WEBVTT - Shrinkflation Exposed: What Big Brands Don’t Want You to Know 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:04.640 Now really. 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:10.000 Really now, really well. 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:12.600 And welcome to really know really, Jason, Alexander and Peter 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:15.520 Tilden remind you that your heart will never shrink if 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:19.040 you subscribe to our show. And speaking of shrinking, every 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:22.680 Seinfeld fan knows what shrinkage is, but in real life, 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:26.120 shrinkage is a phenomenon that's happening all around us and 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:30.000 it affects everyone all the time. It's when companies secretly 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:33.200 sell us less product for the exact same price, or 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:37.040 even at an increased price. Over the past forty years, 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:41.760 one in every three supermarket products have stealthily increased in price, 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:44.479 and that means we're all getting much less of actually 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:45.440 paying more. 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:47.280 Really, no really. 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:51.720 Edgar Dwarfski is known as mister Consumer and has been 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:55.120 a consumer advocate for over forty five years. He joins 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:57.880 Jason and Peter to highlight the selling scams and to 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:01.400 explain how many companies have pre did a national, if 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:05.800 not global shrink flation. And now here are two guys 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:08.759 you always give you less for more, Jason and Peters. 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:13.720 So this episode you've been waiting for this, You've been 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:16.400 waiting for this because you I think your favorite episode 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:19.120 of Seinfeld was where we kept yelling shrimp shrinkage. 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:20.240 There's shrinkage. 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:22.880 There's lots of shrinkage, and this episode is a lot 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:24.480 of shrink in real life shrinkage. 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:28.120 One in three supermarket products have been shrink flated over 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:31.720 the last four years, which means less product in the 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:33.080 thing in the can. 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:34.679 At the same price. 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:36.759 And then you wonder, also, did the price has ever 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:39.200 come back? What happens with you? 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:41.280 I can answer that for you. Yeah, the price has 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:42.440 never never come back. 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:45.240 Now also you're you're at such a point now with 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:48.880 pushback from the public that in France there's a supermarket 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:53.000 chain that is now actually labeling stuff that has been 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:55.440 shrink flated, so the public knows because they feel obligated 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:56.200 to let people know. 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:57.600 I think that'd be great on the bunk and now 0:01:57.640 --> 0:01:59.520 with thirty percent less product, Yeah. 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:03.280 But more guts, more guts, less product made with more love. 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.680 But because it's kind of sneaky when they raise prices, 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:09.240 we get it, but when they put less product in 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:11.440 and they do it in a way where either they 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:13.240 indent the bottom of the thing, whether there's air in 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:15.480 there or you don't know. So we wanted to get 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:17.919 on somebody who not only knows about it, but he's 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:21.120 considered the world's foremost expert on shrink plates. 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:21.639 Yes we do. 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:25.280 A consumer advocate for over forty five years, Edgar Dwarski, 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:28.720 also known as Mister Consumer, founded Consumer World in nineteen 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:32.200 ninety five. It's public service company highlighting the latest consumer 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:34.880 news and scam alerts and ways to save money. He 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:38.560 was a former Massachusetts attorney assistants Attorney General and consumer 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:41.360 Protection was a consultant for the Federal Trade Commission. 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:43.720 This is a big and before we say hi, he's 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:46.480 standing there. The thing is when you got a consumer 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:48.360 reporter who's not in and about making money, and I 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:50.320 know that this was a lot of this was funded 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:51.800 by you. 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:52.560 You don't live. 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:55.520 Big, but this is really from your heart and you 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:57.680 don't see many people like that, and I wanted to 0:02:57.720 --> 0:02:58.760 talk about that com on. 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:01.120 So let's welcome Edgar warskif to our show. 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:06.000 Thanks, thanks for having me. Guys really appreciate the invitation. 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:08.800 So before we get into products and some that are 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:12.920 inflated worse than others and skinflated, which means the ingredients 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:16.200 or wordered down or whatever, why did you get into 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:19.679 what called to you to do? Something that's not thankful. 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:21.240 You don't make money doing this. 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:24.000 I'm guessing he was taking. He was abused. He was 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:27.799 an abusion. Something happened. He thought he bought a thing. 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:30.520 It was less of a thing, and it was a crusade. 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:32.560 Was born right here? Am I anywhere near right? 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:38.880 I actually majored in marketing as a college student, and 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:42.600 some of my jobs were in market research. But I learned, 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:47.000 you know, creating questionneers, listening to consumers. I cared more 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:50.880 about the consumers that I cared about the manufacturers. You 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:55.400 know that hired me to do the questionnaires. And if 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:58.760 you do something you love, you don't have to get 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:02.440 paid for it, or believe me, I get paid buck gis. 