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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Variety podcast Strictly Business,

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Speaker 1: in which we talk with some of the brightest minds

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Speaker 1: working in the media today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein, co editor

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Speaker 1: in chief of Variety. The annual can Line event returns

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Speaker 1: this month, which means the media and marketing worlds are

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Speaker 1: about to converge in the South of France. And whenever

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Speaker 1: these industries come together, you could bet our next guest

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Speaker 1: is at the center of the room. Michael Casson is

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Speaker 1: the CEO of Media Link Company, dedicated to connecting the

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Speaker 1: major players in the space for dealmaking and more. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for coming in. This is why it's always great to

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Speaker 1: connect with you, because you've seen it, over seen it

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Speaker 1: all over decades in this business. But I'm curious, as

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Speaker 1: you head into can what do you think is going

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Speaker 1: to be sort of foremost on the minds of marketers

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Speaker 1: and media industry people. So, Andrew, it's great to join

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Speaker 1: you today. UM. The only thing I'd say to edit

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Speaker 1: a bit of that lovely introduction. Thank you. Um. We

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Speaker 1: look at it as marketing and media, but we also

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Speaker 1: look at it as a broader base. We look at

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Speaker 1: it as the intersection of marketing, media, advertising, entertainment and technology,

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Speaker 1: and that's sort of the want of Media Link as

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Speaker 1: a company. We we like to believe that we were

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Speaker 1: fortunate enough to find that intersection. The Can Lions is

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Speaker 1: really a manifestation of that. It's it's life imitating art.

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Speaker 1: It's the personification, if you will. It brings together marketing, media, advertising,

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Speaker 1: entertainment and technology. And over the last few years there's

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Speaker 1: been an addition. We see the investor community, We see

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Speaker 1: the private equity players showing up there as well, in

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Speaker 1: in larger numbers these days, because as they're looking at investments,

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Speaker 1: they figure you might as well be where the action is.

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Speaker 1: As I think, you know, because we've chatted about this before.

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Speaker 1: I'm a Hamilton's officionado. So we like to think of

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Speaker 1: can as the room where it happens. Uh you know,

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Speaker 1: the five blocks, if you will, on the clasette where

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Speaker 1: it happens. But all those players are converging. I think,

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Speaker 1: um this year, as usual, the center of the Can

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Speaker 1: Lions festivals around creativity. That's the thread White people go there.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's worthwhile to give a little bit

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Speaker 1: of history of how they Can Lions started. That's what

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Speaker 1: it was originally. It was a festival to celebrate creativity,

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Speaker 1: and so you have all the creative agencies there, the

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Speaker 1: stock names that you know mcann, Ericson and B B

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Speaker 1: d O and d dB and etcetera. Ogilvie m. About

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Speaker 1: twenty years ago, I happened to be in the South

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Speaker 1: of France on holiday. And it's a great story. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of a Wizard of Ozmo. When I was sitting

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Speaker 1: at the pool and I saw a bunch of people

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Speaker 1: from the advertising industry, from the creative side. And I

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Speaker 1: was running a large media agency back then, and I said,

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Speaker 1: in my Dorothy and the Wizard of oz mooment, I said,

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Speaker 1: and you were there, and you were there, and you

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Speaker 1: were there, like why are all these people here in

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Speaker 1: South France? And they said to me, well, it's the

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Speaker 1: can Lions and and you know, to put it in context,

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Speaker 1: I was running the largest media agency in the world

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Speaker 1: at the time and I said, oh, I've heard about that.

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Speaker 1: Because the media side was not included. It was strictly

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Speaker 1: the creatives. And I said to my wife that day,

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Speaker 1: I said, you know, honey, I'm gonna take a ride

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Speaker 1: into can We went on tea, but I said I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna take a ride into Can to see what this

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Speaker 1: is about. And I walked around and I thought, what

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Speaker 1: the hell the media people should be here, and so

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Speaker 1: you know, I think I was mission. I made that

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Speaker 1: my mission, bring the media people, because we pay for

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Speaker 1: all this stuff. You know, the media buying was where

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Speaker 1: the money was. The creative was where Don Draper hung

