1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A beautiful young mom seemingly 2 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: goes out for a bi cried on Mother's Day, all alone, 3 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: where it's her husband. Where are her children? That's another question, 4 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: not probative, that really doesn't prove anything. But what does 5 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: prove something is that her husband, Barry Moore few had 6 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: cuts of scrapes and scabs on his arms. How did 7 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: that happen? His alibi is falling apart, and now does 8 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 1: triangulation show that he literally chased her around their home, 9 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: their mansion before she went missing. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 10 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: We are bringing you the very latest out of a 11 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 1: courtroom where a preliminary hearing has been going hot and heavy. 12 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: We're seeing a little bit of the state's case. Although 13 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: the arrest weren't for barrymoreph you the husband has been 14 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: kept under seal. Why I hear it's over one hundred 15 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: pages long? Boy? Would I like to get my mits 16 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 1: on that arrest? IFFA David? I mean, and see Grace, 17 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Who murdered Suzanne Morphew? Yes, go ahead, 18 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: drag her name through them up because she had an affair, 19 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 1: that's not the killer, and I don't care if she 20 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: had one affair or ten affairs, or if she was 21 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: a nun and the monastery she was murdered. Don't tell 22 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: me she's missing. She's dead and I want to know 23 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: who murdered her. Again, thank you for being with us 24 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation in series Sex sim one to eleven, 25 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: take a listen to this our friends at Denver seven. 26 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: In court today, Bombshell knew evidence in the disappearance of 27 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: Susanne Morephew. We learned she was having an affair for 28 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 1: two years prior to her disappearance, that investigators only found 29 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: out about the affair through a spy pen that recorded 30 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: audio between Susanne and her lover, and that she traveled 31 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: at least six times out of state to be with him. 32 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: We also learned barrymore Few and Susanne argued shortly before 33 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: her disappearance about money, in particular about Suzanne's inheritance, which 34 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 1: the couple partially spent on their large house in Chaffee County. 35 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: On the other hand, the defense argued no blood or 36 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: trace evidence was ever found, not in the home, not 37 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: in Barry's truck, and Susanne's body has never been found either. 38 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 1: They also argued Berry did everything a concerned husband would 39 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: do after the disappearance of his wife, texted her, called 40 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: his daughters, asked neighbors to check on Suzanne, and never 41 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: objected to police searches of the home or his truck. 42 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:04,519 Speaker 1: The defense also revealed Suzanne was on antidepressants before her disappearance. 43 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: That sounds like a heck of a defense opening statement. 44 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: But guess what, I think there's plenty of ammunition to 45 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: fire right back at every single thing that Russell Haythorne 46 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: den Verse seven just reported with me an all star 47 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: panel to break it down and put it back together again. 48 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author, I've read Flags on Amazon 49 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: and hosted today with doctor Wendy KCBQ, San Diego, doctor 50 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: Joy Crossham psychologist, faculty Saint Leo University, research consultant, author 51 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: Operation SS. It goes on and on and on. Cheryl McCollum, 52 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: Founder director of the Cold Case Research Institute. I know 53 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: for a fact she is a forensic expert. I've been 54 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: on many a crime scene with Miss Cheryl McCullum. You 55 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: can find her at Coldcase Crimes dot org. Death Investigator. Now, 56 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: that is a creepy title. Joe Scott, You're gonna have 57 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: to work on that for a minute. Death investigator. But 58 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: when we say this about Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, 59 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, 60 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: star of a brand new hit series, The Piketon Massacre 61 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio. And this gentleman has been on literally thousands 62 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 1: and I would be willing to venture over ten thousand 63 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 1: homicide scenes. But first to Mike King, our special guest host, 64 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 1: Profiling Evil. Now that gets my attention right there, Profiling 65 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: Evil on YouTube. Former police officer in Utah, former Chief 66 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 1: investigator Wow Utah Attorney General's Office, author of Deceived, an 67 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 1: investigative memoir of the Zion Society cult. You know you've 68 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 1: been hanging around with the wrong people. King. What I'm 69 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: interested in is this profiling evil because you have been 70 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: on this Suzanne Morephew disappearance from day one, and I 71 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: don't know if you're like me. I know this is crazy, 72 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: but sometimes, you know, Mike King, I have get up 73 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: at five o'clock to feed the cat, the dog that 74 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: guineas my mother, or the children, La la la. One 75 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 1: of the first things I do is. I go to 76 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 1: Google and I put in Susanne. More few I send 77 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 1: techs and emails five am Eastern to every source I've 78 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 1: got trying to find out what do you know? What 79 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: do you know? What do you know? You know everything 80 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: that's been going on in that courtroom? Hit me? Oh well, 81 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: I think it's been an amazing four days and I 82 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: really have enjoyed listening talking to Okay, you know what, 83 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: Mike King, I really like you. But cut right to 84 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: it when I say, hit me, I don't want to 85 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: hear about the tea party you've been having at the courthouse. 