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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of Iheartrading.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noel.

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Speaker 3: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: superducer Paul Mission Control Deck, and most importantly, you are here.

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Speaker 3: And that makes this the stuff they don't want you

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Speaker 3: to know. It feels like we say this increasingly often

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Speaker 3: at the top of every week. But what a time

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Speaker 3: China is launching AI satellites. There's here in our fair

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Speaker 3: metropolis of Atlanta. A former president is going to court

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Speaker 3: doing a little law in order thing on Rico Law.

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Speaker 4: It's gonna be a purp walk and everything, or at

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Speaker 4: least it sounds like getting mug shot and weighed and

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Speaker 4: measured and stuff. That's what I heard, which is typical intake. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: but I don't think it happened the last time. I

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Speaker 4: think he like kind of scooted out of that. This

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Speaker 4: seems like they're making a show of it. But you're right,

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Speaker 4: it is absolutely procedural. But for some reason I think

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Speaker 4: that the last couple. He didn't have to do that.

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Speaker 4: There certainly wasn't a mug shot that was like circulated.

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Speaker 5: It's just crazy to me that they're all rolling through

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Speaker 5: Fulton County jail.

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Speaker 6: Yep, that's what.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah. For anybody who has had the distinct

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Speaker 3: displeasure of considering Fulton County lock Up in Alma matter

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Speaker 3: non consensually, you'll understand it is. It is not a

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Speaker 3: super fun place, and it's also hilarious regardless of your

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Speaker 3: political ideology. It's also hilarious that this country, for more

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Speaker 3: than two hundred years ever thought, huh, can people run

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Speaker 3: for president when they're in trouble? Anyway, that's a story

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Speaker 3: for another day. That's the news you get everywhere you look,

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Speaker 3: and that is not what strange news is about. This evening,

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Speaker 3: we are going to travel to the Moon in hopefully

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Speaker 3: quite inspiring, if him perfect way to the moon. We

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Speaker 3: are going to look at some breaking news that will

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Speaker 3: have a lot of questions, questions that I imagine will not

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Speaker 3: be answered by the time this publishes. But before we

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Speaker 3: do any of that, we had an excellent conversation off air,

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Speaker 3: and Noel, you hipped Matt and I to something that

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Speaker 3: I had not heard about. It's a blast from the past.

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Speaker 3: Maybe we should start recording our our BS sessions before

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Speaker 3: we roll. But Fire Festival didn't we talk about, Like,

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Speaker 3: how long ago did we talk about?

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Speaker 4: This was twenty eighteen, I think, is when the hubbub

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Speaker 4: was hubbubbing about that one. And since then, I think

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Speaker 4: we've been We've been gifted with two competing documentaries on

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Speaker 4: the subject. I think one was Netflix and one was Hulu,

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Speaker 4: and there was like debate as to which one was better.

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Speaker 4: They're both pretty good, all, you know, chronicling the misadventures

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Speaker 4: of one Billy McFarland and also one jaw Rule, Remember

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Speaker 4: jaw Right.

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Speaker 5: Can I just say I, for the record, I did

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Speaker 5: not believe this was act, this was true when you

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Speaker 5: sent some stuff to us. No, I was like, that's BS,

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Speaker 5: that's not real video.

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Speaker 4: If it's a video, it's gotta be true, dude, it's

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Speaker 4: gotta be uh.

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Speaker 3: And I'm just gonna say, because we have no joke

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Speaker 3: left behind, we're not gonna belabor it on Eric because

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Speaker 3: you've heard it from us before. But every time jaw

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Speaker 3: Rule comes up, there three of us repeat verbatim that

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Speaker 3: amazing joke. By Dave Chappelle not even going to ruin it,

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Speaker 3: not even gonna ruin it. Uh tune in, Well, where

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Speaker 3: is jah rule?

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Speaker 4: Is the question on many you know, many a lip

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Speaker 4: and he's conspicuously absent in this and then you say

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Speaker 4: it update he said poignantly, it's yeah, I think it

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Speaker 4: speaks volumes. Perhaps it is really funny seeing him kind

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Speaker 4: of kicking the can down the road in the documentaries

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Speaker 4: where like, you know, things are just Jurassic Park level

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Speaker 4: falling apart, you know, and Josh just kind of in

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Speaker 4: the background like this is awkward, you know. Of course,

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Speaker 4: Billy McFarland is you know, he's this classic kind of

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Speaker 4: I guess Silicon Valley startup era huckster. You know, we

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Speaker 4: like not as evil outwardly as Who's the farm of

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Speaker 4: bro I've already forgotten his name, Yes, Grelly. Yeah, with

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Speaker 4: the Wu tang One of a kind record and all

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Speaker 4: of that. Of course, you know, hiking the price of

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Speaker 4: you know, survive old drugs for people with debilitating health conditions.

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Speaker 3: That guy's cool, I'm sure.

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Speaker 4: So I went to prison, got out and started hucking

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Speaker 4: it again. Is hucking a verb for what a huckster?

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Speaker 3: Does do you, Huck bro It's American English Billy McFarland,

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Speaker 3: though he went to prison for a while, I want

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Speaker 3: to say it was at least a handful of years,

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Speaker 3: maybe even as many as six.

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Speaker 4: I feel like now now the thing happened in the

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Speaker 4: documentaries came out. But there were those like fast tracked

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Speaker 4: kind of documentaries. And you know, this is a festival,

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Speaker 4: by the way, about social media influencers, and so there's

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Speaker 4: probably a lot of video, a lot of footage around

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Speaker 4: they were able to just pull off the Internet. I

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Speaker 4: feel like a lot of the footage in those both

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Speaker 4: of those documentaries was in the vertical format.

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Speaker 6: Probably not for nothing.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, Billy McFarland is back, and he has posted

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Speaker 4: a video wherein he says Fire Festival too, coming coming

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Speaker 4: to a private Caribbean island near you.

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Speaker 6: Details are sparse, you know, some of.

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Speaker 4: The artists that were associated with the first one were

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Speaker 4: like pretty big like folks like Blink one eighty two

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Speaker 4: and the Migos and a couple.

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Speaker 6: Other names that I'm that I'm forgetting.

