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Speaker 1: I think it was a door that opened for then

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Speaker 1: doing this, deciding to make an album and work in

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Speaker 1: a more focused, I guess political way, and I just

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Speaker 1: decided I was going to do it. You know, things

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Speaker 1: just got worse. But I think there's an awakening process

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Speaker 1: also that comes with with the hard times.

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Speaker 2: From It's Latino Usa, I'm Maria Josa Today. The Pan

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Speaker 2: Caribbean rebirth of Rita Indiana, beloved for her gender bending

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Speaker 2: performances and experimental vision for Caribbean music writer and musician,

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Speaker 2: Rita Indiana is a tour de force with her latest album,

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Speaker 2: Branding at Times, Indiana is breaking an almost decade long

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Speaker 2: hiatus from the music scene. A fusion of punk, rock, rap, dembo,

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Speaker 2: heavy metal and regaton. Mending at Times is a defiant manifesto,

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Speaker 2: a reminder that Rita, who's known by her fans as

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Speaker 2: La Montra, which means the monster can't be tamed. The

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Speaker 2: last time I saw Rita perform was in the summer

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Speaker 2: of twenty eleven, playing songs from her debut album El Huidero.

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Speaker 2: The Dominican artist brought a new pulse to Central Park

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Speaker 2: with her electric stage presence. At that point in time,

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Speaker 2: Rita had just experienced a series of commercial successes, amassing

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Speaker 2: her a powerful fan base. Rita Indiana had reached underground

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Speaker 2: cult status in the Dominican Republic from earlier literary projects,

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Speaker 2: but her music stardom became all consuming. After two years

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Speaker 2: of being literally mobbed by fans and having her personal

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Speaker 2: life scrutinized by the media, Rita announced in twenty eleven

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Speaker 2: MEVOI I'm leaving music. She moved to Puerto Rico looking

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Speaker 2: for a quieter life, and she returned to her roots

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Speaker 2: as a writer. Her twenty fifteen novel La Mugama de Omicundle,

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Speaker 2: translated as Tentacle in English, explored queer politics, colonialism, and

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Speaker 2: poverty through a Caribbean sci fi lens. Rita's political activism

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Speaker 2: became focused on her home country. In January of twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 2: the dr erupted in protests over an investigation that revealed

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Speaker 2: executives from the Brazilian engineering company for de Brecht had

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Speaker 2: bribed Dominican officials to the tune of millions of dollars.

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Speaker 2: In the midst of massive street activism, Indiana responded by

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Speaker 2: releasing a single, El Castigador for the Punisher. The song

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Speaker 2: was described as a war cry demanding justice for Dominicans

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Speaker 2: and denouncing corrupt Latin American politicians. That single opened the

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Speaker 2: door for Rita's eventual return to music, Made in collaboration

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Speaker 2: with Dominican dembo artist Hikol Cresi and produced by Eduardo

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Speaker 2: Gavra of Cayetrese. Mandinga Times is Indiana's musical rebirth La

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Speaker 2: montrap Unleashed. I spoke with Rita Indiana about her new album,

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Speaker 2: her queer Pan Caribbean identity, and why she left the

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Speaker 2: music scene ten years ago. Felicia is Rita for becoming

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Speaker 2: I know, I know, I mean, oh my god, what

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Speaker 2: does that feel like?

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Speaker 1: It's crazy. It's like a crazy Matt Love. It's been

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Speaker 1: a really powerful thing for me, and I understand all

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Speaker 1: these magical things I saw, said Aguela, you know, like

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Speaker 1: to be a good witch, you got to be a grandma.

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Speaker 1: So I'm on that journey.

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Speaker 2: Now, Rita. You know that, like when you said that

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Speaker 2: that you were going to leave music, everybody was like gormo.

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Speaker 2: Everybody was gossiping about it. Everyone's like why why what

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Speaker 2: I mean you do know that right?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? It was because I was facing a lot of pressure,

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Speaker 1: you know, to be something that I didn't want to be.

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Speaker 1: I was in the Dominican Republic where I'm from, dealing

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Speaker 1: with fame and a scale that I had never thought of.

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Speaker 1: It couldn't leave the house without having a lot of

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Speaker 1: people on top of me, and it was not good

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Speaker 1: for me. I had a nervous breakdown because of it,

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Speaker 1: and because of other things. I was in the dr

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Speaker 1: doing shows weekly and playing gigs that I shouldn't have played,

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Speaker 1: and hanging out with people I shouldn't have hung out with.

