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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

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Speaker 2: At the twenty twenty World Economic Forum in Davos, billionaire

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Speaker 2: Mark Benioff wore all black. His fashion choice, he told

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Speaker 2: the CNBC anchor matter of factly, was symbolic.

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Speaker 1: I'm at a funeral for capitalism here in Davos.

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Speaker 2: Benioff, who's best known as the co founder and CEO

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Speaker 2: of the software company Salesforce, has been eulogizing capitalism as

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Speaker 2: we know it for years now, saying it's failing its

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Speaker 2: social purpose.

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Speaker 1: I think if you asked Mark Benioff, I don't think

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Speaker 1: he would say that he's anti capitalist, but I think

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Speaker 1: he would acknowledge that capitalism isn't necessarily working in the

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Speaker 1: best way for everyone.

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Speaker 2: Sophie Alexander covers philanthropy and billionaires like Benioff for Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: News, so he's really into this idea of stakeholder capitalism.

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Speaker 1: It's not just shareholders, it's not the people who own stuff,

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Speaker 1: talk and sales Force, but also just people generally. And

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Speaker 1: he also counts the planet as one of those stakeholders.

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Speaker 2: At Davos that year, Benioff made a major announcement, one

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Speaker 2: that was supposed to serve a very special stakeholder, mother Nature.

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Speaker 2: There used to be.

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Speaker 1: Six trillion trees on Earth.

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Speaker 3: Now there is three trillion, so we should be able

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Speaker 3: to get another trillion back.

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Speaker 2: Benioff said he was launching a new project with the

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Speaker 2: World Economic Forum to plant or protect one trillion trees

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Speaker 2: by twenty thirty. Yes, that's one trillion trees in ten years.

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Speaker 2: The initiative is called onet dot org. Governments from all

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Speaker 2: over the world have signed on and support companies and

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Speaker 2: institutions across the private sector have made their own pledges.

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Speaker 2: Even then, President Donald Trump got on board. Here he

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Speaker 2: is at the twenty twenty summit committing to the initiative.

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Speaker 3: Today, I'm pleased to announce the United States will join

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Speaker 3: one Trillion Trees iniative being launched here at the World

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Speaker 3: Economic Form One Trillion Trees.

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Speaker 2: The idea was simple. Trees are really effective at sucking

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Speaker 2: up carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. Planting them can be

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Speaker 2: good for the planet, and it can also be a

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Speaker 2: good way for companies to reduce their carbon impact without

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Speaker 2: necessarily having to cut back on emissions. But not everyone

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Speaker 2: is enthusiastic about approaches like this. At the same Davos conference,

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Speaker 2: Swedish climate activist Greta Tunberg gave an impassioned speech about

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Speaker 2: the quote empty words and promises made to combat climate change.

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Speaker 4: Planting trees is good, of course, but it's nowhere near

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Speaker 4: enough of what is needed, and it cannot replace real

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Speaker 4: mitigation and rewilding nature.

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Speaker 2: Four years, millions of dollars and dozens of pledges later,

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Speaker 2: how close are we to one trillion trees? Did Greta

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Speaker 2: have a point? Today? On the show Why a billionaire

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Speaker 2: decided to go all in on reforestation, Why the private

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Speaker 2: sector followed, and what went wrong? From Bloomberg News, this

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Speaker 2: is the big take. I'm Sarah Holder. Mark Benioff gives

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Speaker 2: a lot of money to different causes. He's donated to

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Speaker 2: support homelessness prevention efforts, got microbiome research, and children's healthcare.

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg reporter Sophie Alexander says his giving is often guided

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Speaker 2: by the advice of people around him and his own convictions.

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Speaker 1: You see this play out in this story with one

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Speaker 1: t dot Org, but also in the past he's done this.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of where he reads one thing and then

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, he gets really excited about something

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Speaker 1: and he just throws a bunch of money behind it.

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Speaker 2: And in twenty nineteen, Benioff got excited about something new,

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Speaker 2: a scientific paper out of a Swiss research lab.

