Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2: The journey to net zero is one of the biggest
Speaker 2: challenges humanity has ever faced. As temperatures keep rising, the
Speaker 2: devastating effects of climate change are becoming more severe. In
Speaker 2: this new series of Leaders with Lacwago's Green, we go
Speaker 2: beyond the headlines and speak to the people who are
Speaker 2: confronting the climate crisis through their work to learn how
Speaker 2: they're positioning.
Speaker 1: For the future.
Speaker 2: I begin with the man in charge of the world's
Speaker 2: largest sovereign wealth fund, valued at almost one point six
Speaker 2: trillion dollars. Norges Bank Investment Management is the biggest owner
Speaker 2: of stocks globally, with stakes in almost nine thousand companies.
Speaker 2: It was established to invest Norway's vast fossil fuel riches,
Speaker 2: but as the energy transition gains momentum, it's sought to
Speaker 2: reduce exposure to oil and gas. Instead of divesting, its
Speaker 2: strategy is to apply pressure from within. Nikolai Tangen has
Speaker 2: been at the top of finance for over three decades,
Speaker 2: but his toughest test may lie ahead. Thank you so
Speaker 2: much for joining us on Leaders with Lack What goes Green?
Speaker 2: So what does it take to be a leader in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3: I think what it takes is more emphasis on empathy
Speaker 3: and in a world which is leading towards whether it's
Speaker 3: more machines, more AI, we need to lean more towards
Speaker 3: what is it that makes us human?
Speaker 2: So that whole thing is more important than ever before.
Speaker 2: But the world is so complex at the moment. How
Speaker 2: do you distinguish the noise from the facts. Well, that
Speaker 2: is also more important than ever before.
Speaker 3: It's to make that distinction and to just establish the facts,
Speaker 3: talk to people and just exclude all the noise, all
Speaker 3: the social media, all these.
Speaker 4: Kind of things.
Speaker 2: You're a leader almost like no other because you lead
Speaker 2: the largest sovereign wealth one in the world. You want
Speaker 2: to explain to everyone that's interested in what the Fund does,
Speaker 2: and you also have a podcast, you do investments.
Speaker 1: Like what kind of leader do you think you are?
Speaker 3: I think I am a very including leader. And the
Speaker 3: good thing by leading the people in the Fund is
Speaker 3: that they are just so smart and so clever, and
Speaker 3: so they don't need much leadership. They just need a
Speaker 3: bit of direction and then they figure it out themselves.
Speaker 2: But you've done quite a lot since since joining the Fund,
Speaker 2: and that was during the pandemic, how do you see
Speaker 2: the fund changing?
Speaker 3: It's interesting, but in some ways it's easier to make
Speaker 3: changes during a period like the pandemic, because people are
Speaker 3: at home and they are spread out, and so when
Speaker 3: you suggest some things, it's perhaps easier to get them to.
Speaker 4: Do the new thing.
Speaker 1: I don't believe that for one second. It's always hard.
Speaker 2: I mean, if it's hard to change culture, it's hard
Speaker 2: to change people.
Speaker 3: Well, you have to explain why you do it, and
Speaker 3: I think make even more sure than before that people
Speaker 3: have a true purpose.
Speaker 4: And so you have to distill down what is.
Speaker 3: The purpose of what you do, what is the purpose
Speaker 3: of your company, and make that very clear and repeat
Speaker 3: it and repeat it and repeat it. And it's very
Speaker 3: clear what all purposes is to make money for the
Speaker 3: Norwegian population.
Speaker 2: So why do you accept the job you were You
Speaker 2: had a great life, I mean, you had a.
Speaker 1: Hedge fund that was doing very well, you were earning
Speaker 1: lots of money. Well, I had a great love, I
Speaker 1: had a great life.
Speaker 4: But I still have a great life and you know,
Speaker 4: really good life.
