1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: Cold Zone Media. 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 2: Say Your Excusing. 3 00:00:24,440 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 3: Sixty six six Welcome back to sixteenth Minute, the podcast 4 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 3: where we take a look at the internet's characters of 5 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 3: the day to see how their moment affected them and 6 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 3: what that says about us and the Internet. I'm your host, 7 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 3: Jamie Loftus, and today we are continuing to talk about 8 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 3: Hailey Welch, the Hawk to a Girl, well kind of. 9 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 3: When we left off, we were talking about the style 10 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 3: of content that launched Haley to prominence, in her case, 11 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 3: a channel called Tim and d TV that posted clips 12 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 3: across TikTok, YouTube and Instagram. And when I saw the 13 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 3: formula that made their videos popular, it felt kind of 14 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 3: familiar to me. Quickly edited footage of drunk women saying dirty, 15 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 3: silly shit outside of bars, while the men who ran 16 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 3: the show with basically no charisma egged them on to 17 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 3: say more. It reminded me of something, but I couldn't 18 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 3: quite put my finger on what this is. A couple 19 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 3: weeks ago, and then one day, as I was walking 20 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 3: through an outdoor mall to cure my depression, I heard 21 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,679 Speaker 3: the distant sound of a steel drum and then it 22 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 3: came to me. My nipples hardened in fear not the 23 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 3: fun way. I knew what these surveillance TikTok channels reminded 24 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 3: me of Girls Gone Wild, Yes, the Girls Gone Wild 25 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:30,119 Speaker 3: home video craze of the nineties and two thousands, videos 26 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 3: of young attractive women, usually drunk and of even more 27 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 3: dubious consent than the TikTok exploitation videos we see now. 28 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 3: The tapes were pioneered by a bag of shit reality 29 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 3: pioneer by the name of Joe Francis, who occasionally appeared 30 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 3: on the tapes goading normal women into flashing their boobs 31 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:53,639 Speaker 3: to the tune of millions of dollars. They were unbelievably popular, 32 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 3: but these tapes legacies weren't examined in detail until recently 33 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 3: by an amazing jost. I have a strong parasocial relationship 34 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 3: with named Scotchy Cole that began streaming on Peacock in 35 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 3: December twenty twenty four. And this docuseries isn't just a 36 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 3: damning profile of Joe Francis, who, by the way, is 37 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 3: a fugitive living in a Mexican villa after a series 38 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 3: of lawsuits that include child abuse for filming and profiting 39 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 3: from the exposed breasts of underage girls, bracketeering, false. 40 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 4: Imprisonment of women in his home. 41 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 5: The list gets worse and worse. 42 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 3: The docuseries is a look into how the girls and 43 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 3: women who appeared in Girls Gone Wild were treated in 44 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 3: the moment and after their appearance was made public. This 45 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 3: series was surveillance an exploitation at its finest, only this 46 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 3: wasn't the proto reality hidden camera surveillance. The appeal of 47 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 3: Girls Gone Wild was how normal these girls were, how 48 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 3: vulnerable they seemed, and how as they were flashing you 49 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 3: they were looking right into the camera. And because these 50 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 3: were distributed by ordering VHS tapes over the phone, they 51 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,119 Speaker 3: weren't regulated like normal TV would be, and weren't beholden 52 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 3: to Internet terms of service. And apparently at the time, 53 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 3: no one really cared about the level of consent that 54 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 3: the women who appeared in the tapes had provided them. 55 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 3: And don't even get me started on the Hurricane Katrina 56 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 3: fundraising tape from Girls Gone Wild featuring old clips from 57 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 3: exploited women in New Orleans, hosted by Snoop Dogg. 58 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 5: A real sentence. 59 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 6: Warning, this video contains explicit material not suitable for children. 60 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 6: If you think Girls Going Wild with Wild before just 61 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 6: waited you see what these girls do when Snoop Dogg 62 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 6: is unleashed and takes control of the camera. It's not 63 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 6: sold in stores and can't be shown on TV. So 64 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 6: call now and get the all new Girls Gone Wild 65 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 6: Doggy Styles hosted by Snoop Dogg, Yours on video or 66 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 6: GBD for just nine ninety nine. 67 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 3: I highly recommend the Peacock docu series, whose reveals about 68 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 3: Girls Gone Wild include the dubious or complete lack of 69 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 3: consent of the participants, the many underage girls whose bodies 70 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 3: were exploited for the sake of video sales, first hand 71 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 3: accounts of young women whose lives were damaged or destroyed 72 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 3: by their appearance on the tapes, some of whom didn't 73 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 3: even remember being filmed after being plied with alcohol from 74 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 3: Girls Gone Wild producers, and some who were coerced into 75 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 3: performing hardcore sex acts while not sober without proper compensation. 