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Speaker 1: On the be Dol Cast. The questions asked if movies

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Speaker 1: have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends

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Speaker 1: and husbands? Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef and

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Speaker 1: best start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hello, and

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Speaker 1: welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Durante

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Speaker 1: Ja Loftus, and we're doing the Princess movie today. Well

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Speaker 1: that was a good intro, one of our best. Good job.

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Speaker 1: I think that we've been recording a lot lately, and um,

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Speaker 1: when we're recording more, I feel like the intros were

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Speaker 1: just like, um, the show is starting. I hope that's

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Speaker 1: okay with your permission. The show is starting. Um, but

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Speaker 1: this is our Betel Cast is a feminist movie podcast

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Speaker 1: that analyzes the role of female identifying characters in the

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Speaker 1: famous movie It's True and what do we do Well?

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Speaker 1: We use the Bechtel Test I ever heard of it?

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Speaker 1: Sometimes called I Don't Know Her, It's sometimes called the

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Speaker 1: Bechdel Wallace test, and it's a media metric created by

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Speaker 1: cartoonist Alison Bechdel, who knows who we are now confirmed

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Speaker 1: she has, but like she knows, she knows, she knows

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Speaker 1: we exist and that step one maybe steps yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: but Alison, if you eventually, you know, probably in when

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Speaker 1: you get to this episode, you'll hear this invitation for

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Speaker 1: you to come on the show anytime. Her favorite movie

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Speaker 1: is Groundhog Day, so there's I've just been like tapping

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Speaker 1: all my sources to find her favorite movies Groundhot Day,

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Speaker 1: so she'll hear that episode first. Yes we should. We

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Speaker 1: did to cover that one, but like re upload it

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Speaker 1: and be like, we know you're listening. Anyways, what's the

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Speaker 1: Betel test? Jeez, who knows if he said that and

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Speaker 1: then we didn't know what it was. Um, two female

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Speaker 1: identifying characters with names have to speak to each other

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Speaker 1: about something other than a man for at least two

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Speaker 1: lines of dialogue. That is our specific bar. Yes, so

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Speaker 1: let's let's demonstrate. Let's do it, hey, Caitlin, Yes, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: Um do you? Oh no, wait, that wasn't going to pass.

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Speaker 1: It's so hard to pass the backtel tests that passes.

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Speaker 1: We did it. I was literally about to bring up

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Speaker 1: the firefly's funeral and like that was a male phone. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I just can't get over the fact that they killed

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Speaker 1: the firefly. We're talking about the princess and the Frog today. Uh,

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Speaker 1: shall we bring our guests in? Yes, let's do it.

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Speaker 1: She's terrific. She's a wonderful comedian. She's so funny. It's

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Speaker 1: Lexi Grace. We're so excited to have you. I'm glad

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Speaker 1: to be here. I'm very excited. Yes, there's so much

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Speaker 1: to talk about today, starting with Lexie. What's your relationship

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Speaker 1: your history with this movie? So Princess and the Frog.

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Speaker 1: I actually saw it when it first came out, like

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Speaker 1: Christmas Day two thousand and nine. Yeah, yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: was in New York. I watched it with my mom.

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Speaker 1: We we did two movies back to back, that in

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Speaker 1: Sherlock Holmes and then well but yeah, I went and

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Speaker 1: saw it like I saw it opening It was either

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Speaker 1: opening week or like the second week. I think it

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Speaker 1: was opening week because like I feel like, as a

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Speaker 1: black woman, like it's really important to support because she

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Speaker 1: was like the first animated African American princess. But my

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Speaker 1: favorite African American princess would definitely be uh Brandy, Yes,

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Brandy. Cinderella. Yes, that's that was like

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Speaker 1: my formative Cinderella. She's so good. And then it's isn't

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Speaker 1: it Whitney Houston is the Fairy Godmother. Oh, that's a

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Speaker 1: special movie, special movie. And then and then I know

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Speaker 1: Whoopie Goldberg and the Prince have like an Asian Son, which, yes,

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Speaker 1: but that that movie was great. That's like the Rogers

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Speaker 1: and Hammerstein one too. Yeah, baby's got to see it.

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Speaker 1: You've never seen it, it's so. But I have seen

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Speaker 1: and this is not This is not a princess movie

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Speaker 1: because I don't think was sort of oz is Dorothy

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Speaker 1: is considered a princess, but like in the in the

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Speaker 1: extended universe, she's a princess adjacent. I would say, I

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Speaker 1: have seen the Ashanti and Queen Latifa Muppet Wizard of

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Speaker 1: oz which is it's okay, No, it's great, It's okay,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's one of the better like Muppet adaptation,

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Speaker 1: I think. So, yeah, I love that movie. I love Ashanti. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, you have to see Brandy Cinerella. Okay, oh

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Speaker 1: it's really people love it. But so you saw Princess

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Speaker 1: and the Frog in theaters. Awesome, So so did I.

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Speaker 1: I also saw it as a double feature, and for

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Speaker 1: some reason, I thought the other movie was Terminator Salvation,

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Speaker 1: but I looked up the release date of that movie,

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Speaker 1: and the timing doesn't line up because that movie did

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Speaker 1: come out in oh nine, but it was in May,

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Speaker 1: so that wouldn't have that doesn't So I don't know

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Speaker 1: what the other movie was. But I did see The

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Speaker 1: Princess and the Frog in theaters, and I hadn't rewatched

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Speaker 1: it until this week to prep for the episode. But

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Speaker 1: I'm very excited to talk about it, Jamie, what about you,

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Speaker 1: Sam sutt in theaters. Haven't seen it since I double

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Speaker 1: featured it with Avatar, which so it was like that day.

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Speaker 1: That day was a lot. That day was an absolute

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Speaker 1: lot um, but it was because I remember, like we

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Speaker 1: had tickets to Avatar. I think that we saw Avatar

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Speaker 1: first and then saw Princess in the Frog, which is

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Speaker 1: a weird order to do that. And I remember liking it,

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Speaker 1: but I wasn't watching it critically at all, but I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I like it. Diana is cool. Um, the songs are

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Speaker 1: pretty good. Is that Oprah's voice? Yes? Um, that's what

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Speaker 1: those are the thoughts I remember? Um, And then yeah,

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Speaker 1: I hadn't revisited it in in a while, but we

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Speaker 1: get a ton of requests for it and so it's

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Speaker 1: it's long overdue. I'm excited too, I mean, and it's

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Speaker 1: like it's it was frustrating to rewatch because you like

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Speaker 1: the elements of a movie I could like are there,

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Speaker 1: and then just everything kind of agreed. Like when I

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Speaker 1: watched it, like I was so excited for this, like

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Speaker 1: this like African American princess, and then I was like,

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Speaker 1: why does she have to do the most? Like she's

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Speaker 1: got a clean she's got a cook she's like handling business.

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Speaker 1: Everyone's like why are you working? So like it's like

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Speaker 1: why can't she just be like a regular princess? You

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Speaker 1: know what I mean? Right right? And and she doesn't

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Speaker 1: get to visibly be a black woman for seventy of

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Speaker 1: the movie and why is this happening? Like every god?

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Speaker 1: And then she's got like the worst prints out of

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Speaker 1: a lot of them, because like most prints are like

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Speaker 1: generals or they have like an army, or they've got

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Speaker 1: some sort of wealth. He's like a broke for his

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Speaker 1: like the Prince is like not dissimilar to like Lena

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Speaker 1: Dunham's character and girls. It just like start to like

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Speaker 1: he's like I've been cut off. Now I'm going to

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Speaker 1: go to the city and see what happens, because I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I hate this parallel. This is horrible. It also reminded

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Speaker 1: me of Eddie Murphy and coming to America. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: a way better comparison. That's way more favorable, right, And

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Speaker 1: in that movie, like we know why he's coming to America.

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Speaker 1: In in Princess and the Frog, Navine is just like,

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Speaker 1: for some reason, I'm in New Orleans. Anyone's doing anything

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Speaker 1: except you know why Tiana is doing things even though

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Speaker 1: men are constantly trying to distract her from doing the

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Speaker 1: clear set goal she has. Um everyone levels You're like,

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Speaker 1: what is what are they doing? Yeah, everyone in the

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Speaker 1: movie is just like telling Tiana, They're like why are

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Speaker 1: you working so hard? Like why are you? And it's

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Speaker 1: not like she's working so hard that it's like detrimental,

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Speaker 1: because like I could understand, like she's working hard and

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Speaker 1: she's like missing like you know, birthdays and like her

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Speaker 1: you know, her dad's funeral or something like that. But

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Speaker 1: she seems to clearly have like a good work life

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Speaker 1: balance right right, Like it's she's working towards a clear goal.

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Speaker 1: Like that element of the story, You're like they're making

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Speaker 1: her do the most, but we know what she wants

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Speaker 1: and she's like capable and working really hard and she's

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Speaker 1: going to achieve your goal. And then they're like, well,

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Speaker 1: you can't achieve your goal until you're you get a

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Speaker 1: man a frogman involved, and you're just like, really, in

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Speaker 1: two thousand nine, we're still but we're still on that,

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Speaker 1: are still on that frustrating and also like, I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's so many issues with the shadow Man that Will

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Speaker 1: will talk about. But just like story wise, he didn't say,

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Speaker 1: like at first, you're just like he's just doing evil

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Speaker 1: Ship because and then he says if he almost exact

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Speaker 1: halfway mark of the movie, he finally reveals what his

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Speaker 1: motive is. You're like, why is this coming up? An

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Speaker 1: hour into the movie. He's like, oh, yeah, you know

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Speaker 1: how I've been doing all this evil ship for an hour?

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Speaker 1: Actually I just remembered it's for I hate John Goodman.

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Speaker 1: And you're like, what, Like it just is a mess?

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Speaker 1: Is a mess? Well? Should I try to describe the plot? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: In the recap, Yeah, we'll talk about what's there. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So we meet Tiana as a young girl. The year

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Speaker 1: is nineteen thirteen, and I know this because someone is

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Speaker 1: holding a newspaper that said Wilson just elected, And I

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Speaker 1: looked up what year Woodrow Wilson was elected in and

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Speaker 1: it was so I feel like they were trying to

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Speaker 1: tell us it was the nineteen oh But fast forward later. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: when she when she's um, I think when we see

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Speaker 1: Tiana as an adult, she's I think nineteen years old. Damn,

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Speaker 1: he's really counting on. You know. When Woodrow Wilson was

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Speaker 1: elected in like a very like throwaway visual, children will

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Speaker 1: be like, I guess Woodrow Wilson he was elected in

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirteen, So Titanic has been sunk for one year.

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Speaker 1: When the story the nation is in distress and we're

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Speaker 1: in New York, New Orleans is how you say it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know New Orleans. It's not how you say it.

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Speaker 1: And she loves cooking. It's her dream to open up

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Speaker 1: a restaurant with her father. Her mother is a seamstress

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Speaker 1: who makes dresses for this rich white girl, Charlotte, and

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Speaker 1: Tiana's mom also reads the Frog Prince to the girls.

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Speaker 1: Cut to Tiana as a young woman working two jobs

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Speaker 1: waiting tables. She's saving up money for this restaurant. She

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Speaker 1: sings the best song in the movie. I like almost

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Speaker 1: there a lot, that's a fun that's the that's the

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Speaker 1: banger for me. And this one, I like the song

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Speaker 1: at the very beginning, and I don't remember how it goes,

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Speaker 1: but it's something like there's a studio in the south end.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's like they're like poor provincial town. Yes exactly,

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Speaker 1: They're like, this is where we are. And that's so

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Speaker 1: she's saving up money for her restaurant. Her father has

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Speaker 1: since passed away. Um, so in this movie we have

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Speaker 1: a dead parent, but it's a dead father instead of

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Speaker 1: a dead mother. They really galaxy brained this one too,

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Speaker 1: because they're like, Okay, we're going to subvert the narrative

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Speaker 1: by killing her father instead of her mother. But still,

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Speaker 1: somehow her father and her relationship with her father is

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Speaker 1: the most. She's like stam, like every five seconds, it's like,

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Speaker 1: my dad, why did she even kill him? Why? If

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Speaker 1: he's going to be so looming over the story and yeah, sneaky,

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Speaker 1: Like even when the mom comes over, she brings like

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Speaker 1: it looks like a new pot and like it's sorry,

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Speaker 1: I'm jumping ahead, and she's like, oh, it's dad's pots.