Speaker 3: Now. I was very keen on that job because one
Speaker 3: I think it's one of the most important positions in
Speaker 3: as at management, Right, I love as at management in
Speaker 3: terms of the opportunity to develop that organization further. There
Speaker 3: was there were great opportunities, and I love organizational development.
Speaker 3: And then to do something nice for the country. I mean,
Speaker 3: these three things came together in the same job.
Speaker 2: Why do you love asset management because you can influence
Speaker 2: and change the future? Or is it being clever than
Speaker 2: anyone else?
Speaker 3: Asset management is the most interesting job in the world,
Speaker 3: perhaps after being at journalists.
Speaker 4: Why is that?
Speaker 3: Well, everything you eat, drink, drive, all these kind of
Speaker 3: things is made by a company. You have you need
Speaker 3: to understand psychology in terms of the companies. You need
Speaker 3: to understand the corporate culture of companies. And then these
Speaker 3: things change all the time. Right, you have the macroeconomies changing,
Speaker 3: interest is changing, currencies are changing, and you know, the
Speaker 3: data points are just changing all the time. You just
Speaker 3: couldn't invent a more fascinating game even if you try it.
Speaker 2: But it's harder now, I think, I feel it feels
Speaker 2: like things are changing faster. Right, Inflation forecasts straight forecasts
Speaker 2: are changing.
Speaker 4: Is changing very fast.
Speaker 3: So on the one hand, that means that you need
Speaker 3: to be very observant and agile At the same time,
Speaker 3: I think there is even more scope if you managed
Speaker 3: to be contrarian in what you do, and if you
Speaker 3: managed to be long term. I think that's where the
Speaker 3: money is. The big arbitrage now is to be contrariant
Speaker 3: and long term.
Speaker 2: What do you think markets are getting wrong right now?
Speaker 3: Well, it's a bit kind of arrogant to say that
Speaker 3: the market is wrong, because what is the market. The
Speaker 3: market is the total IQ of all the people in
Speaker 3: the world, right, So that's a tough one.
Speaker 4: I do.
Speaker 3: I do think that inflation will be tough to get done.
Speaker 3: There is more near shoring. We are seeing some well,
Speaker 3: we have recently seen some more pressure on raw materials.
Speaker 4: Way increases are quite high.
Speaker 3: So I suspect that we won't see the type of
Speaker 3: breakouts that many people expect.
Speaker 1: What do you see?
Speaker 2: I mean, there's this US exceptionalism, which is what we're
Speaker 2: seeing in the US economy, the inflation data, what the
Speaker 2: FED does. What have we gotten wrong on the US economy?
Speaker 3: Well, the US economy is actually pretty good, certainly relative
Speaker 3: to Europe, right and we see it as well when
Speaker 3: I have when I see US CEOs, they are just
Speaker 3: seeing the backjob for doing business in America is so
Speaker 3: much better than doing business in Europe. So a lot
Speaker 3: of things are going right in America.
Speaker 2: How much time do you spend looking at what the
Speaker 2: Fed does or what the economy does? And how much
Speaker 2: time do you spend understanding your companies and thinking about
Speaker 2: what themes you need to be invested in.
Speaker 3: No, I think they go They kind of go together.
Speaker 3: I think you understand the economy through the companies. So
Speaker 3: my job, in a way is to speak to companies
Speaker 3: and try to create this kind of mosaic of information.
Speaker 2: What do you see as the biggest change for our economies?
Speaker 2: Is it AI which is being priced in? Or is
Speaker 2: it geopolitics.
Speaker 3: I don't think you can differentiate AI from geopolitics anymore.
Speaker 3: They are so deeply intertwined because AI is now an
Speaker 3: important part of weapons, systems, of healthcare, research, of car technology,
Speaker 3: EV technology, So they just go together.
Speaker 4: So it's a new thing now. Micro chips is also.
Speaker 3: An important part of the geopolitics wasn't to the same
Speaker 3: extent before. So all these things are just much more
Speaker 3: complicated than they have been.