76 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 3: This is not an anti sex work sentiment. These women 77 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 3: were taken advantage of and had little to no agency 78 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 3: as to what appeared in the final product. Nearly thirty 79 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 3: years later, we can pretty easily understand it to be 80 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 3: a horrific operation, but not before it had a tremendously 81 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 3: big influence on Internet content. Girls Gone Wild began distribution 82 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety seven, just shy of when the Internet 83 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 3: became accessible in the mainstream, but you can feel its 84 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 3: presence in the hawk Tua style content we're still getting today. 85 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 4: What's one move in bed that makes a man go crazy? 86 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 5: Every time? Oh, you gotta give him that hawk dude 87 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 5: spit on that night. 88 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 3: Of course, there are stylistic changes. Joe Francis wasn't splicing 89 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 3: lazy meme videos between clips of drunk women he presented 90 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 3: as eagerly consenting, and it's important to note that in 91 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 3: Tim and D's maybe defense that the women in their 92 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 3: videos are fully clothed because they have to comply with 93 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 3: the rules of the platforms they're beholden to. And so 94 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 3: I actually agree with The New York Times when they 95 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 3: say that their content is sort of a gen Zhig 96 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 3: thirteen version of Girls Gone Wild. It's a concept they've 97 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 3: grown up familiar with, though they would have actually been 98 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 3: too young or not alive enough to buy the VHS 99 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 3: tapes themselves, but the format was normalized and replicated through 100 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 3: subsequent popular mediums, and that format includes the payment structure 101 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 3: of the subjects. Girls Gone Wild would get paid in 102 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 3: T shirts, petty cash, or hats. And while I cannot 103 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 3: certify this, nothing about Tim and D's workflow as they 104 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 3: proudly describe it in their quote unquote tell all YouTube 105 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 3: video the Hawk Truth sounds any better. In fact, their 106 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 3: system might be worse. It doesn't sound like Chelsea Bradford 107 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 3: or Haley Welch ever got the T shirts that the 108 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 3: guys were printing with Haley's face on them. And while 109 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 3: sure Tim and D did appear to get verbal consent 110 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 3: from their subjects on camera, the issues of both the 111 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 3: possibility of consent due to intoxication and the fact that 112 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 3: they aren't checking the ages of the people they're talking to. 113 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 5: It's not ethical, period. 114 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 3: A long way of saying, I don't feel bad for 115 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 3: Tim and D for not getting the credit that they 116 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 3: felt they deserved, And upon watching most of Haley's immediate 117 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 3: post hak Tua interviews, mostly on other video podcasts, I 118 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 3: think she was appropriately dismissive of the men who felt 119 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 3: they should be getting a cut of her likeness and words. 120 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 3: Of course, there are plenty of other stereotypes that were 121 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 3: applied to Haley that made this moment possible. The algorithm 122 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 3: always boosts young white women. The hypersexualization of ordinary women 123 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 3: was well established, as was stereotyping Southern accents as uneducated, 124 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 3: as was stereotyping women who admitted to enjoying sex as 125 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 3: objects of ridicule. 126 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 5: Or slut shaming. 127 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 3: But one of the few advantages of coming to prominence 128 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,239 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four was that with the right assistance, 129 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 3: Hailey had a shot at seizing her own narrative for 130 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 3: a while anyway. And so to round this first part 131 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 3: of the Talk to a series out, as Hailey Welch 132 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 3: hard launched herself into pop culture and introduced the version 133 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 3: of herself that would be available to the public, I 134 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 3: wanted to talk to someone who's been through this kind 135 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 3: of process only twenty years earlier, my friend and top 136 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 3: tier podcaster Courtney Kochak. When we come back, Welcome back 137 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,599 Speaker 3: to sixteenth minute. Since I started writing this episode, we 138 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 3: had to evacuate our home due to the city burning down, 139 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 3: and we are continuing to dig deeper into the lore 140 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 3: of Hailey Welch, the Hawk to a Girl. By now, 141 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 3: I hope