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Speaker 2: Hey, everyone, welcome to the Renee thub At Tennis Podcast.
Speaker 2: I am on the road in Miami. Caitlin is at
Speaker 2: home in New York, and we have so much to
Speaker 2: talk about. Oh my god, Indivian, Wells, Mira andriv But
Speaker 2: before we get to that, Caitlyn, you went to space
Speaker 2: last week.
Speaker 1: I have returned from Space the Final Frontier. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: have to say, Isaac, my kid's Space camp. It was amazing.
Speaker 1: Any parents out there who have a nurse highly recommend.
Speaker 2: Although you have to.
Speaker 1: You have to.
Speaker 2: Reference to the fact that the hotel is not exactly
Speaker 2: like a five star hotel.
Speaker 1: It isn't even a hotel at all. It's a habitat.
Speaker 1: It has no windows or blankets. The showers are rough,
Speaker 1: and you know, conditions are less than ideal, but as
Speaker 1: they would be in space. You don't even get to
Speaker 1: take a shower in space. They use baby wipes. I learned,
Speaker 1: which you know, those people who got stranded on the
Speaker 1: space station for eight and a half extra months. They
Speaker 1: were expecting hot showers and instead they got baby wipes,
Speaker 1: So you know, not everything's easy in space forne He
Speaker 1: had a lot of complaints about the food. My kid
Speaker 1: had a lot of complaints about the rustic accommodations. But
Speaker 1: also we did amazing things and went on moonwalks and
Speaker 1: did missions and zero gravity training. So you know, this
Speaker 1: is just a day in the life of a parent,
Speaker 1: kind of similar to the mode you are in as
Speaker 1: a coach. Do you feel like coaching and parenting is
Speaker 1: probably kind of somewhat related. I got to see you
Speaker 1: in action last week and it emails coaching, Alan Perez.
Speaker 2: Coaching is a lot like parenting because you have this
Speaker 2: you have to walk a fine line, as you know, right,
Speaker 2: so you know, you want to teach your kid certain things, right,
Speaker 2: You want to teach them certain things and certain habits
Speaker 2: and trying to break other habits and things like that,
Speaker 2: and sometimes you don't want to go too far. You
Speaker 2: don't want to like break their spirit, but you also
Speaker 2: don't want them to get away with too much. So
Speaker 2: there's like that balance of like how much can you
Speaker 2: tell them, how much can you keep reinforcing it right.
Speaker 2: If they keep doing the same mistake, do you keep
Speaker 2: harping on it or do you harp on it once
Speaker 2: every five minutes or once every five seconds. So there's
Speaker 2: that really unique balance with coaching, as I think it
Speaker 2: is with parenting as well. How far do you go?
Speaker 1: I was super impressed and enjoyed greatly. I've seen you
Speaker 1: coach plenty of times, but it was really cool to
Speaker 1: see Ellen Perez, who was playing with Yelena Ostapenko. They
Speaker 1: had a pretty good run in Indian Wells. I thought
Speaker 1: they came through some really intense matches, and it was
Speaker 1: cool to see a player I hadn't paid very much
Speaker 1: attention to, candidly, who you know, was sort of fun
Speaker 1: and dynamic and had a good attitude, and you know,
Speaker 1: it was nice to sit with you in sam Stosa
Speaker 1: and sweat in the California sunshine, work on my tan
Speaker 1: and get to watch some great tennis, which is why,
Speaker 1: of course we love BNP probably about Open so much
Speaker 1: because it's like, honestly, just the most fun. But I
Speaker 1: have to say this is a great swing because it
Speaker 1: brings us, obviously from Indian Wells to Miami, which I
Speaker 1: want to talk to you about. But first, shall we
Speaker 1: recap what a great Indian Wells that was? What a
Speaker 1: great Indian Wells. I thought it was a phenomenal addition
Speaker 1: to the tournament.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you had said to me, the winner
Speaker 2: of these events are going to be Mira Andreva and
Speaker 2: Jack Draper, I probably would have said, a It's possible, certainly,
Speaker 2: Mirror after coming off of you know, her victory and
Speaker 2: in the Middle East with tons of confidence, but still
Speaker 2: to back go back to back is very, very difficult
Speaker 2: for anybody, and particularly someone so young. So I would
Speaker 2: have said maybe Mirror, but tough Jack certainly possible. I
Speaker 2: don't know if he can close it out kind of thing.
Speaker 2: So to actually see them both get through and when
Speaker 2: you know, the biggest titles of their career, I know
Speaker 2: Mirror just wanted to buy and but but this, this
Speaker 2: is different. This is on another level in Ian Welles
Speaker 2: and the way that she did it was just phenomenal.
Speaker 2: To beat the players that she beat, and Jack to
Speaker 2: beat the players he beat. So I don't know, what
Speaker 2: do you What were your thoughts? What were your favorite
Speaker 2: matches that you that you saw? You you saw a
Speaker 2: lot of tennis as well.
Speaker 1: Mirror and Dreva Iger Schmantek was a masterclass uh in strategy,
Speaker 1: patient composure. I was so impressed with me Andreva, who
Speaker 1: I agree, even though she just won last week or
Speaker 1: the week leading up to the tournament in the Middle East,
Speaker 1: Like yeah, I mean, winning this tournament on American soil
Speaker 1: in really what is the biggest Master's one thousand level
Speaker 1: tournament was pretty spectacular. Doing it to beat Eager and
Speaker 1: Arena Seblanca in the final, that's a feat. It is
Speaker 1: quite a feat. You know, obviously Arena is the defending champion.
