WEBVTT - Cannes Lions Preview with MediaLink's Michael Kassan 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:09.799 Welcome to another episode of the Variety podcast Strictly Business, 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:11.879 in which we talk with some of the brightest minds 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:15.360 working in the media today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein, co editor 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:19.120 in chief of Variety. The annual can Line event returns 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:21.880 this month, which means the media and marketing worlds are 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:24.760 about to converge in the South of France. And whenever 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:27.920 these industries come together, you could bet our next guest 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:33.320 is at the center of the room. Michael Casson is 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:36.519 the CEO of Media Link Company, dedicated to connecting the 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:40.280 major players in the space for dealmaking and more. Thanks 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:42.519 for coming in. This is why it's always great to 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:45.320 connect with you, because you've seen it, over seen it 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:49.040 all over decades in this business. But I'm curious, as 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:51.159 you head into can what do you think is going 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:54.320 to be sort of foremost on the minds of marketers 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:57.520 and media industry people. So, Andrew, it's great to join 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:03.560 you today. UM. The only thing I'd say to edit 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:07.720 a bit of that lovely introduction. Thank you. Um. We 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:09.839 look at it as marketing and media, but we also 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:11.640 look at it as a broader base. We look at 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:17.560 it as the intersection of marketing, media, advertising, entertainment and technology, 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:21.160 and that's sort of the want of Media Link as 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:23.560 a company. We we like to believe that we were 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:28.480 fortunate enough to find that intersection. The Can Lions is 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:31.800 really a manifestation of that. It's it's life imitating art. 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:37.040 It's the personification, if you will. It brings together marketing, media, advertising, 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:40.880 entertainment and technology. And over the last few years there's 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:44.240 been an addition. We see the investor community, We see 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:47.319 the private equity players showing up there as well, in 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:51.000 in larger numbers these days, because as they're looking at investments, 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:54.160 they figure you might as well be where the action is. 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:57.600 As I think, you know, because we've chatted about this before. 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:01.600 I'm a Hamilton's officionado. So we like to think of 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:04.600 can as the room where it happens. Uh you know, 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:07.160 the five blocks, if you will, on the clasette where 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:11.800 it happens. But all those players are converging. I think, 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:17.480 um this year, as usual, the center of the Can 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:21.840 Lions festivals around creativity. That's the thread White people go there. 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:24.320 And I think it's worthwhile to give a little bit 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:26.440 of history of how they Can Lions started. That's what 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:30.000 it was originally. It was a festival to celebrate creativity, 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:32.639 and so you have all the creative agencies there, the 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:35.480 stock names that you know mcann, Ericson and B B 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:41.680 d O and d dB and etcetera. Ogilvie m. About 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:44.120 twenty years ago, I happened to be in the South 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:47.040 of France on holiday. And it's a great story. It's 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:48.720 kind of a Wizard of Ozmo. When I was sitting 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:51.280 at the pool and I saw a bunch of people 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:53.560 from the advertising industry, from the creative side. And I 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:56.160 was running a large media agency back then, and I said, 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:59.680 in my Dorothy and the Wizard of oz mooment, I said, 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:01.680 and you were there, and you were there, and you 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:03.560 were there, like why are all these people here in 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:06.560 South France? And they said to me, well, it's the 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:09.639 can Lions and and you know, to put it in context, 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:11.880 I was running the largest media agency in the world 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:14.040 at the time and I said, oh, I've heard about that. 