WEBVTT - #571 Guest Host Guest Host Ashley Fantz with Marvin Anderson 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:04.800 On a Saturday afternoon in July of nineteen eighty two, 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:08.319 a young woman was walking home in Ashland, Virginia, when 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:11.319 she was approached by a man on a bicycle. He 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:14.640 offered to walk her home. She said no and kept walking, 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:18.239 but a few minutes later she saw the man again. 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:22.560 He attacked her and dragged her to a secluded wooded area, 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:27.360 then beat and raped her over and over. The woman 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:30.720 later described her attacker to police as a light skinned 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:34.480 black man with short, kinky hair. She also told them 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:37.800 something he'd said while assaulting her that he had had 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:42.760 quote other white girls. Officer Roy Anderson knew of only 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:46.080 one black man in town with a white girlfriend, eighteen 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:49.839 year old Marvin Anderson. When police picked Marvin up a 0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:53.360 few days later, he insisted he hadn't attacked that woman. 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:56.920 He had an alibi, and his mother and girlfriend backed 0:00:57.000 --> 0:01:00.200 him up. But the victim picked out Marvin I'm a 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:03.480 bunch of photos police presented to her, and she also 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:08.400 identified him in a live lineup of other suspects. All 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:11.479 of that sealed Marvin's fate with a jury who sent 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:15.800 him to prison for an unbelievable two hundred and ten years. 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:34.760 But this is Wrongful Conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:38.560 I'm Ashley Fontce, sitting in for Jason Flahm. I'm an 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:43.039 investigative reporter who's cover crime and police misconduct for decades. 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:48.600 I've also reported extensively on police bungling rape investigations, and 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:53.680 so I was very interested in this extraordinary and outrageous 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:56.840 story you're about to hear. I'd love for you guys 0:01:56.840 --> 0:02:00.800 to introduce yourselves. Marvin, can you introduce yourself please? 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:05.000 Yes, thank you for having me. My name is Marvin Anderson. 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:08.160 I was born and raised in Hanover County, Virginia, and 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:13.519 I spent fifteen years incarcerated and five years on parole 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:14.840 for a crime and did not committee. 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:18.320 Thanks Marvin. Vanessa can you introduce yourself please. 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:21.919 My name is Vanessa Podcain. I'm the director of Special 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:26.080 Litigation at the Innocence Project in New York City, and 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:30.040 over the course of the past two decades, I've helped 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:33.400 exonerate over forty people nationwide. 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:37.600 That's extraordinary, Vanessa. Thank you. Marvin. I've never been to 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:43.239 Hanover County. Take me back to your childhood in Hanover County. 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:46.520 It was a close knit community and African American people. 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:49.480 You know, everyone knew everyone. You know, my grandmother and 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:52.079 my great grandmother, all of them and my cousins were 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:55.000 all was you know, in the same community. And then 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:57.799 of course my mom and dad. I have three sisters. 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:00.720 I had one brother who had died in an accident 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:03.880 car accident when I was incarcerated. We all was close. 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:05.760 You know. We had a nice big yard, but we 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:09.600 could run around and play. We had dogs, chickens. A 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:12.280 lot of things that we did growing up was like, 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:14.639 you know, playing sports. 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:15.360 And what sport did you play? 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:20.440 Marvin, baseball, football, basketball, softball, a little bit of everything. 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:22.280 You know, what sport didn't you play? 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:27.440 Marvin didn't play volleyball too much. I did run track, 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:30.920 so it wasn't much that I didn't really do. And 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:33.760 at the time I didn't live too far from a 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:36.640 volunteer fire department, so I spent a lot of my 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:40.360 time there. At the age of ten, I was always 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:44.080 at the fire station, you know, doing something, washing trucks, 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:47.640 watching the guys train. Not only was I learning something, 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:51.320 but it was a means of keeping me out of trouble. 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:54.680 So from that time I was able to join the 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:57.680 fire service. At the age of thirteen. As a junior farreman, 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:01.600 I was able to train. I was to receive the 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:04.880 first set of five year I was able to ride 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:07.880 the trucks, learn how to pump the trucks, basically do 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:11.520 everything that a dart farmer would do. The only thing 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:14.680 that I couldn't do was go into a burning building. 