Speaker 1: This is just like a pretty amazing run from this.
Speaker 2: Our buddy Boschen Function I think, is the one that
Speaker 2: put a tweet out that's basically she just did the
Speaker 2: same thing Madison Keys did to beat the same players.
Speaker 2: So you know, the parody. The great thing is the parody.
Speaker 2: Sometimes everyone's like, oh, yeah, these random winners. You know
Speaker 2: that women's tennis is you know, there's no real leader
Speaker 2: and all that sort of stuff. It's like who cares?
Speaker 2: Like when you've got these great players coming through every
Speaker 2: single week to be all these great players and we
Speaker 2: know how good they are, Like Mira Andreva is going
Speaker 2: to be a perennial top five player. I believe throughout
Speaker 2: her entire career she has you know, she has the hoodspa,
Speaker 2: she has the work ethic, she has the joy in
Speaker 2: her tennis. You know, she loses a shit from time
Speaker 2: to time, which she did in the final, but to
Speaker 2: come through the matches that she did the way she
Speaker 2: did was incredible, and so obviously you know how I feel.
Speaker 2: I've put out a funny tweet about, Oh, I guess
Speaker 2: women can coach, you know, referring to clearly referring to
Speaker 2: Kashida Martinez and you know, some of the great And
Speaker 2: it's funny because being here in Miami, we have a
Speaker 2: I walked into the into the ego underneath the arena,
Speaker 2: right that's where all the locker rooms are and everything.
Speaker 2: And I walked in there and literally the first sign
Speaker 2: I saw to my right was men's coaches locker room,
Speaker 2: and Caitlin, and I tell you, it was in neon lights.
Speaker 2: It was massive. So I looked at my right and
Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, well there's the men's locker room for
Speaker 2: the coaches. Now where's the women's you know. So I'm
Speaker 2: looking around and I'm looking around and looking for that
Speaker 2: Neon sign right and go around the hallway, so you
Speaker 2: imagine underneath a massive stadium. So then you see, you know,
Speaker 2: women's players' locker room, men's players' locker room. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: that's there, and where's the women's locker room. Where's our
Speaker 2: big Neon lights? And so I said to one of
Speaker 2: the women working the tournament who I've known for a
Speaker 2: long time, Hey, you know where's the women's coaches locker
Speaker 2: because I'm looking for that. And she goes, oh, it's
Speaker 2: just down there. You see that little sign that says laundry,
Speaker 2: it's over there on the left. So go in that door.
Speaker 2: So we are opposite the player's laundry area, right, and
Speaker 2: it is the size of a shoe box. I mean
Speaker 2: it's not tiny. I've seen worse. I have to say.
Speaker 2: Sometimes we women coaches get literally a toilet area to
Speaker 2: like go to. So there's like like probably probably about
Speaker 2: eight stalls in there and an open shower and one toilet.
Speaker 2: And I just walked in and I just died. I
Speaker 2: was like, no, women's locker room, big Neon signs up there, No, no, No,
Speaker 2: I know there's clearly a lot more men's coaches, but
Speaker 2: it's just the irony. And so when I was in
Speaker 2: there yesterday, it was quite full actually because and I
Speaker 2: realized there's actually a lot more of us than I
Speaker 2: realized now, Like I go, Radwanska was in there, Kirsten
Speaker 2: Flipkins was in there, Nicole Pratt's in there, I'm in there.
Speaker 2: Of course, hit To Martinez is going to be in there. Zinska,
Speaker 2: the woman who coaches Costchuker's in there. There's a couple
Speaker 2: of the Japanese girls have coaches, women coaches, So it's
Speaker 2: getting more and more. So I just want to shout
Speaker 2: out to the tournaments. It's time to give us a
Speaker 2: bigger locker room. Okay, great, anyway back to my back
Speaker 2: to Indian Wealth.
Speaker 1: No, but I think that's a good indicator. And obviously,
Speaker 1: you know, coming back to Mira Andreva, you know who
Speaker 1: wasn't thrilled to see the positive dynamic, the incredibly thoughtful
Speaker 1: coaching success story that this is in the making. Obviously,
Speaker 1: it's something that you and I have discussed at length
Speaker 1: on this podcast, especially after some of mir Andreva's results
Speaker 1: earlier this season. So if you missed a gushing tribute
Speaker 1: to Kunshidah as well as Renee's like very insightful description
Speaker 1: of how it is that she knows Kenshiitah takes these
Speaker 1: players through their you know, off season preparedness routines and
Speaker 1: pre match routines. It was really insightful and I think,
Speaker 1: you know, obviously hard work pays off, but at the
Speaker 1: heart of it is just like a really really nice
Speaker 1: dynamic between two people who are working together to achieve
Speaker 1: amazing things. And I just want to call out quickly
Speaker 1: before we get to the men, which is in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways like a little bit more of an
Speaker 1: interesting tournament for storylines. The one thing I'll sort of
Speaker 1: say on the women's side is I was a little
Speaker 1: shocked that Jung Chin Win's season has been so poor.
Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting to beat Ego, especially on these slow courts,
Speaker 1: but she really kind of faded, uh. And I wonder,
Speaker 1: you know, she's a player that I really look forward
Speaker 1: to watching. Obviously, these courts are you know, a little
Speaker 1: bit to her favor because they're slower. She's having you know,
Speaker 1: some struggles and it'll be interesting to see what, you know,
Speaker 1: what happens, uh. And I think there's there's some other
Speaker 1: players who are was kind of expecting a little bit
Speaker 1: more from and uh, you know, not your sublankcaus or fountecs.
