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Speaker 1: The Pope cast away idols, Remember Pacha Mama and why

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Speaker 1: are conversions rising all over the world.

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Speaker 2: The Prayerful Posse has some thoughts.

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Speaker 1: Next, Welcome to this Arroyo Grande series, The Prayerful Posse.

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Speaker 1: Let's convene the Posse joining me Father Gerald Murray, canon

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Speaker 1: lawyer from the Archdiocese of New York, and Robert Royal,

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Speaker 1: editor in chief of the Catholic Thing. And I'm rayam

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Speaker 1: an Arroyo. Go subscribe to the Arroyo Grande Show channel

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Speaker 1: on iHeart, Apple, Spotify, or YouTube wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: We don't want you to miss an episode of the Posse.

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Speaker 2: Jens.

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Speaker 1: I want to start with a big story that got

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Speaker 1: very little coverage. Most of you remember the scandal in

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen at that Amazonian synod in the Vatican Gardens

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Speaker 1: when Pope France is blessed a Pacha Mama idol. Well,

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Speaker 1: now Pope Leo in the most elegant of way, it

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Speaker 1: seems to be putting the idle scandal in the rear

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Speaker 1: view mirror. In a telegram to the Amazonian bishops, he writes,

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Speaker 1: no less evident is the right and duty to care

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Speaker 1: for the home that God the Father has entrusted to

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Speaker 1: us as diligent stewards, so that no one irresponsibly destroys

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Speaker 1: the natural goods that speak of the goodness and beauty

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Speaker 1: of the Creator, nor much less subjects one's self to

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Speaker 1: them as a slave or worshiper of nature, since things

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Speaker 1: have been given to us in order to attain our

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Speaker 1: end of praising God and thus obtaining the salvation of

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Speaker 1: our souls. Father, your reaction, particularly to that line worshiper

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Speaker 1: of nature.

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Speaker 3: This is a great statement from Pope Leo because it's

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Speaker 3: exactly refuting what those who brought the Patchemama statue, which

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Speaker 3: is an earth mother goddess statue. They brought it to

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Speaker 3: the Vatican to try and say that this is the

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Speaker 3: authentic spirituality of the Amazonian people, and Poblio was saying, no,

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Speaker 3: it's slavery to nature worship. In fact, that really is

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Speaker 3: at root what paganism is. Paganism is the darkness of

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Speaker 3: not knowing the Creator and treating the creation as somehow divine,

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Speaker 3: and the Pope saying, no, Jesus Christ is the source

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Speaker 3: of salvation and we must not confuse people by saying that,

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Speaker 3: you know, there's such a thing as an earth goddess,

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Speaker 3: or that we should treat creation as if it were God.

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Speaker 3: No creation should be respected, but it should become an

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Speaker 3: instrument of salvation, and pagan idols have no place in that.

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Speaker 2: They have to be cast out, Bob.

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Speaker 1: Even Pope Francis apologized for the Patromama thing half heartedly,

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Speaker 1: but Pope Leo went on to say, this week, where

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Speaker 1: the name of Jesus is preached in justice recedes proportionally.

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Speaker 1: Talk to me about that and your take on this

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Speaker 1: subtle It is a gentle correction, if you will, of

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Speaker 1: this whole Pacha Mama episode.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mentioned this before, but we can see that

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Speaker 4: that Pope Leo is a different animal than Pope Francis,

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Speaker 4: that even though they may share some points of view,

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Speaker 4: he has a much more kind of peaceful, you know,

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Speaker 4: less revolutionary type pope. And so one of the dramas that,

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Speaker 4: of course, I think is going to be playing out

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Speaker 4: is he's going to be his own man and having

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Speaker 4: to find some way to gently distance himself from certain

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Speaker 4: positions that Francis took. And this there's a prime example

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Speaker 4: that in a way Francis was able to accept the

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Speaker 4: fact that Pacha Mama was on sacred territory in the Vatican.

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Speaker 4: He actually kind of defiantly after people pushed back against

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Speaker 4: this a plant that was associated with with this idol

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Speaker 4: on the altar. And you know, ever since the first

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Speaker 4: days of the Church, it's been a constant teaching that

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Speaker 4: the the gods and goddesses of other people's are demons.

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Speaker 4: They are not just kind of an expression of this

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Speaker 4: or that. Now, as to that question about justice retreating,

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Speaker 4: when we retreat from Christ, of course that's going to

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Speaker 4: happen because Jesus is the one through whom the world

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Speaker 4: was created. The Gospels tell us that, and of course

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Speaker 4: the order that He's built into creation is going to

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Speaker 4: follow what he, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have

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Speaker 4: put together for our sake as human beings. So if

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Speaker 4: we depart from that order, we're not only going to

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Speaker 4: harm nature, we're going to harm our own human nature,

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Speaker 4: harm one another. So I think that this is just

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Speaker 4: a wonderful statement that he's made. It's a subtle statement,

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Speaker 4: it's not a kind of in your face statement. But

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Speaker 4: if he continues to do this sort of thing, I

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Speaker 4: think we're going to be in a very, very different place,

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Speaker 4: in just a very short time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I thought it was a needed corrective and

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Speaker 1: I wish it would have gotten more attention.

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Speaker 2: So here the posse will give it the attention. Okay.

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Speaker 1: Our conversions to Christianity and Catholicism specifically on the rise,

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Speaker 1: according to data by KARA, that's the Center for Applied Research.

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Speaker 1: It's to an apostolate at Georgetown and they examine all

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Speaker 1: this data about the church and its growth or its recession.

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Speaker 1: The Catholic Church in the US may be in a

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Speaker 1: period of renewal. If you look at the data, for

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Speaker 1: the first time in two decades, more are joining the

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Speaker 1: church than leaving.

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Speaker 2: The adult conversions are on the rise.

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Speaker 1: The numbers are complex, but given the role that immigration

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Speaker 1: has played since twenty twenty, births within Catholic families, if

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Speaker 1: measured by infant baptisms, is now half of what it.

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Speaker 2: Was back in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 1: But at the beginning of the millennium, adult conversions were

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Speaker 1: about one hundred and seventy five thousand annually. By twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty that number dropped to around seventy thousand, but in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five it's being projected up at one hundred

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Speaker 1: sixty thousand American adults entering the church Father, what are

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Speaker 1: Americans searching for?

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Speaker 2: And why are these conversions occurring?

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Speaker 3: Now, do you think, Well, adult conversions I think are

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Speaker 3: a direct result of people dissatisfied with the secular culture

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Speaker 3: that surrounds them. And then we also have a large

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Speaker 3: group of people who are Protestant evangelicals and they're looking

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Speaker 3: for a sacramental, hierarchical church. They're not simply looking for

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Speaker 3: preachers who set up their own churches, and then you

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Speaker 3: know they're they're basically the law.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 3: They want to see God's laws mediated through a divine structure.