86 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 1: Give me the evidence and give it to me, now, 87 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: you know what. It boils down to a circumstantial case 88 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: that I think is pretty powerful, and I think the 89 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: prosecution showed it. Is it possible? Yeah, a lot of 90 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: things are possible, but here it is scratches on the arm. 91 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: Why does the guy walk in the one time he 92 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: talks with police and goes to his home and he's 93 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 1: wearing a long sleeve shirt. Did you hear that? Okay, 94 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: go ahead and laugh all ye have little faith. But 95 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 1: when you are out in Colorado in the summertime and 96 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: it's getting hot and you're you are buttoned up neck 97 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: to wrist to toe. You're covered up. Okay, you know what. 98 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: A defense turning could have a field day with that. 99 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: But a jury may sit up and park up and 100 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 1: listen to it like I just did. So he goes 101 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: to talk to cops and he's got on a long 102 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 1: sleeve shirt. Okay, go ahead, yeah, crazy, I mean we go, 103 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 1: We go to the bike that was clearly staged. In 104 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: my opinion, it's there's no artifact to suggest that there 105 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: were scuffs on the road, that there was a collision 106 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: down the hillside. The police even testify that the bike 107 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: front wheel was turned in a manner that would be 108 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,679 Speaker 1: suggestive of it being rolled down a hill with nothing 109 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: holding onto the handlebars. All of the previous alibies of 110 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: mountain lions and the boogeyman just okay, wait a minute, 111 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: Wait a minute, wait a minute. I will be laughed 112 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: out of court if I go in and go Well, 113 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: the way the front tire was turned makes me think 114 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: that they can shred it up like a razor. Give 115 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: me something more, give me something harder than that, for 116 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: pete sake. Ye, the bike wheel was turned. Yeah, so 117 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: as a bike wheel turned without creating some kind of 118 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: artifact in the ground, in the dirt, and there's a 119 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: body on that bike because you mean a crash, a 120 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: bike wheel is turned and there's no evidence of a 121 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: crash evidence. Okay, now that makes a little bit of sense. 122 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: But I want to get I want to get down 123 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: to wait. You just kind of glossed over the cuts 124 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: on the arm. You tell me, Hannah long Slaves, Well, 125 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: where did the cut center into this? Well? The testimony 126 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: from the police, from the sheriff's offices that there are 127 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: scratches that are consistent with those you'd see by finger nails. 128 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: Those I don't know any other way to put it 129 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: than I know how to put it. I know how 130 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: to put it. Hold on because if argument de juries before, 131 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: they looked like a little bit of crescent moons, half moons. 132 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: I wonder, Susanne Morphey war fake nails. I just wonder. Okay, guys, 133 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut. Ninety two met jay 134 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: blow nine knees, Denver. On day three of the preliminary hearing, 135 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: the Chaffee County under Sheriff Andy Rourick testified that Barry 136 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: moorefew had three scratch marks on his left arm and 137 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: injuries on his hands when he spoke with more a 138 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: few a few days after Morphew's wife, Susanne disappeared last summer. 139 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: Suzanne was last seen on Mother's Day and has since 140 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: been presumed dead. The under Sheriff said more Ifhew claimed 141 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: he got the injuries from a tree while searching for Suzanne. Oh, 142 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: I didn't realize he was out searching for her. But 143 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: also interesting, wait a minute, a minute, he only speaks 144 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: to cops days after she goes missing, Is that right, 145 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: Mike King? Well, that's the testimony, and of course we 146 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: know that he came to the scene the night he 147 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: returns from Denver to the scene where the bicycle is, 148 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: and then they take him into the home on the 149 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 1: one visit he makes to the home, which was also 150 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: troubling because he doesn't look around for his wife. He 151 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: doesn't say, hey, this is out of place, or that's 152 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: out of place, or where's her purse. He just goes in, 153 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,319 Speaker 1: retrieves the document, according to court testimony, and then they 154 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: walk out of the house. What document does he go 155 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: into retreat an article of clothing? What article of clothing? Well, 156 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: I think it's our bike shorts. If I remember, right, Nancy, 157 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: And I think it was so that the dogs could 158 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: search for that sin. Is that supposed to be the 159 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 1: first time he's back in the home. It is the 160 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: first time. Yes, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Of course 161 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:18,559 Speaker 1: we're gonna have to bring in doctor Torry Crows and 162 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: on this the actual expert, the psychologist. But can we 163 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 1: just talk about this for one minute? Okay, Cheryl, did 164 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: you do you remember the oh um, let's see, they 165 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: played bad boys, Bad Boys that it was cops, Cops, Cops. 166 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,599 Speaker 1: Did you ever notice in Cops there would be a 167 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 1: guy just sitting in his recliner having a beer, watching TV, 168 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you'd seen the background cops 169 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: running through and the guy didn't even look up, Like 170 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: if a cop came running through my house, I would 171 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: get up and chase them, why are you here? But 172 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:56,439 Speaker 1: you know it was just just normal. Okay, Why does 173 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: Barry Morphey this the first time he's gone in the 174 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: home since his wife is reported missing? Not by him, 175 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 1: I might add, And he just goes, he gets a 176 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: pair of her shorts and comes back out. Man, I'd 177 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: be all over that place trying to find what I 178 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: could find help me again. I think if we go 179 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: back to what you just mentioned, he's not the one 180 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: that even alerted the police. He didn't call the police. 181 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: He wasn't frantic looking for her. Cheryl quit saying what 182 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,559 Speaker 1: I just said. But I think it's police. I just 183 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: said that. Say something new. Okay. Here one when he 184 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: offers one hundred thousand dollars, he offers one hundred thousand 185 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: dollars for her safe return, not for any information, not 186 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: for the person that did it, but for her safe return, 187 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: so he knows he's never gonna have to part with 188 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: that one hundred grand. Okay, wait a minute, what I'm 189 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 1: talking about if somebody okay, you know what, mute her? Okay, 190 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: I'm going to go to doctor Jerry Crossing. Okay, Jory, listen. 