WEBVTT - The Man in the Tik Tok 0:00:01.880 --> 0:00:07.120 Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I heard radio podcast. Okay, 0:00:07.520 --> 0:00:12.520 I'm coming in hot to this podcast, okay, I And 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:15.120 I don't know if it's because in Eastern I have 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:17.400 you on too, because I really need like the male's 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:21.000 perspective even though you are like polar opposite from this person, 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:25.440 but I still need to have like your you know, 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:29.319 male nous in this um and I and I get that, 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:32.239 like I'm about to just sound maybe crazy to some 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:36.520 Do you have any idea where I'm going, Like no clue, 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:39.200 I'm trying to follow so bad. I love it, though, 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:43.280 what is it? Okay? You know, we don't really talk 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:46.760 about a lot of like pop culture stuff on this podcast, 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:48.920 like not too much. I mean we talked about you know, 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:51.280 selling sense and all those things. Blah blah blah. We 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:55.640 have some housewives on. I have to talk about the 0:00:55.680 --> 0:01:02.680 apology that Tristan gave to Clarie. I'm sorry that was 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:05.400 not an apology and I'm not, like, can I just 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:08.480 read it really fast because I like got like actually triggered, 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:10.640 and I know it's not about me whatever, Like I 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:14.039 get that I can see where that's triggering. Yeah, So 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:16.759 I take full responsibility for my actions now that blah 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:19.440 blah blah blah. I sincerely apologized to everyone I've heard 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:24.800 or disappointed throughout this ordeal, both publicly, uh and privately. Chloe, 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:27.560 this is this is where my my my boil goes 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:31.000 because I'm like, again, I have lived through I haven't 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:33.800 not to my knowledge, he hasn't. I don't have any 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:35.840 little babies. So he has little babies out there. I 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:40.920 don't know, like there's there is always that possibility. Um, 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:45.199 but Chloe, you don't deserve this, That's right. You don't 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:48.360 deserve the heartache and humiliation I have caused you. You 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:51.400 don't deserve the way that I've treated you over the years. 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:54.520 My actions certainly have not lined up with the way 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:57.720 I view you. I have the This is the part 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:02.240 that literally boils my skin ready for it. I have 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:07.680 the utmost respect and love for you. Mm hmm. Clearly 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:10.919 not were This is another thing that this is the 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:13.079 next line is so gaslighting to me, and I don't 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:16.280 know if it's just me regardless of what you may 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:23.680 think mm hmm. Again, I am so incredibly sorry. I 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:27.000 was like, no, that's not an apology, and this is 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:30.880 what my issue is. And maybe I'm maybe I'm close 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:32.400 to this because I feel like I haven't gotten the 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:36.000 apology that I feel like I deserved from my last situation. 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:39.760 But like, first of all, don't say in there I 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:42.120 have the utmost respect for you, regardless of what you 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:47.040 may think. Well, of course he doesn't ever what you don't. 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:50.320 You don't cheat on someone over and over and over 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:52.040 and over again and say that I respect you like 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:53.560 you have an issue. You should have said I have 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:57.680 been I have been so disrespectful and I haven't respected you. 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:04.840 That's owning something. That's apologizing, that's saying. And you can say, fine, yes, okay, 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:06.800 you love her. You You can say I love you, 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:09.600 but I don't know how to love because that's not loving. 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:12.800 So if someone says I have respect for you, I 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:17.600 respect you both, sorry, I'm getting heated because this is 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:21.840 like same like the ship with Mike. But like, how 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:24.480 can men like that that say that say they have 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:26.880 respect for you and then go regardless what you may think, 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:30.280 Because then then that makes us feel crazy. That goes 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:32.760 to us to going, oh, well, maybe they do respect 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:34.840 us because they're saying like the amount of times that 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:36.360 he would say regardless of what you think, Like I 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:38.000 won't do it again. And I love you and I 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:43.119 respect you, and that's not respect and it's not regardless 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:44.680 of what you may think, Like, that's so gas lighting. 