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Speaker 3: So when they find the Catholic Church, that answers that question.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: The problem, of course with all these statistics is that

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Speaker 3: it's very evident that the percentage of Catholics attending Mass

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Speaker 3: has gone way down. So, you know, I was looking

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Speaker 3: at statistics recently about, you know, how people practice their faith.

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Speaker 3: It's a sad statistic the percentage of baptized Catholters get

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Speaker 3: married in a church wedding that's gone way down. So

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Speaker 3: it's sort of a battle of statistics. And I won't

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Speaker 3: get into because I'm not a statistician, but I can

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Speaker 3: say there are a lot of adult conversions in an

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Speaker 3: era when we're challenged in our culture. But the people

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Speaker 3: who are practicing people are Catholics and baptized, they don't

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Speaker 3: seem to be getting the fire. I think we lose

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Speaker 3: ninety percent of baptized Catholics by the time they graduate

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Speaker 3: from college. That was one statistic I saw. So conversions

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Speaker 3: are great, but we need people raise as Catholics to

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Speaker 3: take the faith seriously.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I'm going to I pulled up some

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Speaker 1: of those statistics, Bob. While the growing converts in Catholicism,

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Speaker 1: number baptized Catholics who still identify is about sixty two percent.

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Speaker 1: That's down from eighty four percent in nineteen seventy three.

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Speaker 2: But as father mentioned, the number of cradle.

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Speaker 1: Catholics who attend Mass each week is around eleven percent.

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Speaker 2: Now what do you make of that?

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, I look at these numbers and I

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Speaker 4: want to be encouraged by don't let me start by

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Speaker 4: saying that. But I sometimes feel, and I'm sorry to

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Speaker 4: be cynical about this, It's like, you know, if you've

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Speaker 4: ever had a family member die or a friend die,

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Speaker 4: you kind of look for signs of health and you know,

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Speaker 4: something good happens and this fever goes down and they're

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Speaker 4: eating again. And this, to me is simply not robust enough.

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Speaker 4: I welcome it. I hope it continues to grow. But

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Speaker 4: there's a larger battle that's going on in the culture,

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Speaker 4: and we see it, as Father rightly says, kids graduate

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Speaker 4: from college. And if you've lost ninety percent of your

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Speaker 4: Catholics when they graduate from college, which is a large

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Speaker 4: percentage of our people in America these days, I don't

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Speaker 4: know how you do anything about that, except I think

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Speaker 4: the church has to really dig deep and begin to

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Speaker 4: teach again. I mean, begin to teach at the grade

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Speaker 4: school level, at the high school level, at the college level,

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Speaker 4: and authentic teaching. You know, we basically have a public

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Speaker 4: school system in the United States now that is a

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Speaker 4: propagator of atheism, of LGBT rights, of all those things

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Speaker 4: that militate against the faith. The Church has to find

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Speaker 4: a way to protect its people, growing up form them

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Speaker 4: so that they can oppose what the rest of the

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Speaker 4: culture is trying to impose on them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Father.

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Speaker 1: Some commentators have attributed this rise in conversions that they

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Speaker 1: call it the Francis effect.

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Speaker 2: I call it the COVID effect because.

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Speaker 1: It after COVID when I think yet all these people isolated,

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Speaker 1: they came out and they were looking for something to

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Speaker 1: fill the void, to fill the loneliness, to fill all

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Speaker 1: the questions that they were encountering, you know, while in

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Speaker 1: lockdown your thoughts.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I mean, it's hard to attribute it to

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Speaker 3: pot Francis specifically because we don't see a wave of

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Speaker 3: people saying that or identifying. If anything, I think the

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Speaker 3: Latin Mass Group inspired a lot of people. I think

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Speaker 3: the Evangelical to Catholic movement, you know, Scott Hahn and others.

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Speaker 3: This has been a forty now almost fifty year wave

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Speaker 3: of former Protestants who are serious and religious people, but

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Speaker 3: they become Catholic. But you know, back to Bob, I agree.

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Speaker 3: I want to be optimistic, but I'm a pastor of

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Speaker 3: a parish and I look at the percentage of people

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Speaker 3: in the parish who are active on Sunday to Sunday basis,

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Speaker 3: and there's a whole generation missing. People between ages twenty

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Speaker 3: to forty are not proportionally represented, as are people from

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Speaker 3: ages sixty to eighty. That makes me nervous because that

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Speaker 3: I think is the fruit of those people in the

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Speaker 3: younger group not having a solid Catholic education. If you

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Speaker 3: don't learn the seriousness of doctrine, prayer and charity in

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Speaker 3: school as a kid, how are you going to pick

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Speaker 3: it up later. That's a real challenge for us.

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Speaker 2: Now the schools have to do it. I mean, Bob

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Speaker 2: touched on this.

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Speaker 1: The catecasus is critical, but explaining the why behind the what.

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Speaker 1: You know, they see the mass, but do they understand

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Speaker 1: the movements and the historical connections of what it means

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Speaker 1: to the larger salvation history story. And I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: that's being imparted, but you do see. I got to

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Speaker 1: tell you in my local parish and where this Latin

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Speaker 1: mass community is here in New Orleans, for sure it

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Speaker 1: is packed out with young people. If Orthodoxy sells and

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Speaker 1: that's what people want more of, why not give that

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Speaker 1: to them with a robust catechetical program.

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Speaker 4: Bob, Yeah, I agree with you entirely about this. I mean,

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Speaker 4: there are multiple pieces to this. One is that kind

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Speaker 4: of almost flight into health. That's an old psychoanalytic term,

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Speaker 4: but you know, people kind of they're so they're feeling

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Speaker 4: so awful that the only only alternative left just to

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Speaker 4: become healthy again. But you know, the people who have

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Speaker 4: studied this problem kind of globally. One of my one

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Speaker 4: of our researchers, Mary Aberstad at the Faith and Reason Institute,

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Speaker 4: has done a very interesting book about how the West

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Speaker 4: lost God and one of the reasons it's lost God.

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Speaker 4: One of the primary reasons is that she says, we've

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Speaker 4: lost the faith because we've lost the family. That it's

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Speaker 4: important not only to hear about the dogmas, not only

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Speaker 4: to have the explanations, but to actually live in your

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Speaker 4: home in a community where a mother and a father

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Speaker 4: show you what it's like to live as a Catholic.

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Speaker 4: Have other friends who live as Catholics have communities in

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Speaker 4: which they're supported. So there are many different pieces to this,

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Speaker 4: but I think you're exactly right that one of the

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Speaker 4: reasons why that boost and the young people is precisely

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Speaker 4: because they know that anything else is simply inadequate. The

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Speaker 4: Southern novelist Walker Percy once was asked, well, why are

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Speaker 4: you a Catholic? And he said, what else is there?

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Speaker 1: Another New Orleans boy? Thanks for bringing it all home, Bob.