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Speaker 4: But no major, major laser Okay, no no lineup announced

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Speaker 4: as of yet, but apparently tickets are already on sale

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Speaker 4: and they're not doing like too bad, and they're you know,

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Speaker 4: tiered tickets. So I think he's the first batch is

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Speaker 4: in the four hundred dollars range. And I think one

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Speaker 4: of the big things about that first Fire Festival were

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Speaker 4: the tickets just in general were very, very expensive. They

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Speaker 4: were like prohibitively expensive. This was like a status thing,

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Speaker 4: you know, So I think they were you know, over

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Speaker 4: one thousand dollars from maybe even just the like basic

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Speaker 4: tier tickets. And you know, as is often the case

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Speaker 4: for conferences and festivals and things like that, there's always

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Speaker 4: early special of some you know kind this one seems

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Speaker 4: a little bit on the desperate side in terms of

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Speaker 4: compared to like what they were asking the first time around,

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Speaker 4: which is understandable in case you'll forget you forgot, you know.

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Speaker 4: I compared it to Jurassic Park because it was just like,

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Speaker 4: you know, the all the fences went down, the monsoon

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Speaker 4: came in, and the ve loss of raptors were running wild,

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Speaker 4: gutting social media influence that didn't happen, but the first

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Speaker 4: two mainly did. And there were you know, meals of

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Speaker 4: like it looked like rations, It looked like wartime rations.

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Speaker 6: There's famous pictures.

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Speaker 4: Of like the crappiest sadus cheese sandwich and wilted salad

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Speaker 4: that you've ever seen that made the rounds back in

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Speaker 4: those days of back in the glory days of Fire

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Speaker 4: Festival one point zero. What we do know is that

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Speaker 4: Billy McFarlane did come out with a video and the

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Speaker 4: quote speaks for itself. Honestly, I'm just gonna read it

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Speaker 4: because it's pretty good.

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Speaker 6: Let's see. He says the following in this video.

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Speaker 4: It has been the absolute wildest journey to get here,

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Speaker 4: and it really all started during a seven month stint

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Speaker 4: in solitary confinement.

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Speaker 6: I'm sorry, I shouldn't laugh.

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Speaker 2: It sucks. That sucks.

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Speaker 4: Solitary is awful, and we know it's a very brutal

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Speaker 4: and inhumane thing. What's what is funny though? And it

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Speaker 4: can't help but laugh at this. You know why he

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Speaker 4: was in solitary?

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Speaker 6: Guys?

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Speaker 3: Why was he in solitary?

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Speaker 6: No for podcasting?

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Speaker 2: What?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: For like trying to podcast from prison that's apparently against

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Speaker 4: the terms of his confinement. Sort of like when a hacker,

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Speaker 4: you know, isn't allowed to touch a computer.

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Speaker 6: For like ten years.

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Speaker 4: I guess this guy isn't allowed to do a podcast

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Speaker 4: or you know, touch social media. Obviously that not in

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Speaker 4: the case now that he's out, But that's very weird

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Speaker 4: in prison.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I heared. How is that not a

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Speaker 3: free speech? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I agree, And I did hear this secondhand. I'm it

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Speaker 4: may have been a joke. I sure, hope it's true.

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Speaker 4: So take that with a grain of salt, But that

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Speaker 4: is that is what I had heard.

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Speaker 5: Just to make a connection here, I was reading about

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Speaker 5: the indictments going on, you know, with former President Donald

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Speaker 5: Trump and a lot of the people you know that

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Speaker 5: are allegedly involved in that election scheme here in Georgia.

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Speaker 5: What are the points of the bond agreement for former

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Speaker 5: President Donald Trump to be you know, not kept in

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Speaker 5: a jail right while he's going through this stuff. Is

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Speaker 5: to not communicate with any of the other quote co

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Speaker 5: conspirators via social media. So like it is, it is

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Speaker 5: like a way of trying to prevent people who've gone

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Speaker 5: through something like this from almost messaging out to other people,

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Speaker 5: possibly in this guy's case, co conspirators.

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Speaker 3: Right. Oh, it's similar to Andrew Tatem Hmm.

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Speaker 6: I think that's right.

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Speaker 4: And I did just find confirmation from a story from

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Speaker 4: Pitchfork from twenty twenty Fire Festivals, Billy McFarlane placed in

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Speaker 4: solitary confinement following podcast launch. It says, let's see, we

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Speaker 4: believe the investigation stems from his participation in the podcast

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Speaker 4: and the photographs that were taken and utilized in trailer

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Speaker 4: of his podcast, dumpster Fire, that launched while he was confined.

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Speaker 4: It's a McFarland's lawyer. That's what McFarland's lawyer told The Times,

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Speaker 4: The New York Times. I believe let's see, which we're

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Speaker 4: all properly taken. So this is him saying he didn't

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Speaker 4: He did everything right and.

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Speaker 3: They put him in solitary.

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Speaker 4: We don't believe he's violated any rule regulation and there

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Speaker 4: can't possibly be anything else. He's been a model prisoner there,

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Speaker 4: which would seem to be the case. So he It says,

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Speaker 4: McFarland's a sixt six year prison term. He pled guilty

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Speaker 4: to two counts of wire fraud and let's see he stated,

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Speaker 4: this is from Pitchfork, on the first episode of dumpster Fire,

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Speaker 4: that any proceeds generated by the show would go towards

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Speaker 4: the twenty six million dollars he Owes, the investors he

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Speaker 4: defrauded in the Fire Festival debacle. According to his lawyer,

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Speaker 4: he's currently scheduled be released August thirtieth, twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 6: That's so he got early release.

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Speaker 3: It would appear so.

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Speaker 4: Unless unless I'm unless I'm mistaken, and he is in

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Speaker 4: prison still, but I don't think so. I think he

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Speaker 4: was making that video as a free man. He was

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Speaker 4: released in May of twenty twenty two. He only served

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Speaker 4: four years for defrauding investors in committing a wire fraud.

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Speaker 4: There was another ticket scam that he actually got in

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Speaker 4: trouble for that was unrelated to Fire Festival. Who's apparently

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Speaker 4: doing some kind of like internet kind of bait and

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Speaker 4: switch scam or like a like a counterfeit.

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Speaker 6: I guess where he was selling tickets on the cheap.

