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Speaker 1: Pushkin.

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Speaker 2: The Baltimore based synthpop band Future Islands was first thrust

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Speaker 2: into the national spotlight in twenty fourteen after making their

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Speaker 2: TV debut on The Late Show with David Letterman. The

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Speaker 2: bands unassuming frontman Samuel t Herring, danced ecstatically around the stage,

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Speaker 2: seething with emotion. The performance quickly went viral, making it

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Speaker 2: one of Letterman's most memorable live appearances ever. At the

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Speaker 2: time of their big break, Future Islands had already released

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Speaker 2: three albums and been touring relentlessly for nearly a decade,

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Speaker 2: and while they would become one of the most prominent

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Speaker 2: bands on the festival circuit for the next several years,

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Speaker 2: Future Islands always managed to maintain a sense of unparalleled

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Speaker 2: raw vulnerability on stage, in part thanks to the deeply

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Speaker 2: confessional nature of Sam's songwriting and his stage presence. On

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Speaker 2: today's episode, Lea Rose talks to Future Island's lead singer,

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Speaker 2: Samuel t Harring about the band's latest album, People Who

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Speaker 2: Aren't There Anymore. Sam also describes the physical toll his

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Speaker 2: energetic performance style has taken on his body over the years,

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Speaker 2: and his long held gripe with guitar based music. This

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Speaker 2: is broken record liner notes for the Digital Age. I'm

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Speaker 2: justin Mitchman. Here's Lea Rose's conversation with Samuel t Herring.

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Speaker 3: When Future Islands started. What was important for you to

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Speaker 3: convey to audiences through your performance style?

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Speaker 4: Well, the beginning of Future Islands is a little strange

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Speaker 4: because the impetus for a beginning of the band was

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Speaker 4: a tour that we were supposed to have played as

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Speaker 4: our first band that we had forgotten about, and so

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Speaker 4: the impetus of the band was basically art Lord. Our

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Speaker 4: fourth member left at the end of two thousand and five,

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Speaker 4: and we kind of just didn't have a band for

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Speaker 4: four or five months, and I don't think me, William

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Speaker 4: and Garrett really even talked about what we were going

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Speaker 4: to do next. I think we were still kind of

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Speaker 4: sad and confused about what had happened because our other

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Speaker 4: member just like dipped town and was like, you know,

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Speaker 4: I'm not doing the band anymore, and we're like, well,

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Speaker 4: do we want to keep doing it without, you know,

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Speaker 4: our friend that's been here since the beginning. So and

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Speaker 4: then in January of two thousand and six, William got

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Speaker 4: an email that was basically like, Hey, how's that tour coming,

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Speaker 4: because William used to book all of our He booked

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Speaker 4: all the Art Lord shows, he booked the first like

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Speaker 4: four or five years of Future Islands as well, and

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Speaker 4: so yeah, so instead of you, basically William called me

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Speaker 4: and Garrett and was like, I was supposed to book

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Speaker 4: this tour and I forgot.

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Speaker 1: Do you guys? Do you guys want to start a

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Speaker 1: new band?

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Speaker 4: And so within like three weeks we wrote and recorded

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Speaker 4: five six song EP and then we went we did

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Speaker 4: a tour. I mean honestly, there was no thought process.

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Speaker 4: I mean that's kind of you know, even the roots

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Speaker 4: of art Lord, even though it was high concept, the

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Speaker 4: function was punk because we didn't own instruments, you know.

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Speaker 4: Williams guitar or Williams bass guitar was borrowed from a friend.

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Speaker 4: Like all the amps were borrowed. All the keyboards except

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Speaker 4: for one were we're like found at thrift stores or

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Speaker 4: borrowed from friends. So the mode was really you know,

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Speaker 4: eurosynth pop, but it was but we felt like punks.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we stunk and we played your living room, so

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Speaker 4: we were punks. And with Future Islands, it was it

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Speaker 4: started very much the same, you know, and at the

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Speaker 4: time I was I had really bad drug problems. I

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Speaker 4: was trying to get out of that, you know. Shortly

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Speaker 4: after Future Rounds began, I left town to get my

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Speaker 4: life together and get clean. So Future Islands just kind

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Speaker 4: of began with these songs. Garrett was kind of playing

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Speaker 4: solos for the first time. William's bass was going super fast,

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Speaker 4: and for the first time ever, I had kind of

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Speaker 4: a drum kit behind me that was creating this propulsive

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Speaker 4: It was a propulsive element in the music that we'd

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Speaker 4: never had before. Like before that, I was trying to

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Speaker 4: be the propulsive element through my movement, but it was

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Speaker 4: much more of a dance and a performance and a

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Speaker 4: bit of theater. But all of a sudden, I wasn't

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Speaker 4: the most you know, I wasn't the thing pushing it forward.

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Speaker 4: So I had to I had to figure out how

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Speaker 4: to match that energy of the drums. And then that

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Speaker 4: brought this whole other element of anger and angst, which

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Speaker 4: is a lot of things I was going through at

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Speaker 4: the time, fighting drug addiction and feeling really lost in

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Speaker 4: my life.

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Speaker 3: Were you on hard drugs like I was a.

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Speaker 4: Cocain It was like two two and a half years.

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Speaker 4: It was like a Gramma day habit. But yeah, I was.

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Speaker 4: I was a dealer and became a fiend and then yeah,

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Speaker 4: it was really really crazy stuff. It's crazy to think

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Speaker 4: about now how much that part of my life was.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I was selling weed when I was fourteen,

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Speaker 4: fifteen and up until I was twenty two, twenty three.

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Speaker 3: I was gonna ask you if you ever had like

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Speaker 3: a regular job, but I guess.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was a terrible drug dealer.

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Speaker 4: I was just like make sure everybody's got what they

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Speaker 4: need and I get high for free. But yeah, all

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Speaker 4: this stuff. You know, it's such a strange world to

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Speaker 4: think about, but you know, these are the things. This

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Speaker 4: is my life that I, you know, one time, was

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Speaker 4: very afraid to share that I'm very open with now

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Speaker 4: because I want people to know, like, yeah, there is

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Speaker 4: another side, and you know, and I've I've slipped many times,

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Speaker 4: you know, And that's part of it too, you know.

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Speaker 4: Part of it is saying like you don't say like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I used to be I used to have a problem.

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Speaker 4: You're like, no, I have a problem. I just don't.

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Speaker 4: I don't do it. You know, I have all the problems.

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Speaker 4: You know, I'm addicted to so many things.

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Speaker 1: And that that's part of it.

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Speaker 4: But that process of leaving town began with a conversation

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Speaker 4: with the guys to ask them if it was okay,

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Speaker 4: and they're like, yes, please, like we know that you

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Speaker 4: have a problem, please get go get help. But by

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Speaker 4: the time we got to Baltimore, you know, I finally

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Speaker 4: was starting to feel like myself again. I was with

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Speaker 4: my friends again, who's like lives I'd missed.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 4: That was when I think we decided to believe in

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Speaker 4: ourselves and go after a thing that in the past

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Speaker 4: it had been like, you know, maybe this this is

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Speaker 4: like really fun and people want to see us play,

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Speaker 4: so we'll go play some shows, to being like it's

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Speaker 4: time to go for it. And that's when we you know,

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Speaker 4: once two months after Garrett got to Baltimore, we went

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Speaker 4: on our first US tour and then just stayed on

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Speaker 4: tour for five years, almost five years. We played like

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Speaker 4: in that four and a half years, we played close

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Speaker 4: to eight hundred shows.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 4: And that's when the band grew, you know, from being

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Speaker 4: from playing you know, for peanuts and playing like five

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Speaker 4: and ten people at the beginning around the country to

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Speaker 4: to like making a living at the end. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 4: there was a time in our lives where we wanted

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Speaker 4: to you know that you think everybody's listening.

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Speaker 3: And when was that time? Was that like around the

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Speaker 3: time of the Letterman performance.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that was like twenty into twenty fourteen and fifteen

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Speaker 4: we really felt like, oh, people are finally care about

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Speaker 4: what we do, you know, our fourth album. You know,

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Speaker 4: we're all you know, we didn't expect to be a

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Speaker 4: spotlight band at that point, like we were. We had

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Speaker 4: gotten over the feelings and like had accepted that that

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Speaker 4: was never going to happen, and that was actually really

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Speaker 4: freeing to be like, Okay, cool, I guess nobody really

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Speaker 4: cares that much, but the audience cares. You know, We've

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Speaker 4: built our own We've built our own audience through our

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Speaker 4: own hard work, and then all of a sudden we

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Speaker 4: were in the spotlight and that really affected us in

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Speaker 4: it did make us think about who the audience was

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Speaker 4: and writing for that perceived audience. And then we created

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Speaker 4: an album that we just kind of rushed and I

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Speaker 4: don't think took the proper time, but I think we

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Speaker 4: were also so exhausted. Yeah, we were just lost. So

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Speaker 4: there was that period where you said, oh, maybe people care, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and let's write for them, and maybe this will take

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Speaker 4: us to another step up and then you kind of

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Speaker 4: get to that step. I wrote a line in a

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Speaker 4: rap song that came out in twenty nineteen, the album

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Speaker 4: of by Buddy Kinney Siegel, and I said, uh, basically like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: there's no air at the top, and it's hard to

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Speaker 4: breathe when your breath is something you lost. And it's

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Speaker 4: just like that idea of like I wanted all of this,

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Speaker 4: I did all of this, I got to the top

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Speaker 4: and I couldn't breathe, and then you know, the years

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Speaker 4: after that is accepting like I don't want to be

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Speaker 4: up there struggling. I want to be at a place

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Speaker 4: where I feel comfortable and I can be the artists

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Speaker 4: that I set out to be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, how is that different than what you thought it

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Speaker 3: would be?

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Speaker 4: Like, I think one of the things that I realized

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Speaker 4: is that before we have the really the national exposure,

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Speaker 4: I kind of perceived it as when it gets bigger,

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Speaker 4: it's easier, but it gets a lot harder. It takes work,

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Speaker 4: and I think it made me really respect the people that.

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Speaker 1: Can do it for so long and.

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Speaker 4: Can do it at that reach a certain level because

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Speaker 4: I kind of thought, oh, yeah, you just get bigger

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Speaker 4: and then you have a bigger team, and then they

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Speaker 4: just figure out, they make all the decisions and you

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Speaker 4: just get to walk out on stage and you know,

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Speaker 4: maybe that's what like bon Jovi gets to do. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: just fly in and play the show and go home again,

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Speaker 4: fly out. But it's a lot of jumping through hoops,

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Speaker 4: it's a lot of kissing the ring. You have to

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Speaker 4: be like more humble, you have to play the game,

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Speaker 4: and it's it's all part of the process of getting

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Speaker 4: that more and more exposure. And that just wasn't who

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Speaker 4: we were. And I think we've just done it too long.