it's clear to you that how one views 142 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 3: Hailey Welch and the Hawk to a phenomenon in general, 143 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 3: has a lot to do with who you are and 144 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 3: what your experiences are, something that only becomes clearer as 145 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 3: Haley's image is politicized, warped, and exploited for money as 146 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 3: the months wear on, as we'll talk about next week. 147 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 3: And while I think the result of all of this 148 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 3: is still pretty bleak for her, I have noticed and 149 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 3: honestly kind of agree with a number of people who 150 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 3: have been put through a similar exploitation ringer in years past, 151 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 3: who were actually heartened to see that Haley was able 152 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 3: to rest control of her image back from the guys 153 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 3: who had posted her without her proper consent. But I 154 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 3: wanted to understand that viewpoint better, so I called up 155 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 3: Courtney Kochak, the incredible host of shows like Private Parts. 156 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 5: Unknown And maybe you didn't know, because I didn't. She 157 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 5: worked for Girls Gone Wild in the mid two thousands, 158 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 5: and she has some thoughts. Here's our talk. I mean, 159 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,199 Speaker 5: this is a story that is obviously very entrenched in 160 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 5: the Internet, but I feel like it has all of 161 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 5: these dynamics that far pre date the Internet. 162 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 4: So I went to college for acting and was like 163 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 4: kind of be an actor, and so I went out 164 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,599 Speaker 4: to LA and I, you know, I'm from like a 165 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 4: small town in Minnesota, so like I for whatever, I 166 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 4: had no idea, Like I thought, you know, I had 167 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 4: prepared myself in these certain ways, like I did a 168 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 4: BFA program and like scoured the Internet and was like 169 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 4: unmodeled Mayhem and was like doing all the things that 170 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 4: I thought that I could do. But I was still 171 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 4: so naive and so sheltered. So when I got to LA, 172 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 4: I didn't have any money. I had like two hundred dollars. 173 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,959 Speaker 4: I mean seriously, I was staying with a friend in 174 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 4: Van Eyes, so I had no way to pursue what 175 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 4: I was here to pursue. Really, I did the Girls 176 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 4: Gone Wild tour in two thousand and five, and I 177 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 4: was twenty one. I was working this shit job in 178 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 4: the Inland in it was promoting Staples. So I was 179 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 4: going like business to business in the heat of the 180 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 4: Inland empires. Yeah, do you want the easy button for 181 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 4: your business? Like handing out free shit? It was horrible. 182 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 4: That was you know the context of me searching on 183 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 4: Craigslist on my friend's futan, like trying to find another 184 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 4: job to get out of that Hell, and I saw 185 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 4: like do you want to travel for Girls Gone Wild? 186 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 4: Like do you want to go on the tour? Do 187 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 4: you want to be the merch girl? And I was like, oh, 188 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 4: this solves my problems, Like I don't have a permanent home. 189 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 4: I'm kind of like overstaying my welcome on my friend's couch. 190 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 4: I you know, I need money. I submitted for that 191 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 4: Craigslist ad and it was literally like the next day. 192 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 4: I was at work in the Inland Empire and I 193 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 4: faked that I was sick and I went to meet 194 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 4: with them at their offices in Santa Monica. They had 195 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 4: this office building. 196 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 5: What did you think when you thought Girls Gone Wild? 197 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 5: What was your stance on it at the time. 198 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:13,319 Speaker 4: Yeah, I had never seen an actual video, you know, 199 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 4: like I'd never seen their product, but the infomercials were ubiquitous, 200 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 4: like that was and they were fun to watch, right. 201 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 4: It was like steel drum music, right, And it was like, yeah, 202 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 4: these little pop up sensors. It looked like a party. 203 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 4: It looked like what they were selling was a fun party, 204 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 4: and like, yeah, girls flash and like, of course they're 205 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 4: cool and it's fun, you know, That's what I thought. Yeah, 206 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 4: so I had no fucking idea. You know, do the interview, 207 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 4: and I think it's going to solve all my problems 208 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 4: because it's I'm not going to have to find this 209 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 4: place to live. I will have money. I had to 210 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 4: look up my tax return and I made I think 211 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 4: I made fifty dollars a day is what I made. 212 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 4: I was on the tour for like seven been weeks, 213 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 4: and so when you'd like do the math off of 214 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 4: what I made, it was forty six dollars. Anyway, I 215 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 4: get on the flight, I go do the interview. They 216 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,599 Speaker 4: basically tell me at the interview, like your job is 217 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,199 Speaker 4: to make the girls feel comfortable. What they sort of 218 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 4: didn't say is like enough to be exploited, you know. 219 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 4: I you know, And I hadn't seen the video, so 220 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 4: I didn't know exactly, but I could get the vibe. 221 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 4: But I was like, yeah, I'm cool, I'm fun. I 222 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 4: want to be hot enough to do that, you know, 223 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 4: like totally. 