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.480 Because the media side was not included. It was strictly 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:20.200 the creatives. And I said to my wife that day, 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:21.760 I said, you know, honey, I'm gonna take a ride 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:23.400 into can We went on tea, but I said I'm 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:26.440 gonna take a ride into Can to see what this 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:30.200 is about. And I walked around and I thought, what 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:32.920 the hell the media people should be here, and so 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:35.560 you know, I think I was mission. I made that 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:37.760 my mission, bring the media people, because we pay for 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:39.839 all this stuff. You know, the media buying was where 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:42.560 the money was. The creative was where Don Draper hung 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:45.240 out and had three martinis for lunch. In Can it 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:49.360 would be three roses, but um and so traditionally again 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:53.240 it was creative. Then the media folks came, Then the 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:55.480 clients came. And it was Procter and Gamble that was 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:57.720 the first client to actually say, wait a minute, if 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:00.200 our agencies are going there to see, create of and 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:04.240 share creative, we should be there. And like in most things, 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:07.600 once Procter and Gamble did it and through the gauntlet 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:11.120 down and un lever, it was obvious that the clients 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:14.040 would all start coming. And then the digital media companies 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:16.800 started coming, and it was Microsoft and Yahoo and Facebook 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:19.920 and Google and you know, et cetera, and then everybody 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:23.880 started coming. So that's the progression and the continuum of Can. 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:26.160 How it's played out, it's almost seems to me like 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:29.640 it's kind of CS is the beginning of the year 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.120 bringing together all these entities you've described, and then this 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.880 is sort of the midpoint of the years bringing it again. 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:37.279 And it's a forcing function. You know, so often you 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:39.200 hear people say, well, do I really need to go 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:40.919 to CAN or do I really need to go to 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:43.000 c S. After all, I can see all those same 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:46.800 people in New York, Chicago, San Francisco, l A. Sure 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:49.799 you can see them, but you know, CAN or cees 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:54.760 those acts forcing functions. You're there and we've also seen 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:56.560 and this was one of the things that media Link 0:04:56.640 --> 0:05:01.720 identified early. It's efficient when when you have in CAN 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:06.320 five days seven days released Sunday to Saturday. Um, I'm 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.239 not good at math. I think that's seven days, but um, 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:12.920 you know you have a week where the entire convergence 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:15.760 of all those industries come together and the senior players 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:18.800 are there. There's efficiency in that you can see everybody 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:20.920 within a span of you know, a couple of days, 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:24.200 within a couple of blocks. And similarly at CS and 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:26.760 so for us it was efficiency on the one hand 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:30.719 and the other hand, opportunistically, when you get all those 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:34.400 people together, you can make stuff happen. I would imagine 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:37.120 and I would imagine there's a lot to make happen 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:39.680 at a time in the media business where I mean, 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:43.200 let's not you know, overdo the cliche media business is 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:46.000 always in a state of flux. But right now, my god, 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:49.320 I mean it's disruption intensity level like perhaps it's never 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:51.920 been seen well using flux and trying to keep it clean. 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:55.119 I'd say, that's got a flux. It's got a flexcapacitator. 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:58.120 Wasn't that the back to the future, you know, Christopher 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:01.000 Lloyd de flux capacitator. I want to see if I 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:04.000 can say that fast five times. I'm not going to 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:05.600 try because I don't know where I'll end up, but 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:09.880 we'll have to edit it. But yes, and I think 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:12.240 we're at a point in time in in in those 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:16.120 convergent industries, the greatest amount of chaos I've ever seen 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:20.120 in my career is happening now. And it's saying something 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:22.520 because you have been around for decades and you've been 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:25.240 through some tough period absolutely, and I think this is 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:28.080 the highest degree of chaos I've ever seen. And and 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:31.440 you know, sort of a cluster of everybody trying to 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:34.919 figure out who's on first, and and and what the 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:38.360 what the priorities are. Last year, what we talked about 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:43.039 and the year before was everything that revolved around words 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:47.719 that begin with the letter T. Transparency. The issue around 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:51.320 transparency and advertising has been a big issue, the issue 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:54.920 around trust. There was a breakdown and trust between agency 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:58.400 and client and publisher. So you have another word that 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:02.200 begins with T, techno oology and obviously the you know 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:07.520 the importance of technology and rapid pace of change, and 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:12.360 talent because so many industries there's abundance of talent and 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:15.040 so many industries there's a dearth of talent. So at 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:17.680 that intersection that you know, if you look at it 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:22.800 as transparency, trust, technology, and talent, you see where I'm going. 