1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: Hey, y'all, Eve's here. I know you're ready to get 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: into this episode, but really quick. We have been loving 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: connecting with y'all over black storytelling, and if you've really 4 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:11,560 Speaker 1: been loving the show, then we would really appreciate it 5 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: if you would leave us a rating and review, subscribe 6 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: to the show, and share it with your friends. 7 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:18,080 Speaker 2: Thanks y'all. Now time for the episode. 8 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:22,920 Speaker 1: On theme is a production of iHeartRadio and fair Weather 9 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: Friends Media. 10 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 3: Take my bit. 11 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 4: Okay, say cheese cheez. Let me see mm hm, I 12 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 4: like that. Try it again. 13 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:01,279 Speaker 2: Okay, okay, how about this one. I don't think it's 14 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 2: really capturing me, but you're literally right there though. 15 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 5: Me as in my essence what I want to say 16 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 5: to the world through my likeness me. 17 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 2: Okay, So what do you want the picture to say? 18 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 4: I wanted to say, there she go, and she begin 19 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 4: to it when she goes, you. 20 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: Know, black people be saying a whole lot and they'll 21 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: be saying nothing. 22 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:25,479 Speaker 2: But okay, I got it. 23 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 5: So let's try this again. See that's perfect. I'm Katie 24 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 5: and I'm Eves. 25 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 4: In today's episode, Pixel power. 26 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 5: Photos are always saying something A thousand somethings. As a 27 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 5: popular quote goes, and when photography and political movements mix, 28 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 5: maybe those pictures talk. So today on our show, we're 29 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 5: taking it back to the abolitionist movement and the anti 30 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 5: apartheid movement, looking through the viewfinder at specific ways photography 31 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 5: can be used for good and evil. 32 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,959 Speaker 2: Act one, the most photographed man? 33 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 4: Who do you think is the most photographed man today? 34 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: So the first person that comes to mind for me 35 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: is Barack Obama, even though he's not president anymore, So 36 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: I guess the current president, So Joe Biden. 37 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 4: I guess you think photograph? 38 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 2: I don't because I feel like Obama had more photographs. 39 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Right? 40 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 4: Who wants to look at him? 41 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 2: Nobody? But my thing is the White House. 42 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: They have official photographers, So I say that the most 43 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 1: photograph because they're photographed on purpose. And obviously I'm thinking 44 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: an A and American centric way. So I'm thinking about 45 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 1: US federal government and I'm thinking about the office of 46 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 1: the president. So my first guess is Obama, and then 47 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: my second guess is just whoever the current president is, 48 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: which is now Biden? Wait, who do you think is 49 00:02:57,639 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: the most photographed person today? 50 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 4: See, I would sink like maybe Kim Kardashian. 51 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 5: But then I was like, because people are like always 52 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 5: taking pictures, it literally could be just like a random 53 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 5: kid in Ohio to get about the pictures of themselves, 54 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 5: they take a million pictures of themselves. Like most photographed 55 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 5: person in the world. 56 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess I also didn't include like self photography. 57 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 2: I wasn't include selfies. 58 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 4: Yeah. 59 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 2: In my thinking on this. 60 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 4: Could literally be anybody. 61 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 2: So we were really trying to find out who's the 62 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 2: most narcissistic person in the world. 63 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 5: Well, you know, maybe most creative. Maybe they put no 64 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 5: shoots m h okay, that's a very diplomatic way to 65 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 5: put it. Yeah, with most folks carrying around a camera 66 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 5: at all times, it might be hard to know who 67 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 5: is the single most photographed person today, But that absolutely 68 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 5: was not the case in the eighteen hundreds. In the 69 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 5: nineteenth century, no American was photographed more than Frederick Douglas, 70 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 5: with more than one hundred and sixty known portraits. Douglas 71 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 5: had more pictures taken of him during his lifetime than 72 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 5: Abraham Lincoln and Walt Whitman. 73 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 4: And this was no accident. 