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Speaker 1: Novel. Before we begin, a content warning. The following episode

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Speaker 1: contains difficult themes and violence. The fourteenth floor of the

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Speaker 1: Woolworth Building is always full of people. All those men

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Speaker 1: in suits speaking in important loud voices. The ringing rotary

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Speaker 1: phones heavy enough to be weapons, secretaries typing, the ping

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Speaker 1: of typewriters, competing with elevator dings, and foul cabinet slams.

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Speaker 1: It's the usual office racket, but today there's even more

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Speaker 1: chaos than usual. Over eighty women, nearly all sex workers,

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Speaker 1: crowd the space. Curses, threats, prayers and appeals rise above

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Speaker 1: the usual office hum and perhaps even more unnerving, some

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Speaker 1: women remain stone silent. Eunice hunting Carter, once set off

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Speaker 1: in a distant office, away from all the action, stands

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Speaker 1: near a woman seated in a circle of a few

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Speaker 1: hovering prosecutors. These men are trying to get her to talk.

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Speaker 2: You can tell us something about Charlie, Lucky, right, sweetheart,

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Speaker 2: you can tell us about Charlie.

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Speaker 1: These women are being held and Thomas Dewey's investigation into

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Speaker 1: organized crimes move into sex work. They've been kept for weeks,

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Speaker 1: cut off from all outside contact. Thomas Dewey Eunice Carter

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Speaker 1: and the whole team are working round the clock, interviewing, interrogating,

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Speaker 1: good cop, bad cop. They've got to get the women

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Speaker 1: to crack before the gangsters can slip through their fingers.

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Speaker 1: And in the hot seat right now, Nancy Presser.

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Speaker 3: There's good reasons why people run away from small towns

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Speaker 3: to come to the big city with men they shouldn't trust,

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Speaker 3: and Nancy was one of those. You start as somebody's

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Speaker 3: mistress when you're young and fresh looking and new to

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Speaker 3: the city.

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Speaker 1: And we'll have a good time.

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Speaker 3: I'll put you up in an apartment, and then when

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Speaker 3: he dumps you, you find you.

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Speaker 2: Don't have a lot of resources.

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Speaker 3: You're not going to go back to your small town.

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Speaker 1: When Nancy Presser ran away from her home in upstate

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Speaker 1: New York, she got caught up in the seatier side

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Speaker 1: of the Big Apple. By nineteen thirty six, she was

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Speaker 1: working at a brothel and addicted to opium.

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Speaker 3: A drug that, by the nineteen thirties is used by

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Speaker 3: high class drug addicts, really high end drug addicts, because

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Speaker 3: it's considered exotic and it's used by hardened criminals, especially

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Speaker 3: if they've got enough money.

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Speaker 1: Nancy Presser's new boyfriend had enough money. Ralph Lawari was

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Speaker 1: also married and a mafia strong man. He was a

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Speaker 1: member of the Mott Street Boys. Ralph had dropped out

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Speaker 1: of school at age fifteen and worked He's a Brooklyn

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Speaker 1: butcher until he found his calling in the underworld. I

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Speaker 1: can't imagine what skills he brought to the table.

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Speaker 2: Ralph Legori's name was Ralph the pimp Legory.

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Speaker 1: At first, Nancy works solo as a call girl. The

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Speaker 1: mafia doesn't really like call girls, they're too independent, that

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Speaker 1: is harder to intimidate. But Nancy gives up call girl

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Speaker 1: work and installs herself in a brothel house. And now

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Speaker 1: she's caught up in the grand sweep of Unice and

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Speaker 1: Dewey's raid. She's been plucked out of work in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the night. She's sleep deprived, she's confused and worried,

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Speaker 1: and she's being asked questions about Lucky Luciano. And on

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Speaker 1: top of all that, powerful withdrawal symptoms are kicking in.

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Speaker 3: All of these women were, of course terrified. They knew

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Speaker 3: very well the code of the underworld is squealers don't

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Speaker 3: last fast to the authorities. You are very likely to

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Speaker 3: end up in the river.

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Speaker 1: Dewey and Unice are after a much bigger fish than

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Speaker 1: Nancy Presser and Ralph the pimp Lagory. They want info

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Speaker 1: on Charlie Lucky Luciano, so they apply more pressure. They

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Speaker 1: threatened Nancy with possession of a firearm.

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Speaker 2: Nancy Pressa was the girlfriend of a booker, so when

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Speaker 2: she was pinched, she was carrying his gun in her

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Speaker 2: purse so that her boyfriend couldn't be pinched for it.

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Speaker 1: Putting aside the whole snitches get stitches thing. Now Nancy

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Speaker 1: has a real reason to talk. She could be facing

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Speaker 1: a possession charge, which could lead to the best part

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Speaker 1: of a decade behind bars. Nancy slowly realizes that nobody

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Speaker 1: is going to show up to bail her out, not

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Speaker 1: Ralph the Pimp, and certainly not Lucky Luciano.

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Speaker 3: They had been left to rot in jail, even though

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Speaker 3: they'd been regularly paying their ten bucks every week.

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Speaker 1: Nancy has no idea why this is all happening. All

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Speaker 1: she knows is that she's been left alone. What's the

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Speaker 1: point of paying for protection or even having a mom

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Speaker 1: boyfriend if she's being hung out to dry Eunice and

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Speaker 1: Dewey have Nancy presser exactly where they want her, vulnerable,

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Speaker 1: desperate and trapped, and when she finally does crack, what

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Speaker 1: she has to say surprises even them.