224 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 5: I mean I think that it's like this weird Oh 225 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 5: I've been entrusted with, Like yeah, I've been hired as 226 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 5: a girl's girl. 227 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 4: And the guy that I met with he had had 228 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 4: Hollywood kind of experiences. But it seemed adjacent to what 229 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 4: I wanted to do, so I was like I could 230 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 4: kind of kid myself into feeling like it was like 231 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 4: sort of like the entertainment industry. And yeah, I left 232 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 4: like literally the next day, went to Vancouver, and and 233 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 4: then obviously we didn't have work permits in Canada. We 234 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 4: were in Canada like half the time I was on 235 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 4: the tour. It was two thousand and five, so Joe 236 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 4: was starting to have legal problems at this point. And 237 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 4: I never met him, but he definitely loomed large. He'd 238 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 4: already i think, been on People magazine, and when we 239 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 4: went to bars and stuff, it's like people knew about 240 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 4: about him and like wanted to meet him. And then 241 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 4: we were traveling in this garish branded bus that just 242 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 4: said like girls Gone Wild. When we started doing the 243 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 4: club events, I was like, Oh, this is kind of 244 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 4: like a sham, Like we're not bringing the party at all. 245 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 5: Really, what do you mean? 246 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 4: If you saw the infomercials, you would think like we 247 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 4: were going to roll up and there were going to 248 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 4: be a bunch of girls, like we were going to 249 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 4: bring the girls, you know, But it was just OK. 250 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 4: I was the only girl, and I was like I 251 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 4: just saw a picture of myself. I was a baby, 252 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 4: Like I was a little like fat cheeked, little bib 253 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 4: twenty one year old baby. 254 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 5: And you were the only girls that they brought. Yes, 255 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 5: So were they just relying on the like, hey, we're 256 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 5: going to be in this spot at this time and 257 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 5: just sort of had people come do the work for. 258 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 4: Them basically, yeah, I mean you saw the documentary, so 259 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 4: it's like that was their whole thing was that they 260 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 4: didn't want urban girls either, like we sometimes were in cities, 261 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 4: but we were trying to get out of the cities 262 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 4: asap because cities, college towns. It's like they didn't want 263 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 4: anybody that was kind of like hipped to what they 264 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 4: were doing. They really wanted like a small town where 265 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 4: people were naive. 266 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 5: Like it would be more of an event versus and. 267 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 4: Yes, and it would be more of an event. But 268 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 4: they were also not like there weren't you know, a 269 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 4: bunch of feminists to be like, hey, what the fuck's 270 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 4: going on here? 271 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 3: You know, right right? 272 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 5: You don't have the counter protesters either. 273 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 4: What they were doing is drawing the girls from the 274 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 4: town that they could then shoot and have be the 275 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 4: product that they were selling. Obviously, nobody got paid. I 276 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 4: didn't see anyone get paid except one girl was a 277 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 4: stripper and so she knew how to negotiate with them. 278 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 4: She knew to ask for money, you know, she like 279 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 4: had a little savvy about it. But nobody else got paid. 280 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 5: Were their consent forms? Was there any like checking of 281 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 5: people's ages? Like how did that side work? 282 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 4: They had already gotten in trouble for this at this point. 283 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 4: I think the age thing, you know, it was pretty specific, 284 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 4: like the girl had to like hold up the ID 285 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 4: and say on camera that she consented and signed the thing. 