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:17.560 What do you think drew you to want to be 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:21.880 a firefighter? It's a very specific and demanding job. 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:25.839 My mom, my dad, my grandparents. You know, they taught 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:28.680 us if there's someone out there in need or help, 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:33.680 always give help in hand, regardless what color they were. 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:36.440 If you can help them, you help them. And for 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:39.159 the fire service, that was for me was a way 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:40.200 of helping people. 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:44.080 The fire station. You had black people who worked there, 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:47.960 white people who worked there, a mixture of different ethnicities. 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:50.680 And what do you think that taught you as well? 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:56.640 That we all are equal? Back then, racism existed, but 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:02.600 I never really felt what it was until I got 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:05.720 arrested for my crime. You know, most African American child 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:09.800 to grow up knowing who they can be around. When 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:14.400 it came to racism, I just knew people that didn't 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:17.840 like my kind. But I knew to stay away from them. 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:22.440 I've respected them, Whether they respected me, that was on them. 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:26.560 According to census data, around fifty thousand people lived in 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:30.360 Hanover County in the early eighties. Out of those, forty 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:35.880 three thousand were white and less than seven thousand were black. So, Vanessa, 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:38.080 I want to turn to you now. Can you tell 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:41.200 us more about the racial climate in Hanover County at 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:41.720 this time? 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:45.600 Well, I think in general, it's important for people to understand, 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:50.160 you know, we're talking about nineteen eighty two, and if 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:54.120 we just go back twenty thirty years, we are in 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:58.159 the fifties and the sixties Virginia, and we are in 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:02.159 a period of racial segregation. This is before the Voting 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:05.160 Writes Act, or just within a decade and a half 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:10.000 of the assassination of Martin Luther King, and so it 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.880 may seem like, you know, that's far in America's history. 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:17.520 That was just a very brief period of time from 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:20.400 when we're talking about you know, when Marvin was eighteen 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.120 years old in Hanover, Virginia. 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:26.239 You had certain parts of the town where there's mostly 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.800 you know, African American people live in a certain part 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:32.320 of the town where it just only white people lived 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:35.520 at but I had to say this. I stood out 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:39.960 in Nashville because during that time my fiance was a 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:45.520 white woman, so that wasn't something that was well known 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:48.920 or for most white people during that time to get 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:51.119 used to seeing a black man with a white woman. 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:55.200 Then look, they would give us. It would burn a 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:59.320 hole through a wall. You know, how dare you? But 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:03.640 as far as my people, it's just two people dating. 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:07.160 They accepted it more than most white people did. So 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:10.880 kind of kept my distance, but try to live a 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:12.440 normal life as best as I could. 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:15.920 So at this point, you're eighteen years old, You and 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:19.840 your fiance have just moved from Richmond to Ashland, and 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:23.000 you're about to pursue your dream of becoming a full 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:26.160 fledged fireman. You must have felt like everything was going 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:27.000 your way more than. 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:31.480 The counter had just started the first fire program, Well 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:35.240 you could become a professional fireman, and I had just 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:39.240 signed up for it. It was supposed to start it that fall. 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:43.920 And then on July seventeenth, nineteen eighty two, this incredibly 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:47.960 horrific crime happened in Ashland. Vanessa, What do we know 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:49.360 about what happened that day? 