Speaker 1: Cold Zone Media.
Speaker 2: Say Your Excusing.
Speaker 3: Sixty six six Welcome back to sixteenth Minute, the podcast
Speaker 3: where we take a look at the internet's characters of
Speaker 3: the day to see how their moment affected them and
Speaker 3: what that says about us and the Internet. I'm your host,
Speaker 3: Jamie Loftus, and today we are continuing to talk about
Speaker 3: Hailey Welch, the Hawk to a Girl, well kind of.
Speaker 3: When we left off, we were talking about the style
Speaker 3: of content that launched Haley to prominence, in her case,
Speaker 3: a channel called Tim and d TV that posted clips
Speaker 3: across TikTok, YouTube and Instagram. And when I saw the
Speaker 3: formula that made their videos popular, it felt kind of
Speaker 3: familiar to me. Quickly edited footage of drunk women saying dirty,
Speaker 3: silly shit outside of bars, while the men who ran
Speaker 3: the show with basically no charisma egged them on to
Speaker 3: say more. It reminded me of something, but I couldn't
Speaker 3: quite put my finger on what this is. A couple
Speaker 3: weeks ago, and then one day, as I was walking
Speaker 3: through an outdoor mall to cure my depression, I heard
Speaker 3: the distant sound of a steel drum and then it
Speaker 3: came to me. My nipples hardened in fear not the
Speaker 3: fun way. I knew what these surveillance TikTok channels reminded
Speaker 3: me of Girls Gone Wild, Yes, the Girls Gone Wild
Speaker 3: home video craze of the nineties and two thousands, videos
Speaker 3: of young attractive women, usually drunk and of even more
Speaker 3: dubious consent than the TikTok exploitation videos we see now.
Speaker 3: The tapes were pioneered by a bag of shit reality
Speaker 3: pioneer by the name of Joe Francis, who occasionally appeared
Speaker 3: on the tapes goading normal women into flashing their boobs
Speaker 3: to the tune of millions of dollars. They were unbelievably popular,
Speaker 3: but these tapes legacies weren't examined in detail until recently
Speaker 3: by an amazing jost. I have a strong parasocial relationship
Speaker 3: with named Scotchy Cole that began streaming on Peacock in
Speaker 3: December twenty twenty four. And this docuseries isn't just a
Speaker 3: damning profile of Joe Francis, who, by the way, is
Speaker 3: a fugitive living in a Mexican villa after a series
Speaker 3: of lawsuits that include child abuse for filming and profiting
Speaker 3: from the exposed breasts of underage girls, bracketeering, false.
Speaker 4: Imprisonment of women in his home.
Speaker 5: The list gets worse and worse.
Speaker 3: The docuseries is a look into how the girls and
Speaker 3: women who appeared in Girls Gone Wild were treated in
Speaker 3: the moment and after their appearance was made public. This
Speaker 3: series was surveillance an exploitation at its finest, only this
Speaker 3: wasn't the proto reality hidden camera surveillance. The appeal of
Speaker 3: Girls Gone Wild was how normal these girls were, how
Speaker 3: vulnerable they seemed, and how as they were flashing you
Speaker 3: they were looking right into the camera. And because these
Speaker 3: were distributed by ordering VHS tapes over the phone, they
Speaker 3: weren't regulated like normal TV would be, and weren't beholden
Speaker 3: to Internet terms of service. And apparently at the time,
Speaker 3: no one really cared about the level of consent that
Speaker 3: the women who appeared in the tapes had provided them.
Speaker 3: And don't even get me started on the Hurricane Katrina
Speaker 3: fundraising tape from Girls Gone Wild featuring old clips from
Speaker 3: exploited women in New Orleans, hosted by Snoop Dogg.
Speaker 5: A real sentence.
Speaker 6: Warning, this video contains explicit material not suitable for children.
Speaker 6: If you think Girls Going Wild with Wild before just
Speaker 6: waited you see what these girls do when Snoop Dogg
Speaker 6: is unleashed and takes control of the camera. It's not
Speaker 6: sold in stores and can't be shown on TV. So
Speaker 6: call now and get the all new Girls Gone Wild
Speaker 6: Doggy Styles hosted by Snoop Dogg, Yours on video or
Speaker 6: GBD for just nine ninety nine.