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Speaker 1: out and had three martinis for lunch. In Can it

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Speaker 1: would be three roses, but um and so traditionally again

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Speaker 1: it was creative. Then the media folks came, Then the

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Speaker 1: clients came. And it was Procter and Gamble that was

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Speaker 1: the first client to actually say, wait a minute, if

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Speaker 1: our agencies are going there to see, create of and

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Speaker 1: share creative, we should be there. And like in most things,

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Speaker 1: once Procter and Gamble did it and through the gauntlet

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Speaker 1: down and un lever, it was obvious that the clients

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Speaker 1: would all start coming. And then the digital media companies

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Speaker 1: started coming, and it was Microsoft and Yahoo and Facebook

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Speaker 1: and Google and you know, et cetera, and then everybody

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Speaker 1: started coming. So that's the progression and the continuum of Can.

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Speaker 1: How it's played out, it's almost seems to me like

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Speaker 1: it's kind of CS is the beginning of the year

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Speaker 1: bringing together all these entities you've described, and then this

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Speaker 1: is sort of the midpoint of the years bringing it again.

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Speaker 1: And it's a forcing function. You know, so often you

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Speaker 1: hear people say, well, do I really need to go

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Speaker 1: to CAN or do I really need to go to

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Speaker 1: c S. After all, I can see all those same

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Speaker 1: people in New York, Chicago, San Francisco, l A. Sure

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Speaker 1: you can see them, but you know, CAN or cees

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Speaker 1: those acts forcing functions. You're there and we've also seen

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Speaker 1: and this was one of the things that media Link

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Speaker 1: identified early. It's efficient when when you have in CAN

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Speaker 1: five days seven days released Sunday to Saturday. Um, I'm

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Speaker 1: not good at math. I think that's seven days, but um,

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Speaker 1: you know you have a week where the entire convergence

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Speaker 1: of all those industries come together and the senior players

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Speaker 1: are there. There's efficiency in that you can see everybody

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Speaker 1: within a span of you know, a couple of days,

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Speaker 1: within a couple of blocks. And similarly at CS and

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Speaker 1: so for us it was efficiency on the one hand

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Speaker 1: and the other hand, opportunistically, when you get all those

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Speaker 1: people together, you can make stuff happen. I would imagine

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Speaker 1: and I would imagine there's a lot to make happen

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Speaker 1: at a time in the media business where I mean,

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Speaker 1: let's not you know, overdo the cliche media business is

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Speaker 1: always in a state of flux. But right now, my god,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's disruption intensity level like perhaps it's never

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Speaker 1: been seen well using flux and trying to keep it clean.

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Speaker 1: I'd say, that's got a flux. It's got a flexcapacitator.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't that the back to the future, you know, Christopher

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Speaker 1: Lloyd de flux capacitator. I want to see if I

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Speaker 1: can say that fast five times. I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: try because I don't know where I'll end up, but

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Speaker 1: we'll have to edit it. But yes, and I think

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Speaker 1: we're at a point in time in in in those

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Speaker 1: convergent industries, the greatest amount of chaos I've ever seen

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Speaker 1: in my career is happening now. And it's saying something

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Speaker 1: because you have been around for decades and you've been

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Speaker 1: through some tough period absolutely, and I think this is

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Speaker 1: the highest degree of chaos I've ever seen. And and

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Speaker 1: you know, sort of a cluster of everybody trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out who's on first, and and and what the

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Speaker 1: what the priorities are. Last year, what we talked about

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Speaker 1: and the year before was everything that revolved around words

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Speaker 1: that begin with the letter T. Transparency. The issue around

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Speaker 1: transparency and advertising has been a big issue, the issue

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Speaker 1: around trust. There was a breakdown and trust between agency

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Speaker 1: and client and publisher. So you have another word that

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Speaker 1: begins with T, techno oology and obviously the you know

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Speaker 1: the importance of technology and rapid pace of change, and

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Speaker 1: talent because so many industries there's abundance of talent and

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Speaker 1: so many industries there's a dearth of talent. So at

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Speaker 1: that intersection that you know, if you look at it

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Speaker 1: as transparency, trust, technology, and talent, you see where I'm going.

