1 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: Body Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. Death is a great equalizer, 2 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: and when you're faced with the possibility of it, it 3 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: compels us to reflect. I think you see that a 4 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: lot with the people that are faced, unfortunately with terminal illnesses. 5 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: But what if you don't have a terminal illness, but 6 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: yet you have a suspicion that you might die? And 7 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: I don't mean of old age, that somebody in your 8 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 1: world has an end for you, somebody that you love, 9 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 1: that you trust, that you've created a family with as 10 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: their sights, I'm possibly killing you. Today we're going to 11 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: talk about a woman who, over a period of year 12 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: years and through court proceedings, board testimony from the grave 13 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: against her husband. Today we're going to talk about the 14 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: poisoning homicide of Julie Jensen. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and 15 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:24,839 Speaker 1: this is Bodybacks. Joining me today is Dave mac Dave 16 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: is a crime reporter with Crime Online. They always tell 17 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 1: us when we go to seminars and these sorts of 18 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: things as death investigators, one of the base rules is 19 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: that if you have a homicide, look for some stranger 20 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: in a dark alley. You don't suspect somebody that you've 21 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: never met or come across. They always tell you to 22 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: look at those that are in the inner circle. And 23 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: the case that we're talking about on bodybacks today, boy 24 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: talk about being in the inner circle. I'm talking about 25 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: in such an intimate way that you've got a case 26 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: where you've got a caregiver that brought about the death 27 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: of his wife for years. 28 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 2: I would tell folks that if anything violin never happened 29 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 2: to my wife, police's going to look at my library 30 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 2: of books and they'll see all the crime books that 31 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 2: I've got. They would go ahead and slap the bracelets 32 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 2: on and take me downtown. That would be it. In 33 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:25,959 Speaker 2: this particular case with Mark Jensen, police immediately, I mean 34 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 2: the investigators, they get on scene and you've got a 35 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 2: woman dead in her own home. Who are we going 36 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 2: to look at? There's the husband. We often hear that 37 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 2: term rush to judgment. Well, it's not a rush to judgment. 38 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 2: It's just the facts of the case are laid out 39 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 2: in front of you. In certain evidence has kind of 40 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 2: a timestamp on it. In this particular case, we're talking decades. 41 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 2: We're talking a quarter of a century before justice can 42 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 2: even be meted out. Mark Jensen met Julie Griffin back 43 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 2: and we're talking nineteen eighty one. Here, Julia is working 44 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 2: at a Sears department store. Mark was a student. They 45 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 2: were both students in college. Mark graduated, Julie didn't. They 46 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,959 Speaker 2: moved to this place called Pleasant Grove. Just sounds like 47 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 2: a nice place to raise a family. They did have 48 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 2: two children. The children were eight and three at the 49 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 2: time of Julie's death. We're looking at a relationship that 50 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 2: was not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but 51 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 2: there was something that Julie did that Mark couldn't let 52 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 2: go of, and that's what led to what we're about 53 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 2: to talk about. 54 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: Back to what you had said earlier, Dave, it's not 55 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: from an investigative standpoint. I'm not talking about the general 56 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: public here. That's neighbors and that sort of thing. For 57 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: us in the world of investigations, it is not a 58 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: rush to judgment. It is a need to assess. It's 59 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: a need to assess and consider all of the possibilities 60 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: that surround the case. Because when you have an individual 61 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: that dies in an intimate setting, and we're talking about 62 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: in one of the prosecutors in the case use the 63 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: term the marital bed. And you can draw anything you 64 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: want to from that, But that term the marital bed, 65 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: it implies and I know that that's what the prosecutor 66 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: was getting at. It implies a certain level of intimacy. 