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Speaker 1: There's this paper that comes out from this research lab

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Speaker 1: called Crowther Labs, from this guy named Pumkrowther in Switzerland,

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Speaker 1: and it's a viral science paper which said basically that

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Speaker 1: there's room on the planet for one trillion more trees,

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Speaker 1: and if we were to plant all those trees, it

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Speaker 1: could sequester, basically remove two hundred gigatons of carbon from

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Speaker 1: the atmosphere. And so this is all very exciting to

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Speaker 1: Benioff and he says, oh my god, who's working on this.

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Speaker 2: But that paper that got Benioff so excited got pushedback

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Speaker 2: from other scientists who said the research had overestimated the

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Speaker 2: carbon storing potential of mass tree planting, and some warned

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Speaker 2: that finding space for so many new trees could end

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Speaker 2: up disrupting ecosystems. Crowther himself has provided more context in

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Speaker 2: the years since that research was published, saying the paper

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Speaker 2: wasn't meant to be a quote prescription for tree planting

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Speaker 2: and that trees are no replacement for emissions reductions. But

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Speaker 2: the idea that growing, restoring, or conserving a ton of

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Speaker 2: trees could help solve climate change wasn't entirely new.

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Speaker 1: People have been pretty obsessed with not just the idea

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Speaker 1: of trees as a solution to climate change, but a

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Speaker 1: trillion trees specifically for a long time. There were two

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Speaker 1: other organizations that I'm aware of, that existed before Benioff

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Speaker 1: started his project, named things like the Trillion Tree Campaign,

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Speaker 1: the Trillion Tree Project, things like that.

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Speaker 2: Trillion tree really rolls off the tongue. But these prior

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Speaker 2: efforts didn't get the Davos treatment. With Benioff's pocketbook and

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Speaker 2: the World Economic Forums powerful contacts, one t dot org

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Speaker 2: seemed poised to move the needle further. Benioff has spent

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Speaker 2: almost seventeen million dollars on one tea dot org and

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Speaker 2: has committed hundreds of millions more on tree related investments.

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Speaker 1: Their goal is essentially to get the private sector involved

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Speaker 1: in this thing that's mostly been left up to nonprofits, individuals, governments,

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Speaker 1: and things like that.

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Speaker 2: Eighty five companies have signed up from all over the world,

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Speaker 2: across sectors. Sophie found that several fossil fuel companies are

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Speaker 2: among them, including the Indian coal giant Adanni Group and

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Speaker 2: the Italian oil super major any. In total, those eighty

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Speaker 2: five companies have pledged more than nine billion trees, according

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Speaker 2: to the World Economic Forums accounting. But those who sign

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Speaker 2: up to be a part of one t dot Org

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Speaker 2: don't all commit to planting new forests from scratch. The

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Speaker 2: terms of their pledges vary widely.

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Speaker 1: Some companies are pledging trees as you would expect. Some

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Speaker 1: companies are putting it in terms of hectors, some are

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Speaker 1: putting it in terms of acres, some people are putting

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Speaker 1: it in terms of dollar amount. One company, Brambles, which

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Speaker 1: is a UK company, is putting it in terms of

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Speaker 1: planting two trees for every tree they use, But they

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Speaker 1: don't specify how many trees they use, so it's really

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Speaker 1: hard to determine that. So it means a lot of

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Speaker 1: different things. But essentially it's becoming a part of this

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Speaker 1: project and agreeing to, you know, go through this channel

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Speaker 1: and report the progress that you're making.

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Speaker 2: And so I mean, why are all these entities signing

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Speaker 2: on to Benioff's one t dot org pledge to begin with?

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Speaker 2: What's in it for them?

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Speaker 1: Well, the thing is, companies are some of the biggest

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Speaker 1: emitters of carbon, dioxine and other greenhouse gases, especially fossil

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Speaker 1: fuel companies, so they are some of the biggest problem makers.

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Speaker 1: But also some of these companies just feel a social

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Speaker 1: responsibility to do their part in fighting climate change. Of course,

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Speaker 1: there's a pr aspect to it. It looks good when

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Speaker 1: a company says that they're doing these things that make

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Speaker 1: people feel good about shopping with them or banking with them.