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Speaker 1: And then her mom has the most regressive you and

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, there's a whole thematic thing that I want

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Speaker 1: to talk about. But there I really felt like they

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Speaker 1: pulled one over on us with like that. No, we

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Speaker 1: killed the dad this time, but don't worry, he's still

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Speaker 1: the most important parent. Okay. So then we meet Prince

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Speaker 1: Navin of Maldonia, which is a fictional country which I'm

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Speaker 1: guessing is right now Genovia and Aldovia. It's right between

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Speaker 1: Genovia and Aldovia, as mal Dona, Maldonia is not the

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Speaker 1: Prince Levin is from. Yes, he shows up to town

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Speaker 1: and Charlotte is trying to funk him, so she hires

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Speaker 1: Tianna to make a bunch of Beignet's for a ball

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Speaker 1: that she's throwing I guess in like Prince Novine's honor

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Speaker 1: or she's inviting him to the ball or something. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, but it's happening that night. And with the

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Speaker 1: money that Charlotte gives Tiana to make all these bennets,

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Speaker 1: her horny beignets just like Jesus, She's definitely Charlotte is

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Speaker 1: definitely like Blanch from Golden Girls, person like like younger,

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Speaker 1: like just chaotic, horny. I found that character to be

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Speaker 1: so profoundly annoying. Well again, I feel like that was

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Speaker 1: Disney trying to make commentary. I hate when Disney tries

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Speaker 1: to comment on their own work. It just always comes

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Speaker 1: off really annoying, where they're like, Oh, in a normal

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Speaker 1: Disney movie, she would be the princess, but now she's

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Speaker 1: a stupid jackass. You're like, that's not the direction with

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Speaker 1: that's why, right. But anyway, so with this money, Tiana

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Speaker 1: now has enough money too. I guess put a down

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Speaker 1: payment on the building that she wants to turn into

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Speaker 1: her Restaurant's huge, huge, It's like a million square feet.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how square footage works. Meanwhile, this creepy man,

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Speaker 1: the shadow Man, Dr Facilier, is like, hey, Prince Navine,

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Speaker 1: you're broke and you're here in town to marry a

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Speaker 1: rich girl. Let me help you with that. And at

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Speaker 1: first I thought he was there as like Mr. Exposition,

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Speaker 1: but then he gets to do stuff, but he does.

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Speaker 1: Like his first five lines are like, as we all

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Speaker 1: know you are a prince and you are here now,

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Speaker 1: but you don't have any money, Well what should you do?

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god? And also the prince right away.

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Speaker 1: It's like you're a fat man, right. Oh yeah, just

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Speaker 1: like fashion fashion fact. Right, And that character is I

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Speaker 1: guess Prince Navine's valet or something, Lawrence. So Dr Fasilier

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Speaker 1: goes to Lawrence and he's like, hey, you're tired of

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Speaker 1: being pushed around by all these rich people, right, let

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Speaker 1: me help you with that, And then Navine and Lawrence

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Speaker 1: kind of separately make a deal with the devil quote unquote.

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Speaker 1: Then it's the night of the ball and Charlotte is

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Speaker 1: dancing with Prince Navine and Tiana learns that her offer

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Speaker 1: for the restaurant that she put in what has been

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Speaker 1: outbid and unless she comes up with the money kind

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Speaker 1: of right away, the place will not be hers. Also,

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Speaker 1: the guys who are the realtors are dressed up as

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Speaker 1: a horse. Yes, I did laugh at that. There are

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Speaker 1: a few things I'm like, all right. What I like

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Speaker 1: is they retracted their offer right after like her and

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Speaker 1: her mom had like cleaned the place. Yeah, I guess

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Speaker 1: she had the keys. Yeah, And I think they're like, well,

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Speaker 1: it's cleaner now, so it's more valuables. Sell it for

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Speaker 1: more money. That's not with with that, Tiana sings when

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Speaker 1: she's cleaning stuff. I mean, I hate that she has

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Speaker 1: to be clean while she sings it. But that has

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Speaker 1: a pretty good song too. Yeah, it's not not almost there,

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Speaker 1: so it's almost there. That is almost there. Okay, yes,

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Speaker 1: that is almost there. And there's so many there's too

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Speaker 1: many songs. There's a lot of songs. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of songs, and I would say most of them are

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Speaker 1: not good. Went there almost their slaps, not a good

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Speaker 1: villain song, not a just mess. Yeah. Anyway, So Tiana,

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Speaker 1: learning that her her bid has been outbid, causes a

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Speaker 1: big spill and she gets food all over her. So

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Speaker 1: Charlotte loans her one of her fantasy dresses, and Tiana

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Speaker 1: is lamenting about losing her opportunity to own the restaurant.

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Speaker 1: And suddenly there's a frog right there, and that frog

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Speaker 1: can talk because he's Prince Navine. So we're like, wait

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Speaker 1: a minute, who's that guy who looks like Prince Navine

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Speaker 1: dancing with Charlotte downstairs? What? Anyway? So the frog is like, hey, Tianna,

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Speaker 1: please kiss me, and if you do, I will give

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Speaker 1: you money for the restaurant. Because he was like, this

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Speaker 1: is fine, this is fine, and he was hurt. It

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Speaker 1: seems like a fair offer. He wants her to kiss

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Speaker 1: him because because she's dressed up in this fancy gown,

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Speaker 1: he thinks that she's a princess, and I will break them.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he of all people, should know right that

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Speaker 1: not everyone he's ever met who's wearing a dress is

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Speaker 1: related to him, like or his royalty in the US.

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Speaker 1: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe there

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Speaker 1: has ever been any royal family based like there are

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Speaker 1: no monarchies, there's any time. Thank you so much. I

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Speaker 1: just wanted to make sure. What if I was like,

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Speaker 1: actually there is a king? How did you do? We've

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Speaker 1: got we've got I mean, now that we've got Megan,

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Speaker 1: maybe she's gonna I seem she hates being royalty, but

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Speaker 1: maybe she'll bring it over here and be like, hey,

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Speaker 1: for your consideration, for it's about time. And at this

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Speaker 1: point we're like, yeah, sure, I mean, our presidency isn't

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Speaker 1: really working out. Why there's well switched to maybe better

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Speaker 1: than right anyway, So um the frog is like, hey, Tiana,

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Speaker 1: let's kiss and she's like, okay, fine, if you're going

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Speaker 1: to help me get my restaurant, i'll do it. But

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Speaker 1: when she kisses him, he stays a frog, and Tiana

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Speaker 1: also turns into a another frog. This is one of

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Speaker 1: the well I have things to say about this. Later

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Speaker 1: they're just like, okay, magic is supposed to work for

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Speaker 1: distey princesses. I hate this subversion to where they're like,

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Speaker 1: you know, our first black and says we're gonna get

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Speaker 1: the magic to fuck her over here. Like why, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I'm just supposed to help. Okay. So now

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Speaker 1: they're both frogs and they have to and everyone's like frogs.

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Speaker 1: So they have to run away and escape this party,

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Speaker 1: and then they fly away with some balloons into the swamp.

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Speaker 1: Then we find out that Lawrence the Valet or valet

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Speaker 1: is who is occupying Navine's body, and Navine was turned

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Speaker 1: into the frog. This was all done by Dr Facilier,

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Speaker 1: who I think just around this time is about to

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Speaker 1: tell you why he's doing everything. Yeah, he for the

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Speaker 1: first half of the movie. You're just like chaos. I

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Speaker 1: guess it's just his outfit. He has to be mean

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Speaker 1: like the boy, so I guess. So he doesn't. He

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Speaker 1: wants to be rich, he wants to control the town,

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Speaker 1: and so he needs to This is again like one

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Speaker 1: of those I mean, and this happens with Disney Villains

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Speaker 1: a lot, but like the things he's doing to accomplish

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Speaker 1: his goals are so round. Yeah, you're just like why

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Speaker 1: would this be because he says like, I can't conjure

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Speaker 1: anything for myself, so I guess he was waiting for

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Speaker 1: this opportunity, even though it seems like he could have

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Speaker 1: killed Popa at any point, right right, Like it seems

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Speaker 1: like he always I got confused, especially in the back

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Speaker 1: half of this movie. There's so many like talismans and magic.

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Speaker 1: There's multiple magical items introduced to like supplement plant that

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Speaker 1: doesn't make sense where I lost track of the items.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, there's the thing where you got

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Speaker 1: to get the frog blood. Then there's like the voodoo

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Speaker 1: doll of John Goodman, and then there's like a necklace,

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Speaker 1: and then you're like, there's too many things going on,

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Speaker 1: and there's a whole conversation that will have about any

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Speaker 1: portrayal of that's the whole thing. But yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: losing track of all the different like the various magical

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Speaker 1: items that they're like, oh, well this is happening because

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Speaker 1: frog blood, and you're like, what but what his plan was.

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Speaker 1: He he wants like money and control of New Orleans,

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Speaker 1: and so he has to kill John Goodman. Is that

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Speaker 1: because he will inherit the He's doing like a sixty

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Speaker 1: forty split with Lawrence, who will inherit the money from

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Speaker 1: Charlotte once her father has died, and it could happen

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Speaker 1: to a long the money. Yeah, because women don't have

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Speaker 1: any right. So he's like, as soon as she gets married,

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Speaker 1: He's like, okay, women can just about now, so I

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Speaker 1: feel pretty comfortable, like this will work out in my

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Speaker 1: favorite oh yeah. And then also like also too, it's

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Speaker 1: weird because like there's no, like you said, in his plan,

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Speaker 1: there's no like afterthought, like okay, like after they kill him,

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Speaker 1: like then what like what will they do in Charlotte? Yes,

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Speaker 1: Like I feel like it's assumed to turn her into

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I guess that they could do that. I don't,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what. Like, it is a very convoluted plan,

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Speaker 1: for sure, and to the point where he even like

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Speaker 1: towards the end, when the plan starts to funk up,

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Speaker 1: he's like singing about how the plant is convoluted. He's like, well,

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Speaker 1: this is a small part of a much larger plan.

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Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, we know they're hard to be a

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Speaker 1: more direct way, right, but alas um. So then we

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Speaker 1: cut back to the frogs in the swamp and they

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Speaker 1: find out that they can talk to all animals, but

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Speaker 1: most of the animals want to eat them, so they

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Speaker 1: have to get away from all these like alligators and stuff.

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Speaker 1: But then they meet this friendly trumpet playing alligator, Lewis,

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Speaker 1: and he tells them about Mama Odie, who is a

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Speaker 1: who who does voodoo. She's a plot which and he's like, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe she can turn you back into humans. So they

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Speaker 1: embark on this quest to find Mama Odie. Meanwhile, Lawrence

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Speaker 1: is trying to marry Charlotte. So there's the whole like

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Speaker 1: Lawrence as Navine is trying to right and then did

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Speaker 1: that have to be there? Like I feel like you

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Speaker 1: can kind of do away with a part of that,

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Speaker 1: Like if you take Lawrence out, and then it's just

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Speaker 1: like Prince Navine is missing. I feel like you kind

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Speaker 1: of accomplished the same thing with a way less convoluted

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Speaker 1: still in this plot, but that's just you know, who

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Speaker 1: am I who are stupid? That's not true. But they've

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Speaker 1: hit a snag because the talisman that contains Navine's blood

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Speaker 1: is running out. So um dr Faciliate calls upon his

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Speaker 1: friends from the other side, which are like these shadow

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Speaker 1: demons to go find Frog Navine. Um So, back in

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Speaker 1: the swamp, they made this Cajun fly named Ray who

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Speaker 1: helps lead them to Mama ODIs and they get there

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Speaker 1: and Mama Odie is like, well, if Charlotte kisses Frog

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Speaker 1: Navine before midnight because she's technically a princess before midnight

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Speaker 1: because her father was voted King of Marty, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: like where who controls the magic that it would work, don't.

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Speaker 1: I also like that her gumbo pot is like a

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Speaker 1: crystal ball. Wait, You're just like wait, could it always

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Speaker 1: do that? And then like for a second when they

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Speaker 1: had the tibat, like when she puts the Tabasco sauce

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Speaker 1: in there, I was like, wait a minute, but then

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Speaker 1: I was like, that's kind of accurate though, sauce um.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, so if all this manages to happen, then

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Speaker 1: both Navine and Tiana as frogs will turn back into humans.