67 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: So when you're working a case and you think who 68 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: would have access to Julie Jensen within her domicile, within 69 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: her bedroom, on her bed, you don't have any signs 70 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: at the scene of forced entry or struggle. That's kind 71 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: of our benchmark, isn't that. You hear that in every 72 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 1: television show. We'd look for those sorts of things, busted 73 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: out windows, an overturned furniture. There's no evidence to that. 74 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: You have to have the means, you have to have access, 75 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: you have to have opportunity. I think in a case 76 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 1: like Julie's case, you have to be able to control. 77 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 1: You have to be able to control the situation. And 78 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: that goes to this other point that you made about 79 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: the relationship that they had. This marriage was marked by 80 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 1: Infidelitylie transgressed several years before, and the husband just he 81 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: could not get past that, and of course he wound 82 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 1: up being unfaithful as well. And so you look at 83 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: that and you think about motivation, who would want to 84 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 1: do this, and how much. Sometimes the scars the assessment 85 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: that you're doing from a forensic standpoint, the trauma is 86 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: not necessarily all external that you're looking at, because people think, no, 87 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: when you have a case where somebody is very rageful, 88 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: in a case of bludgeoning, for instance, they're going to 89 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: just beat somebody to a bloody pulp with either their hands, 90 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: or they're going to beat them with some heavy object, 91 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: or perhaps they're going to get a knife. Intimate cases 92 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: that we've covered, certainly on body bags, where you think 93 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: about somebody as cut and stabbed multiple times, we talk 94 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: about things like overkill. That doesn't exist in this case, 95 00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: but I would submit I think for the listeners to 96 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: consider this, the way in which Julie died and met 97 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: her end is as equally horrific. And it's hard to 98 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: kind of express that to people that are not exposed 99 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: to poisons, because that's what we're going to talk about 100 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: in other associated factors. It's really hard to take the 101 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: measure of it when you begin to think what a 102 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: languishing death this was that Mark subjected her to. 103 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 2: Here's what we're really looking at. We both alluded to it. 104 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 2: I'm going to throw it out there. Julie Jensen had 105 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 2: a two day affair. Two days, that was it, and 106 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 2: it was with a person that she had a very 107 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 2: low opinion of. Later on just she said not very 108 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 2: many kind things about him. She really regretted it. It 109 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,359 Speaker 2: was just a two day lapse of judgment that she 110 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 2: apologized for, tried to make right, and it just Mark 111 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 2: Jensen wouldn't let it go. For the next several years. 112 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 2: He started plotting and planning what he was going to 113 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 2: do to get rid of her. Jensen. And when we 114 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 2: think about getting on the internet and looking for things, 115 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 2: we know how police use that to find out what 116 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 2: we've been looking for, what we've been reading, what are 117 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 2: our habits? And I don't think of that when I 118 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 2: think of the late nineties, the mid and late nine 119 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 2: I don't at all. 120 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you mentioned that because that was striking 121 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: to me. You know, that happened in the searches that 122 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: you're referring to. This is back in nineteen ninety eight. 123 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: I can only imagine that the people that were involved 124 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: in this case thought, Wow, this is something new fangled. 125 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: We're we're using a computer to kind of pry into 126 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: somebody's life and assess what they were doing. It was 127 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: new stuff back then, not like. 128 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 2: Today, and that's the thing, so he doing all these searches. 129 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 2: I guess he didn't even think for a moment that 130 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 2: this could be used against him later on, as it was. 131 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 2: But bottom line is, from the time the affair was discovered, 132 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 2: he plotted her demise and Mark Jensen apparently was not 133 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 2: that lie about it either, because Julie fairly quickly started 134 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 2: seeing what he was doing. She noticed changes in his habits, 135 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 2: noticed he was doing things different, so she started kind 136 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 2: of being a private eye. She started investigating him. She 137 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 2: started watching what he was doing. And it got to 138 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 2: the point where Mark's telling people that Julie's depressed and 139 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 2: is mentally not there. She's telling her best friends, neighbors 140 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 2: that she is not suicidal, to the point where she 141 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 2: writes a letter and it is to her neighbor if 142 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 2: anything happens to me, We hear about these movies and stuff, 143 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 2: but this happened in real life. If anything happens to me, 144 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 2: I didn't do it to myself. You gotta look at Mark, 145 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 2: my husband. When police were investigating, they're trying to figure out, hey, 146 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 2: how she died and two what led up to it? 147 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 2: In the fall. She died December third, nineteen ninety eight. 