Speaker 2: You're tantalized right by this exciting change, when many people
Speaker 2: are actually really worried about what's coming.
Speaker 3: Well, I think the world has never been more has
Speaker 3: never been more exciting. Right, what's happening in AI is
Speaker 3: leading to some tremendous change, leading to some huge progress,
Speaker 3: for instance, in in the way we do research in
Speaker 3: an R and D, in the farmer industry. It's improving
Speaker 3: the you know, the weather forecast, It's improving a lot
Speaker 3: of things. Right, It's just a tremendous increase in compute power.
Speaker 3: So generally it's a positive thing.
Speaker 1: Are you mainly positive or do you also worry about
Speaker 1: you know, it's.
Speaker 3: Mainly I think it's mainly positive. And then the question,
Speaker 3: of course is how do you regulate this? I think
Speaker 3: it's going to be very tough to regulate because it's
Speaker 3: so embedded into kind of the competitive landscape between the superpowers.
Speaker 2: What's it mean for your investments in AI? You don't,
Speaker 2: of course, you don't choose one hundred percent? Will you
Speaker 2: invest because you have you know, a framework, but by
Speaker 2: the government. But how do you see the adoption of
Speaker 2: AI going forward?
Speaker 4: We are seeing the adoption we say fast adoption.
Speaker 3: And it's also interesting what are the applications for productivity?
Speaker 4: So on the podcast we have.
Speaker 3: I asked Samult, and you know, what kind of productivity
Speaker 3: growth should we see in our company over the next
Speaker 3: felve months, and he thought we should see twenty percent.
Speaker 4: Right, So I will.
Speaker 3: Around in the office and say, hey, how are you
Speaker 3: going to become twenty percent more efficient?
Speaker 4: What exactly are you doing? And I think we all
Speaker 4: need to ask ourselves about that.
Speaker 1: How are you?
Speaker 4: How are you doing?
Speaker 3: How?
Speaker 4: I was just asking you first?
Speaker 1: So for me maybe I can have multiple language.
Speaker 2: Skills exactly, which is something that actually you were mentioning.
Speaker 2: You have this podcast, which I know you enjoy doing.
Speaker 2: Why do you enjoy it so much?
Speaker 4: Oh? Why? I mean?
Speaker 3: So we started the podcast in order to give the
Speaker 3: Norwegian population insight into the type of companies they own, right,
Speaker 3: And it's basically we just learn a lot. We learn
Speaker 3: a lot which is relevant for students to listen to
Speaker 3: the podcast business leaders, we ourselves. It's important and you
Speaker 3: have the ability to talk to the people who actually
Speaker 3: kind of leave the world.
Speaker 4: It's fascinating, right.
Speaker 3: And also I need to read up on all these industries,
Speaker 3: so that's what I do during the weekends.
Speaker 4: Many of them have written books.
Speaker 3: I have to read the books, you know, you have
Speaker 3: to the insight into various industries.
Speaker 4: It's it's fantastic for learning.
Speaker 1: Who's the toughest interview you've done? Well?
Speaker 3: We had a pretty tough one with with Elon Musk
Speaker 3: because we had some technical issues, and of course that
Speaker 3: you need to kind of keep concentration whilst you have
Speaker 3: some technical issues. That's not so that's not so easy.
Speaker 3: But I think they're all they're all very good. I mean,
Speaker 3: these are great people and it's fascinating to talk to
Speaker 3: talk to them.
Speaker 2: You're a big investor in test, do you do you
Speaker 2: get into the nitty gritty of actually what a company does,
Speaker 2: what they're promising, to see whether your investment continues.
Speaker 4: Well, we don't. We don't really, I don't really do
Speaker 4: that kind.