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:54.560 The victim in this case was walking home. She was 0:07:54.920 --> 0:08:00.800 taking a shortcut through wooded area of rural over County 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:04.640 and was approached by a man who rode up to 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:08.200 her on a bicycle, threatened her with a gun, and 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:12.280 proceeded to sexually assault her. And it was a very 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:17.440 brutal attack that lasted over the course of a significant 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:21.440 period of time, and when it was over, she was 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:25.120 taken to the hospital, a rape kit was collected, her 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:28.480 clothing was collected. The victim in this case was a 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:33.440 white woman, and she described the assailant as a light 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:38.240 skinned black man with a medium frame, short hair mustache, 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:42.680 and there weren't a lot of clues as to who 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:47.480 this person might be, but at some point she related 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:51.400 that the man who attacked her said that he quote 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:57.120 had a white girl, And so the officer started to think, hmm, 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:01.000 who in town could it be that's black that we 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.679 know that is in a relationship or involved with somebody 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:09.280 who's white. And there was only one black man in 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:13.760 town that the officer knew who was involved with a 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:17.679 white woman, and that was Marvin Anderson. 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:21.720 Marvin, Ashland was a pretty small, tight knit community, Like 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:25.079 you said, at the time, did you hear anything about 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:25.880 what had happened? 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:29.560 The crime actually took place on a Saturday, and that 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:34.120 Sunday I had a softball game, so some of the 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:37.360 teammates of minds. They was talking about what had happened, 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:41.440 and during that time, a few of my teammates knew 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:43.920 the perpetrator that committed this crime. 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:48.080 People knew about the crime itself because it had made 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:51.200 the news. But I think you know what's so remarkable 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:56.439 about Marvin's case is that from the beginning, the community 0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:00.280 was aware of who really had committed the crime. 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:03.240 And we'll talk about that more and who that person 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:06.520 was a little bit later, but first, Marvin, can you 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:09.040 tell us about the moment that you realized you were 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:10.439 a suspect in the case. 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:13.680 I was at work at the time. I worked at 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:17.320 Kingsmain par of my amusement park, and one of my 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:20.080 supervisors came down to my posts and said they needed 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:23.560 to see me an administration. And when I entered a room, 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:26.880 there was the officer that I knew, and I actually 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:28.760 called him by his first name. I said, Hey, Roy, 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:32.000 how you doing you know? And he didn't say anything. 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:35.000 And this officer was someone you knew pretty well. 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:38.240 Knew him so well that I've actually had eaten dinner 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:41.000 at his dinner table with his kids. When I was 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:45.480 growing up, Roy kids plays sports, so of course we 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:49.240 met playing sports. So it wasn't like he didn't know me. 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:49.880 He knew me. 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:54.480 So these two officers, Roy Anderson and Marshall Bailey are 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:55.319 questioning you. 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:58.920 The other officer mostly did all the talking. And that's 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:00.960 when he started to questioning about, you know, where was 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:03.760 I at on the seventeenth of July around six thirty 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:06.320 seven o'clock that afternoon. And I gave him my honest 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:08.480 answer and I said, hey, I could have been anywhere, 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:10.719 which is true. I could have been playing sports. I 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:12.640 could have been at the fire station, you know, I 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:16.760 just could have been anywhere. And he was asking about, 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:19.800 you know, would you be willing to take a polograph test? 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:21.439 And the course I agree to do. 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:26.640 So, Marvin, throughout all of that experience where you're being questioned, 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:31.319 you're cooperating with them. Did you ever think I should 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:32.000 get a lawyer? 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:37.560 No, you know, not once doing that entire question and 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:41.000 even going down to the county lockup, did I think 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:44.320 about a lawyer? You know, because I knew I didn't 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:46.720 do what they said had happened. 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:51.000 You know in cases like this, you know, you have Marvin, 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:54.640 he's eighteen years old. They're law enforcement from his community. 