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Speaker 1: The real story here is gen Z and the Malays. Okay,

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Speaker 1: all over the internet you see young people eighteen to

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Speaker 1: twenty year old guys particularly drawn to faith, especially the

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Speaker 1: mass Barna found that thirty million more adults professed a

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Speaker 1: commitment to Christ in twenty twenty five. Now that's a

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Speaker 1: broad question, but over in the UK there's an interesting

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Speaker 1: shift going on among young adults there. Based on Yugov stats,

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Speaker 1: belief in God has more than doubled in the last

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Speaker 1: four years, along with a similar increase in church attendance. Now,

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Speaker 1: admittedly the data is not specific to Christianity, but father,

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Speaker 1: there's clearly a shift among young people in Europe and

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Speaker 1: the United States. I mean, you saw a million young

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Speaker 1: people coming to see Pope Leo this summer. What do

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Speaker 1: you think they're reacting to and what are they searching

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Speaker 1: for that they're discovering in these churches across the UK

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Speaker 1: and the United States.

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Speaker 3: Well, I go back to the perennial questions. We're all

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Speaker 3: faced with, where did I come from? Why am I here?

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Speaker 3: What am I supposed to do? And what happens when

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Speaker 3: I die? And only religious faith can answer those questions?

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Speaker 3: And only I maintain as a Catholic brief, only the

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Speaker 3: Catholic faith can give that answer. Other religions get partial answers.

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Speaker 3: Now the questions are asked, of course, by people who

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Speaker 3: are sated with diversion and entertainment. And you know, I

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Speaker 3: love entertainment. I like a good opera, I like a

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Speaker 3: good orchestra, I like going a baseball game. But in

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Speaker 3: the morning, when I wake up, I don't think am

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Speaker 3: I on this planet in order to go to entertainment venues?

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Speaker 3: You know, No, that's a distraction necessary, but it's supposed

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Speaker 3: to be something that motivates me to enjoy the main

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Speaker 3: part of life, which is fulfilling my responsibilities. And modern

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Speaker 3: Western man, you know, is in flight from responsibility in

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Speaker 3: so many ways. So people realize that you're not satisfied

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Speaker 3: simply by watching videos all day. There's got to be

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Speaker 3: something more. And that's where the Catholic Church comes in.

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Speaker 3: And that's precisely where I think a lot of young

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Speaker 3: people are saying, I need more in life than what

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Speaker 3: the world is selling.

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Speaker 2: It's curious, Bob.

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Speaker 1: Young people are finding the church via the internet, you know,

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Speaker 1: they're listening to these discussions of history and dogma tradition,

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Speaker 1: and it's fascinating to them. But studies are also showing

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Speaker 1: and getting back to the UK. A decline in membership

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Speaker 1: in the Church of England, Okay, there's a steady increase

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Speaker 1: in the membership in.

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Speaker 2: The Catholic Church.

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Speaker 1: In fact, the Catholic population there is expected to surpass

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Speaker 1: the population of the Anglican Church for the first time

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Speaker 1: since Henry the Eighth broke away in the sixteenth century.

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Speaker 1: What are the drivers here and what does it mean

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Speaker 1: culturally to England.

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Speaker 4: Well, look, I don't want to criticize the Anglicans, because

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Speaker 4: there is an Anglican tradition that is quite lovely to

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Speaker 4: beautiful liturgy is I think that that sacramentally in theological

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Speaker 4: however they're wanting and as we know, they've been extremely

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Speaker 4: progressive in recent years or ordaining women priests, women bishops.

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Speaker 4: There may even be a female Archbishop of Canterbury before long,

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Speaker 4: which would be quite something. And they basically stand for

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Speaker 4: nothing in nothing solid in British society other than a tradition.

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Speaker 4: So I'm not surprised that these young people who find

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Speaker 4: no solidity anywhere around them turn to a place that

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Speaker 4: is asserting something that they can embrace and stand on

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Speaker 4: and it'll help them through their lives. Now, I want

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Speaker 4: to be a little cautious about this, because I do

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Speaker 4: know a little bit about the situation, at least in London,

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Speaker 4: where some of my friends, their priests and others tell

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Speaker 4: me that part of the number, these larger numbers that

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Speaker 4: we're seeing are propped up by immigrants. They're immigrants from Poland,

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Speaker 4: they're immigrants from Vietnam, And when you go into churches,

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Speaker 4: that's a lot of what you see in addition to

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Speaker 4: the older people. But in any event, it's an interesting thing,

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Speaker 4: and no doubt that energy that begins to be generated

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Speaker 4: in those churches will begin to spill over into other

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Speaker 4: things in the society. And let's face it, England faces

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Speaker 4: a very very serious Muslim challenge right now. There are

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Speaker 4: some people that claim that they are headed for civil

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Speaker 4: war because they have militant Islam that is kind of

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Speaker 4: imposing itself on the society. And so the British people

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Speaker 4: in general are going to be looking for something else,

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Speaker 4: and it's going to be the only body in Christendom

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Speaker 4: that has stood up to Islam in the past, and

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Speaker 4: I'm quite confident that that's going to help the church

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Speaker 4: in that country as well.

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Speaker 2: Father, you want to mention anything there before we move on. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: No, the Church of England, their leaders themselves are kind

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Speaker 3: of writing their obituary because they know that they are

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Speaker 3: not in a position of growth. And sad to say,

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Speaker 3: the Church of England is functions as a government department.

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Speaker 3: I mean it depends on the English monarchy and the

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Speaker 3: Parliament for the nomination of its bishops and the like.

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Speaker 3: And the doctrine, as Cardinal Newman saw when he converted,

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Speaker 3: the doctrine is not the fullness of Christianity. So all

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Speaker 3: of these things lead to an inevitable wash out when

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Speaker 3: you stop talking about Jesus and start talking about, you know,

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Speaker 3: community organizing. And we have to be careful of that.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's we talked about pab Leo him

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Speaker 3: mentioning the centrality of Christ in the Amazon. That applies

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Speaker 3: everywhere England, US wherever.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 1: And you see when we hear this talk of ordaining

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Speaker 1: women in the Catholic Church and they're doing these study groups,

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Speaker 1: I always say, well, there's.

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Speaker 2: Already a communion that's done this. They've tried all of this.

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Speaker 1: Look what's happened to the Anglican community, to Episcopalianism. It's

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Speaker 1: a shattered communion at this point, you've got people, you know,

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Speaker 1: exercising different strains and finding their own theology as they go,

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Speaker 1: because there's no unity around the ancient doctrine of the

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Speaker 1: Church and what Christ established. So this is going to

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Speaker 1: work itself out, but I think it will have seismic

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Speaker 1: impacts upon the future true of England and the monarchy,

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Speaker 1: as you mentioned, Father, because the Church of England and

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Speaker 1: that monarchy is so tied together.

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Speaker 2: I want to talk about something.