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Speaker 1: The coincidence of all those words beginning with T. I'd

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Speaker 1: say this year there's some other words. Their teas play

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Speaker 1: a big part in it. And that was never my

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Speaker 1: favorite letter of the alphabet, by the way that it

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Speaker 1: seems lately to have you moved up in importance. And

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Speaker 1: those words would be D T C or as the

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Speaker 1: acronym for direct to consumer and O T T over

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Speaker 1: the top. So a lot of teas showing up and

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Speaker 1: this is not at the front of it, just not

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Speaker 1: at the front. But but I think if if I

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Speaker 1: had to pick a topic that I think is on

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Speaker 1: everyone's mind this year, it's understanding the psyche and understanding

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Speaker 1: the methods and the differentiation for marketers as it relates

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Speaker 1: to dealing with client average or marketing and advertising in

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Speaker 1: the traditional sense using the gatekeepers and the networks and

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Speaker 1: the cable and the platforms, or going to erect to

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Speaker 1: the consumer. Now you still need help to do that.

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Speaker 1: And I will get political for a moment and tell

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Speaker 1: you where I see such an interesting analogy. And I

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Speaker 1: said this three years ago. I wish I'd have said

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Speaker 1: it publicly. I said it privately. Um, My politics will

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Speaker 1: be obvious in a moment, but perhaps, but I think

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Speaker 1: our current president is the first president ever and maybe

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Speaker 1: one of the greatest examples of three things that seem

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Speaker 1: to be on the minds of media companies today, DT C, O, T,

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Speaker 1: T and skinny bundles. Okay, I believe Donald J. Trump

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Speaker 1: was elected president with a skinny bundle. It's the only

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Speaker 1: thing about him that's skinny. And that skinny bundle, in

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Speaker 1: his case, wasn't five channels, it was three issues. He

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Speaker 1: found the three issues that the consumer if you will

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Speaker 1: the voters wanted and variation, immigration, security, jobs. That was

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Speaker 1: it I did. He didn't bring us five channels, he

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Speaker 1: brought us three. He brought it direct to the consumer,

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Speaker 1: and he brought it over and he brought it over

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Speaker 1: the top, on the back of Twitter, on the back

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Speaker 1: of social media. So I really think if you look

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Speaker 1: at that as a framework for where the world is

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Speaker 1: going today, it's a great I think. I mean that's so,

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Speaker 1: but you know, I think it's a great way to

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Speaker 1: make the point. That's what Disney has to deal with today.

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Speaker 1: That's what Warner Media has to deal with today. That's

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Speaker 1: what Netflix deals with. That's what Hulu deals with. Think

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Speaker 1: about all the companies that Comcast, the Apple and Apple.

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Speaker 1: You never forget Apple in a converse ation around dealing

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Speaker 1: director consumer. It's what Steve Jobs saw when he when

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Speaker 1: he launched iTunes. I remember him saying what he realized

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Speaker 1: was the ultimate customer wasn't back in the day for

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Speaker 1: Music Tower Records or HMV or Virgin Megastore. It was

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Speaker 1: Andrew Wallenstein or Michael Casson. He went direct. He said,

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Speaker 1: you want that song, you don't want the whole album.

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Speaker 1: He understood a skinny Bundle and and and so if

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Speaker 1: you look at that and you and you, you know,

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Speaker 1: use politics as a as a backdrop, and you look

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Speaker 1: at what's happening in the real world in terms of

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Speaker 1: what Disney and Warner and Comcast and Apple and Netflix

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Speaker 1: and Hulu, etcetera. Are dealing with. I think that gives

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Speaker 1: you a good picture of why marketers are looking at

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Speaker 1: the world now as two headed monsters brand building, warm

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Speaker 1: and fuzzy commercials that build the brand and actually calls

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Speaker 1: to action in direct to consumer. Look at Peloton, look

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Speaker 1: at some of the brands that have just been built

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Speaker 1: from nowhere direct to the consumer. It's it's it's nothing

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Speaker 1: short of extraordinary. What I wonder, though, is what your

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Speaker 1: marketing clients think of this new wave of direct consumer uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, whether it's Disney, Apple, you know, would they