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:57.520 So they're people who you know, he's been raised to 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:01.360 give a certain amount of deference to, and people that 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:04.840 he knows, and they're coming at him from a perspective of, 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:07.840 you know, we need your help in this investigation. And 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:12.000 so he's not thinking that people are out to get 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:14.959 him or that he is going to be railroaded for 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:17.920 something that he didn't do. And we see this in 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:21.760 wrongful conviction cases where people trust in the police, they 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:24.679 trust in the system, they trust in the process, and 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:26.719 are totally betrayed by it. 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:31.800 Vanessa, what do we know about Royan Marshall's training at 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:35.120 that time? Are they beat cops? How big was Ashlan 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:35.960 Police Department? 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:38.760 I don't really have the answers to that, but I 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:43.560 think that it's helpful to contextualize that. You know, we're 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:49.240 talking about very small towns, you know, a population of 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:52.400 around seven thousand, eight thousand people, you know, and when 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:56.840 you consider police forces in more rural areas, they're not 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:02.600 really trained or have experience often times in handling serious crimes. 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.880 And so when something like a rape or a murder 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:09.000 happens a lot of times. We see in wrongful conviction 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.360 cases that you have forces that just don't have the 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:16.199 training or experience to really go about these more serious investigations. 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:19.960 Right, So let's get back to that day. They didn't 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:22.520 end up doing the polygraph test, but there was a 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.040 photo array and a live lineup. 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:26.439 And in front of thing about it. When I first 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:29.840 walked into that room, I saw a picture, a photo 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:32.800 of me in a photo and I knew I'd never 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:35.560 been in trouble, so I was just curious, how did 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:38.720 he get this photo of me? That photo was my 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:40.000 job ID photo. 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:44.319 His picture was the only color photograph among other black 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:47.280 and white photographs that were mug shots, and so it's 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:50.960 a standout. While it's a photo array that has many choices, 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:54.360 in reality, because of the suggestiveness, there's only one right 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:58.800 choice of who the suspect is, and once that identification 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:02.360 was made from the photo ray, he's then put in 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:05.960 an in person lineup. And what's so problematic about this 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:09.280 is that he's the only person from the photo array 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:13.240 who's repeated in the in person lineup, and so it's 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:17.920 it's obvious who the suspect is when she sees the lineup, 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:21.920 and this is referred to in cases as unconscious transference. 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:23.440 You know, we don't know at this point is she 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:29.040 recognizing Marvin from the lineup or from the incident. 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:33.480 You know, my thought after the fact is that you know, 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:37.840 if someone has shown you a photo of a person, 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:42.080 regardless who that person may be, and within ten minutes 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:45.680 you see that same person standing directly at front you, 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:49.400 you're going to remember that phase of that photo. And 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:51.680 that's what happened, Vanessa. 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:55.120 Let's talk about the rape kit for a moment. Where 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:59.280 was the rape kit tested and the significance of the zerology. 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:02.720 Of course, this is a era before we get to DNA. 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:07.120 At that time in sexual assault cases, the type of 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:10.720 testing that was used was called ABO blood typing, and 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:15.520 all it could do was include an individual among a 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:19.200 large relatively large percentage of the population that could have 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:22.640 been the source of biological evidence at a scene. So 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:26.320 it was flight years far less precise than DNA testing. 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:29.400 The victim in this case, after the sexual assault was 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:32.520 taken to the hospital, a rape kit was collected, Zeman 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:38.240 was recovered, and the evidence went to the Virginia Division 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:42.160 of Forensic Sciences, which is the State Crime Laboratory for 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:46.960 zerological testing, and an analyst there, Mary Jane Burton, did 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:51.960 a forensic testing and that testing was unable to exclude 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:53.880 Marvin as the assailant. 