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Speaker 1: Cardinal unders Arborellius of Stockholm in Sweden, he's warning his

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Speaker 1: flock against attending liturgies by the Society of Saint Pius

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Speaker 1: the Tenth. Now they're sismatic traditional mass community. He's calling

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Speaker 1: for unity in the diocese since the canonical status of

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Speaker 1: SSPX is still questionable, though we acknowledge that their sacraments

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Speaker 1: are valid. Bob, why is the cardinal making this distinction?

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Speaker 1: And I mean if Pope Francis hadn't all but banned

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Speaker 1: the traditional at mask, might this have not been a

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Speaker 1: problem at all?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean sadly, you know, Sweden, which is a

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Speaker 4: highly secularized country. The believers in a country like that

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Speaker 4: are in battle to begin with, and so I think

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Speaker 4: part of it probably is he's just trying to protect

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Speaker 4: Catholics from inauthentic or schismatic groups that it might be

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Speaker 4: around them. But look, Francis actually showed some uncharacteristic generosity,

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Speaker 4: I would say, toward the SSPX at certain points in

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Speaker 4: his papacy, and so it may be possible in other

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Speaker 4: contexts that some of that problem with the SSPX can

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Speaker 4: be resolved. I'm hoping that Leo, who's got a more

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Speaker 4: gentle and interesting touch in these matters, I think we'll

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Speaker 4: be able to do something about it. But of course,

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Speaker 4: why not When the SSPX came in, as I understand

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Speaker 4: this story, they came in and without any permission, celebrated

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Speaker 4: a Mass. If I were the bishop of a small flock,

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Speaker 4: I'd be very worried about, especially in the state of

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Speaker 4: the education that most Catholics have, as we talked about earlier,

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Speaker 4: that they not be confused about what's going on, and

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Speaker 4: we keep them close because I think, as he said

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Speaker 4: in that statement, the Church is one because it's in

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Speaker 4: unity with the Holy Father and with.

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Speaker 2: The universe Church.

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Speaker 4: And you want to send that message in a place

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Speaker 4: like Sweden to your Catholics.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Father wouldn't the better way to send the

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Speaker 1: message be, Look, guys, I'm offering the traditional light mass

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Speaker 1: here at the cathedral.

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Speaker 2: Come here, this is the fullness.

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Speaker 3: That would be a good thing. But let me put

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Speaker 3: my canon law head on and say the Pious the

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Speaker 3: Tenth is no longer excommunicated. You know the bishops where

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Speaker 3: the ex communicants were lifted. One of the reasons they

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Speaker 3: were excommunicated was because it was called a sismatic act

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Speaker 3: to consecrate bishops without papal permission. That was taken away.

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Speaker 3: So I don't think it's fair to call them sismatic

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Speaker 3: group anymore. On the other hand, the Cardinal Arberellis is correct.

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Speaker 3: They are not in full communion with the Church. They

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Speaker 3: are canonically irregular, and under post Francis they were given

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Speaker 3: more permission. They were given the ability to hear confessions

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Speaker 3: and to perform marriages, so they were given they were

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Speaker 3: treated as if they're not canonically irregular for some of

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Speaker 3: the sacraments, and so this poses a problem for bishops.

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Speaker 3: But I would say this, if the society at Pious

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Speaker 3: the Tenth is interested in fostering true Church unity, they

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Speaker 3: should seek to full submission to the Roman Pontiff and

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Speaker 3: these problems will go away. There were discussions under Cardinal

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Speaker 3: Ratzinger and Pope Benedict to have this thing resolved. They

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Speaker 3: didn't do it. I hope and pray that Pope Leo

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Speaker 3: will restart those negotiations. But make it clear this is

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Speaker 3: not going to take forever. I would say, give them

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Speaker 3: six months, come up with an agreement, and if they

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Speaker 3: can do it, then we can regularize all this or

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Speaker 3: eliminate the problem. But in the same time, Pope Leo

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Speaker 3: can also say, and by the way, anybody else wants

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Speaker 3: to say, the old Latin Mass is given permission. I

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Speaker 3: think there's an easy solution here. I hope it happens.

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Speaker 1: In a related story, the Society of Saint Pious the

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Speaker 1: Tenth had their own Jewbilee event at the Vatican this week,

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Speaker 1: and here's the procession of their gathering there. There were

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Speaker 1: some reports that this was a Vatican hosted event, but

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Speaker 1: the Holy See Press Office clarified that while the society's

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Speaker 1: pilgrimage was listed in the General Jubilee Calendar, it was

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Speaker 1: not listed on the official Jubilee calendar. Bob, your reaction,

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Speaker 1: I mean this sends all kinds of mixed signals, I think.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, and they're far from being the worst

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Speaker 4: group that shown up on that list. And plus, you know,

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Speaker 4: one would think that in a church will like ours,

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Speaker 4: it so highly values the truth, consistency, dogma, unity with

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Speaker 4: the Holy Father globally in spite of all the cultures

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Speaker 4: and languages and whatnot, that they would be quite careful

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Speaker 4: about distinguishing between people who are kind of officially part

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Speaker 4: of what's going on in the Jubilee and others. It

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Speaker 4: just seem to show up. I mean, there are some

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Speaker 4: gay groups that are scheduled to have certain events we

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Speaker 4: want to talk about, and it just seems to me

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Speaker 4: if you think that everybody can come and be part

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Speaker 4: of the Jubilee, will find they can come if they

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Speaker 4: want to be in with what the church is doing

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Speaker 4: by celebrating that jubilee, which is basically to say it's

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Speaker 4: twenty and twenty five years of Christian existence in the West.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think if you looked at that procession, I mean,

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Speaker 1: they're singing the Credo and marching along, and you know,

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Speaker 1: they seem to be holding up the tradition of the Church,

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Speaker 1: not trying to undermine it.

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Speaker 2: So that's a good thing. Father.

436
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: It's also being reported that Pope Leo may be hosting

437
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 1: the Catholic Reform this progressive group we are Church therefore

438
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 1: female ordination and married clergy, the whole nine yards, that

439
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 1: they'll have a jubilee celebration in October eight. Representatives of

440
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 1: this pro LGBT group will attend a jubilee of sonatyl

441
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: teams and participatory bodies from October twenty fourth to twenty sixth.

442
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: We are church as long criticized church. Teaching your thoughts

443
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: on this again, this may fall into that general as

444
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 1: opposed to official calendar.

445
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean which list is it? I mean

446
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 3: is this going to the supermarket? Were the manager's specials

447
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 3: only open to people come every week? Or is this

448
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 3: the general public invited, you know, to have the sale

449
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 3: at the super Come on. These distinctions are meaningless, but

450
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 3: what is meaningful is that dissident groups, people who deny

451
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 3: Catholic doctrine and morality, would be invited to be part

452
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,719
Speaker 3: of anything. And my understanding is looking at this issue,

453
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 3: this invitation did not come from Pope Leo. They got

454
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 3: a form letter. It was eight members. As you say,

455
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 3: so the group in and of itself was not invited.