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Speaker 2: Nancy pressed the claim to be a girlfriend of Lucky Luciano.

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Speaker 1: Not Ralph the pimp, Lucky Luciano, the big man himself.

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Speaker 1: Nancy tells her interrogators, not only is she Lucky's girlfriend,

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Speaker 1: She's heard him talk about his involvement and vice with

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Speaker 1: her own ears. This is how Unice and Dewey make

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Speaker 1: their breakthroughs in tracking down witnesses who could link Charles

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Speaker 1: Lucky Luciano directly to prostitution. And if Dewey and Unice

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Speaker 1: are concerned with the inconsistencies like those in Nancy's stories

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Speaker 1: or in any of the witnesses reports, the historical record

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Speaker 1: doesn't show it. All it takes is one domino to

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Speaker 1: fall before they all do. After Nancy breaks down, other

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Speaker 1: women do too, often, sick from withdrawal, desperate for help,

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Speaker 1: they begin cracking under pressure and sitting there with them,

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Speaker 1: writing down every word in meticulous detail. Eunice hunting Carter

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Speaker 1: from the teams at iHeartRadio and novel I'm Nicole Perkins

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Speaker 1: and this is the Godmother, Episode sixth Trial of the Century.

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Speaker 1: May eleventh, nineteen thirty six. It's a suspiciously mild day

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Speaker 1: after a sudden scorcher. It's the kind of day where

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Speaker 1: you'd need only the lightest of jackets, and then the

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Speaker 1: sun warms you and all is right in the world.

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Speaker 1: A good day for a lover's picnic or to push

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Speaker 1: a child in a swing at the park, but not

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Speaker 1: everyone will get to have the sun on their skin today.

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Speaker 1: Lucky Luciano paces in a jail cale Thomas Dewey is

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Speaker 1: probably warming up his voice as he has breakfast, preparing

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Speaker 1: for the performance of a lifetime and Unice in the

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Speaker 1: pages of recorded history on May eleventh, nineteen thirty six.

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Speaker 1: She is nowhere to be found, but she has to

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Speaker 1: be thinking about one building opposite Foley Square in Manhattan,

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Speaker 1: the Courthouse. After months of painstaking work, today is the

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Speaker 1: day Lucky Luciano faces court. By ten am, members of

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Speaker 1: the press have all filed inside the Manhattan Courthouse and

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Speaker 1: taken their seats.

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Speaker 4: In fact, there were no spectators allowed in the courtroom

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Speaker 4: except the press. Newspapers covered this case assiduously and may

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Speaker 4: publish multiple editions every day and.

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Speaker 1: The lead up to the trial, Dewey keeps reporters and

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Speaker 1: editors close.

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Speaker 2: In daily statements to the Daily News and the New

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Speaker 2: York Mira and the polls and all the rags that

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Speaker 2: were being read every day in New York City.

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Speaker 1: He preps the news carefully. After dutch Schultz had died,

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Speaker 1: Dewey's message was focused on Lucky being America's most dangerous criminal,

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Speaker 1: and as the trial Will of the century approached, he

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Speaker 1: has honed that message more fully. Now inside the courtroom,

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Speaker 1: all the press turn their heads in unison.

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Speaker 5: Lucky Luciano is shuffled in with nine other defendants.

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Speaker 1: Three of the twelve originally charged with Lucky have pled out,

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Speaker 1: so now as they enter the courtroom, it's down to

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Speaker 1: Lucky and nine others, none of whom are wearing handcuffs

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Speaker 1: or a jumpsuit.

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Speaker 5: In the nineteen thirties, in that New York courtroom, everyone

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Speaker 5: was dressed to the nines, two or three piece suits, ties, dress, shoes,

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Speaker 5: hair neatly done. There was an elegance to it in

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Speaker 5: a weird way. There was a respectability. Even though if

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Speaker 5: you were there and one of the defendants, you would

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Speaker 5: have found almost nothing respectable about it.

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Speaker 1: Appearance matters, especially in front of a jewelry. But as

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Speaker 1: the eyes of the courtroom focus in on those nine defendant,

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Speaker 1: it's clear that some of them aren't as refined as

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Speaker 1: their threads.

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Speaker 5: Nobody seems to have the noticeable demeanor of Luciano. Luciano's

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Speaker 5: co defendants look like a mishmash of would be thugs.

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Speaker 1: Especially those defendants who are used to doing their dirty

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Speaker 1: work in the shadows.

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Speaker 5: That is exactly what the prosecution wanted.

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Speaker 1: Judge Philip McCook looms over the courtroom, imperious and intimidating.

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Speaker 4: He was selected expressly for the purpose of prosecuting organized

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Speaker 4: crime and its corrupting influence on New York politics. Many

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Speaker 4: said that McCook actually acted more as a co prosecutor

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Speaker 4: than as a neutral judge in the case.

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Speaker 1: Just as Judge McCook has been specifically chosen, so has

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Speaker 1: the jury.

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Speaker 4: It was a special jury called a blue ribbon jury

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Speaker 4: of experienced jurors, all.

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Speaker 1: Twelve white men in sit facing the.

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Speaker 4: Room, jurors who previously served and presumably who'd previously voted

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Speaker 4: to convict. So it was a bit of a stack

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Speaker 4: deck from the beginning against Luciano.

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Speaker 1: But the defendants didn't just have their lawyers backing them

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Speaker 1: up in court. It's the mob. One hand washes the other,

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Speaker 1: and their colleagues in crime have done their own trial prep.