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Speaker 1: prefer to be in the same world of you know,

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Speaker 1: broadcasts and cable channels or does this new sort of

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Speaker 1: tier of distribution open up opportunities with data and so

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Speaker 1: on that they're craving. Well. Interesting question, obviously, because the

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Speaker 1: the inextricable link for a marketer to a content distribution

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Speaker 1: platform is how we all grew up We grew up

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Speaker 1: in a world where I'm I'm old. So I grew

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Speaker 1: up in a world where I had Channel two, four

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Speaker 1: or five, seven, nine, eleven, and thirteen, and I thought

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Speaker 1: that was free because we took a rabbit here on

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Speaker 1: the you know, on top of the television, or an

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Speaker 1: intent on top of roof, and you got it and

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Speaker 1: you didn't have to pay for it. Well, you did.

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Speaker 1: The quid pro quote was advertising, and you had to

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Speaker 1: make you made a commitment. There was a quid pro quote.

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Speaker 1: The consideration. I'm a lawyer, so I think in terms

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Speaker 1: of the consideration for the transaction, the consideration was you'd

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Speaker 1: be available to listen to and or watch the commercial

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Speaker 1: message that was delivered to you on the radio or

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Speaker 1: on television. Now, of course we never knew if you

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Speaker 1: didn't get up to go to the kitchen or go

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Speaker 1: to the bathroom or whatever and miss the commercial, and

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Speaker 1: that would be a breakdown of the consideration. But we

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Speaker 1: took that risk famously, John wanna make her? A hundred

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Speaker 1: plus years ago, a department store operator in the East

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Speaker 1: Coast said, uh, and again, this is one of the

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Speaker 1: most overused quotes in advertising, But fifty percent of my

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Speaker 1: advertising dollars are wasted. The question, of course, is which

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Speaker 1: fift Now we have a better shot at answering that

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Speaker 1: question today. So on the one hand, marketers are thrilled

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Speaker 1: to have more accountability, more trend parent seem more trust

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Speaker 1: in the numbers. On the other hand, in the world

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Speaker 1: of O T T and s VOD subscription video on demand,

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Speaker 1: the breakdown of where advertising can play a role is

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Speaker 1: dangerous and it's a threat to these folks because as

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Speaker 1: people have talked about the advertising industry the marketing industry,

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Speaker 1: it's a trillion dollar industry, and that trillion dollars is

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Speaker 1: spent on people utilizing commercial messages to deliver information about

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Speaker 1: the products or the goods of the services that they

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Speaker 1: want you to buy. Well, if that has been done

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Speaker 1: traditionally on the back of content magazines, radio television. You

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Speaker 1: never picked up a magazine that was all ads. You

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Speaker 1: picked up a magazine that was editorial and adds you

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Speaker 1: won't listen to the radio and it was ads and

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Speaker 1: music television the same. And now if it's s v

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Speaker 1: O D and again they're you're making an assumption there

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Speaker 1: that everybody can afford another subscription fee. It's a very questionable.

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Speaker 1: And that's a very questionable assumption because we tend left

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Speaker 1: coast right coast to say, sure, another seven dollars a month,

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Speaker 1: no big deal. Lots of people to have another seven

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Speaker 1: dollars a month is not affordable exactly. And you know

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Speaker 1: the recent numbers that Warner is throwing out with there's

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Speaker 1: maybe fifteen to seventeen dollars a month. You know, we're

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Speaker 1: not in a world where everybody's got unlimited money for

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Speaker 1: additional subscription, so I'm not sure how all that's going

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Speaker 1: to work out. Advertising has been the ability to grease

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Speaker 1: the skids. Advertising has been the ability to get the

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Speaker 1: content and and not have to pay for it in money.

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Speaker 1: I would I would submit pay for paying for it

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Speaker 1: with your time and attention is a more valuable commodity.