456
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 3: It was members who sought to go when they opened

457
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 3: up participation.

458
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 2: Yeah.

459
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 3: I don't think this represents any Vatican shift on anything,

460
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 3: but it does represent the problem of the what is

461
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 3: the meaning of sinidality? I mean discidality?

462
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 2: Mean?

463
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 3: Is sinidality mean? People who don't accept Catholicism are viewed

464
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 3: as partners and trying to figure out what Catholicism is.

465
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 3: I hope not, because you know, don't We don't call

466
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 3: up Mormon theologians as ven as Mormons are, but we

467
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 3: don't call it the theologias that will explain to us

468
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 3: the meaning of the creed. We don't do that because

469
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 3: we know that Mormonism is not a true religion. We

470
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 3: respect Mormon people. Same thing with people are promoting dissidents

471
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 3: in the church. We respect them as people. We call

472
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 3: them to conversion. We don't tell them us on need

473
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 3: to tell us.

474
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, Father and Bob.

475
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: This may be a holdover from you know, the old

476
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: Pope Francis sonadl days. It looks like these eight members

477
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 1: of this We Are Church were probably members of the

478
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: Senate or consultors to the Senate who were invited to

479
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 1: this sonadl Jubilee, and now they're saying, oh, our whole

480
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: group has been invited and we have a papal audience.

481
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 2: That may not be the case here. Yeah.

482
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 4: I looked at some of the remarks by the spokesman

483
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 4: for that group, and he almost kind of claims a

484
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 4: certain infallibility, if I can use that term to himself.

485
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 4: He says, you know, but the fact that the church

486
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 4: is opening up to the way it's excluded people in

487
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 4: the past, right, No one's excluded anybody and coming to

488
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 4: the church, they've excluded themselves by the positions they've taken.

489
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,360
Speaker 4: And he says it's good to see how they're correcting

490
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 4: the errors of the past. So in other words, he's

491
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 4: got some kind of pipeline into God that's correcting the

492
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 4: dogmatic and moral positions of the Roman Catholic Church. I mean,

493
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 4: I don't know where a guy gets this authority to

494
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 4: do such a thing, but that's the kind of thing

495
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 4: that happens when you're unclear about who is in and

496
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 4: who is not in the fold. And I'm sorry to

497
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,399
Speaker 4: say that Francis I think encourages this confusion by meeting

498
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 4: with people. And it's okay to meet with people, but

499
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 4: not giving the impression that he was then evangelizing them

500
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 4: and asking them to come into full communion with the

501
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 4: Catholic Church. I mean, we're all sinners, and if you're

502
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 4: following certain sins, fine, but you have to be willing

503
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 4: to try to be overcoming them to become more and

504
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 4: more united with the Church and frankly with Jesus Christ himself.

505
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 1: Well, as I always said, you know, when the sonadel

506
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: stuff first bubbled up, you know, Jesus encountered and interacted

507
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,919
Speaker 1: with punchest pilot in the Sanhedrin, but he didn't invite

508
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 1: them into the fold and call them a part of

509
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: his church. They didn't embrace him, so they couldn't enter

510
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: into that communion. And you're right, the Sonadyl model created

511
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: a huge amount of confusion because it seemed we were

512
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 1: voting on doctrine and that anybody, whether you're inside the church,

513
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 1: outside the church, or despise the church, you could come

514
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 1: sit around a little small table group and decide the future.

515
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 2: That's not reality. It just never was.

516
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 1: But Father, getting back to this Jubilee pilgrimage business, there's

517
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,479
Speaker 1: another Jubilee pilgrimage on September sixth, that's being billed as

518
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: an LGBT Jubilee pilgrimage, which is also not on the

519
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: official calendar, but it's being billed as a Vatican event.

520
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: It looks like it was organized by a local LGBT

521
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: group in Italy. Your reaction to this and trying to

522
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: sort of it seems all of these groups are trying

523
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: to glomb onto the Jubilee.

524
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 3: No, absolutely no, it's disgraceful. The Vaticans should not invite

525
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 3: groups that contradict Catholic doctrine as a group to come

526
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 3: in and participate in events trying to promote the Jubilee

527
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 3: of Salvation. Remember, the Jubilee year is not just like

528
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 3: in jamboree for the Boy Scouts where we get together

529
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 3: at a camphire. This is not about socializing with fellow Catholics.

530
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 3: This is about worshiping Jesus Christ, the savior of the world. Now,

531
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 3: people who say that Jesus's moral teaching has to go,

532
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 3: you know that sodomy is now good and legitimate. People

533
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 3: who say that, which is what these groups do, they

534
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 3: shouldn't be invited as a group because it gives the

535
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 3: impression that the Vatican has no problem with what they're

536
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 3: teaching their members. So this is a very serious offense

537
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 3: and this nonsense. We're back to, you know, the manager's specials.

538
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 3: Well you're you know here you are you're a group,

539
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 3: but you're not really a group. And you're on our list,

540
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 3: but you're not really on our list. I mean, what

541
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 3: is this? We don't sure people don't play these games.

542
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 3: This is not how people. If you're running a corporation,

543
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 3: you don't do this. You have a product, because it

544
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 3: does you sell your product, not other people's products.

545
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does bestow some officialdom on it when you

546
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: call it a jubilee of whatever. Fill in the blank, bob,

547
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: what is a jubilee year? Very quickly for those who

548
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: might not know the term.

549
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 4: Well, you know, this is first started around the time

550
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 4: of Dante by Hooponificeity eighth. I think in thirteen hundred

551
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 4: was the first jubilee, and it builds on the jubilee

552
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 4: idea that existed back in ancient Judaism, where debts are

553
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 4: canceled and where land gets returned to the people who

554
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 4: traditionally owned it. It's a thing that even for the Jews,

555
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 4: was a hard thing to manage. If truth be told,

556
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 4: but it's deep in the tradition, and we have that term.

557
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 4: In more recent times, you know, there were jubilees declared

558
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 4: a little bit more frequently. John Paul the Second had

559
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 4: the famous one in two thousand, which was of course

560
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 4: also the beginning of the New Christian Millennium, the third

561
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 4: Right Millennium, and so Pope Francis decided that he would

562
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 4: repeat that here in twenty twenty five as a kind

563
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 4: of a periodic thing, and I think we're likely to

564
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 4: see for the rest of this century every twenty five

565
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 4: years something like that happened. I want to get to

566
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 4: I just want to make one more point about this,

567
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 4: this inviting of different groups and whether they're invited or not.

568
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't really know if that's the case,

569
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 4: but it is the case that I don't think the

570
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 4: Vatican has sufficiently appreciated the difference between individuals and activist groups.