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Speaker 2: The mob was behind the defense as much as the

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Speaker 2: attorneys were. There was an incidence where someone was pought

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Speaker 2: trying to bribe a Durer, and then one Durer was

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Speaker 2: kicked off and an altonate put on, So there was

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Speaker 2: a lot going on with.

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Speaker 1: At least one Durer caught taking a bribe. Dewey must

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Speaker 1: have been wondering who else had the mob approached, Who

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Speaker 1: else have they attempted to buy off in this corrupt city,

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Speaker 1: Who the hell knows? You get past all the obstacles

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Speaker 1: of finding a pattern, rounding up witnesses, getting them to crack,

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Speaker 1: finding the big boss and arresting him, and now you've

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Speaker 1: got to worry about jewelry tampering. The path to justice

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Speaker 1: is never smoothed, so despite a favorable judge and jury,

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Speaker 1: no one could predict how events would unfold. And Lucky

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Speaker 1: he is not giving anything away.

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Speaker 5: Lucciano's facial expression most of the time is complete stoicism.

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Speaker 1: He's not going to let anyone in that court room

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Speaker 1: see any signs of weakness.

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Speaker 5: But in his head he is still trying to figure

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Speaker 5: out how the hell am I on trial with nine guys?

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Speaker 5: I don't know for vice. He's visibly not pleased, although

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Speaker 5: he tries to be stoic. He does not like Dewey.

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Speaker 5: He does not like that this trial has happened. Lucky

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Speaker 5: knows he is a criminal, knows he has good lawy,

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Speaker 5: but he knows they're going to bring up his criminal history,

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Speaker 5: and he almost seems prepared to handle that.

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Speaker 1: As Lucky sits there in his tailored suit, resting bitch

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Speaker 1: face firmly in place, he has to have been wondering

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Speaker 1: how would it come to this and who was responsible?

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Speaker 1: If it were me, I'd definitely be looking for someone

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Speaker 1: to take my frustrations out on. But if he did

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Speaker 1: scan the room for faces to clare at, he would

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Speaker 1: not have spotted the woman who'd brought him there.

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Speaker 6: Eunice Carter was not given the opportunity to try the case.

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Speaker 4: She was not in the courtroom. No do we had

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Speaker 4: twenty assistant prosecutors, only about five or six. I'm Ashley

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Speaker 4: participated in the trial itself.

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Speaker 6: Whether it was because she was a woman, whether it

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Speaker 6: was because she was black, whether it was because it

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Speaker 6: was both of those things. This is certainly my opinion,

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Speaker 6: but there's no way to look at it other than

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Speaker 6: that it was a calculated and discriminatory decision not to

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Speaker 6: allow her to try the case.

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Speaker 1: If Eunice had wanted to attend the trial, she may

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Speaker 1: have been permitted, but not as a participant. She would

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Speaker 1: not have been given the chance to sit alongside doing

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Speaker 1: Eunice would have had to watch with the crowds from

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Speaker 1: the audience. Maybe this is all out of an abundance

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Speaker 1: of caution for her own safety, but it's such a

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Speaker 1: common story for many black women in the workplace. Your

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Speaker 1: contribution isn't valued until a man co signs it, and

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Speaker 1: when it becomes the key element to success, you're left

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Speaker 1: out of seeing it through. You're supposed to be content

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Speaker 1: with the thumbs up while someone else leaves his fingerprints

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Speaker 1: all over your work, with or without her. The trial

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Speaker 1: Unice had helped orchestrate was now in motion. Judge Philip

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Speaker 1: McCook addresses the packed room to read out the charges

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Speaker 1: against the defendants.

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Speaker 4: Ninety counts of pulsory prostitution.

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Speaker 2: Compulsory prostitution.

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Speaker 3: What even was that compulsory prostitution ends up being designed

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Speaker 3: as a charge to try to rope in all the

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Speaker 3: people around the women who are doing the work. So

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Speaker 3: it is really a catch all term to try to

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Speaker 3: say you're the apparatus around this woman who is selling sex.

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Speaker 1: The rest of the defendants are accused of intimidating women

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Speaker 1: to become sex workers.

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Speaker 3: Unlucky's behalf and the reason Unice Carter sees that as

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Speaker 3: possibly the way in to bringing down this kingpin of

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Speaker 3: the crime syndicate is because it shows conspiracy.

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Speaker 1: All the defendants are tried together in this conspiracy thanks

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Speaker 1: to that Dewey law which he lobbied for and won

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Speaker 1: conveniently just before the trial. Normally, in mob trials, the

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Speaker 1: big boss is protected while the low level players become

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Speaker 1: the fall guy. This new law means people charged with

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Speaker 1: two or more separate crimes could be tried under a

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Speaker 1: single indictment and that Dewey wouldn't have to spend taxpayer

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Speaker 1: money on several separate, expensive cases. Plus, the jury could

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Speaker 1: see the big picture of how all these crimes were connected,

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Speaker 1: and ultimately the ringleader can be held directly accountable. As

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Speaker 1: the judge finishes reading out the charges, Lucky has a

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Speaker 1: view directly across the courtroom.

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Speaker 5: At the other table stands Thomas Dewey. Smug and confident.

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Speaker 1: Dewey starts his opening statement. He says that Lucky Luciano

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Speaker 1: is a prostitution overlord, a menace to society, and then

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Speaker 1: he turns to what he must know will be his

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Speaker 1: most vulnerable area to attack during the trial, his witnesses. Frankly,

253
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Speaker 1: my witness a prostitutes madam's heels, pimps, and ex convicts.