148 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 2: But in the fall in September, he Mark Jensen gets 149 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 2: drunk at a a business conference. He was in financial business, 150 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,959 Speaker 2: and he gets drunk with this guy, ed Klug. They 151 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 2: start talking about their bad marriages, and Jensen goes further 152 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 2: and talks about ways to kill his wife that he 153 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 2: has found online that can't be discovered, that he could 154 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 2: poison her. He was very specific. Now they were both drunk, 155 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 2: but ed Klug was like, dude, divorce is an option, 156 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,839 Speaker 2: and he Jensen wouldn't let go. He's not just thinking. 157 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 2: He's studying. And he decides ethanol gli called anti freeze. 158 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 2: And this is before any freeze was changed. It used 159 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 2: to be kind of a sweet liquid that looked drinkable, 160 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 2: and so that was the method that Mark Jensen chose. 161 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 2: What would that do to somebody if they were given 162 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 2: any freeze over a period of time. 163 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: Well, this is kind of a slow role, if you will, 164 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: relative to what was going on in their relationship. And 165 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: you're right, it did have a sweetness to it back then. 166 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: And here's the thing used to put out. There were 167 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: these warnings with anafhreees, particularly when people would do they're 168 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: all maintenance at home, you know, the days of the 169 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: so called shade tree mechanic. Run down and have somebody 170 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: flush your radiator for you and then put in new 171 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 1: anafhrees and you do all changes and all that sort 172 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: of thing. And one of the things that would happen 173 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: many times is that people would discard anaphreeze or leave 174 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: it lying about. Well, it does have a sweetness. And 175 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: probably those animals within a neighborhood that we're most attractive 176 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: would be dogs. You know, they're driven by their noses, 177 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: and they come up to this and boy, they put 178 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: their tongue to it, and it's got a real sweetness 179 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 1: to it. They lap it up and take on a 180 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: big dose of it at one time. I mean, you know, 181 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: it's like eating cake to them. Probably it's just very satisfying. 182 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: And then the next thing, you know, you've got a dog. 183 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 1: If you're observing the dog, the dog appears. If the 184 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:01,319 Speaker 1: people can imagine this to be inebriated, you know, they're 185 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: kind of disoriented, they're stumbling, you know, their gait is unsteady. 186 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: These sorts of things, and it really impacts them very 187 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: acute sense when the dogs would take on this much. 188 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 1: But here's the thing. The dogs would eventually die. And 189 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:19,959 Speaker 1: many people, I think for a long time, we're thinking, 190 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 1: you know, how in the world did my dog die? 191 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: Was it some kind of disease that they succumb to. No, 192 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: it was actually poisoning. And there are a number of 193 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: cases out there where people have used or had used 194 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: antaphreeze in the past to poison local animals that were 195 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: walking through. If you can imagine people did want dogs 196 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: in their yard, for instance, are people that were angry 197 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: at their neighbor, they would put out a bowl of 198 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: antifreeze mixed with water or juice or something like that, 199 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: and they would give it to the dog, and the 200 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: dog would die. They would succumb to it. But in 201 00:11:54,600 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: Julie Jensen's case, you've gotten Mark who is slowly poisoning 202 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: her over period of time, where he's giving her bits 203 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 1: of antifreeze that he's introducing actually into glasses of orange juice. 