74 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 5: Douglas, an escaped slave who became a renowned abolitionist, and 75 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 5: author understood the power of photography and saw the revolutionary 76 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 5: technology as an avenue to challenge racists, caricatures and stereotypes 77 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 5: about black people that were abundant in. 78 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 4: American visual culture. Eves, can you describe this photo of Douglas. 79 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: So it's a black and white photo, and Douglas is 80 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,280 Speaker 1: kind of looking off into the side. He's dressed up 81 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 1: in nice clothes. He looks very stern, his lips are 82 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: kind of downturned. He's very seriously focused, and he looks like, 83 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 1: you know, he's about business, basically. 84 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 4: About his beasis. Truly. 85 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 5: Yeah, And for anyone who has ever cracked open a 86 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 5: US history book, the image Eve's described is floating in 87 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 5: your head right now, partly because he took a lot 88 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 5: of his pictures like this. By posing for these portraits, 89 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 5: Douglas presented the world with an image of a dignified, 90 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 5: well dressed black man, a stark contrast to the degrading 91 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 5: to pictures that were common, and he carefully curated this 92 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 5: public image, ensuring he was always well groomed, always dressed formally, 93 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 5: and always projecting an air a sophistication. 94 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 1: If you listen to our past episodes, Bona fide blackface 95 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: or we might regret this episode later. You'll recall that 96 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: American media often depicted black people as silly, simple folks, 97 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: just their fault white folk's amusement. 98 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 4: But Douglas troubled that notion. 99 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 5: He once said he never wanted to look like a happy, amiable, 100 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 5: fugitive slave. 101 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 2: He a statement, why are he bagging? 102 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: Why is he bagging on slaves like that they can 103 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 1: be happy? 104 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 2: Well, I think. 105 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 5: The thing is like, no one really looked like that. Yeah, 106 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 5: it was there putting out like nobody was looking like that. Yeah, 107 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 5: but he was like, let me make sure I don't 108 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,799 Speaker 5: look like that. I ain't gonna smile. I'm not gonna 109 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 5: crack a one smile. And it's shit funny. 110 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: It's just funny as an isolated sentiment to be like 111 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: taking it out of context like that. 112 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 5: Yeah, his photos, they were confrontational. The stirred eyes that 113 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 5: you mentioned, the unsmiling mouth, the playing background. A lot 114 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 5: of his pictures ain't no little Doiley's in the back. 115 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 5: He's like, keep your eyes on me, on my face, 116 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 5: and he described it as the face of the fugitive slave. 117 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: Douglas was well aware of the importance of controlling his 118 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: image and as a famous writer and orator. He used 119 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: his photographs to gain subscribers for his abolitionist newspaper, The 120 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 1: North Star, and he would also hand out pictures of 121 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,840 Speaker 1: himself along with his letters, speeches and essays. 122 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 5: He saw photography as quote the most democratic of the arts. 123 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 5: In a lecture he delivered in Boston in eighteen sixty one, 124 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:34,799 Speaker 5: he said, what. 125 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,239 Speaker 1: Was once the exclusive luxury of the rich and great 126 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,679 Speaker 1: is now within reach of all the humblest servant. Girl 127 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 1: whose income is but a few shillings per week may 128 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:47,239 Speaker 1: now possess a more perfect likeness of herself the noble 129 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: ladies and even royalty with all its precious treasures, could 130 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 1: purchase fifty years ago. 131 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 5: Yeah, so basically just saying how photography really kind of 132 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 5: even the playing field in his eyes is interesting to me. 133 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 5: And the reason why photography got really accessible during this 134 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 5: time is because the picture used to be printed on metal, 135 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 5: and it used it switched to being printed on paper, 136 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 5: and of course paper was like more abundant and easier 137 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 5: to print on. But I really thought it's interesting to 138 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 5: call it the most democratic of the arts, as someone 139 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 5: who used to be enslaved like slavery is like the 140 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 5: very antithesis of democracy, you know, and so him seeing 141 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 5: photography as like the antithesis in a way of slavery, 142 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 5: and like he's able to put his image out there 143 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 5: and really change people's minds based on his image, Like 144 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 5: he like looked so serious and so dignified. People were like, 145 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 5: he's lying. He wasn't even a slave before. People didn't 146 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 