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Speaker 4: I guess kind of like a seat geeks kind of situation,

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Speaker 4: or where you like buy a ticket from an individual

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Speaker 4: and the hopes that you're going to get it and

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Speaker 4: all that, and you know there can be shady results

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Speaker 4: in those situations, Usually it works out. I think he

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Speaker 4: did something a little more direct to consumers that really

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Speaker 4: definitely was fraud.

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Speaker 6: So yeah, that's really that's kind of all there is.

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Speaker 4: It's I just you know, you'd think the guy would

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Speaker 4: have learned his lesson or done it somewhere else or

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Speaker 4: pivoted to something different. But I guess no publicity is

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Speaker 4: bad publicity because it does seem like the tickets are selling.

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Speaker 4: It's very weird, very weird. I wonder if people are

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Speaker 4: like hate buying them. Yeah, yes, it's to be a

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Speaker 4: part of something. I don't know, man, it's weird.

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Speaker 3: It's social media as well, right, Like it's your excellent

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Speaker 3: point about the earlier instance of Fire Festival, A lot

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Speaker 3: of people were posting and I guess engaging in the

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Speaker 3: dopamine casino. So if we think about it that way,

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Speaker 3: there may be people who are signing up with the

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Speaker 3: cynical expectation that things go wrong again, and they can.

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Speaker 3: They can be the first accounts with those vertical videos

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Speaker 3: of those just atrocious sandwiches. Those are like prison no worse,

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Speaker 3: they're like jail level sandwiches the way they look exactly.

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Speaker 4: No, And you're right, I mean, to the point of

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Speaker 4: no publicity is bad publicity. That typically is the case

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Speaker 4: for social media folks. I mean, even just to be

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Speaker 4: associated with something they know will be a storm of

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Speaker 4: some variety is just going to boost their profiles, and

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Speaker 4: then they're not necessarily like culpable or anything. I think

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Speaker 4: they just see this as like maybe they see what's

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Speaker 4: coming and they're like, oh, this will be an opportunity,

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Speaker 4: or maybe they're just blissfully ignorant and think this is

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Speaker 4: going to be great and that he's reformed and he's

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Speaker 4: obviously gonna do a great job this time. There were

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Speaker 4: six sequels to Jurassic Park, by the way, so if

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Speaker 4: not more, I think I judged pulled that number out

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Speaker 4: of the air, but quite a few sequels to Jurassic

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Speaker 4: Park where they figured out a way to keep doing

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Speaker 4: it even despite you know, previous results.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean it makes sense humanity, even before

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Speaker 3: social media, even before the invention of the car, people

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Speaker 3: always slowed down to watch an accident, you know what

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Speaker 3: I mean, So that that fascination may be part of it.

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Speaker 3: But to be honest with you, you know, here's hoping

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Speaker 3: it goes better. Here's hoping everybody has a great time.

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Speaker 3: I want to take accountability and be absolutely honest here.

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Speaker 3: When you were you were talking about a Caribbean island,

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Speaker 3: Noll I lazily searched the internet for Fire Island and

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Speaker 3: that is a very different place. Yeah, just giving everyone

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Speaker 3: a heads up that's not related to the festival. That

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Speaker 3: Fire Island is spelled with is the regular way.

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Speaker 4: If I'm not mistaken with a y because it's extreme.

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Speaker 4: That's that's how you know, That's all I need to know.

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Speaker 6: You got a funny letter in there.

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Speaker 3: I'm there.

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Speaker 6: Put me in the game.

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Speaker 4: I'll be in the front row playing with the pigs.

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Speaker 4: That was another thing too, guys. And then we'll move on.

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Speaker 4: In the initial like uh, I guess marketing materials for

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Speaker 4: Fire Festival one, it was like it was like a

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Speaker 4: club med vacation video. It was like you know, you know,

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Speaker 4: like Sandals Caribbean resort with and it was like and

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Speaker 4: the island is inhabited by these lovely pigs that like

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Speaker 4: swim and we'll play with you on the beaches. And

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Speaker 4: then like the reality of it was that pigs are

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Speaker 4: gross and aggressive like that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 6: I love that they use that as a selling point.

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Speaker 6: It's it's just great.

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Speaker 4: It's just what's the word, oh, Hubris, that's the word,

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Speaker 4: and it's just on display, you know, for all to

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Speaker 4: see and you can't. You can't look away from someone

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Speaker 4: that's got that level of hubris. I do wish him

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Speaker 4: the best, though, I hope that it works out. I'm not,

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Speaker 4: you know, in any way wishing ill upon Billy McFarlane

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Speaker 4: or jaw Rule for that matter, who seems to have

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Speaker 4: steered clear at least based on what we know now.

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Speaker 5: Uh, speaking of hubers, just really quickly before we jump,

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Speaker 5: do you guys, do you guys hear about Elon and

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Speaker 5: Putin and.

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Speaker 3: What is going on there?

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Speaker 6: Just hang out?

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Speaker 3: Just went public us. As we came in to record

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Speaker 3: this evening, Elon contacted the Pentagon to disc clues that

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Speaker 3: he had had one to one conversation with Vladimir Putin?

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Speaker 2: Do you think it was like.

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Speaker 5: Anyway, I just want to I want to talk about

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Speaker 5: that more later. It's just weird.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe they were sending Warrio memes.

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Speaker 4: Who knows Putin's a sick memer? Everybody knows that about one?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, have.

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Speaker 6: You seen that that one where he's got his shirt off?

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Speaker 3: He made all of those my hand that was did

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Speaker 3: you see the uh do you see the recent scuttle

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Speaker 3: but of there's a lot in Russia. We'll get to

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Speaker 3: it right after the break in fact, but uh, there's

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Speaker 3: a there's a new thing that low key went viral.

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Speaker 3: It's long been suspected that Putin has body doubles. Check

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Speaker 3: out our previous episode on body doubles. Uh, there's a

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Speaker 3: video clip now where in it's like reading tea leaves

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Speaker 3: or rorshak stuff, But there's a video clip of someone

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Speaker 3: who appears to be Vladimir Putin looking like they forgot

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Speaker 3: where their whitch wrist their watches suppose to be on,

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Speaker 3: and the Putin wears his wristwatch on the right wrist.