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:47.000 Am I alone in this? No? No, no, you're not 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:53.040 not at all. It's a lot, it's a lot. This 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:58.720 is something dudes do, though, which is terribly upsetting because 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:03.320 I think when when when guys do something terrible, they 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:07.200 go into like this dumb panic mode part of their brain. Like, 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:09.440 these are things I can say that I know they're 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:11.680 not true, but there's things I can say because they 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:13.760 make me appear to be something that I am not, 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:17.680 and then it can get me past this till and 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:19.640 then I can I can just move on with my life. 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:23.440 And uh it's always like uh you know, um, I 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:27.160 I can change. You know, this isn't who I really am. 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:30.600 Uh yeah, regardless of what you think, I have the 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:33.080 almost love and respect for you know, regardless of what 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:34.880 you think, I'm not going to do it again, and 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:37.279 regardless of what you think. I'm healthy now, regardless of 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:38.800 what you think, and you know what that does. It's 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:42.120 just gas lighting and making this woman feel crazy. And 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:45.680 that's why we take back cheaters every single time. But 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:48.040 Is that a man thing or is that just like 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:54.280 an unhealthy a addict behavior. I mean, but both our 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:57.520 genders are prone to between this, but it's it's heavy 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:01.080 handed on the man. In my personal opinion, I think 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:02.800 men do that a lot more than than women do. 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:05.000 I will say when I like messed up, I never 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:07.480 said like, well and again I'm not in my last marriage, 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:09.599 but like and when I was like dating relationships, I'd 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:11.200 be like, I would never say regardless of what you 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:14.200 may think, because that's just like I don't have to 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:15.480 say that. I'd just be like, I'm not going to 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:17.960 do that or I'm not gonna this is what I did. 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:19.920 You know, it's like a regardless you may think it's 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:24.200 so narcissistically gas lighting, that was just throwing something in 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:26.359 there to make them. Yeah, I don't know. I respect 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:28.919 you regardless of what don't like. Literally, this is what 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:32.200 you should have said, Chloe, I messed up. I did 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:35.080 not respect you. You know, I mess up over and 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:37.720 over again. I didn't respect you. I have even I 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:40.520 wanted I love like I tried to love you, but 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:41.800 I don't know how to love because I don't know 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.919 respect for myself. You know, I don't respect for so 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:47.760 don't say you respect someone and then do that well, 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:49.839 And I just think that they probably don't have the 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:52.840 ability to be that vulnerable and to do that. No, 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:56.200 they don't have empathy. That's the issue. That's the piece 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:58.720 that there's actually my ex never got. That's a piece 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:01.120 that I don't think Tristan get. Then why girls they 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:05.159 don't feel truly bad. They don't take full ownership. And 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:07.400 that's my issue with those kind of apologies. And they 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:10.320 can make up in their head why they did something. 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.240 They can literally make up a reason. Well, I did 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:15.280 too hard. I was dating Chloe or you know, we 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:17.560 wrote a book and it was like so much pressure. 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:25.560 I don't care that you haven't you made choices? Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:28.400 I was heated when I read Surprise Now Yeah, because 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:29.839 when I saw it, I was like Jan was going 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:34.000 to have a thought about for sure. It's just I 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:35.960 just don't understand how someone can say I respect you 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:38.839 and then still like regardless of like, I just can't 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:42.320 well and then she deserves a reapology, don't Yeah, like 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:45.320 why didn't you clear that with someone? You know what 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:51.480 I mean? Did some woman tell him? Yeah? That's not 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:55.839 like actually because he might here's here's the thing, and 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:58.919 this is Devil's advocate. He might be like, okay, and 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:00.760 this is the same thing with Mike or any X 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:05.440 or whatever uh they might That is how that's that 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:09.040 that they think they're respecting like to their best ability 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:12.320 of what respecting is. But that is not true respect 