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Speaker 1: Many of them have been in jail, Others are about

255
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Speaker 1: to go to jail. Some were told that they would

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Speaker 1: be prosecuted if they did not tell the truth. I

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Speaker 1: wish to call to your attention that these are the

258
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Speaker 1: only witnesses we could possibly have brought here. We can't

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Speaker 1: get bishops to testify in a case involving prostitution, and

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Speaker 1: this combination was not run under arc lights in Madison

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Speaker 1: Square Garden. We have to use the testimony of bad

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Speaker 1: men to convict other bad men, and with that it's

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Speaker 1: the defense's turn.

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Speaker 2: They had some pretty high level criminal lawyers working for the.

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Speaker 1: Lucky's lawyer is a prominent Long Island criminal defense attorney

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Speaker 1: George Martin Levy, who hasn't had the same kind of

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Speaker 1: preparation Dewey's team has enjoyed.

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Speaker 4: On the front day before the trial began on Monday,

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Speaker 4: Moses Polakoff, who was Luciano's lawyer, called George Martin Levy

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00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:08,880
Speaker 4: and said, would you take it on? We need a

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Speaker 4: trial lawyer of umpeccable reputation? And Levy said how long

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Speaker 4: would I have to prepare? And Polakoff said the trial

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Speaker 4: starts Monday, and Levy took it anyway.

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Speaker 1: In his opening statement, Levy argues that the government's tactics

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Speaker 1: are underhanded, their evidence is shaky, and the link to

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Speaker 1: his client, Lucky Luciano it's even shakier. By the time

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00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:43,399
Speaker 1: George Martin Levy finishes speaking, the battle lines for the

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Speaker 1: trial are clear. Could Lucky be directly linked to Wes?

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Speaker 1: As Lucky looks across at the other co defendants, he

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Speaker 1: must have been a little worried.

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Speaker 4: Clearly his co defend Dance. The people who were running

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Speaker 4: this prostitution bonding racket were guilty.

283
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Speaker 1: Lucky's presence in court alongside them is one of the

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Speaker 1: most damaging weapons The prosecution.

285
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,359
Speaker 4: Has the bookers, the bondsmen, the middle management types, the

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00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,320
Speaker 4: hold up men, the strong arm men. The evidence against

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00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:16,680
Speaker 4: them was.

288
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,760
Speaker 1: Overwhelming, but this association alone isn't enough to sink Lucky.

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00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:25,440
Speaker 4: Question was, could they prove that Lucky Luciano personally was

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00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:27,920
Speaker 4: profiting from the earnings of prostitutes.

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Speaker 1: The prosecution needs evidence of that connection, and what they

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00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:33,879
Speaker 1: have are their witnesses.

293
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,879
Speaker 6: Many of these women were drug addicts, had other mental

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Speaker 6: or emotional challenges. A lot of that was so looked

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00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:45,520
Speaker 6: down upon in nineteen thirty six.

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Speaker 1: Fortunately for the prosecution, the judge is going to help

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Speaker 1: them out a bit there.

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Speaker 6: Judge McCook made a big point at the beginning of

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Speaker 6: the trial to tell the jury, some of the witnesses

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00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 6: that you were going to be hearing from are from

301
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:04,280
Speaker 6: the very different circumstances than you. Because some of these

302
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 6: women did sign deals of immunity if they were willing

303
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:13,680
Speaker 6: to testify against Luciano. There was for the general public

304
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,360
Speaker 6: this belief on the part of many that you know, well,

305
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,600
Speaker 6: these women will just make any kind of deal to

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Speaker 6: get out of whatever they're trying to get out of.

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00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,639
Speaker 1: Whether the prosecution could prove that Lucky himself is the

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00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,399
Speaker 1: big dog of this whole racket. Would come down to

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Speaker 1: witnesses testimony. Unice Carter herself has spent hours interrogating and

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Speaker 1: preparing women like Nancy Presser.

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Speaker 6: There was this grave concern that even if their stories

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Speaker 6: were airtight, even if they stood up to hours of

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Speaker 6: cross examination, could you really take their word for it?

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Speaker 1: But once again, Judge McCook comes to the aid of

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Speaker 1: the prosecution. At the start of the trial, he makes

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00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,640
Speaker 1: an extraordinary ruling.

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00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,400
Speaker 2: Ruling that hearsay testimony was admissible.

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Speaker 1: Hearsay testimony when someone in the legal case tries to

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00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 1: prove a fact by repeating what someone else said outside

320
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,479
Speaker 1: of the courtroom, rather than providing direct evidence of what

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00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 1: they personally saw or experienced.

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Speaker 2: That was how all of these women were able to testify.

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Speaker 2: So it was a real stretch.

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Speaker 1: Stretch or not, the prosecution still has precious few witnesses

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00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,199
Speaker 1: who are prepared to point the finger at Lucky. So

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00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,679
Speaker 1: even with hearsay testimony permitted, as the court broke for

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Speaker 1: that first day, the prosecution of Lucky Luciano is on

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00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:54,639
Speaker 1: thin ice. As the trial of the Century progresses, Lucky's

329
00:21:54,720 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 1: resting bitch face deepens and begins to crack. Lucky sits

330
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:05,440
Speaker 1: in the dock alongside defendants and hears witness after witness

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Speaker 1: link him to the charges of compulsory prostitution with hearsay,

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Speaker 1: and now it's time for Nancy Presser to get on

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00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 1: the witness stand.

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00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 2: Nancy pressed his testimony and raged Lucky Luciano because she

335
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 2: claims she was his girlfriend and that she had spent

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00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 2: time with him in the Woldorf Astoria.

337
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,399
Speaker 1: Nancy tells the courtroom she's known Lucky for the past

338
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 1: three years. She links him directly to the vice rackets,

339
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,199
Speaker 1: and she claims to have heard him say things like

340
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 1: madams will have to bond and if they refuse, wreck

341
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,160
Speaker 1: their joints. But the problem for Nancy comes when she's

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00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 1: cross examined. Unsurprisingly, the recollections of a sleep deprived woman

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00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 1: with a heroin addiction and withdrawal are a little inconsistent,

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00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 1: and Levy is quick to put Nancy under more pressure,

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00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 1: like surely a man of Lucky's alleged criminal stature would

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00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 1: choose to hook up with a more glamorous type of woman.

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00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 2: He liked show girls, he liked beautiful women, he liked

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00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 2: women of stature, and he didn't like being associated with

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Speaker 2: somebody who was a drug addict and a girlfriend of

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Speaker 2: Ralph the pimp.

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Speaker 1: Then Levy goes in for the kill. He starts asking

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Speaker 1: Nancy for the kind of details someone would know about

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00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,919
Speaker 1: a former boyfriend. What sort of bed do you sleep

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00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,920
Speaker 1: in together? What's the layout of that luxury apartment? Does

355
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 1: Lucky have any distinguishing marks? Nancy stumbled she doesn't seem

356
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 1: to know. Backed into a corner, she responds with stories

357
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Speaker 1: of how Lucky is impotent and that's why she can't

358
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 1: provide more intimate details. Nancy Presser has ovaries of steel.

359
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:09,719
Speaker 1: I cannot imagine one testifying against the alleged boss of

360
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:15,159
Speaker 1: all mob bosses, and two putting into public record in

361
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,160
Speaker 1: front of other mob guys that he can't even get

362
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: it up och. Her cross examination lasts well into the evening.

363
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 1: Nancy pleads to the judge that she's feeling ill she

364
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: needs to step aside, but even that doesn't stop Levy's interrogation. Eventually,

365
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,439
Speaker 1: her cross examination does come to an end, but only

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00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: after the defense introduces into evidence the floor plans of

367
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Speaker 1: the Waldorf Astoria, which clearly contradicts Nancy's descriptions of her

368
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 1: supposed boyfriend's crib. If she'd been able to participate that day,

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00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: I imagine Eunus herself might have admired that very specific,

370
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 1: detail oriented attack. Despite Nancy's disastrous testimony, Dewey's team still

371
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: has a number of other witnesses.

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00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 2: Some of these women held pretty high positions in vice ring.

373
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Speaker 1: But as these women come and go, there wasn't very

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Speaker 1: much evidence at all against Luciano directly.

375
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,719
Speaker 2: With the exception of Nancy presso all of these women

376
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:29,439
Speaker 2: were able to testify that they heard someone discussing Lucky

377
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 2: discussing it.

378
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: Is the case against Lucky falling apart. A few days

379
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: into the trial and across town from the courthouse, a

380
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 1: woman sits in a Manhattan prison, the Women's House of Detention.

381
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 1: If you took a stroll down Greenwich Avenue, you'd be

382
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 1: forgiven for confusing the Women's House of Detention for a

383
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: block of apartments opened to nineteen thirty two. It's twelve

384
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: stories high, with reddish brown brick on the lower floors

385
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 1: and fading yellow brick at the top. It's not immediately

386
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: obvious that the stylish Art Deco building is at that

387
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 1: very moment, housing hundreds of the city's most criminalized women.

388
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 1: But if you pay close attention, you'll begin to see

389
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 1: this is no high class apartment building. You can't see

390
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,360
Speaker 1: in through any of the many windows, and they're designs

391
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,120
Speaker 1: is such a way that makes them impossible to climb through.

392
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: There's a roof garden where the inmates supposedly play minishure tennis,

393
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 1: but it's caged in by wire mesh. When it first opened,

394
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 1: the Women's House of Detention was an experiment with a

395
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 1: new kind of prison system, one that prides itself on

396
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 1: referring to its residents as inmates, not prisoners. The women

397
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: had complete physical and psychological exams on arrival, and they're

398
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: given uniforms of bright colors instead of the usual drab gray,

399
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 1: and on Sunday mornings they receive another change of clothes.

400
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: I can appreciate the attempt at remembering that the people

401
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 1: inside those walls are still human beings who should be

402
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: treated as such, even if on the wrong side of

403
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,360
Speaker 1: the law. But some of the treatments sound pretty brutal,

404
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: and that includes those for addiction. Probably one of the

405
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: main reasons women found themselves there in the first place.

406
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: The prison hospital occupies the upper floor of the Women's

407
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: House of Detention, and a few days after the Trial

408
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: of the Century begins, one woman is facing an ordeal.

409
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: Her name is Florence Brown, but you might remember her

410
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: better by one of her aliases, Kochie Flow.

411
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 4: She was smart and she was a heroin addict. Back

412
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 4: in those days, if you were an addict and you

413
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 4: were arrested, you went through what they called the five

414
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 4: day cure. They administered smaller and smaller doses of heroin

415
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 4: to you or methadone over the course of five days,

416
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 4: and that was it. It was an agonizing process of

417
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 4: going through drug withdrawal.

418
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: After Koki left her family home and fell in with

419
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 1: the mob in Chicago, she moved to New York and

420
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 1: then into sex work.

421
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 2: Kochi Flow, She's in a category all her own.

422
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 1: But that night in February, when Unice and Dewey's meticulously

423
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: executed raids shook the city.

424
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 4: Koki Flow was not arrested. She went into hiding. Basically,

425
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 4: she attempted to get clean. She went through rehab, but a.

426
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: Little over three months later, in May of nineteen thirty six, she.

427
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 4: Either wanted the money or she got bored or she

428
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 4: went back on heroin, whatever it was. For whatever reason.

429
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 4: She then got arrested for propositioning an undercover police officer.

430
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 4: And so she was arrested for prostitution while the trial

431
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 4: was going on, and she was thrown into the women's

432
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 4: House of detention.

433
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: And while she's there going through the pain of withdrawal,

434
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: someone points out to her that there was this trial

435
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: all over the news. Maybe it can be her ticket out.

436
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 4: And she was in the throes of that five day

437
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 4: process when girls whom she knew who were being held

438
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 4: in the women's House of detention basically said, flo, you

439
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 4: were Jimmy Frederick's girlfriend, Dewey's people would love to talk

440
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 4: to you and you could probably make yourself a nice deal.

441
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: Jimmy Fredericks is a mob enforcer and an associate of Lucky's.

442
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: He's also one of Lucky's co defendants, which means Cokei

443
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: has been spending quite a bit of time in the

444
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: company of the mobsters at the heart of the trial.

445
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: And now Cochi realizes she has a get out of

446
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: jail free card up her sleeve.

447
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 4: Did she make a deal for her testimony?

448
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: You bet? Maybe it isn't quite a get out of

449
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: jail free card. She still has to testify an open

450
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: chord against a bunch of mobsters. But even that comes

451
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: with some perks.

452
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 4: If you cooperated with Dewey, you went to a hotel

453
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 4: and got wined in Nune, taken out for drinks, taken

454
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 4: to the movies. If you wouldn't cooperate, you stayed in

455
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 4: the women's house at detention.

456
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: Rooftop, miniature tennis, and a change of outfit. On Sunday's side,

457
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: I know which one I use. So in the middle

458
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: of Heroin Withdrawal, Cochi Flow agrees to testify, and when

459
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: she does, it causes quite the sensation.

460
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 2: Cochi Flow was considered a material witness, so witness whose

461
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,959
Speaker 2: testimony is crucial to the case.

462
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: On Friday, May twenty second, Kochi arrives in court. Her

463
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: testimony is tough to witness. She's still recovering from her

464
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: five day cure and experiencing brutal withdrawal symptoms.

465
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 2: Her testimony was pretty rugged and they would drag her

466
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 2: off the witness stand. Can we take five minutes uran

467
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 2: a sure? And then they would ply her with brandy

468
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 2: or whiskey.

469
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 1: This was the.

470
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 2: Idea of a cure, and then she was right back

471
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 2: on the witness stand.

472
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: I'm no lawyer, but is that ethical or even moral

473
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: to allow such an incapacitated person and to testify.

474
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 2: A standard question in any legal proceeding in the United

475
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 2: States is the following, are you under the influence of

476
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 2: any drugs or alcohol that would influence your testimony today?

477
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 2: Another question is have you taken any drugs or alcohol

478
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 2: within the last twenty four hours.

479
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: It's up to Judge McCook to determine if Cookie Flow's

480
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: testimony is admissible, and after hearing from doctors from the

481
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: defense and the prosecution on whether she is fit to

482
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: stand trial, maybe unsurprisingly, he decides she is.

483
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 2: Judge McCook made some rather interesting decisions. He allowed things

484
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 2: that should not have been allowed. Her medical condition was

485
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 2: not questioned, nor was the fact that she was being

486
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:58,479
Speaker 2: laced up on breaks. If McCook had wanted to challenge that,

487
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 2: he could have ruled right then and there.

488
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: Koki's testimony changes everything.

489
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 4: She claimed that she could attest to five different meetings

490
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 4: that she attended with her boyfriend Jimmy Frederick's with Lucky Luciano,

491
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 4: where they discussed the prostitution, so she was the key

492
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 4: witness in the case. She was the one person who

493
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 4: could testify to the fact that Luciano was the head

494
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 4: of this prostitution bonding combination.

495
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: And it isn't just the jewelry whose minds are changed

496
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: by the testimony.

497
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 4: It wasn't until Koki Flow really put Luciano in the

498
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 4: frame that he felt he had to go on the

499
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 4: stand to defend himself.

500
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: Lucky is about to have his say. When Lucky finally

501
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: takes the stand on June nineteen thirty six, there can

502
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: be no denying he's undergone some kind of major transformation

503
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: from street urchin to a Waldorf Astoria address. Even in

504
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: court as he sits through testimony that could change his life,

505
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: yet again, he projects luxury and comfort. He is the

506
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 1: gangster version of the American dream. He traded in his

507
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: hand me down bootstraps for fine Italian leather loafers. But

508
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: Dewey wants jurors to see the flex of blood on

509
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: those custom made tassels. Dewey hopes that when Lucky opens

510
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: his mouth, everyone will see past the silk suits and

511
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: remember how he got them. Wants a hoodlum, always a hoodlum.

512
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: Dewey wants Lucky on the stand, and Lucky he's pretty

513
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: confident he can convince folks he's just as respectable as

514
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 1: the rest of them, which is probably why he ignores

515
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: his lawyers, please not to get on the stand.

516
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 4: George Martin Leevy, his lawyer, strenuously told him not to

517
00:33:59,480 --> 00:33:59,719
Speaker 4: do it.

518
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: A slip of the tongue and the heat of the

519
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: moment is all it takes.

520
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 4: Luciano insisted his attitude was I have nothing to be

521
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 4: ashamed of in connection with this prostitution case. I had

522
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 4: nothing to do with prostitution. It's all a big setup.

523
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 4: The witnesses are lying. I want to go on the

524
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 4: stand and tell him the truth.

525
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 5: Luciano had that wow factor when he walked into a room.

526
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 5: He was one of those types of people that everybody goes, wow,

527
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,439
Speaker 5: who is that guy? They're drawn to him. But if

528
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 5: you were trying to pick the best witness, he is

529
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 5: not it.

530
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 4: He never should have taken the stand. Over the course

531
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,720
Speaker 4: of two days, Dewey viciously crossed examined him.

532
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,399
Speaker 1: Dewey throws as much gangster spaghetti at the wall as

533
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: he can.

534
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 4: He crossed, examined, him about having lied to get a

535
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 4: gun permit, income tax fraud. He'd committed various mob connections.

536
00:34:55,600 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 5: He had and Luciano would usually respond the proper of no, no,

537
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 5: or yes, which frustrated Dewey.

538
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: The testimony stretches into the next day, with Dewey trying

539
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: his best to get under Lucky's skin.

540
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 4: There was a moment of levity when Dewey was cross

541
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 4: examining him about the time he'd been arrested with a

542
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 4: shotgun and some handguns and a bunch of ammunition in

543
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 4: the trunk of.

544
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,320
Speaker 5: His car, and the policeman says, what are you doing?

545
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 4: And Luciano tried to say, come back from a hunting

546
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 4: trip upstate New York.

547
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 5: The policeman asks what were you hunting, and Luciano.

548
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,800
Speaker 4: Says, peasants. He meant to say pheasants, but he said peasants.

549
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: Dewey reads the transcript of this mistake aloud while Lucky

550
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: sits stone faced in the witness box and the courtroom

551
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:51,320
Speaker 1: erupted in laughter.

552
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 5: What was the point of it? To make Luciano even

553
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 5: more upset and look like an uneducated Italian immigrant. That's

554
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 5: what the prosecution needed was to make these guys look

555
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 5: like dregs of humanity, a parasite on society.

556
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: Dewey needs this moment not only to shake Lucky by

557
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 1: having people laugh at him, but to highlight that no

558
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: matter how many gold watches he has, Lucky is still

559
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: an ignorant thug who needs to take advantage of others

560
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: to get ahead. And Dewey knows this kind of anecdote

561
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: can go well beyond the courtroom.

562
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:37,720
Speaker 5: This becomes fodder for every newspaper covering this trial.

563
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 1: Dewey the showman, always keeping the press entertained. The reporters

564
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: make sure the public knows this gang busting crusader is

565
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: landing his punches in court against America's so called most

566
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: dangerous gangster. Dewey lays the trap for Lucky, and Lucky

567
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: walks right on.

568
00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 5: In as cool and collected as loo Giano is in

569
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 5: the mob world, Dewey has his number. He ends up

570
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 5: incriminating himself, stumbles over words, makes himself look dare I say, uneducated,

571
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 5: because he's led into verbal traps that Dewey sets for him.

572
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 2: There was something about his arrogance and his attitude on

573
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 2: the witness stand that didn't fly well, and it was

574
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 2: reported in the tabloids for what it was, you know,

575
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:32,320
Speaker 2: back talk.

576
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 1: Lucky may look refined, with all the obvious markers of wealth,

577
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: but it isn't enough. He thinks he knows the rules,

578
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 1: make the money, wear the right clothes, live in the

579
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: right places, and you'll be accepted. He ignores the most

580
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 1: important part. It's how you make the money. You have

581
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 1: to earn it the right way. You have to be

582
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: born with it. Watches are fine, but they're looking for

583
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: the silver spoon in your mouth. By the time Lucky

584
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 1: steps down from the stand, it's June fourth and the

585
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: trial is near its conclusion. Lucky's testimony has been a disaster.

586
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 6: What they are able to do is get into the

587
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:28,320
Speaker 6: jury's mind the fact that he clearly knows every single

588
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 6: one of his twelve co defendants who they have actively

589
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 6: connected to prostitution.

590
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: But still those witnesses.

591
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 2: It's possible that the spectators and the jewelry had really

592
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:48,359
Speaker 2: been prejudiced beyond belief by seeing the condition of some

593
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 2: of these prostitutes and how vulnerable they appeared on the

594
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:53,760
Speaker 2: witness stand.

595
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 1: And the fact remains that Dewey has failed to produce

596
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 1: the one crucial bit of evidence against Lucky.

597
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 6: In all of his hours of questioning and cross examination,

598
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 6: they are never able to actively concretely connect him to

599
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 6: the prostitution racket.

600
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: By the time Dewey finishes his closing argument at a

601
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 1: little after six fifteen in the evening of June sixth,

602
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: the verdict against Lucky he still seems up in the air,

603
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 1: and now the jury has to decide. The judge spends

604
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,240
Speaker 1: a full three hours with a jury before they file

605
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,720
Speaker 1: out of the courtroom. Over one thousand people have turned

606
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: up to wait outside the courthouse. Spectators crowd the street.