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Speaker 1: But meanwhile, Navine is to use an expression that the

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Speaker 1: kids are saying, he's catching some fields for Tiana, right,

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Speaker 1: and he's about to tell her that he loves her

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Speaker 1: and then also proposed to her. Question which is another

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00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 1: thing that's very treated as like, of course, because the

403
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Speaker 1: second that Charlotte meets Prince Navine, who's actually the other guy,

404
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,160
Speaker 1: she's they dance once and she's just like, I'm ready

405
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Speaker 1: to get married, right, which is like a weird like

406
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Speaker 1: movie trying to have it both ways, where it's like

407
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Speaker 1: they're subscribing to the Cinderella logic of like we met,

408
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Speaker 1: we're getting married, but it's also trying to be modern

409
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Speaker 1: and it's like kind of failing at both right. But

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Speaker 1: before Frog Navine can express his feelings to Tiana, he

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Speaker 1: gets captured by the shadow creatures and they steal more

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Speaker 1: of his blood so that Lawrence can turn back into

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Speaker 1: Navine so that he can get married to Charlotte during

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Speaker 1: the Mardi Gras parade, and then Frog Tianna sees them

415
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Speaker 1: like about to get married, and she thinks it's the

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Speaker 1: real Navine and she's like, no, that's my boyfriend, because

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Speaker 1: I guess she also loves him. Question Mark, right, when

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Speaker 1: do we know? Well, Caitlyn, of course she loves him.

419
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 1: He legs her for most of the movie that subscribing

420
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: by the rules of the game. And then Ray the

421
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 1: Firefly helps Frog ven he escapes, and they steal the

422
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: magic talisman that's holding the blood and then Ray gives

423
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 1: it to Frog Tianna, who smashes it and Dr Facilier

424
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: is like no, and then all the shadow demons kill him,

425
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: but not before he squishes Ray the Firefly and kills him,

426
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 1: and I guess we're supposed to be sad about that,

427
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: and I was just like, I don't care about this character.

428
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,360
Speaker 1: But they throw the whole funeral for it. But how

429
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: wild is it that they commit to killing the Firefly

430
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: so shocked? That's like ifs Flounder got shocked. You're like,

431
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 1: that doesn't happen to the fun sidekick? Right? There? Is

432
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: there any precedent on which I mean, it's like in

433
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 1: Disney Princess movies. Any in Disney beside Bambi's mom, who

434
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: wasn't that who didn't feel that role? Like parents die

435
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 1: but but or are already did? But yeah, kicks don't die.

436
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: Like I was, I forgot about that and I was shocked.

437
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god. And then I was like, well,

438
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: something's gonna happen with the magic. He's gonna come back

439
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 1: to life. But then they're like, no, he's a star. Now,

440
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: he's a star. He actually and they throw a whole

441
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: funeral for him, and you're like, first of all, I

442
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,719
Speaker 1: don't care about this character. Seven of all, it's just

443
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: I was so shocked that they It's like if, yeah,

444
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 1: if if Sebastian had actually been like caught by the

445
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 1: chef and right, and they're like, he's happier now, Like, no,

446
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: he's not. He's not. There's gonna he's now a shell

447
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 1: on the island. Oh my god. And then it also,

448
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 1: I mean this it's I know it's a cartoon, but

449
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 1: the when when when the bug does, You're like, oh no,

450
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: and then it starts raining. I'm like, realistically, this Bug's

451
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: corps would be like like like the corps would not

452
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: have survived at the funeral, like bug when you when

453
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: I when a dead bug is rained on, it just

454
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 1: turns to goop. Also, like like Danna just like crushed

455
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: his dreams before he died. She was like, it's a star,

456
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: it's not even a real thing. But again, he's not

457
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: really an important character arguably didn't need to be. Yeah,

458
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: but who is Raymond? I didn't understand whatever shrug sug

459
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: he dies. So then frog Novine is like, Okay, Charlotte,

460
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: it's almost midnight, Please kiss me so that Tiana and

461
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: I can turn back into humans. And you have to

462
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,360
Speaker 1: make sure you give Tiana the money for her restaurant,

463
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: which arguably Charlotte should have done at the very beginning.

464
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 1: But anyway, she kisses him, but it doesn't work. They

465
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: don't turn back into humans. So then, in the wildest

466
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,479
Speaker 1: plot twist of all, Tiana and Levine decided to just

467
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: stay frogs and then get married and gives up on

468
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: her dreams. So wasn't So it's so funny because she's

469
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: so hard working throughout the whole movie that for her

470
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: to be like, yeah, I think this is just how

471
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: it's going to be now trays her entirely. They're like

472
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 1: she's like this could work, and then you're like, oh no,

473
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: Like what about Oprah, where's my daughter? Like open? No

474
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: one ever is is no, we never get to open

475
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: to be like where's Tianna? Where she go? No one's

476
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 1: asking where she is because Tiana still lives at home.

477
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: Yeah no, she Oprah is missing her? Like but you know,

478
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: she works eight ships of a job, you know, so

479
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: she's probably like there, oh my god, like I just

480
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: but like, you know, if this were like any lot like,

481
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: she would have hopped on over to Oprah and then

482
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 1: like hell right, I think for something. Right, But that's

483
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: how little like the movie values their relationship. Also, her

484
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: frog wedding, there's all these animals from the forest and

485
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: it's like, you don't know, all these animals all been

486
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: friends with like three animals, and one of them died

487
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: after you yelled at it like that. Oh boy, it's

488
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: I still kick it over that they killed the bug

489
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: they killed. They get married as frogs, but here here's

490
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: the okay, off a cliff there. It's just like I'm

491
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: just think of all the different ways you could murder

492
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: Disney sidekicks. Just I can't handle it, Okay. So then

493
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: they get married as frogs, which Mama Odie officiates the wedding.

494
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,479
Speaker 1: But because they get married, and because Navine is a prince,

495
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: that makes Tiana a princess. So when he kisses her

496
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: at their wedding, he's kissing a princess, which is the

497
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: thing that needed to break the spell. And that's what

498
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: turns them back into humans, so other humans standing in

499
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: the middle of a swamp kissing, and it's a his

500
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: wife based plot twist at the end too, because they

501
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: also have to explain it to the audience because you're

502
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: like what uh, and like, well, you did kiss a

503
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: princess because when I became your wife, I became a princess.

504
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: So now I'm a princess. You kissed me and now

505
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: we're hot again, and everyone's just like yay. And then

506
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: where did they get the money? Is it from? You

507
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: see his parents? For two seconds, I'm like, I guess

508
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: maybe they're cool now. And then she but I don't

509
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: think they get the money. I think they have an

510
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: alligator that intimidates the bankers, Like yeah, she uses the

511
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: money that she had earned through all of her serving jobs,

512
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: and so they just but what about the person that

513
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: outbid her? He's dead. I don't know. It was the

514
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: firefly firefly hup. Hum. Fortunately he was killed, and so

515
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: that was just just I mean, so many threads are left.

516
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 1: She gives up at the end and then she's like,

517
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: now that I'm your wife, I can achieve my dreams.

518
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: You're like a cool message that pissed me off. So much. Well,

519
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and then we'll get really

520
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: a deep dive into the discussion gritty and we're back.

521
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: Where should we start, Lexie? Where do you want to start?

522
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: Where should we? But I mean, there's so much. Well,

523
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: let's first talk about how in the opening they had

524
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: the six year old feed like the entire Yes, she

525
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: fed everybody on her block and she was like six

526
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: years old, and that was like, I mean, this movie is.

527
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: I tried to do as thorough as I could of

528
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: a context corner for this because it's like I think

529
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: it's a really bizarre because Disney is so determined to

530
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: never make a meaningful comment on anything, it is weird

531
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: to me that they chose to set this movie in

532
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: a very specific place and time like Jim Crow era

533
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: Jim Mouth just sanitize it to death. It also like

534
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: upset me that, like it also is like a weird

535
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: class thing, like like it's it's supposed to be a fantasy,

536
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: Like it's like a it's a princess story, like there

537
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: shouldn't be Like it felt like oh, there's like everybody

538
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: that was bad was like kind of like they were

539
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: like mostly white except for the voodoo man, and then

540
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: there was like very classism where it was like rich

541
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: white people and then poor black people, and then we

542
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: only had like Navid who I don't know exactly. He's

543
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 1: from Maldonia. He's like ethnically ambiguous, yes, but it just

544
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: I don't know. It also bugged me. This is where

545
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: I had like the biggest crocs with the movie is

546
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: like she works so hard, and like everybody is always

547
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: pooping on her working hard, right, I mean, it's it's

548
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: confused because I feel like Tiana is so she lives

549
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: in this non existent new or lends where Jim crow

550
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: Law has never happened. Uh, rich white people are just like, whoops,

551
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: we forgot to Like it's it's like that. I feel

552
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: like that is like a very common thread in Disney

553
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: movies when they're trying to avoid discussing systemic racism in

554
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: any way. They're like, oh, well, the rich white people

555
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: are kind of goofy. They're like a little bit dumb,

556
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: but they're nice, but they're they're just kind of like

557
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: they didn't they didn't think of it. Um. It's just

558
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: like it's such a bizarre decision to set this in

559
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: the Jim Grows South because it's like, first of all,

560
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: like Charlotte could not have legally married Prince Navie, like

561
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 1: interracial marriage is not legal at this time. There's a

562
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: lot written on how like Tiana and Charlotte being able

563
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: to be friends that share clothes like that would have

564
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: been very unlikely, and just the white people in this

565
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: story wouldn't have been like, oh, we're goofy, like they

566
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: would have been enforcing systemic racism. But but in this

567
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: like no one challenges the class system set up in

568
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: this movie, no one challenges the racial politics of this world.

569
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: Everyone's kind of friends, but all the people who are

570
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: poor just happened to be black, Like it's the choices

571
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 1: that were made to contextualize, like the setting and the

572
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:18,479
Speaker 1: time of this story are very bizarre. Like the fact

573
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: that this is like the first black Disney princess is

574
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: that's important representation that means a lot to a lot

575
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: of people. And the character, at least at the beginning,

576
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: is like a good character, Like she has more agency

577
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 1: than most Disney princesses do. She has a dream that

578
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: doesn't involve getting married, like she she has more from

579
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,320
Speaker 1: the jump than a lot of Disney princesses do. But

580
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: then it's just like sold out so through and then

581
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: to take all that and then like yeah, put it

582
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 1: in this bizarrow the fantasy world. Does I think the

583
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: first black Disney Prince as a huge disservice And then

584
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: like you already said, like she we don't even see

585
00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,760
Speaker 1: her as a black woman from most of the movie,

586
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: which doesn't. Yeah, yeah, they had to Disney. I was

587
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 1: I was reading that they had to change it because

588
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 1: originally they had it named the Frog Princess and so

589
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 1: there was like a lot of backlash of that. And

590
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 1: then they also tried to name her Maddie, but it

591
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: came to it sounded too close to Mammy. And then

592
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: she also was a maid at some point, like I

593
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: think to like Charlotte's family. Yes, yeah, that was like

594
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: the original plant. I mean, it will not surprise anyone

595
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 1: that this movie was directed by Whiteman. There is a

596
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:36,280
Speaker 1: credited black writer on the movie, along with two white writers.

597
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: The music was somehow written by like it's a movie

598
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 1: that takes place in New Orleans and Randy Newman wrote

599
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: the music. Kid can't figure it can't crack that one. Uh,

600
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: And it's just when you see the production team that

601
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: was behind this movie. It's very easy to understand. Of

602
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: course they funked it up. It also was funny, like

603
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: as like a weird side note, the people that wrote

604
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 1: this movie actually also wrote Aladdin. And it's interesting because

605
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: I feel like the shadow Man, like his intro kind

606
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: of sounded like the Genie is a little bit, and

607
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: then I feel like they were did it feel like

608
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 1: visually they were referencing the Genie song at the end

609
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: of the shadow Man song where it's like, you know,

610
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: at the end, like the Genie like there's all these

611
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 1: other chid just popping up and then he's in the center,

612
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: and it just felt really similar. No, it definitely did.