Speaker 1: But I do wonder, like, what the the separation between
Speaker 1: that top five and everybody else is starting to feel
Speaker 1: pretty significant. And I'm not sure John chin Win is
Speaker 1: in it, but I definitely think you know, Maddie Keys,
Speaker 1: despite a pretty flat semi final performance, definitely earned it.
Speaker 1: She has great matches. But that was a little bit
Speaker 1: of an you know, sometimes people lay an egg and
Speaker 1: turn of flat. That's kind of the downside of playing
Speaker 1: such you know, big tennis. I think. So, I'm not
Speaker 1: really particularly perturbed or worried about that, but I do
Speaker 1: think there's a pretty big gap between the top few
Speaker 1: and the rest, and it seems to be widening.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an interesting take. I hadn't really gone into
Speaker 2: like the x's and o's like that when it came
Speaker 2: to you know, who's having the most success and who's
Speaker 2: really separating himself. But having said that, you listen, Mery
Speaker 2: Andreas certainly put a name into the hat as a
Speaker 2: player that is going to be incredibly tough to beat.
Speaker 2: Maddie Keys clearly look that semi final. How did I
Speaker 2: how do I describe that? I think, look, there was
Speaker 2: there was an opportunity in the very early part of
Speaker 2: the second set. I believe it was one all in
Speaker 2: a second set with Maddie, or it might have even
Speaker 2: been the first game. But anyway, you know when you lose,
Speaker 2: when you win a set or lose a set six love,
Speaker 2: and surprisingly these guys sabal Anka and Keys have had
Speaker 2: a lot of six love or six one sets. It's
Speaker 2: usually Maddie that's putting the six love a six one
Speaker 2: set on Sonca. And then you know, we saw it
Speaker 2: at the us Ophm where it was a six love,
Speaker 2: five three lead for Maddie and then she ended up
Speaker 2: crumpling and losing that. But actually, I will not say crumpling.
Speaker 2: That is not true because as you heard in my
Speaker 2: interview with her, I thought Sabalanka started stepping up and
Speaker 2: playing really, really, really well, which taught Maddie a lesson
Speaker 2: for the Austrain Open final. Because the Austrain Open Final,
Speaker 2: she said, I can't let that happen again. I cannot
Speaker 2: play passively against Sablenka. And there's no question that she
Speaker 2: was stepping up to the play against Sabalanca in Indian wells.
Speaker 2: She just was making the unforced darious that she wasn't
Speaker 2: making this strain open. And also Sabolenka was playing a
Speaker 2: little bit better. But there was a moment in the
Speaker 2: very beginning of the second set where Maddie had a
Speaker 2: break point and I thought that if Maddie win, that
Speaker 2: wins that game. I think I'm not saying she would
Speaker 2: have won, but I would have said that it would
Speaker 2: have been a very, very competitive match. But it was
Speaker 2: a long, long game and she didn't get through it.
Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, the wheels it again,
Speaker 2: turning way too much and Sabolenca, you could see the
Speaker 2: relief over her because she knew how important that game was.
Speaker 2: So there are really even though the score line was
Speaker 2: a thrashing, there are really small little windows in tennis
Speaker 2: matches that can change them really quickly, and that was
Speaker 2: one of them. Because I rewatched it again and I
Speaker 2: thought that moment was huge. Having said that Saballnka played
Speaker 2: the match of a life in the finals, I have
Speaker 2: to say I was so impressed with Mira's ability to
Speaker 2: not crumble after losing the first set, because we saw
Speaker 2: her get pissed off we hit that ball out of
Speaker 2: the crowd. She's funny enough say I'm really sorry about
Speaker 2: how I acted. As you would probably say, I think
Speaker 2: she said in the ceremony, you would call that being
Speaker 2: a brat. I love her honesty. Said, yes, I do
Speaker 2: not like to see that. I do not like to
Speaker 2: see balls being hit out of like that. I do
Speaker 2: not like to see the way eager who has also
Speaker 2: said sorry in her post. But we've got to do
Speaker 2: a bed and listen. This is coming from someone who
Speaker 2: had a really pretty good temper on the court. But
Speaker 2: I was not a real ball hitter out of the court.
Speaker 2: I was more a little bit more of a self
Speaker 2: sabotage to myself. So this hitting balls out of the stadium,
Speaker 2: it's got to stop. I think that that we, the
Speaker 2: tennis administration's, you know, establishments, needs to make some blanket
Speaker 2: rules that if you hit balls into the crowd or
Speaker 2: out of the stadium or things like that, you lose
Speaker 2: a game or you lose something enormous. Maybe not a
Speaker 2: walk over immediately, but it has to be punishable with
Speaker 2: a really big fine or something, because it's the only
Speaker 2: way to stop it. Agree, and I think there's too
Speaker 2: much ambiguity.
Speaker 1: Agree, and I think get away with it. We talked
Speaker 1: about this at length a couple of years ago with
Speaker 1: the nervacuus open issue, and everyone was like, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: but it happened to hit some parts.
Speaker 2: At Wembledon when he hit the ball into the crowd,
Speaker 2: and they said, no, nothing.