5: believe it because his image that he put out. He 147 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 5: had the newspaper and he was going around writing these speeches, 148 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 5: like giving these speeches. People were like, ain't no way 149 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 5: because of the images that we see, you know, like 150 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 5: the minstrel shows, like that's what a slave is. 151 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 4: So I was like, he ate that. He really ate 152 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 4: that description. What did you think of it? 153 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: Well, I have a question for you, which is that 154 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: I'm curious about your take on who his intended audience 155 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: was for in his thinking around like presenting himself in 156 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: this way. Was it for other black people to be 157 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: like this is who you are, this is who you 158 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: really are and you can see yourself this way. 159 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 2: Or was it for non black people? I think it 160 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 2: was both. 161 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 5: So, like in the quote where he's talking about like 162 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 5: the humble servant girl being able to see herself because 163 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 5: like you know how they say the camera don't lie 164 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 5: a little timpanals or something, but they gonna lie. It's 165 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 5: gonna show you what you like really look like. And 166 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 5: if you have people like always saying like you're subhuman, 167 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 5: like you're not as good as me, like you're you know, 168 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 5: an animal really, and then you look at this image 169 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,559 Speaker 5: and you're like, wait a minute, I'm not who they 170 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 5: said I was. And they also can see this black 171 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 5: man who is very black, you know, like you know 172 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 5: sometimes people be back in the days for saying they black, 173 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 5: but they like, you know, one sixteenth black, but this 174 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 5: man black, Okay, like ain't no question. So like they 175 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 5: can see this black man and be like, oh, like 176 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 5: he has this picture, he's like dressing these nice clothes, 177 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 5: he's like giving all these lectures. 178 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 4: So I definitely think it was for black people. 179 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 5: But then also when people were wanting to know about 180 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 5: abolition and you know, what should we do as a country, 181 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 5: people were coming to him people, you know, as powerful 182 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 5: as a president of the United States, he was advising 183 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 5: Abraham Lincoln. When Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation, he 184 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 5: was like very well read, well written, well spoken, and 185 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 5: well photographed. He had the most photographs out, so I 186 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 5: think it was twofold. And so, like you said, he 187 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 5: had the North Star and that was a way to 188 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 5: get the message out, and he was printing his picture 189 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 5: in there every time, like hey, like this is an 190 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,719 Speaker 5: abolitions newspaper. These are our thoughts about anti slavery. This 191 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 5: is what it would look like. This is what would 192 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 5: happened going forward, like really laying out the cause, like 193 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,839 Speaker 5: the moral objections and just laying it out for people 194 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 5: to be able to read. And like you know, newspapers 195 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 5: they just popping back then he puts up a newspaper. 196 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 5: Now maybe people did even read it, but people's reading 197 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 5: those newspapers listening to his speeches. He was handing out 198 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 5: little cars of his picture like yeah. Henry Lewis Gates 199 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 5: called him like the social media influencer of his day, 200 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 5: and I was like, that's really true, because he was 201 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 5: using a relatively new technology to get his message out 202 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 5: and like spread you know, his own propaganda, which was 203 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 5: anti slavery. 204 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 1: And he does look serious in the photo, but it 205 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: does also strike me as a very artistically composed photo 206 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: as well. This one that I'm looking at and described 207 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 1: earlier of him looking off into the side. There's just 208 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: something about it that seems pretty thoughtfully composed, and it 209 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:33,719 Speaker 1: makes me think about our previous episode in which we 210 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: talked about James Vandersey and his death portraits and this 211 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: being kind of like something that preceded that, Like, this 212 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: is James Vandersey used his portraits to talk about death, 213 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: and this is about life. This is about what kind 214 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: of lives black people had in the truth and authenticity of. 215 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 2: What black life looked like. 216 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:54,079 Speaker 1: And Frederick Douglass showed that