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:26.840 The coincidence of all those words beginning with T. I'd 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:30.800 say this year there's some other words. Their teas play 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:33.360 a big part in it. And that was never my 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:35.200 favorite letter of the alphabet, by the way that it 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:38.520 seems lately to have you moved up in importance. And 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:41.000 those words would be D T C or as the 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:45.680 acronym for direct to consumer and O T T over 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:48.440 the top. So a lot of teas showing up and 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:50.080 this is not at the front of it, just not 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:53.200 at the front. But but I think if if I 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:55.400 had to pick a topic that I think is on 0:07:55.440 --> 0:08:00.120 everyone's mind this year, it's understanding the psyche and understanding 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:06.480 the methods and the differentiation for marketers as it relates 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:12.920 to dealing with client average or marketing and advertising in 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:17.280 the traditional sense using the gatekeepers and the networks and 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:21.920 the cable and the platforms, or going to erect to 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:24.160 the consumer. Now you still need help to do that. 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.000 And I will get political for a moment and tell 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:30.760 you where I see such an interesting analogy. And I 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:32.560 said this three years ago. I wish I'd have said 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:36.600 it publicly. I said it privately. Um, My politics will 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:41.560 be obvious in a moment, but perhaps, but I think 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:47.840 our current president is the first president ever and maybe 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:51.280 one of the greatest examples of three things that seem 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:55.640 to be on the minds of media companies today, DT C, O, T, 0:08:55.840 --> 0:09:00.640 T and skinny bundles. Okay, I believe Donald J. Trump 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:03.839 was elected president with a skinny bundle. It's the only 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:07.080 thing about him that's skinny. And that skinny bundle, in 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:10.160 his case, wasn't five channels, it was three issues. He 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:12.800 found the three issues that the consumer if you will 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:17.559 the voters wanted and variation, immigration, security, jobs. That was 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:21.560 it I did. He didn't bring us five channels, he 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:25.160 brought us three. He brought it direct to the consumer, 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:28.520 and he brought it over and he brought it over 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:31.160 the top, on the back of Twitter, on the back 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:34.640 of social media. So I really think if you look 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:37.480 at that as a framework for where the world is 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:41.480 going today, it's a great I think. I mean that's so, 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:45.360 but you know, I think it's a great way to 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.680 make the point. That's what Disney has to deal with today. 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:51.240 That's what Warner Media has to deal with today. That's 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.200 what Netflix deals with. That's what Hulu deals with. Think 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:58.160 about all the companies that Comcast, the Apple and Apple. 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:01.200 You never forget Apple in a converse ation around dealing 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:04.800 director consumer. It's what Steve Jobs saw when he when 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:08.839 he launched iTunes. I remember him saying what he realized 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:11.760 was the ultimate customer wasn't back in the day for 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:16.120 Music Tower Records or HMV or Virgin Megastore. It was 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:19.840 Andrew Wallenstein or Michael Casson. He went direct. He said, 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:22.080 you want that song, you don't want the whole album. 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:26.080 He understood a skinny Bundle and and and so if 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:28.280 you look at that and you and you, you know, 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:32.000 use politics as a as a backdrop, and you look 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:35.080 at what's happening in the real world in terms of 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:39.160 what Disney and Warner and Comcast and Apple and Netflix 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:42.680 and Hulu, etcetera. Are dealing with. I think that gives 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:46.960 you a good picture of why marketers are looking at 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:50.960 the world now as two headed monsters brand building, warm 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:55.800 and fuzzy commercials that build the brand and actually calls 0:10:55.880 --> 0:11:00.800 to action in direct to consumer. Look at Peloton, look 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.240 at some of the brands that have just been built 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:08.280 from nowhere direct to the consumer. It's it's it's nothing 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:12.319 short of extraordinary. What I wonder, though, is what your 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:17.120 marketing clients think of this new wave of direct consumer