613
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: And also the other thing that kind of like was

614
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 1: annoying as like, is that like she kept having this

615
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 1: dream and like even when she raised the money and

616
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 1: it was like, oh, you finally raise the money for

617
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: your dream, her mom was like, well what about a man? Like,

618
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: oh yeah, okay, let me break this down because I

619
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:45,720
Speaker 1: was like, what is this. So there's a recurring theme

620
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: throughout the whole movie, basically saying like all you need

621
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 1: is love to quote the famous song. So it starts

622
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: with Tiana's mom, whose name we do learn you, Dora,

623
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: she's like your dad never you know, lived out to

624
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: see his dream to have the restaurant, but that didn't

625
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 1: matter because he had love in his life. So and

626
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 1: that's and that's what I went for you, Tiana, to

627
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,800
Speaker 1: meet your prince charming and dance off into your happily

628
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: ever after. And then Tiana is like, well, I don't

629
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 1: have time for dancing, and then you doors like, but

630
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: I want grandchildren. So it's like this theme is established

631
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 1: that like having hopes and dreams is kind of stupid,

632
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: especially if they relate to your career and are not

633
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: really necessary as long as you have love in your life.

634
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: And this is again, I think, like a bizarre choice

635
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 1: to ignore the time period so thoroughly, because it's like

636
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: I feel like maybe it's a more nuanced conversation if

637
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: her mother is saying basically like these opportunities aren't afforded

638
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 1: to women, much less to black women who are from

639
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 1: a poor background, Like I feel like that is more

640
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: like there's an opportunity to make commentary. But then she

641
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 1: just comes off sounding sexist because this world, the world

642
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: of this movie is such a that you like sucking

643
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 1: void of messing nous that She's just like, you can't

644
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 1: open a restaurant, not because of all this oppression, it's

645
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 1: because I want a grandkid now. And then this goes

646
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: double down on a little later when the frogs reach

647
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,959
Speaker 1: Mama Odi and she sings this whole song about like

648
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: who cares about what you want? It's it's about digging

649
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,839
Speaker 1: a little deeper and figuring out what you need. And

650
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: the implication here, at least as far as I could tell,

651
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 1: was what you need is romantic love. Ye. Also, by

652
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 1: the way, when she kept saying dig deeper, I was like,

653
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 1: is she shanty? Like? Am I supposed to squat? Like

654
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: from insanity? It's just like it It is just like

655
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 1: one of the first Disney I'm trying to think of

656
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: if prior to Tiana, like were there Disney princesses that

657
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: really had dreams outside of romantic love, Like like it's

658
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 1: like you look at Mulan, but like Mulan like everyone

659
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,800
Speaker 1: else is like you're a badass, like that's really cool,

660
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: like your your kick butt, whereas her everyone's like you're

661
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 1: a killed joy. Tiana got that scene with her friends

662
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 1: at the beginning where they're like, are you gonna come

663
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 1: out dancing? She's like, no, I work seventeen jobs. And

664
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: they're like, Tiana is so awful. I can't believe how

665
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: hard she works to open up business, and like this

666
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:19,240
Speaker 1: this doesn't happen. This is like absurd, and it happens

667
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 1: like literally all the time throughout the whole movie. Are

668
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: like why are you working? Including Navina, And then I

669
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: love that Navina is like, well, you know, I'll take

670
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 1: jobs so that you can get your restaurant. It's like,

671
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,240
Speaker 1: well she's doing good raising the money on her own. Yeah,

672
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 1: she's like such an I mean, and and it's not

673
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 1: lost on us either that like she has to work

674
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: ten times harder than any Disney princess has ever had

675
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 1: to for anything. Like I mean, Cinderella technically had a

676
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 1: job sort of, I guess, but like, but you know,

677
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,839
Speaker 1: like Tiana is under way more pressure and she's made

678
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 1: fun of for it, and you're just like this, you

679
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 1: can't do both. You can't do you know. One is

680
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 1: like people should be hiring how hard she get it.

681
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: Everyone's just like you fucking idiot with your dumbass dreams.

682
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,879
Speaker 1: I mean, her having to work so hard to get

683
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 1: access to anything is one of the only things that

684
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 1: lines up with the world that they are putting you in,

685
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 1: but then everyone's reaction to it takes place in nowhere land. Yeah,

686
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,359
Speaker 1: just like in the Disney Void. It's so frustrating because

687
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: it's it is. I mean, I am at least glad

688
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 1: that you get to see that like determined side of

689
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: Tiana at the beginning. No, for sure, I like I

690
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 1: am glad that, Like I feel like I have a

691
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: complicated relationship because I do like that she is a

692
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 1: hard worker and she does have goals, but I don't

693
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:39,240
Speaker 1: like that she was like goal shame throughout the whole movie. Yeah,

694
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,399
Speaker 1: it's and the fact that, like the movie ends with

695
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 1: her opening up the restaurant after all, and she does

696
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 1: it with money that she earned waiting tables and not

697
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: that like Navine was like, here are my riches to

698
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: give to you, Like she worked hard for it and

699
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 1: she earned what she got. And then it does seem

700
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 1: like she's the breadwinner of their relationship because she's the

701
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 1: one who's like running this restaurant and Navine's parents had

702
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 1: cut him off. But then they're also at the wedding

703
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:08,280
Speaker 1: in they're life hi, and you're like money again, probably

704
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 1: a wedding gift, but before that, um To kind of

705
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: continue on this theme of like dreams are pretty silly

706
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: and love is what you need. When Dr Facilier is

707
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: like showing Tiana what she could have and he could

708
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: grant her this wish and he says something or she's like,

709
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: you know, my father never had what he wanted, but

710
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: he had what he needed. He had love. And it's

711
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 1: like so another like doubling down on this theme. So basically,

712
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 1: like Tiana learns the lesson that all you need is

713
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: romantic love in your life. And then at the end,

714
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: Navine is like, well, I have to marry Charlotte. It's

715
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: the only way for you to get your dream Tiana,

716
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: and she's like, well, my dream wouldn't be complete without

717
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 1: you in it. And it's like since when like you

718
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 1: met him earlier today, that's I mean, then that's like

719
00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: the Disney Princess. But it is like of all the

720
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: places that Disney tries to subvert in this movie that

721
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 1: you're like, why would you do that, that's the one

722
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 1: place that they don't subvert from like we met and

723
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 1: now we're in love. It's funny. Out of all the

724
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: Disney princesses, I felt like this was like the most

725
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:18,839
Speaker 1: heavy handed about like money is bad. I love when

726
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 1: Disney says money is bad and you're like, I don't know,

727
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: I'm going to go to Star wars Land. What I mean,

728
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 1: the message of this movie is so convolated because it's like,

729
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,720
Speaker 1: I mean, there's been a lot, a lot, a lot

730
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:39,240
Speaker 1: written on the impact of this movie, how it's aged,

731
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 1: even in the ten years it's been released, and it

732
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,280
Speaker 1: is like, I mean, there's more to be said about

733
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 1: the production background of this movie where I mean John

734
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 1: Lasseter was at the head of this production, which that

735
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: that fact doesn't age well. Um and and he hired

736
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: a bunch of like legacy Disney white guys to come

737
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: in and right and craft this movie because New Orleans

738
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: was his favorite city. But you're just like, uh, there's

739
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: no like it seems like very little research was done,

740
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 1: very little consideration was done because there was no one

741
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 1: in the room too, Like they wouldn't allow anyone in

742
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 1: the room who would say something when this movie came out,

743
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: So two thou same year that Barack Obama has taken office,

744
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 1: and there were a lot of movies that came out

745
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: like shortly after Obama is elected that sort of are

746
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 1: touting this like color blind world and that like this

747
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,359
Speaker 1: movie very much subscribes to that of like, well, now

748
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 1: that we have a like our first non white president,

749
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: racism is fixed and no one like the the the

750
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: legacy of racism doesn't affect this country any at all anymore.

751
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: And also there was a lot of upset when this

752
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,240
Speaker 1: movie was announced as taking place in New Orleans because

753
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 1: while especially while it was in production and still in

754
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: two thousand nine, New Orleans itself had been so thoroughly

755
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 1: affected by Hurricane Katrina that it like forced like hundreds

756
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: of thousands of black residents out, And I was like,

757
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: and now we're gonna we solved racism in the nine twenties. Here,

758
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 1: It's just like there's a lot of yeah, every like

759
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 1: almost everything about the production of this movie is a

760
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 1: is a very bad look. Yeah, for sure, some of

761
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: the sequences are pretty though. Can we talk a little

762
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 1: bit more about the love story component of it? So

763
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 1: we already kind of hinted at this, but this is

764
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 1: another example of a love story that starts with a

765
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: man negging and undermining a woman. Uh, he first says like, oh,

766
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,800
Speaker 1: I thought you were a princess but you're just a waitress.

767
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 1: Then he calls her a kill joy, a stick in

768
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 1: the mud who doesn't know how to have fun, and

769
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 1: then moments later they are suddenly in love. Like I

770
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: don't know where this comes from. He's also like the

771
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: slimiest dude. And I'm not talking about like the frog

772
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 1: trap the mucus. The mucus plot point. I was like,

773
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: are you serious or at the Antiana is like, actually

774
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:12,879
Speaker 1: it's Lucus, Like what, yeah, yeah, he's actually he's such

775
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 1: an asshole for sure. And it's interesting too, like throughout

776
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 1: the movie, like in regards to him, they keep talking

777
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,879
Speaker 1: about like women are going to hold you down, like

778
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: when he's at the shadow Man the shadow Man is

779
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: like he's like, oh, if you get a wife, you

780
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,280
Speaker 1: won't be able to live your life or something like that.

781
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 1: It's it's frustrated because it's like his whole character indicates

782
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 1: to young people watching the movie that you can have

783
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 1: all the ambition in the world, you can get seven

784
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 1: percent of the way there, but you still need a

785
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 1: man with resources negging you to achieve anything. And then

786
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: another thing is that when Navine mistakes Tiana for being

787
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,359
Speaker 1: a princess, she clears it up right away, and she's like, no,

788
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: I'm not a princess. I'm a waitress. If the genders

789
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: had been swapped and it was the woman mistaking the

790
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:07,280
Speaker 1: man for being a prince, I feel like it almost

791
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 1: certainly would have been a story about him lying to

792
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,800
Speaker 1: her for the whole movie and being like, yes, I

793
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: am my prince who's also a frog um. And I'm

794
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 1: not saying that, like all men are liars, and I'm

795
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 1: not saying that women never lie, but so many movies

796
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 1: are about a man lying to a woman and not

797
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: coming clean until the very end. So I guess I

798
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 1: liked that, you know, Tiana was like, no, I'm not

799
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 1: the person you think I am. Tiana is she's the best.

800
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 1: She's honest, and she's nice and she works hard. And

801
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 1: also there's a joke where it's implied that frog Navine

802
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 1: tries to have sex with frog Tianna when they're like

803
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 1: hiding in the stump from the alligators. He's like, well,

804
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 1: we could get cozy, and then she's like get away

805
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,439
Speaker 1: from me, and it's like you're trying to funk when

806
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:03,359
Speaker 1: you're a frog. It just I feel like there's so

807
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 1: many like you could do a drinking game about all

808
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,359
Speaker 1: the times he's mentioned women in the thing where he's like, oh,

809
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 1: I've dated thousands of girls, and there's a boy. He

810
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 1: has a boy, I mean, and and a lot of

811
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 1: a lot of Disney princess I mean, at least he has.

812
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 1: He has more of a personality than many Disney princes do,

813
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: but um, his personaliz is bad so that I also

814
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: don't even know. Like it's interesting because I feel like

815
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 1: in the past whatever twenty years, Disney princess have been

816
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: imbued with personality more and more frequently, which is good

817
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:40,439
Speaker 1: in one way, but in another way, you're like, well,

818
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 1: what if we give the you know, princess more personality

819
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 1: and more things to do instead of being like, we

820
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:49,359
Speaker 1: have to know this man's interior life. Like I don't,

821
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't feel any particular way about it.

822
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 1: But it is interesting. Also there was like like you said,

823
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,879
Speaker 1: like I don't understand why she fell in love with him,

824
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 1: Like there was they didn't have he like ja, she

825
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: seemed like okay about jazz, Like she didn't seem obsessed,

826
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: she wasn't like super into yeah yeah, and then she

827
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: like taught him how to like and then she was like,

828
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,720
Speaker 1: now I love him. It's well, they comes out of nowhere.