286 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 4: Like there were like a few steps to the lockdown 287 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 4: the consent form. 288 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 5: So that's yeah. That's the other thing too, is like 289 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 5: in retrospect, it's like, Okay, I think that honestly, getting 290 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 5: a piece of paper is more than a lot of 291 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 5: these on the street TikTokers do now. But it's also like, 292 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 5: what is that piece of paper if you're got drunk 293 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 5: when you sign it? 294 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:08,120 Speaker 4: I think they should be obviously, I don't know. It's 295 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 4: like they are over eighteen. It's like technically, yes, it's 296 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 4: a legal document, but to sign a thing where you're 297 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 4: like giving permission to sell your body when you're drunk. 298 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 4: I mean it should be illegal to ask someone to 299 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 4: sign that document. 300 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 5: I think on a normal night, while you're on this 301 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 5: bus tour, what does it look. 302 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 4: Like for you? Well, we did. We had so many issues, 303 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 4: like getting dates canceled, so it's not like we were 304 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 4: working every night, thank god. But like when we did 305 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 4: have an event on our good club nights, I would 306 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 4: be selling T shirts, which was kind of hard to do, 307 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 4: or sometimes the T shirts were being given away, you know, 308 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 4: to the girls, but yeah, that was my job. And 309 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 4: then hanging out on the bus us, you know, pouring 310 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 4: drinks and just like being a girl, which they told 311 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 4: me would be the job, Like just to have you 312 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 4: there is gonna make the other girls want to hang out. 313 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 4: I wasn't like in the room when the naked stuff 314 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 4: was happening, but I but I would see them. For me, 315 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 4: the most fucked up part, I mean, this is really 316 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 4: I don't know, we've never talked about this before, but 317 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 4: like this is like a defining thing for me. When 318 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 4: I was twenty and twenty one, it's like I got 319 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 4: raped twice. I did Girls Gone Wild, and then when 320 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 4: I was twenty three, I had an abortion and by 321 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 4: the end, I was like, oh, I don't, I'm like 322 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 4: a totally different person. What I was about to say 323 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 4: is one of the things that really made me depressed 324 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 4: when I was on this tour was like the whole 325 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 4: vibe of it was like, we're rating women constantly on 326 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,360 Speaker 4: a scale from one to ten. We're scouting for these 327 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 4: women to be in our scenes, even if we're like 328 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 4: out at dinner or you know whatever. Just like twenty 329 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 4: four to seven guy's got paid five hundred bucks or 330 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 4: whatever for a scene if they could get a scene, 331 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 4: which was it would be like a girl eating an 332 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 4: out another girl, or playing with sex toys, or a 333 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 4: scene is like, you know, like a porn scene. 334 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 5: So the women doing this are signing consent forums and 335 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 5: doing it for free or for merch But if you're 336 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 5: a guy who could convince them to do it, yes, 337 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 5: you make five hundred. 338 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 4: Dollars, yes, or I don't know exactly the amount, like 339 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:31,680 Speaker 4: maybe it was like two hundred or something, you know, 340 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 4: but yes, you were getting paid. You make money. 341 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 5: What was it like sort of observing that and processing 342 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 5: that because I also know you were like a baby 343 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:40,439 Speaker 5: feminist at this point too, and. 344 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 4: Like, well, and I just I want to caveat this 345 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 4: by saying like I am very yes, I'm a feminist 346 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,399 Speaker 4: and I was finding my feminism at the time, but like, 347 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 4: I'm very sex positive. 348 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 7: I sure have an only fans, Like, you know, I'm 349 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,919 Speaker 7: not coming at this like a prude, like I'm coming 350 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 7: at this just in a way of like, oh, I 351 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,159 Speaker 7: grew up in the education system and I thought we 352 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 7: were equal, and it turns out these women have no agency, 353 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 7: and actually I don't have any agency either, right, It's 354 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 7: like it was a devastating thing to learn. 355 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 4: So actually I ate my feelings, Like, is what wound 356 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 4: up happening? I gained like fifteen pounds while I was 357 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 4: on the bus, which was just kind of like a 358 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 4: weird side effect of seeing all this happen, But yeah, 359 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 4: it was. And we didn't have language. It was like 360 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 4: pre me too, so I couldn't be like, this is 361 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 4: what I'm witnessing and you know, this is what's wrong 362 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 4: with it. I was just like, ugh, I can't, I 363 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,719 Speaker 4: can't be here anymore. Was what wound up happening? 