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:05.280 And by the way, it's less buckused than even you 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:07.600 look like like, let me. 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:11.040 Take a moment for the non Yiddish speakers. 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:14.080 Means nothing, zero, not a. 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:19.560 Silch ziph nine shine means. 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:20.200 So you do it from your heart and you not 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:23.440 only I got the newsletter and I've gone to consumer World. 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:25.440 You should see how many articles he puts out. And 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:28.400 I think you still every Monday put out the top 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:31.120 shrinkflation items. A couple of top shrinkflation items to look 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:31.720 for correct. 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:35.159 Well, every Monday there's a newsletter with in twenty five 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.240 or thirty consumer news stories. I didn't write most of them, 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:42.600 and maybe quarterly i'll do a list of items that 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:48.040 have shrunk, or as you'd say, have we're skimping on 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:52.320 a product where you're getting you know, less oil in 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:55.359 the salad dressing than used to get in the substitute water. 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:57.400 That's what skimplouse. 0:04:57.640 --> 0:04:59.080 Yeah, well he should. I mean I've seen him. I've 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:02.040 seen a whole to each other, and you watch, you want, 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:04.360 you can see the levels right there before we get 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:07.400 to certain products. I just had read an article in 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:10.839 preparation for this saying that the worst offenders of this 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:13.719 are dollar stores or the inexpensive stores. 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:15.080 Is that seam accurate to you? 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:19.520 Well, what I found is dollar stores have products made 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:23.479 especially for them. Someone sent me a picture of some 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:28.119 Campbell's chunky soup and the regular size is eighteen point 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:30.839 four ounces or something like that, and then there was 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:34.640 a sixteen point one and they said, look at this shrinkflation. No, 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:38.960 the sixteen ounce one especially made for the dollar stores 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:42.320 so they can charge less for it. Most consumers don't 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:45.240 realize they're really getting less for their money at the 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:48.200 dollar store buying the smaller size. 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:53.039 And am I correct that in better financial times when 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:55.840 these companies are doing a little bit better, they never 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:57.800 turn around and go, oh, we're doing good, now we 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:00.280 can lower the pro I mean, is there ever a 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:01.520 true price reduction? 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:03.000 Once a price is gone. 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:07.960 Up, sometimes prices come down. You'll see specials, you may 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:11.599 see a loss leader. But people often ask, well do 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:15.040 you ever see the big product again? Well, sometimes they 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.360 shrink the product so much they have to bring back 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:21.600 a larger size, but it's never at the original price, 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:24.240 and they give it a fancy name, like potato chips. 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:26.000 You always used to have a one pound bag of 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:29.320 potato chips. Then they became fourteen ounces in thirteen and 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:33.080 twelve and eleven and ten. Then they bring back a 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:37.760 new one. Oh look, party size and it's sixteen ounces again. 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:39.560 Probably get double the original price. 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.040 Whoa boy? 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:44.240 So if party size and also new and improved is 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:45.120 nonsense a lot? 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:50.960 Well, it's funny you mentioned before, are we ever going 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:53.960 to see something on a label that talks about getting 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:57.520 small size? We always see new and improved. My fantasy 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:00.000 has always been, are we going to see a starbars? 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:03.880 This says, look twenty percent less instead of twenty percent more. 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:06.960 R Wow, but new improved it brings us back at 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:09.440 a bigger price. With new and improved. Do they have 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:11.200 to prove that it's new and improved in any way 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:11.440 or no. 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:17.160 It's typically viewed as puffing to say that the product 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:20.120 is new and improved. Hopefully it really is true. They've 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:24.400 done something. I mean, for years, Sharman, the number one 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:27.760 toilet paper brand, used to say, oh, it's now softer 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:31.920 and it's fluffed. And I had asked them at one point, well, 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:34.600 you know, the original Sharman had six hundred and fifty 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:38.600 sheets on a roll. They're now down. If you could 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:43.040 find single rolls of Sharman to fifty five sheets on 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:46.560 a roll ninety percent less. Let me actually show you 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:50.720 a product. This is like a toy. You can see 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:52.880 the dollar bill is here to show this is maybe 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:56.160 an inch and a half more than a dollar bill. 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:58.800 If you could find a product like this today, it 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:02.320 would have fifty five sheets on a roll compared to 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:05.640 the original six hundred and fifty. But what did they do? 