829
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 1: I feel like where they tried to set that up

830
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 1: and it just doesn't work, and it comes off a

831
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 1: little like is at the beginning when she's serving Charlotte

832
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 1: and Big Daddy also Big Daddy Jesus where she says, like,

833
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:27,800
Speaker 1: the way to a man's heart is through his stomach.

834
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 1: So I feel like we're supposed to connect the dots

835
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 1: of like when she cooks for him because woman, she

836
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:39,839
Speaker 1: realizes that she loves him. Right, That didn't track at all.

837
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: I don't follow the logic there. Also, did you catch

838
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 1: the part where when he's trying to propose to her,

839
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:49,959
Speaker 1: I guess while they're still frogs, He says, you could

840
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 1: not be more different. You're practically one of the guys

841
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 1: A k A. You're not like the other girls, says it,

842
00:48:56,520 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 1: and she's like, according to this movie, that's she is

843
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 1: not like because she's the girls hate her or are

844
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 1: like lobotomized like they did to Charlotte. God, everyone has

845
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:14,359
Speaker 1: just done a disservice. Yeah, um, we got to take

846
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 1: another quick break, but we'll come right back. Where shall

847
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 1: we go from here? Oh? Let me see. Um, well,

848
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 1: shall we talk about the representation of voodoo in the film. Yeah, yeah,

849
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 1: let's do it. So I did a little bit of research.

850
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 1: I found a piece from the Huffington's post entitled great

851
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:47,280
Speaker 1: Source entitled what is Voodoo Understanding a Misunderstood Religion by

852
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: samya Aria hass I probably mispronounced most of that, but

853
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: she is a writer and also a priestess of both

854
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 1: Hinduism and Voodoo, which, um, the preferred spelling of voodoo

855
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 1: is v O d o you for just anyone who's curious.

856
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 1: The quotes that I will share from this piece only

857
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 1: really scratched the surface of what there is to know

858
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 1: about the Voodoo religion. But I do have a few

859
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 1: quotes that I found to be the most relevant to

860
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 1: our discussion. Starting with quote, Voodoo isn't accurately portrayed in

861
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 1: most movies, TV shows, and books. Voodoo isn't a cult,

862
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 1: black magic, or devil worship. People who practice voodoo are

863
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:36,720
Speaker 1: not witch doctors, sorcerers, or occultists. Voodoo isn't a practice

864
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:40,399
Speaker 1: intended to hurt or control others. Most voodooists have never

865
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 1: seen a voodoo doll, unless, like you, they saw it

866
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 1: in a movie, Voodoo isn't morbid or violent end quote. Um.

867
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 1: So the reason all this is relevant is because the

868
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 1: character of Dr Facilier is framed as being I don't

869
00:50:55,600 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 1: even know if he's like a voodoo I don't know exactly,

870
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 1: but he participates in this Hollywood Disney version of voodoo. Yes,

871
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 1: And interestingly, I feel like they try to contextualize their

872
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:13,799
Speaker 1: interpretation of voodoo. They also make it directly correlate to

873
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:17,959
Speaker 1: Christianity by indicating that there's something having to do with

874
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 1: the devil and like demonic experience, which is not even

875
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 1: a part of this, but they I feel like Disney

876
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: almost makes the assumption like we're going to have to

877
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,400
Speaker 1: talk to people on a Christian level, so we have

878
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,839
Speaker 1: to connect these two things that are not related. Right.

879
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:36,800
Speaker 1: The way that voodoo is depicted in this movie and

880
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:43,880
Speaker 1: many others is that it's like this scary CULTI mystical,

881
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:48,839
Speaker 1: but in like a nefarious mysticism way, And that's not

882
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:54,240
Speaker 1: what it is. I've got another few quotes from this author. Quote,

883
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: racism clouds our view of voodoo. It is rooted in

884
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 1: slavery and intricately connected to this hemisphere's political and social evolution.

885
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 1: Voodoo was first practiced in America and the Caribbean by

886
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: slaves of African descent, whose culture was both feared and ridiculed.

887
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 1: Slaves were not considered fully human, their religion was dismissed

888
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,879
Speaker 1: as superstition, their priests were denigrated as witch doctors, their

889
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:22,279
Speaker 1: gods and spirits were denounced as evil end quote um,

890
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 1: which explains a lot of why voodoo is depicted the

891
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 1: way it is in media, and it has everything to

892
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 1: do with racism. Believe it or not. Go figure Uh yeah,

893
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 1: I I did a little research on this as well,

894
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 1: and it basically does very clearly boils down to racism,

895
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 1: specifically a very American kind of racism that's very specific

896
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 1: to this region um where Louisiana. Voodoo is something that's

897
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 1: very commonly cited. And it's like there's been from what

898
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:55,399
Speaker 1: I can tell, and if any listeners are out there

899
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 1: that have seen a positive, measured depiction of voodoo in

900
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:02,839
Speaker 1: popular culture, it doesn't seem like it's happened. And there's

901
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:05,799
Speaker 1: also been. There was a whole season of American Horror Story.

902
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 1: I don't watch that show, but there's a lot written

903
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 1: on how there was an entire season that hinged on

904
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 1: this very racist view of Louisiana voodoo um and what

905
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 1: it boils down to is um. I think we've had

906
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 1: similar conversations about Disney villains in this regard, where a

907
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,839
Speaker 1: lot of Disney villains are coded women in stem with

908
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 1: women with power and this is kind of an an

909
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:35,239
Speaker 1: analog for black people with power and making it as

910
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 1: villainous and threatening as possible. Uh So, it's it's not

911
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:45,399
Speaker 1: only like a very specific type of racism that has

912
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:48,920
Speaker 1: never really been challenged in popular media yet, but it

913
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 1: also like fits right into it. It's like, just based

914
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 1: on Disney's history, it makes a lot of sense that

915
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 1: they would go for this because that's how they treat

916
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 1: like some of their white of Just like, how can

917
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 1: we make power that isn't big daddy like the big

918
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:09,920
Speaker 1: daddies of the world. How can we make it threatening

919
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 1: and evil and villainous? And Yeah, that's a very interesting

920
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 1: point because like even on the flip side, like you

921
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 1: have Mama Odie and she's still like very cartoonish. We

922
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 1: don't actually see like none of her magic actually helps.

923
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: It's kind of just like, yeah, it's just like good

924
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 1: luck kids, Dig deep. That was the closest I could

925
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 1: get to be. I mean, I'm like, well, I guess

926
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:34,759
Speaker 1: that there is an example of a black character with

927
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 1: magic who is using it for good. It's still completely

928
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 1: misunderstands everything, but at least it isn't painting the company.

929
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 1: But then it's like, yeah, you're right, she doesn't do

930
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 1: she doesn't really her magic doesn't work. Yeah, and she's

931
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 1: also like not like she she's kind of senile. Yeah,

932
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 1: they make her out. Does not seem super like competent,

933
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 1: I guess, and not particularly I mean clearly not particularly

934
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:58,319
Speaker 1: good at what she does, because what she does doesn't

935
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 1: really affect the plot until the end, where it suddenly does.

936
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:05,400
Speaker 1: She's just like, uh, just fucking fall in love and

937
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 1: then you'll get everything you want. High magic is the

938
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:13,919
Speaker 1: magic of a head rolla. Just like that's not a thing. Yeah.

939
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:17,319
Speaker 1: So so it is complete misunderstanding. It could have been

940
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 1: her song could have been like shared do you believe?

941
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 1: Oh it's it's so it's so frustrating, and I mean,

942
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 1: like Disney has never set something in the American South

943
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:31,879
Speaker 1: and had it gone well, ever, like there there's also

944
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 1: a lot written about this movie comparing it, I mean

945
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 1: with less egregiousness, but still with some of the same

946
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:40,839
Speaker 1: themes that people are very critical of. Uh In Song

947
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 1: of the South, which is like the only Disney movie

948
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 1: that's ever been truly buried, and there's actually past guest

949
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:49,399
Speaker 1: of the show Carein a Longworth did a great um

950
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:51,319
Speaker 1: I think like five or six part series on like

951
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 1: the history and the legacy of that movie on her

952
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 1: podcast you must remember this. It's really good, but basically

953
00:55:57,120 --> 00:56:00,080
Speaker 1: because most of us haven't really seen that movie, and

954
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:02,239
Speaker 1: with good reason, that takes place in the American South

955
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 1: and has the similar vibe that we have with Tiana's

956
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:09,240
Speaker 1: family and Charlotte's family, where it's like, yes, the white

957
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:11,759
Speaker 1: people are very much in control, the black people in

958
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:14,360
Speaker 1: the story are mostly working for them, but there's no

959
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 1: problem here. Everything's fine. And so a lot of writers

960
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 1: at the time of this movie's released interpreted this, I

961
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 1: think pretty correctly as an updated version of this world

962
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:30,840
Speaker 1: that never had like like the most Disney approach to racism,

963
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:33,720
Speaker 1: and they're like, but it didn't really happen, like because

964
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:38,719
Speaker 1: like that relationship, especially between Tiana and Charlotte, that dynamic

965
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 1: is so bizarre because they seem to be pretty good friends.

966
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 1: But like Charlotte seems to be completely blissfully ignorant of

967
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:51,400
Speaker 1: any of Tiana's struggles. And then she also seems to

968
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:55,319
Speaker 1: treat Tiana as like someone who works for her and

969
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 1: serves her rather than like a friend in in an

970
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 1: equal like Tiana wasn't even invited to the ball as

971
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 1: a guest. Like, yeah, also, can we just quickly sorry side,

972
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: can we just talk about this scene when she gives

973
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 1: Tiana the dress and she she fixes her girls and

974
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:17,680
Speaker 1: like puts them up. And I was like Disney usually

975
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 1: never acknowledges like they might have, but never like she was.

976
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 1: Just every Disney princess has like a uni boob. They're like,

977
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:28,919
Speaker 1: this is just a feminine area. That is true. Their

978
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 1: their friendship is I mean, outside of the historical context

979
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: we've already discussed, it's a bummer because it's like they

980
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 1: seem to be very close friends, but really yeah, like

981
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 1: Tiana is very attentive to Charlotte's needs. Charlotte does things

982
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 1: for Tiana, but really only when it serves herself. Um.

983
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 1: And I also think that Charlotte's character is kind of

984
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:54,240
Speaker 1: very like Mired in Tropes as well, where it's like

985
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 1: kind of this failed attempt for Disney to comment on itself,

986
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 1: I think by doubling down on like at misogynist tropes

987
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: of like all she wants is marriage. Look at how

988
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:06,160
Speaker 1: stupid she is. This is all she cares about, and

989
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 1: like that doesn't help anything either. Also, wasn't it so

990
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 1: gross in the end when Charlotte is like, I didn't

991
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 1: know Prince Navide had a brother and it's six year old,

992
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:19,360
Speaker 1: and she goes, she goes, well, I waited, you know,

993
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 1: for one Prince, I could wait for I'm not quoting

994
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 1: it directly, but she's like, I can't wait for you

995
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:28,320
Speaker 1: to be legal so I can have sex with you.

996
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 1: Like this gives in the first grade there, that was

997
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 1: that was getting some real Jacob from Twilight vibes. She

998
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 1: printed on, Yeah, that was the only thing in the

999
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 1: movie that I mean, well that's not true. A lot

1000
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 1: of things in this movie that you're like no, but

1001
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 1: like the only thing that I was like, this is

1002
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:51,040
Speaker 1: just this is bald face like madness, um, other than

1003
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 1: killing the killing the bug and sending the bug to

1004
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 1: Star Heaven. So so, I mean, I I don't really

1005
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 1: have much to say about Charlotte outside of like it

1006
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 1: seemed like they were trying to make a commentary on

1007
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 1: the criticisms of past Disney princesses of like why do

1008
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 1: they want to be in love so bad? Why don't

1009
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 1: they have any dreams outside of this? And instead they

1010
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:16,680
Speaker 1: just doubled down on it and made a mockery of it.

1011
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:19,840
Speaker 1: And what purpose did that serve? It didn't serve any

1012
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 1: narrative purpose, Like they just were like women her, especially

1013
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 1: because it's like her goal that she's friend was having

1014
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 1: is like she just wants to marry a rich a prince.

1015
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 1: She's already rich. She just wants I guess, the status

1016
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:37,160
Speaker 1: of being a princess. But like boiled down, it's like

1017
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:40,440
Speaker 1: she just wants to be married, and that's seen as

1018
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 1: something that's like what a fucking idiot for just wanting that.

