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Speaker 1: This is Alison Jones, casting director from the Office. Hello everybody,
Speaker 1: and welcome back to the Office Deep Dive. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Brian Baumgartner. Today you're going to be hearing my interview
Speaker 1: with Alison Jones, the casting director of the Office, the
Speaker 1: the person responsible for putting together the ensemble, our merry
Speaker 1: band of misfits on the Office. Now, you might think
Speaker 1: after casting her job was done, she was gone. That
Speaker 1: is that is not true. Allison was involved throughout the
Speaker 1: entire series, right, So every actor that comes on to
Speaker 1: the Office, even for one episode, she was um responsible
Speaker 1: working with the directors and the writers casting those roles.
Speaker 1: So from a guest star spot who just appears in
Speaker 1: one episodes two people like Rashida Jones, Kathy Bates, Idris Elbam,
Speaker 1: she works with the writers and the directors every week
Speaker 1: um to cast these characters. So Allison has the most
Speaker 1: amazing stories to tell, not even just about the Office,
Speaker 1: she has worked on so many incredible shows and movies.
Speaker 1: She is truly known as the greatest comedy casting director today.
Speaker 1: UM so enjoy Allison Jones. Bubble and Squeak. I love it.
Speaker 1: Bubble and Squeaker, Bubble and squeaker Cookie every moment lift
Speaker 1: over from the natty. Look at you, fancy, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: how are you. I'm so happy to see you. Look
Speaker 1: at a second older. I don't know, I really don't.
Speaker 1: I look younger. I don't know what that is. I
Speaker 1: have all my pilot stuff here. If you have any
Speaker 1: specific research material, I love it is. Yeah, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: You're good. Are you good? I'm very well? And you good? Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course you are. I'm good. Well, I don't know
Speaker 1: what quite understands what's happened with the Office. It's just
Speaker 1: going haywire. Well, I know that's kind of what we're
Speaker 1: trying to figure out. Why, because it's good. I guess,
Speaker 1: I guess, I guess what is this? I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm in good Barning Vietnam. Um, this is good, right,
Speaker 1: this is so fun. Well, the awesome thing is that.
Speaker 1: Um I even kept their silly reviews a box of
Speaker 1: stuff that I still haven't gone through. Yeah, it's all fun.
Speaker 1: The stuff we keep, um mine is just I printed
Speaker 1: out some emails and that kind of stuff. I have
Speaker 1: a message in Phyllis is writing, telling Greg where to
Speaker 1: meet Steve Carrell at what time at what DELI in
Speaker 1: Phyllis is writing. That's so crazy. So um, year ago,
Speaker 1: probably this month, we were finalizing cast. Yeah yeah, well
Speaker 1: no exactly because before we filmed in February and we
Speaker 1: started in two thousand three, because that's when I had to.
Speaker 1: I just remember that was when we started everything, right, Um,
Speaker 1: so when did you? Were you aware of the British
Speaker 1: version of The Office? You were before you were hired on?
Speaker 1: You you do that show? Okay? And did you like it?
Speaker 1: I loved it. I forget where we could see it,
Speaker 1: but it came on the scene at the same time
Speaker 1: it did, and it was these two new cutting edge
Speaker 1: comedy shows. And The Office was such a big thing
Speaker 1: because people were like, you're not gonna believe the show.
Speaker 1: You're not going to believe it's an actual show and
Speaker 1: not a documentary. So yes, I was aware of it okay,
Speaker 1: But at that time, there was nothing on American television
Speaker 1: that looked like that, not even close, you know, um,
Speaker 1: nothing that looked like because everybody thought it was a documentary.
Speaker 1: It was so subtly shot, and it was so subtly
Speaker 1: conceived of the only close thing would have been I guess, um,
Speaker 1: Larry Sanders, Larry Sanders. Yeah, and so how did you
Speaker 1: how did you come on board? Probably NBC set me
Speaker 1: up with a few other casting people to interview with
Speaker 1: Greg and Ben and Terry over it. There a little
Speaker 1: bungalow at Universal. So I went in thrilled, I got it,
Speaker 1: you know, an interview for this job. And um, I
Speaker 1: do remember saying to Phillis, this is a huge deal.
Speaker 1: This could be a huge deal if I get this one. Um.
Speaker 1: And it was a bunch of them at the table
Speaker 1: and Greg was Greg quiet, and you know, so you
Speaker 1: did Freaks and Geeks and we like the fact that
Speaker 1: you found real people on Freaks and I'm imitating Greg
Speaker 1: and Geeks and uh. After then again I had to
Speaker 1: meet with Ben Silverman in his house up in Mulholland
Speaker 1: Drive or something, and I remember it was during a
Speaker 1: playoff game for the Red Sox and I was waiting out.