Speaker 1: Well me, all abuse is way worse than racket abuse,
Speaker 1: unless you're throwing a racket at somebody, because ball abuse
Speaker 1: can hit people because these balls bounce, obviously. And I
Speaker 1: actually thought EGA's near miss with the ball boy was atrocious.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that she apologized for it. I appreciate that
Speaker 1: you're bringing up mire Andreva. You know, you could see
Speaker 1: the ball kild flinch terrified because the ball was coming
Speaker 1: back at him unexpectedly pretty fast. And keep in mind
Speaker 1: he's working in service of the player. Nobody deserves to
Speaker 1: feel scared at their job ever, ever, Ever, And I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's got to be somewhere between point penalty and a default,
Speaker 1: which obviously you get the deef if you hit somebody,
Speaker 1: but something between that that feels punitive enough to discourage
Speaker 1: it is. Yeah, is that a completely the right move?
Speaker 2: I agree with you. Yeah, look, I think that I
Speaker 2: think that Ego was hitting the ball in the direction
Speaker 2: of her players box. I think that's what the intention was.
Speaker 2: She was mad. We saw that with Novak. I think
Speaker 2: he was hitting the ball in the direction of his
Speaker 2: players box back at the US Open, because if you remember,
Speaker 2: it was during the COVID where the player's box was
Speaker 2: in a little bit of a different area, and I
Speaker 2: think he was like pinging it up there towards them
Speaker 2: and obviously hit the lines. Lady, And you know Steph
Speaker 2: sister pass hit that ball. He hit a ball at
Speaker 2: d C. I've told this story on the pod many
Speaker 2: times where he hit a ball into the crowd and
Speaker 2: a guy caught the ball and it was flying. He
Speaker 2: hit it the way Mira Andreva hit it, which was
Speaker 2: very very direct, and a guy caught it. And I
Speaker 2: said to the referee, who was literally sitting next to
Speaker 2: me watching the match, no warning. He didn't even get
Speaker 2: a warning. And the referee said to me, well, you know,
Speaker 2: the guy caught it. I was like, what what what
Speaker 2: has that got to do with a fine or a warning?
Speaker 2: Like are you kidding? Because the guy caught it. What
Speaker 2: if a girl, little girl is seven years of age.
Speaker 2: It's heading right towards her head. We're hoping that she
Speaker 2: catches it. So it's like we got to do.
Speaker 1: With ambiguous and before we get to before we get
Speaker 1: to Miami, let's talk about the men. I thought, gooday, wait, wait,
Speaker 1: wait wait wait.
Speaker 2: Let me just finish one thing on mirror. To get
Speaker 2: absolutely smashed by a player in straight sets without even
Speaker 2: a contest like two and three, three and two. The
Speaker 2: two times that she has lost her this year in Australia.
Speaker 2: Once in Australia, Oh no, twice in Australia, I believe,
Speaker 2: once in Brisbane, once in Melbourne, and then to get
Speaker 2: smashed in the first set in the biggest final of
Speaker 2: her career and have the Huitzba to like hang in
Speaker 2: there and step that up. She hit that winner to
Speaker 2: break serve in the second set, and you saw that
Speaker 2: come on from her. She was putting her line in
Speaker 2: the sand. Not today. You are not kicking my butt today.
Speaker 2: And that to me as a seventeen year old when
Speaker 2: I saw the school line, because I was in Miami,
Speaker 2: I was actually on the practice court when she was playing.
Speaker 2: I ended up subsequently watching the match. I was like,
Speaker 2: this kid is special, not to refuse to get crushed
Speaker 2: again by arguably the best hardcot player we've seen in many,
Speaker 2: many years. Was so impressive, the way she stepped up
Speaker 2: her game. I'm just I am blown away how special
Speaker 2: this kid is. And I know everyone and the joke.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've seen it, Caitlin, I do.
Speaker 2: I'm still on Twitter, which I'm still trying to get
Speaker 2: off of, but I did put a funny tweet out
Speaker 2: when Jack Draper beat Carlos Archiaz and this is what
Speaker 2: people don't understand about my irony and my being an Australian.
Speaker 2: I just wrote immediately afterwards, Jack Draper is going to
Speaker 2: win Wimbledon, and it was just I'm kind of joking, right,
Speaker 2: you know my humor, and I just love the English
Speaker 2: getting all pumped up with this guy who's winning a
Speaker 2: major title and he's beaten out Christ. I'm like, he's
Speaker 2: gonna win Wimbledon. So I just wrote Jack Draper's gonna
Speaker 2: win Wimbledon. The amount of people that wrote me on
Speaker 2: this tweet, no, he's not. He's not even good on
Speaker 2: grasp well, first of all, he's won title on grass,
Speaker 2: so that's horseshit. If I could go through line by
Speaker 2: line the amount of people write that wrote me on
Speaker 2: Twitter about this. I'm like, guys, it's not that serious.
Speaker 2: Calm down, stop putting pressure on him. What are you
Speaker 2: talking about? Blah blah blah. I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: he just beat the two times of ending Wimbledon champions.
Speaker 2: So I just sort of said he's gonna win Wimbledon
Speaker 2: as a joke. But my god, Jack don't win Wimbledon.
Speaker 2: So I can literally put that tweet back up. And
Speaker 2: then as a joke when Miro Andreva won, guess what
Speaker 2: I wrote Caitlin on Twitters.
Speaker 1: Got to win Wimbledon's.
Speaker 2: Mirror andreve is gonna win Wimbledon. And then of course
Speaker 2: litany of people again writing me, what are you talking about?