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:10.520 They came out with Mega size and then super megasize, 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:16.200 and now there's a Mega XXL size. That's four hundred 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:19.200 and forty sheets on Sharman, so it's still two hundred 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:20.360 less than the original. 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:23.840 My god, So when it dropped from six hundred defined 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:28.200 to fifty, didn't the consumer go hell no oh. 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:29.920 If you did it all in one fell swoop. But 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:32.400 we're talking about think of back to the days of 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:36.840 mister Whipple in the nineteen sixties. Ladies, Please don't squeeze 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:40.600 the Sharman right over the years, so it went down 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:43.440 to six hundred and five point fifty and five hundred 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:47.520 and four hundred and just slowly, maybe every six months, 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.760 maybe every year or two, so you don't catch it. 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:55.160 And that's what's so sneaky about shrink flation. Look at 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:57.959 the product and it looks about the same size as all. 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:00.360 Let me do the pushback and advocate. Just give the 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:03.480 company's point of view, he Edgar. Patroleum products costs more, 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:08.120 the processing costs more, labor benefits, labor costs more, real 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:11.040 estate costs more, electricity costs more. We couldn't do this 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:14.800 and keep a profit. Is that legitimate or is it 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:18.120 legitimate to say fifty percent of that? But they still 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:20.240 keep their margins, and the margins have gone up over 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:20.760 the years. 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:25.400 Well, it's legitimate that they have, you know, increased costs. Absolutely, 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:29.520 do they pass it on to consumers in a straightforward way. 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:33.600 Many shoppers say they would rather pay more than have 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:37.600 the sneaky backdoor price increase where they do it in 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:40.160 kind of a steaky, surreptitious way. 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:43.440 Well, how about store brands when you so when you 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:45.720 see that happens, and you go, I'm not choosing to 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:48.320 buy into this too much. I'll go with the store brand. 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:52.200 Is a store brand generally cheaper and more product. 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:55.280 Well, the store brand is generally cheaper, and it tends 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:59.760 to be the last one to change and downsize. Years ago, 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:04.040 when and Skippy went from eighteen ounces to sixteen point three, 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:07.120 you mentioned in your intro, how did they do it? 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:10.240 The old jar looked the same as the new jar. Well, 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:12.960 they put an indent in the bottom of the jar, 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:15.000 so it looked to be the same size. So the 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:21.480 kind of masters at packaging tricks. Cereal, for example, Kellogg 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:25.400 Cereal Special k RedBerry came out. It said it's announced 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:27.440 and a half or so less than it was before. 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:30.160 The new box is taller than the old one. 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:38.439 Is this is this more or less limited to supermarket items, 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:42.800 or is this happening you know, in big electronics and 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:45.559 and appliances and cars. Is it is in it across 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:48.080 the board shrink flesh or is it just the sort 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:49.800 of small daily products we find on. 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:51.160 The shelves Well we. 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:05.400 Is it across the board shrimp flesh or is it 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:08.040 just the sort of small daily products we find on 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:08.480 the shelves. 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:11.280 Well, we tend to see most in health and beauty 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:16.520 aids in supermarkets. But someone just posted today a story 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:20.800 about home depot having some certain type of wire and 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:23.440 they had the wire from four years ago in the 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:27.600 wire today and they showed it was a narrower gauge. 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:32.000 So it really can be across the board. See, and 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:35.800 a lot of times we don't know with skimpflation, where 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:41.239 the manufacturer reformulates the product, we don't know what percentage 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:44.880 of cleaning ingredients are intied. For example, it's not on 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:48.080 the label. So how would you know if they took 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:51.200 out some of the expensive cleaners in there and substituted 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:53.160 something else. You have no way of knowing. 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:56.160 Well, I also read somewhere that they shaved like bars 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:58.640 of soap. They'll shave the corners they're round off the 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.480 corners to shave size, and you won't so it's not 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:03.520 obvious when you're holding the bar that it's smaller. 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:04.920 Is that accurate. 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:09.120 Well, they've changed the shape of bars. They've put a 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:13.440 curve in it. The bath sized bar used to be 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:18.520 five ounces. You're lucky if it's three point nine ounces 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:23.080 these days, tuna cans. It was seven ounces to start with, 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:25.960 then it was six and a half, and then six 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:27.880 and five and a half. In the current you know, 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:32.200 tuna is five ounces. Let me show you kind of 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:36.080 the history of ice cream. This is Briar's ice Cream, 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:38.280 one of the big brands, but other brands like Eighties, 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:40.839 did the same thing. Used to buy a half gallon 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:44.440 of ice cream sixty four ounces, then they took out 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:48.280 a cup, made it fifty six ounces. Then they took 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:52.360 out another cup and made it forty eight ounces. And 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:55.680 we're paying as much, if not more, today for ice 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:56.560 cream than we used to. 