Speaker 1: I'm a Red Sox fan, and I was waiting out
Speaker 1: in my car to see who won the game. And
Speaker 1: then I went in and realized he was also a
Speaker 1: Red Sox fan. So we were joyous and I probably
Speaker 1: got the job because of the Red Sox. Yeah. He
Speaker 1: talked about Paul Gi and Madi at the time. For
Speaker 1: Michael Scott, Yeah, okay, so that was the first name
Speaker 1: that came up. I probably had more names when I
Speaker 1: talked to Greg for the actual interview. Um, but I
Speaker 1: remember Ben mentioning Paul Giamatti, and he may have also
Speaker 1: mentioned Philip Symore Hoffman, but I for some reason, I
Speaker 1: specifically remember him saying Paul May at the time when
Speaker 1: movie stores wouldn't touch television, right, wouldn't touch it the
Speaker 1: bottom of the barrel. Yeah, so you come in. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, your list of stuff that you have worked
Speaker 1: on is like crazy, um, starting with Family Ties, the
Speaker 1: Best job Ever, Golden Girls, Fresh Prince Boy meets whirl Um,
Speaker 1: and then there seemed to be like a shift with
Speaker 1: Freaks and Geeks. I mean, Freaksing Geeks was kind of
Speaker 1: the first cool show I worked on and sort of
Speaker 1: non networking show, which is probably why it failed. But
Speaker 1: definitely Judd Apatow and Paul fi changed the whole scene
Speaker 1: in UM, the style of the comedy, the writing, the
Speaker 1: not the sitcom rhythm, the reality rhythm, the non beautiful
Speaker 1: people rhythm. With all due respect to you, Briant, but
Speaker 1: completely the first time I'd ever done anything like that
Speaker 1: because all the team shows at the time, the kids
Speaker 1: had to be beautiful. Yeah. I had just finished a
Speaker 1: pilot called Roswell High and every kid had to look
Speaker 1: like the kids from um Dawson's Creek and it was
Speaker 1: torture and every kid had to be beautiful and blah
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. And we tested Heath Ledger and he
Speaker 1: wasn't even cute enough to be on the show, according
Speaker 1: to the head of Fox. So all the rejects from
Speaker 1: that I gladly brought in for Freaks and Geeks because
Speaker 1: they were so much more interesting and talented. And it
Speaker 1: was great that Paul and Judd just wanted real kids, right,
Speaker 1: But Greg had seen Freaks and Geeks. That was the
Speaker 1: first thing he brought up. So Paul Feig, in this
Speaker 1: New Yorker piece, said that you will be recognized as
Speaker 1: having changed the face of comedy as much as any
Speaker 1: comedy filmmaker. What what do you think he meant by that?
Speaker 1: I think just bringing in um, real people who also
Speaker 1: were talented and funny and unique. Yeah, brought their own
Speaker 1: version of comedy too, whatever character it was. Plus, I
Speaker 1: did start in comedy, and it was you know, the Family,
Speaker 1: Ties and Benson. They were all sitcoms and you needed
Speaker 1: I instantly started to learn all the comics out there,
Speaker 1: and which meant you had to physically do the legwork
Speaker 1: and go to the comedy store ten nights in a
Speaker 1: row and go to the improv ten nights in a row.
Speaker 1: UM comics not necessarily being the most together people, God
Speaker 1: bless them, but right away hitting the ground running. I
Speaker 1: brought in all the stand ups and stuff. For if
Speaker 1: you watch Golden Girls, Ull occasionally see you know Don
Speaker 1: Marere is serving Betty White or something. I was always
Speaker 1: bringing in stand ups. It made sense to me, and
Speaker 1: for me it was based in SNL Saturday Night Live
Speaker 1: since the college, appreciating that new version of comedy, the real,
Speaker 1: smart and still at the same time stupid version of
Speaker 1: comedy in Second City SCTV. But stand ups was what
Speaker 1: we had access to at that time going out and
Speaker 1: doing the way, and they rarely got hired because their
Speaker 1: God bless him, not skilled at auditioning. You know, you'd
Speaker 1: bring a Knie Knee of Ardallos and Steve Carrell and
Speaker 1: they were usually very over the top. Not until jud
Speaker 1: and Paul came along did they think that was actually
Speaker 1: a plus and they were correct interesting, So they would
Speaker 1: have trouble because of that, oh I think, so yeah,
Speaker 1: to get by studios and things. I remember, you know,
Speaker 1: bringing people in like David's Bad and Rob Schneider and
Speaker 1: Jim Carey and Dennis Leary and they never got hired.