204 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: So it would have been essentially undetectable to the palette 205 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: that sweetness that's associated with orange shoes. And you're taking 206 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: this on and it will over a period of time 207 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: the ethlene glycol, which is the primary ingredient in anti freeze, 208 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: would begin to build up. It attacks multiple areas within 209 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: your system. It's devastating to the kidneys in particular and 210 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: the liver. You'll have individuals that will go into renal 211 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: failure as a result of it. After they have been 212 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: given US for a protracted period of time, they just 213 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: become very toxic. They're always in a stupor if they 214 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:50,839 Speaker 1: have it on board and they're being kind of I 215 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: don't want to use term microdose because that implies that 216 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:58,079 Speaker 1: it's a very, very minuscule amount, because it's not necessarily 217 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: to the point where it's just a drop. It takes 218 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: more than simply a drop in order to accomplish this. 219 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: But as they're being dosed daily by a caregiver in 220 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: this case like Mark, they become progressively sicker. And isn't 221 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:17,079 Speaker 1: that interesting because this goes to the mindset of a poisoner. 222 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: Poisoners traditionally have been portrayed as individuals that are stealthy, 223 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,839 Speaker 1: they're quiet, many times, kind of reserved. They like to 224 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: be in control of things, and that goes to the 225 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: heart of being able to have access, right, how could 226 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,679 Speaker 1: you consistently have access to somebody that you wanted to 227 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: poison them? Now? Yeah, I mean you could give somebody 228 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: a big door dose of some type of horrible substance 229 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: like arsenic perhaps and they would keel over. But if 230 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: you didn't want somebody to suspect that it was you, 231 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 1: and you have access to them daily, you're giving them 232 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: this while pretending to care for them. Because as she's 233 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: getting the substance, she's getting sicker and sicker and sicker, 234 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 1: and that actually opens up the door for him to 235 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: become a sympathetic person. He's a good husband. He's standing there, 236 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: he's next to her bedside, he's taking care of her 237 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: as she's feeling bad, and all the while he's given 238 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: her antifreeze. Do you think of somebody that can get 239 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: close enough in order to apply some kind of toxin 240 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: to an individual and set it up in such a 241 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: way that you can guarantee that they're going to ingest it, 242 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: that it will be introduced into their body. But you know, 243 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: poisoning requires patience, and I think that perhaps Jensen may 244 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: have run out of patients in this case. He just 245 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: couldn't wait for his wife to die. 246 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 2: Joe, that is probably one of the sickest, saddest things 247 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 2: to think about with somebody that is the mother of 248 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 2: your children at this point, somebody you have known for 249 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 2: seventeen years, you've built a life together, and you have 250 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 2: come to this point in December of nineteen ninety eight 251 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 2: because of a two day affair that took place seven 252 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 2: years before. You've plotted, You've planned, you've researched to find 253 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 2: out the best, as you mentioned, stealthy way of killing 254 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 2: your spouse and getting away with it. The problem is 255 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 2: what Mark Jensen didn't realize. He wasn't the smartest person 256 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 2: in the room. It was probably his wife. Julie actually 257 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 2: figured out something was going on, and she started talking 258 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 2: to friends. Just like he drunkenly exposed himself to an 259 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 2: acquaintance during a conference. Julie too, had outed him to neighbors, 260 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 2: saying she suspected something was afoot, keep an eye on 261 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 2: him if anything happens to me, and she wrote a letter, 262 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 2: if anything happens to me, it's look at Mark, and 263 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 2: when you look at she died. After the anti freeze, 264 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 2: Mark got tired of waiting, so he adds ambient. She's 265 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 2: now in the marital bed. She is not dead. Mark 266 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 2: decides he's got to get this done. He has got 267 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 2: to put her out of her his misery actually, and 268 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 2: so he suffocates her, which I can't. You know, oftentimes 269 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 2: you'll talk about a knife is such a personal thing 270 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 2: to use a personal weapon? How about your bare hands? 