364 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 5: So what were the circumstances that you left under? 365 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,360 Speaker 4: We wound up kind of getting kicked out of Canada 366 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 4: or like we had to leave in the middle of 367 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 4: the you know, it was like we had to get 368 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 4: an emergency flight out of Toronto about halfway three or 369 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 4: four weeks into my time on the tour. And then 370 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 4: I went to southeast US and we did like North 371 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 4: Carolina and Georgia and Florida. I always forget I've been 372 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 4: to the top of Florida because I just kind of 373 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 4: blocked it out. We also did Saint Louis, Ohio, and 374 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 4: by the end of my time, I can't even really 375 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 4: it's hard for me to remember that part because it 376 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 4: had just gotten so weird for me to be there, 377 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 4: and I realized, like, oh, I'm not like a girl 378 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 4: gone wild right at all. I got to get the 379 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 4: hell out of here. But I had taken this job 380 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 4: because I needed money. So like the whole time I'm 381 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 4: on the tour, debt collectors are calling me because like 382 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 4: I hadn't paid my credit card. It's not like I 383 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 4: had a place to go back to in LA And 384 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 4: also so I was so adamant about like what I'm 385 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 4: going to do, and I have these like very quaint 386 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 4: Midwestern parents. I wasn't going to call them and be 387 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 4: like listen, so this is what's going on. I was 388 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 4: totally wrong. I was felt trapped, which was like the 389 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 4: worst part of it. Ultimately, I did leave. I left 390 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:26,159 Speaker 4: on I left on September thirtieth, was my twenty second birthday, 391 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 4: and that's when I got back to LA. Yeah, there 392 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 4: was some day where we were in like Alabama or 393 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 4: like Florida or something, and it was just like oppressive 394 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 4: heat and I just could not anymore. And I told 395 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 4: the guy, and I was like I didn't want to. 396 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 4: I was kind of afraid they were going to make 397 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 4: me pay for my flight home or I really didn't 398 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:47,400 Speaker 4: know how I was going to get out of there. 399 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 4: And then yeah, that was like the one night. I 400 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 4: don't even think they made me work that night. 401 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 5: Because it's like the absolute least they can do. I 402 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 5: hate that. I'm surprised. 403 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 4: And then I flew back and I was just really 404 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 4: fucked up for a year and a half. I mean, 405 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 4: like best case scenario was kind of like you were 406 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:11,199 Speaker 4: drunk and you actually signed the release form and there 407 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 4: were girls like on the documentary that didn't even consent 408 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 4: to being filmed period right, And. 409 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 5: I mean it's like cases of like underage girls that 410 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 5: were like I was too drunk to consent and I 411 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 5: was seventeen, And yeah, once you had moved on from 412 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 5: that and you're like, Okay, whatever I want to do, 413 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 5: it's fucking not this. Did you notice as the years passed, 414 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 5: like what girls Gone Wild kind of legacy was? Did 415 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,679 Speaker 5: you see it pop up in other areas of media. 416 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 4: It was such a huge cultural thing, the gone Wild 417 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 4: joke or whatever it was said by like everyone, And 418 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 4: I feel like that's part of the insidious normalization. Is 419 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 4: just like if you're fucking straight laced politician is making 420 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 4: jokes about it too, it seems so normal. 421 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 5: Yeah, and he's broken through. 422 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 4: Joe was. It's like he made millions of dollars. I mean, 423 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 4: there was the legal stuff that was sort of like bubbling, 424 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 4: but like he wasn't really disrespected in the culture. He 425 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 4: was like held up as like this guy who made it. 426 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 4: And so that's probably what these guys now. It's so 427 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 4: funny to think about these guys now because they're targeting 428 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 4: specifically drunk people and definitely does have some a whiff 429 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 4: of Girls Gone Wild what they're doing. But I had 430 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,880 Speaker 4: written about it for the first time, the Girl's Gone 431 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 4: Wild thing in twenty twelve. And the way that I 432 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 4: write about it today isn't like drastically different from the 433 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 4: way that I wrote about it then, So like I 434 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 4: knew exactly what had happened, and I could articulate it 435 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 