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Speaker 4: I mean, the biggest thing, you know, I've always had

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Speaker 4: kind of a social anxieties, but through that process they

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Speaker 4: really got heightened. And as my life has gone on

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Speaker 4: since that point, my social anxieties have gotten worse. Like

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Speaker 4: I'm learning how to try to feel more comfortable and

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Speaker 4: deal with anxiety and soothe myself and these kinds of

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Speaker 4: things you learn about. But but it is like I

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Speaker 4: didn't used to feel as out of place as I

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Speaker 4: do now. That's part of why I'm like in a

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Speaker 4: new city is because I feel a freedom in a

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Speaker 4: new place, like I don't feel I feel less judged,

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Speaker 4: I feel anonymous. Yeah, you know, and that feels good.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting to me that you would say you have

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Speaker 3: social anxiety when your performances are so they feel so

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Speaker 3: vulnerable and you feel so open and you're so transparent

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Speaker 3: with what you're feeling, and you're crying, you're growling, you're

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Speaker 3: shaking your fist at the sky, and you're completely wide

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Speaker 3: open at that point. Yes, So how are you able

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Speaker 3: to do that if you also have the other side

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Speaker 3: of you, which can feel scared.

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Speaker 4: Well, there's a difference between being in a crowd and

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Speaker 4: being in front of a crowd. There's power that comes

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Speaker 4: with a microphone in a stage when you're in a

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Speaker 4: group of people, or entering into a group of people,

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Speaker 4: especially if you're if you don't feel like you have

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Speaker 4: a place, or you are searching for a friend, you know,

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Speaker 4: somebody to talk to, or you know you're alone, even

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Speaker 4: like going to you know, like I have like anxiety

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Speaker 4: going to like a friend's house for like a Christmas

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Speaker 4: party or something, you know, And that's really sad because

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Speaker 4: then you very quickly learn like oh yeah, these are

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Speaker 4: all my friends. I don't have anything to be worried about.

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Speaker 4: But so when you're entering into a space where you're

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Speaker 4: an anonymous person, you don't get to you don't get

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Speaker 4: to like express who you are. You're kind of you're

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Speaker 4: scene for who you are on the outside. There's none

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Speaker 4: of who you are on the inside. You're only viewed

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Speaker 4: by people's perceptions. When you're on stage, you get to

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Speaker 4: express who you are. You get to share who you are,

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Speaker 4: and you get to prove to people who you are. Like,

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Speaker 4: my thing is that I've always felt like I didn't

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Speaker 4: belong and because of that, I felt like an underdog

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Speaker 4: who had to prove themselves. You know, that's the story

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Speaker 4: of Future Islands, That's the story of me. Is like

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Speaker 4: I have something to prove that I belong, that I'm

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Speaker 4: worth a damn, that I have meaning in this world.

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Speaker 4: And that's not for me to just prove to other people.

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Speaker 4: It's for me to prove to myself and for me

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Speaker 4: to share that you can feel this way but still

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Speaker 4: make a place for yourself in this world and that

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Speaker 4: you're not alone. So you know that that's the difference

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Speaker 4: between being the person watching the show and the person

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Speaker 4: you know being the show is now I have something

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Speaker 4: to tell you. Yeah, I've always loved the stage because

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Speaker 4: it allows me to express myself and feel like that

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Speaker 4: allows people to see me for who I am. Whether

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Speaker 4: or not they like that is not my concern. It's

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Speaker 4: really about I mean, you want people to like what

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Speaker 4: you do. But it is like, now I've at least

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Speaker 4: expressed who I am, and that makes me feel really courageous.

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Speaker 4: You know, it makes me feel brave. I don't know,

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Speaker 4: it makes me feel free. It is so it is

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Speaker 4: such a strange paradox, Like I understand so many of

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Speaker 4: these things are like my weaknesses that I've turned into strengths.

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Speaker 3: It strikes me when I see you on stage, it

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Speaker 3: strikes me that like, you're doing exactly what you're supposed

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Speaker 3: to be doing, Like it feels so authentic and for

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Speaker 3: somebody to be able to find that feels really really special.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And it also.

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Speaker 3: Strikes me that, like, why aren't more people who are

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Speaker 3: lead singers or front people, Like why aren't they doing that?

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Speaker 3: Like I love that you give it your all and

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Speaker 3: you like think about it from the perspective of an entertainer,

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Speaker 3: and like why don't more people do that.

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Speaker 4: Well, the entertainment is it's the hook, you know, Yes,

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Speaker 4: and you got to have a hook. You got to

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Speaker 4: have something that catches people. And you know, that's also

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Speaker 4: comes into the songwriting and how you choose to what

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Speaker 4: you choose to share, and how you choose to share.

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Speaker 4: But for me, the performance is a way to express

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Speaker 4: without words because words get lost. But then so you know,

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Speaker 4: you show the story through your emotions or through actions.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, the dance. The dance is a hook.

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Speaker 4: It's to pull people in so that they don't look away,

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Speaker 4: and then you hit with truth and you hit them

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Speaker 4: with emotion, and that's important. But you know, I believe,

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Speaker 4: I mean, there's definitely front people that I watch and

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Speaker 4: I say, do something, But I really believe that it

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Speaker 4: doesn't matter how you perform if you're bringing something that's honest,

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Speaker 4: because my performance comes from an honest expression of emotion

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Speaker 4: in a writing process. So then when I come on

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Speaker 4: stage and I have to share something that's very personal

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Speaker 4: for the first time and the second time the third time,

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Speaker 4: things that I'm still becoming comfortable with myself. To share

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Speaker 4: that with people is to feel electricity shooting through your body.

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Speaker 4: To feel the wall of emotions behind your eyes. It's

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Speaker 4: to feel like life coursing. And I mean that that's

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Speaker 4: for me. But I believe that if there's an artist

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Speaker 4: who sits at a piano and they're just gonna, like

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Speaker 4: I've seen it before, if they write an on a song,

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Speaker 4: it doesn't matter. They don't have to dance and move around.

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Speaker 4: They just have to play that song and you're gonna

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Speaker 4: feel that electricity. You're gonna feel the hair stand up

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Speaker 4: on your arms. You know, you're gonna feel the emotion

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Speaker 4: because the song is honest. So that's always my goal

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Speaker 4: is it's reaching a level of truth so that it's

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Speaker 4: not dishonest on stage. And I don't feel like I'm

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Speaker 4: that I got to put on a show, you know

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Speaker 4: what I mean, Like you want to feel, you know,

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Speaker 4: because there are times where you go out on stage

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Speaker 4: and you're like you're just tired from the road and

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Speaker 4: you feel disconnected and you do have to you do

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Speaker 4: put on the show. I'm great at those shows too,

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Speaker 4: But the but the truly transcendental shows are the ones

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Speaker 4: like you're just like really connecting with the original spirit

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Speaker 4: of the song. You're seeing the faces of the people

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Speaker 4: that are gone, like like you're walking into those rooms,

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Speaker 4: you're smelling those smells.

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Speaker 1: So I mean my yeah, my performance is a hope.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 4: It's like I hope that I can connect with the

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Speaker 4: muse and and share share like some real truth and

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Speaker 4: emotion with people. But uh, but yeah I have If

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Speaker 4: you're out there and you're a singer who is afraid

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Speaker 4: of being open on stage, my my thing that I

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Speaker 4: have a personal I have a personal trick that I

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Speaker 4: do for those times when I go on stage. And

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Speaker 4: it's funny because I I will always watch singers to

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Speaker 4: see their body language, and you can you can see

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Speaker 4: the people that are that are closed off because there

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Speaker 4: they literally hunched their shoulders, they close themselves with them

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Speaker 4: with a mic stand and all of this. But if

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Speaker 4: I go out on stage and after a couple songs,

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Speaker 4: I feel like I'm not connecting with the audience or

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Speaker 4: the audience is not connecting with me, then I actually

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Speaker 4: like pull my shoulders back, stand up straight, and slowly

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Speaker 4: open my arms completely to the audience, which they're very

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Speaker 4: confused about. They don't know what's happening. They just see

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Speaker 4: it's it's the it's the actual physical opening up for

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Speaker 4: whatever you have for me. I am here, I am

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Speaker 4: completely open, and you feel the judgment, you feel the fear,

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Speaker 4: and you say, I don't I don't care, you know,

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Speaker 4: But it's it's that it's a literal opening of my

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Speaker 4: body that's always helped me to to like reconnect with

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Speaker 4: the feeling why am I here? And but plus, you know,

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Speaker 4: it just confuses the hell out of people and then

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Speaker 4: you and then you get them.

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Speaker 3: Is it purposeful that the rest of the band is

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Speaker 3: just like really like looking down, disconnected, like looks like

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Speaker 3: they couldn't give a shit about you, like totally disinterested.

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Speaker 3: Is that on purpose?

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Speaker 4: It might be now, but I don't think it was originally.

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Speaker 4: Garrett's always been really shy. You know, when me and

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Speaker 4: Garrett were first friends, he Garrett barely spoke like he

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Speaker 4: was He was so quiet that a lot of our

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Speaker 4: conversations were really it was just like me da da

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Speaker 4: da da da da da da da.

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Speaker 1: And Garrett like yep, like fuck this, fuck that, fuck this, yep.

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Speaker 4: And and you know, Garrett's different now, he's grown up

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Speaker 4: a lot and changed. But that's part of when I

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Speaker 4: talk about trying to channel, trying to speak for the music,

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Speaker 4: is also giving a voice to my friends. They really

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Speaker 4: allow me to go into these really honest places about

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Speaker 4: my own life and they stand behind it. That's also

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Speaker 4: why I won't sing about certain things because it also

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Speaker 4: is representative of them. Does that make sense? Like within

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Speaker 4: my rap work, I sing a lot more about like

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Speaker 4: drug addiction and and things like that, because because that's

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Speaker 4: a place where I feel free to express myself about

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Speaker 4: these things that maybe they don't, you know, want their

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Speaker 4: parents to hear.

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Speaker 3: Or Yeah, when you write a new song, do you

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Speaker 3: bring the lyrics to them? How do you share the

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Speaker 3: song with them? And do you need them to sign

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Speaker 3: off in a way or is it just known that

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Speaker 3: like you handle lyrics, they handle music.