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:58.240 Did They still call it a half gallon. 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:00.960 Now they don't call it a half gas. But I 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:03.160 mean here, when you have them lined up, you can 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:05.679 see a little bit of a difference. Yeah, But in 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:09.640 the store, unless you have that last package of the 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:12.920 old size right next to the new package of the 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:16.160 news size. You can't tell the difference, so the change 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:19.679 over time is very subtle. You buy a four roll 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:22.560 pack of toilet paper, it looks like I always did 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:25.240 same thing with paper towels, but you're getting much less. 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:30.520 And is this commpletely legal that these companies do not 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:33.040 have to report what they're doing to the consumer. 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:37.439 It is absolutely kosher as long as they list the 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:41.680 net weight or the net count on the package. It's 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:46.000 up to us, as good consumers and sharp shoppers to 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:49.920 pay attention. Shame on us if we don't pay attention. 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:52.320 And that's really one of my tips. You have to 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:55.600 get to know what the size of the products is 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:57.920 you normally buy. If you're just someone who goes to 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:01.559 the store, grabs the product, rose it in your cart. 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:04.000 You don't pay attention to the fine print, you're going 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:05.320 to get snuggered. 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:09.960 When you see new streamline bottle, easier to grip or 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:12.240 whatever that can also be a giveaway. 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:16.600 Correct, correct, Well, I thought this gatorade is thirty two ounces, 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:19.720 this one is twenty eight, So you lost half a 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:24.200 cup between the two. Would you necessarily notice? No? What 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:28.160 did they do? They tapered the middle of this bottle, 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:31.400 and when I asked them, why did you do it, 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.520 they said, well, we wanted to make the bottle easier 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:38.280 to grip. Well, give me a break. Did they really 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:42.240 get a ton of consumer complaints? But said, gee, slipper 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:45.600 have a hard time holding this big bottle, please make 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:46.400 it smaller. 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:47.640 Wow? 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:50.960 Does the average consumer? This is interesting? 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:53.640 I think I'm probably your worst nightmare because I am 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:56.240 a sort of a you know, I need towels, grab 0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:58.600 it off the shelf. I don't really look as much. 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:01.560 But does the average consumer notice this? 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:08.160 A and B care enough to stop the trend? 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:13.360 I think more and more consumers are noticing. For decades, 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:17.640 I call this downsizing. But maybe seven or eight years ago, 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:22.040 the term strength inflation came about and the media really 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:25.360 glommed onto that. And because of it, there's been so 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:30.520 many stories about products shrinking. Consumers awareness of it really 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:34.040 is increasing. And when you read comments, you know, on 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:37.200 my website Mouthsprint dot org, when I showcase you know, 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:41.760 half a dozen or dozen items, people really are getting angry. 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:44.880 Many people say I'm going to switch away from the 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:47.800 name brand. I'm going to switch to another brand that 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.480 hasn't done it, or, as you mentioned before, the store brand, 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:53.440 which tends to be the last one to change. So 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:57.840 there is anger out there, but has that anger translated 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:03.120 into companies changing how they do business. Money talks louder 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:04.240 than consumer. 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:06.520 So there hasn't been enough pushback to brands. Brands are 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.200 not suffering from this yet or are they? To people 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:11.880 At a certain point say I am switching brands, and 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:14.480 then these companies actually see it and it hurts them. 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:18.640 Well, the trouble is then the competitor switches to the 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:23.240 smaller size also, so now there's equilibrium, and where am 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:26.680 I going? Everyone's doing it? Where is there for the 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:29.480 consumer to go? There isn't They used to be time 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:33.200 you buy Oreos a sixteen ounce package and then they 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:36.920 went down to fifteen point something and now I believe 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:41.760 it's like thirteen point something for Oreos. If you don't 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:44.840 pay attention, you really don't realize you're getting less for 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:48.360 your money. One other nasty trick they're doing that we 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:52.120 mentioned before, like Potato Chips putting the name party size 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:58.479 on it. Breakfast Cereal you have large size, family size, 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:02.800 giant size on the top of cereal, and if they 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:07.960 conditioned people to buy by size name. You're not paying 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:11.840 attention to the net weight. So you know, wife says 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:14.919 the hobby go to the store and get some you know, 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:18.760 family sized cheerios. Well, he sees the word family, grabs it, 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:21.040 puts it in the cart, and you don't realize you 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:23.879 may be getting a ball or two less in every box. 