4: then before I even had the language, Like I knew 436 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 4: that this exploitation was happening, and I could identify my 437 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 4: role in it. Today feels like drastically different. That's why 438 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 4: it almost until you reframed it, Like I wasn't like, oh, 439 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 4: Huktu is a victim. It's like Hucktua seems like such 440 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 4: a privileged, you know, version of that. It's like she 441 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 4: wasn't naked, she was just making a sex joke. It 442 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 4: had nothing to do with her actually doing a sex act. 443 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 5: You can't get away with what Joe Francis was doing 444 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 5: in the same way anymore, not even close. No, And 445 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 5: I think that that's an amazing thing. And I but 446 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 5: and then there's also this like whiff of like but 447 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 5: they're there. People will figure out a way to exploit 448 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 5: young women no matter what. 449 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 4: Really, OnlyFans is like the you know, next level of 450 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,360 Speaker 4: girls gone wild. And yes there are people who are 451 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 4: they'll be the management company for these girls and like 452 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 4: they will get a huge cut of the profit and 453 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 4: they'll do the chatting and whatever, and that is a 454 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 4: little bit predatory, but it's nowhere near girls none wild, 455 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 4: and most of what is happening on OnlyFans is girls 456 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 4: themselves being like, oh I'm gonna monotize, and I'm not 457 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 4: saying sometimes it happens also when they're twenty one and 458 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 4: too mentally immature to really like properly probably make that decision. 459 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 4: But they are making the money themselves. They are making 460 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 4: like thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands, occasionally millions of dollars, 461 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 4: And to me, that is like such an encouraging sign. 462 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 4: I am really glad that, like we we have language 463 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 4: now and the only fans thing is is an evolution 464 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 4: in a positive way for sure, and so I do 465 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 4: just want to acknowledge like the positive moves, but yeah, 466 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 4: the culture still is not fixed all the like your body, 467 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 4: my choice stuff too. It felt like, oh, maybe we 468 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 4: really did kind of fix this. And then I was like, oh, mine, 469 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 4: as soon as you think that, you will be shocked 470 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,959 Speaker 4: back into thinking realizing like, oh no, we're still there. 471 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 3: Thank you so so much to Courtney, and you can 472 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:20,440 Speaker 3: follow her across all platforms at Courtney Cochek Kocak. I 473 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 3: wanted to add that little bonus just to give some 474 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 3: more context into where this content comes from. But the 475 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 3: fact remains. We're at the end of week one of 476 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,160 Speaker 3: the Hawk Tua series and I have managed to get 477 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 3: us to I think the second day of the Hawk 478 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 3: to as story. 479 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 5: But stay with me here. 480 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 3: There are so many repeating patterns inside this story, both 481 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 3: in the ways that Hayley is framed, the decision she makes, 482 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 3: and the way the public reacts to her. And whether 483 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 3: you like this woman or not, whether you agree with 484 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 3: what she thinks, or the kind of audience she pulls, 485 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 3: or the kinds of people she's been surrounded by. Plenty 486 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 3: of this is up for discussion, and she was put 487 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 3: in an extremely weird position to navigate her way through 488 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 3: or out of, and from what I can gather, it 489 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 3: was not necessarily voluntarily. So now that we have a 490 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 3: better understanding of how she got here, who the fuck 491 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 3: is Hailey Welch and how the fuck does she end 492 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 3: up in a crypto scam six months after this that's 493 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 3: next week on sixteenth minute, and a. 494 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 5: Little foreshadowing to close out this episode. I hate to 495 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 5: interrupt you, but hello there. 496 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 3: But any who, I'm gonna go to bed and I'll 497 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 3: see you guys next Tuesday. 498 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 5: Bye. 499 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 2: Sixteenth Minute is a production of Cool Zone Media and iHeartRadio. 500 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 2: It is written, posted, and produced by me Jamie Loftus. 501 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Sophie Lichterman and Robert Evans. The 502 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 2: amazing Ian Johnson is our supervising producer and our editor. 503 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 4: Our theme song is by Sad thirteen. 504 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 2: Voice acting is from Brant Crater and pet Shout outs 505 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 2: to our dog producer Anderson, my cat's fleeing Casper, and 506 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 2: my pet rock Bird, who will outlive us all. 507 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 5: Bye.