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Speaker 4: I used to be more hands off with them about

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Speaker 4: my lyrics. I used to be like, do not criticize

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Speaker 4: or say anything. But I'm a lot more open to

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Speaker 4: it now, and so when I send demos, so usually

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Speaker 4: what happens is whether I'm in studio with them and

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Speaker 4: I make a recording on my computer or my phone

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Speaker 4: or in the old days, I used to like carry

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Speaker 4: around a big brick conference table cassette recorder and I

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Speaker 4: come home and write over tapes or off my computer

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Speaker 4: and then I take that or or if Garrett sends

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Speaker 4: me an idea or William sends me an idea, I

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Speaker 4: usually demo kind of on what we're talking through right

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Speaker 4: now as best I can, and then I send to

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Speaker 4: them Mike, William, Garrett, I send them the song and

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Speaker 4: the lyrics. It has to be a safe space. You know,

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Speaker 4: there is egos involved when you are in a band,

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Speaker 4: and these are things you navigate over time and you

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Speaker 4: like learn to recommunicate again. These are like marriages. You know,

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Speaker 4: you got to go on dates. Man, got to go

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Speaker 4: on dates, keep the spark alive. Yeah, like these things

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Speaker 4: are important just to reconnect and yeah, and you know,

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Speaker 4: I know that they're in the past.

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Speaker 1: I've was like, do you have any suggestions? Like, screw that.

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Speaker 1: I don't like that suggestion.

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Speaker 4: But now I'm trying to be more, you know, and

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Speaker 4: all parts of my life like really taking the time

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Speaker 4: to listen to other people's people's thoughts and because it's

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Speaker 4: their band too, you know, because there's that part of

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Speaker 4: me in the past. It was just like, well, this

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Speaker 4: is my life that I'm singing about, so I know best.

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Speaker 4: And then you're like, yeah, but everybody's got to play it,

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Speaker 4: and everybody's got to stand behind it.

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Speaker 2: We're going to take a quick break and then come

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Speaker 2: back with more from Lea Rose and Samuel t Hering.

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Speaker 2: We're back with Samuel t Hering.

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Speaker 3: How long has the album been finished? Like, does it

403
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Speaker 3: feel like it's like an ancient piece of work at

404
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Speaker 3: this point or does it still feel fresh?

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Speaker 4: I would say because of the emotions that were captured

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Speaker 4: on the back half of songs that were written, it

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Speaker 4: feels fresh, like it's it's one of those things where

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Speaker 4: it's still revealing itself because you know, sometimes especially if

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Speaker 4: you look at even our last album, there was a

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Speaker 4: lot of reflection within a new relationship. You know, the

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Speaker 4: reflection was, oh, there was a lot of really bad

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Speaker 4: things that happened in that once you're in a healthy place.

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Speaker 4: So then this album kind of picks up in the

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Speaker 4: middle of the pandemic, separated from that person, and then

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Speaker 4: ultimately the first seven songs were written through through the pandemic.

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Speaker 4: And you know, my ex was was in Sweden and

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Speaker 4: I was unable to get to her. So a lot

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Speaker 4: of this distance, which is also a big part of

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Speaker 4: our work through touring, you know, saying a lot about distance.

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Speaker 3: I know, I feel for you. Man, it's like, how

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Speaker 3: do you do that? Yeah, Like, how can you maintain

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Speaker 3: a relationship on the road all the time. It seems

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Speaker 3: nearly impossible.

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Speaker 4: Well, I'm a very good example of that.

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Speaker 1: You can't. But then you know, there are is successful

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Speaker 1: within that too.

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Speaker 4: You know, Garrett has a really beautiful family and and

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Speaker 4: you know, and also you know, me and Garrett are

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Speaker 4: very different people.

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Speaker 1: I think.

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Speaker 4: I think that's the thing you find too, is why

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Speaker 4: things work and why things don't work. The people we choose,

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Speaker 4: why we choose the people we choose, why they choose us,

434
00:24:27,476 --> 00:24:29,636
Speaker 4: you know, and these kinds of things that go deeper

435
00:24:29,636 --> 00:24:31,836
Speaker 4: to the root of like who we are as humans.

436
00:24:31,876 --> 00:24:34,636
Speaker 4: But since the first half of the album was written

437
00:24:35,236 --> 00:24:38,276
Speaker 4: before a breakup, and then the back half was written,

438
00:24:38,796 --> 00:24:41,876
Speaker 4: you know, I finally got back to Sweden, I finally

439
00:24:41,876 --> 00:24:46,356
Speaker 4: got my residency card I had an apartment with this person,

440
00:24:46,516 --> 00:24:50,196
Speaker 4: and then I got back and we just it was over,

441
00:24:50,396 --> 00:24:54,996
Speaker 4: you know, like the feelings were the thing that we're gone.

442
00:24:55,236 --> 00:24:59,036
Speaker 4: So then all of a sudden, I'm rushed into this

443
00:24:59,156 --> 00:25:02,636
Speaker 4: breakup which I did not expect or foresee, And those

444
00:25:02,636 --> 00:25:05,876
Speaker 4: songs came very quickly, so as opposed to in the past,

445
00:25:05,916 --> 00:25:08,396
Speaker 4: I could kind of you know, these songs are coming

446
00:25:08,436 --> 00:25:12,636
Speaker 4: with the reflection or an understanding, like over time or

447
00:25:12,676 --> 00:25:15,676
Speaker 4: like this is where I am at now. The first

448
00:25:15,716 --> 00:25:19,796
Speaker 4: four songs were written in the flash and bang of

449
00:25:21,156 --> 00:25:25,196
Speaker 4: this breakup and my whole life feeling like it was.

450
00:25:25,876 --> 00:25:28,796
Speaker 4: You know, you have an idea of where you're going

451
00:25:28,956 --> 00:25:32,436
Speaker 4: and then it's kind of all taken away from you.

452
00:25:32,436 --> 00:25:32,916
Speaker 1: You don't.

453
00:25:33,436 --> 00:25:37,916
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just felt completely upended and confused. And that's

454
00:25:38,756 --> 00:25:41,676
Speaker 4: scary when you're any age.

455
00:25:41,836 --> 00:25:43,876
Speaker 3: You know, is there ever a part of you when

456
00:25:43,876 --> 00:25:46,716
Speaker 3: you're going through something like that and it's maybe becoming

457
00:25:46,756 --> 00:25:50,756
Speaker 3: clear like Okay, this relationship is ending. Is there like

458
00:25:50,836 --> 00:25:53,636
Speaker 3: a small part of you that's like, ooh, the silver

459
00:25:53,756 --> 00:25:56,956
Speaker 3: lining is I'm going to get great material from this.

460
00:25:57,076 --> 00:25:59,396
Speaker 3: I'm going to get great songs from this situation.

461
00:26:00,596 --> 00:26:01,596
Speaker 1: Well that's what you.

462
00:26:01,796 --> 00:26:06,156
Speaker 4: Tell everyone to hide your own emotions, you know. That's

463
00:26:06,236 --> 00:26:08,236
Speaker 4: like the joke that I would make for years and

464
00:26:08,316 --> 00:26:10,596
Speaker 4: years and years of my life, and then I did that.

465
00:26:10,876 --> 00:26:13,956
Speaker 4: I remember I was, you know, like a bachelor party

466
00:26:13,996 --> 00:26:15,916
Speaker 4: for Garrett when he got married a few years ago,

467
00:26:16,396 --> 00:26:18,876
Speaker 4: five six years ago, and you know, we ran in

468
00:26:18,916 --> 00:26:20,476
Speaker 4: a cabin just out in the woods with a group

469
00:26:20,556 --> 00:26:23,276
Speaker 4: of friends and it was a really nice time. One night,

470
00:26:23,316 --> 00:26:26,196
Speaker 4: we ate some mushrooms and I'm like, I'm like staring

471
00:26:26,236 --> 00:26:29,876
Speaker 4: at a tree with Dan Deacon, just like that tree

472
00:26:29,956 --> 00:26:36,316
Speaker 4: is amazing, and talking to him about about this recent

473
00:26:36,476 --> 00:26:40,836
Speaker 4: split with someone, you know, and kind of the realization

474
00:26:40,956 --> 00:26:44,036
Speaker 4: that I, you know, I had this very short, short

475
00:26:44,076 --> 00:26:46,636
Speaker 4: relationship with a person at a time when we were

476
00:26:46,676 --> 00:26:48,876
Speaker 4: finishing our fifth album, The Far Field, or we were

477
00:26:48,916 --> 00:26:51,796
Speaker 4: working on our fifth album, The Far Field, and I

478
00:26:51,876 --> 00:26:53,596
Speaker 4: was very devoid of emotion at that time, and I

479
00:26:53,596 --> 00:26:54,796
Speaker 4: didn't have anything to write about.

480
00:26:54,916 --> 00:26:55,956
Speaker 1: I've just been on the road.

481
00:26:55,796 --> 00:26:59,676
Speaker 4: For three years straight and I was destabilized just because

482
00:26:59,716 --> 00:27:02,276
Speaker 4: the way my life was. But I told Dan about

483
00:27:02,316 --> 00:27:05,196
Speaker 4: this thing, going through this breakup, and you know, but

484
00:27:05,236 --> 00:27:07,516
Speaker 4: at least I'm going to get some I'm gonna get

485
00:27:07,556 --> 00:27:08,836
Speaker 4: some juicy songs out of it.

486
00:27:08,876 --> 00:27:10,916
Speaker 1: And did I like mind that thing?

487
00:27:11,036 --> 00:27:12,516
Speaker 4: And then it's like, oh, yeah, I got into a

488
00:27:12,556 --> 00:27:14,516
Speaker 4: relationship with a person that I really had nothing in

489
00:27:14,556 --> 00:27:17,996
Speaker 4: common with other than we were attracted to one another.

490
00:27:18,396 --> 00:27:20,756
Speaker 4: Because I knew that it would fail. There was no

491
00:27:20,876 --> 00:27:23,716
Speaker 4: way this thing was actually going to work, and then

492
00:27:23,796 --> 00:27:28,036
Speaker 4: I could take from it and Dan. But what Dan

493
00:27:28,116 --> 00:27:30,836
Speaker 4: said to me was just like I basically looked at

494
00:27:30,836 --> 00:27:33,196
Speaker 4: me and cried and said, I don't like to see

495
00:27:33,196 --> 00:27:35,276
Speaker 4: you hurting. I don't like to see you doing this.

496
00:27:35,676 --> 00:27:37,436
Speaker 4: I feel like you're doing this to yourself.

497
00:27:37,516 --> 00:27:41,396
Speaker 1: And it was a very emotional moment. That moment made

498
00:27:41,436 --> 00:27:42,236
Speaker 1: me change the.

