WEBVTT - The Series Finale of America 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.720 Native Lamp Pod is a re production of iHeartRadio in 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:06.480 partnership with Reason Choice Media. 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:11.400 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, who Welcome home to the Native 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:15.080 landing on the podcast face that's a for greatness sixteen minutes. 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:17.360 It's so hit, not too long for the great ship, 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:20.120 high level combo politics in a way that you could 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:24.080 taste it then digest it. Politics touches you even if you. 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:24.680 Don't touch it. 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:28.400 So get invested across the t's and doctor Odds kill 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:30.760 them back to get them staying on business with Rie. 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:33.680 You could have been anywhere, but you chose us Native 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:36.239 Land Podcast, the brand that you can trust us. 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:40.680 Welcome Home you guys is episode twenty sixth of Native Lamppod. 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:43.400 I am your host, Tiffany Cross. So here's my co 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:46.879 host Andrew Gillum and Angela Rai and right here we 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:48.240 give it to you like that crown. 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:50.840 Wow, straight, no chaser. What's going on you guys. 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:54.080 It's been a billion rady some milk. 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:58.240 All the changes, the difficulties we had a so just 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:00.240 so y'all know we've had a lot of technical little 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:03.000 difficulties today Getting it. 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:07.120 Ain't nothing but the devil. 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:08.920 I mean it can be, but he not over here. 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:10.560 I think the devil don't want us to get this 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:11.520 truth to all today. 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:14.720 But we shall be moved. That's gotta be what it is. 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:15.800 That's gotta be what it. 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:20.880 Well, we better get into it before before something else happened. 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:24.320 We didn't have audio issues, video issues. 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:29.880 So but we still standing, y'all, We still stand. 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:33.640 But we get up. 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:38.679 All right, Nick, we fell down. Gonna get us on 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:43.600 up and drop that beat, all right, you guys. So 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:45.640 we have a lot to get into. First of all, 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:48.400 I know y'all wanted to hear from us after the debate, 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:52.080 but this is our recording schedule. We dropped the day 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:56.880 that debate happened, and so unfortunately you did not get 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:58.360 to hear from us. But we're gonna get into the 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:00.840 fallout from that, which I think is way more important 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:06.400 on this episode. So Angela, I know because we were 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:09.520 in group chats and talking about it, this Trump Community case. 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:12.240 Yes, here's the thing. 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:15.160 We all knew that this was going to be one 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:17.960 of these things that was going to happen. But that's 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:20.320 what happens when you have insurrectionists on the Supreme Court. 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:24.160 So we will talk about the Supreme court ruling, the 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:26.480 opinion that was just brought down yesterday. We're recording a 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:30.280 day early this week, and we will talk about my 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:33.760 favorite part as well, the dissenters, because sometimes it's the 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:36.000 dissenters who preserve. 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:37.040 The union, so we'll talk about that. 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:39.359 I'm looking forward to get into this discussion, although I'm 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:41.840 not excited about what the ruling was at all. 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:46.240 No, no, what you bring up, yeah, I mean, and 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:49.040 follow up to this course ruling, I think the stakes 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:52.600 of this presidential US and it congressional. You list the 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:55.480 offices and we can talk about its importance. I believe 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:58.520 they shifted and I love to sort of get into 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:02.320 Yes there was the debate, Yes there was the poor performance, 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:07.400 but yes, there is a presidential election at stake, and 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:09.480 the six couldn't be much higher. We'll get into that, 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:10.359 all right. 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:12.120 Before we get into the show, I'm gonna throw it 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:14.080 back because I got to disappoint you guys. There are 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:16.040 no sports in the show this week. So I got 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:19.639 three throwbacks for you that are all sports. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:24.320 it's good. So July sixth, nineteen fifty seven, ALTHEA. Gibson 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:28.200 became the first black woman to win Wimbledon. July fifth, 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:31.840 nineteen seventy five, Arthur Ash became the first black man 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:35.280 to win with Wimbledon, and July six, two thousand and two, 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:41.440 Serena Williams defeated Venus to win her first Wimbledon singles title. 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:43.720 I haven't given you all my tennis knowledge, so there 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:44.080 you go. 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:46.920 I appreciate that. That's our little shot, you know. 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:50.040 I just want to bring the people to sports, because everybody, 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:54.040 no matter how you feel about anything, everybody like sports, like. 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:54.920 Me, any who. 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:57.280 I wanted to get into that too, because now we 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:02.240 must depress you with a mayor to the beautiful America 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:03.960 to ghetto. 