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Speaker 1: But that's because I'm in a position where I'm fortunate

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Speaker 1: that I can afford the extra seven dollars. So to me,

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Speaker 1: the money isn't the issue. To me, the attention is

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Speaker 1: the issue, and at the end of the day, that's

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Speaker 1: what it to be for everybody, but not everybody has

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Speaker 1: the luxury of that choice, right I. I wonder whether

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Speaker 1: we are in for quite a free for all. Once

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Speaker 1: all these direct to consumer services are out there, I

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Speaker 1: simply don't believe that consumers are going to spend for

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Speaker 1: more than a few of these at most. And that's

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Speaker 1: going to create a lot of carnage. I mean, how

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Speaker 1: do you see it? Absolutely, carnage is going to be

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Speaker 1: the word of the day. People are gonna choose based

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Speaker 1: on the simple equation. I believe he's of use user

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Speaker 1: interface all of that, But it's about the content, stupid,

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Speaker 1: it's the old. It's the old. It's about the content.

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Speaker 1: You know, That's what it's about. And that's why you

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Speaker 1: can't bet against what you know Bob Iger and Kevin

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Speaker 1: Mayer are doing over at Disney. It's about content. It's

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Speaker 1: you know, you look at their library and you go,

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Speaker 1: is somebody gonna pay six a month to be able

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Speaker 1: to get that access to all things Disney? Yeah? I

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Speaker 1: think they will same argument at seventeen dollars a month.

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Speaker 1: That's gonna be interesting. Yeah, you know, uh so so yeah,

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Speaker 1: there'll be a lot of carnage. And I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: to the victor's go the spoils. But in truth, I

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Speaker 1: think it's going to be driven by what it should

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Speaker 1: be driven by. Content. Yeah, well, I think the user

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Speaker 1: interface and all those things that make it easy to

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Speaker 1: get and price point, price point, and yeah, the the

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Speaker 1: disparity of everything between seven and seventeen. It's gonna get interesting.

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Speaker 1: But I also wanted to ask, you know, what we

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Speaker 1: were talking about. Spot a vot is a whole other

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Speaker 1: ball game, something that's also been interesting to watch. Given

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Speaker 1: just the sheer amount of controversy everywhere from YouTube to

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Speaker 1: Facebook about what content is appropriate for these platforms. It

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Speaker 1: feels like this is just a never ending nightmare for

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Speaker 1: these companies. And I was curious, especially as you sit

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Speaker 1: on sort of the Madison Avenue side of this. Uh,

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Speaker 1: do you see the stature of these companies, the importance

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Speaker 1: of these companies from marketers diminished by all this. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting We've been chatting for ten minutes

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Speaker 1: or so, and that's the first time we mentioned Facebook

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Speaker 1: or Google and you can't have a conversation about this,

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Speaker 1: and they should have been in the first round of

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Speaker 1: this well and and but but to your point, that

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Speaker 1: just tells you how how crowded the field is. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you had to suggest Apple, I didn't say them. And

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Speaker 1: now we both just realized we hadn't said Facebook and Google.

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Speaker 1: Hard to imagine a conversation without that. And by the way, Amazon,

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Speaker 1: so you know, fang is no longer the acronym. What

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Speaker 1: was that? Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, and Google. You now

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Speaker 1: have to expand it. You've got to put Disney into that.

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Speaker 1: You've got a orner in that, You've got comcasted that

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Speaker 1: you've got I wonder if that pronounces out to a

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Speaker 1: coherent acronymic. Probably not. Yeah, you know what, it would

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Speaker 1: be cluster and you can finish and you can finish

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Speaker 1: the that's a two worded uh monster. But you know,

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Speaker 1: I think there's an interesting point to make their Andrew

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Speaker 1: about platform I've been a big believer and if you're

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Speaker 1: talking about content and and and the type of content,

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Speaker 1: I think we have an unfair advantage with the platforms

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Speaker 1: because I think the platforms are trying to separate themselves

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Speaker 1: as being different than media companies, but yet they want

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Speaker 1: to act like media companies, but they want to be

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Speaker 1: called platforms their media companies. You know, the analogy I've

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Speaker 1: drawn is if you go back to the famous wardrobe

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Speaker 1: malfunction at the Super Bowl. If you recall, as I do,

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Speaker 1: CBS was subject to serious fines by the FCC and

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Speaker 1: a potential of even a loss of their license for

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Speaker 1: a quote wardrobe malfunction with Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake.