Speaker 3: I highly recommend the Peacock docu series, whose reveals about
Speaker 3: Girls Gone Wild include the dubious or complete lack of
Speaker 3: consent of the participants, the many underage girls whose bodies
Speaker 3: were exploited for the sake of video sales, first hand
Speaker 3: accounts of young women whose lives were damaged or destroyed
Speaker 3: by their appearance on the tapes, some of whom didn't
Speaker 3: even remember being filmed after being plied with alcohol from
Speaker 3: Girls Gone Wild producers, and some who were coerced into
Speaker 3: performing hardcore sex acts while not sober without proper compensation.
Speaker 3: This is not an anti sex work sentiment. These women
Speaker 3: were taken advantage of and had little to no agency
Speaker 3: as to what appeared in the final product. Nearly thirty
Speaker 3: years later, we can pretty easily understand it to be
Speaker 3: a horrific operation, but not before it had a tremendously
Speaker 3: big influence on Internet content. Girls Gone Wild began distribution
Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety seven, just shy of when the Internet
Speaker 3: became accessible in the mainstream, but you can feel its
Speaker 3: presence in the hawk Tua style content we're still getting today.
Speaker 4: What's one move in bed that makes a man go crazy?
Speaker 5: Every time? Oh, you gotta give him that hawk dude
Speaker 5: spit on that night.
Speaker 3: Of course, there are stylistic changes. Joe Francis wasn't splicing
Speaker 3: lazy meme videos between clips of drunk women he presented
Speaker 3: as eagerly consenting, and it's important to note that in
Speaker 3: Tim and D's maybe defense that the women in their
Speaker 3: videos are fully clothed because they have to comply with
Speaker 3: the rules of the platforms they're beholden to. And so
Speaker 3: I actually agree with The New York Times when they
Speaker 3: say that their content is sort of a gen Zhig
Speaker 3: thirteen version of Girls Gone Wild. It's a concept they've
Speaker 3: grown up familiar with, though they would have actually been
Speaker 3: too young or not alive enough to buy the VHS
Speaker 3: tapes themselves, but the format was normalized and replicated through
Speaker 3: subsequent popular mediums, and that format includes the payment structure
Speaker 3: of the subjects. Girls Gone Wild would get paid in
Speaker 3: T shirts, petty cash, or hats. And while I cannot
Speaker 3: certify this, nothing about Tim and D's workflow as they
Speaker 3: proudly describe it in their quote unquote tell all YouTube
Speaker 3: video the Hawk Truth sounds any better. In fact, their
Speaker 3: system might be worse. It doesn't sound like Chelsea Bradford
Speaker 3: or Haley Welch ever got the T shirts that the
Speaker 3: guys were printing with Haley's face on them. And while
Speaker 3: sure Tim and D did appear to get verbal consent
Speaker 3: from their subjects on camera, the issues of both the
Speaker 3: possibility of consent due to intoxication and the fact that
Speaker 3: they aren't checking the ages of the people they're talking to.
Speaker 5: It's not ethical, period.
Speaker 3: A long way of saying, I don't feel bad for
Speaker 3: Tim and D for not getting the credit that they
Speaker 3: felt they deserved, And upon watching most of Haley's immediate
Speaker 3: post hak Tua interviews, mostly on other video podcasts, I
Speaker 3: think she was appropriately dismissive of the men who felt
Speaker 3: they should be getting a cut of her likeness and words.
Speaker 3: Of course, there are plenty of other stereotypes that were
Speaker 3: applied to Haley that made this moment possible. The algorithm
Speaker 3: always boosts young white women. The hypersexualization of ordinary women
Speaker 3: was well established, as was stereotyping Southern accents as uneducated,
Speaker 3: as was stereotyping women who admitted to enjoying sex as
Speaker 3: objects of ridicule.
Speaker 5: Or slut shaming.