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:10.880 Hello Andrew, Hello Tiffany, and hello Angelum. My name is 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:16.280 Jason Bowman. I am from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Love Native Land podcast, 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:18.359 and I'm hoping that you guys can answer my question 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.520 because I'm sure, like most Americans, we are confused over 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:25.440 the Supreme Court ruling in regards to January sixth insurrection. 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:26.880 So here goes. 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:30.440 So I'm confused because I would love to know what 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:34.760 exactly does the Supreme Court mean? Do they mean that 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:39.599 Donald Trump has immunity over his behavior that basically excited 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:42.440 the riot? To happen on January sixth. Does this mean 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:45.000 that he was on official president duty while sitting in 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:48.440 lame duck status? Does this mean that he's immune from 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:53.000 all charges? What exactly does this mean? And from my understanding, 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:55.599 I assume that when the president was taking office that 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.960 they were under oath to protect the constitution. Everything that 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:03.279 he did on January sixth did not protect the constitution. 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:08.160 So I'm just confused. What message does this send to 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:10.039 future presidents of this nation. 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:14.200 Apparently the Supreme Court is still bon and so, and 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:18.800 apparently Justice Clarence Thomas is still dropping it like it's 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:22.040 hot and the bar couldn't be lower. So we have 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:29.120 the Supreme Court which talked about Donald Trump having immunity. 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:32.960 We have absolute immunity, which was on the table, and 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:38.240 presumptive immunity, which was on the table before this particular ruling. 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:41.400 This court is John Roberts. 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:45.720 Justice Roberts starts this decision saying that they've never had 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:50.440 to consider criminal immunity for a president before, and that's 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:53.760 what was at stake in this particular case. The most 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:56.720 critical line in the opinion is this, this case is 0:05:56.760 --> 0:06:00.800 the first criminal prosecution in our nation's history. Of a 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:05.039 former president for actions taken during his presidency. 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:06.040 Now, you would think with. 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:09.120 The line like that that they are going to side 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:11.880 with morality, that they are going to side with a 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:14.320 president having to be above reproach, kind of like a 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:17.040 bishop in the Bible. Right, That's not what happens here. 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:23.880 They instead say that there is no immunity for unofficial acts. Great, right, 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:24.520 you meet us. 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:26.599 Where we are. There's no immunity for our. 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:31.600 Official or unofficial acts, but that there is absolute immunity 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:36.200 from criminal prosecution for actions within his conclusive and. 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:39.600 Preclusive constitutional authority. We'll talk about that. 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:43.599 And he is entitled to at least presumptive immunity from 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:46.280 prosecution for all his official acts. That's a lot of 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:50.919 word salad, but here's the bottom line. Donald Trump, if 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:55.160 he takes any number of actions, is not going to 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:58.359 be criminally prosecuted, should not be as the office of 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:01.160 the president. And many of you have asked, well, this 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:02.920 applies to Donald Trump, how's it? 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:04.440 How does it apply to Joe Biden. 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:07.040 I just want to give you this one, this one 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:12.480 observation Joe Biden was being uh, they were considering trying 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:18.320 Joe Biden for a violation of how of handling classified 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:22.920 documents that particular case. In that particular case, Special Prosecutor 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:26.560 Richard Hurst says he's too old to be to be 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:29.440 to be tried on this matter. There should be no 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:35.040 criminal liability. Well, now under this case doctrine, he couldn't 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:37.400 be because he's the president and while it was while 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:39.160 he was officially in office. 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:41.320 Maybe they could argue because he was a. 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:43.960 Vice president at the time right that that he didn't 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:46.880 do anything that he could actually be liable. It is 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:50.920 interesting to see how this uh philosophy will be will 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:54.480 come to pass with other officials in a president's cabinet. 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:58.120 But the thing that's most interesting to me at this point, y'all, 0:07:58.120 --> 0:07:59.560 and we can get it more into the weasis, but 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:01.720 I want to say, have a conversation, not just a lecture, 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:04.320 but the thing that I think is interesting about this 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:08.600 particular case as well is Donald Trump. And this is 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:10.720 what we've been talking about on this podcast, kind of 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:16.440 litigating on this podcast. Is Donald Trump using this immunity 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:23.640 to say, therefore I should not be convicted or sentenced 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:26.800 on these other counts. As we know, there are eighty 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:31.200 eight indictments against against Donald Trump. Eighty eight counts thirty 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:34.040 four he was found guilty of in a New York court. 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:37.400 He used this case from yesterday, this holding in this case, 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:40.960 and said I should not be criminally prosecuted. I should 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:43.480 have never been convicted and I certainly shouldn't be sentenced 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:46.880 in this New York case because this should apply even 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:47.440 in state. 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:48.800 In state matters. 