571
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 4: That it's one if it's one thing if a trans

572
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 4: person meets with the Pope and comes there and says,

573
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 4: you know, I'm troubled, I'm transing. It's another thing if

574
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 4: the Church decides to meet with a group that's promoting transactivism.

575
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 4: Because as we know, from the political and the secular sphere.

576
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 4: A lot of these activist groups are just relentless. They

577
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 4: just never quit. They believe believe they're right. They believe

578
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 4: even that the things that they are following that are

579
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 4: contrary to Christianity and used to be universally held by

580
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 4: all Christian groups, not just Catholics, but they believe that

581
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 4: they somehow have some sort of different revelation that trumps

582
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 4: the Christian revelation. So if I were if somebody from

583
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 4: the Vatican were to come to me and say, wait,

584
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 4: you know, you guys are talking about all this, what's

585
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 4: the solution here? Understand that activism is different than meeting

586
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 4: with people. Activists are there to get their point of

587
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 4: view and their activity across to you, and beware of

588
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 4: that unless you really believe that they're right. And in

589
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 4: that case, of course, we have an even deeper problem.

590
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 2: Right.

591
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they're using the jubilee here as a platform

592
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: for their own agenda, and that is problematic if it's

593
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: not the church's agenda, if those two things don't combine

594
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: and overlap. In a story we've been following really since

595
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: it broke, a grudging reversal in the Archdiocese of Toulouse

596
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: in France. Over two months ago, Archbishop Guy de Carmel

597
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: appointed a father Dominique Spina his chancellor in the diocese. Well,

598
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 1: this was despite Spina's two thousand and six conviction for

599
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: raping a sixteen year old boy. He spent five years

600
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: in prison for that act.

601
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 2: Father.

602
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: The archbishop apologized sort of on August sixteenth to victims

603
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: of sexual abuse for the harm and the anxiety the

604
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: appointment caused them, but at the same time, he continued

605
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: to justify his initial decision, insisting it was quote a

606
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: sign of hope for abusers.

607
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 3: Your reaction, Yeah, the bishop caved into pressure from the

608
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 3: French hierarchy and in fact said that that he wanted

609
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 3: to promote peace among the bish fellow bishops. So he's

610
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 3: got to realize this is not a question where you

611
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 3: simply cave in because the people around the table don't

612
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 3: like what you did. You made a fundamental error. You

613
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 3: do not put child rapists in high office in the

614
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 3: diocese and expect that people are going to recognize this

615
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 3: as a good act, because it isn't a good act.

616
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 3: This man effact should be thrown out of the priesthood.

617
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 3: I don't know why he wasn't they The bishop said

618
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 3: that his case had been presented to the Vatican. I

619
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 3: present it again. I have no animus against the man himself.

620
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 3: I hope he dies in the state of grace, lives

621
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 3: a good life from now to that point. But I

622
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 3: do not want him being a shepherd of souls for anybody,

623
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 3: because he's disqualified himself. What do you have to do

624
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 3: to get yourself thrown out of the priesthood in that

625
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 3: diocese question? I mean, this is ridiculous. No police department

626
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 3: would ever put a convicted rapist as the desk sergeant

627
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 3: at the precinct. Why in the world would you make

628
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 3: them the chance or of the diocese and then pretend

629
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 3: I'm only doing this because unfairly I'm being pressured. No,

630
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 3: this is a matter of justice.

631
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, Archbishop Caramel, Bob said, quote echoing what father said.

632
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: In order not to provoke division among bishops and not

633
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: to remain at a standoff between those four and against,

634
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: I decided to reverse my decision. I mean, it seems

635
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: he's missing the point here, Bob.

636
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like we've talked before him many times about this

637
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 4: overweening mercy that is supposed to trump everything else. And

638
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 4: I agree with Father. I mean, look, if this man

639
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 4: is repented and he is sincerely trying to follow the

640
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 4: right path right now, then good. Let's all pray for

641
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,240
Speaker 4: him and hope that that happens. But there are certain

642
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,359
Speaker 4: things that you do in life to disqualify you from

643
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 4: other positions, and not to recognize that. I forget the

644
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 4: differences between the French bishops. I think that this bishop

645
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 4: himself should have just acknowledged he made a mistake. It's

646
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 4: okay to make a mistake. We all make mistakes. He

647
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 4: made a mistake of judgment. It's to me an inconceivable mistake,

648
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 4: because I don't know how you take someone who's convicted

649
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 4: of a crime like that and then put him in

650
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 4: any kind of position in the church. But at least

651
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 4: acknowledge that and say, you know what, Mercy is great,

652
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 4: but so is truth, and truth has to be followed

653
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 4: in its fullness, means respecting that if you did something,

654
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 4: it means that you can't serve in certain offices.

655
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 2: I agree with Father on this end.

656
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 1: You, Bob, I mean, when you're talking about the shepherd

657
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: of souls and a chancellor is the man essentially running

658
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: the diocese. I mean, that is a major official in

659
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: a diocese. Why you would empower someone with this record.

660
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 1: Haven't they learned anything.

661
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 2: From the sex abuse scandal.

662
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: I mean, whether it's a priest who's fallen in this way,

663
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 1: and look, I'm all for personal mercy. Fine, archbishop, go

664
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 1: meet with him, convert him, bring him back, find him

665
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: something to do where he can repair is get to society,

666
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: to these victims, and to God so he can make

667
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: restitution and find his way to heaven. Fantastic, but that

668
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you have to put him in a place

669
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: of leadership.

670
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 2: I feel the same way.

671
00:36:58,080 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 1: There's an influencer I'm not even going to get into

672
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 1: it who was basically grooming young girls who were in

673
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 1: his ministry and this thing blew up, and I see

674
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: people saying, oh, he should be back, and this is wonderful.

675
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 1: I don't think that's a good idea. People need to

676
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: make restitution, but to be the public face and a

677
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,959
Speaker 1: leader in some way, I think it's a very bad

678
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 1: thing for the church to do. Twenty something years after

679
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,439
Speaker 1: the sex of these scandal exploded, one would hope people

680
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,240
Speaker 1: would learn some lessons and this is just another sad

681
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: symptom of what we keep seeing. I've got to get

682
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: to this Republica is reporting the Pope is returning to

683
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: the Apostolic Palace to live. The last pope to live

684
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: there was Benedicta sixteenth, twelve years ago. Father, Why is

685
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:47,399
Speaker 1: this so important to live in the Apostolic Palace. You've

686
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 1: seen the coverage where Pope Francis decided to live in

687
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: the hotel where the cardinals lived during the conclave, and

688
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: that was fun as the humble thing to do.

689
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:57,240
Speaker 2: Well.

690
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 3: I think it's important for a number of reasons. Number One, one,

691
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 3: that's where popes have lived for a long time, So

692
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 3: that's the pope's house, so he's going back to his house.