uh, 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:20.600 you know, whether it's Disney, Apple, you know, would they 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:23.360 prefer to be in the same world of you know, 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:27.080 broadcasts and cable channels or does this new sort of 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:30.840 tier of distribution open up opportunities with data and so 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:37.880 on that they're craving. Well. Interesting question, obviously, because the 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:43.720 the inextricable link for a marketer to a content distribution 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:47.600 platform is how we all grew up We grew up 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:49.520 in a world where I'm I'm old. So I grew 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:51.160 up in a world where I had Channel two, four 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:54.120 or five, seven, nine, eleven, and thirteen, and I thought 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:56.480 that was free because we took a rabbit here on 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:59.200 the you know, on top of the television, or an 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.160 intent on top of roof, and you got it and 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:03.320 you didn't have to pay for it. Well, you did. 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:06.280 The quid pro quote was advertising, and you had to 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:09.640 make you made a commitment. There was a quid pro quote. 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:13.200 The consideration. I'm a lawyer, so I think in terms 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:17.560 of the consideration for the transaction, the consideration was you'd 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.120 be available to listen to and or watch the commercial 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:22.000 message that was delivered to you on the radio or 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:25.600 on television. Now, of course we never knew if you 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:27.320 didn't get up to go to the kitchen or go 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:30.679 to the bathroom or whatever and miss the commercial, and 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:32.880 that would be a breakdown of the consideration. But we 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:36.360 took that risk famously, John wanna make her? A hundred 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:40.160 plus years ago, a department store operator in the East 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:42.920 Coast said, uh, and again, this is one of the 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:46.080 most overused quotes in advertising, But fifty percent of my 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:49.360 advertising dollars are wasted. The question, of course, is which 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:53.480 fift Now we have a better shot at answering that 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:57.520 question today. So on the one hand, marketers are thrilled 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:01.319 to have more accountability, more trend parent seem more trust 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:06.800 in the numbers. On the other hand, in the world 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:11.480 of O T T and s VOD subscription video on demand, 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:15.920 the breakdown of where advertising can play a role is 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:18.960 dangerous and it's a threat to these folks because as 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:23.040 people have talked about the advertising industry the marketing industry, 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:27.680 it's a trillion dollar industry, and that trillion dollars is 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:32.680 spent on people utilizing commercial messages to deliver information about 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:34.880 the products or the goods of the services that they 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:38.480 want you to buy. Well, if that has been done 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:43.720 traditionally on the back of content magazines, radio television. You 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:45.720 never picked up a magazine that was all ads. You 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:49.200 picked up a magazine that was editorial and adds you 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:52.080 won't listen to the radio and it was ads and 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:56.160 music television the same. And now if it's s v 0:13:56.280 --> 0:14:00.240 O D and again they're you're making an assumption there 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:04.320 that everybody can afford another subscription fee. It's a very questionable. 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.520 And that's a very questionable assumption because we tend left 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:10.000 coast right coast to say, sure, another seven dollars a month, 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:12.760 no big deal. Lots of people to have another seven 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:16.200 dollars a month is not affordable exactly. And you know 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:18.880 the recent numbers that Warner is throwing out with there's 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:22.720 maybe fifteen to seventeen dollars a month. You know, we're 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:25.680 not in a world where everybody's got unlimited money for 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.200 additional subscription, so I'm not sure how all that's going 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:31.600 to work out. Advertising has been the ability to grease 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:34.000 the skids. Advertising has been the ability to get the 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:39.360 content and and not have to pay for it in money. 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:44.280 I would I would submit pay for paying for it 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:47.440 with your time and attention is a more valuable commodity. 