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:52.520 Well, the verdict of the sentencing is now postponed by 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:55.040 two weeks. We are supposed to get lucky on seven 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:58.400 to eleven, not anymore. And now he's saying that this 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:01.840 should apply. Here's the problem. Donald Trump was not a 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:05.080 sitting president when this happened. Donald Trump was running for office. 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:07.920 That is not an official act. So I'm interested to 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:10.040 see what this judge does. It makes me nervous that 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:12.000 he's postponed this. But I want y'all to weigh in 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:13.560 because it's a lot of things that I want and 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:14.960 I want to get into some of the what IF's 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:17.240 and ask y'all my pole questions because you know, y'all, 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:18.280 y'all know we are poland firm. 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:20.319 Now, well, one, thank you for helping to break that 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:23.040 down for us Angela. And on the last point, with 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:27.600 regard to the New York case, he did sign a 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:31.120 number of the checks while in the White House, and 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:38.920 apparently in the in the trial there uh, there was 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:43.080 evidence allowed to be viewed by the jury of public statements, 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:48.240 public tweets that were administered by the President from the 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:51.960 White House. And it is now their contention that because 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:58.880 that now protected and privileged information was allowed to be 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:02.840 shown to the jury, and some might say, possibly reasonably 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:08.280 calculated in their in their verdict, that the entire verdict, 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:12.199 all thirty four counts ought to be vacated. In fact, 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:16.320 the first chilling effect that occurred yesterday was the US 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:21.480 Department of Justice in New York was supposed to submit 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:25.880 their recommendations to the judge privately to the judge around 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:30.600 around what he should be facing visa vs. Sentencing. They 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:34.160 did not submit that document to the judges. New York 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:39.200 States Attorney Yeah, yeah, no, Well, the United States Department 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:43.080 of Justice Southern District was supposed to submit recommendations. I'm sorry, 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:49.200 you're right, I apologize. Angelo's Alvin brageah, And they did 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:51.800 not submit those recommendations to the judge yesterday when they 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:56.680 were due. Then, as a result, the Alvin Bragg's office 0:10:56.720 --> 0:11:00.800 that we would be in favor of delaying the sentencing 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.720 by two weeks, and the judge, of course has complied. 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:08.280 But Angela one of the shocking decision in the sense 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:11.040 that not only did they get it is because it 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:14.080 is one thing to give Donald Trump what he asked for. 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:18.520 They went way above and beyond the simple parameters of 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:22.240 what Donald Trump asked for. In fact, in one of 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:25.839 the extreme ways, while they said of president, a former 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:29.240 president can be prosecuted for actions he's taken that are 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:34.840 of a personal nature. It precludes being shown as submitted 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:40.280 as evidence any discussions, conversations planning, his method his thinking 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:44.600 of those actions taken while he was president. They preclude 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:47.680 a jury from being able to have access to any 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:51.120 of that information for fear that it may chill the 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:54.439 bold actions of a president from doing, saying and acting 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:59.160 as a bold president should. It confused me because there 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.920 was never, ever, ever an argument that presidents are not 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:06.000 bold and haven't been bold prior to Donald Trump because 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:09.920 of fear of prosecution. That's never I've never heard that before. 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:14.240 In fact, we've seen very activists and strong demonstrations of 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:18.640 individuals in the presidency. In fact, the court said that 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:21.520 the reason why we have to go so far to 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:25.920 protect this president and give him immunity so that this decision, 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:28.960 which is for the ages, doesn't cause us to have 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:32.280 presidents who are trepidacious about making the kinds of decisions 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:35.600 that they must make while in office. But that assumption, 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:39.800 that statement by the Chief Justice assumes that presidents prior 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.400 to Donald Trump, but we're under the suspension that they 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:45.160 could never be prosecuted, and that can't be right. Let's 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:47.480 just look at the case of Lyndon B. Johnson and Ford. 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:51.120 Why would Ford have pardoned I'm sorry, why would Ford 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:59.400 have parted Nixon if I didn't But but but why 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:01.520 would he is to pardon to Nixon if there was 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:05.280 not a reasonable fear that a president could be prosecuted 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:06.560 for actions that they took in office? 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:08.720 Of course, and I think when I was even pushing 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:10.280 back and tip, I love for you to weigh in here, 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:13.760 when I was pushing back on that, it was shocking. 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:15.880 I think that there was a part of us that 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:18.080 kind of knew this was going to happen. 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:21.120 We saw just based on what this Supreme. 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:25.920 Court is ruling around reproductive justice, what they've ruled around homelessness, 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:30.479 what they ruled in Chevron, what they ruled around assault weapons. 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:32.920 I mean, we can't keep going. I don't know that 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:33.760 we were really shocked. 