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Speaker 3: But this person, who is definitely Putin, by the way,

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Speaker 3: appears to like look at their left wrist and be

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Speaker 3: very confused and then have like an oh moment. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's that's who I am. I'm the strong man of Russia. Anyway,

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Speaker 3: very interesting. This is the kind of speculation that thrives

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Speaker 3: in the absence of transparency. And you know, who knows,

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Speaker 3: maybe humanity can turn things around. Maybe one day we'll

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Speaker 3: all be at Firefest having a big old time.

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Speaker 6: Hope.

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Speaker 4: So we'll take a quick break now and hear a

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Speaker 4: word from our sponsors, and then we'll be back with

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Speaker 4: more strange.

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Speaker 3: News, and we have returned with what is breaking news.

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Speaker 3: We alluded to this at the top of the show.

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Speaker 3: We have spent some time since the conflict in Ukraine,

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Speaker 3: which really began way earlier, right with the taking of Crimea.

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Speaker 3: We have talked extensively about what is going on in

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Speaker 3: that part of the world. In particular, we talked a

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Speaker 3: lot about an outfit called the Wagner Group, and I

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Speaker 3: think when we originally did an episode about the Wagner Group,

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Speaker 3: it was probably there's probably new information to a lot

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Speaker 3: of our fellow conspiracy realists in the West, because it's

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Speaker 3: not a thing that's going to pop up until there's

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Speaker 3: a big international problem. Right, So you have probably heard

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Speaker 3: you have Gety Progosian, the leader of Wagner, in the

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Speaker 3: news for attempting what appeared to be a coup on

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Speaker 3: the power structure of Russia, and we talked about this

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Speaker 3: in depth. There are still many unanswered questions, not just

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Speaker 3: for a schmucks in the West, but for the people

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Speaker 3: of Russia who are increasingly wondering what the heck is

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Speaker 3: going on. Who's at the wheel today. Just before we

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Speaker 3: came into record, we received the news that Pregosian may

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Speaker 3: have died in what is being described as a plane

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Speaker 3: crash a bit north of Moscow. Now this is happening

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Speaker 3: as we record. It appears this private aircraft with ten

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Speaker 3: humans on it was shot down by Russian Air Force.

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Speaker 3: This is I mean, it's not a super big plane

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Speaker 3: if you look at it, if you're an aviation nerd

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Speaker 3: like we are, this it's a small craft. And it

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Speaker 3: is confirmed that Pregosion was on the passenger list. The

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Speaker 3: headline what do you guys think the day the music died? So?

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Speaker 6: Uh sorry, that's perfect.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, ri Ip big bopper,

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Speaker 4: I hope.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Well, my my first question is, okay, we've got Pregosion

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Speaker 5: on the passenger list of this particular plane that was

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Speaker 5: shut down. Correct, correct, Okay, well it was and it

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Speaker 5: was shot down. It was, it didn't crash like it.

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Speaker 3: So if you yeah, if you look at and again

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Speaker 3: we are not experts on shooting down planes, thankfully, but

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Speaker 3: if you look at the various snatches of video footage

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Speaker 3: that have been put up there, if you look at

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Speaker 3: Telegram is going nuts for this Twitter slash x as well,

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Speaker 3: it very much looks like it was shot down out

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Speaker 3: of the air. The plane is is or was Pregosians

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Speaker 3: business jet and it went down near a region called

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Speaker 3: Tivie Tavere tv R. And if you go to there's

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Speaker 3: a great site my pal Joe sent me Joe as

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Speaker 3: a navy veteran, called Real News Noble and they have

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Speaker 3: done a pretty good job of platforming a lot of

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Speaker 3: this stuff. It looks like the official government of Russia,

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Speaker 3: through various outfits, is confirming that all ten people, seven

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Speaker 3: passengers and three crew died as a result of the crash.

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Speaker 3: They did appear to lose their lives. Also, the second

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Speaker 3: in command of Wagner was on the plane, or at

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Speaker 3: least on the passenger list.

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Speaker 4: So what's the implication here, like shot down by whom?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're talking about Yeah, oh gosh, who could it be?

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Speaker 3: Imagine imagine Vladimir Putin like that hot dog sketch and

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Speaker 3: I think you should leave.

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Speaker 5: He's like, wasn't he wasn't Putin occupied or something when

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Speaker 5: the news was coming out, Like he couldn't be reached

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Speaker 5: for comment even initially.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that is correct. Also, there there's no clear proof

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Speaker 3: at this point regarding who ordered that anti air strike.

394
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Speaker 3: The scuttle butt we've heard, and it's all rumors for now.

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Speaker 3: The scuttle butt we've heard so far seems to fall

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Speaker 3: into three buckets, and we'll give them to you an

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00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:53,920
Speaker 3: order from plausible to least plausible. The most plausible answer

398
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Speaker 3: is almost always going to be a simple answer. So

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Speaker 3: the simple idea is that Vladimir Putin, a very very clever,

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Speaker 3: brutal individual, waited until things seemed like they were going

401
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Speaker 3: to be cool and then you know what I mean.

402
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Speaker 4: Because when we were talking with Jake Hanrahan, we asked

403
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Speaker 4: him about the whole thing with the weird you know,

404
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Speaker 4: marching and all that good sture. He you know, he

405
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 4: didn't really want to go super into it, but the

406
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Speaker 4: one thing he did kind of let on was that

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Speaker 4: he thought it was like maybe a bit of theater

408
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Speaker 4: where it was like Putin and this guy kind of

409
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Speaker 4: colluding in some way.

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Speaker 6: If I'm unless I miss miss You're right.

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Speaker 3: I talked with Jake just a little bit about this

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Speaker 3: earlier today. What he said is, you can't rule that out.

413
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 3: You can't rule out that possibility because again, in so

414
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 3: much of the internal affairs, it's a black box. The

415
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Speaker 3: second theory going right now is that, uh, the plane

416
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Speaker 3: was shot down, but maybe not on Putin's direct order,

417
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Speaker 3: may be on the order of the Russian Minister of Defense,

418
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Speaker 3: who is one of the guys that Pregosian and Wagner

419
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Speaker 3: were very beefed up with, because Wagner, if we recall,

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Speaker 3: was often complaining that they were being they were given

421
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Speaker 3: the short shrift by the proper Russian military, and so

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Speaker 3: this may have been retaliation from an inside enemy, so

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Speaker 3: political inviting domestic instability. That's the second idea. The third idea,

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Speaker 3: I'm so excited to talk with you as about this one.