191 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 1: He goes into the house for the first time his 192 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: wife has been reported missing. I would be tearing the 193 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: place up. Did she leave me a note? Did she this? 194 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 1: Did she that is the bed? Made up? Or clothes here? 195 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: Or purse here? There are her diamond earrings anything. He'd 196 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: be looking for any clue where my husband was. It's 197 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: not like him to just not show up. I'd be 198 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: on my iPhone trying to do life three sixty everything 199 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,439 Speaker 1: to find him. He just walks in, grabs a pair 200 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: of pass goes here. What He's not very well planned 201 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: on this at all. That's what one of the things 202 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: I noticed from the beginning. He's kind of making it 203 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: up as he goes. He may have had a plan, 204 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: but not down to the fine details. Just like this, 205 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:44,959 Speaker 1: you know, not going in and being some kind of 206 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: a dramatic emotional response looking for his wife like you described. 207 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: And he goes and gets the clothing article for the 208 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: dogs to get a cent off of. And that's it. 209 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: No more investigating of the house. I can tell you 210 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,199 Speaker 1: what he did. Oh Nash, she wants a second chance 211 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: because he wanted out of that house. He wanted the 212 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: police out of that house, because he knew he had 213 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: darts in the dryer. He knew he had a twenty 214 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: two caliber bullet on the floor, He knew there were 215 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: some things in that house he did not want them 216 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 1: to see. I don't think he knew he left behind 217 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: the twenty two caliber bullet. I don't think he realized 218 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: he had left the dark gun in the dryer. I 219 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: think all that he goes back to what doctor Jerry 220 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: Crows and just said, yes, you're right, he did those things, 221 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: but I don't think he knew about it, because I 222 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: think this was very well planned. You know, Wendy Patrick 223 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: Chryl you'll probably remember me telling you this. I remember 224 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: my boss they elected DA called me down to his 225 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: office one time, well one many times, and he had 226 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: his newspaper up, like he always did, and I was 227 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: standing there looking at the back of the newspaper and 228 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: he said, Nancy. I said, yes, sir. He went, do 229 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: you think you get too emotionally involved in your cases? 230 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: And I see, guess anyway, okay, and then I left. 231 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: That was it. And what I was leading up when 232 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 1: I was leading up to Wendy Patrick is doctor Joory 233 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: has an analysis which I think is correct. Cheryl McCollum 234 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: has an analysis who I think is correct. But in 235 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: that moment, just then, when I was talking about my 236 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: husband would never just go missing or not leave me 237 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: a note or a text probably and I come in 238 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: and he's not here. Just thinking about that scenario got 239 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: me nervy. Just thinking that that could happen. I would 240 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: be completely torn up. Yeah, well, you know, your emotion 241 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: makes you good at your job. And good at your show. 242 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: You know, emotion is one of those things that you 243 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: just can't hide if it's authentic. And if but he 244 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: had no emotion, it's not about me, it's about him. 245 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: And that's the evidence that is going to be emphasized 246 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: throughout because action speak louder than words, so to emotions, 247 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: and for him to have had no emotional reaction, that 248 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: lack of demeanor, that lack of the kind of natural 249 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: emotions that anybody would have even under the circumstances, is 250 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: a huge piece of evidence. Now, sure it's not what 251 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: he said, and maybe not even necessarily what he did, 252 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: but the fact that he was able to so calmly 253 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: go and retrieve whatever they asked him to retrieve without 254 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: that characteristic panic and just dread all of the kinds 255 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: of very strong emotions one would have in that circumstance 256 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: if they weren't a killer. That in and of itself 257 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: is going to be so powerful in a case like this. 258 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: Compare his behavior and his emotion levels to other incidences 259 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: with his wife. I mean, you know, there were domestic violence, 260 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: there was the aggression. He's highly emotional, but for him 261 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: all of a sudden now to shut down just like this. 262 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: He's trying to control himself and as much as the 263 00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: environment as he possibly can. Very much out of art, 264 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: although in court he's apparently gushing at his two adult 265 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: daughters who were siding with him for their own reasons. Guys, 266 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: we've got new evidence that we're learning at that preliminary 267 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: hearing and with us is host profiling evil on YouTube. 268 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: It's awesome, Mike King, who knows everything that's gone on 269 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: in the courtroom, including this, take a listen to our 270 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: friend Laurence Sharf Fox twenty one one o three. It 271 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: was the first time we ever heard that Barry Morphew 272 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: had any type of scratches or injuries the weekend of 273 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: Susanne's disappearance, and investigators believe it was fingernails scratches on 274 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: his upper left arm, but Barry told investigators it was 275 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: from tree branches when he was searching for Susanne. Chief 276 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: E County under Sheriff Andy Rourick says the door to 277 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: the couple's master bedroom on the first floor showed evidence 278 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: of forced entry from the outside, something the previous owners 279 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: said wasn't there when they moved out. Investigators also found 280 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: a twenty two caliber unspent shellcasey on Suzanne's side of 281 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: the bed, and deputies were told to look for three 282 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: books Susanne kept together, a Bible, at Alanon book and 283 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 1: a journal. Investigators never found the journal and mentioned finding 284 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: a book finding that had been burned in the couple's fireplace. Oh, 285 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: dear Lord in Heaven, Mike King, you didn't say anything 286 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: about the book burn in the fireplace. Yeah, my gat man, 287 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: isn't it? Isn't that something? I mean, who would try 288 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 1: out his tequila for a shot of espresso a book 289 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 1: burn Who goes in birds a book in their fireplace 290 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 1: unless it's on a movie set or they're trying to 291 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: destroy evidence. Yeah, really interesting. And who would destroy a 292 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: journal that they put so much heart and emotion into 293 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: that That really is troubling. The other two books that 294 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 1: the Bible and Alanon book on healing kind of understanding 295 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 1: people who are going through traumatic experiences. Some people of 296 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 1: theory that it had to do with addictions of Susans. 