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:51.480 But that's because I'm in a position where I'm fortunate 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:54.680 that I can afford the extra seven dollars. So to me, 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:57.240 the money isn't the issue. To me, the attention is 0:14:57.280 --> 0:14:59.560 the issue, and at the end of the day, that's 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.000 what it to be for everybody, but not everybody has 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.920 the luxury of that choice, right I. I wonder whether 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:08.920 we are in for quite a free for all. Once 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:12.720 all these direct to consumer services are out there, I 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:15.800 simply don't believe that consumers are going to spend for 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:18.520 more than a few of these at most. And that's 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.120 going to create a lot of carnage. I mean, how 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:23.640 do you see it? Absolutely, carnage is going to be 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.760 the word of the day. People are gonna choose based 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:31.440 on the simple equation. I believe he's of use user 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:35.600 interface all of that, But it's about the content, stupid, 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:37.880 it's the old. It's the old. It's about the content. 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:41.040 You know, That's what it's about. And that's why you 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:43.880 can't bet against what you know Bob Iger and Kevin 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:47.280 Mayer are doing over at Disney. It's about content. It's 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:48.960 you know, you look at their library and you go, 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:51.880 is somebody gonna pay six a month to be able 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:55.920 to get that access to all things Disney? Yeah? I 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:59.680 think they will same argument at seventeen dollars a month. 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:04.400 That's gonna be interesting. Yeah, you know, uh so so yeah, 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:06.720 there'll be a lot of carnage. And I think, you know, 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:09.880 to the victor's go the spoils. But in truth, I 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:11.880 think it's going to be driven by what it should 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:15.840 be driven by. Content. Yeah, well, I think the user 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:17.920 interface and all those things that make it easy to 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.680 get and price point, price point, and yeah, the the 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:25.240 disparity of everything between seven and seventeen. It's gonna get interesting. 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:26.920 But I also wanted to ask, you know, what we 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:29.680 were talking about. Spot a vot is a whole other 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:33.520 ball game, something that's also been interesting to watch. Given 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:36.960 just the sheer amount of controversy everywhere from YouTube to 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:41.600 Facebook about what content is appropriate for these platforms. It 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.760 feels like this is just a never ending nightmare for 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:47.920 these companies. And I was curious, especially as you sit 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:51.120 on sort of the Madison Avenue side of this. Uh, 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:54.280 do you see the stature of these companies, the importance 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:58.240 of these companies from marketers diminished by all this. So, 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.760 you know, it's interesting We've been chatting for ten minutes 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:03.760 or so, and that's the first time we mentioned Facebook 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:06.199 or Google and you can't have a conversation about this, 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:07.960 and they should have been in the first round of 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:10.879 this well and and but but to your point, that 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:14.720 just tells you how how crowded the field is. I mean, 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.080 you had to suggest Apple, I didn't say them. And 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:19.959 now we both just realized we hadn't said Facebook and Google. 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:23.880 Hard to imagine a conversation without that. And by the way, Amazon, 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:27.639 so you know, fang is no longer the acronym. What 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:31.400 was that? Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, and Google. You now 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:33.719 have to expand it. You've got to put Disney into that. 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:36.000 You've got a orner in that, You've got comcasted that 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:40.040 you've got I wonder if that pronounces out to a 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:43.760 coherent acronymic. Probably not. Yeah, you know what, it would 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:46.640 be cluster and you can finish and you can finish 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:51.439 the that's a two worded uh monster. But you know, 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:54.520 I think there's an interesting point to make their Andrew 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:58.640 about platform I've been a big believer and if you're 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:04.440 talking about content and and and the type of content, 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:09.280 I think we have an unfair advantage with the platforms 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:12.160 because I think the platforms are trying to separate themselves 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:14.760 as being different than media companies, but yet they want 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:17.359 to act like media companies, but they want to be 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:21.440 called platforms their media companies. You know, the analogy I've 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:24.240 drawn is if you go back to the famous wardrobe 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:28.120 malfunction at the Super Bowl. If you recall, as I do, 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:31.280 CBS was subject to serious fines by the FCC and 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:33.960 a potential of even a loss of their license for 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:38.600 a quote wardrobe malfunction with Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake. 