425
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 3: The third idea, the least plausible, is that there is

426
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 3: some forty chess going on to that point about political

427
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 3: theater and the idea that Progosion may have faked his

428
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Speaker 3: own death, may have committed pseudo side. It's a cool story.

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Speaker 3: As we know, it is extraordinarily complicated to successfully fake

430
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 3: your death in the modern day, even if powerful forces

431
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 3: aren't looking for you. What do you guys think about

432
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Speaker 3: those theories? Think this guy faked his own death?

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Speaker 4: I guess that would presuppose that Putin was really, really,

434
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Speaker 4: really really seriously after him, right, or maybe I don't know,

435
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Speaker 4: it is always to what end that's such a big swing,

436
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 4: you know, to attempt it, let alone pull it off.

437
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 5: Well, okay, we have to assume that Progosion was aware

438
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 5: that his life was in danger and he I mean, honestly,

439
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 5: if you look at the words of most of the

440
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 5: military analysts who were talking about this openly, they're all

441
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 5: saying Progoshan's life expectancy was like a month, just three

442
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 5: months maybe something like that, and this is two months.

443
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 5: So actually it's you know, right within the window. He

444
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 5: lived a pretty good time after that whole coup attempt thing.

445
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:55,239
Speaker 5: If Progosion is as wealthy as he was or is

446
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 5: and has all these resources, you know, your life's in danger.

447
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:05,919
Speaker 5: Suiticide is actually a pretty good idea. And he had

448
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 5: been talking a lot about wanting to operate in Africa

449
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 5: a lot more like or operate Wagner in Africa a

450
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 5: lot more. There's a potential that he got out of

451
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 5: there or I don't know, maybe this was his attempt

452
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:20,880
Speaker 5: to get out of there and it failed.

453
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:26,719
Speaker 3: Maybe he heard the news about Fire Festival returning and said, okay,

454
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 3: I got to get it together, you know, buy the tickets,

455
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 3: crash the plane. But here's the thing. Those people really

456
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 3: did die. The people aboard the plane are dead, and

457
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 3: that would mean logically that if this guy, in his calculus,

458
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 3: if he somehow decided it would be worthwhile to fake

459
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 3: his death, then that means that he sacrificed ten people

460
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 3: for that grift, which is soulless to do.

461
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 5: What have those bodies been identified or just the passenger

462
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,959
Speaker 5: list used to identify the bodies that were recovered, right,

463
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 5: I mean, because those are very different things.

464
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're relying on the manifest at this time. It's

465
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 3: a great question, Matt. At this time that we are recording,

466
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 3: forensic data has not been released, which makes sense because

467
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 3: it's that stuff does take time if you're doing it right. However,

468
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 3: by the time this strange news publishes, it is entirely

469
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 3: possible that there will be more details on the seven

470
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:40,360
Speaker 3: passengers and the three crew, But we don't know. And

471
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 3: the problem is with the news coming out from Russian

472
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 3: sources in general, even boots on the ground on telegram

473
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 3: and so on, the problem is that there is always

474
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 3: going to be an immense inherent distrust, right, a questioning

475
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 3: of the motives. So to Jake's earlier point in sad oligarch.

476
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,199
Speaker 3: It's really tough to confirm these things. Remember Jake was

477
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 3: telling us about him and how he and his partner

478
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 3: on the show had to go to Russian sources and

479
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 3: then had to parse through on a granular level, not

480
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 3: just the language used, but also the that's a good

481
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 3: way to say it, the possible motivations of that of

482
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 3: the people propagating that information. So right now, let me

483
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 3: be really honest. Everything we've learned about Pregosi does indicate

484
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 3: the world would be a more stable place without this

485
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 3: individual in this position of power. He might remind you know,

486
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 3: there are nationalistic forces in Russia that see him as

487
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 3: a hero, right, that see him as fighting against a

488
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 3: corrupt power structure. But we also have to remember this

489
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 3: guy is pretty close to Judge Holden in Cormack McCarthy's

490
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 3: Blood Meridian. He is sort of war personified as an individual,

491
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 3: and as such, you know, as such, there are some there,

492
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 3: there are some organisms that simply have to be put

493
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,719
Speaker 3: down for the greater good. And I am completely aware

494
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 3: of how dangerous and slippery of a slope that statement is.

495
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 3: But a dog I can't put it any other way, man,

496
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 3: I mean, what do you guys think, what do you like?

497
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 3: Is this a guy ideologically who would quit his bloody

498
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 3: profession and go open a record store, go open like

499
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 3: a hipster doughnut shop. I think not, you know, I

500
00:29:54,480 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 3: think this guy is all gased, no breaks. But if

501
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 3: he did indeed die in that plane crash, other innocent

502
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 3: people died as a result, there's not really a good

503
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 3: guy in this story. I don't know, man.

504
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 6: I feel like.

505
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 3: Next week no, I feel like in three weeks, or

506
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 3: maybe even as much as two months, no one will care.

507
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 5: I give it one to three months, one to three

508
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 5: months at the window.

509
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 6: I give it a fortnight's time.

510
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 2: Ben, what were the what was the thing about a

511
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 2: second plane?

512
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 3: Okay?

513
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 6: No, a second ye disarray?

514
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 3: All right? So I went on Twitter talking to our

515
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 3: fellow conspiracy realist and let me just read some great responses.

516
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 3: So I was trying to be very objective, open ended

517
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 3: and fair. I said, the Wagner's speculation is nuts today.

518
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 3: Does any want to have a theory on progosion or

519
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 3: pal Mike said, I'm going with a small pointy thing

520
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 3: doing about mock three. Multiple people said, yeah, he was

521
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 3: taken out. Putin killed him obviously, and then I started

522
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 3: to dig a little bit more and got some got

523
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 3: some crazy news. A shout out to war Monitor. They

524
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 3: show that Progosion had apparently a second aircraft that, as

525
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 3: of about an hour ago, as we record here in

526
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 3: the US, was maneuvering over Moscow and safely landed. Okay,

527
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 3: but we may return to this again. We want to

528
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 3: be very fair and objective and acknowledged that more information

529
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 3: will probably come out. Very few people know the truth

530
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 3: at this point, and hopefully it will not always be

531
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 3: stuff they don't want you to know. If you are

532
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 3: looking for a little bit of light in the darkness there,

533
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 3: then we can confirm that Russian authorities have quote opened

534
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 3: a criminal case on the violations of the rules of

535
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 3: traffic safety.