Speaker 3: Of nitty gritty, like how many cars are you going
Speaker 3: to tell? How many of them are red, how many
Speaker 3: of them are blue? You know, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 3: I just don't think that's necessarily important for the long
Speaker 3: term success of the company. But so why what where
Speaker 3: I spend time is on the business model to try
Speaker 3: to understand where where they make money and why they
Speaker 3: should continue to do well in the future.
Speaker 4: And a lot of time on corporate culture leadership.
Speaker 3: I think corporate culture is is completely underrat you know,
Speaker 3: it's just underestimated because you can have two companies which
Speaker 3: do exactly the same, or at least that's what looks
Speaker 3: like on the surface.
Speaker 4: One is hugely successful, one is a complete failure. What
Speaker 4: is it?
Speaker 3: You know, there is just something in the company and
Speaker 3: the way they conduct business which is so important.
Speaker 2: Coming up Nikolay Tangen on why the world has stumbled
Speaker 2: on the path to a greener future. The commitment of
Speaker 2: oil and gas companies is crucial to achieving net zero.
Speaker 2: The industry supplies more than half of the world's energy
Speaker 2: and is one of the planet's biggest polluters. Oil majors
Speaker 2: have vowed to cut production and slash emissions, but recently,
Speaker 2: after record breaking profits, some have walked back on those pledges,
Speaker 2: despite pressure from institutional investors like Norway Sovereign Wealth Fund.
Speaker 2: I continue the conversation with Nikolai Tangan. You've been one
Speaker 2: of the most committed to climate change and to ESG matters.
Speaker 1: Are we taking a backstep as a world?
Speaker 3: Yes, we have done unfortunately, very unfortunate, but yes, the
Speaker 3: world has taken a step back and I guess we
Speaker 3: are one of the few big investors out there now
Speaker 3: who continue to be consistent and who continued to talk
Speaker 3: about these things the way we have done all the time.
Speaker 3: But many people have kind of turned on the volume
Speaker 3: on that messaging.
Speaker 1: Why have we taken a step back?
Speaker 3: Well, I think on the back of higher energy prices,
Speaker 3: the energy sector got more confidence, there was more focus
Speaker 3: on energy security, and that's kind of what started it, right,
Speaker 3: And then you have had some political movements as well
Speaker 3: which have moved in the same direction.
Speaker 2: Nicolete, when you look on on some of your investments,
Speaker 2: how difficult is it to take a company, a big company,
Speaker 2: an oil major and change it from within as an investor,
Speaker 2: and therefore how difficult is it to decide to stay
Speaker 2: invested in that company?
Speaker 3: Well, it's an important question because you can do two things.
Speaker 3: If a company doesn't quite do what you think they
Speaker 3: should be doing, you can sell it, or you can
Speaker 3: continue to have a dialogue with them and try to
Speaker 3: get them to change tech.
Speaker 4: Right now, what do you achieve if you sell it?
Speaker 3: You basically end up with a company which is owned
Speaker 3: by investors who don't care. That doesn't make a lot
Speaker 3: of sense. So therefore, we continue to have a dialogue
Speaker 3: with these company's, show understanding and remain invested whilst they
Speaker 3: are in that transition period.
Speaker 2: Where do you feel you've made a difference and where
Speaker 2: have you been disappointed?
Speaker 3: I think we made a difference many places. Now I
Speaker 3: wouldn't say we have revolutionized the oil and gas industry,
Speaker 3: but we have been been supportive and helpful in many cases.
Speaker 3: And that's also what we hear back from the companies.
Speaker 2: When you look at I think you have a commitment
Speaker 2: to make all your portfolio and at zero by twenty fifty.
Speaker 1: Is that achievable? Certainly a goal we have.
Speaker 2: Why are you so committed to climate change in twenty twenty.
Speaker 3: Four because there are There are two things which is important.
Speaker 3: One is to not let small problems become big. But
Speaker 3: it's also important not to let big problems become small. Now,
Speaker 3: the climate situation we're in, it's clearly a very, very
Speaker 3: big problem. We had the hottest year on record last year.