through his photos without having 217 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: to say it, because a statement of it being the 218 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: most democratic of the arts is very telling when and 219 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: there are so many other arts that Black people did 220 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 1: express themselves through, a really big one of them being writing, 221 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: and a lot of people didn't have access to that though, 222 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: so a lot of people weren't able to read or 223 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,079 Speaker 1: weren't able to write back in that time. 224 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, this photograph is like telling a story, even if 225 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 5: you're illiterate exactly. And going back to your question about 226 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,959 Speaker 5: if he was targeting black people or white people, he 227 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 5: also was a big recruiter for the Union Army former 228 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 5: slaves or I think maybe even they were still slaves, 229 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 5: but yeah, to join the Union Army and fight the 230 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 5: Confederacy did the Civil War, and he was able to 231 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 5: use that like this for people who you know, might 232 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 5: not have access to the North Star but can see 233 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 5: his picture or like, oh, this man says we should 234 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 5: like join and fight, and like giving people the idea 235 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 5: the abolition is possible, you know. So he was really 236 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 5: like firing on all cylinders truly. But I think like 237 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 5: a lot of scholars call him like the father of 238 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,080 Speaker 5: the Civil rights movement, and we see a lot of 239 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 5: his tactics and movements current movements now. Like when you 240 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 5: look back at the Civil Rights movement, a lot of 241 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 5: things you're looking at is pictures. Right, So on Bloody 242 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 5: Sunday when John Lewis crossed that Edmund Pettis Bridge, people 243 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 5: saw the images of the dogs getting sticked on people 244 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 5: and the water hoses knocking people down, and that's put 245 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 5: on TV and you know, you can write your letter 246 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 5: from the Birmingham jail and stuff like that, but those 247 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,559 Speaker 5: images hit different. And I think Frederick Douglas was kind 248 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 5: of one of the maybe not first, but one of 249 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 5: the most prominent people to say, like the opress can 250 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,559 Speaker 5: show these images and like change things. And you see 251 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 5: that in the civil rights movement, see in the Black 252 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 5: Lives Matter movement, And I think now even in like Palestine, 253 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 5: we're getting like terrible images coming from Palestine. And the 254 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 5: thing that's kind of different with Palestine is like you're 255 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 5: seeing these images and we're like what the fuck? And 256 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:56,559 Speaker 5: then the powers at b are just like whatever. 257 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: You know, we're inundated with so many of them that 258 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: it's become easier to be desensitized. 259 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 5: I don't think we're desensitized. I think the ruling class 260 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 5: just doesn't give a fuck about Palestinians, right, And so 261 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 5: it's like we're used to saying like, oh, we're seeing 262 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 5: these horrible images and they're telling the truth. So things 263 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 5: need to change because we've seen that going all the 264 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 5: way back from abolition, But now with Paleside is like 265 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 5: not happening. 266 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: So when I say we, I don't mean necessarily me 267 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: and you and people who we know are pro Palestine. 268 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: But I do think there is a general public outside 269 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,439 Speaker 1: of the ruling class that is in denial purposeful denial 270 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: as well, because just think about all the people I 271 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 1: mean holocaust deniers going to that, I mean everything, like 272 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: people who deny atrocities that happen in the world. People 273 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: turn a blind eye to it a lot of the 274 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: time and say, these things are happening, but are they 275 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: really happening, like people who're saying they were like actors 276 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,079 Speaker 1: in Sandy Hook. You know, just whenever atrocities come up, 277 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: there are always regular people, including poor people, including people 278 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: who are not part of the ruling class, who are like, 279 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,599 Speaker 1: you know, they see all of this in front of 280 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: their face and like there's they use some sort of 281 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: excuse to be like, yeah, it's not really happy happening. 282 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: In many ways, Douglas was ahead of his time in 283 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 1: recognizing the profound impact that photography could have on public 284 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: perception and national consciousness. 