Speaker 2: She lost in the first round last year, she can't
Speaker 2: play on grant. I'm like, oh my god, you people
Speaker 2: just don't understand humor. And also she can win Wimbledon
Speaker 2: because her serve has gotten so much better and her
Speaker 2: ability to plan any surface. Just wait, now, did I
Speaker 2: say that they were gonna both gonna win wiledon We'll see,
Speaker 2: we'll see.
Speaker 1: I mean that's on you for being on Twitter. So
Speaker 1: I feel like if you want to spend your energy
Speaker 1: on that space, then that is your choice, and you're
Speaker 1: gonna get a whole lot of nonsense because everyone's just
Speaker 1: sitting there waiting to have their feelings hurt. Which you know, if.
Speaker 2: I had one guy, I had one guy. Caitlyn came
Speaker 2: after me and said, oh, what are you talking about.
Speaker 2: He's got to win seven matches to win a Grand
Speaker 2: Slam and best of five and I'm like, really.
Speaker 3: This is what you deserve. So but let's talk about
Speaker 3: Let's talk about Jack Draper.
Speaker 1: I thought Runa match was disappointing only because I know
Speaker 1: Runa had played a great tournament. I got to watch
Speaker 1: him a lot early.
Speaker 3: I love his game.
Speaker 1: It's so explosive and he's such a character. I watched
Speaker 1: him play Quarantine mute at an outer court and I
Speaker 1: like the personalities, as you know, and to me, I
Speaker 1: think he played a little bit flat, which is not
Speaker 1: to take anything away from Jack Draper, who obviously came
Speaker 1: through the much much harder test of Carlito's alcoraz On.
Speaker 2: The way in I saw him, I was in the
Speaker 2: players area. I was on the second floor, he was
Speaker 2: on the bottom floor, and there's this area in the
Speaker 2: players little area where the locker rooms are where they
Speaker 2: have the defending champions photos up there, the singles and
Speaker 2: the doubles, which is nice that they put the doubles
Speaker 2: up there. And I saw him. He was old by himself,
Speaker 2: and he looked up and he took his phone out
Speaker 2: and he took a photo of it. I was above
Speaker 2: him and I was looking down, and I told him
Speaker 2: because I saw him the next day so sleep taking
Speaker 2: a photo. He goes, oh, you know you have to
Speaker 2: take a photo. Oh he's so cute, So I mean,
Speaker 2: come on.
Speaker 1: But I think what I liked about his reaction to
Speaker 1: his loss. And a couple of people, you know, on
Speaker 1: the internet took issue with this, like they were like
Speaker 1: he was making excuses. I actually don't think he was
Speaker 1: making excuses. I think he was taking accountability, which is
Speaker 1: I didn't play that well, I didn't practice that well.
Speaker 1: I didn't feel like myself, which everyone who's ever played, frankly,
Speaker 1: any sport, much less tennis, knows sometimes you go out
Speaker 1: there and you just don't feel yourself. And I think that,
Speaker 1: to me is an understanding, not in any way to
Speaker 1: take away from your opponent, but just just to sort
Speaker 1: of say like, hey, I know I'm capable of more.
Speaker 1: I didn't show up to my fullest capability, and like
Speaker 1: this gives me stuff to work on going forward, which
Speaker 1: again is sort of an approach. I really like that. Said, like,
Speaker 1: Jack Draper is so fun for tennis. He's fun at
Speaker 1: the top of the game. He's extremely charismatic. I like
Speaker 1: his swaggy sort of approach. And to me, you know,
Speaker 1: the storylines coming out of the men's side were really
Speaker 1: exciting in this tournament. I thought they were. I thought
Speaker 1: we had a great couple of last rounds with you know, Mehdi,
Speaker 1: with with Runa and you know, obviously with Carlitosen and
Speaker 1: Jack as our semi finalists. Like it was exciting and dynamic,
Speaker 1: and I feel like the men now finally we have
Speaker 1: some parody. I got to watch Novak Djokovic early. He
Speaker 1: lost in a bizarre showing, which, you know, if you're
Speaker 1: Andy Murray, I don't know what you are sort of
Speaker 1: saying to Novak, do you have any idea what that
Speaker 1: approach is? Right now? Novak seems like, you know, out
Speaker 1: of sorts.
Speaker 2: You know, again, I thought, you know, I get to
Speaker 2: I'm lucky because you know, being on the road. Now coaching,
Speaker 2: I get to see a lot of behind the scenes stuff.
Speaker 2: And Novak Djokovic has always been the type of person
Speaker 2: who literally breaks down everything to the minutia, like we
Speaker 2: are talking food, diet, training, hyperbaric chambers, travels with you know,
Speaker 2: specific things. He just is always looking for the edge, right,
Speaker 2: which is great. It's what has made him great. He's
Speaker 2: always looking for that extra edge. And to watch him
Speaker 2: yesterday on the grassed area of the Dolphin Stadium, so
Speaker 2: you know where Cena coord is in Miami, all the
Speaker 2: players are out there sort of doing their warm ups
Speaker 2: and Novak was out there doing his warm up and
Speaker 2: I saw him standing over there. They were about maybe
Speaker 2: twenty meters away from me, sixty feet away from me,
Speaker 2: and he's standing there talking to Andy about something on
Speaker 2: his forehand. And the amount of times that I'd seen
Speaker 2: him do that on a practice court or off of
Speaker 2: the court. He just is just that a session with
Speaker 2: wanting to be better and make something better. And I
Speaker 2: know that Andy is also into the minutia of everything tennis,
Speaker 2: whether it be his rackets, his strings, the way this,
Speaker 2: or the way that. So I don't know, I don't
Speaker 2: know if it's a good combination in some ways because
Speaker 2: they're both so TechEd nicol and so like Granular. I
Speaker 2: don't know, it's an interesting situation. I think. In the end,
Speaker 2: and I've said this for a year, and I'll give
Speaker 2: a lot of credit to Andrea Pekovich, at some point
Speaker 2: you hit an age where things just get harder. And
Speaker 2: at thirty eight years of age, you get that little
Speaker 2: bit slower, You get that little bit nor more nervous,
Speaker 2: you get that lack of You got that little bit
Speaker 2: more lack. I don't even know how to put it.