297 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: That's not what the book's about. It's about understanding others 298 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: who have gone through challenges and addiction. Yeah, the alan 299 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: On book does not mean she had an addiction. I 300 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: remember when we were doing Dancing with the Stars. There 301 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: was a contestant that would come and sit on my 302 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: trailer hitch all the time. He always had an alan 303 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: On book with him and he lived by it. He 304 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 1: would go through it almost every time I saw him. 305 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: He had the alan On book when he wasn't dancing 306 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 1: to give him strength, and it really worked. I wonder 307 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: why she needed strength. I can only guess. But what 308 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: I can do is analyze those cuts on his arm. 309 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, death investigator author. I'm not even going 310 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: to ask you how many thousands of homicide scenes you've 311 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: been on, how many bodies you've looked at. Let's talk 312 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 1: about the cuts on his arm. I'm so happy he 313 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: said he got the cuts from a tree, because too, 314 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: that is nothing like fingernail. No, it's not. I can 315 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: completely obliterate this in just a couple of takes. Just 316 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: give me a second, if everybody that's listening to this 317 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: will actually turn your fingers toward your face and look 318 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 1: at your fingernails. You had mentioned how there are crescent 319 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 1: shaped marks that are left behind by nails. You're absolutely right. 320 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: That happens when somebody clutches. Somebody like to defend themselves. 321 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,479 Speaker 1: But what they're talking about is scratch marks. Now, if 322 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 1: you'll think about a plowed field, when you see in 323 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 1: the spring when fields have been plowed, that's what scratch 324 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 1: marks actually look look like. They're they're in rows, they're uniformed. 325 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: You have them when you have tree branch scratches. These 326 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 1: are all irregular. Just think about going out in your 327 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: yard and trim and a hedge or something like that. 328 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:54,919 Speaker 1: The branches are randomized, not fingernails. Okay. And when she 329 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: would have scratched him, Nancy, imagine this, her nails would 330 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: have collected all of the skin cells and it would 331 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: have if you've ever seen old paint that kind of 332 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: rolls up when people are scraping things, that top layer, 333 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: the epidermist literally comes off and it embeds beneath the nails. 334 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: He had to get rid of her body, destroy evidence. 335 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: And also there was one other thing that kind of 336 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: stood out to me about this is the fact that 337 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: they said he had other injuries to his hands. What 338 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: does that mean Because they didn't say scratches, they said 339 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: other injuries. I'm wondering if he had contusions otherwise known 340 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 1: as bruises, where maybe he had been pounding her, it 341 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: left marks on her. Maybe they were abraided in some way. 342 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: You know, there's actually a practice in forensics called anti 343 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: mortem forensic forensic pathology where I've been involved in these cases, Nancy, 344 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:54,439 Speaker 1: where we go and actually examine living suspects, living individuals, 345 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,400 Speaker 1: go to the emergency room and you take pictures. I hope, 346 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,439 Speaker 1: I hope with everything that is with in me that 347 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: the police thoroughly documented these marks on his body with photography, 348 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: I mean all all over him, every inch of his body, 349 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: and that they can get these not to some general practitioner, 350 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,199 Speaker 1: but to an actual forensic mythologist, because what they're going 351 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: to be looking for is the age of the injuries, 352 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: because that's going to come up. They will know are 353 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: they fresh, this is consistent with the amount of times 354 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: she's been missing, and also the degree the nature of 355 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: what could have generated this, because this is going to 356 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: be if we don't find her body, this is going 357 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: to be the closest to anything that we're going to 358 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 1: come up with. We're not going to find her body, Bam. 359 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: I don't think we're going to ever find her body, 360 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: because if we haven't found it by now, I don't 361 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: think we're going to find it. You know, when you 362 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: don't know a horse, look at his strack record. They've 363 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,679 Speaker 1: looked everywhere they can think of, and so far nothing 364 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about scratches 365 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 1: and I stand corrected. Although I think what you and 366 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: I are saying are not mutually exclusive. I think you 367 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: can have the crescent grab marks, but you're right when 368 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:29,640 Speaker 1: you scratch down, that's a perfect comparison to freshly dug 369 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: rose out in the field. And that is very different 370 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: from passing tree branches and then scraping your arms. Why 371 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,159 Speaker 1: would they scrape his hands, I don't know, but completely 372 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: different markings. So this is the first we're hearing about 373 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: these cuts on Barry Morphew's hands and as Joe Scott 374 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: Morgan accurately pointed out, and other injuries. Take a listen 375 00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: to our friends at nine knees Denver. Earlier in the day, 376 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 1: John Grucing, a former FBI agent, testified that the day 377 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: after Susanne disappeared, when Babby was heading to Broomfield for 378 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: a business trip, he went in the wrong direction on 379 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: Route fifty, heading not to Broomfield but towards the area 380 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: where Suzanne's bike helmet was later found. Grucing testified that 381 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: Morphew explained he was following a large elk down Route 382 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: fifty to see when it's antlers would fall off, though 383 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: under Sheriff Rork testified that elk don't have antlers that 384 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: time of year. Grucing also testified that a tranquilizer gun 385 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: and darts were found in Morphu's garage. When he asked 386 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 1: more a few about it, Grucing said, morph you told 387 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 1: him he shot deer from a breezeway of his house 388 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 1: in order to cut off their antlers. Under Sheriff Rory 389 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,959 Speaker 1: testified that no cut off deer antlers were ever found 390 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: in Morphu's house. Man, I hope he just keeps talking 391 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: mac to Mike King, host of Profiling Evil on YouTube, 392 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: Mike King, he just like blah blah blah, and I 393 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: just of it because here he goes the wrong direction. 