Speaker 1: Adam Sandler once got hired when he was probably twenty
Speaker 1: first show I was doing, because the executive producer, Richie
Speaker 1: rosen Stock, understood that his vibe was interesting and not
Speaker 1: just being able to deliver a joke like um a
Speaker 1: sitcom guy, right, And then that started to shift that
Speaker 1: in the office with Judd and Paul in particular, I think,
Speaker 1: and then your Adam McKay's came in and UM brought
Speaker 1: in all the Will Ferrells and all that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: It definitely was birthed way back when and prior to
Speaker 1: when I was doing it with Judd too, I think, right,
Speaker 1: I think that there was also kind of a change,
Speaker 1: like you said, from sort of that traditional sitcom style
Speaker 1: to more comedies with heart, I believe. So, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: was there a different type of person you were looking
Speaker 1: for for that the first sitcom stuff we did, it
Speaker 1: was mostly finding someone who literally could do it, could
Speaker 1: do sitcom joke delivery. That was the first thing I
Speaker 1: had to say, could they read? Could they do the jokes?
Speaker 1: But um, the writing I think matured a little bit too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but single camera comedy was not around, right, Yeah, so
Speaker 1: that was part of it. Absolutely. Not having still took
Speaker 1: a long time to catch on to most of us.
Speaker 1: It was pretty obvious that's the easiest to write for
Speaker 1: you don't have to put it into a template of
Speaker 1: writing a joke. And that was a slow evolution, right.
Speaker 1: Sports Night was the first good one and didn't even
Speaker 1: stay on the air, and it was so much funnier
Speaker 1: than a sitcom. Great, Yeah, did you work on Sports Night?
Speaker 1: I did not, but I just remember thinking, wow, this
Speaker 1: is great. There's no left track, blah blah blah blah. Right,
Speaker 1: so it became that's so interesting that you were looking
Speaker 1: for someone who could do it. Just do it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: deliver the jokes. Deliver that joke so that it hit,
Speaker 1: so the laugh track could play. Right. And somebody who
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily um you know, Jack Benny, somebody who also
Speaker 1: could act, not that he couldn't. God bless him, right,
Speaker 1: so um. Paul Rudd, in the same New Yorker article,
Speaker 1: said that you have the ability to find people that
Speaker 1: your heart can break for. Oh, that's very I didn't
Speaker 1: read the article, believe it. I'm too shy to read that.
Speaker 1: I get you. I've barely watched any but I am
Speaker 1: very I I think I'm very empathic when it comes
Speaker 1: to actors and comedy and thinking. Look at that kid
Speaker 1: from Mclub and he'd be awesome. That kid has gotten
Speaker 1: beat up so much in his life. He'd be awesome.
Speaker 1: So I think, um, yes, that was a very good
Speaker 1: way to put it. Very nice. It's a hard time
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Speaker 1: hire you need? Indeed, did you know that on the
Speaker 1: day Dr King was shot, the old black security detail
Speaker 1: normally assigned to him was called off. They're the ones
Speaker 1: who would not allow him to stay at any hotel
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Speaker 1: you know that on the day Dr King was shot
Speaker 1: two black firemen stationed across the street and one black
Speaker 1: police detective who is surveiling King. We're all taken off
Speaker 1: the job. What was the emergency that caused? Usually moved?
Speaker 1: She also did you ever asked what this was all about? Yes?
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Speaker 1: coming February. So, how did you go about assembling your
Speaker 1: list for the office? Well, uh, it was mostly leg
Speaker 1: where auditioning, and well, we first had to go in
Speaker 1: with a list. Nancy Perkins was the head of casting
Speaker 1: at Universal, and we went in with a long list
Speaker 1: of men and other names to remember and um, all
Speaker 1: the people at the time, half of them wouldn't do
Speaker 1: TV and some of them were not people who the
Speaker 1: network would want. But um, a list of probably thirty
Speaker 1: five names, and this is for just for Michael Scott
Speaker 1: or for all the roles kind of kind of the
Speaker 1: big ones. But um, those are mostly exercises. Lists are
Speaker 1: really just exercises because you don't know anything until you
Speaker 1: get out there and start making offers and start reading people.
Speaker 1: But um, I I always like to cast non star people.
Speaker 1: I think it pays off the most in the end
Speaker 1: in terms of risk reward UM finding a unique voice exactly, yes,
Speaker 1: and getting the people that I know, have known for
Speaker 1: years can step it up and be really interesting and
Speaker 1: really funny. Yeah. I had cast Rain before, I had
Speaker 1: cast Jenna, before, i'd read Steve before I had had
Speaker 1: the pleasure to cast him. But the people that we
Speaker 1: read for all these roles were groundlings and UCB people
Speaker 1: that um just did not get a break. So it
Speaker 1: was really fun to put them together with terrifically beautiful,
Speaker 1: subtle writing and everybody that was a little a little
Speaker 1: more well received than some other pilots because it was
Speaker 1: the Office and all those people were into the Office,
Speaker 1: the British version of the Office. Um, everybody's just assumed
Speaker 1: we'd get crucified. But we had great people coming anyway,
Speaker 1: just happy to be doing the pilot. Right, So you
Speaker 1: made your lists? Was there anyone you didn't know it
Speaker 1: at all from the cast? I didn't know you. I
Speaker 1: didn't know um Leslie, I didn't know Oscar and I
Speaker 1: remember I had seen him in an episode of Reno
Speaker 1: N one one, it was like, who's that freaking guy?