285 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:15,719 Speaker 5: His photos radiated dignity and authority, characteristics denied to those 286 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 5: who had been enslaved, and his extensive photographic archive is 287 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 5: a testament to the transformative power of the camera to humanize, educate, 288 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 5: and inspire. 289 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: Next, we're traveling between Massachusetts and South Africa to hear 290 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: about how two Polaroid employees contributed to the fall of apartheid. 291 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: That's after the Break Act two, the Polaroid protest. 292 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 5: I wanted to include the Polaroid protest in this episode 293 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 5: because one unlike Frederick Douglas, I hadn't known about it 294 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 5: until recently. And that could just be a function of 295 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 5: our US focus educational system, but it also could be 296 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 5: because it gives a great blueprint for how we can 297 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 5: affect change today when it comes to corporations participating in oppression. 298 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a powerful story that really highlights the transformative 299 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: potential of worker led activism. 300 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 2: So let's get into it. 301 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 5: In nineteen seventy two, African American Polaroid employees Caroline Hunter 302 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 5: and Ken Williams made a shocking discovery that Polaroid's products 303 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 5: were being used by the South African government to create 304 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 5: ID past books for black South Africans as part of 305 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 5: the oppressive apartheid system. Here's Caroline Hunter describing how she 306 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 5: and Ken Williams made that discovery. 307 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 2: It was really a fluke. 308 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 6: Ken and I were going out to lunch and as 309 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 6: we passed through the workplace on our way out, we 310 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 6: saw an ID badge MAYFA, South Africa. We looked at 311 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 6: it and began to say to each other, we didn't 312 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 6: know Polaroid was in South Africa. 313 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: In response to finding out that their employer's products were 314 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: being used to oppress black South Africans, Caroline and Ken 315 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: formed the Polaroid Revolutionary Workers Movement, or the PRWM, and 316 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: they issued three bold demands to Polaroid on October eighth, 317 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy One, that Polaroid announced a policy of complete 318 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: disengagement from South Africa since all American companies doing business 319 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: in South Africa reinforced that racist system and its government. 320 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: Two that Polaroid have its management meet with the entire 321 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: company to discuss this policy and announce his position on 322 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: apartheid publicly in the USA and in South Africa simultaneously. 323 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: Three that if Polaroid company is sincereness opposition to apartheid, 324 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: we call upon it to contribute the profits earned. 325 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 5: This was an unprecedented move At the time. It was 326 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 5: the norm for corporations to uphold racist regimes through their 327 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 5: products and for employees and customers to say nothing, but 328 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 5: not the PRWM. The PRWN organized a protest of about 329 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 5: two hundred people at polaroids headquarters at Cambridge, Massachusetts, bringing 330 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 5: their message directly to the company, and after a Polaroid 331 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,199 Speaker 5: refused to meet with at PRWM. They called for a 332 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 5: worldwide boycott of Polaroid products by all Right On Thinking 333 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 5: People on October twenty seventh and a fly release by 334 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 5: the group. They explained their reasoning for the boycott. 335 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 1: Polaroid sells its ID two system to the South African 336 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: government to make the notorious pastbook pictures Polaroid imprisons black people. 337 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 2: In just sixty seconds. 338 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,640 Speaker 4: Here's Caroline Hunter again explaining that ethos behind their fight 339 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 4: for black South Africans. 340 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 6: We really had some sense that no one's free unless 341 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 6: everybody's free, and that we had some relationship to black 342 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 6: people everywhere, and as workers, we had a right to 343 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 6: say what happened to our labor. So we started off 344 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 6: just asking the question, what is Polaroid doing in South Africa. 345 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 1: In response to the prwm's question asking and demand making, 346 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: Polaroid sent a delegation to South Africa and announced the 347 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: Polaroid Experiment. In the experiment, Polaroid would ban sales to 348 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: the government, raised wages, and increased job training for black workers. 349 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 5: But PRWM saw the Polaroid experiment for what it was, 350 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,640 Speaker 5: a disingenuous attempt to continue profiting from apartheid. And quel 351 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 5: discent among workers. Caroline Hunter and Ken Williams also testified 352 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 5: before the United Nations Special Committee on Apartheid advocating for 353 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:29,360 Speaker 5: a boycott of Polaroid. This puts significant pressure on Polaroid 354 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 5: to respond to the worker's demands. 