394 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 1: His GPS shows us that in his vehicle, instead of 395 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: going where he says he's going, he goes the other way, 396 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: claiming he was following alone elk to determine when it's 397 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: antlers we're going to fall off. I don't know about you, 398 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: but it would take a lot if I'm on my 399 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: way to work, to get me to detour somewhere else 400 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:29,679 Speaker 1: if I have to be at work. But I'm curious 401 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 1: when they find the tranquilizer gun and darts some of 402 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 1: it in the dryer when they get there, he explains 403 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: it by saying he shot a deer from the breezeway 404 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: of his home to cut off their antler. But then 405 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: we can't find the antler, So what happened to them? Okay, Mike, 406 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: Mike King joining us, what do you know? Well, here, 407 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 1: here's the first thing that bothers me is the time 408 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 1: of day. If sunrise is about at five fifty, so 409 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: at five am or a little b before that, it's 410 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: still pretty darn and dark. So to make that turn 411 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: is interesting. But the thing that's most interesting to me 412 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,880 Speaker 1: is that down the road to the left, to the 413 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: west where he turns is where Suzanne's helmet is found. 414 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: So that's a big, big coincidence. If he's chased right 415 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: asked him, place him right there where her helmet was found. Well, 416 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: the helmet was found less than a mile to the 417 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: west of where he turns, so he would be going 418 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,959 Speaker 1: very close to that very area where the helmet's discovered, 419 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 1: and the helmet, I'm curious. I'm curious. Do we know 420 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: how long he was there? Time for him to get 421 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 1: out of the car and walk to place the helmet 422 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 1: and come back. You know what, I don't think he 423 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: would have to place the helmet. Nancy was about ten 424 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: yards off the road, so just driving before he makes 425 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,439 Speaker 1: his U turn to head back, he could toss that 426 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: out the window and that's where that would end up 427 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 1: lying it was a turquoise helmet, goes right by where 428 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: the helmet was was, Yeah, and then he turns around 429 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 1: and heads back. So the question about whether they're elkred 430 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: I guess it got away. Oh, it sounds like the 431 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: elk got away, but the interest elk it could still 432 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: be holding onto antlers, So that that's a possibility in 433 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: early April, but not a probability. But the bottom line 434 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: is we never saw the antlers. That's a lie. Well, 435 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 1: or do we know whether he found the elk again? 436 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 1: Bottom line is he turns west when he was supposed 437 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: to turn east. Well, I no, there's an elk and 438 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: a deer. The deer he shot from the breezeway, remember, 439 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: and climb. That's why he used his dark gun. But 440 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: where are they the antlers he climbs, he got and 441 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: also then there was the elk he was chasing. Are 442 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: there two different animals, two different animals and two different processes. 443 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: If he if he's shooting the deer and cutting the 444 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: antler off, there's no question there should be evidence of 445 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,360 Speaker 1: an antler that's been cut off, which, by the way, 446 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: is against the law to shoot the deer and cut 447 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 1: its antlers off. Second is if he's looking for sheds 448 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: where the antler falls off on its own, just chasing 449 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 1: that elk is not going to get him that lucky 450 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: bullet that it's going to drop off its head wallets 451 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: running away. So that's kind of a wacky pot. Now 452 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 1: you mentioned something interesting. I remember the first time and 453 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: we went back out there recently, jack with the children 454 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,959 Speaker 1: in the RV Good Times to Jackson Hall and they 455 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: have a huge aren't made from antlers, And the first 456 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: time I saw him like, isn't this illegal, I'm not 457 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: going to get a picture near that, and they went, no, 458 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: they shed them at a certain time of year. That's 459 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: the first time I knew that way back when. So 460 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: you're right dart gunning them and cutting off their antlers 461 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,439 Speaker 1: is illegal. Plus, we can't find the antlers, So to you, 462 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute at 463 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: Coldcase Crimes dot org, jump in, we got a lot 464 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: of evidence. Nancy. Again, why would the dart be in 465 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,880 Speaker 1: the dryer? Nothing he has done has made sense. He's 466 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: at a hotel room that smells like chlorox. He you know, 467 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: he's the first one to entertain that a cougar got her, 468 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 1: and that makes no sense to anybody that lives in 469 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 1: that area. Again, if that had happened, it's the whole 470 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 1: wildlife kingdom. You've got you now you got a cougar. 471 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:18,880 Speaker 1: The whole wildlife exact was conspiring against Barry Marphy deleted 472 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: text messages. He's done all these things and none of 473 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: it makes any sense. But one thing I want to 474 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: point out. He knew that his wife was having an affair. 475 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: When she shows up missing, he does not tell police 476 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 1: about the other guy. He doesn't tell them, Hey, she's 477 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: been having an affair with the guy and she's gone 478 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: out of town several times. Check with him. Maybe he 479 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: did something to her. He doesn't mention that guy at all. Oh, 480 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: that's a really good. That's a really good thought. Why 481 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: didn't he because he knew that guy didn't get her. Guys, 482 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 1: we are talking about the evidence is it is unfolding 483 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: in a preliminary hearing courtroom, which I had visa state 484 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: against because you show the other side all your evidence. 