693
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 3: Number Two, it takes the focus off of him as

694
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 3: a person and puts it back on the office. He's

695
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 3: living where all the popes have lived for many, many generations. Likewise,

696
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 3: when you Pope Francis drew undue attention to himself, I

697
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 3: think by living in the hotel, saying he didn't want

698
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 3: to live in a palace, because that implies that, well,

699
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 3: everyone who else has lived in a palace somehow, you know,

700
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 3: was not conscious enough that they should not have been

701
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 3: living in the past. Now that's pope is free to

702
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 3: do what he wants. I would I don't agree with

703
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 3: what his decision is, so I think this is important.

704
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 3: The other thing I hear, I don't know if you're

705
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 3: going to talk about it, but I'll mention it. There's

706
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,479
Speaker 3: talk of some Augustinian priests, which is the religious order

707
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 3: that he lives in, that they're going to come and

708
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 3: live in the papal apartment area in the Apostolic Palace

709
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 3: so they can have a little religious community there. And

710
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 3: I think that's another good thing he's doing because he

711
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 3: is a religious order man, so he was used to

712
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 3: common prayer, common life, you know, eating meals together, recreation,

713
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 3: So if he's going to reconstruct that, I think that's

714
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 3: a very good thing.

715
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 2: I agree Bob your reaction to this.

716
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 1: You know, the Pope there was a lot of speculation

717
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: as to whether he would return to the Apostolic Palace

718
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 1: or continue this new trajectory that Pope Francis set the

719
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 1: papacy on living in the penthouse essentially at the hotel.

720
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

721
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 4: I think unfortunately the secular journalists and even some Catholic

722
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 4: journalists have misunderstood this situation.

723
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 2: To begin with now.

724
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 4: Francis did not say that he was going into the

725
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 4: Santa Marte guesthouse out of a desire for humility. He

726
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 4: didn't like being isolated, and he felt that the Apostolic

727
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 4: Palace was isolating. He just said for his own mental health,

728
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 4: he needed people around him. But Leo has obviously come

729
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 4: up with a solution to that problem. And it's not

730
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 4: as if the Apostolic Palace is lavish. I've seen that

731
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,879
Speaker 4: word used in some news report. I mean, we've all

732
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 4: been up there, and you know it isn't exactly. I mean,

733
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 4: it's really quite humble.

734
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,800
Speaker 2: When you get up in the hallways. The hallways are lavish,

735
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 2: oh yeah, in the beautiful No.

736
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,720
Speaker 4: You walk up the staircase and you think you're coming

737
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 4: into a palacific king and then you get up up

738
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 4: above and the offices and the bedrooms are really quite simple.

739
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:22,240
Speaker 2: But I think this is great.

740
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,839
Speaker 4: I mean, I think the idea that having people around you,

741
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 4: but still at the same time, as father says, you know,

742
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 4: identifying with a long history of what the papacy has been,

743
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 4: this is this is a step in the right direction,

744
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 4: and who knows what kind of consequences it can have.

745
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 4: We're trying to reroot the reroot the church in its

746
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 4: own tradition, even as we're trying to reach out to

747
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 4: other people. All that to me is to the good

748
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 4: and praise to Leo for doing it.

749
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 2: Yeah.

750
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 1: No, I think it's a wonderful restorative after years of

751
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: kind of dislocation. And there's also, I know there's also

752
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,800
Speaker 1: a security issue, which you know, Bob, the Swiss guards

753
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:00,760
Speaker 1: have said it's so much easier to tech the pope

754
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 1: in the Apostolic Palace as opposed to the hotel situation

755
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: where they had to block off floors beneath him and

756
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: above him, you know, to protect the floor that he occupied.

757
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:14,240
Speaker 1: As Pope Leo's pontificate continues. Look, we're learning more about

758
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 1: the man. And on August fifteenth, there was something that

759
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: jumped out at me. The solemnity of the Assumption, Leo

760
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:24,280
Speaker 1: was celebrating Mass at Costal Gondolfo, and he became visibly moved.

761
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 2: During the consecration.

762
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:29,720
Speaker 1: He appeared to overcome, and you could see tears welling

763
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: in his eyes as he held the Eucharist. Aloft, Father,

764
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 1: your reaction to this and what does it tell us

765
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 1: about the man himself?

766
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 2: Now?

767
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,360
Speaker 3: It was a beautiful scene, and I was surprised because

768
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 3: you know, when you've been a priest for more than

769
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,240
Speaker 3: forty years, as the pope has, you know, Mass becomes

770
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 3: something that's just part of your every day and hopefully

771
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 3: say it reverently, but obviously you know the weight of

772
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 3: the papacy, the grandeur of celebrating the Mass, I mean,

773
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 3: being the Vicar of Christ, the successor of Saint Peter,

774
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 3: he sees all of this with great clarity. And you know,

775
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 3: when you see something beautiful, even by the eyes of faith,

776
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 3: tears are appropriate. So I was very moved by that.

777
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 3: In fact, I have to say, his whole demeanor in

778
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,839
Speaker 3: celebrating Mass and in speaking to people, it bespeaks a

779
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 3: soul who is a man of prayer and understands that

780
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 3: what he's doing as Pope is not simply his own production.

781
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 3: I mean, it's not something he came up with.

782
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:29,959
Speaker 2: Is he is.

783
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 3: Conforming to a role that Jesus gave to Saint Peter

784
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 3: and to the apostles, and I think he's doing it well.

785
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, gentlemen on the tech horizon. And this ties into

786
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 1: family Bob, which you mentioned earlier, you know, tied to

787
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:48,800
Speaker 1: church attendance and conversion and maintenance of a faith through time.

788
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 1: Robots with artificial wombs could soon be carrying human babies

789
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: to term. A Chinese company is working on the development

790
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:02,360
Speaker 1: of a robot that could carry a fetus for about

791
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: ten months before giving birth, providing nutrition to the unborn

792
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 1: baby through tubes in the robots abdomen and look. This

793
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 1: robot could make its debut as early as next year.

794
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 1: It's being promoted as an alternative to surrogacy for couples

795
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 1: or individuals experiencing infertility or just wanting a child. The

796
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:29,760
Speaker 1: robot will likely cost fourteen thousand dollars for the surrogate,

797
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 1: as opposed to one hundred to two hundred thousand for

798
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,879
Speaker 1: the human equivalent BOB at a time when people are

799
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 1: marrying their ai significant others. Is this the next step

800
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 1: in the brave New world robots birthing babies.

801
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 4: Well, I pray that it won't. But I'm afraid that

802
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 4: the technological imperative, which is what some people call the

803
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 4: you know, just the drive that if we can do

804
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 4: it technologically, then we do do it. I don't think

805
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:02,359
Speaker 4: that we've considered even the ramifications of things like surrogacy

806
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 4: on what happens to children. A lot of what the

807
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 4: focus is in these cases is the adults who want

808
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 4: a child at all costs, and look, God bless them.