Speaker 3: But one of the few advantages of coming to prominence
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four was that with the right assistance,
Speaker 3: Hailey had a shot at seizing her own narrative for
Speaker 3: a while anyway. And so to round this first part
Speaker 3: of the Talk to a series out, as Hailey Welch
Speaker 3: hard launched herself into pop culture and introduced the version
Speaker 3: of herself that would be available to the public, I
Speaker 3: wanted to talk to someone who's been through this kind
Speaker 3: of process only twenty years earlier, my friend and top
Speaker 3: tier podcaster Courtney Kochak. When we come back, Welcome back
Speaker 3: to sixteenth minute. Since I started writing this episode, we
Speaker 3: had to evacuate our home due to the city burning down,
Speaker 3: and we are continuing to dig deeper into the lore
Speaker 3: of Hailey Welch, the Hawk to a Girl. By now,
Speaker 3: I hope it's clear to you that how one views
Speaker 3: Hailey Welch and the Hawk to a phenomenon in general,
Speaker 3: has a lot to do with who you are and
Speaker 3: what your experiences are, something that only becomes clearer as
Speaker 3: Haley's image is politicized, warped, and exploited for money as
Speaker 3: the months wear on, as we'll talk about next week.
Speaker 3: And while I think the result of all of this
Speaker 3: is still pretty bleak for her, I have noticed and
Speaker 3: honestly kind of agree with a number of people who
Speaker 3: have been put through a similar exploitation ringer in years past,
Speaker 3: who were actually heartened to see that Haley was able
Speaker 3: to rest control of her image back from the guys
Speaker 3: who had posted her without her proper consent. But I
Speaker 3: wanted to understand that viewpoint better, so I called up
Speaker 3: Courtney Kochak, the incredible host of shows like Private Parts.
Speaker 5: Unknown And maybe you didn't know, because I didn't. She
Speaker 5: worked for Girls Gone Wild in the mid two thousands,
Speaker 5: and she has some thoughts. Here's our talk. I mean,
Speaker 5: this is a story that is obviously very entrenched in
Speaker 5: the Internet, but I feel like it has all of
Speaker 5: these dynamics that far pre date the Internet.
Speaker 4: So I went to college for acting and was like
Speaker 4: kind of be an actor, and so I went out
Speaker 4: to LA and I, you know, I'm from like a
Speaker 4: small town in Minnesota, so like I for whatever, I
Speaker 4: had no idea, Like I thought, you know, I had
Speaker 4: prepared myself in these certain ways, like I did a
Speaker 4: BFA program and like scoured the Internet and was like
Speaker 4: unmodeled Mayhem and was like doing all the things that
Speaker 4: I thought that I could do. But I was still
Speaker 4: so naive and so sheltered. So when I got to LA,
Speaker 4: I didn't have any money. I had like two hundred dollars.
Speaker 4: I mean seriously, I was staying with a friend in
Speaker 4: Van Eyes, so I had no way to pursue what
Speaker 4: I was here to pursue. Really, I did the Girls
Speaker 4: Gone Wild tour in two thousand and five, and I
Speaker 4: was twenty one. I was working this shit job in
Speaker 4: the Inland in it was promoting Staples. So I was
Speaker 4: going like business to business in the heat of the
Speaker 4: Inland empires. Yeah, do you want the easy button for
Speaker 4: your business? Like handing out free shit? It was horrible.
Speaker 4: That was you know the context of me searching on
Speaker 4: Craigslist on my friend's futan, like trying to find another
Speaker 4: job to get out of that Hell, and I saw
Speaker 4: like do you want to travel for Girls Gone Wild?
Speaker 4: Like do you want to go on the tour? Do
Speaker 4: you want to be the merch girl? And I was like, oh,
Speaker 4: this solves my problems, Like I don't have a permanent home.
Speaker 4: I'm kind of like overstaying my welcome on my friend's couch.
Speaker 4: I you know, I need money. I submitted for that
Speaker 4: Craigslist ad and it was literally like the next day.
Speaker 4: I was at work in the Inland Empire and I
Speaker 4: faked that I was sick and I went to meet
Speaker 4: with them at their offices in Santa Monica. They had
Speaker 4: this office building.
Speaker 5: What did you think when you thought Girls Gone Wild?
Speaker 5: What was your stance on it at the time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I had never seen an actual video, you know,
Speaker 4: like I'd never seen their product, but the infomercials were ubiquitous,
Speaker 4: like that was and they were fun to watch, right.
Speaker 4: It was like steel drum music, right, And it was like, yeah,
Speaker 4: these little pop up sensors. It looked like a party.
Speaker 4: It looked like what they were selling was a fun party,
Speaker 4: and like, yeah, girls flash and like, of course they're
Speaker 4: cool and it's fun, you know, That's what I thought. Yeah,
Speaker 4: so I had no fucking idea. You know, do the interview,
Speaker 4: and I think it's going to solve all my problems
Speaker 4: because it's I'm not going to have to find this
Speaker 4: place to live. I will have money. I had to
Speaker 4: look up my tax return and I made I think
Speaker 4: I made fifty dollars a day is what I made.