536
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 2: Cool regarding the plane crush.

537
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 3: You know, you gotta have rules, right, So they're like, hey,

538
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 3: we're gonna we're gonna look into this. We hear you,

539
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 3: and and speaking of flight, you know, we never want

540
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 3: to leave you on a really down note, folks. We'd

541
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 3: love to hear thoughts on this, of course. One A

542
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 3: through three std WYTK Conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. But

543
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 3: before we end, we have one more sort of thematic

544
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 3: narrative to explore. It's quite exciting. Since we're already in

545
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 3: the sky, let's go a little further up. We'll be

546
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 3: back after a break.

547
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 2: We're back, guys.

548
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 5: History this week has channeled Charles Dickens. It's we're siphoning

549
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 5: the sentiment of eighteen fifty nine because because history is

550
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 5: literally doing this, I'm just going to read it. It

551
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:17,959
Speaker 5: was the best of times, it was the worst of times.

552
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 5: It was the age of wisdom and also a foolishness,

553
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 5: belief in incredulity, light and darkness, hope and despare heaven

554
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 5: and hell. In short, the period was so far like

555
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 5: the present period that some of its noisiest authorities insisted

556
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 5: on being received for good or for evil in the

557
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 5: superlative degree of comparison only now. The reason why I'm

558
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 5: saying that is because we're talking cold war stuff. Because

559
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 5: cold war stuff is happening. Guess what's the most cold

560
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 5: war thing you can do?

561
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 2: Shoot something to the moon.

562
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, well, well.

563
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 3: Poor people, you know what I mean. Let's go to

564
00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 3: the moon.

565
00:33:58,320 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: Bro.

566
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, either either explode the biggest bomb that has ever exploded,

567
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 5: or just you know, successfully get something to the moon.

568
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 2: Those are your two options.

569
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 4: Russia had the opportunity to do the most hilarious thing

570
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 4: and they did it. An you talking about this's just

571
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 4: a thing people were saying about dumb social media things.

572
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 5: Well, one day we will combine those two objectives, right,

573
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 5: launch the biggest nuke ever created at the Moon. We'll

574
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,399
Speaker 5: see what happens. I think there's been some pretty good

575
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 5: sketches about that show. Yeah, exactly, okayings.

576
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 3: Let's blow up Earth things, shout.

577
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 2: Out to.

578
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 5: Love it, love it all right, so let's get to

579
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 5: the actual news. Two pretty awesome things regarding the Moon

580
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 5: occurred this week while we're recording.

581
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 2: Uh, I think it was gosh. I want to say.

582
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 5: On Monday, when one moon mission was supposed to conclude

583
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 5: with a lander on the Moon, and then today, on Wednesday,

584
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 5: August twenty third, a second Moon mission was supposed to

585
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 5: successfully land on the Moon. The one that was supposed

586
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 5: to occur today on Wednesday, August twenty third was the success.

587
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 5: India successfully landed the first spacecraft ever on the south

588
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 5: pole of the Moon. This is freaking cool. It's awesome.

589
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 2: One of the main reasons why.

590
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 5: It's so cool, First of all, it's India, It's one

591
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 5: of the non official Cold War countries using their space

592
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 5: program along with in connection with other space programs from

593
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 5: other countries and assistants, but India making it happen. And

594
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 5: not only did they like get a thing on the Moon,

595
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 5: they've got a rover on that sucker that's going to

596
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 5: go look for water on the Moon, like actual, not

597
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,720
Speaker 5: reservoirs of water, but enough water that could be used

598
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 5: by future astronauts that go to the Moon. Right, super awesome.

599
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 5: And I don't know, it's just it's an historic thing.

600
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 5: It's it's a happy thing for humanity. The weird thing is, guys.

601
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 5: And the reason why I'm bringing up the Cold War

602
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 5: is because I've been reading a lot of foreign policy lately,

603
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 5: a lot of other you know, things that are paywalled

604
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 5: online about geopolitics. And it's interesting how at least those

605
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 5: people who write within those outlets at least want India

606
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,399
Speaker 5: to be a part of the West. That's what I'm noticing, right,

607
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 5: There have been there have been a lot of pushes for,

608
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 5: I guess, to position India as more associated with the

609
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 5: United States and you know, quote the West. It's just

610
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 5: I don't know enough about that. That's why I'm going

611
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,439
Speaker 5: to ask you, guys, what have you seen about positioning

612
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 5: India to be viewed as a part of the Western powers.

613
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 3: Well, first off, it is the world's largest democracy, that

614
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 3: part that that's tight to the fans of democracy, even

615
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 3: though it is imperfect. Secondly, like in our previous episode

616
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,240
Speaker 3: on the line of actual control, that very crazy border

617
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 3: that it's just going to get weirder between India and China.

618
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 3: It's part of the allying with India is often seen

619
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 3: as a piece of a larger containment policy. Right, the

620
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 3: two most populous countries in the world are right next door, right,

621
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 3: And if it weren't for geography, they would be they'd

622
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 3: be the same country right now, you know what I mean.

623
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 3: And they both have they both have expansionist aimes. They

624
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:56,359
Speaker 3: both have some serious region specific problems with their neighbors. Right,

625
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:02,320
Speaker 3: shout out Pakistan, shout out the shout out the semiconductor

626
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 3: episode we did earlier. But with that, you know, especially

627
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 3: in Europe and the West, there is a huge Indian diaspora,

628
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 3: you know, so they I'm just laying out like the

629
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 3: laundry list reasons it would make sense for the West

630
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 3: to want to be when at least appeared to be

631
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 3: buddy buddy for a while.

632
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 5: Yes, you know, those are great points. Ben, What I

633
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 5: am noticing I'm looking at my other camera. Sorry, guys,

634
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:33,919
Speaker 5: I'm on my new computer for the first time.