271 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 2: What kind of person can actually suffocate, kill, strangle the 272 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 2: life out of somebody that they've built a life with. 273 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: It's a tough thing to assess looking back on it, 274 00:16:56,320 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: but that came up. The forensic pathologist did did a 275 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 1: fantastic job because they had a lot of speculative information 276 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: to begin with. Because you know, when you look at 277 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: let me break it down this way, when you're doing 278 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:16,640 Speaker 1: a toxicology exam relative to the death of someone, we 279 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 1: use a standard panel toxicologically, and we draw blood, We 280 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 1: draw urine if there's urine available, If it's in the bladder, 281 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: we take vitreous fluid, which is from the eye. Many 282 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: people don't know that, and sometimes we'll take bile if 283 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: the gallbladder still exists, if it's still in place, and 284 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 1: you'll run what's referred to as a standard panel and 285 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 1: you're looking for stuff that is common that you think 286 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,159 Speaker 1: might have a contributory factor to this person's death. You 287 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: begin to think about things like opiate's. Do you think 288 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:58,400 Speaker 1: about morphine, cocaine, metabolite, benzodiazepine. Oh, you even look for solicylates, aspirin, THC, 289 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 1: A lot of the things that are kind of part 290 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: and parcel of the world that we live in and 291 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: things that people might have access to. You're not going 292 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: to go in there looking for ethlene glycol It's just 293 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that it's not detectable. It's just not 294 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:15,959 Speaker 1: something you're going to do on the first pass. And 295 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 1: so you have to have other answers. And when they 296 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: began to take a look at her body, and I'm 297 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 1: talking about from an external manifestation, not what was going 298 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: on internally, she had some kind of what we refer 299 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 1: to as post mortem artifacts on kind of the right antier, 300 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: which is the front aspect of her chest, her arm, 301 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 1: her face, and it was non distinctive really, But the 302 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: conclusion that they came to was she had in fact 303 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: been smothered. And it's often been stated that smothering is 304 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: one of the most difficult traumatically related causes of death 305 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 1: to kind of termine. Many times we'll look at with 306 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: the standard smothering and smothering. When I'm referring to this, 307 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: I'm talking about where you have a surface that is 308 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: either applied to the face or the face is pressed 309 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 1: down into and the airway is essentially accluded. At that 310 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 1: point in time, you can't breathe through your nose in 311 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: your mouth, there's not a lot you can look for. 312 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: You don't have the same pressures associated with that where 313 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,439 Speaker 1: you're always going to get the little particular hemorrhages in 314 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: the eye. But one of the things we'll look for 315 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 1: is to say, for instance, at the frenula are intact. 316 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 1: Those are those little connective bits of tissue in the 317 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: upper lip and the lower lip. You can kind of 318 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: feel that with your tongue, and sometimes you'll get little 319 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: lacerations in there. We see this with hands smothering with 320 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 1: small children. They're fighting against you know, that primal instinct. 321 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: But in Julie's case, we had mentioned the Anna freeze 322 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: that she had on board, but you know she also 323 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: had ambient, which is a sleep aid which is going 324 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: to make you groggy, and in addition, to that. She 325 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 1: had also been prescribed Paxel at some point in time, 326 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 1: which is an antidepressant, anti anxiety medication. People that have 327 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: OCD perhaps will be given a Paxel. So you've got 328 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: these kind of substances in her system that are kind 329 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: of depressing her system, if you will. From a respiratory standpoint, 330 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,479 Speaker 1: the antifreeze has the effect. It's an alcohol, so it 331 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: has an effect that kind of euphoric effects, sleepiness, drowsiness, 332 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,880 Speaker 1: all those sorts of things that impact us as well. 333 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: But it just wasn't getting the job done. So what 334 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 1: the friends of Cathologists determine is that more than likely 335 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: Mark Jensen actually did something called burking b u r 336 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: ki ng. It's an old term, and let me kind 337 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: of give you the history of it, because this is 338 00:20:53,720 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: quite amazing. Burking used to occur many years ago when 339 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 1: people were attempting to kill individuals in order to turn 340 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: their corpses over to anatomist and just let that sink 341 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: in just for a second, to turn them over to 342 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: anatomist who would dissect the bodies. In the context of 343 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 1: medical schools, they wanted healthy cadavers that were free of trauma. 