WEBVTT - PRETTY KIND: How to Practice Deep Kindness with Houston Kraft 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.640 The following podcast is a Dear media production. 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:10.240 Big Things Happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever, 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:11.639 pretty strong. 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:13.920 I'm Danielle Robe and each. 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:16.239 Week my guests and I have conversations that put a 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:24.200 new spin on pretty. This is pretty smart. The topic 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:27.320 of kindness dates back to the beginning of time. It's 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:31.360 in the Bible, Koran and Torah. Today, kindness is a 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.640 word we throw around like confetti, be kind to others, 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:39.080 spread kindness, random acts of kindness. But when we strip 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:41.960 the cliches away, is kind of simply the act of 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:44.599 being nice to someone? Or is there more to it? 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:48.640 What does it mean to be deeply actively kind? 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:50.120 Here's what I know. 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:53.639 When we're kind or even witness and active kindness, our 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:57.880 bodies release oxytocin. Oxytocin is sometimes referred to as the 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:01.120 love hormone. It's responsible for all of the warm and 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:04.560 fuzzy feelings. It's what goes through a woman's body during birth. 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:08.959 It binds human beings. There's something to this, but I 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:12.000 have so many questions. What does it take to be 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:15.840 a kind person? Can kindness be learned or practiced? How 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:18.920 about kindness and leadership? Does it pay to be kind 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:21.240 or is there any truth to that phrase? Nice guys, finish? 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:21.640 Last? 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:25.600 Is kindness ever weakness? How does kindness impact our health 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:30.640 and overall well being? Houston Craft spent his career studying kindness, 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:33.040 and now he's written a book on it and is 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:34.880 ready to share all of the answers. 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:37.000 I'm so happy to have you here. 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:40.560 I just did a deep dive into your book, and 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:44.760 the topic of kindness is it should be simple, right. 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:48.520 Kindness seems simple, and yet it's oversimplified. 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:50.040 It actually is really confusing. 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:52.480 So the first thing I want to get into is 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:54.400 what is beneath kindness? 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:56.520 Is what is kindness? 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:00.640 It is the challenge I think of the world itself. 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:04.360 I think we from the time we were really little, 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:06.600 we were told that kindness is worthwhile. I think it's 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:09.160 actually one of the things that we inherently know that 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:10.720 we're wired for connection. 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:16.079 That were wired to desire, belonging and acceptance, which I 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:18.280 think like kindness is the bridge, you know, like, if 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:21.840 I want to experience connection or belonging or depth in 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:25.720 my life, kindness is one vehicle that allows me to 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:26.400 experience that. 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:28.240 And so from the time we're little, we both get 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:30.480 taught it and I think we know it, and I 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:33.160 think there's actually a gap between those two, right, the 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:35.200 things that we like know to be true and the 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:38.840 things that we get told I think are actually confusing. 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:41.680 My career for many years was working in schools as 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:46.040 a motivational speaker. I spoke to six hundred middle schools 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:48.120 and high schools all over the world, and so I 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:51.320 spent a lot of time in like cafeterias and gymnasiums 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:54.239 and cafeinic gymnatoriums. I've been in all kinds of schools, 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:56.560 and I would say that most schools have kindness as 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:59.519 a part of their model or their mission statement. Most organizations, 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:02.040 I think have to some degree part of their ethos 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:04.919 is like service or kindness. But having worked in schools, 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:08.760 I would tell you that I saw the poster just 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:13.560 be kind or throw kindness around like confetti in probably 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:15.240 like ninety percent of the schools that I worked in, 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:17.800 And I think it's one of those really interesting things 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:20.720 we do as a culture where we try to over 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:23.680 promote something in a way that oversimplifies it, and as 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:26.320 a result, I think we actually do more harm than good. 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:30.120 The ethos, like the idea behind a poster that's like 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:33.400 throw kindness around like confetti. Is we should be more generous, 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:36.760 like we should give kindness more frequently. The danger is 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:39.920 that we associate kindness with something that's simple or easier free, 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:43.160 And I think we accidentally have created a narrative in 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:45.560 our culture that kindness is free, and I think that's 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:49.800 actually incredibly damaging because when we think of things as free, 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:52.000 we don't assign value to them. 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:53.680 In our own lives. Wow. 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:56.080 I think we have a really frustrating gap in our 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:59.320 culture between skills and values. Skills would be like whoa 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:02.240 to get a doctorate or to become a professional athlete, 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:05.440 or to acquire the skill requires discipline, practice and training 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:07.960 over time. But with values, we're like, I believe in 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:09.960 kindness and we think that just like believing in a 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:12.240 thing makes us good at a thing. And I would 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:15.400 argue it requires the same amount of discipline and practice 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:18.000 and humility over time to. 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:18.719 Achieve that thing. 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:23.000 So that would be like the first clarification things necessary 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:25.760 is the gap between what we believe in and the 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:29.280 gap between what we do is big because of how 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:30.720 we talk about it and how we teach it. 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:34.720 That was very illuminating. Why do you think some people 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:36.280 are kinder than others. 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:39.800 One of my favorite quotes comes from doctor Ross Green 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:43.000 talk about it in the book. He's a child psychologist, 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:45.279 and he would say that kids do well when they can. 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:47.600 I really love the power and the simplicity of that 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:52.280 statement because the implication there, the motivation behind even saying it, 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:54.280 is I think a lot of adults in kids' lives 0:04:55.000 --> 0:05:00.000 don't always assume best intent, consciously or unconsciously. We sometimes 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.559 assume when someone hurts us, particularly a kid, it's because 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:04.200 they want to get back at us, or they have 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:06.680 ulterior motives, or that they're doing they want to do 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:08.680 their own thing, when in reality, a lot of the 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:12.279 psychology would tell us that young people, our orientation is 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:14.719 actually to feel safe and protected by adults in our life. 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:18.720 We don't want to misbehave quote unquote. He would argue that. 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:22.000 The only reason why someone doesn't do the best they 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:24.320 can is for one of two big categorical reasons. 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:30.160 Number one, lagging skills. Number two unsolved problems. Lagging skills 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:31.320 meaning I don't have. 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:33.720 All the tools in my toolbox to behave in the 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:36.160 way that you're asking me to behave Right now, I'm 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:38.960 not well enough equipped to show up into this scenario 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:43.560 with all the right tools to actually engage in whatever 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:47.480 that is kindness. As an example, Number two unsolved problems 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.039 would be that we have things going on in the 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:54.679 background that affect the foreground. Whether that is individual trauma, 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:59.640 whether that's intergenerational trauma, whether that is community trauma, whether 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:03.560 that's stemic oppression, whatever. Those other things happening in our life, 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:06.200 whether they are bigger than us or whether they're internal 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:09.200 to our own lived experience, those background things, we know 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:13.160 they affect the foreground all the time. My offer in 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:15.880 response to your question is to change doctor ross Green's 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:17.719 quote from kids do well when they can do people 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:20.279 will do well when they can My argument with that, like, 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:22.440 the only reason why we wouldn't offer each other kindness 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:24.640 is I don't know how, or I have other things 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:26.520 happening in my life that make it really hard for 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:27.880 me to show up in kindness. 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:28.080 In this moment. 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:32.720 Wow, So do you think you can become more practiced 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:33.400 at kindness? 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:35.479 Then? Is it something you can learn? 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:36.320 Yeah? 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:39.239 I Actually my philosophy would be that kindness is an outcome. 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:43.040 It's an output and determined by a whole lot of inputs. 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:46.279 The kindness is a behavioral action that we take in 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:50.280 the world that is informed by a lot of social 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:52.919 and emotional skills that are operating the background. Right, my 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:57.000 emotional intelligence is going to inform my behavioral action or 0:06:57.000 --> 0:06:58.640 what I would call like my character, the way that 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:01.040 I show up in the world for myself and other 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:04.640 people around me, And so to get better at something 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:07.240 like kindness the output, I think it's really important to 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:10.040 think about the inputs, what's happening in the background that 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:14.080 shapes my behaviors in the foreground. For example, have I 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:19.040 been trained or taught or practiced emotional regulation? As an example, 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:22.800 do I know, like when I'm feeling big feelings, which 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:25.080 a lot of things in the world can create big 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:28.040 feelings in my life, do I know how to apply 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:29.760 them in kindness in the world. 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:31.520 Anger is a great example. 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:34.640 There's a lot of adults in this world who are 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:36.760 really good at math or science or English or history, 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:39.320 but like don't know how to regulate their emotions when 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:42.760 they're experiencing anger, they don't show up in kindness. I 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:45.880 would also offer that anger can actually have huge implications 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:48.160 to kindness. Anger is a motivating emotion, and if I 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:50.080 know how to regulate it correctly. It can make me 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:54.000 really a passionate advocate in kindness for others, But that's 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:56.840 a skill. Emotional regulation is something that the science would 0:07:56.840 --> 0:08:00.640 tell us we can teach. One vehicle to that, for example, 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:03.280 is emotional awareness. Do I know how to name my 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:05.720 feelings when I'm feeling them. Another vehicle for that, or 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:09.080 potentially related to that, is mindfulness, right taking time to 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:12.760 slow down my mind enough to understand what I'm feeling 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:15.280 in any given moment, as opposed to making myself busy 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:17.560 being busy all the time. Talk about a whole other 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:21.400 category like Another input to kindness would be empathy. Do 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:25.560 I understand what people need around me from their perspective 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:28.000 and not just my own. If I'm not able to 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:31.560 effectively understand or unpack people's needs, I would argue that 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:34.960 kindness gets really hard because I can practice kindness to 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:36.440 you in a way that I think you need it, 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:39.079 but that doesn't guarantee that I'm actually helping you along 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:39.440 the way. 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:43.679 Right as I was looking this up, some of the 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:47.679 things that fell under emotional social learning were empathy, as 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:54.720 you mentioned, good listening skills, generosity, helpful, curious, caring, nurturing, 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:57.640 engage in perspective taking, which I don't know what that means, 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:01.760 but it was interesting to kind of unpack what would 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:05.240 fall under, like how do we get to kindness? Because 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:07.640 it for me this was like a label that felt 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:09.760 up to So thank you for clearing that up a 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:10.199 little bit. 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:15.240 Yeah, the words you offered are I would say, categorically 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:19.880 representative of empathy. And my friend Barbara says, empathy gives kindness. 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:22.800 It's why I think empathy is actually like probably the 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:26.280 most important ingredient that lives behind the scenes when it 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:29.320 comes to practicing kindness. And empathy is another one of 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:32.640 those words that gets thrown around a lot but is misunderstood, 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:36.079 partially because it actually involves a lot of different components. 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:38.920 A guy named doctor jimil Zaki out of Stanford. He 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:40.880 wrote a book called The War for Kindness. He says 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:44.120 empathy is an umbrella term that captures three big skills 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:44.480 in our. 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:48.360 Life, sharing, thinking, and caring. Sharing. 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:50.640 We could think of as like the emotional side of empathy. 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:54.000 Do I understand what you're feeling? Do I feel what 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:56.960 you feel? Can I feel alongside you? And it's actually 0:09:57.000 --> 0:10:00.200 the most like naturally inborn thing that we have. We 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:02.480 laugh at babies. Babies tend to smile and laugh back 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:06.200 at us. We're always looking to repeat or experience other 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:09.400 people's emotions, and particularly people who would be impaths are 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:11.880 like really sensitive to that to be kind of exhausting 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:14.680 sometimes to constantly tap into that. The second one would 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:18.360 be thinking. It's like the cognitive side of empathy. Perspective taking, 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:22.439 as you offered organizationally in my company called character Strong, 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:26.160 we actually reframed perspective taking. We call it perspective getting 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:29.280 because taking implies I get just just to stand where 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:32.480 I'm at and like take from things around me. Getting 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:36.439 implies work, which is what I think perspective getting actually is. 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:40.920 It's like going out and listening. Really understanding a different 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:44.559 perspective than your own. Requires me to be vulnerable, requires 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:47.600 me to be humbled, requires me to engage with people 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:50.360 who are different than me. It requires me to not 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:52.240 always to want to be right all the time, which 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.920 is something really hard to deprogram in our society. So 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:59.800 there's sharing, the emotional side, thinking, the cognitive side, and 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:03.160 the caring, which is the kindness side. It's how we 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:07.640 operationalize sharing and thinking into action. It's saying, Okay, now 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:09.760 that I have a sense of how you're feeling, and 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:11.760 now that i'm like trying to see the world through 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:14.600 your eyes to recognize that your needs might be different 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:17.880 than mine, I'm going to do something to alleviate your suffering. 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:22.280 It's how empathy translates into compassion. It's how we suffer 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:26.160 alongside people and then use whatever resources we can to 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:30.040 alleviate pain, because it is entirely possible, as I think 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:32.320 probably every person on this planets it experience at one 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:34.640 point in another to hurt, for someone to feel bad, 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:37.199 for someone to even understand why they're hurting. 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:38.640 And still do nothing to help. 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:42.400 That's where compassion or empathy turns into kindness, and I 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:43.240 think that's a big deal. 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:47.199 So I love your book so much, and I read 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:50.240 a lot of books, and I always think if if 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.920 I'm not hooked in the first three pages, it's hard 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:57.520 for me to get into it. The beginning story in 0:11:57.559 --> 0:11:59.600 your book is so good, and it's an offshoot of 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:01.440 what you just said. I was hoping you could share 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:01.920 it with us. 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:05.480 Yeah, we learned best through stories. Yeah, that's why I 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:09.080 love being a theater major. I was never very a 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:12.319 very good actor, But I believe deeply in sharing stories 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:15.880 on any sort of platform in a way that invited 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:19.199 other people in to recognize how whatever this story is 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:22.199 intersects with yours. Maybe you're like me and you've been 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:24.440 on an airplane before in the middle seat. It's my 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:28.040 least favorite seat on any public transportation. I'm claustrophobic, called 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:29.800 the hot dog seat because people's buns are on the 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:33.200 other side of me. And I remember this particular day, 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:36.120 it's now a decade ago in my life, where this 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:38.200 woman shows up and has a seat next to me. 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:41.320 And maybe you've been in the situation where someone wants 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:43.680 to talk to you and you are not in the 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:46.480 mood to talk. That's what this woman did this day. 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:48.559 She tapped me on the shoulder, took out a headphone, 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:51.840 which was intentionally in to prevent this exact scenario. I 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:54.280 was like, can I help you. She's like, my name 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:56.480 is Helga. I was like, this is not how I 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:57.560 was intending to help you. 0:12:57.640 --> 0:12:59.320 It's just by engaging in small talk. 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:02.040 I believe in kindness, so I was like trying to 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:04.760 show up in that moment, and she starts asking me 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:06.439 all kinds of questions. At some point she asked me 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:08.280 what I did for work, and I explained that I 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:11.520 worked in schools. Talking about kindness, she got very serious 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:14.520 and told me the story of how the last time 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:17.079 she was on an airplane before her and I ever met, 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:19.840 was three years prior, when she'd woken up in the 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:22.240 morning and gotten a phone call from her dad that 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:25.400 her dad was headed. Her dad's doctor explaining that her 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:27.520 dad was headed to the hospital. They didn't live in 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:30.640 the same state, which meant that Helga. Helga had to 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:33.400 get on a plane to fly from Washington to Arizona, 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:35.560 and when she sits down on the plane to take 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:37.559 off to see her dad, she gets the phone call 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.599 that he's passed away. I'll never forget Helga telling me 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:43.240 this story and explaining to me that she was on 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:44.800 her way to go and see him, when then she 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:47.440 learned that she lost him, And then she was surrounded 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:50.000 by strangers on a plane for three hours. It's a 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:52.800 lonely flight. She lands in the airport, she walks to 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:56.679 the nearest wall. She falls down. She said, have you 0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:58.880 ever gotten new so bad? Your body stops working right. 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:01.880 She put her head her hands and she wept, and 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:05.319 she explains that for two hours. She sat there crying. 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:07.720 I'll let you know, Helga has a good sense of humor. 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:09.760 She goes, Houston. I should be clear, I'm not a 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:12.880 pretty crier. I'm not a quiet crier. She goes, it's 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:16.800 loud and it's aggressive. People noticed. She goes Houston. 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:17.280 Two hours. 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:19.440 If I had to guess, there's probably three thousand people 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:21.080 in the airport around me going to their planes or 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:24.200 getting off their planes. Used in two hours, three thousand people, 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:26.280 not one, not a single person stopped. 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:27.480 And she looks at me. 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:28.920 She goes, you have no idea how much I could 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:31.600 use in act to kindness that day. The thing she 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:33.880 said next is really shaped, honestly, a lot of my 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:35.560 career and a big part of the reason I wrote 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:38.400 the book. She said, you know what I realized that day, 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:41.400 and the airport is three thousand people walked by. It 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:44.480 occurred to me that kindness isn't normal. It's not normal 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:47.800 in our world to be kind. And I remember, and honestly, 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:50.000 I sit with that question just about every day in 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:54.280 my work, because I am fascinated in why why is 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:55.720 it that if you were to ask any of the 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:57.960 three thousand people in the airport that day. Do you 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:00.360 believe in kindness? My guess is all three one thousand 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.520 of them would tell you yes. Why is it then 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:04.840 that all three thousand of them walked by an opportunity 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:07.240 for it? Why is it when I ask myself the 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:08.360 question would I stop? 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:09.640 Which I do? 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:11.600 Anytime I tell the story, it forces me to ask 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:14.840 that question, what I stop today? And today my honest 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:16.520 answer is probably know. And I feel like I have 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:19.600 all kinds of quote unquote ballid excuses. Tired is the 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:21.240 end of a long day. I have places to go, 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:22.920 I have people to see. What if she doesn't want 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:24.320 my help? But if I don't have anything that offered her, 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:26.000 I got no energy in my tank, like there's any 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:28.640 reason that I could offer to say no? But I 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:31.040 think the story is important because it offers me a 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:34.080 space to force myself into that self confrontation. 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:37.520 Where's the gap? The gap between what I say I. 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:40.840 Believe in and what I actually do, how I actually 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.320 show up in the world. Because it's entirely possible to 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:45.200 believe in a thing and not live into it. We 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:47.840 do it all the time. The Greeks have a word 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:52.160 for it. It's a crazia. Crazy translates to our weakness 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:55.800 of will are knowing that something is important or right, 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:59.120 and our decision not to do it anyways, And I 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:02.200 feel frustrated that kindness is one of those things. And 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:04.680 so my goal, my aim, and my work in the 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:06.440 book and the work that I do in education, is 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:07.960 to figure out how do we close that gap. 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:11.080 I got really emotional when you told that story, and 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:13.840 I got emotional when I read it. I'm still not 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:17.280 sure why. I was trying to think about why. 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:18.400 I think it's. 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:22.360 Because I feel as if I am I'm only where 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:26.120 I am in my personal life or my professional life 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:28.800 because people showed me kindness. It's why the title of 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:30.840 your book stuck out to me so much. It's such 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:35.440 it's a value I hold. I think everybody has different 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:37.680 values that they hold in a different order in their 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:40.880 life based on their upbringing and what's important, and kindness 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:43.720 is a value I hold really high up there. So 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:47.440 I think that your movement of kindness should be up 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:52.120 there with Brene Brown's movement of vulnerability. It is, it 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:56.200 is the underpinning of so much. What do we do 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:59.520 when we don't know how to be kind? When we 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:01.000 don't know how to do the kind thing. 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:03.000 A few reflections. 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:08.640 One is I appreciate your invitation to explore why that 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:12.000 that is an emotional story, not only for yourself but 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:15.040 for other people. I think it's it's easy to walk 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:18.320 past that as a simple like parable, as like why 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:21.399 kindness is important, But I would offer that I think 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:23.560 for a lot of people, we've all been some version 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:25.840 of Helga. If you haven't been yet, I think we 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:28.320 all will be, or we've been on the far side 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:31.119 of that. We've been in an incredibly low or lonely 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:33.680 moment and someone has offered us something in that moment 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:38.479 that has made all the difference, has transformed or shifted 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:41.720 your trajectory in some small way that over time was 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.160 actually a really big way. What do we do when 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:47.040 we don't know how to practice kindness in a moment, 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:51.760 If that's where we're starting from, If that's like our 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:55.840 first question, the invitation is to get curious, is to 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:58.640 ask a lot of questions. A story that I think 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:02.560 about often as it relates to empathy is the story 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:05.840 of the Sandy Hook shooting. There's this moment of collective 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:09.639 trauma in our country where literally we have children being 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:13.080 shot at a school and in moments of trauma or tragedy, 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:16.040 as we've seen now since George Floyd or what happened 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:19.800 in Atlanta, when we see moments of hate lived out 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:23.639 in really profound ways, we have a collective visceral response. 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:27.120 Now there's a whole layer there to talk about, which 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:30.159 is why we wait for trauma to happen until we 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:34.040 come around it with kindness or generosity. But nonetheless, I 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:36.439 think a lot of people do respond. People will have 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:40.240 a genuine desire to help in moments of profound hurt. 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:41.280 So many. 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:44.959 In fact, when Sandy Hook happened shortly afterwards, people from 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:46.960 all over the world wanted to offer kindness, so people 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:49.760 sent stuffed animals teddy bears globally from all over the 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:52.000 world because it was young people who'd lost their life, 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:54.840 and it was so many teddy bears that the town 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:57.800 of Newtown, Connecticut had to rent a twenty thousand square 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:00.720 foot warehouse just to house all the inbound gifts. One 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:03.600 of the people that helped run the candlelit vigil said 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:06.240 that there were more stuffed animals present than there were people. 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:08.760 And here's the quote that got me. He said, you know, 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:10.359 a teddy bear is great, but a teddy bear doesn't 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:12.080 pay for counseling, and a teddy bear doesn't pay for 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:12.560 a funeral. 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:14.480 I remember reading that and thinking. 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:15.959