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:57.600 And just a note for everybody listening, remember that name 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:01.240 Mary Jane Burton, because she'll be very important to this 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:05.960 case later on. So then, Marvin, on January twentieth, you 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:06.720 get arrested. 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:11.720 Of course, they took their first mug shot of me, 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:16.520 fingerprinted me, and read me my charges that I was 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:21.400 charged with rap, satomy, robbery, introduction and I was locked 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:27.040 up that night, and that's when everything happened that kind 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:41.040 of destroyed my youth. By this time, the community is 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:44.000 really talking about what happened. They got the wrong person, 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:44.720 this who did it? 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:48.080 And all this From the very beginning, the community knew 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:52.640 because Otis Lincoln had stolen a bicycle earlier that day, 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:55.160 and that was the bicycle that was used in the attack. 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:57.960 One of the guys that paid on my team said, yeah, 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:01.320 you know, Pop stole my bike. There was a name 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:03.960 that they called him, Pop Lincoln. He was referring to 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:07.240 stole his bicycle, went off in the direction of where 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:09.000 the crime had taken place and. 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:13.719 People immediately made this connection between Otis Lincoln and the crime, 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:16.360 but of course it was too lat because police had 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:22.200 already focused erroneously based on this suggestive identification on Marvin. 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:26.919 So we went to my attorney and informed him what 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.800 the community is saying. They're saying that this John Pop 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:34.359 Lincoln is the person they committed this crime. And my 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:37.639 attorney sais well, I knew him. I represented him some 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:41.480 years ago on a temporary rape on a female. So 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:45.640 at that time, I'm thinking to myself that hey, okay, 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:48.520 I got someone that's on my side now, someone that 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:51.560 knows this man is capable of doing these things. So 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:55.159 we'd hired him and met with him several times, and 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:58.440 each time we met with him, we was bringing him 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:02.560 new information about what happened that day. You know, we 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:06.439 brought in more witnesses that testify that I was at 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:09.240 a certain place, certain time. One of the witnesses that 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:12.680 testified in my behalf was that Lincoln said that day 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:15.840 that if he found a white woman and if they 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:17.800 didn't want to give him any he would take it. 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:20.879 And it's just sad to say it, but that's what 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:25.639 he did that day. So fast forward, we went to 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:28.879 our first put him in their hearing, and the victim 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:32.960 came in and she described her attacker as a very 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:36.840 very light, skinny complexing person, straight, white teeth, short kink 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:40.040 of hair, maybe one hundred and fifty pounds, maybe five 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:44.680 sixty five seven. Okay, Well, as you can see me today, 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.920 I am not very very light skinny complexing person. And 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:52.560 at that time I worked at kingsmani amusement park out 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:55.120 in the sun all day long, so there's no way 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:59.600 I could be a light skinned complexing person. That's not me. However, 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:03.720 the person and she described was Johna's Lincoln, but yet 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:06.120 she identified me as her attacker. 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.840 So the trial began in December of nineteen eighty two 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:15.040 before Judge Richard Taylor. Your attorney was Donald White. Take 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:17.040 us back to that day, Marvin, if you can. 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:22.280 I'm sitting there, I had my family behind me, my mom, dad, grandparents, 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:26.120 and I look over at my jury. You know, It's 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:30.679 consisted of eight women, four men, all white, and I'm thinking, 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:34.480 I'm going to prison. No matter what happens, I'm going 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:39.960 to prison. So they come off turning. Then called the 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:43.399 victim O Ones to stand to testify, and he asked 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:46.040 you know what happened. She said. I was returning from 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:48.440 a restaurant, had a bucket of chicken in my hand. 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:51.920 This black person approached me on the bicycle. He asked 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:53.680 her if he could walk me home, and I said no, 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:56.679 I don't live too far. He proceeded up the path, 0:19:57.000 --> 0:20:00.280 and when I approached him for the second time, he's 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:03.440 laying on the side holding his knee like he hurt himself. 