344 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: Back in years and years ago, you didn't want somebody 345 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: had been run over, bright carriage or shot because you 346 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,959 Speaker 1: couldn't appreciate all of the anatomical points of reference that 347 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: sort of thing, because they've been disrupted. But if you 348 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: burk somebody and it actually comes from a guy's name, 349 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: you sit on their back, or you could sit on 350 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: their chest and literally sit on them. And that's what 351 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 1: they think that Jensen actually did. He sat on the 352 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: right aspect of her what would be called by physicians 353 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: her posterior right chest, which essentially is the right side 354 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 1: of her back, and pressed her faith into that pillow. 355 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 1: As her breathing became progressively more and more labored, she said, come, 356 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: She's to come, because she couldn't breathe anymore. And this 357 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 1: turns out to be a smothering. 358 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 2: Beyond the fact that you're bringing up terms such as 359 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 2: burking and thing that will now haunt my nightmares. I 360 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 2: have to think, Joe, that Mark Jensen had such a 361 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:30,360 Speaker 2: powerful urge to wreak havoc on his wife, the plotting, 362 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 2: the planning, and when everything came to an end, he didn't, 363 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 2: she wasn't dead, and he was left with this. So 364 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,640 Speaker 2: I'm betting that he had to look up a way 365 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 2: to suffocate her without leaving a mark, because when I 366 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 2: think of strangling, I think of the little piece in 367 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 2: the throat, the little bone that that one gets cracked 368 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 2: into strangling, and then you've got the blood in the eyes, 369 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 2: those telltale signs of somebody who's been strangled. So if 370 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 2: you do this as you called it, burking does the 371 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 2: victor and then still have those types of marks. 372 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 1: There's another term that could be applied here, compression asphyxia. Anatomically, 373 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: all these areas would be compromised. They're not going to 374 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: be working at their full capacity. So let's just just 375 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: think about this for a second. She's and I've seen 376 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,679 Speaker 1: the crime scene photos of her. There, she's lying on 377 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: the right aspect of the bed. We all have a 378 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: particular side, you know, that we choose to sleep on. 379 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,640 Speaker 1: There's a night stand there. She's lying on the right 380 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 1: side of the bed, her head turned to the right 381 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 1: in this image, and she's got her The bed covers 382 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: are pulled up, just just covering her waist. Her body 383 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: was positioned in such a way that he could have 384 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 1: sat down on her because she's really near the edge 385 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: of the bed. He could have sat down on her 386 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,959 Speaker 1: as if you were sitting on a chair, and his 387 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 1: full weight is going to be compressing down on her chest. 388 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,679 Speaker 1: What do we require in order to breathe? Well, one 389 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 1: of the ways we assess many times if someone is 390 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: still live, and you'll see physicians make note of this, 391 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: they'll say, the chest is still rising and falling. Well, 392 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: that gives us an idea that they're in taking air 393 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: and they're expelling their at that point in time. And 394 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: as he's sitting there, he has the ability to take 395 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: his left hand, if you'll imagine just taking your left 396 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,640 Speaker 1: hand as his buttocks is placing pressure on her. He's 397 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,920 Speaker 1: taking his left hand and pressing her head down into 398 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: the pillar and the mattress so that her nostrils are 399 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,160 Speaker 1: blocked and her mouth is blocked as well. So not 400 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,439 Speaker 1: only can her chest not rise and fall, but her 401 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: airway is blocked as well. So it's almost a guarantee 402 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,159 Speaker 1: when you've got somebody whose system is depressed like hers 403 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 1: was by these agents that she had on board, that 404 00:24:46,800 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: she's going to die, and in fact she did. If 405 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: you were faced with your own mortality, realizing that there 406 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: is a probability that you're going to die, perhaps at 407 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: someone's hand other than her own. When faced with the 408 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: possibility that you might die, what would you do, particularly 409 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: if you suspected that someone had you in their sights. 410 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: In Julie Jensen's case, she penned a letter. She penned 411 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 1: a letter and gave it to her neighbor Davy. We 412 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: don't come across cases like this very often. 