Speaker 3: It started to have impact in many, many different ways.
Speaker 3: You see it in the reinsurance prices, you see it
Speaker 3: in a lot of you know, worse harvests. It's leading
Speaker 3: in some cases to increase immigration immigration, so it's impacting
Speaker 3: the world in very many different ways. Now, at the
Speaker 3: end of the day, this is actually a financial risk
Speaker 3: because it's a risk to the value of the fund.
Speaker 3: And if you're invested across the world and one company pollutes,
Speaker 3: you can't hide it, right because you capture that pollution
Speaker 3: in all the other mean as your own. So it's
Speaker 3: very very important that the main shareholder is engaged in this.
Speaker 2: Do you worry that actually, you know, investors don't engage
Speaker 2: with some of these companies. And I know you also
Speaker 2: have an ethics basically committee, the ethics Council whether you
Speaker 2: can invest, which is independent but gives you advice or
Speaker 2: actually forces you to either sell investments or not invest
Speaker 2: in companies that are not ethical. How does that relationship work?
Speaker 3: No, it works really well. So this is a separate
Speaker 3: counsel of ethics. They have various criteria they look at
Speaker 3: for instance, human the human rights criteria, the cold criteria,
Speaker 3: Uklear weapon criteria, and then they would go into deep
Speaker 3: research with various companies to see what do they whether
Speaker 3: they breach their criteria and if they do, they would
Speaker 3: advise us to exit.
Speaker 1: And has that happened? Yeah, sure on climate change.
Speaker 3: On climate change, we do exclude some companies over selves,
Speaker 3: and it can be various parts of that they can be.
Speaker 4: That could be, for instance, people use water resources and
Speaker 4: so on.
Speaker 2: I think you're also invested in like physical assets like
Speaker 2: not went sure, but renewables. What makes more sense for
Speaker 2: an investor like yourselves being a shareholder actually.
Speaker 1: Owning the parks. I think you can do both.
Speaker 4: You know, we do both.
Speaker 3: We own some of the companies who are involved in
Speaker 3: these projects, but we also own particular projections, not that
Speaker 3: many because it recently came into our mandate, so we
Speaker 3: have we've done it. And then also in the beginning
Speaker 3: the returns weren't that's attractive. We think the returns are
Speaker 3: better now and so we have accelerated that activity.
Speaker 2: And this is better returns better in Europe because there's
Speaker 2: more regulation to push towards green energy or actually does
Speaker 2: the Inflation Production Act means that there's going to be
Speaker 2: more on shore and more appeal for green technology in
Speaker 2: the UN.
Speaker 3: I think what we've seen is that the Inflation Reduction
Speaker 3: Act has made the many of the investments in the
Speaker 3: US more attractive than what the score is in Europe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and will that change with the mean China is
Speaker 2: also doing a lot of evs. So when you look
Speaker 2: at all of all of this competition across the energy sectors,
Speaker 2: where do you think you will be invested in five
Speaker 2: six years from now?
Speaker 4: Well, it's difficult to say.
Speaker 3: And also we don't know whether the inflation reduction will
Speaker 3: remain or whether it's going to be renewed, or whether
Speaker 3: it's going to be you know, changed, So I don't
Speaker 3: I don't think. I don't think we really know that.
Speaker 3: But for the time being in the US looks looks
Speaker 3: pretty good. How do you see the US political cycle
Speaker 3: and the rest.
Speaker 4: So we have no view on that.
Speaker 3: We are a very long term investor and we remain
Speaker 3: invested throughout political cycles.
Speaker 2: But does this year, I think four and a half
Speaker 2: billion people go to vote, does that test AI or
Speaker 2: does that test your investment strategy?
Speaker 3: I don't think you test our investment strategy because we
Speaker 3: generally are invested over these type of cycles. I don't
Speaker 3: think you can kind of change your portfolio according to
Speaker 3: where the election is. And also markets are pretty sophisticated, right,
Speaker 3: so they are their account they are basically discounting, you know,
Speaker 3: the current probability of the various elections we are seeing.