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:17.800 at all. So I don't know. I just in like 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:20.880 any woman out there, don't first of all, don't listen 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:23.080 to regardless of what you think, because regardless of what 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:25.640 you think they're doing it, they're still doing it. They're 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:29.480 gonna do it regardless of what you think. I personally 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:32.840 think that's like the I mean the amount of times 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:35.160 that I heard that in my last relationship, Like it's 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:38.520 like you're trying to convince the other person. I don't 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:41.440 even I don't even understand why. I'm never going to 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:43.640 do it again, regardless what you think. I'm never I'm 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:46.000 a changed person, regardless of what you think. I don't 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:50.120 lie anymore, regardless of what you think. I'm sober, regardless 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:52.440 of what you think. Because you're telling the other person 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:55.560 that that their thoughts don't matter, and and that in 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:59.120 itself means you don't respect them. You know, like, oh, 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:01.800 what you're thinking isn't the truth, And that's not that's 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:04.240 it's not important to me the person that is like 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:05.840 on my hands and knees telling you how much I 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:08.440 love you. Also, your thoughts don't matter because they're wrong. 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:11.240 And yeah, and I remember taking that one piece too 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:14.080 to therapy, like how can you say you respect someone 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:19.520 and do be? Yeah? How I don't say And that's 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:23.280 what got me the most. More regardless we're saying I 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:25.960 respect you, I'm like, no, no, no, you don't get 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:27.720 to say that. You do not get to say I 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:30.520 respect you, because out of all the things you might, 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:33.640 you might actually love that person might actually whatever you 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:35.600 do not respect to them, or you wouldn't do it. 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:39.240 I don't think all yeah exactly, like don't say you 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:42.120 respect me? Like I have disrespected you and I'm so 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:45.319 sorry for this. I would have I would have accepted that, 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:47.520 as Chloe. I would have accepted that if Mike said 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.240 that to me, you know, I have disrespected you? Not 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:53.360 well I did these things because but then would you 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:55.360 just go back to him because he said the right thing? 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:57.600 I mean, they're always going to say the right thing. 0:08:57.640 --> 0:08:59.560 That's the that's the problem. But then that's you have 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:01.240 to look at the pattern. It's like if I were 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:04.520 to look back at all the things that like Tristan, 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:08.160 like Mike person said, they're gonna if they do it again, 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:12.040 it's a pattern. Yeah, I hope she doesn't. Oh, I pray, 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:15.280 And I was like rooting for them, like to make 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:17.440 it work because I'm always the person like even to 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:19.120 this day, everyone's like, do you believe in the good fight? 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:21.840 Do you believe? I one percent believe that people can 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:24.160 change and that you can grow. But I mean even 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:27.240 like you know Lisa Um you know turkish i was 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:29.480 pronounced her last name butcher. But I love her and 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:33.000 she's like, you know, people if the patterns they continue, 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:35.880 and it's like at some point you just have to 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:38.360 realize it as a pattern and not it's not changing. 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:43.360 So but I do believe in if someone makes a mistake, 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:45.880 they ability to change and to not cheat again. I 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:48.960 do believe that, But I also think there's if there's 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:51.400 a pattern and it's not changing, like don't stay in 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:54.520 it because you're gonna be you know you just yeah, 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:57.120 I mean, honestly, Catherine, if I would have stayed in 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:00.839 my marriage, it would have happened again, and and how 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:02.920 who knows when I would have left, would start over 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:07.200 at fifty sixty. Yeah, yeah, but anyways, I'm sorry. I 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:09.600 just had to get on my little soapbox because it 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:12.200 really triggered me the other day when I read it, 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:15.160 and I can only imagine how freaking Chloe felt. And 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:17.000 I just like, I don't know, we don't know the 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:19.440 ins and outs. But regardless of who they are, what 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:23.120 they are, how they are, that is not an apology, 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:26.080 and someone who's been in the same shoes deserves a 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:28.800 better apology. Don't do don't do it to the people, 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:31.800 do it to her. Yeah, that's the other thing. Anyone 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:36.320 listening with apology, Come on, I can't with that. Just yeah, 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:40.680 and anyone else listening, don't say hardless what you think. Yeah, 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:45.959 just do it. Yeah, just do it. Show people the action. 