413 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,360 Speaker 2: No, In this particular case, that letter became a big 414 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 2: issue in court because she wrote it and it was 415 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 2: considered and I guess, I mean, Joe, you've dealt with this. 416 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,159 Speaker 2: I'm sure with forensics and trials and things like that, 417 00:25:55,160 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 2: that when somebody writes this down, okay, of what they suspecting. 418 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 2: To be clear, they're not out and out accusing anybody 419 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 2: of anything, just merely saying, if anything happens to me, 420 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 2: I am not suicidal and I would not take my 421 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 2: own life. You need to look at Mark, my husband. 422 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 2: And that's exactly what she did. 423 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: No, there's a concept in the law that's referred to 424 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: as a dying declaration, and most of the time that 425 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 1: applies to let me give you for instance, let's say 426 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: an individual has been traumatized in some way to the 427 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 1: point where they suspect that they are dying and let's 428 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: just I don't know. They're riding in the back of 429 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 1: an ambulance and they make this spontaneous comment that so 430 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: and so did this to me, and then they wind 431 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: up succumbing to that injury. Well, that's weighted in a 432 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: particular way in the eyes of the court. Now here's 433 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: the caveat. If you don't die, that statement doesn't have 434 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: the same value, all right. So that's kind of an 435 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 1: interesting little side note. It's called a dying declaration. And 436 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: the old though legal way of looking at this, and 437 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: this is kind of kind of an interesting statement. Is 438 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: that probably going to get the phraseology wrong, but it's 439 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: something paraphrase like this, an individual does not want to 440 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: go to God with a lie in their mouth. That 441 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: sounds very early English common law, doesn't it. So it's 442 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: the litmus test. You're not going to lie right before 443 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: you die, because you're going to face judgment for that. 444 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,919 Speaker 1: So if you're going to put a truth meter to it, 445 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: that statement suddenly becomes has more validity to it than 446 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,880 Speaker 1: if you're just in healthy condition you make this statement, 447 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: all right. So when she wrote that letter, it had 448 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,679 Speaker 1: some weight to it. It certainly had some weight. And 449 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: then we were talking, David, you had mentioned that this 450 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: happened in nineteen ninety eight, and you think this guy 451 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: wasn't He wasn't hooked up on charges for her death 452 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,439 Speaker 1: until what was it two thousand and two? Is that 453 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,639 Speaker 1: what that was? It was two thousand and two, And 454 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: then he didn't stand trial in the first trial until 455 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, and that letter was actually admitted 456 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: his evidence at that point in time. 457 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 2: It was a big part of the investigation. Joe the detective, 458 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 2: on seeing the day they came to the house, Julie 459 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 2: Jensen had not been quiet in the months leading up 460 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 2: to her death. She actually had left messages for the 461 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 2: police saying she was afraid her husband was trying to 462 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,919 Speaker 2: kill her. And the detective had been on vacation for 463 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 2: a week. When he got back, he listens to his 464 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 2: voicemails and lo and behold, here's Julie Jensen saying, I'm 465 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 2: really afraid my husband's going to kill me, And lo 466 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 2: and behold, they get a call Julie Jensen has died 467 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 2: in her bed just because somebody says, I think my 468 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 2: husband's trying to kill me. She could be trying to 469 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 2: frame him, and police are not going to just take 470 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 2: that and say, oh, we got to get him now. 471 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 2: They're going to do what anybody would do and say, well, 472 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 2: maybe there's more afoot. And actually that's what Mark Jensen's 473 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 2: team tried to say, that Julie Jensen was so depressed 474 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 2: and everything else that she wanted to commit suicide. And 475 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 2: it's like the movie Gone Girl. Make Mark Jensen look 476 00:28:58,320 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 2: guilty of murder. 