809
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 4: It's great to want to be a parent. I'm a

810
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 4: father of several children and our several grandchildren. But the

811
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 4: fact that we're only looking at the adults as if

812
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 4: the desires of the adults are all that is engaged here,

813
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 4: and the consequences for the child, what it may do

814
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 4: to a family to have a child that's born in

815
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 4: that particular technological way. All these things tear at not

816
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,479
Speaker 4: only the family, but they tear at our communities as well,

817
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,760
Speaker 4: because there are consequences when things happen inside the family.

818
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 4: You know, when the family fails to form and it

819
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 4: doesn't discipline children, it moves out into the society and

820
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 4: the form of you know, drug use and criminality and

821
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 4: all sorts of other things. And I think this just

822
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 4: portends something further down that road. You know, we saw

823
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 4: things like this in novels like nineteen eighty four, and

824
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 4: we thought it was crazy that there are these machines

825
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 4: where children were farmed. Now we're actually at the point

826
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 4: where that technology made to take place and you can

827
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 4: see in a novel like nineteen eighty four that it

828
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 4: really divorces people from that sense of responsibility that we

829
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 4: were talking about earlier, where you really are engaged with

830
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,919
Speaker 4: a child. So I hope we don't go down this road.

831
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 4: I hope that it's seriously regulated if people start to

832
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 4: use it. But I'm not optimistic.

833
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 2: Father.

834
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 1: I guess this is the natural consequence of separating conception

835
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: from humanity and the moment.

836
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 2: They could figure out how to create.

837
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 1: A child outside of the natural conception between a man

838
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:46,240
Speaker 1: and a woman.

839
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 2: Here we are.

840
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 1: And there was a recent piece in the Atlantic where

841
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: men are now becoming single parents by choice. Here's the quote,

842
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: the growing cohort of single dads by choice.

843
00:45:58,719 --> 00:45:59,439
Speaker 2: It tells the story.

844
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 1: But forty something, your old man who made an appointment

845
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 1: with a fertility clinic and over a period of years

846
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 1: was matched with an egg donor and a surrogate. At

847
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: forty nine, he became a parent too, and now he's

848
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 1: got a seven year old and a two year old daughter.

849
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 2: Father.

850
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: The focus of all this is, Bob said, is the

851
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,360
Speaker 1: parent and the child is getting lost here. Doesn't a

852
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: child need a mother?

853
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 3: Absolutely child needs a mother, a father needs to be

854
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,879
Speaker 3: born of his mother and raised by his parents. Now,

855
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:31,320
Speaker 3: when you violate the divinely created order, this is what happens.

856
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 3: You get disorder, and this is frightening. I agree with Bob.

857
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 3: What people now, whatever they can do, they're going to do.

858
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 3: And it's very frightening because now you're going to have

859
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 3: you potentially governments are going to create whole races of

860
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 3: people who are going to be subservient to them. I

861
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 3: can imagine that this is going to be like the

862
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 3: Nazi Laban's Born program, where you had access officers impregnating

863
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 3: women just to produce a chure children of the state.

864
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 3: This is very dangerous and yeah, we have to as

865
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 3: a society step back and say is the purpose of

866
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 3: life to be rich and powerful and do what we want?

867
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 3: Or is the purpose of life to find out what

868
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 3: God expects of us and to do that. If we

869
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:22,439
Speaker 3: don't find that second answer, more strife, more inequality, more injustice,

870
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 3: more strama, and really horrific outcomes for the victims of

871
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 3: this kind of behavior.

872
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 1: Bob, I want to end with this, and this is

873
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: something we talked about offline, but I know you had

874
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:38,439
Speaker 1: thoughts on the NFL, the Minnesota, Vikings unveiled a pair

875
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 1: of male cheerleaders which they introduced onto the field. Now

876
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 1: here in New Orleans, you know the Saints, they've had

877
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 1: a male cheerleader for a while. Your thoughts on this

878
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: now that it seems to be spreading throughout the NFL.

879
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 4: This is sort of another bud Light moment that they've taken.

880
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 4: They've put right in our faces frontline is my wife

881
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 4: reminds me when we've seen the videos of this men

882
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 4: who are kind of prancing around, I mean, really flaunting

883
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 4: a certain gay way of being, and they're doing that

884
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 4: to the NFL spectators. I mean that this is like

885
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 4: that bud like case where you drove away. I don't

886
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 4: know how many billion dollars it ended up being of

887
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 4: bud Light consumers. I wonder what effect this is going

888
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 4: to have on an NFL. And this goes back to

889
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 4: the other point I was talking about. You can you

890
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 4: can meet with it with people of any sort of

891
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,280
Speaker 4: you know, people who identified in some kind of strange

892
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 4: sexual way and try to work with them. But when

893
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,839
Speaker 4: you concede to activists that they're going to allow this,

894
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 4: it's clear to me that what the NFL does is

895
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 4: it's succumbed to some sort of pressure from LGB too

896
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 4: T groups to do this, and they're normalizing something that

897
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:50,799
Speaker 4: is It just strikes me as it's a disaster for

898
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 4: them and it's a further disaster for the society.

899
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:55,840
Speaker 1: Father, I'll give you the last word. But you know,

900
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 1: when I watched this, my fault was you're taking the

901
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:04,399
Speaker 1: spots of girls who have competed for that slot, who

902
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 1: have been denied, I mean, and the core audience. When

903
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 1: I look around, you know, an arena, it's mostly guys

904
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 1: in the seats.

905
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:12,919
Speaker 2: Yeah.

906
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 3: I'm actually a critic of the NFL cheerleader community world

907
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 3: that's been created because I think it's exploited to the women.

908
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 3: It's not like what Bob says. You know, cheerleading is

909
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 3: something I experienced when I was in college and all

910
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 3: I mean because it's basically it's like, you know, scantily

911
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 3: clad women jumping around. No, the New York Giants don't

912
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,399
Speaker 3: have cheerleaders, and I'm very happy with that situation. I'm

913
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 3: also a Giants fan, so no, I look, this is

914
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 3: a silliness. Everybody wants to glom on the NFL to

915
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:47,359
Speaker 3: get their picture on a screen. This is not what

916
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 3: it's about. This is football, It's about athleticism. This other

917
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:52,479
Speaker 3: stuff should go.

918
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 2: All right, pose We will leave it there.

919
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: If you want more of the Arroyo Grande Prayerful Posse,

920
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 1: subscribe to The Arroyo Grande Show on YouTube or our

921
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 1: podcasts wherever you get your podcasts.

922
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 2: On behalf of Robert Royal, Father Gerald Murray.

923
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 1: Until the Posse rides again, Stay the course, follow the light.

924
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 2: I'm raimonn Arroyo. We'll see you next time by now.

925
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:17,840
Speaker 1: Arroyo Grande is produced in partnership with Divine Providence Studios

926
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: and iHeart Podcasts. It's available on the iHeartRadio, Apple wherever

927
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts