1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 2 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 1: My guest today is the one and only Mr Ticketmaster 3 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: Fred Rosen. Fred, how did you first get involved with Ticketmaster? Serendipity, 4 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: which is always something that people forget about. Um. I 5 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: was practicing law and in the mid seventies I had 6 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: represented somebody who was in the ticket business or trying 7 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: to get in the ticket business and got nowhere. And 8 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: there was an attorney. We were in a suite of 9 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: My firm was us. We had a small firm, and 10 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: we were in a suite of attorneys, and a lawyer 11 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: called me who was on the other end of the floor, 12 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: and he said, there's a guy who wants to go 13 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: into ticketing. Why don't you come talk him out of it? 14 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: And I went and met him. Oh, I met We 15 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: we met on the phone and he said, gee, you 16 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 1: know more about this than I do. Are you open 17 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,919 Speaker 1: to coming to Chicago? And that gentleman's name was Bert Canner. 18 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 1: And as a result of that, I became special counsel 19 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:20,839 Speaker 1: to Ticketmaster and six or seven or eight other companies 20 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:23,919 Speaker 1: because he would make investments between three and five million 21 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 1: dollars in these various companies. And this was early night. 22 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: I couldn't tell you the month, whether it was February 23 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:36,759 Speaker 1: or March. And then in the spring of eight two, 24 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: company was running out of money A little bit slower, 25 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,119 Speaker 1: A little bit slower. So you were based in New 26 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: York and then you moved to Chicago. No, I never 27 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: moved to Chicago. I was I lived in New York 28 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: and I had clients all over the country and Bert 29 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: was a client in Chicago. Okay, where did Burke get 30 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: his money? Bert was a very successful attorney who represented 31 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: a lot of people, um wealthy people, and invented tax shelters, 32 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,079 Speaker 1: and he was a pretty smart guy, was a tax attorney. 33 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: So he put together a group who invested probably in 34 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: at least ten companies more than I represented. And he 35 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: would put in seed money or venture capital money in 36 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: the late seventies and early eighties. And how many of 37 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: these companies other than Ticketmaster were in the entertainment sphere. None. Okay, 38 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: So now it's the spring of eighty two, he's running 39 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: out of money. Pick up the narrative. He says he's 40 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: going to close it and he doesn't want to fund 41 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 1: it anymore. And I said to him, um, I don't 42 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 1: think you should do that. Let me see if I 43 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: can go raise the money UH and buy it UM 44 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: and put together a group to buy it UM. And 45 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: subsequently we talked to a bunch of venture capital people 46 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: and we were going to raise four million dollars and 47 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: we had commitments for three and we had met j 48 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 1: Pritzker who said, if you can raise the other three, 49 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: I'll put in the last million. And then at I 50 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: Double AM in Milwaukee and two, which was July, I 51 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: believe I was in Milwaukee, and he said to me, UM, 52 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: why don't you come down and spend the afternoon with me? 53 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: He lived in Winnetka, Okay. For those who were not savvy, 54 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: the I double a F Is that a union? I presume? No? No, 55 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: The I double AM was the industry where you'd have UM. 56 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: It was a convention, sorry about that, where UM people 57 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: who did seating, food service, ticketing. It was basically the 58 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: industry around arenas and stadiums. Okay, just one step before 59 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: we go there, we'll continue. What was the status of 60 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: ticket Master when it was seemed to be running out 61 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: of money. UM it owns losing a couple of million 62 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: a year. It owned UM small pieces of different operating systems, 63 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 1: and in March or April of that year, I signed 64 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: a letter of intent with the Chicago White Sox that 65 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: basically required three things Bob, One that we'd have a 66 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:30,799 Speaker 1: data center up in Chicago by the fall of eighty two. 67 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: Two as we tell him who the outlets would be, 68 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,559 Speaker 1: and three as we get the company financed. So let's 69 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: go back to Milwaukee. You're trying to raise the three 70 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: to get the one from Pritsker. Continue, I have commitments 71 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: for the three, and Pritsker says, come see me. So 72 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,799 Speaker 1: I go see him, and we spend four hours together 73 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 1: and he says to me, why don't I just do 74 00:04:55,440 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: this myself? And that's how it stored it. Okay, So 75 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: the other people who assembled the three, they were fine 76 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: to walk away because it was a long shot in 77 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: their minds. We paid him a fee, as I recall, 78 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 1: we paid them a walk away fee. No papers were signed. 79 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: These were all verbal commitments. Okay. So when does he 80 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: invest is for? And what ownership position do you get 81 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: when he invests for? Um, we've never discussed that publicly, 82 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna do that now what the ownership 83 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 1: position was, but um, he invested it, I believe in 84 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: September of eighty two. And you did get an ownership piece, Yes, 85 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 1: I did. There were only two owners of the company, 86 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: he and I. Okay, so now you're running again. Tell 87 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: me what happens. That'll take two hours. Um. We right 88 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: a business plan that's gonna be Chicago in New York, 89 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: and we opened in Chicago in the fall of that year. 90 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: We have outlets. Said, of course, for those of you 91 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: who don't remember, there were outlets before the internet. Those 92 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: stores physical locations and a phone room. And the outlets 93 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: were in sports Mark, which was a sporting goods store, 94 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: Rose Records, and Carson Perry Scott. And we had both 95 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 1: baseball teams, the White Sox and Cubs. And we had 96 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: a deal with the big concert promoter, which was jam Um. 97 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: And we were talking to everybody, okay, just before that, 98 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: who were they using previously, Well, everybody was using ticket Tron. Okay. 99 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:44,719 Speaker 1: Ticket Tron was was the you know, main player at 100 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: the time. And our business plan was to open in 101 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 1: New York and there was six major clients in New York. 102 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: There was Madison Square Garden, the Meadowlands, Nassau Coliseum, one 103 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: of the theater group's legitimate theater, and then both baseball teams, uh, 104 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: the Yankees and the Mets. And and to open you 105 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: would need four of the six if you had any 106 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: chance of making money. And interestingly enough, although we never 107 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: got them as a client, then we could have gotten 108 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: the Mets. We did have NASA Coliseum, Uh, but we 109 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: didn't weren't making much headway in the fall of a 110 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: D two and into the winter of a D two. 111 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: So um I would say at that time we had 112 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: a foothold in Chicago, difficult to get arrested in New York, 113 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: and we just kept knocking on doors. Okay, just to 114 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: be clear for the other many people who were not 115 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: alive unlike you and me in that era, what was 116 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: your pitch to these companies? What differentiated Ticketmaster from ticket 117 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: toront or any other service you'll find the shocking. My 118 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: basic theory for going into this was ticket Mester had 119 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:03,679 Speaker 1: an operating system that was basically an inventory control system. 120 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: It was season tickets, group tickets, single tickets on one 121 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: integrated system ticketsry and had two boxes one boxers the 122 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: season tickets, one box was for single tickets, and as 123 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: hard as that is to believe Bob, the boxes didn't 124 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: talk to each other, so you end up having to 125 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: manually put stuff together for the teams. And what started 126 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: all this is when I was talking to this gentleman 127 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: at the Chicago White Sox. I said, how many tickets 128 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: did you sell last night? And he said, well, we 129 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: can give you an estimate, he said, because he said, 130 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 1: because it doesn't always tie out, and you know, not 131 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 1: being computer literate and not being sophisticated in terms of 132 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: how things work, I assumed that people would say, Wow, 133 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: I have this computer system that can now do this 134 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: integration of all everything under one roof, and that would 135 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 1: be meaningful. And I was only wrong. That was not 136 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: That was not exactly what happened. It was okay for 137 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: the baseball teams, but not necessarily for the arenas. So okay, 138 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 1: you're talking. We're still in eighty two, and you're telling 139 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: me what happens right now, we're losing money. And I 140 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: get a call in December um from I can't remember 141 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 1: exactly who called me, but they said Steve Wozniak. As 142 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 1: you may recall who was Steve Jobs partner when they 143 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: started Apple. This was this is pretty close to the conversation. Um, Steve, 144 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: Steve Wozniak hates tike Atron because there were a lot 145 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: of counterfeits last year at a thing called the US Festival. 146 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: I'm not sure you even remember that. Believe me, I 147 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: remember it, do you? It was San Bernardino in that 148 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,839 Speaker 1: Glenn Helen and Helen Reginald Park, right, okay, And so 149 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: there was gonna be three days at Glenn Helen Regional 150 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: Park and then the following weekend was gonna be like 151 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,839 Speaker 1: Country and so it's sort of like the fore runner 152 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: coach for for Coachella, but it had nothing to do 153 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: with coach, not not even the slightest. So they called 154 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: me up in New York and they go, um, Wasniak 155 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: hates ticketron. They want you to do the ticketing. And 156 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: then I talking to a guy named John Ruby, who 157 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: you may remember work for Barry Faye, and Barry Faye 158 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: was getting the acts, uh, none of which I knew. Um, 159 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: and they said you gotta come to California and I went, uh, 160 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: that would be a no. Um. You know, I don't 161 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: know anybody in California. I don't even know what California 162 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: is all about. And um, they said, no, you gotta come. 163 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: So they kept calling and then Jerry Seltzer, who you 164 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: may remember from Bass, was somebody who we had started 165 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:59,199 Speaker 1: talking to. And Jerry said, look, we could go to California. 166 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: We could we could open in l A. I can 167 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: send some people down from UM northern California. And there 168 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: was a phone room in New York called charge It, 169 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 1: which we initially took out the California and then throughout UM. 170 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: But you know, they kept pushing me to come, and 171 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:25,559 Speaker 1: so I flew out to California in January of and 172 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: knew nobody, and I'm meeting these different people and I'm 173 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: totally confused, and I'm showing up in three piece suits 174 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: and smoking, so you know, it's the New York thing, 175 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: New York cigars, you know, cigars and the whole silliness 176 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: of that. And they say to me, look, will you 177 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: guarantee the drop count if we give you the tickets, And, 178 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: not knowing what the drop count was, I said sure 179 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: because I had no idea what that meant. But the 180 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: drop count was basically, if the tickets at the floor, 181 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:57,679 Speaker 1: you pay for them, okay. And then they kept pushing 182 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: on me to come, and I met Um Terry Bassett 183 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: and Bob Gettys and um you know some other people. 184 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: But I was gonna basically outsource the whole thing. I 185 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,839 Speaker 1: personally was not going to come to California. Uh. We 186 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: were gonna bring people down from northern California and from 187 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: New York. And what I figured is this UM wasn 188 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: was gonna spend a million dollars advertising on this. It 189 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: was a free play. And they said, can you set 190 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: up fifty hard ticket outlets? So this is what happened. 191 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: In the months of January and February. We found a 192 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: space in Korea Town in a company that a company 193 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: named Rexon went out of business. It's amazing how I 194 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: remember all this stuff. And they had a data center 195 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,959 Speaker 1: and we signed two leases, one for six months and 196 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,439 Speaker 1: one for five years because we didn't know if it 197 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: would work. And I put up fifty grand for six months, 198 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: and I could have walked if it didn't work. And 199 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,839 Speaker 1: I figured, if they spend a million dollars advertising, maybe 200 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: we can get a foothold. I wouldn't know one client 201 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: from another at all. In in uh in l A. 202 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: Now middle of February, I meet Terry Bassett and Getty's 203 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: and Dad that people run an avalon which you well know. 204 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: And and this was even before I met Brian Murphy, 205 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: and basically, um, I tell him what we're gonna do. 206 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: And we we had a meeting at the Old Holiday 207 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: Inn on the four oh five. We had breakfast, and 208 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: I go back to New York and I've got everybody 209 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:39,559 Speaker 1: coming to l A. And Terry Bassett, who should rest 210 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,839 Speaker 1: in peace. I met him once. This is what I 211 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,719 Speaker 1: mean about serendipity in life. And Terry calls me. I've 212 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: got lud dick Stein coming from Dallas. I've got Jerry 213 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: and his people coming from Northern California. I've got guys 214 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: coming from New York. We're gonna have it had to 215 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,079 Speaker 1: go on sale April one. The guys at sport Mark 216 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: agreed to do this from Chicago to l A. And 217 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: then the guys from sport Mart introduced me to Music Plus, 218 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: and Lou Fogelman at Music Plus said, okay, I'll become 219 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: hard at ticket outlets for you. And I set up 220 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: fifty hard ticket outlets, which, when you think about that, 221 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: is semi insane. And Terry Bastard calls me up and says, listen, 222 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: this will not work unless you come to California. Now 223 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: I'm a New York I I go, what are you 224 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: talking about? He said, you need to come to California. 225 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: I go, Terry, I met you once I got all 226 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: these people coming. He said, Fred, if you don't come, 227 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: this will fail. I'm getting killed everywhere else. I'm losing 228 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: money in Chicago. I can't get arrested in New York. 229 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: And I figured what the hell? And I rent the 230 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: house for six months and bring my family out to 231 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: California in late March of eighty three and walk into 232 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: the office April one and sit down with some of 233 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: the people who were there and promptly fire them and 234 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: say you'll be leaving. And um, that was the beginning. 235 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: So how did it play out with US Festival? Well, 236 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: the U S Festival plays out as follows. There's a 237 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: lot of advertisement going on. You've got Avalon. I proceed 238 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: to sign contracts with Irvy Meadows, Avalon, Long Beach Arena, 239 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: a couple of small venues, and then this is what happens. 240 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: That's totally strange. Oh, we also put Return of the 241 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: Jedi on sale um in advance and wind up selling 242 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: fifty tickets. That was a Jerry Seltzer idea, and I said, 243 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 1: who's gonna buy movie tickets? I mean, I'm from New York. 244 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: I never thought of any of that as real as real. 245 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: And we wind up and and Fox gets man at 246 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: us because we announced were selling movie tickets. You know, 247 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: they have their home market. And anyway, it was sort 248 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: of a camp. It was a mess on some level, 249 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: but interesting. And so the Forum, UM, the l A 250 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: Forum has a contract with Tigatron, which was an exclusive contract, 251 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: and that's gonna come up UM in September one of 252 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: and I meet Lou Bamister, who was the president of 253 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: the Forum UM, and we start to negotiate, and candidly, Bob, 254 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: I thought we were a stalking horse. So when you 255 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: think you're not, you have no shot. And I've said 256 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: this before, when you think you have no shot to win, 257 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: you kind of negotiate a certain way. And you know, 258 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: my view was they had a long term relationship. UM. 259 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: At that time, I did not have Claire Claire Rothman, 260 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: who was really a brilliant woman and the first really 261 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: strong woman who ran in arena in America, UM, who 262 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: was not too anxious to see us, And UM, I 263 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: never thought we had a shot and one of the 264 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: things I said to lou was, look, you need to 265 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:19,639 Speaker 1: let me know by June whether or not, um we 266 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: can do this now. Part of what you want to 267 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: know is where did the economics come from. Early on, 268 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 1: I learned that people were not gonna switch just on 269 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: the basis you had a better system. But they all 270 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,439 Speaker 1: wanted to charge your dollar, and I said, I'm not 271 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 1: doing that. All you do is complain that you don't 272 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: have new equipment. You complain the equipment doesn't work, You 273 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: complain you don't have the software you need. It has 274 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: to be that I can make a profit. And then 275 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 1: they go, well, if you do that, then I should 276 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: get this. And then finally it came to me where 277 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,360 Speaker 1: I staid, look, I need this to make money. If 278 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: you want a quarter of fifty cents that gets added 279 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:05,439 Speaker 1: to what I make. And that was the negotiation. And 280 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 1: then on June Louke called me and I take bad 281 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,640 Speaker 1: news better standing up. So I had just come back 282 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 1: from a meeting and my assistant says Mr Bammis is 283 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: on the phone, and I pick up the phone and 284 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 1: I'm standing and lu says, we're close, but we're not there. 285 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: And I went, you need to hold on because now 286 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: like my heart is coming. I mean, you can't see 287 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: this in terms of how you knew me when we 288 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: got bigger. This was the beginning. This was something where 289 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: you knew if this happened, this was going to change 290 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,120 Speaker 1: the world. And I don't say that lightly. I meant 291 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,880 Speaker 1: it seriously. Because the Forum was one of the two 292 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 1: or three what I call even though it was local building, 293 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 1: had a national presence. So Lou says to me, look, 294 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: we're close, but we're not there. I need a sweetener. 295 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: And and we were both going to a charity event 296 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 1: that night, and I was going back to New York 297 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: the next day, and I said, I tell you what, 298 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: why don't you think about what you want and if 299 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: that makes sense, will make a deal. Because I'm out 300 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: of ideas. My my brain is gone. I don't have 301 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: anything I can tell you. And while I'm driving home 302 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: to change that for that night, it throwns on me, 303 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: that's a pretty stupid way to handle that. You better 304 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: come up with this solution, because this solution could be 305 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:33,479 Speaker 1: he'd like the whole company. So I um came up 306 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: with a solution and we I got to the charity 307 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: event and I take him up on the side and 308 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,919 Speaker 1: we're having a cocktail and I say to him, what 309 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: do you think about this? And he says, well, that 310 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: sounds interesting. Let me think about it. Now. Picture this 311 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: the next morning. This will tell you more about Lou bound, 312 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: this gentleman, than anything I could say. I get on 313 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 1: a plane in the morning, I fly to New York. 314 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: I have a car picked me up and take me 315 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: out to a home in West Hampton. I'm not in 316 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: the house. Ten minutes in the phone rings. It's Lou fred. 317 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: I just want you to know you got the deal. 318 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: Have a great July fourth weekend. I wanted to make 319 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: you feel good about this. That was Lou. Now. A 320 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 1: couple of days later after the holiday, wait wait wait 321 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: wait wait wait wait, you left out a couple of things. Hey, 322 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: what was Ticketran's deal? Be what was the sweetener? Money? 323 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: Money in the money in the form of what it 324 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: was rebates. But then also I agreed to do a 325 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 1: lot of software programming to him for no money. I 326 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: would just do all the software programming. And then what 327 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: what what? What? What was Ticketron's usual deal? You want 328 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 1: to know the truth. Ticketron was so stupid. I looked 329 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,959 Speaker 1: at some of their contracts. They would give a rebate 330 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 1: of a penny or two pennies after you reach a 331 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 1: certain him. They saw themselves as a utility, not as 332 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,640 Speaker 1: a marketing company. All the checks came out of New York. 333 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: There was no regional banking um. They they they saw 334 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: themselves basically as a utility. And I saw us I 335 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: as a marketing company. Because if you go back to 336 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: some of the history, which you probably remember, ticket Tron 337 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: would get allocations. They didn't get the whole house now 338 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: for him. They had the whole house, but there so 339 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 1: you'd go to a baseball game and there'd be empty 340 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: sections and then a ticket Trons section. And I remember 341 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 1: walking into one baseball team with with the new owners, 342 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: and the ticket manager said to me, oh, you're with 343 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: the ticket company. I'm working on ticket trans allocation. They 344 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 1: pissed me off, so I'm gonna give them bad seats. 345 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: I didn't say a word, and I walked out of 346 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: the room with the two guys, and I go I 347 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:55,959 Speaker 1: thought the object was to sell tickets to the fans, 348 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: not whether or not you pissed them off. Right, say said, 349 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: don't worry about it. Were firing him, and they did. 350 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: The end of the year. But the point was that 351 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: ticket tron never saw themselves as a business. It was 352 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:14,719 Speaker 1: owned by Control Data UM. The people who owned it 353 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: didn't understand the business they were in UM. And I 354 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: remember when I'd be in a meeting in Houston where 355 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: we owned like seven or eight percent of the company, 356 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: and it was a partnership of the Summit, the Astrodome Pace, 357 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: Angelo Dross who owned the Spurs, and Ticketmaster, five partners, 358 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,719 Speaker 1: all of whom at that time hated each other and 359 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: required unanimous consent to do anything, which means, of course 360 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: nothing got done. So I'm sitting in the room and 361 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,199 Speaker 1: they had a dent in the inventory, and within a 362 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: year they had six because they started giving ticket try 363 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 1: on allocations because they everybody was mad at Ticketmaster for 364 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,040 Speaker 1: whatever the reason. I had nothing to do with that. 365 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: I didn't run it. And this was the thing that 366 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: was really interesting to me. I said to them, why 367 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: is there a dollar service charge on afforded dollar ticket? 368 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,679 Speaker 1: And they said, because we have five dollar tickets And 369 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 1: I said, yeah, but a afforded dollar ticket could have 370 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,919 Speaker 1: a two dollar service charge and a five dollar ticket 371 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: could have a dollar And they said, you can't do that, 372 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: and that was my famous line was that like one 373 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: of the tablets, Moses dropped. And some of them found 374 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 1: it funny and some of them didn't. But the point was, 375 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,159 Speaker 1: as I subsequently learned, the way the system was written, 376 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: you could only have one service charge on an event, 377 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 1: couldn't have multiple service charges. You couldn't have multiple service 378 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:46,120 Speaker 1: charges in the marketplace. And in a world of self deprecation, 379 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:51,120 Speaker 1: this was common sense to me. I didn't understand why 380 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 1: this thing happened. And then on top of everything else, 381 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: I'm looking at their numbers. They've lost the inventory in 382 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 1: those His prime was so they borrowed the money at 383 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 1: twenty two and they're cash flowing money and they're complaining, 384 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: and I'm sitting there thinking, you know, there's a business here. 385 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: Nobody wants to look at this as a business, but 386 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: there's a business. And the thing it needs follows is One, 387 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: you need multiple service charges to you need to have 388 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 1: multiple service charges on the same event. Three, it's not 389 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: a democracy. You have to make this where you have 390 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: total control of sitting in a room, and you've got 391 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 1: to be an All good negotiations are driven by if 392 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: you can't leave the table, don't sit at the table. Okay, 393 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: so you make the deal with the Forum. Pick up there. 394 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: Here's what happens the following week. I get a call 395 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 1: on Monday. This is the week after he's told me 396 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: we're going to do the deal, and a guy calls 397 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: me from our office and says, we have a problem. 398 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 1: And I said, what's a problem. He said, Lou wants 399 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: to talk to you. That could mean anything. So I 400 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: call up Blue and Lu says, Tikatron is not giving 401 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: us the sixty day cancelation provision. They're gonna be out 402 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 1: of here in ten days. They're not gonna honor it. 403 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: Can you put me up in ten days? And being 404 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: the moron I am, and went, of course, without truly 405 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:28,120 Speaker 1: understanding what that means. And um, he said, Look, and 406 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: I'll never forget what he said. He said, if I 407 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,719 Speaker 1: had any doubt before, I have no doubt. Now, no 408 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 1: one's gonna muscle me and tell me what to do. 409 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,160 Speaker 1: Take a tron did a real New York in your 410 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: face move. Nobody knows this, Bob, I've never told this 411 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: story publicly. That's really true. So now I called my 412 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: guys and go, okay, we need a phone line into 413 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,439 Speaker 1: the Forum. So they called me back and say, okay, 414 00:25:54,440 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: they're gonna put him in on Thursday. On on Tuesday 415 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,439 Speaker 1: afternoon or Wednesday morning, I get a call going they 416 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 1: said they can't put it in for two months now. 417 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,159 Speaker 1: I'm sure you know I've occasionally raised my voice and 418 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: let's just say I blew a fit at peg Bell 419 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: and they agreed to put in one line on Friday. 420 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: And I had a guy who was really smart who 421 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: built a black box and we ran the whole Forum 422 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: box office of one line, one telephone line. And I 423 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: said to Lou, look, I'm coming back this week, and 424 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 1: Luke said, no, you're not. You have you a vacation. 425 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: You need to come back Monday, which is like the 426 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: tenth of the eleven And on the sevent the Journey 427 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 1: sale was going on sale. A Journey concert was going 428 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:51,479 Speaker 1: on sale. And so I fly back on Monday. On Tuesday, 429 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: I mean, we send them the contract. On on Wednesday, 430 00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: I mean the offices of the Forum, which is down stairs. Upstairs, 431 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,679 Speaker 1: they're moving in equipment and training people and Lou and I, 432 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: because we don't have time, I'm marking up the contract 433 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: I gave them. And that's the contract we signed and 434 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: then here's the best part. Because they were all chicken 435 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: scratches and we didn't know what they meant. Louis this, 436 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: lou is a total gentleman. So Louid called me up 437 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 1: and go what does this mean? I go, I don't know. 438 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: He says, what what do you think it means? I said, 439 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,400 Speaker 1: it means whatever you wanted to meet. He said, well 440 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: that might be fair, and I go, Loo, listen to me. 441 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: Whatever you needed to mean. It means let's not waste 442 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 1: time with contracts. Just tell me what you need, will 443 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 1: take care of it. And then, of course I never 444 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: lost the Forum as a client, obviously, because if you've 445 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 1: you've built those kinds of relationships. So the concert goes 446 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,679 Speaker 1: on sale on Monday, and then the whole country finds 447 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: out that Tikatron pulled out, you know, in ten days, 448 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: you know, and didn't give them on at the sixty 449 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: day notice, and obviously that became a marketing um benefit um. 450 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 1: And then about two months later, there was a regional 451 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: convention on the West coast, like the I Double Lamb 452 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 1: and which was national that I went to. This was local, 453 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 1: This was the whole West coast, and I figured take 454 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,919 Speaker 1: a tron would get up and they would apologize for 455 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,159 Speaker 1: their behavior and say, the industry is important. We're not 456 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,439 Speaker 1: going anywhere. We made a mistake because they bet. We 457 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: couldn't put them up, and they didn't say a word. 458 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 1: And I said to my guys, we own this industry. 459 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 1: Or when I say we own it, we will. We 460 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: will put them out of business. They're too stupid for words. 461 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: And I said it will take time. But what they 462 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: should have stood up with this group of people is 463 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: we're sorry, we care about you. We did the wrong thing. 464 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: We should have stepped up, and they didn't do that. 465 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: And it went around the country. And then what it 466 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: also did is it gave me name recognition for people 467 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: to talk to me. And that's the beginning. That was 468 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: really the beginning. Okay, so from the very big the 469 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: big differentiator from the consumer end was the Ticketmaster. You 470 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: could choose your seat. Was that a feature from day one? Yes? 471 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: Best available seat. I mean one of the things we 472 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: said is we have ticket centers, not remote outlets. And 473 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: a remote outlet men a remote seat. Listen. We made 474 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: all this stuff up as we went along, but the 475 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: point was you had the whole inventory of what went 476 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: on sale, whatever, the building gave you. So an exclusive 477 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: is not what everybody thinks. And exclusive is the buildings 478 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: decide what they're gonna put on sale. Ticketmaster doesn't decide that. 479 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: The buildings decide that. So in the forum, where it 480 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: was twenty seats US Senate Terrorists, senate Terrorists was equivalent 481 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: to season tickets because they didn't have suites. So you'd 482 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: get anyway from ten to twelve thousand tickets on a concert, 483 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: not twenty. And when people would talk about exclusives, and 484 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: it was one of the things that I think, um 485 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: as people learned, it was not what it meant. Exclusive 486 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: in the world meant wow, you got every ticket, Well 487 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: you don't. And the truth is that everything in an 488 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: arena is exclusive, whether it's food service, whether it's parking, 489 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: whether it's you're a concessionaire in the building. And the 490 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: way I saw the business was it was no different 491 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: than a food concession. The public paid for that. If 492 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: you're going to create outlets and phones that make it 493 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: easy for the public not to go, you're entitled to 494 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 1: get paid. And to me, that's why we called it 495 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 1: a convenience charge. And what people never understood is the 496 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: public was never our client, our client with the arenas 497 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 1: and theaters and stadiums, and you serve the public because 498 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: underneath it was this, because this is something you need 499 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: to know in the sense of the way you you've 500 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: written over the list forty years. Every arena manage is 501 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: concerned about the team. Every arena manager is concerned about 502 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: family shows. You know what. Arena managers were never concerned 503 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: about rock and roll orphans. People would come in and 504 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: trash the buildings or they would come in and it 505 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 1: wasn't a business the way it was. And here's the part. 506 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: When I got into business, sev of all tickets for 507 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: shows was sold at the box office. And my bet was, 508 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: if I can create an outlet system that you can 509 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 1: put in logo slicks with a with a phone number, 510 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 1: that nobody would go to the box office. That in 511 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: the end, because no box office is near where anybody 512 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: else is, and who the hell wants to camp out. 513 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 1: So the perspective was that was the bet I made. 514 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: I could have been wrong. I mean, there was no 515 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,719 Speaker 1: guarantee I was right. Was that. Look, if you create 516 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: an outlets system where everybody has access to the same 517 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: inventory when it goes on sale, including what's at the 518 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: box office because take Atron in some instances would all 519 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: their outlets weren't open, all their alice weren't open store hours, 520 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 1: all their outlets weren't open on the day's shows, one 521 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 1: on sale. I can take you through ten things take 522 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: Atron didn't do, and I wasn't gonna do any of them. 523 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: And at the beginning, when we were losing money, and 524 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: people said, well, we'll give you an allocation, and I went, no, No, 525 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: it has to be best available seat, because if I 526 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 1: can't sell best available seat, I'm another version of them, 527 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: and I'd rather go down with the ship than than 528 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: build a business on the wrong level. They failed at this, 529 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: and I can't tell you how many times I sat 530 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: it at at in a in a negotiation where people said, 531 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: we'll give you an allocation and I go find it. Well, 532 00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,040 Speaker 1: that's very nice, We're not taking it. We're just not 533 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: gonna take it. Okay. At this point in time, is 534 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: Ticketmaster your full time job? Are you still practicing law 535 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: in other areas with other clients? No? No, No. In 536 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: two in September, when he funded, I left my practice 537 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: and became CEO of the company. That's what I did, right, Okay, 538 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 1: So you get the Forum. That's the first turning point, 539 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: and that of course is mostly concerts. Whatever did you 540 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: get the sports teams at the everything? Everything? Okay? So 541 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: how did you ultimately gain market share? Well, you started 542 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: talking to people. So we started talking to Universal, we 543 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: started talking to the Hollywood Bawl, we started talking to 544 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: I have to tell you, to be fair, a lot 545 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: of those brain cells died. But we started talking to everybody. 546 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: And Jerry Seltza had a theory because I only wanted 547 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 1: to deal with the big venues, and he said, no, 548 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: you gotta deal with the clubs too. So we dealt 549 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: with the small clubs, we dealt with the medium sized clubs, 550 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 1: and we dealt with and Be and he was right. 551 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,400 Speaker 1: And then we dealt with the arenas, and uh, you know, 552 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:13,760 Speaker 1: Universal came, the Hollywood Bowl came, Irvine Meadows was already 553 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 1: along for the ride. And then you have to understand something. 554 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: I didn't know anything. I'm a lawyer, what do I 555 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 1: know about running a business. So you wake up one 556 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: morning and you took yourself into this, right, I mean 557 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: you're there. And to be clear, because you asked the 558 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: question about Jay Jay was j Prisker was both a 559 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 1: mentor and like a second day to me, it's important 560 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: that I say that. So when we when when he 561 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 1: was gonna put up the money, I served up the 562 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: employment contract that UM I was gonna do with these 563 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: um UM venture capitalists. And then his lawyers get involved, 564 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 1: and I called him up because they, you know, they 565 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 1: looked it tough and I don't want to deal with that. 566 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: And I called J up and I said, you know 567 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: what I feel like. I'm sitting in a closet with 568 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: no windows. The fact that you think I could use 569 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: an employment contract against you when I'm sitting here trying 570 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 1: to figure out how to make money UM and make 571 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 1: this company work. I can't wrap my head around. So 572 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,720 Speaker 1: I'll make you the following deal. You know what it says. 573 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 1: I know what it says. And we lived on a 574 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: handshake for twelve years. There was never a piece of paper. Wow, 575 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 1: So so you know, so the dynamic was that we 576 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 1: were we became very close. He wouldn't fire me, I 577 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,400 Speaker 1: wouldn't quit. We had some interesting moments, but the truth 578 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: was it was a handshake. And if Jay was not 579 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: my partner and he owned more than I did. To 580 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 1: be clear, UM the company would have failed because private 581 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,880 Speaker 1: equity guys worried too much. Jay only cared about one thing. 582 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,800 Speaker 1: As long as you were honest. He didn't care. And 583 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 1: you know, people would call him up and go, you know, 584 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 1: Frit's pissing me off, and go, well, you have to 585 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 1: talk to Fred. That was the kind of owner he was, 586 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,239 Speaker 1: and that was the kind of partner he was. It's 587 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 1: even better way to put it. And so in eight three, 588 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: I'm I'm, you know, doing stuff you know, and I 589 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,320 Speaker 1: don't know anything. So I think, you know, I got 590 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: an interesting idea. I'm gonna have a meeting every day 591 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: at eight o'clock and everybody's gonna tell me what they 592 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 1: did the day before. And people would come in at 593 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 1: eight o'clock and I would tell everybody, look, even if 594 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: you're installing machines, you're in marketing. Because they don't meet me, 595 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: they meet you. You have to think about who what 596 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:40,920 Speaker 1: you are and then come back and tell me what 597 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 1: they say. And during that year I learned everything that 598 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 1: was to learn. Well, let's put it like this, the 599 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,320 Speaker 1: basis of the business, where the money was, how everything 600 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: I did, every job, how everything worked, what I was 601 00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 1: asking people to do, what counted what didn't count. And 602 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 1: you'll find the shocking because I never wrote anything. Everybody 603 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 1: knows that was a big joke with me. Every morning 604 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: I woke up, took out a yellow pad, wrote fifty 605 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,439 Speaker 1: forty to fifty things I wanted to do, and ripped 606 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 1: up the sheet, and then in my mind during the 607 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,320 Speaker 1: day I crossed things off and the next day I 608 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 1: would start again. I worked from the time I woke 609 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: up until I couldn't see anymore. But I'm useless after 610 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,799 Speaker 1: eight thirty or nine o'clock at night. So it was 611 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: like you had to have dinner, but I was. I 612 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 1: knew every place way to get breakfast at five thirty 613 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 1: in the morning. That's what I learned. And look, you 614 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 1: pay a price for that. And you know, Bob, because 615 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,880 Speaker 1: in the early years, as we started to grow, we 616 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:41,719 Speaker 1: took a lot of criticism, and a lot of it 617 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 1: was directed at me. But it was okay for the 618 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:50,399 Speaker 1: following reason. Nobody cares about a computerized ticketing company. Why 619 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,399 Speaker 1: would you care? And I made a real decision at 620 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 1: the beginning that I would take the heat for everybody 621 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,799 Speaker 1: and make it personal because then if you put a 622 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 1: face to it, right, what it does is people start 623 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,560 Speaker 1: to pay attention. And you know in the end there 624 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 1: were acquisitions. UM. You know, UM. I'll answer the questions 625 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 1: you want to ask. But the point was it was 626 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 1: all strategic and if I had not learned to do 627 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: every job in the company, we would have failed because 628 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 1: you can't scale, you can't grow, you can't evolve unless 629 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 1: you understand when you're taking a start up. And I 630 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: knew changing the rules, changing the economics was different. And 631 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 1: the other thing that everybody wanted to do is this. 632 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 1: These are two things I did in contracts that nobody 633 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 1: pays any attention to. One is, UM, I wouldn't sign 634 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: a one year deal. I had no interest in signing 635 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,759 Speaker 1: a one year deal. Waste of time because then you're 636 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 1: always under the gun. The second thing is on three 637 00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:58,759 Speaker 1: and five year contracts, I mostly wanted five, and I 638 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 1: took three. In some cases, raisors were built into the 639 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 1: contract see Tickettron in their contracts said raises are mutual. 640 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: And in talking to a lot of the building managers, 641 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 1: they would go about a month before we would have 642 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,920 Speaker 1: to have this discussion. I would pick a fight and 643 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 1: then tell them they couldn't raise it, and they'd laugh. 644 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,920 Speaker 1: They thought it was funny, and I went, that's stupid. 645 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 1: So when when I started to build in raises, they said, well, 646 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 1: you can't have a raise every year. I said, what 647 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:29,919 Speaker 1: if you're sharing it? Well, that's different. And so so 648 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,880 Speaker 1: all the stuff that you used to rail about or 649 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 1: that people would write about, it was all organized and 650 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 1: so they have well Ticketmaster can do what they want. No, 651 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 1: we can't. Everything was in a contract. The thing is 652 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 1: what I took out of it was that we don't 653 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,400 Speaker 1: have to go back and negotiate every year. And because 654 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 1: it was automatic, there was no discussion. It was just easy. 655 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: You got it done and people were like wow. And 656 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,960 Speaker 1: then they go, well it's not my fault, it's his, 657 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:02,959 Speaker 1: and they call you over, well how do you feel 658 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,920 Speaker 1: about that? And you're going, okay, fine, next you know. 659 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,839 Speaker 1: I mean, at the height of all these controversies, they 660 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,280 Speaker 1: had me setting the price of every ticket in the country. 661 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,680 Speaker 1: Damn me setting the price of every service. Everything was 662 00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 1: in a contract, Everything was negotiated. Everything was there in 663 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: black and white, and I went, why are we different 664 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: than a food service? And then I realized one thing 665 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 1: really early on. No arena is open three sixty five 666 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,560 Speaker 1: days a year. No stadium is open three sixty five 667 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,000 Speaker 1: days a year. Do you know the only vendor that 668 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,200 Speaker 1: operates three and sixty five days a year the ticket company. 669 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,920 Speaker 1: When you're home at Christmas watching a show or a 670 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: sporting event, there's someone in the box office. That means 671 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 1: someone's in the data center. So the whole dynamic of 672 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 1: how you were looking at this business, and I will 673 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:58,719 Speaker 1: tell you this, the systems didn't work. This was the 674 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 1: Forum's definition of default. You need to be down for 675 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,640 Speaker 1: more than an hour, and then you needed to be 676 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,720 Speaker 1: down for more than an hour twice, and that counted 677 00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,440 Speaker 1: one event of default. And yet to have four events 678 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 1: of default in a quarter to be in default, so 679 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,239 Speaker 1: that was eight hours. So they go, well, you're only 680 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,359 Speaker 1: down for fifteen minutes. That doesn't count. By the end 681 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 1: of the third year, if we went down twenty minutes 682 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:28,000 Speaker 1: in a year, people were nuts. And part of the reason, 683 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 1: and I'll say this later, you know when you ask 684 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 1: in the last you know, um Taylor Swift, mess Siki 685 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,080 Speaker 1: had five shows at the Brooklyn Arena and they blew 686 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,800 Speaker 1: up and you know that they lost that contract. Here's 687 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:50,440 Speaker 1: the reason why Ticketmaster continues to be dominant more than 688 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 1: any other reason and why no one can scale, no 689 00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,880 Speaker 1: one will give them the ability to make the mistakes 690 00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:01,799 Speaker 1: we did. In the first three years, people compared us 691 00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:07,080 Speaker 1: to ticket Tron and ticket Trunk was terrible, outages, couldn't 692 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:15,560 Speaker 1: find them, difficult, difficult, systems slow, not connected. During that period, 693 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 1: we made a lot of mistakes, make no bones about it. 694 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,120 Speaker 1: We blew up. I can't tell you how many times. 695 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:26,120 Speaker 1: But here's the difference. When people left ticket Tron to 696 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:29,239 Speaker 1: go to ticket Master was walking off a curb. For 697 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,200 Speaker 1: people to leave Ticketmaster today, you gotta jump out of 698 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,920 Speaker 1: a third of what stirring window because no system can 699 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 1: scale and no one will give them the opportunity to 700 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:43,319 Speaker 1: make the mistakes Ticketmaster hat. In other words, we we 701 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,480 Speaker 1: had that freedom because the competition was awful. It was terrible. 702 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,320 Speaker 1: And then what happened is we got bigger and you 703 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,120 Speaker 1: kept evolving your system. And I'm talking about the sixteen 704 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,319 Speaker 1: years I was there, not I can't talk about what 705 00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:00,400 Speaker 1: came afterwards. Every time we made major system up grades, 706 00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:02,880 Speaker 1: we'd go to a C market or a B market 707 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:08,239 Speaker 1: and say, listen, we've got these new um improvements, but 708 00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,440 Speaker 1: we you know, we gotta debug it, and so we 709 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,400 Speaker 1: debug it in some region, and we'd pay the buildings, 710 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:18,000 Speaker 1: or we'd give them certain benefits that other buildings wouldn't have. Well, 711 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,520 Speaker 1: we had a chance to test it. So when people 712 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:22,680 Speaker 1: sit in the room and go, I don't understand why 713 00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,040 Speaker 1: I take a master's dominant the dominant because it works 714 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,600 Speaker 1: better than anybody else. And nobody's got the freedom to 715 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:33,319 Speaker 1: scale because nobody, nobody's willing to take the mistakes that 716 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,439 Speaker 1: we made that we had between eighty two and eight 717 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:41,200 Speaker 1: five and eighties six. You follow what I'm saying, Let 718 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,520 Speaker 1: me just ask you a question. The modern ney Uh 719 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:51,520 Speaker 1: paradigm of giving of paying the arena or venue for 720 00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:56,200 Speaker 1: an exclusive contract, how did that come about? At the beginning, 721 00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,360 Speaker 1: I wouldn't do it unless I could take an exclusive 722 00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,360 Speaker 1: that That was the first contract I own. No, the 723 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:07,080 Speaker 1: reverse where the ticket company pays the venue. From the beginning, 724 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,279 Speaker 1: it came from me. It came because I watched the 725 00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,200 Speaker 1: food concession has pay the building. I watched the parking 726 00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:17,880 Speaker 1: concession has pay the building. I watched everybody paying the building. Well, 727 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,320 Speaker 1: just because I know, so if the food concession or 728 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 1: wants to the food concession, they pay X amount of 729 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,080 Speaker 1: dollars right up front. Well, they do two things. They 730 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:32,919 Speaker 1: put in all the equipment right and and they either well, 731 00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,080 Speaker 1: we didn't pay anybody up front for five or six years. 732 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,800 Speaker 1: That that's a misnomer. That may have been even longer 733 00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:44,440 Speaker 1: than that. People got revenue streams from day one. But 734 00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:48,000 Speaker 1: but but advances we didn't make. But the food companies 735 00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:52,320 Speaker 1: started making advances. And you're a concessionaire in the building. 736 00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,440 Speaker 1: So I didn't invent that. I just took it from 737 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:58,640 Speaker 1: another pot and said, okay, we can do that. Um. 738 00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:03,560 Speaker 1: One of the things that we did it was, um, 739 00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:05,960 Speaker 1: people always came to us for money because we were 740 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,719 Speaker 1: the bank. I mean fundamentally were the bank. We had 741 00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,319 Speaker 1: the ticket money. But but before I go there, let 742 00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:13,719 Speaker 1: me let me add the follow it. Of all the 743 00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:17,440 Speaker 1: criticisms you've heard of Ticketmaster and anybody more wired than 744 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:21,480 Speaker 1: you are, I don't know they hear anybody ever say 745 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,080 Speaker 1: they didn't get an order that was honest. Anybody say 746 00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,719 Speaker 1: they didn't get all their money. See, nobody wants to talk. 747 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:28,839 Speaker 1: Nobody wants to talk about that. They had a real 748 00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,560 Speaker 1: manifest I had one broke. One promoter in Europe said 749 00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:34,600 Speaker 1: I'll never use your system. It's too accurate actually said that. 750 00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:38,320 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we cleaned up an industry that 751 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:42,000 Speaker 1: nobody wants to pay attention to rose, that that didn't 752 00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,560 Speaker 1: exist on manifests, orders, that that people didn't get paid on. 753 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,920 Speaker 1: We would never There are two things to know of 754 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:52,839 Speaker 1: how I looked at the business. One two things people 755 00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,760 Speaker 1: have sense of humor about. One is money. The second 756 00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,319 Speaker 1: is systems. You can't be a day later a dollar 757 00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,600 Speaker 1: short and you're some better work. Everything else is marketing. 758 00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:07,080 Speaker 1: Everything everything else is marketing. And so the impact of 759 00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:12,759 Speaker 1: what what we did was we would give people money 760 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,240 Speaker 1: and you know, and pay them weekly. And then somewhere 761 00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,239 Speaker 1: along the line, I can't I don't even remember the 762 00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:23,720 Speaker 1: building we did it with, somebody said I need money. 763 00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,880 Speaker 1: What else was new? And by the way, the music business, 764 00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:28,799 Speaker 1: you well know is what's mine is mine and what 765 00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,200 Speaker 1: yours was we're going to negotiate for. And one of 766 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,360 Speaker 1: the early negotiations was, well, if you charge three dollars 767 00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,040 Speaker 1: on my twenty dollar ticket, then I should charge twenty three. 768 00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,440 Speaker 1: And I go, well, in charge twenty three, and they go, 769 00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,440 Speaker 1: what are you going to charge? I said three. I said. 770 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,880 Speaker 1: What you need to understand is this The system works 771 00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,200 Speaker 1: you don't complain about getting paid, you don't complain about 772 00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,280 Speaker 1: the audience, you don't complain. You're looking for the money. 773 00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:54,719 Speaker 1: You're not getting the money from New Jersey because I 774 00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,960 Speaker 1: had regional banks in five or six places. And here's 775 00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,560 Speaker 1: what nobody pays attention to, which will get too later 776 00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:05,279 Speaker 1: with Tikotron. From day one being a lawyer, there were 777 00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:07,919 Speaker 1: two kinds of accounts I had. So if I took 778 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,000 Speaker 1: in a hundred and ten dollars that went into a 779 00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,120 Speaker 1: client account, ten dollars went into my account and the 780 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,160 Speaker 1: hundred dollars stayed in the client account. And as we 781 00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:20,439 Speaker 1: got bigger and became a borrowing company, the banks could 782 00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:24,160 Speaker 1: not have access to our client accounts. But every company 783 00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:28,280 Speaker 1: I bought, including ticket Tron, was in the client accounts. 784 00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:30,879 Speaker 1: And on closing on Tikatron, they wrote us a check, 785 00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,200 Speaker 1: not the other way around, because they were using everybody's 786 00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:37,920 Speaker 1: money to operate. We didn't do that, and I didn't 787 00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,439 Speaker 1: do that from day one, even when I was losing money. 788 00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:44,400 Speaker 1: So in the in the world of people not knowing 789 00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:49,080 Speaker 1: and paying attention, that was real. We we ran our 790 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:53,040 Speaker 1: business clean. And the reason that over the years under 791 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:56,400 Speaker 1: my watch, why the government never did anything. And I 792 00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,120 Speaker 1: always respect the fact that government could do anything they want. 793 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,520 Speaker 1: Is no company. It was like going to the practologists. 794 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,680 Speaker 1: Everyone looked at us and they went through the company 795 00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:07,560 Speaker 1: and they went through how we did our business. And 796 00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:12,399 Speaker 1: you know what, you're not a clean business, a totally clean, absolute, 797 00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,080 Speaker 1: you know, honest business, where the money was, how the 798 00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:19,720 Speaker 1: money was handled, who got paid. There isn't one promoter 799 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:21,600 Speaker 1: who can sit in the room and go, oh, I 800 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,400 Speaker 1: didn't get my money, or Fred took my We didn't 801 00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:26,719 Speaker 1: do any of that. And nobody wants to pay any 802 00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:28,919 Speaker 1: attention to that when they write it. And you think 803 00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,520 Speaker 1: of all those little ticket companies that weren't broke, and 804 00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:35,239 Speaker 1: the reason we bought Tickettron is they were in the 805 00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,839 Speaker 1: client accounts to the tune of north to fourteen million dollars. 806 00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:43,839 Speaker 1: And the reason I bought them was if they went broke, 807 00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,200 Speaker 1: every single governmental agency would talk about how you're gonna 808 00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:50,040 Speaker 1: handle the money, and I didn't want that. It was 809 00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:52,759 Speaker 1: cheaper to buy it and just you know, let them 810 00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,640 Speaker 1: pay it and make everything right. And here's the thing 811 00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,799 Speaker 1: that was interesting. We paid the little guys because right 812 00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:02,440 Speaker 1: away because live hand to mouth. But the big arenas. 813 00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:04,800 Speaker 1: The numbers were so screwed up. I didn't pay anybody 814 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,360 Speaker 1: in America for four weeks on the big arenas. And 815 00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:12,160 Speaker 1: they called me up and said, Fred, are we good? 816 00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,000 Speaker 1: Are you good for the money? I said, I give 817 00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,200 Speaker 1: you my word, we're good for the money. You cannot 818 00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,080 Speaker 1: comprehend how screwed up these books are. And when we 819 00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,960 Speaker 1: make the settlement, if you think there's any discrepancy, you 820 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,920 Speaker 1: know how to find me, pick up the phone and 821 00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,719 Speaker 1: we'll solve anything. No one's gonna take one dollar from 822 00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:31,200 Speaker 1: you or one penny from you that doesn't belong. And 823 00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,280 Speaker 1: everybody waited four weeks until we could put the numbers together. 824 00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,400 Speaker 1: Nobody screamed and yelled. Nobody went. I would get calls. 825 00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,239 Speaker 1: Do I have your word? I you got my word? 826 00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,040 Speaker 1: And you know none of that got written. But the 827 00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:48,280 Speaker 1: point is that's what having integrity and honesty and being 828 00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:59,520 Speaker 1: open about with the industry. And you know, okay, just 829 00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:04,279 Speaker 1: to be very clear, you took four weeks to pay. 830 00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,719 Speaker 1: As years went by, it wasn't four weeks. No, you 831 00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:12,840 Speaker 1: got paid every week. Okay, next thing, because the public 832 00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,200 Speaker 1: is always concerned about this, especially today when gigs are 833 00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:20,560 Speaker 1: put on sale, a year in advance. You take the 834 00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,319 Speaker 1: money and you pay the buildings once a week. You 835 00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:26,319 Speaker 1: don't hold the money. Money goes to the money goes 836 00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:28,839 Speaker 1: to the arenas once a week. And we had a rule. 837 00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,040 Speaker 1: We had I had a rule. So when I didn't 838 00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:33,920 Speaker 1: pay the buildings for four weeks, it was because I 839 00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,080 Speaker 1: couldn't put the numbers together. And then they went back 840 00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:38,799 Speaker 1: to being paid on a weekly basis. The point is this, 841 00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,279 Speaker 1: even ticket trans clients knew how screwed up they were. 842 00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:45,759 Speaker 1: It wasn't only us. They knew how screwed up they were. 843 00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,080 Speaker 1: And the way we would do our business is this. 844 00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:51,799 Speaker 1: You'd get paid for Monday through Sunday, you get a 845 00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,640 Speaker 1: wire transfer on Wednesday at Thursday of the following week, 846 00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,200 Speaker 1: and buildings like the Forum in the meadow Lands and 847 00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,960 Speaker 1: United States, all those buildings got paid. And today you know, 848 00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,480 Speaker 1: Live Nation puts stuff on sale a year in advance, 849 00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:07,799 Speaker 1: they get paid. I mean it's you're not you're not 850 00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,319 Speaker 1: holding on to that money. The day of holding on 851 00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,799 Speaker 1: money for float is gone. But that was gone under 852 00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:17,760 Speaker 1: my watch. Okay. And a little bit slower, why exactly 853 00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:23,560 Speaker 1: did you buy ticket tron Because if they if they 854 00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,280 Speaker 1: closed and filed bankruptcy. The public would have been stuck 855 00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:30,400 Speaker 1: for eighteen million dollars, and that meant that would have 856 00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:33,399 Speaker 1: been investigations that would have meant, how do you hold 857 00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:35,960 Speaker 1: the money? How do you do this? And I chose 858 00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:39,399 Speaker 1: to say, better we buy them and make everybody right, 859 00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:43,520 Speaker 1: then spend time in forty states explaining to people what's 860 00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:47,440 Speaker 1: going on. I did it to protect the industry. I 861 00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:50,080 Speaker 1: really did it to protect the industry and protect myself, 862 00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:58,440 Speaker 1: totally clear. Let's jump forward to Pearl Jam in nineties. 863 00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,520 Speaker 1: I knew you were going to do that. Wait wait, wait, wait, 864 00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:06,160 Speaker 1: give me your side of the story. There is no side. 865 00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:10,640 Speaker 1: What happened was this? The Pearl Jam's story started with 866 00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:13,600 Speaker 1: a guy whose name you know, but I'm not gonna 867 00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:20,600 Speaker 1: do that. Who the Sting called me up and said, 868 00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:23,200 Speaker 1: Sting is gonna do one show at the will Turn Theater. 869 00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:27,200 Speaker 1: Do you remember that? Does that even doing? And okay, 870 00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:31,200 Speaker 1: so how are we going to do that? I said, Well, 871 00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:36,719 Speaker 1: the fairest way to do it is to do phones only. Um, 872 00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:38,520 Speaker 1: you know, I forget what he was going to charge 873 00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:40,919 Speaker 1: a ticket? Will do three dollars and we'll do We'll 874 00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:42,840 Speaker 1: make sure no one gets two tickets. It will be 875 00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:47,360 Speaker 1: two tickets. I'll make sure that we cross reference credit cards, 876 00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:50,600 Speaker 1: addresses and all the stuff that goes with that, and 877 00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:53,800 Speaker 1: we'll do it that way. Because the demand was twenty 878 00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,680 Speaker 1: of those, you know, the will turn was eighteen hundred seats. 879 00:52:56,719 --> 00:53:01,720 Speaker 1: I can't even remember whatever, and so so we agreed 880 00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:06,320 Speaker 1: and that's how it worked. And then the same person 881 00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:08,360 Speaker 1: called me on Pearl Jam he was gonna do the 882 00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:12,319 Speaker 1: show at the Orpheum Theater in Boston. I said, well, 883 00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:14,160 Speaker 1: we can't do the show with the outlets. That's gonna 884 00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:16,200 Speaker 1: be a war. I mean, you could sell ten of those. 885 00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,520 Speaker 1: I said, are you open to doing the same thing 886 00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:25,879 Speaker 1: we did? Was sting, and he said yes, And so 887 00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,160 Speaker 1: it was like an eighteen dollar ticket and three dollars 888 00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:31,440 Speaker 1: on the phone and the next thing I know, and 889 00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:33,960 Speaker 1: I know you'll find the shocking as I was blindsided. 890 00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:37,439 Speaker 1: No one talked to me, no one said a word 891 00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:41,400 Speaker 1: to me, and then this whole ship storm started and 892 00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:48,239 Speaker 1: I was caught unaware, and I was amazed that the 893 00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:50,680 Speaker 1: band got involved. I mean, I didn't even know three 894 00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:54,080 Speaker 1: quarters of the stuff that subsequently came out later for real, 895 00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:58,560 Speaker 1: and I mean, it's none of it made any sense. 896 00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,320 Speaker 1: And I found out that the guy who was behind 897 00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:06,319 Speaker 1: all that I was trying to get himself into the 898 00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:09,960 Speaker 1: ticket business and he had a willing group of guys 899 00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:14,040 Speaker 1: who look I think Pearl Jam's a really great band, 900 00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:17,239 Speaker 1: and I think they walked into a controversy they didn't understand. 901 00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:21,920 Speaker 1: And I would say for six months we got our 902 00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:24,799 Speaker 1: head handed to us. They were uh. And it led 903 00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:28,600 Speaker 1: to a Department of Justice investigation and twenty eight attorney generals. 904 00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:30,920 Speaker 1: And the only thing I've ever said about that is 905 00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:34,160 Speaker 1: I was glad the system work because everybody left we 906 00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:39,279 Speaker 1: signed nothing. The more facts they found, um, the more 907 00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:42,120 Speaker 1: they understood that what they were told with two different things. 908 00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:50,520 Speaker 1: And then um, um, Sherry Washerman and maybe it was 909 00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,600 Speaker 1: pearl Off, I can't remember, asked us, asked me to 910 00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:57,600 Speaker 1: have a meeting with um Kelly Curtis at the old 911 00:54:57,680 --> 00:54:59,640 Speaker 1: Nico Hotel in Los Angeles, you know the one on 912 00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:03,160 Speaker 1: less Jennaga. Of course that's a manager of Pearl Jam 913 00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:05,880 Speaker 1: for those who don't know. Yeah, And and I meet Kelly, 914 00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:11,040 Speaker 1: and Kelly was the Pearl Jam was was in in 915 00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,920 Speaker 1: of Washington, d C. The month before doing a benefit 916 00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:19,319 Speaker 1: concert for Gloria steinhum and she gets on stage and says, 917 00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:21,319 Speaker 1: you know, I'm all full lower tickets. I called her 918 00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,520 Speaker 1: because I've given her money. And I go, Gloria, before 919 00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:26,360 Speaker 1: you walk into this, why don't you know the facts. 920 00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:29,560 Speaker 1: And I said, you know what you're being told is 921 00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:32,399 Speaker 1: not true. And I sat with Kelly and I said, look, 922 00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:35,799 Speaker 1: I give myself a D minus vow. I handled it 923 00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:41,799 Speaker 1: last year. This was a I was blindsided. I was defensive, 924 00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:46,319 Speaker 1: and I didn't understand a lot. I couldn't understand where 925 00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:50,399 Speaker 1: it came from. I mean, I was shocked. And I said, 926 00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:54,880 Speaker 1: but look, it's time to move on. Do a benefit concert. 927 00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:56,440 Speaker 1: What you want to do is going to be a 928 00:55:56,520 --> 00:56:00,520 Speaker 1: nightmare and a disaster. I will give a hunt represented 929 00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:05,279 Speaker 1: the service charge to any charity you want, but this 930 00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:11,480 Speaker 1: ends now. And he said to me, we're gonna change 931 00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:15,960 Speaker 1: the whole concert business. And I said to him, let 932 00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:19,960 Speaker 1: me explain the reality. I'm a lot smarter this year 933 00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,759 Speaker 1: than I was last year. You've got four kids who 934 00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,799 Speaker 1: are millionaires. I got five thousand people who worked for 935 00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:32,360 Speaker 1: me phone rooms, who are minorities, who welfare mothers, who 936 00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,879 Speaker 1: you know, need the gig. And we do a lot 937 00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:38,040 Speaker 1: of work in the inner cities and we take care 938 00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:40,399 Speaker 1: of a lot of different people. You're not gonna win. 939 00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:44,399 Speaker 1: I know what the game is now, You're not gonna win. 940 00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:48,600 Speaker 1: Go your tour is going to be a disaster. Don't 941 00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:54,080 Speaker 1: do it. He's no, We're gonna change the world. It 942 00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:58,000 Speaker 1: blew up. I've read pieces that I helped blow it up. 943 00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:00,520 Speaker 1: I had as much to blowing to. I had as 944 00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:03,359 Speaker 1: much to do blowing it up as you did. We 945 00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:06,960 Speaker 1: stayed away from it intentionally because it would fall back 946 00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:10,440 Speaker 1: on us. And you know, in the end, they never 947 00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:12,879 Speaker 1: should have done what they did. And here's the part 948 00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:16,840 Speaker 1: that was crazy, because you will appreciate this. No other 949 00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:19,560 Speaker 1: group joined them. And it wasn't because we had power. 950 00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,280 Speaker 1: It was because people talk to us. So you know 951 00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:28,000 Speaker 1: Ian McKellan and Fugazi. Fugazi had five dollar tickets. A 952 00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:32,040 Speaker 1: year before the Pearl Jam thing. He placed some building 953 00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:34,280 Speaker 1: in Chicago and they put a three dollar service charge 954 00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:38,360 Speaker 1: on it, and he blew a fit. And I read 955 00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:40,760 Speaker 1: it about it one of the trade magazines and I said, 956 00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:43,560 Speaker 1: he's right. So I said to one of the guys 957 00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:46,440 Speaker 1: that golden voice, can you connect me with him? I 958 00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:49,160 Speaker 1: spoke to him and I said First of all, let 959 00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:53,480 Speaker 1: me apologize, because if you're doing five dollar tickets, you 960 00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:55,720 Speaker 1: care about your craft and you care about your fans. 961 00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:58,800 Speaker 1: So you tell me what's a fast service charge? He said, 962 00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:01,040 Speaker 1: A dollar? I said, line, you got it on all 963 00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:04,040 Speaker 1: your shows. I'll let everybody know. And what about the phones? 964 00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:05,720 Speaker 1: He says, I don't care about that. You can judge 965 00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:08,840 Speaker 1: two or three dollars because nobody buys my phone. Fine. 966 00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:12,560 Speaker 1: Three months later he blows another fit because you know buildings, 967 00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:15,360 Speaker 1: you know if it's five dollars in advance and seven 968 00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:17,280 Speaker 1: dollars at the door. And he blames us for the 969 00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:19,360 Speaker 1: two dollars. And I call him up and I go 970 00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:24,720 Speaker 1: I he said, I know it wasn't you. It wasn't you. 971 00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:27,360 Speaker 1: You've been a really straight up guy. It will not 972 00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:32,320 Speaker 1: happen again. Fine, stunt Temple pilots, I made a deal 973 00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:35,520 Speaker 1: um rage against the machine. I mean deals with everybody 974 00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:39,240 Speaker 1: who talked to me. You know when they when they 975 00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:41,320 Speaker 1: when they talk to us about stunt temble polish, is 976 00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:45,160 Speaker 1: I got an I've got an elevator of of of prices. 977 00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:47,640 Speaker 1: Can you move some of the stuff to the higher 978 00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,760 Speaker 1: prices and reduced the lower prices of course, common sense 979 00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:54,200 Speaker 1: did it for all these acts, which is why no 980 00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:57,520 Speaker 1: one joined them, and they're sitting there by themselves. And 981 00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:00,760 Speaker 1: there's one I want to get in. Tim Collins, as 982 00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:06,000 Speaker 1: you know, testified at the hearings, manager VERYL. Smith, Manager 983 00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:09,640 Speaker 1: Arrass Smith. And a year later he comes to see 984 00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:13,760 Speaker 1: me and he apologizes because he won't admit it. He said, 985 00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:15,320 Speaker 1: I was just trying to be cool. I know you 986 00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:19,640 Speaker 1: won't hold it against me, and I go, life moves on. Look, 987 00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:24,920 Speaker 1: no one showed up for this except them, and I 988 00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,360 Speaker 1: think they would take an advantage of I think they 989 00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:31,080 Speaker 1: didn't quite understand what they were walking into, and they 990 00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:35,240 Speaker 1: self destructed on their own. It's nothing I'm particularly feel 991 00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:39,200 Speaker 1: good about or bad about, um. But in the end 992 00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:44,080 Speaker 1: everybody left, the government left, the Attorney General's left, and 993 00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:48,400 Speaker 1: the class action lossuits a roll bullshit anyway. So the 994 00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:53,760 Speaker 1: dynamic for all of that is that's the truth. Okay, okay, 995 00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:56,840 Speaker 1: let's move on from there. How does Prince tur decide 996 00:59:56,880 --> 01:00:00,840 Speaker 1: to get out? No, he didn't decide. I decided. We 997 01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,680 Speaker 1: were sitting in a room it was and I said, Jay, 998 01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:08,160 Speaker 1: we're doing really great, and you know I love you. 999 01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:10,800 Speaker 1: But there are two choices you know, I want to 1000 01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:14,960 Speaker 1: put some money away and or go public. And Jay 1001 01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:16,440 Speaker 1: didn't want to go public. And he said, what do 1002 01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:18,200 Speaker 1: you think the company's worth? And I told him and 1003 01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:21,280 Speaker 1: he said, you'll never get that. And in the space 1004 01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:23,360 Speaker 1: of thirty days we had five bids for more than 1005 01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:26,880 Speaker 1: I said. And then it took a year, and then 1006 01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:32,120 Speaker 1: Paul Allen ultimately bought the company for the company forty 1007 01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:35,680 Speaker 1: million dollars. But it was really Jay would never have 1008 01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:39,880 Speaker 1: sold it, Bob, But you know, Jay, it was a 1009 01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:45,280 Speaker 1: billionaire before they were billionaires. And I had always worked 1010 01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:49,280 Speaker 1: since I was sixteen, and I wanted to put away 1011 01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:51,680 Speaker 1: a chunk of money, which I think is fair. I'm 1012 01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:55,439 Speaker 1: entitled to it. I did it. And and when when 1013 01:00:55,480 --> 01:01:00,080 Speaker 1: Paul bought the company, he said and and and j 1014 01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:03,320 Speaker 1: said to me, look, I don't want you to negotiate 1015 01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:06,600 Speaker 1: you a deal until I have our deal, which is 1016 01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:10,640 Speaker 1: basically the price of the company. So they agree on 1017 01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:14,080 Speaker 1: a price, and then Paul comes to me and I 1018 01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:18,040 Speaker 1: tell him what I want and he basically says, you're 1019 01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:21,720 Speaker 1: out of your mind. And I go, fine, then I'll 1020 01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:23,760 Speaker 1: give you a one year deal and I'll leave. I 1021 01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:25,840 Speaker 1: was happy to go. I mean I've been working since 1022 01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:28,600 Speaker 1: I was a kid. My dad died at fifty two. 1023 01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:31,800 Speaker 1: That always sits in the back of your mind. Um, 1024 01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:35,960 Speaker 1: I was sixty years old. And I said, I'll give 1025 01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:40,040 Speaker 1: you a one year transition, okay, um, whatever you want. 1026 01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:43,040 Speaker 1: You can fill in a number. I don't care. And 1027 01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:46,160 Speaker 1: he came back to me and said, no, I want 1028 01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:48,720 Speaker 1: to I want you to stay. And then he went 1029 01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:52,200 Speaker 1: to Jay and said, I understand you're the only person 1030 01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:56,120 Speaker 1: who has moral suasion on Fred. And Jay said that's true. 1031 01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:59,040 Speaker 1: I do. Went very close, and he said I need 1032 01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:02,120 Speaker 1: your help, and Jay said, Paul, let me explain this. 1033 01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:05,040 Speaker 1: I can't help you. Fred said he'd stay out of 1034 01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:07,120 Speaker 1: the deal for us, and I told him I'd stay 1035 01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:10,000 Speaker 1: out of the deal for him, So I can't help 1036 01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:11,840 Speaker 1: you with that. You're gonna have to figure it out. 1037 01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:14,200 Speaker 1: And Paul did call me a couple of days later 1038 01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:16,640 Speaker 1: and he and he goes like this, Okay, you can 1039 01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:19,120 Speaker 1: have your deal, and I said, and he was not 1040 01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:21,320 Speaker 1: happy about it, and I said, well, I gotta think 1041 01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:22,760 Speaker 1: about it now because I didn't think you were going 1042 01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:24,840 Speaker 1: to do it. But I'll call you back in a 1043 01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:26,760 Speaker 1: couple of days. And he said, well, I'm not giving 1044 01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:28,760 Speaker 1: you more. I said, I didn't ask for more. I 1045 01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:31,760 Speaker 1: actually thought I was getting out those are you know, 1046 01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:36,120 Speaker 1: those are stories that aren't written anywhere, Bob Okay. So 1047 01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:40,600 Speaker 1: what was it like working for Paul Allen? Paul was 1048 01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:50,480 Speaker 1: a strange guy. Um, I didn't understand client relationships. Um. 1049 01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:54,800 Speaker 1: For the most part, he did not engage. UM. You know, 1050 01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:57,600 Speaker 1: we had the controversies with Microsoft at the time. He 1051 01:02:57,720 --> 01:03:02,080 Speaker 1: left me alone to a great extent. Um. But when 1052 01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:07,160 Speaker 1: we were when we were going from information on the 1053 01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:11,160 Speaker 1: internet to doing transactions, my level of concerning with some 1054 01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:14,080 Speaker 1: kid in Peoria, We've got seven thousand tickets for you too, 1055 01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:16,600 Speaker 1: and I wanted to make sure we had all the 1056 01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:20,880 Speaker 1: firewalls appropriate. And I think he took it as a 1057 01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:23,400 Speaker 1: level of disobedience, like, you know, you need to do 1058 01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:25,520 Speaker 1: what I want. And I go, well, I can't do 1059 01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:28,479 Speaker 1: what you want if I put clients in jeopardy. These 1060 01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:31,040 Speaker 1: these are people I have relationships with, These are people 1061 01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:34,880 Speaker 1: that I have obligations too. He didn't understand any of that. 1062 01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:38,720 Speaker 1: He just thought I was being difficult. And I acknowledge 1063 01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:42,360 Speaker 1: I'm difficult, but it wasn't difficult without a reason. And 1064 01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:44,880 Speaker 1: then I said finally, Okay, we'll do it in the Northwest. 1065 01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:50,000 Speaker 1: And the first guy who used the service was a 1066 01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:53,040 Speaker 1: guy from Tumwa to Washington. I still remember this. So 1067 01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:55,760 Speaker 1: somebody comes, somebody O and go. Somebody brought one ticket 1068 01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:57,560 Speaker 1: for a baseball game. I said, we'll call him up 1069 01:03:57,560 --> 01:03:59,439 Speaker 1: and ask him why they did it. And the guy said, 1070 01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:01,800 Speaker 1: I don't like talking to people and I don't like 1071 01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:06,360 Speaker 1: talking to you. I should have put that up on 1072 01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:09,720 Speaker 1: the wall. I mean, because that was the beginning. And 1073 01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:12,240 Speaker 1: then we took it across the country. And you know, 1074 01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:15,880 Speaker 1: when we we were probably the first company to make 1075 01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:20,800 Speaker 1: money on the internet for real. Okay, how does uh 1076 01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:27,640 Speaker 1: it transfer to Barry Diller? When Barry came? Uh? Barry, 1077 01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:31,400 Speaker 1: it's very smart. Barry is a really smart financial engineer. 1078 01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:36,280 Speaker 1: And my contract had a year left. Well, let's talk 1079 01:04:36,320 --> 01:04:38,720 Speaker 1: about the sale first. How I went from Paul Allen 1080 01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:42,520 Speaker 1: to Barry Diller. He he did that deal and he 1081 01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:46,800 Speaker 1: didn't consult me truth just because you know the numbers 1082 01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:52,040 Speaker 1: did did Was it a good investment for Paul Allen? Um? 1083 01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:55,160 Speaker 1: It was close. I think Paul was frustrated on some 1084 01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:59,400 Speaker 1: levels on this UM and so when he sold it 1085 01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:02,080 Speaker 1: to Diller, you know, a lot of people try to 1086 01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:06,640 Speaker 1: get me to say you can stay, and I really, 1087 01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:11,440 Speaker 1: Barry's the guy wants total control and he's entitled to it. Um. 1088 01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:15,840 Speaker 1: And I never worked for anybody, so I knew at 1089 01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:18,800 Speaker 1: some point I was going to leave. And then once 1090 01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:21,480 Speaker 1: um he came to the rest of the company, I 1091 01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:25,680 Speaker 1: basically left. Um. You know, we had a what I 1092 01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:33,480 Speaker 1: would call a purely professional, at times strained relationship, but 1093 01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:36,919 Speaker 1: he never interfered with what I was doing. But look, 1094 01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:39,560 Speaker 1: it's his company, and when it was his company, it 1095 01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:44,120 Speaker 1: wasn't my company anymore. And UM, you know, where I 1096 01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:47,200 Speaker 1: had had ultimate freedom to do what I want, I 1097 01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:49,840 Speaker 1: didn't have that any you know, even though he said, 1098 01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:52,160 Speaker 1: you know, he said, we're being very careful about your contract. 1099 01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:53,800 Speaker 1: We want to make sure we don't because we know 1100 01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:57,280 Speaker 1: you have total control. But in the end, Barry's Barry 1101 01:05:57,560 --> 01:06:00,840 Speaker 1: is a brilliant financial engineer. Aaron looked, the guys made 1102 01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:03,200 Speaker 1: a billion dollars. You gotta give him credit. And he 1103 01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:06,000 Speaker 1: he knows how to buy these companies. And I'm not 1104 01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:08,120 Speaker 1: gonna say anything negative about him, even though you know, 1105 01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:11,840 Speaker 1: he's not somebody that he and I became friends. UM, 1106 01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:17,160 Speaker 1: and the I have great respect for him, and you 1107 01:06:17,240 --> 01:06:19,920 Speaker 1: gotta make your It was my journey, and I figured 1108 01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:23,919 Speaker 1: the journey ended. So just to be clear, how long 1109 01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:29,400 Speaker 1: did you work with Barry? Maybe a year, maybe less? Okay, 1110 01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:33,200 Speaker 1: Now I realize you leave there in the nineties and 1111 01:06:33,240 --> 01:06:37,280 Speaker 1: there's been evolution since then. But you are certainly a 1112 01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:43,760 Speaker 1: student of the game. So we have fees, whatever we 1113 01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:49,320 Speaker 1: label them, forget it. When you were involved, how were 1114 01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:54,200 Speaker 1: the fees created in terms of the amount and how 1115 01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:58,840 Speaker 1: were they divvied up. That's a question with no answer 1116 01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:02,160 Speaker 1: because it was a case by a spasis. Okay, then 1117 01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:06,480 Speaker 1: let me ask you this. So you're getting fees. Some 1118 01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:11,320 Speaker 1: goes to the building, some goes to ticket master. How 1119 01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:16,080 Speaker 1: long was it before someone to the promoter on at 1120 01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:22,160 Speaker 1: the beginning, See here's how it worked. The promoters often 1121 01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:24,240 Speaker 1: took you into the building, no matter where you are 1122 01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:27,240 Speaker 1: in the country, So you'd make you deal with the building, 1123 01:07:28,560 --> 01:07:30,600 Speaker 1: and then they'd say, listen, we got to take care 1124 01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:33,560 Speaker 1: of the promoter, and we'd add that on. And then 1125 01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:36,040 Speaker 1: one of the things that changing the phones. This is 1126 01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:39,320 Speaker 1: really interesting. None of the acts wanted to pay the 1127 01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:44,040 Speaker 1: credit card charge, so that got added to the phone 1128 01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:47,080 Speaker 1: to start with, which everybody got confused about. Okay, just 1129 01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:51,080 Speaker 1: to be very interesting, you're doing incredible volume. What percentage 1130 01:07:51,120 --> 01:07:55,560 Speaker 1: you paying for the credit card MX was in the threes. 1131 01:07:56,480 --> 01:08:01,280 Speaker 1: The the into into bank rate was really less than two. 1132 01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:05,240 Speaker 1: You know, you could figure out the margins between point 1133 01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:07,640 Speaker 1: and a half and a point eight. But you also 1134 01:08:07,680 --> 01:08:10,400 Speaker 1: had to recognize that you also ate all the chargebacks. 1135 01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:17,160 Speaker 1: And there was one of your growth volume was fraud um, 1136 01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:20,640 Speaker 1: which you ate the buildings didn't need it. You ate 1137 01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:26,320 Speaker 1: it um for expensive tickets um, the ones that were 1138 01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:28,400 Speaker 1: over a thousand dollars. And there were some events that 1139 01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:30,640 Speaker 1: were I made people signed stuff before I send it 1140 01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:33,080 Speaker 1: to him. We had a form that we would fax 1141 01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:34,800 Speaker 1: to them and they would sign it because it made 1142 01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:39,800 Speaker 1: it harder to charge it back. Um. You know, that's 1143 01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:41,960 Speaker 1: just the course of doing business. You just build that 1144 01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:52,240 Speaker 1: into the dynamic. Okay, I interrupted you. You were talking 1145 01:08:52,320 --> 01:08:55,519 Speaker 1: about the accident. Want to eat the charge? Keep going? 1146 01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:59,040 Speaker 1: And then and then there was another thing I had separate. 1147 01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:02,280 Speaker 1: This changed after I left. The outlet was less than 1148 01:09:02,320 --> 01:09:05,920 Speaker 1: the phones because you've built all that into the phone charge. 1149 01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:09,560 Speaker 1: And then when I left, they decided to just yank 1150 01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:11,720 Speaker 1: make the service charge the same as the outlets and 1151 01:09:11,760 --> 01:09:14,920 Speaker 1: the phones, and so they started to take credit cards 1152 01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:20,719 Speaker 1: at the outlets. Um, it's just the course of doing business. 1153 01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:23,240 Speaker 1: And you know the outlets, the the acts would call 1154 01:09:23,280 --> 01:09:25,479 Speaker 1: you up with the manager would call you up and go, look, 1155 01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:30,800 Speaker 1: I know you've got this three percent charge for credit card. 1156 01:09:31,280 --> 01:09:34,280 Speaker 1: How do you feel about moving it to the public 1157 01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:40,040 Speaker 1: And I went, okay, you know, the level of innocence 1158 01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:44,160 Speaker 1: in all this is nonsense. So the promoters often took 1159 01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:46,120 Speaker 1: you in the building and you'd make the deal with 1160 01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:49,240 Speaker 1: the building. And sometimes the buildings let the promoter and 1161 01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:51,720 Speaker 1: on a fee, and sometimes they didn't. Most of the 1162 01:09:51,800 --> 01:09:56,320 Speaker 1: time they did. Um and I. And you know, you 1163 01:09:56,400 --> 01:09:59,520 Speaker 1: became the bank. You were the accounting system for everybody. 1164 01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:01,840 Speaker 1: And one of my favorite stories is I was talking 1165 01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:06,439 Speaker 1: to some building in the South and I'm talking to 1166 01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:09,000 Speaker 1: the guy and and it sounds like, you know, it 1167 01:10:09,160 --> 01:10:12,160 Speaker 1: sounds like a dog died. He said, ah, you know, 1168 01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:15,080 Speaker 1: this was when there were more municipal buildings than private buildings. 1169 01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:16,880 Speaker 1: And he goes, I gotta go tell the mayor I 1170 01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:19,439 Speaker 1: gave up the rent. I go, how much was I go? 1171 01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:21,519 Speaker 1: How much is the rent? He's just fifteen grand? I said, 1172 01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:23,320 Speaker 1: I'll give it to you. He said, how are you 1173 01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:25,040 Speaker 1: going to give it to me? He said, I said, 1174 01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:27,000 Speaker 1: I'm just there had three dollars to the service. George, 1175 01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:29,280 Speaker 1: I know what's going on. I'll give you your money. 1176 01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:31,439 Speaker 1: Whether it was fifteen or twenty grand I can't remember, 1177 01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:34,320 Speaker 1: and I'll keep the rest. He's a great idea. Then 1178 01:10:34,360 --> 01:10:36,920 Speaker 1: what would happen is the music writer would call him 1179 01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:39,000 Speaker 1: up after the show went on sound and go, how 1180 01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:41,040 Speaker 1: come the service chargers will hire it for this event? 1181 01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:44,240 Speaker 1: And the building manager go, gotta keep an eye on 1182 01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:47,360 Speaker 1: those people in Los Angeles. So you know it was 1183 01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:51,000 Speaker 1: Kabuki Theater, and Bob, you were around, you saw that. 1184 01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:53,719 Speaker 1: You know the criticism we got from new music writers. 1185 01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:57,040 Speaker 1: You know what the building managers said. But not one 1186 01:10:57,120 --> 01:10:59,880 Speaker 1: building did we lose. And no one connected the fact 1187 01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:02,920 Speaker 1: of saying, wait a minute, if they're doing all these 1188 01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:06,240 Speaker 1: things without all these people knowing, and they're complaining about it, 1189 01:11:06,360 --> 01:11:09,200 Speaker 1: why aren't they throwing them out or suing them? But 1190 01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:11,920 Speaker 1: everybody was part of the process, and I took the 1191 01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:16,680 Speaker 1: heat for everybody because look, the fact is, this is 1192 01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:19,639 Speaker 1: what I really believed, and it's my mantra from day one. 1193 01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:22,719 Speaker 1: No one pays more for a ticket than they want. 1194 01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:26,120 Speaker 1: And I want you to think about something that's different. 1195 01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:30,000 Speaker 1: I sometimes walk into arenas and I'd look up in 1196 01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:33,519 Speaker 1: the in the nosebleed sections less ten rows. Or you 1197 01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:37,719 Speaker 1: go into a stadium it's cold, people sitting there without shirts, 1198 01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:41,360 Speaker 1: it's raining. Why do people do that? Because it's emotion. 1199 01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:46,360 Speaker 1: You cannot regulate emotion. So think of this the Bolstead Act, 1200 01:11:46,439 --> 01:11:48,479 Speaker 1: which was for those of you who don't remember when 1201 01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:51,679 Speaker 1: prohibition that failed the war on drugs. In my mind, 1202 01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:55,160 Speaker 1: there's a failure gambling. You know now that you've got 1203 01:11:55,240 --> 01:11:57,800 Speaker 1: all these draft kings and everything else. That's side of 1204 01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:00,000 Speaker 1: leaves some of the balloon app But people will play 1205 01:12:00,240 --> 01:12:04,160 Speaker 1: numbers in the fifties because you can't stop people from 1206 01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:09,320 Speaker 1: doing emotional things. And he has the problem. Tickets are emotional. 1207 01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:13,200 Speaker 1: I need to be in the building. It has nothing 1208 01:12:13,240 --> 01:12:16,720 Speaker 1: to do with logic. And you can't regulate emotion. So 1209 01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:19,960 Speaker 1: here's what really happened and what destroyed the business market. 1210 01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:25,200 Speaker 1: I leave StubHub comes along the guys that wait, wait 1211 01:12:25,920 --> 01:12:29,200 Speaker 1: before you go to StubHub. When did the acts start 1212 01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:35,599 Speaker 1: getting pieces of the fees? Not while I was there? Okay, okay, stubbub. 1213 01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:40,439 Speaker 1: There was one that did that was the Rolling Stones. 1214 01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:44,760 Speaker 1: Michael Michael Cole and I made that deal, which is 1215 01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:47,920 Speaker 1: really funny because we make the deal was sitting at 1216 01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:51,000 Speaker 1: a restaurant. We don't have paper or a pen. I 1217 01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:54,080 Speaker 1: got a white napkin. We put a cross on the napkin, 1218 01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:56,720 Speaker 1: did service charges for the whole country, and settled a 1219 01:12:56,800 --> 01:12:59,320 Speaker 1: hundred million dollars on a napkin. None of that would 1220 01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:02,479 Speaker 1: happen today. There'd be four lawyers involved in every we 1221 01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:07,519 Speaker 1: shook hands. That was the relationship we had. So when 1222 01:13:07,560 --> 01:13:11,519 Speaker 1: I left, you know, we did all in ticketing in 1223 01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:13,880 Speaker 1: ninety four with a couple of acts and everything. We're 1224 01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:16,280 Speaker 1: hiding the service charges now All in Ticketing is the 1225 01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:20,639 Speaker 1: Flavord jure. It's hysterical to me because nothing changes. Let's 1226 01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:23,759 Speaker 1: be clearer though, for people that don't know the number 1227 01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:26,920 Speaker 1: one people who don't want all in Ticketing mean, it's 1228 01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:32,160 Speaker 1: not the ticketing company, it's the acts, correct, because they 1229 01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:35,400 Speaker 1: today everybody's got a piece of everybody, right, And the 1230 01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:37,280 Speaker 1: truth is that when you look at some of these 1231 01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:41,519 Speaker 1: crazy numbers, the acts ticketmasters, probably I would think this, 1232 01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:45,800 Speaker 1: and I'm not sure, but I would guess Ticketmaster getting 1233 01:13:45,800 --> 01:13:49,759 Speaker 1: a flat fee plus the credit card. Everything else above 1234 01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:53,040 Speaker 1: that flat fee is going somewhere else. And basically Ticketmasters 1235 01:13:53,080 --> 01:13:56,759 Speaker 1: a collection agency. That's what they are. So when the President, 1236 01:13:56,960 --> 01:13:59,200 Speaker 1: God bless them, says, you know, we're gonna look at 1237 01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:02,679 Speaker 1: ticketing and we're the airlines the hotels, well, every airline 1238 01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:06,160 Speaker 1: gets the ticketing fee. Every hotel gets a hundred percent 1239 01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:08,960 Speaker 1: of their ticketing fee. And by the way, when I 1240 01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:13,200 Speaker 1: did my um my appearance in front of Congress, John 1241 01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:16,120 Speaker 1: Conyor said, I went to Pine Knob and I paid 1242 01:14:16,160 --> 01:14:20,040 Speaker 1: a two dollars ticketing fee. And I don't know why 1243 01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:22,320 Speaker 1: I would pay a service charge if I go to 1244 01:14:22,360 --> 01:14:24,800 Speaker 1: the box office, So I send one of my people 1245 01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:27,759 Speaker 1: to find out what that's about. That was a facility fee, 1246 01:14:28,280 --> 01:14:30,960 Speaker 1: and the facility fee ticket mess that doesn't get but 1247 01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:33,719 Speaker 1: a facility fee was created to the act one share 1248 01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:37,840 Speaker 1: in that money, which you will know right. So the dynamic, 1249 01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:42,240 Speaker 1: the dynamic for all of this was some level of 1250 01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:47,759 Speaker 1: kabuki theater and some level of saying, listen, you need 1251 01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:51,960 Speaker 1: to understand because I remember when Bruce Springsteen paid five 1252 01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:57,120 Speaker 1: shows at the Sports Arena. The front rows, okay, the 1253 01:14:57,200 --> 01:15:00,120 Speaker 1: front rows eighteen dollars the least rows eighteen dollars, And 1254 01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:03,000 Speaker 1: they go, how come they're scalping? Going on? You go, hello, 1255 01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:08,320 Speaker 1: so so wait, we scrambled the rows out. There are 1256 01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:12,400 Speaker 1: things I never forget. We scrambled the rows. Did'd be 1257 01:15:12,439 --> 01:15:15,840 Speaker 1: these scalpers standing outside Music Plus and they you know, 1258 01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:18,280 Speaker 1: this young lady walks out and he says, where you're sitting? 1259 01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:21,760 Speaker 1: She's his second row, third night. He's just too how 1260 01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:24,120 Speaker 1: many tickets you haves for whatever? It was two or 1261 01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:29,360 Speaker 1: fifty dollars a ticket No. Five of ticket No. Seven, fifty, 1262 01:15:29,439 --> 01:15:32,439 Speaker 1: last and final offer. She took the money, then got 1263 01:15:32,439 --> 01:15:35,519 Speaker 1: back online and probably complained about my service charge. The 1264 01:15:35,600 --> 01:15:40,240 Speaker 1: point the point is you can't regulate this, and what 1265 01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:44,120 Speaker 1: StubHub came along, you had scalping laws. So I'll give 1266 01:15:44,120 --> 01:15:46,360 Speaker 1: you a couple of anecdotes, because I know you're like anecdotes. 1267 01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:50,280 Speaker 1: When I left, the Grateful Dead always had their tickets, 1268 01:15:50,320 --> 01:15:52,600 Speaker 1: and they had their fan club and so on. But 1269 01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:56,000 Speaker 1: the acts generally couldn't take their tickets, and when I left, 1270 01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:58,960 Speaker 1: they got threatened, and so they gave every act ten 1271 01:15:59,040 --> 01:16:02,400 Speaker 1: percent of their tickets for their fan club. Now Mary 1272 01:16:02,479 --> 01:16:04,719 Speaker 1: Jane or Jim Jones in any part of this country. 1273 01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:07,200 Speaker 1: Now have four tickets in the first ten rows, and 1274 01:16:07,240 --> 01:16:10,479 Speaker 1: stuff up comes along, peer to peer. They sell two 1275 01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:13,880 Speaker 1: tickets and pay for and pay for for. Then they go, wait, 1276 01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:16,479 Speaker 1: I can sell forth tickets and pay the rent. Now, 1277 01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:20,400 Speaker 1: who is the government gonna sue Mary Jane Jim John. 1278 01:16:20,439 --> 01:16:22,400 Speaker 1: They're not gonna do any of that. So all the 1279 01:16:22,439 --> 01:16:28,439 Speaker 1: scalping laws get eviscerated. And what happens is everybody says, 1280 01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:31,240 Speaker 1: I don't understand why tickets cost so much, because the 1281 01:16:31,280 --> 01:16:34,320 Speaker 1: public decides what they want. And here is the thing 1282 01:16:34,400 --> 01:16:38,799 Speaker 1: that's really important. And I use this as an example. 1283 01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:44,240 Speaker 1: A week before the Taylor Swift of situation, the Phillies 1284 01:16:44,600 --> 01:16:47,400 Speaker 1: are a month the Phillies were in the playoffs, and 1285 01:16:47,439 --> 01:16:50,439 Speaker 1: the Philadelphia papers are talking about the fact of isn't 1286 01:16:50,479 --> 01:16:54,639 Speaker 1: it wonderful that that the secondary market now is it's 1287 01:16:54,680 --> 01:16:56,759 Speaker 1: such a hot game. It's a thousand dollars a ticket, 1288 01:16:57,000 --> 01:17:01,280 Speaker 1: batch of honor, badge of honor. Is the Taylor Swift. 1289 01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:06,040 Speaker 1: The world is coming to an end. And by the way, also, 1290 01:17:06,160 --> 01:17:07,920 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna get into what the government can do 1291 01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:11,320 Speaker 1: and can't do. But they're not interested in sports tickets 1292 01:17:11,439 --> 01:17:14,639 Speaker 1: they're not interested in any other tickets but concert tickets. 1293 01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:17,280 Speaker 1: And from the days that I was doing this stuff, 1294 01:17:17,280 --> 01:17:19,880 Speaker 1: the concert ticket market is not a market that fits 1295 01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:23,800 Speaker 1: in the antitrust loss because in the end, what percentage 1296 01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:26,599 Speaker 1: of the concert market is of all the tickets sold 1297 01:17:26,600 --> 01:17:29,840 Speaker 1: in America very small. When you add up all the 1298 01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:33,240 Speaker 1: league's and everything else, you go, we're only doing music tickets, 1299 01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:38,000 Speaker 1: and only doing music tickets before acts. Hello, Garth Brooks 1300 01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:40,800 Speaker 1: took the took the wind out of the sales by 1301 01:17:40,840 --> 01:17:44,840 Speaker 1: playing more dates, and he and he released it. She 1302 01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:49,000 Speaker 1: knew what she was doing. It was a no lose situation. 1303 01:17:49,120 --> 01:17:51,640 Speaker 1: Anybody with a brain would not have put all that 1304 01:17:51,640 --> 01:17:54,880 Speaker 1: stuff on sale at one time. And and her view 1305 01:17:54,920 --> 01:17:57,559 Speaker 1: of the world was, look, if it blows up, I'll 1306 01:17:57,600 --> 01:18:00,280 Speaker 1: take credit and you'll will throw you under the US. 1307 01:18:00,479 --> 01:18:02,320 Speaker 1: And if it doesn't blow up, it comes out great. 1308 01:18:02,680 --> 01:18:05,120 Speaker 1: So when when I did a sing in an interview, 1309 01:18:05,160 --> 01:18:08,719 Speaker 1: I go, I don't understand. Ticketmaster took in five hundred 1310 01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:11,720 Speaker 1: million dollars in one day. How many companies can take 1311 01:18:11,760 --> 01:18:17,839 Speaker 1: in five million? Amazon, brokerage firms, banks, most companies, airlines can't, 1312 01:18:18,240 --> 01:18:21,519 Speaker 1: hotels can't, I said, And she's gonna make more than 1313 01:18:21,560 --> 01:18:24,040 Speaker 1: three hundred million dollars and everybody's walking around going it's 1314 01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:27,839 Speaker 1: a failure. The failure is they should have had circuit 1315 01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:32,160 Speaker 1: breakers that when you got that many calls or attempts, 1316 01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:35,439 Speaker 1: so that you just shut it off. The Martin Stock 1317 01:18:35,479 --> 01:18:39,960 Speaker 1: Market does it. Bank? You can't do a run on banks. 1318 01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:44,400 Speaker 1: But ticketing lives in this magical world where everybody thinks 1319 01:18:44,439 --> 01:18:47,559 Speaker 1: you're entitled to go to a concert. And by the way, 1320 01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:49,800 Speaker 1: which which is not a joke, this is not the 1321 01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:54,240 Speaker 1: first time this happened. When when the Spice Girls were 1322 01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:57,120 Speaker 1: at the height of their power, they did one show 1323 01:18:57,120 --> 01:19:02,479 Speaker 1: in Madison Square Garden. I old various government officials and said, 1324 01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:05,519 Speaker 1: please come down and watch the sale. Because of the 1325 01:19:05,560 --> 01:19:08,120 Speaker 1: twelve thousand tickets that we're gonna be made available, I 1326 01:19:08,160 --> 01:19:10,200 Speaker 1: think we had eight. So you got to try and 1327 01:19:10,280 --> 01:19:12,559 Speaker 1: not do a four minute sale because the world's gonna 1328 01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:14,760 Speaker 1: come to an end. So I go, can you come 1329 01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:16,599 Speaker 1: down and watch the sales so you can see what 1330 01:19:16,640 --> 01:19:18,360 Speaker 1: we do and make it a end. They go, when 1331 01:19:18,479 --> 01:19:21,280 Speaker 1: is this sale? They go Saturday? They go, I don't 1332 01:19:21,280 --> 01:19:25,439 Speaker 1: work on Saturday. So needless to say, on Tuesday, there's 1333 01:19:25,439 --> 01:19:28,360 Speaker 1: a big press conference, right of we're gonna find that 1334 01:19:28,439 --> 01:19:31,439 Speaker 1: way the tickets are because the kids are crying. Then 1335 01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:35,960 Speaker 1: there was a situation in eighty nine. I can't remember, well, 1336 01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:38,679 Speaker 1: the first Cubs night game is gonna go on sale, 1337 01:19:39,560 --> 01:19:42,160 Speaker 1: and we agree it will be phones only, two tickets 1338 01:19:42,160 --> 01:19:44,719 Speaker 1: of person. So I take my kids out for I scream, 1339 01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:47,639 Speaker 1: I live in California. I come back. Phone rings, guys 1340 01:19:47,680 --> 01:19:49,920 Speaker 1: on the phone high, this is somebody from Station one. 1341 01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:51,880 Speaker 1: I Q, how does it feel to take down the 1342 01:19:51,880 --> 01:19:54,479 Speaker 1: whole phone system in Chicago? I go, what are you 1343 01:19:54,520 --> 01:19:58,559 Speaker 1: talking about? Well, there's no one with thirty five million 1344 01:19:58,600 --> 01:20:00,519 Speaker 1: attempts in the first two minutes, and it blew up 1345 01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:05,479 Speaker 1: the phone system. You know, you gotta get smarter. You 1346 01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:09,080 Speaker 1: gotta get smarter about this stuff. But it feeds into 1347 01:20:09,160 --> 01:20:12,479 Speaker 1: the emotion instead of the logic, and we're in the 1348 01:20:12,840 --> 01:20:16,240 Speaker 1: we're in the emotion part, not the logic part. I mean, 1349 01:20:16,280 --> 01:20:19,200 Speaker 1: I just saw the government threatened Ticketmaster that if they 1350 01:20:19,240 --> 01:20:22,960 Speaker 1: screw up the Beyonce sale, hey go back and do 1351 01:20:23,080 --> 01:20:26,439 Speaker 1: mail order. You know, I mean, you you want to, 1352 01:20:26,560 --> 01:20:29,960 Speaker 1: It's crazy. Okay, let's go a little bit slower though. 1353 01:20:30,479 --> 01:20:33,719 Speaker 1: You're out, and then you get back in without box. 1354 01:20:33,800 --> 01:20:37,600 Speaker 1: Tell me that experience. Well, it was short mistake I 1355 01:20:37,720 --> 01:20:39,840 Speaker 1: made with that was I thought people would be more 1356 01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:44,240 Speaker 1: receptive doing white labels, and I was wrong. And ultimately, 1357 01:20:44,360 --> 01:20:46,599 Speaker 1: I mean I owned a piece which I sold back 1358 01:20:46,680 --> 01:20:51,879 Speaker 1: to a g um. It was an interesting dynamic. Uh, 1359 01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:54,519 Speaker 1: but I was wrong about that, and it's hard to 1360 01:20:54,520 --> 01:21:02,560 Speaker 1: go back home again. Um. The people, Well, what Ticketmaster 1361 01:21:02,680 --> 01:21:05,240 Speaker 1: was allowing people to do is they could put their 1362 01:21:05,320 --> 01:21:07,680 Speaker 1: name and they could do the things they needed. And 1363 01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:11,120 Speaker 1: I misread the situation. So that lasted about a year 1364 01:21:11,800 --> 01:21:14,280 Speaker 1: and then we all agreed that there was a smart 1365 01:21:14,320 --> 01:21:17,360 Speaker 1: thing to do and just stop it. And basically, since 1366 01:21:17,400 --> 01:21:21,920 Speaker 1: a g has carried such a big weight, um, it's 1367 01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:24,280 Speaker 1: really the deal never should have been done. It was 1368 01:21:24,360 --> 01:21:28,880 Speaker 1: my fault on a certain level. And and basically they're 1369 01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:31,760 Speaker 1: in control of their own ticketing now, which works for them, 1370 01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:36,240 Speaker 1: and they're doing fairly well. Okay, let's talk about Ticketmaster today. 1371 01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:39,800 Speaker 1: You haven't involved for the neccess of twenty years. What 1372 01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:43,960 Speaker 1: is different to your knowledge about the system today from 1373 01:21:43,960 --> 01:21:47,840 Speaker 1: when you ran it. Well, I think the system works, 1374 01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:51,080 Speaker 1: It's evolved pretty well. I think part of the problem 1375 01:21:51,280 --> 01:21:56,920 Speaker 1: is that the company on some levels become the phone company. 1376 01:21:57,240 --> 01:21:59,680 Speaker 1: I don't think they've done a good job explaining what 1377 01:21:59,720 --> 01:22:03,080 Speaker 1: they do and how they do it. And I think 1378 01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:06,200 Speaker 1: some of the combination. You know, you can read it 1379 01:22:06,240 --> 01:22:08,200 Speaker 1: any way you want. I think it's pretty efficient. I 1380 01:22:08,200 --> 01:22:12,759 Speaker 1: think most clients are pretty happy with it. Um it's thankless. 1381 01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:19,080 Speaker 1: Every arena manager knows that ticketing is thankless. So the 1382 01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:21,920 Speaker 1: thing I find most humorous today is there are five 1383 01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:24,760 Speaker 1: or six people involved in the solar system. You have 1384 01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:29,120 Speaker 1: the active managers, their agents. You have the arena, right, 1385 01:22:29,600 --> 01:22:33,240 Speaker 1: so that's four or five people, or the stadium and 1386 01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:37,479 Speaker 1: the promoter. And somehow, no matter what happens when all 1387 01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:41,439 Speaker 1: this stuff gets rid, it's only Ticketmaster's fault. Like you 1388 01:22:41,479 --> 01:22:47,000 Speaker 1: know this, this big overarching company controls everything, which is absurd, 1389 01:22:47,680 --> 01:22:50,920 Speaker 1: and and I think they've done a good job taking it. 1390 01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:54,880 Speaker 1: I think you know what's what's amazing to me is 1391 01:22:54,920 --> 01:22:57,320 Speaker 1: I've been gone twenty five years and people still come back. 1392 01:22:57,360 --> 01:23:01,840 Speaker 1: And you said, Mr Ticketmaster, it's spent faceless for years, 1393 01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:04,840 Speaker 1: and so people go back to the people who found it. 1394 01:23:05,200 --> 01:23:07,439 Speaker 1: And I would tell you this. A lot of people 1395 01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:11,120 Speaker 1: told me at the beginning that ticketing wasn't in business, 1396 01:23:11,240 --> 01:23:13,800 Speaker 1: and I thought they were crazy. I thought there was 1397 01:23:13,920 --> 01:23:19,000 Speaker 1: stone cold crazy. So the way that ticket masters run today, 1398 01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:22,519 Speaker 1: and to the degree you study it, do you believe 1399 01:23:23,320 --> 01:23:28,840 Speaker 1: that the fees, although they're negotiated, forget the fact that 1400 01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:32,360 Speaker 1: they're not included, do you find them more exorbitant than 1401 01:23:32,400 --> 01:23:40,439 Speaker 1: when you were involved? That's natural evolution. Everything close more. Okay, 1402 01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:46,800 Speaker 1: let's talk specifically about what went down. So we know 1403 01:23:47,000 --> 01:23:50,840 Speaker 1: that Live Nation was it was allowed to merge with 1404 01:23:50,960 --> 01:23:55,120 Speaker 1: ticket Masters. That's in the rear view mirror. You're an attorney, 1405 01:23:55,160 --> 01:24:02,040 Speaker 1: so you understand these issues. The issue reformed. Okay, so 1406 01:24:02,040 --> 01:24:08,760 Speaker 1: so am I? Uh? But do you believe this is 1407 01:24:08,840 --> 01:24:11,559 Speaker 1: just us talking? You know, because it doesn't hold any weight. 1408 01:24:12,200 --> 01:24:15,720 Speaker 1: Do you believe the ticket Master is a monopoly? No, 1409 01:24:16,720 --> 01:24:21,960 Speaker 1: so just explain why. Look if Ticketmaster didn't exist and 1410 01:24:22,040 --> 01:24:24,439 Speaker 1: we called it Bob lefts, it's tickets they hey, you too? 1411 01:24:24,479 --> 01:24:28,800 Speaker 1: After a year, the solar system is you're set up 1412 01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:32,240 Speaker 1: to be the strong man. It's the way the word 1413 01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:35,000 Speaker 1: the world works. And what people can't get through their 1414 01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:37,840 Speaker 1: head is this. It doesn't make a difference how many 1415 01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:40,200 Speaker 1: ticket companies are. It makes a difference how many tickets 1416 01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:42,799 Speaker 1: you have and what the demand is. It's a supply 1417 01:24:42,880 --> 01:24:47,360 Speaker 1: and demand curve, and so if you had forty ticket companies, 1418 01:24:47,479 --> 01:24:49,680 Speaker 1: none of these prices would be any different at the 1419 01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:55,880 Speaker 1: beginning because it's the demand. And ultimately, look, I'm not 1420 01:24:55,920 --> 01:24:59,400 Speaker 1: going to appine on whether because I don't know what 1421 01:24:59,479 --> 01:25:01,880 Speaker 1: Live Nation it's done for the last ten years, that 1422 01:25:01,920 --> 01:25:05,439 Speaker 1: would make them different when both companies, when when that 1423 01:25:05,520 --> 01:25:09,280 Speaker 1: merger was allowed, both companies stocks were in the crapper. 1424 01:25:09,479 --> 01:25:12,400 Speaker 1: They were both about a buck or two bucks. Nobody 1425 01:25:12,520 --> 01:25:16,559 Speaker 1: saw them as a goliath, and the world evolved, you know, 1426 01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:19,960 Speaker 1: so you gotta put on the glasses to see it 1427 01:25:20,040 --> 01:25:23,679 Speaker 1: the way it is today. But having said that, which 1428 01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:28,800 Speaker 1: is not a joke, I don't know exactly. I don't 1429 01:25:28,800 --> 01:25:30,920 Speaker 1: know whether you can call him. I mean they used 1430 01:25:30,920 --> 01:25:34,559 Speaker 1: to call Ticketmaster monopoly by itself without Live Nation. I mean, 1431 01:25:34,600 --> 01:25:36,720 Speaker 1: how many times did I hear that? I, Bob, as 1432 01:25:36,720 --> 01:25:38,680 Speaker 1: I recall it. Maybe in the nineties you might have 1433 01:25:38,720 --> 01:25:42,320 Speaker 1: said that too about us. So you know, the truth 1434 01:25:42,479 --> 01:25:46,519 Speaker 1: is that I don't know the answer to that question 1435 01:25:46,560 --> 01:25:49,680 Speaker 1: from a legal perspective, because part of the problem that 1436 01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:52,880 Speaker 1: you have is let's talk about let me talk about 1437 01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:57,160 Speaker 1: Ticketmaster and monopolies, because that I can talk about you 1438 01:25:57,240 --> 01:26:01,880 Speaker 1: have an exclusive. The problem is there's no guarantee from 1439 01:26:01,920 --> 01:26:04,840 Speaker 1: the venue how many tickets you get, No guarantee in 1440 01:26:04,840 --> 01:26:07,839 Speaker 1: the number of shows, no guarantee of the number of tickets, 1441 01:26:08,200 --> 01:26:11,960 Speaker 1: no guarantee about anything. But everybody was shocked about that. 1442 01:26:12,920 --> 01:26:14,599 Speaker 1: So they go, well, how do you know you're gonna 1443 01:26:14,640 --> 01:26:17,559 Speaker 1: get tickets? You go because they got death service. Okay, 1444 01:26:17,760 --> 01:26:19,719 Speaker 1: so they gotta pay. We think they're gonna have shows. 1445 01:26:20,360 --> 01:26:23,320 Speaker 1: But there isn't one contract that I wrote. And I 1446 01:26:23,360 --> 01:26:27,120 Speaker 1: can't tell you whether that's changed, but there wasn't one 1447 01:26:27,200 --> 01:26:32,440 Speaker 1: contract that I wrote that anywhere was there a guarantee 1448 01:26:32,479 --> 01:26:37,519 Speaker 1: of the number of shows, number of tickets, um, number 1449 01:26:37,520 --> 01:26:40,920 Speaker 1: of events. What you did is you took a statistical 1450 01:26:40,960 --> 01:26:45,120 Speaker 1: analysis of the building the last five years and kind 1451 01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:47,880 Speaker 1: of plugged it in and came up with a model. 1452 01:26:49,160 --> 01:26:54,120 Speaker 1: And I remember one of the great funny lines of life, 1453 01:26:54,160 --> 01:26:57,000 Speaker 1: which is sort of a digression, but it's sets the point. 1454 01:26:57,240 --> 01:26:59,479 Speaker 1: There was a big stadium show and the Attorney General 1455 01:26:59,520 --> 01:27:03,439 Speaker 1: of that subpoena in US and they said, we want 1456 01:27:03,439 --> 01:27:05,280 Speaker 1: a list of all the people who bought the tickets. 1457 01:27:05,800 --> 01:27:09,040 Speaker 1: So I go to that we I went to that meeting, 1458 01:27:10,160 --> 01:27:11,920 Speaker 1: and we had given them the number of the people 1459 01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:14,240 Speaker 1: who bought tickets by phone, but not at the outlets. 1460 01:27:15,160 --> 01:27:18,320 Speaker 1: And the woman says, why don't we have the names 1461 01:27:18,320 --> 01:27:20,200 Speaker 1: of the people bought tickets and at the outlets? And 1462 01:27:20,240 --> 01:27:25,360 Speaker 1: I went, because we don't live in Russia. But but 1463 01:27:25,360 --> 01:27:28,720 Speaker 1: but here's my question, why are you calling me? Why 1464 01:27:28,720 --> 01:27:31,360 Speaker 1: don't you call the broker's And she went, we don't 1465 01:27:31,400 --> 01:27:34,000 Speaker 1: know how to find them. I said, you have an assistant, 1466 01:27:34,120 --> 01:27:36,799 Speaker 1: Go yeah, I said, bring me the Yellow Pages, forty 1467 01:27:36,840 --> 01:27:41,160 Speaker 1: pages of brokers. I go, Look, I'm tired of always 1468 01:27:41,160 --> 01:27:44,759 Speaker 1: been the whipping boy for this business. Here's my private 1469 01:27:44,760 --> 01:27:47,720 Speaker 1: phone number in the office. Here's the name of my assistant. 1470 01:27:48,200 --> 01:27:51,160 Speaker 1: You have any questions, you call us. I am not 1471 01:27:51,280 --> 01:27:54,800 Speaker 1: responsible for where these tickets go. I try as much 1472 01:27:54,880 --> 01:27:58,200 Speaker 1: as I can. And we went through crossing out same address, 1473 01:27:58,720 --> 01:28:01,880 Speaker 1: credit card numbers that you multiple events. We did about 1474 01:28:01,880 --> 01:28:04,920 Speaker 1: ten things that we could do. But if, but if 1475 01:28:04,960 --> 01:28:07,400 Speaker 1: a broker has got forty different credit cards with forty 1476 01:28:07,400 --> 01:28:09,439 Speaker 1: different addresses, how the hell are we gonna know what 1477 01:28:09,560 --> 01:28:14,720 Speaker 1: that is? And to me, at the way, the way 1478 01:28:14,760 --> 01:28:18,719 Speaker 1: I see it is, nobody wants to know the truth 1479 01:28:18,840 --> 01:28:21,799 Speaker 1: because the narrative doesn't the truth doesn't fit the narrative 1480 01:28:22,920 --> 01:28:27,920 Speaker 1: well articulated, but just speculating. Because you have more background 1481 01:28:27,920 --> 01:28:32,639 Speaker 1: in this than almost anybody. Some people say, by virtue 1482 01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:39,120 Speaker 1: of their market share, ticket Masters inherently a monopoly. Now 1483 01:28:39,479 --> 01:28:44,400 Speaker 1: what I tell these people is there are antitrust laws. 1484 01:28:44,479 --> 01:28:48,840 Speaker 1: We presently have an FTC that is very aggressive. But 1485 01:28:49,520 --> 01:28:53,519 Speaker 1: if we determine that it is a monopoly, what is 1486 01:28:53,600 --> 01:28:57,800 Speaker 1: the sou They has to have a remedy, and the 1487 01:28:57,880 --> 01:29:01,679 Speaker 1: remedy is going to be worse. I haven't to agree 1488 01:29:01,720 --> 01:29:07,400 Speaker 1: with you. The reality is this, if they split it up, 1489 01:29:09,000 --> 01:29:11,000 Speaker 1: which I don't think they can't. I mean they have 1490 01:29:11,080 --> 01:29:16,360 Speaker 1: that they can do whatever they want. Whoever replaced this 1491 01:29:16,439 --> 01:29:18,840 Speaker 1: ticket mask is gonna have the same issue after two years. 1492 01:29:20,040 --> 01:29:25,960 Speaker 1: You know when when I'm very circumspect about my meeting 1493 01:29:26,000 --> 01:29:28,519 Speaker 1: with the government, and if you and I know you 1494 01:29:28,600 --> 01:29:31,519 Speaker 1: know this, You've never seen anything written by those meetings 1495 01:29:32,479 --> 01:29:35,760 Speaker 1: because I just say the system worked, but there are 1496 01:29:35,840 --> 01:29:39,960 Speaker 1: a few things I can share. And then and one 1497 01:29:39,960 --> 01:29:42,479 Speaker 1: of the questions is why can't they be multiple ticket 1498 01:29:42,479 --> 01:29:45,960 Speaker 1: companies in the building? And I said, how many operating 1499 01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:48,679 Speaker 1: systems do you have in your computer? And they said one? 1500 01:29:49,320 --> 01:29:52,519 Speaker 1: And I go, how many inventory control systems? Are there 1501 01:29:52,520 --> 01:29:55,479 Speaker 1: in a supermarket one and I go, why is this 1502 01:29:55,560 --> 01:29:58,120 Speaker 1: different than an inventory control system? That's all it is. 1503 01:29:58,760 --> 01:30:03,040 Speaker 1: And the thing you'll eLearn is this Ticketmaster is no 1504 01:30:03,160 --> 01:30:06,360 Speaker 1: different than Time Life, the eight number, except if you 1505 01:30:06,400 --> 01:30:10,320 Speaker 1: touch entertainment, you are entertainment. And the truth of the 1506 01:30:10,360 --> 01:30:16,800 Speaker 1: matter is if people didn't pay and there you well 1507 01:30:16,920 --> 01:30:21,479 Speaker 1: you was, you was know as much as anybody more. 1508 01:30:21,560 --> 01:30:25,640 Speaker 1: Events don't sell out. There's always tickets available. There are 1509 01:30:25,680 --> 01:30:28,320 Speaker 1: always tickets that show up twenty four or forty eight 1510 01:30:28,320 --> 01:30:32,840 Speaker 1: hours because nobody knows the configuration of the stage. It's 1511 01:30:32,880 --> 01:30:35,799 Speaker 1: just that, because all of this is controlled by emotion 1512 01:30:35,880 --> 01:30:40,960 Speaker 1: instead of logic. Right, A suite at the Super Bowl 1513 01:30:41,040 --> 01:30:43,040 Speaker 1: last year in l A went for two million dollars. 1514 01:30:43,200 --> 01:30:48,840 Speaker 1: I didn't hear anybody complaining, right, I don't understand. Garth 1515 01:30:48,880 --> 01:30:53,840 Speaker 1: Brooks played more shows Broadway. This is interesting because of 1516 01:30:53,920 --> 01:30:56,439 Speaker 1: friends of mine. I still go to Broadway shows. And 1517 01:30:56,560 --> 01:30:59,120 Speaker 1: you know, you know enough of the stories about me 1518 01:30:59,200 --> 01:31:01,720 Speaker 1: that I really went of concerts. And when I helped 1519 01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:03,719 Speaker 1: my wife get tickets, I told her I will help 1520 01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:06,280 Speaker 1: me get tickets. But I don't go. You know, It's 1521 01:31:06,360 --> 01:31:09,519 Speaker 1: like that's not my jones, it's not what I you know, 1522 01:31:11,560 --> 01:31:16,080 Speaker 1: But the reality is people sit in the last ten 1523 01:31:16,200 --> 01:31:18,280 Speaker 1: rows because of the need to be in the building 1524 01:31:20,200 --> 01:31:23,960 Speaker 1: service charges. There is a reflection of what people think 1525 01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:27,800 Speaker 1: a fair market is. No more, no less. You don't 1526 01:31:27,800 --> 01:31:29,960 Speaker 1: want to go, don't pay it. And here's the thing 1527 01:31:30,000 --> 01:31:33,720 Speaker 1: that was shocking to me. About ten years ago, when 1528 01:31:33,720 --> 01:31:37,280 Speaker 1: the Rolling Stones were at the Hollywood Bowl, I got 1529 01:31:37,280 --> 01:31:41,000 Speaker 1: a call. I still get calls some people who still 1530 01:31:41,040 --> 01:31:42,840 Speaker 1: think I have something to do with the company, which 1531 01:31:43,000 --> 01:31:48,519 Speaker 1: I find frightening. Um they said, did you see what 1532 01:31:48,560 --> 01:31:51,000 Speaker 1: the Rolling Stone? This is the Wilshire Journal. Did you 1533 01:31:51,040 --> 01:31:55,559 Speaker 1: see what the Rolling what the Rolling Stones charged at 1534 01:31:57,439 --> 01:32:01,360 Speaker 1: the Hollywood Ball? I went, yeahs the ticket? Well didn't 1535 01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:06,479 Speaker 1: you think that was excessive? I said, well we went. 1536 01:32:06,640 --> 01:32:08,439 Speaker 1: I mean I bought two tickets. It was what it 1537 01:32:08,520 --> 01:32:10,400 Speaker 1: cost and my wife wanted to go, so we went. 1538 01:32:10,520 --> 01:32:15,759 Speaker 1: But here's my question. Assume that you're not a trust 1539 01:32:15,760 --> 01:32:19,360 Speaker 1: fund baby and assumed that working for the journal provides 1540 01:32:19,360 --> 01:32:23,160 Speaker 1: your income. When you go by a Lamborghini showroom, do 1541 01:32:23,160 --> 01:32:24,519 Speaker 1: you have the need to throw a brick through a 1542 01:32:24,560 --> 01:32:29,960 Speaker 1: window because you can't afford it? What's the difference? Where 1543 01:32:30,160 --> 01:32:34,640 Speaker 1: is it written that popular music requires everybody have a 1544 01:32:34,720 --> 01:32:37,800 Speaker 1: right to go see it. Now, I know that's heresy. 1545 01:32:37,960 --> 01:32:41,200 Speaker 1: Go to the clubs, go go to the small venues. 1546 01:32:41,720 --> 01:32:47,320 Speaker 1: Guess what. Why is an artist not a brand? Why 1547 01:32:47,439 --> 01:32:49,640 Speaker 1: is an artist not worth the same thing as a 1548 01:32:49,680 --> 01:32:51,879 Speaker 1: floor seat at a Laker or a Nick or Chicago 1549 01:32:51,920 --> 01:32:55,599 Speaker 1: Bulls game. If they choose, that's what they're worth. That's 1550 01:32:55,600 --> 01:33:00,000 Speaker 1: what the cost is. But people lose their mind because 1551 01:33:00,000 --> 01:33:03,679 Speaker 1: it's it's it's music. No one loses their mind in sports. 1552 01:33:04,880 --> 01:33:07,120 Speaker 1: No one loses their mind in boxing. By the way, 1553 01:33:07,160 --> 01:33:10,320 Speaker 1: I heard a story the two front row seats for boxing, 1554 01:33:11,360 --> 01:33:13,760 Speaker 1: one for half a million dollars each for some fight. 1555 01:33:15,000 --> 01:33:18,839 Speaker 1: No one's forcing anybody to pay these prices, right, And 1556 01:33:18,840 --> 01:33:20,720 Speaker 1: and the great thing is you don't have to go. 1557 01:33:21,160 --> 01:33:25,160 Speaker 1: And and if if you don't go, and you're not selling, 1558 01:33:25,280 --> 01:33:27,360 Speaker 1: I mean, no one's gonna pay two dollars to hear 1559 01:33:27,400 --> 01:33:29,519 Speaker 1: you and I sing you go Bob and Fred the 1560 01:33:29,560 --> 01:33:32,200 Speaker 1: Great duet when you pay two dollars to see it, No, 1561 01:33:32,439 --> 01:33:38,479 Speaker 1: probably not so so the dynamic. Look. I don't want 1562 01:33:38,479 --> 01:33:40,599 Speaker 1: to say it's all bullshit because that will only make 1563 01:33:40,640 --> 01:33:44,320 Speaker 1: everybody crazier. But the truth is, wake up in the morning. 1564 01:33:45,240 --> 01:33:47,240 Speaker 1: No one pays more for a ticket than they want. 1565 01:33:47,880 --> 01:33:50,200 Speaker 1: If an artist is like Garth Brooks, they're gonna do 1566 01:33:50,280 --> 01:33:53,120 Speaker 1: everything they can to play as many shows as they 1567 01:33:53,160 --> 01:33:55,960 Speaker 1: can to take care of their people. How come that works? 1568 01:33:57,040 --> 01:34:00,240 Speaker 1: Pearl Jam did this whole thing with with certain into 1569 01:34:00,280 --> 01:34:03,560 Speaker 1: seats you know where your name is on it, and 1570 01:34:03,840 --> 01:34:05,760 Speaker 1: and people did that. You know what. My view of 1571 01:34:05,800 --> 01:34:07,439 Speaker 1: all this is, this is where I get in trouble. 1572 01:34:08,280 --> 01:34:13,640 Speaker 1: You know, you sell it, it's gone, Stop worrying about it, right, 1573 01:34:14,040 --> 01:34:16,720 Speaker 1: price it the way you want. And the answer is 1574 01:34:16,760 --> 01:34:20,960 Speaker 1: I remember we were doing golden circles and I pushed 1575 01:34:21,000 --> 01:34:25,320 Speaker 1: for that and someone said to me, well, how do 1576 01:34:25,360 --> 01:34:29,519 Speaker 1: you know when the golden circle ends? And I said, look, 1577 01:34:30,400 --> 01:34:35,680 Speaker 1: roe A is a hundred dollars, Rosie is fifty. So 1578 01:34:35,720 --> 01:34:38,479 Speaker 1: they said, well, where does the golden circle end? I said, 1579 01:34:38,479 --> 01:34:42,320 Speaker 1: when you right out of people buying. If it goes 1580 01:34:42,360 --> 01:34:46,800 Speaker 1: to Rosie, that's the golden circle. Here go. What if 1581 01:34:46,800 --> 01:34:49,200 Speaker 1: it stops at roe M I said, then you move 1582 01:34:49,439 --> 01:34:53,000 Speaker 1: Rosie up and moved them back until they meet, and 1583 01:34:53,040 --> 01:34:54,880 Speaker 1: they go, can you do that? And I went, it's 1584 01:34:54,880 --> 01:35:01,559 Speaker 1: a computer. I mean. The point is, if I did anything, 1585 01:35:02,920 --> 01:35:06,720 Speaker 1: I made this a business, and it was always a 1586 01:35:06,760 --> 01:35:16,479 Speaker 1: business because the scalpers knew it was a business. What's 1587 01:35:16,520 --> 01:35:21,479 Speaker 1: your view on scalpers? Some provide a service, some don't. 1588 01:35:23,080 --> 01:35:26,880 Speaker 1: They exist because there are always people with too much 1589 01:35:26,920 --> 01:35:30,280 Speaker 1: money who don't pay attention to when tickets go on sale, 1590 01:35:30,280 --> 01:35:34,840 Speaker 1: and we'll pay whatever the market will bear. UM. I 1591 01:35:34,880 --> 01:35:38,439 Speaker 1: think stuff Hub is fine. I think the secondary market 1592 01:35:38,600 --> 01:35:40,920 Speaker 1: is fine because in the end, no one's forced to 1593 01:35:40,960 --> 01:35:45,200 Speaker 1: pay that. Um. It's driven by emotion. It's clearly better 1594 01:35:45,200 --> 01:35:47,839 Speaker 1: than it used to be because I think the acts. 1595 01:35:48,320 --> 01:35:50,800 Speaker 1: Let's put it like this, there was some acts that 1596 01:35:50,960 --> 01:35:53,400 Speaker 1: I knew in the nineties where you could get pneumonia 1597 01:35:53,479 --> 01:35:56,479 Speaker 1: from the from the draft created by the tickets going 1598 01:35:56,479 --> 01:36:01,879 Speaker 1: out the side. Now you know, it's it's more of 1599 01:36:01,640 --> 01:36:04,639 Speaker 1: a business, and I don't judge the morality of it. 1600 01:36:05,000 --> 01:36:08,040 Speaker 1: I never made money from it. And Ticketmaster when I 1601 01:36:08,120 --> 01:36:10,920 Speaker 1: ran it was against scalping and we did what was 1602 01:36:10,960 --> 01:36:14,280 Speaker 1: necessary to protect it. But at the end of the day, 1603 01:36:16,120 --> 01:36:21,280 Speaker 1: you know, going a restaurant today, everything course more. What 1604 01:36:21,439 --> 01:36:23,559 Speaker 1: used to be X is now X plus Y. Go 1605 01:36:23,600 --> 01:36:27,240 Speaker 1: to a hotel over Chris, you know makes me crazy. 1606 01:36:27,320 --> 01:36:30,600 Speaker 1: People go out to dinner, it's a hundred dollars, but 1607 01:36:30,720 --> 01:36:35,280 Speaker 1: the ticket should only be seventy. Well, but here's the point. 1608 01:36:35,640 --> 01:36:37,879 Speaker 1: I used to have this argument. Why is Bruce Springsteen 1609 01:36:37,960 --> 01:36:41,439 Speaker 1: less than the four seats of the Lakers. He puts 1610 01:36:41,479 --> 01:36:44,320 Speaker 1: on a three hour show. He leaves himself out there 1611 01:36:44,360 --> 01:36:47,439 Speaker 1: for the fans. When he did Broadway at seven fifty 1612 01:36:47,439 --> 01:36:52,519 Speaker 1: dollars a ticket, you know, that was very limited, but 1613 01:36:52,640 --> 01:36:55,439 Speaker 1: he did it. I know the deal he had, but 1614 01:36:55,520 --> 01:36:58,880 Speaker 1: good for him. And you know, in the last show 1615 01:36:59,280 --> 01:37:01,439 Speaker 1: he talked about the fact that he charged more and 1616 01:37:01,520 --> 01:37:04,320 Speaker 1: everybody went nuts, but there was still half the tickets 1617 01:37:04,320 --> 01:37:06,880 Speaker 1: at popular prices. They just moved the seats to where 1618 01:37:06,880 --> 01:37:11,880 Speaker 1: they were. And here's the problem. You know this, you 1619 01:37:12,000 --> 01:37:15,760 Speaker 1: can't argue with a lack of logic because it's all 1620 01:37:15,880 --> 01:37:21,479 Speaker 1: driven by emotion. When emotion is involved, people kill people 1621 01:37:21,640 --> 01:37:26,880 Speaker 1: over love, people kill people over you know, over stupid things. 1622 01:37:26,920 --> 01:37:31,639 Speaker 1: Where emotion gets involved. This is just tickets. It's just tickets. 1623 01:37:31,880 --> 01:37:34,200 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I know that that artist is 1624 01:37:34,240 --> 01:37:36,880 Speaker 1: a good my homies, Hey ticketmaster, Well, really that's the 1625 01:37:36,880 --> 01:37:40,800 Speaker 1: best song you can write for real. I'm sure I'll 1626 01:37:40,800 --> 01:37:42,559 Speaker 1: get a lot of ugly mail like that. Let me 1627 01:37:42,640 --> 01:37:44,040 Speaker 1: let me share this with you, because this is a 1628 01:37:44,080 --> 01:37:47,320 Speaker 1: great story. I was living in Beverly Hills in those days, 1629 01:37:47,560 --> 01:37:51,360 Speaker 1: and a woman writes me a four page single space letter. 1630 01:37:52,320 --> 01:37:55,559 Speaker 1: She lives in San Diego. She bought foot tickets to 1631 01:37:55,600 --> 01:37:59,519 Speaker 1: the Forum. She cannot understand why she paid sixteen dollars 1632 01:37:59,560 --> 01:38:02,120 Speaker 1: four dollars a ticket when all it did was come 1633 01:38:02,120 --> 01:38:05,840 Speaker 1: out of the machine. Now, one of the things I 1634 01:38:05,920 --> 01:38:08,320 Speaker 1: used to do was called the ten worth letters I 1635 01:38:08,360 --> 01:38:11,840 Speaker 1: get every month. And since she wrote me at home, 1636 01:38:11,880 --> 01:38:13,559 Speaker 1: I thought I could call her on Sunday. What the 1637 01:38:13,560 --> 01:38:15,760 Speaker 1: hell you know? Like, why not? Right? So I got 1638 01:38:15,840 --> 01:38:18,680 Speaker 1: Mrs Jones, I got your letter. You really should not 1639 01:38:18,760 --> 01:38:22,160 Speaker 1: be this upset. I really feel badly. What I would 1640 01:38:22,160 --> 01:38:24,160 Speaker 1: like you to do. What I'm gonna do tomorrow when 1641 01:38:24,160 --> 01:38:25,880 Speaker 1: I go in the office is I'm going to send 1642 01:38:25,880 --> 01:38:31,400 Speaker 1: you your sixteen dollars back. She says, that's really nice 1643 01:38:31,400 --> 01:38:34,080 Speaker 1: of you. That's four page single space. I didn't kill 1644 01:38:34,120 --> 01:38:36,360 Speaker 1: little Lindbergh, baby, I didn't blow up to Hindenburg, and 1645 01:38:36,360 --> 01:38:38,960 Speaker 1: I'm sure I didn't think the Titanic. But I said, 1646 01:38:39,040 --> 01:38:41,800 Speaker 1: I need you to do one thing for me. She says, 1647 01:38:41,840 --> 01:38:45,400 Speaker 1: what's that? I said, never use my service again. And 1648 01:38:45,439 --> 01:38:48,880 Speaker 1: if you drive to the Forum, there's no service charge, 1649 01:38:50,000 --> 01:38:52,479 Speaker 1: and she went, but that's not convenient and they'll take 1650 01:38:52,520 --> 01:38:56,160 Speaker 1: a lot of time. And I went, uh huh, and 1651 01:38:56,200 --> 01:39:00,400 Speaker 1: it was like the epiphany hitter, and she went, never mind, Sorry, 1652 01:39:00,400 --> 01:39:03,200 Speaker 1: I sorry, I wrote, sorry to forget it. Don't give 1653 01:39:03,240 --> 01:39:06,800 Speaker 1: me back my money. I'm really sorry. I never thought 1654 01:39:06,840 --> 01:39:09,400 Speaker 1: of it like that. Well, nobody thinks a bit like that. 1655 01:39:10,040 --> 01:39:12,400 Speaker 1: They go, it just comes out of the machine. Well, 1656 01:39:12,400 --> 01:39:15,720 Speaker 1: who does the money, who does the audits, who does 1657 01:39:15,760 --> 01:39:19,240 Speaker 1: the season tickets, the single tickets, who provides the equipment, 1658 01:39:19,360 --> 01:39:22,080 Speaker 1: who does the software program? There's like a hundred things 1659 01:39:22,160 --> 01:39:25,200 Speaker 1: that the public NEBI sees. But you know what they 1660 01:39:25,200 --> 01:39:27,400 Speaker 1: do see They see the name on it. And and 1661 01:39:27,439 --> 01:39:31,760 Speaker 1: I know this for a fact. Um near the end 1662 01:39:31,800 --> 01:39:34,320 Speaker 1: of running Ticketmaster, I wound up having a meeting with 1663 01:39:34,360 --> 01:39:38,120 Speaker 1: the l A. Times, and I wound up with the publisher, 1664 01:39:38,240 --> 01:39:41,920 Speaker 1: the editor and the head of calendar. There's a guy 1665 01:39:41,960 --> 01:39:43,800 Speaker 1: named John Lindsay. I don't know if you ever came 1666 01:39:43,840 --> 01:39:47,160 Speaker 1: across him, and you know, okay, he was the head 1667 01:39:47,200 --> 01:39:50,880 Speaker 1: of Callen. So basically, I said, you guys have had 1668 01:39:50,920 --> 01:39:52,760 Speaker 1: a heart on from us from the beginning, and I 1669 01:39:52,800 --> 01:39:55,160 Speaker 1: don't get it. And I said, John, you won't even 1670 01:39:55,200 --> 01:39:57,400 Speaker 1: sit in a room with me and meet tell me 1671 01:39:57,439 --> 01:40:00,880 Speaker 1: why you hate my company. I just want to know. 1672 01:40:01,320 --> 01:40:04,040 Speaker 1: And you know, the publishers said, is he is he 1673 01:40:04,160 --> 01:40:07,439 Speaker 1: making this up in one of the vice Uh ed, 1674 01:40:07,520 --> 01:40:10,439 Speaker 1: it is, no read the stuff we wrote. It's true. 1675 01:40:10,920 --> 01:40:14,400 Speaker 1: And Lindsey looked at me and he said, you charge 1676 01:40:14,400 --> 01:40:19,280 Speaker 1: a service charge. I said, that's the reason for all 1677 01:40:19,360 --> 01:40:23,040 Speaker 1: the negative you charge for ads. Tell me how I 1678 01:40:23,120 --> 01:40:26,040 Speaker 1: make money if I don't charge a service charge? Where 1679 01:40:26,120 --> 01:40:28,840 Speaker 1: is my revenue? How do I do the things I 1680 01:40:28,880 --> 01:40:32,960 Speaker 1: do without that? And he sat there like a bear, 1681 01:40:33,080 --> 01:40:36,160 Speaker 1: you know, like wrapped in like a figure eight. That's 1682 01:40:36,200 --> 01:40:38,719 Speaker 1: why he handed the company because we charge a service charge, 1683 01:40:39,360 --> 01:40:42,479 Speaker 1: and no company that charges a service charge in America 1684 01:40:43,240 --> 01:40:46,840 Speaker 1: is ever gonna be perceived as a decent or. I 1685 01:40:46,960 --> 01:40:49,880 Speaker 1: use a friendly company. So if you if you buy 1686 01:40:49,880 --> 01:40:52,600 Speaker 1: a coach ticket, hopefully you land. If you're in the 1687 01:40:52,680 --> 01:40:55,280 Speaker 1: last row coach and not the first row, you land 1688 01:40:55,280 --> 01:40:57,840 Speaker 1: the same time as everybody. Nobody thinks about that. But 1689 01:40:57,920 --> 01:40:59,760 Speaker 1: if you go to a stadium in arena and you 1690 01:41:00,000 --> 01:41:03,160 Speaker 1: it in a bad seat, it's never the band, it's 1691 01:41:03,200 --> 01:41:06,000 Speaker 1: never the promoter, it's never the building. It's only the 1692 01:41:06,000 --> 01:41:09,040 Speaker 1: ticket company. Like you live in this vacuum where you're 1693 01:41:09,080 --> 01:41:12,120 Speaker 1: responsible for all this. Do you know how you deal 1694 01:41:12,200 --> 01:41:14,360 Speaker 1: with it? You shut it out, you turn off you're 1695 01:41:14,360 --> 01:41:18,120 Speaker 1: hearing it, You walk away and you go listen. You 1696 01:41:18,240 --> 01:41:23,639 Speaker 1: have the right not to go. And it's that simple. 1697 01:41:24,800 --> 01:41:27,160 Speaker 1: And the answer is the reason the prices have gotten 1698 01:41:27,200 --> 01:41:30,160 Speaker 1: where they are is because that's what they're worth. If 1699 01:41:30,200 --> 01:41:34,360 Speaker 1: you analyze that and analyze those tickets next to sports tickets, 1700 01:41:34,360 --> 01:41:38,840 Speaker 1: no different, it's no different. Let's just talk, as I say, 1701 01:41:38,920 --> 01:41:41,040 Speaker 1: you haven't been in the business for a while, but 1702 01:41:41,160 --> 01:41:44,600 Speaker 1: do you think there needs to be any changes of 1703 01:41:44,800 --> 01:41:48,360 Speaker 1: any type? You know, not only with a government, etcetera. 1704 01:41:48,800 --> 01:41:51,639 Speaker 1: If we I stop my fingers, you're running any running 1705 01:41:51,640 --> 01:41:54,880 Speaker 1: ticket master or another ticket company today, do you think 1706 01:41:55,120 --> 01:41:59,120 Speaker 1: they're doing something that you could improve upon? They could 1707 01:41:59,160 --> 01:42:04,960 Speaker 1: they could make it more transparent in terms of letting 1708 01:42:05,000 --> 01:42:09,439 Speaker 1: people know what they do. In other words, I don't 1709 01:42:09,479 --> 01:42:12,920 Speaker 1: think they do a good job. They do a lot 1710 01:42:12,920 --> 01:42:17,639 Speaker 1: of things well, but I don't think they that that 1711 01:42:17,680 --> 01:42:21,400 Speaker 1: they like the Bill of Rights. You don't set the 1712 01:42:21,400 --> 01:42:25,040 Speaker 1: ticket prices, you don't determine how many tickets go on sale. 1713 01:42:26,120 --> 01:42:29,360 Speaker 1: There's a whole host of things that need to get 1714 01:42:29,400 --> 01:42:35,120 Speaker 1: burned into people's consciousness that isn't there. And and the 1715 01:42:35,160 --> 01:42:38,799 Speaker 1: thing is that if one building manager told me about 1716 01:42:38,920 --> 01:42:40,400 Speaker 1: right before I left, he said, you know, if you 1717 01:42:40,439 --> 01:42:42,840 Speaker 1: didn't if you didn't exist, we have to invent you. 1718 01:42:44,360 --> 01:42:47,839 Speaker 1: Because what what ticket Tron did. Ticket Tron was terrible 1719 01:42:49,200 --> 01:42:54,960 Speaker 1: and didn't understand the role they played um and and 1720 01:42:55,040 --> 01:43:02,120 Speaker 1: by being charging a dollar, they fundamentally gave up um 1721 01:43:02,200 --> 01:43:05,920 Speaker 1: how do I put it, They gave up their right 1722 01:43:06,000 --> 01:43:10,720 Speaker 1: to have a role in the business. You operate in 1723 01:43:10,720 --> 01:43:15,400 Speaker 1: a solar system, so one of the things you know 1724 01:43:15,760 --> 01:43:18,439 Speaker 1: you for you would forget this. But you know, you 1725 01:43:18,560 --> 01:43:21,280 Speaker 1: have various promoters in the towns in a city who 1726 01:43:21,320 --> 01:43:23,639 Speaker 1: weach hated each other, and go, we're putting these three 1727 01:43:23,680 --> 01:43:28,400 Speaker 1: events on sale on Saturday. No you're not. That is 1728 01:43:28,479 --> 01:43:32,680 Speaker 1: not happening. You're the traffic cop. Okay. I think where 1729 01:43:32,760 --> 01:43:34,640 Speaker 1: Live Nation got in trouble is because they were a 1730 01:43:34,640 --> 01:43:37,000 Speaker 1: promoter and they want to protect the act. They didn't 1731 01:43:37,000 --> 01:43:38,800 Speaker 1: put their foot down and say we're not putting all 1732 01:43:38,800 --> 01:43:41,040 Speaker 1: the shows on sale. I think that's where they had 1733 01:43:41,040 --> 01:43:44,800 Speaker 1: a conflict. I would have stopped it. I said, there's 1734 01:43:44,840 --> 01:43:48,360 Speaker 1: not a goddamn way I'm gonna do that, and I 1735 01:43:48,360 --> 01:43:50,519 Speaker 1: would have put in circuit breakers. Where will you get 1736 01:43:50,520 --> 01:43:53,840 Speaker 1: that many attempts shut the system down? Shut it down. 1737 01:43:54,360 --> 01:43:56,920 Speaker 1: Say listen, we're not gonna sit here all day. We're 1738 01:43:56,920 --> 01:44:00,160 Speaker 1: gonna spoon feed this. What I would have done differently, 1739 01:44:01,680 --> 01:44:05,840 Speaker 1: not that anybody cares, is I would have said, Okay, 1740 01:44:05,880 --> 01:44:08,720 Speaker 1: for five days, we're gonna open this up to everybody. 1741 01:44:10,200 --> 01:44:15,320 Speaker 1: Send in your name, you can buy two tickets, and 1742 01:44:15,360 --> 01:44:17,280 Speaker 1: then you spin it out so you get rid of 1743 01:44:17,280 --> 01:44:19,880 Speaker 1: all the duplicates, the ones that aren't in the whatever, 1744 01:44:20,080 --> 01:44:23,360 Speaker 1: verified fan program, and all that other stuff, and then 1745 01:44:23,400 --> 01:44:27,599 Speaker 1: create a random program and then notified people. Two days later, 1746 01:44:27,640 --> 01:44:29,519 Speaker 1: you have two tickets, you have three tickets, you have 1747 01:44:29,600 --> 01:44:32,640 Speaker 1: four tickets. You do that. I would have done that. 1748 01:44:34,040 --> 01:44:37,439 Speaker 1: I mean, basically, it's okay to be the whipping boy 1749 01:44:37,479 --> 01:44:39,439 Speaker 1: for some stuff. It's not okay to be the whipping 1750 01:44:39,439 --> 01:44:42,880 Speaker 1: boy for other stuff. You know, where you basically sit 1751 01:44:42,920 --> 01:44:46,280 Speaker 1: in the room and say, listen, it has to be orderly. 1752 01:44:46,479 --> 01:44:49,200 Speaker 1: We cannot allow Yeah, I'll give you a perfect example. 1753 01:44:49,280 --> 01:44:53,160 Speaker 1: And I know you heard some of these stories. We 1754 01:44:53,240 --> 01:44:56,240 Speaker 1: got into it with a grateful debt. I always allowed 1755 01:44:56,280 --> 01:45:02,240 Speaker 1: them two um, because of the relationships with everybody would 1756 01:45:02,280 --> 01:45:05,280 Speaker 1: they would take a number of tickets for their fan club, 1757 01:45:05,520 --> 01:45:11,120 Speaker 1: whether it be arenas or stadiums or emphatheute of all places. 1758 01:45:11,160 --> 01:45:14,800 Speaker 1: All been in New York the Knickerbocker Arena. They took 1759 01:45:15,760 --> 01:45:19,240 Speaker 1: the ticket some idiotic amount. People line up and there 1760 01:45:19,280 --> 01:45:21,120 Speaker 1: was a riot because there was no tickets. So who 1761 01:45:21,120 --> 01:45:26,320 Speaker 1: gets blamed? Me? All right, So I tell everybody the 1762 01:45:26,360 --> 01:45:30,400 Speaker 1: grateful dead can no longer have any tickets, period. Shut 1763 01:45:30,439 --> 01:45:35,160 Speaker 1: it off. Now, those idiots Bud Nick and that group 1764 01:45:35,200 --> 01:45:38,000 Speaker 1: who wrote ticket Masses, which is a nice fictionalized account 1765 01:45:38,040 --> 01:45:42,679 Speaker 1: of that meeting. Um John Prisker who's Jay's soon sets 1766 01:45:42,760 --> 01:45:44,920 Speaker 1: up a meeting with me and some of their people, 1767 01:45:46,040 --> 01:45:48,200 Speaker 1: and we're in this meeting in San Francisco, and of 1768 01:45:48,240 --> 01:45:50,040 Speaker 1: course the initial meeting is we're gonna sue your for 1769 01:45:50,080 --> 01:45:52,599 Speaker 1: anti trust. Look at some point my eyes glaze over, 1770 01:45:52,640 --> 01:45:55,240 Speaker 1: because after you've been suited enough, it's like, okay, great, 1771 01:45:55,720 --> 01:45:58,519 Speaker 1: can we talk about something else? And I go, let 1772 01:45:58,520 --> 01:46:02,960 Speaker 1: me ask you a question. I have nothing but respect 1773 01:46:03,160 --> 01:46:05,599 Speaker 1: for who you guys are and who the band is. 1774 01:46:06,160 --> 01:46:09,559 Speaker 1: You put on a great show. Remember, we're also living 1775 01:46:09,560 --> 01:46:11,479 Speaker 1: at the time of guns and refunds, where you know 1776 01:46:11,520 --> 01:46:14,280 Speaker 1: whether they show up, whether they refined. I mean, you 1777 01:46:14,640 --> 01:46:18,439 Speaker 1: guys really care about the fans. But here's what I 1778 01:46:18,479 --> 01:46:23,760 Speaker 1: cannot do. I cannot let you trash my outlets for 1779 01:46:23,880 --> 01:46:27,200 Speaker 1: one day. For the other three sixty four can't do it. 1780 01:46:27,960 --> 01:46:30,360 Speaker 1: The people who are standing online mean as much as 1781 01:46:30,360 --> 01:46:32,639 Speaker 1: your people and your you know, in your fan club, 1782 01:46:33,439 --> 01:46:38,320 Speaker 1: and we've got to find an effective way that enables 1783 01:46:38,360 --> 01:46:41,040 Speaker 1: both to be satisfied, because if you trash my outlets, 1784 01:46:41,080 --> 01:46:43,479 Speaker 1: then I don't have a business the other three and 1785 01:46:43,560 --> 01:46:46,479 Speaker 1: no band can do that. That's not allowed. And the 1786 01:46:46,520 --> 01:46:49,400 Speaker 1: rest of the meeting after they went through death threats 1787 01:46:49,400 --> 01:46:51,320 Speaker 1: and I went, okay, great, you know, like I haven't 1788 01:46:51,320 --> 01:46:55,439 Speaker 1: seen them before. Let's figure it out. And we figured 1789 01:46:55,439 --> 01:46:59,840 Speaker 1: out numbers for amphitheaters, arenas and stadiums. And they said, 1790 01:46:59,840 --> 01:47:01,439 Speaker 1: if we don't sell them, can we give them back? 1791 01:47:01,439 --> 01:47:03,960 Speaker 1: And I said, of course you can, and you know what, 1792 01:47:04,120 --> 01:47:06,719 Speaker 1: we shook hands and we lived like that until Jerry 1793 01:47:06,760 --> 01:47:11,200 Speaker 1: Garcia died and no one complained. But I stood up 1794 01:47:11,800 --> 01:47:15,160 Speaker 1: for the people who stand online, and I stood up 1795 01:47:15,200 --> 01:47:18,040 Speaker 1: for having a business. And in the end it gets 1796 01:47:18,040 --> 01:47:20,920 Speaker 1: written that I'm an asshole because I said, you can't 1797 01:47:20,920 --> 01:47:24,000 Speaker 1: have the ticket in other words, nobody wants to understand 1798 01:47:24,200 --> 01:47:27,280 Speaker 1: what's underneath it. Nobody wants to understand the granularity of 1799 01:47:27,280 --> 01:47:32,120 Speaker 1: how you run these things. And I think what's important 1800 01:47:32,160 --> 01:47:35,799 Speaker 1: to understand is this. I knew what I was walking 1801 01:47:35,840 --> 01:47:37,960 Speaker 1: into over the first five It took me a while, 1802 01:47:38,040 --> 01:47:40,880 Speaker 1: but once I understood what it was, I never thought 1803 01:47:40,880 --> 01:47:42,800 Speaker 1: it was thankless. I thought it was really funny. And 1804 01:47:42,800 --> 01:47:45,080 Speaker 1: what was shocking to me is that the height of 1805 01:47:45,080 --> 01:47:47,439 Speaker 1: the Pearl Jam thing, which I must tell you probably 1806 01:47:47,479 --> 01:47:49,960 Speaker 1: took ten years of my life. Our sales went up, 1807 01:47:50,720 --> 01:47:52,880 Speaker 1: not down. It wasn't like Thailan at all. When people 1808 01:47:52,920 --> 01:47:55,080 Speaker 1: went away, most people didn't even understand what this is 1809 01:47:55,120 --> 01:47:59,800 Speaker 1: all about, because it was insane. And in the end, 1810 01:48:01,080 --> 01:48:03,000 Speaker 1: my view of that, and I don't mind saying, is 1811 01:48:03,160 --> 01:48:05,400 Speaker 1: I feel badly it happened. I wish I could have 1812 01:48:05,439 --> 01:48:09,800 Speaker 1: sat with other with people who weren't told lies, who 1813 01:48:09,840 --> 01:48:14,759 Speaker 1: represented the band, and and I think um um stump. 1814 01:48:14,800 --> 01:48:18,200 Speaker 1: Pilot's manager Steve wrote something on one of you, on 1815 01:48:18,200 --> 01:48:21,640 Speaker 1: one of your blocks, saying, I, I what's what's his 1816 01:48:21,720 --> 01:48:28,160 Speaker 1: last name? You know, Steve Simon, No, I don't remember. 1817 01:48:28,240 --> 01:48:31,160 Speaker 1: You caught me off guard, Okay, he said, Look, I 1818 01:48:31,160 --> 01:48:33,360 Speaker 1: I went and so forred and we solved everything in 1819 01:48:33,400 --> 01:48:36,160 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes. And he said, nobody else came to look 1820 01:48:36,640 --> 01:48:40,559 Speaker 1: if anybody talk to me. Common sense was eight percent 1821 01:48:40,640 --> 01:48:44,759 Speaker 1: of all this stuff. It's not rocket science, it's common sense. 1822 01:48:45,640 --> 01:48:48,080 Speaker 1: And then you gotta put in the emotion which leaves 1823 01:48:48,120 --> 01:48:51,599 Speaker 1: the planet, because then it's like the world is coming 1824 01:48:51,640 --> 01:48:54,439 Speaker 1: to an end and you can get congressional hearings. This 1825 01:48:54,840 --> 01:48:58,080 Speaker 1: is this is true Gary Condor who ran the pro 1826 01:48:58,240 --> 01:49:04,519 Speaker 1: Jam hearings. Steve Stewart, the Garry Condent ran the Projam hearings, 1827 01:49:04,560 --> 01:49:08,000 Speaker 1: and you may remember him from the Chandra Levy best right. 1828 01:49:08,479 --> 01:49:10,600 Speaker 1: So I went to see him a year after the 1829 01:49:10,640 --> 01:49:14,720 Speaker 1: hearings and about two months before the government left, and 1830 01:49:14,800 --> 01:49:17,680 Speaker 1: this is what he said to me, you're ready. This 1831 01:49:17,760 --> 01:49:20,640 Speaker 1: worked that great. I got a lot of good publicity. 1832 01:49:21,040 --> 01:49:24,320 Speaker 1: Everybody found no way minute, it gets better. Every everyone 1833 01:49:24,360 --> 01:49:26,160 Speaker 1: found that you're a good company. And I'm having a 1834 01:49:26,160 --> 01:49:28,439 Speaker 1: fundraising next week. Can you give me five hundred dollars? 1835 01:49:30,240 --> 01:49:33,320 Speaker 1: And I gave him five hundred dollars because I wanted 1836 01:49:33,400 --> 01:49:36,080 Speaker 1: my name to be there that I took the five dollars. 1837 01:49:38,640 --> 01:49:44,240 Speaker 1: If you live in the Maelstrom, you know there's partly 1838 01:49:44,280 --> 01:49:49,320 Speaker 1: a bunker mentality. And then there's also this absurdity that says, 1839 01:49:50,200 --> 01:49:53,800 Speaker 1: what is it that people don't get? You can't build 1840 01:49:53,840 --> 01:49:56,479 Speaker 1: an arena at seven miles long and ten ten rows 1841 01:49:56,680 --> 01:49:59,880 Speaker 1: can't do that. And when it comes to concert take 1842 01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:04,000 Speaker 1: it's for very few shows the world loses their mind. 1843 01:50:04,200 --> 01:50:07,400 Speaker 1: Nobody complains about clubs. Nobody complains about the two and 1844 01:50:07,479 --> 01:50:11,080 Speaker 1: three and five thousands, you know, cedars, Nobody complains about 1845 01:50:11,120 --> 01:50:13,599 Speaker 1: a lot of this arena acts that don't sell out. 1846 01:50:14,160 --> 01:50:17,880 Speaker 1: But you've got a few of these mega stars that 1847 01:50:17,920 --> 01:50:25,640 Speaker 1: are quite remarkable, that are amazingly talented, that lift the 1848 01:50:25,760 --> 01:50:30,400 Speaker 1: spirits of people, and and and I'm fascinated by that 1849 01:50:30,600 --> 01:50:35,760 Speaker 1: and appreciative of that um. And when it comes to 1850 01:50:35,800 --> 01:50:39,760 Speaker 1: ticket pricing, I don't get why there's a difference. The 1851 01:50:39,840 --> 01:50:44,040 Speaker 1: hippie hippies are over. I mean, you charge more for 1852 01:50:44,120 --> 01:50:47,120 Speaker 1: Christmas than you do the rest of the year. You know, 1853 01:50:47,320 --> 01:50:52,840 Speaker 1: I I I can't, I don't I say it The 1854 01:50:52,880 --> 01:50:56,120 Speaker 1: following in a reel, This is Fred rosen Line. The 1855 01:50:56,240 --> 01:50:58,519 Speaker 1: people who stolen music found out they couldn't steal the 1856 01:50:58,560 --> 01:51:00,960 Speaker 1: concert ticket, and since then life has not been the same. 1857 01:51:02,720 --> 01:51:05,400 Speaker 1: Let's switch gears a little bit. So what's your life 1858 01:51:05,400 --> 01:51:09,800 Speaker 1: about now? Hey, I'm seventy nine. Man, I'm having a 1859 01:51:09,840 --> 01:51:11,840 Speaker 1: good time. You know, we travel. I just took my 1860 01:51:11,880 --> 01:51:16,439 Speaker 1: son to askpen for five days. Um, we'll travel in 1861 01:51:16,439 --> 01:51:19,719 Speaker 1: the summer. We're going to Caribbean in a couple of weeks. UM. 1862 01:51:19,760 --> 01:51:23,519 Speaker 1: I do some community stuff to help people. I got 1863 01:51:23,560 --> 01:51:28,559 Speaker 1: on a plane to chase deal. Um, not in ticketing. 1864 01:51:29,120 --> 01:51:32,880 Speaker 1: I don't think it will happen. Um, And I keep 1865 01:51:32,920 --> 01:51:40,599 Speaker 1: myself occupied. Look, we're blessed. We have amazing lives. When 1866 01:51:40,600 --> 01:51:44,080 Speaker 1: you see what goes on in the world, we worked 1867 01:51:44,120 --> 01:51:49,559 Speaker 1: really hard. I'm shocked. I'm shocked by a couple of things, 1868 01:51:49,600 --> 01:51:52,559 Speaker 1: Bob that you'll find interesting. I'm shocked at the model 1869 01:51:52,600 --> 01:51:54,679 Speaker 1: I created forty years ago. It is still the model. 1870 01:51:54,760 --> 01:51:58,120 Speaker 1: The numbers are different, but it's still the model. I'm 1871 01:51:58,120 --> 01:52:00,880 Speaker 1: shocked that people remember my name live in l a 1872 01:52:01,320 --> 01:52:03,360 Speaker 1: name who was on a comedy, who was on a 1873 01:52:03,560 --> 01:52:06,120 Speaker 1: sitcom ten years ago. If you can't remember any of 1874 01:52:06,120 --> 01:52:11,599 Speaker 1: that or fifteen years ago, no matter what happens, people 1875 01:52:11,680 --> 01:52:15,720 Speaker 1: still identify me with the company, even though I have 1876 01:52:15,800 --> 01:52:21,000 Speaker 1: nothing to do with it. Um. What's remarkable. I always 1877 01:52:21,040 --> 01:52:24,000 Speaker 1: described myself as this I'm an idiot savant about tickets. 1878 01:52:25,360 --> 01:52:27,880 Speaker 1: I can't explain this whole business came out of my head. 1879 01:52:28,640 --> 01:52:33,120 Speaker 1: I do not understand why. I have sometimes thought about it, 1880 01:52:33,120 --> 01:52:36,679 Speaker 1: and I'm I'm going to write something for my family, 1881 01:52:37,120 --> 01:52:40,760 Speaker 1: basically the beginning, not not a book. I won't write 1882 01:52:40,760 --> 01:52:43,400 Speaker 1: a book because there are too many stories where you 1883 01:52:43,400 --> 01:52:45,400 Speaker 1: would hurt people, and I don't want to hurt people. 1884 01:52:45,479 --> 01:52:48,080 Speaker 1: That's not what this is about. But I want to 1885 01:52:48,120 --> 01:52:51,920 Speaker 1: write something, a memoir from my family, about how all this. 1886 01:52:52,360 --> 01:52:53,960 Speaker 1: You know, I told you you you got bis and 1887 01:52:54,000 --> 01:52:57,160 Speaker 1: pieces of it because we only have two hours. But 1888 01:52:57,160 --> 01:53:02,560 Speaker 1: but how it all happened, all of its serendipity, serendipity 1889 01:53:02,640 --> 01:53:05,040 Speaker 1: that I was in the office that night where that 1890 01:53:05,120 --> 01:53:06,840 Speaker 1: lawyer would not have called me if I wasn't in 1891 01:53:06,880 --> 01:53:11,080 Speaker 1: the office, serendipity that Steve Wozniak didn't want to use 1892 01:53:11,400 --> 01:53:15,080 Speaker 1: ticket Tron and said, listen, you come out to l A. 1893 01:53:15,160 --> 01:53:18,120 Speaker 1: I'm gonna spend a million dollars to do this. Who 1894 01:53:18,120 --> 01:53:22,240 Speaker 1: would think that serendipity, that ticket Tron would be so 1895 01:53:22,400 --> 01:53:24,720 Speaker 1: stupid as to walk away from the forum and not 1896 01:53:24,880 --> 01:53:29,080 Speaker 1: honor an agreement. And then the thing that killed Tickettron 1897 01:53:29,240 --> 01:53:33,120 Speaker 1: more than anything else. This was the knife in the coffin. 1898 01:53:34,360 --> 01:53:37,479 Speaker 1: They were doing four shows at the coliseum. Do you 1899 01:53:37,479 --> 01:53:42,400 Speaker 1: remember that, Yeah, okay, So for whatever reason, they went 1900 01:53:42,439 --> 01:53:45,000 Speaker 1: to Tickettron, who had an exclusive contract at the building, 1901 01:53:46,800 --> 01:53:49,160 Speaker 1: and they said, we don't we don't think you can 1902 01:53:49,160 --> 01:53:51,640 Speaker 1: sell the four shows. You gotta give two shows to Ticketmaster. 1903 01:53:53,280 --> 01:53:58,320 Speaker 1: So I go down to the meeting and and they go, 1904 01:53:58,360 --> 01:54:01,400 Speaker 1: we're gonna flip a coin. Who does one, two and 1905 01:54:01,479 --> 01:54:03,120 Speaker 1: four and one and one and three? And I go, 1906 01:54:03,400 --> 01:54:07,280 Speaker 1: it's their building, give them whatever they want. So they 1907 01:54:07,320 --> 01:54:09,080 Speaker 1: do one in three, we do two and four. By 1908 01:54:09,120 --> 01:54:11,920 Speaker 1: two o'clock in the afternoon, all the tickets we have 1909 01:54:12,120 --> 01:54:15,960 Speaker 1: are gone and ticket Tron still has basically fifty of 1910 01:54:15,960 --> 01:54:22,719 Speaker 1: each show. So with turning people away, So the following week, 1911 01:54:22,960 --> 01:54:25,519 Speaker 1: I go, we can't do this. So I call the 1912 01:54:25,560 --> 01:54:27,559 Speaker 1: colliseum and said, go to ticket Tron and tell them 1913 01:54:27,560 --> 01:54:31,800 Speaker 1: the following tell them to give us an allocation. I 1914 01:54:31,840 --> 01:54:34,360 Speaker 1: will give them a hundred other than two dollars a ticket, 1915 01:54:34,360 --> 01:54:37,480 Speaker 1: I'll give him a hundred percent of the money above that, 1916 01:54:38,200 --> 01:54:41,160 Speaker 1: and at the outlet they gotta pay the outlet was 1917 01:54:41,280 --> 01:54:43,320 Speaker 1: sent or a dollar, and then they can have the 1918 01:54:43,400 --> 01:54:45,720 Speaker 1: rest I won't make any money, but we shouldn't turn 1919 01:54:45,760 --> 01:54:50,360 Speaker 1: anybody away. Well, guess what happens. Ticket tron couldn't sell it. 1920 01:54:51,040 --> 01:54:53,240 Speaker 1: I mean, in the world of being smart, it turned 1921 01:54:53,240 --> 01:54:55,800 Speaker 1: out even better than I thought. It went across the country. 1922 01:54:55,800 --> 01:54:59,440 Speaker 1: The Ticketmaster has so little their tickets. And that was 1923 01:54:59,480 --> 01:55:02,400 Speaker 1: the end. It was the beginning of the end. And 1924 01:55:02,440 --> 01:55:06,960 Speaker 1: then when Ogden and a poland who's you know and 1925 01:55:07,160 --> 01:55:09,800 Speaker 1: what the company? They had a guy go around the 1926 01:55:09,800 --> 01:55:14,360 Speaker 1: country and he went like this, I'm much nicer than Fred. Well, 1927 01:55:14,400 --> 01:55:16,680 Speaker 1: apparently everybody was much nicer than me in the eighties 1928 01:55:16,680 --> 01:55:19,120 Speaker 1: and nineties. And they said, I'm much nicer than Fred. 1929 01:55:19,520 --> 01:55:22,960 Speaker 1: And we're gonna lower the service charge. And they said, okay, great, 1930 01:55:23,440 --> 01:55:26,080 Speaker 1: how much do we get. They go, well, if Fred's 1931 01:55:26,120 --> 01:55:27,840 Speaker 1: giving you a half a million, we'll have to give 1932 01:55:27,880 --> 01:55:30,360 Speaker 1: you a two hundred thousand, you know, or less. And 1933 01:55:30,400 --> 01:55:33,840 Speaker 1: they would go, a son, we have death service to 1934 01:55:33,880 --> 01:55:37,840 Speaker 1: pay Fred's fine. So if you'd like that, Um, that 1935 01:55:37,880 --> 01:55:40,879 Speaker 1: ain't gonna work. And when we sat with the government, 1936 01:55:41,880 --> 01:55:45,080 Speaker 1: we said to them, look, if you own a building 1937 01:55:47,520 --> 01:55:51,920 Speaker 1: to beat Ticketmaster, you have to pay more. So if 1938 01:55:52,080 --> 01:55:55,360 Speaker 1: TM is paying five dred, you gotta pay seven fifty. 