355 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: Caroline Hunter and Kim Williams were fired from Polaroid for 356 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:36,400 Speaker 1: their activism, but. 357 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 5: The PRWM continued and after seven years of protest, Polaroid 358 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 5: finally withdrew from South Africa in nineteen seventy seven, ending 359 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 5: its business ties with the apartheid regime. The Polaroid workers 360 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 5: activism is seen as pioneering in the corporate divestment movement 361 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 5: against apartheid After the break, how we can use the 362 00:18:55,280 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 5: Polaroid protests as a blueprint for movement work today? 363 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: You mentioned earlier that you saw this protest as like 364 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: a blueprint for how we can affect change today. 365 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 2: What exactly do you mean by that? 366 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 5: I think in a capitalistic society, protests that come for 367 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 5: your oppressor's capital are more effective than the ones that 368 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 5: appeal to their morals because they simply don't have any 369 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 5: I found this leaflet that the African Research Group put 370 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 5: out about the Polaroid protests as they were going on 371 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 5: in the seventies, and I think they explained best. Arg 372 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 5: thinks that the brave action taken by these workers is 373 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 5: the most important movement now going on in the US 374 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 5: about South Africa. The workers are making demands that strike 375 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 5: at the economic roots of apartheid, rather than bemoaning the 376 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 5: inhuman conditions that the system inflicts. They are revolutionary black 377 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,880 Speaker 5: workers struggling against imperialist oppression and winning their own liberation. 378 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 5: It goes on to say Polaroid is an ideal target. 379 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 5: It is a well known LIB company which disguises its 380 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 5: support for South Africa in pseudo humanistic rhetoric. It knows 381 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 5: that a victory against them will hurt not only them, 382 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 5: but other US and peeriless companies as well. Defeating Polaroid 383 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 5: provides an important starting point an example for similar struggles 384 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 5: against other companies. It undermines their mystifying ideology and strikes 385 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 5: a blow at their economic well being. Polaroid is only 386 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 5: the beginning, and I wanted to include this because storytelling 387 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 5: is kind of like a neutral tool. It could be 388 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 5: used for good, it could be used for evil. So 389 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,880 Speaker 5: in the case of South Africa, Polaroid was using photography 390 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 5: for evil, like the story that they were telling about 391 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 5: black South Africans, or that they were a criminal, they 392 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,239 Speaker 5: were second class citizens, if citizens at all, you know, 393 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 5: that they deserve to be monitored and like really restricting 394 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 5: their freedom of movement. And then the story that Caroline 395 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 5: and Ken got from that when they just happened to 396 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 5: see that picture, which I'm so glad they did imagine 397 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 5: if they are head were like turn and that the 398 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 5: other way, like this protest might not even happen or 399 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,719 Speaker 5: might have happened years later, but they saw that and 400 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 5: like took that information that like Polaroid is like telling 401 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 5: the story about black people in South Africa that simply 402 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 5: isn't true. 403 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 4: And we're going to stand up for. 404 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 5: Fellow black people around the world, whether we like know 405 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 5: them personally or not, whether we have familial ties to 406 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:23,919 Speaker 5: them or not, because this story just isn't true and 407 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 5: it's such the antithesis of what Frederick Douglass was doing 408 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 5: with his picture. He was using it to say, like 409 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 5: this is who black people are, kind of like showing 410 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 5: our humanity in South Africa was doing the exact opposite, 411 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 5: like stripping black people's humanity away from them. With these 412 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 5: pastbook pictures. 413 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: And it's also telling that these pastbook photos were photos 414 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 1: taken in the midst of like direct action that was 415 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: happening or anything like that, and like movement in the streets. 