499
00:27:42,196 --> 00:27:45,876
Speaker 4: Way I made that joke, because it wasn't a joke, Like,

500
00:27:45,916 --> 00:27:47,956
Speaker 4: if you really look at that on the surf, what

501
00:27:48,116 --> 00:27:51,556
Speaker 4: the truth of that is pretty actually disgusting. I mean,

502
00:27:51,596 --> 00:27:53,796
Speaker 4: you know, of course this is a mutual attraction between people,

503
00:27:53,836 --> 00:27:56,196
Speaker 4: but you're just like, yeah, I shouldn't even been there,

504
00:27:56,316 --> 00:27:58,396
Speaker 4: Like I shouldn't have done this. I shouldn't have like

505
00:27:58,436 --> 00:28:01,036
Speaker 4: waste my time or somebody else's time. I shouldn't like

506
00:28:01,476 --> 00:28:04,236
Speaker 4: be making light of art. And that that's one of

507
00:28:04,316 --> 00:28:06,236
Speaker 4: the reasons that I have issues with that record is

508
00:28:06,276 --> 00:28:09,396
Speaker 4: that I feel that I was I was kind of

509
00:28:09,476 --> 00:28:13,396
Speaker 4: empty that in those years after the success of Singles,

510
00:28:13,516 --> 00:28:20,276
Speaker 4: I was our fourth album and I felt really empty

511
00:28:20,436 --> 00:28:23,356
Speaker 4: and lost and confused about where I was. I used

512
00:28:23,356 --> 00:28:26,036
Speaker 4: to be so sure of myself as an artist and

513
00:28:26,196 --> 00:28:28,276
Speaker 4: what I had to give and why it was important

514
00:28:28,316 --> 00:28:31,796
Speaker 4: to give, but what I missed. The thing that I

515
00:28:31,956 --> 00:28:35,276
Speaker 4: was also not doing was saving anything for myself, Like

516
00:28:35,316 --> 00:28:38,876
Speaker 4: I was just giving. I was just giving it all

517
00:28:38,876 --> 00:28:41,876
Speaker 4: away and not looking.

518
00:28:41,956 --> 00:28:43,076
Speaker 1: And that's what Dan was saying.

519
00:28:43,116 --> 00:28:46,476
Speaker 4: I wasn't looking out for my own emotions. Was I

520
00:28:46,556 --> 00:28:49,756
Speaker 4: was giving and I was I was looking for failure

521
00:28:49,916 --> 00:28:53,276
Speaker 4: so that I could, you know, idealistically get through their

522
00:28:53,356 --> 00:28:56,116
Speaker 4: issues in their lives. But I wasn't actually protecting myself.

523
00:28:56,156 --> 00:28:59,716
Speaker 4: I wasn't keeping anything for myself. There was and there's

524
00:28:59,716 --> 00:29:05,196
Speaker 4: still a part of me now that does fear that

525
00:29:05,276 --> 00:29:10,916
Speaker 4: it's time to stop sharing about my romantic life. And

526
00:29:10,956 --> 00:29:13,476
Speaker 4: that becomes fearful because you're like, well, that's kind of

527
00:29:14,356 --> 00:29:17,236
Speaker 4: it's kind of the story of our albums, you know, yeah,

528
00:29:17,236 --> 00:29:23,836
Speaker 4: Like the albums have become this chronicle of my life,

529
00:29:24,396 --> 00:29:28,876
Speaker 4: and I fear. I don't think it's really hard to

530
00:29:28,916 --> 00:29:31,876
Speaker 4: shut the faucet when it's open, you know, Yeah, I mean.

531
00:29:31,756 --> 00:29:34,796
Speaker 3: But also, like would that make a difference for you personally?

532
00:29:34,836 --> 00:29:36,476
Speaker 3: Do you think you would be able to reach a

533
00:29:36,556 --> 00:29:40,876
Speaker 3: point with someone that would be like unchartered territory if

534
00:29:40,916 --> 00:29:44,156
Speaker 3: you're not so open about what you're going through in

535
00:29:44,196 --> 00:29:48,396
Speaker 3: your experience, what would you actually achieve do you think

536
00:29:48,796 --> 00:29:49,836
Speaker 3: by not sharing so.

537
00:29:49,876 --> 00:29:55,636
Speaker 4: Much, no idea and it's almost like a challenge.

538
00:29:55,276 --> 00:29:57,796
Speaker 3: Maybe, just like I'm going to try something different because

539
00:29:57,836 --> 00:30:01,396
Speaker 3: what I've been doing hasn't been working. It's not serving me,

540
00:30:01,516 --> 00:30:02,156
Speaker 3: is it that.

541
00:30:02,236 --> 00:30:05,636
Speaker 4: Sort of Well, it's also you know, the other thing

542
00:30:05,636 --> 00:30:07,476
Speaker 4: that happened when I got back from Sweden was that

543
00:30:07,556 --> 00:30:10,436
Speaker 4: I went to therapy for the first time, and in

544
00:30:10,516 --> 00:30:12,916
Speaker 4: doing that, you realize, you know it, well, it was

545
00:30:13,956 --> 00:30:17,036
Speaker 4: I went because I was terrified of spiraling out of

546
00:30:17,076 --> 00:30:20,796
Speaker 4: control into a place that I've been before, you know,

547
00:30:20,916 --> 00:30:26,476
Speaker 4: a substance abuse type substance abuse, you know, just like

548
00:30:26,636 --> 00:30:29,596
Speaker 4: too much sex, too much drinking, too much drugs. I

549
00:30:29,636 --> 00:30:31,756
Speaker 4: was like, I'm not that person anymore. I don't want

550
00:30:31,756 --> 00:30:34,316
Speaker 4: to be that person anymore, you know. Like I was

551
00:30:34,356 --> 00:30:37,756
Speaker 4: so happy when I was in a relationship for years

552
00:30:37,756 --> 00:30:40,556
Speaker 4: with someone who I really cared about and thought that

553
00:30:40,676 --> 00:30:43,436
Speaker 4: was my future because I didn't have to go back

554
00:30:43,476 --> 00:30:46,076
Speaker 4: to those places of emptiness, like I finally had somebody

555
00:30:46,076 --> 00:30:48,156
Speaker 4: to share with. And in getting out of that, I

556
00:30:48,196 --> 00:30:50,596
Speaker 4: was like, I don't want to go back there, right,

557
00:30:50,676 --> 00:30:52,196
Speaker 4: I don't want to be at that place where I

558
00:30:52,196 --> 00:30:54,516
Speaker 4: was in twenty seventeen, to twenty eighteen, where I felt

559
00:30:54,916 --> 00:30:58,356
Speaker 4: really empty. I want to continue this feeling of feeling

560
00:30:58,356 --> 00:31:02,236
Speaker 4: like I'm on a positive path for myself and looking

561
00:31:02,236 --> 00:31:05,916
Speaker 4: out for myself, because so often, especially within relationships, I

562
00:31:05,956 --> 00:31:08,196
Speaker 4: look out for the other person and I don't look

563
00:31:08,236 --> 00:31:10,516
Speaker 4: out for myself, which is actually more of a burden,

564
00:31:10,796 --> 00:31:13,716
Speaker 4: as I would find through therapy, is more of a

565
00:31:13,716 --> 00:31:18,236
Speaker 4: burden on that person. But through that process of they

566
00:31:18,316 --> 00:31:21,116
Speaker 4: just really just reflect me onto me so I can

567
00:31:21,156 --> 00:31:24,396
Speaker 4: see me, and it made me see that, Okay, I

568
00:31:24,516 --> 00:31:29,716
Speaker 4: write these songs about these relationships, they're cycling like I'm

569
00:31:29,756 --> 00:31:31,556
Speaker 4: writing a song that I could have written about the

570
00:31:31,596 --> 00:31:33,156
Speaker 4: same relationship.

571
00:31:32,716 --> 00:31:33,476
Speaker 1: Eight years ago.

572
00:31:34,236 --> 00:31:38,596
Speaker 4: Yeah. I don't think the problem is the people. There's

573
00:31:38,636 --> 00:31:40,996
Speaker 4: something else that needs to be broken in this process,

574
00:31:41,116 --> 00:31:47,076
Speaker 4: you know, there's more to explore within myself to illuminate

575
00:31:47,116 --> 00:31:47,756
Speaker 4: something deeper.

576
00:31:47,956 --> 00:31:50,796
Speaker 1: Like I saw a YouTube.

577
00:31:50,476 --> 00:31:53,476
Speaker 4: Comment a couple maybe two or three months ago on

578
00:31:53,516 --> 00:31:55,116
Speaker 4: a new song of ours, and the guy was just like,

579
00:31:55,436 --> 00:31:59,476
Speaker 4: I wish this guy would stop singing about love because.

580
00:31:59,156 --> 00:32:02,476
Speaker 1: Some of us have never had love and will never

581
00:32:02,636 --> 00:32:06,036
Speaker 1: have love. We'll be alone forever. And I was just like, bro,

582
00:32:07,036 --> 00:32:08,476
Speaker 1: please don't feel that way.

583
00:32:08,636 --> 00:32:12,396
Speaker 4: It's kinda be okay, and maybe really sad that, but

584
00:32:12,476 --> 00:32:15,876
Speaker 4: it also was like, okay, I guess there actually are

585
00:32:15,956 --> 00:32:18,556
Speaker 4: people that don't, you know, because for me, I'm always

586
00:32:18,596 --> 00:32:22,596
Speaker 4: trying to find a universal way to sing about all

587
00:32:22,836 --> 00:32:24,156
Speaker 4: all manners of feelings.

588
00:32:24,396 --> 00:32:27,516
Speaker 3: How much do you think about your perceived audience when

589
00:32:27,556 --> 00:32:28,116
Speaker 3: you're writing.

590
00:32:29,036 --> 00:32:29,916
Speaker 1: Not too much.

591
00:32:30,996 --> 00:32:33,476
Speaker 4: I mean, of course I think about them. But if

592
00:32:33,476 --> 00:32:37,076
Speaker 4: it's a good song that good songs just write themselves,

593
00:32:37,476 --> 00:32:39,916
Speaker 4: I mean good to me, So I should I should

594
00:32:39,956 --> 00:32:43,036
Speaker 4: be clear that you know, what I think is a

595
00:32:43,036 --> 00:32:47,076
Speaker 4: good Future Island song isn't. It's not everyone's cup of tea,

596
00:32:47,196 --> 00:32:50,436
Speaker 4: and that's okay, But I know that if I feel,

597
00:32:51,196 --> 00:32:54,916
Speaker 4: if a song makes me feel, it has the potential

598
00:32:54,956 --> 00:32:57,836
Speaker 4: to move people. Like I don't really remember writing the

599
00:32:57,876 --> 00:33:01,636
Speaker 4: good songs. I don't really remember writing songs there except

600
00:33:01,636 --> 00:33:04,716
Speaker 4: for maybe ones that I have struggled with. But the

601
00:33:04,716 --> 00:33:06,916
Speaker 4: ones you struggle with you're really proud of, but they

602
00:33:06,956 --> 00:33:07,916
Speaker 4: aren't the hits.