607
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 1: They've probably consumed weeks of relentless reporting. They're waiting to

608
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: hear what the verdict will be. And what about Dewey.

609
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: You might think that he'd heads straight back to the

610
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 1: Woolworth Building to give an update to Unis and the

611
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: rest of the team. Right wrong. He goes up to

612
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 1: the deserted judges dining area in the courthouse, takes off

613
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: his tie, his jacket and his waistcoat, stretches out on

614
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: a sofa and sleeps peacefully for five hours. What a

615
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: team player. The following day, early morning on June seventh,

616
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:23,280
Speaker 1: things outside the courthouse reach a fever pitch. The jury

617
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: has reached its decision. The court clerk addresses the jury

618
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: and asks, gentlemen of the jury, have you agreed upon

619
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: a verdict? Do you find the defendant Luciano guilty or

620
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 1: not guilty?

621
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:46,320
Speaker 5: The jurors agree all defendants are guilty.

622
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 1: Shock ripples out from the courtroom and across America.

623
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 6: Luciano is convicted on sixty two charges of compulsory prostitution.

624
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 4: But for Unice Carter, Thomas Dewey would not have been

625
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:08,280
Speaker 4: able to convict Lucky Luciano of compulsory prostitution. Eunice Carter's

626
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 4: idea and her ability to persuade Thomas Dwey to pursue

627
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 4: this route. I don't know that Luciano wouldever have been

628
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:16,760
Speaker 4: convicted of anything.

629
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: Does Dewey even think of Unis at all during the conviction?

630
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 1: I doubt it. He's probably thinking about his next move,

631
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,919
Speaker 1: which is exactly what Lucky's defense team is doing. They're

632
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: already preparing for an appeal.

633
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 4: It was a rickety case that Dewey built against Luciano.

634
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: And it turns out they had pretty good grounds for

635
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: reevaluating the story they'd heard in court, and not just

636
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: about the witnesses, but about Lucky himself. Is he even

637
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 1: really the boss of bosses?

638
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 7: The narrative was good guys verus bad guys. That doesn't

639
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 7: come describing organized crime. The idea that organized crime was

640
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 7: centralized and hierarchical doesn't stand up to scrutiny. There's a

641
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 7: better story to be told, a more complex story.

642
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 1: If Lucky isn't the big bad wolf do he made

643
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 1: him out to be? Then who is is the case

644
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: Eunice Carter built about to crumble under close scrutiny That's

645
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 1: coming up in episode seven of The Godmother you've been

646
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 1: listening to.

647
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 3: I'm Debbie Applegate. I'm a historian and biographer, and i

648
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 3: am the author of Madam, The Biography of Polyadler, Icon

649
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 3: of the Jazz Age.

650
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 5: My name is Christian Sippolini, and I am an organized

651
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 5: crime historian and author.

652
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 4: My name is Chuck Greeves. Before becoming a writer, I

653
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 4: spent twenty five years as a Los Angeles trial lawyer.

654
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:08,280
Speaker 4: My fourth novel was basically a fictionalization of the famous

655
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 4: nineteen thirty six vice trial, in which Luky Luciana was

656
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 4: prosecuted by Thomas Dewey.

657
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 2: Hi, my name is Ellen Paulson. I research and I

658
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 2: write books about women who were involved with notorious gangsters

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Speaker 2: and desperadoes.

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Speaker 6: I am Claire White and I am the director of

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Speaker 6: Education at the Mob Museum in downtown Las Vegas.

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Speaker 7: I'm Mike Woodtowis, author of Organized Crime in American Power,

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Speaker 7: a teacher at University of West of England.

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Speaker 1: The Godmother is produced by Novel for iHeartRadio. For more

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Speaker 1: from novel, visit novel dot Audio. The Godmother is hosted

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Speaker 1: and written by me Nicole Perkins. Our producer is Leona Hammy.

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00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 1: Additional production from Ajuajima Broumpong, Ronald Young Junior and Ziana Yusuff.

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00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:09,399
Speaker 1: Our editor is Ajua Jima Broumpong. Additional story editing from

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Speaker 1: Max O'Brien and Mitha Lee Raw and Our researcher is

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Speaker 1: Zianna Yusuf. Additional research from Mohammed Ahmed. David Waters is

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Speaker 1: our executive producer. Field production by Tnito Romani and Pallas Shaw.

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Speaker 1: Sound design, mixing and scoring by Nicholas Alexander and Daniel Kempsen.

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00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 1: Our score was written, performed and recorded by Jeff Parker.

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Speaker 1: Music supervision by Nicholas Alexander and David Waters. Production management

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Speaker 1: and Endless Patients from Sharie Houston, Sarah Tobin and Charlotte Wolfe.

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00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:46,360
Speaker 1: Fact checking by Fendel Fulton and Dania Suleiman. Story development

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Speaker 1: by Madeline Parr, Jess Swinburne and Ziana Yusuff. Willard Foxen

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Speaker 1: is our Creative Director of Development. Special thanks to Leah Carter,

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Speaker 1: Stephen Carter, Angela J. Davis, Andrew Fernleigh, Marilyn Greenwald, Sondra Lebedy,

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Speaker 1: Katherine Godfrey, Nadia Maidie, Amalia Sortland, Shawn Glenn, Neil Krishnan,

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Speaker 1: Julia Bromberg, Katrina Norvelle, Carly Frankel, and all the team

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Speaker 1: at w Emmy Novel