1019
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 1: But then on the other side of things, they're like, well, Tiana,

1020
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 1: your dreams, I mean, good for you for having them,

1021
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 1: I guess, but really all you need is love. So

1022
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:56,439
Speaker 1: bithology of this movie all women are stupid. Yeah, it's

1023
00:59:56,520 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 1: it's a lose lose situation. Also, how fast that Charlotte

1024
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 1: like agreed to me, Like as soon as he proposed

1025
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 1: he was like, I gotta go make plans, and I mean,

1026
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 1: Tianna seems to be like living in a more modern

1027
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 1: version of the world of like you just met him,

1028
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 1: and Charlotte's living in another version of the world where

1029
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 1: she's like, yeah, so we're getting married and you're just

1030
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 1: like what is And I don't know. Also heard her

1031
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:23,840
Speaker 1: dad have like it seemed like they had no concept

1032
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:26,800
Speaker 1: of money, Like they just were handing out hundred dollar

1033
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 1: bills to people, being like this will cover it because

1034
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:31,480
Speaker 1: he does it to the newspaper boy, and then she

1035
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:34,680
Speaker 1: does it to Tiana and for the beignets, And I

1036
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:37,120
Speaker 1: was like, Tiana, why didn't you get on these beignets earlier?

1037
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:39,360
Speaker 1: It seems like you could have he could have, Just

1038
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:42,920
Speaker 1: like why didn't Charlotte give Tiana a business loan? Because

1039
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 1: their friends like I don't understand, like, and I feel

1040
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 1: like that just plays more into the like they weren't racist.

1041
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:54,280
Speaker 1: They were just these bumbling duphaces of like, yeah, John

1042
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 1: Goodman trips and a million dollars falls out. It's not

1043
01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 1: that he was withholding money from anyone if that, he

1044
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:04,920
Speaker 1: just she just didn't see them. He just Also Charlotte

1045
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 1: was like mean to like some random boy, Like in

1046
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 1: the thing she just said to him, she said, if

1047
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 1: I say later, that means never loser. Right, I don't.

1048
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:19,920
Speaker 1: I don't, Like, I do understand why they're doing it,

1049
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 1: but it just makes you even more So. I think

1050
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 1: that Charlotte is I mean, she's she's not just none

1051
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 1: of the female characters are well now. The characters are

1052
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 1: well reading. Which brings me to the Animal Friends. Um,

1053
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:35,320
Speaker 1: I think that there's a big section of this movie

1054
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 1: that nothing happens in basically the second that Tiana becomes

1055
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 1: a frog, nothing happens for a very long time. Uh,

1056
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:44,520
Speaker 1: They're just kind of hopping around the bio. It's it's like,

1057
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:48,440
Speaker 1: it's beautiful. The animation is great, but I would argue

1058
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 1: that most of the animal friends that they meet in

1059
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:55,440
Speaker 1: this long stretch of nothingness are admired in tropes that

1060
01:01:55,480 --> 01:02:00,120
Speaker 1: are either of like poor people or black people. And

1061
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:03,440
Speaker 1: then it just it just gets like, why are we

1062
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:07,400
Speaker 1: doing this? I think that Raymond the firefly who was killed,

1063
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:11,520
Speaker 1: is the worst example of this. Were the way that

1064
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 1: he's animated, the way that he's stylized. He's given like

1065
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:19,280
Speaker 1: a Cajun accent, right, and then his teeth are all

1066
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 1: fucked up, Like I feel like there's a lot of

1067
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 1: stereotypes as particularly of like poor people in the South.

1068
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 1: We also see humans who are supposed to be poor

1069
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 1: in the South like like like, oh, when you don't

1070
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:33,400
Speaker 1: have money, you just are falling all the time, like,

1071
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:36,000
Speaker 1: but also the rich people are following, and you're like,

1072
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:40,560
Speaker 1: who does anything here? She's the one holding down the city,

1073
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 1: the only person who can do a fucking thing in

1074
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 1: this town. It's ridiculars, I mean, but it's like, I

1075
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:50,240
Speaker 1: think that this is another through line in Disney movies

1076
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:53,800
Speaker 1: of even because like I love animation so much, and

1077
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 1: it's people telling themselves so easily in animation, where like

1078
01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:00,440
Speaker 1: the people you're supposed to care about are drawn to

1079
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 1: be you know, Western beauty standard hot people, and the

1080
01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:05,280
Speaker 1: people who you are not supposed to who are a

1081
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 1: joke are drawn very differently. And that applies to other

1082
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:12,200
Speaker 1: I mean that the way that people are like Belle

1083
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:16,200
Speaker 1: looks very different than everyone in the French town, and

1084
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:20,280
Speaker 1: they're drawn like cartoons. They're like they're they are not

1085
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 1: drawn to be sexy princesses, and the way that they

1086
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:26,800
Speaker 1: drew like people who didn't have as much money, the

1087
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:29,560
Speaker 1: way that they drew the animal friends who were supposed

1088
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:32,760
Speaker 1: to be stand ins for other trupes. It's just ridiculous. Yeah.

1089
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:35,520
Speaker 1: It also also to add to the firefly thing, I

1090
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:37,960
Speaker 1: thought it was really interesting that the reason he loves

1091
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:43,200
Speaker 1: Evangeline the stars because she's so bright, like it's brittain beautiful.

1092
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 1: She doesn't talk, and he's like, she's shy, but I

1093
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:49,000
Speaker 1: love her. And it's like, oh, I didn't even think

1094
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:50,880
Speaker 1: of that. That was like the first thing I picked

1095
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:53,120
Speaker 1: up on. I was like, I was like, she you

1096
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:55,720
Speaker 1: don't know who what her personality is because she's a star,

1097
01:03:55,920 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 1: and yet you love her. Oh my world, like feminie,

1098
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:04,840
Speaker 1: this icon Evangeline what I kind of like, they're god feminist.

1099
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:07,880
Speaker 1: I mean, we don't know her story, another woman robbed

1100
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 1: of a coherent plot. And then also when when Ray

1101
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 1: dies and becomes a star next to her, like what

1102
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:15,840
Speaker 1: if she didn't want that? She never got to speak,

1103
01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:20,200
Speaker 1: she didn't consent to Ray the star. Let's be honest,

1104
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:24,000
Speaker 1: it was just another star. The bug died. The bug

1105
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:27,720
Speaker 1: dies like the full dead. No, he's a start. What

1106
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 1: if I died on this? Rose dies like the end

1107
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:37,120
Speaker 1: of Titanic. Rose falls asleep and has a dream. At

1108
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:39,200
Speaker 1: the end of Titanic, she does not dies what I meant,

1109
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 1: she dies, But but you know who else dies? Ray

1110
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:45,040
Speaker 1: and he doesn't come back as anything. He just dies.

1111
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 1: He stepped on by the villain and he dies. And

1112
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:52,400
Speaker 1: why did he do that? It? Also yeah, it just yeah,

1113
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:55,840
Speaker 1: it was it was unnecessary death. Also, but I do

1114
01:04:55,960 --> 01:05:00,080
Speaker 1: like what you said about Philander dying, just like, have

1115
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:03,200
Speaker 1: you got harpoons in the third act of the movie

1116
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:09,560
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, no, Ursula harpooned flounder and then

1117
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:12,280
Speaker 1: Flounder They're like, oh, but look he's up, he's the

1118
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:17,760
Speaker 1: sun now, No, he's not harpooned. Also, did you notice

1119
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:20,720
Speaker 1: how like we were touching on the like animation a

1120
01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:24,040
Speaker 1: little bit and like the design when they're frogs. I

1121
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:28,880
Speaker 1: feel like Tiana, they're still designing frog Tiana as like

1122
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:32,880
Speaker 1: Western beauty standard frog because she's like, yeah, visibly much

1123
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:37,440
Speaker 1: thinner then Navine frog. So it's like, what do you

1124
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:42,920
Speaker 1: They found a way to make the frog fam they

1125
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:45,080
Speaker 1: fam I mean, and they do that thing that there's

1126
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 1: like all those great Anita Sarkisian videos about where they

1127
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:51,080
Speaker 1: like basically gave her the like miss pac Man treatment.

1128
01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:54,080
Speaker 1: Where it's like she's a slender, curvy frog with long

1129
01:05:54,120 --> 01:06:00,520
Speaker 1: eyelashes and you're like, it's a frog, but the fucking frog. Um. Yeah,

1130
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 1: they just they just really find ways to do Tiana

1131
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:06,760
Speaker 1: and every female character dirty in every way. We sort

1132
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 1: of discussed this already, but the way that her relationship

1133
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:13,280
Speaker 1: with her mother is treated is like just again takes

1134
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:16,600
Speaker 1: place in this void where the mother is allowed to live,

1135
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:19,880
Speaker 1: but all she does is neg her daughter or talk

1136
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:23,240
Speaker 1: about the father like there's no the father is still

1137
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:28,360
Speaker 1: the driving influence in Tiana's life. It was it was

1138
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:30,000
Speaker 1: like she didn't have a dream of her own. It

1139
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:32,120
Speaker 1: was like her dad's dream. And then she gave her

1140
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:34,000
Speaker 1: dad's dream up so that she could have the dream

1141
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 1: with the v right, I give up on her dad's vision.

1142
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:40,640
Speaker 1: It's so, I mean I like it. Terrence Howard is

1143
01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:42,680
Speaker 1: the dad, and the dad Dad is like such a

1144
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:46,280
Speaker 1: lovely character. But but yeah, she's just carrying out her

1145
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:50,600
Speaker 1: father's vision. And then yeah, I mean, yeah, like I

1146
01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:52,520
Speaker 1: agree with you. Like the dad does say like some

1147
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:55,000
Speaker 1: great things where he's like, don't just wish like actually

1148
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 1: be in action. He wants her to be somebody who

1149
01:06:57,760 --> 01:06:59,880
Speaker 1: does something in the town, and it's not just which

1150
01:06:59,920 --> 01:07:02,480
Speaker 1: is then nothing for there's a lot of Disney dads

1151
01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:06,160
Speaker 1: that are like, you don't you can't do anything, so

1152
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:09,600
Speaker 1: that again it's like a little subversion. But then also

1153
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:12,760
Speaker 1: another character stuff or says with the results of that subversion,

1154
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:16,760
Speaker 1: I still I love Tiana. I just it's so I

1155
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:19,280
Speaker 1: feel like, Okay, correct me, if I'm right. I feel

1156
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:22,560
Speaker 1: like the general vibe around Tiana is that we all

1157
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 1: love her, and we all wanted better for her, yes,

1158
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:27,360
Speaker 1: a hundred percent. Like I did not want her to

1159
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:31,360
Speaker 1: marry a mediocreman, and that's what she did. Right. I'm glad.

1160
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:34,720
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm glad that she got her beautiful restaurant,

1161
01:07:35,880 --> 01:07:38,120
Speaker 1: don't I don't know. I mean this this fucking movie

1162
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:41,240
Speaker 1: ignores the fact that women just got the right to vote.

1163
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:44,880
Speaker 1: Maybe depending on when in the like, you're just just

1164
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:48,440
Speaker 1: like because if this was like set current day, you know,

1165
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:51,120
Speaker 1: because like n he like explains like when they're in

1166
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:53,520
Speaker 1: the when she's helping him mince the thing, He's like, oh,

1167
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:55,640
Speaker 1: I lived with all these servants. I don't know how

1168
01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:59,000
Speaker 1: to do anything. And it's like, you know, if this

1169
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 1: was like Wney should be helping him fill out of

1170
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:09,200
Speaker 1: W four right, it's uh there there's also I mean,

1171
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:14,040
Speaker 1: if you go beyond just the actual movie itself, it's

1172
01:08:14,120 --> 01:08:17,840
Speaker 1: really frustrating that, you know, any time that there is

1173
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:20,840
Speaker 1: especially in a company like Disney, anytime that there is

1174
01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:25,439
Speaker 1: a protagonist that isn't like a thin white someone, there's

1175
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 1: so much more writing on the production's success. Um, then

1176
01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 1: if there's a so so Disney princess movie that's like,

1177
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:37,000
Speaker 1: you know whatever, a French white girl and it does okay,

1178
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:40,320
Speaker 1: people were like, whatever, we'll make another. It's fine. But

1179
01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 1: there was so much pressure put on this movie that

1180
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:45,880
Speaker 1: was in some ways. I mean, it was successful, it

1181
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:48,080
Speaker 1: made its money back and then some, but it wasn't

1182
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 1: the gigantic smash hit that they wanted, which is a

1183
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:53,640
Speaker 1: great excuse for people who don't want black leads and

1184
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:56,640
Speaker 1: movies to not make movies anymore. When the problem was

1185
01:08:56,840 --> 01:09:01,679
Speaker 1: that they wrote an incoherent movie that liked like it's

1186
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:04,200
Speaker 1: so it's like you wrote a bad movie. That's why

1187
01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:05,840
Speaker 1: it didn't make as much money as you wanted. You

1188
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:07,840
Speaker 1: also released it the week but like at the same

1189
01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:10,400
Speaker 1: time as Avatar. That's another reason that it didn't do.