603
00:33:08,636 --> 00:33:11,716
Speaker 3: As a song writer, what do you think you're best at?

604
00:33:12,436 --> 00:33:15,396
Speaker 4: Just channeling emotion of music?

605
00:33:15,636 --> 00:33:19,436
Speaker 1: I mean, that's my that is my goal is.

606
00:33:19,356 --> 00:33:24,996
Speaker 4: To connect with the music and speak for it, like

607
00:33:25,036 --> 00:33:29,996
Speaker 4: the partnership of the partnership of me, William and Garrett.

608
00:33:30,156 --> 00:33:33,396
Speaker 4: That's a relationship that's gone back, coming up on twenty

609
00:33:33,436 --> 00:33:37,076
Speaker 4: one years. And the thing is is like we didn't

610
00:33:37,116 --> 00:33:40,156
Speaker 4: when we started making music. William had never played bass

611
00:33:40,276 --> 00:33:43,276
Speaker 4: before and Garrett had never played keyboards before. And I

612
00:33:43,356 --> 00:33:46,436
Speaker 4: was a rapper. I didn't I could sing. I knew

613
00:33:46,436 --> 00:33:48,796
Speaker 4: I could sing, but I wasn't a singer, and I

614
00:33:48,836 --> 00:33:51,156
Speaker 4: didn't want to be a singer. Like I wanted to

615
00:33:51,156 --> 00:33:53,596
Speaker 4: be a rapper and that was my goal, like going

616
00:33:53,636 --> 00:33:56,076
Speaker 4: to school musically, I was like wanted to find a

617
00:33:56,116 --> 00:34:01,196
Speaker 4: producer to make beats. And so the strange thing is

618
00:34:01,236 --> 00:34:04,596
Speaker 4: the way that we grew was really together, like everybody

619
00:34:04,676 --> 00:34:08,276
Speaker 4: kind of learned these new instruments together. And the fact

620
00:34:08,356 --> 00:34:10,716
Speaker 4: is is like, for being an eight year old kid

621
00:34:10,756 --> 00:34:14,756
Speaker 4: who never wanted to sing in a band, I immediate

622
00:34:14,756 --> 00:34:16,036
Speaker 4: because I didn't think it was cool.

623
00:34:16,516 --> 00:34:18,916
Speaker 3: Really, what didn't you think was cool about it?

624
00:34:19,316 --> 00:34:22,556
Speaker 1: Well, to me, bands were like they were like.

625
00:34:22,596 --> 00:34:25,396
Speaker 4: Whiny, which is really funny because like future rounds is

626
00:34:25,436 --> 00:34:32,276
Speaker 4: so emotional, but yeah, bands were like whiny and guitary.

627
00:34:32,356 --> 00:34:35,116
Speaker 4: I didn't like guitars. I was like, you know, I

628
00:34:35,196 --> 00:34:38,236
Speaker 4: like beats and like I like descending.

629
00:34:38,316 --> 00:34:38,596
Speaker 1: I live.

630
00:34:38,636 --> 00:34:40,716
Speaker 4: The falling blocks is what I call them, Like these

631
00:34:40,796 --> 00:34:44,396
Speaker 4: kind of descending synth lines and sample based stuff, and

632
00:34:45,036 --> 00:34:49,756
Speaker 4: I just didn't I was never drawn to guitar guitar rock.

633
00:34:49,796 --> 00:34:53,076
Speaker 4: I'm still not, you know, it's just not my not

634
00:34:53,156 --> 00:34:55,756
Speaker 4: my thing. It took me a long time to even

635
00:34:55,796 --> 00:34:57,796
Speaker 4: get into, like I'm a big you know, I'm a

636
00:34:57,796 --> 00:34:59,636
Speaker 4: big jazz head, but it took me a long time

637
00:34:59,676 --> 00:35:03,036
Speaker 4: to even get down with like jazz guitar. I love

638
00:35:03,076 --> 00:35:09,076
Speaker 4: a little django, but I mean like electric jazz guitars.

639
00:35:09,156 --> 00:35:10,356
Speaker 1: Cool. There's some greats.

640
00:35:10,076 --> 00:35:14,276
Speaker 4: Anyways, let's not talk about. But yeah, like it just

641
00:35:14,356 --> 00:35:16,516
Speaker 4: it just didn't appeal to me. But the thing is

642
00:35:16,516 --> 00:35:19,196
Speaker 4: is like when those guys started making music together, it

643
00:35:19,316 --> 00:35:23,796
Speaker 4: pulled something from me that I couldn't explain. And I

644
00:35:23,996 --> 00:35:26,596
Speaker 4: still just like get this feeling. And I don't know

645
00:35:26,636 --> 00:35:29,556
Speaker 4: if it's because of a deeper connection with those guys,

646
00:35:29,596 --> 00:35:31,556
Speaker 4: especially like you know, get me and Garrett were best

647
00:35:31,556 --> 00:35:34,356
Speaker 4: friends through high school and went off to college together.

648
00:35:34,796 --> 00:35:37,596
Speaker 4: I never made music because Garrett played guitar, you know,

649
00:35:37,636 --> 00:35:39,836
Speaker 4: and he was like he was like a metal guitarist,

650
00:35:39,956 --> 00:35:42,796
Speaker 4: you know, he was just like ripping on his Jackson. Yeah,

651
00:35:42,876 --> 00:35:45,436
Speaker 4: you know, and like, yeah, me and Garrett obviously are

652
00:35:45,476 --> 00:35:49,556
Speaker 4: not going to to make music together. So that so

653
00:35:49,636 --> 00:35:52,316
Speaker 4: then for him to kind of come into this conceptual

654
00:35:52,356 --> 00:35:55,316
Speaker 4: project that me and William had together was really cool

655
00:35:55,396 --> 00:35:57,236
Speaker 4: to have my best friend. And then all of a sudden,

656
00:35:57,716 --> 00:36:00,836
Speaker 4: him and William were just like melding and like learning

657
00:36:00,876 --> 00:36:04,556
Speaker 4: and creating really very quickly, like within six or seven months,

658
00:36:04,636 --> 00:36:08,476
Speaker 4: they were creating these really beautiful ideas from this kind

659
00:36:08,476 --> 00:36:11,916
Speaker 4: of from scratch, you know, from where we started, where

660
00:36:11,916 --> 00:36:16,516
Speaker 4: it was a little loose. But anyways, that's just like

661
00:36:16,516 --> 00:36:18,916
Speaker 4: a thing that has continued to pull for me. But

662
00:36:19,036 --> 00:36:21,636
Speaker 4: as Garrett, you know, Garrett being my best friend. When

663
00:36:21,676 --> 00:36:23,516
Speaker 4: we were kids, you know, a lot of our friendship

664
00:36:23,596 --> 00:36:29,916
Speaker 4: was based around mutual anger and alienation about you know,

665
00:36:30,036 --> 00:36:33,756
Speaker 4: the world as fourteen year old kids who didn't feel

666
00:36:33,796 --> 00:36:36,436
Speaker 4: like we fit in and felt like the way fourteen

667
00:36:36,476 --> 00:36:39,076
Speaker 4: year old kids are every moodst What were.

668
00:36:38,916 --> 00:36:40,636
Speaker 3: You guys like? Like, what were you like in middle

669
00:36:40,676 --> 00:36:41,596
Speaker 3: school and high school?

670
00:36:42,196 --> 00:36:44,756
Speaker 4: I mean Garrett was a skater. I hung out with

671
00:36:44,756 --> 00:36:48,116
Speaker 4: skaters like when we were like twelve or thirteen. And

672
00:36:48,156 --> 00:36:50,796
Speaker 4: then I shouldn't give away all Garrett's secrets, that's for

673
00:36:50,876 --> 00:36:55,076
Speaker 4: him to give away. But I started smoking cigarettes and

674
00:36:55,196 --> 00:36:58,076
Speaker 4: smoking weed and went away. We were both like played

675
00:36:58,076 --> 00:37:00,356
Speaker 4: sports and stuff. But then we kind of went away

676
00:37:00,356 --> 00:37:04,756
Speaker 4: from that. I got really into a kind of discovered poetry,

677
00:37:05,476 --> 00:37:08,436
Speaker 4: weed and drawing all at the same time, and that

678
00:37:08,516 --> 00:37:10,676
Speaker 4: kind of became my life. And you know, through that

679
00:37:10,796 --> 00:37:13,996
Speaker 4: hip hop and I was very much you know, by

680
00:37:14,036 --> 00:37:16,596
Speaker 4: the time I was like fifteen sixteen, I was like,

681
00:37:16,676 --> 00:37:19,116
Speaker 4: I'm an artist and I'm a rapper and I know

682
00:37:19,156 --> 00:37:20,196
Speaker 4: exactly who I am.

683
00:37:21,116 --> 00:37:22,276
Speaker 1: And yeah, it was just on this.

684
00:37:22,316 --> 00:37:25,996
Speaker 4: Journey with words and and uh, you know, Garrett was

685
00:37:26,476 --> 00:37:28,956
Speaker 4: Garrett was. We were both like really into art. We

686
00:37:29,036 --> 00:37:33,076
Speaker 4: had a short lived graffiti crew that was not very cool.

687
00:37:33,436 --> 00:37:34,796
Speaker 1: It was just the two of us.

688
00:37:35,436 --> 00:37:37,876
Speaker 4: We're like, go behind the k art and we're like

689
00:37:37,876 --> 00:37:40,556
Speaker 4: we were gonna do a bombing run on the cam art.

690
00:37:40,636 --> 00:37:43,196
Speaker 3: Oh yeah. Was there anyone in your family who was artists? Like,

691
00:37:43,236 --> 00:37:44,836
Speaker 3: did you have anyone to look up to?

692
00:37:46,156 --> 00:37:48,716
Speaker 4: Yeah? Well, my have like a small family, me and

693
00:37:48,716 --> 00:37:50,436
Speaker 4: an older brother. I mean my brother was the one

694
00:37:50,476 --> 00:37:52,636
Speaker 4: who turned me onto He turned me onto hip hop.

695
00:37:52,636 --> 00:37:55,396
Speaker 4: I mean he was the one that brought the records home. Yeah,

696
00:37:55,476 --> 00:37:59,916
Speaker 4: and uh, he was all into Pantera and crazy into

697
00:37:59,996 --> 00:38:03,196
Speaker 4: Jane's addiction and Danzig and I love Danzig, but I

698
00:38:03,236 --> 00:38:05,996
Speaker 4: didn't get Jane's addiction at all when.

699
00:38:05,876 --> 00:38:06,596
Speaker 1: I was younger.