Speaker 3: It is questioning the use of AI in social media,
Speaker 3: for sure, we are seeing that in many places.
Speaker 2: Does it matter to you know, to you being the
Speaker 2: largest sovereign wealth fund in the world, does it gives
Speaker 2: you more access, for example, and political cloud to invest
Speaker 2: in places?
Speaker 4: No, we would not have political cloud.
Speaker 3: It's very important that the fund remains not political and
Speaker 3: so we are very very careful staring that balance.
Speaker 1: But do you see it as a force for good?
Speaker 3: I wouldn't say the fund is a force for good,
Speaker 3: but we are trying to care about the important things
Speaker 3: when it comes to future returns for the fund.
Speaker 2: Coming up, Nikolay Tangen on his love for learning and
Speaker 2: why combining knowledge is key to innovation. Nikolai tang Again
Speaker 2: has been in charge of Norway's sovereign wealth fund since
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, but the former hedge fund manager turned podcast
Speaker 2: host and philanthropist has other passions. Tangan owns the biggest
Speaker 2: private collection of Nordic Modernist.
Speaker 1: Art and even took.
Speaker 2: A career break to study art history. I continue the conversation.
Speaker 2: You love also going back to school and you know,
Speaker 2: learning about leadership, what drives you.
Speaker 3: I just love learning, right, I think we just need
Speaker 3: to learn otherwise, what's the point. So you'd go back
Speaker 3: to school. I've been back to school a few times.
Speaker 3: I did a degree when I was thirty six in
Speaker 3: art history. I did one in social psychology when I
Speaker 3: was you know, fifty.
Speaker 4: I'd love to go back to school. What would you
Speaker 4: study this time?
Speaker 3: So many cool things. I think anthropology will be quite fun.
Speaker 3: We're fun to study music looked so many things worry
Speaker 3: about though. I mean, you seem very optimistic by nature.
Speaker 3: You love your job, but it also feels like the
Speaker 3: world is being tested. What do people need to study
Speaker 3: today to make sure that whatever comes our way, we
Speaker 3: take the right decision. I think the more, in my mind,
Speaker 3: the more different type of things you know, the better
Speaker 3: it is.
Speaker 4: I personally value.
Speaker 3: I'd rather have several miles degrees than want pH D,
Speaker 3: for instance, because I think the way you combine knowledge,
Speaker 3: that's how you create innovation, That's how you create new solutions.
Speaker 3: I think that's really interesting. It the more different type
Speaker 3: of these type of languages you know, the more you
Speaker 3: can communicate with various types of people in the organization.
Speaker 4: And I think it's really valuable.
Speaker 2: Because of what that makes you understand investment better because
Speaker 2: everything's connected, or it's just enriching your mind.
Speaker 4: No, you just I think you understand the world much better.
Speaker 1: Is there an investor you admire?
Speaker 4: There are many good investors out there. There are many
Speaker 4: good investors out there.
Speaker 3: I think the more low term you are and the
Speaker 3: more your ability to take contra and investments, the better
Speaker 3: you the better you are, and the better returns you'll have.
Speaker 2: Is it more difficult now to make long term investments
Speaker 2: just because of everything that's been thrown at us? I mean,
Speaker 2: do you know, can you say with certainty that you
Speaker 2: know what our world looks like in ten years?
Speaker 4: Of course not. I haven't got a cure. I don't
Speaker 4: even know what the world is going to look like tomorrow.
Speaker 4: So it is sunny, So it is. It is.
Speaker 3: It is difficult to be a long term investor. It's
Speaker 3: it's difficult because for two reasons, everything moves faster. Right,
Speaker 3: So we we basically talk and walk ten percent faster
Speaker 3: than we did thirty years ago. It's incredible, right, So
Speaker 3: the whole everything we do is moving faster, and sometimes
Speaker 3: it's the most difficult thing is not to do anything okay.