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Speaker 1: It just got to the point where I said, I'm

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Speaker 1: not enjoying this and I don't want to be famous

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Speaker 1: like this. I want to be able to go out

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Speaker 1: and listen to the conversation that the person is a

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Speaker 1: restaurant is having next series where I can write about

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Speaker 1: it later, you know, and just be the one that's

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Speaker 1: looking at, not the one that's looked at.

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Speaker 2: You said you had a mental breakdown. What does that

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Speaker 2: look like? And I'm asking you that because I think

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Speaker 2: sometimes we can get so swept up with the things

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Speaker 2: that we are told that matter, like fame, like money,

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Speaker 2: like everybody talking about you, but we don't necessarily talk

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Speaker 2: about what that can cost you.

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Speaker 1: I think I gave one too many, one hundred too

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Speaker 1: many interviews to people I shouldn't have been giving interviews too.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't come out in the Dominican media. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't in the clause and I was out of the

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Speaker 1: clauset for years. And I spoke about my partner or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and they took a little clip from an interview that

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Speaker 1: I said, oh yeah, I mean, oh yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: my girlfriend this and that, and they played that clip

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Speaker 1: like over one hundred times. I was afraid. I felt,

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Speaker 1: I was like, wow, this is really disgusting. And I

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Speaker 1: wasn't afraid because they were saying I was I was

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Speaker 1: gay or was I was a lesbian. It was because

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Speaker 1: of the way they were doing it, you know, and

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Speaker 1: the way they were exposing.

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Speaker 3: Meal little canceling you out of the seat again and so.

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Speaker 1: Mony to come out of the closet is such a

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Speaker 1: very sophisticated process. For me, it was at least it

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Speaker 1: took many years for me to decide that I was

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Speaker 1: going to tell my mother, that I was going to

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Speaker 1: tell my friends, that I was going to tell my family,

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Speaker 1: or how I was going to do it, you know.

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Speaker 1: So this was very violent, and I decided, I said,

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Speaker 1: you know what, there's no turning back. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: have to.

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Speaker 4: Man up.

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Speaker 1: To me and you know, just do what I have

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Speaker 1: to do. So, I mean, people reacted in ways that

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Speaker 1: I'm still amazed the positive reaction I got from people

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Speaker 1: in barrios and people who you was saying, oh they're home, fo,

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Speaker 1: my chiefe does and we that and I got a

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Speaker 1: lot of love. It was amazing when I embraced it

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Speaker 1: and I said, yes, see, so you gay about aass

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Speaker 1: on ahead problem and I spoke about it freely. I

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Speaker 1: got a lot of support from people that just came

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Speaker 1: up to me, you know, Evangela, Gordonez, that were not

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Speaker 1: preaching to me at all, and they just came up

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Speaker 1: to me one one day in the street that they

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Speaker 1: were like, oh, we like you because you know, you

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Speaker 1: say the truth. We like people like you. So I

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Speaker 1: got a lot of really pretty experiences, beautiful things that

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Speaker 1: happened to me. But I got really really skinny. I

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Speaker 1: couldn't eat, I couldn't no. I was very nervous, very fragile.

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Speaker 1: I was crying a lot. I didn't like it. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't feeling good, you know, I couldn't sleep at night.

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Speaker 1: It was very draining. I wasn't reading. That was the

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Speaker 1: worst thing. I wasn't reading or listening to music when

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Speaker 1: I when that happened, I was like, something's wrong, you know.

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Speaker 2: Coming up on Latino USA, I talked with Rita Indiana

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Speaker 2: about her interest in science fiction and how the pandemic

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Speaker 2: has made her work more political. Stay with us, not say.

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Speaker 4: Yes, you got bango, you got bang.

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Speaker 2: Hey, we're back. And before the break we were talking

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Speaker 2: with Rita Indiana about why she left the music scene

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Speaker 2: ten years ago. Now we're going to talk about how

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Speaker 2: she went back to her writing moods and over time

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Speaker 2: reconnected with music as a way to express her political thoughts.

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Speaker 2: Let's get back to the conversation. Your work now as

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Speaker 2: a writer is really super sci fi, super futuristic. It

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Speaker 2: could not be more far away from the experience of

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Speaker 2: being overwhelmed by fame, and in fact, it's not that

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Speaker 2: different from your new album, which is mandinga Times and

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Speaker 2: the rest of your music. Really, so tell me a

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Speaker 2: little bit about your interest in the genre of futuristic

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Speaker 2: sci fi as a writer, as a creator, as an artist.

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Speaker 1: The only way that I could speak about so many

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Speaker 1: things that once, like in a tentacle camalder Recorde was

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Speaker 1: having this sci fi element. I mean, I didn't go

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Speaker 1: out and say I'm going to write a side. I

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Speaker 1: just wanted to deal with issues of colonialism. And you

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Speaker 1: can't speak about colonialism without speaking of all the time

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Speaker 1: frames involved in slavery, for example, and how that affects

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Speaker 1: us and how that happened. I wanted to speak about

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Speaker 1: the body, and like, how do you speak about the

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Speaker 1: body without speaking about for US immigrants being one body

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Speaker 1: in one place. For example, my aunt, she lived in

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Speaker 1: New York. She came with all her bags in the

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Speaker 1: summer full of presents for everybody. So in Santo Domingo

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Speaker 1: she was the Santa Claus person, you know, who brought

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Speaker 1: joy and things for everybody. But Yayuyah in New York

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Speaker 1: was a factory worker, you know, who had pain in

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Speaker 1: her legs and couldn't walk in the winter and had

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Speaker 1: migraine almost every day of her life. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: how do you write about this multiplicity of the body

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Speaker 1: and of the meaning and capitalism. I also wanted to

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Speaker 1: write about art, and then we go about time again

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Speaker 1: and the history of art and what it has meant

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Speaker 1: and what it means for an art that's making it,

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Speaker 1: you know. So the only way I found to talk

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Speaker 1: about these things was through time travel, not through a

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Speaker 1: machine or like human scientific fermentation, but through nature. Also,

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Speaker 1: another thing I wanted to talk about was for Cambian

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Speaker 1: religious systems and how sophisticated they are. The orishas are

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Speaker 1: basically forces of nature. They're living deities, they exist. So

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Speaker 1: that's another thing that I put into the novel. And

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Speaker 1: all these things the only way I found to talk

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Speaker 1: about them was through a sci fi lens.

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Speaker 2: So you talk about taking this break from music, but

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Speaker 2: even while you took this break, in twenty seventeen, you

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Speaker 2: drop a single. It's in the middle of political turmoil

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Speaker 2: in the Dominican Republic. The name of the song is

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Speaker 2: El Castillador, which is like the Punisher.

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Speaker 5: Room, the Blood, WOA, dormous wild alone.

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Speaker 2: So what happened there? Because you were so clear about

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Speaker 2: not doing very public, big thing music, and yet at

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Speaker 2: that time you drop this single which gets a lot

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Speaker 2: of attention because of the moment that you drop it.

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Speaker 1: In that was a little door that opens for music.

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Speaker 1: It was a very special moment, Like you said in

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Speaker 1: the dr we were struggling with impunity. And I come

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Speaker 1: from a country that has extreme poverty, people who have

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Speaker 1: no water or electricity, and you know, don't don't have

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Speaker 1: a I don't know how to say that in English.

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Speaker 2: A dirt floor, A dirt floor in the capitol.

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Speaker 1: There's like thousands of people who lived this way, and

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Speaker 1: then you have these politicians just like scheming and stealing

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Speaker 1: and it's just it's gross. I had to say something

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Speaker 1: about it. And in a way, Comboca and some of

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Speaker 1: the spirits of el Castigao meaning the spirits of the

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Speaker 1: Dolos lo Caucado, those who have fought for freedom and

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Speaker 1: justice in this continent, many many people who have given

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Speaker 1: their blood and their lives for a just cause.

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Speaker 2: So why did you choose the title Mandinga And what

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Speaker 2: does mandinga actually mean to you as a Dominican artist,

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Speaker 2: And what do you want us to understand about that?

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Speaker 1: Well, Mandinga there's a word that is used in many

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Speaker 1: places in America to name diffything. It's one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest ethnic groups that came to the Americas doing the

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Speaker 1: slave trade, and it's a word that is used for

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Speaker 1: many things, like for a black person, for a witch

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Speaker 1: for a queer person, for someone who's hyper sexual beating

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Speaker 1: is also like going mandinga. And there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: towns and neighborhoods in Latin America that I called Mandinga.

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Speaker 1: The album title is Mandinga Times, so it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like the times that we're living, you know. And when

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Speaker 1: I started making the album, it was kind of like

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Speaker 1: a joke. Oh mandinga Times, Yeah, so cool, And then

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Speaker 1: there was no irony in it. We're in Madluna pandemia

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Speaker 1: and it's really happening. But I feel I've learned faster,

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Speaker 1: and I've become more involved in the politics that affect

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Speaker 1: me and affect my community through my art maybe and

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Speaker 1: through other ways because of the lockdown. And this has

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Speaker 1: changed the way that I interpreted the title of the

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Speaker 1: album and the album itself. Like at the beginning, I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, Mandinga has to deal with, you know,

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Speaker 1: our African roots and minorities and this and that. Then

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Speaker 1: I read this philosopher trans feminist. His name is Paul

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Speaker 1: Pre Siattle, Paul B. Pre Siattle, and he speaks about

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Speaker 1: people not of the margins, but of the crossing. I

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Speaker 1: love that it includes immigrants trans people, queer people, people

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Speaker 1: who live in the crossroads. The place that la is

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Speaker 1: a sacred place for many our Carribean religious So now

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Speaker 1: Mandinga to me, she's like this character that I created

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Speaker 1: because of the name of the album. Mandinga also means

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Speaker 1: to me, like the demonization of the people of the crossings,

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Speaker 1: and I'm trying to subvert that by becoming that demonization,

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Speaker 1: you know, becoming kind of like this weird creature that's

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Speaker 1: coming to tell you, you know what, awaken. Let's see

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Speaker 1: what we need to do to fix this thing, because

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Speaker 1: it doesn't look pretty.

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Speaker 2: So your title track mandingat Times, you work with KEIKOI

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Speaker 2: Crazy was bringing a more kind of eccentric sound to Dembo.

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Speaker 2: Tell us about working with Deko Crazy and about playing

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Speaker 2: around with Dembo and what that was like.

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Speaker 1: Well, Mandina times, I wanted to make a song with

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Speaker 1: Ali Baba, which is a rhythm that you hear. It's

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Speaker 1: a rhythm that they play in the Dominican carnival. It's

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Speaker 1: a very urban phenomenon. Now it's like everywhere and it's

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Speaker 1: played with snare drums and kick drums that are most

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Speaker 1: of them are handmade. It has some elements of folklore

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Speaker 1: of Afro Dominican rhythms, but it's the thing of itself,

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Speaker 1: and it's an urban phenomena, which is what I like,

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Speaker 1: not urban as the mainstream urban music genre. I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about telling that happens in the city. So I wanted

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Speaker 1: to mix that with a little bit of punk rock,

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Speaker 1: reefs and Giko. It was like at first sight. I

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Speaker 1: saw him his videos and I was like, Wow, I

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Speaker 1: like this dude. Man, he's just weird, and I wanted

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Speaker 1: to make some with him, and I called him and

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Speaker 1: he was super excited. He said, oh, I won't die, Yes,

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Speaker 1: do this, and he put himself out there and I

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Speaker 1: left him the most pomp rock parts of the song

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Speaker 1: and he just killed it. I think it's my favorite

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Speaker 1: song on the album.

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Speaker 2: So there's a boom that's happening right now in terms

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Speaker 2: of fusion and Afro roots music in the dr From

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Speaker 2: your last album to this album, you've been playing a

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Speaker 2: lot with these sounds, so it's like another experience. Another

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Speaker 2: Rena said, so, what's that like for you to be

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Speaker 2: seeing that?

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Speaker 1: I just got goosebumps when you were asking the question.

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Speaker 1: It's a very beautiful thing. What's happening in the dr

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Speaker 1: and I think it peaks of maybe us finally coming

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Speaker 1: to terms with the fact that we are after descendants,

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Speaker 1: you know. And it's very beautiful to see all these

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Speaker 1: young kids from very different backgrounds, Blanquito Si and Albario mccleoud,

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Speaker 1: you know, mixing different classes to make these projects.

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Speaker 2: As you know, Latin America is very proud of its

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Speaker 2: different countries. Let's just put it mildly, but there is

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Speaker 2: also a bit of nationalism. Puerto Rico, Los Puerto Ricano's

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Speaker 2: Dominicans are super proud to be Dominican Cubans over here Jamaicans,

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Speaker 2: but you really have now lived a Pan Caribbean experience

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Speaker 2: and it feels like that is as an artist, as

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Speaker 2: a writer and as a musician, you're kind of saying,

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Speaker 2: is que soy del garivee. You're making that on purpose.

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Speaker 2: That's a very specific thing that you're wanting to communicate.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, these little islands, they're separated by water, but

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Speaker 1: they're mostly separated by colonialism. We have very similar histories.