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:06.560 And when I stopped to assist him, that's when he 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:09.159 grabbed me. He dragged me in the woods, beat me, 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:12.520 raped me, and he told me that you know, I 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:14.800 wasn't his first white woman, that he had a white 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:17.119 girlfriend and all of that, and he dragged me further 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:20.919 into the woods and he beat me and raped me again, 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:25.880 and then he left me there. So when it came 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:29.080 to my attorney to question her, you know, he basically 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:32.359 asked the same question that the cor attorney did. What happened? 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:34.959 Is the person that you know did this to you? 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:39.359 In his courtroom? She said yes, once again, she identified 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:43.639 me as her attacker. So I'm still looking at the jury, 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:46.800 you know, and every time it was almost like every 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:49.679 word that came out of her mouth, they knew she 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:52.720 was telling the truth. No matter who my attorney put 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:55.480 on the stand was testified, what was gonna be a lie. 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:59.359 I had my fiance testified that I picked her up 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:02.560 from work one time, I went to my mother's house 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:06.040 and washed the car. Return home, We ate dinner, We 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:09.760 watched Fantasy Islands and The Love Boat that night, and 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:13.480 we went to bed. I had my mother neighbors testified 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:16.920 that I was there washing the car. And not only that, 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:20.359 I had the two witnesses that overWe heard John's Lincoln 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:23.040 at the car wash saying what he would do to 0:21:23.119 --> 0:21:25.320 a white woman if they didn't want to give him 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:28.560 any So I'm thinking all of this in my favor. 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:32.879 And once my attorney put Lincoln on the stand to 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:38.200 testify that somehow it would tricker her memory of what happened, 0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:41.760 just by seeing him and hearing his voice. Well, my 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:44.760 attorney didn't do that. He did not put Lincoln on 0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:48.800 the stand. And when I heard the judge ask my 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:52.159 attorney if you had any more further questions, he said no, 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:54.800 you're hona. I turned to my attorney and go, hey, 0:21:54.840 --> 0:21:57.240 wait a minute, what about me? I want to testify? 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:01.359 When am I gonna testify his words? Were, Oh, everything's good, 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:05.120 we don't need you to testify. He refused to put 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:07.359 make it on stand, nor did he put me on stand. 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:12.119 Marvin. I can't even imagine how frustrating that was for you. 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:15.439 Frustrating is just not really a strong enough word to 0:22:15.520 --> 0:22:19.320 capture that. But as you would learn many years later, 0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:23.280 your attorney had his own reasons for not calling Lincoln 0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:24.080 to testify. 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:30.000 Donald White represented John Otis Lincoln in connection with another 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:34.560 assault that Lincoln was accused of, and that was a 0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:39.119 conflict because Marvin's defense at his trial was I'm not 0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:42.120 the person who committed this crime. This crime was committed 0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:45.399 by someone else. That someone else was a mystery at 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:48.120 the time of trial. But of course Donald White could 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:53.680 have presented evidence that that person was John Otis Lincoln, 0:22:53.960 --> 0:22:55.080 and he chose not to. 0:22:55.720 --> 0:22:59.879 Wow, Vanessa, that is just unbelievable. Rather than disclose that 0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:03.000 he had a conflict of interest, which would have disqualified 0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:07.760 him as Marvin's attorney, Donald White just left John Otis 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:12.000 Lincoln out of the trial totally. So pretty much all 0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:14.840 the jury had to go on was the victim's identification 0:23:15.000 --> 0:23:15.680 of you, Marvin. 0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:20.480 The jury went out for deliberation in about thirty to 0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:25.080 forty five minutes, came back guilty for two cancer rates, stotomy, 0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:29.439 robbery in aduction, and just ask them, do you have 0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:32.159 a recommendation for sentenzen They say yes, we'anna we do 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:38.080 two hundred and ten years in prison. Everything in the 0:23:38.119 --> 0:23:42.600 courtroom went blank, went dark. I could hear everyone in 0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:46.800 the court room, but I couldn't see noone. My family 0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:50.600 were sitting directly behind me, and I turned around to 0:23:50.640 --> 0:23:52.480 look at my mom and dad, and I could not 0:23:52.520 --> 0:23:56.200 see them. It's like I had fell in a dark 0:23:56.280 --> 0:24:01.480 hole and there was no light anywhere. I could hear 0:24:01.520 --> 0:24:04.320 them talking to me, saying, you know, everything's gonna be 0:24:04.320 --> 0:24:07.040 all right. We're gonna get you out. I could feel 0:24:07.040 --> 0:24:10.880