635
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:38,800
Speaker 2: Yams all right.

636
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 5: But Ben, Yes, what I was reading in Foreign Policy,

637
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 5: it's writing from see Raja Mohan. They're discussing global influence

638
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 5: on developing nations and how most of that influence right

639
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 5: now is coming from China and Russia, and how the

640
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 5: West is interested in seeing India's influence on other developing

641
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 5: nations throughout the world. Right, So I think that's why

642
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 5: it's That's why it was really interesting to me. That's

643
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 5: why I thought about the Tale of Two Cities, you know,

644
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 5: in that little intro to this segment. Because within the

645
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 5: span of gosh, i don't know, a couple dozen hours,

646
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 5: India's spacecraft was successful. But then Russia's Luna twenty five,

647
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 5: which was another Moon mission that was attempting to get

648
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 5: to the Moon and land to make it happen the

649
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 5: first moon mission in forty seven years for Russia. It

650
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 5: was going to be a basically a big comeback moment

651
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:42,280
Speaker 5: for them and their Luna twenty five mission was unsuccessful.

652
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 5: The craft, I guess, at some point lost contact with

653
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 5: mission control and it it basically spiraled out of control

654
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:55,280
Speaker 5: and smashed into the Moon. I'll give you the quote

655
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 5: from ros Cosmos, who actually made the mission occur. Quote,

656
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 5: the app moved into an unpredictable orbit and ceased to

657
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,800
Speaker 5: exist as a result of a collision with the surface

658
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 5: of the Moon. It's just a great way to say

659
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 5: the thing like it was not good, but it ceased

660
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 5: to exist.

661
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 6: God, such a good phrase.

662
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 5: But I mean, and again that's really that's honestly, really

663
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:21,879
Speaker 5: sad for science. It doesn't matter how you feel about

664
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 5: whatever geopolitical stuff.

665
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 2: It stinks.

666
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 5: I wish you know their Moon mission would have been successful.

667
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 5: They were also targeting uh kind of not the same,

668
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 5: but a very similar region of the Moon that India

669
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 5: was targeting. And again it's it's at least on the surface.

670
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 5: It's missions to push forward the abilities for other astronauts cosmonauts,

671
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 5: doesn't matter where they're from, to go to the Moon

672
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,800
Speaker 5: to perform science, to hopefully use it for the betterment

673
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 5: of humanity. The problem is gosh, and the reason why

674
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 5: it's a Cold war thing, it's because you can move

675
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,240
Speaker 5: you can use the moon for other stuff. It doesn't

676
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 5: matter what you know, treaties you've signed historically.

677
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,879
Speaker 4: But also, like the moon doesn't belong to any nation, right,

678
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 4: isn't that a thing?

679
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:08,839
Speaker 6: Is it agreed upon?

680
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:10,320
Speaker 3: Is that codified?

681
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 6: I think I think it is right.

682
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:17,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And everybody will continue pretending that's the case

683
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:22,879
Speaker 3: until the until the rover hits hits the lunar road.

684
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 3: I mean, that's really interesting that we're talking about roscosmos

685
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 3: in particular the chief of this outfit, Uri Bodosov. And

686
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 3: again I love the point for making there, Matt. Scientists

687
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 3: are scientists right their nation of their own and they

688
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 3: are doing stuff that's often unappreciated. Failure is part of

689
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,839
Speaker 3: good science. I would argue it's one of the most

690
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 3: important pieces. So this, uh, this official Uri Bodosov said

691
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 3: something that was really interesting. First these says the usual stuff.

692
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 3: We have to go to the moon, we got to

693
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 3: do science, we as a civilization should try. But he

694
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 3: speaks a little bit to the earlier point you're making

695
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 3: that the moon is a multi use thing. Right. It's

696
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 3: a launching point potentially for other missions into the Solar System.

697
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 3: It is also per our pal uri of a practical

698
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 3: value because, of course, the race for the development of

699
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 3: the natural resources of the Moon has begun, and in

700
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 3: the future the Moon will become a platform for deep

701
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 3: space exploration and ideal platform.

702
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 5: Yep, an ideal platform for a lot of stuff. And

703
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 5: it's got a lot of helium whoo, let's go, and

704
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 5: other things, other things, right, It's got all kinds of

705
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 5: stuff that that corporations want to mine, just like the

706
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:53,800
Speaker 5: you know, the asteroids.

707
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 2: And stuff going by and all that good stuff.

708
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 5: But guys, you have to be careful what you're reading

709
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:03,240
Speaker 5: about this stuff. Depending on the news source, it's feeling

710
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 5: like propaganda. If you're in the West reading about India

711
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 5: and Russia's moon programs and these launches, you're gonna get

712
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 5: very different stuff in the way verbs are used, the

713
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 5: way it's positioned as like Russia's massive failure at all

714
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 5: and Russia will never get back to the old Soviet ways.

715
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 5: And then to you know, oh my god, India did

716
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 5: the best thing ever. It's amazing and we're so excited

717
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 5: for it. And it's just I'm sure if you're not

718
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 5: in the West, you're getting other slightly different reporting and

719
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 5: it's just and it's just the phrasing, right, It's it's

720
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 5: all about positioning, and in my mind at least, and

721
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,280
Speaker 5: I think in our minds, it's just kind of stinks

722
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 5: that one of them was unsuccessful.

723
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:48,720
Speaker 3: Mm hmm, yeah, man. I mean people worked really hard

724
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 3: on this and too. I think it was on this

725
00:43:53,680 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 3: show that we collectively learned and got our heads around

726
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 3: just the impossible labyrinthine math required to just get something

727
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 3: out to the moon. The moon is far away.

728
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:20,359
Speaker 4: It's right there for a man in it, reach into

729
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 4: the sky and pick it right out, now, I know.

730
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 5: And according to some out of context buzz Aldrin quotes,

731
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:27,760
Speaker 5: we never went there, man.

732
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 6: Buzz go home. Quit talking out of school, man.

733
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, in space, no one can hear you vibe anyway,

734
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,879
Speaker 3: Like that makes no sense. It just sounds cool. It's

735
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 3: like at the end or beginning of whatever mixtape we do.