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:36.720 And then of course January sixth itself just last week, 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:39.680 So I don't know that we were super shocked because 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:42.280 of the makeup of this court, not because this is 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:44.600 what this court would do. So Tip, I want you 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:46.000 to weigh in here, and then I have some you know, 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:47.640 I got some focused group questions for you. 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.319 Well, I have to say, like, it's so frustrating when 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:54.200 I have consumed some of the media around this, in 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:56.760 both print and broadcast, because I do think people are 0:13:56.800 --> 0:14:02.240 so into the weeds that for people out there who wonder, like, 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.560 why do I care about this, this seems like, you know, 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:06.920 a thousand miles away from me, this is why you 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:10.600 should care. Essentially, the court, there is no appeal. The 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:13.080 Supreme Court is the highest court of the land, and 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:17.240 they have essentially given the office of the president free 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:22.440 reign to do whatever they like. So Donald Trump, were 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:27.760 he to win another election, could have a political rival assassinated. 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:32.280 Donald Trump, were he to win reelection, could use that 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:37.040 office to enrich his pockets, which he did the first term. 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:40.120 I believe Jared and Ivanka made eighty million dollars the 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:42.240 first year he was in office, and it continued to grow. 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:44.520 Let's not forget that this is a man who had 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:50.000 Kislyak Russian operative in the Oval office. What would stop him? 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:50.320 Now? 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:55.600 One thing that the one of the attorneys argued, who 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.360 was arguing on Donald Trump's behalf a question that he posed, 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:00.640 which I thought was legitimate. If we are going to 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:04.040 allow presidents to be prosecuted, Let's say a president has 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:08.440 to make the call to have a foreign adversary taken out. 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:13.400 Could he then later be subject subjected to criminal charges? 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.120 And I thought, well, you know that is a legitimate question. 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:18.960 Now that they've essentially said you can do whatever you 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:24.320 want in office, that should give everyone chills because imagine 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:31.240 what an unhinged, uh politically inept person whose first job 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:34.400 in government was president of the United States. Imagine what 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:44.160 he might do or the second term, well, second term. 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:43.400 No, one second. 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:45.240 I was just going to say one second on this, 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:51.400 I want to roll Katanji Brown Jackson's sound from when 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:54.440 they heard the oral arguments in April, because she raises 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.120 some of the very points in questions or you make 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:00.520 made them statements as declarations to she raised the best 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:02.520 questions to Trumps lawyer, let's robe that sound. 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:06.680 I'm trying to understand what the disincentive is from turning 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:11.600 the Oval Office into, you know, the seat of criminal 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:12.720 activity in this country. 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:15.080 I don't know if there's any allegation of that in 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:17.960 this case. And what George Washington said is what Benjamin 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.280 Franklin said is we viewed the prosecution of a chief 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.320 executive as something that everybody cried out against is unconstitutional. 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:27.320 And what George Washington said is we're worried about factional strife, 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:28.200 which will. 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:30.280 No I also let me let me let me put 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:32.800 this worry on the table. If the potential for criminal 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:36.040 liability is taken off the table, wouldn't there be a 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:40.600 significant risk that future presidents would be emboldened to commit 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:45.320 crimes with abandon while they're in office. It's right now 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:49.240 the fact that we're having this debate because OLC has 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:53.760 said that presidents might be prosecuted. Presidents from the beginning 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:57.000 of time have understood that that's a possibility. That might 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:59.880 be what has kept this office from turning into the 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:03.800 kind of crime center that I'm envisioning. But once we 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:07.879 say no criminal liability. Mister President, you can do whatever 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:11.320 you want. I'm worried that we would have a worse 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:15.040 problem than the problem of the president feeling constrained to 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:16.679 follow the law while he's in office. 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:20.840 So I want I wanted to play that clip because, 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:24.960 as Tiff said, we are very much in the weeds 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:25.239 on this. 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:29.520 It is important for me to try to lay out 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:35.280 how many layers and how detailed they were and meticulous 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:39.000 they were about showing all of the ways that Trump 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:42.159 is protected in this role. When we learn Civics, and 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:45.240 this is the danger of taking textbooks out of schools, 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:49.399 we learn that the legislative branch makes laws, that the 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:54.080 judicial branch interprets or evaluates laws, and that the executive 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:58.080 branch carries out the laws. What they're saying now is 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:01.960 that the executive branch will make the law, will break 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:04.600 the law, will take the law, and will do as 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:07.800 they see fit with the law. That's the point, and 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:11.320 I think when we look at those pieces, that is very, 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:14.479 very scary. This isn't about what Donald Trump will do 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:15.400 in office. 