Speaker 4: I was on the tour for like seven been weeks,
Speaker 4: and so when you'd like do the math off of
Speaker 4: what I made, it was forty six dollars. Anyway, I
Speaker 4: get on the flight, I go do the interview. They
Speaker 4: basically tell me at the interview, like your job is
Speaker 4: to make the girls feel comfortable. What they sort of
Speaker 4: didn't say is like enough to be exploited, you know.
Speaker 4: I you know, And I hadn't seen the video, so
Speaker 4: I didn't know exactly, but I could get the vibe.
Speaker 4: But I was like, yeah, I'm cool, I'm fun. I
Speaker 4: want to be hot enough to do that, you know,
Speaker 4: like totally.
Speaker 5: I mean I think that it's like this weird Oh
Speaker 5: I've been entrusted with, Like yeah, I've been hired as
Speaker 5: a girl's girl.
Speaker 4: And the guy that I met with he had had
Speaker 4: Hollywood kind of experiences. But it seemed adjacent to what
Speaker 4: I wanted to do, so I was like I could
Speaker 4: kind of kid myself into feeling like it was like
Speaker 4: sort of like the entertainment industry. And yeah, I left
Speaker 4: like literally the next day, went to Vancouver, and and
Speaker 4: then obviously we didn't have work permits in Canada. We
Speaker 4: were in Canada like half the time I was on
Speaker 4: the tour. It was two thousand and five, so Joe
Speaker 4: was starting to have legal problems at this point. And
Speaker 4: I never met him, but he definitely loomed large. He'd
Speaker 4: already i think, been on People magazine, and when we
Speaker 4: went to bars and stuff, it's like people knew about
Speaker 4: about him and like wanted to meet him. And then
Speaker 4: we were traveling in this garish branded bus that just
Speaker 4: said like girls Gone Wild. When we started doing the
Speaker 4: club events, I was like, Oh, this is kind of
Speaker 4: like a sham, Like we're not bringing the party at all.
Speaker 5: Really, what do you mean?
Speaker 4: If you saw the infomercials, you would think like we
Speaker 4: were going to roll up and there were going to
Speaker 4: be a bunch of girls, like we were going to
Speaker 4: bring the girls, you know, But it was just OK.
Speaker 4: I was the only girl, and I was like I
Speaker 4: just saw a picture of myself. I was a baby,
Speaker 4: Like I was a little like fat cheeked, little bib
Speaker 4: twenty one year old baby.
Speaker 5: And you were the only girls that they brought. Yes,
Speaker 5: So were they just relying on the like, hey, we're
Speaker 5: going to be in this spot at this time and
Speaker 5: just sort of had people come do the work for.
Speaker 4: Them basically, yeah, I mean you saw the documentary, so
Speaker 4: it's like that was their whole thing was that they
Speaker 4: didn't want urban girls either, like we sometimes were in cities,
Speaker 4: but we were trying to get out of the cities
Speaker 4: asap because cities, college towns. It's like they didn't want
Speaker 4: anybody that was kind of like hipped to what they
Speaker 4: were doing. They really wanted like a small town where
Speaker 4: people were naive.
Speaker 5: Like it would be more of an event versus and.
Speaker 4: Yes, and it would be more of an event. But
Speaker 4: they were also not like there weren't you know, a
Speaker 4: bunch of feminists to be like, hey, what the fuck's
Speaker 4: going on here?
Speaker 3: You know, right right?
Speaker 5: You don't have the counter protesters either.
Speaker 4: What they were doing is drawing the girls from the
Speaker 4: town that they could then shoot and have be the
Speaker 4: product that they were selling. Obviously, nobody got paid. I
Speaker 4: didn't see anyone get paid except one girl was a
Speaker 4: stripper and so she knew how to negotiate with them.
Speaker 4: She knew to ask for money, you know, she like
Speaker 4: had a little savvy about it. But nobody else got paid.
Speaker 5: Were their consent forms? Was there any like checking of
Speaker 5: people's ages? Like how did that side work?
Speaker 4: They had already gotten in trouble for this at this point.
Speaker 4: I think the age thing, you know, it was pretty specific,
Speaker 4: like the girl had to like hold up the ID
Speaker 4: and say on camera that she consented and signed the thing.