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Speaker 2: Some scientists Sophie spoke to went further. They said climate

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Speaker 2: friendly initiatives like these offer a too convenient excuse for

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Speaker 2: companies to say that they're working to reduce emissions without

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Speaker 2: changing their alliance on fossil fuels. Projects that rely on

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Speaker 2: nature base fixes can be great for the planet, but

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Speaker 2: scientists worry they can also be a distraction from other

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Speaker 2: more effective climate solutions. So, Sophie, are we close to

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Speaker 2: one trillion trees?

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Speaker 1: From the perspective of one tea dot org and the

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Speaker 1: work they've done, they are absolutely nowhere near close to

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Speaker 1: one trillion trees.

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Speaker 2: One ta dot org says they can account for as

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Speaker 2: many as two point six billion trees that have been

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Speaker 2: planted or saved as part of their project. That's more

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Speaker 2: than nine hundred and ninety seven billion short of their

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Speaker 2: ultimate goal. When could they achieve their one trillion tree goal?

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Speaker 1: One t dot org was only set up to last

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Speaker 1: through twenty thirty as part of the uns A Decade

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Speaker 1: on Ecosystem Restoration, So at this rate, there's absolutely nowhere close,

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Speaker 1: even even if you just count all their pledges, So

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Speaker 1: a trillion trees seems kind of like a pipe dream.

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Speaker 2: When we come back, we explain what might be standing

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Speaker 2: in the way of Benioff's grandest arboreal ambitions, plus why

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Speaker 2: climate scientists say putting so many resources behind these natural

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Speaker 2: carbon offsets might be missing the forest for the trees.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back. We've been talking about a plan for conserving, growing,

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Speaker 2: or restoring one trillion trees led by Salesforce, billionaire Mark

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Speaker 2: Benioff and the World Economic Forum, But as Bloomberg Wealth

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Speaker 2: reporter Sophie Alexander found, they're still a long way from

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Speaker 2: reaching that goal. Think more than nine hundred and ninety

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Speaker 2: seven billion trees away, Sophie says. One reason the one

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Speaker 2: t dot org effort is lagging comes down to accountability.

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Speaker 1: So the way it's supposed to work is a company

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Speaker 1: is supposed to file a report one year after it has.

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Speaker 2: Made its pledge, and compliance can be inconsistent across the board.

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Speaker 2: Reports for the past year or late. Some aren't in

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Speaker 2: because they aren't doue yet, and some companies have gone

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Speaker 2: years without reporting at all.

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Speaker 1: So Amazon hasn't filed there, so you can't know what's

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Speaker 1: going on there. Unilever hasn't filed there's either, nor has

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Speaker 1: Nesle for the most recent one.

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Speaker 2: When Bloomberg reached out, Amazon declined to comment, Unilever didn't respond,

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Speaker 2: and a spokesperson for Nesli said it's close to finalizing

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Speaker 2: its twenty twenty three report. Mark Benioff's own Salesforce hasn't

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Speaker 2: even filed all its documentation, and Sophie says that speaks

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Speaker 2: to a deeper problem with campaigns like one t dot org.

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Speaker 2: It's not always easy to measure progress on the ground.

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Speaker 1: Salesforce is one of the co founders of one T

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Speaker 1: dot org. Of course it's Benioff's company, and so they've

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Speaker 1: really put a lot of you know, time it appears

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Speaker 1: into this. And Salesforce is also an interesting example because

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Speaker 1: they've actually only filed their reports with partial supporting document

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Speaker 1: for the past two reporting cycles, and they said that

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Speaker 1: that's because it's just really hard to know. It's really

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Speaker 1: hard to have all the information that you need to

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Speaker 1: be able to tell what's actually going on. So they

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Speaker 1: went through a month's long process to figure out what's

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Speaker 1: happened to the trees, and they found that ten percent

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Speaker 1: of the trees that they have planted have since been

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Speaker 1: lost due to, you know, natural disasters and things like that.

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Speaker 2: Tim Christofferson, Salesforce's head of climate work, told Bloomberg that, quote,

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Speaker 2: we'll be able to have a much much clearer picture

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Speaker 2: in the next reporting round unquote. He also said they

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Speaker 2: want to share their information with the other participating companies

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Speaker 2: because quote the level of sophistication within the companies also varies.