477 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: Try to blame him for this in advance, and this 478 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: kind of postmortem framing, if you will, which is fascinating 479 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: construct in and of itself. Are you going to that link? 480 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: And she had made no secret about telling people within 481 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: her circle that she felt in danger. But you know, 482 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 1: the sad thing about this, this comes down to a 483 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: mother's love. She had two children, and by all accounts, 484 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: she was a fantastic mama, and she did not want 485 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: to walk away from her family, this creation, this familial 486 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: unit that she had created along with Mark. After all 487 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: of these years, she had two sons that she was 488 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: very proud of that were the center of her universe 489 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: and she did not want to leave them. And just 490 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: imagine that you're a mother, you have the sense that 491 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 1: you're in danger. But yet you've got these two young kids, right, 492 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 1: they might be in danger as well, perhaps that if 493 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: they're left with this guy, because if he'll killed a mom, 494 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 1: he might kill them as well. She wanted to be 495 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: there to protect them, and they were very young when 496 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: all of this. Their grown men obviously now, but when 497 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: this first occurred back in nineteen ninety eight. 498 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 2: They were eight and three. 499 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, they were eight and three. She had to be 500 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: there for them. You have this dynamic within the family 501 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: that you don't want to she doesn't want to leave them. 502 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: She has to be there to protect them. And she 503 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: had even said, she had even said on a couple 504 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: of occasions, that he's dangerous. She had an awareness of danger. 505 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: And she didn't just say it to the next door 506 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: neighbor means to be this letter, she had said it 507 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: to a number of people, including this detective that she 508 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: left a message for. 509 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 2: And that's the part that again you and I have 510 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 2: talked about a couple of times from the very beginning, 511 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 2: because she had spoken out to her enters or close friends. 512 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 2: She had reached out to police that they weren't looking 513 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 2: at Mark. But you can't just arrest somebody because somebody 514 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 2: said they might do something, and that's why they built 515 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 2: a case. It actually took a couple of months before 516 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 2: they ever actually sat down with Mark Jensen and interviewed him. 517 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 2: That was like March the following year, and in that interview, 518 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 2: which you can see online, they're pushing and trying to 519 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 2: get him to admit because the detective is like, dude, really, 520 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 2: how did it happen? How did she die? And Mark 521 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 2: Jensen stayed to this story. Hey man, she had been sick. 522 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 2: She was sick that morning and she just died. It 523 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 2: was only after they found out that he had been 524 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 2: having an affair with Kelly Leabonni. And by the way, 525 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 2: that affair began in September of nineteen ninety eight. Julie 526 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 2: dies December third. Additional little sidebar, Kelly Leabanni entered into 527 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 2: a sexual relationship with Mark Jensen two weeks after she 528 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 2: was married. She was a newlywed when she began having 529 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 2: a sexual relationship with Mark Jensen, whose wife turns up 530 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 2: dead three months later, and then he eventually marries Kelly Leabanni. 531 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 2: So there was a lot going on in this story. 532 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 2: In the interpersonal relationships that had Pete police swirling trying 533 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 2: to put together everything in in order to take a trial. 534 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 2: And as you mentioned, they did how to do two trials, 535 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 2: the first one it was in two thousand and eight, 536 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 2: and that letter from the grave, it became a focal 537 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 2: point of that first trial. 538 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: It did, and I think that in the second trial 539 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: they were not able to utilize that letter. But when 540 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: you have this physical evidence. Bringing this back around to 541 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: the physical evidence, you have the evidence that there was 542 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: actually an freeze in her stomach when she was autopsied, 543 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 1: and the toxicologists made a fantastic point from a stand even. 544 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: He said, that is not a substance that you would 545 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 1: expect to find in someone's system, let alone, you know, immediately, 546 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: in their stomach, and that implies that they had been 547 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: dosed in the short term. The toxicologist went on to 548 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 1: describe that she had been being dosed for a while, 549 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: so this was kind of an ongoing progression that was 550 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: portrayed in court, and they were able to put together 551 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: this timeline. You combine that with the idea that she 552 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 1: had in fact been smothered, it turns out that they 553 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: didn't need the letter. But I think the letter revealed 554 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: a lot. I'm Josep Scott Morgan and this is body Backs.