Speaker 1: He's hilarious. Um, I didn't know John. I had just
Speaker 1: met him on a general I did not know John
Speaker 1: until he read John. Yeah, that's who I wondered me
Speaker 1: and John. So I've heard And I didn't know this
Speaker 1: right because I didn't test with the other thing the
Speaker 1: testing processes. The uniqueness of Yes that was that the
Speaker 1: first time you had ever done yes, and it was
Speaker 1: it was a um sensible choice because normally you would
Speaker 1: go in and test at a network with a bunch
Speaker 1: of studio executives in the head of the network sitting
Speaker 1: in the back of the room and you come in
Speaker 1: and you're like, okay, be funny. That was the sitcom
Speaker 1: way to do it. And it didn't matter the level
Speaker 1: of subtlety. This one. We said, look at you're not
Speaker 1: going to get what this person has to offer unless
Speaker 1: you film it and see it what it's going to
Speaker 1: look like on screen. So greg I was able to
Speaker 1: talk them into that. So we did two days of testing,
Speaker 1: two long days of mixing and matching actors and Ken
Speaker 1: directing them and and Yes, it was the first time
Speaker 1: that has happened, I believe, at least in my experience
Speaker 1: with testing for a pilot, and that made sense because
Speaker 1: of the format of the show, which hadn't been done
Speaker 1: before either the documentary yeah, the documentary style, and I
Speaker 1: think yes. Part of the auditions was we had one
Speaker 1: one or two monologues that we let them pick from
Speaker 1: that were all of our sides were from, mostly from
Speaker 1: the pilot of the English Office, without being americanized too much,
Speaker 1: so a lot of it sounded English coming out of
Speaker 1: the American actor's mouths. But I remember the Gym side
Speaker 1: saying do you like a drink? I remember thinking we
Speaker 1: don't say that. Most of the actors said the same
Speaker 1: thing to do you like a drink? Yeah. The process
Speaker 1: do you remember it taking especially long or it took
Speaker 1: the fall of two thousand three for casting? It was
Speaker 1: very time consuming because we had to make DVDs. Sorry, um,
Speaker 1: not DVDs. We didn't have DVDs then we had VCR.
Speaker 1: We had half inch tapes that you had to copy
Speaker 1: in real time to send to England. I remember doing that.
Speaker 1: My whole Thanksgiving was making tapes which I still have
Speaker 1: of the Gym's of the Michael Scott's of the Palms
Speaker 1: for Ricky Gervais and Um, you know, you pressed tape
Speaker 1: and you press play and then you had to copy
Speaker 1: them in real time, so it was more time consuming
Speaker 1: for everybody having to actually look at all the tapes
Speaker 1: after getting them FedEx overnight. Um, how much was Ricky
Speaker 1: You said you made tapes and sent them to London?
Speaker 1: How much was Ricky did? Very much? So he didn't
Speaker 1: win with me, that's for sure. I've never met the guy,
Speaker 1: though I think he's genius in his golden globe stuff
Speaker 1: is effing genius. Anyway, Um, I never met him at all,
Speaker 1: but I know he weighed in heavily with um Greg
Speaker 1: about casting choices. They wouldn't I'm sure if he didn't
Speaker 1: like someone, they wouldn't have gone with them. So yes,
Speaker 1: it took a little bit longer, Um, and we read
Speaker 1: a lot of people, and I preread a lot of people.
Speaker 1: Now pickings are slimmer. You know, there's so many shows
Speaker 1: out there that you start with a hundred names and
Speaker 1: ten of them are available. Right then, it was more
Speaker 1: a little more freedom. Also, everybody is onto now hiring
Speaker 1: people from the Growlings and UCB and so that's who
Speaker 1: they bring in first for comedy. You know, one of
Speaker 1: my shameful things was I pre read Christin Wig and
Speaker 1: didn't even bring her back for Greg. I'm Kristen. I apologize,
Speaker 1: but um, I don't recall why. But that's funny. And
Speaker 1: then when I went back and looked at our audition,
Speaker 1: she was terrific. She was Kristin Wig doing it, and
Speaker 1: she was terrific. She was a groundling at the time,
Speaker 1: and I didn't. I just for some reason didn't bring
Speaker 1: her back for Greg. I think maybe Jenna. Jenna was
Speaker 1: the biggest shoe in. I think from the start of
Speaker 1: reading she was the first woman to read PAM. I
Speaker 1: remember Terry Weinberg saying I could watch you all day,
Speaker 1: and um, we had you know, we tested other PAMs,
Speaker 1: but I think Jenna was sort of the high bar
Speaker 1: that we set. And how much did um the chemistry
Speaker 1: between Jenna and John then impact John. I was not
Speaker 1: in the room at the time when they were reading together,
Speaker 1: but I assume it completely impacted John because Jenna John
Speaker 1: was effortless, effortless, and he had mostly just I had
Speaker 1: seen him in a commercial where he got his eyebrows
Speaker 1: shape or something, and I remember casting director New York
Speaker 1: Bonnie Finnigan saying, this kid, John Krasinski is effortlessly funny.