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Speaker 2: Some of them, to be honest, are quite scared. They're

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Speaker 2: concerned that they want to do the right thing, but

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Speaker 2: they don't have the expertise unquote. And Mark Benioff, in

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Speaker 2: a text message to Bloomberg, said, quote, I am committed

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Speaker 2: to the trees and ocean hard emoji unquote. There's another

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Speaker 2: reason it's hard to pin down the initiative's impact. Some

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Speaker 2: companies are relying on something called the carbon market to

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Speaker 2: meet their goals.

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Speaker 1: So the carbon market works like this. I am a company,

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Speaker 1: and I have all of these emissions that I want

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Speaker 1: to offset so that I can reach net zero or

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Speaker 1: net negative. I'm not going to be able to reduce

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Speaker 1: my emissions really quickly, so instead, I want to go

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Speaker 1: to a market where I can pay someone else to

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Speaker 1: not release emissions and then I can count that against

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Speaker 1: my emissions. And so what concerns scientists about this is

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Speaker 1: the idea that, hey, I'm a company and I'm going

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Speaker 1: to plant a trillian tree, help a plant to trillion trees.

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Speaker 1: But in reality, I'm actually just going to go to

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Speaker 1: this deeply flawed market, spend some money on some carbon credits,

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Speaker 1: and that's it. And who knows what's actually happening on

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Speaker 1: the other end.

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Speaker 2: And investigations into this market by Bloomberg, Green and others

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Speaker 2: found that many of the projects these companies take on

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Speaker 2: are removing far less carbon from the atmosphere than they

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Speaker 2: were designed to. That makes relying on the carbon market

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Speaker 2: as part of a pledge to an initiative like one

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Speaker 2: t dot org even more fraud Why make these pledges

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Speaker 2: if you're not going to file your report or achieve

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Speaker 2: your goal.

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Speaker 1: A lot of these companies have good intentions, they want

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Speaker 1: to do well, but I just don't think they realize

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Speaker 1: how many resources it takes to actually do this responsibly.

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Speaker 1: Like Salesforce, they spent months, they spent a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure they said themselves that the satellite equipment that

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Speaker 1: they're using to monitor these trees is expensive. They're having

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Speaker 1: people go out to far flung pace places to check

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Speaker 1: on the number of trees that they planted, and this

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Speaker 1: has absolutely nothing to do with their business. So I

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Speaker 1: think that some companies maybe have just stepped out of

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Speaker 1: their comfort zone a little too ambitiously.

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Speaker 2: What does Benioff's plan here say about how folks with

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Speaker 2: massive amounts of capital are choosing to direct their attention

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Speaker 2: and their philanthropic resources right now?

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Speaker 1: I think there's a disconnect between billionaire philanthropists and the

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Speaker 1: science community that is working to understand and fight climate change,

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Speaker 1: Because if you're a billionaire and you're trying to give

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Speaker 1: your money away, it's really easy to fall into the

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Speaker 1: trap of doing just like the biggest, shiniest thing without

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Speaker 1: taking into account how effective that is. So there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of other things that you know, I spoke

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Speaker 1: with scientists who said that would the money could be

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Speaker 1: better used for, For example, adaptation and getting prepared for

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Speaker 1: the effects of climate change is something that is just

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Speaker 1: there's just not nearly enough resources for. But it's just

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Speaker 1: not as sexy of a project as planting or saving

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Speaker 1: a trillion trees.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to The Big Take podcast from blue

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Speaker 2: Berg News. I'm Sarah Holder. This episode was produced by

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Speaker 2: Thomas lou It was edited by Aaron Edwards and Amanda

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Speaker 2: Colson Hurley. It was mixed by Veronica Rodriguez. It was

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Speaker 2: fact checked by Alex Sugiura. Naomi Shaven is our senior producer.

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Speaker 2: Our senior editor is Elizabeth Ponso. Nicole bumsterbor is our

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Speaker 2: executive producer. Sage Bauman is Bloomberg's head of podcasts. Please

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Speaker 2: subscribe and review The Big Take wherever you listen to podcasts.

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Speaker 2: It helps new listeners find the show. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 2: We'll be back next week.