Speaker 4: Like there were like a few steps to the lockdown
Speaker 4: the consent form.
Speaker 5: So that's yeah. That's the other thing too, is like
Speaker 5: in retrospect, it's like, Okay, I think that honestly, getting
Speaker 5: a piece of paper is more than a lot of
Speaker 5: these on the street TikTokers do now. But it's also like,
Speaker 5: what is that piece of paper if you're got drunk
Speaker 5: when you sign it?
Speaker 4: I think they should be obviously, I don't know. It's
Speaker 4: like they are over eighteen. It's like technically, yes, it's
Speaker 4: a legal document, but to sign a thing where you're
Speaker 4: like giving permission to sell your body when you're drunk.
Speaker 4: I mean it should be illegal to ask someone to
Speaker 4: sign that document.
Speaker 5: I think on a normal night, while you're on this
Speaker 5: bus tour, what does it look.
Speaker 4: Like for you? Well, we did. We had so many issues,
Speaker 4: like getting dates canceled, so it's not like we were
Speaker 4: working every night, thank god. But like when we did
Speaker 4: have an event on our good club nights, I would
Speaker 4: be selling T shirts, which was kind of hard to do,
Speaker 4: or sometimes the T shirts were being given away, you know,
Speaker 4: to the girls, but yeah, that was my job. And
Speaker 4: then hanging out on the bus us, you know, pouring
Speaker 4: drinks and just like being a girl, which they told
Speaker 4: me would be the job, Like just to have you
Speaker 4: there is gonna make the other girls want to hang out.
Speaker 4: I wasn't like in the room when the naked stuff
Speaker 4: was happening, but I but I would see them. For me,
Speaker 4: the most fucked up part, I mean, this is really
Speaker 4: I don't know, we've never talked about this before, but
Speaker 4: like this is like a defining thing for me. When
Speaker 4: I was twenty and twenty one, it's like I got
Speaker 4: raped twice. I did Girls Gone Wild, and then when
Speaker 4: I was twenty three, I had an abortion and by
Speaker 4: the end, I was like, oh, I don't, I'm like
Speaker 4: a totally different person. What I was about to say
Speaker 4: is one of the things that really made me depressed
Speaker 4: when I was on this tour was like the whole
Speaker 4: vibe of it was like, we're rating women constantly on
Speaker 4: a scale from one to ten. We're scouting for these
Speaker 4: women to be in our scenes, even if we're like
Speaker 4: out at dinner or you know whatever. Just like twenty
Speaker 4: four to seven guy's got paid five hundred bucks or
Speaker 4: whatever for a scene if they could get a scene,
Speaker 4: which was it would be like a girl eating an
Speaker 4: out another girl, or playing with sex toys, or a
Speaker 4: scene is like, you know, like a porn scene.
Speaker 5: So the women doing this are signing consent forums and
Speaker 5: doing it for free or for merch But if you're
Speaker 5: a guy who could convince them to do it, yes,
Speaker 5: you make five hundred.
Speaker 4: Dollars, yes, or I don't know exactly the amount, like
Speaker 4: maybe it was like two hundred or something, you know,
Speaker 4: but yes, you were getting paid. You make money.
Speaker 5: What was it like sort of observing that and processing
Speaker 5: that because I also know you were like a baby
Speaker 5: feminist at this point too, and.
Speaker 4: Like, well, and I just I want to caveat this
Speaker 4: by saying like I am very yes, I'm a feminist
Speaker 4: and I was finding my feminism at the time, but like,
Speaker 4: I'm very sex positive.
Speaker 7: I sure have an only fans, Like, you know, I'm
Speaker 7: not coming at this like a prude, like I'm coming
Speaker 7: at this just in a way of like, oh, I
Speaker 7: grew up in the education system and I thought we
Speaker 7: were equal, and it turns out these women have no agency,
Speaker 7: and actually I don't have any agency either, right, It's
Speaker 7: like it was a devastating thing to learn.
Speaker 4: So actually I ate my feelings, Like, is what wound
Speaker 4: up happening? I gained like fifteen pounds while I was
Speaker 4: on the bus, which was just kind of like a
Speaker 4: weird side effect of seeing all this happen, But yeah,
Speaker 4: it was. And we didn't have language. It was like
Speaker 4: pre me too, so I couldn't be like, this is
Speaker 4: what I'm witnessing and you know, this is what's wrong
Speaker 4: with it. I was just like, ugh, I can't, I
Speaker 4: can't be here anymore. Was what wound up happening?