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Speaker 1: And you think about brand safety on the quote platforms,

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Speaker 1: they're subject to no scrutiny like that, and yet their

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Speaker 1: media companies. Why is it a fair fight? If you know,

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Speaker 1: the traditional broadcasting cable networks are subject to standards and practices,

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Speaker 1: and the quote unquote platforms are not well they are

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Speaker 1: those are now driven by the advertisers. The advertisers are saying,

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Speaker 1: we want to know we're in brand safe environment. We

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Speaker 1: don't want our commercial message running next to Johadas beheadings. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you know Joean Ross at CBS a couple of years

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Speaker 1: ago at an upfront presentation did a great piece. She

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Speaker 1: put up a picture of a horrible example of a

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Speaker 1: cruise ship sinking, followed by an ad for Royal Caribbean

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Speaker 1: and and and her joke was, this ship doesn't happen

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Speaker 1: on CBS. Okay, play on words, of course, but that

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Speaker 1: is a real issue around brand safety now. I think

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Speaker 1: the primary platforms that are in question on this, Facebook

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Speaker 1: and Google are doing all they can to deal with that.

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Speaker 1: But we're just coming out of this recent example with

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Speaker 1: the Nancy Pelosi um uh interview where they manipulated the

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Speaker 1: video to you know, and and Facebook saying, hey, not

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Speaker 1: our problem. I don't agree with that. Again, politics aside

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Speaker 1: somebody's problems. Somebody has to own that. And and you know,

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Speaker 1: pay attention, folks, because the regulators are gonna, you know,

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Speaker 1: what we don't do, the regulators will do for us.

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Speaker 1: And my biggest fear in that context is this is

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Speaker 1: such a highly technical area that the regulators aren't educated

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Speaker 1: and the and the staff on Capitol Hill are not

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Speaker 1: educated to the nuance. And so I'm afraid in the

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Speaker 1: context of regulators getting involved in this, this will be

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Speaker 1: like what happened in financial services. Sarbanes Oxley was an

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Speaker 1: overcorrection based on Enron. Enron was a horrible circumstance with

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Speaker 1: massive fraud and just dirty players. Sarbanes Oxley was an

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Speaker 1: over correction to that. What I hope does not happen

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Speaker 1: in the regulatory environment we're in today is any overcorrection.

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Speaker 1: Nobody wants big Brother, whatever that means these days, telling

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Speaker 1: us what, where, who, ian when. But we also know

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Speaker 1: that left to their devices. Excuse the pun. The platforms

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Speaker 1: are not necessarily doing everything that we want them to do.

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Speaker 1: So on the one hand, you're saying it seems like

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Speaker 1: regulation is required. On the other hand, you're saying, the

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Speaker 1: potential for over regulation is quite high. So so how

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Speaker 1: do we win here and how do you think this

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Speaker 1: is going to play well? I think we need to

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Speaker 1: to to you know, um, I'm gonna you know, remember

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Speaker 1: and I said this earlier. I practiced law for the

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Speaker 1: first ten years of my career, Andrew, so I'm going

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Speaker 1: to give you a lawyer's answer. What we need is

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Speaker 1: a Goldilock solution. This is too hot, this is too cold.

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Speaker 1: We've got to find just right. Yeah, okay, so we

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Speaker 1: need we need that. I don't know the answer to that,

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Speaker 1: but I'm I'm happy to say that I'm in can

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Speaker 1: versations on both sides of that trade, from a regulatory

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Speaker 1: perspective as well from the platforms. I'm using the term

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Speaker 1: I I just you know, kind of threw down, but

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Speaker 1: um to hope fully find that right solution. But it's

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Speaker 1: a challenge and and my fear goes very directly to

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Speaker 1: the overcorrection and the potential for that. So to bring

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Speaker 1: the conversation full circle is can lie in a place

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Speaker 1: where these conversations will be had front and center, you know, example,

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Speaker 1: a mutual friend of ours and Jeffrey Katzenberg and Meg

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Speaker 1: Whitman with what they're doing with Cueby, they're coming to Can.