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:51.880 Actually yeah, it really is. Yeah, it's all complicating. Yeah, 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:55.840 actually easiest thing just yeah, just like own what you 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:58.920 did and uh and talking about how you're going to 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:02.959 move on. Yeah. I mean, Catherine, you've got some stuff 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:05.080 you want to talk about too, but we have um 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:06.959 so can we say that to the end of the show. 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:10.000 I know you and the wind down. Listeners have some 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:15.679 burning questions burning um, but we have got Have you 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:19.360 ever watched catfish? Yes? A few times. Have you ever 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:26.120 been catfished? Now you haven't, have you? Well they define catfished. 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:27.640 Well that's what I kind of want to know. I 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:29.440 want to ask. Okay, I really kind of need the 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:32.680 definition of catfished. All right, Well, we have a host 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:36.720 of catfish on the show, Niv Shulman, so I'm excited 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:38.199 to get him on. Let's take a break and then 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:56.080 we will talk all about catfish. What's up? Nive? Hey you, 0:11:56.559 --> 0:12:00.000 how are you? I'm really glad you didn't. You probably 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:03.800 heard that. I'm really glad you didn't. Catfish mean today 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:07.440 many times to get that one. Oh my mom just 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:12.400 coming out and saying they're coming. I am a black 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:20.040 belt in bad jokes. The more than okay good um okay. 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:23.520 I as a former Dancing with the Stars alumni as well, 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:26.760 I was really rooting for you on that show. You 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:33.240 were so fairly good, not hard enough. Maybe you had, 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:36.679 you know, got a few more people to vote. I know, 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:39.480 I'm sorry I could I would have had it. But 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:47.199 do you have fun? Those that experience is the only 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:50.600 thing that's ever happened. That really made me regret my 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:54.719 life choices. I should have just been a professional dance 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:58.480 I should have just pursued dance and been a dancer. 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:02.760 But alas, I'm happy with what I'm where I'm at, 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:05.000 So it's fine. No, you were even you were really 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.040 good and you were fun to follow along. So that 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:12.200 was if anyone wants to go watch your experience semi finals. 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:14.160 But you know, I had a few breakdowns along the 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:16.640 way because it's like, you know, I'm not a dancer. 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:21.480 It was it was in the bottom or yeah, me 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:25.600 and Gleb we're in the bottom like all the time, glove. 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:34.319 At the time, I was I was separated. Interesting question, Yeah, yeah, 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:37.920 I was separated. Um, but yeah, no, it was to 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:41.040 talk about that another time. But it was it was 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:44.360 a fun it was it was. It was. It was 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:49.240 crazy because I feel like it's just mentally just messes 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:52.040 you up, you know, because you're like you're you and 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:54.520 you are successful and then you go on a show 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:58.000 and you're like, I suck and it makes you feel 0:13:58.000 --> 0:13:59.320 like you're just I don't know. For me, it was 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:01.199 a it was a kind of it was fun. I 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:03.600 would actually love to go back and then have more 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:07.560 fun with it, yeah, and not be like miserable with 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:14.840 my marriage. How your oh I got divorced. Yeah, so 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:21.960 speaking of catfish, um oh man, we can laugh about 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:24.840 it now, I know, but I will tell you like 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.520 it's been you know now in like the dating world 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.600 and like the terrified of being like catfished, right because 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:32.840 like a lot of times you meet people online or 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:36.600 you know, dating apps, or remember one time and when gosh, 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:39.960 before I met my ex husband, I went on a 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:41.720 I think it was I don't even know. I think 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:44.920 it was okay Cupid, and I met with this guy, 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:46.960 but he was like not what he had the height 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:48.640 he was at like he said he was like six 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:50.280 foot and I show up and he's like five foot. 