Speaker 5: So what were the circumstances that you left under?
Speaker 4: We wound up kind of getting kicked out of Canada
Speaker 4: or like we had to leave in the middle of
Speaker 4: the you know, it was like we had to get
Speaker 4: an emergency flight out of Toronto about halfway three or
Speaker 4: four weeks into my time on the tour. And then
Speaker 4: I went to southeast US and we did like North
Speaker 4: Carolina and Georgia and Florida. I always forget I've been
Speaker 4: to the top of Florida because I just kind of
Speaker 4: blocked it out. We also did Saint Louis, Ohio, and
Speaker 4: by the end of my time, I can't even really
Speaker 4: it's hard for me to remember that part because it
Speaker 4: had just gotten so weird for me to be there,
Speaker 4: and I realized, like, oh, I'm not like a girl
Speaker 4: gone wild right at all. I got to get the
Speaker 4: hell out of here. But I had taken this job
Speaker 4: because I needed money. So like the whole time I'm
Speaker 4: on the tour, debt collectors are calling me because like
Speaker 4: I hadn't paid my credit card. It's not like I
Speaker 4: had a place to go back to in LA And
Speaker 4: also so I was so adamant about like what I'm
Speaker 4: going to do, and I have these like very quaint
Speaker 4: Midwestern parents. I wasn't going to call them and be
Speaker 4: like listen, so this is what's going on. I was
Speaker 4: totally wrong. I was felt trapped, which was like the
Speaker 4: worst part of it. Ultimately, I did leave. I left
Speaker 4: on I left on September thirtieth, was my twenty second birthday,
Speaker 4: and that's when I got back to LA. Yeah, there
Speaker 4: was some day where we were in like Alabama or
Speaker 4: like Florida or something, and it was just like oppressive
Speaker 4: heat and I just could not anymore. And I told
Speaker 4: the guy, and I was like I didn't want to.
Speaker 4: I was kind of afraid they were going to make
Speaker 4: me pay for my flight home or I really didn't
Speaker 4: know how I was going to get out of there.
Speaker 4: And then yeah, that was like the one night. I
Speaker 4: don't even think they made me work that night.
Speaker 5: Because it's like the absolute least they can do. I
Speaker 5: hate that. I'm surprised.
Speaker 4: And then I flew back and I was just really
Speaker 4: fucked up for a year and a half. I mean,
Speaker 4: like best case scenario was kind of like you were
Speaker 4: drunk and you actually signed the release form and there
Speaker 4: were girls like on the documentary that didn't even consent
Speaker 4: to being filmed period right, And.
Speaker 5: I mean it's like cases of like underage girls that
Speaker 5: were like I was too drunk to consent and I
Speaker 5: was seventeen, And yeah, once you had moved on from
Speaker 5: that and you're like, Okay, whatever I want to do,
Speaker 5: it's fucking not this. Did you notice as the years passed,
Speaker 5: like what girls Gone Wild kind of legacy was? Did
Speaker 5: you see it pop up in other areas of media.
Speaker 4: It was such a huge cultural thing, the gone Wild
Speaker 4: joke or whatever it was said by like everyone, And
Speaker 4: I feel like that's part of the insidious normalization. Is
Speaker 4: just like if you're fucking straight laced politician is making
Speaker 4: jokes about it too, it seems so normal.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and he's broken through.
Speaker 4: Joe was. It's like he made millions of dollars. I mean,
Speaker 4: there was the legal stuff that was sort of like bubbling,
Speaker 4: but like he wasn't really disrespected in the culture. He
Speaker 4: was like held up as like this guy who made it.
Speaker 4: And so that's probably what these guys now. It's so
Speaker 4: funny to think about these guys now because they're targeting
Speaker 4: specifically drunk people and definitely does have some a whiff
Speaker 4: of Girls Gone Wild what they're doing. But I had
Speaker 4: written about it for the first time, the Girl's Gone
Speaker 4: Wild thing in twenty twelve. And the way that I
Speaker 4: write about it today isn't like drastically different from the
Speaker 4: way that I wrote about it then, So like I
Speaker 4: knew exactly what had happened, and I could articulate it
Speaker 4: then before I even had the language, Like I knew
Speaker 4: that this exploitation was happening, and I could identify my
Speaker 4: role in it. Today feels like drastically different. That's why
Speaker 4: it almost until you reframed it, Like I wasn't like, oh,
Speaker 4: Huktu is a victim. It's like Hucktua seems like such
Speaker 4: a privileged, you know, version of that. It's like she
Speaker 4: wasn't naked, she was just making a sex joke. It
Speaker 4: had nothing to do with her actually doing a sex act.