1190
01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:13,519
Speaker 1: And the marketing around this movie. I mean there's some

1191
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:18,360
Speaker 1: isolated examples of like some pretty like racist marketing of

1192
01:09:18,360 --> 01:09:20,720
Speaker 1: of this movie and the way it was marketed to

1193
01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:23,720
Speaker 1: young girls. I mean it was sexist and racist, it

1194
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:28,320
Speaker 1: was just everything because men be marketing shit. Uh and

1195
01:09:28,720 --> 01:09:33,519
Speaker 1: it's just and and even as recently as two years ago, um,

1196
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:36,599
Speaker 1: when Ralph Breaks the Internet came out, there's that scene

1197
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:38,639
Speaker 1: where all the princesses show up and they're like blah

1198
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:42,439
Speaker 1: blah blah meta commentary, and you're like, fucking whatever. But

1199
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:46,360
Speaker 1: in the original trailer they had like lightened Tiana's skin

1200
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:50,360
Speaker 1: and changed her facial structure to hair. Yeah, and and

1201
01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:53,800
Speaker 1: then people were like, um, excuse me. And then they're like, oh, sorry,

1202
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:56,160
Speaker 1: we thought we could get away with it. Sorry, and

1203
01:09:56,160 --> 01:10:00,360
Speaker 1: then they changed her crazy. I remember that they did that.

1204
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:02,400
Speaker 1: I can't remember which actors, but they did that on

1205
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:05,439
Speaker 1: like a magazine cover where they like lightning and like

1206
01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:08,280
Speaker 1: a real life person. I can't remember who. It was

1207
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:12,680
Speaker 1: fucking ridiculous. And there there are also stories from two

1208
01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:15,639
Speaker 1: thousand nine, when you know, it's always this big deal

1209
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:19,360
Speaker 1: when princess is added to official canon, because that is

1210
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:23,559
Speaker 1: like a thing, and this is very granular, but Disney

1211
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:28,000
Speaker 1: princess merch sells like fucking hotcakes. It's back Pagas's lunch boxes,

1212
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:30,400
Speaker 1: as t shirts, as everything. But just because you're a

1213
01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:33,920
Speaker 1: Disney princess, doesn't mean that you're on the merch, right,

1214
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:37,400
Speaker 1: So Mulan is often not on the merch. Pocahon's is

1215
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:41,280
Speaker 1: almost never on the merchants, and so Tianna. They were

1216
01:10:41,320 --> 01:10:43,800
Speaker 1: basically like, guess what Tiana is going to be on

1217
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:49,200
Speaker 1: the merch, which is like, whoo, she should be on

1218
01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:51,800
Speaker 1: the merch. So they said to put on the merch.

1219
01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:53,840
Speaker 1: But then there were all these things that have happened

1220
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:57,599
Speaker 1: to multiple Disney princesses, but it was especially egregious with Tiana,

1221
01:10:57,680 --> 01:11:00,439
Speaker 1: where they changed the color of hers in by a

1222
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:02,640
Speaker 1: little bit, they changed the structure of her face just

1223
01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:06,719
Speaker 1: to make it quote unquote fit in with the merch.

1224
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:09,880
Speaker 1: And just, I mean, this happens every time, Like it's

1225
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 1: just ridiculous. It's just it's just such a bummer that

1226
01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:17,240
Speaker 1: the this could have been such a monument I mean

1227
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:19,639
Speaker 1: it is a monumental movie. The fact that it's it's

1228
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:25,839
Speaker 1: features the first black Disney animated princess. The movie barely

1229
01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:29,719
Speaker 1: makes sense. The plot is either not much as happening,

1230
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:33,519
Speaker 1: or what's happening is too convoluted, Like I want to

1231
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:36,519
Speaker 1: like it so much more than I do. Well, it's

1232
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:41,360
Speaker 1: just like it's a behind the scenes problem. They didn't

1233
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:44,760
Speaker 1: hire the people who needed to be hired for this

1234
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:49,400
Speaker 1: movie to be coherent or good. Exactly. No, it definitely

1235
01:11:49,960 --> 01:11:52,240
Speaker 1: like the one good thing is we all loved Tianna.

1236
01:11:53,479 --> 01:11:58,679
Speaker 1: We love Tianna. But other than that, other than that,

1237
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:04,400
Speaker 1: yike yeike yaike um, there's a part of me that

1238
01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:07,960
Speaker 1: just like wants Tiana to get a redo. I'm like,

1239
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:11,760
Speaker 1: can we can we just do something for her? Can

1240
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:14,920
Speaker 1: we do something for Tianna? She didn't deserve to have

1241
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:18,599
Speaker 1: to be in this movie, right, I know? Also worth

1242
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:23,160
Speaker 1: mentioning the like queer coding of the villain Dr Facilier.

1243
01:12:23,439 --> 01:12:26,439
Speaker 1: It happens, and well there weren't enough tropes associated with

1244
01:12:26,479 --> 01:12:31,040
Speaker 1: that character already, so well, yeah, we talk a lot

1245
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:35,479
Speaker 1: about this concept on various other Disney movies, so you know,

1246
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:39,320
Speaker 1: check out those episodes for more, but it's definitely present here.

1247
01:12:40,160 --> 01:12:44,920
Speaker 1: I love the part where big Daddy le Buff shoves

1248
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:54,639
Speaker 1: up Ben his daughter's mouth. No, you know, like Dad's

1249
01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:57,519
Speaker 1: do And that's oh, I meant to say that earlier.

1250
01:12:57,560 --> 01:12:59,280
Speaker 1: That's like another troupe on top of a troupe on

1251
01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:02,840
Speaker 1: top of a trope for Charlotte of like dumb woman

1252
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:07,160
Speaker 1: obsessed with daddy that I'm like, listen, I'm smart and

1253
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:11,080
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with my dad. We exist, We're out there.

1254
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:15,519
Speaker 1: To me, the only really moment I could identify as

1255
01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:21,080
Speaker 1: the movie acknowledging race at all, And this isn't even

1256
01:13:21,160 --> 01:13:23,760
Speaker 1: an example of a time that it does it directly,

1257
01:13:23,880 --> 01:13:28,240
Speaker 1: but I feel like it's implied. Where the white real

1258
01:13:28,360 --> 01:13:32,519
Speaker 1: estate agents tell Tianna when she gets out bid for

1259
01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:36,160
Speaker 1: the restaurant property, they say, a woman of your background,

1260
01:13:36,479 --> 01:13:40,080
Speaker 1: you're better off where you're at. And yeah, that's the

1261
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:44,760
Speaker 1: only time that I noticed that this movie acknowledges like

1262
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:48,639
Speaker 1: her race or her background at all. But it's like, again,

1263
01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:53,080
Speaker 1: just that one tiny moment. It's not explicit, so you

1264
01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:57,479
Speaker 1: don't necessarily know exactly what they're implying. Yeah, it's just

1265
01:13:59,080 --> 01:14:02,880
Speaker 1: like you didn't you didn't even take step one. There

1266
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:07,440
Speaker 1: were some and it's like, I mean, I'm not gonna

1267
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:10,320
Speaker 1: use too much time getting super into it. There's a

1268
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:14,320
Speaker 1: writer named Serena McCoy. Gregory who wrote about this movie

1269
01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:18,280
Speaker 1: in depth and found some references to the racial politics

1270
01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:21,559
Speaker 1: of this specific area at the specific time. But they're

1271
01:14:21,640 --> 01:14:24,360
Speaker 1: so small that it's like no one would have known.

1272
01:14:25,040 --> 01:14:29,360
Speaker 1: I'll just read quick quote. Most of so it has

1273
01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:32,439
Speaker 1: to do with the masquerade ball and who's allowed to

1274
01:14:32,439 --> 01:14:35,160
Speaker 1: wear masks and who isn't. I guess was a law

1275
01:14:35,200 --> 01:14:37,719
Speaker 1: at this time. Quote. Most of the attendees are costumed

1276
01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:40,760
Speaker 1: to mask, with noted exceptions of Charlotte and Eli and

1277
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:44,240
Speaker 1: the black attendees. The band performers in Tiana are not masked,

1278
01:14:44,360 --> 01:14:47,799
Speaker 1: reflecting local law that prohibited blocks from covering their faces.

1279
01:14:48,120 --> 01:14:50,000
Speaker 1: At the end of the scene, we realized that Dr

1280
01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:53,200
Speaker 1: Facilier has broken with custom and law hiding behind a

1281
01:14:53,200 --> 01:14:58,160
Speaker 1: white Janus faced mask. So apparently they referenced this very

1282
01:14:58,240 --> 01:15:03,439
Speaker 1: specific but it's like that also, I also am like

1283
01:15:03,560 --> 01:15:07,920
Speaker 1: that could have been an accident. Uh. But yeah, I

1284
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:11,080
Speaker 1: don't know the the any attempt to express I mean,

1285
01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:13,559
Speaker 1: Disney is never going to try to express realism. But

1286
01:15:13,640 --> 01:15:17,719
Speaker 1: if they're that committed to not expressing realism, why put

1287
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:22,360
Speaker 1: it here? Like it's just yeah, really bizarre. I mean,

1288
01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:25,400
Speaker 1: I do want to wanna shout out to Rob Edwards,

1289
01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:29,360
Speaker 1: the black screenwriter of the three, the other two being

1290
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:33,280
Speaker 1: um Ron Clements and John Musker, who are also the directors.

1291
01:15:33,439 --> 01:15:37,880
Speaker 1: So because there's like at least one black person involved

1292
01:15:37,880 --> 01:15:40,080
Speaker 1: in the production of this movie, even though it doesn't

1293
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:42,920
Speaker 1: seem like a lot of stuff got through. But he also,

1294
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:45,439
Speaker 1: I didn't realize this wrote one of my what I

1295
01:15:45,479 --> 01:15:48,599
Speaker 1: think is a very underrated Disney movie, which is Treasure Planet.

1296
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:52,160
Speaker 1: Oh you wrote Treasure Planet. I liked Treasure Planet. No

1297
01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:55,320
Speaker 1: one else like Treasure Planet. It was a problem. I've

1298
01:15:55,600 --> 01:15:58,160
Speaker 1: seen it. Oh it's okay. First of all, for someone

1299
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:01,559
Speaker 1: who hates steampunk, I like all steam things. So it's

1300
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:06,080
Speaker 1: like steampunk Treasure Island. And like Jim what's his name

1301
01:16:06,479 --> 01:16:10,240
Speaker 1: has like a buzz cut and bangs, remember the trailers,

1302
01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:15,280
Speaker 1: and he can fly. It's good. But anyways, shout out

1303
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:18,680
Speaker 1: to Rob Edwards, um and I wish he could have

1304
01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:22,160
Speaker 1: like written this movie by himself instead of you know,

1305
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:25,680
Speaker 1: I have a black woman rite this movie. I have

1306
01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:29,040
Speaker 1: a black woman direct this movie. That's I mean. And

1307
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:32,120
Speaker 1: and it's still like women much less Black women are

1308
01:16:32,160 --> 01:16:36,400
Speaker 1: still like not given access to animation in particular. And

1309
01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:39,280
Speaker 1: it's just I read that Oprah in addition to being

1310
01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:42,200
Speaker 1: cast as the voice of the mother, was also brought

1311
01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:45,920
Speaker 1: on as like a technical consultant, but only after they'd

1312
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:49,920
Speaker 1: already received criticism for the movie being racist, so they

1313
01:16:50,080 --> 01:16:53,479
Speaker 1: pulled the hail Oprah and which again is just like

1314
01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:57,080
Speaker 1: it's just so disingenuous of like, yeah, we'll hire a

1315
01:16:57,120 --> 01:16:59,280
Speaker 1: black woman on this story about a black woman, but

1316
01:16:59,360 --> 01:17:02,880
Speaker 1: only after you've been yelled at. It's like, wouldn't it

1317
01:17:02,960 --> 01:17:07,800
Speaker 1: just serve the production of whatever? Animation? There's not a

1318
01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:11,760
Speaker 1: lot of women just in general. Sure, Like it's it's

1319
01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:16,479
Speaker 1: very uh because yeah, I used to I used to work.