416 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,199 Speaker 1: They were just photos of people. They were portraits, just 417 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: like the pictures of Frederick Douglass were. So thinking about 418 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: that neutrality, it's like you see a person in a photo, 419 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: but what's the context? What is it a part of 420 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: one thing? See the setting for Frederick Douglas's photos isn't 421 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 1: an anti slavery newspaper, and then this isn't a pastbook 422 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: that is used to directly harm South Africans, to directly 423 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: commit violence upon black people, and to restrict their movement, 424 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 1: to disenfranchise them, to do so many of these other 425 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,719 Speaker 1: terrible things to black people on South Africans. So in 426 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,120 Speaker 1: the quote that you just read where it was talking 427 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: about how Polaroid is an ideal target because it's a 428 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: liberal company, also hits really hard to thinking about that 429 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,640 Speaker 1: in terms of this social media age where there are 430 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: so many corporations that have this hashtag to cling onto 431 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: that is like pro black or it's pro LGBTQ, or 432 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: it's body positive you know, there are so many things 433 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: that they can latch onto that look really good in 434 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 1: their commercials. They have really good marketing tactics about it, 435 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: and they cling on to those things and rightfully so. 436 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: And that quote you just read, they bring that up 437 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: and how they are a great target because of that, 438 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 1: because they profess to believe in certain things, they profess 439 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 1: to support certain things. 440 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 2: But look at. 441 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: This actual legwork that Caroline and Ken have done and 442 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: that people today in movements and protests are doing to 443 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: see what the numbers behind the pseudo actions are, like 444 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: tracing the lines from one thing to the next. 445 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 2: And yeah, it's also. 446 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 5: Very perscian, Yeah, because I can imagine like Polaroid during 447 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,160 Speaker 5: that time, it's like seems like very family friendly company, 448 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 5: like oh you get your pictures in sixty seconds, but 449 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,160 Speaker 5: like their the paper and their archives heads like your 450 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 5: Polari imprisons black people in just sixty seconds. So, like 451 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 5: you said, it does depend on the context, but like 452 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 5: in this context, it really reminded me of was like 453 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 5: your booking picture or your mugshot. 454 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 4: You know, look at this criminal. 455 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 5: We have tabs on you, we have our eyes on you, 456 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 5: and like Polaroid being sell into that, and let's not 457 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 5: forget their polaroid experiment because companies will do that too. 458 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 5: The way they're talking about we're gonna raise wages for 459 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 5: the black workers in the United States. 460 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 4: The Oki dog, the fucking Okay dog. 461 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 5: And I'm glad they did for that because I feel 462 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 5: like niggas be falling for that, like oh word, we 463 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:17,640 Speaker 5: get two weeks vacation. So yeah, like really being principled 464 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 5: and just standing up for black people across the diaspora. 465 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 5: And it's like talking about palisine, I get kind of frustrated, 466 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 5: like you know, it's like, definitely boycott these companies. But 467 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 5: then people are saying, like the people who work there 468 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 5: can't do anything about it, like they have to have 469 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,719 Speaker 5: a job. I'm like, I truly do not believe that's true. 470 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 5: Like you can disrupt your company from the inside, and 471 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 5: like they might fire you like they did Caroline and Can. 472 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 4: With the quickness, but they can't fire everybody. 473 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 5: Ain't no company then, So I think there is stuff 474 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 5: that you can do in the inside and the outside. 475 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 5: So that's what I mean when I said the blueprint too, 476 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 5: like get on these companies' asses. 477 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: So yes, let's talk about their appt use of that 478 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,959 Speaker 1: slogan of the Polaroid in sixty seconds because so many 479 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: people would have been familiar with that slogan at the time, 480 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: and so it's something that people were hearing a lot 481 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: who were probably fans of Polaroid or just didn't know 482 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: anything about their political stances or who they were sending 483 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 1: money to. So for them to add the word in prisons, 484 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: I think it's a very effective way of them using 485 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 1: rhetoric to have like a really emotional response, because that's 486 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: what slogans do. They do something that becomes an earworm 487 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: for you, something that's going to stay stuck in your head, 488 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: and it's going to evoke an emotional response, so you 489 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:37,400 Speaker 1: have some sort of weird connection to a corporation. So 490 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,440 Speaker 1: for them to add the word in prisons I think 491 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: was a very effective way for them using Polaroid's own 492 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: terminology against them. 493 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 5: Yeah, and another thing I found in the archive was 494 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 5: they were encouraging everybody to create leaflets pamphlets about what 495 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,159 Speaker 5: was going on. It wasn't just like, oh, this is 496 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 5: our thing, y'all, don't say nothing. It was like, anybody 497 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,400 Speaker 5: who knows anything about what Polaroids doing put this out there. 