700
00:38:07,236 --> 00:38:09,876
Speaker 4: I can really appreciate some of it now, but back then,

701
00:38:09,956 --> 00:38:12,116
Speaker 4: I was just like, was terrified about what was happening

702
00:38:12,116 --> 00:38:14,396
Speaker 4: to my brother. You had like he had like holes

703
00:38:14,396 --> 00:38:17,196
Speaker 4: punched in the wall with like pictures of Perry Farrell

704
00:38:17,276 --> 00:38:19,756
Speaker 4: and then with he had one that it said like

705
00:38:19,996 --> 00:38:24,276
Speaker 4: written in like oil crayon around on the wall, just

706
00:38:24,316 --> 00:38:27,076
Speaker 4: like in this hole lives the Wicked King. And I

707
00:38:27,116 --> 00:38:29,916
Speaker 4: was just like, this is I'm very concerned about my

708
00:38:29,956 --> 00:38:30,516
Speaker 4: big brother.

709
00:38:32,116 --> 00:38:32,996
Speaker 1: My parents were too.

710
00:38:34,676 --> 00:38:36,956
Speaker 4: I mean that actually affected me really deeply because when

711
00:38:36,956 --> 00:38:39,396
Speaker 4: I was ten, I you know, went snooping through my

712
00:38:39,396 --> 00:38:42,036
Speaker 4: brother's room when I when I played hooky from school

713
00:38:42,076 --> 00:38:44,396
Speaker 4: to like see what kind of trouble he had that

714
00:38:44,436 --> 00:38:47,196
Speaker 4: I could get into. Ye, and I found Jane's addiction.

715
00:38:47,636 --> 00:38:50,556
Speaker 4: This movie called The Gift that he did. It's like

716
00:38:50,916 --> 00:38:56,356
Speaker 4: heroin overdoses and necrophilia. Yeah, oh right, and he had

717
00:38:56,516 --> 00:38:59,716
Speaker 4: so it was that and he also had gg Allen hated.

718
00:39:00,156 --> 00:39:02,756
Speaker 4: So I was like ten eleven years old watching a

719
00:39:02,836 --> 00:39:07,756
Speaker 4: grown man throw feces around naked and I was like,

720
00:39:08,076 --> 00:39:10,116
Speaker 4: I was just like, I think when I get into music,

721
00:39:12,836 --> 00:39:13,156
Speaker 4: were you.

722
00:39:13,076 --> 00:39:15,196
Speaker 3: Close with your parents at that time? Like what was

723
00:39:15,196 --> 00:39:16,916
Speaker 3: your relationship with They were.

724
00:39:16,796 --> 00:39:20,756
Speaker 4: Always like kind of supported music and art and and

725
00:39:20,796 --> 00:39:22,596
Speaker 4: it was years later until I found out that my

726
00:39:22,716 --> 00:39:24,636
Speaker 4: dad was a painter when he was a kid.

727
00:39:24,796 --> 00:39:27,556
Speaker 1: Oh wow, my dad built a lot of furniture.

728
00:39:27,876 --> 00:39:29,156
Speaker 3: Wow, that's cool.

729
00:39:29,316 --> 00:39:31,996
Speaker 4: And uh and my mom, but my mom played piano

730
00:39:32,076 --> 00:39:34,676
Speaker 4: and loved to play and sang. So there was always

731
00:39:34,756 --> 00:39:37,956
Speaker 4: like stacks of sheet music in the house and that

732
00:39:38,036 --> 00:39:40,116
Speaker 4: was kind of something that me and my brother and

733
00:39:40,196 --> 00:39:43,916
Speaker 4: my mom shared, Like still to this day when it's

734
00:39:43,996 --> 00:39:46,836
Speaker 4: around Christmas time, my mom and brother will sit up

735
00:39:46,876 --> 00:39:50,236
Speaker 4: at the piano and play Christmas songs. But then that

736
00:39:50,436 --> 00:39:53,156
Speaker 4: but also the other thing that happens is then they

737
00:39:53,436 --> 00:39:55,276
Speaker 4: they do all of Jesus Christ Superstar.

738
00:39:55,396 --> 00:39:57,836
Speaker 1: And you know, if you've seen me perform, you think

739
00:39:57,876 --> 00:40:01,116
Speaker 1: that I'm I'm a big showman.

740
00:40:01,316 --> 00:40:03,916
Speaker 4: That you should see my brother do Jesus Christ Superstar

741
00:40:04,076 --> 00:40:08,436
Speaker 4: the living room. Yeah, I mean it came from somewhere. Yeah,

742
00:40:09,156 --> 00:40:11,716
Speaker 4: you know, my brother was really the first front person

743
00:40:11,756 --> 00:40:13,996
Speaker 4: I ever saw in person, you know, he was, and

744
00:40:14,036 --> 00:40:15,396
Speaker 4: that was a big thing too, Like he was the

745
00:40:15,396 --> 00:40:18,476
Speaker 4: one who was in bands. So when I when I

746
00:40:18,516 --> 00:40:22,556
Speaker 4: discovered rap that that was kind of like, oh, that's

747
00:40:22,596 --> 00:40:25,876
Speaker 4: what I'm going to do because Joel does. Joel's in bands,

748
00:40:26,516 --> 00:40:28,356
Speaker 4: so I'll do this thing, you know. It would be

749
00:40:28,436 --> 00:40:30,996
Speaker 4: kind of like it was still like out of some

750
00:40:31,516 --> 00:40:33,116
Speaker 4: want to impress him, but at.

751
00:40:32,956 --> 00:40:35,636
Speaker 3: The same time it was differentiating your path.

752
00:40:36,116 --> 00:40:40,156
Speaker 4: Yeah, having my own thing and feeling more like mine.

753
00:40:40,556 --> 00:40:42,396
Speaker 4: And also that was probably had something to do with

754
00:40:42,476 --> 00:40:46,316
Speaker 4: like I always you know, that partnership with Garrett and

755
00:40:46,316 --> 00:40:48,596
Speaker 4: William and now with Mike or is so important to me.

756
00:40:48,676 --> 00:40:50,396
Speaker 1: But I've always been from.

757
00:40:50,276 --> 00:40:55,676
Speaker 4: A young age very alone, you know, in in how

758
00:40:55,716 --> 00:40:58,276
Speaker 4: I want to move or at least how I feel

759
00:40:58,316 --> 00:40:59,276
Speaker 4: comfortable in the world.

760
00:40:59,596 --> 00:41:02,876
Speaker 1: Is it's that lone wolf syndrome, you know.

761
00:41:03,236 --> 00:41:06,356
Speaker 4: I think it's actually a symptom more of feeling, you know,

762
00:41:06,476 --> 00:41:08,796
Speaker 4: that alienation and isolation at a young age and not

763
00:41:08,836 --> 00:41:11,036
Speaker 4: feeling like I fit in. So then I accepted being

764
00:41:12,196 --> 00:41:14,276
Speaker 4: different to be like, oh no, I choose this.

765
00:41:14,636 --> 00:41:17,636
Speaker 2: Yeah, wee last quick break and then the rest of

766
00:41:17,676 --> 00:41:25,876
Speaker 2: Leah's conversation with Samuel t Hearing and now the rest

767
00:41:26,036 --> 00:41:27,676
Speaker 2: of Samuel t Hearing.

768
00:41:28,836 --> 00:41:31,796
Speaker 3: I noticed on this new album, there's a lot of imagery.

769
00:41:32,836 --> 00:41:37,396
Speaker 3: You mentioned night a lot, and was there something specific

770
00:41:37,476 --> 00:41:40,196
Speaker 3: that happened at night or is that just a time

771
00:41:40,236 --> 00:41:43,236
Speaker 3: of day that you feel particularly reflective.

772
00:41:44,196 --> 00:41:47,836
Speaker 1: That's really funny. I didn't realize how much I talked

773
00:41:47,836 --> 00:41:49,836
Speaker 1: about night. Yes, it is.

774
00:41:50,876 --> 00:41:54,276
Speaker 4: I think the night carries And this once again goes

775
00:41:54,316 --> 00:41:58,876
Speaker 4: to I really believe in using these very simple ideas

776
00:41:58,996 --> 00:42:02,556
Speaker 4: to tell the stories, to try to reach as many

777
00:42:02,556 --> 00:42:05,836
Speaker 4: people as possible. And in the way that the day

778
00:42:06,396 --> 00:42:10,916
Speaker 4: has certain connotations or but different times of day have

779
00:42:10,916 --> 00:42:13,916
Speaker 4: have different meaning. You know, the sunrise means something different

780
00:42:13,916 --> 00:42:16,476
Speaker 4: than the sunset, and in the same way the first

781
00:42:16,556 --> 00:42:19,156
Speaker 4: fall of night, you know, deep in the middle of

782
00:42:19,196 --> 00:42:21,476
Speaker 4: the night, or or the end of night hoping for

783
00:42:21,516 --> 00:42:24,556
Speaker 4: the morning, and in these kinds of things like I

784
00:42:24,596 --> 00:42:28,196
Speaker 4: think for me, I spent a lot of time in

785
00:42:28,236 --> 00:42:32,156
Speaker 4: this album. It felt like it was all through the

786
00:42:32,236 --> 00:42:36,476
Speaker 4: pandemic and then after the pandemic, but the pandemic was

787
00:42:36,516 --> 00:42:41,996
Speaker 4: like had created an environment where the sun didn't come

788
00:42:42,036 --> 00:42:47,436
Speaker 4: out again for a bit because of the the split,

789
00:42:47,556 --> 00:42:51,756
Speaker 4: and then my life feeling like I didn't know what

790
00:42:52,156 --> 00:42:54,996
Speaker 4: was up or down or what was night and day

791
00:42:55,356 --> 00:42:57,516
Speaker 4: and the night like scared me, you know, like the

792
00:42:57,636 --> 00:43:02,796
Speaker 4: night was when, yeah, being alone and being afraid of

793
00:43:03,076 --> 00:43:05,476
Speaker 4: those things that I'd said, like being afraid of the

794
00:43:05,516 --> 00:43:07,316
Speaker 4: ghosts of my past.

795
00:43:07,036 --> 00:43:07,676
Speaker 1: To come back.

796
00:43:07,716 --> 00:43:10,636
Speaker 4: And you know, I was like probably going to bed

797
00:43:10,636 --> 00:43:13,756
Speaker 4: at like eight thirty nine every night after that because

798
00:43:13,796 --> 00:43:16,836
Speaker 4: I wanted I didn't want. I didn't just didn't want

799
00:43:16,836 --> 00:43:18,756
Speaker 4: to be tempted by it. I didn't want to be

800
00:43:18,796 --> 00:43:21,796
Speaker 4: alone with my thoughts, which is all I was. You know,

801
00:43:22,796 --> 00:43:24,636
Speaker 4: when I was writing a lot of this album, it

802
00:43:24,756 --> 00:43:28,556
Speaker 4: felt like it wasn't ever going to end. I think

803
00:43:28,596 --> 00:43:32,236
Speaker 4: that's why those moments are important. Like the way the

804
00:43:32,276 --> 00:43:35,156
Speaker 4: Garden Wheel ends the record is to say that, you know,

805
00:43:35,276 --> 00:43:38,396
Speaker 4: the things rise again and and you know the sun,

806
00:43:38,956 --> 00:43:40,036
Speaker 4: the sun is out again.

807
00:43:40,036 --> 00:43:40,876
Speaker 1: We're out of the room.

808
00:43:41,356 --> 00:43:43,636
Speaker 4: But at the same time, like King of Sweden starts

809
00:43:44,556 --> 00:43:47,196
Speaker 4: the record, there's a line in that song that is

810
00:43:48,156 --> 00:43:50,436
Speaker 4: it's an inside story between me and this person. But

811
00:43:51,276 --> 00:43:53,276
Speaker 4: you know, there was a time I was driving on

812
00:43:53,316 --> 00:43:58,236
Speaker 4: the down a back road and in the countryside and

813
00:43:58,236 --> 00:44:02,956
Speaker 4: southern Sweden, and I could see the moon like through

814
00:44:02,956 --> 00:44:06,796
Speaker 4: the clouds, this big bright moon, the perfect circle of it,

815
00:44:06,916 --> 00:44:09,316
Speaker 4: hazy through the clouds, low on the horizon. I was like,

816
00:44:09,356 --> 00:44:12,236
Speaker 4: the moon is beautiful, and she was just like, dude,

817
00:44:12,276 --> 00:44:13,236
Speaker 4: that's the sun.

818
00:44:15,356 --> 00:44:17,916
Speaker 1: The moon. I was like, the moon is shining through

819
00:44:17,956 --> 00:44:19,476
Speaker 1: the clouds in the daytime.

820
00:44:20,356 --> 00:44:22,876
Speaker 3: She's like, you're like a nocturnal creature who should not

821
00:44:22,996 --> 00:44:24,076
Speaker 3: be out during this.

822
00:44:24,276 --> 00:44:27,556
Speaker 4: Yeah, but then we just like laughed. I was like,

823
00:44:27,596 --> 00:44:30,636
Speaker 4: that's hilarious. But yeah, I say in the line, you

824
00:44:30,676 --> 00:44:33,076
Speaker 4: know the moon was low and incensed or was it

825
00:44:33,076 --> 00:44:35,796
Speaker 4: the sun in the horizon that lit the figure in

826
00:44:35,836 --> 00:44:39,876
Speaker 4: the distance. And that's that's how the song start, or

827
00:44:39,916 --> 00:44:42,316
Speaker 4: the album starts with King of Sweden and the sun

828
00:44:42,396 --> 00:44:46,516
Speaker 4: low on the horizon going down into the night, and

829
00:44:46,636 --> 00:44:50,076
Speaker 4: then we rise up again with the last song.

830
00:44:50,396 --> 00:44:53,236
Speaker 3: King of Sweden is such a good song, thank you,

831
00:44:53,596 --> 00:44:55,676
Speaker 3: thank you very much. When you finish that song where

832
00:44:55,676 --> 00:44:57,996
Speaker 3: you're like, oh, this is like a banger, like this

833
00:44:58,076 --> 00:44:58,636
Speaker 3: is a good one.

834
00:44:58,716 --> 00:45:01,476
Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, that one felt really good. And a lot

835
00:45:01,476 --> 00:45:04,236
Speaker 4: of those pretty much all the cadences, and I would

836
00:45:04,236 --> 00:45:07,836
Speaker 4: say about fifty percent of the words, if not more,

837
00:45:07,876 --> 00:45:13,276
Speaker 4: were we're actually freestyles or freestyle improvisations. We we wrote

838
00:45:13,276 --> 00:45:17,036
Speaker 4: that on a jam and then I was like, you know,

839
00:45:17,196 --> 00:45:23,636
Speaker 4: press record and I was just like, yeah, getting.

840
00:45:23,316 --> 00:45:25,276
Speaker 1: That flow, and I was like, this feels really good,

841
00:45:25,356 --> 00:45:26,156
Speaker 1: it feels fun.

842
00:45:26,556 --> 00:45:29,756
Speaker 3: It's really really good. And then that I believe it's

843
00:45:29,756 --> 00:45:34,316
Speaker 3: the second song the tower. M do you think about

844
00:45:34,356 --> 00:45:39,396
Speaker 3: like the little like I I like, are those things

845
00:45:39,436 --> 00:45:43,196
Speaker 3: that you add in intentionally for the song to be

846
00:45:43,356 --> 00:45:46,956
Speaker 3: catchy or is that just how the song worked itself out.

847
00:45:47,876 --> 00:45:50,876
Speaker 4: Well, that's just how it got wrote. That's my that's

848
00:45:50,916 --> 00:45:54,516
Speaker 4: my southern coming out. That's how I got wrote. Yeah, no,

849
00:45:54,516 --> 00:45:57,836
Speaker 4: now that wasn't intentional hook put in. I'm glad that

850
00:45:57,876 --> 00:45:59,196
Speaker 4: you think it's hooky.

851
00:45:59,876 --> 00:46:01,396
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think it's the type of song

852
00:46:01,436 --> 00:46:04,556
Speaker 3: where like by the second or third verse, the first

853
00:46:04,596 --> 00:46:07,956
Speaker 3: time hearing it as a listener, you can start participating

854
00:46:07,956 --> 00:46:10,036
Speaker 3: with it and it's you know, you can repeat it

855
00:46:10,116 --> 00:46:12,516
Speaker 3: and it hooks you in really quickly.

856
00:46:13,276 --> 00:46:15,196
Speaker 4: It is funny because I was home at uh I

857
00:46:15,276 --> 00:46:18,676
Speaker 4: was home at Thanksgiving and and I shared the finished

858
00:46:18,716 --> 00:46:21,636
Speaker 4: record with my parents and my mom was doing that

859
00:46:21,676 --> 00:46:24,876
Speaker 4: around the house. I just like here in different rooms.

860
00:46:25,396 --> 00:46:28,676
Speaker 4: I was like, Oh, that's cute, that's real cute. But

861
00:46:29,156 --> 00:46:32,956
Speaker 4: it's actually funny because if you're you know, there's probably

862
00:46:32,956 --> 00:46:35,756
Speaker 4: like five hundred people out there that would know. But

863
00:46:35,876 --> 00:46:38,596
Speaker 4: our first band, art Lord and the Self Portraits.

864
00:46:38,196 --> 00:46:38,676
Speaker 1: Had a song.

865
00:46:38,756 --> 00:46:41,236
Speaker 4: One of the last last songs you wrote was a

866
00:46:41,356 --> 00:46:42,676
Speaker 4: really awesome song called.

867
00:46:42,516 --> 00:46:47,596
Speaker 1: I I I and I would be like I I.

868
00:46:47,796 --> 00:46:49,436
Speaker 3: Is that the band that you like were kind of

869
00:46:49,436 --> 00:46:50,156
Speaker 3: like a character?

870
00:46:51,196 --> 00:46:51,436
Speaker 1: Yeah?

871
00:46:51,476 --> 00:46:53,396
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was me And that was me and William

872
00:46:53,476 --> 00:46:56,116
Speaker 4: and Garrett's first first group before a future.

873
00:46:56,596 --> 00:46:58,516
Speaker 3: So what was the thinking behind the character? Like, what

874
00:46:59,556 --> 00:47:00,276
Speaker 3: was that all about?

875
00:47:01,156 --> 00:47:02,876
Speaker 4: Well, you know, I told you that when I went

876
00:47:02,916 --> 00:47:04,516
Speaker 4: to college, I didn't really want to I didn't want

877
00:47:04,516 --> 00:47:06,076
Speaker 4: to be in a band, like want to be a rapper,

878
00:47:06,156 --> 00:47:08,436
Speaker 4: and and that's kind of how I saw it. And

879
00:47:08,436 --> 00:47:12,756
Speaker 4: then when I met I was also really into conceptual

880
00:47:12,836 --> 00:47:16,756
Speaker 4: and performance art and had discovered that you know, you

881
00:47:16,836 --> 00:47:21,476
Speaker 4: can stand anywhere you want and do a performance. If

882
00:47:21,676 --> 00:47:25,036
Speaker 4: it's a performance to you, then you know, you can

883
00:47:25,356 --> 00:47:28,676
Speaker 4: stand on the sidewalk and do a performance, and you

884
00:47:28,676 --> 00:47:31,316
Speaker 4: can create art in any moment. Like these ideas as

885
00:47:31,316 --> 00:47:34,636
Speaker 4: a very stoned seventeen eighteen year old were a mind

886
00:47:34,676 --> 00:47:38,116
Speaker 4: blowing to me that I could make art that didn't

887
00:47:38,196 --> 00:47:42,876
Speaker 4: have a product. It was creating reactions, you know, creating

888
00:47:42,916 --> 00:47:46,236
Speaker 4: something for people hopefully good, you know, And I think

889
00:47:46,236 --> 00:47:49,196
Speaker 4: that's something that still is a big part of It

890
00:47:49,236 --> 00:47:51,276
Speaker 4: was a big part of when we started Art Lord

891
00:47:51,276 --> 00:47:53,476
Speaker 4: and Self Portraits, and it's still a big part of

892
00:47:53,756 --> 00:47:59,636
Speaker 4: myself today, which is trying to create reactions within an

893
00:47:59,676 --> 00:48:03,356
Speaker 4: audience in a live setting, because I know the value

894
00:48:03,356 --> 00:48:07,716
Speaker 4: of that. Whether negative or positive, the experience or the

895
00:48:07,756 --> 00:48:12,796
Speaker 4: reaction that you get, it is still pulling something from people.

896
00:48:13,036 --> 00:48:17,156
Speaker 4: It's causing them to uh, it's causing them to think

897
00:48:17,276 --> 00:48:20,476
Speaker 4: or feel. That's been the goal of this band for

898
00:48:20,516 --> 00:48:24,836
Speaker 4: a long time, is to create that safe space for

899
00:48:24,956 --> 00:48:28,836
Speaker 4: an audience to be able to feel free and feel

900
00:48:28,876 --> 00:48:31,876
Speaker 4: like they can be vulnerable and not be afraid. Because

901
00:48:32,436 --> 00:48:38,436
Speaker 4: if we're on stage and we're coming from a PowerPoint,

902
00:48:38,836 --> 00:48:42,036
Speaker 4: you know, a place where we have your attention and

903
00:48:42,116 --> 00:48:45,516
Speaker 4: we can and we can share strong emotion and we

904
00:48:45,596 --> 00:48:49,676
Speaker 4: can cry, and we can fight through things and still

905
00:48:49,716 --> 00:48:53,676
Speaker 4: be strong and share in that moment, then we can,

906
00:48:53,796 --> 00:49:00,156
Speaker 4: you know, just just illustrate through living, you know, this emotion.