1939 01:55:55,720 --> 01:55:58,240 Speaker 1: Now what happens to the price to the public, and 1940 01:55:58,280 --> 01:56:01,320 Speaker 1: the room looked around. When it goes up and go right, 1941 01:56:01,880 --> 01:56:05,760 Speaker 1: competition forces prices up, not down, because no one's taken less. 1942 01:56:06,400 --> 01:56:09,400 Speaker 1: And that was like this amazing epiphany which you can't 1943 01:56:09,400 --> 01:56:12,920 Speaker 1: find in any other business. But when food services take over, 1944 01:56:13,280 --> 01:56:15,280 Speaker 1: the food goes up, the hot dogs go up, the 1945 01:56:15,320 --> 01:56:17,640 Speaker 1: beer goes up. You know, you can't walk away from 1946 01:56:17,680 --> 01:56:21,800 Speaker 1: all that. And I can't tell you that when I 1947 01:56:21,880 --> 01:56:24,520 Speaker 1: created this model that was in my head, but the 1948 01:56:24,640 --> 01:56:27,920 Speaker 1: Bible it was clearly a byproduct of the model because 1949 01:56:27,960 --> 01:56:31,280 Speaker 1: I made it early on that I would take the 1950 01:56:31,280 --> 01:56:35,200 Speaker 1: heat for the buildings, and every building manager who would 1951 01:56:35,240 --> 01:56:37,080 Speaker 1: throw me under a bus would call me up the 1952 01:56:37,120 --> 01:56:40,400 Speaker 1: next thing go you don't mind, do you No, that's fine, 1953 01:56:40,720 --> 01:56:44,480 Speaker 1: not a problem, and they go, thank you, thank you. 1954 01:56:44,520 --> 01:56:47,520 Speaker 1: Because to me, if I could make those guys heroes, 1955 01:56:48,720 --> 01:56:52,160 Speaker 1: I had a business. And that's why in sixteen years 1956 01:56:52,160 --> 01:56:54,160 Speaker 1: that I ran the company, I never lost the client. 1957 01:56:55,600 --> 01:56:59,120 Speaker 1: And and I think it was it was a you know, look, 1958 01:56:59,480 --> 01:57:03,880 Speaker 1: you know enough to know that guys like me create issues. 1959 01:57:03,960 --> 01:57:06,200 Speaker 1: I had great friends and I had great enemies. It's 1960 01:57:06,280 --> 01:57:08,600 Speaker 1: kind of the way it works. And there were people 1961 01:57:08,600 --> 01:57:10,400 Speaker 1: who thought I was too tough, and then people thought 1962 01:57:10,400 --> 01:57:12,560 Speaker 1: I was too mean, and then were other people thought 1963 01:57:12,560 --> 01:57:15,200 Speaker 1: I was a pretty good guy, and and set them 1964 01:57:15,280 --> 01:57:17,320 Speaker 1: up and I made a lot of people a lot 1965 01:57:17,360 --> 01:57:20,840 Speaker 1: of money. I cleaned up the ticket distribution business. I 1966 01:57:20,960 --> 01:57:23,600 Speaker 1: made it so that people could trust audits. I made 1967 01:57:23,600 --> 01:57:26,480 Speaker 1: it so that acts got their money. I made it 1968 01:57:26,560 --> 01:57:31,240 Speaker 1: so that that at the end of the day, you 1969 01:57:31,320 --> 01:57:33,200 Speaker 1: got a ticket, it was a legitimate ticket. It wasn't 1970 01:57:33,200 --> 01:57:35,960 Speaker 1: a counterfeit ticket. It was a real ticket, whether it 1971 01:57:36,080 --> 01:57:38,240 Speaker 1: was you know now it's on your phone whatever. But 1972 01:57:38,320 --> 01:57:41,720 Speaker 1: the point is, we made a real business out of 1973 01:57:41,760 --> 01:57:44,920 Speaker 1: this when there was none and no one thought it was. 1974 01:57:46,200 --> 01:57:49,480 Speaker 1: And I'm proud of that. I'm proud that. I'm serious 1975 01:57:49,480 --> 01:57:53,440 Speaker 1: that I'm proud that anybody remembers my name. And you know, 1976 01:57:54,520 --> 01:57:59,320 Speaker 1: it's an interesting legacy, um because nobody wants to learn. 1977 01:57:59,640 --> 01:58:02,360 Speaker 1: Nobody is happy with the truth. So when you're not 1978 01:58:02,440 --> 01:58:05,560 Speaker 1: happy with the truth, you keep finding things that kind 1979 01:58:05,560 --> 01:58:08,760 Speaker 1: of shade the truth. But there's nothing, there's none of that. 1980 01:58:09,360 --> 01:58:13,120 Speaker 1: I mean, someone wrote some s whole article about Bert 1981 01:58:13,200 --> 01:58:15,640 Speaker 1: can Are being involved and some of the people Bert 1982 01:58:15,680 --> 01:58:20,040 Speaker 1: was involved with, and Bert was going from I mean nobody. 1983 01:58:20,160 --> 01:58:22,840 Speaker 1: You you know the article I'm talking about, it's not 1984 01:58:23,240 --> 01:58:26,680 Speaker 1: they made They made that crap up. We cleaned up 1985 01:58:26,720 --> 01:58:32,120 Speaker 1: the business. Okay, do you miss the action? I missed 1986 01:58:32,120 --> 01:58:36,280 Speaker 1: the peak. Let's put it like this. You know I 1987 01:58:36,440 --> 01:58:39,320 Speaker 1: was dormant for a long time and I missed the 1988 01:58:39,320 --> 01:58:42,480 Speaker 1: peat when I saw that I missed the people. At 1989 01:58:42,560 --> 01:58:46,400 Speaker 1: some point, Um, you get tired of the same fight, 1990 01:58:46,680 --> 01:58:48,560 Speaker 1: if you know what I mean. And I think when 1991 01:58:48,560 --> 01:58:51,440 Speaker 1: I left I had enough. All Right, this is kind 1992 01:58:51,480 --> 01:58:53,520 Speaker 1: of fascinating to me because I go to sleep I 1993 01:58:53,560 --> 01:58:55,960 Speaker 1: almost any sleepover. This is kind of it's kind of 1994 01:58:55,960 --> 01:58:58,240 Speaker 1: funny for me. And you get it's like a reset 1995 01:58:58,240 --> 01:59:01,000 Speaker 1: that everybody remembers you did this right, you know where 1996 01:59:01,640 --> 01:59:03,480 Speaker 1: you know? People now want to make a documentary. I 1997 01:59:03,520 --> 01:59:05,320 Speaker 1: don't know if I'm gonna let him do it. But 1998 01:59:06,200 --> 01:59:13,560 Speaker 1: the point is, Um, there's an energy that I had 1999 01:59:13,600 --> 01:59:16,360 Speaker 1: in this business that I never had in any other business. 2000 01:59:17,000 --> 01:59:21,640 Speaker 1: And the people I some night when we're not recording, 2001 01:59:21,720 --> 01:59:24,280 Speaker 1: I'll get you salters and eye and I'll tell you 2002 01:59:24,400 --> 01:59:27,240 Speaker 1: stories that even you would laugh at because I knew 2003 01:59:27,280 --> 01:59:30,400 Speaker 1: all these guys and and the real you know, everything 2004 01:59:30,440 --> 01:59:34,200 Speaker 1: I told you on this is true. But you know, 2005 01:59:34,520 --> 01:59:37,920 Speaker 1: before the Internet, i'd get a hundred hundred and fifty 2006 01:59:37,920 --> 01:59:41,160 Speaker 1: calls a day. I took care of everybody. I made 2007 01:59:41,200 --> 01:59:44,280 Speaker 1: sure that everybody was taken care of. And when people 2008 01:59:44,320 --> 01:59:49,800 Speaker 1: would say, you know what, why are they so strong relationships? 2009 01:59:50,800 --> 01:59:54,440 Speaker 1: You build relationships and sometimes you'd fall on your sword 2010 01:59:54,560 --> 01:59:58,440 Speaker 1: or sometimes you help somebody out, I would tell you this, 2011 01:59:58,440 --> 02:00:01,480 Speaker 1: this is this is no joke. Paul to Let and 2012 02:00:01,560 --> 02:00:03,680 Speaker 1: his partner, the guy who died I forget his name, 2013 02:00:04,480 --> 02:00:07,040 Speaker 1: two young kids, and they were always what I always remember, 2014 02:00:07,040 --> 02:00:09,520 Speaker 1: those little ads in the l A times for social distortion. 2015 02:00:09,880 --> 02:00:11,480 Speaker 1: That was what I remember, because they would do all 2016 02:00:11,480 --> 02:00:14,960 Speaker 1: those other times and we would pay them after the acts. 2017 02:00:15,000 --> 02:00:19,360 Speaker 1: And then the only two kids, they came to me, 2018 02:00:20,440 --> 02:00:22,360 Speaker 1: this is way before. I mean, these kids have done 2019 02:00:22,720 --> 02:00:26,200 Speaker 1: you know, post done brilliantly. And they came and sat 2020 02:00:26,240 --> 02:00:29,680 Speaker 1: in my office and said, it's really hard for us 2021 02:00:30,080 --> 02:00:35,320 Speaker 1: because we live hand to mouth, and we were wondering 2022 02:00:35,400 --> 02:00:39,400 Speaker 1: if we could get a line with you. And I 2023 02:00:39,440 --> 02:00:43,640 Speaker 1: liked them. They worked hard, they did their shows. We'd 2024 02:00:43,680 --> 02:00:45,480 Speaker 1: always pay them, you know, so they could do it. 2025 02:00:45,520 --> 02:00:47,120 Speaker 1: And I said, how much of the line do you need? 2026 02:00:47,880 --> 02:00:49,960 Speaker 1: I think there was fifty or a hundred grand. Then 2027 02:00:49,960 --> 02:00:52,080 Speaker 1: I gave him a line. Only people I ever did 2028 02:00:52,080 --> 02:00:55,360 Speaker 1: that too, and it was me. I mean I did 2029 02:00:55,880 --> 02:00:58,880 Speaker 1: so many things for people that nobody begins to know, 2030 02:01:00,440 --> 02:01:05,200 Speaker 1: because if people knew that, you know, part of the 2031 02:01:05,280 --> 02:01:08,440 Speaker 1: reputation I had kept people away and made you in 2032 02:01:08,480 --> 02:01:11,080 Speaker 1: a place where you couldn't be every place. And I 2033 02:01:11,120 --> 02:01:14,080 Speaker 1: would tell my people, look, I'm the toughest person you're 2034 02:01:14,080 --> 02:01:16,120 Speaker 1: gonna live within a day. So if you sit in 2035 02:01:16,200 --> 02:01:18,960 Speaker 1: the room and somebody's giving you a hard time to say, 2036 02:01:18,960 --> 02:01:20,640 Speaker 1: you're gonna get me on the phone, nobody's gonn want 2037 02:01:20,640 --> 02:01:25,720 Speaker 1: to talk to and look, I'm telling you the truth. 2038 02:01:26,160 --> 02:01:28,200 Speaker 1: This is how how else can you build a company 2039 02:01:28,240 --> 02:01:30,800 Speaker 1: I started with When I left there with five thousand, 2040 02:01:31,800 --> 02:01:35,840 Speaker 1: I had people everywhere. And the thing is this, you 2041 02:01:35,960 --> 02:01:40,200 Speaker 1: had a reputation that your word was your bond. You 2042 02:01:40,320 --> 02:01:43,800 Speaker 1: ran a clean company, You didn't screw around. And by 2043 02:01:43,800 --> 02:01:45,760 Speaker 1: the way, you know this, I didn't hang out. You know, 2044 02:01:45,840 --> 02:01:48,360 Speaker 1: I was never backstage, you know I was That was 2045 02:01:48,440 --> 02:01:51,080 Speaker 1: not who I was. I mean, I fell asleep when 2046 02:01:51,080 --> 02:01:52,680 Speaker 1: the tenth of the joke was how many times I 2047 02:01:52,680 --> 02:01:57,000 Speaker 1: fell asleep when I did go to events, But That's 2048 02:01:57,040 --> 02:02:01,480 Speaker 1: how I conducted myself. Where where I found this out 2049 02:02:01,560 --> 02:02:06,160 Speaker 1: later about the government. One of my lawyers was who 2050 02:02:06,240 --> 02:02:10,560 Speaker 1: was a great lawyer, was in Washington, And you know, 2051 02:02:10,640 --> 02:02:13,840 Speaker 1: I started with nothing. You know, when we were losing 2052 02:02:13,840 --> 02:02:15,960 Speaker 1: two million dollars, I didn't go screaming to the government 2053 02:02:15,960 --> 02:02:18,520 Speaker 1: the ticket transcot monopolies. Everybody told me I was wrong. 2054 02:02:18,560 --> 02:02:21,520 Speaker 1: I was gonna lose. And this is what they said. 2055 02:02:23,080 --> 02:02:27,360 Speaker 1: We didn't think he was that smart. Oh, that's what 2056 02:02:27,400 --> 02:02:29,320 Speaker 1: they said. We didn't think he was that smart. You see, 2057 02:02:29,520 --> 02:02:32,120 Speaker 1: because if you're a wise ass and you saw those 2058 02:02:32,160 --> 02:02:34,360 Speaker 1: idiot comments I make, if I don't sell every ticket 2059 02:02:34,360 --> 02:02:36,640 Speaker 1: in America, I can't sleep. I mean, I would just 2060 02:02:36,680 --> 02:02:41,840 Speaker 1: say stupid, outrageous stuff. But I cared about what I did. 2061 02:02:42,480 --> 02:02:44,720 Speaker 1: I really did care about what I did, and I 2062 02:02:44,800 --> 02:02:46,960 Speaker 1: cared about taking care of the people who worked for 2063 02:02:47,040 --> 02:02:50,720 Speaker 1: me and taking care of um my clients. And I'm 2064 02:02:50,720 --> 02:02:53,680 Speaker 1: gonna tell you two stories that that I think are 2065 02:02:53,720 --> 02:02:58,120 Speaker 1: really important that nobody will ever talk about Ticketmaster. I 2066 02:02:58,200 --> 02:03:01,400 Speaker 1: promoted a guy in three from thirty two to thirty 2067 02:03:01,440 --> 02:03:04,960 Speaker 1: five thousand dollars make him head of operations, not that 2068 02:03:05,000 --> 02:03:06,840 Speaker 1: I knew what an operation was. At that time, I 2069 02:03:06,880 --> 02:03:08,840 Speaker 1: was trying to figure it out, and he came in 2070 02:03:08,920 --> 02:03:12,520 Speaker 1: my office and he said, I don't think I can 2071 02:03:12,560 --> 02:03:14,680 Speaker 1: take the job because you're gonna find out I'm gay 2072 02:03:14,920 --> 02:03:16,720 Speaker 1: and I want to make a hundred thousand dollars a 2073 02:03:16,800 --> 02:03:19,000 Speaker 1: year and I'll never get it here, although I do 2074 02:03:19,040 --> 02:03:22,520 Speaker 1: think you're gonna build a big company. And I looked 2075 02:03:22,520 --> 02:03:24,400 Speaker 1: at him and said, what has any of that got 2076 02:03:24,400 --> 02:03:27,840 Speaker 1: to do with your ability? He said, well, nothing. I said, 2077 02:03:27,840 --> 02:03:29,320 Speaker 1: to get the funk out of my office. I don't 2078 02:03:29,320 --> 02:03:31,200 Speaker 1: need to hear I don't need to hear this. You'll 2079 02:03:31,240 --> 02:03:36,640 Speaker 1: be judged on who you are anyway. Fast forward. Because 2080 02:03:36,760 --> 02:03:39,040 Speaker 1: I didn't care about that, and I built a really 2081 02:03:39,120 --> 02:03:42,360 Speaker 1: diverse company. And Larry will tell you that we had 2082 02:03:42,400 --> 02:03:44,520 Speaker 1: everybody in the company. About a third of my senior 2083 02:03:44,560 --> 02:03:49,839 Speaker 1: workforce was gay. And in ninety two, when Calendar actually 2084 02:03:49,840 --> 02:03:52,440 Speaker 1: meant something m c A. It was a big story 2085 02:03:52,440 --> 02:03:57,680 Speaker 1: in Calendar about domestic partner insurance. And because I felt 2086 02:03:57,720 --> 02:04:00,880 Speaker 1: that human capital was the most important capital that you 2087 02:04:00,920 --> 02:04:04,440 Speaker 1: can have, and that I would tell people look in 2088 02:04:04,440 --> 02:04:06,480 Speaker 1: the mirror, because everything you get from life is looking 2089 02:04:06,480 --> 02:04:09,760 Speaker 1: in the mirror. Good, better, and different. I read this story, 2090 02:04:09,920 --> 02:04:11,760 Speaker 1: I call my the people. I know what m c A, 2091 02:04:11,840 --> 02:04:15,480 Speaker 1: and I go, would you share that information with my people? 2092 02:04:15,640 --> 02:04:18,080 Speaker 1: And they went yes. And I called this gentleman in 2093 02:04:18,160 --> 02:04:22,680 Speaker 1: my office two and said, this is a really great idea. 2094 02:04:23,240 --> 02:04:26,840 Speaker 1: We should do this for all people on two conditions. 2095 02:04:27,320 --> 02:04:29,560 Speaker 1: He said, what are they? I said one, I've spent 2096 02:04:29,640 --> 02:04:33,839 Speaker 1: as much time as I'm going to spend on this. 2097 02:04:33,840 --> 02:04:36,920 Speaker 1: This is now in your bailiwick. All I want to 2098 02:04:36,960 --> 02:04:38,720 Speaker 1: know is what it costs, and I'll do it, and 2099 02:04:38,760 --> 02:04:40,280 Speaker 1: the cost will not I just want to know what 2100 02:04:40,320 --> 02:04:41,760 Speaker 1: it's gonna cost me, and I'll do it. And we 2101 02:04:41,800 --> 02:04:47,200 Speaker 1: put it in ninety two because you can you follow 2102 02:04:47,240 --> 02:04:49,520 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Yes, but let me ask you why 2103 02:04:49,560 --> 02:04:54,560 Speaker 1: to switch it to one thing? What about anti Semitism today? Awful? 2104 02:04:55,200 --> 02:04:57,680 Speaker 1: But I was the only Jewish guy in my company 2105 02:04:57,720 --> 02:05:01,920 Speaker 1: for ten years for real. Um, Well, you talked about 2106 02:05:01,920 --> 02:05:05,000 Speaker 1: the government and you said they didn't take you seriously. 2107 02:05:05,080 --> 02:05:09,600 Speaker 1: Do you think that was partially because you're Jewish? Well 2108 02:05:09,640 --> 02:05:14,120 Speaker 1: think about this. You're in New York, you're ethnic, you're 2109 02:05:14,120 --> 02:05:15,920 Speaker 1: a lawyer, and you're living in l A. And that's 2110 02:05:15,960 --> 02:05:18,360 Speaker 1: four out of three strikes. And you went around America 2111 02:05:18,400 --> 02:05:20,640 Speaker 1: and took care of it, you know, and built a business. 2112 02:05:21,600 --> 02:05:24,720 Speaker 1: I think anti Semitism today is I would say this, 2113 02:05:25,480 --> 02:05:28,960 Speaker 1: the pilot light of hate is always on. I think 2114 02:05:28,960 --> 02:05:32,800 Speaker 1: Trump turned it up to a full flame. I look 2115 02:05:32,840 --> 02:05:36,440 Speaker 1: at people like Kanye and this other twenty four year 2116 02:05:36,480 --> 02:05:42,280 Speaker 1: old moron. You know there's a place for them to talk. Um, 2117 02:05:42,320 --> 02:05:47,080 Speaker 1: It's always there under the surface. I have not encountered 2118 02:05:47,080 --> 02:05:50,880 Speaker 1: a lot of it in my life, fortunately, not directly. Anyway, 2119 02:05:51,400 --> 02:05:54,120 Speaker 1: I think it's awful because I think part of what 2120 02:05:54,200 --> 02:05:56,879 Speaker 1: America is about. I think some of it's driven by religion. 2121 02:05:57,720 --> 02:06:01,280 Speaker 1: America has evolved because it's free him of and firm religion. 2122 02:06:02,240 --> 02:06:05,200 Speaker 1: And I think Bob, to be fair, Jews are easy 2123 02:06:05,240 --> 02:06:07,200 Speaker 1: to blame when you when you run out of everything else, 2124 02:06:07,200 --> 02:06:09,160 Speaker 1: who do you blame? You blame the Jews. It becomes this, 2125 02:06:09,360 --> 02:06:14,080 Speaker 1: you know, interesting dynamic. Um. I think the president and 2126 02:06:14,120 --> 02:06:18,200 Speaker 1: I think, um, the various organizations are doing what they can. 2127 02:06:19,320 --> 02:06:21,720 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's peaked, but I think it's close. 2128 02:06:23,840 --> 02:06:26,680 Speaker 1: I think in the end, when I look at anti 2129 02:06:26,760 --> 02:06:31,520 Speaker 1: Asian stuff, I can't comprehend it. I can't comprehend what 2130 02:06:31,560 --> 02:06:35,640 Speaker 1: the cops are doing. On some level, I think, I 2131 02:06:35,680 --> 02:06:39,320 Speaker 1: think what COVID did is by locking everybody up for 2132 02:06:39,400 --> 02:06:42,920 Speaker 1: two years. It's like rats in a maze, and so 2133 02:06:43,120 --> 02:06:49,240 Speaker 1: there's this dynamic of this frustration that gets filled out. UM. 2134 02:06:49,280 --> 02:06:52,960 Speaker 1: My hope is it goes back to where it was. 2135 02:06:53,960 --> 02:06:56,440 Speaker 1: I think people are a lot more proactive about dealing 2136 02:06:56,480 --> 02:07:01,080 Speaker 1: with it. I hate the fact it's on campuses. UM. 2137 02:07:01,120 --> 02:07:03,560 Speaker 1: I hate the fact that young people think that that's 2138 02:07:03,600 --> 02:07:06,800 Speaker 1: the way to behave They have always been lunatics in 2139 02:07:06,800 --> 02:07:09,880 Speaker 1: this country of the far right, UM, and the far 2140 02:07:09,960 --> 02:07:12,080 Speaker 1: left is no fan either. I mean, it's like when 2141 02:07:12,120 --> 02:07:14,000 Speaker 1: I watch some of the anti Israel stuff from some 2142 02:07:14,040 --> 02:07:16,080 Speaker 1: of these people, and I go, so, let me ask 2143 02:07:16,120 --> 02:07:19,000 Speaker 1: you a question. How would you feel if the people 2144 02:07:19,040 --> 02:07:21,640 Speaker 1: in Mexico We're gonna start lobbying bonds. It's not like 2145 02:07:21,840 --> 02:07:24,640 Speaker 1: Hamas hasn't had a million ways to make peace, but 2146 02:07:24,720 --> 02:07:27,600 Speaker 1: their whole goal is, Okay, we have to eradicate Israel, 2147 02:07:27,600 --> 02:07:30,800 Speaker 1: which is not gonna happen. My view of how to 2148 02:07:31,200 --> 02:07:32,760 Speaker 1: I have actually a view of how to make peace 2149 02:07:32,760 --> 02:07:36,120 Speaker 1: in the Middle East, which is by it, but underneath 2150 02:07:36,160 --> 02:07:42,800 Speaker 1: it is it bothers me that it exists. I'm troubled 2151 02:07:42,800 --> 02:07:46,920 Speaker 1: by it. UM. I've been to Auschwitz My wife and 2152 02:07:47,000 --> 02:07:49,360 Speaker 1: I have been at Auschwitz. We've been at various places. 2153 02:07:49,880 --> 02:07:54,360 Speaker 1: That place. You can't even describe it as evil because 2154 02:07:54,360 --> 02:07:58,160 Speaker 1: it's a level beyond the evil and dastardly and mean. 2155 02:07:58,560 --> 02:08:00,240 Speaker 1: And I always think the thing that's most interes thing 2156 02:08:00,280 --> 02:08:03,000 Speaker 1: about that is they knew how crazy they were, which 2157 02:08:03,000 --> 02:08:04,680 Speaker 1: is why they all left to go to whether they 2158 02:08:04,720 --> 02:08:07,400 Speaker 1: all try to escape, because they knew that what they 2159 02:08:07,400 --> 02:08:11,839 Speaker 1: were doing was wrong, and a Western civilization doing that shocking, 2160 02:08:12,800 --> 02:08:19,520 Speaker 1: but and and appalling, um and you know, frightening. So 2161 02:08:19,760 --> 02:08:26,200 Speaker 1: I hope the more we focus on anti Semitism, um, 2162 02:08:26,280 --> 02:08:28,520 Speaker 1: that it lessens and goes back to where it was. 2163 02:08:28,680 --> 02:08:36,240 Speaker 1: I cannot see it getting much beyond where it is now. Um. 2164 02:08:36,320 --> 02:08:39,400 Speaker 1: And you know, I have levels of nervousness by who 2165 02:08:39,400 --> 02:08:43,800 Speaker 1: gets elected. I mean, the ultimate line was ghosts are 2166 02:08:43,800 --> 02:08:47,600 Speaker 1: throwing Omar off the committee because she made anti Israel statements. 2167 02:08:47,640 --> 02:08:51,880 Speaker 1: This moron actually went to a pro Nazi rally. I mean, 2168 02:08:52,120 --> 02:08:54,760 Speaker 1: you know, you can't, you can't wrap your head around 2169 02:08:54,760 --> 02:09:00,160 Speaker 1: stuff like this. And my view has always been to 2170 02:09:00,200 --> 02:09:05,720 Speaker 1: be tolerant and let people be who they are. And 2171 02:09:05,840 --> 02:09:09,520 Speaker 1: I look at religion in the following way. If it 2172 02:09:09,560 --> 02:09:12,280 Speaker 1: gives you comfort, I'm all for it, don't inflict it 2173 02:09:12,360 --> 02:09:16,280 Speaker 1: on me. And if it's if it's violent or nationalistic 2174 02:09:16,640 --> 02:09:22,520 Speaker 1: or creates hatred of another race or nationality, I can't 2175 02:09:22,520 --> 02:09:24,320 Speaker 1: deal with that. In the same way I told you 2176 02:09:24,360 --> 02:09:27,440 Speaker 1: the third about a gay guy. We had this young 2177 02:09:27,480 --> 02:09:30,640 Speaker 1: African American come into my office in three and he goes, 2178 02:09:31,120 --> 02:09:34,240 Speaker 1: do you know Peter Schwartz? And I he was a 2179 02:09:34,280 --> 02:09:37,000 Speaker 1: guy fixed machines, And I go, why would I know 2180 02:09:37,040 --> 02:09:40,800 Speaker 1: Peter Schwartz? And he said, well, he's Jewish. I got 2181 02:09:40,800 --> 02:09:43,320 Speaker 1: there's five thousand Jews in l A. Do you know 2182 02:09:43,400 --> 02:09:46,040 Speaker 1: every black person? He goes, well, no, but I thought 2183 02:09:46,040 --> 02:09:48,440 Speaker 1: all the Jews knew each other, And go, okay, you 2184 02:09:48,520 --> 02:09:52,080 Speaker 1: need to have a seat at the table. But that's 2185 02:09:52,400 --> 02:09:57,000 Speaker 1: life experiences. Man. It's like, you know, like wow, um, 2186 02:09:57,040 --> 02:10:02,920 Speaker 1: and what my hope is this? You'll find this funny. 2187 02:10:03,520 --> 02:10:07,960 Speaker 1: All work, to me is spiritual and holy, not holy 2188 02:10:08,000 --> 02:10:10,920 Speaker 1: in the religious sense. But if you do something and 2189 02:10:11,000 --> 02:10:13,480 Speaker 1: you work at it and you want to be the 2190 02:10:13,560 --> 02:10:17,680 Speaker 1: best at it, that's great. Some of us are fortunate 2191 02:10:17,800 --> 02:10:21,760 Speaker 1: and have evolved. Some of us are fortunate where we've 2192 02:10:21,800 --> 02:10:26,640 Speaker 1: had careers and been successful economically. But if you're a 2193 02:10:26,640 --> 02:10:29,840 Speaker 1: bus driver. That's that's honest work. Be the best bus 2194 02:10:29,880 --> 02:10:33,200 Speaker 1: driver if you're I mean, I'm not judgmental about stuff 2195 02:10:33,240 --> 02:10:37,280 Speaker 1: like that, because to me, what counts as human capital. 2196 02:10:37,800 --> 02:10:39,480 Speaker 1: And one of the things I'm proud of st the 2197 02:10:39,560 --> 02:10:43,920 Speaker 1: ticketmaster is and Larry will tell you this. I took 2198 02:10:43,960 --> 02:10:46,960 Speaker 1: fifty people who started with me between thirty and fifty grand. 2199 02:10:47,440 --> 02:10:49,600 Speaker 1: They didn't go to the best colleges. I didn't have 2200 02:10:49,600 --> 02:10:52,160 Speaker 1: an NBA in the company for ten years. I made 2201 02:10:52,240 --> 02:10:56,839 Speaker 1: him all millionaires. That to me, because they all became 2202 02:10:57,240 --> 02:11:00,640 Speaker 1: more than they thought they would be. And these the stories, 2203 02:11:00,920 --> 02:11:03,240 Speaker 1: you know, you got me in this place that I'm 2204 02:11:03,240 --> 02:11:05,200 Speaker 1: not gonna be in a newspaper article that I'm not 2205 02:11:05,240 --> 02:11:07,680 Speaker 1: going to talk about because I'm too busy being Darth Vader. 2206 02:11:07,760 --> 02:11:13,120 Speaker 1: And I think people pay. The loyalty I got was 2207 02:11:13,200 --> 02:11:17,280 Speaker 1: because of the loyalty I gave and I protected my people. 2208 02:11:17,960 --> 02:11:19,760 Speaker 1: And there was a story I won't tell you the 2209 02:11:19,800 --> 02:11:22,240 Speaker 1: building where a guy walked into my office and he 2210 02:11:22,280 --> 02:11:25,440 Speaker 1: was almost crying, and I said, why are you crying? 2211 02:11:25,480 --> 02:11:27,600 Speaker 1: He said, because so and so beat me up. And 2212 02:11:27,640 --> 02:11:30,040 Speaker 1: he said, you sold him a bill of goods. And 2213 02:11:30,080 --> 02:11:32,080 Speaker 1: I called the guy who ran the building, and I 2214 02:11:32,120 --> 02:11:33,800 Speaker 1: went to see him the next day and I threw 2215 02:11:33,800 --> 02:11:36,120 Speaker 1: the contract on the table. I said, rip it up. 2216 02:11:37,800 --> 02:11:40,600 Speaker 1: You can't beat up my people. You can beat me up, 2217 02:11:40,680 --> 02:11:42,640 Speaker 1: you can't beat them up. And if you think I 2218 02:11:42,680 --> 02:11:44,760 Speaker 1: sold you a bill of goods, I'll stay till you 2219 02:11:44,800 --> 02:11:47,840 Speaker 1: find another ticket company. But you cannot behave like that 2220 02:11:47,920 --> 02:11:51,600 Speaker 1: because I won't tolerate it. And you know, he said, no, 2221 02:11:51,640 --> 02:11:54,600 Speaker 1: I'm trying to get you another client. But the point was. 2222 02:11:55,600 --> 02:12:00,320 Speaker 1: The point was people saw I stood up for them, 2223 02:12:00,360 --> 02:12:04,880 Speaker 1: and when you stand up for people, they will do 2224 02:12:04,960 --> 02:12:08,200 Speaker 1: amazing things for you if you give them loyalty. You know. 2225 02:12:08,240 --> 02:12:09,880 Speaker 1: It's like I spoke to a group of people and 2226 02:12:09,880 --> 02:12:13,080 Speaker 1: I said, your generation talks about quiet quitting. My generation 2227 02:12:13,160 --> 02:12:16,680 Speaker 1: talked about quiet firing. You gotta do your job. You 2228 02:12:16,760 --> 02:12:20,320 Speaker 1: need to show that you have ambition, otherwise ten years 2229 02:12:20,320 --> 02:12:23,560 Speaker 1: from now you'll be in the same place. I'm not 2230 02:12:23,720 --> 02:12:27,360 Speaker 1: known Fred. I think we're gonna leave it there for today. 2231 02:12:27,480 --> 02:12:30,640 Speaker 1: We could certainly go on and I would enjoy it, 2232 02:12:30,960 --> 02:12:34,120 Speaker 1: but I'm gonna give the audience a break. I want 2233 02:12:34,120 --> 02:12:36,520 Speaker 1: to thank you so much for being so honest and 2234 02:12:36,560 --> 02:12:39,920 Speaker 1: forthright and explaining all this to some people who don't 2235 02:12:39,920 --> 02:12:43,480 Speaker 1: want to hear it, but there you go. Well, let 2236 02:12:43,520 --> 02:12:46,400 Speaker 1: me say thank you for giving me the opportunity to 2237 02:12:46,440 --> 02:12:51,680 Speaker 1: do it um and let me answer the questions openly. 2238 02:12:51,960 --> 02:12:54,040 Speaker 1: And you know, after all these years, it's nice to 2239 02:12:54,040 --> 02:12:56,960 Speaker 1: put a face to the person, and you know, we 2240 02:12:57,120 --> 02:13:01,840 Speaker 1: both evolved and the truth is, you know, the truth is. 2241 02:13:02,320 --> 02:13:06,360 Speaker 1: Guess what, Let everybody live a long time, Let everybody 2242 02:13:06,360 --> 02:13:09,440 Speaker 1: be happy. I know that sounds kind of weird. And 2243 02:13:09,480 --> 02:13:11,640 Speaker 1: the answers, man, it's only a ticket. Can we just 2244 02:13:11,680 --> 02:13:15,000 Speaker 1: get on with life? I mean, really, it's a ticket. 2245 02:13:15,640 --> 02:13:20,800 Speaker 1: And it's like, it's so insane when you watch this stuff, 2246 02:13:21,600 --> 02:13:24,560 Speaker 1: and oh, I gotta I gotta share one anecdote with you, 2247 02:13:24,640 --> 02:13:27,520 Speaker 1: one more anecdote, which you love. So there was this 2248 02:13:27,600 --> 02:13:30,480 Speaker 1: class action lawsuit because we didn't get back service Georges. 2249 02:13:32,280 --> 02:13:34,400 Speaker 1: And there were two lawyers. I'm not gonna tell you 2250 02:13:34,440 --> 02:13:37,080 Speaker 1: where because you would know, you would know the situation. 2251 02:13:37,400 --> 02:13:39,920 Speaker 1: But we gave back the money. There's ten people in 2252 02:13:39,960 --> 02:13:42,680 Speaker 1: the room and I'm paying for everybody, you know, the building, 2253 02:13:43,040 --> 02:13:46,320 Speaker 1: the promoter, everybody's got lawyers. And these two guys go 2254 02:13:46,400 --> 02:13:49,720 Speaker 1: on for about fifteen minutes about how I basically ruined 2255 02:13:49,760 --> 02:13:52,960 Speaker 1: the world by not giving back service charges. So when 2256 02:13:53,000 --> 02:13:56,520 Speaker 1: they finished, I took a toy ambulance out of my 2257 02:13:56,600 --> 02:13:59,840 Speaker 1: pocket and I've rolled it down the conference table and 2258 02:14:00,000 --> 02:14:01,920 Speaker 1: they said, what's this and I said something for you 2259 02:14:01,960 --> 02:14:05,000 Speaker 1: to run behind. You guys are so full of crap 2260 02:14:05,120 --> 02:14:08,200 Speaker 1: it's unbelievable. They started screaming, and I said, tell you 2261 02:14:08,240 --> 02:14:11,280 Speaker 1: what I'm gonna do. Tell you what I'm gonna do. 2262 02:14:12,320 --> 02:14:14,480 Speaker 1: I'm gonna give a hundred thousand dollars to the school 2263 02:14:14,480 --> 02:14:19,880 Speaker 1: system grand the year for four years. You have exactly 2264 02:14:20,080 --> 02:14:23,200 Speaker 1: five minutes to take the deal, otherwise I'm gonna leave, 2265 02:14:23,320 --> 02:14:26,080 Speaker 1: in which case, all these lawyers you can go sue 2266 02:14:26,080 --> 02:14:27,880 Speaker 1: me and I'll just pay the money in legal fees. 2267 02:14:28,160 --> 02:14:31,560 Speaker 1: But here's the deal. Because I think you're such monumental asses. 2268 02:14:33,080 --> 02:14:35,320 Speaker 1: You can make the press conference that I gave the 2269 02:14:35,400 --> 02:14:37,600 Speaker 1: hundred grand, but you know what your fear is zero. 2270 02:14:38,400 --> 02:14:40,400 Speaker 1: You've got five minutes to accept it because I'm going 2271 02:14:40,400 --> 02:14:43,400 Speaker 1: back to l A. And they took the deal, Bob 2272 02:14:43,560 --> 02:14:48,680 Speaker 1: being thank you, Fred. Until next time, it's Bob left 2273 02:14:48,680 --> 02:14:49,000 Speaker 1: Sex