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:43.439 And you think about brand safety on the quote platforms, 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:46.560 they're subject to no scrutiny like that, and yet their 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:51.679 media companies. Why is it a fair fight? If you know, 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:55.760 the traditional broadcasting cable networks are subject to standards and practices, 0:18:55.800 --> 0:18:59.080 and the quote unquote platforms are not well they are 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:03.560 those are now driven by the advertisers. The advertisers are saying, 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:07.119 we want to know we're in brand safe environment. We 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:13.000 don't want our commercial message running next to Johadas beheadings. Okay, 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:15.600 you know Joean Ross at CBS a couple of years 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:18.520 ago at an upfront presentation did a great piece. She 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:22.959 put up a picture of a horrible example of a 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:28.720 cruise ship sinking, followed by an ad for Royal Caribbean 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:34.560 and and and her joke was, this ship doesn't happen 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:40.040 on CBS. Okay, play on words, of course, but that 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:43.200 is a real issue around brand safety now. I think 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:48.720 the primary platforms that are in question on this, Facebook 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:53.960 and Google are doing all they can to deal with that. 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:56.320 But we're just coming out of this recent example with 0:19:56.359 --> 0:20:02.560 the Nancy Pelosi um uh interview where they manipulated the 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:05.480 video to you know, and and Facebook saying, hey, not 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:09.680 our problem. I don't agree with that. Again, politics aside 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:13.879 somebody's problems. Somebody has to own that. And and you know, 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:18.080 pay attention, folks, because the regulators are gonna, you know, 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:21.080 what we don't do, the regulators will do for us. 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:25.000 And my biggest fear in that context is this is 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:31.359 such a highly technical area that the regulators aren't educated 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:35.119 and the and the staff on Capitol Hill are not 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:39.439 educated to the nuance. And so I'm afraid in the 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:43.640 context of regulators getting involved in this, this will be 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:49.360 like what happened in financial services. Sarbanes Oxley was an 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:53.720 overcorrection based on Enron. Enron was a horrible circumstance with 0:20:54.000 --> 0:21:00.000 massive fraud and just dirty players. Sarbanes Oxley was an 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:04.080 over correction to that. What I hope does not happen 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:08.520 in the regulatory environment we're in today is any overcorrection. 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:13.200 Nobody wants big Brother, whatever that means these days, telling 0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:16.000 us what, where, who, ian when. But we also know 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:20.520 that left to their devices. Excuse the pun. The platforms 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:23.080 are not necessarily doing everything that we want them to do. 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:25.919 So on the one hand, you're saying it seems like 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:29.400 regulation is required. On the other hand, you're saying, the 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:33.240 potential for over regulation is quite high. So so how 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:35.080 do we win here and how do you think this 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:37.320 is going to play well? I think we need to 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:40.960 to to you know, um, I'm gonna you know, remember 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:42.920 and I said this earlier. I practiced law for the 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:44.840 first ten years of my career, Andrew, so I'm going 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:47.119 to give you a lawyer's answer. What we need is 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:50.359 a Goldilock solution. This is too hot, this is too cold. 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:53.199 We've got to find just right. Yeah, okay, so we 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:55.480 need we need that. I don't know the answer to that, 0:21:56.240 --> 0:21:59.880 but I'm I'm happy to say that I'm in can 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:04.520 versations on both sides of that trade, from a regulatory 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:08.760 perspective as well from the platforms. I'm using the term 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:11.560 I I just you know, kind of threw down, but 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:17.480 um to hope fully find that right solution. But it's 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:21.399 a challenge and and my fear goes very directly to 0:22:21.480 --> 0:22:24.320 the overcorrection and the potential for that. So to bring 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:27.000 the conversation full circle is can lie in a place 0:22:27.040 --> 0:22:32.720 where these conversations will be had front and center, you know, example, 0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:36.000 a mutual friend of ours and Jeffrey Katzenberg and Meg 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:39.200 Whitman with what they're doing with Cueby, they're coming to Can. 0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:41.720 Jeffrey is going to be awarded the Media Person of 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:44.199 the Year award, which is quite a feat in that 0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:46.800 a couple of years ago at the Can Film Festival 0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:49.399 he received the Palm Door. So Jeffrey will be the 0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:52.200 first person in history to be awarded both the Palm 0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:54.680 Door and the Media Person of the Year. Happens to 0:22:54.720 --> 0:22:57.720 be the same city and Can, but it's two different 0:22:58.119 --> 0:23:01.600