1320
01:17:16,560 --> 01:17:19,720
Speaker 1: I used to work in animation, like not in the

1321
01:17:19,800 --> 01:17:22,599
Speaker 1: drawing aspect. I used to work more in like dealing

1322
01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:25,000
Speaker 1: with the day to day logistics of like voiceover people.

1323
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:28,479
Speaker 1: So it actually is funny. I've worked with severally actors

1324
01:17:28,479 --> 01:17:30,120
Speaker 1: in the movie that are very nice and very sweet.

1325
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:33,559
Speaker 1: But yeah, you don't see you have like a few

1326
01:17:34,120 --> 01:17:37,120
Speaker 1: women who are like up at like the decision making level,

1327
01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:41,040
Speaker 1: but not so many, you know. So hopefully as I

1328
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:43,320
Speaker 1: exited animation, there's like more people coming to the top,

1329
01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:46,920
Speaker 1: so hopefully they will continue. Yeah, let's hope. So, I

1330
01:17:46,920 --> 01:17:50,759
Speaker 1: mean it's still like the two women that I'm aware

1331
01:17:50,760 --> 01:17:54,160
Speaker 1: of that have directed Disney animated productions, they're both white women.

1332
01:17:55,080 --> 01:17:57,759
Speaker 1: Ones Jennifer Lee, who I think has gotten promoted pretty

1333
01:17:57,840 --> 01:18:02,000
Speaker 1: high up in Disney animation, which is good. She co

1334
01:18:02,240 --> 01:18:05,720
Speaker 1: directed Frozen because you gotta have a boy with you,

1335
01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:13,680
Speaker 1: And then Brenda Chapman, who directed Uh, well that got complicated,

1336
01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:17,439
Speaker 1: didn't it? Listen to our brave episode? Yeah, she did

1337
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:21,200
Speaker 1: direct it, but she is again credited as a co

1338
01:18:21,320 --> 01:18:25,320
Speaker 1: director with a man. Because people get nervous when women

1339
01:18:25,360 --> 01:18:27,599
Speaker 1: have too much power of doing anything. They're like, oh,

1340
01:18:27,640 --> 01:18:30,439
Speaker 1: we gotta get someone name mark in here. I believe.

1341
01:18:30,600 --> 01:18:32,839
Speaker 1: Don't quote me on this. I believe though, that Pixar

1342
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:36,280
Speaker 1: does have like one person of color. That's a director

1343
01:18:36,360 --> 01:18:39,880
Speaker 1: that did like a short film. Oh is it the

1344
01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:43,920
Speaker 1: one fun? What's it called? Uh? I think it had

1345
01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:47,280
Speaker 1: something to do with like food. Yes, yeah, I think

1346
01:18:47,320 --> 01:18:51,200
Speaker 1: I think that's it. Does this movie pass the back

1347
01:18:51,280 --> 01:18:58,640
Speaker 1: tail test? Yes? Yes, um few times definitely. Between Tiana

1348
01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:01,720
Speaker 1: and her mom, Um, you doora talk about you know,

1349
01:19:01,800 --> 01:19:06,000
Speaker 1: opening up the restaurant and all that stung children, grandchildren,

1350
01:19:06,360 --> 01:19:11,280
Speaker 1: It barely passed. But then they that's followed by them

1351
01:19:11,320 --> 01:19:15,800
Speaker 1: talking about Tianna's dad, and then a hypothetical prince charming. Um,

1352
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:19,120
Speaker 1: do any conversations between Charlotte and Tianna passed? Because I

1353
01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:22,280
Speaker 1: feel like a lot of them are about men and princes.

1354
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:25,000
Speaker 1: And I caught a few two line exchanges, but it

1355
01:19:25,280 --> 01:19:28,240
Speaker 1: doesn't pass by the margin you would want it to write.

1356
01:19:28,280 --> 01:19:30,640
Speaker 1: And then I was like, does her talking to Evangeline

1357
01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:37,040
Speaker 1: count Evangeline shimmers? Yes, so that is her that was

1358
01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:41,920
Speaker 1: in the script in Shimmers. In response, Um, I mean

1359
01:19:42,280 --> 01:19:44,720
Speaker 1: the women in this movie are are very much outnumbered

1360
01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:49,120
Speaker 1: by male characters. Um, which is again very And then

1361
01:19:49,479 --> 01:19:52,160
Speaker 1: Mama Odi doesn't I don't know if any of those

1362
01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:54,080
Speaker 1: I feel like most of those conversations are still about

1363
01:19:54,120 --> 01:19:58,040
Speaker 1: like it's like the love interest exactly right. Like I

1364
01:19:58,040 --> 01:20:00,800
Speaker 1: feel like almost everything Mama Odi says is the subtext

1365
01:20:00,840 --> 01:20:04,760
Speaker 1: of like head rolla We'll change your life or maybe

1366
01:20:04,760 --> 01:20:10,120
Speaker 1: the Tapasco sauce thing that that I mean maybe Again,

1367
01:20:10,160 --> 01:20:13,680
Speaker 1: it's like all the passes are quick. They're all like

1368
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:16,680
Speaker 1: they're very very quick, and it's against like so not

1369
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:20,679
Speaker 1: unusual for in a princess movie for the like female

1370
01:20:20,760 --> 01:20:23,160
Speaker 1: characters to be vastly outnumbered all the animals we meet

1371
01:20:23,280 --> 01:20:29,640
Speaker 1: are male identified animals. They're let's rate it on our

1372
01:20:29,680 --> 01:20:32,559
Speaker 1: nipple scale, um zero to five nipples based on its

1373
01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:39,760
Speaker 1: representation of women. UM. I know this is such an

1374
01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:44,600
Speaker 1: important movie to like young black girls and other the

1375
01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:48,080
Speaker 1: world in the world, but it really subscribes to a

1376
01:20:48,120 --> 01:20:52,519
Speaker 1: lot of weird tropes and stereotypes between uh, you know,

1377
01:20:52,600 --> 01:20:57,040
Speaker 1: weird racial stereotypes. This movie doesn't like fat people. This

1378
01:20:57,080 --> 01:21:01,120
Speaker 1: movie doesn't like poor people. This movie doesn't like any

1379
01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:06,800
Speaker 1: dreams or this movie really mishandles what the religion of

1380
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:11,439
Speaker 1: voodoo is. You know, it's got a lot of problems,

1381
01:21:11,479 --> 01:21:15,200
Speaker 1: but it is important. Representative, as we always talk about,

1382
01:21:15,280 --> 01:21:22,080
Speaker 1: like representation and inclusion and progress in general, is a

1383
01:21:22,200 --> 01:21:25,800
Speaker 1: slow process that has to start somewhere, and usually the

1384
01:21:25,800 --> 01:21:29,680
Speaker 1: place that it starts is not necessarily very good or

1385
01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:34,760
Speaker 1: very nuanced, but it's a stepping stone for other more nuanced,

1386
01:21:34,800 --> 01:21:39,360
Speaker 1: more inclusive and progressive things to be made from there,

1387
01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:43,960
Speaker 1: usually when the first thing that's not very nuanced proves

1388
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:49,040
Speaker 1: to be financially successful, which this movie was. But yes,

1389
01:21:49,120 --> 01:21:54,439
Speaker 1: we've had better representation, not necessarily of like black women

1390
01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:58,720
Speaker 1: royalty in much cinema, but the fact that this is

1391
01:21:58,760 --> 01:22:02,479
Speaker 1: like the first Black Disney Princess is not nothing. The

1392
01:22:02,520 --> 01:22:06,639
Speaker 1: fact that it was made almost exclusively by white men

1393
01:22:07,640 --> 01:22:10,680
Speaker 1: is not the choice that should have been made, as

1394
01:22:10,720 --> 01:22:13,840
Speaker 1: we've talked about. So there's all these factors. I don't

1395
01:22:13,840 --> 01:22:16,720
Speaker 1: know what nipple rating to give it. Is it like

1396
01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:19,000
Speaker 1: a two and a half is it's kind of right

1397
01:22:19,040 --> 01:22:26,240
Speaker 1: down the middle. I'm giving it. Uh uh, I'm between

1398
01:22:26,240 --> 01:22:28,760
Speaker 1: the one and half and it too. I think that,

1399
01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:31,080
Speaker 1: like the behind the scenes representation in this movie is

1400
01:22:31,080 --> 01:22:34,719
Speaker 1: so pissed poor and Tiana, Like Tiana is the wind,

1401
01:22:35,240 --> 01:22:37,559
Speaker 1: Trianna is the win. Tiana is everything that is good

1402
01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:39,920
Speaker 1: about this movie is Tianna in the first half hour,

1403
01:22:40,200 --> 01:22:43,920
Speaker 1: right and not Yeah, because she's a fucking frog. There's

1404
01:22:43,960 --> 01:22:46,680
Speaker 1: not enough. It's not enough. I'll give it. I'll give

1405
01:22:46,720 --> 01:22:49,160
Speaker 1: it one and a half nipples one for Tianna and

1406
01:22:49,200 --> 01:22:51,360
Speaker 1: a half because it was the first black But other

1407
01:22:51,400 --> 01:22:53,760
Speaker 1: than that, that's that's it everything. I'm like you, really,

1408
01:22:53,840 --> 01:22:58,280
Speaker 1: there's no other character with redeeming progressive anything. Okay, I'll

1409
01:22:58,320 --> 01:23:01,120
Speaker 1: follow your lead, Lexi into one and a half. One

1410
01:23:01,120 --> 01:23:06,360
Speaker 1: and a half. Yeah, cool, Well do better world. Well,

1411
01:23:07,240 --> 01:23:11,800
Speaker 1: these directors, these directors did direct Mahanna. You know a

1412
01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:15,679
Speaker 1: few years later, So not that that's who should have directed.

1413
01:23:15,680 --> 01:23:20,280
Speaker 1: Marianna is a more progressive text. The world is a

1414
01:23:20,320 --> 01:23:22,800
Speaker 1: confusing place. Um, Lexie, thank you so much for me,

1415
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:25,600
Speaker 1: Thank you for having Where can we Where can we

1416
01:23:25,640 --> 01:23:29,439
Speaker 1: find you online? Um at smile Alexei on everything. So

1417
01:23:29,479 --> 01:23:32,280
Speaker 1: but Lexi has spelled l e x i E wonderful

1418
01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:36,160
Speaker 1: and then go see the best. Yes, yeah, thank you.

1419
01:23:36,160 --> 01:23:40,559
Speaker 1: You can follow us on social media at becktel Cast, Twitter,

1420
01:23:40,640 --> 01:23:45,760
Speaker 1: and Instagram. Primarily, you can subscribe to our Patreon a

1421
01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:48,719
Speaker 1: k a. Matreon. It's five dollars a month. It gets

1422
01:23:48,720 --> 01:23:51,080
Speaker 1: you to bonus episodes, and that's at patreon dot com,

1423
01:23:51,080 --> 01:23:54,040
Speaker 1: slash becktel Cast. Something is telling me Portman July might

1424
01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:59,800
Speaker 1: be coming back for March. What true Matreon friends think

1425
01:23:59,800 --> 01:24:04,840
Speaker 1: that sentence makes sense. You can also get our merch

1426
01:24:05,160 --> 01:24:08,599
Speaker 1: on t public dot com slash v backdel Cast. Check

1427
01:24:08,640 --> 01:24:15,280
Speaker 1: out our website to remain abreast of abreast, write abreast

1428
01:24:15,400 --> 01:24:18,320
Speaker 1: of upcoming live dates. Maybe there's some on the way

1429
01:24:18,680 --> 01:24:25,400
Speaker 1: and uh, we love you so much listening the prints

1430
01:24:25,439 --> 01:24:26,120
Speaker 1: in the Prodcast