Speaker 2: You get less confident. And he hasn't won a tournament
Speaker 2: since he won the Olympics last year, and he won
Speaker 2: one tournament last year. And I don't care who you
Speaker 2: are or how great you are. Just like Serena coming
Speaker 2: to the end of her career, winning matches felt really big.
Speaker 2: And I feel like Novak, as great as he played
Speaker 2: in Australia, that injury really hurt him and it might
Speaker 2: all turn around by the time and of course Wimbledon
Speaker 2: comes around, which we know he's the best player in
Speaker 2: the world on over the last ten to fifteen years,
Speaker 2: even though Carlos has got him the last couple of times,
Speaker 2: it's like, I just think it's getting harder, and I
Speaker 2: just think he's losing confidence. And I don't care who's
Speaker 2: in your corner, whether it be Annie Murray or Jesus
Speaker 2: Christ superstar. You got to do it yourself. You got
Speaker 2: to convince yourself you're still good enough to win these matches. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and these guys are only getting better and better and better,
Speaker 2: I can. The key is that these players, they are
Speaker 2: starting to realize that he's not invincible. And that's the
Speaker 2: key as well. The mental victory for these players is
Speaker 2: not as hard. So physically he's getting a little bit
Speaker 2: less and mentally a little less, and these players are
Speaker 2: getting a little stronger and they feel like they can
Speaker 2: beat him now, and that is massive.
Speaker 1: I don't see him winning Miami, which is my way
Speaker 1: of transitioning us over to the second half of the
Speaker 1: Sunshine Double at the Miaomi Miami Open, which is where
Speaker 1: you now find yourself. I might try to get down
Speaker 1: there towards the end of the tournament, just because you know,
Speaker 1: I like the humid either, yes, and I like sunshine,
Speaker 1: and it's still very cold up here in New York.
Speaker 1: But what are you thinking in terms of the first
Speaker 1: half of the Sunshine Double setting us up for the
Speaker 1: second half. Do you see anybody going to be able
Speaker 1: to sort of put in strong performances back to back
Speaker 1: or is this going to kind of be a dealer's
Speaker 1: choice of you know, wild outcomes just in another direction
Speaker 1: in another week and a half.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we might get two completely different winners
Speaker 2: this week. I don't see Jack Draper going back to back.
Speaker 2: I think that's going to be really, really hard for him.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying he's not capable, you know, clearly, I
Speaker 2: think he's gonna win Wimbledon. So jokes, people jokes, but
Speaker 2: I do think that. God, I hope you wins. I'll
Speaker 2: look like a legend. But I think that it's very, very,
Speaker 2: very hard to win Sunshine Double. They are completely different
Speaker 2: feelings on the court. Not only are they different the surfaces.
Speaker 2: This is a little bit quicker here in Miami. The
Speaker 2: humidity makes the world a difference to how the ball
Speaker 2: plays as well. And guess what, it's a different ball.
Speaker 2: So last week we had Wilson, I believe, is it Wilson, Yes, Wilson.
Speaker 2: This week dune Lot, completely different ball. It gets dead
Speaker 2: as a doornail. After three or four games, we've got
Speaker 2: We've had the worst wind for three days here in Miami,
Speaker 2: so that's also a factor. Yes, we had winded India
Speaker 2: wells as well, so the players are just probably like, oh,
Speaker 2: this fucking wins. Like there's just nothing worse than playing
Speaker 2: in wind when you're a tennis player or a golfer
Speaker 2: or anything outside. But I do see two different people
Speaker 2: winning this tournament. I think it's very, very hard to
Speaker 2: do the Sunshine double. We'll see if you know sable
Speaker 2: Anka can come back and back it up here. Can
Speaker 2: an American do something special the women's side, whether it
Speaker 2: be Jaspagul or Mattie Keys, can she bounce back? I
Speaker 2: hope Mattie Keys looks at that match and just like
Speaker 2: literally just throws it away and just says, look, first
Speaker 2: loss of the year. Who cares. Sable Anca got crushed
Speaker 2: by rebarking a couple of years ago in Brisbane, same
Speaker 2: score line, and then went on and won the Australian Open,
Speaker 2: So you can have days like that. So I hope
Speaker 2: that maybe Maddie comes back and has an even better
Speaker 2: tournament in Miami, because I think clearly she practices in Florida.
Speaker 2: So she's used for the conditions. So so we'll see
Speaker 2: there rebarking our breakthrough. I don't know. I think al
Speaker 2: Choraz might be the one. He gets a tremendous amount
Speaker 2: of support here in Miami. He gets support everywhere he goes.
Speaker 2: What do you back in the draw here?
Speaker 3: What do you think?