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:53.360 I'm like, is that catfished or no? Yeah, well actually 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:55.040 that's funny. I just I was just talking to someone 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:58.000 I can't remember the who, but who is in a 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:02.680 relationship now with a girl. But when they when when 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:07.760 they met, he was shocked because you know, the pictures 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:11.880 that she had posted we're either from a long enough 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:15.520 ago and or had been edited and altered to make her, 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:19.920 you know, look a lot thinner than she is. And 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:24.200 if she had posted photos of herself the way she 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:28.200 really looked, they probably would not have gone out with them, 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:31.560 but they did and they amazingly it didn't matter and 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:34.120 they actually ended up in a relationship. But yeah, it's happening. 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.160 A lot of the people are obviously doing whatever they 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:40.880 can to make themselves as as appealing as possible. And 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:46.080 I think the word is is technically kitten fishing. Um 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:50.960 where you're you, but you're sort of bending and blurring 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:58.240 the lines women want to be. Yeah, like there's that 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.000 there's a little younger or yeah, I mean there's that 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:04.600 face app I mean there's there's one even filter on 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:06.640 Instagram that I tried using one time because I was like, oh, 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:09.360 my friend Caitlin looks so pretty, and I tried it 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:11.640 and I was like, oh my god, I look nothing 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:19.200 like myself. So I was like, no, Caitlyn Crosby, because 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:20.920 we don't, you know, we can't talk. We know, we 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:25.320 don't talk about Caitlin Bristow. We're good, I know, I 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:29.280 know I really like her. Anyway, cat fishing for sure, 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:35.560 still still happening more and more. Um Yeah, but like, 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:37.160 I mean, your show has been on for ten years, 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:40.400 so obviously it's still happening. We're going to have our 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:43.160 tend anniversary soon. We're about to Yeah, we're about to 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:46.120 actually have our tenure anniversary. And I'm actually at the 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:49.480 Catfish office in l A right now about to go 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:51.720 film another episode. I mean, we're just they just keep 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:55.880 coming in, the emails, the applications, there's no doesn't seem 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:59.080 to be any end. So it used to be you've 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:02.240 got catfished, like how did you get catfish? Ten years ago? 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:04.119 And there wasn't really the dating app were there's dating 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:06.720 apps ten years ago? There was just like that was 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:10.520 sort of early on, but not really no. I mean 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:15.960 I think it it tended to be primarily just sort 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:19.320 of through social media. Um, that was sort of where 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:22.240 the show started, which was, you know, I'm on Facebook, 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:25.000 I got this friend request this guy or girl seems 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:27.439 really sweet and cute, but they live far away, and 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.159 now we're talking and you know, or we met on 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:33.080 an a l chat room or on my Space, you 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:37.439 know like chat right. Yeah, um, I we even did 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:39.680 an episode once where people met on like a chat line. 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:44.159 I don't know if you remember that. You know, you 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:46.680 call in a phone number and you listen to people's 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:49.120 recordings where they're like, hey, I'm Jeff and I'm twenty five, 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:51.199 and then you're like, yeah, that sounds good. Then it 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:53.159 connects you with them. But I never used one, but 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:57.119 it's a thing, um anyway. So so there've been you know, 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.080 different forms over the years, obviously before the Internet, but 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:06.760 we're getting catfish, you know, through like letters, right, people 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:10.119 had pen pals, and it's throughout the ages. There have 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:13.600 been different ways. Um, but yeah, I mean now it's 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:17.320 just so easy. What's been like the saddest thing for 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:19.639 you over the years, Like, was there a story that 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:24.640 you actually felt like really bad for someone? But yeah, 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:29.160 for sure there have been. Um it's hard to separate 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:31.320 them in my brain when I kind of just try 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:33.520 to like go through the catalog of because I think 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:39.600 we've done almost two hundred episodes now and and sort 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:41.359 