Speaker 1: You won't believe how he's funny. He just talks, and
Speaker 1: he's funny. Jenna, though lower in energy. I'm sure if
Speaker 1: you asked John that question he would say it hugely
Speaker 1: impacted his performance because in his first audition he was
Speaker 1: a little more strident. Jenna was always very low key interesting. Um,
Speaker 1: what were you looking for between? But we haven't talked
Speaker 1: about Rain. Oh yeah, yeah, Dwight and and Jim. Yeah,
Speaker 1: were there specific things that you were looking for? Rain
Speaker 1: is so odd that would have been one. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: knew that Dwight had to be odd, just an oddball
Speaker 1: and a nerd and sort of annoying. And Jim had
Speaker 1: to be a little cute, a little appealing. Um, not
Speaker 1: that Rain is not. He's very appealing. But m Rain
Speaker 1: just a comedy genius always. He must have loved the
Speaker 1: first He mean, he first read for Michael Scott, and
Speaker 1: I think I think he requested that through his agent
Speaker 1: that could he also read from Michael Scott or maybe
Speaker 1: I just brought him in for Michael Scott. I don't
Speaker 1: recall because he did read for both at the time. Um,
Speaker 1: he was the first person to read period. But I
Speaker 1: believe we mostly thought he was going to be Dwight
Speaker 1: and he also wanted to read for Michael Scott. He
Speaker 1: probably could have worked as Michael Scott too. God, we
Speaker 1: read a lot of good people that in some version
Speaker 1: would have worked. You know, all these people. You know,
Speaker 1: we rejected a lot of great people for the right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I remember Louis c. K wasn't available at the time,
Speaker 1: and that was a bummer because he would have been
Speaker 1: a he had to deal at CBS. He always had
Speaker 1: a deal at CBS. But of all the people, I
Speaker 1: wanted to bring it, and Paul Gimaty just said no
Speaker 1: right off the bat because it was a TV show,
Speaker 1: I believe. Then we went to Philip Symore Hoffman, the
Speaker 1: late great Philip sy Moore Hoffman, and he said no
Speaker 1: as well because it was TV. I'm oh, yeah, And
Speaker 1: it's funny because that's all Paul does now, right. And
Speaker 1: the great thing is I started out I have nothing
Speaker 1: makes me happier to see that TV is the new
Speaker 1: film nothing, because so many people rejected all the TV
Speaker 1: I worked on for twenty years, because it was TV.
Speaker 1: It was like, I don't want to do TV. And
Speaker 1: stunt casting, as they call it now, was not really
Speaker 1: a thing when I started. My boss, Judith Wiener, used
Speaker 1: to call it love boat casting when they made us
Speaker 1: put a big name in a role that made no sense.
Speaker 1: You know, Stevie Wonders Limo breaks down outside of the
Speaker 1: Huxtable's house and he he comes in. And so I
Speaker 1: started without doing that. Um. And also for some reason,
Speaker 1: I just thought I was supposed to find new people,
Speaker 1: and maybe that that must have come from Judith. Go
Speaker 1: out there and find new funny voices. UM. So you
Speaker 1: like casting unknowns and essentially everybody unknown in this Do
Speaker 1: you remember was there pushback from the network about that? Uh?
Speaker 1: Sometimes push back from the people in the room, Remember
Speaker 1: Greg and I really Patton Oswalt for Michael Scott and
Speaker 1: some of the people in the room. No, he gave,
Speaker 1: of course a fantastic reading, and Patton was a stand
Speaker 1: up at the time. Um. Mostly before they got to
Speaker 1: the network, it was pushed packed from various people in
Speaker 1: the room. The network then was not as intrusive as
Speaker 1: they are now. They don't see every single goddamn audition
Speaker 1: before they approve who's going to test? We just told
Speaker 1: them who were testing. We made the test option deal
Speaker 1: and showed them the tests. It wasn't everybody at a
Speaker 1: certain level getting approval after approval after approval of who
Speaker 1: can even go near besides, you know that that exist.
Speaker 1: You can tell him sarcasm that exists? Now, Yeah? Right?