Speaker 3: So to be long term means that there are periods
Speaker 3: where you don't do anything. So you come home from
Speaker 3: work and it's just like, hey, what do you do today?
Speaker 3: I did nothing? Tuesday I did nothing, Wednesday I did nothing.
Speaker 3: You have to you know your your partner is going
Speaker 3: to start to wander by Friday. What's what are you
Speaker 3: actually doing at work?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 3: So it's very complicated not to do something. And also
Speaker 3: incentive structures also is they are also often encouraging people
Speaker 3: to do something.
Speaker 4: So but the more you can, the more you can
Speaker 4: live in your old world.
Speaker 3: Do you make your own decisions independent of what other
Speaker 3: people think, the better they will be.
Speaker 2: I think I think everyone's talking about real estate at
Speaker 2: the moment, how it's going to crash again. How do
Speaker 2: you deal with if not the historia, certainly a lot
Speaker 2: of market whispers about things going wrong.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a complicated issue. You know, we have we
Speaker 3: have big real estate holdings in many of the main
Speaker 3: cities in the world. We've got nearly a thousand, you know,
Speaker 3: investments in places like New York and you know, Washington
Speaker 3: and Boston and so on, London, Paris that we probably
Speaker 3: adjusted the values down by a quarter at least, and
Speaker 3: whether they will continue down it is difficult to say.
Speaker 3: It depends on interest rates, It depends on it depends
Speaker 3: on various factors.
Speaker 1: So you get interest.
Speaker 2: Rates right, longer term and your portfolio, of course, isn't
Speaker 2: a much better place.
Speaker 1: Is that what you try and understand and focus on
Speaker 1: every day?
Speaker 3: I think I think where rates are going is it's
Speaker 3: it's very important. I'm so understanding whether returns will come.
Speaker 2: I think one of the questions you probably get asked
Speaker 2: the most is how you build a good team around you?
Speaker 1: Is that also the most difficult question to answer?
Speaker 4: No, I think that's that's pretty straightforward. You you hire them.
Speaker 4: You hire the best people you can get. You hire
Speaker 4: people who are better than yourself.
Speaker 3: You hire people who have integrity and who are long
Speaker 3: term figures, who don't jump jobs, but who've shown that
Speaker 3: they are loyal and can stay.
Speaker 4: In a job for you know, at least five years.
Speaker 3: And then you when you have clever people, you don't
Speaker 3: need to particularly manage them.
Speaker 4: You just figure out where you're going and you and
Speaker 4: you go there together. Do you make sure you have
Speaker 4: some fun?
Speaker 1: But so, what's your so if you don't have to
Speaker 1: manage them.
Speaker 2: What's your what's your kind of resondet you're there to steer.
Speaker 3: Can figure out you to kind of figure out well
Speaker 3: the direction you should go in right and encourage, encourage them,
Speaker 3: give them praise when they do good things, and make
Speaker 3: sure they thrive, make sure they are in the right position.
Speaker 3: I have seen people who have been miserable and then
Speaker 3: you you change their their job, and then they flourish
Speaker 3: and they thrive and they love it. And that's in
Speaker 3: a way one of the most fulfilling things you can
Speaker 3: do as as a manager.
Speaker 2: I think, Okay, where will you being in three years?
Speaker 2: I don't all where would you like to be in
Speaker 2: three years?
Speaker 3: So my my current job, you know, has a has
Speaker 3: a time limit. And to extend beyond that, they would
Speaker 3: I would do They would need to ask me right,
Speaker 3: and then I saw that would need to be an
Speaker 3: agreement that we.
Speaker 1: Get to together, but you'd like to stay.
Speaker 4: I have no officially on this.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. I like that.
Speaker 1: It's very c I A I can either deny, no, confirm.
Speaker 1: Thank you you beques. Thank you so much. M HM