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey is going to be awarded the Media Person of

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Speaker 1: the Year award, which is quite a feat in that

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Speaker 1: a couple of years ago at the Can Film Festival

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Speaker 1: he received the Palm Door. So Jeffrey will be the

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Speaker 1: first person in history to be awarded both the Palm

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Speaker 1: Door and the Media Person of the Year. Happens to

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Speaker 1: be the same city and Can, but it's two different

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Speaker 1: industries coming together. So I think that's a great um

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Speaker 1: you know, example of how the industries really are if

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Speaker 1: one person could be both recipient of both of those awards,

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Speaker 1: and Jeffrey will be the first person in history to

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Speaker 1: do that. And but separately at the Can Lions, we're

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Speaker 1: giving the Media Person the Entertainment Person of the Year

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Speaker 1: war to Lauren Michaels. Lauren Michaels has never been in

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Speaker 1: Can for the Lions. I'm guessing he'll have been there

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Speaker 1: for the film festival. I don't know that, or maybe

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Speaker 1: he'll been have been there for MIP or one of

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Speaker 1: the TV festivals. But Lauren Michaels is coming over this year,

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Speaker 1: uh and he'll receive the the the Entertainment Person of

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Speaker 1: the Year Award and not splitting hairs. But you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't think you can find somebody in in our

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Speaker 1: lifetimes that's had a bigger contribution to the entertainment business

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Speaker 1: than Lauren Michaels. Certainly in spawning talent. There's no question

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Speaker 1: he's peerless and that regard. You know, it's like the

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Speaker 1: old and you're a student of Hollywood, so you'll appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: The famous Louis B. Mayer picture that agreed that appeared

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Speaker 1: back in the third These where it was the Tiered Tables,

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Speaker 1: and it said more stars than there are in Heaven

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Speaker 1: and it had excuse me, Clark Gable and you know,

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Speaker 1: Shirley Temple and whoever the you know, Spencer Tracy and

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Speaker 1: Katherine Hepper and the stars of of that era were

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Speaker 1: all at MGM and the and the caption said more

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Speaker 1: stars than there are at Heaven. If you created that

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Speaker 1: same picture today and put Lauren Michael's as the Maestro

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Speaker 1: and the people who have come through the doors of

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Speaker 1: Saturday Night Live over the last what forty six forty

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Speaker 1: seven years? I think, thank you, I've bet a year

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Speaker 1: too many, but yeah, I think you know, a year

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Speaker 1: or so ago, but plus or minus. But think about it,

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Speaker 1: you'd have a couple of tiers of tables you know,

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Speaker 1: so way back and and and those people you know

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Speaker 1: have impacted cultural you know, their cultural phenomena what Saturday

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Speaker 1: Night Life turned out to be. So again, it's convergence

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Speaker 1: in Can this year entertainment. You've got every one of

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Speaker 1: the entertainment companies they're in Forest, Disney, Comcast, CBS, all

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Speaker 1: the cable players, they're all there. And its tech companies

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Speaker 1: as well. I remember a time we had quite a

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Speaker 1: presence Snap, Facebook, Google, Alphabet, every Microsoft, everyone is there.

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Speaker 1: It truly is the melting pot of those industries. Others

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Speaker 1: get pieces of that. But advertisers don't go to the

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Speaker 1: Can Film Festival, and point of fact, there's no reason

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Speaker 1: for them too. They creep into mip or mipcom because

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Speaker 1: it's television, and you could argue that they do want

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Speaker 1: to know more about that. But the crossover to the

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Speaker 1: Can Lions is nothing short of extraordinary. Now, in full disclosure, Andrew,

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Speaker 1: as you know, three years ago, I sold Media Link

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Speaker 1: to a company called Essential, and Essential also owns the

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Speaker 1: Can Lions, but we were operating with the Can Lions

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Speaker 1: as partners, as we still do now we're sister companies,

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Speaker 1: but we've operated as partners for most of the last

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Speaker 1: fifteen years. So that that's something I always like to

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Speaker 1: at least disclos is that, But that has no bearing

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Speaker 1: on the commitment or involvement that we've had in Can

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Speaker 1: for so many years. That was just a nice coincidence. Um,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm about to ask you to pick

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Speaker 1: between you know, which child you love the most. But

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Speaker 1: in terms of the centrality in the conversation for all

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Speaker 1: these industries that we're talking about, has can exceeded where

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Speaker 1: C E s is uh curious, So I always love

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Speaker 1: Sophie's choice. Um, you know, in terms of which child

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Speaker 1: you love the most? From a Media Link perspective, it's interesting.