Speaker 1: How much discussion was there or were you aware of
Speaker 1: that writers were going to end up being actors? I
Speaker 1: think at the beginning, b J came in, Greg said
Speaker 1: there's a couple of guys I want to bring in
Speaker 1: to see if they'll work as actors too, And Mandy
Speaker 1: didn't have to read as far as I know, But
Speaker 1: b J came in, and BJ was hired as an actor.
Speaker 1: He was hired as an actor. But also Greg was
Speaker 1: cognizant effect that he was a writer as well. Greg
Speaker 1: was up front about that right away. I didn't know
Speaker 1: Paul or anything at the time. PAULI burstin or and
Speaker 1: Greg had us bringing a lot of his friends who
Speaker 1: wrote for The Simpsons, who were awesomely weird and great,
Speaker 1: who I didn't know at all. I didn't know. I
Speaker 1: didn't It was another the first time I realized writers
Speaker 1: were just as funny as actors when it came to
Speaker 1: this kind of comedy, if not more. Um, some of
Speaker 1: those people, god bless him, were too weird for viewing. Um.
Speaker 1: But um, he totally was upfront about having trying to
Speaker 1: get some people who could write end. Now there's a
Speaker 1: little funky thing about trying to do that. Now there's
Speaker 1: unions who get find you or something if you do that.
Speaker 1: But then it was fine. Um. Who was the first
Speaker 1: person cast? Was it? Jenna? No? I think they all came.
Speaker 1: I think we all went to the network and looked
Speaker 1: at tapes, and I think Greg he showed the the
Speaker 1: cast he wanted and that's who was approved. And that
Speaker 1: was cool. Kevin Riley really got it. I have to
Speaker 1: tell you, he really got it. Yeah, that's not commonly
Speaker 1: the case. What what did Kevin get? He got the
Speaker 1: vibe of the office. Kevin Riley really, Uh, you could
Speaker 1: tell loved the genre and the show and he got it. Yes,
Speaker 1: he did. He got it right away. And whoever hired
Speaker 1: Greg Daniels got it too. Who would have that been?
Speaker 1: Kevin Ben Ben Silverman? Completely? Yeah. Hi, I'm Glory Adam,
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Speaker 1: So the rest of the ensemble like Angela. Yes, Angela
Speaker 1: had had read for Pam, right, Angela read for Pam
Speaker 1: and then Angela I sort of knew upfront that she
Speaker 1: was related to Greg somehow, so I said, I remember
Speaker 1: Phillis and I saying this too, Greg, Okay, what we
Speaker 1: think we should do is pretend we don't know she's
Speaker 1: related to you, and we'll say she's our choice. And
Speaker 1: she was great for that that role. I don't know
Speaker 1: if that role was based on a person in the
Speaker 1: British show. I don't think it was Um. So we
Speaker 1: had a little plan with Greg. We're gonna push for
Speaker 1: Angela because we know she's right, but we're going to
Speaker 1: pretend we don't know she's related to And then when
Speaker 1: we were in the room, Greg for some reason objected
Speaker 1: and Phillis and I were like kicking each other under
Speaker 1: the table. Jesus, but somehow, I don't know what happened there,
Speaker 1: but we got Angela. So maybe that was his um
Speaker 1: reverse psychology or something. But we had old Um an
Speaker 1: Oscar similar. Oh, so you didn't know Oscar before. I
Speaker 1: didn't know Oscar. I had seen him like the week
Speaker 1: before the session one, and he was so good and
Speaker 1: I was so embarrassed I didn't know him. Most everybody
Speaker 1: read for Stanley. I think I think there were two parts. Basically, Yes,
Speaker 1: the genius casting of Greg was seeing how Mulaura would
Speaker 1: have worked because not necessarily a huge comedy person. That
Speaker 1: was the year when people um wanted Helen Hunt or
Speaker 1: somebody like that. So, um, these lovely women who could
Speaker 1: also be funny. And did you know m Laura before? Oh? Yes,
Speaker 1: she was a child actor. Knew her. She was a
Speaker 1: child actress, right, and gorgeous too. It was like, okay,
Speaker 1: well we'll still bring her in because he is the
Speaker 1: thing about that people have to be real and not
Speaker 1: necessarily high fashion models. But um, what is this? Was
Speaker 1: this a true? Um? I remember hearing this at some point.
Speaker 1: Was there Scranton pretty or Scranton Hot? Sorry, Scranton hot.
Speaker 1: Scranton Hot sounds more familiar. It's like when we did
Speaker 1: Veep it was like they have to be Washington d
Speaker 1: c attractive, not real attractive, and they had to look
Speaker 1: basically dumpy. Yes, that was definitely a thing. Scranton hot. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Do you remember the casting process for Amy Adams oh yes, um,
Speaker 1: Amy Heckerling. Was she the director? Amy Heckerling. Um. I
Speaker 1: thought she looked too much like Jenna, so we didn't
Speaker 1: hire her. We hired somebody else at first, and then um,
Speaker 1: somebody else in the room wanted to go for stunt
Speaker 1: casting and I just did not want to do that.