Speaker 1: A man curious? I wish she wouldn't, to be honest,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty over the neurious experience. Eh. Just you know,
Speaker 1: Oh you don't care? Cool me neither. Keep a moment next,
Speaker 1: h You know who I would love to see do well? Who? Also,
Speaker 1: to your point about training in the South Florida humid,
Speaker 1: you know thick con conditions is Cocoa Goff.
Speaker 2: What do you think about Coco?
Speaker 1: How do you? How do you? And this is kind
Speaker 1: of what I meant about talking about the disparity between
Speaker 1: the top few players and the rest of the field.
Speaker 1: It feels to me a little bit And I love Coco,
Speaker 1: So this isn't a diss It's just it feels to
Speaker 1: me that the IgA Sebele Anka, Matty Keys, Mirror, Andreva
Speaker 1: Cohort has pulled ahead a little bit of your Jess Bagoulas,
Speaker 1: your Cocoa, goffs, your jun Cheng wins, you're like kind
Speaker 1: of bottom half of the big of the top ten,
Speaker 1: and beyond Coco is somebody who has been in both
Speaker 1: groups as his jess Maybe this is harsh, I don't know,
Speaker 1: but like it's I'd love to see Jessica or Coco
Speaker 1: go deep and I don't know what their state of
Speaker 1: their games is right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, look, Coco is so unique because when
Speaker 2: she's great, she's so great, and then she's you know, unfortunately,
Speaker 2: and she's talking, she talked about it, impressed. She's like, look,
Speaker 2: I started the year really well, United Cup, all these things.
Speaker 2: But look, you know, I'll say it again. You know,
Speaker 2: her technique fails under pressure at times and when you're
Speaker 2: playing outside, and a lot of her success at the
Speaker 2: end of last year and even at the beginning of
Speaker 2: this year was played indoors, and so there's no wind,
Speaker 2: there's no sun, there's no variables, and when you have
Speaker 2: bad even you have technique that's questionable at times, whether
Speaker 2: it be the second serve and the service motion and
Speaker 2: the service script and all that sort of stuff. And
Speaker 2: the forehand, it's like when there's wind and when there's
Speaker 2: natural things going on around you, it affects your game more.
Speaker 2: And so look, she practices in this all the time.
Speaker 2: She practices and lives in Delray Beach area, so she's
Speaker 2: getting wind all the time, so she should be used
Speaker 2: to it. But you know, speaking of seeing people behind
Speaker 2: the scenes, Look, I adore Coco Gough. I think she
Speaker 2: is the nicest kid. She is so personable when you
Speaker 2: see her. We talk about her thing that she invested
Speaker 2: in Unrivaled Basketball, which is here in Miami, and I
Speaker 2: went and saw it the other day and we just,
Speaker 2: you know, we get along really well and we talk
Speaker 2: and I hate talking about her critically because I think
Speaker 2: she's just such a special person. But it is my
Speaker 2: job to also try and teach people why, right, why
Speaker 2: she doesn't have the success so they think she should.
Speaker 2: And that's why her technique on her forehand and stuff
Speaker 2: is always going to be a problem for her going forward.
Speaker 2: So it's a matter of can she get over those humps.
Speaker 2: Can she get through the tough three sets match, which
Speaker 2: she didn't last week, And we'll see, She's going to
Speaker 2: have unbelievable support here in Miami, and maybe this is
Speaker 2: the breakthrough that she needs going into the clay, which
Speaker 2: we know she plays well on so totally, I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's a work in progress. It's going to be a
Speaker 2: work in progress with the forehand and with the serf
Speaker 2: going forward for the rest of her career. And when
Speaker 2: she loses, that is why she's going to lose. So
Speaker 2: it's that's why we always talk about it. You know,
Speaker 2: Mattie Keith, Why did she lose? Well, we've talked about
Speaker 2: it for a long time about her anxiety and going
Speaker 2: for too much and all that sort of stuff. So everyone,
Speaker 2: no one, no one's immune from being criticized, not criticized,
Speaker 2: but understanding why they lose, Yeah, for sure, And that's
Speaker 2: why she loses. I So we'll see.
Speaker 1: I want to end this on one or two more
Speaker 1: names that I think people who listen to this podcast
Speaker 1: are probably curious about, who we haven't talked about so much.
Speaker 1: Pretty recently you mentioned a curious There's a reason we
Speaker 1: haven't talked about him because he's not really playing tennisee often.
Speaker 1: We'll see what happens in Miami. We know he's going
Speaker 1: to be at all the parties and brand appearances, and
Speaker 1: then probably nothing else. Naomi Osaka. She's also been a
Speaker 1: ton of brand work, but not a ton of court
Speaker 1: work in the last like year or two since coming
Speaker 1: back from attorney leave. You know, get that bag on
Speaker 1: one hand, On the other hand, like, how emotionally invested
Speaker 1: do I need to be in the Nemeasaka come back,
Speaker 1: especially when she hares and has the team around her
Speaker 1: that she does. I don't know. I can't tell you.
Speaker 1: I'm tremendously emotionally invested, but hard to imagine she shows
Speaker 1: up in a big way. And then daniel Collins, who
Speaker 1: won this tournament last year, who you know, is a
Speaker 1: fan vector of emotions. I love her, but also she's
Speaker 1: a little bit more like, you know, like a lot
Speaker 1: of people with strong personalities, myself included. You know, we're
Speaker 1: not for everybody.