736
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 3: But what I think is key here to remember is

737
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 3: that it's going to continue. Right. The most powerful forces

738
00:44:53,200 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 3: in human civilization currently consider long term lunar pre presence

739
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 3: a certitude, which means they are going to pour more

740
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,399
Speaker 3: and more money into it, right, and there is a

741
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 3: certain level of attrition expected. There will be failures. The

742
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 3: math is just crazy. There's so many variables that you

743
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:19,879
Speaker 3: cannot control for. It's amazing human's got to the Moon

744
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 3: at all. It's amazing that we even have our cool

745
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,320
Speaker 3: little toys on Mars. That's nuts. There's a robot that

746
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 3: sings itself Happy Birthday on an empty planet.

747
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 6: That's kind of sad you think about it.

748
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 4: I know, he's got a little party hat on and

749
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 4: like a like a little cupcake alone.

750
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 3: But it's also it's kind of beautiful too, you know.

751
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 3: It's like, look at us, what a time we're having here.

752
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 3: And I don't know, Matt, like, no, what do you

753
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 3: guys think about the idea of lunar exploration? Do you

754
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,720
Speaker 3: think it's a good use of human resources and time.

755
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:05,320
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be honest, I do think it is, although

756
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 3: I have some like ethical dilemmas. You know, there are

757
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:09,800
Speaker 3: people starving.

758
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I think there's plenty of money and effort

759
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 5: to both have people not starving and go to the moon.

760
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 5: We just we like our flying machines with death weapons

761
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 5: a lot more than you know, people not starving.

762
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 6: On the moon.

763
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 3: Right, NASA's building flying cars. Shout out to Mitchell and weblook.

764
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 3: Do you guys remember the doctor death sketch?

765
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, I don't think I do.

766
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 3: I'mould have said it to you after this, you'll love it. Man,

767
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 3: it's great.

768
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 5: But when he gets to do lunar explorations and this

769
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 5: kind of thing, it's still crazy to me if you

770
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 5: look at the timeline of when missions actually went to

771
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:59,799
Speaker 5: the Moon to when there is a black hole of

772
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 5: any Moon missions any from the mid nineteen seventies to

773
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 5: I think it was like the next Moon mission, at

774
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 5: least by the United States, wasn't until the late nineties.

775
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 3: And this is the first Russian lunar mission right in

776
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:20,320
Speaker 3: at what'd you say, forty seven years nearly half a century.

777
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,360
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, oh, I don't have the number in

778
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 5: my head. I think it was nineteen seventy eight six

779
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 5: maybe something like that. But yeah, we just stopped completely.

780
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 5: And then the next missions were all planned crashes. You guys,

781
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 5: the next missions, like when you're looking at anything that

782
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 5: occurred in the nineties upwards of you know, twenty ten, like,

783
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 5: that's crazy. They're all planned crashes on the Moon.

784
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 6: Why I was saying, why, yeah, why?

785
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 3: Why?

786
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 6: I don't get it.

787
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 2: I don't know dude, it's.

788
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 3: Just also as enormously cartoonishly difficult as it is to

789
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 3: get something to the Moon, it's even more complicated to

790
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 3: get it back. So you're probably actually saving money if

791
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 3: you come a CASI.

792
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 2: It, I guess.

793
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 5: But in the case of the Chandrayan maybe a Yan

794
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 5: chandra Yan three the India India's current Moon mission, the

795
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 5: one that they're on right now, like they're sending a

796
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 5: roveroute to actually get science and send back information. If

797
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 5: you just crash something into the Moon, you can be like, yeah,

798
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 5: we got there, and we can maybe check out the

799
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 5: debris that was raised up when our ridiculously expensive machine

800
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 5: plummeted to the surface.

801
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's just better ways to go about that.

802
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 6: I would just argue, maybe not, though I don't know.

803
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 5: I don't know if there's no answers, I don't have

804
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 5: any answers. We've covered the moon landings before, the conspiratorial

805
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 5: hearts of those things, and it's I would say, guys,

806
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 5: it's very personally difficult for me to believe that we

807
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 5: didn't go to the Moon, because I want to believe

808
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,320
Speaker 5: we did, because I don't want to believe that we've

809
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 5: just been lied to, and there was that big of

810
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 5: a charade this whole time.

811
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 4: You're gonna have to recontextualize your whole Space Camp experience.

812
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 3: That's the case, you know.

813
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 2: But there's so it's just weird.

814
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 5: Man, it's just too weird for me right now.

815
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:28,839
Speaker 2: I don't know.

816
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 5: Tell us what you think about the moon and all

817
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:33,399
Speaker 5: the other things that we've covered today.

818
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 6: That's right.

819
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,919
Speaker 4: You can do so by reaching out to us through

820
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 4: the vast space that is the Internet. We exist at

821
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 4: the handles conspiracy stuff on the social media platform formerly

822
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 4: known as Twitter, on YouTube, and on Facebook. Conspiracy Stuff

823
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 4: Show is what you'll find us as on TikTok and Instagram.

824
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 3: And if that's all old beings to you. If you

825
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:01,720
Speaker 3: don't sit the social needs number five, as we alluded

826
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,720
Speaker 3: to earlier, you can contact us on a telephonic device

827
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 3: of your choice. All you have to do is dial

828
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 3: in the number. Play along at home with us what

829
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:14,919
Speaker 3: eight three three STDWYTK. You will hear a hopefully familiar voice.

830
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,160
Speaker 3: You'll hear a beep like so beep. We all know

831
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 3: how voicemails work. That beep means you're off to the races.

832
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 3: You got three minutes. Those three minutes belong to you.

833
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 3: Go nuts. Give yourself a cool moniker, a cool nickname.

834
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:30,960
Speaker 3: We cannot emphasize that enough. You'll hear cool nicknames in

835
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 3: our upcoming listener mail. And perhaps one of the most

836
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,840
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837
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,439
Speaker 3: permission to use your name and or message on air.

838
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:44,080
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839
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 3: If you have photos you want to send us, if

840
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 3: you have links, if you have ancillary information or resources,

841
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,439
Speaker 3: take us to the edge of the rabbit hole. We'll

842
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 3: do the rest. We read every single email we get.

843
00:50:55,360 --> 00:51:18,440
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844
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:21,200
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845
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:25,680
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846
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