Speaker 1: I was the whole time. I think I was hated
Speaker 1: because I would not shut up about how it's a documentary.
Speaker 1: Suddenly Matt Damon isn't going to show up in Scranton,
Speaker 1: so that drove me crazy. Um was Greg on board
Speaker 1: with that? Oh, for the most part, Greg was on
Speaker 1: board with it. But as the network started getting more
Speaker 1: involved with sweep sweak and stuff, they started saying, you
Speaker 1: have to use Ben affleck or blah blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: and I was everybody would say that. I was always
Speaker 1: against that. I never agreed with that at all. It
Speaker 1: just to me it broke the DNA of the show.
Speaker 1: So we never did it much at all. Right, the
Speaker 1: Super Bowl episode that pissed me off, Yes, but they
Speaker 1: cleverly thought of a little way to put Jack Black
Speaker 1: in there. He was on a YouTube thing or something.
Speaker 1: It was. Um. I never normally would talk back to
Speaker 1: a studio executive. But I believe I did it on
Speaker 1: a conference call. I would never normally ever do that
Speaker 1: and say something was a bad idea because they were
Speaker 1: mentioning Brad Pitt and George Clooney was like, what are
Speaker 1: you Evan kidding me? They're going to show up in Scranton.
Speaker 1: So I was vociferous about not not wanting that right.
Speaker 1: So after the pilot, your job gets much easier through
Speaker 1: that first season, second season, yes, yeah, there weren't that
Speaker 1: many people that came on. But I wanted to talk
Speaker 1: just a little bit about how Ed Helms and Rashida
Speaker 1: were brought in. Where they brought in? Was that through
Speaker 1: you or no? I think, I think, I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't know. Fully, you'd have to ask Greg how Ed
Speaker 1: Helms came into the picture. It may have been through NBC.
Speaker 1: Rashida auditioned and we had to audition many, many women
Speaker 1: for that part, and Rashida got that, Um she's the
Speaker 1: most gorgeous woman in the world, so she had to
Speaker 1: play it down. But her chemistry with John was great.
Speaker 1: They were friends at the time, and we read many
Speaker 1: other very good women at the time. But that was
Speaker 1: audition Ed, I think came in through NBC and Greg.
Speaker 1: I believe that was created for him. He was freaking great.
Speaker 1: I mean Ed had just come off The Daily Show,
Speaker 1: which pretty much produced every jure funny person on the
Speaker 1: Office and thereafter everything else Yeah except me, except for
Speaker 1: Brian and Phillis. Yeah. Um, when Steve left. Thoughts, what
Speaker 1: did you think was the ended? Yes? Totally I thought
Speaker 1: it should have ended though I had always loved people
Speaker 1: like Katherine Take these people that Greg was aware of
Speaker 1: that could do great things on the show. I have
Speaker 1: no idea how they came up with James Spader or so. Yes,
Speaker 1: I thought the show should have ended, except for the
Speaker 1: actor's sake. I did not want it. Was like, no,
Speaker 1: we gotta keep Phillis employed. They all have to keep
Speaker 1: the job. Um, And I thought it made sense it
Speaker 1: could go on. But I just thought Steve was so
Speaker 1: great and it was seven years. It would be tough.
Speaker 1: But it also made sense that Ed was the logical
Speaker 1: choice to be bumped up. I think so. Some people
Speaker 1: who have come in have talked about being disappointed that
Speaker 1: the network didn't trust the existing ensemble enough and felt
Speaker 1: like they needed to bring in I'm sure that passed
Speaker 1: me off to. Yeah, I would not privy to those
Speaker 1: those things about Spader, and I believe many of us thought,
Speaker 1: what do you mean you can't make it one of
Speaker 1: these guys on the show. Yes, I'm sure that was
Speaker 1: the case. Right. Where do you think the ensemble of
Speaker 1: the Office fits in television history? Good? Okay, right up
Speaker 1: there with Mary Tyler Moore and Lou Grant, which were
Speaker 1: genius and wonderful right up there, I think, and like
Speaker 1: news Radio and amazing ensemble, Seinfeld, amazing ensemble. Up there
Speaker 1: was all of them. Yeah. What do you think made
Speaker 1: it special? The people? The people and number one the writing,
Speaker 1: Ricky Gervais, the style. Yeah, you give Ricky credit completely. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was like an Adam bomb of comedy. When the
Speaker 1: British Office hit the scene, it was like an Adam
Speaker 1: bomb of comedy. So yes, I would see Ricky Gervais
Speaker 1: and Stephen Merchant right where I am today, and my
Speaker 1: entire life is due to you agreeing to see me. Oh,
Speaker 1: thank you. I'm sure I looked at your head shot
Speaker 1: and thought, yeah, he'd be good. He looks like a
Speaker 1: real dude, right, and Phillis and everybody on the show.