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:27.000 That's how they get you. That's kind of the latest 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:29.320 trick in their in their playbook. 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:33.760 So, Edgar, before we move on, I got to ask 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.040 you started out when I guess a lot of networks 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:38.520 had consumer reporters. I remember Philly they had a consumer 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:41.399 guy and they were always balled and went out and 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:44.119 busted somebody who ripped somebody off or whatever, and it 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:46.480 was entertained. It was entertainment and was also the legal 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:50.520 part of it whatever. And then that started to diminish. 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:53.480 And now you're like one of the last men standing. 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:56.720 And Jason and I were talking about this ahead of time. 0:17:57.040 --> 0:17:59.800 You know, thankfully you do exist, and you got the 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:01.600 news letter and you got mouseprint and all of that. 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:04.480 But I don't see new I don't see any kids 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:06.680 coming up today saying I want to be a consumer advocate, 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:08.840 which is kind of like a whistleblower. You going against 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:11.560 these big companies, and as they consolidate, they get a 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:13.560 lot more powerful and they consue you. They can make 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:17.479 life miserable for consumer advocate. What's happening in that field? 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:21.240 Is there a national consumer Advocate get together that we 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:23.400 will have end of the year. Do you mentor anybody? 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:26.200 Do you see where that's going as far as protections? 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:30.280 Well, well, actually the Consumer Consumer Federation of America has 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:36.080 an annual conference, but we are all aging. I used 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:39.160 to be a member of the Massachusetts Consumers Coalition, which 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:41.720 were all the local consumer groups in the state, and 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:44.479 there were some young guys in their twenties and I 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:46.880 was so happy to see them there and I said, 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:49.440 you know, you guys are the future of the movement. 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:52.159 You know, all of us are getting older, we're going 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:56.040 to be retiring, you're going to be taking over. What 0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:59.280 do they do? They went and took other jobs. So 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:04.040 it's really tough, and particularly with the change in administrations. 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.439 I don't think you're going to see an active Federal 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:10.080 Trade Commission. I don't think you're going to see an 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:16.639 active Consumer Financial Protection Bureau or FCC. So we've lived 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.760 kind of a charmed life the past few years, with 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:23.480 you know, click to cancel no more, you know, fake reviews, 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:28.240 all these different initiatives by the consumer agencies. I think 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:31.160 they're going to be muffled, and that really is unfortunate 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:35.359 because we're all consumers. We do deserve protection from those 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:37.159 who would take advantage. 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:39.200 Of And if you go shopping, you're buying thirty items 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:42.400 and third or half of them are shrink flated, look 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:43.920 at what your buying power has worse. 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:47.000 I'm also wondering, you know, I'm not pushing back on 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:51.520 your concern at all, Edgar, but I also wonder why 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:54.919 if I, I mean, if I'm making a product, and 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:58.560 sure I want to, I want to increase profit to the. 0:19:58.560 --> 0:19:59.760 Greatest extent I can. 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:03.960 But even if you know, federally I'm not regulated to 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:06.200 do certain things that I know are best for my 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:07.840 customer base. 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:09.800 Am I really just so. 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:16.640 Unconcerned about my customer that I'll take every advantage of. 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:18.840 Them I can. Do you find that there is just 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:20.520 no sense of. 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:27.320 Ethics, you know, to the towards the consumer and the 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:30.400 customer base that easily flaunted. 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:34.480 I mean, it's hard to call it unethical, is it 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:38.840 sneaky for sure. The trouble is everyone does it. It's 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:44.400 a copycat industry. One toilet paper brand downsizes, another one 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:48.000 follows suit. If one peanut butter gets smaller, another one 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:50.840 does it. One brand of cereal if Kellogg's does it, 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:56.639 General Mills follows. Any number of times when I've asked companies, 0:20:56.720 --> 0:21:00.240 why did you do it, I'll say, well, a competitor 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:03.040 did it, So we're just kind of following the trend 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:04.200 in the market. 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:05.680 That's what my mother would say. 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:08.400 If the competitor jumped off the roof, would you jump 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:08.880 off the road? 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:09.480 Here's the deal. 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:11.760 That's what my mother would be to defend them from 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:14.080 a standpoint of are they ripping us off? So I'm 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:15.960 the company and I go my costs go up, I 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:18.280 have to launch new products that don't always work. That 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:20.000 I got a build in failure and all that, and 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:22.960