485 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: I've always said they should have just convened a grand 486 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: jury and indicted him if they had the evidence, why 487 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: show your cards. But they did it, and in a 488 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: way I'm glad they did, because I'm finding out a 489 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: lot about it. You just heard Cheryl McCollum refer back 490 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: to that hotel room. Now, isn't it true? Back to you, 491 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: Mike King, host of Profiling Evil on YouTube, that the 492 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: morning that his wife goes missing, it's Mother's day. He 493 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: gets up, according to him, early early, still dark outside, 494 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,959 Speaker 1: and leaves for a job that's later been disproved there 495 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: wasn't really a job. It's building a retainer wall that 496 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: he had built before. In it I guess had cracks 497 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: in it or needed to be redone. We now find 498 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: out he was hastily putting together a crew that morning 499 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: in the car in his vehicle on the way to 500 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: the out of town job. But he goes to a hotel. 501 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: He goes to a hotel. Take a listen to our 502 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: cut ninety six din verse seven. Also in court, attorneys 503 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: spoke about the inside of Morphu's hotel room the day 504 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: Susanne went missing. CBI didn't swab the hotel room for 505 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: Susanne's DNA. Morphe employees who were in Brufield on the 506 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: day Susanne was reported missing, saw that there was wet 507 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: towels in the bathroom and an intense chlorine odor. The 508 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 1: state suggested because of COVID the pool wouldn't be open. 509 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: The defense pointed out, the manager of the hotel send 510 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: an email stating the room morph you had stayed in 511 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: is above the pool and still smelt like chlorine four 512 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: months later. Wow, it's still stuck of chlorine four months later, 513 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: jofs goot Morgan, it didn't come from the pool. Now 514 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: we know they didn't swab the room for DNA. I 515 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: doubt pretty seriously he had Susanne Morphy's body in that 516 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: hotel room. So I don't know what we've lost from 517 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: that still have been swabbed, But just got why intense chlorine? 518 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: What would that do? Well? Most people think, you know 519 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: it's bleach. Most people think that it's going to be 520 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: a successful cleaning agent. And my suspicion is, my suspicion 521 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: is that he's attempting to clean up blood. I don't know, 522 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: you know, I hear hoofbeats. I think horses most of 523 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,719 Speaker 1: the time, and so when I hear this, That's what 524 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: I'm thinking. And you know, the police still after all 525 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: that time, I don't know if they've held onto that room, 526 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: if they've closed it down. It's still possible in many 527 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: of these cases to go back and use some kind 528 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: of luminescing agent in there, like blue star or luminol. 529 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 1: And you know, when when we're developing, people say, you know, 530 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: you need to take on your vitamins, take on iron. 531 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: One of the things that happens is that the luminol 532 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: it actually interacts with iron in our heboglobe. So that 533 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: gives you an indication, and bleach is not always the answer. 534 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: You'll leave someone behind that what it can do. It 535 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 1: can affect the DNA that's there, but you can get 536 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: an indication that there was a blood swatch there, so 537 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: maybe there's a potential they could go back and check 538 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 1: that out again. I don't know. I hope that they 539 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: hope it takes more than Blaze to get rid of DNA. 540 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: You're gonna need something like the Blaze Swan. Excuse me, 541 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: black swan. Guys, not only that. Take a listen to 542 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: what else we learn in the preliminary hearing hearing. Take 543 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: a listen to Jason Greenauer dan verse seven. During this 544 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: preliminary hearing, a retired FBI agent testified that in March 545 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: of this year, Barrymore fh you asked him, can you 546 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: give me immunity if I sit and just open my 547 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 1: life to you. Barrymorephew is charged with the murder of 548 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: his wife, Suzanne, who went missing on Mother's Day twenty twenty. 549 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: Now this is the preliminary hearing to determine if there's 550 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: enough evidence to move this case to a trial. Now 551 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 1: that FBI agent Johnny Grusing said he believed that Barry 552 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: was trying to make a deal with any information that 553 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 1: he had. We also learned today that Barrymore, if you 554 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 1: immediately told a coworker when his wife went miss that 555 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: it's got to be a mountain lion or cougar that 556 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: had killed her. The defense spent time poking holes in 557 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: prosecution arguments surrounding the cap of a tranquilizer dart that 558 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: was found in the Morphew home and the hotel room 559 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: that Bury had stayed in during a work trip that 560 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:32,479 Speaker 1: had allegedly smelled of chlorine. Crime stories with Nancy Grace 561 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: out to you. Question on this, Wendy Patrick, why would 562 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: someone just walk up and go if I tell you everything, 563 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 1: when you give me immunity, I wouldn't. Why if your 564 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: wife is missing and you have nothing to do with it, 565 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: why would you want immunity. I mean I always used 566 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 1: to Mark class whose daughter Polly went missing, house kidnapped 567 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: from her own home during a sleepover, and raped and murdered. 568 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 1: When cops came to his place, he went, sure, take 569 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: my DNA, take my fingerprints, check my place, check my car, 570 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,799 Speaker 1: do whatever you have to do to start finding who 571 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,959 Speaker 1: took Polly. That's the goal standard right there. He didn't 572 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 1: walk up and go, well, I'll tell you whatever I 573 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 1: know if you gave me immunity. Oh hbl No, he 574 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 1: did not. That just strikes me wrong right there. Yeah, 575 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 1: And that's a huge piece of evidence, Nancy, And you 576 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,360 Speaker 1: know we pair that with the forensics or maybe I 577 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 1: should say the lack of forensics first. I think Joe 578 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: Scott's next book should be Blood Beneath My Nails instead 579 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 1: of Believe My Feet. But let's pair that, Nancy, with 580 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: what you just said, so asking for immunity if you talk, 581 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 1: we have to pair that with the fact that we 582 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: probably need what we call a negative evidence expert, and 583 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 1: you probably use that in a case like this. It 584 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 1: wouldn't be a wildlife expert. It would be a why 585 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 1: you wouldn't expect to find certain types of forensic evidence 586 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 1: because of the cover up being part of the crime. 