of pick pick one out. I mean, there have definitely 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:47.360 been people who I think we're more devastated or heartbroken 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:51.320 than others, um at sort of discovering the truth of 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:54.160 this relationship, whether it was because it was a longer 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:57.800 relationship or just because they had really thought this person 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:00.640 cared about them. Oh you know what it was there 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:02.440 was one that just came to mind. That was this girl, 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:04.720 um and I can't remember the names, but she was 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:07.120 she was a young black girl, and we took her 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:11.560 to meet this other black girl. It was the first 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:15.320 time she'd ever like dabbled in a same sex relationship, 0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:16.960 which was a big deal for her, and she was 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:20.800 really nervous about it. Um And I don't know if 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:23.840 she had come out fully to her sort of family 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:26.119 and friends. Um. And we took her to meet this 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:28.359 girl in San Francisco, and it turned out the girl 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:31.960 wasn't lying about who she was. She she was just 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:35.760 scamming her. She was just like using her for money. Mum. 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:40.600 And obviously the other girl was just so devastated. She 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:43.679 felt like she finally put herself out there and and 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:47.560 met a woman and had felt something, and it turned 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:51.280 out it was just kind of all fraud. It's a bumber, 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:55.560 especially like when you're trying to like something that's you know, new, 0:19:55.680 --> 0:20:06.000 and what's tips tips not to get catfished? Um, it's 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:13.320 getting getting cat fished, you know, just like you know 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:17.200 nowadays right with like COVID Right, I'm not I don't 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:21.359 want to try to say that they're similar, but like 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:23.560 you can take precautions, right, you can wear a mask, 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:27.000 and you can social distance, you can do all these 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:29.320 things that were all that are all like good and 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:33.760 good precautions to take. But you're there's always gonna be 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:36.480 a vulnerable spot, right, There's always gonna be some way 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:39.480 in that you can't predict or that you're not looking 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:41.719 out for or you let your guard down for a second. 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:46.040 Um And and I think it's the same with like love, right, 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:49.679 I mean, no matter how closed up someone as or 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:52.240 how many times they've been burned, or if they have 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:55.960 trust issues, like if the right person with the right 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:59.320 message at the right time catches you kind of off guard. 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:03.240 I think people are so desperate for affection and attention 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:06.800 that there quick to forget that Oh my god, wait 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:10.119 a second, this person. I don't know this person. We 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:14.320 don't have neutual friends. You know, their their profile is weird, 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:16.640 but like, but god, they're so sweet and oh they 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:18.119 make me feel so good, so like, let me just 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:20.119 talk to them. And then before you know it, that 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:24.159 sort of turns into a flirt flirting and then uh, 0:21:24.160 --> 0:21:30.040 you know, a daily the conversation and feelings like it's hard, 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:32.520 it's hard and so the trick, I guess is if 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:37.199 you can give yourself like a very strict rule that 0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:40.359 if you're talking to someone that you don't know in person, 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:45.840 they have to video chat with you. Um, you know, 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:48.320 they have to have a certain sort of level of 0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:53.840 presence online, whether it's photos with friends and tagged accounts 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:57.280 and like people that you interact like. I'd always think 0:21:57.280 --> 0:21:59.520 it's weird when I talked to people on the show 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:00.920 and I'm like, you've been talking to them for a 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:04.000 few years, like, who are their friends or or are 0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:05.879 you friends with any of their friends? On Instagram? Who 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:10.080 do you fall? Like? Surely people post pictures of their 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:14.080 life and there like if they don't have anybody else 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:17.399 in their life that's visible that you can sort of 0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:22.080 contact or connect with or follow, like, that's weird. So 0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:23.560 I don't know, there's lots of ways to sort of 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:26.720 look out for it. But again, it's amazing what the 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:29.439 sort of brain and heart are able to do to 0:22:29.520 --> 0:22:32.439 convince people when they're something that they want, you know, 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:39.040