907
00:49:00,436 --> 00:49:05,036
Speaker 4: So it's a long process. Life is long, Yeah, it's not.

908
00:49:05,116 --> 00:49:07,996
Speaker 4: Life is short. I lived by that idea for so

909
00:49:08,116 --> 00:49:11,316
Speaker 4: many years of my life, just thinking thinking that I

910
00:49:11,356 --> 00:49:18,996
Speaker 4: was going to die, expecting death, wanting death, and really

911
00:49:19,036 --> 00:49:22,116
Speaker 4: coming to terms in the last ten years, like, Nope,

912
00:49:22,236 --> 00:49:24,396
Speaker 4: it's going to keep going and you're going to find

913
00:49:24,436 --> 00:49:28,316
Speaker 4: better ways to get through it and enjoy things and

914
00:49:29,076 --> 00:49:32,916
Speaker 4: enjoy people and to have a good life instead of

915
00:49:33,236 --> 00:49:36,876
Speaker 4: putting yourself into a bad place. Yeah. I mean that's

916
00:49:36,956 --> 00:49:41,876
Speaker 4: been a big change in the last few years. We've

917
00:49:41,996 --> 00:49:46,236
Speaker 4: made the decision to stop touring so much and to

918
00:49:46,316 --> 00:49:50,516
Speaker 4: make more space for our own lives. And part of

919
00:49:50,516 --> 00:49:54,116
Speaker 4: that is just because it just doesn't feel this touring

920
00:49:54,116 --> 00:49:56,996
Speaker 4: feels a lot different between twenty five and forty.

921
00:49:57,556 --> 00:50:01,396
Speaker 3: Yeah, I imagine is that where you get the biggest

922
00:50:01,396 --> 00:50:04,916
Speaker 3: financial gain is through touring. So making that decision, is

923
00:50:04,956 --> 00:50:07,676
Speaker 3: that changing the way that you know you're going to

924
00:50:07,756 --> 00:50:08,796
Speaker 3: do financially in a year?

925
00:50:09,636 --> 00:50:10,596
Speaker 1: Yeah? Part of that is.

926
00:50:10,676 --> 00:50:13,876
Speaker 4: Part of that is an acceptance of for me personally,

927
00:50:14,636 --> 00:50:18,196
Speaker 4: what I need to make a life work. I mean,

928
00:50:18,396 --> 00:50:20,716
Speaker 4: of course, there was a time where we couldn't take

929
00:50:20,756 --> 00:50:22,516
Speaker 4: a day off on a tour because if you take

930
00:50:22,556 --> 00:50:25,356
Speaker 4: a day off, then you lose money, and there isn't

931
00:50:25,396 --> 00:50:28,436
Speaker 4: any money you can't afford to take time off, So

932
00:50:28,516 --> 00:50:33,836
Speaker 4: that that kind of the diy ethos leaked into a

933
00:50:33,916 --> 00:50:37,396
Speaker 4: time when we could have taken a break and Because

934
00:50:37,396 --> 00:50:40,476
Speaker 4: of that, we really hit the wall hard a couple times,

935
00:50:41,036 --> 00:50:44,756
Speaker 4: and the fear of hitting the wall again is is

936
00:50:44,796 --> 00:50:46,796
Speaker 4: the next time you hit the wall the last one,

937
00:50:47,516 --> 00:50:51,396
Speaker 4: you know, because you do run the high risk, not

938
00:50:51,476 --> 00:50:54,156
Speaker 4: even you don't even run the risk of exhaustion. Being

939
00:50:54,156 --> 00:50:59,636
Speaker 4: a Tory musician, you will get exhausted, and some people

940
00:50:59,676 --> 00:51:03,036
Speaker 4: don't recover from that, you know, it mentally scars them

941
00:51:03,036 --> 00:51:04,116
Speaker 4: and affects them ideal.

942
00:51:04,356 --> 00:51:05,516
Speaker 1: I have my own.

943
00:51:06,596 --> 00:51:10,916
Speaker 4: Damage from touring and the things that it's done to

944
00:51:10,956 --> 00:51:13,676
Speaker 4: my personal life, the things that it's done to me physically,

945
00:51:14,036 --> 00:51:18,236
Speaker 4: Like I have a busted knee from playing shows, and

946
00:51:19,596 --> 00:51:27,596
Speaker 4: I now associate like the month before tour is really

947
00:51:27,636 --> 00:51:29,596
Speaker 4: hard for me because I know that I'm about to

948
00:51:29,636 --> 00:51:34,756
Speaker 4: put myself in pain. Yeah, so it's like I'm psychologically scarred.

949
00:51:35,276 --> 00:51:35,556
Speaker 1: You know.

950
00:51:35,636 --> 00:51:38,996
Speaker 4: So this thing that brings me so much joy and

951
00:51:39,116 --> 00:51:42,756
Speaker 4: gives me purpose is also causes me great pain.

952
00:51:44,036 --> 00:51:45,836
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm doing all kinds of things.

953
00:51:45,876 --> 00:51:48,196
Speaker 4: I'm in physical therapy to like try to get to

954
00:51:48,236 --> 00:51:50,156
Speaker 4: a better place with my knee and make it sustainable.

955
00:51:50,396 --> 00:51:52,916
Speaker 4: But that's what the you know, pairing down from playing

956
00:51:52,916 --> 00:51:55,156
Speaker 4: one hundred and fifty shows a year to playing one

957
00:51:55,236 --> 00:51:57,916
Speaker 4: hundred shows and now probably down to like fifty or

958
00:51:57,916 --> 00:52:01,396
Speaker 4: sixty is where we're at now and not pushing past

959
00:52:01,476 --> 00:52:05,636
Speaker 4: that is about making this, making the decision to do

960
00:52:05,676 --> 00:52:07,636
Speaker 4: this for the rest of our lives. Like we could

961
00:52:07,636 --> 00:52:10,076
Speaker 4: either we could eat to do this one hundred and

962
00:52:10,076 --> 00:52:12,516
Speaker 4: fifty shows a year for the next five years until

963
00:52:12,516 --> 00:52:14,836
Speaker 4: we never want to do this again, or we can

964
00:52:15,036 --> 00:52:17,876
Speaker 4: you know, play fifty shows a year for you know,

965
00:52:17,996 --> 00:52:22,316
Speaker 4: years and years and also be more interesting within our

966
00:52:22,396 --> 00:52:24,956
Speaker 4: music because we can actually take the breaks to live

967
00:52:25,076 --> 00:52:28,236
Speaker 4: life so we have something to reflect on and have

968
00:52:28,276 --> 00:52:31,436
Speaker 4: something to speak about and connect with people on. Like

969
00:52:32,596 --> 00:52:35,836
Speaker 4: we have our first, you know baby in the band,

970
00:52:36,116 --> 00:52:39,516
Speaker 4: and like I don't want that child to grow up

971
00:52:39,596 --> 00:52:42,836
Speaker 4: with out their dad around.

972
00:52:43,036 --> 00:52:45,716
Speaker 3: Is that Garrett Garrett has a baby, yeah, and I.

973
00:52:45,796 --> 00:52:51,316
Speaker 4: And that's it's really important to me that everybody is happy.

974
00:52:51,756 --> 00:52:53,636
Speaker 4: I think that think that's where we all got to

975
00:52:53,916 --> 00:52:56,516
Speaker 4: And I know that I don't need you know, this

976
00:52:57,276 --> 00:52:59,996
Speaker 4: potential amount of money to be happy, Like that's going

977
00:53:00,036 --> 00:53:03,276
Speaker 4: to make me less happy. I only need like this

978
00:53:03,396 --> 00:53:06,436
Speaker 4: to survive, you know. Let me just play the shows

979
00:53:06,996 --> 00:53:10,956
Speaker 4: and like get that joy, not hurt myself, not hurt

980
00:53:10,996 --> 00:53:15,396
Speaker 4: my friends and and you know, feed the audience, but

981
00:53:15,676 --> 00:53:20,756
Speaker 4: like also hold something for ourselves and yeah, and enjoy life.

982
00:53:21,196 --> 00:53:24,556
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, congratulations on the new album and the promo

983
00:53:24,636 --> 00:53:26,996
Speaker 3: and everything that's to come. It sounds like you're in

984
00:53:27,076 --> 00:53:27,876
Speaker 3: a great space.

985
00:53:28,356 --> 00:53:29,316
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much.

986
00:53:29,636 --> 00:53:31,836
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you for doing this. I really appreciate you.

987
00:53:32,276 --> 00:53:32,516
Speaker 1: Yeah.

988
00:53:32,596 --> 00:53:34,796
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, but I really appreciate you taking the time

989
00:53:34,916 --> 00:53:37,196
Speaker 4: and making space for us on your podcast.

990
00:53:40,196 --> 00:53:42,756
Speaker 2: Thanks to Samuel T. Harring, the feature Islands for chatting

991
00:53:42,756 --> 00:53:45,676
Speaker 2: about the band's latest album, People Who Aren't There Anymore.

992
00:53:46,116 --> 00:53:48,276
Speaker 2: You can hear it along with our other favorite feature

993
00:53:48,316 --> 00:53:52,076
Speaker 2: Islands Songs on a playlist at broken Record podcast dot com.

994
00:53:52,596 --> 00:53:55,556
Speaker 2: Subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash

995
00:53:55,596 --> 00:53:57,996
Speaker 2: broken Record Podcast, where you can find all of our

996
00:53:58,036 --> 00:54:02,116
Speaker 2: new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record.

997
00:54:02,596 --> 00:54:05,516
Speaker 2: Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with

998
00:54:05,636 --> 00:54:09,036
Speaker 2: marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer

999
00:54:09,316 --> 00:54:13,636
Speaker 2: is Ben Toliday. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries.

1000
00:54:14,036 --> 00:54:16,836
Speaker 2: If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider

1001
00:54:16,876 --> 00:54:21,236
Speaker 2: subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription

1002
00:54:21,316 --> 00:54:24,076
Speaker 2: that offers bonus content and ad free listening for four

1003
00:54:24,236 --> 00:54:27,516
Speaker 2: ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple

1004
00:54:27,556 --> 00:54:31,476
Speaker 2: podcast subscriptions, and if you like this show, please remember

1005
00:54:31,556 --> 00:54:34,156
Speaker 2: to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app

1006
00:54:34,396 --> 00:54:37,156
Speaker 2: Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.