Speaker 5: You can't get away with what Joe Francis was doing
Speaker 5: in the same way anymore, not even close. No, And
Speaker 5: I think that that's an amazing thing. And I but
Speaker 5: and then there's also this like whiff of like but
Speaker 5: they're there. People will figure out a way to exploit
Speaker 5: young women no matter what.
Speaker 4: Really, OnlyFans is like the you know, next level of
Speaker 4: girls gone wild. And yes there are people who are
Speaker 4: they'll be the management company for these girls and like
Speaker 4: they will get a huge cut of the profit and
Speaker 4: they'll do the chatting and whatever, and that is a
Speaker 4: little bit predatory, but it's nowhere near girls none wild,
Speaker 4: and most of what is happening on OnlyFans is girls
Speaker 4: themselves being like, oh I'm gonna monotize, and I'm not
Speaker 4: saying sometimes it happens also when they're twenty one and
Speaker 4: too mentally immature to really like properly probably make that decision.
Speaker 4: But they are making the money themselves. They are making
Speaker 4: like thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands, occasionally millions of dollars,
Speaker 4: And to me, that is like such an encouraging sign.
Speaker 4: I am really glad that, like we we have language
Speaker 4: now and the only fans thing is is an evolution
Speaker 4: in a positive way for sure, and so I do
Speaker 4: just want to acknowledge like the positive moves, but yeah,
Speaker 4: the culture still is not fixed all the like your body,
Speaker 4: my choice stuff too. It felt like, oh, maybe we
Speaker 4: really did kind of fix this. And then I was like, oh, mine,
Speaker 4: as soon as you think that, you will be shocked
Speaker 4: back into thinking realizing like, oh no, we're still there.
Speaker 3: Thank you so so much to Courtney, and you can
Speaker 3: follow her across all platforms at Courtney Cochek Kocak. I
Speaker 3: wanted to add that little bonus just to give some
Speaker 3: more context into where this content comes from. But the
Speaker 3: fact remains. We're at the end of week one of
Speaker 3: the Hawk Tua series and I have managed to get
Speaker 3: us to I think the second day of the Hawk
Speaker 3: to as story.
Speaker 5: But stay with me here.
Speaker 3: There are so many repeating patterns inside this story, both
Speaker 3: in the ways that Hayley is framed, the decision she makes,
Speaker 3: and the way the public reacts to her. And whether
Speaker 3: you like this woman or not, whether you agree with
Speaker 3: what she thinks, or the kind of audience she pulls,
Speaker 3: or the kinds of people she's been surrounded by. Plenty
Speaker 3: of this is up for discussion, and she was put
Speaker 3: in an extremely weird position to navigate her way through
Speaker 3: or out of, and from what I can gather, it
Speaker 3: was not necessarily voluntarily. So now that we have a
Speaker 3: better understanding of how she got here, who the fuck
Speaker 3: is Hailey Welch and how the fuck does she end
Speaker 3: up in a crypto scam six months after this that's
Speaker 3: next week on sixteenth minute, and a.
Speaker 5: Little foreshadowing to close out this episode. I hate to
Speaker 5: interrupt you, but hello there.
Speaker 3: But any who, I'm gonna go to bed and I'll
Speaker 3: see you guys next Tuesday.
Speaker 5: Bye.
Speaker 2: Sixteenth Minute is a production of Cool Zone Media and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: It is written, posted, and produced by me Jamie Loftus.
Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Sophie Lichterman and Robert Evans. The
Speaker 2: amazing Ian Johnson is our supervising producer and our editor.
Speaker 4: Our theme song is by Sad thirteen.
Speaker 2: Voice acting is from Brant Crater and pet Shout outs
Speaker 2: to our dog producer Anderson, my cat's fleeing Casper, and
Speaker 2: my pet rock Bird, who will outlive us all.
Speaker 5: Bye.