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Speaker 1: Our differences are very little, and the things that connect

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Speaker 1: us are amazingly huge. This culture developed in the same

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Speaker 1: scenario is white people who came and they brought enslaved

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Speaker 1: people's work for them and massacred the bodinadios who were here.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, is this a history of Latin America.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's a history of half of the world,

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Speaker 1: basically the Pan Caribbean saying for me is in a

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Speaker 1: way questioning this colonial a distribution of face and of bodies.

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Speaker 1: Music has been a very important learning tool for me

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Speaker 1: in terms of my identity as a Caribbean person and

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Speaker 1: what it needs to be in our history and how

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Speaker 1: rich the cultures of the enslaved people that were brought

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Speaker 1: here weren't how sophisticated.

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Speaker 2: You know, you talked about being overwhelmed by your fans

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Speaker 2: that you couldn't almost breathe, And now your novel's getting

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Speaker 2: increasingly popular and awarded. So I'm not so sure about

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Speaker 2: what you said about walking away from the fandom and

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Speaker 2: how you do that, because it's like, the truth is

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Speaker 2: is that you have this iconic status. So how are

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Speaker 2: you processing that right now? And as you're thinking about

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Speaker 2: what your next move is as an artist?

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Speaker 1: Well, one thing I did was move to Puerto Rico

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Speaker 1: because I needed this space. Just people say, oh, this tall,

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Speaker 1: lankky person lives in my building. You know, she's so weird,

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Speaker 1: but they don't know who I am. You know, that's

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Speaker 1: amazing that I love that. I'm feeling more comfortable. I've

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Speaker 1: grown a lot, and I've matured a lot, and I

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Speaker 1: think I can handle things better and I don't do

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Speaker 1: things that I don't want to do anymore. I feel

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Speaker 1: more prepared to deal with that and to just explore

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Speaker 1: what a community of followers can give you in terms

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Speaker 1: of being able to put a message out there and

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Speaker 1: create change.

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Speaker 2: No matter where you're from or where you're living. You're

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Speaker 2: an extraordinary artist that pushes us all. So I'm wondering,

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Speaker 2: if you could go back alta Indiana novel kind of way,

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Speaker 2: what would you tell that youngera? What would you tell her?

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't tell her anything, because if I told her

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Speaker 1: something in time travel laws, that's the outcome and I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be here talking to you, So I wouldn't say anything.

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Speaker 2: Hopefully we'll see each other soon and be able to

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Speaker 2: give each other hugs. Trita, Indiana, thank you so much

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Speaker 2: for joining me on.

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Speaker 1: Latio Usa.

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Speaker 5: Mad.

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Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Genie Montalbo and Carli Rubin

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Speaker 2: and edited by Marta Martinez. The Latino USA team includes

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Speaker 2: me and Marcis, and Rea Lopees Crusado, Hujeta Martinelli, Alejandra

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Speaker 2: salasad Rinaldo, Leanos Junior, and Julia Rocha, with help from

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Speaker 2: Raoul Perez. Our engineers are Stephanie l Ba, Julia Caruso

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Speaker 2: and Liah Shaw. Our digital editor is Luis Luna our

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Speaker 2: in Is oscarve Leon. Our theme music was composed by

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Speaker 2: Zena Rubinos. If you like the music you heard on

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Speaker 2: this episode, stop by Latinousa dot org and check out

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Speaker 2: our weekly Spotify playlist. I'm your host and executive producer Magehojosa.

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Speaker 2: Join us again next time, and in the meantime, look

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Speaker 2: for us on all of your social media. I'll see

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Speaker 2: you there. Bye.

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Speaker 6: Funding for Latino USA is coverage of a culture of

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Speaker 6: health is made possible in part by a grant from

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Speaker 6: the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. Latino USA is made possible

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Speaker 6: in part by the Heising Simons Foundation. Unlocking knowledge, opportunity

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Speaker 6: and possibilities. More at hsfoundation dot org and the wind

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Speaker 6: Code Foundation.

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Speaker 2: By'm Mariaojosa. This week on Latino USA, you sent us

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Speaker 2: your questions about the COVID nineteen vaccine and now we've

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Speaker 2: got answer. We address your concerns over how to make

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Speaker 2: a post pandemic future possible. My question is, are vaccines

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Speaker 2: only available for US citizens and legal permanent residents. That's

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Speaker 2: this week on Latino USA