Speaker 1: How you know who were unknowns. How does that make
Speaker 1: you feel? Terrific? Makes me feel happy and it it
Speaker 1: is the reward I get in this career and why
Speaker 1: I think why many casting people like what we do
Speaker 1: because we get to assist people in um getting gigs.
Speaker 1: But it's more than that. I mean. I remember coming
Speaker 1: back and after getting the office, saying to feel as
Speaker 1: this could be the most important job I've ever had.
Speaker 1: And I'm not kidding. I said that to her, thinking
Speaker 1: selfishly but having no idea. It's the most important job
Speaker 1: I've ever had because Phillis life's changed. It changed her life.
Speaker 1: What's crazy to me is that you had the same
Speaker 1: reaction that I had. Oh my god, I got the office. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh you had that too, of course, yes, when I
Speaker 1: got by you, I love that. I remember when Jennet
Speaker 1: we cast Jenna. I remember calling her agent at the time,
Speaker 1: Michael Green, and I got emotional because we don't get
Speaker 1: to tell the actors, but we get to tell the agents.
Speaker 1: And I remember saying to Michael exactly this, I'm calling
Speaker 1: to tell you that Jenna Fisher got the office, and
Speaker 1: somehow there was silence on the phone. I was about
Speaker 1: to cry. I think Michael was about to cry. Um,
Speaker 1: but I was always happy to say. Sometimes business affairs
Speaker 1: beat you to the punch and they tell the agent.
Speaker 1: I always say, please, after all this, can we at
Speaker 1: least tell the agent that they got the job right? Um?
Speaker 1: Why do you think that? You know? So Rain and
Speaker 1: I talk and and I said to him, this is
Speaker 1: close to a year ago now. I said, I think
Speaker 1: that the show is bigger now than it was when
Speaker 1: we were on NBC on Thursday nights. And he said, oh,
Speaker 1: it's a factor of yeah, by a factor of a hundred.
Speaker 1: Why why do you think? I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think the real people in it, but I think everybody.
Speaker 1: Everybody can relate to working in an office like that.
Speaker 1: You can insert yourself into that show very easily. And
Speaker 1: you love the actors, You love you guys, and the
Speaker 1: writing is brilliant and it's very subtly funny. But it
Speaker 1: must there must be some comfort in the office. See
Speaker 1: I find comfort in Downtown Abbey. So I watched them
Speaker 1: a million times, but there must be great comfort. And
Speaker 1: what I also learned recently, kids love the Office. Now
Speaker 1: I love it. Kids who were nine or ten, It
Speaker 1: wasn't a show that was made for them. Really no,
Speaker 1: oh god no, And they're being probably a little more
Speaker 1: sophisticated these days. But I think there must be some
Speaker 1: measure of comfort, especially in today's world, where, um, things
Speaker 1: that happened to you happened on the office, same way
Speaker 1: as in Seinfeld, things that happened to you happened in
Speaker 1: the office, and you have you had a jerk in
Speaker 1: your office. And yes, yes, um, I can't rewatch The Office.
Speaker 1: It makes me too sad because I had so much
Speaker 1: fun on it. It just makes me too melancholy. I
Speaker 1: cannot watch it. But then again, I can't even watch
Speaker 1: Family Ties. I feel, oh god, that was so much fun.
Speaker 1: I can't deal with it. But what I'll zoom in
Speaker 1: on is who came in for certain roles. What does
Speaker 1: the office mean to you? Just very proud I was
Speaker 1: able to work on it. That's what it means to me.
Speaker 1: I mean very proud. I'm proud, proud, proud to say
Speaker 1: I I oh, I worked on the office. Awesome. Yeah, Alison,
Speaker 1: thank you so freaking much, thank you, thank you. That's all, folks,
Speaker 1: Actually that is not all, because you are going to
Speaker 1: be hearing some more from Alison next week. When we
Speaker 1: interview Phillis Smith a k A. Phyllis laughing fans, Allison
Speaker 1: makes a surprise appearance and I cannot wait for you
Speaker 1: to hear. It makes me emotional thinking about him until then.
Speaker 1: Huge thank you to Allison for coming in and chatting
Speaker 1: with me. Allison, I know you do not love being
Speaker 1: in the spotlight, but you were amazing to all of
Speaker 1: you listeners. Have a fantastic week. I will see you
Speaker 1: next time on The Office Deep Dive. The Office Deep
Speaker 1: Dive is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner,
Speaker 1: alongside our executive producer Langley. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer,
Speaker 1: our associate producer is Emily Carr, and our assistant editor
Speaker 1: is Diego Tapia. My main man in the booth is
Speaker 1: Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by
Speaker 1: my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed
Speaker 1: by seth Olandsky. Hey, it's de Lieva. I'm here to
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