640
<v Speaker 1>like the colors, the pretty flavors, things that they could

0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:59.440
<v Speaker 1>address pretty quickly with the design. I think what she's

0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:04.359
<v Speaker 1>really passed about is the next iteration of these formulations,

0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:07.640
<v Speaker 1>the chemical kind of formulations that would bring you the

0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.000
<v Speaker 1>same kind of buzz, the same kind of nicotine hit,

0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:13.160
<v Speaker 1>but with a lot less nicotine, and that way it

0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:16.800
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't be as addictive as they currently are now. Of course,

0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:21.040
<v Speaker 1>the latest development is the mysterious vaping related lung disease

0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:23.920
<v Speaker 1>that's killed more than twenty people and has made more

0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:27.960
<v Speaker 1>than a thousand people sick. She seemed unfazed by all

0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:31.240
<v Speaker 1>of that too. Would you make of her response? So

0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:34.800
<v Speaker 1>clearly she had looked into it, but because it's inconclusive

0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:37.200
<v Speaker 1>that she wouldn't kind of take a stand either way,

0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:40.760
<v Speaker 1>And she did bring up that of one of the

0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:43.280
<v Speaker 1>theories is that it has to do with th HC

0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:46.400
<v Speaker 1>and cannabis oils and you know, really linking it to

0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:49.840
<v Speaker 1>the marijuana that she's against in in the first place.

0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:54.040
<v Speaker 1>But there wasn't any sense of for more or worry

0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:56.840
<v Speaker 1>or any of those kind of you know, emotions that

0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:00.360
<v Speaker 1>you'd expect to have from someone who's so close us

0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:03.760
<v Speaker 1>um to the vaping industry. As we were wrapping up

0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:06.280
<v Speaker 1>our interview, I asked Hinway if she could give us

0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:08.800
<v Speaker 1>a product sample so I could compare it to jewel

0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:12.960
<v Speaker 1>I've smoked maybe twice in my life before, and I

0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:15.159
<v Speaker 1>guess my question was if I were to puff on

0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:19.320
<v Speaker 1>miss E cigarette, would I be less likely to want

0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:23.480
<v Speaker 1>to do it again compared with puffing on a Jewely cigarette.

0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:27.760
<v Speaker 1>Since i'ment on smoker, if I tried one of your cigarettes,

0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:31.520
<v Speaker 1>and if I tried a jewel E cigarette, do you

0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:37.199
<v Speaker 1>think I would find your product the most revolting? Um,

0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:42.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure. Pallette Palette theres just so you know,

0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:46.360
<v Speaker 1>individual so personnel, so I I really don't know if

0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:49.640
<v Speaker 1>I can comment, But we don't have a whole lot

0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:59.720
<v Speaker 1>of dessert flavor, so you might find it growth that.

0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:01.919
<v Speaker 1>And I went home and I looked up where I

0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:06.080
<v Speaker 1>could buy a Jewelry cigarette, and then I popped into

0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:08.440
<v Speaker 1>a seven eleven the next day to buy the device,

0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:13.520
<v Speaker 1>and as the flavor pod, I appropriately got carded Um,

0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:15.720
<v Speaker 1>and then they didn't have any of the fruity flavors.

0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:19.280
<v Speaker 1>I got the Virginia tobacco pod and then Chilly You,

0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:23.320
<v Speaker 1>and I walked outside to try it. My wife thought

0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:27.080
<v Speaker 1>this was such a bad idea. She tried to talk why.

0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:32.760
<v Speaker 1>I think she was worried that it would get me addicted. You. First,

0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:34.840
<v Speaker 1>I took out the sample we got from Miss Labs.

0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:37.119
<v Speaker 1>It took us a minute to figure out how to

0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:40.320
<v Speaker 1>set it up and take this out the other way.

0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:42.720
<v Speaker 1>I think this way. I put in the Chinese tobacco

0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:48.720
<v Speaker 1>flavor pod. Okay, all right, what do I do? I

0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:54.520
<v Speaker 1>think to pull it and then I even hell and

0:18:54.560 --> 0:19:03.240
<v Speaker 1>I gave it a puff. What was it? Gross? Yeah?

0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:07.119
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's certainly not something that I would proactively do.

0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:20.400
<v Speaker 1>I think to try another one. Oh it's terrible. Oh

0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:29.080
<v Speaker 1>my god. Okay, alright, wow, that really hurts. It feels

0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:34.600
<v Speaker 1>like there's small pieces of glass um ripping out my throat.