587 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: So when you pair that with the request to have immunity, 588 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:06,239 Speaker 1: if you speak, that is the exact same type of 589 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 1: thing that the rest of the evidence points you, which 590 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,359 Speaker 1: is the cover up aspect of it. So absolutely that's 591 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,239 Speaker 1: a huge piece of evidence, even though ironically it's a 592 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: non statement being used as a powerful piece of evidence here. 593 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: I mean it speaks to me, Cheryl McCollum that while 594 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: his wife is missing dead, he approaches law enforcement or 595 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 1: approaches someone and says, hey, if I tell you everything, 596 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,279 Speaker 1: where you give me immunity, I would be lying on 597 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:42,399 Speaker 1: the police steps begging them to do anything. I'll take 598 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: a polygraph. Here's my DNA. Just do help me find David, 599 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:53,760 Speaker 1: my husband. And that's not what he was doing. Well, Nancy, 600 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 1: you and I often talk about Elizabeth Smart's father and 601 00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: all his brothers. That's what they did immediately. In this guy, 602 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:05,319 Speaker 1: he goes around a different locations throwing things away, like 603 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 1: camouflage closing. Oh yes, thank you for mentioning that. Mike King, 604 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 1: let's talk about him throwing things a white tell me 605 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,319 Speaker 1: about it. Well. The evidence in court was that he 606 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 1: goes to five different dumpsters. Now, in some of the discussion, 607 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: he says he identifies three of them, but he leaves 608 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 1: out I think the bus stop and the men's warehouse 609 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,319 Speaker 1: dumpster that he goes to. But the thing I find 610 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 1: interesting is he not only goes to the dumpster with 611 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 1: large bags that apparently he's cleaning out his truck with, 612 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 1: but he forces those down into the bottom of the 613 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 1: can with his hands. And I don't know about you, 614 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: but when I go to the dumpster and throw stuff 615 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:40,920 Speaker 1: in the dumps, the last thing I want to do 616 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 1: is get my hands down in there and push a 617 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: little deeper. I was just talking about that the other day. Who, 618 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,839 Speaker 1: especially in times of COVID, but ever will go up 619 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 1: to a dumpster like behind a restaurant or behind the 620 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 1: grocery store and push the trash dawn with your hands? 621 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: Who who barrymore? Few? Did it? Let me ask you 622 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,880 Speaker 1: this to Cheryl McCollum, What do we know about the 623 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,840 Speaker 1: timing of all his dumpster trips? You know, it's amazing 624 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,440 Speaker 1: how many husbands turn into neat Nick's overnight when their 625 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: wives go missing. You know whatever, Scott Peterson, Yeah, he 626 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 1: reminds me of missing Connecticut mom of five Jennifer Duelos, 627 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,200 Speaker 1: her husband Phoonus Dulos, and his love or his mistress. 628 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,400 Speaker 1: They go all over town and they're caught on camera 629 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:40,839 Speaker 1: throwing bloody clothes, bloody rags away. When is his When 630 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: is his cleaning craze? How is it timed with her disappearance? Cheryl? 631 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: I believe that it's happening while he's at the motel 632 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,719 Speaker 1: before he comes back home. Is it, Mike King? When 633 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 1: is he cleaning up? Yeah? So the interesting thing is 634 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: he goes to broomfield work on this wall, but he 635 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: really only spends about fifteen minutes there from what came 636 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,320 Speaker 1: out in court, But he spends about five hours in 637 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 1: the hotel, going in and out to the dumpster. He 638 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: acknowledges that he knows their surveillance cameras, so why on 639 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: earth would I be getting rid of evidence? But then 640 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 1: he goes to some alternate locations, so that I think 641 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 1: the big question becomes why five hours in the hotel 642 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 1: and fifteen minutes on the job site. So that day 643 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 1: when she is out riding her bike, he is going 644 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,799 Speaker 1: to how many dumpsters to get rid of evidence? Well, 645 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:37,879 Speaker 1: testimony is five? Okay, all right. You and I may 646 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 1: disagree on something, and that is the possibility that triangulation 647 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:54,560 Speaker 1: shows that barrymoreph You chased his wife, Susanne Morphe through 648 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 1: the home, shot her with a dark gun, and then 649 00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,759 Speaker 1: got rid of her body. I also want to talk 650 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 1: to you, Mike King, about evidence that the bedroom door 651 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 1: where she would have gone had been rammed open. There 652 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,440 Speaker 1: was evidence of battering on that door that did not 653 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,799 Speaker 1: exist when they bought the home. But first let's talk 654 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 1: about triangulation. Why are you so convinced, Mike King that, 655 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 1: contrary to what law enforcement says, triangulation does not show 656 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 1: he chased her around the home. Yeah. I think it's 657 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,280 Speaker 1: the difference between emotion and science, and we've been studying 658 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,640 Speaker 1: what cell phones do for a long time in the 659 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,560 Speaker 1: nine one industry and in law enforcement. Bottom line is, 660 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: if you look at the phone and you set it 661 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 1: on a single location, it's going to move around on 662 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,399 Speaker 1: the map, showing that it almost will look like they're 663 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 1: going through walls and going at forty five miles an hour, 664 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 1: like the defense has claimed. Doesn't mean that they weren't 665 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,719 Speaker 1: still in that location, doesn't mean that it would make 666 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,759 Speaker 1: good sense that he could be chasing someone or other 667 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 1: things could happen. But the science is hard to refute, 668 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 1: and that is that there's drift, especially if the device, 669 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,920 Speaker 1: the phone is using triangulation off of three different cell 670 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,439 Speaker 1: towers to determine where it is. We know that this 671 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 1: area of the state has poor cellular reception, and they 672 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,680 Speaker 1: talk about it over and again in this case, so 673 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 1: that's going to add to the problem. It improves if 674 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,320 Speaker 1: the home has Wi Fi and the device is also 675 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 1: using Wi Fi, then it gets a lot tighter and 676 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,360 Speaker 1: it gets a lot more accurate. But the science is 677 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,879 Speaker 1: pretty hard to refute. It's going to move if it's 678 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 1: up based on triangulation. What if the home did have 679 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,240 Speaker 1: Wi Fi. Would that change your opinion? It get tighter, 680 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 1: It could get down to maybe ten meters or twenty 681 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,680 Speaker 1: thirty feet in some cases, it can get really pretty 682 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,919 Speaker 1: darn accurate. When I look at mine on my home, 683 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,799 Speaker 1: it shows my office in the northeast corner of my 684 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,320 Speaker 1: home all the time. But if I leave the phone 685 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,040 Speaker 1: sitting there and I turn off Wi Fi, it starts 686 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 1: bouncing like crazy and goes up to four or five 687 00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 1: hundred yards away. So you're saying, we cannot depend on 688 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,160 Speaker 1: reangulation in your opinion, to show she was being chased 689 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 1: in the home. No, it's just one more piece of 690 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: the puzzle though, And so you've got to look at 691 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,320 Speaker 1: the fact that there's there's impact on the door. Is 692 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 1: that accurate the dart gun? Is the dart gun actually working? 