498 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 5: Spread it wide, and you know we talk often about 499 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 5: like just creating your own media. It's like they're not 500 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:07,959 Speaker 5: gonna be talking about this on sixty minutes. 501 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 4: They just not. 502 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 5: They might later on once you start the grassroots, but 503 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 5: the information isn't going to come from the top down. 504 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,919 Speaker 5: And so when you're like on the ground and just 505 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 5: putting out this information, everybody's like working together using their 506 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 5: slogans against them. 507 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 4: It's really effective. 508 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 5: And as we saw, you know, it took years, but 509 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 5: it did make a huge change. And that was like, 510 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 5: as the quote said, Polarid is just the beginning. Our 511 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 5: Polarid is only the beginning. Like they were coming for 512 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 5: other companies next too. So shout out to Caroline and 513 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 5: Ken and the whole group really, because you know, I 514 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 5: think we like to like shout out the leaders, but 515 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 5: it takes the whole Polaroid Revolutionary Workers movement to make 516 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 5: it happen. And now it is time for roll credits 517 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 5: the segment or we give credit to a person, place, 518 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 5: or thing that we've encountered during the week eves, Who 519 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 5: or what would you like to give credit to. 520 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: I would like to give credit to good hosts. I 521 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: really like hosting, but I also really like being a 522 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: guest as well, So it's nice when people are gracious 523 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: enough to like open up their home and have people 524 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: over and provide food and like set up activities for them. 525 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 2: That's why I want to give credit to. 526 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 4: Today, Okay, good hosts. 527 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 5: I would like to give credit to my guardian angels. 528 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 5: They had their hands on me, and sometimes you've be 529 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 5: thinking something happens and you're like, oh, that's just a coincidence, 530 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 5: but you're like, nah, they was looking out. 531 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 4: So thank you. 532 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 1: So everyone, we have an announcement about our show. 533 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 2: Next week. 534 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: We will be coming back with a brand new episode, 535 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: but we will be taking a short break throughout the 536 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: month of May, so you won't get any new episodes 537 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: until June sixth, But you can listen to all of 538 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 1: our previous episode. Any of them that you haven't heard, 539 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 1: you can listen to them. If there are any that 540 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 1: you want to listen to again, you can listen to them, 541 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,719 Speaker 1: and you can keep up with us on social media 542 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,880 Speaker 1: at on Theme Show. You can also go to our 543 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,919 Speaker 1: website on Theme dot Show. But stay subscribed because we 544 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 1: have so many more cool episodes coming up when we 545 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: come back in June. And what are some of those 546 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: episodes going to be about Katie. 547 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 5: You'll be hearing from arkivist talking about the hilarious stories 548 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,440 Speaker 5: they found in the archive. We'll hear from a children's 549 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,239 Speaker 5: lit expert about the lessons we pass on to our 550 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 5: kids through literature. 551 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: You'll also get to learn a little bit about the 552 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: Black Muses who are part of visual arts history. And 553 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: you'll get an episode about Kronk Music and Snap Music. 554 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: So make sure you stay subscribed. See you next week. 555 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 1: See Ya on Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and 556 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: Fairweather Friends Media. This episode was written by Eves Jeffco 557 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: and Katie Mitchell, was edited and produced by Tari Harrison. 558 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 2: Follow us on. 559 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: Instagram at on themeshow. You can also send us an 560 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: email at helloat on Theme dot show. Head to on 561 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: Themet Show to check out the show notes for episodes. 562 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, 563 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.