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:19.080 This is about what anybody elected to the highest office 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:22.680 of the land can do. And Justice Jackson Kazanji Brown 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:25.560 Jackson was absolutely right. There are people who would have 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.880 never considered running for office, Tiffany and Andrew, who now 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:31.040 will consider it because they see it as a way 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:34.080 to get away with all of the things that they 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:37.520 never could potentially unless they're a CEO of a big company. 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:39.840 Some of those folks have been running circles and running 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:42.159 game for a long time. I'll lie in Ron, but 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:44.600 I think that we have to really consider what all 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:47.520 this means. Now you have a court not just turning 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:50.160 a blind eye, but putting pen to paper. 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:52.600 To say this is these are the things you can 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:53.320 do that. 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:55.480 Even and this was the part that was scary for 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:57.520 me too. I don't know if this if you all 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:01.000 saw this, but they talked about the outer perimeter of 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:06.320 official responsibilities and that outer perimeter it still covers your 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:10.240 actions as long as they are not manifestly or probably 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:13.199 beyond his authority. But they go on to say all 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:17.040 these things that are beyond authority. Clarence Thomas went into 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:20.480 talking about how you know, even the role of a 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:22.960 special prosecutor should not be a thing. 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:27.600 They're perimeter like when you say it, because I mean, 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:31.600 I'm as basically like yeah, and I don't know either. 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:33.199 But tip, what I'm saying is they look like what 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:35.120 it looks like they were doing is like, here are 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:38.600 these things that are your official responsibilities. Here are these 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:41.879 things that are like kind of related to your official responsibilities. 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:44.480 And even if it looks like you were signing the 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:46.399 checks for the hush money, even though you already made 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:48.359 some payments in a twenty sixteen campaign, That's what I 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:50.359 was going to say earlier, Andrew. But if you sign 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:53.520 the checks because you were sitting in the taxpayer paid 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:56.919 chair in the oval office, that is the outer perimeter 0:19:56.960 --> 0:19:59.640 of your official responsibility, because you were signing them while 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:02.080 in aging in the course of other activity. They didn't 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:05.560 use that example specifically, but I can see that saying 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:09.800 it's not manifestly or probably beyond his authority, because if 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:12.920 he were convicted of this, it could be frowned upon 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:15.640 and looked bad upon by the you know, the rest 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:18.040 of the world leaders, or it could look bad for 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:20.080 the country. So because it looked bad for the country, 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:22.399 we should allow this in as an official activity or 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:23.359 out of perimeter activity. 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:25.000 And Angela, I don't think they were opake about that. 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:27.720 I think they were very clear, which is even if 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:30.520 it is a act that is non presidential outside of 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:35.639 your duties and responsibilities, nothing, you can't get any evidence 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:40.679 gathered from why you were president and support of you 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:43.680 having broken the laws. So they've made it, they've handicapped. 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:45.800 They say he can be accountable, but then they handicap 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:48.159 his responsibility. And I just want to cite a few examples. 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:51.679 One the Department of Justice, which we all previously fought, 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:54.480 was the chief attorney on behalf of the United States. 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:58.280 The court was explicit. In fact, they said all charges 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:01.560 regarding his conversations and his directions given to the Attorney 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:05.560 General to take certain actions like a letter saying we 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:08.159 need to investigate your state and send fake electors or 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:10.680 send a whole another slate which Donald Trump asked the 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:13.199 attorney the acting internet a General to do, and he 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:16.000 refused to do it and say he will resign the court. 0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:19.959 The US Supreme Court said it will be it is 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:24.119 not permissible for you to account that as a charge 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:26.720 against the president because the Department of Justice is his 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:31.680 the Department of Justice and the Attorney General reports to him, 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:35.119 and the President can give direction, have conversation with the 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:39.040 Attorney General as well about active investigations, direct who he 0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:43.000 should investigate, Direct who they can bring charges against. All 0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:45.760 of this they have, they have, they have quote in 0:21:45.840 --> 0:21:51.680 the universal unitary Executive, Donald Trump or whomever else may 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:54.760 come after him. The president can also take a bribe 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:59.840 for pardoning somebody. Pardon power is exclusively in the jurisdiction 0:21:59.880 --> 0:22:02.159 of president of the United States, which means it is 0:22:02.240 --> 0:22:06.200 a core function, constitutional function, and anything that he does 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:09.360 regarding pardons cannot be questioned and he cannot be prosecuted. 0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:11.080 So if you went to him to with a million 0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:13.040