693 00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,080 Speaker 1: And we've never heard any testimony that someone went out 694 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,320 Speaker 1: and test fired that darn thing. So that doesn't change 695 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,680 Speaker 1: the fact that the dart itself could be manually. Why 696 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,480 Speaker 1: would it be in as dryer, Well, lots of the 697 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,880 Speaker 1: main questions around that, yeah, and hard to refute those. Again, 698 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 1: that's the difference between coincidence and circumstantial. To me, is 699 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 1: that doesn't make sense but I think you can still 700 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,680 Speaker 1: paint a really strong picture of what's going on in 701 00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 1: the home from a circumstantial case. But wife or that 702 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:48,080 Speaker 1: cellular movement alone should not be evidence alone. Why Joe 703 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:49,920 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, what do you think of the evidence as 704 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,160 Speaker 1: we are presenting it today. Well, you know, I think 705 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,799 Speaker 1: that a lot of his evidence of exclusion to a 706 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,279 Speaker 1: great degree. I don't know how how tightly. Of course, 707 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,640 Speaker 1: Mike would be able to speak to this information a 708 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:05,080 Speaker 1: bit better than I. But one thing I'd like to 709 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 1: kind of address and take a step back on is 710 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,840 Speaker 1: this idea of this fabricated stories put forth relative to 711 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 1: the big cat attack. You know, her riding down the 712 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 1: road and her bicycle and then all of a sudden, 713 00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:20,719 Speaker 1: a big cat attacks her. I have personally not worked 714 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,360 Speaker 1: these kinds of cases, but I do have friends out west, 715 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:27,560 Speaker 1: one forensic odentologist, a bite mark expert in particular, that 716 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,399 Speaker 1: has worked several And cats don't attack like this. They 717 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,799 Speaker 1: generally weigh up on ledges and they wait for their 718 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:36,960 Speaker 1: prey to pass. And one of the things that happens 719 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,799 Speaker 1: Nancy and I've seen the crime scene images from these 720 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,440 Speaker 1: and they are just absolutely horrible. They attack and they 721 00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,520 Speaker 1: grabbed the victim by the back of the neck and 722 00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,719 Speaker 1: they kind of sling them around until they break the neck, 723 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,560 Speaker 1: and then they drag them back to a layer where 724 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,279 Speaker 1: they'll actually keep them and eat on the body. I'm 725 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,399 Speaker 1: sorry to have to say that, but that's what it does. 726 00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,880 Speaker 1: It leaves behind a specific trail of not just blood, 727 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,560 Speaker 1: but you have drag marks that are associated with this 728 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,239 Speaker 1: percent would have been all over that place. So I 729 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,080 Speaker 1: think that this story that he s put forth relative 730 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,000 Speaker 1: to this can completely be discounted. And there are people 731 00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,080 Speaker 1: out west that track these cats and it would be nothing. 732 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,000 Speaker 1: You could easily pick up the phone and call on 733 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,200 Speaker 1: these people and ask them for their expert opinion about this, 734 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,080 Speaker 1: and they're going to come up with zilchy because you 735 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,960 Speaker 1: know why it didn't happen. Yeah, and I want to 736 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,800 Speaker 1: just I want to pile on if I can, Nancy Jeffan, 737 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,480 Speaker 1: I live in a mountain lion territory, and this is 738 00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,400 Speaker 1: exactly right. It would look like they walked into a 739 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,839 Speaker 1: propeller if a mountain lion took that person down, and 740 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,320 Speaker 1: there would be so many artifacts on the ground, including 741 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,320 Speaker 1: a cat is not going to pick up one hundred 742 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,759 Speaker 1: and twenty pound individual and drag them and not leave 743 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,680 Speaker 1: drag market. And a mountain lion is only going to 744 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:56,720 Speaker 1: go about a hundred yards maximum usually downhill to hide 745 00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,240 Speaker 1: and bury that cash so that they can go back. 746 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,719 Speaker 1: So all of that is just hogwash. We brought on 747 00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,920 Speaker 1: the Mountain Lion Foundation, folks to just kind of reaffirm it. 748 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,600 Speaker 1: And boy, I'm one hundred percent behind you on that comment, 749 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:14,560 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, Wrap it up, Nancy, priorities. When somebody goes 750 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:18,840 Speaker 1: missing or a loved one dies, people prioritize what is 751 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,319 Speaker 1: the most important thing in their life. And they start saying, 752 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:24,200 Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to spend more time with the kids, 753 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:28,440 Speaker 1: I'm gonna spend less time at work. This guy immediately 754 00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,200 Speaker 1: gets the judge to give him guardianship over her stuff 755 00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:35,120 Speaker 1: so he can sell some property in Indiana that became 756 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,160 Speaker 1: a priority. The other thing that was a priority he 757 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:42,360 Speaker 1: voted under her name. You know, it's interesting, cheryln I 758 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,279 Speaker 1: know I project a lot, but I remember when my 759 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:50,399 Speaker 1: fiancee was murdered. I couldn't eat, lost down to eighty 760 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:57,840 Speaker 1: nine pounds, I dropped out of school, I couldn't stand 761 00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,680 Speaker 1: to hear music, I couldn't stand here, the TV, your radio, 762 00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:09,520 Speaker 1: because nothing mattered anymore. And I project that onto other people, 763 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,120 Speaker 1: which may or may not be fair, but I know 764 00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:17,320 Speaker 1: one thing. The last thing on my mind was what's 765 00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:22,440 Speaker 1: going to happen to his belongings and any legalities, And 766 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,040 Speaker 1: not knowing where she was, I thought that there was 767 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:32,840 Speaker 1: a chance she could be found. We waked as justice unfalls. 768 00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,640 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace crime Story, signing off goodbye friend,