Speaker 2: But yeah, daniel I'll tell you what I coached against
Speaker 2: her in doubles last week in Indian Wells in the
Speaker 2: first round. And I don't know if that's the much
Speaker 2: you were at. Now you're at the second round and
Speaker 2: they loved her there. Oh my god. The moment she
Speaker 2: stepped on court, the crowd in Indian Wells was like
Speaker 2: could not get enough of Danielle Collins. So I think
Speaker 2: you said it right. You either love her or you
Speaker 2: hate her. There's no in between, there's.
Speaker 1: No yeah, you can't.
Speaker 2: You love it or you hate her. Yep, And so
Speaker 2: it'll be this is obviously a completely huge week for her.
Speaker 2: I'll get to her before I get to Naomi because
Speaker 2: Daniel Collins clearly is the defending champion, So she has
Speaker 2: a tremendous amount of points coming off the calendar's ranking
Speaker 2: this week and in two weeks time, because she won
Speaker 2: Charleston as well, So the majority of her points are
Speaker 2: coming off if she doesn't defend them. So for people
Speaker 2: that don't understand the ranking, the way it works, it's
Speaker 2: a twelve month rotation of points. Your points go off
Speaker 2: the week, that same week the next year. Let's say
Speaker 2: Miami didn't happen, you would lose your points. It's like
Speaker 2: too bad, or if you got injured, too bad. So
Speaker 2: she either has to win this tournament or she will
Speaker 2: drop in the rankings, and same with Charleston. So she's
Speaker 2: under a tremendous amount of pressure to do well. She's
Speaker 2: the one that decided to come back and play another year,
Speaker 2: and so a lot is a lot is going to
Speaker 2: drive I think her future in the next three weeks,
Speaker 2: so we'll see how she does. Clearly she loves playing
Speaker 2: in Miami. In Miami, she's a Florida girl, Saint Petersburg, Florida.
Speaker 2: She's used to the weather, she's used to the wind,
Speaker 2: and so I expected to have a pretty good tournament.
Speaker 2: We'll see how she goes. Naomi Osaka, she has a
Speaker 2: tough she has a stard oops of the first round.
Speaker 2: I see her getting through that, and then she plays
Speaker 2: sam Sonova in the second round. That is going to
Speaker 2: be a big hitting affair. She can get through sam Sonova,
Speaker 2: We'll see because that is an opportunity for her to
Speaker 2: maybe get the confidence. And she's in Casakina section there,
Speaker 2: so I see her hitting at Casakina off the court.
Speaker 2: If she plays well, it's always in Naomi's hands how
Speaker 2: well she plays. But at the same time, you got
Speaker 2: to get through these players. They're going to make a
Speaker 2: lot of balls and make you play. And when she
Speaker 2: played Osorio in the first round of Indian Wells, my
Speaker 2: first thought was, Ooh, that's not a good draw for her,
Speaker 2: because so Sorrio makes a gazillion balls and will make
Speaker 2: you play. And so there's a lot of pressure on
Speaker 2: you to hit winners, so if you're not super confident,
Speaker 2: whereas sam Sonova, for example, is going to hit winners
Speaker 2: or make mistakes. So it's an interesting juxtapose for her there.
Speaker 2: You know who's going to get the first strike. I
Speaker 2: don't know. She's a Miami girl herself. She grew up
Speaker 2: in the Boca area Delray area as well, so she's
Speaker 2: used to these conditions. We'll see. It'd be nice for
Speaker 2: her to break through, but I think it's becoming a
Speaker 2: little bit like Novak, harder and harder to get the
Speaker 2: confidence back. And I don't care who you are and
Speaker 2: how great a career you've had. At some point, when
Speaker 2: you lose your confidence, it's hard to get it back
Speaker 2: unless you break through that wall. And that wall is
Speaker 2: getting harder and harder and thicker and thicker because the
Speaker 2: players are so good around her.
Speaker 1: You know, the parting fart I'll share here, and then
Speaker 1: I've got to let you get back to your coaching
Speaker 1: duties and I got to run around here. You know
Speaker 1: who would be great in Naomi's bucks to Novak steps
Speaker 1: to Sade is Andy Murray.
Speaker 2: No way, I would love to for Andy Murray I
Speaker 2: want Andy Murray to spend two years at home and
Speaker 2: feel like I feel like with four kids at home,
Speaker 2: I feel like he feels like that's like solitary confinement,
Speaker 2: to be home with his four kids and his wife. Like, dude,
Speaker 2: I love you. I love Andy Murray so much. He
Speaker 2: knows how much I love him. But my god, these
Speaker 2: blokes they just like to be on the road. Family.
Speaker 2: Go see.
Speaker 1: I know I'm serious, and be like, not on my watch.
Speaker 1: She doesn't want tobe. She's just like, get out of Andy.
Speaker 2: The reason we have four kids, the reason we're still
Speaker 2: married is because you're never okay. You know, oh Renee substairs.
Speaker 2: Andy Murray doesn't spend enough time with his kids, That'll
Speaker 2: be the thing that will be the headline. And then
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to be like, oh my god. It's
Speaker 2: kind of like, well, you're doing this to your sad
Speaker 2: Draper is gonna win get it too much.
Speaker 1: You're doing it to yourself.
Speaker 3: So are usual?
Speaker 2: All right? Talk to you today, Thanks everybody, and we'll
Speaker 2: see you with a wrap up maybe a midweek mid week. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and we'll give you all the lockdown of Miami. All right, guys,
Speaker 2: We'll see you next week bye,