0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.320
<v Speaker 1>That does not sound like something that I would want. Okay,

0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:41.840
<v Speaker 1>all right, let's try the jewel one. And then I

0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:44.960
<v Speaker 1>tried the Jewel device with the Virginia Tobacco Flavor pod.

0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:49.200
<v Speaker 1>This one had the same nicotine concentration as the miss

0:19:49.200 --> 0:20:02.040
<v Speaker 1>product of five percent nicotine. Okay, all right, that looked worse,

0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:09.720
<v Speaker 1>are you okay? Yeah? Yeah, I mean they're both disgusting.

0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:16.560
<v Speaker 1>Do you taste the difference? I don't know. I don't

0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:27.879
<v Speaker 1>think so. They birth both really hurt my throat. So, Shelly,

0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:30.240
<v Speaker 1>I think we set out on this visit with quite

0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:33.639
<v Speaker 1>a bit of skepticism that a different East cigarette was

0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:37.720
<v Speaker 1>in fact the answer to this current vaporing crisis. What's

0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:42.199
<v Speaker 1>your overall take? It seems just nuts right now to

0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:47.480
<v Speaker 1>launch an East cigarette company with this like regulatory tempest,

0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:51.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, just kind of overtaking the industry. You have

0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:54.639
<v Speaker 1>Jewel and the cross hairs, you have the rest of

0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:57.320
<v Speaker 1>the world regulators looking into it. You have all these

0:20:57.400 --> 0:20:59.240
<v Speaker 1>kids that are smoking. It kind of seems like the

0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:02.080
<v Speaker 1>whole world is against these cigarettes. You know, why would

0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:04.919
<v Speaker 1>you start an e cigarette company right now? You know?

0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:09.600
<v Speaker 1>I did find her very sincere, though um in her

0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:12.800
<v Speaker 1>passion to get smokers to switch to I guess, like

0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:16.080
<v Speaker 1>the lesser of two evils, And it was also really

0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:20.399
<v Speaker 1>sympathetic to her argument that nicotine patches and nicotine gum

0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:23.719
<v Speaker 1>just doesn't do enough for smokers. To get them the switch.

0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:26.720
<v Speaker 1>That's what I thought was one of the most interesting

0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:29.359
<v Speaker 1>things of everything that she had to say, which was

0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:31.919
<v Speaker 1>that like, hey, we tried these patches and these in

0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:34.479
<v Speaker 1>this gum and it didn't really work. People just didn't

0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:37.399
<v Speaker 1>want it. They wanted that high. Going back to our

0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:41.359
<v Speaker 1>puff test earlier, as a non smoker, I did find

0:21:41.480 --> 0:21:47.000
<v Speaker 1>mislabs e cigarettes very gross and very painful. It maybe

0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:49.320
<v Speaker 1>never want to do it again. But I felt the

0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:53.760
<v Speaker 1>exact same way about Jewel too um equally gross, equally painful.

0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:58.080
<v Speaker 1>And I guess even then, tons of non smokers have

0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:02.359
<v Speaker 1>gotten addicted through Jewel, So I'm not sure that missed,

0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:05.000
<v Speaker 1>at least in its current iteration, is making it any

0:22:05.119 --> 0:22:08.560
<v Speaker 1>less likely for non smokers to get hooked. I think

0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:12.720
<v Speaker 1>the promise will come in its next iteration if the scientist,

0:22:12.760 --> 0:22:15.760
<v Speaker 1>if Chinway, is able to get the next breakthrough that

0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:18.480
<v Speaker 1>she's hoping, which is to deliver the same kind of

0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:22.000
<v Speaker 1>hit with a much lower nicotine dose that won't get

0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:24.960
<v Speaker 1>people addicted. But it's also going to have to take

0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:28.640
<v Speaker 1>some regulation. I mean, this was the wild West for

0:22:28.640 --> 0:22:32.359
<v Speaker 1>for these companies, and so hopefully with more regulation, you know,

0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:34.800
<v Speaker 1>you will have kind of these lines that you can

0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:37.680
<v Speaker 1>stay in UM and you know, come up with some

0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:41.040
<v Speaker 1>some more innovation, some more science behind it, and you know,

0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:44.480
<v Speaker 1>create that cigarette that really does make people stop smoking

0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:57.800
<v Speaker 1>regular cigarettes. Decrupted is produced by me Akito, Sean Wyn

0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:00.760
<v Speaker 1>and Ethan Brooks and then he Wit. Contribut did reporting.

0:23:01.119 --> 0:23:04.639
<v Speaker 1>Our story editor is Anne vander May. Francesca Levie is

0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:07.320
<v Speaker 1>the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. We'll see you next week.

0:23:25.920 --> 0:23:25.960
<v Speaker 1>M