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Speaker 1: CS obviously is the grandfather of all of this. A

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand people converging on Las Vegas, and

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Speaker 1: there used to be a winter show in Chicago and this,

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Speaker 1: you know, and and and then move or a summer

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Speaker 1: show rather in Chicago and the obviously the winter and

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Speaker 1: the January show in Las Vegas. Media Link was really

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Speaker 1: instrumental in bringing the marketing community to ce S. What

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Speaker 1: we identified was again a benst the backdrop of efficiency

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Speaker 1: and all that and calendar beginning of the year to

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Speaker 1: your point, but we saw the need as we redefined

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Speaker 1: let me back up for a moment, as we redefined

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Speaker 1: the role of the chief marketing officer. And what we

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Speaker 1: saw was working with Mark Bennioff actually at Salesforce many

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Speaker 1: years ago when he started investing in the marketing cloud,

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Speaker 1: we saw the convergence happening where a traditional chief marketing

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Speaker 1: officer would make marketing decisions and a traditional chief technology

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Speaker 1: or chief information officer would make technology decisions. You know

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Speaker 1: your I T department. You wouldn't think of your I

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Speaker 1: T department as being involved in marketing. You think of

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Speaker 1: your marketing department. The marketer of today and the I

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00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 1: T professional of today. Think about it. Marketers today are

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Speaker 1: making more technology decisions than ever, and technol and and

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00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: and and marketing people are making more technology decisions, and

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Speaker 1: technology people are making more marketing decisions because of the

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Speaker 1: rise of technology and marketing science. CS was a great

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Speaker 1: place to bring that to life because you had all

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Speaker 1: the tech and if the marketers got there early and

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Speaker 1: we're able to understand and have dialogue with the tech

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Speaker 1: creators where marketing messages were so important because if you're

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Speaker 1: going to transact business on your phone or on your device,

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Speaker 1: then marketing needs to be more integral in the design

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Speaker 1: and in the development of technology. So for us, we

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Speaker 1: saw that as an opportunity to bring marketing in. So

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Speaker 1: when you come to CE s now Andrew, which I

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Speaker 1: know you have, the C space was something we created

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Speaker 1: alongside the Consumer Electronics or now the Consumer Technology Association,

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Speaker 1: originally called Brand Matters. You're familiar because Variety was a

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Speaker 1: big supporter of Entertainment Matters. We created Brand Matters about

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00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: ten years ago to bring the marketers to CES. So

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Speaker 1: I feel a very strong proprietary interest in what happened

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Speaker 1: at CES because I didn't just glom onto that and

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00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 1: go there. We actually brought that interesting at at CAN

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Speaker 1: it existed obviously, like c S, all the marketers were there.

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Speaker 1: We were leaders in bringing media there, and then we

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00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: clearly played a role in bringing the others there. What

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Speaker 1: I think is unique and special about Can is it

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Speaker 1: really is truly that melting pot that I alluded to earlier.

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Speaker 1: It brings everything together marketing, media, advertising, entertainment, technology, and

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Speaker 1: now finance. I've never really understood the distinction, but now

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Speaker 1: you've kind of laid it out there, I totally get it.

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Speaker 1: And and look, I appreciate I will not be at

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Speaker 1: Can this year, but I'm sure i'll see you again

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00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: at the very least and sees, if not sooner. Looking

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Speaker 1: forward to seeing how CAN goes from afar And I

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Speaker 1: thank you for coming in today life. It's always a pleasure.

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Speaker 1: This has been another episode strictly Business. Tune in next

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Speaker 1: week for another helping a scintillating conversation with media movers

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00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: and shakers, and please make sure you subscribe to the

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00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: podcast to hear future episodes. Also leave a review in

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00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: Apple Podcast let us know how we're doing. M